Historically High - The Titanic

Episode Date: June 22, 2022

You know the story of the Titanic....or do you? No Leo and Kate weren't there getting busy in the back of a car and no Billy Zane didn't sneak onto a lifeboat. The real story of the lives lost that night are due to a more simple explanation. Greed and Arrogance. Join us as we discuss what went wrong, how the ship itself may not have even been the real Titanic, and why Rose is a bitch. Support the show Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Yeah. That's pretty good. Like, that's too, yeah. Well, I say that podcasts, the average lifespan for podcasts is like seven episodes. So we've already beat that down. Every episode we put out at this point is a gift. Yeah. Yeah, not only for us as friends, but for all these people you get to listen to us.

Okay. I have a question. Huh. I don't have a ton of chicken sandwich experience. Like, I'm not like, I like a chicken sandwich, but I don't eat like fast food. chicken sandwiches very much. So I'm familiar with Chick-fil-A because if I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it right. Yeah. I'll try the top tier ones. Like I'll go do a Popeyes or whatever. So I got one for McDonald's. Is the standard for a chicken sandwich, just regular chicken

sandwich, to not put like any condiment on it? Is it just the breading, like a couple pickles and then nothing? Or do some place, do you, are you supposed to put like at least some mayonnaise on it? It's like a southern thing, which obviously fried. chicken coming from the south and slavery and all that kind of stuff it was literally just a piece of fried chicken slapped on two pieces of bread and then you can do like pickles on that but it does macdonald still even have like a mcchicken or is it just their chicken sandwich it's like chicken sandwich i don't think they call it mcchicken more it's like the mcchicken was like the compressed patty i don't yeah and it was really rough this is an actual like chicken sandwich that could like like to can be

a chick player yeah i think it does that's not terrible i've had one or two but they also bone you because it's like you get the regular one for $4 that just comes with two pickles on it or you can get the smokehouse or whatever that comes with cheese on it or you can get the deluxe that's like $8 that has a piece of lettuce. I just didn't know what the protocol was because the sandwich I took a bite and I was like this thing is fucking dry. I looked on it. It's like there's literally no sauce.

No. You need something like a honey mustard to dip or something. After I bit into it, I thought it had to pull it out and spit on it like a whore. and try to lube it up. You had to self-loom your chicken sandwich. Just spit on each bite more. Oh. I like that idea.

I mean, you're a trooper. You made it out there. I feel like every time we do this now, you're going to come in with a setup on me now, and I just don't know when it's coming. No, the setup was actually that. I was going to say, hey, I know my chicken sandwich was dry, but you know what wasn't dry.

Our topic today. I saw it come a mile away. It doesn't get wetter than this. That's either... You want me to do background music while you first start to, like, lead into what it is. I just want to know, did you copy, like, a porno tagline with that? It doesn't get wetter than this? No.

I just assume it because it's underwater right now. Maybe I should have watched the movie. The girlfriend said to watch the movie, and she wanted to. I didn't... Okay. I just can't bring myself to it. Well, see, I got distracted. I actually watched the movie.

I tried to take this. in all forms of media, both sensationalized or documentaries. And all I took away from watching the movie is that the dude, Bill Paxton, he's like,

he's like the Jacques Cousteau guy. He's the one that's like diving on the wreck of the Titanic. Okay. And he's been spending his time. His time and I'm assuming like investor money and everything doing this. So they go down and they're searching for something. they think they find it in a safe

and it ends up not being there. They're looking for a diamond. Yeah. And then they find a picture in the safe and the picture is her with their boobs out. We're in the diamond. They see the dates the same day it sunk. So they're showing like it's a,

because I guess it's a big dive or something like that, like news outlets are covering the footage of it. And so the old woman who was on the Titanic when she was like 18 or 19 she was the naked one wearing the diamond contact this guy flies her out and then she's like

instead of just telling you about the diamond I'm going to sit here and tell you what happened 80 years ago is that that's really how the movie starts yes oh my god it doesn't go straight into the movie it like has to set it up so then it like takes her back okay long story short

she has the diamond the entire time she even has it as an old one So how did he find it in the safe? He didn't find it. He found the picture of her with it? Yes, and he was still trying to find out, hey, you were wearing it, obviously, the night at sank. Did you leave it in another room or someplace else that he could search in the wreck?

So at the end of the movie, you find out this old bitch is carrying this thing with her the whole time. She goes to the back of this dude's ship, like a research ship, and she stands on the back rail, which is a callback to something she did earlier in the movie when she was younger. And she fucking drops this thing in the water. And I think she does it in front of him. I think, like, he runs out and he's like, oh, my God. And she's holding it.

And then... He should have just kicked her in. He should have just kicked her all the rail. Go get it, for how much this thing was worth, yeah. And I know the water is freezing-ass cold, but, like, at what point do you make the decision and try to, like, dive? If you follow that thing in and try to get it in, then they call, can you survive there for a couple minutes while they get you back in? She did it once. No, she didn't have to survive in the water.

She just went straight from ship to door? No, she got into the water, but like she didn't have the... She only survived because of the exposure. I'm trying to think. This is such a bad movie. I know. Leona Haprio gets her up on the door. They were in the water.

And then she gets up there, she's wearing a life jacket. So she gets the door and the life jacket. Keep in mind this. He doesn't even have a life jacket. Gets her up on. on the door, and then, like, they try one time to get him on the door, and it kind of goes down. But, like, you see how much door comes up in the back, and there would be enough if both them spread out.

So, is the Bill Paxton character, like, the actual guy that found the wreck in 1985? No, he's just like a... It's after 1985. It's probably James Cameron trying to be himself. Oh, okay. Bill Paxton playing James Cameron in the movie. I'm the dude that's playing the dude. Exactly.

Anyway, the actual Titanic. pretty much everyone assuming is familiar with kind of the nuts and bold story or I guess the Cliff Notes version of it hit an iceberg it sank a bunch of people died

the only had enough light boats for half I didn't realize that we were good enough to like chart courses for different trips and like new latitude and longitude back then but somehow they couldn't find the wreck until

1985 the Titanic was underwater all that time since 1912. They didn't find the wreckage until 1985. Okay, but how much that was determined by the... It's like two miles underwater. We had submarines.

But you couldn't... You could never confirm it as that. It could have been... There are a lot of shipwrecks that are underwater, but you have to know, like, the general area that it sucked in. You do, but if you're really thinking that that's using a... Like, a shipping lane, probably. Because, like, they stayed a shipping lane

because that's how they radio ahead and tell them icebergs in the water, we passed him at this point, so they kind of stay within the same shipping lane. With that, that was probably used at some point, like in World War 1, in World War II, all that shit gets sunk, and plus

like a submarine, I'm talking about a military submarine, because they're not looking for wrecks on the bottom. I would assume just literally anything. Like, the fact that we had divers back then that wore like those big metal helmets and got fed oxygen and stuff, how do you not know where it is. Here's the other thing too. Before the Titanic was actually found and it started

building up steam and getting famous and everything in 85, who was actually looking for it? A lot of people. There actually were a lot of people looking more, or was it one of those things where there were just a few universities like providing grant research grants and stuff? There have been a lot of different like theories and plans. And one of the first ones was this dude, I read he was from Denver and they posted it. it in the newspaper. His idea was to take a submarine and take big electromagnets

and find it underneath the water, drop the electromagnets down, connect him to the side of the hole and everything, and then start winching it up from the submarine and drag it a little further and then pick it up, drag it a little further and a little further and a little further, which seemed like it would have been smart

except for two things. He didn't own a submarine and we didn't have that great of technology. Hold on. What? That makes no, why would you keep lifting it and moving a little further? Because as you lift it up out of the water and it gets shallower and shallower, it gets heavier and heavier. This thing was under two miles. Like, where did they think they were going to bring it up at? You've seen the ping pong ball idea, right?

Okay. I have no idea. I'm just trying to make it. You didn't look and see how all these people have been trying to bring it up? No, man. Oh, God. That, for me to even count these ideas, has to be something like plausible.

Okay. They were going to fill it full of ping pong balls. Ping pong balls are buoyant and it would lift itself up. It's not like it has a big fucking hole in the side of it. These are not practical ideas. Did you just study non-practical shit like any and all ideas? What's a practical idea to raise a ship? I don't even know if that was a practical idea to even raise it because they had to go down,

determine what condition was in. It's not in like, it's a decent condition for how far it fell. Two pieces. Yeah, but like it's a practical idea. not in like the back half of the first piece is like collapsed down because it had no structural and the front of it's kind of collapsed down so even if you tried to lift it the decay first of all underwater and then also just not being on to lift it from a structurally like probably um strong point the thing would never I don't think the thing could ever be brought up well supposedly

it's kind of be gone by 2030 that's probably not surprising there's a it's some kind of a like microorganism that's eating away at the steel at the bottom of the ocean, which is pretty sweet to think that nature is trying to heal itself from some big gigantic ship. We'll think how much shit's down there that's made of steel. True. So, like, that's, yeah. Which also one of the, I don't know if you would call it reasons that the Titanic probably failed. Because there's an organism in the sea that eats steel?

No, because this was like right at the turn when they stopped making shit. ships out of iron and started making them out of steel. So something that has a little bit more, it's just like a more condensed, a finer, I know the words. I just. Okay, so iron's not stronger than steel, though. The reason they were switched is because steel is made from two different alloys. You add carbon into iron in order to make it stronger.

And it is stronger. So there would be, but that's the thing, is if you're trying to get it, like if the ship was still made of iron beforehand, would it have survived? I think if it had been welded instead of riveted like they did it Okay It would have survived because it would have been more waterproof And steel is going to be a little bit more flexible So it would have taken a beating

But all the rivets that they used were like Three quarters iron and they used like a quarter of the rivets were steel Because they had a big machine to do steel rivets But it wasn't like You couldn't move it well enough around like curvatures Okay So they use iron wristwerects. rivets in steel, which

iron is going to be a lot more brittle, so I imagine when it hit an iceberg, it would probably pop those iron rivets real quick. Yeah. Well, and the other thing, too, is that when, you know, I'm trying to think, like, what determined if they were going to

weld it or just, was it a cost thing, I wonder? Because that's what they used to do is they used to weld iron. Was that it? I, I don't know, man. I don't know enough about shit building for this. I know what happened to this one.

Welding iron makes it a lot more brittle. And if you're going to weld something and then put it in freezing cold water, it's probably not going to be great on the welds. But if you're riveting something together, there's no like solid amalgamation between the steel. So there's always going to be, unless you get it super duper tight, there's always going to be a chance that it's going to leak.

I don't have enough knowledge of metallurgy to counter anything of what you're saying right? So I just have to say, okay. Yeah, well, I mean, I'm a little bit of a metal file. Okay, so the Titanic, there's a lot of reasons why it was, you know, why it sunk and everything like that. It's not just the iceberg because most ships can hit an iceberg and survive. It's a whole bunch of different things between the manner it hit it, how the systems were designed inside the ship for like the water type bulkheads. everything like that. There's also

what we're going to cover is some theories about maybe the ship itself having already been damaged structurally. Yeah, this is our conspiracy episode. Yeah, and wasn't even the Titanic itself, but it's almost exact

replica sister ship the Olympic, which we'll get into kind of something they've said about the differences between the two ships, but how feasible it actually would have been at that time to make a switch on the ships. And why it be possible that it happened. So the Titanic,

basically the white star line that owned the Titanic, I know that the reason that they built the Titanic and then the Britannic, or no, the Titanic the Olympic, and then coming was the Britannic, which was supposed to be like the best one of them all, right?

It was supposed to be their, like, you build the first two, you figure it out, and they figured some things out from building the Olympic to go and the Titanic like hey because they were building it at the same time the Olympic and the Titanic were being built one was a little bit behind the other so it would have been the Titanic a little bit

the Olympic I believe was started three years before the Titanic because it took them a while to get them built okay and at this point I think it's transatlantic travel and everything was getting to be a little bit more common

and there were companies that could actually do it faster the big thing with the white star line is they were going to make sure that they did it in the most grand way and essentially comfortable and like luxurious way. There were transport ships before obviously from, I mean, going all the way back to the Mayflower that brought people back and forth, but they wanted to do it a faster because obviously a faster turnaround, you're going to have a lot of people that want to do that because you don't want to spent two weeks out on the ocean

and a ship. Well, not only that from a passenger standpoint, but from being able to go ahead and get somebody instead of in 14 days doing, I don't know if it takes 14 days, I'm just saying completely. If like it was either two weeks or 10 days, that's more trips that you can do overall within a year and get more money out of your ship

for tickets. I want to say, they said the Mayflower took around like four weeks and then kind of mid-1850s it was about two weeks. By the time the Titanic rolled around... Wait, the Mayflower was how long?

About four weeks. So, a month at sea at least. Okay. That you were going to be out there. And what was the one after that, you said? It was around the 1850s. I don't remember what the ship was called, but they clocked it at about two weeks. So they cut the time in half, which... Okay, gotcha. Okay. That's pretty good. And

they had had it cut down. The Titanic's route was supposed to take, I believe it was 137 hours, so about five days. to get all the way across, which a five-day trip across the ocean, I don't know what it is now, but that's pretty quick, I would think. If you're going on business, I would assume, yeah,

but most, you know, cruises are probably trying to take their time for passengers. Well, we move from the necessity to travel places to the relaxation. It's pretty good for fun. Yeah. So Titanic was ordered September 17, 1908. weighed over 46,000 tons. It was 882 feet and 175 feet tall.

It had a 26 mile per hour cruising speed, or is that max speed? That's the max. It was supposed to go around 24 miles an hour cruising speed, which also could have played a factor in what we're going to get into with the crash. So, I'm going to keep going back to this movie just for reference. I don't know. You have no idea what I'm talking about because they haven't seen it. It shows when they get it out on the open ocean, the captain's like, let's go ahead and stretch its legs.

And it shows them changing the engine speed. But then it also gives you like the thing that you didn't think about at the time with, sorry. The thing you wouldn't think about at the time was, oh, how are they getting that to go faster? And how are they getting the ship to move? It's not just, at this point, it wasn't gas or any fuel. It was a steam powered. It was the coal furnaces. So it shows down in the engine room

And you have these huge Like pistons And you see the crankshafts moving And there's people walking between them In the engine room To like make sure that it's all still working Because this is really the first time That they were cranking around for sea trials

Yeah they didn't It was the first actual voyage With a ton of passengers And it all weighted down and everything Well and their test on this It was only like 12 hours in the water Which that doesn't seem like a whole lot If you're going five days across the ocean

Maybe test it out for the amount of time it's going to be out there? No kidding. Yeah, on one voyage. Like, make sure it can last at least one voyage. Yeah, maybe sail it across once and sail it back. Be like, yeah, I think we're good. Well, then what it shows is it shows you how the pistons are being driven by the steam. And it shows this, the engine, not the engine room, the, like, coal fire room. And it's just coal furnaces on each side. People running in between people with wheel barrels full of coal and dumping them in front of these furnaces and then guys just taking shovels and loading them into like alternating slats how do you how is that a fucking job you would do anything back then i know you would but like

you are literally sitting there like how long was your shift to shovel coal like a eight hour shift probably okay and then you go sleep in the very bottom of the fucking boat somewhere you don't go to first class no so you're going to just try to maybe eat something in sleep but you're breathing in the fucking coal fumes and all this shit the entire time. Yeah. Was it like, like how many, hey, how long has Bob been working? Oh man, Bob's been here forever. He's been here for four years.

Like what I mean? Like, yeah, most people like die after a year and a half. Well, that, I think maybe one thing that helped him out was the fact that it was only supposed to be a five-day voyage. So hopefully you had like the weekend off to recuperate. Fuck that. Also, you have to think, are those saying, guys that are doing the shoveling, the guys that are loading it up to go back with coal?

Because not only loading the provisions and everything for all the people, but you have to load fuel. Yeah, you do, but I'm assuming that like if that thing's in port, especially after it's at least first initial voyage, it's there for a week or two to resupply and plant its next leg or whatever it has to do. Unfortunately, we didn't figure out when it was going back because it never made it. Unnecessary. How many of those people that died, though,

were the people that worked on the ship. Fuck, I, damn it, I should look that up what the difference is. Would have been between staff of this ship because those guys down there, either work in the engine room, working housekeeping, waiters, wait staff. I probably already said the guys in the coal fire room. It just, okay, so we had 2,229 passengers and crew, 325 first class, 285.

second class, 706 third class passengers, 913 crew, 713 survived. That's not 713 of that 913 crew. That's the total amount of passengers that survived, right? 220 is what they think

survived out of the crew. So not great. What, that's less than 33%. So if they're saying 212, that basically means that at least 500 for regular people. survive, which I'm guessing out of those first class passengers, I think a healthy amount of those would have been in that. I would guess.

Definitely second class, a couple of smattering. Third class, you're probably getting, yeah. Well, and you're at the bottom of the boat. So I would think that you were probably the first one to be like, oh shit, we hit an iceberg, but you're the last people to be able to get out. Well, the other thing, too, yeah. Once people started trying to get up to the deck, there was going to be too much overcrowding on the deck while they were also trying to get the.

what lifeboats? They had 20? Did they really only have 20 lifeboats? They had 20 lifeboats. They had like four that were like submersibles that they could get off. But that's... You mean like collapseable ones that they could put together? Like legitimate.

Like oh, these are in a pinch. Yeah. Like if the 20 we gave you. So that as far as the... Okay, so 1,178 people could get into those lifeboats at full capacity. But that was one of the biggest gripes is that they would literally get like, how many people could get in each lifeboat? I want to say, we could probably do the math on that, but it was like 40 or 50. They were pretty big lifeboats.

They were decently sized. But most of, that's why it's such a disparity. So it was a large capacity, something in that route or wheelhouse. But they were like letting them go with only like 20 people. Because people were either afraid of them overcrowding or like people were wanting, like, some people have. had their bags like using like sitting room. But not to mention

you had people that the, who was it, Thomas Andrews, the guy that designed it that was on the Titanic said that it was unsinkable. So I'm sure you have a lot of people that are just like well the guy said the boat's unsinkable. So even though we hit this iceberg

if this boat's unsinkable I'm not going to take my chance on a lifeboat in 28 degree water. Yeah, cool that a normal person would think that. But how does like a maritime agency think that? They know that there's no such thing as a fucking unsinkable ship. Well, if it's made a metal and you put enough holes in it, it fucking sinks. So the whole idea behind the way that they thought the Titanic was unsinkable was they had these basically like big square rooms at the front that they said were sealed off to the point to where if you did have a collision with something in the front.

They're like water type bulkheads or something. And as the ship gets ripped open and those get full, there are doors that you can close behind them that were supposed to be watertight. It's flooding. It's like compartmentalized. So it only is going to flood what has a hole in it. It can't flood the next compartment. What they didn't think of though was the fact that this was 1912 and nobody had developed anything that was like a seal that would go around it. So it's just literally a steel door that you lock against another piece of steel. So for the most part they were pretty watertight. but it can only be so watertight to the point to where it's going to continue to flood the other...

This is why you need to also watch the movie because it does give you little reasons that it sank. The bulkheads though, they only went up to the top. They didn't go all the way up to the top. So what would happen is even when those were holding water back,

even if they were leaking a little, they were holding enough water back to let it flood up and as the ship came down, it would spill over the last watertight one and just, it's like, you know, dumping water out of it. of a picture and do another picture. It just dumps over. And then as that one filled up, it just dumped over. So as the ship went down, the more watertight compartments got flooded from the top.

And again, I think that's just, like you said, they figured the ship was, was it unsinkable because of that, or they just did that because they felt that it would never... It was supposed to be the new technology to make it as safe as possible. Besides the amount of lifeboats that they had, which they didn't have that amount of lifeboats, like, just because they wanted to, they didn't need to. The amount of lifeboats back then that were required by, like, cruise ships and all this, that it still wouldn't have been enough to save everybody that was on board. They knew that there was like a portion of the

people that were on the ship that were just going to die. There was initially their plans. They did actually have 40 lifeboats. I don't want to know if it was 40 or if it was like 35. It was something around almost double, but what happened is when, and I don't know if it was Ismay or if it was the builder. Okay, I think it was Ismay. They determined that the lifeboats, there was, they were stacked like two deep instead of just one. And they figured that it made the deck look cluttered. That was the big drawback is that it made the deck look cluttered and that because of that they needed to go ahead and reduce them. or they came out and took up too much deck room.

Well, and... And the whole thing was, is he was able to go ahead and I think get that, either get that passed or get approval on that. I don't know who we had to get approval from, but because that's what it was. It was an unseekable ship. We're not even going to need the one row of lifeboats.

Like, what are we even wasting room on that for? But get rid of two. Well, would you rather survive a ship sinking or would you rather the deck not be cluttered? I mean, that's... You'd like to have more room to walk around and the thing. Absolutely. The guy making the decisions about

the number of lifeboats is getting on a lifeboat regardless of the number. He didn't care. He knows that he's got a spot on it. The whole, I was looking for your stat, it says that 62%

survival rate for the people in the first class, 41% for the second class, and 25% for the third class. There was a steep dive there. One out of every four getting out of the third class to survive. That's not a good number. No. Well, and then another reason, so a lot of this stuff started coming back to me that I'd watch some Titanic documentaries like years and years ago.

Just do my son on the history channel or discoverer or something. And they'll do like the computer like simulation. They'll show you what occurred. They said if the ship wouldn't have turned as much as it did or if it would have just hit the iceberg straight on, it would have survived because the speed at which it was going, it would have only damaged. mentioned like three compartments in the front. Mm-hmm. And then at that point, those ones can be sealed up because there's not enough flooding to start bringing the boat down. They could have filled the back a little bit.

Well, no, it wouldn't have even done that. It wouldn't have held enough water to even bring it down. They wouldn't have a counter ballast. What happened, though, because it hit the iceberg and glanced along it, but it was hitting it. What it did, I think they said it punctured. It was basically just puncturing and popping, like you were saying, the plates and the rivets and everything.

but it went down for like something between like eight to like ten or twelve different compartments down so instead of staying straight on and just taking out three compartments you then had water leaking into like 10 or 12 compartments all the way down and that's what started to go ahead and bring the front of it down and allowing the water to come over the bulkheads well it's basically like a can opener you have a big steel can out there and when you run it along the side it's just going to shear everything open yeah well think of how fucking and much an iceberg must weigh for the ice there

when it hits, for that thing not to even move. Like they weigh so much because they're so huge that the force of it is able to even like blunted ice is able to go ahead and penetrate like steel or break steel apart. Not only that, I think they said

that the iceberg that they hit was as tall as the actual ship that was sticking out of the water. But the part that you could see was something like 8 to 10% of the actual how big the iceberg was underwater. So it's not like hitting a piece of ice in a glass

or something in it moving. It's something that weighs probably the exact same, if not more, that a boat's just running into. It's like hitting a wall. Oh, I'm willing to say the amount that's on top of the water weighs more than the boat that was hitting it. It's a chance.

It's comparatively that size, that shift to that iceberg. I don't think even if it would hit it head on that it would have like really moved that iceberg at all. Probably now I do wonder if well since it glanced off like if the iceberg didn't move a whole lot after contact like if it just moved a couple feet

or if it just stayed in the same place. It was just like ah! It's just like oh what's that? So some kind of fun things that I wrote down about the boat. The boat was it was pretty sweet. For a liner back,

in the day, the amount of different things that it had was actually very cool. Tickets back then, the prices for a first class suite would be $4,350, which in today's money is $75,78. Back then, it was $4,300? Yeah. Back in, what, 1912? Yes. Jesus. But which I'll get into kind of the suites and what they had, because they were pretty cool. And for a five-day trip. Again, watch the movie. you get to see them. They have their own like parlors and like, uh, like terraces and everything. Look, I'm, I'm sure James Cameron tried to get it fairly accurate. But I just, unless he went back and looked at the plans to do it, which he could have. The difference between me and you right now. I'm in my head and I'm imagining what it looks like in there.

You're just sitting there trying to imagine shit. Well, I'll paint the picture. Um, a first class birth, which was basically like a room instead of a suite, just something that you could live in. $150. So you're going from a $4,300 suite to $150 first class ber. The suites were huge from what I've seen. Today's price is $2,600. So definitely a little bit different variants.

Second class back then was a $60 ticket, which would be about $1,04 today. To get that far across the country, I mean, five days, probably not terrible. And then third class, $15,000. to $40 depending on if you were a single man, if you were a family, anything like that, which would have been $261. See, here's what's upsetting about this. If these numbers are correct,

that means that Billy Zane, who's like the bad guy in the movie, who's like Rose's fiancé, originally, he had one of those sweets. He dropped $77,000. How much was it? Like $77,000? Yeah, $75,000 today.

$4,300 then. And it was her and her mom. Apparently that was a thing. Like if the mom just went everywhere with the, I don't know. You got a chaperone. Were they married? They were engaged. Oh, okay.

And he gives her this big ass fucking diamond. Like, I'm sorry. I know that Billy Zane ends up being an asshole in this movie. But he also didn't bang Leonardo Caprio in the movie. and Rose did So I mean He didn't even get the full experience No

That's I like hearing about this movie And not seeing it Because you're using their actual names Instead of the character names So I know Like I can get a picture of who you're talking about Like I can see Billy Zane

Is like a stately fella That's dressed back in Those kind of clothes Um A standard first class cabin Was a state room That was predominantly Either single double or triple

birth, so single double, triple beds. Contained a dressing table, a horsehair sofa, a wardrobe, a marble-topped, wash stand with a basin. Double-bursts had tipped wash basins on their shelves that folded back into the cabinet to save room. A lot of

the additional bunks were suspended over the main bed so you could put a bed next to the wall. Single birth rooms on A deck were decorated more modestly than the lavish period suites on B and C. I'm also assuming they had to have had like some maybe not just like first class cabins but like i'm pretty sure you have like your high roller like two or three or four of your like high roller cabins that's when you get

into the suites okay and it says many of the suites or many of these state rooms have private entrances separate servants quarters so your servants weren't serving thank god they were not to be seen yep adjoining rooms ward road room wardrobe rooms in suite bathrooms um um and you could be booked in groups to accommodate like families and if you had servants and different things like that, they traveled with you. All the suites were decorated lavishly in the style of different historical periods

between the deluxe parlor suites, promenade suites, because they each contained a private promenade deck that was 50 feet in length. Yes. Each one of these suites had a 50-foot deck in it. That's where Billy Zane enjoys his champagne. Is he just out on the balcony or whatever? The promenade deck connected,

The first-class gangway entrances immediately forward, enabling copious amounts of luggage, typically carried by the richest passengers to be loaded directly into their suites. Of course, you don't want a whole bunch of different poor people touching your bags. No, you don't want the riffraff. I just want one group of poor people bringing them from the land up to my suite. You don't want bedbugs coming from those people. The parlor suites each comprised of two large bedrooms, two walk-in wardrobes, a private bathroom, a lavatory of their own.

Thank you. They don't have to shit. Shit. The group peasant toilets. Wait till I get down to some of the other classes because the other ones are disgusting. First class amenities that they had. They had a gym that included a punching bag, a rowing machine, exercise bikes, stationary bikes. A Jack Lane magazine.

He's fucking so only probably. Not only one, but two electric camels and an electric horse. So like something that... You're saying electric. Camel? Yeah, two of them. So I googled them because thinking that I really wanted to see what an electric camel looked like in the 19s, nah, they didn't dress it up like a camel. It was one of those things.

It doesn't look like a giant Sibbian machine. That was fucking... Not even a little like one, like a lot like one. Yeah. So it was, you just basically sat on it and it vibrated you and you held your core strength in. I'm sure that was a very popular item. Honey, the gentleman and I are going to go to the Smoky Lange, what are you going to do? I'll be in the gym, practicing for our camel writing.

There's literally just like a line of females in the gym. Thank God they're all staying in such good shape. They had Turkish baths, which awesome on a ship. We need to find a Turkish baths around here and go to because I hear that they're phenomenal. They had steam rooms, electric baths, private massage rooms, reception rooms, a lounge, a smoking lounge that only men were allowed in

because you have to have that. Of course. You got to get away from the life somehow. Keep it separate. Reading and writing rooms, a promenade deck, a grand staircase,

a swimming pool, a squash court, and a barber that was open like 12 hours a day. I'm thinking 1910, 1912, that is so much shit

to already have on a ship. Yes. And they had elevators and shit up. Yeah, that's just their first class. That's just all their stuff. Well, no,

the elevators go all the way down. Yeah. But second class accommodations. Their state rooms were still very comfortable. They had oak paneling that were painted glossy, white, linoleum floors, mahogany furniture, usually consisting of a large sofa, wardrobe, dressing table, and wash basin. Second class wash basins were known as compactacom or clock. These were basins that were folded back against the wall to drain. Can you just give me the greatest hits of these classes? Yeah. I just find it all amazing. Just to try, I get that you've seen the movie, but this is how I transport back.

You get to see, like, horrible conditions. You get to see, like, third class and first class. You don't see you second class. Well, second class, they actually, like, the water that they used was just attached to the wall. And then you had to have a servant come in and refill that, and then take all the gross water that you used off of it. How did it stay in the, like, what if you hit some waves? Like, the water's just all. It's going to splash everywhere.

So, again, this is just second class. So that's just an elevated toilet. Pretty much. So unlike first class, which offered many state rooms with private bathrooms, second class bathroom facilities were all shared. Communal lavatories and bathrooms. Not as much as third. No.

We're separated by companion ways divided by gender. A bath could be had on request to a steward and a bed linen was changed daily. So they actually did have somebody that would clean out the bathtubs in between. But second class, that's 285 people that were in second class, are all sharing bathrooms. That's gross. I know, but maybe it was like, you know, one bathroom for like five cabins or something like that. So a little less great for them. They had a promenade deck.

They had a library, smoking room, still a barber shop, and then a decent-sized dining store. It's whatever one would expect, like, a standard travel experience to be like. You can say that. You're still getting a little help. You're still seeing servants and people around. round, but at the same time, you're not... You're balling on a budget. Yeah.

Third class accommodations, this is when things started to really get rough, but somehow the White Star Line had earned a reputation that they had fairly good service for third class. And these were going to be mostly people that were probably coming over to the new world to start over to... You're just describing the movie. That's good, because you know what, there's people like me out there. Because it is. He, um, Leonardo Caprio's character,

they're like, uh, Mr. Dawson. what are the accommodations like down in steerage? And they all laugh because they think it's funny because he's poor. And he's like, best I've seen, ma'am. Hardly any rats. And then you can see her daughter's like, I'm so turned on by this guy.

Ew. I can do without that. I don't need a rom-com. One of the last things just for them before I get into the menus, because the menus, I have to do it, just being a food guy, but the menus are incredibly different.

So in contrast to first, second class, there were only two baths to serve the more than 400 steerage passengers on board at any time. Two bathrooms for that many people. Even that, you have first class, second class, and then the fact that third class is known as

steerage, that's just like a brutal sounding news. Oh, yeah. Oh, first class, second class steerage. Peasants. Yes. You might as well just call them the peasants. Fife. It's the FIFES. The below people. Uh-huh. So menus for first class. And this is all the menus that they had for one dinner. When they dove

down later on. They actually found menus that were in the dining halls for them. So, their hors d'oeuvres, consumet Olga, don't know. Cream of barley soup. Salmon, Mussolene with cucumber sauce. Then they had filet mignon.

They had chicken linnets, vegetable, some sort of a medley, lamb mint sauce, roast duckling with apples sauce, sirloin beef. In the movie? He orders lamb in. Easy on the mint sauce. Is that? Yes.

Who? Cal. But he orders for him and Rose. He's like, uh, to the lamb. Easy on the mint sauce. What a gentleman. And then he looks at it and he goes, you like lamb, right? Um, potatoes, green peas, cream carrots, boiled rice, just all this stuff.

They're eating good. Punch. Yeah. Okay. They had four different kinds of desserts. What is second class? Second class is consummate tapioca. Sounds gross.

baked tattuck, not bad. Curry, chicken, and rice coming from England. Stoll it from India, we're going to put curry in our chicken. Roast turkey. I recently had curry with chicken. It was really good. Oh, chicken curry is delicious. It's incredible.

Green peas, turnips, boiled rice, potatoes, plum pudding, wine jelly, all these different stuff. I do all that. Yeah. Third class. No, call it what it is. Things take a little less. Steeridge. Steerage dinner takes a little less.

That sells just... Steerage dinner. dinner. Rice soup, cabin biscuits, which I'm assuming I don't even want to know what a cabin biscuit is. Probably like something, remember like Hardtack? That's what

they used to send on like pirate chips. I can't think of the era that that would be in. Like the era of piracy. Hardtack. They used hard attack in the, like, World War I, World War II. Yes, but it was like the biscuits that were so hard they couldn't mold or or anything like that. And then you had to like soak them in water to get them broken up.

Just sounds like. That's just what it sounds like to me. Fresh bread, which I'm assuming was probably fresh three days before when the first class had it. Yes. Roast beef, brown gravy, sweet corn, boiled potatoes, and you had plum pudding or fruit. So you had like five options for everything, and first class had a billion options. And again, I'm guessing this isn't like, hey, we're going to cruise now. You call from your state room, and you can eat at any time or just go into someplace. I'm pretty sure that first class could probably go in it and eat whenever they want it.

Second class probably had a little bit more flexibility within a certain time window. I'm pretty sure steerage was probably like, this is what time breakfast is. If you're not up, you miss it, here's what time. Because if they're feeding 706 people, they're having to just make shit and get it served at a designated time. What are the stearge options for lunch? Gruel.

I don't know what gruel is. Gruel sandwich. Do you remember all the office? All we had was gruel. Groo sandwiches. Gruel Pudin. Prison Mike. Yes.

So the voyage was supposed to last around 2825 miles. Five and a half days, roughly. It sunk four days in. They were 1,084 miles away from their destination. That's still an insane amount. They made it very far.

That's not, to me, that number isn't even, like, ironic. Like, that's as good as sinking 2,000 miles away. Yeah, if you think someone's... Yeah, it's a thousand miles away. It's not... like we were within land, eyeshot of land.

They were, I want to say they said it was 400 miles off the point of Greenland or something like that. So they were kind of close to land. They were close enough to it that the water was still real fucking cold. 28 degrees. I can't even imagine it. 28 degrees would be so cold in water. So for a five and a half day excursion, you're going to pack 15,000 bottles of beer, 12,000 bottles of wine. which is interesting because beer goes so much quicker than wine. Yeah.

And, well, I guess depending on how big the bottles were. I'm sure beer was probably something that everybody all three classes got. Whereas the wine was probably like a first, second class deal at most. I'm still saying that's really like not a lot of beer compared to the wine. Yeah. Yeah, I guess you would have to have a lot more beer. 850 bottles of liquor. 8,000 cigars, champagne.

8,000 cigars. So when they went down in 85 and we're kind of looking around, they actually found bottles of champagne that were down there that were still good, that they rescued. And I'm not positive how much they rescued. But in 2004, there was a Chinese collector that bought six bottles, and they never even released how much he paid for them. But there was another wreck that kind of happened around the time that the last ones had sold, and they sold 11 bottles, and they were all like $100,000 each.

Jesus. So a ton of them. money. Some of the ones that they actually did pull out that they didn't auction off, they opened up to see if they were still good and they had wine connoisseurs come, said that it was still just as bubbly and just as delicious

as anything that they had drank from those years around them. So actually keeping them underwater like that preserved them perfectly enough that they didn't blow up or anything like that. Is it ironic that cork and glass two of the like, you know, I'm not saying glass was made super early

on, but two of the more like primitive materials is able to hold up more than the steel under the water yeah I think you probably could have made a glass ship back then but if you hit anything

you're sorry no I'm not for use like in that way I'm just saying it's interesting that glass if the Titanic was made of glass it wouldn't have sunk they also found a Stradivarius when they were going down there I was one of the ones

that the band was playing because I'm sure as you've seen in the movie the band played all the way up until the ship sunk that doesn't happen in the movie it doesn't it? Yes it happens okay I figured they made a big enough deal it sold at an auction for $1.4 million dollars

That seems low to me Really? How long ago did it sell? I want to say it was 2000s Hmm that still seems to have to be able to say This is the Stradabarius that was on the Titanic You would think someone would be This seems to me like a 90s number

Yeah I could see that Because I think if it's like tech time, you get some fucking tech billionaire that's like, oh yeah, I want that. I want to bang underneath that. NFTs of sold for more than the strata varies. Yeah, exactly. So the actual voyage, kind of the order of that. So is it, does it leave on the 14th April?

No, no. The 14th and 15th is when the wreckage starts to happen. I don't remember exactly when it left, but it left. 12th. Well, yeah, it would have left four days before this happened. So it would have been like the 10th, because there were four days in when the shit hit the fan. I thought it was April 12th. I keep having April 12th in my head. They could have.

Oh, I can't find my head. Okay. I just know that the sinking started, or the issues really started on the 14th. I feel like your dates are off. They could be. You know what? I think it launched on the 12th. But let's check. April 10th. The Titanic set sail on its maiden voyage.

traveling from South Hampton, England to New York City. Okay, so it was the day... Oh, yeah, because it went into the night. Okay. 1912. Maybe I'm thinking 1912, and that's what's throwing me off. It could be. Yeah, okay.

So they traveled around a little bit in England, picking up different passengers from different ports. Obviously, they weren't completely loading out of the same place. They went north, right? Yeah. So wherever it first left from, the bulk of the passengers got on, somewhere to it like in the south of England and then it went up

because I remember it went up by like Sherborg or something and that's where Molly Brown got on yeah we'll talk about her later she was awesome and then there's a lot of cool people that came from this boat and then I think they went up the coast a little bit more because what they did is the point where they left land is they

left the coast of Ireland so not in the Arctic Circle yet but up in colder water yeah Ireland or Scotland I can't remember I yeah I can't always I can never remember which was which, which size which. So four days in, everything pretty much goes according to plan. People are happy doing all that kind of stuff.

They're partying for four days at this point, or everybody down in steerage is getting excited because their opportunity to go to a new world is getting closer and closer. 9 a.m. into that... They advanced. Fourth day, yeah. Did they? In the movie. They did. I'm sure they did. I'm sure everybody was pumped about it.

It's got to be a cool, exciting thing. Like, we take travel for granted now just because it is so easy because you can jump on a plane or you can jump in a car or anything like that. 1912 cars weren't, they were around, but it wasn't like a viable form of transportation. Well, and you don't get like, imagine these people are all coming like you're saying to go ahead and kind of make a new life. So you have a bunch of people from different cultures, different places. And you got rich assholes that are taking their mistresses over to a new country.

Yes. And this is going to sound stupid. But, like, so I, I'm going to keep saying in the movie I'm good with that In the movie in steerage There's like certain areas in steerage Where like a group gathering can happen

Like people can kind of get together and everything And that's where they have like their dance and everything I kind of want to I hope that is actually real And not like the shower And not like the shower scene in The Rock Because the shower room doesn't exist

And that like really bummed me out But you would think that if you have like people excited to go over to the new country. You have a whole bunch of different cultures. Like in the movie, they go and they're dancing like to Iversh music, and they're drinking like Guinness. I don't want to poop on your parade. I just want to...

You're talking about a bunch of people that feel every movement of every wave because they're the closest ones to the water. Listen, I want to imagine... You have two bathrooms. I'm sure seasickness down there, it wasn't a pleasant smelling place. Listen, this is a crucial point in the movie

where the spoiled, rich, entitled girl sees what it's like and how much fun she can have with the lowly poor people. And she's like, I identify with these people because of my struggle that she apparently has. I just... And this is where she learns that, oh my God, the common man is fun.

I want to be poor, but I don't think she really knows what being poor is. But she's really excited about the prospect of it. Well, had she been a real person that was on the Titanic, maybe she would just talk about it. as if they did dance because these people are going to be dead very soon. Okay.

So I would like to imagine they had some happiness you know, pre-free freezing to death. I'm good with that. Okay. Thank you. So 9 a.m. is when they get the first warning of an iceberg. They know that there's ice fields out there but

there was no response from the captain who, it was Captain Edward John Smith who sailed a lot. He was like White Star Lines, like top, top guy, which is how he got this shit because he was their most reputable captain, which I don't know how because he didn't, isn't he the one that was captaining the Olympic when it got damaged? I didn't see that. Yes, he was.

Was he? Yes. Well, unfortunately, if you don't like the guy, actually probably fortunately if you do like the guy, this was supposed to be his last voyage. Of course. This was supposed to be his retirement tour, his last one to go. out on. So he couldn't even enjoy his retirement because he went down with the ship and he did go down in a pretty badass way. Tell me and I'll tell you if they did it in the movie. They did do it in the

movie because I saw something where they were talking about James. He's standing at the helm and the water as it sucks down and then the glass breaks. Yep. James Cameron said that when they shot that scene it was like 28 hours into recording and he had been up for like 36 hours. and he actually wanted to be down below when it happened. So he had to dress up in a full suit and all that stuff. And he said that he had a thought to himself that if this doesn't work because it's so over budget and so far, he's like, if this movie just isn't going to work, just kill me now.

He was willing to bargain with death at that point in case Titanic didn't turn out well. Well, lucky for him. People liked it. Yeah, I guess. Some people did. The weird thing that Smith did at this point was he did cancel a lifeboat drill, which seems like if you are hearing about icebergs and things that could potentially sink your ship, maybe do the lifeboat drill.

142 p.m., they get another warning of icebergs and field ice. Again, no response for some reason. I don't know if they were having issues with the telegraph or whatever they were using at this point. But to not respond to a ship that's giving you information seems like a bad idea. 145 they get their third one warning no response again at 550 though they did start to move south down kind of out of where they thought that the icebergs were coming it was like 41 degrees longitude

latitude whatever he dropped it down I think it was like 39 degrees so they were trying to go under in warmer water to try to avoid the icebergs but they never slowed down they still kept cruising speed all through this. There was something about them trying to make, to get in ahead of the schedule. I can see that. It's the first time around you wanted to work.

It is, and I think Ismay. So I'm going to go down real quick and just kind of name some of the people, so when we're calling them my name, we know in what capacity they are. So, real quick, the White Star Line is who owns the Titanic. The

builder is Harland and Wolf in Belfast, Ireland. Mm-hmm. And I think they were like exclusively building ships for White Starland. There was a deal. So they also built the Olympic, they built the Britannic, or they were in the process of building Britannic, but they're going to come back into play. And they had a giant portage place where they were building these.

But the Titanic and Olympic were so big that they had to actually reconfigure their construction areas to try to fit such big boats. Of course. So they were taking on a much bigger task than they ever had before. Which is insane when you think about the size of the cruise ships now compared to the Titanic, and you see the comparison, how big those shipyards must be? Because it makes Titanic look tiny. Well, the Titanic was 882 feet, and I think the longest one now is somewhere around 1,100 feet long.

I would think longer than that. So like another basic football field attached to the back of a ship. Well, and they're just thicker and taller. It's everything. They're proportionally just huge. Bruce Jew or Jay Bruce Ismay. Jay Bruce Ismay. he's actually the owner

he's oh he's also boarded the Titanic for its maiden voyage you got John Jacobaster he was a billionaire the Waldorf Astoria he was the Astoria the Astoria the Astor

he was just basically grew up with a silver spoon in his mouth he was given all the money being the fourth he's moved down out of a bunch of rich people he patented some sort of different device that was worthless he wrote a book that people said was terrible. Like the reviews that

they still give them were like, his book is so bad that the only way we could figure out how to make it better was just to stop reading it and start reading it new one. But he had money and so like because he was a trust fund type. Yeah, and then he used his money for the wall over for story, which great hotels but he didn't really ever do anything.

Violet Jessup, who I want to get into a little bit later, she was a badass. She survived three sunken ships and still spent her life. Oh, that is that. Yeah, she was on the Olympic when the Olympic ran in to the other boat. She was on the Titanic. She was on a third ship after that working in World War I that got hit by a mine that sunk as well.

And then after she retired, she took two cruises around the world after that. So she literally, like, she just could not quit trying to skirt down. She gave some time between the World War II. Yeah. And then when she did her cruises, she was like, all right, I'm going to give it another chance. If you are on three boats that sink and somebody's like, oh, how'd they die? Like, you're going to probably say the third boat.

Congestive heart failure. She just died naturally at that point. Margaret Brown, who her nickname is the Insinkable Molly Brown. She's one of the more well-known figures from the story of the Titanic. How did they portray her in the movie? Or Kathy Bates played her. Yeah, but like what? She was, you know who she was like?

She was like a 1920s version of the character she played in the office. like Southern and everything She was new money So she still had like her wit And her like sass and everything But She didn't have any big Danes That gruntled people

No she didn't feel like She didn't act like a rich person She didn't have like Ares She wasn't putting on airs or anything Yeah she was on lifeboat six And she was asking them To turn back around

To try to collect more people Yeah she saw they had a bunch of space Or she organized like some lifeboats together And The transfer of them passengers to try to get a bunch of people spread out and empty one full lifeboat because then they could take one

empty one back and rescue a whole bunch of people. When she was actually threatening the people that were rowing the boat that if they didn't turn back around she would throw them in the water and row it back herself. Whoever was in charge for the lifeboat, the officer, because they put an officer in with all of them, he actually told her that he would have her removed or

something if she didn't quiet down and try to quit causing a scene because he was trying to get them away. Oh yeah. And she ended up grabbing being an oar away from someone and threatening him with the oar and so she had him i think end up turning around her then they got with some other light boats and emptied one out to go rescue people okay um our next guy ben gugenheim was obviously you know the gugenheim name it's they have museums they have basically everything he was actually on board of his mistress

which i'm sure unfortunately for his actual wife he ended up not surviving and And the mistress did get on the boat. So the mistress survived. The husband did not. He actually, after he got her on board, she asked if he wanted to come. He said no. And him and his valet turned around, got dressed up, and gave one of the sweetest quotes for a guy that was just about to go under. He said, we've dressed up in our best and we're prepared to go down like gentlemen.

As him and his valet both walked back to the smoking room on the first class. deck and proceeded to get shit-faced and smoke the best cigars that they had on there. That's, if you're going to go out, you go out like a champ. I was going to say he had to just be aware that his chances of getting on a lifeboat, or I think we talked about this. Maybe he had some type of sense of honor or something like that about not taking a spot. But I can definitely tell you that he wasn't worried about his wife finding out he had a mistress or anything like that.

Because I don't think that was a thing back then. Is the wife was just like, oh, you're with someone else? Oh, well, okay. Yours $10 million and I'm never going to have a life better than this. Yeah, like I'm still the main wife, though, right? I'm still the one that gets to take care of. Okay, cool. Go on your cruise.

Go on your cruise. You think she was pumped because she's like, I'll do the second when you take your mistress on the first one. Isidore Strauss, who actually was the co-owner of Macy's, which is insane. Some of these people being involved with the companies there are that are still around today. And they just seem so like, you know, businesses that have always been around. J.P. Morgan

was the finance therapist. Supposed to be on the boat. He was supposed to be. And he might have caused a little bit more than we know. We'll get into that. Sir Cosmo Gordon Duff, who sounds like the biggest douchebag on the planet, supposedly him and his wife got into one of the lifeboats and they did confirm that he did pay them each one of the crew on the lifeboat.

The ones that were making the call on who gets on to the lifeboat. Supposedly, he said that he did that to try to cover, like, all the things that they lost on the boat. More than likely, it was probably, like you said, he didn't want a lot of other people on the boat and he wanted to survive, so he paid them to leave people. Don't make sure this thing's not low to the water. And not only that, he completely defied, like, the women and children first.

He wasn't going down with the ship, which I don't know I almost respect it when you're that much of an asshole I can almost respect that you're just like hey I'm worth more than you are so I'm going to save my life Thomas Andrews who was actually

the designer of the Titanic and then Lady Countess Roths yep she was one of the women that actually like they didn't have enough help in the lifeboat so she jumped on the oar and started to paddle him away

which pretty cool I mean that's to survive is one thing to say that you saved a bunch of people on the Titanic is pretty awesome. That herb was just survival instincting. You want me to help get us away from this fucking syncing shit faster to point me to the seat.

Probably saving yourself at that point. Okay, so they're getting all these warnings of the ice field. They're either getting commands to kind of change bearing to kind of avoid. And at this point, like, I imagine,

you know, it's not like an actual, like, field of ice. It's just probably a lot of like icebergs moving in general directions. So you still have a good chance of getting through. Hitting an iceberg seems like a very unlikely thing. Well, and if you don't have a lot of commotion in the ocean out there, you're

going to see the top is going to start to freeze a little bit because 28 degrees, there will start to be some slush and shit on top of the ice that you're going to have to move through. Nothing that's ever really solid, but it's not going to be like just going through crystal water. It's not? No, because you can still break through it. If it's only six inches thick,

you're going to be able to break through an ice field. I don't think that the ocean freezes that far from land. You don't think that it starts to slush up? Have you never seen Deadliest Catch? Yes, but that's much closer to the Arctic Circle

than this was. They were past Greenland. Okay, I'm going to tell you right now. That's the Arctic Circle. I agree to disagree. I don't feel that the water could slush up at this point. All right.

What's an ice field then? An ice field is where there is a collection of, oh my God, of icebergs. Okay. Anyway. A greedy of disagree. They get a bunch of warnings about this. So who's, is Jack Phillips just the name of one of the guys?

He's probably, I don't know how to really place blame in this, but I want to say that he's one of them. So he was the guy that was running the wiring of messages. Like the, did, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, he was that guy. So 940, they get another warning. Jack Phillips never passes this along to the captain or to the bridge because they had some earlier malfunctions, and he was taking messages for literally everybody on the ship.

So he was writing down to hand off first class passengers, anybody else that was on there. He was pretty busy at that point. Take messages. The lady wants to know if her husband's on the ship with another woman. Did John bring his coat? I bet it's probably cold there. 20 minutes later, they switched the cruise,

which also is probably one of the biggest things, I think that may have sunk this ship. Hold on a second. Going back to Jack here, there's already been like three warnings. I don't want Jack to be unfairly thrown under the bus here. Yeah, should he have passed along that? But the fact that they probably didn't do anything

with the first three warnings, I'm not going to say that was the crucial moment. It's not on Jack. You didn't read ahead on the board. So in an hour and 20 minutes, we're going to get to what Jack's a real cocks of a year. God damn it. God damn it, Jack. So 10 p.m. they switched the crew.

Fellas get out of the crow's nest. New fellas get into the crow's nest. Probably one of the most unfortunate things beyond the sinking that happened to the Titanic. A guy named David Blair, who's just a token of errors, ended up getting called off to go to another ship before they left. And as he left, he didn't empty out his pockets

and had the single sole key to the cabinet that had all of the binoculars on the ship. So they had no binoculars on the ship because they had one key that this dude took. How do you not just... I don't know how you don't break it. I'm sorry, but that's bullshit. If they did have that and didn't break that

and that's the reason they didn't have binoculars, what would they think be like, you know what? The chances of us needing binoculars versus the cost of this door. Yeah. It could have been in something steel. It could have been hard to get through. break. I'm sorry.

You got guys, you got guys shoveling fucking coal. Down in the goddamn fire room, you can give them a sledgehammer and let him go to town on the fucking cabinet. Either way. No binoculars then. Fellas didn't have binoculars up in the crow's nest, so you could see

kind of far out, but as things are getting darker, it's going to be harder to see without binoculars. Getting back to the fellow you were caping for a second ago, at 11 p.m., a 6 message comes through, and Jack's response to the sixth message about the icebergs was shut up, shut up, I'm busy.

Which, bad choice of words because things are about to get real, real, real quick. I don't feel like that's a good thing to say to another ship's like, hey, this is something that's going to come by you that's going to sink you. Listen, I don't know what Jack had going on, but I'm sure he had his business. He was writing down notes about people checking for mistresses. Probably. Hey, Steve forgot his prescription pills. Can we get him to him somehow? That's not good.

1140. They made it 40 minutes after the shut up, I'm busy message for the warning bell that finally rings out that an iceberg is on its way directly in their course. Can I do it like they do in the movie? Yeah, let it fly. Okay, so he's like, Iceberg, right ahead, turn, turn!

And then, you know, they go into action and they're turning, you think it's going to miss them, and it hits. Was it a pretty sweet scene? Was it pretty dramatic, or was it dark and you couldn't see what happened? Oh, no, you can see. And it's cool because it hits the iceberg, and as it's passing, it drops, like, chunks of ice onto the deck. And then, like, later on, the ship kind of gets way past the iceberg, and then it slows to, and this actually is something that did happen. So the captain calls for all-engine stop, because they're trying to determine. And also if there's damage, moving forward through the water, forcing water then into those compartments. Bad idea.

Yeah. So they do end up slowing down. And there's like kids out on like the deck. Like fucking playing soccer with like this ice chunk that fell off the iceberg. So do you, before we keep going, do you think David Cameron's ever going to do like a remake? David Cameron? Or, wow. James Cameron.

Do you think he'll do like... Why would you not update this? Like Titanic 2? No, there is a Titanic 2. An actual ship that they're building that's the exact same. It's going to fly the exact same course. Perfect.

That's the movie right there. Yeah, but... What are the odds? It happens twice? You don't think James Cameron would do a remake of Titanic but like use today's... Fuck, no.

You don't think he would use today's technology to make it look better? No, that's a ridiculous. You're asking me a ridiculous question. Yeah, because no other... You haven't even seen the movie, and you're asking if a remake needs... Listen, watch the movie, and then you determine if a remake needs to be it. What about, like, a remastering then?

Is that a better word to use? No, it looks... It still looks good. You don't think that today's technology would make it better? A lot of the sets are practical. So the sets that it might make better aren't going to make or break the movie. CGI is not going to... It looks good. Yeah, I mean, he's never made another CGR movie, so...

This isn't fucking cats. Like, CGI is not heavily relied on in much of this movie. Oh, I feel like it could be. I don't even like James Cameron, and I don't like the fact I'm having to defend this movie. It just happens to be, watch it, don't watch it. It's just, I think, a culturally significant for the time. I saw the boobs. That's really all I needed to see.

I wish I would have seen him as a kid. That would have been nice. It feels a little bit different as an adult. The iceberg tears the starboard side wide open. So they start to... They start filling at 1215, like a CQD, which is, is it, I don't, it's, it's a distress signal that they use. It's sent. And at 1225, the Carpathia is notified.

And it is, why are you giving me kilometers? Because that's what they gave me. What's the mileage on that? That's a lot. No, because isn't a kilometer, like, it's always, is it always that above? Oh, God damn it. 57 miles Okay

Almost 58 miles Okay So 58 miles away Um The Titanic band As the ship is sinking The band continues to play And they kind of play out on the deck

Yeah they move all the instruments And everything out onto the deck I think it was like a four or five guy band Credit to them Yeah I mean everybody else is panicking Well their crew And their men

They're not getting on a ship Or they're not getting on it True They're firing distress rockets which they supposedly were supposed to have red distress rockets but they only had white distress rockets which there were other ships that were in the area like the California did report seeing

there is something there's something different between it's a different meaning between a white distress like red like red is like in need of immediate help white is I don't know if whites like because they use white ones to like light up to be able to see kind of so maybe that's for like if you get someone overboard and you're trying to locate them in the water, you would send a white distress flare.

But I did, yeah, I did read something about them not having like any red flares on board, but they did fire distress rockets. And the California saw them, but they honestly thought that, they said honestly that they thought that it was just like a fireworks display, which. It's a must luxurious ship in the world. Yeah, I guess that does make sense. I feel like it happened during the distress call and you would have had to have heard the distress call.

So, where are we at? So the first lifeboats start getting lower into the water, and they're not filled like we talked to anywhere close to capacity. Captain Smith releases the crew at like 217. They send out the last distress call. Which, to Phillips' credit, even though he said, shut up, I'm busy. He did stick around to do one last distress call at that time before he...

We'll think. see redemption good good for jack so how they how the ship actually does sink they actually do depict it in the movie it's pretty cool so the front starts going down

and what happens is as it fills it raises the back end up and because of the weight it's not supposed to support that weight so it basically snaps in half but it's still joined right at the keel okay so it's basically like barely hanging on yeah so what happens is when that does it, it breaks down and that keeps floating in the water, the back end does. The

front end keeps sinking down, but because it's holding onto it as it starts to sink, it pulls it down or pulls the back in straight up and down. The front end breaks off, and it bobs there for a little bit. Like straight up and down. They said that it was one of the craziest things that nobody's ever seen.

It's because that front half was still attached, and was pulling it, and that's where all the water was. Like an ice corner. Yeah. Weirdly enough. And then the back end bobbed, and it actually went straight down. It didn't come back and then sink. So you had people, the propellers were completely exposed

straight up to the sky, and you had people that were standing on the other side of the railing that you would normally be falling off of going straight down into the water. It's a bad feeling. So, yeah, man, what would that fear?

You know you're not on a lifeboat. You're on the back of a boat that's heading down towards the water, very quickly. Yeah. You're going to freeze your balls off once you hit that water or lady parts. There's no hope. I mean,

you're not... At what point do you think your body starts releasing, like, all the dopamine? Like, what point does your body know that you're going to die? And it starts releasing all those, like, dopamine and endorphins to try to put you in shock to, like, relax you. Probably once you... Them, probably a little bit earlier, but I would assume once you hit that ice cold water, your body's like, fuck, we're done. Do you think mentally you're able to act?

that because I can see how that being a biological response like your body's like oh we're getting ready to die we need to release this do you think you could be in a situation where like you just know like you haven't hit the water yet but you're like I'm going into this water I'm going to die and your body's just like yeah I think I believe him

I believe him start releasing the shit this all adds up let's let's get it on that's what Guggenheim is going for he he was trying to to lube up his his dopamine levels. He was going to get drunk. He was going to smoke cigars.

He wanted to do everything that he could because he knew the end was coming. I want to say there was somebody who survived, not even shit in you, in the water, had a life jacket on. He was able to survive because he was drunk and because it raised his... Because his body temperature was so low.

I swear. No, no. It was something about being able to keep him warm enough. Oh, yeah, I can see that. So I think what I want to say one guy survived doing that. Um, but there were people that, you know, well, this thing was going down. They said they had witnesses of guy, like one guy was just grabbing every life jacket off of the, um, because they had been bringing light jackets out and people weren't really putting them on. And so he just started grabbing him and throwing him over to board into the water.

So when it went down, there were stuff floating that people could try to grab onto. Yeah. Or a big fucking door that you wearing a life jacket yourself, crawl your ass up on. and the dude you supposedly love so much you're like no I'll just hang on to your hands just hold me right here tread water

what I'm going to shame but just like you with the stearge passengers I'd like to remember that those people weren't real so that never happened I want to say it was Thomas Andrews I don't think it was because I think he maybe he's survived I think Thomas Anders might have died

but he was running around throwing different objects off the ship like chairs and different things like that, just so there were things to flow on. Maybe that's who that was that I heard about. It might have been him, yeah. Again, bad research should have seen that. Don't mind me, this is completely normal. Why is the guy that said we can't sink, literally chuck and everything off?

He's trying to lighten the ship up, exactly. Oh, can we help? Yes, please do. Light the ship. He was, I believe he was the guy that was tossing some of the, like the foldable life. Yep. boats off too, which somehow there were people that did survive on those collapsed life boats. I'm sure anything that kept you out of the water gave you a little bit better chance.

Man, like I, I, you don't hear about it, but in those moments, because I don't know if you'd find somebody in that, but, you know, if you're still alive and you see a whole bunch of like dead people floating together and you're like, can I roll up on these people like, you do anything you can? Yeah, just trying to keep yourself up out of the water. but who i mean your body wouldn't even function at that point if those people are dead

you're probably near in that point to try to well and your brain's telling you things and like you say your body's just not gonna work yeah maybe that's why the drunk guy worked because he had so much alcohol in his bloodstream that his blood wouldn't freeze yeah you could see that all right

I got a pee okay and then can we nail the cons uh... the conspiracies uh yes okay we'll be back conspiracy time Which one do you want to do first? Well, so just to finally clean it up,

2.20 a.m. is when it sinks. All those people that were still in the lifeboats, 3.30 a.m. is when the Carpathia finally arrives, and 410 is when the survivors are rescued. So these people were in the water for damn near two hours. But in the lifeboats. But it's still very cold outside, you assume. It is, but comparatively to the people in the water.

Those people were dead in minutes. But even not freezing to death, there were people that they left out there for days when they would find boats where people were just frozen to death. They couldn't take the time to clean up the boats and bring the dead people on board. They just had to let them float. It was so cold. What do you think the mindset was of, you know, the people in the water, you know, they... I'm not saying they not had the easy way out in any, by any scope of the imagination,

but, you know, theirs was very quick. Oh, yeah. You're initially on a ship that everyone tells you is unsinkable. It sinks. You don't know what's going on about rescue. You have no idea. The officers maybe know something, but you're just sitting out there in the dark,

floating in the middle of the freezing cold water, probably in groups, like you probably have the lifeboats together and everything. And you're just like, is someone coming? No radio or anything like that. And then finally, maybe you see. you know, a light or something and your light and flares and trying to get attention. Oh my God.

Is that going to come our direction? Is it, it's not moving? Does that mean it's getting closer? Does that mean it's going away? Like, fuck, that'd be crazy. Yeah, you don't know if you're out there for an hour or a day. Or ever.

Yeah? Or, yeah, you're just going to die before somebody gets there. Yeah, the ship wasn't supposed to sink. Did the radios even work on the ship? Because the ship didn't work. Yeah. Yeah. Did they get a distress signal out?

Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah, the conspiracy theories, I don't know where you want to start. I want to knock out the one that I would like to believe, but it's total bullshit. It's number three. You want to start with the mummy? Yeah, let's go and start with the mummy. Now, while part of me does wish that curses were real, just because it'd be kind of fucking cool.

Yeah. Like an ancient mummy's curse. Oh, yeah. This is like just hog shit. so William Steed he brings it's not even a mummy it's like a tablet a mummy board it's basically like the front of a sarcophagus okay so he brings that and I can't remember what mummy was from or where it was found or anything but it was authentic he got it from like the museum in Cairo or something like that um so it says I can't remember which one um passenger William Steed a British editor who subscribed to the early 20th century spiritualism and it spent the past several years claiming a cursed mummy

was causing mysterious destruction and disaster in London which supposedly the guys that brought it back from Egypt like there were four people that brought it back from Egypt three of them died they did but that's because you catch shit

when you open these fucking tombs and you get sick and fucking die so as other myths about Egyptian curses and Native American burying these guys are breathing in old dead people dust and expecting not to catch anything it's fucking ridiculous

it's very true do I wish the curse existed and would it be an awesome reason. Yes. Is it plausible? No. Moving on. So on board the Titanic, Steed happily repeated his tale, the mummy's curse to other passengers. After the ship sank,

Can you imagine like two people being like on the fucking deck and being like, hey, remember the other night that guy was telling us about that fucking mummy curse? He's like, God damn it. He's telling him the story, it's like, what the fuck, dude? Why did you bring that on the boat? Yeah, no kidding. This is the maiden

voyage. It's the curse. Just start yelling. Someone starts yelling. It's the curse. So supposedly there were people that did link it to the mummy's curse. Some of the versions of the story, the mummy was actually aboard the Titanic because the British

Museum had sold it to an American who was shipping at home. The truth is the so-called unlucky mummy is still at the British Museum and no mummy was ever loaded onto the ship. So, I mean, No. It's there.

I do like the thought of it because it is something that's supernatural. And it would be funny if one of the biggest tragedies that happened was caused by literal, like a bad luck. I told you, I wish it was real. Yeah. It's not. Yeah. And at least we'd have an understanding of what happened. I mean, some of bad luck should be.

Number four, you have Jack Dawson as Jay Gatsby under conspiracy theories. That's for you. I understand that. And honestly, I've seen Titanic. I haven't sat and watched. the entire great Gatsby. Oh, Gatsby's great. See, I'll watch that if you watch Titanic.

Because you're trying to put together half of the puzzle here, and I have half, and maybe there would be some connection. It's not to do with the sinking of this ship, but we can revisit this at a later time. Well, I mean, Leo DiCaprio plays both of them, so technically Jack Dawson was Jay Gatsby. I get how you're making the connection within that cinematic universe. Okay. I think number two is the most likely, so I want to save the one person. last. Okay, so

number one. So, J.P. Morgan used the Titanic as a way to kill off this competition, which is Jacob Astor, Strauss, and Guggenheim. Which, I like it because there is a little bit of something to it, and I say I like it, I hate it,

because of the people that actually believe that this was something that happened. But I like the fact that it has some of the big aspects of a conspiracy theory. Like, J.P. Morgan did have a seat and did have a cat been booked on the Titanic. And then days before, he canceled his trip.

Yeah. So he... And then days while the ship was underway on those dates, he was seen in Paris shopping. Mm-hmm. He was out and about. He was doing a thing. They said he looked in fine health. Yep.

So he was okay. And supposedly his thought process behind this was he was killing competition, which he wasn't because Astor, Strauss, and Guggenheim did. did absolutely nothing. And at that point, if you had added up all three of their wealth, J.P. Morgan still was richer by far than everybody else that was on that boat. He was, he made more money than literally everybody on the boat. And again, J.P. Morgan owned White Star Line, correct?

Mm-hmm. Okay. He was, he didn't own it outright, but he, one of his companies was a part of the ownership group. Okay, I'll talk about this one a little bit. So, I think this ties into the, can tie into the first one. but just thinking about if someone would be capable of just getting rid of his business rivals

would be okay with like that I think it can't be real because that banked on the most high class people on that ship not having a seat on a lifeboat true it would bank on them because didn't Strauss get off Levi died, I believe. Or Isidore Strauss, not Levi Strauss.

I don't think they were related. You said Levi Strauss? Oh, is that like his nickname, Levi? It's just Strauss? Well, Levi Strauss wasn't that the guy that made Levi's? Yes. Yeah, so a different guy. I don't think they were related. Yeah, he didn't end up making it off the ship. Okay, so he died on board.

Did Guggenheim? Guggenheim died on board. He was the one that went back to the parlor and got shit-faced while it sank. And, but John Jacobaster survived or died? Died. Oh, shit. So it did work. All three of them did die.

Okay. But nothing. That still wasn't a, in planning stages, I would have thought had you, that's why I asked, because all those people were extremely wealthy and would probably be able to get onto a lifeboat. Yeah. So that's why I was surprising all of them were alive. Yeah. I could see it from that perspective.

But like you say, the chances of it happening. And how in the hell did J.P. Morgan just send them into an iceberg? Like, how do you talk to Smith? You're like, hey, this is your final voyage. can you go ahead and smoke this iceberg and die yourself? Yeah, like who do you have to get on board with that to... Literally everybody. Yes, it doesn't work.

No, not at all. But I do like the fact that it does have all like the major grab components of a conspiracy. Yeah, it gets you by the boo-boo and you're kind of thinking this is weird that he just didn't show up. One of the ones that the nuts have taken a hold of, which I find it funny just because it's one of those things where they actually look into these things. things and hope that it's true. But J.P. Morgan was a big proponent of a Federal Reserve because they needed a way. They just bailed out a bunch of different governmental agencies in America. And J.P. Morgan was in favor of starting a Federal Reserve.

They said that one of the reasons why J.P. Morgan, one of these guys dead was because Astor, Strauss, and Guggenheim all oppose the Federal Reserve. And if he could wipe them out as very rich players in America, then he would have a chance at starting the Federal Reserve. And this kind of ties back to the William Randolph-Hur's thing is keep in mind that people at this point in America are, these guys are basically congressmen. If not in name, then they have so much pull or so many people in Congress. Their political clout is second to know.

It's better than having your own party at that point. Yeah. Yeah, they have their own committees within Congress that basically vote to get stuff done for them. So, Astor and Strauss had actually never taken, basically never cared about a federal Reserve. They never taken a stance on it. And Guggenheim actually supported J.P. Morgan as somebody who wanted a Federal Reserve. Okay. So

all the Q&on folks that want to get in on the Federal Reserve and say that it's all rigged in the Deep State and all that bullshit, they can't even get their facts straight on that. So while the theory itself is complete bullshit, the fact that those three men died,

extremely, or benefited J.P. Morgan extremely positively. Yeah. Extremely positively. And like you say, Steed is more of like the fantasy, like the unlucky mummy. This has just enough logical thought in it to where it draws you into the point towards like, maybe. I'll click on that. Yeah. Not to mention...

It's only 15 minutes. I'll watch it. Not to mention the fact that you have to get everybody on board to kill them. Was it actually worth it killing 1,500 people just to kill these three? That's what I'm saying. The loss of life for that. rich people I don't think really cared a lot about people back then because I think they said that the You think that's just a only back then thing? Well, I don't think that Bill Gates is trying to kill people now.

I think back then they didn't care as much about it because they said that I think it was the Titanic was 1.5 million pounds to build back then. and in the shipyards, they had this deal where they averaged out to about for every 100,000 pounds a ship would take to build. They would call somebody like a life that was given up at that point. So you could be okay with somebody dying for every 100,000 pounds as far as the ship is being built. Oh, I got you.

So, and only eight people died while they were making the Titanic. So, I mean, they were ahead of schedule, I guess. Eight people dying during the building of something now would raise a lot of red flags and they probably wouldn't get past the first or second. I was going to say, yeah, one or two that you can't, you know, one is a horrible workplace accident, two in your, you know. Unsafe work conditions. Exactly. Eight different. And if you allowed up to 15 for death back then, people that were lower income were definitely looked at different from rich people.

But 1,500 dead people, probably not something you can get away with. No, but kind of going like what you said, kind of, backing off of the cost of the ship. So this is the one that I not only believe is most likely. I actually think I actually I think I believe

that this is more likely than not likely that this happened. I want to believe it. I just... I'll argue it since you're on offense. Okay. And I'll give you the other.

This would be good. This would be a nice little test. So what does that make me if I'm arguing for it? Does that make me the defense of the prosecution? If you're defecutive, the insurance thing, then you're in the defense.

And I'm trying to call bullshit as a prosecution. Okay. Okay. Okay. So the theory is that the Titanic and its twin sister ship, the Olympic, were switched for insurance reasons. Mm-hmm. Okay. Opening, opening arguments.

Basically, the ships had such subtle differences between the two. I think I'm going to kind of work outside in on this. Yeah. that and the lettering on the ships was only in two places the back of the ship and I think at the very front very easily easy to be changed so at a glance they would look almost exactly alike if not exactly like the Olympic and the Titanic yes so the reason that they would switch these though is the Olympic being finished before the Titanic the Olympic actually had an accident where they was determined through the fault of the Olympic it somehow collided to where a Navy ship, the USS Hawk, or not USS Hawk, the HMS Hawk. Or the HMS. HMS Hawk,

hit the back of it, and not the very back, but probably, I don't know, however many feet in, within the last three quarters of the ship, and caused really extensive damage. It had, apparently, warships also have a ram on them.

This one did, because it specifically was designed and built to take out bigger liners. Okay. So, and it was just an axe that it occurred. So the Olympic actually had to go back for repairs at the same shipyard. Yeah, so they could have repaired it where it was, but they could only repair it enough to actually go through and replace everything. They had to bring it all the way back down to Belfast. Okay. So once it got to

Belfast, it was there with the Titanic at the time. It was determined, though, that the Olympic, the impact had actually caused an issue to where the ship had developed a permanent list to port so just you know terminology list means a tilt so a tilt to the left I think like it had a lisp to the left a list well but it lisped to the left a little bit but it was a two degree list to the left there was a report that someone who'd survived the Titanic had noticed during the normal sailing of it that the ship seemed to be listing a little bit to the left.

So that's just one of the pieces of the evidence. What they determined was that because this ship had been damaged and wasn't able to be fixed unless they basically cut the ship in half and had to do some structural repair to it, they patched the ship up. They took everybody that was working at the time when the

Olympic came in, they took everybody that was working on the Titanic at that point and switched them over to the Olympic to get working on it. When the Titanic arrived, or the, I'm doing quotes I know, Titanic arrived where it was, I really should have looked up where it actually took off from Southampton. Southampton, okay. When it arrived in Southampton, they said that they were still smelling fresh paint on it, but they were saying that that was just from the parts of the ship that they were originally painting, not from repairs or anything like that. there was also the fact that the ships themselves

didn't have like any type of specific I want to say like either furniture or like dining wear or anything like that that was specific to either the Olympic or the Titanic so it was all the same they were basically indistinguishable and interchangeable and as no one had seen

the Titanic at that point even if there was something from the Olympic or anything like that any similar features no one had seen that before the Titanic to compare it to the Olympic so are you going to bring up the portholes oh one of them didn't the Olympic have 16 port holes at the very front yep the Titanic had 14 and pictures that were taken at Southampton before the launch of the Titanic showed 16 port holes yep okay thank you for helping

argue my point. Two men of the law sitting here battling it out. We've got to give each other the benefit of a doubt. I think the hardest part to believe in this is the doubt that they could get away with making a switch like this. But I think that's because people are so used to surveillance and being very up to date on information and everyone having a camera. This was a time when the only people that were working on these ships were people that worked at the docks. There was no, like, nobody monitoring anything. No.

And so all you had to do was bring in people to fix up the Olympic, get her going, get her out, and then what do you do? You pay one person to go back and paint over the name and paint the new name on it, and you do the same thing, or you make the switch at night. You get a small crew to go ahead and change them at night, the order of them. Because, I mean, you did, that was a huge undertaking, was to move a ship out, move it over. but if you get even a hundred guys, you know, the company in Belfast, what was it called again? Harlan and Wolfe.

Harlan and Wolfe. You get a crew of a hundred guys. And you're like, guys, you're getting an extra money from the boss. We're going to go and move these ships around. Get them ready to go. Well, because knowing that it's going to take so much longer for the Olympic to be repaired, if you send the Titanic out as the Olympic, you're back to making money. which is what you need to do at that point.

You're back to... I mean if you send the Olympic out, wait, what do you mean? Well, if the thought process was that you needed to switch the boats and make the Olympic the Titanic and the Titanic the Olympic, if you're closer to finishing the Titanic

than you would be to repairing the Olympic. Correct. To make the Olympic, the one that goes back out, you're at least back to making money. Gotcha, okay, yes, that makes sense. And then since the Olympic would never technically be without a huge cost would never be

not listing and having damage to it the theory which I believe is that they were switched out so if something did happen it happened to the ship that was already damaged it didn't happen to a viable asset it was already a damaged ship and so they could

claim the insurance at that point because before that insurance did not pay out they had insurance on the Olympic but because it was determined that it was the fault of the white star line Yep. The military didn't have to pay. No, and who's going to make the military pay?

The government's not going to pay for something like that. I still think they would if it was their fault. There would be lawsuits. I'm not saying, like, for the... They'd be like, oh, yeah, we're the good guys, let's pay. No, they would have to pay just basically because it was the fault of the military. Yeah, I just wouldn't expect the government to be like putting a thumb on that scale. The insurance denied the claim.

So they had to pay for the White Starlink, had to pay for all of the repairs. Yeah, I agree. So is this cross now? No, no, you sound convinced, so I think we're good. Yeah, no, I'm with you and I want to believe it because it does make the story more fun. And I don't want a torpedo the whole thing right at the beginning. So I'll go through some of the other things.

The yards that were a part of... Harlan and Wolf. Yeah, Harlan and Wolf down there where they were building these ships. The Olympic was in Yard 400. and the Titanic was in Yard 401, so they were right next to each other. And when they would send things back and forth to like the different areas where they were building, they would actually spray paint the numbers of the yards on there, so they would make sure to get the right stuff there.

Everything that was found on the Titanic was Yard 401 that they've seen, like as far as on the engines and on the propellers and everything like that. So it would have had to have gone back, sand it off all the 400 yards, numbers on the Olympic and then repainted it all 401 and supposedly this happened in a very short period of time that that would have been tough to do. The other issue where you were talking about they would have to just switch out the names because there was only Olympic on a few areas and only Titanic on a few areas. The areas where it was it was actually embossed inside the steel so they were punching it down in and then they were painting it over so you would have

had to have pounded that metal flat, reimbossed it, and then repainted it all in that time, which would have been very difficult to do. You don't think you could have gotten away with just painting over the same whole color, the embossing, and then embossing something above it or below it and painting that. Like painting it ship-colored and then re-embossing. Yeah, I mean, I suppose it's plausible. Or not embossing it, because did they know was the one down on the bottom of the ocean, and they confirmed that that one is embossed?

I don't know I haven't gone that far Yeah exactly Okay point for you The other thing that I feel like Is sort of the death nail In this one And it just strictly comes down to numbers

The repairs and everything That were going to be needed For the Olympic Were right around $7 million And the insurance policy That was on the Titanic was worth $5 million. So even if you were to collect the insurance policy on the Titanic sinking,

you're still net negative $7 million in the hole. You mean $5. If you get $5 million back, but the damages that you needed to repair were $7 million, you're still $2 million short of covering all the damages that you would have gotten to repair. And you're down to ship. Yep. So, I mean, I feel like that's kind of the one thing is it doesn't make financial,

sense to sink something that's worth less than what you need to repair the other one. And like you said... Maybe they didn't plan on it sinking, though. The Titanic? Or the Olympic as the Titanic? Sure. Maybe they were just like, you know, if we would have one of the sinks. But if it doesn't sink, you don't get the insurance.

Listen, man. We both made some good points. Okay, yeah. You know what, but it, you know. That and, not to cut you off, but. the fact that the patchwork that they would have had to have done on the Olympic to have it go that far

like why would you not just sink it like a thousand miles? Why would you wait the extra three days? Why would you not drive it a little bit out and then be like oh we had a failure and drop it in the ocean there? Here's my counter. I got one. I got one for you. The Titanic was supposed to be

this you know magnificent ship and everything so what if their plan was to have the initial Titanic You know, voyage The Olympic as the Titanic Doing the Titanic voyage

But because it was So many eyes on it They wanted that one to go through Drop off everybody And then on the way back Something would happen to it And it would sink When there wasn't as much vision

I mean because you know It's still going to be Very very visible in the media But like And there were people Probably coming back But what if it also Was a plan

For it to get back And then go back to the shipyards and then make the switch again. He'll double ship switcheroo. The double switch? Yeah. Anything is plausible. I'm not shitting on that idea.

You know what? I'm feeling, let's revisit the mummy. As much as I love conspiracy theories, which is a ton, I want something like this magnitude to be true. I want the big dupe. I just, I don't feel like it's there with this one, unfortunately. We will get to some later on down the line where I do feel like there's more valid conspiracy theories. This one just seems like it's there and there is stuff for it,

but it doesn't make enough sense when you really break it down, which I'd love to think that. I'd love to think that we just had one big ship that was one big disaster that killed 1,500 people, that there was something behind it other than just some guy smoked an iceberg that didn't get seen. and didn't hit it straight on. But I just, I don't see it there. There's other ones. Supposedly there was a coal fire,

and the coal fire that happened had weakened the structure where they took the shot from the iceberg. Are we talking along the lines? This is World Trade Center. Yeah, yeah. Jet fuel weakening steel beams? The beams.

Gotcha, okay. That one just doesn't really seem as logical either. I think I heard about that one. That one's ahead of the mummy. Yeah, I feel like it would be tough for like Steeridge people not to know that there was a giant fire below deck where they were That seems like something that they would probably figure out pretty quick What was the other one?

Potentially it was a German U-boat that shot down That fired a torpedo and hit the Titanic Which did end up happening unfortunately to the Britannic They ran over a mine during World War War I that was left that sunk them. What do you do World War I fucking ocean mine

look like? Is that the old school one with like all the prongs? It would have to be. Secured by a chain? Yeah, and it would have to float because if it's on the ocean floor, you're not going to run across that.

And then all those little arms are just a sensor. Yeah. It just presses if something hits it and it detects it. So just the ultimate bad luck of hitting that. The California, another ship that was rescued

was shot down during World War I by another submarine by a U-boat. So it seems like there was just a lot of other things that were happening to ships. There's a lot of shipwrecks out there from this time and from World War I. I don't know if any of that stuff,

I mean, it does lend to the conspiracy theories, but I just feel like this was a bad place to be at a bad time. I was, when I was watching this last night, It kind of made me think about what other, you know, this was a natural disaster. Not a natural disaster, sorry. A disaster. What do you consider caused by a natural disaster? It's a natural disaster.

It would be like an earthquake or a hurricane or something caused by nature. It hit an icebergs caused by nature. But was it the iceberg's fault or was it the boat's fault? The liner's fault. We'll just call it a disaster. Okay. So you can make it. disaster movie, but you have to make it a love story.

I don't see it that way. That's where I feel like you're wrong. That's why I don't want to see it. Here we go. I'm going to name you a few examples because I listed these in my head and we're going to see if we can think of more. Okay, so Titanic. It's a disaster. It has the love story. That's what's based on. Pompey. If this ends up at Twister. Pompeii. Yeah. That was literally, it was about Malvasuvius erupting and destroying Pompeii, but it was the love story between John Snow from Game of Thrones and whoever the chick was in it.

I can't remember. Okay. Pearl Harbor. That's a... Love story. That's a three-way love story. The new Midway movie... There's not really a love story, I guess, but there is part of it between Mandy Moore and the guy that plays Richard Best.

So still... Yeah. Still love story in there. Forrest Gump. there's not really natural disaster in that there's like every disaster around though there's historical moments but I don't think there's disasters the only disaster is like a...

You don't consider a World War a disaster? In Vietnam? Or Vietnam a disaster? Yeah but there's no real level... Forrest Gump is just so many stories on one and that's its own thing but I'm trying to think like think of like a disaster movie that's come out with a disaster based on a historical event

Twister? There's... Storm chasers? On a specific historical event. Pearl Harbor, Pompeii, Titanic. Trimmers? I don't feel like I'm living... I don't feel like I'm describing what it needs to be.

No, it's a disaster. I mean, big words. But did that ever happen? A historical event that they... Not that I can think of. San Andreas. That happened with the Rock. Yeah.

And I think there's a love story in that. I think it's between him and his ex-wife or something like that. Yeah, that's the one one. So you need to spice up a disaster to... You don't need to spice up. That's the whole point. You can't just sell on disaster alone. People are like, we want to make a movie about the Titanic.

Okay, so who's going to be fucking in this movie? And they're like, excuse me? They're like, yeah, we're going to need like too hot, young... A pit, a DiCaprio. Yeah, an upcoming star to... really sell the shit out of this, but I want it to be about the Titanic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can do your boat movie. But tell me, how do they get together? How does he get it in? I don't like that, but I can't. I have nothing to refute it. You sprung this one on me, and I don't...

Armageddon, not a historical event, but... Independence Day. Isn't it about... Yeah, he ends up getting back together, Jeff Gobloom gets back together with his like ex-wife. But not West Smith? Yes, he goes and rescues that Jasmine and her kid. Come on, man. Not even the bad ones.

Not even like, well, Ben and Black wasn't bad, but there's still a love story there. Aliens got to be the disasters, right? I feel like you're missing the historical event portion of this. I'm just thinking disasters. I know you are, but there are ones that are based on historical events. Hey, we don't know.

Independence Day could be a future historical event. They better hurt if they're going to do it because Will Smith isn't getting any younger. And he's getting real slappy. And he's getting real slappy. I'm saying people are not liking him too much right now. I don't, I still, I can't get on board of seeing it, but I just don't see how it all plays in.

Like, the fact that they did pull real people, like Molly Brown and that kind of stuff into the movie. but it just has to be a better story. I feel like this was a pretty good story that they could have made a movie about without a love story. Well, yeah, I don't know. I don't know if it would have been.

He got to cast a wide net and he made, the guy that made this made freaking dances with wolves in space with blue people. And people fucking thought it was better than this. Did dances with wolves have?

Yeah, and then thank God. Thank God Avengers came in. Love story Well and like I don't know You know I don't know how these people were in Real life But the way they portray

Ismay is he's the shitty dad from Jumanji I could see him being a shitty person Yeah Because he sent out a A ship that didn't have enough lifeboats Yeah so he's he's a douchebag Thomas Andrews is kind of

He kind of seems like this quiet guy That's just really excited about his boat He's like Rose Rose Look I put all these finishing touches and like all this shit on it. For a guy that comes out and says that it's an unsinkable ship, they didn't run with that as like the advertisement. Oh no, he's like when the ship hits,

he's like one of the first people to find like Jack and Rosen be like, you need to find a life jacket and get to a boat. And they're like, what? And he's like, oh, we're all doomed. I take back what I said. Yeah, E.J. Smith seems like a competent guy, which, again, he was the one captaining the Olympic when, got hit by that freaking military ship.

So I don't know why you give him the next new ship except maybe it was just like a happy retirement. Here's your last journey. Well, and another conspiracy theory is that he was a cross-dresser and he threw a

dress on and jumped down onto one of the lifeboats and ended up living and then had to live as like a cross-dresser for the rest of his life dressed as a woman. Which again, I don't think that that's a good conspiracy theory. It is kind of fun though. You just wrote the script to Titanic too.

It could be. You literally, there you go. Follow the adventures of the former captain Edward John Smith. I could see that. And he makes his way to Los Angeles. With a big bushy beard and a dress on. Margaret Brown obviously,

she got cool from this. I mean, that's a pretty sweet story to threaten people with an oar that you're going to beat their ass if they don't go back and get people. Yeah, she was based on how she actually was, believe. God damn it. Kathy Bates did a fantastic job.

Violet Jessup, being a lady, just a certified badass that survived that many sinking shit. I don't know why you wouldn't put. Huh. Like, with her being

that amazing story, I don't know why. Maybe I missed it in the movie, but I don't recall any point. Oh, that she was probably, she might have been a second or third class passenger,

sorry, steerage. She was a, on the Titanic, she was a member of the, crew. She was like a nurse basically, which is what she did when she went onto the ship for World War I. See, no one got hurt in the movie. Everything

was just so happy. Everyone was just drunk and having fun. They didn't know what was, they didn't know what was going to happen. No, no, I guess that's true. I guess between swimming through all the sick and the cabin biscuits down there, it just must have been a grand old time.

Man, that movie makes you cold just watching it because there's like scenes where like Jacket's arrested. and like handcuffed down in one like the lower levels and she has to go down there and it's like like boob deep water she just like wait or way through the ship and she finds like to get arrested

because the guy that's with her fiance is like his personal security or like a former cop so he has handcuffs and they go down into like a private compartment and he ends up handcuffing him all right listen these are not factual people I'm not defending that this actually happened. Well, what would you do to put someone in like what they would consider the brig?

You would handcuff them. I'd put them in one of those things that was filling up with water. They didn't know at the time that the ship was sinking. You're getting me away from my point. I'm just saying you watch a movie and you see him going through this water and you're like, oh, I need another blanket. I imagine everything is cold that far out. But, yeah, I don't know. I don't know how you can be one of the other.

of those people who's convinced to yourself that they said it was an unsinkable ship so you're not going to get on the life boat. Like, you have to have a lot of confidence in that being an unsinkable ship to know that everything is going wrong and you're saying, yeah, I'm going to hang out on board here. They said it can't sink. Why would I jump into a lifeboat

that's super cold? I can just hang it up here and listen to the band that won't quit playing. They didn't know. They didn't know. David Blair, the fellow that took the key off the boat, didn't exactly have a great end to his career after that. He actually ran a ship on the land after he got off the Titanic. So that was kind of the end of his career.

Not only did he help sink the Titanic by taking that key, but then he ran another ship. I don't blame him. Probably open the goddamn cabinet. Yeah. You have a fucking crowbar on that. Anything. Like you said, bring up one of the coal guys with a shovel.

He could fix that situation real quick. Oh. And what's so weird now is like Thinking of Cruises now No one ever thinks there's no danger I mean there is Wasn't there like one that got caught over in Italy

That ran ashore where they were on there for like 45 days Or something like that Everybody got sick Yeah but I mean COVID does that to cruise ships now Well yeah but There have been others that have run aboard And then you look at places like

Loss of life like this, I mean, though. Yeah. Like, you never think about it in the terms of like, oh, this thing might sink. No. They also have life boats for everybody, and they're like covered lifeboats and they're probably have fucking engines and... You have fishing vessels that still sink doing different things that cold and people do die from it a lot, but no big cruise ships.

I think every cruise ship probably learned from this and put on more than enough lifeboats. Because you don't want to be. the ship that sinks. You can't. There's got to be regulations. I don't know who is the entity that oversees maritime law, internet. I don't know. But there has to be a standard of shipbuilding. And I'm sure this is probably what spurred it.

This happened, and then they were like, okay, never mind, new standard. For every person you have on board, you've got to have a seat and a light boat available for that person. I can see that. Which is the most logical thing anyway to begin with. Yeah. Like, hey, what if we sink? Well, we should. probably have enough room for everybody. You know, maybe a couple extra people.

Yeah, give room for some stowaways. Don't short us. Like, yeah. Throw an extra, throw one extra and maybe two extra boats on there. You don't want to be the next ship that sinks after the Titanic happens. That's a bad luck. It's a great movie. Well, I'm glad.

We'll see if we get to it. I'd rather go back and watch Deep Throat than watch Titanic. Maybe that'll be it Maybe that'll be the order I'll watch Deep Throat Take some notes on that Then get into Titanic Less boobs

In the second one All right man You got anything else No I think we cover it pretty well I like the conspiracy theories aspect of this one I hope that We get into some more of them

I'm less certain of mine now thanks to you I want to believe it I want to believe that something crazy happened Unfortunately it just doesn't seem like it could have No it seems like it could have No, it seems like it could have happened, but the motive of banking, it's like the one about JP killing everybody. Yeah. There's no, for everything to have worked out, it doesn't, it doesn't make sense.

Had Astor Strauss and Guggenheim said no federal reserve, then things make a little bit more sense. I think it was probably, I don't know, it might be aliens or some shit. Could have been, yeah. Maybe they didn't want the federal reserve. All right, these dumb instincts, flint, eh. Me, me. All right, ladies and gentlemen, thanks for listening. Join us in next week for who knows what. Yeah, something fun or something good.

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