History That Doesn't Suck - Epilogue to Volume 2

Episode Date: November 11, 2018

"There were no Canadians hurt in the making of this last volume." This is not a story. This is our second epilogue! Greg, Josh, and Cielle hash about the great birthing pains of launching the new podcast, "Office Hours," the HTDS podcast in general, and what they consider to be the big takeaways from volume II (episodes 16-27). Enjoy! ____ Connect with us on HTDSpodcast.com and go deep into episode bibliographies and book recommendations join discussions in our Facebook community get news and discounts from The HTDS Gazette  come see a live show get HTDS merch or become an HTDS premium member for bonus episodes and other perks. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. From the creators of the popular science show with millions of YouTube subscribers comes the MinuteEarth podcast. Every episode of the show dives deep into a science question you might not even know you had, but once you hear the answer, you'll want to share it with everyone

you know. Why do rivers curve? Why did the T-Rex have such tiny arms? And why do so many more kids need glasses now than they used to? Spoiler alert, it isn't screen time. Our team of scientists digs into the research and breaks it down into a short, entertaining explanation, jam-packed with science facts and terrible puns. Subscribe to MinuteEarth wherever you like to listen. Welcome to History That Doesn't Suck. I'm your professor, Greg Jackson, and I'd like to tell you a story. Today, however, I'm pleased to share an interview with a special guest versus my normal storytelling. Regular listeners of HTDS know that we do this occasionally to recap and give some broader context of an era

explored over a series of preceding narrative episodes. If you're new to HTDS, welcome, and you may want to jump back a couple of episodes to hear the stories leading up to this epilogue. Now, on with the show. Welcome to History That Doesn't Suck. I'm your professor, Greg Jackson. And today, we're just going to chill a little bit. No story. It's Josh. Josh, say what up. How's it going, everybody? And CL. Hey. Oh, what? No. Hey, guys. Nope. I know. You guys, I'm sorry to disappoint. Maybe it should be like hello or something cool. Yeah, more than hey. Come on. I think you should go with salutations. I don't think I'm going to say salutations. That sounds a little

Charlotte's Web. Salutations, everybody. That is very Charlotte's Web. Thank you for bringing. That is very Charlotte's Web. Thank you for bringing me back to, I don't even know what grade that would have been, but elementary school days. Yeah. All that said. The team's all here. The team is all here. We have finished what we're dubbing Volume 2.

Yep. The Early Republic. Of course, we could take the Early Republic straight up to the Civil War, but that's not how long we want each volume to be. And it's certainly appropriate to cut it off as we go into the Jackson presidency. So, you know, we feel like we're at a point where it's time to kind of just hit pause, take stock of some things. There's a few things we'd like to draw to your attention about some of the past episodes. Some housekeeping. Exactly. Some corrections we

want to make that listeners pointed out to us. That's right. Let's be clear. Pronunciation. Yes. No big corrections. No one wrote in and said George Washington's actually still alive

that wouldn't be a correction it wouldn't that'd be a wrong assertion i think that's a word that came out weird no it's right it's a word that'd be a great conspiracy theory i think we should explore it it's still alive is george still alive there you go it's it's the next sad zombie uh you know graphic novel sort of thing like those are trying to die out i know they are yeah yeah yeah the zombie kind of like scene the the walking dead really brought it in strong and it was it was definitely solid good good story they should have killed that way earlier i mean it's wrapping up right now i think are we going into analysis of walking dead let's keep it on pop culture everybody it's okay yeah uh now it's now the podcast of pop culture that doesn't suck no but we're hey i got a great

transition nail it do it you see here we pop culture company who has multiple podcasts on pop culture that has not allowed us to... No, I've tried. It's okay. I've tried to segue so hard. We get where you're going. So in terms of housekeeping, we're going to go ahead and start with our harrowing past week. Harrowing is the right word.

Yes. Thank you, iTunes. Just call it like you see it. So look, for those of you who follow us on social media, which is, in fact, the minority. I don't know how we ended up this way. I think most podcasts are the other way around where they have a big following on social media and fewer listeners. Yeah. I mean, we release a new episode and within two hours we have more downloads than we do followers by a long shot.

Yeah. By a long shot, which, of course, is perfectly fine. I mean, I guess we'll go ahead and mention if you would like to follow us to keep up with some stuff. Please. By all means. The history that doesn't suck. Search stuff. Please, by all means. The History That Doesn't Suck. Search it on, gee, frick, Twitter. Facebook, Instagram, Twitter.

We also have a private Facebook group, community group. Yeah, feel free to join it. It's lots of fun. That's right. All that said, so we, as we've noted on our social media accounts, we have been months in the making here. We've been preparing a second podcast, History That Doesn't Suck, presents Office Hours with Professor Greg Jackson. I think that's the full

name, right? Office Hours is how we're referring to it. But it has been so long in the coming. Each of these episodes we kind of wanted to discuss basically to a degree kind of what we're doing right here, right now. Yeah. But we wanted to, in response to some of our good and kind and wonderful patrons who help keep the podcast going, by the been releasing a private, um, series of podcasts to them where we just discuss the episodes and, and kind of some back and forth with those patrons. It was kind of decided that, you know what, you guys should do this publicly. This is, this is good stuff.

Don't bury it. Okay. So we went ahead and did that. We launched onto YouTube. Let's go ahead and throw that out. We are on the YouTube. That's right. I think we have an incredible dozen subscribers. Yeah, we're in the double digits.

It's a big deal. Not to brag. I figured it would actually kind of be that. Anyhow, this gets to our whole debacle here. So we're months in the making josh is learning a whole new skill set as we go into video learning how to edit learning how to yeah work between different programs both you're doing a great job with it by the way thanks you are dude well i got a long way to go on video well first your way way more of yourself. And that's how this whole team works, which is part of why this podcast works.

Why we work, yeah. The way it does. We're very demanding of ourselves. We are. And we're very forgiving of each other. Yeah. But those standards are high. So after all the painstaking effort, time, figurative blood spilt on the altar here.

Yeah. First of all, just filming slash recording our roundtable discussions of previous History That Doesn't Suck episodes. We went back to number one and gave deeper analysis on everything in volume one. That's where we've left off at this point, right? Yeah. So, uh, I mean, we, we did go a little less in detail than we will in future, uh, office hour episodes because we were trying to kind of like catch up a little bit, but then we did some interviews. So each episode starts with us discussing history that doesn't suck episodes, giving deeper analysis. And then i interview someone who i think is quite fascinating oh we've got great interviews amazing freaking awesome so i mean perfect like

connections to the content as well yeah and and in the spirit of to a degree i mean you don't see it as overtly in history that doesn't suck but one of the reasons behind me getting this crazy idea that I should not have a life, um, and launch this podcast. And now you two have been roped into it and thank you for coming along on the ride. But it was that I don't think there's enough venues.

Not that there aren't amazing history teachers out there. I like to think I'm okay from time to time. Uh, that, that joke felt more like a brag. there. I like to think I'm okay from time to time. That joke felt more like a brag. You're all right, Greg. You can't see my face. As a former student, you're okay. Sure, sure. Thanks. Yeah. Thanks, Josh. Good grief.

I thought there needed to be a more lively, fun, and connecting history to the presentation of history. So, launched this podcast. And the people that we're interviewing for Office Hours, these are all people that I think align with that agenda. They can connect it to the here and now. So, episode one of office hours we have distinguished professor of history eric hinder rocker from the university of utah and who wrote the book on the boston literally wrote the yeah the book boston's massacre which i certainly referred to uh in addition to the primary sources as i was writing episode Man, those are some bygone memories now. Yeah. Oh. That's a long time ago.

It's over a year ago. Is it over episode three? I mean, because we launched October of last year. This is basically the one- Year anniversary. I mean, yeah, it's a generous one year, but in some ways, this is a nice little, this episode here is the opportunity for us

to kind of reflect yeah reflect give you some of our thoughts yeah on on the past year all that said eric was phenomenal i mean i thought we had such a fun discussion and this is the episode being episode one that josh uploaded to submit to itunes because itunes the great gatekeeper of podcasts, whatever server you're listening to, maybe you're doing pod, Josh. Podbean. Sure. Geez, there's so many out there. Point being, there's a good chance that you might not be listening through the podcast

app on a smartphone, but nonetheless, you're listening through iTunes. Yeah. A third party. You may be using a third party app but they're pulling their library from itunes most of the time some are some exceptions like stitcher they actually produce their own library but for the most part yeah but about 70 i mean looking at our statistics about 70 to 80 percent we were shown aggregate numbers if you're looking for a modern day example of a monopoly yeah exactly this is it like itunes has of a monopoly. Yeah, exactly. This is it.

iTunes has got a monopoly. I know we haven't gotten this far in history. That doesn't suck. So maybe this joke will land with everybody, but Teddy Roosevelt would not be digging iTunes. He'd be trying to tear that into multiple pieces. Not trying. He'd be doing it. So we submit to iTunes and, um, I feel like I'm dominating Josh. You want to jump in? I mean, the pain you felt, we all felt,

but I think you took it personal. I might be a little too fired up still to comment, but I'll try. the better. You should tell this. No. So for those who don't know, you submit a podcast to iTunes and you wait for approval,

right? Which we knew from pre you know previously uploading we've done this we've been here we kind of know the time frame we submitted with plenty of time ahead of time and uh anyway we're all set to have the podcast release on Sunday at midnight so Saturday at midnight right or we should or we should have been. Or we should have been. No, we were ready. No, yeah, yeah, yeah. We had done our part.

I was going to say, no, we were ready. The hours put into that week of- Countless hours. I can't even explain- I wish people could see your face right now, Josh. I can't even explain to you- Honestly, it's too bad we aren't putting this on YouTube. The amount of time spent on videos, uploads.

We're not even talking about the YouTube side yet. That's a whole nother animal. Anyway, so we submit our podcast. We submit office hours and it gets rejected. For being- Irrelevant content. Or spam. Yeah, irrelevant slash spam.

That was the category. Yeah. Yeah. We were floored literally literally i call greg and i say so i don't think we're gonna hit our deadline to launch the show and greg's like why and i'm like uh itunes just rejected the podcast anyway well and we know the stuff you know we know the dimensions of the the logo And we know the stuff. You know, we know the dimensions of the logo art. We know, you know, everything you have to do with your RSS feed. We know this stuff so backwards and forwards. That's why I was just utterly floored.

Oh, and I had triple checked like 40 times. I triple checked again after. I feel like I wouldn't say I could do this in my sleep, but I could do it without you, Josh. It would take me a lot longer. My point being, it's not even my thing. Like you handle all the tech stuff. you like i wouldn't say i could do this in my sleep but i could do it without you josh it would take me a lot longer my point being it's not even my thing like you handle all the tech stuff right and if we're so deep into it that me on the periphery of that could handle it that's what i'm saying it was taken care of in your sleep behind your back onehanded. And so to have them be like, no go for you guys. With no explanation.

They had to... Well, no explanation. We're irrelevant. Irrelevant, apparently. And spam. So we wrote them back. We did. We wrote them back.

We said, hey, what the... No, I'm just kidding. It was worded a little differently. It was a little more professional than that. No, CL and Greg, they wound me in. Because I'm the Sam Adams on this podcast. I was ready to burn it down to the ground.

We talked you down off the ledge. I was like, I'm going down there to iTunes and give them a piece of my mind. No, yes, we responded to them and basically it was a waiting game. So that's why we're telling you now, that's why we didn't hit the deadline. Yep. Because we were waiting and then they responded monday morning about 12 hours after we had released the most recent well recent before this one uh that would be episode 27 last founding fathers yep right so we had a great opening to pitch office hours to all of you you know to make you aware of it i guess would

be the better way to put that and you know josh went in and cut that out we just copied in a the original standard yeah opening because we missed you know office hours coming live by about 12 hours yeah but you know and by that point i, well over a thousand people have downloaded it. So it's not like. And we kind of want to do one big push, one big release, right? So we didn't want to be like, okay, well, it's live on YouTube, but it's not live on podcasts, but it's not live on the third party app you may be using. And we want everyone to be able to be aware of it at the same time. And we want everyone to feel like they can access it yeah at any point right you can check it out on your

podcast then you can go home and check out the video or you know it's available everywhere all at once i i loved itunes i mean we don't have the the email of i can't state it verbatim but i did love their response the word apologize was in there they didn't apologize for how they labeled it but it was something like we we apologize for any confusion over the uh the last response your podcast is now live yeah like oh i think our our email was something to the effect of, so please explain. A PhD in history interviews another PhD in history about his book with an academic press on one of the most important things that ever happened in American history. Connecting it to now-day relevance. Please expound on how this is irrelevant or please tell us how we can better demonstrate our relevancy to you sincerely

or something go flank yourself no i'm not i'm not this again it was much more professional than this is why we don't let josh do the writing that's why i don't send emails that's right and they yeah they quickly responded and said you're live. No, I think that's as close as one gets to an acknowledgement of we have that. We're sorry, yeah. Yeah, from iTunes. So it is live, but then we start getting the emails that, sure, it's there, but it's not playing. It's not all there. So there are four episodes uploaded right now.

So episode one is the interview with, again, all of them have the roundtable discussion with the three of us having our brilliant witty banter. Of course. Yes. But then the interview. So the first one, Professor Eric and then Major Denny Fry. Denny Fry, Special Forces. So we talked about the military aspect of the american revolution militia yeah and then um ben park uh professor at sam houston university very intellectual discussion on but accessible oh of course always accessible yeah and we talked

about the different identities of americans during the revolution he he has written the book on that yeah so and then uh episode four i uh sat down with the current lieutenant governor of the state of utah which is where we're at um so hence you know you're you might see a little more University of Utah officials. I mean, you know, it's the local university things, but this is where we are. Hey, wherever you're listening, I know we have listeners in all 50 states. So if there's someone who you think would be an interesting connection to an episode and you think you could help us make that happen, you know, by all means, connect us. Yeah, let's know.

I mean, we interviewed ben via skype yeah via skype uh out of houston so you know we're happy to do the same with like please do not hesitate to reach out to us yeah we will do our everything to make it work yeah so those four episodes are there but you know not everyone's seen Apparently, some are just seeing episode one. So all that said, I'd hope by the time you're downloading this, that all of Apple's, all the worms have been worked out of this Apple, shall we say? Yeah. We'll hope that they can fix their glitches on their end. We've been mildly frustrated. Mildly.

Just leave it there, Josh. Leave it there. So, yeah's it's been a week it's been man it just felt like like you're in the starting blocks about to race and it's like someone just comes up and sucker punches you right as no yeah like the analogy i was given these guys all week was i feel like i've been running a race for so long and I just tripped at the finish line. No. Yeah, you said that. Then I fired back.

No, it's more like Disney's Cool Runnings. Child of the 80s here. Yeah. Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. And John Candy. Come on. Right.

You get tripped up by the runner next to you. By the runner next to you. Yeah. And in this analogy, that runner is itunes more like where itunes is the bobsled for us to slide down the track well now that we have bastardized uh a favorite movie of cool childhood um yeah that is our itunes saga it's been quite the up and down here for us in this past week. Which wanted to make everybody aware. But yes, it is there.

So you're probably best off just searching, if you are using Apple especially, just searching History That Doesn't Suck. Because if you search for that, you will find both History That Doesn't Suck, our year-old show at this point. And you also find Office hours uh listed there so if you would like a deeper analysis on any of your your old favorites you know reconnecting with those revolutionaries and frankly i really i i feel um honored i i can't think of a better word um i kind of sounds like a like i'm giving some sort of cheesy prom speech, but really I just feel honored that the people I've interviewed thus far, from the academic side to the military to the lieutenant governor,

that these people would sit down with me and give me their time. And I thought they had some great things to say. They're just stellar interviews. Really interesting. Really great perspectives. Yeah. Um, there's just stellar interviews. Really interesting. Really great perspectives. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

I think we've, um, we we've regaled the people with, if that's not a good enough commercial for you to go watch the show or listen, then why are you listening to us now? Josh, you still come across with the angry.

Apparently Greg and I did not calm Josh down enough. No, we didn't. I'm calm. I'm calm. If anybody knows a quicker way to export video, please email me. That's the last thing I was going to say. Okay. All right.

Our video tech's out there. There we go. There's got to be somebody that listens to us that knows i'm sure who probably won't reach out i will only acknowledge that that's a possibility josh because video is a new uh realm for you when it comes to audio i would put you up against i mean come on people listening to this podcast have heard the sound quality. Oh, yeah. I know my proficiency in audio. Yeah.

I just want to speed up my proficiency with video. I get it. And if there's anybody who has higher skills than me, I'd love to learn it at your hands. Hey, and you know what? Let's actually just go ahead and mention Josh is freelancing, right? I am. I've started a freelance business. I'm editing other people's podcasts slash audio.

Yeah. Audio design freelancer. And the customers are well pleased. They are. And I'm getting clients lined up. Sorry, you were saying your website. Go ahead. Oh, no. The website name, I'm deciding between two of them at the moment. This is fresh. This is real fresh. This is real fresh like i've only so like if this interests someone listening we'll put it on a social media so and yet another exciting reason to go and you feel free you can you can email it history doesn't suck to get a hold of me like there's no you don't have to like a personal email or anything anyway well hey let's um what what do you say we get to those little corrections, huh? Yeah, let's do it.

Let's do it. I'm excited to address this. So I want to say it's really cool as the podcast has built and, you know, I wish that there was a way for us to get, I guess no podcast has an exact handle on, on the number of listeners. We just see the downloads. And it is again, humbling to see that, you know, we released a new episode,

every state in the union and multiple countries, multiple countries, specifically Canada, Britain, well, basically Western Europe, Western Europe, Britain, Ireland, France, well, basically Western Europe. Western Europe. Britain, Ireland, France, Germany, and Australia. Australia.

Australia's super strong. So the strong, the top three. The top three would be our fellow previous colonials. We've got Canada, Australia, New Zealand's pretty strong. But then back to the mother country of Britain. So those are all pretty strong. All that said, one of the great things about getting to this point is that if we don't pronounce something exactly the way you do locally,

we get an email. So that said. Which we welcome, by the way. Yes. Oh, absolutely. No, I was stoked because i mean look i'll tell you as a historian uh well as an academic there's nothing more terrifying than writing something and then finding out that that there's an error and this is as much as every academic book you get so if you get a book from published by an academic press and i'm not putting down something that's published by harper collins or or a more popular press but if it's published

by say harvard or you know lsu press oxford yeah well even uh you know it's less prestigious like university of fill in the blank state press. University of North Carolina is what's coming to mind. I've read a couple of books from them this week. Perfect. Perfect. Yeah. It's not Oxford, but the fact that it is coming out of a university, that means that book,

I mean, I guess I shouldn't say I can guarantee you this, but something is very wrong if this isn't the case. It means that book has been, the manuscript before it was published was read by three different experts in the field in a, what we call the double blind situation, meaning they do not, the author doesn't know who those other experts are. The press seeks out other experts. And then those experts don't know who submitted the manuscript. Now, of course, these can become small niche worlds. So maybe people can be like, it's one of six people or only Dan uses commas that way, but you know, it's, it's as anonymous

as possible. So really these things are extremely vetted, but you know, things happen. Mistakes are made. Yeah. Typos. One of my more favorite ones, and of course I'm not giving names here, but an academic I know, favorite, I feel so badly for this person. Not even go with the he, she. Sure. I guess a negation in a sentence didn't show up oh no yeah it should have been i don't remember what what the factoid was but you know it said x is what is y instead of x is not kill lots of people instead of don't kill lots of people oh my goodness um so you know small things

like that creep in and again i'm not going to name names, but as we were writing episodes, I think this was before CL was quite into the inner circles. But Josh, you remember how many times we'd be communicating like, dude, I'm at an impasse. Here's this super prestigious book and the date disagrees with this super prestigious other. And we would try to decide what, yeah. And so of course, you know, I, I do what I do. I look for more sources to see who corroborates and gets corroborated. The real thing is trying to find a primary source, but on rare instances, um, those primary sources might only be in an archive on the other side of the country. Well, I don't have $2,000 laying around

to get a flight, a hotel, access. Nor time. Exactly. Yeah. You know, to go check that myself. So I have to rely on these. Secondary sources. Yes, which are excellent.

And, you know, honestly, it kind of reminded me of grading. When you have an A paper, man, I can grade an A term paper in minutes. That's why mine always came back so fast. That's why they came back so fast. Because when they're good, you know, you just fly through them, right? You do. You fly through it.

It gets into the nitty and gritty, though, once you fall out of A range. Even if we're just talking about a solid B paper, you know, distinguishing between a B minus and a B, this stuff starts to, you know, this is now scalpel work instead of it being one big hue with the ax. So. The point we're trying to make. Sorry. The point we're trying to make is that. Thank you. It happens. Yeah, it happens. Wow, yeah, I totally went off there. My apologies.

No, it's fine. And so I know it's going to happen on the podcast, right? If it's going to make it through academic press, it's good grief. We're going to do it a lot. Yeah. Yeah. You know, such things will happen. So three things that we'd like to point out.

First off, going back to episode 12. So this is actually volume one. I would think we won't probably have things to say about an earlier volume in future episodes like this, but you never know. Yeah, we'll see. What the listeners say. I just guessed that

because I think we've hit a critical mass to where we have so many more listeners now than we did when we were in the earlier episodes i think there'll be people that will catch up and and you know that will find us and start from the beginning and well and if we have their questions yeah we'll we'll we'll mention something i just i'm talking in a statistical sense like the critical mass if if there was something egregious and you know we would have downloaded thousands of times chances are someone would have caught it so episode 12 an american judas betrays and nathaniel green saves i think it was that one we got a message i tried to track down the person if you're listening

hey a big thanks to you uh she was from or was it's not like she's past tense. She's from New York. So New York listener. And I referred to West Point as being further upstate or upstate, something to that effect. In upstate New York. Yeah. And she said, not upstate, friend. Not upstate. There's the correction.

Mia Culpa. Yeah. On maps, as someone who has spent a whopping three days flying through New York City in tourist mode, I certainly do not know how the locals feel about it. As far as I can distinguish on maps, I was under the impression it would be referred to as upstate. So my bad. And I appreciate that. And as I read it, even if on maps, I'm not trying to say she's wrong by any means, but from what I'm seeing on maps, it still looks to me like it should technically fall up there.

And the way I'm guessing it cuts is as a native Southern Californian, maybe it's changed. I've lived my adult life in Utah at this point, but I know that in the eighties and nineties, no one would say SoCal in Southern California. Like that was a dead giveaway. You were not a Southern Californian. And it was the quickest way to get under the skin of, uh, of a Southern Californian was to say, Oh, you're from SoCal? No, not. California.

It has a name, son. You will say the whole name. So I completely get that. And we just want to note that. Episode, moving along, episode 20. What did we call that one? A Wolf by the Ears. Oh, that's a great episode. It sure is.

Um, it's where we talk Gabriel's rebellion and, the rise of cotton. Cotton becomes King. Yeah. We talked the rise of the interstate slave trade. Oh man, that's,

that's a heavy, good one. Yeah. Yeah. Good in a, like heavy, heavy and you're sad sort of way afterward. Um, man, I, well, we, we, we won't get into Gabriel just yet. Maybe we'll talk about a little bit later,

but, uh, in this one, Isaac, thank you. Isaac from Virginia. See, I was looking for the name of the New York listener. I'm just going to find it. But all that said isaac from virginia pointed out that when i referred to the i i said county of hen how did i say it you said henrico i said henrico yeah and uh that's not how they say it it's well watch me probably i'll get another email from isaac no you tried to correct it you still said wrong so let's just note that i don't know how to pronounce this county's name but my best attempt he spelled it phonetically as rye so in ryko with my super californian accent there i know we just have to own that all of us are from west of the rock all of us are all of us and we've spent the majority of our lives west of the rockies i lived a whopping 12 months

east of the mississippi so well yeah i i had two years in massachusetts new hampshire and that and i i think some listeners could probably as i say that go oh well that explains some of the details on boston um but yeah we've we're mostly i I mean, Southwestern Americans. Lots of time in Mexico, but that doesn't do much for me. No, not in this context. Your Spanish is excellent. Thank you. That's right.

So then to episode 24, here's our last one. This was from Granny to Old Ironsides. I'm pretty sure it was 24. But I said Mo-Me River. And thank you to Sean in Ohio who let us know that it's Ma-Me River. And again, I've probably still pronounced incorrectly. My best attempt there, Sean. And thank you again for bringing this to our attention.

My French, I think, weighed in on that M-A-U. A-U in French is is oh so that's probably it happens more often than you might think great greg will slip into a french mode yeah well and josh you you know this i mean you're fluent in spanish when you are bilingual oh just it just screws you up yeah too partly because you no, even when you're reading in your native language, vowels don't, they're forever changed. I'll look at a set of vowels and think, there are four different ways to say that. I wonder which one it is.

Oh, especially when a third language lands in there. Yeah. Then you're just. Then you're toast. Oh, you're toast. Yeah. Yep. Can't even read. Couldn't even read before it definitely can't so i think that was our way of trying to be like oh look we speak multiple languages so don't hate us for bad pronunciation yeah yeah we'll go with that yeah sure i like no but it to round this all out i just want to

again say thank you so much everyone everyone who wrote in on these. I mean, they might be small, but I think they matter. I want this podcast to be so insanely accurate. I mean, I love that our corrections are- Pronunciation. That we must pronounce some things and don't know the finer distinctions of upstate. Yeah, but people don't see the the finer distinctions yeah but people people don't see the press i'm using the press reference as an us they don't see the rigor that we put

greg will literally call me at three in the morning to be like holy beep it's 1791 not 1792 get over here we're re-recording this i'm being obviously over the top hyperbolic yeah no i never call past 230 josh oh it's true 245 is usually there yeah limit somewhere in there i'm like josh might be asleep i'll let him be i'll wait till four yeah i think greg has a little more respect for my time than that. He typically doesn't call past midnight. Typically. Notice there is a typically. There's a midnight cutoff. Rebecca, CL's not going to answer. Well, Josh is probably up.

That's right. That's right. Anyway, all that said, what I'm trying to say is we want you to catch us. We do put a lot of time and effort. I say we. It's really CL and Greg. Put a lot of time and effort into the script and making sure everything is fact-checked dates are right. Times are right.

People are right. There's a lot of Thomas's. There's a lot of, you know, a lot of Williams Williams. Well, and the crazy thing is when, and I mean,

my, my heart has skipped a beat and we have re recorded when it's even written correctly, but you know, at this point, so each episode is, it's not quite 8,000 words, but it's just shy of that. So, you know, to, to give a round number, roughly 8,000 words script, it's kind of like walking down the street. You know, you can walk down the street, anyone can walk, but if you had to make a bet that

you will never trip walking down a sidewalk again, you know you shouldn't take that bet. Yeah. Right? Same thing. I'm just reading plain, well, I guess it's not always plain English, right? Sometimes. It's definitely not. Sometimes we've thrown some, no, we always, no, I have thrown some French in.

Yeah. Yeah. I've thrown a lot of French in. French, Latin, Spanish. Some Spanish. Yeah. Okay. So, never mind. But I'm reading a script. French in. Latin. Some Spanish. Yeah, okay. So, never mind.

But I'm reading a script. You know, it's in front of me. The words can be seen with my good eye. And then Greg all of a sudden will just decide to throw random words in. Yes. The ongoing joke for years, like we've been doing this for years. The ongoing joke for years. No, the ongoing joke was, Greg, read the damn sentence, how it's written. Just the damn sentence how it's written just read it the way

it's because because he'll just be reading a sentence and all of a sudden cl and i'll be like he just added like four words in there and actually sometimes it's better greg greg does a good job ad lib so there are two things one is the ad lib right sometimes sometimes i see the sentence as i'm reading it out loud you know i do just as i as if i were editing a paper i realized oh there's a better way to say this you know this prepositional phrase shouldn't be there i should have a pause here instead of here exactly so even though i didn't put a comma in in the script i am going to insert one in my in the way i read or insert some levity into it which is what you typically do yeah sometimes a joke comes out of nowhere right um and then we

laugh for 10 minutes then we have to re-record the joke because the laughter was in the background because josh messed it up it's always me i'm always laughing and then greg has to hide his face because he can't look at me why i don't know why yeah if i can see josh's face while recording i'm just done for i guess i have that effect it i will never i mean the worst one was uh i don't remember which episode it was like around there yeah five or six i just i made some it wasn't even a huge joke but i think it was late and we were tired and green dragon the green dragon tavern or something and all i said was something like which is the best name ever and i don't 15 minutes yeah i don't know why

that's not even that funny we died oh probably because it was one in the morning one in the morning 50 hours into working on this script yep uh so what we're saying though is um yeah we we do put a lot of time and effort in a year i mean mean, I don't mean this as some massive brag, you're never going to find a big mistake. That's just not going to happen. No, but of course. Um, and in fact,

we were, we're learning new, um, you know, new techniques to try and skirt even these smaller, um, issues. I,

uh, the, the more recent episode where we talked, um, yeah, that was the last time he follows the opening with, um, with DC. Uh, I, yeah, that was the last founding fathers, the opening with, with DC.

I reached out to one of my, my DC friends and said, Hey, I'm going to talk about first street. I know that there's a technical name, but how, how do you refer to it? How someone in DC. Yeah. Give me some local info. And, you know, so we, we had that discussion and that's how i read you know that's how i wrote and then actually read that time without without changing it the script so

please correct us please correct us that's a 20 minute explanation of us trying to tell you please correct us we love the feedback we do all right so All right. So let's kind of hash this last volume, huh? Should we go there now? It's a huge volume to hash. Yeah, it is. We'll try to hash it in 20 minutes. We can do it. We can do it.

Okay. So I think there's one place we need to go just straight up because, you know, as we've said in this very episode, I'm all about connecting things to the present. I've never been the historian for history's sake. And don't get me wrong, I am so grateful to that scholar who thinks the world needs another dissertation on the Bayeux Tapestry. That's great. That, by the way, is a tapestry in an old castle in France, like hundreds of years ago. I personally just don't want to spend my time on history that I can't connect to the present. And that doesn't mean, you know, blowing off ancient stuff, but that's where my interest is. So, you know, as we're going through the early years of the Republic here, I mean we all know that uh things are a little

a little tense between the two major parties in our country right now in our country i'm totally disrespecting a couple hundred listeners abroad in the united states right now but they're nodding too they're like yeah yeah you guys got what the hell america could you get your act together we'd appreciate that um and you know i i couldn't help but think about our present the whole time we're talking about the democratic republicans and the federalists oh my gosh yes yeah you know these throwdowns like you read these things that they do to each other and the things they say to each other in the papers and the arguments that they're having over philosophical differences and it's like oh i totally relate right it also

made me think of the moment that we talked about where there was only one party the era of good the era of good feelings right and i started as we were kind of you wondering if we're headed there not that we're headed there but could we ever get there again is that you know could we even have a one party at this point could we even have a one party at this point? Could we even have a third party at this point? So to weigh in on that, what we could in my, you know, I'm not a political scientist. Okay. Um, but I, I think we can have a third parties play important roles as, as we've seen countless times in our history. And we will, you know, we'll leave the examples out for now. We'll get to them, my friends.

Don't worry, it's coming. But normally the third party speaks to an important matter in that present moment, and then it dissipates. Or the other way it could cut, this is a potential thing. It could displace one of the two major parties. Yeah, so there's never, correct me if I'm wrong, there's never three parties strong. Three main parties, like three real contenders.

Yeah, it's always two. One who maybe displaces, like you said, one of the two. Yeah. But there's never like... Well, and I won't turn this into a poli-sci lecture because, again, I feel a little bit out of my element going there but basically the electoral college it's set up kind of forces two main alliances right and that's why you know some i've heard some people sometimes opine why don't we have a multi-party system you know we could have more options like they do in some European countries.

And Europe is lovely, by the way. I enjoy going over there for my research. But it's not like they don't have their problems. If you think having a third, fourth, and fifth party somehow make everything magical. It's a different set of problems. Exactly. Yeah. You want to get hit over the head with one massive two by

four or you want to be smacked around with a bunch of small bats it's yeah you know and i would argue that with the two-party system this is something i do think we sometimes fail to recognize as uh as americans in our two-party system is that what you really end up with, you still have multiple parties. And we saw this with the Democratic Republicans. They're just factions within the main parties. Yeah, yeah. Because that's the main argument is, oh, sure, there's only one party.

So it's the era of good feelings. But that's really a misnomer because it's not the era of good feelings. It's just the era of everybody's signed up to the same party card so that their sectional factions can show through. Yeah. So it kind of ends up, you know, like I just every time I think air of good feelings, I think of Dr. Tobias Fiumke and his chemosil. And it's really just a mask.

But there's still, you know. Nice arrested development reference there. Love it. Dr. Fiumke's good times. 100% good times 100 natural family band oh he's the best anyway yeah but there's still a ton of problems and you can yeah you've just added a mask to it but the minute you take that team of soul away the air of good feelings mask away there's there's factions well and even as we call it air of good feelings i mean it's it's not like the problems even went away right they were just you're just pretending they're not there yeah yeah i was gonna say it's almost

they call the air of good feelings but is it really the era of nothing happens nothing progresses we kind of just put the stamp on it and And cause we even, even, I'm not saying we were like really struggling to find information to talk about, but we jumped a lot of years because we could, because we could, right? Like we're like, okay, not a lot is going on right now. And, you know, I also don't want the, as detailed as this podcast is, I mean, man, it is 30 hours roughly, right. Of material at this point yeah and um in truth 30 hours covering america from 17 you know 54 yep up to um 18 24 yeah yep that's actually

pretty brief i know that that might feel um really, well, no, I was going to say really slow and really detailed because I hear, you know, many people give feedback saying, wow, I didn't know any of this stuff. You're so detailed. And, you know, okay, yeah, sure, we are detailed. But at the same time, the level of detail we're going to, you could still go multiple clicks deeper. You know, that's why there are podcasts on just the era of good feelings yeah the age of jackson that's a podcast um the uh there are so many podcasts on the early early on just uh revolutionary america oh yeah so you know we i am very deliberately as you know i've said before and i'll go ahead and say again, I'm trying to give a story-based, narrative-driven story version of history.

But nonetheless, I'm taking you through what you need to know. We're not going to get bogged down in an era for the sake of it. So yeah, if we can kind of hustle it along at certain points. We will. Yeah, we're going to do that. Especially if there isn't super exciting stories. Because, yeah, we're absolutely going to fixate on those to make sure history keeps the story in it.

And entertaining. That's, we say it all the time. So we'll spend a sentence talking about the important bill that got passed or the important compromise that got made, and then we'll move on to the fun stuff. Exactly. So you get your cake. And your veggies. Yeah, that's right.

You don't even realize it's carrot cake. Yeah. This analogy is falling apart. But back to, not even the arrow of good feelings, if I could dial it back to before the Federalists decide to self-implode and destroy themselves. Uh-huh. to before the Federalists decide to self-implode and destroy themselves. We're replete with examples of an America that isn't charging into Civil War territory just yet, because I don't know if I want my example of, look, see, America's been worse to be Civil War. But on the eve of the War of 1812, I think about the Baltimore riots.

Patriots were murdered in the streets. Beaten to death. Yeah. Not just like. Yeah, not just. Yeah, it's pretty bad. You know, I don't recall his name off the top of my head. I think he was given the rank of general eventually.

The Revolutionary War veteran who was imprisoned on a British ship offered the opportunity to switch sides by the British. And have a significant rank. Yeah. Not just being a soldier. Basically, they offered him Benedict Arnold benedict arnold uh level stuff and he's like i'm no benedict arnold of course that'd be anachronistic he wouldn't know about benedict arnold but you know this is a true patriot yeah and the democratic republicans kill

him in the street as you know if legend is true as he's showing them his wounds from the revolution saying how can you doubt me and they're like let's throw rocks yeah yeah they don't just it's not just like one guy who takes out a gun and shoots him like they beat him to death it's really bad yeah it's all over political ideals but you guys guys we've never been this bad in america right now right you know and look of course you know neither uh josh cl nor myself are we trying to say like you know everything's hunky-dory in the present and just that's not man the hyperbolic yeah i know i know you aren't josh because i mean i've said similar things to you how many times like right day but the hyperbole that you'll get and uh you know when you turn on the news or whatever the case may be from i i actually don't even like the term fake news i'm so overhearing that term i mean for everyone who listened to you know the episode on the on the boston massacre clearly news

agencies have been putting their spin on it before America was America. Yeah, but from the beginning of time, you could say. Exactly. And that's just the American example. And we'll have more examples as we go forward. Wait till we get to the... Well, I won't even...

There's some good ones coming. Yeah, there's some good ones. I think that you do have plenty of well-meaning reporters who don't know their own history and so they make statements like oh it's never been worse because they don't know because they can't remember a time when it has been that bad and they think in their whopping 40 years of life you know they must have experienced it all i mean it's it's yeah that came across a little more disrespectful than I intended. Um, yeah. Reporters super. Yeah. Screw you. The, you know, it's, it's human, right? We, we like to think we have all the information that we know what we're talking

about. Um, and ironically, the more naive you are on a topic, the more sure you are of yourself. Yeah. Cause the less, you know, the more naive you are on a topic, the more sure you are of yourself. Yeah, because the less you know, the more you think, yeah. Yeah, the more you think you know. So, you know, I think it's, in fact, quite well-intentioned when some of these reporters say something like, oh, you know, the 2016 election was the worst ever because they don't realize that people died. Well, that Rachel died well that rachel died oh my gosh 28 or you know that uh if you talk about an election quote unquote being stolen they they don't realize that john quincy became the president of the united states with a whopping 30 of the vote yeah because of a deal he

made with a guy who thought if i'm secretary of state then i can be president and i'll sell you three states exactly and he did and people getting beaten congress and like yeah how many of those stories have we covered and we haven't even gotten to to some of the really i just this week um the the book um i'm gonna blank on the title but um field of blood i think is what it's called just ordered it it's it's it's a new uh new oh it's my professor yeah because ben park told and lieutenant lieutenant governor referenced it obliquely oh i think so i think you're right yeah well and it's kind of funny now as i was listening through our office hours episodes because

three episode three is when we uh do the interview with ben episode four is when we do the interview with with uh lieutenant spencer spencer he told us to call him spencer so that's when we did our interview with spence and i think he said spencer he's gonna do it at us now be like whoa hey i'm sorry sir don't go giving me nicknames i'm sorry i am your obedient sir so uh spencer uh makes a reference to it, but chronologically we interviewed Spencer just a few days before we interviewed Ben. Yeah, that's true.

So when Spencer makes mention of it, you know, I'm kind of like, okay, yeah, that's cool. And then Ben mentions it. And I'm like,

okay, what's the title of this book? I need this book. And it's just, it was kind of funny to me. I bet most people don't even notice it, but when you watch it, you know, here I am like taking it. Oh, okay. That's the title. I bet most people don't even notice it. But when you watch it, here I am taking it.

Oh, okay, that's the title. And then I do an interview with Lieutenant Governor right after that. Oh, really? That's an interesting book. Moving on. But we didn't even say what the book's about. The book is on nothing but brawls in Congress. This is hundreds of pages.

It's a book that you can use to hold down anything. It's heavy. It's thick. And it's nothing but page after page of people having violent fights in Congress. Not verbal. We're talking physical. Yeah. So I'm not talking someone's feelings got hurt. Or Twitter. And again, as I say that, please do not take that as me somehow- Advocating that that's feelings got hurt. Or Twitter. Again, as I say that, please do not take that as me, you know, somehow advocating that that's what we want.

Although putting two congressmen in a ring to fight would be pretty sweet. In fact, I'll go ahead and highlight well, I think this is all our district. I'm not sure in Utah's third congressional district right now, the races between our current representative, John Curtis.

He's a Republican. His challenger, James Singer, a Democrat. They just sent out a co-authored op-ed in one of the Utah papers, Deseret News. Which I thought was awesome, by the way. Oh, I just want to give these guys the biggest high five. Their op-ed calls for greater civil discourse.

And they also went on local news here in Utah recently to continue that discussion. And I just applaud and love seeing an example of seated politicians who are doing that sort of thing so i am not saying that i'm on board all

this to come full circle i um mildly want to throw up at you know some of the rhetoric i see out there all the more i'm trying to say is that when you know some pundit says that America's never been worse because of X, Y, or Z. Yeah, I mean, so many examples are going through my head. I'm just thinking like, no, I probably don't even want it. Don't even touch it. I'm not going to touch it. Sorry, we did not mean for this to get super political.

No, but this is a political era in American history. This whole volume two, really, is a lot of... And the focus is two parties that both, as I would say, I think is the present, two parties that both love America, but are convinced that the opposite party, or at least enough people in those parties are convinced that the opposite party are actual enemies of America. That they hate what America is. that they're trying to tear down america and i don't know what's worse the idea that back then you're tearing down something that is brand new and blooming or a modern day approach where you're tearing down something that is traditional and old and established, right? These kind of two. I mean, I think it just shows human nature.

They were just humans or pieces of crap. Yeah. I think when, and, you know, this is a little bit of kind of what the discussion I had with Lieutenant Governor. And so, I mean, I'll leave most of it for people to go there. But, you know, you notice that the bickering and fighting between the Federalists and the Democratic Republicans, it dies with the War of 1812. Why? In my opinion, you know, not to be too brusque with history, but beyond some of the Federalists doing some stupid things. I was going to say, part of it is them imploding themselves. Them imploding themselves.

But part of the way they imploded and the reason that they could implode like that is because Americans no longer had the convenience of cannibalizing each other. They had a large external threat. It was kind of their own bringing it on to a degree uh yes um but you know they've got this massive blockade going on on the east coast you've got british troops attacking uh where i mean of course we're attacking too right yeah but british troops trying trying to invade from the north you've got enemies to to the south. You've got, yeah. Down in Florida. I mean, every edge of America. I mean, other than, I guess, you know,

some large parts of the frontier. But some parts of the frontier are under attack too because the British go and ally themselves with- Yeah, they do. Yeah, the American Indians. So, yeah. Yeah. But in terms of big attacks that, you know,

people are feeling and hearing the ripple effects all the way, you know, yeah. Yeah. But in terms of big attacks that, you know, it's people are feeling and hearing the ripple effects all the way, you know, across the country, you know, it, it's not like, um, it's, it's not some, some sort of military engagement and not to take away from some of the engagements we're currently involved in. But I, you know, I think we can sometimes just forget about it because it's not, you know, people aren't having to take the bumper off of their car to be melted down. Not that our bumpers are even made of metal anymore. You know, so it's not this ever present thing, this other out there that's, that's ready to rain down on America. And so we have to bind together.

We have the convenience of fighting each other. Right. And that's what I see when I look at the early Republic. They have the convenience of fighting each other. Right. And that's what I see when I look at the early Republic. They have the convenience of fighting each other. Until? Until the war breaks out. And then, you know, you just don't get to worry about trying to kill the Federalist, you know, in the trench next to you when you're busy dodging bullets fired by, you know.

Oh, 100% by Canadians. Who knew, by the way, there were no Canadians hurt in the making of this last volume. Yet. It's top time. Josh, we will not let Josh into the Canadian border.

Don't, don't worry. Canadian listeners. You're safe. Canadian friends. Oh, good. All conversations are covered're safe. I have Canadian friends. Oh, good. Because all conversations are covered when you say I have friends.

I got friends. I know people there. So basically what you're saying, Greg, is that- That they're parallels. Yeah, there's parallels. And that we will fight when it's convenient for us, and we'll team up when it's also convenient for us. And not that it's an American thing. I think that that's a human nature.

You know, it really is. I mean, I see that, you know, and I welcome anyone to, to, to push against,

against that. It's, it's my thesis. It's kind of what I'm arguing. No, I would make the same argument. Jeez, we could countless examples in Latin America.

This is American history podcast, but right. Just as you're cranking them out. So Simon Bolivar, I mean, that's one big one that you talk about right i was thinking about hernan cortez coming into the conquest but this is just human nature you you get on the side when conflict arises you look for allies and that's just human nature that's what you do well and so you start looking for the things that bind you rather than the things that tear you apart and your differences so what we need to have is a war yeah no no that's not what i'm saying um that's uh what's that expression like uh an inch of hurt pound of cure

something yeah something like that yeah yeah Definitely not calling for. We're calling for more civil discourse. Yeah, that's all. You know, because this is where history plays an important role. Because if we can actually learn our history, remember it, remember it well enough to then look at our present and go, oh, we're doing that. Yeah. You know, we can rise above it. We can learn a few lessons and do better. Precisely.

Which is what we all love to do. So yeah, we don't need a war. We just need people to listen to this podcast. Gosh, damn it. Listen to this podcast. America, you're welcome. Sorry, that sounded a little more forceful than I meant it to be.

That's so Utah, by the way. You just said, gosh, damn it. Well, I was going to go with God damn it, but then I didn't know. I think we're okay because as we quoted many a British soldier back in episode five towards Paul Revere, there was definitely- Basically, what I'm trying to do is do I want to swear and then have to give myself more work later? Yeah, try to edit that out. Yeah.

As we always- Although you wouldn't edit God, I guess, huh? No. Should I just went for God damn it? I apologize, yeah. Yeah. As we always. Although you wouldn't edit God, I guess, huh? No. Should have just went for God damn it. I apologize, people. Just going to double down and say it three or four times. Yeah, good, good. Get it in there.

Yeah. So, I mean, I guess that is in some ways the big takeaway, at least for me, from this. Volume two. Yeah, from volume two. CL, you've got a look though on your face i think you have something final remarks yeah well i just think i mean just back to the era of good feelings like when we get back to the the luxury of of being able to attack one another it's really interesting to me that we let a political party die and we say hey the war

is over let's all get along and be all this be on the same side and for a while i think a few people believe that they're on the same side, but it doesn't take too long for people to go, you know what? We should definitely fight over sectional things. Let's go ahead and do that. Thanks. But yeah, but it takes a little, a few years for it to dissipate back into not civil discourse. Yeah.

My, my last takeaway would be, yeah, we need more civil discourse and that I think we need to realize, I mean, with the air of good feelings that we have more in common than we do against. I think I'm not going to go down some crazy political thing, but I think one of the big things that's tearing apart the country personally,

is my opinion is identity politics. This idea that people are going to these, these, these teeny teeny little factions, ideological factions, right? And there's kind of, we're losing this underlining narrative of what it means to be American.

And that's kind of what we've been talking about, about history in this podcast and what unites us. And I just think that's, that's what you should to be American. And that's kind of what we've been talking about, about history and this podcast and what unites us. And I just think that's, that's what you should learn from history. The things that make you similar, it doesn't have to be necessarily ideological, but as a human and some of the strengths and weaknesses of past mistakes, past victories that people have gone through.

I think that's what it, I don't know. That's what it's all about. So volume two for me is a reminder that we need more of that today we need some more more common ground more common ground realizing oh he okay we don't agree on a b and c but you know we do maybe agree on this this and this and he's not such a bad guy because he has an R next to his name or a D or whatever, right? Just talk. I don't know.

I'm just such a proponent lately of like, why can we not have civil discourse? I don't understand why it's such a big deal today. But anyway, that's my rant. All right. Well, thank you for your rant, Josh. Listen to volume two there. There you go. The one last thing I think I would like to,

not necessarily launch an entire discussion on, it was, we had two episodes earlier on in this volume where we looked at industrialization and we looked at the new twist on slavery in the South with cotton becoming the King, you know, displacing, um,

other cash crops. Yeah. And in revitalizing slavery, where it was starting to die a natural death in, um, the mid Atlantic States at least. Um, yeah.

And, and cotton just takes hold and it's like, okay, here we go. We're just going to rev this up and take a stranglehold on across the whole South. Well, I do think and we'll certainly have more discussion about the

divergence in the Northern economy versus the Southern economy in the episodes to come. But I think that's that's just crucial for people to understand as we build up to the civil war so i'd certainly hope that um that people got you know that that the north and south their economies are on very different trajectories by this point and not just their economies but their social structures their cultures are very different.

Their values are very different, how they live. And that's based somewhat on economy and what they do for a living, right? And how their towns are structured and what they look like. Yeah, it's all interconnected. Yeah, it is. It really is. But the North and South look very different. They function very differently.

And it's really hard. Like you were just saying, Josh, with finding those common grounds, it is very difficult for Northerners and Southerners to find anything in common. And you read it even as early as like the 1810s, the 1810s. Like you read people who, you know, Northerners who are coming to visit the South and be like, what is this place? Even to dip into volume one here. I mean, back to, I think it was volume one, Washington's presidency. That's the beginning of two. Boom, we're still in here.

You know, where Jefferson and Hamilton are saying to him, please, you have to go for a second term. This union is so fragile. And North and South are the division that they're seeing that early on. are saying to him, please, you have to go for a second term. This union is so fragile. And North and South are the division that they're seeing that early on. Yeah, that's way early on. It really is. The ink is still drying on the Constitution, and we're having discussions of a North-South divide. So this is just exacerbating it as the North industrializes,

and the South goes from you know relying on slavery so deeply that south carolina and georgia are ready to bail on the constitution if it doesn't give a pass on slavery to somehow managing to up that reliance yeah i don't know how we up that game but we do but they do yeah yeah um and uh you know the the story of gabriel i'll just say quickly i mean his rebellion to me is it's one of the most american things uh that he could have ever done um and i mean you know his rhetoric the way he's talking the way that people in his rebellion are talking because it's not just him too these ideas that that they're saying, it's like- I mean, death or liberty, they're quoting, you know? They're basically quoting Patrick Henry.

Sorry, go ahead. Oh no, I was going to say the guy who gets up at his defense as he's being accused of- No, he's dead on. Yeah, he's like, no, I'm doing nothing that George Washington would have done.

I'm standing up for my liberties and I'm standing up for my people and I'm willing to die for it and what do you say to that right like they i mean there isn't a good response to it they just they just hang him and say um you can't say things like that thanks well and so as we get into you know like volume three here you know i i do look forward to giving more uh more air to other um patriots yeah to other patriots you know to these sorts of stories um solomon northrup i think we'll we'll land in this volume and we'll see where we cut things if you've seen the movie 12 years a slave that's that's him i have been looking forward to telling his story since before this podcast launched it's an amazing story. He's an amazing American. Yeah. Yeah. So,

well, I think, I think we've, uh, yeah, we've done, how are we doing on time here, Josh? We're an hour and seven minutes.

Well, let's go ahead and let the good people get on with their, their day. Yeah. I mean, what they're going to do is go listen to it, to an office hours episode, right?

Yeah, absolutely. So, um, you better again, Josh, I was going gonna be freaked out they're like i promise josh is not violent i'm not violent i'm actually josh is a lovely human being i want to i want to double down on that and be very clear um thank you i mean dude i spent so much of my

my waking hours we spent a lot of time i wouldn't do that if you weren't a wonderful human being so i i hope his sarcasm just as i always hope my sarcasm is coming through clear on the on the mind i'm a very sarcastic person hopefully it's why we're picking that up sir yeah um but thanks as always to all of you who are listening um it's it's so validating and, uh, you know, just great to, to know that, you know, the thousands of you at this point across the country and abroad are listening. Thank you. Um, we do not mind if you share it by the way, and just help us reach more people. So by all means, please, uh, please do so.

Um, just thanks so much. It really, there are times we're doing a podcast i mean this is a lot emotionally as well like you know putting yourself out there this crazy 21st century where nothing's erased everything's permanent uh my my voice is out there for 30 hours plus or whatever um you know thank you for for validating it um and by the way if you'd like to support us we have a mug we have an awesome mug so if you go to our website history that doesn't suck.com we have a store with the coolest mug ever oh it's amazing yeah you need it you need it it has the story of uh the Tea Party on it.

This is a coffee mug. This is not a tea mug. I was just going to say, do you drink coffee? The statistic that you do is a yes. Yes. You need this mug. Apologies to our British listeners. Hey, I have a Boston Party teapot in my home. You can enjoy a coffee mug.

Shipping internationally. It's a problem we'd love to have. Please give us that issue. I'll learn. you can enjoy a coffee mug shipping internationally it's a problem we'd love to have so please make us please give us that issue yep I'll learn I think I think that covers the bases

yeah it does alright hey just thanks again to everyone and join us in two weeks where we'll start volume three

and I'd like to tell you a story We'll see you next time. Special thanks to our members, whose monthly gift puts them at producer status. low george sherwood gerwith griffin henry brunges jake gilbreth james g bledsoe janie mccreary jeff marks jennifer moods jennifer magnolia jeremy wells jessica poppock joe dovis john frugal doogle john booby john keller john oliveros john ridley bitch john schaefer john chef jordan corbett joshua steiner justin m spriggs justin may kristin pratt karen bartholomew cassie koneko kim r kyle decker lawrence neubauer linda cunningham mark ellis matthew mitchell matthew simmons melanie What did it take to survive an ancient siege? Why was the cult of Dionysus behind so many slave revolts in ancient Rome? What's the tragic history and mythology behind Japan's most haunted ancient forest? We're Jen and Jenny from Ancient History Fangirl.

Join us to explore ancient history and mythology from a fun, sometimes tipsy perspective. Find us at ancienthistoryfangirl.com or wherever you get your podcasts.