History That Doesn't Suck - 43: Honest Abe, the Lincoln-Douglas Debates, & John Brown’s Raid on Harpers Ferry

Episode Date: July 22, 2019

“Any man who took Lincoln for a simple-minded man would wind up with his back in a ditch.” This is the story of America on the eve of the Civil War. Kentucky-born farmboy Abraham Lincoln has an interesting early life. Between losing his mom as a child, suffering from chronic depression, and receiving little formal education, you might not think he’d become one of the youngest state legislators in Illinois, a successful lawyer, and a US Congressman. But that’s Lincoln. He’s a man who beats the odds, and he’s hoping to continue that streak as he challenges Stephen Douglas for his US Senate seat. Can he take down the “Little Giant?” It’s a political throwdown that produces one of the most famous debates in US history as the two go head-to-head in over 20 hours of back-and-forth over the future of slavery. Speaking of slavery--John Brown’s looking to start a slave rebellion across the state of Virginia and not afraid to take over a US armory to do it! It’s a full-on battle and the body count’s adding up fast … especially if we include the executions. ____ Connect with us on HTDSpodcast.com and go deep into episode bibliographies and book recommendations join discussions in our Facebook community get news and discounts from The HTDS Gazette  come see a live show get HTDS merch or become an HTDS premium member for bonus episodes and other perks. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Find us at ancienthistoryfangirl.com or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to History That Doesn't Suck. I'm your professor, Greg Jackson, and as in the classroom, my goal here is to make rigorously researched history come to life as your storyteller. Each episode is the result of laborious research with no agenda other than making the past come to life as you learn. If you'd like to help support this work, receive ad-free episodes, bonus content, and other exclusive perks, I invite you to join the HTDS membership program. Sign up for a seven-day free trial today at htdspodcast.com slash membership, or click the link in the episode notes. Welcome to History That Doesn't Suck. I'm your professor, Greg Jackson, and I'd like to tell you a story.

John Brown's situation looks grim. Hold up in a roughly 35 by 24 foot brick fire engine house with only four other healthy companions. There are literally hundreds of Virginia and Maryland militiamen, as well as armed civilians outside who want him captured, if not dead. Oh, by the way, many of those armed civilians are both pissed off and drunk. Not exactly a winning combination for would-be vigilantes wielding firearms. In short, John has a 5 versus several hundred situation. Maybe I'm just not enough of an optimist, but I trust you can see why I'm calling his situation grim. Okay, a little background.

Just over 24 hours ago, on the evening of October 16, 1859, John led his own small army of 18 men in laying siege to the town of Harper's Ferry, Virginia. Well, future West Virginia, but for now, it's still Virginia. And yes, once upon a time, there was a ferry here, but don't get caught up on that. In 1859, Harper's Ferry's claim to fame as being home to a federal armory. That's right, situated on the western side of the confluence of the Shenandoah and the Potomac, the town manufactures and stores thousands upon thousands of rifles and other military goodies for the U.S. military. This is music to John's ears because the ardent, violently opposed to slavery abolitionist is bent upon engineering a slave rebellion in Virginia. That's why he and his men came here last night, took prisoners, seized the armory and arsenal, and liberated slaves. They hoped to start a rebellion that

would rock the state of Virginia. But it's not exactly going according to plan. John's now stuck in an Indian house surrounded by hundreds of militiamen and inebriated, armed civilians who are only holding back because he has hostages. All right, now that you're caught up, back to John's crap situation. I imagine salt-and-peppered, bearded, Santa Claus-style John looking at the numerous menacing hosts

outside of the small brick building-turned-fort John looking at the numerous menacing hosts outside of the small brick building turned fort and back at those with him. His gaze drifts from the four able-bodied men Edwin Coppock, Jeremiah Anderson, Dauphin Thompson, and Shields Green to his 11 hostages. John also sees the slain corpse of his colleague, Stuart Taylor. Then there are those he's likely soon to lose. His two young 20-something sons, Oliver and Watson Brown. Both got shot in the gut earlier today. And as the night goes on, Oliver, w like a man, John instructs his baby-faced son. Not quite what you'd expect from a loving father, but John's already made peace with the idea that they'll all likely die, and whatever the outcome, he intends to meet it stoically. The night wears on, but John doesn't dare sleep. Men, are you awake? Are you ready?

He asks them again and again. I don't know if John noticed the nearly 100 U.S. Marines showing up late last night, but he knows it by morning. As day breaks, Lieutenant J.E.B. Jeb, Stuart, approaches the engine house wanting to talk. When John opens the door a crack to do so, Jeb instantly recognizes the old abolitionist from his bleeding Kansas days. The lieutenant asks him if they're willing to surrender. John's game, but only if they can go free. Ah, and that won't do. The U.S. military can't exactly let someone who's taken over a federal armory and caused a number of deaths to walk off scot-free.

That being the case, John declines Jeb's request. All right then, it'll be a fight. Jeb signals by waving his hat, and Lieutenant Israel Green's dozen Marines charge at the engine house using sledgehammers as makeshift battering rams. The abolitionist fighters respond with rifle fire. Lewis Washington, a great nephew of George Washington and hostage, tells us that John remains, quote, the coolest and firmest man I ever saw in defying danger and death. With one son dead by his

side and another shot through, he felt the pulse of his dying son with one hand and held his rifle with the other, and commanded his men with the utmost composure, encouraging them to be firm and to sell their lives as dearly as they could. We'll swing back and find out what happens to John and his crew, but first, we have something big to do today. It's time to meet the Illinois Rail Splitter, the great emancipator, the one and only, Abraham Lincoln. Given the massive role he's going to play in the episodes to come, a full-on bio from Dirt Floor Cabin to 1858 is called for, so that's what we'll do. But we'll leave him in 1858, because today we're only going up through his historic debates with Senator Stephen Douglas.

Now, heads up, these slavery-focused debates are going to give you a real and unedited look at racial attitudes in mid-19th century, pre-Civil War America. Honestly, this is going to get a little uncomfortable, so be prepared. Once we get through those debates though, it'll be time to get back to John Brown. We'll head with him to the engine house at Harper's Ferry, and then we'll see where this goes. So let's do this. Time to meet Lincoln, and that means heading back to 1809. Ready? Rewind. Located near the still-developing hamlet of Hodgenville, Kentucky, Sinking Spring Farm's sole amenity is a crude, one-room log cabin measuring roughly 16 by 18 feet with a dirt floor. The land itself isn't all that great either. It's also barren and incredibly

difficult to farm. It's in this harsh environment that the young Lincoln family, Thomas, Nancy, and their little daughter Sarah, welcome a fourth into their clan as Nancy gives birth on February 12, 1809. They name the boy after his grandfather, Abraham Lincoln. Lincoln, which is what we'll call him except when we want to make a friendly tease since he hates his childhood nickname, Abe, won't remember this place. While you might be thinking Sinking Spring Farm sounds charming and wondering if you can Airbnb it, and sorry you can't, his family moves to another farm around nearby Knob Creek in 1811. Here, Nancy gives birth to another son, Thomas Jr., but he unfortunately dies as an infant. The grieving, loving mother continues to care for Sarah and Lincoln through the heartbreak. She isn't educated. Lincoln will

later describe his parents as being of undistinguished families, and his father as having grown up literally without education. But Nancy still values schooling, so the kids attend a lacking but better than nothing rural school and pick up their ABCs. Lincoln is truly fond of his mother. It's a shame she won't be with him much longer. In searching for better soil and happy to leave a state that practices slavery, anti-slavery Thomas moves his family to a farm near Little Pigeon Creek in Indiana. Unfortunately, the milk sickness hits their backwoods community hard. Nancy and other relatives are among the poisonous milk's victims in late 1818.

Her death crushes little nine-year-old Lincoln and brings more changes to their home. Deceased Nancy's cousin, Dennis Hanks, moves in. Meanwhile, the demands of frontier life press Lincoln's father, Thomas, to look for another wife. He marries widow Sarah Bush Johnston the following year. While no one could fill the place of his mother in Lincoln's young, tender heart, the future great emancipator bonds with his new stepmother. Not to be confused with Lincoln's sister, Sarah is a saint. She loves Thomas' children every bit as much as her own three from her first marriage. Emotionally starved Lincoln even refers to her as mama. She also gets her new husband to make the cabin more livable by, you know, adding a real floor.

And a window. But more important for our purposes than Sarah's ability to create a harmonious household that makes the Brady Bunch look dysfunctional is how she nurtures Lincoln's appetite for learning. The future statesman gets a very basic education here in the backwoods of Indiana. To quote him, no qualification was ever acquired of a teacher beyond reading, writing, and ciphering arithmetic. To the rule of three, if a straggler supposed to understand Latin happened to sojourn in the neighborhood, he was looked upon as a wizard. Close quote. So it's not the most intellectual crowd out here,

but Lincoln's getting the basics. And while stepmom Sarah isn't literate herself, she has some books and gladly encourages Lincoln to read. Lacking the luxury of breadth, the youth reads for depth. The titles include, among others, The Bible, The Pilgrim's Progress, Aesop's Fables, The Autobiography of Benjamin Franklin, and Parson Weems' Life of George Washington. Thomas supports his son's learning, but also thinks him lazy as Lincoln pours over the prose, memorizing anything of interest. But not Sarah. She gets him. Abe was the best boy I ever saw, she'll later say. Entering his teenage years, joking, pranking, ever-growing Lincoln, he's 6'2

by 16 years old, takes all sorts of odd jobs. He builds fences, chops wood, runs a ferry. In 1828, Lincoln and Allen Gentry pilot a cargo-laden flatboat for Allen's father down to New Orleans. A group of black men try and fail to rob them one night, but otherwise, their trip on the Mississippi is less eventful than that of the yet-to-be-created fictional characters of Huckleberry Finn and Jim. It is possible, though, that, like Hux, Lincoln's adventure deepens his already budding distaste for slavery as he sees the odious practice on a large scale for the first time. Neither boy makes a record of their time in the Big Easy, but given Lincoln's, quote,

continual torment, close quote, upon seeing a dozen or so shackled slaves on the Ohio River a few years later, it's a fair if unprovable conjecture. At any rate, upon returning home, Lincoln dutifully does as the law requires a man under 21. He hands his wages over to his father. The Lincolns move out of state yet again in 1830, this time to Macon County, Illinois. By this point, Lincoln is far closer to his stepmother than his father. It isn't that Thomas is hard or mean, far from it, but the farming father and bookish son are simply too different. Having to forfeit hard-earned wages to his pop might not be helping the situation either. Either way, Lincoln, who's feeling less of a tie to his family since his

sister Sarah died, is ready to strike out on his own. Six-foot-four Lincoln settles in New Salem, Illinois, almost by accident. In April 1831, he's just starting to guide a Lincoln settles in New Salem, Illinois, almost by accident. In April 1831, he's just starting to guide a flatboat out of New Salem when it gets stuck in a mill dam in the river. Villagers come out to gawk as the lanky but powerful river pilot works to save the craft and its precious New Orleans-bound cargo from sinking. Ingeniously, he lightens the stern, weighs the bow, and is able to free the flatboat. It's incredible! Had this happened in the 21st century,

everyone would have recorded it on their phones and posted it all over social media. Hashtag viral, hashtag boat life. Anyhow, Denton Offutt, the man who hired Lincoln, his stepbrother John Johnston, and cousin Dennis Hanks to pilot this boat, is blown away. He tells the young genius he wants to hire him to run a new store he's opening here in New Salem. Well, hell yeah. Lincoln, or this piece of driftwood, as Lincoln calls himself, is stoked. He looks forward to the gig when he gets back from New Orleans in July. Denton doesn't get this store up and running until September, but that's fine. New Salem loves Lincoln. He makes the small village his home for the next six years.

During this time, Lincoln works for a bit as Denton's clerk, fills various other odd jobs, like splitting rails, wins over the rough-and-tumble Clary's Grove Boys by wrestling a closely contested match with their leader, Jack Armstrong, and the future statesman even joins a debate society and borrows books, continuing to self-educate. War breaks out in 1832 when the Sauk and Fox Indians try to return to their Illinois homeland under the leadership of Blackhawk, hence the conflict's name, the Blackhawk War, and Lincoln is elected a captain. While honored with the election, he has no problem joking about never seeing action when

later serving as a U.S. congressman. To quote him, Mr. Speaker, did you know I was a military hero? I had a good many bloody battles with the mosquitoes. Close quote. When he gets back from the war, Lincoln opens a general store with William Barry. They take heavy loans to do so, and it's a terrible decision. The store soon goes belly up, so Lincoln finds work as New Salem's postmaster and as a surveyor. But the debt's still there. Worse yet, his partner William dies in January 1835. Broke and legally responsible for half of the debt, what does Lincoln do? He pays all of it, including William's, jokingly referring to it

as his, quote, national debt, close quote. It's actions like this that build his reputation and land him the nickname Honest Abe. But let's not get ahead of ourselves. Lincoln has so much going on at once. While a captain in the Black Hawk War in 1832, the 23-year-old also ran for the state legislature. He gets 277 of New Salem's 300 votes, but lacking funds and connections beyond his own hometown, he still doesn't win a seat. Lincoln would later observe that this was, quote, the only time I ever have been beaten by the people. Close quote. Now, I don't mean he never loses another election, foreshadowing, but it's true.

This is the only time he'll lose a popular vote. The Whig-affiliated Henry Clay fanboy runs again and wins only two years later in 1834 and will win re-election to Illinois' lower house three more consecutive times. As a state legislator, Lincoln pushes for infrastructural improvements like roads and canals. He also makes some of his first public statements against slavery and becomes a party leader. Lincoln numbers among the Long Nine, that is, the nine Sangamon County Whig legislators who are at least six foot tall. This group's united efforts in 1837 moved the state capital from Vandalia to Springfield. But making law isn't enough for Lincoln. He wants to

practice it too. The autodidactic hits the books and gains a law license in the fall of 1836. In 1837, he relocates to Springfield to become junior partner to his war buddy, fellow Whig, and political ally, John T. Stewart. This is when Lincoln shares a room in bed with his best friend and fellow Kentucky native, Joshua Speed, and some modern scholars have debated what this means about Lincoln's sexuality. Many historians remain unconvinced, though, that the Great Emancipator is gay because of how common such sleeping arrangements are in the 19th century. As eminent Harvard professor and Lincoln scholar David Herbert Donald put it in his biography, quote, For nearly four years, Lincoln and Speed shared a double bed and their most private thoughts in the room above Speed's door. No one thought that

there was anything irregular or unusual about the arrangement. It was rare for a single man to have a private room, and it was customary for two or more to sleep in the same bed. Years later, when Lincoln was a well-known lawyer, he and the other attorneys traveling the judicial circuit regularly shared beds. Only Judge David Davis was allowed to sleep alone, not because of his dignified position, but because he weighed over 300 pounds. Much of the time when Lincoln and Speed were sharing a bed, young William H. Herndon slept in the same room, as did Charles R. Hearst. So, are Lincoln and Joshua just buddies, bromancing it up? Probably. There are other aspects and points in Lincoln's life that raise questions about his sexuality,

including another handsome bed-sharing friend during his presidency, Captain David Derrickson. But unlike the American revolutionary hero we met in episode 10, Baron von Steuben, who is very likely gay, the case for Lincoln being gay is less compelling. That said, he sure isn't a winner with the ladies. The gangly storyteller has no game. Really, his first actual romance, perhaps even fiancé, is the beautiful, short, blue-eyed, auburn-haired daughter of a new Salem founder and tavern keeper, Ann Rutledge. But she dies in August 1835, likely of typhoid fever. Her death triggers Lincoln's depression, which, unfortunately for the future president, is a family condition that will plague him all his days. Lincoln pulls through,

though. He gets quite serious with the intellectual, dark-featured Mary Owens in 1836, but insecurities and cold feet kill this relationship by the next year. Finally, the state legislator meets beautiful, sophisticated, witty 22-year-old Kentucky transplant Mary Todd, who moves to Springfield in 1839. They get engaged only to break it off around or on New Year's Day 1841. I can't tell you what's going on at this point. No one can. It's possible Mary's flirtatious ways with men are getting under Lincoln's skin. It's also possible that Lincoln is developing an eye for another woman, Matilda Edwards. Whatever it is, the breakup brings on a bout of depression even worse than the one after Anne's

death. The 32-year-old successful Springfielder fails to attend votes in the state legislature. I am the most miserable man living, Lincoln writes. Here's another expression of his pain. Quote, if what I feel were equally distributed on the whole human family, there would not be one cheerful face on the earth. Close quote. As a precaution, bunkmate Joshua Speed removes Lincoln's knives and razors. Yeah, the man who many hold as the greatest U.S. president of all time is that close to suicide. Only with Joshua's friendship and months of work does Lincoln somehow pull his mind back from this likely genetically predisposed abyss. Thank God for good friends. Eventually, after almost fighting a duel with broadswords,

yep, I'm totally going to drop that and just keep going, Lincoln even patches things up with Mary Todd. They marry, though not without a hilarious anecdote. While dressing for his wedding, the son of Lincoln's landlord asks him where he's going. To hell, I suppose, the groom replies. Ah, the time-honored tradition of cold feet. But he doesn't back out. The couple weds on November 4th, 1842. Lincoln is well established by this point, but the 1840s reflects his higher ambitions. He ups his law game for one thing. After having served as junior partner to John T. Stewart until 1841, then with Stephen T. Logan from 41 to 44, he steps into the senior role by partnering with

William H. Herndon. Lincoln travels Illinois, riding the circuit of the judiciary, and just crushes it. The dude connects with common people on juries and readily concedes points to his adversaries just to flip the script at the end by demonstrating the one point on which he didn't cave was the only one that mattered. To quote one of his colleagues, any man who took Lincoln for a simple-minded man would wind up with his back in a ditch. Making good money and now a new father to his first son, Robert, Lincoln purchases a house in 1844. But professional and personal success aren't sufficient. He's still political. After years

of waiting for the Whig nomination on a gentlemanly rotating basis, he gets it and is elected a U.S. congressman in 1846, the same year as his second son, Eddie, is born. I'm sure you remember from episodes 33 through 36 that the Mexican-American War is going on at this time, right? The war largely defines Lincoln's time in Congress. Like his fellow Whigs, he questions President Polk's narrative that Mexico provoked the war, and on December 22, 1847, Lincoln does so publicly through his spot resolutions. You might recall these from episode 36, but in case you don't, Lincoln asks for proof that the quote-unquote spot where the war's first shots were fired were indeed, quote, our own soil, close quote, not Mexico's.

Alas, this move doesn't make the splash Lincoln hoped for. If anything, it just gives the Dems back in Illinois fodder with which to attack him. He supports the failed attempt to ban slavery in annexed territory from Mexico through the Wilmot Proviso, also explained in episode 36, and wants to ban slavery in D.C., but that doesn't fly either. Sticking to his gentlemanly promise not to run again, and not interested in newly elected Whig president Zachary Taylor's offer to serve as governor of Oregon Territory,

Lincoln decides he's done with politics and heads home to Illinois. Well, back to the law. Lincoln is good at it, and he rakes in the dough, even as he refuses to overcharge clients. Lincoln and Mary are heartbroken to lose little Eddie to an illness, possibly cancer, just before his fourth birthday in 1850. Sadly, he won't be the last child they bury. Ten months later, their next son, Willie, is born. Their last son, Tad, is born in 1853. But then the 1854 Kansas-Nebraska Act happens. This gets Lincoln all pissed off. I'm sure you remember from episode 41 that this act kills the Missouri Compromise of 1820. In other words, it opens up the possibility of slavery in territory from the Louisiana Purchase

north of parallel 3630. And it's Illinois Senator Stephen Douglas who sponsors this odious bill. Oh hell no, it's quote Lincoln. I was losing interest in politics when the repeal of the Missouri Compromise aroused me again. Close quote. The fiery anti-slavery lawyer runs once more for the state legislature and travels Illinois speaking on behalf of his fellow Nebraska Act opposing Whigs. This is how he ends up giving a speech in Peoria on October 16, 1854. Railing against the repeal of the Missouri Compromise, Lincoln concedes that the Constitution permits slavery, but argues that constitutionality doesn't equate morality. To quote, The spread of slavery I cannot but hate. I hate it because of the monstrous injustice of slavery itself, close quote. He goes on arguing that slavery requires one to quote,

deny the humanity of the Negro, close quote, that slavery is antithetical to the Declaration of Independence statement that all men are created equal. Lincoln, who reveres the Founding Fathers, also points out how the Constitution, while permitting slavery, avoids the word out of shame, and he argues the Founders contained slavery like a cancer that was meant to be extracted, not expanded. Quote, the thing is hid away in the constitution just as an afflicted man hides away a wen or a cancer, which he dares not cut out at once lest he bleed to death. Close quote. Talk about bringing the heat. Lincoln gets national attention with this speech. He's elected to the legislature, but turns it down. Remember, this is long before the 17th Amendment, meaning U.S. senators aren't elected by popular statewide vote. Instead,

state legislators pick senators, and in Illinois, seated state legislators can't be candidates. In other words, Lincoln turns down his seat in order to have a crack at the U.S. Senate. The gamble comes close but doesn't work, and a disappointed Lincoln turns back to practicing law. I'll reference episode 41 again to remind you that the rancor over the Kansas-Nebraska Act basically kills the Whig party. Seriously, Stephen Douglas lit a bomb with that thing. As the faction dies, Lincoln's anti-slavery sentiments takes him to the newly forming Republican Party. He's even considered for Republican presidential candidate John C. Fremont's VP in 1856, but not chosen. He still campaigns for the old Pathfinder, and even though

John loses, this pays dividends as Illinois Republicans support him when he challenges Stephen Douglas for his U.S. Senate seat in the next election cycle. Want to learn how you can make smarter decisions with your money? Well, I've got the podcast for you. I'm Sean Piles, and I host NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast. On our show, we help listeners like you make the most of your finances. I sit down with NerdWallet's team of nerds, personal finance experts in credit cards, banking, investing, and more. We answer your real-world money questions and break down the latest personal finance news. The nerds will give you the clarity you need by cutting through the clutter and misinformation in today's world of personal finance. We don't promote get-rich-quick schemes or hype unrealistic side hustles.

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cannot sue in court, it called the already repealed Missouri Compromise unconstitutional as Chief Justice Taney used the case as an excuse to make slavery effectively legal in all U.S. territories. Well, this totally contradicts Senator Stephen Douglas' whole popular sovereignty idea, which says states and territories should decide for themselves whether to permit slavery or not. Now, Stephen is no opponent of slavery, not even close. But when the proposed Lecompton Constitution threatens to push slavery on the would-be state of Kansas, he doesn't support it because that contradicts popular sovereignty. That is, states and territories choosing, not Washington, D.C. You see it, yeah?

And that puts the senator at odds not only with SCOTUS, but with his fellow Democrat, U.S. President James Buchanan. I know, that last bit was more concentrated than the orange juice many of us grew up on and still love. But I did give you all the details on the Dred Scott case, its ruling, popular sovereignty, and the Lecompton Constitution in episode 41. Last time I referenced that episode, I promise. Maybe. If you need to review them in detail, by all means revisit the episode. Otherwise, all you need to know right now is that the Dred Scott ruling has just made slavery in any U.S. territory legal, and this has put Mr. Popular Sovereignty Stephen Douglas in a vulnerable position. So naturally, Lincoln is going to pounce.

In a very odd step for the era, the Illinois Republican Party actually nominates Lincoln for U.S. Senate. I mean, it's the state legislature, not the people at large, that will elect the senator. So what's the point, right? It actually pisses off some people, but the basic idea is that Republicans are saying, if we get enough state legislative seats to make the call, our new senator will be Lincoln. In accepting this nomination at the Illinois Republican State Convention on June 16, 1858, Lincoln delivers a stunning speech with a solid biblical reference. A house divided against itself cannot stand. I believe this government cannot endure,

permanently half-slaved and half-free. I do not expect the union to be dissolved. I do not expect the house to fall. But I do expect it will cease to be divided. It will become all one thing or all the other. Close quote. Whew! Knowing that he'll be president during the coming Civil War, his words are a bit eerie, aren't they? With that nomination for Senate, it's not long before Lincoln, feeling his disadvantage to the incumbent, challenges Stephen to debate.

The senator accepts. They'll hold seven three-hour debates. Yeah, 21 hours of content on one topic. Slavery. None of this vague, meaningless, two-minute response BS that lets candidates hide their real thoughts. So eat your heart out, major network slash cable news hosted debates of the 21st century. Held between August and October 1858, each debate will take place in a different Illinois congressional district, minus the two in which both have already spoken separately, Chicago and Springfield. So you ready for them to step into the ring for the

seven round fight? Here we go. Ladies and gentlemen, in this corner, standing at six foot four and weighing 180 pounds, we have the lanky, moderate Republican candidate who opposes the existence of slavery in all US territories, Mr. Abraham Honest Abe Lincoln. And in this corner, standing at five foot four and far more stout, we have the Democratic popular sovereignty, let all states and territories decide on slavery for themselves. Candidate, the current reigning champion of Illinois, seated Senator, Mr. Stephen, the little giant Douglas. Fight.

Debate one. Ottawa, Illinois, August 21st. It's early afternoon and standing room only in Lafayette Square. Just southwest of Chicago, Ottawa has about 9,000 inhabitants, yet the audience numbers at least 10,000. Looking to beat the crowds, some geniuses clamor up on the stage's not-designed-to-hold bodyweight roof. Guess there won't be much shade for the speakers on this summer day. Stephen starts and he comes out swinging hard, looking to pin Lincoln as an abolitionist.

Now you might be thinking, but he is. But don't confuse someone who's anti-slavery with abolitionist. There are, for instance, poor white farmers who have no moral objection to slavery. They just hate competing for jobs against slave labor. Others, like Lincoln, find it morally repugnant, want to prevent its spread, and would like to use gradual emancipation to cut into it, but they recognize its regretful legality. Then there are abolitionists. They want slavery gone, damn the costs. Think Frederick Douglass, or more violently, think John Brown. That last camp is considered extremist and has no chance in hell of getting elected in Illinois,

so Stephen wants voters to see Lincoln and the whole Republican Party in that light. He does this in a number of ways. For one thing, the little giant cites resolutions he claims the new Republican Party approved in 1854 and asks if Lincoln stands by them. I desire to know whether Mr. Lincoln today stands as he did in 1854, in favor of the unconditional repeal of the Fugitive Slave Law. I desire him to answer whether he stands, pledged today as he did in 1854, against the admission of any more slave states into the Union, even if the people want them. He uses Lincoln's interest in ending slavery in D.C. while a congressman against him. I want to know whether he stands today pledged

the abolition of slavery in the District of Columbia. Stephen continues with more such questions. I desire to know whether he stands pledged to prohibit slavery in all the territories of the United States, north as well as south of the Missouri Compromise Line. You get the point, right? The little giant also refers to the, quote, black Republican platform, close quote, stirring fears that Republicans want the kind of mixed race society Illinois has made illegal through its state constitution's ban on black settlers. Quote, do you desire to turn this beautiful state into a free Negro colony?

Close quote. No, no, the crowd calls. Well, the punch lands. Usually well-spoken Lincoln flounders on the defense as he reminds the crowd of his Peoria speech, in which he said he didn't have an answer for ending slavery. A cautious man and now off-balance, Lincoln comes across less than confident. Ah, you've got to focus on your footwork, Lincoln. Stephen's worked you over. Lincoln's encouraged to do more swinging of his own in the next debate. When you see Abe at Freeport, for God's sake, tell him to charge, Chester, charge! Chicago Press and Tribune co-editor Charles Ray tells Congressman Elihu Washburn.

And he will. Debate 2. Freeport, August 27th. The farther north you go in Illinois, the more anti-slavery the crowd gets. Being so close to the state's northern edge is nothing but good for Lincoln. He starts by answering the questions Stephen used to catch him so off guard last time. He's okay with the fugitive slave law. He is solidly against slavery in the territories, but does not see how he could prohibit a would-be slave state from joining the Union if that were the will of the people. He would like to end slavery in D.C., but gradually,

with the consent of D.C. residents and compensating slave owners. Under these conditions, yes, Lincoln would like to, he says, quoting Henry Clay, sweep from our capital that foul blot upon our nation. These are solid, tepid, anti-slavery, not abolitionist answers. The crowd goes wild. Forgive me for mixing my sports metaphors. And now Lincoln's ready to strike with some questions of his own. I won't go through all of them, but the second is the kicker. Quote, Can the people of the United States Territory, in any lawful way, against the wish of any citizen of the United States,

exclude slavery from its limits prior to the formation of a state constitution? Close quote. This question backs Stephen into a corner. You remember why, right? No worries, I've got you. If he says yes, a territory can prevent slavery, he'll be in disagreement with SCOTUS's god-awful Dred Scott decision. Seriously, it's largely considered the biggest F-up in U.S. judicial history. And with President Buchanan. But Lincoln knows Stephen will say yes, because to say no would require a backpedaling on his beloved let-all-the-states-and-territories-choose principle of popular sovereignty. Ha! Right on cue, Stevens stands up for popular sovereignty and tries to thread the needle of not contradicting SCOTUS by saying local laws could simply not protect slavery, which would undercut it even if higher laws legalize it. This awkward dance done to a medley

of Dred Scott and popular sovereignty becomes known, in honor of the town hosting the debate as the Freeport Doctrine. Now for a right hook. Yes, I'm back to boxing. Turns out Stephen got some stuff wrong last week in Ottawa. Yeah, it's super hard to call people out on the spot in 1858 because, well, no Wikipedia, but Lincoln's peeps did some research. Those supposed abolitionist-sounding resolutions didn't belong to the whole Illinois Republican Party. They came from Kane County. I know, a politician who doesn't have his facts straight is super surprising, but there it is. So what up now, Stephen? Lincoln's calling you out, son. Looks like the future great emancipator is getting his footwork down. Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. But Stephen's does. He's referencing Lincoln's spot resolutions while a

congressman during the Mexican-American War. But overall, almost everyone thinks Lincoln really stepped it up in the second round. Debate three, Jonesboro, September 15th. Lincoln will get less love here on the state's more pro-slavery southern side, and he knows it. The town has less than a thousand people. The crowd is less than 2,000. They start getting a little repetitive with their canned, contained slavery versus it-can-go-anywhere popular sovereignty platforms. That's going to happen by the third throwdown. But let me mention something the little giant's been saying I haven't yet highlighted. Unlike Lincoln, Stephen does not believe African Americans have a right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. To quote him, I am aware that all the abolitionist lecturers that you find traveling about through

the country are in the habit of reading the Declaration of Independence to prove that all men were created equal and endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights. I say to you, my fellow citizens, that in my opinion, the signers of the Declaration had no reference to the Negro whatever when they declared all men to be created equal. I know, it's gut-wrenching to think these are mainstream views in mid-19th century America. But well, the sources speak for themselves, don't they? Lincoln wisely avoids getting dragged into this fight in front of the pro-slavery audience. Instead, he slams Stephen's newly enunciated Freeport Doctrine. Well done, Lincoln. This crowd was never yours, but I'm giving the round to you.

Debate 4. Charleston, September 18th. It's three days later, and in this eastern center part of the state, near where his now deceased father settled, Lincoln has a slight home field advantage. Showing up, there's a massive, friendly work of art depicting him arriving in Illinois in a wagon 30 years back. Ah, but the Dems have their own handiwork. A banner that reads, quote, Negro equality, close quote, and depicts a white man, black woman, and their child. You and I might just see a loving family, but remember the era we're in right now. For this crowd, the suggestion is truly extreme. Even many abolitionists would not support mixed-race marriages.

So this is, sadly, in this 19th century day and age, a real fear-mongering slam against Lincoln. Our lanky, 6'4", moderate anti-slavery candidate addresses the banner. Quote, I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people. Close quote. Damn. Okay, by this point, you can see that the comet is the quote-unquote right one for any

shrewd anti-slavery politician to make but beyond political expediency this is lincoln's view in our 21st century simplifications i think we sometimes forget that fighting slavery in the 19th century doesn't necessitate being on board with a full civil rights, mixed-race society. That's evidenced by Lincoln's comment just a minute or so later. Quote, I do not understand that because I do not want a Negro woman for a slave, I must necessarily want her for a wife. Close quote.

To be clear, I don't think that's funny. I'm not adding that laughter and applause for dramatic effect. Like the earlier ones in this debate, those reactions are noted in historical sources. Lincoln now shifts, arguing that, despite Stevens' opposition to the proposed and failed slave-permitting Lecompton Constitution in Kansas that we discussed earlier, the Little Giant was actually part of a conspiracy to turn Kansas into a slave state. Lincoln doesn't really lay on this. What can I say? Charleston got away from him. This wasn't his best round. Debate 5. Galesburg, October 7th. A bit farther northwest, a Republican-friendly crowd of 15,000 plus gathers for the debate at Knox College. To no one's surprise, Stephen opens with popular sovereignty, then tries to depict Honest Abe as a flip-flopper whose degree of anti-slavery shifts

with the crowd. Next, the little giant doubles down on his line from the third debate that the founding fathers didn't intend for blacks to have rights. Says Stephen, quote, In my opinion, this government was made by our fathers on the white basis. It was made by white men for the benefit of white men and their posterity forever, and was intended to be administered by white men in all time to come. Close quote. The little giant then goes all Dred Scott ruling, adding that blacks do not have to be slaves, but they sure aren't citizens. Lincoln's not going to say blacks and whites are equal or should mix. No surprise after that last debate. But he will fight the assertion that the

founders wanted to deny African Americans their right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Calling Stevens' words, quote, a slander upon the framers, close quote, Lincoln says you could search the whole world over and you wouldn't find, quote, one single affirmation from one single man that the Negro was not included in the Declaration of Independence until the necessities of the present policy of the Democratic Party, close quote. Whew. Arguing over what the founding fathers intended, now that's an official political debate. Lincoln finishes by saying Stephen's distortion of history is part of his effort to spread slavery across the nation. But again, I'll remind you, honest Abe's misrepresenting. Stephen's still all about

popular sovereignty, meaning if a state or territory wants to ban slavery or practice slavery, he doesn't care. The key thing is the decision rests with the voters. Debate 6. Quincy, October 13th. A short jaunt northeast, not too far from Ottawa actually, the showdown continues in front of another 12,000. But forgive me, they don't say much of anything new here. So let's just hop aboard the city of Louisiana and ride down the Mississippi with the two candidates to the final act. Debate 7. Alton, October 15. Some 5,000 have gathered in this town just up the Mississippi from St. Louis, Missouri. Stevens beat.

The little giant spends his time explaining his position on the Lecompton Constitution, then once again insists the founders didn't intend for non-white people to have rights. In doing so, he seems to rebuff Lincoln's point in the fifth debate, that no document has ever said blacks are excluded, by claiming in his strained but deep base voice, quote, the signers of the Declaration of Independence has no reference to Negroes at all when they declared all men to be created equal, close quote. Now, in case you, like me, are scratching your head thinking, well, the signers didn't specify white people either, Stephen clarifies his point. To quote again,

Close quote. It's so! It's so! Some in the crowd call out amid cheers. Again, those cheers and comments from the crowd are noted in the historical record. I'm not making any of this up. Lincoln knows this is a Southern Transplant audience, but he sticks to his guns. Slavery must not spread, and while

quote, the democratic policy everywhere carefully excludes the idea that there is anything wrong in it, that is the real issue. It is the eternal struggle between these two principles, right and wrong, throughout the world. Close quote. Well said, Honest Abe. Well said. This is it. The last debate. The votes are close, but the Dems land more seats in the state legislature. So, in this pre-17th Amendment America, Lincoln loses. The state legislature votes to send Stephen back to the U.S. Senate by a vote of 54 to 46. Ah, this is what I was getting at when I said Lincoln would never lose a popular vote again, but might lose a future election.

However, it's really not bad for Lincoln. He just debated slavery against one of the most well-known politicians in the country for 21 hours. The debate had national coverage. He might have lost the race, but he became an American household name in the process and significantly impacted the ongoing conversation on slavery in the United States. These factors will come to bear in the 1860 presidential election, but that's a story for next time. Right now, we need to circle back to the story from today's intro and find out how John Brown got himself stuck in that engine house and what happens next. So let's leave Illinois and head east on one of those trains that pass right through

Harper's Ferry, Virginia. Here we go. Napoleon Bonaparte rose from obscurity to become the most powerful and significant figure in modern history. Over 200 years after his death, people are still debating his legacy. He was a man of contradictions, a tyrant and a reformer, a liberator and an oppressor, a revolutionary and a reactionary. His biography reads like a novel, and his influence is almost beyond measure. I'm Everett Rummage, host of the Age of

Napoleon podcast, and every month I delve into the turbulent life and times of one of the greatest characters in history, and explore the world that shaped him in all its glory and tragedy. It's a story of great battles and campaigns, political intrigue, and massive social and economic change, but it's also a story about people, populated with remarkable characters. I hope you'll join me as I examine this fascinating era of history. Find The Age of Napoleon wherever you get your podcasts. From Fort Sumter to the Battle of Gettysburg. From the Emancipation Proclamation to Appomattox Courthouse, from the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments to the Compromise of 1877, from Abraham Lincoln and

Ulysses S. Grant and William Tecumseh Sherman to Jefferson Davis and Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson. The Civil War and Reconstruction was a pivotal era in American history. I'm Rich. And I'm Tracy. And we're the hosts of a podcast that takes a deep dive into that era when a war was fought to save the Union and to free the slaves. And when the work to rebuild the nation after that war was over turned into a struggle to guarantee liberty and justice for all Americans. Look for The Civil War and Reconstruction wherever you find your podcasts. Well, while we're on this train, CL Josh and I want to chat it up about our experience with The Great Courses Plus. Yes.

Yeah, it's awesome. The app is actually like really slick like you can conveniently listen on your phone anywhere and listening i have a 35 minute commute every day so it's super easy for me to listen and the best part is i can pick up right where i left off on the audio when i go to start watching just like you do when you're binging your favorite show on your phone your ipad apple watch your laptop your phone, your iPad, Apple Watch, your laptop, your car stereo, your Morse code, you know, the Pony Express, whatever you guys binge on. Because I know, CL, you're binging something right now, aren't you?

Oh, I definitely am. Lately, I've been binging The Black Death. Yeah, my kids and I are loving it. Good. That's not weird. That's not, yeah, that's not dark. You said that. Keep going. So it's called The Black Death, The World's Most Devastating Plague. The teacher, Dr. Dorsey Armstrong out of Purdue University is awesome. She's so engaging, you guys. And the depth of her knowledge on the subject is fantastic.

I mean, I thought I knew about the 14th century European plague. I had no idea that it all started with germ warfare. None. So check it out if you guys want the details on how the Black Plague actually got started. It is an awesome course. Dr. Armstrong keeps the Black Death lively. Okay, so that was a crappy pun. I apologize. But a course that I'm totally nerding out on and think many HTDS listeners would enjoy as well is Professor Eric Berger's Law School for Everyone, Constitutional Law. Guys, remember those important legal cases we discussed in episodes past like Marbury v. Madison or McCulloch v. Maryland? Let's just say you'll be well prepared to sail through his course and wrap your head

around the basics of constitutional law and how it works today. And then you'll be all set to write those emails to your state or federal legislators. But whether you want to listen to these courses or learn about wine, game theory, math, language, you name it, the great Courses Plus has got you. You really can stream a course on just about anything taught by the best minds at the best institutions in any given field. So guys, take advantage of a free month of unlimited access to these incredible courses on just about anything by signing up at the following website, thegreatcoursesplus.com forward slash HTDS. You know the initials of the show. Make sure you use the HTDS URL so that you can receive your free month of The Great Courses Plus.

You'll also be showing some love for history that doesn't suck. Again, that URL is thegreatcoursesplus.com forward slash HTDS. And now, back to the story. You remember John Brown, right? I mean, yes, we saw his SOL situation at the start of the episode, but in case you forgot, he's the abolitionist who decided to fight fire with fire by hacking up supporters of slavery with a broadsword back at Bleeding Kansas in episode 41. It's been a few years since then, and as the 1850s have worn on, a growing, albeit still

small minority of abolitionists have come to believe that violence is the only answer. Even pensive, brilliant Frederick Douglass has come to this line of thinking. Slaveholders, tyrants, and despots have no right to live, he says. In this environment, John began studying slave revolts and guerrilla warfare and concluded that he could launch a full-on war against slavery. First, he would take the U.S. Army at Harper's Ferry, Virginia. After taking the arms needed for a veritable army, he would leave this town at

the confluence of the Potomac and the Shenandoah Rivers and take to the Appalachians. Once there, his army would have the needed cover to use guerrilla tactics as more and more slaves flooded his ranks. With the support of six fellow abolitionists known as the Secret Six, he spent a year gathering supplies and working out the details for his attack at Harpers Ferry. In July 1859, he positions himself by renting a farmhouse just across the Potomac and a few miles north of the town in Washington County, Maryland. The army he hoped for never materializes. John asked Frederick Douglass to join him, but his friend knew attacking a federal armory was a suicide mission. By October, his ranks, excluding John, number a measly 21 troops. 16 white men,

three of whom are his own sons, and five black men. The last recruit, Francis Merriam, arrives only hours before they move out on October 16th. At 10 a.m. on that Sunday morning, John holds a Bible service and reads his, quote, provisional constitution, close quote, to his supporters once more. The self-proclaimed slave liberator borrowed heavily from the 80-something-year-old Declaration of Independence when writing this document. It reads, quote, when in the course of human events it becomes necessary for an oppressed people to rise and assert their natural rights as human beings and break that Close quote. With those patriotic words running through their minds, the rebels begin the assault at 8 p.m. Three men stay behind to guard their Maryland farmhouse, while John and the other 18 move out

to various tasks under the darkening sky. Some cut telegraph wires to prevent calls for help. Others move toward Harper's Ferry. Still others go to nearby plantations to make hostages of masters and to free slaves that could swell the ranks of this small army. One such plantation is that of Louis Washington. This isn't happenstance. As the great nephew of founding father George Washington, Louis is on John's most wanted list. Knowing the impact it will provoke, the fierce abolitionist wants Louis as a captive, and it doesn't hurt that Lewis has inherited some cool weapons that once belonged to his famous great-uncle. The sword of

Frederick the Great, and a pistol from the Marquis de Lafayette. And not one to let up on the symbolism, John sends one of his African-American participants, Osborne Anderson, so that it is a black man taking white Louis Washington as prisoner. But one symbolic prisoner is just a start. Another raiding party hits John Allstatt's nearby farm. The slave liberators take John and his 18-year-old son prisoner and tell the six Allstatt slaves they are now free. The freedmen and their captive owners go with the raiders back to the armory at Harper's Ferry. Here, the now free men become armed guards against their former masters. As the captive-taking-slash-slave-liberating happens on the Washington and Allstatt plantations, John drives a wagon full of weapons and toys six miles from their Maryland farm to Harper's Ferry, Virginia. I mean really large. Both trains and

wagons cross the Potomac on this thing. John Caggy and Aaron Stevens take its unsuspecting elderly 9th century William Williams hostage. The small army soon has control of the town's two bridges, the armory, arsenal, rifle factory, and the engine house. As the slave-owning hostages arrive around midnight, John makes his goal known. I came here from Kansas, and this is a slave state. I want to free all the Negroes in this state. I have possession of the United States armory, and if the citizens interfere with me, I must only burn the town and have blood. Things are off to a good start for John, but they start to slip around midnight. Bridge sentry Patrick Higgins shows up for his graveyard shift, but he knows something's off. William isn't there. The lights

are out. Patrick's slowly approaching the bridge when a voice calls out, Halt! John's guards, one of whom is his son, Oliver, now approach. But Patrick isn't about to be a hostage. He punches Oliver in the ear and runs for it as the other guard, Stuart Taylor, fires. Patrick's ear is grazed, but he's okay and hides in a nearby saloon. Even worse for John's covert ops is the arrival of an eastbound Baltimore and Ohio passenger train on the bridge at 1.25 a.m. Wounded Patrick signals to the train's conductor that there's danger ahead. The train stops and the conductor sends out a few scouts to see what's up. Oliver and Stewart tell baggage handler Shepard Hayward to stop, but the confused man doesn't,

so they fire. He's hit in the back below the heart. This shooting makes for the first casualty of John Brown's raid to free slaves. Ironically, Shepard is a black man. The assault is no longer secret. Harper's Ferry messengers are spreading the word about John Brown and his slave revolt by a sun-up on October 17th. Come 7 a.m., the town's inhabitants are exchanging fire with John and his men. The firefight results in a second casualty as a Harper's Ferry grocer is shot and killed. Things only get hotter at 10 a.m. as local militia force John's men to fall back, taking the bridges and the armory. As the lead flies, one of John's few African-American men, Dangerfield Newby, is hit in the neck. He dies immediately, but the livid townspeople

desecrate his body by shoving sticks in the wound, cutting off his ears and genitals, and leaving his body in a nearby gutter. Yeah, this is looking rather desperate. John sends William Thompson out with a flag of truce, but the people have no interest in talking. They just take the man captive. Cutting some losses, John retreats with 11 of his 30 or so hostages and most of his men to the engine house. By this point, Washington DC is in the loop. President Buchanan calls up 90 Marines to go quell this rebellion, raid, or whatever it is. Their commander is one of the best in the US military, a guy we met back in the Mexican-American war, now Brevet Colonel Robert E.

Lee. It's now noon. The baggage handler shot last night has died. Aaron Stevens and John's son, Watson, carry out a white flag for a second time to parley. Unlike William, they aren't taken hostage. They just get shot up. Both drop to the ground, severely wounded. Aaron's life will be saved by a hostage while Watson crawls back to the engine house, bleeding out of his stomach. This whole operation has gone to hell, and one of John's men, Will Lehman, knows it. He makes a break for it. As he runs out of the engine house and toward the river, the militia spot him, fire, and hit him, causing him to fall wounded into the water.

Merely wounded, Will floats away, then pulls himself on a rock. Safe. Except he's not. Literally holding to the stone for dear life, he sees a man walking into the river with a gun in hand. Don't shoot! I surrender! the abolitionist calls out. The gunman, George Shoppert, answers by smiling, pointing his revolver straight at Will's face and blowing it off. Others shoot at his body until the current finally whisks it away. An hour later, around 2 p.m., John's men in the rifle works are pushed out. John Caggy and one of the liberated slaves who joined in, Jim, are both killed in the exchange

of fire. Louis Leary is shot in the back while trying to cross the river. Still more are captured. Around this same time, a shot rips Mayor Fontaine Beckham's shoulder and chest. It's ironic. The civil leader's just been telling everyone to stay inside. If the people of Harper's Ferry didn't hate John before, and to be clear, they did. Now they really do. Fontaine was beloved by all, white and black. His will frees his slaves upon his death. Not to make light of this by all accounts good man's death, but John Brown and his men

have no idea that in killing him, they did just legally free his slaves. And this takes us to about where we met John. As the afternoon gives way to evening, all of John's men who haven't gotten away are in the engine house with him and the 11 hostages. Stuart Taylor lays dead on the floor. John's two boys, Oliver and Watson, are bleeding out, writhing in pain. Oliver dies in the night. Then we get to the morning of the 18th. Robert E. Lee sends Jeb to talk, and as you know, that doesn't work, so out come a dozen Marines with hammers. When that doesn't work, the Marines find a ladder and use that as a proper battering ram. They soon force their way in. Lieutenant

Israel Green injures John with his sword and likely would have killed him if he had grabbed a real weapon, not a dress sword. John and his remaining abolitionist army is arrested, the hostages are freed, liberated slaves are taken back to slavery, and John's other injured son, Watson, dies the next day. John Brown is tried for murder, fomenting a slave rebellion, and treason against the state of Virginia. He's found guilty on all counts and sentenced to be executed. All six of his men captured in the engine house that morning are tried and sentenced to death as well. I won't tell you about all their executions, but John's is quite notable. He wakes on the morning of December 2nd,

reads the Bible, and sorts out his will. He calmly responds to some mail. He's asked if he would like a clergyman as execution. Ha! No, John wants nothing to do with a southern clergyman. Instead, he says, he'd like to be accompanied, quote, by barefooted, bare-legged, ragged slave children and their old gray-headed slave mother. I should feel much prouder of such an escort, and I wish I could have it. Close quote. That escort doesn't happen, though it passes into legend that it did. Thomas Hovenden's beautiful painting, The Last Moments of John Brown, depict a version of this tender fiction with John, arms bound, kissing a black child. It can't happen because John is being executed privately by the

military. Yeah, Virginia isn't risking anyone trying to break him out. Having said goodbye to his imprisoned men, John, bound at the arms and dressed in black, save his white socks and red slippers, steps into the back of a wagon with Sheriff James Campbell, Captain John Avis, and the undertaker. This is beautiful country. I have not cast my eyes over it before, that is, while passing through the field. John observes of the open grassy fields and mountains as the wagon rolls along. Yes. The captain, who's come to know John in the past few weeks, sadly replies, you're the gamest man I ever saw, Captain Brown. The undertaker remarks, yes, I was so trained up. It was one of the lessons of my mother,

but it is hard to part from friends. John answers. They arrive at the scaffold. John shows no fear as he's escorted up to the gallows. Sir, I have no words to thank you for your kindness, John tells Captain Avis. The captain replies in kind. Two rows of troops flank John. Among them is a young Virginia Gray who hates John with all his heart. His name is John Wilkes Booth. I'll leave him there, but take note. You won't hear

about him from me for a long time, but he's going to come back into the story. There are others in attendance, though, that are worth noting, like Robert E. Lee and Thomas Stonewall Jackson. You'll hear about them rather soon. With noose and hood on, John is ready to hang. They ask the abolitionist if he wants to signal when he's ready. No, I'm ready at any time, but do not keep me needlessly waiting, he stoically answers. But he does wait for several minutes as troops take proper positions. Finally, though, the moment comes. His neck snaps, and after a few convulsions, it's all over. So perish all such enemies of Virginia, all such enemies of the Union, all such foes of the human race,

calls out Colonel Preston. Oh, but one last thing. On John's way out to be executed this morning, he handed a note to one of the guards. Let me read that to you. Quote, I, John Brown, am now quite certain that the crimes of this guilty land will never be purged away but with blood. I had, as I now think, vainly flattered myself that without very much bloodshed it might be done. Close quote. John Brown, a terrorist or a hero, depending on your point of view, has been wrong about a lot of things in his life. But this, written on the eve of the 1860 presidential election? Well, it's just downright prophetic.

History That Doesn't Suck is created and hosted by me, Greg Jackson. Research and writing, Greg Jackson and C.L. Salazar. Production and sound design, Josh Beatty of J.B. Audio Design. Musical score, composed and performed by Greg Jackson and Diana Averill. For a bibliography of all primary and secondary sources consulted in writing this episode, visit historythatdoesntsuck.com. Join me in two weeks, where I'd like to tell you a story. gift puts them at producer status. Griffin, Henry Brunges, Jake Gilbreth, James G. Bledsoe, Janie McCreary, Jeff Marks, Jennifer Moods, Jennifer Magnolia, Jeremy Wells, Jessica Poppock, Joe Dobis, John Frugaldugel, John Boovey,

John Keller, John Oliveros, John Radlavich, John Schaefer, John Sheff, Jordan Corbett, Joshua Steiner, Justin M. Spriggs, Justin May, Kristen Pratt, Karen Bartholomew, Cassie Conecco, Kim R., Kyle Decker, Lawrence Neubauer, Linda Cunningham, Mark Ellis, Matthew Mitchell, Matthew Simmons, Melanie Jan, Nick Seconder, Nick Caffrell, Noah Hoff, Owen Sedlak, Paul Goringer, Randy Guffrey, Reese Humphreys-Wadsworth, Rick Brown, Sarah Trawick, Samuel Lagasa, Sharon Thiesen, Sean Baines, Steve Williams, Creepy Girl, Tisha Black, and Zach Jackson.