History That Doesn't Suck - 74: Reconstruction (Part 2): The Presidency of Ulysses S. Grant

Episode Date: September 28, 2020

 "The office has come to me unsought; I commence its duties untrammeled. I bring to it a conscious desire and determination to fill it to the best of my ability to the satisfaction of the people. " T...his is the story of scandal. Ulysses S. Grant has just been elected as the youngest US President to date. He has great hopes to usher in a new era of civil and political rights for African Americans and American Indians, as evidenced by the new 15th amendment. But can the honest Civil War hero do so when his Vice President and trusted former officers are busy making corrupt, illegal deals that inflate the value of gold, cost of railroads, and dodge taxes?  Welcome to the Grant Administration. ____ Connect with us on HTDSpodcast.com and go deep into episode bibliographies and book recommendations join discussions in our Facebook community get news and discounts from The HTDS Gazette  come see a live show get HTDS merch or become an HTDS premium member for bonus episodes and other perks. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Starting point is 00:01:21 Say it. Alright. Let's save Christmas. There it is. Only in theaters November 15th. Welcome to History That Doesn't Suck. I'm your professor, Greg Jackson, and as in the classroom, my goal here is to make rigorously researched history come to life as your storyteller. Each episode is the result of laborious research with no agenda other than making the past come to life as you learn. If you'd like to help support this work, receive ad-free episodes, bonus content,
Starting point is 00:01:48 and other exclusive perks, I invite you to join the HTDS membership program. Sign up for a seven-day free trial today at htdspodcast.com slash membership, or click the link in the episode notes. It's Thursday, March 4th, 1869. The late morning is cold and wet, but such gloomy weather won't keep the residents and visitors of Washington City inside today. American flags wave and crowds cheer as eight divisions of soldiers, white and black, parade through the streets of the federal capital. At the center of this martial fanfare, the man whom the spectators have come to see is
Starting point is 00:02:33 their soon-to-be-inaugurated 18th President of the United States, former General Ulysses S. Grant. Accompanied by friends like his old chief of staff, John Rawlings, the famous Civil War commander rides in an open carriage. And he's looking dapper. Trim and still blessed with a full head of chestnut brown hair, the 46-year-old bearded gent looks like exactly what he is. The youngest executive in American history to date.
Starting point is 00:03:03 But he feels out of place. Ulysses isn't a politician. He's a soldier. Exchanging a blue uniform for a black suit doesn't change who he is, and on some level, he feels that. Ulysses arrives at the U.S. Capitol during the 11 o'clock hour. First, his square-jawed and bearded vice president, outgoing Speaker of the House of Representatives Skyler Colfax, is inaugurated in the Senate chambers. The august, rectangular room, including its gallery seating, is packed. From General William Tecumseh Sherman to Admiral David Farragut,
Starting point is 00:03:36 fully uniformed Union war heroes sit to the right of the presiding officer. Everyone is soon settled. Shortly after 12 noon, Schuyler gives a polished speech and takes his oath as vice president to uphold and defend the Constitution. His polished manner is jarring for those who recall, as you may well from episode 66, that the last person to make this sacred promise was Andrew Johnson. And he was drunk. To quote the New York Times, Not a few here contrast this scene with the remarkable episode of four years ago
Starting point is 00:04:08 when a thousand ears listened, first with eagerness, then with surprise, and at last with unutterable disgust when the representatives of the government moved nervously in their seats and whispered in alarm, what if this man should be president? Of course, Lincoln's assassination made that very thing happen.
Starting point is 00:04:27 By the way, if you're wondering, Andy isn't here. Between impeachment and not getting the Democratic nomination for re-election, he's not interested in witnessing his successor's inauguration. Just like two other previous presidents, founding father John Adams and his boy, John Quincy. Andy's actually leaving D.C. right now, homebound for Tennessee. He'll return in 1875 as a senator, but only briefly, dying only months after taking office.
Starting point is 00:04:58 Whew, that aside turns somber. Sorry. Back to the inauguration. With Schuyler sworn in, the event moves outside to the Capitol's east front. Hats wave and cheers erupt from the tens of thousands of spectators. The people quiet down as balding U.S. Supreme Court Justice Salmon P. Chase administers the oath of office to Ulysses. As at Lincoln's second inauguration, the heavens seem to cooperate. Sunlight pierces through the clouds just in time for the soft-spoken, cigar-loving president to speak. He pulls his carefully prepared remarks from his breast pocket and begins.
Starting point is 00:05:37 The responsibilities of the position I feel, but accept them without fear. The office has come to me unsought. I commence its duties untrampled. In other words, Ulysses isn't bought and paid for. Perhaps as a nod to lingering frustrations from his predecessor, he assures the people that he'll let Congress make the laws while he enforces them. All laws will be faithfully executed whether they meet my approval or not. Huh. Yeah, doesn't sound like a politician. Sounds like a military officer who knows his role. The blue-eyed president is particularly concerned about the national debt. He wants it paid. Now. To protect the nation's honor,
Starting point is 00:06:29 every dollar of government indebtedness should be paid in gold. He knows that southern states are in great financial straits as they deal with the cost of war and shift away from a slave-based economy, but sees a new opportunity for the nation to expand its wealth. It looks as though providence has bestowed upon us a strongbox and the precious metals locked up in the sterile mountains of the far west. Yes, and the United States is only months away from having a transcontinental railroad that runs track all the way out to California. Those precious metals are
Starting point is 00:07:02 looking very accessible. But Ulysses' hardest words come last. Now you need to know that the main issue of the presidential election was reconstruction. The general campaigned for it, his opponent against it. Ulysses now wraps up his inaugural address by making it clear that he's standing by that position. Speaking of native peoples, he says, the proper treatment of the original occupants of this land, the Indians, one deserving of careful study, I will favor any course toward them which tends to their civilization and ultimate citizenship. Future generations will see the problem with the idea of quote-unquote civilizing native peoples, but a president talking about indigenous citizenship is serious, significant progress. As for the question of the
Starting point is 00:07:51 black vote, well, that's a simple one for Ulysses. It's a yes. He tells his white and black audience, the question of suffrage is one which is likely to agitate the public so long as a portion of the citizens of the nation are excluded from its privileges in any state. It seems to me very desirable that this question should be settled now, and I entertain the hope and express the desire that it may be by the ratification of the 15th article of amendment to the Constitution. The crowd cheers as Ulysses walks straight to his wife, Julia. She beams with pride. With a smile and a kiss on the cheek, he hands her the written speech he so closely guarded. And now, my dear, he says, knowing how badly Julia's wanted to read it, I hope you're satisfied. He then takes his 13-year-old daughter Nellie by the hand and walks toward his carriage.
Starting point is 00:08:53 As he rides to the White House, black and white soldiers and civilians follow. The celebrations continue well into the night. But tomorrow, the seasoned, general-turned, pro-Reconstruction president sets foot on a battlefield with which he's less accustomed. One where the enemy wears a friendly smile rather than a discernible uniform. One where participants seek to use or discredit their foe, not kill. This is the battlefield of politics. Welcome to History That Doesn't Suck. I'm your professor, Greg Jackson, Transcontinental Railroad. America is experiencing so many things at once in the 1870s.
Starting point is 00:10:06 We'll get to greater details on all of these in the next few episodes, but today we're laying some track. Sorry, bad transcontinental rail joke there. By hearing the story of the Grant administration. Ulysses is focused on reconstruction, so we'll hear about the 15th Amendment and his appointing federal officers from several minority groups. But sadly, we'll hear more about how Ulysses' large heart and willingness to trust burns him in the world of politics. Major scandals, including Black Friday, the Santo Domingo Affair, the Credit Mobilier Affair, and of course, the infamous Whiskey Ring, will hinder his years in the White House. But they're incredible stories with a man we already know well and will
Starting point is 00:10:45 provide us with a solid backdrop before we dive into the nitty-gritty in future episodes about the 1870s. It's another packed one, so brace yourself as we charge through the scandals that plague Ulysses. There are so many directions to go, and that we will go, with the Grant administration. So many things happen at once. But there's no better place to start than with the first decision for which he takes heat, the selection of his cabinet. Ulysses selects Alexander T. Stewart as Treasury Secretary. The Irish-born New Yorker is a king among merchants.
Starting point is 00:11:23 Great choice. But it's only after the nomination that Ulysses learns those financially invested in trade can't fill the position. The statute's meant to prevent conflicts of interest and exists largely thanks to another immigrant New Yorker and financial genius of Gaelic descent, the first Treasury Secretary, Alexander Hamilton. So Alexander Stewart's out, and Ulysses appears to be tripping right out the gate. That's not the only cabinet issue, though. The youthful president also makes the odd choice of selecting Elihu Washburn as Secretary of State. That's a problem because
Starting point is 00:11:56 the prominent Republican Illinoisan doesn't have the health to do the job and will only spend five days in the position. Historians will argue over why Ulysses does this, but I tend to agree with his biographer, Ron Chernow. Ulysses is letting his old buddy check an item off the bucket list. Elihu will now always be able to say he was Secretary of State. Speaking of historians bickering, which we love to do, it's literally part of the job, many will long complain that Ulysses' cabinet is full of mediocrity. But that view is increasingly debated. While the cabinet definitely has some hacks over the years,
Starting point is 00:12:33 it also has some real talent. For instance, Elihu's immediate replacement, Hamilton Fish, is a former U.S. Senator, New York Governor, and speaks four languages. He proves a solid choice for Secretary of State. And despite an initial misstep on Treasury Secretary, the next pick, George Boutwell, will excel. Meanwhile, Ulysses' old faithful chief of staff and close confidant John Rawlings makes a great initial Secretary of War, until tuberculosis takes his life only a few months into the job. It's a heartbreaking scene.
Starting point is 00:13:06 By early September, the 38-year-old war secretary is confined to his deathbed, and he knows it. He keeps asking when Ulysses will arrive. He needs to say goodbye. But the president isn't in D.C. He's up north, in Saratoga, New York. Hasn't the old man come yet? When will he get here? John ekes out.
Starting point is 00:13:28 Those present can see how upset he is. In about 10 minutes, U.S. General-in-Chief William Tecumseh Sherman answers. It's a lie, all right, but Cump's convinced a white lie will do him far more good than ill right now. Cump also sends a telegram to Ulysses to let him know their friend's death is near. Message received, Ulysses gets back to Washington City as quickly as he can. But God, these train schedules are not on his side. He makes it back just after 5 p.m. on September 6th, roughly one hour after John's past. Ulysses will now look after his deceased friend's children as he soldiers on in this new world of presidential politics without the benefit of John's company
Starting point is 00:14:10 and sage advice on politics and on whom to trust. That last point might be the most crucial. A man of honor to his core, Ulysses often fails to see when those less scrupulous than himself are up to no good until it's too late. Remember when Ulysses said in his inaugural speech that the national debt needs to be paid? Soldier that he is, he called it a matter of honor. He also specified it should be paid in gold. Let me fill you in on the federal government's financial situation.
Starting point is 00:14:45 During the Civil War, it relied on bonds and paper money, known for their green color as greenbacks. But now Ulysses wants to retire this debt. To that end, the hard money president has the government buying back U.S. bonds and Civil War currency with gold, leading toward a gold-backed currency. Jay Gould and Jim Fisk aren't so sure about this. These two New York financiers, who see bribery and fraud as a way of life, have been and still are speculating on gold. But as Treasury Secretary George Boutwell starts selling gold and hacking away at the national debt, the precious metals value has stabilized. It's even going back down. Jay and Jim can't have that. They set out to change the president's financial policy.
Starting point is 00:15:32 The demonic duo's hope rests in another shady financier, Abel Rathbone Corbin. Abel happens to be the president's brother-in-law, and through the summer of 1869, he arranges for the heavily bearded Jay Gould and the rotund, handlebarred mustache Jim Fisk. Yeah, the guy even looks the part of a 19th century villain. They just happen to show up at the same social events as Ulysses. They offer their counsel on Gould and inquire about Ulysses' plans. For his part, the president never gives them information. He typically pulls his favorite move when wanting to change the subject. Keep chewing a cigar and start talking about horses. But Jay and Jim feel they are winning. Based on FaceTime alone, investors assume they're
Starting point is 00:16:17 swaying the president. The duo give him gifts, like accommodations on private railroad cars. Furthermore, they lobby for and get Major General Daniel Butterfield appointed as assistant treasurer so he can provide inside trading info on gold sales from his office on Wall Street. A little bribery makes sure Daniel stays in line. Ulysses finally realizes these guys are bad actors,
Starting point is 00:16:41 that their concern for the value of gold has to do with their own pockets, not those of farmers. Amid September's for the value of gold has to do with their own pockets, not those of farmers. Amid September's soaring price of gold, Ulysses orders the sale of $4 million worth of the stuff. This kills the inflated price the next day. It also ruins a slew of investors riding this artificial bubble, including Ulysses' unscrupulous brother-in-law and Jim Fisk. September 24th, 1869 will come to be known as Black Friday. Poor Ulysses. No one suspects him of being an actual part of the scandal, but his trusty nature and failure to see the shadiness playing out right under his nose cost him popularity and prestige.
Starting point is 00:17:21 Damn, politicking was certainly something he had to deal with in the army, but this seems to be an entirely different game at the presidential level. When Johann Rall received the letter on Christmas Day 1776, he put it away to read later. Maybe he thought it was a season's greeting and wanted to save it for the fireside. But what it actually was, was a warning, delivered to the Hessian colonel, letting him know that General George Washington was crossing the Delaware and would soon attack his forces. The next day, when Raw lost the Battle of Trenton and died from two colonial Boxing Day musket balls, the letter was found, unopened, in his vest pocket. As someone with 15,000 unread emails in his inbox, I feel like there's a lesson there. Oh well, this is The Constant,
Starting point is 00:18:12 a history of getting things wrong. I'm Mark Chrysler. Every episode, we look at the bad ideas, mistakes, and accidents that misshaped our world. Find us at ConstantPodcast.com or wherever you get your podcasts. Was the Sphinx 10,000 years old? Were there serial killers in ancient Greece and Rome? What were the lives of transgender, intersex, and non-binary people like in the ancient world? We're Jen. And Jenny. From Ancient History Fangirl.
Starting point is 00:18:46 We tell you true stories and tall tales of the ancient world. Sometimes we do it tipsy. Sometimes we have amazing guests on our show. Historians like Barry Strauss, podcasters like Liv Albert, Mike Duncan, and authors like Joanne Harris and Ben Aronovich. We take you to the top of Hadrian's Wall to watch the Roman Empire fall at the end of the world. We walk the catacombs beneath the Temple of the Feathered Serpent under Teotihuacan. We walk the sacred spirals of the Nazca Lines in search of ancient secrets. And we explore mythology from ancient cultures around the world. Come find us at ancienthistoryfangirl.com or wherever you get your podcasts. Ulysses feels that difference in foreign affairs as well,
Starting point is 00:19:42 particularly in his aspiration to annex Santo Domingo, or as you and I will later know it, the Dominican Republic. In 1869, the government of the Spanish-speaking Caribbean nation likes the idea. It signs off on an annexation treaty that would grant the U.S. a 50-year lease of its Samanabe and eventually have Santo Domingo join the United States. Now, why would Ulysses want this? Is this just old-fashioned expansionism? There might be some of that in there. The U.S. is still expanding. It just bought Alaska from Russia two years back. Don't worry, I'll tell you that story another time soon, I promise. And the 19th century is one dominated by colonizing empires. But beyond military value, Ulysses sees economic and reconstruction value.
Starting point is 00:20:27 To quote his personal memoirs, Santo Domingo is upon our shores, is very fertile, and is capable of supporting 15 millions of people. I took it that the colored people would go there in great numbers, so as to have independent states governed by their own race. They would still be states of the Union and under the protection of the general government, but the citizens would be almost wholly colored. To be clear, Ulysses isn't calling for Black Americans to leave the U.S., nor is he saying they don't belong.
Starting point is 00:20:58 In the midst of Reconstruction's rising violence against Black Americans, he does, however, like the idea of a state where Black Americans can indisputably live in safety. Even if Black Americans don't move there, just having the option of becoming independent farmers in Santo Domingo will, he figures, improve their negotiating position for jobs. So Ulysses sees this as a win-win no matter what. But can he sell it to the Senate, which, per Article 2, Section 2 of the Constitution, must ratify treaties by a two-thirds-in-favor vote? It's now Sunday evening, January 2, 1870. Ulysses heads across Lafayette Square to the home of U.S. Senator and Chair of the Senate
Starting point is 00:21:39 Foreign Relations Committee, Charles Sumner. The honorable gentleman from Massachusetts, once beaten to within an inch of his life for his abolitionist views, has some wrinkles over this treaty of annexation. The president hopes he can iron those out. Showing up at Charles' place unannounced, Ulysses caught the senator in the midst of dinner with two friends. No problem. Declining the offered glass of sherry, Ulysses asks both guests to please stay and then starts to explain why he wants Santo Domingo in the union.
Starting point is 00:22:16 By the way, Mr. President, the wavy-haired, mutton-chopped senator suddenly interjects, it is very hard to turn out Governor Ashley. Charles is talking about his friend, James Ashley, the current governor of Montana Territory. I have just received a letter from the governor and I hope I shall not take too great a liberty, Mr. President, if I read it.
Starting point is 00:22:37 Too great a liberty or not, Charles reads the letter. Ulysses shrugs it off. Why retain a territory governor he doesn't like? He says as much to Charles, then returns to defending the treaty. Charles listens. Finally, he answers, I am an administration man
Starting point is 00:22:53 and whatever you do will always find in me the most careful and candid consideration. Well, if that isn't a yes, then Ulysses doesn't know what is. And seriously, I mean, he doesn't. Charles just politic spoke to him, which I'm not sure is a verb, but I'm making it one anyway. He made Ulysses think he said yes, but he never actually did. As the treaty winds through the Senate in 1870, it dies with a tie vote of 28 to 28, far short of two-thirds. It's only later Ulysses realizes that,
Starting point is 00:23:29 when Charles brought up his territory-governing friend, he likely wanted some quid pro quo. The straight-shooting general just couldn't read between the political lines. Okay, I know it sounds like Ulysses is really getting beat up so far. And obviously, he has to have some serious setbacks for several generations of historians to knock his presidency. But he has his victories too. How else would 21st century historians later find a more redeeming narrative? His administration avoids getting sucked into a potential war with Spain by getting Congress to call it support for Cuban independence.
Starting point is 00:24:00 Some talk of annexation here as well, but it's a footnote in this decade. We'll keep moving. Staying within the realm of foreign affairs, Ulysses also wins a huge victory in relations with the United Kingdom. See, the UK technically stayed neutral in the Civil War, but as an industrial nation cranking out cotton textiles, some of its citizens opted to help the slavery-reliant cotton-producing confederacy indirectly. One such example is the English-built Confederate sloop of war, the CSS Alabama, which sent its fair share of Union goods, ships, and men to the bottom of the sea. U.S. officials believe the U.K. government needs to pay up for such contributions, collectively
Starting point is 00:24:40 referred to as the Alabama Claims. There's even talk of trying to annex Canada. The UK calls the whole thing ridiculous. Relying on his capable Secretary of State, Hamilton Fish, Ulysses sees that American, British, and not wanting to be annexed Canadians meet in the US Capitol. They opt for international arbitration.
Starting point is 00:25:03 Talk about a huge precedent-setting move. A real credit to Ulysses. Ultimately, the UK and the US will put their issues to bed with the 1872 Treaty of Washington, which stipulates that the UK will pay $15.5 million to the US for damages. It will be quite the feather in Ulysses' cap. Ulysses also wins victories in his effort to fight for Americans of all races to be treated as full-fledged citizens. So much to say here. I'll start with straight-up Reconstruction. On the 3rd of February, 1870, one month after Ulysses spoke to Charles Sumner in
Starting point is 00:25:43 his home about Santo Domingo, the U.S. Constitution is officially amended for the 15th time. As expressed in his inaugural address, Ulysses is glad to see a constitutional guarantee that, whether born bond or free, Black Americans will have the vote throughout the country. Its first section reads, quote, the right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude, close quote. Not to overstate Ulysses' role in the amendment, but the presidential election of 1868 was largely a referendum on Reconstruction. The motto of Ulysses' Democratic opponent, Horatio Seymour, was,
Starting point is 00:26:27 and I quote, this is a white man's country, let white men rule. Close quote. Yeah, no beating around the bush there. And while Ulysses won the election by a commanding electoral college victory of 214 to 80, he only won the popular vote 3 million to 2.7. He still would have won the Electoral College without black ballots, but not the popular vote. That means Reconstruction is still on a knife's edge. If it's to last, it will need voting black
Starting point is 00:26:59 citizens. I can't stress that last point enough. First, let's not forget that many northern states still deny black Americans enfranchisement. By the 1868 election, only eight northern states had given black men the vote. In other words, this amendment is a game-changer not just in the South but across the nation. Second, Ulysses hopes the 15th Amendment will enable black Americans to protect themselves. Literally. A number of ex-Confederates have taken to vigilantism, or terrorism rather, to fight the extension of civil rights to black Americans. We got an example of that in the open to the last episode
Starting point is 00:27:37 with the 1866 New Orleans Massacre. And that was just one instance of many. Some bent on this hate-based violence are even organizing. One such group is called the Ku Klux Klan. And yes, I'll definitely go into more detail on it in a later episode. Promise. This organization has worried Ulysses for years. He's still pissed that his predecessor, President Andrew Johnson,
Starting point is 00:28:01 refused to take action against them. Yet, for all the good the 15th Amendment does for black men, it fails women. As with the mail-based allocation of electoral college votes in the 14th Amendment, women suffragists feel the sting of being passed up. Again. Susan B. Anthony flat out opposes the 15th
Starting point is 00:28:22 because of this exclusion. Elizabeth Cady Stanton and others immediately start lobbying Congress for a women's suffrage granting 16th Amendment. I have to imagine First Lady Julia Grant isn't happy either, given how vocal she gets about her support of women's suffrage at her White House socials. But alas, we are still decades away from such an amendment. There's one last thing the 15th Amendment does, though. It alters the relationship between the states and the federal government.
Starting point is 00:28:52 It does so with its one-sentence-long Section 2. Quote, The Congress shall have the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation. Close quote. See, the 14th Amendment might penalize states for excluding any male citizens from voting, but the 15th straight up takes the question of civil rights out of the hands of the states and gives it to the feds.
Starting point is 00:29:15 This trend will continue. Historian James McPherson points this out so well that, like biographer Ron Chernow, I'm going to borrow his analysis as well. 11 of the first 12 amendments constrain federal power, while six of the next seven, that is 13 through 19, enlarge it. Yeah, let that sink in. We are witnessing a real shift in American political thought and balance of power. So, at least for now, it looks like Reconstruction is working, and Ulysses is no small part of that. He welcomes Black officials, like Louisiana
Starting point is 00:29:54 Lieutenant Governor Oscar J. Dunn, to the White House. He names Black men as ambassadors, first sending Ebenezer D. Bassett to Haiti and James Milton Turner to Liberia. Meanwhile, hundreds of black men are appointed to various positions in the federal government, from customs collections to clerks and more. Forgive a quick interjection. I can't help but think how much Edwin Stanton would have loved to have seen these changes. Sadly, congestive heart failure claimed the life of Lincoln's cantankerous war secretary last year, on Christmas Eve, 1869, just days after the Senate confirmed him to his dream job of Supreme Court Justice. Rest in peace, Mars. Ulysses also sets something of a record as he brings Jews into the administration. Now, there's a crucial backstory here. During the Civil War's Vicksburg
Starting point is 00:30:45 campaign, then-General Grant was frustrated with wartime profiteers buying cotton, thereby indirectly funding the very army shooting at his men. Okay, that makes sense. Unfortunately, he bought into the anti-Semitism of the day and blamed Jews for the illegal trade. On December 17, 1862, he issued General Order No. 11, which states that, quote, the Jews, as a class violating every regulation of trade established by the Treasury Department and also Department orders, are hereby expelled from the Department within 24 hours from the receipt of this order. Brought to his attention, a surprised and disappointed President Lincoln sent orders to Ulysses to revoke the order immediately.
Starting point is 00:31:33 In 1870, however, now President Grant appoints Jews to dozens of offices, including the first ever Jewish territorial governor in Washington. Rabbi Isaac Mayer Wise says that this territorial governorship, quote, shows that President Grant has revoked General Grant's Notorious Order No. 11, close quote. Ulysses appears to be genuinely repentant. Finally, I'll remind you that our youthful general-turned-president spoke of wanting to study the treatment of Native Americans and do better. Right off the bat, Ulysses gets one thing right by getting General Ely Parker put in as Commissioner of Indian Affairs. Now, in case you've forgotten who Ely is, he was on Ulysses' staff during the
Starting point is 00:32:15 war. He wrote up the surrender at Appomattox. He's also a Seneca sachem. That's right, Ely is a Native American, and he's the first one to be in charge of the United States' relations with indigenous peoples. With Ely's aid, Ulysses enacts what he calls his peace policy. Just as he said regarding reconstruction during his presidential campaign, Ulysses wants peace. Hoping to achieve that with indigenous peoples, he establishes a 10-civilian strong board of Indian commissioners to provide oversight for the Bureau of Indian Affairs. He then actually listens to their advice.
Starting point is 00:32:52 At their recommendation, the president ends the use of political appointees for Indian agents. He'll be hiring those who want peace, which often means Quakers. I don't want to overstate or romanticize. The peace policy is far from perfect. Between being pressed to areas of poor soil for farming, called reservations, and not wanting to lose their way of life, Native Americans aren't on board with quote-unquote civilizing. Meanwhile, white Americans are flocking west, pushing indigenous peoples off their ancestral lands and expecting the U.S. Army to protect them in the process. Oof, so much more to say here, but for I think the third time today, let me just say,
Starting point is 00:33:32 there's a lot going on at once, and we'll circle back to these stories properly in later episodes. For now, let's stick with the Grant administration. In 1872, Ulysses goes up for re-election. But just like his entire presidency, the election will be rocked by scandal. This one involves VP Skyler Colfax and a railroad construction company known as Credit Mobilier of America. It seems that for the past five years or so, the guys over at Credit Mobilier have been swindling the federal government. They've been overbilling for railroad construction costs on federally funded builds and pocketing the extra cash. But it gets worse. Back in 1867, a few congressmen got suspicious of
Starting point is 00:34:15 the company's inflated costs and tried to launch an investigation. The company's directors couldn't have that. So they bribed at least a dozen congressmen with discounts on stock in the company and the investigation died. Then Speaker of the House, Skyler Colfax, was one of the men who accepted the bribes. Now in 1872, Ulysses learns about Skyler's part in the scam and dumps him from the presidential ticket.
Starting point is 00:34:41 Good call, Ulysses. But current Speaker of the House, James Blaine, won't let this scam go that easily. You think one guy losing the VP slot is enough? Not for James. He opens an actual investigation stating, quote, a charge of bribery of members is the gravest
Starting point is 00:35:00 that can be made in a legislative body. It seems to me that this charge demands prompt, thorough, and impartial investigation. Close quote. The Credit Mobilier affair almost outshines the election of 1872. But Ulysses wins with 55% of the popular vote and a slew of electoral votes
Starting point is 00:35:19 after his opponent dies and electors switch their votes. Seriously, the Electoral College can be so fascinating. Now he has to stare down another four years in the White House. As Ulysses begins his second term in office, things don't calm down. A financial crisis looms on the horizon. Now, like most economic crises, the impending downturn has
Starting point is 00:35:46 multiple domestic and international causes. I'll just give the broad strokes. For the last few years, U.S. investors have speculated wildly in the railroad industry. Hello, Credit Mobilier! And that bubble is ready to burst. In addition, there were huge property and business losses in the Great Chicago Fire in 1871 and the Boston Fire in 1872. Across the pond in Europe, the German Empire decided last year to stop minting silver coins, which has lowered demand for American silver exports. Then there's a financial crash in Vienna, whose ripple effects are felt even in the U.S. All of these setbacks combine into the perfect financial storm. But something happens in the fall of 1873 that takes this from a tropical squall to Category
Starting point is 00:36:33 5 hurricane. On September 18, 1873, Jay Koch and company declare bankruptcy. The death of this railroad investment firm sends Wall Street into a tailspin. Within weeks, bank reserves in New York City alone plummet from $50 million to $17 million. The New York Stock Exchange even closes for 10 days. This starts a full-blown depression across the country. Not a great setup for Ulysses' second-term agenda. But the general who didn't give up on the battlefield at Shiloh won't give up now. Ulysses meets with Ohio Senator John Sherman.
Starting point is 00:37:09 And yes, John is related to William Tecumseh. They're brothers. Anyway, the president and senator work together to pass the Specie Payment Resumption Act. It sounds fancy, but basically, it takes the U.S. back to having only gold-backed paper money, a.k.a. the gold standard, and constricts the money supply. It's pretty much the opposite of what a 21st century president might do,
Starting point is 00:37:33 but the hard-money president hopes this bill will curb the depression in the long run. Unfortunately, Ulysses can't wait and see. His new Treasury Secretary, Benjamin Bristow, has been cleaning house in his department, and he comes across yet another scandal. His new Treasury Secretary, Benjamin Bristow, has been cleaning house in his department, and he comes across yet another scandal. And this one will overshadow anything that's happened in the Grant administration. Let me tell you the whole story. In June, 1874, Ulysses names Benjamin Bristow
Starting point is 00:38:00 as Secretary of the Treasury. Ben's a Kentucky-born Republican who uses whatever government office he holds to promote African-American rights, including suffrage and universal desegregated education. On top of that, Battle of Shiloh veteran Ben has assigned himself the task of cleaning up government corruption.
Starting point is 00:38:19 He plans to, quote, purge the Republican Party of all rogues and to satisfy the people that we mean to have honest government, close quote. Ben gets to work right away, firing incompetent cronies and creating efficiency out of waste. And almost immediately, the Treasury Secretary notices large inconsistencies in whiskey tax collection reports. In October, Treasury Department investigators check out what's happening with the tax collectors in Missouri.
Starting point is 00:38:48 But everything looks clean. A little too clean. Ben smells a rat. On February 8th, 1875, St. Louis newspaperman George Fishback writes a letter to Ben. George claims, quote,
Starting point is 00:39:06 There's been much talk of the fraudulent whiskey traffic in the West. If the secretary wants to break up the powerful ring which exists here, I can give him the name of a man who will undertake to do it, and I will guarantee success. Close quote. As soon as Ben reads the letter, the portly secretary knows that this is the break he's been waiting for. Ben tells his assistant, I have been much troubled at the difficulties
Starting point is 00:39:30 of striking that St. Louis ring. Please send a dispatch to Mr. Fishback at once, asking him to telegraph the name to me and assuring him that I will set his friend at work. The secret investigator soon learns that John McDonald, the chief tax collector in St. Louis, initiated and currently runs the entire whiskey ring. Let me tell you a little bit about John. He's a Grant Administration appointed supervisor for internal revenue in Arkansas and Missouri. In fact, Ulysses himself gave John the job back in 1871. And since then, not-so-subtle John has been directing a tax evasion scheme telling everybody that President Grant knows about it and will pardon them if they're caught.
Starting point is 00:40:14 That's an outright lie, but John's conspirators are making too much money to question it. And their game's a pretty simple one. There's currently a 70-cent-per-gallon tax on whiskey. It's supposed to help refill federal coffers from the expensive civil war. But at St. Louis, whiskey distillers report only about one third of the gallons they produce. What happens to the 70 cents a gallon they would have paid in taxes? Well, the distillers pay 35 cents directly into the hands of tax collectors who happily write up false records of how much whiskey is being produced, and the liquor manufacturers
Starting point is 00:40:51 keep the other 35 cents for themselves. It's a win-win. Well, except for the U.S. Treasury. Back in 1871, John directed most of the money into Republican Party coffers or the hands of reporters who wrote glowing reviews of the president. But since the election of 1872, that hasn't happened as much. Now it's John making money hand over fist, all the while telling himself that, one, he won't get caught, and two, if he does, Ulysses will take care of him. But Ben Bristow is gunning for John and anyone else who's in on this fraud. Now, in the middle of this investigation, another scandal involving a Grant Administration cabinet member comes to light. It would be so much easier if the people finding ways to defraud the government of taxpayer dollars could all line up and take their turns one at a time, right?
Starting point is 00:41:41 Alas, that's not how it works. So, in April 1875, Ulysses has to ask Attorney General George Williams to resign. There's a well-substantiated rumor that George's wife, Kate, asked for and received a $30,000 bribe from merchants Pratt and Boyd. Then, miraculously, George dropped his investigation into their alleged crimes. Oh, and there's evidence that George has been writing personal checks against the government bank accounts under his purview. Whew, George and Kate know how to party. Too bad they don't know how to cover their tracks. George resigns, and the Williamses move back to Oregon.
Starting point is 00:42:21 But why am I telling you about the comparatively small Fry scandal involving a high-flying AG and his wife? Well, when George steps down, it allows Ulysses to appoint lawyer Edwards Pierpont as the new Attorney General. Edwards, a Yale-educated lawyer, has dubious judgment when it comes to hair and beard styles. Seriously, just Google Edwards Pierpont and you'll see what I mean. But that failing aside, Edwards has a long track record of going after corruption, just like Ben Bristow. The public takes notice of the improving character of the president's inner circle. Harper's Weekly writes that Ulysses is finally proving his commitment to, quote, good government and honest administration, close quote. But Ulysses' commitment
Starting point is 00:43:07 could be tested as Ben and Edwards team up and go straight for the heart of the whiskey ring. It's May 7th, 1875. Ulysses sits in his private office with Ben Bristow and Treasury Department solicitor, Bluford Wilson. The president listens intently as Ben and Bluford outline the entire Whiskey Ring operation in St. Louis. Their investigation has uncovered dozens of distillers and tax collectors,
Starting point is 00:43:37 all in collusion to defraud the government. Ulysses is appalled at the scope of the fraud and tells Ben and Bluford they have his, quote-unquote, hearty cooperation. The two grain men sigh in relief and finally realize their plans to raid the St. Louis operation in three days. Actually, Ben's investigation has found there are whiskey rings running the same scam as St. Louis in several cities. And of course there are. I mean, it didn't take a rocket scientist to come up with this
Starting point is 00:44:05 underreporting scheme, so it's no surprise that unscrupulous distillers and tax collectors in several cities are skimming like this. Anyway, the May 10 raids in St. Louis, Chicago, and Milwaukee go off without a hitch. A few weeks later, the zealous Treasury Secretary reports the findings of the raids to Ulysses. And it's not good. As Ben and Ulysses talk, the President shakes his head at how many people have been or probably will be arrested. He remarks to Ben,
Starting point is 00:44:34 Well, Mr. Bristow, there is at least one honest man in St. Louis on whom we can rely, John MacDonald. I know that because he is an intimate acquaintance. Ugh, Ben's heart sinks to his rather large stomach. He carefully explains to the overly trusting president that John McDonald is the mastermind behind the entire operation.
Starting point is 00:44:57 That hits the president like a sucker punch to the gut. But Ulysses proves his commitment to rooting out corruption. Ben later recalls that the president, quote, stated that McDonald has been a friend of his and has grievously betrayed not only that friendship, but the public. Close quote. Ulysses approves the arrest and firing of McDonald and everyone else on Ben's list. But the scandal isn't done yet. Here's the thing. Ben has known for a while that the whiskey ring in St. Louis has a protector in Washington, D.C. He's found several cryptic telegrams warning John McDonald to be on his guard. The anonymous notes are signed only,
Starting point is 00:45:37 SILF. The last one went out only one day before the successful raids, but Ben's investigators intercepted it. It read, quote, lightning will strike on Monday. Be prepared for it. Close quote. Ben just needs to find the author of these damning telegrams. He searches through the originals of the telegrams and finds that they are in Orville Babcock's handwriting. Forty-something, dark-haired, smooth-talking Orville served as Ulysses' aid to camp in the Civil War and has been his personal secretary since his first day in the White House. And these telegram originals prove he is neck deep in the whiskey ring fraud. Will Ulysses be willing to send his trusted friend and ally to the chopping block along with the other conspirators?
Starting point is 00:46:21 In July, Attorney Generals Edwards Pierpont and Secretary of State Hamilton Fish take the mountain of evidence against Orville to Ulysses. To say the blue-eyed president is shocked would be a major understatement. Honest and loyal to his core, Ulysses can't seem to grasp that many people lack those same values. But he sticks to his anti-corruption guns and tells Edwards to investigate Orville. If Babcock is guilty, there's no man who wants him so proven guilty as I do, for it is the greatest piece of traitorism to me that a man could possibly practice.
Starting point is 00:46:56 On August 10th, Ulysses publishes a letter in the newspapers with the same message. But Ulysses doesn't think that Orville is actually guilty. So yes, he authorizes an investigation, but he doesn't fire Oroville. Like I said, Ulysses trusts people to his core no matter how much they deserve it. But Ben's case against Oroville is airtight. In November, John McDonald gets convicted and sentenced to three years in prison. That does not bode well for Orville. On December 9th, he gets indicted on fraud and conspiracy charges. Orville's trial is set for February. After all this, Ulysses still believes in Orville's innocence. To him, it looks like Ben
Starting point is 00:47:38 Bristow has gotten a little overzealous and is going after Ulysses' friends for personal political points. Then the newspapers wrongly accuse Fred and Orville Grant, the president's son and brother, of taking whiskey ring money. And to be fair, the president has given out more than a few jobs to underqualified family members, so the public buys the story pretty easily. But it makes Ulysses go on the defensive. He loses his cool at a cabinet meeting and angrily declares he's heard enough talk like this from treasury officials and wanted it either stopped or proven true.
Starting point is 00:48:14 Ulysses thinks that like his brother and son, all of his friends are innocent and deserve his loyalty, but Ulysses is wrong. Want to learn how you can make smarter decisions with your money? Well, I've got the podcast for you. I'm Sean Piles, and I host NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast. On our show, we help listeners like you make the most of your finances. I sit down with NerdWallet's team of nerds,
Starting point is 00:48:40 personal finance experts in credit cards, banking, investing, and more. We answer your real-world money questions and break down the latest personal finance news. Thank you. Instead, we offer practical knowledge that you can apply in your everyday life. You'll learn about strategies to help you build your wealth, invest wisely, shop for financial products, and plan for major life events. And you'll walk away with the confidence you need to ensure that your money is always working as hard as you are. So turn to the Nerds to answer your real-world money questions and get insights that can help you make the smartest financial decisions for your life. Listen to NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Ever wondered what it's like to be in the room with
Starting point is 00:49:30 top Al-Qaeda terrorists plotting their next move? Do you want to know how the history of Islamic fundamentalist thought informs the way the world works today? Well then, dear listener, Conflicted is the podcast for you. I trace the epic battles between Muslims and the West. What are the Houthis' objectives in the Red Sea? It's a lesson to the rest of the Muslim world and the Arab world. Do not trust the Islamists. Hosted by me, Thomas Small, an author and filmmaker, and my good friend, Ayman Deen, an ex-Al-Qaeda jihadi turned MI6 spy.
Starting point is 00:50:04 Conflicted tells stories of the Islamic past and present to help you make sense of the world today. And now Conflicted Season 5 is being cooked up, coming to you very soon. And in the meantime, you can sign up to our Conflicted community to give you bonus episodes and access to our community hub on Discord. Subscribe to Conflicted wherever you get your podcasts. By February 1876,
Starting point is 00:50:42 Ulysses has serious misgivings about Orville Babcock's trial. Oh, he's not finally convinced of his old friend's guilt. No, Ulysses is worried that Orville will be convicted. He wants to intervene by testifying in person at Orville's trial. Don't worry, Ulysses' cabinet members talk him out of the idea. They point out that it might not look good for a president to testify on behalf of a person the federal government is prosecuting in the trial the press is covering relentlessly. Ulysses decides to give a deposition on Orville's behalf instead. Edwards and Ben agree to act as witnesses. On February 12th, Ulysses sits down with Edwards, Ben, and Chief Justice Morrison Waite,
Starting point is 00:51:28 who will notarize this deposition. Orville's attorney, William Cook, starts questioning the president. How long have you known General Babcock? William asks. Ulysses answers that he met Orville Babcock in 1863, and Orville has been an intimate friend since 1864. William continues with his questions. As your private secretary, please state what were his general duties. Ulysses lists several. He received my mails, opened my letters, and referred them to the appropriate departments, submitting to me all such as required any instructions or answer from myself. William nods and asks, William now gets to the heart of his questioning.
Starting point is 00:52:21 Did Orville ever try to stop the Whiskey Ring investigations? The lawyer asks, did General Babcock at or about that time say anything to you with reference to such investigations and to your knowledge did he in any way undertake to prevent them? I have no recollection of him saying anything about that. Certainly he did not intercede with me to prevent them. Now this isn't technically perjury. Yes, Orville tipped off his contacts in St. Louis plenty of times, but Ulysses didn't know about it until later. William asks one last question. Have you ever seen anything in the conduct of General Babcock which indicated to your mind that he was in any way connected with the whiskey ring in St. Louis. Ulysses gives a one-word reply,
Starting point is 00:53:06 never. On February 24th, Orville Babcock is acquitted. The president's trust in his personal secretary is vindicated, but it won't last. A few days after the trial, Ulysses gets a letter which proves that Orville was involved in the Black Friday scheme back in 1869. This knowledge, coupled with whiskey ring evidence, finally opens Ulysses' eyes to Orville's true nature.
Starting point is 00:53:34 Treasury Solicitor Bluford Wilson observes, Quote, The president then, for the first time, comprehended that if Babcock had betrayed him in the Black Friday transactions, he was quite capable of betraying him in connection with the whiskey frauds. Close quote. Ulysses finally fires Orville as his personal secretary and shunts him to a low-grade government position. So Orville gets his due, kind of. And Ulysses seems to move on. Except for one thing. The president has gotten really frustrated with Ben Bristow during the Whiskey Ring investigation. Ben keeps indicting his friends.
Starting point is 00:54:12 It doesn't really matter to Ulysses that his friends are totally guilty. To him, it just looks like Ben has been trying to score political points by harassing people. The mood sours between Ulysses and his number one anti-corruption partner, Ben. It doesn't help that, as whiskey ring trials continue, yet another one of the president's cabinet members ends up in hot water. Back in 1870, Secretary of War William Belknap got authority to name agents to man Indian trading posts out west. William's wife, Carrie, worked out a deal with her friend Caleb Marsh that he would take a post at Fort Sill and they would share in the substantial profits. But the current agent at Fort Sill, John Evans, wouldn't leave.
Starting point is 00:54:53 So Caleb and Carrie convinced John that he could keep the post by paying them $12,000 a year. Caleb and Carrie split the kickback 50-50. But this is the 19th century, so you can bet Carrie's husband, William, knew about the money. In fact, I know for sure that he did because when Carrie died in 1870, Caleb and John continued the payments to William and his new wife, Amanda,
Starting point is 00:55:18 who's also Carrie's younger sister. I know, this is starting to sound a little days of our lives, but I promise there are no evil twins in this story. Well, the kickback scheme continued smoothly for William and Amanda until February, 1876, when Congress launched an investigation into William and his trading post, Malthusians.
Starting point is 00:55:37 Once the whole fraud comes to light in early March, Congress has enough evidence to impeach William. Yes, Congress can impeach cabinet members since they are, according to the Constitution, quote, civil officers of the United States, close quote. William does not want to go through an impeachment and trial. So on March 2nd, the tearful Secretary of War goes to the White House and begs Ulysses to let him resign. Without thinking through the consequences or discussing it with other cabinet members, Ulysses agrees. He writes an acceptance letter, which reads, the request that your resignation be accepted immediately is received,
Starting point is 00:56:16 and the same is hereby accepted with regret. Congress moves forward with its impeachment process, but William gets acquitted on the technicality that Congress can't impeach someone who has left their post already. The Grant administration will face several more small-scale scandals as the Whiskey Ring trial continues in 1876. This salacious story captures America's attention. Whiskey Ring members in St. Louis alone stole at least 1.6 million. The investigation leads to 238 people indicted and 110 of them convicted as part of this fraud. But the success of rooting out corruption doesn't heal the breach between Ulysses and Ben Bristow. In May, Ben decides he can't work for the blue-eyed president anymore. On the 15th of that month, he writes a resignation letter and hands it to Ulysses
Starting point is 00:57:10 as the president gets into his carriage for an afternoon ride. Ulysses takes it, looks Ben in the eye without saying anything, then drives away. Damn, that's cold. As the president rides, he reads Ben's letter, which claims that the Treasury Secretary never had any ambition to build his political clout by hurting the president or his friends. Ben states that he knows some people have peddled this version of events to Ulysses and argues, quote,
Starting point is 00:57:36 "...utterly false as I know such statements to be, it is painfully apparent that they are not so regarded by you." Close quote. Ulysses accepts Ben's resignation without the grace and regret he extended to the bribe-accepting Secretary of War, William. After Ben resigns, Congress calls on him to testify in their investigation of whiskey ring connections in the Capitol. Ben cites what you and I would call executive privilege. He doesn't use the term, but he basically says any conversation between the president and his cabinet is confidential.
Starting point is 00:58:17 But Ulysses doesn't want or need that kind of protection. The president wants, not only that you may answer all questions, but wish that all the members of my cabinet may also be called upon. Damn, that's confidence. Or could it be something else? Either a clear conscience or hubris? With all these scandals and frauds going on right under his nose, is Ulysses really innocent? Does he deserve any of the culpability and the rampant dishonesty and graft that plagued his tenure? To answer that, let's hear from Ulysses' friends. I'll start with Tecumseh Sherman. Back in the war, Ulysses and Kempf were BFFs. But the relationship has cooled since the blue-eyed general became the blue-eyed president. And Kempf can't stomach the corruption he sees in Washington.
Starting point is 00:59:03 He thinks the low-paying government offices breeds bribery and theft. Kump wants Ulysses to do something about it. Quote, Grant is not blameless. He could have given an impetus in the right direction in 1869. Meant to, but saw or thought he saw the danger and made up his mind to let things run. The result was inevitable.
Starting point is 00:59:26 Close quote. Tecumseh cannot imagine that Ulysses stays spotless in the dust devil of scandal that swirls around Washington. Does everyone agree with Tecumseh's take on the situation? No. Many of Ulysses' friends question the president's penchant for trusting the untrustworthy, but they offer explanations with a more positive spin. One says that Ulysses will avoid confronting guilting parties.
Starting point is 00:59:50 Quote, He disliked controversy when in conversation. Close quote. Another explains that the president treads carefully around friends. To quote him, He regarded the feelings of others carefully. David Dreyer defends Ulysses' innocence in the scandals that plagued his administration. In talking specifically about the whiskey ring, David states,
Starting point is 01:00:13 his great mistake was in trusting men who did know, and this after their connection with the ring was a matter of common information. Grant was an honest man and implicitly trusted those he believed to be his friends. Looking at Ulysses' life in general, Methodist minister Otis Tiffany put it best, quote, Absolutely incapable of servility, he could not suspect other men of fawning sycophancy. The soul of honor and manliness himself, a man who was a stranger to indirection and falsehood, General Grant could not comprehend
Starting point is 01:00:45 how men could be dishonorable. It will take until almost the end of Ulysses' life for him to gain a little skepticism and discernment. A few years later, a friend will ask Ulysses about the biggest heartaches of his very full life. The blue-eyed old man will reply, to be deceived by a friend. President Ulysses Grant remains popular despite the frauds that rocked his presidency. Walt Whitman writes, a mere plain man, no art, no poetry, a common trader, money maker, tanner, farmer, general for the
Starting point is 01:01:26 republic, president following. Nothing heroic, as the authorities put it, and yet the greatest hero. Oof. With praise like that, it is no wonder some people want Ulysses to run for a third term in the White House. But the general-turned-president has had enough. So Ulysses is done with Washington, D.C. and Reconstruction. But we're not. It's time for us to follow Hiram Revels, Robert Smalls, and other political pioneers as they become the first Black Americans
Starting point is 01:01:58 to take seats in U.S. Congress. Their stays will be short, but you'll have to wait two weeks for that story. status. Jake Gilbreth, James G. Bledsoe, Janie McCreary, Jeff Marks, Jennifer Moods, Jennifer Magnolia, Jeremy Wells, Jessica Poppock, Joe Dobis, John Frugledugel, John Boovey, John Keller, John Oliveros, John Radlavich, John Schaefer, John Sheff, Jordan Corbett, Joshua Steiner, Justin M. Spriggs, Justin May, Kristen Pratt, Karen Bartholomew, Cassie Conecco, Kim R., Kyle Decker, Lawrence Neubauer, Linda Cunningham, Mark Ellis, Matthew Mitchell, Matthew Simmons, Melanie Jan, Nick Seconder, Nick Caffrel, Noah Hoff, Owen Sedlak, Paul Goeringer, Randy Guffrey, Reese Humphries-Wadsworth, Rick Brown, Sarah Trawick, Samuel Lagasse, Sharon Theisen,
Starting point is 01:03:12 Sean Baines, Steve Williams, Creepy Girl, Tisha Black, and Zach Jackson. From the creators of the popular science show with millions of YouTube subscribers comes the MinuteEarth podcast. Every episode of the show dives deep into a science question you might not even know you had. But once you hear the answer, you'll want to share it with everyone you know. Why do rivers curve? Why did the T-Rex have such tiny arms? And why do so many more kids need glasses now than they used to? Spoiler alert, it isn't screen time. Our team of scientists digs into the research and breaks it down into a short, entertaining explanation, jam-packed with science facts and terrible puns.
Starting point is 01:03:48 Subscribe to MinuteEarth wherever you like to listen.

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