History That Doesn't Suck - Second Edition Episodes: A Discussion

Episode Date: January 31, 2018

While discussed in passing in a few epilogues, the Prof. sits down with Kelsi to go deep on “second edition” or “remaster” episodes of HTDS. The conversation includes Greg’s guiding views and philosophy in making HTDS, a bit of HTDS history (how meta is that?), all the technical aspects behind second editions, as well as discussions about the new scenes often added. Oh, and of course, directions on where to find the much beloved old-school originals, which will always be available. It’s a real peek behind the curtains. Enjoy! ____ Connect with us on HTDSpodcast.com and go deep into episode bibliographies and book recommendations join discussions in our Facebook community get news and discounts from The HTDS Gazette  come see a live show get HTDS merch or become an HTDS premium member for bonus episodes and other perks. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Goaltenders, no. But chicken tenders, yes. Because those are groceries, and we deliver those, too. Welcome to History That Doesn't Suck. I'm your professor, Greg Jackson, and as in the classroom, my goal here is to make rigorously researched history come to life as your storyteller. Each episode is the result of laborious research with no agenda other than making the past come to life as you learn. If you'd like to help support this work, receive ad-free episodes, bonus content, and other exclusive perks, I invite you to join the HTDS membership program. Sign up for a seven-day free trial today at htdspodcast.com slash membership or click the link in the episode notes. Hello, my friends, and welcome to History That Doesn't Suck. I'm your professor, Greg Jackson.

And today, we take a little pause from our usual story-driven account of American history to bring you a little discussion. I'm joined by my dear friend here, Kelsey Dines. Kelsey, go ahead and say hello. Hey, y'all. There we are. We've done, in the last two years or so, eight second edition episodes at this point. Yeah. And today, we just had the thought that after having done eight of those,

we've replaced the original files to those episodes at the beginning of the catalog. And frankly, we just know that that's kind of different for podcasts to do. So we just thought, let's go ahead and address this very directly in a single episode. We've kind of...

We've hinted at it. No, we've discussed it. We've been very straightforward in a few epilogues kind of, not even kind of, no, we've discussed it. We've been very straightforward in a few epilogues. But it was always like, here's the one thing we're going to slide in there as we also talk about

like six major episodes. Yeah, it was very much just a, hey, we're doing these second editions. This is going to be fun for all of us. We're excited to do it. Duly noted, yeah.

And then we moved on to discussing as we do in epilogues. Yeah. But felt like it was probably a good idea to bring that all together. Especially since we've done eight of them at this point. Yeah. Yeah. And we are looking to do more. By the way, I'm also going to know it is January 10th, 2023.

We'll bring that back later in our discussion. It'll be important later. It is with purpose that I say this, yes. So yeah, let's go ahead and dive in. Okay. All right. So I mean, the first thing I want to make very clear, I remain absolutely pleased with the early episodes.

We're not doing this because we're like, oh my goodness, they're not. Yeah, absolutely not. They're not terrible. ACDS was built on it. We're not doing this because we're like, oh my goodness, they're not. Yeah, absolutely not. They're not terrible. ACDS was built on it. They're not terrible. Glowing, glowing, you know, praise, yes. But that's not why

we're doing it. No. Because they were, right? No, I stand by them. The blood, sweat, and tears. And I mean, the fond memories of working with Josh and Ciel.

Man, those early days. Yeah. All very, you know, not having any idea. Before your time, Kelsey. It was before my time, but not having any idea what this was going to turn into. No, no. But there are a few reasons

why we've decided to do these second editions. So all that said, I don't know that we're going to do this in order of importance per se. Probably not. Yeah, we'll come out swinging with, I've honed my craft. And I guess we're going to get a little bit into the philosophy of history that doesn't suck. It is different to go back to old episodes and remaster or do a second edition, right?

That's unusual in the podcasting space, but I'll point out my very purposeful use of the term second edition. Remaster's fine. I don't mind that. We sometimes- We call them that sometimes, but- But that brings more of the podcasting, like audio recording aspects to it, which is part of it. But the reason I say second edition is because when I started history, that doesn't suck. Now to go back to the whole why and what brought me to this place that I'm at now over half a decade later, I came at it as an academic. I came at it

as a historian, have a PhD in history. I'm at, at the time was tenured track. I am now a tenured professor at Utah Valley University. And to me, basically the rigor that you expect in academic publishing, I wanted to see that in the podcasting space. And that is absolutely there in those old episodes. I'm pleased as punch with them. I was trained to write as an academic though.

And I feel like the storytelling was absolutely strong. The storytelling was there. And I think that's a big hook for why a lot of people have enjoyed them. And that's been my catch phrase, right? From my opening line from the beginning. I like to tell you a story. Hundreds of thousands of, geez.

Yeah, hundreds of thousands. It's probably the millions actually. Of words now. Think that through. Yep. Truly thousands upon thousands of footnotes. Yeah. I've come to better understand not just how to take that academic rigor and put it into a story. I feel the earlier episodes felt a little bit closer to my classroom lecture style. Not that it was the same, of course, right? Because I can't script a 75-minute lecture, you know, by no means. It always had more of a book feel to it. And that, of course, is part of why HTDS, I've always talked about it in volumes, right? And our discussions at

the end of a quote-unquote volume has been an epilogue because I really do conceive of HTDS as kind of more an audio book than a multi-volume audio book. Yes, it is. I sometimes catch flack from people when I describe it as a textbook and I appreciate it. The flack that I'm given is that it's interesting and entertaining and textbooks tend to not be those things. But that was my goal from day one, right? It was to take textbook rigor and information, wrap them up in entertaining stories, get you to care about the people who are living and experiencing this history. And, you know, it's the non-secret secret of HGDS, right? I want the listener to be so into the story that's being told. And this has been the case from day one, going all the way back to 2017. I want the listener to be so engaged with the story that you're gonna accidentally learn

those mind-numbing facts that so many a student has loathed as they take the AP exam. But more importantly, not just for the sake of knowledge, but because I genuinely believe these are important things for us to know. It's helpful. Well, and I think to understand our lives, right? Understanding where we came from, not just us personally, but like as a society, that helps. Yes, exactly.

And so, I mean, that's kind of the drive and thinking of this as a book. So it's not that, you know, I did an episode and you move on. No, this is in my mind, a anthology. It is a textbook. You come to episode one, you move forward and HTDS takes you, the listener, from the American Revolution and eventually up through, people always ask me about when I'm going to end, but yeah, through American history.

Ballpark, the end of the 20th century-ish. Somewhere. We'll see. Yeah. I'm not going to turn to and not because it's a bad thing i just think that there are lines i want to distinguish i am not a reporter yeah and so at some point well you want there to be kind of i feel like i like personally that no critique to other historians who go into very modern events but like i don't feel like i i would want to do an episode on something three to four years ago yeah it. It's good to have some time for things to cool down, documents to come forward. Frankly, dead people are a lot more forthcoming in some ways.

So that's a pretty morbid joke. But yeah, I don't know what the cutoff is. But the point being, the listener will absorb, you know, what you should expect in a quality education. That's the idea. And that'll be fun. Taking my storytelling from what I did do in class. I feel like that was one of the things that Kelsey, you were my student once upon a time. And I don't think I consciously decided to become a storyteller. That's not what academic history teaches you to do. Not usually, but I think that you recognized that that helped students especially learn a lot of those details that maybe would be easy to overlook. Yeah, that there's power in it. And it can be a difficult

thing to bring the power of storytelling and keep the rigor of academic history. But it was a challenge that I kind of, I would say more fell into, but eventually embraced. And embracing it would certainly be the, if not sooner, in the classroom, it was the day that HTDS became a thing, right? All that to say, I don't see the past episodes as things that are just done and they're in the can, just as an author will do a second edition of a beloved book. And it doesn't mean that the wheel is being reinvented. No, it means that they thought of something else

that they felt needed to be included. Right. Or they found something else new that they felt needed to be there. So it's not them taking away anything from the work that they already did on that book. It's just adding to it. You can't get a nice rank on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice? Yes, we deliver those. Goaltenders, no.

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Interior Chinatown is an all-new series based on the best-selling novel by Charles Yu about a struggling Asian actor who gets a bigger part than he expected when he witnesses a crime in Chinatown. Streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. So, let's talk about a few of the things that we looked at and go, oh my gosh, the perfectionist that I most unfortunately am of drive my poor family, friends and colleagues, I'm sure nuts. And you're all so kind to me, Kelsey. I know you've had to have thoughts at times like, good grief, Greg, let that one go. This is not as big of a deal as you think it is.

Is Kelsey, damn it. Okay. But a few of those things. So on the storytelling side, because again, it's not, history is perfect. And I'm so happy. Well, perfect, that's not the word I want to use. You know what I mean. The history is solid.

The history is solid. Nothing is perfect. Especially not history. No, perfect. That's not the word I want. You know what I mean. The history is solid. The history is solid. Nothing is perfect. Especially not history. No, no. So, yeah, let's just remove that word from the conversation of any historian, frankly. But the production side, I think that's a great place to jump in. Yeah. You know, podcasting is a funny thing. What I've observed in my now a little over five years very deeply in this space um is that people maybe they're different crowds you know but but it all kind of um becomes a mix of right the emails the reviews whatever the things that come in uh there's this love for the grit

the love the small time, independent. Total podcast. You're cranking it in the basement. Because it's kind of a like stick it to the man. It seems like an achievable dream for everyone. Yes, it does. Anybody can do this as long as they have a mic. And I think that's part of the beauty of podcasting as a whole.

Yeah. Is because you have so many. You can put yourself out there. Yeah, and you can say, oh, this is something that I really love talking about. I enjoy learning about and be able to share that with people. And you're going to find other people that are enjoy that. Yeah. And yet. And yet. And yet the production value is still, that's the funny thing, like it's the grittiness of the individual podcasters appreciated. And yet the production value can then sometimes when a show really takes off, be expected to somehow be on par with what you'd expect.

To have always been that way. Yes, and to have always been that way. And, you know, Airship, who produces the episodes at this point, we did an episode when they first came on when my dear friend, my brother, Josh, departed for grand pastors. By the way, I know a number of you listening to this, you are familiar with Josh's voice. You're familiar with Josh's work. I appreciate your emails about him, particularly when he left. I've passed many of those on to him. He loves to see that what he did is still appreciated. But, you know, Josh and I, man, Josh was just willing to set himself up with an editing program.

And, you know, I knew how to do history. I didn't know how to- Do the rest of it. No. And so one thing that we had no clue about was the decibel level that a file's exported at. And apparently, we exported like everything ever, forever, just about, at too low of a level.

So when we came to Airship, that was one of the things that Airship said, oh, you know, that's, you got a small volume problem there. So we tried to fix that. One thing that Airship was able to augment that decimal level. And we started to notice it because, of course, ads would run. We didn't see that at the beginning because you can't run ads right out the gate. And Josh and I were just labor of loving it.

You know, that was it. No support. Yeah, this isn't something that you came from this audio background understanding those things at all. But yeah, suddenly, you know, you get like an email. Oh, my gosh. These ads are really loud. Why would you scream at us? I have no idea what you're talking about.

And yeah, airship. Oh, yeah. Here's your problem. here's your problem. Here's your problem. Oh, well. And so Airship was able to increase the sound. But as there are definitely some, I'm still no audio tech. I'm not gonna pretend that that's what Airship does.

That's their job. But basically kind of like a photo that you might have on your phone or your computer. You can only enlarge it so much and depends on the quality. Yeah on the quality of the initial photo before it starts to become pixelated. The same thing happens to a sound file. So those early episodes, the raw sound is forever at a lower decimal. And as much as it's been, it's been bumped up to that. Yeah, we've bumped it up as high as it can go, really yeah is what airship has told us like this is this is it as high as we can bring this and it is better it's so yeah than it initially was but there still is that slight difference especially because ray airship does ads as

well and so that's exported at the higher volume So the ads are still a little bit louder than some of these earlier episodes. It's not jarring at least. It's not super jarring. We also got the rewind sound figured out. That one was really loud at first too. Yes, it was. So yeah, these are just things that we just didn't, you know. Didn't think about.

It's the independent podcaster cranking it out in the basement, quite literally. Not thinking about future ads. Well, not knowing, right? That's part of the joy and craziness of history that doesn't suck. Yeah, but here we are where we are today. And so wanting to bring up that professional level now that we've kind of reached that and fix some of these issues. Well, we can't do that with the original audio. I have to rerecord those episodes.

And Josh is gone. So it's going to have an airship sound design. But beyond that, my craft has improved. I know how to go in and out of story mode. Or rather, I found my specific modality, the way I like to do it. It's been interesting over the years having these conversations with like Steve Walters, head writer at Airship and then with other podcasters or writers for scripted podcasts and realizing, you know, the different voices out there. And I've really found mine.

Another thing, just not even knowing what to look out for or things that, you know, you, you just don't know in your own little corner. Uh, I try to be so careful about, uh, everything. And so I know a number of listeners are going to say, Greg, don't you dare apologize for pronunciations and things like that. But, but look, here's, here's where I do think it's an important thing. And I really try to get this stuff right. Because this might be the only time someone's heard of this whatever town on this side of the country. Or this river. Yeah. And you want to make sure you're getting it correct.

I do. I do. Because otherwise I perpetuate a mispronunciation. I can't even pronounce. Mispronunciation. There we go. So that's where that, you know, I mean, I do think sometimes it turns into maybe more of a hang up than I should have let it become. But it's why I care so deeply about it.

And again, I can fix these things in an airship episode where we've got all these projects are archived properly. Again, I did not know what I was doing at the gate. And so I can't go in and fix, like, I think my most infamous mispronunciation has to be Mobile, Alabama. I don't remember which episode that was. I mean, I'm sure that it was in multiple episodes. No, it was one, maybe multiple. I shouldn't say no for sure. But I know, well, I know of one for sure. And, you know, it still cracks me up uh

at that point there were enough listeners that you know people pointed out a pronunciation or two you start to get feedback you're just in a vacuum yeah out the gate and frankly hds was in that super small vacuum where um let let's be honest um mom just doesn't bring the critiques the way that strangers do. Or no, right? You're doing great. You're still in your bubble. You're still in your small, small bubble. And I mean, as much as I have had the privilege, luxury, advantage of having an education and life that's taken me to a few different parts of the country. I mean, it's still very focused. We started this podcast.

I had set foot in the South exactly one time for one academic conference. I'd never been to the Northwest. The Southwest is really where I've lived and done my thing. The majority of... Yep, the Southwest and a few years in Boston. And you're shaped by that. 100%. I mean, people make fun of me. I'm a native Utahn and I don't pronounce my T's very often.

Oh, see, I don't even think about it. It is hunting here. I don't say the T or the G. And I love that that is the example you go to for a word. Well, you know. Mountain. Mountain. Yeah. So, but point being, you know, I actually asked on that.

I've called it mobile my whole life. And I asked someone who I thought knew better than me. Oh, no, it's mobile. It's really? Because I've always heard. Nope, it's mobile. Okay. it's mobile it's really because i've always heard nope it's okay okay uh trying to you know humbly accept correction and for me it was also part of the lesson of like okay right whatever

you say or do there are far more people with opinions than there are people who have the right facts and these are things we all know but you kind of have to experience them before you know it. Right. So, but now thank you to everyone in the HTDS Facebook group in particular. I mean, I've asked on other social media, you know, Twitter and stuff, whatnot. But that Facebook group is freaking amazing. Yeah. Very engaging.

And, you know, there's just such a variety of listeners now. It's like I can pierce my own, you know, my mortal shortcoming. Well, not like it's a shortcoming. We all live in a place. We all have a background. But I can say, hey, how do you pronounce this river in Arkansas? And someone there will know someone yes out comes someone oh yeah i i fish on that river this is how this is how it said okay you fish on that's pretty authoritative i'll roll with that because you i mean i think that part of what we try to do is go with the local pronunciation yeah right so we can say from our west coast knowledge how we think something is said back east but it's not always the right way. It's not the way the local would say it. And I won't go into a million details on it,

but I mean, you know, there are some episodes, obviously, like, first of all, the perfectionist I am, I have made peace with like, okay, there is the occasional word that is mispronounced, even in some of the airship episodes that I just, for the sake of production and, you production and time, I can't ask that of airship in perpetuity.

Every single possible. But if there are two or three, it's a big thing in that local area. The rest of the nation, we don't know about it, but it's really important in the state of South Carolina. Yeah, you want to get that right. Yeah. So there's that. You will probably hear some pronunciation errors moving forward. Oh, yes.

Well... From this. Okay, so let's circle back to the date. Okay. Let's do that, right? So we are releasing this discussion as an episode. So it will come out in... It'll be our last episode of January 2023.

As you are listening to this episode months from now, maybe even years from now, you will probably notice that in the catalog, that is a big dirty lie as far as what the date says. One thing, Kelsey, I'll geek out on this again, right? As a historian, this shows some of the problems that historians face all the time. So we can move an episode in its place in the catalog by changing the date and we can change the date. So our plan is to take this episode that really kind of explains what's going on

with the second editions. And we're gonna keep this right at the end of any second edition episodes we've done. And to also go ahead and address, I'm starting to get a few emails on. It's probably because we've replaced the first like- Seven. Yeah, seven files now, right? It'll be eight shortly. I am planning on doing more second editions for sure. And again, I'm so proud of it. Please, no worries. I know I'll probably get an email or a slew saying something, Greg, those early episodes are great. You know,

leave them be. And you can still listen to them. Yeah, they're still all on YouTube. Yep. We're not getting rid of them. We're not getting rid of them. And if they're not, I don't know. I think they're all still on the Patreon as well. They are. Patreon, YouTube. I'm sure that indefinitely in the future, htdspodcast.com, right? Anything you want to do with this podcast, you'll find a path to it if it's not on the website itself.

So log that away. Yeah, I mean, I'm proud of them. Just like if you go buy a volume, this won't surprise those who listened to episode 100. I do have a first edition, multi-volume Edgar Allan Poe, you know. Yeah, you're going to find some different punctuations and different things in that first edition versus the later. You can still get the first edition. And that's what I mean.

The first edition. It's not like these are disappearing and we're like hiding them away forever. No, they're still available they're still out there but just like just like with the book because again that's how i conceive of this the second edition right yeah that that's the one that you're going to find readily available in the paperback at the bookstore exactly assuming a few years from now will bookstore still exist but um hopefully uh so those first editions will always be there. I still love them to death.

But I will definitely do some more. Will I actually do a second edition of every single one that preceded Airship? I don't want to commit to that. I mean, life is long. We'll see. Yeah. But it's very plausible that that could. It's not out of the realm of possibility.

Right. And so as we definitely do some more of these, particularly The Revolution, it's an era that I just really have a strong passion for. We'll move this episode in its place so that people will find it. If you're listening through the thing chronologically, you'll bump into this just as you now hit some of the originals. Amazon's holiday deals are here so you can celebrate the season early. With low prices on decor, electronics, and beauty. Perfect for stocking stuffers.

And my stocking's looking good. Shop holiday deals early on Amazon now. This episode is brought to you by Dyson OnTrack. Dyson OnTrack headphones offer best-in-class noise cancellation Shop holiday deals early on Amazon now. for comfort and a range of colors and finishes. Dyson OnTrack. Headphones remastered. Buy from DysonCanada.ca. With ANC on, performance may vary based on environmental conditions and usage. Accessories sold separately. Kelsey, when we were talking earlier, as we've kind of jumped all over the place, you mentioned the George Washington story. Yeah. So in episode, the second edition of episode six, I loved it. Added in the bit about George Washington being nominated and asked to take over the Continental Army.

And that was not originally in the original script i liked seeing that because i felt like it gave more context because we talked about oh and george washington became the general of the army and and that's kind of where it's always left right we don't i like seeing that kind of oh i don't know if i really want to do this like he was really hesitant and I appreciated that. Also, I'd love to hear John Hancock was sitting over there wanting to do it himself. He's like, oh. Well, those are the things that make HTDS, right? Like that's the thing that I love doing on HTDS is that's what brings history to life. Those things are in those early episodes.

It's just not as much detail. Well, it's partly that, like, I know these sources, you know, better. I mean, again, I was a university professor when I started this. Much more time in these sources now. Precisely. So, you know, and I also read the sources differently. By that, I mean, well, I've always been the historian and I look at it and I'm I'm very careful to go, okay, this is, this is where I need to specify this as conjecture. Like I can't do a story on this one because there are too many maybe yeah, there are too many maybes,

right? Or as I've done, I do it rarely, but sometimes it does make sense both from an entertainment level, but more importantly, from a from a teaching level, it makes sense both from an entertainment level but more importantly from a from a teaching level it makes sense to draw the listener in with the story like we did this on i remember zach asking for permission uh hey can we do this on this episode i was like yes yes with this this is done on occasion he was so jazzed but the uh spanish-american war where we told the story of a woman being harassed by Spanish customs in, was it in Havana Harbor? At any rate, we told that story and it was the way that Hearst told the story

in his newspaper. So I let the reader, the reader, look at that. See, I think of it as a book. I let the listener get pulled into it the way Hearst wanted it. Yeah. And then we dropped the other shoe. By the way, just kidding, load of crap. Oh yeah, we did that with the Boston Massacre as well. Yes, right. Yeah, episode three, right out the gate. So, you know, there's, when I was reading through, because I verify everything, like I also see these second editions

as careful research has went into them originally. Yeah, if there isn't a footnote already or I don't distinctly remember it, I verify it. Yeah. And it has led to a few things that went, oh, that was a fun little juicy detail. But if I can't figure out where I got that originally and I can't remember it, knowing that

that is true, I know there's a 99% chance I got that right, but I cut it. All that said, as I was going through, I was reading John Adams' diary. And so I read about his speaking in front of the Congress nominating George Washington, the drama, right? There's John Hancock. He describes how John Hancock, like he could see, this I couldn't put into the episode. You know, it just, it didn't flow right. But John Adams explains how he knows that John Hancock's face is crestfallen. I'm not making that up, right? That's not me taking license.

I can't remember if he uses that exact word. Or that's the way he describes it. Yes, yes, he describes it. And he clarifies, I can't remember if he uses that exact word. Or that's the way he describes it. Yes, yes. He describes it. And he clarifies, I can tell you this. I mean, I'm paraphrasing, right? But I can tell you this because as I'm speaking, I'm facing the president because that's how these things work. You'll notice in many of these stories where I go into the speaker modality, they'll say, sir. You know they're speaking to the whole Congress and yet they keep saying, sir, right? You know, they're speaking to the whole

Congress and yet they keep saying, sir, sir, they address the president. Yeah. And so they drop in that, sir. So learn something new. Cause I didn't know that that's why they say, sir, that's it. They speak to the president yet. You don't address the, the everybody else. Yes. You're, you're addressing the president of the Congress in this case, right? So, and he said just, you know, from where he's at, even as he's looking around the room, he acknowledges that there's definitely some like, because you're addressing the president, but you're super speaking to everybody else. Yeah. But he said that he had a perfect, you know, eyesight, like lined up.

Right with him. Yeah. And he just watched as John Hancock's face absolutely crestfallen he could see the like feeling of disappointment maybe even be betrayal a little bit like it's a strong word but you know hancock really some popular hancock totally expected yeah his bff bfs may be strong but you know what right? They were obviously familiar with each other. His fellow Massachusetts man, right? Locals are going to have each other's backs.

We're going to play that game. Because that has always happened, right? It's the thing we can all identify with. And it's also these moments that make something like, say, the revolution special. Not that there isn't plenty of, you know, ugliness because there's always ugliness because that's humanity. But like in this moment where you see John Hancock, he's crestfallen. John Adams though is not looking out for his buddy's selfish interests. He has put the good of this movement, the Congress, the colonies over.

John Hancock wanting to be in charge. And maybe he would have done fine. I honestly doubt it. I feel like the more you get into George Washington's story and even the discussion of replacing him, all those would be replacements. Like Horatio Gates, they end up botching it somewhere in a way that really left me going,

wow, the revolution was done for if the torch had been handed off. He was the right choice. He was the right choice. All his flaws and, because he's not the world's greatest commander. I'm sorry, look at me falling into analysis now. Because he's a human being, right?

And that's what I appreciated about that. Seeing that additional information that got put in helped me connect with him a little bit more. And as I've learned, like I look at a paragraph sometimes and go, oh wow, I can tighten that up, right? And so clip, clip, clip, clip, you're getting just as much information,

but now a 500 word segment becomes a 200 word segment. And I do that throughout the episode. And suddenly I have space to insert another story. So whereas before George Washington, I totally acknowledged that he gave a speech. I cited one of his letters, like the primary sources were there, but yeah, you didn't get all that personal. There wasn't space for it. But now the episode is slightly longer than the original, only by a few minutes.

It's because other sections- You were able to condense them while keeping the information all the same yep it's it's like higher concentration it's it you know um and even as i read through you know i'd read through an original section like yeah that is kind of uh yeah it's fun it's cheeky it's definitely got my my uh you know at times corny uh uh sense of humor on it um and i definitely make sure to keep particularly the well to keep those greg isms as it's sometimes put to me particularly the ones that people have told me that they really loved right like the john hancock and batman oh yeah comparison right like oh i i think i we'd have riots on our hands if i dared to touch that. So I leave that, but I'm able to condense it.

And as I condense it, each and every one of these second edition episodes, they have an additional story or two. And by story, I mean something that I gave you the facts on. Like this most recent one that we did, episode seven. I had to pause and think for a second. I totally acknowledge Canada. General Montgomery gets shot in the neck in Quebec. And Quebec, there's a pronunciation. You know what?

I mulled over that one. Quebec is how you often hear it, right? And that is mental work for me from years. Half of my life, I'm a French speaker, visited Quebec, right? Yeah. And for me, it's Quebec, Les Québécois. So anyhow, another fun pronunciation note. But point being, that's now a scene.

So rather than it being a quick, George Washington's in Cambridge and Canada is happening, you got that sense. By the way, we're back to Cambridge. All those little condensing moments now allow me to go. It's story time. And now we are with Montgomery. In Canada. In Canada as he is torn to shreds by grapeshot.

And there's Aaron Burr, who I mentioned, he tries to pull off the body, but now you can picture vividly, little diminutive almost, Aaron Burr, trying to drag this burly, badass, dead general for whom he's the aide-de-camp, trying to drag him and finally having to realize, this is not happening. I'm physically incapable of this.

I've got to give it up. Yeah. By the way, a fun note, which maybe should be in an epilogue, but the British gave Montgomery a very respectful internment and his body was eventually returned to New York decades later. Always nice. It is. To hear those little things. Well, and the reason for that, I'll go ahead and know is that uh montgomery was a well-respected officer in the british military so that again is part of where the revolution's

as much a civil war we tend to think of it as a revolution and it is but it's a civil war here is this british officer and so many the the men defending quebec in that moment they were heartbroken that he's dead. Yeah. Here's this man that they were fighting. Yeah. But. Somebody that they probably knew him.

They knew him. They respected him. They felt he had, that he'd lost his way. Right? Like. Yeah. Like that. You see this stuff in families, right?

All the time. Someone, they leave the family, the family's traditional, whether it's the faith, politics, they go in the career that they weren't supposed to. They move to a new place. Right, all those things. The love's there, but there's that sense of like,

oh. Why? Yeah. That's exactly how, you know, and so they were just. Yeah, just like you would be. Yeah. That was you in that situation.

So the British were as heartbroken to see, you know, dead. Maybe, I in that situation. So the British were as heartbroken to see, you know, dead. Maybe, I'll say as. Yeah, they were as heartbroken as were those 400 now prisoners of war Americans to see, oh. Montgomery is dead. Yeah. And also in there, Benedict Arnold. Right.

This is his first major injury. So when we get to, you know, to his betrayal, I think that's episode 11. Is it 12? 12. 11 to 12. Okay. 12. I'll take your word for it. It's going to hit harder. Yeah. Right. Because even though I tell you about these things, now you've got that vivid account in episode seven, where you can picture Arnold cheering his men on, telling them attack, attack. He's got two soldiers. His arms are slung over them, right? Two soldiers are dragging him off.

And I can just picture in my mind that left leg of his torn up, ripped apart by a musket ball, hot blood dripping into the snow. And there he is forward, forward, not thinking about himself, right? And those are the things that help us have a more nuanced, careful understanding of, you know, how does this happen? Yeah, how does he become, right? The synonymous with traitor.

Precisely, you know, so loathed that even the statue, as I mentioned in episode nine, right? The statue depicting the heroes of Saratoga, where he has his next major... There's his leg. Yep. Yep. No name. No name.

Just a leg. Just his leg. You know, how do we get to those places? Well, part of it is because of how beloved he was to begin with, right? Yeah. And you get to see that a little bit more now. So, in conclusion, as this process goes on, I become increasingly aware, not that I thought I walked on water when

this started, but I become increasingly aware of my own fallibilities, my own shortcomings, and my love for American history, my desire to not just do a good job, but to do the absolute best I possibly can. The opportunity to be able to bring to life that much more, you know? And get those decibel levels where everyone's ears are happy. And, you know, while we're at it,

yeah, I'm going to go ahead and fix Mobile. And I'm so grateful to Lucy, my dear friend in Tennessee. You know, I do think voices are important. Too many emails from parents telling me how their kids can follow the characters. It makes it easier for me to follow it. Right? Right. I appreciate that as well.

And that's the intention. Never intended to upset anyone, but not just swinging the bat, but going, oh, okay, right. I should train if I can find the time. Or like what I've done when we had Andrew Carnegie. Through this vast network now that we have with the HDS Facebook group, I got in touch with my buddy, Mike, a listener in Boston. Well, I just asked who can help me coach a Scottish accent. And Mike, I have a dear friend and he's Scottish.

He lives in Scotland. Okay. Boom. Connection made, right? So all my imperfections aside, as pleased as I am, as honored as I am to have made these episodes, to have all of you going on this journey with me, I see the opportunity to just make it that much more engaging. And those originals will always be out there, but I'm going to seize that. So I think the pattern that we've fallen into is I'm going to kind of start off every year with a few second editions.

Yeah, I think we did a couple last summer. We did a couple here in January. Yeah, what we did this last year is 4th of July happened to be release day. As you go through the catalog now. Yeah, that doesn't happen super often. We'll unpublish because again, the order is so important. And I know this goes against the grain for how podcasting typically works. But when we do one of these second editions, we'll publish it. We'll leave it there for a number of months. I mean, we don't get rid of it immediately and we don't delete it. But what we do is we just, we make it basically

invisible on the RSS feed. So now it looks like maybe we missed a date. Never have, never will. Publish on holidays, you name it. That's just the perfectionist in me. I can't give myself a break. I just, I won't do it. People tell me to do that. Nope. Nope. Two weeks. Every two weeks. It happens. But it may be that that episode is no longer visible because I want you to be able to listen episode one straight through and it's chronological. That date order is more important than the date on which an episode was released. Yeah. So we'll go back and on the RSS feed replace with this new audio, these older episodes.

Exactly. Exactly. And so anyhow, i think at the beginning of in the new year you can look forward to us doing a a few second editions but then also you know not a ton i definitely don't want to i'll never get done and i do want to actually finish this sunday i i am pressing forward faithfully but know, maybe three or four of these a year. Kind of a small batch of two to three

in January followed by like when I know a release date is on a significant day. So the 4th of July was a great time to do. We jumped ahead

in the order, right? We did episode eight because that was the episode. It was the 4th of July. Yeah. So it just, it was too fitting.

So, you know, naturally we'll look forward to like the date, you know, of the episode. It was the 4th of July. Yeah. So it was too fitting. So, you know, naturally we'll look forward to like the date, you know, of the Donner party. Apparently I'm full of dark humor today. Yeah.

Well, we'll probably not do that, but that'll explain. Occasional, what looks like lapses and dates. Yes. But really there wasn't.

Yeah. It was just one of these second editions. That's right. Kelsey, I've run out of things to say. That's a first. Better, better. Damn it. That was a good one.

You nailed me on that. Better, I've run out of points to make on this topic. Let's go ahead and hang it up, shall we? Yes, we shall. Okay. And so thanks as always for joining me. And thank you, everyone who's listening, for continuing to join me on this far longer journey than I realized I was starting on when I launched this podcast back in 2017. So join me in two weeks.

And wherever this episode's located, I'd like to tell you a story. History That Doesn't Suck is created and hosted by me, Greg Jackson. Production by Airship. Sound design by Molly Bach. Special guest, Kelsey Dines. Theme music composed by Greg Jackson. Arrangement and additional composition by Lindsay Graham of Airship. HTVS is supported by fans at patreon.com forward slash history that doesn't suck.

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Sean Baines, Steve Williams, Creepy Girl, Tisha Black, and Zach Jackson. What did it take to survive an ancient siege? Why was the cult of Dionysus behind so many slaver bolts in ancient Rome? What's the tragic history and mythology behind Japan's most haunted ancient forest? We're Jen and Jenny from Ancient History Fangirl. Join us to explore ancient history and mythology from a fun, sometimes tipsy, perspective. Find us at ancienthistoryfangirl.com or wherever you get your podcasts.