Hits 21 - 1991 (5): U2, Vic Reeves & The Wonder Stuff, Michael Jackson, George Michael & Elton John

Episode Date: January 17, 2025

Hello everyone! Welcome back to Hits 21! It's time for a new season: Hits 21 - The 90s. At the roundtable this week it's Rob, Ed, and Andy! This week - U2's flies come undone, The Wonder Stuff deserve a lot better, Michael Jackson takes on the KKK and the news media, and Ed tries to force the sun to go down. Twitter: @Hits21UK Email: [e-mail]

The End Hi there everyone and welcome back to Hits21 of the 90s where me, Rob, me, Andy and me, Ed are looking back at every single UK number one of the 1990s. If you want to get in touch with us, you can find us over on Twitter. We are at Hits21UK, that is at Hits21UK, and you can email us too. Just send it on over to Hits21Podcast at gmail.com. Thank you ever so much for joining us again. We are currently looking back at the year 1991. This week we'll be covering the period between the 27th of October and the 14th of December because last week I got my dates a little mixed up. I added on a week which wasn't

I shouldn't have done. So we're coming back a couple of days to the 27th of October, but I am absolutely sure this week that we're going up to the period that ends on the 14th of December. So we're getting you as close to Christmas as we possibly can. Last week, the poll winner, he was number one for 16 weeks, but the real quiz, the real win is that Brian Adams won our poll for last week. That's the thing I'm sure he's happiest about in his heart of hearts, wouldn't you say? Was it a landslide? Not particularly, no. There were votes for the other songs but Bryan Adams did walk away with it in the end. Fair do. It's not like anyone was robbed really is it? Not particularly. So it is time to press on with this week's episode and here

are some news headlines from the end of October until the middle of December 1991. On November 23rd, Freddie Mercury, the lead singer of Queen, announces that he has been privately battling HIV AIDS for several years, following months of media speculation about his health and the very next day on November 24th Mercury dies aged 45 at his home in London and a funeral service is held at West London Crematorium four days later. Robert Maxwell the owner of numerous businesses including the Daily Mirror is found dead off the coast of Tenerife having apparently fallen from his yacht. Two IRA members are killed in St Albans when the bomb they were planning to plant in the town explodes prematurely.

And computer retailer PC World opens its first branch in Croydon. Asda and Tesco are among many businesses that open their doors on Sunday, flouting UK trading laws in a bid to boost sales after the recession. In football, the United States wins the first ever Women's World Cup, held in China. And in America, NBA star Magic Johnson announces that he has been diagnosed with HIV, effectively ending his career in basketball. The films to hit the top of the UK box office during this period were as follows. City Slickers for one week, the Fisher King

for two weeks, Point Break for two weeks, Hotshots for one week, before the Addams Family closes out the year for two weeks. Kate Winslet makes her first on-screen appearance in six-part series Dark Season on the BBC. And the BBC begins broadcasting via satellite to the Pearl River Delta in China. Noel's House Party debuts on the BBC, while Channel 4 is the controversial documentary The Holy Family Album.

The Tom Hanks film Big debuts on British TV. Leonard Nimoy guest stars as Spock in a special episode of Star Trek The Next Generation It's shit And the music video for Michael Jackson's new single Black or White causes controversy after the final four minutes to pick the singer vandalising a car The video was broadcast simultaneously on MTV, VH1, BET and Fox Andy the UK album charts, how are they looking?

Well we start this period with Eurasia at number one, with Chorus, which we mentioned last week, which went single Platinum, and that was overtaken by Stars by Simply Red, which I'm going to be mentioning quite a lot over the next couple of episodes because that is just in and out all the time. The biggest album of 1991, as I mentioned last week, 12 times Platinum, back at number one for one week. And then we've got Greatest Hits II by Queen, which was released on the 9th of... well, not released on 9th of November, it reached number one on 9th of November, just two weeks before Freddie Mercury passed away. And seemingly a complete coincidence that that was released then.

And that went five times platinum and was number one for one week. That's then replaced by Enya of all people with Shepherd Moons, which went number one for one week and went four times platinum. Then we've got my favourite band in the world, Genesis, with We Can't Dance, which went number one for one week. week that went five times platinum and then we get Michael Jackson at number one for one week with Dangerous which went six times platinum lots of big hefty successful releases in this period lots of big things but then after Freddie Mercury passes away that obviously dominates everything on both the singles and the albums chart and from the start of December all the way through to the start of January 1992, Greatest Hits II returns to the number one spot for a further four weeks.

And as I say, eventually going five times platinum. So America, Ed, how are things there? A fairly varied period, actually. Not to begin with though, albums wise, Garth Brooks dominates November with his ropey wind, still hanging in there, before a week of state of the art posturing from some Irishman with Actung Baby, which is probably saying something about globalization,

but I don't really care. But it's all right, it's all right, it's all right. It mysteriously moves aside for three weeks of state-of-the-art posturing for the King of Pop. It's Michael Jackson. Is there really much more to say? Singles. November the 2nd sees Karen White getting romantic, but it all ends prematurely with cream. Two weeks of it, alarmingly, with Prince and his new power generation proving he did, in fact, make some music that people listened to after the year 1988.

Then Michael Bolton sucks so much with his cover of Percy Sledge's When a Man Loves a Woman that they had to redesign the whole chart system to ensure it never happened again. Welcome to the Nielsen sound scan era, whatever that means. It heralds a new dawn, PM Dawn to be exact, with the promising sounding set adrift on memory bliss

from their debut album titled Of the Heart, Of the Soul and Of the Cross The Utopian Experience Oh finally it's a week of Michael Jackson followed by a week of Michael Jackson which takes us through to mid December Back to you Rob. Alright then thank you both very much for those reports and we are gonna get into the first of FOUR songs this week. It's a bumper episode because we're right up against Christmas.

And the first of those four... Is this! Oh baby, it's you It's no secret that the stars are falling from the sky It's no secret that our world is in darkness tonight They say the sun is sometimes eclipsed by a moon You know I don't see you when she walks in the room It's no secret that a friend is someone who lets you out It's no secret that a liar won't believe anyone else

They say a secret is something you tell another person So don't tell anyone, just let it out Ooh, we're shining like a burning star Okay, this is The Fly by U2. Released as the lead single from the band's seventh studio album, titled Act Young Baby, The Fly is U2's sixteenth single overall to be released in the UK and their second to reach number one, and it isn't the last time we'll be coming to U2 during our 90s coverage. The Fly went straight in at number one as a brand new entry.

It stayed at number one for one week. In its first and only week atop the charts, it sold 66,000 copies, beating competition from No Son of Mine by Genesis, which got to number 9, and Go by Moby, which climbed to number 10. When it was knocked off the top of the charts, The Fly dropped one place to number 2. The song was removed from sales in its third week on the chart, which meant that by the time it was done on the charts it had been inside the top 100 for just six weeks. The song is currently, however, officially certified silver in the UK as of 2025, that's based on that pre-Kantar data that we mention so much and will be mentioning until at least 1994. So Andy, kick us off

with The Fly. Oh well, since you asked. Don't worry, I won't be long on this one. We've got four songs to get through and this was, perhaps surprisingly, considering some of the other stuff we've got lined up this week. Not the worst of this week, but it was for me certainly the least memorable of the four this week. It's the one that I've had to revisit the most times to form an opinion on it, for two reasons, one of which is that it's the one I know the least well, but also just because I think it's quite hard to get substance out of this a lot of the time and I find that problem with you two generally if

I'm honest. This is definitely a me thing because we've discussed them I think three times in the noughties and all of them to some varying degree I found that they're just not really for me to be honest Some combination of Bono as a front man doesn't really gel with me A lot of kind of style of substance in certain places And I'm not a huge fan of the kind of forms that they tend to use in their songs a lot of the time as well. All of which is kind of evident with this one to be honest. I will say straight off that this isn't going in the pie hole or anything because I do think Mostly has a really lovely sound

and I'm kind of taken away with the atmosphere of this. The one aspect of the sound that I really don't like is that extremely heavy flange thing they do to Bono's voice. I don't know if it wears off throughout or if I just get more used to it throughout but the thing that they do to his voice is distracting to say the least. It certainly dates this but overall I think there's a nice stadium rock sound to it and you know you can easily put this on in the background and wouldn't have any complaints about it at all. I just struggle with this for like active listening and I was trying to figure out what is it what's not working about

this to me and I realized it's one of two songs this week to varying degrees that sort of don't have a chorus and I find that a bit of a problem. This has a thing that kind of acts as a chorus but they forget about it on more than one occasion and it's more of a refrain than a chorus really. It's more of a kind of just little bit in between the sections rather than a chorus of any real kind and I don't think that you know everything needs a chorus, the whole song should be the same, far from it, but this song needs something to tie it together because it has great momentum building throughout but it's sort of like a plane that is always flying and never lands or you know like if you're sort of always

running and you never stop to take a breath it's just it's kind of just always going and never actually finds the big beats to land on for me. So it just it just didn't really resonate with me in the way that it should. Which I was quite disappointed by because I was not hugely familiar with with either this or a lot of you do stuff in the 80s, to be honest. So I thought, oh, maybe I like them more than the 90s and 90s incarnations. Maybe I'll really get into this. And there was great potential there. Like, I really do like that sound.

But as an actual piece of songwriting, I think the execution is way off. So it's basically two things at once really, which is that it's got great component elements to it, but the whole is not there for me, unfortunately. Yeah, sorry. It's a bit of a thumbs in the middle for me on this one, yeah. Alright then, Ed, what about you? Yeah, I was raised in the era before Coldplay took over from U2 as the sort of big omnipresent stadium band you were just supposed to, you know, thumb your nose at.

But, you know, I just thought I knew that was unfair, or at least I thought that was unfair. So I kind of tried to go through their discography, perhaps in a similar way to Andy from the 80s onwards. And I kind of, I just, I don't really feel that much different. I admit, I sort of tapped out in the mid nineties because I just, it's not that I, I didn't actively dislike anything. It's just nothing really engaged to me that much. And I've got to say, I don't think I actually have

much different to say in my appraisal than Andy does. It sounds great. I love the sound of this. I love the sound of the guitars and things. I mean, Edge is a very interesting guitarist. He was never like a fret wanker, as they say. He always had cool sounds and he used effects to create sort of really epic soundscapes.

But the problem is that's what this kind of feels like. It feels like a very kind of stylish, post-modern kind of feels like. It feels like a very kind of stylish post-modern kind of soundscape rather than a song that actually fully resonates with me. And yeah, echoing Andy's sentiments on the chorus or absence of it, I'm not 100% sure it's that the chorus is missing. It's just that the vocals oddly seem to be trying to bury themselves beneath effects and the sound of the song. It feels more like a mood piece or like a sound collage than anything else.

What really struck me about this, though, wasn't... You know, it had been a while since I'd been through the U2 catalogue. What shocked me was how kind of baggy-ish this sounds. A bit sort of madchester-y. And I just was used to U2 not really sounding, to their credit, quite like anyone else going at something. They always sound like U2. They always pushed their sound. I've always given them credit for that.

They never stood still. There are songs by them that I really like. Some of the early ones are New Year's Day, I really dig. The Unforgettable Fire. But part of that is the sound and the atmosphere. And I don't get much more out of it than that. It doesn't feel ironically like this huge edge beneath all of the cool sound design.

And that's awful, sorry. I feel similarly that there's a sense of kind of post-modern style to U2, but I'm never quite sure what it is they're actually trying to articulate. Let people say, oh, they're obviously, you know, it's a mockery of stadium rock. It's subverting that kind of posturing.

And it's like, okay, it looks very impressive. That's a cool stage set. And the production is awesome. But sure, it does feel a bit like it's obscuring itself behind sunglasses so you can't see its true motives most of the time. Well that's interesting because I am a lot more positive on this than both of you.

I'll just start at the beginning of my notes, you know we've talked about U2 a couple of times on the podcast before, two or three times, and as much as that era of U2, sort of in the 2000s, that ended up meaning a lot more to me personally. You know, you can listen back to those episodes if you want to re-jog your memory. I was always a little bit sad that we didn't get to discuss their 80s or 90s stuff in sort of our earlier iterations, because as much as Atomic Bomb was around a very important phase of my childhood, the first kind of end point of my childhood I suppose, my two favourite U2 albums are The Unforgettable Fire and Actong Baby. The reason

I put them both above things like The Joshua Tree and War for me is because U2 I think have always had a bit of an issue with momentum carrying through their albums. They know how to write absolutely killer singles and put together enough songs for an amazing live setlist, but once the singles are out of the way on the Joshua tree, I don't think the material is as strong as it could be. I kind of blame Kirsty McColl for that because they went to her and said, um, where the streets have no name is going to open it and then the rest, just put them in the order that you like them. Like you know, best at the top, worst at the bottom, that sort of thing. And that's why I think the Joshua Tree kind of runs out of steam after things like Bullet

the Blue Sky and whatever. But that's a problem not just with the Joshua Tree, that's a problem with most of their albums actually where side A is always significantly stronger than side B except on the unforgettable fire and Act on Baby. And Act on Baby to me remains experimental and interesting and futuristic and thoroughly postmodern until the very kind of final stretches you know and on side B you've got this, the fly, you've got mysterious waves, you've got ultraviolet, and that's after you've had, you know, the real thing and One, which I wish we were discussing over this because One is way up there as being one of my favourite YouTube songs,

but Until the End of the World, etc. You know, so I think Acton Baby is the most successful rebrand that YouTube ever did, and they carried it across really well on record. The sessions for the album weren't particularly harmonious, apparently, but the product that they finalized is something new for U2, after all the pompous peacocking of Rattle and Hum, which is half a decent studio album and half a live gig that I didn't go to, don't want to be reminded of and don't care about. But I think that in their years of reflection since 1988, they have been paying attention to a lot of British music since around 1989 in a bid to reinvent themselves. Because I was waiting to see if either of you two would pick this up and Eddie was straight there. Loads of baggy and madchester with stuff like this, bits of alternative dance and Grebo.

You know, dynamically and sonically it sets a completely new path for you two, away from the 80s American obsession. I don't think it's a bad thing that Grunge is about to completely take over, but I am curious about the version of the 90s that this, that the fly teases, where stuff was more influenced by Nine Inch Nails rather than Nirvana. And you know, like, cause there's a world where there's another band who were just as big as Smashing Pumpkins, but weren't influenced by Nirvana. They were influenced more by Nine Inch Nails or Baggy or Alternative Dance,

because there are all sorts in the fly of intriguing flavors and textures Bono is cycling through stream of consciousness stuff about temptation and sin and the couplet in the third verse I've always been a fan of as well. The no secret that a conscience could sometimes be a pest It's no secret ambition bites the nails of success You know it all feels suited to his new image because as you also mentioned Ed this is when he starts wearing those big fly like sunglasses and never ever ever takes them off ever again for now it's just an image change as opposed to the monster he becomes but they managed to keep this fresh for now and they interject with those gnarly funky verses, you know, the...

And then I think I disagree with you both. I think the chorus is really tranquil. Feels like it's gliding. That organ that pops in and Bono's delicate falsetto, I think it works together. Agree that the vocals are a little bit muffled and that I probably need to look the lyrics up but the feeling and the atmosphere is so has always struck me it's always been very strong Acton Baby was kind of not really a U2 album I grew up with because my mum wasn't 100% keen on U2's kind of 90s material so I had their 80 1980 to 1990 best of album uh with the boy in the helmet on the front and then they also owned all the can't leave behind and Atomic bomb and then they kind of eventually bought the 1990 to 2000 compilation with the the cows or the Buffalo on the front of it

I think so act on baby isn't one I have much sentimental attachment to is one I've kind of had to learn to love over time. I came to it later and found out that, you know, Zuroper and Pop and stuff, like they, you know, the U2's 90s stuff kind of has stuff going for it. I'm not massive on Zuroper and Pop, to be honest. I feel like Acton Baby does set a bit of a template for U2 in the 90s where they start to prioritize texture over songwriting. The songwriting's still here, on The Fly, and on Acton Baby generally, but on Zeropa and Pop, we'll be coming back to U2 in this phase again in about five or six years where the sunglasses have started to creep into Bono's brain like venom. And I also think as well that The Fly's influences are a little bit obvious to me.

I'd probably prefer to just listen to what the best of this is made up of. Things like Fool's Gold by the Stone Roses or Bits of Nine Inch Nails but in this moment I actually think you two are operating at their most creative. They've kind of dropped all the heartland rock posturing and they've gone back to the drawing board for something new, something fresh and it's interesting to watch a band kind of build itself up from the ground again after taking some constructive feedback and kind of taking it on board. This is a breath of fresh air I think in their discography, one of their best songs. I'm fairly big on U2, not as big as other people,

but I'm glad that we get to at least discuss Acton Baby in some capacity, which I'm quite pleased about. So, yeah, I guess we can shift on if no one has anything more to say. Well, I just want to say that was very well, very well disassembled, Rob. And I think I basically, oddly agree with everything you're saying. I think you put it really well. It's just the Finnish song just refuses to find a place in my consciousness. I know you feel that way about you two generally anyway, where like you've always

I know from, you know, the time that we've been friends and discussing music and stuff, whenever you two come up, you're sort of like, well, yeah, I, you know, I know from the time that we've been friends and discussing music and stuff, whenever you two come up you're sort of like, well yeah, I like him and I appreciate him, but the love isn't there kind of thing. Alright then, we will move on to the second song this week, which is... THIS! I'm so dizzy, my head is spinning Like a whirlpool, it never ends And it's you, girl, making it spin You're making me dizzy The first time that I saw you, girl, I knew that I just had to make you mine But it's so hard to talk to you with fellas hanging round you all the time

I want you for my sweet bed but you keep playing hard to get And I'm going round in circles all the time I'm dizzy I'm so dizzy my head is spinning Like a whirlpool it never ends And it's you girl making it spin Okay, this is Dizzy by Vic Reeves and the Wonderstuff. Released as the second single from his first and only studio album titled I Will Cure You, Dizzy is the second single overall to be released

by Vic Reeves in the UK and his first to reach number one. This is also the first and only number one for The Wonder Stuff. The single is a cover of the song originally released by Tommy Rowe which reached number one in 1969. Dizzy first entered the UK charts at number six, reaching number 1 during its third week. It stayed at number 1 for… TWO WEEKS! In its first week atop the charts, it sold 64,000 copies, beating competition from If You Were With Me Now by Kylie Minogue and Keith Washington, which climbed to number

7, and Rhythm Is A Mystery 91 by K-Class, which got to number 8. And in week 2 it sold 61,000 copies, beating competition from Is There Anybody Out There by Bassheads, which got to number 8, and It's Grim Up North by The Justified Ancients of Moo Moo, which climbed to number 10. When it was knocked off the top of the charts, Dizzy dropped one place to number 2. By the time it was done on the charts it had been inside the top 100 for 12 weeks. The song is currently officially certified silver in the UK as of 2025 but that is based on that pre-Cantart data. So, Ed, lead us in with Dizzy, hopefully in a

straight line. Well, do you know what? When I first put on the playlist that takes me through the tracks we're going to be reviewing, the intro came onto this and I'm like, oh, this is cool. Really punchy, straight in there. I'm like, oh, that intro is great. That is probably the best six, seven seconds of the song. And you know what's sad? And it's probably the only time, well it is from what you said Rob, that we're gonna cover the Wonder Stuff.

And I've come to the conclusion that they deserve a bit better than this. I mean, they released a pretty fierce, punchy, psych-infused debut album in 1988. They were a bit ahead of the game. It was very tight songwriting. They were really, you know, really together musical unit. Lots of cool rhythmic ideas. They were good. But this is their lasting chart statement, it would seem. And as I've mentioned before, I can't remember who we were talking about, but there's nothing quite worse than misrepresentation in a hit.

If somebody has one hit and it tells you something about them that isn't actually reflective of their general career. And this does it for two artists, as it were, both the Wonderstuff, whose early work I think has been largely forgotten, which is a shame I think, and to Vic Reeves, who fortunately I think this has largely been forgotten in the wake of his later career. Vic Reeves is a terrible singer. Andy, we were talking about this the other day. I gather that he really, you know, this wasn't a passion project. It was pretty much just a publicity

exercise like a lot of his musical endeavors, it would would seem but yeah, it's a novelty cover of Pretty much a novelty single which well everybody kind of remembers it it's got that sort of Bend me shape me kind of aspect of 60s pop which is songs. Oh good shows catchy and people remember but everyone's like Yeah, and they wouldn't really put it on. It sort of represents the era in a kind of fast food-y kind of way. I'm also always alarmed it came out in 1969. It sounds very mid-60s sort of the Dave Clark five-ish sort of stuff to me, but, eh.

Oh, well, the production is good, I guess. But a lot of that, I think, is just due to the fact that the Wonderstuff are giving it far more welly than it deserves. They're really trying against the drag factor of how bad Vic Reeves sounds, because it doesn't even add anything. It's not even a comedic song. I

mean it's got crappy like my first random visual imagery as I recall when they performed it live. It's like oh they've got a washing machine on stage. Wacky wacky woo. And it's like Thicke Reeves is better than that. He's genuinely weird in a really good way. So yeah, there's no comedy to the actual song itself. I mean, Vic Reeves vainly, sorry, Jim Moyer, vainly kind of tries to inject a bit of spontaneous comedy at the end by putting in the line, I'm so bloody dizzy. And it's like, how spontaneous and joyful. This is a waste of time and it is a disservice to both of the attached artists. I agree with you Ed that when I first click, not really knowing much about this, I first

click play on it and thought, ooh hey, Powerpot meets Manchester, let's go and then it just starts to hurt. Actually, it really hurts. I have quite physical, visible reactions to all of the key changes in this, and it has so many of them. And I get that that's the point, but the 1960s Tommy Rowe version is part of a, you know, a psychedelic classic pop scene that slows things right down

and you're caught in the haze, I think, of the love and the lust, and the key changes feel more like mood swings with the, you know, the rhythm section is present but not overbearing and so you're kind of able to focus a bit more on the movements and the changes and ooh, and you know, it's like looking at a Magic Eye poster or whatever. This version slaps a really robotic and propulsive drum track behind everything, speeds it all up and then that means you get no time to adjust to the key changes or even prepare for them and every single one of them feels like I'm being repeatedly stabbed and

Vic Reeves decision, sorry, Jim Moir, whatever, Moir, Moir His decision to bellow out most of this like a pub singer means you left kind of willing him on instead of getting lost in the woozy means you're left kind of willing him on instead of getting lost in the woozy atmosphere. Like I don't have much on this, this is just not for me at all. I find it bewildering. I appreciate the baggy influences and the little powerpuff influences and stuff, but I don't know if I can really separate this much from the stonk to be honest. This just feels like an awkward in-joke that got loose somehow and then everyone bought into it for two weeks.

This week I've seen a lot, actually the last two weeks, I've seen a lot of Americans proudly discussing British pop in the wake of the Robbie Williams film that's come out and the fact that it's bombed because they've spent loads of money on it and they expected Americans to even know who he is when Robbie Williams himself is, you know, he lives in Los Angeles and he says I go around and no one has a clue who I am. I go to all these fancy places and the paparazzi are there and they're not sure if they want to take pictures of me or not whether I'm just some bloke that's turning up. But the film's decent, I don't like music biopics just as a kind of rule for me really apart from a couple of rule for me, really,

apart from a couple. But Better Man, you know, it makes an effort with, you know, it tries to play on the genre conventions a bit, do something a bit different, subvert it. It's a decent movie. But the pride with which Americans are declaring their ignorance of who Robbie Williams is has pushed me very very close to just like you know doing the kind of you know rule Britannia kind of thing because I really

hate it when Americans discuss uniquely British pop it's only worse when they discuss British rap so I've been listening to this this week kind of thinking this is shit and I wish it hadn't got to number one but then there's also been this little part of me that we bring up on the podcast every now and again where it's like isn't it good sometimes that novelty stuff like this can get to number one in the middle of superstars U2 and Michael Jackson? Like is it not good? And so I've been torn all week, this shit song that I'm going to piehole, that I can't

stand. I have been feeling awkwardly defensive of it because of the Americans that have been exposed to me on social media. The proudly ignorant Americans who are like, you know those old people where like, and actually they're getting younger and younger, this kind of people in Britain, where something will happen in the news about somebody and they'll comment and go well well I've never heard of him or well I've never heard of her so they mustn't be that important that kind of proud like you know rejection by total dismissal like trying to undermine you know the the newsworthiness of this person and there's been so much of that about Robbie Williams and British pop in general it's like well why would

we listen to anything that the Brits do? And then they listen to his music once and they're like, oh, well, he's not even good. Like, why would I go and see this film? This kind of proud obliviousness, if you will. And this, I feel like something like this being a big deal in Britain in 1991. If you showed it to an American now, they would have the exact of the same reaction where it's like, well, I've never heard of it. So what good is it to me? And so I have been torn this week But ultimately I have to kind of you know Imagine myself if we were doing this six months ago, and I hadn't been exposed to all of this awful yank business That I would still be pie-holing it. So sorry Jim Vic Andy dizzy

Yeah, first of all on the Robbie Williams better man thing, couldn't agree more with that. That's been really annoying me as well. And I would say it's actually further than ignorance, really, that's what's been bothering me about it. That definitely, you know, like a willful ignorance, like you've been saying, but the phrase I would use is this sort of American exceptionalism

that there's been about it, where even when you tell people no no no it's not just that he's famous here he's like really famous he's had like eight number ones he's like it's like our Justin Timberlake like he's massive here not just famous and like this response has just been like yeah but like why should we care so it's not like it's not even so much ignorance it's more the sort of denial that anyone can possibly be famous if they're not famous in America that you don't matter if you're not famous in America and I don't like that one bit not even at the tiniest little bit it's horrible

it's just a lack of curiosity if I if there was some American pop star who I'd never heard of who had a film out I'd be like oh I wonder who these guys are I could learn something them. But there is this kind of thing on social media where it's like, you don't have to learn. If it's not in your little bubble, it doesn't matter. Don't learn about it. Don't be curious. Just hold yourself tightly in your little echo chamber and you don't have to worry about anything.

Just people who tell you that you're right all the time. But sorry, Andy, carry on. No, no, it's fine. It's fine. And like, yeah, it's the lack of curiosity, but also like the just total acceptance of, I say acceptance because it's not true though, of the idea that if you're not famous in America, then you're just not famous. We'll stop. And so people have been saying like, what the hell is this movie? Like they think we're

going to care about this random person. This is hilarious. And have been making like a joke figure out of Robbie Williams. And for one, just like it's just absurd it's like he's on the level of anyone in the UK he's one of the biggest pop stars we've ever had and then I think the other thing that really annoys me is that they don't see it doesn't seem to care to them at all that they have pop stars that are only famous there that just because you're famous in America doesn't mean you're famous everywhere else how many people in this country can name anything by Garth Brooks you know and he's one of their biggest selling songs ever.

So yes, completely agree on that. That was a huge sideline, but I completely agree on that. And it's been annoying me. And I also agree, I think as we've said a few times, I completely agree with you Rob about the need for novelty pop to instil variety and a sense of humility about the UK charts. That anyone can do it, that you can't walk in and buy your way to number one. That anyone, regardless regardless of quality regardless of experience and regardless of credibility can do it and that's its own credibility to get to number one and so I like it when stuff like this makes it not because it's good which it isn't but because I just like the idea that I could write a song one day maybe it'll

burst out and it'll get number one and it doesn't even need to be any good it'll just catch into the zeitgeist maybe it'll happen who knows might release a Christmas single this year we'll see it would be better than this Andy this is fairly bankrupt from a vision perspective isn't it well I mean I don't think it's like the worst thing in the world I don't think it's that bad I agree that that it starts well, has a nice sound at the start and I'm glad that throughout the episode that Manchester has been mentioned a few times because this is obviously not quite that but it's in that sort of area that there is a place for this sort of thing. Definitely sits alongside some of that and I think it's not

a huge distance away from something like Sit Down by James you know that kind of sound it's it's definitely like there's a place for this kind of music at the top of the charts but Jim Moyer aka Vic Reeves where I'm gonna continue calling him Jim Moyer for all of this there is no point at any moment in this song where he is not 100% obviously the comedian Jim Moyer he doesn't attempt to do any kind of voice that's a bit more pop friendly at all it's just obviously him in a way that you know say Peter Kay's had number one singles in the North East and you wouldn't immediately know that it's Peter Kay not straight away actually has he had

number ones or is he just had Charlton singles down myself did he ever get a number one in the North East that's That's him singing. 500 miles. When I wake up. Oh that's the character. As I'm saying I'm thinking like Geraldine McQueen and like you can't immediately immediately tell that it's Peter Kay but this it's like yep I know exactly who that is you can put this in a pub quiz and be able to tell you straight away and I know that for a fact because the first time I heard this was about four or five years ago when I was going to be able to tell you straight away. And I know that for a fact because the first time I heard this was about four or five years ago when I was going through an old Now album, whichever one this is on, where it came on. And I was walking through Piccadilly Gardens, I remember,

and I was like, is that Vic Reeves singing? And I pulled out, and yes, it was. I had a look and yes, it was, and I was quite proud of myself for figuring it out. And that's a problem for me, that it's never anything other than completely obvious that this is some random Comedian doing a pop song for some reason which does somewhat diminish the credibility of it. It's also like I Feel like this is ready-made assembled for the market of a billion and one you've been framed clips to come of like any moment on TV where you need to soundtrack someone being a

bit drunk or falling over or dropping something you've got dizzy by Vic Reeves and Wonderstuff you know it's just like it's sort of ready-made for that sort of thing like it's it's just in that kind of insipid middle ground but has a characteristic about it sort of market and I don't think that Jim Way would have been completely naive to that to be honest because this is what Ed was referring to before that I had a conversation with you to the other week you to the people not the band and a conversation with you a few the week about how you paid on nevermind the Buzzcocks was and was asked about the

new single he was releasing which was the theme tune to Shaun the sheep which he sings he really does sing the theme tunes show the sheep on the show and Simon Ansel says right so is that for charity and he just goes no move on I just kind of admire that brazenness of like no I make a bit of money make a bit of money I actually that's always stuck with me though because that happened in a time where it was like it was really kind of taboo to not Do something for charity like that was like X Factor Hero and you are not alone and stuff and you always did it for charity But no, he just didn't at all. He just has a business brain, which I quite like to be honest

I thought that was quite an oddly endearing quality to just be so openly capitalist in a world where we don't allow that from our celebrities. But I'm clutching a straw to find good stuff because like, yes, it's tacky as hell, it's silly as hell, it's novelty as hell. It was quite shameful to be heard listening to this walking down the street, to be honest. I don't want to listen to it again and it's never anything other than what it is there's no showmanship to this it's just a comedian and a band having a laugh getting a number one and here it is forever us to talk about it 34 years later thanks guys for nothing yes not great this one no all right then so the third song this week, but not the final song, is this. Oh! I took my baby on a Saturday night But if I go with you, you'll pay what I say Now I believe in miracles And I'm here before the sun's been tonight If you're feeling the fire, baby, it don't matter if you're black or white

You print my message in the side of the sun I had to tell them I ain't striking them down And I told about equality And it's true, either you're rogue or you're right Okay, this is Black or White by Michael Jackson. Released as the lead single from his eighth studio album titled Dangerous. Black or White is Michael Jackson's 36th single overall to be released in the UK and his fourth to reach number one, and it's not the last time we'll be coming to Mr Jackson during our 90s coverage. Black or White went straight in at number 1 as a brand new entry. It stayed at number

1 for… 2 WEEKS! In its first week atop the charts, it sold 72,000 copies beating competition from Active 8 by Altern 8 which climbed to number 4, The Killer EP by Seal which climbed to number 8, Playing With Knives by Bizarre Incorporated which got to number 9. And When a Man Loves a Woman by Michael Bolton which climbed to number 10. And in week 2 it sold 67,000 copies beating competition from Ride Like the Wind by Eastside Beat which got to number 6. Smells Like Teen Spirit by Nirvana, which got to number 9, and When You Tell Me That

You Love Me by Diana Ross, which got to number 10. When it was knocked off the top of the charts, Black or White dropped one place to number 2. The song originally left the charts in 1992, but re-entered the charts in 2006 and 2009. By the time it was done on the charts it had been inside the top 100 for 18 weeks. The song is currently officially certified platinum in the UK as of 2025 but I think that's probably been recalculated since considering it re-entered the charts years hence. Andy, black or white, Michael Jackson? Yes, so I mean I've been relatively brief on the two songs before this but I think,

and I emphasise think here, think I'm going to have a lot more to say about this one because this is an odd thing, this has a lot to unpack in it and actually, truthfully, you know, through the week I've not been sure whether I'm going to go on for war and peace about this and make this a two hour episode, let's hope not, or whether I'll, you know, just wuss out of it and be talking for about 30 seconds because there is a lot to get into with this one, both good and bad. Most of it good, I should say, most of it good, I do like this. But this is interesting.

Interesting because it's a topic that obviously deserves discussion. And I should say straight off, you know, I'm not going to be making any kind of judgments about the validity of that message because, you know, I'm a white guy, I'm a very white guy. It's not for me to make any judgment on that. But also because he has such a unique perspective on race, given, you know, what was happening to him at that time. But then it has this odd quality where it doesn't really have that much to say.

And I've been reading a bit more about Michael Jackson's views on this and what he was trying to do with this song at the time, which makes it even more unusual, to be honest, than we've got the actual musical side, the song itself, which, again, I think has some really interesting aspects to it. So I'll try and unpack this. Obviously the central message of you know a sort of visceral kind of anger frustration that years later as he's entering his 30s you know he gets getting angry at the idea that race is still such a hot button issue that it's still a talking point that people are still judging him by the colour of his skin

Important point here that obviously the colour of his skin is something that is uniquely a talking point for Michael Jackson at this point Because of what's going on there, he has vitiligo, that his skin tone is noticeably changing I don't think at this point the public know that it's vitiligo, I think they're just kind of wondering what's going on with his skin tone at this point the public know that it's Vitelligo, I think they're just kind of wondering what's going on with this skin tone at this stage, but although this is you know more of a general message about racial equality and about how he doesn't like how we're still dividing people down the lines of color, it's obviously a subtext there that he's tired of being asked about his skin as well and what's happening with him, which makes it all the more odd that he doesn't really have anything radical to say, to be honest. A lot of what he says is like, yeah, I feel the

emotion here. I feel the kind of I feel the kind of grit that you're trying to give this and absolutely agree with everything he's saying. Like it is bloody frustrating that people get reduced to a colour and it is really frustrating that here in the nineties where we're decades on from civil rights and stuff we're still having these conversations and of course in the 2020s we're not really much further on to be honest and you know obviously completely on board with that obviously everything he says in the songs completely agreeable and completely supportive but he has this odd effect sometimes Michael Jackson where he he

will pick something big the ultimate example being the Earth song, which we'll get to, another point, spoilers though, you know, we will get to that at some point, but that's hilarious really, where he decides to just sort of list all of the problems in the world all at once and try and just sort of solve them in one song with just like, why don't we just sort it out, eh? Why don't we just fix it? You know, he's sort of given Anakin Skywalker an attack of the clones energy, where he's describing how he wants politics to be to a baffled Padme.

You know, it sort of feels a bit like that in the Earth's Tongues, and there's a little bit of that in this. And I really, really wish he'd had more to say, because I've read about, you know, that he really, really genuinely had no idea why people were so interested in it. He's like, I don't understand

why people keep asking me about this. Don't understand why people want to know if I'm using bleach or whatever. What does it matter? Like, do they think it's important what the color of my skin is? And like, yes, I get I get that. Obviously, people shouldn't care what the color of his skin is, but they do. And to some extent, like I say, I'm not I'm not going to cast any judgments on the validity of this message, but it does, unfortunately, matter

to a lot of people, even if it doesn't matter to you. So I was left a little bit sort of wishing for a bit more from the actual text of the song. But it's hugely lifted by the fact that musically, this is brilliant. Like, there's some really, really great ideas in this. Like, the production is fabulous, but that guitar, the two different guitar elements in this, first of all that repeating like the but more so than that that acoustic guitar that then comes underneath that like closing off every phrase of it. Just a really just perfect hook that I don't really have any other way to describe it's just a really excellent musical hook to the song that with different bits of light and shade

from the grit of the electric guitar to the smoothness of the acoustic, that verse melody is an extremely well developed melody that's really fun to sing along to that's more memorable than any other melody in the song is that opening melody. I took my baby, you know, it's just really, really catchy that. Not everything about the music itself is brilliant. I do think that Michael's diction is really poor on some of this. There were quite a few lines where I had to look up the lyrics because it is very, very hard to discern those lyrics from

his diction sometimes. I also think as well that we're sort of in the peak era as the Simpsons will identify right around this time we are sort of in the peak era of throwing in hee hee and ta and and ha, shamona and we're really throwing in a lot of those for no reason in this. Actually maybe it's not the peak I think maybe the bad era might be the peak of that to be honest where there's a lot of And oh, so I don't like that about it, but I love that melody I love how it sounds great great guitar work or it will take it our great guitar riff on it I even think that the rap element has value to it. I think that's

like something that's a little bit different for Michael Jackson and it's totally valid in the song. Like I enjoyed listening to that bit and it's really brief, doesn't intrude on the song all that much despite the fact that things really really went downhill for him around this time and onwards with his music. I think at this stage, at least, you certainly still can't doubt his vision and his dedication and his amount of ideas that come pouring out of him. That's something that I've always enjoyed.

I think no matter what you might think of him on a personal level, and that's a whole different topic, obviously, because, you know, understandably, a lot of people don't have a nice word to say about him now which i think is completely fair but i think almost everybody begrudgingly at least accept that he sort of was a little bit of a genius in terms of music like some of his stuff in late 70s early 80s even into the late 80s it's just absolutely phenomenally imaginative hugely innovative completely unique and paving the way in many, many different ways. And that's all the more reason for me to expect him to really, really, you know, make a statement of intent here. But maybe I'm expecting too

much from him with that. But yeah, as you can see, hard for me to settle my opinion on this. And I said to you two earlier this week that, you know, but my opinion always comes down to, well, well, this is fair enough, but, or, you know, on the other hand of it, like, well, I have problems with this, but, you know, it's really like the scales tip constantly with this one, but huge amounts of interest in this one. This, for me, probably the song this week

I found the hardest to talk about and put notes together for because sometimes in these kinds of scenarios like with Black or White, where we've been before, I just want to kind of put my hands up and go, yep, well-constructed pop song, not great but good, don't love it but do enjoy it and just kind of move on. But I think because it's Michael Jackson, its strengths and weaknesses are sort of more interesting by default, because the things it gets right are worth looking at in more detail than the things that it gets wrong are worth interrogating because of the mind that made those mistakes. I think this comes after

Michael Jackson's peak, I completely agree, where the physical freedom and kind of looseness of his earlier solo material, at least from off the wall onwards, is kind of replaced by quite a stiff sense of paranoia. There's less live-tracked instrumentation and more drum machines, less disco, more New Jack Swing. And he's also developing a little bit of a martyr complex as his ongoing war with the press continues. And I guess this is where Black or White comes in. First off, I completely agree with you, Andy. That introductory guitar line, Oh My God, played by Tim Pierce, love the tight harmonies between the strings, the sense of genuine fun,

like you're skipping through flowers or something. It feels utopian, weirdly, which I guess is what the song wants, a world where every color and creed is free to love, whoever they want in a post segregation world without worrying about what people might say about mixed race couples or whatever. Jackson's coming at a difficult topic with a slightly aggrieved smile on his face and you can feel that in how perfectly he matches the mood and the delivery of that guitar line in his verses.

He delivers it all with a lot of gusto and individual flair that I sort of forget actually how preachy and didactic this would sound in other people's hands, which brings me onto the rap verse from Bill Botrell, which is, it's fine, but it's not the best it could be. Feels like it's just there because it's 1991 and we have to do these sorts of things. We have to put rap verses in things because it's 1991. We're just fresh off New Jack City and we're right in the height of New Jack Swing and all that so I get it but it's a choice that kind of dates it a little bit for me but everything around it I think it's great it's just a shame the rap verse kind of comes where it does because it's right in

the most interesting bit of the song for me which is that kind of bazzing dazzling gear shift where you get Marta Michael emerging from the flames amid all the industrial electronics and the wind up, the sort of electronic shredding, the doodly doodly doodly doodly. But just the other thing I don't love about this is that just in the distance you can hear Earthsong and they don't care about us because I ain't scared of no sheets Apart from maybe being some kind of tangential reference to Ghostbusters Like I ain't scared and I ain't afraid to know ghosts sheets ghosts, you know It's an attack on the KKK which fits the message of the song

but it also feels like an attack on the news media and Hey, you know the news media absolutely perpetuates racism and they had an obsessive and strange relationship with Michael Jackson around this time. But the way that Michael Jackson says the line it strikes me as Jackson personally rallying against tabloid gossip and it feels like it pulls it slightly off message that bit just for a second and I think the song itself overall I started to realize it's kind of distracted by Jackson related context which means it's not 100% focused to me but it's still a great shot in the arm for this episode and for this little bit of pop. I just find it a little bit overwritten like

it's trying to do too much at once in many departments but still this is you know a thumbs up for me definitely although I will say there are certain moments in this that makes me think it's about to turn into Hungry Like the Wolf, because you get the da da da da da da da da da da da da, and then my head goes, do do do do do do do do do do do do do, and I'm just like, stop it,

I just want to listen to black or white, why is my brain making me do this? But every time that melody comes back round with the the dead it did it did it did it did it do yeah I never noticed that but you know I'm really annoying tick that my brain has developed but anyway Ed Michael Jackson black or white yes good Rob next? Is it literally anything more? No, that's it. You covered it very well. I've got to say, I have literally nothing more to say than that. It's good.

What are your notes? Tell us your notes. Give us your notes. That's pretty much it. Are you really done Ed? Is that it? No, that's it. I'm passing the savings on to the listener. So we will move on to our fourth and final song this week. Which is... This. So we will move on to our fourth and final song this week, which is this. I can't lie No more on your darkness I'm growing tired and time stands still before me For me Frozen here On the ladder of my life

It's much too late to save myself from falling I took a chance and changed your way of life You ain't all I am But you must read My meaning when I'm near to you Close the door and let me in Don't let the sun go down on me Although I search myself It's always someone else I see I'm just without a fragment of your life To wander free

But losing everything Okay, this is Don't Let the Sun Go Down on Me by George Michael and Elton John. Released as a standalone single, Don't Let the Sun Go Down on Me is George Michael's 15th single overall to be released in the UK and his 4th to reach number 1. This is Elton John's third UK number 1. And it's not the last time we'll be coming to Mr Panneotou or Mr Dwight during our 90s coverage. The single is a cover of the song originally released by Elton John which got to number 16 in 1974. Don't Let the Sun Go Down on Me went straight in at number 1 as a brand new entry. It stayed at number 1 for… TWO WEEKS!

In its first week atop the charts, it sold 57,000 copies, beating competition from Justified and Ancient by The KLF, which got to number 5 and Sound by James which climbed to number 9. And in week 2 it sold 89,000 copies beating competition from Driven by You by Brian May, which climbed to number 6, Too Blind to See It by Kim Sims which climbed to number 7, Stars by Simply Red which climbed to number 8, Stars by Simply Red, which climbed to number 8, and If You Go Away by New Kids on the Block, which got to number 9. When it was knocked off the top of the charts, Don't Let the Sun Go Down on Me dropped one place to number 2.

By the time it was done on the charts it had been inside the top 104. 10 weeks. The song is currently officially certified gold in the UK as of 2025 but pre-cancell data you've heard it a million times. Ed, George Michael and Elton John. How are we feeling? Ladies and gentlemen, Mr Edward Thomas. There you go. I fundamentally love ballads. I always have. I was a very sort of weepy, introspective little kid. And I think, don't talk, put your head on my shoulder

by the Beach Boys and Love and Affection by Joan Armatrading are probably two of the main reasons I thought I could maybe say something with music. It sort of hit a nerve. I love the languidity, the sort of the passion, the edge of emotion, like you're on a precipice about to go over something. I love big ballsy ballads that go on for eons, put a coda on the end, I'm very happy indeed. I mean, I love going on the other end of the spectrum, away from that kind of progressive balladry tradition,

if you will. I love stuff like Highway Patrolman by Bruce Springsteen, which is just a really subtly sad narrative, both are two chords. It's him basically play it, two chords, into what sounds like a dictaphone. It's like a million hours long as well and I really like it. Not for everybody. I tried twice. I really did this time. I've almost, I think, got to the bottom

of why this instills in me some sort of fight or flight panic. A button is pressed where I find this so repellently dull that I actually start to get restless and want to leave as in it's a really childish impulse and it's so strange because there's got to be stuff I listen to that makes this sound like Bohemian Rhapsody or something. Spoiler. But it might be one of those weird ultra mild sort of trauma cases that I need to see somebody about because there is another piece of music that I have a strangely adverse reaction to that is obviously irrational and that is the War of the Worlds soundtrack by Jeff Wayne. I don't even know if that is good

or if that is something that all being equal I would enjoy as a record. I think it's pretty good. All I know is that- I think it's pretty good. Is it? I can't tell because all I just, I remember unfortunate circumstances involving, and I'm not gonna go into the details

because they aren't really, it's more about my own anxious brain world than anything else. I got insulted by a homeless person outside and I was sort of confused and shaken up by that and I had to go into HMV after school and get somebody a birthday present and I literally had no more time. I had to get it that day and there wasn't much time left and I had to pick something and for some reason this combination of things and the fact that I couldn't decide what to do. This is like the most first world problems stuff you're ever going to hear.

But the fact that I couldn't decide and me mulling over the situation outside as I came in, the sound of somebody talking about alien invaders over some plinging and plongy noises just sent me into like a Genuine anxiety attack in the middle of HMV and it stuck with me and so I now cannot listen to war of the worlds by Jeff Wayne without having this kind of bizarre tremulous after effect but anyway, um, let's actually try and look into why I don't like this at all. The intro with that tink, tink, tink, tink symbol,

it's just, it is the definition of a horizon. Now, I know it's gonna build up. I know that's the point, but it just feels like this is, this feels, is the musical equivalent of stagnant water. Now, can you call on the answer? I don't actually know. I've not seen the video or anything. I know there's versions of it that were live, et cetera.

Is this version of the song actually live? I think it was recorded on George Michael's cover to cover tour. Well, that's some mitigation for why it sounds so muddy and pants. I just, the way that the audience is sort of spontaneously mixed in never sounds very organic to me. So I was thinking like, oh God, is this one of these

studio creations that's supposed to sound like a live track? But... When we do get the rhythm, when it does finally come in, it's just the most perfunctory thing imaginable. And it... I have done myself no favors to my opinions of Elton John's music coming in at this point in his career. Which, you know, let's be honest, it's not exactly him at his most exciting, should we say. And, you know, thank God that I knew stuff

like Benny and the Jets, because I would be quite convinced from a lot of the material we covered that he doesn't really get rhythm beyond something you use as window dressing on like a piano ballad and doesn't know what syncopation is unless a guitarist comes in and shows him or something. I mean that's unfair. It probably is genuinely unfair but there's nothing alive here for a live performance.

That's quite astonishing to me. There's this karaoke feel to it. It's like the rhythm track, the sound world that's being crafted is so perfunctory. It's almost like, and you get this impression from quite a lot of his stuff. It's like he's done this, he's like, I've written this on the piano.

That's the song, it's finished now. But what about the production? The arrangers are, all right, just put a drum machine or something on it. That makes it a releasable song, doesn't it? And that's probably not what goes through his head, but I just find it so, a lot of the, especially the stuff we've covered so far in the 90s edition, to be so serviceable in terms of the sound design on Elton John's tracks.

I'm still not really getting to the point of why I don't like this so much. I just, I find it so boring and static. I just, it doesn't elevate for me and it seems so very, very long for what it's trying to impart. I'm at a loss for words because I really do have an active, and I'm actively repelled by this song for one reason or another. I find it stagnant is how this feels. It's just, it's bombast. Oh, please somebody save me from this head spin I've got myself into.

Somebody, please. Would you say your head is spinning? Gosh, that looks very nice to me now. I would say the chances of Ed ever loving this song are only a little one. Andy George Michael and Elton John. Yeah this is interesting because as much as I certainly like it a hell of a lot more than you do Ed, although that's no barf, but as much as I certainly like it a lot more than you do, I don't actually really disagree

with anything that you said to be honest. I think I'm just in a more welcoming mindset to this because I love the bones of both George Michael and Elton John. George Michael came to me a bit later, I'm very sad to say I only really took notes of him after he died to be honest, but Elton John, been a big fan of for years very sad to say I only really took notes of him after he died, to be honest. But Elton John, been a big fan of for years, you know, I've said a few times in the show, I really, really like Elton John. Saw him on that last tour last year.

And I accept that he certainly got his flaws as a performer, as a singer, as a songwriter to the extent that he writes his songs. But I just think fundamentally he can crank out a hell of a tune. He just really like that Glaston reset he did at the end of towards the end of his tour last year that Glaston reset I just really demonstrated like he has got a lot of big, big bangers in his catalogue. But I don't think this is one of them. I don't like dislike this because I don't think it's possible for me to dislike you know a big emotional

duet between George Michael and Elton John like that's that you're always on to a winner with me for that just for my personal tastes but yeah there are things about this that really hold it back from being the great classic that it could be, to be honest. First of all, yeah, it's bloody long. It's really, really long and feels more so for the fact that quite a lot of the time it's knowingly long. It keeps on stretching things out.

It keeps on adding more verse to hold back the chorus. It's doing it on purpose, it's not just a long form song. It's sort of doing what Tiny Dancer does, where it's knowingly holding back the chorus in Tiny Dancer so that when it comes it's all the sweeter, except the pay-off's not as big in this one because the chorus is just not that great to be honest. So yes, I definitely have that problem with it and also I think there's a real Empress New Clothes quality about this. I think if you take everything I've said so far which is that it's George Michael and Elton John on stage together doing this

big weepy ballad isn't that instantly iconic. Like well that's the thing isn't that instantly iconic does it need to be anything else like what's this song about? What's being expressed here like what what's actually? Being communicated for what purpose would you sing this to someone if this song was in a musical where would it go? You know those are questions that I find hard to answer about this except that it just feels sort of indistinctly Weepy, you you know I think it's quite telling that this is a big big stalwart of music talent shows of singing shows back when they were a big thing they got this countless times on the likes of pop

stars pop idol x-factor the voice all of those that's how I knew this growing up that like it was just always on, those kind of shows, to the point where Joe McElroy in his X Factor final did a duet of this with George Michael, and incidentally won the duet round comprehensively that year because Stacey Sullivan got given Michael Buble, who was not that famous at the time, so she was never really in contention,

and Olly Murs got paired with Robbie Williams, who completely fucked up the words to his own song and made it really noticeable. So, Joe McElroy did a great job with George Michael. Olly, who? Yeah, exactly who? That monkey guy. Yeah, I think it has a blandness to it

that is disguised by the fact that it's these massive two titans. Like that one that I always forget the name of, always forget the name of because it is dull. I always forget the name of that one by Kate Bush and Peter Gabriel. That I just really think it's getting by on the massive style quality behind it.

And there's nothing at its core. And I don't think there's much at its core. But I will say that I do think it's pleasant enough. I don't dislike it. It's got two absolute legends on it, both of whom I really, really love. I'm never gonna turn this down, but I certainly would skip through it a little bit

and skip some of those endless verses. I don't think there's anything that you've said Ed, which I would particularly disagree with or find unfair I'm just predisposed to be far more kind to it I'm just that's my just that's just my breed is position the same way you've got yours It's odd you're speaking about it like a rational human being The gills like some sort of Like the wiring in my brain had become crossed. So, thank you. I feel like I've been talked down from something. No, I mean, all three of us have had, and Lizzie as well,

have all had moments where we've just viscerally hated a song and we're not prepared to go any further or challenge ourselves in that. I had that with If Tomorrow Never Comes by Ruined Keaton, which I, you know, sort of was talking about it like it was a war crime. You know, we've all had those moments. Can I just modify mine as well by saying, you know, sort of was talking about it like it was a war crime, you know, we've all had those moments. Can I just modify mine as well by saying, you will notice, I really like George Michael. I didn't mention him once when I was talking about that, which is super odd, especially considering it apparently was his show. And I'm like, I just think in some ways, I don't know whether that adds stock to my point

or takes it away, but it just feels like bloody hell. I mean, how can George Michael do a ballad and it falls so flat? Because he usually, when he does ballad material, there's a real vulnerability and a sort of innocence to it. And here it just sounds like a dull trudge through like stagnant water Anyway, I'm sorry. I'm getting carried away again Rob. We're robbing your time

Well, I have almost nothing to say about this strangely You know, we have much better George Michael songs coming up and Elton's written loads of stuff. That's better than this I guess the bitch is back is the big song from Caribou that people kind of remember more. This version seems to have kind of kicked the other one in the original into touch a little bit. It was a big success in America actually, the original version of this. It got to number two in their charts in 74. Like I say, didn't make the top ten over here. But I also think that like Tiny Dancer does the withholding the chorus thing better than Don't Let the Sun Go Down on Me. But I think once it gets to that chorus, it has a strong enough chorus and George Michael does a better live rendition

of it here than he did at Live Aid where I actually think he's quite pitchy throughout that Live Aid performance of Don't Let the Sun Go Down on Me with Elton. And I think if you take a song from the mid-70s and recontextualise it as a half-decent, kind of 90s power ballad sort of thing, then you have to kind of say, fair enough, it's not really my bag, I'm just kind of sat here like, yeah, I appreciate the musicianship here, there's a good sense of stage presence coming through the audio, but not much else, I just get frustrated with its length, length you know I like both of their voices at this stage Elton's not quite in his kind of era of voice he's still kind of doing the you know he's you know he's still kind of pursed lips as I think I was sort of saying although he is kind of gay in their lives yes think I was sort of saying. Although he is kind of getting there.

Yes, well that's something else I'm going to come on to in a second. But I did decide to look into something about this song which is fairly unique, not entirely, but this is a rare event all the same. Because a live recording is a number one single. So I had a look around and I did a bit of digging and thanks to the users on Buzz Jack which is a great internet forum which focuses on all sorts of like nerdy stuff about the charts and British TV and all that I've managed to come up with the following list based on some recommendations that people have found. So we have Too Much Too Young by The Specials, The Wonder of You by Elvis, My Ding-a-Ling by Chuck Berry, D-I-V-O-R-C-E by Billy Connolly, My Old Man's a Dustman

by Lonnie Donoghain, and then you've got a song we covered on Hits 21 in the 2000s, You See the Trouble with Me by Black Legend because that samples a live Barry White performance. And after this point, we've also got to cover that five live EP, which is also George Michael, but it features Freddie Mercury and such and a few other names. And then in 2011, someone like you by Adele, now the proper single recording was out by the time it got to number one, but the radios, they were all playing the live version from the Brit Awards. And if you bought the live version, thated towards the sales for the studio version. It did.

It was the vast majority of the sales that got it to number one in the first week was the live version. And it's really funny because when people slightly younger than us say, how did Adele get so famous? Literally everybody who's our age knows exactly when it changed and And it was that Brit's performance of Someone Like You. Because she was already pretty successful in the UK. She had a couple of top 10 hits, like, you know, Chasing Pavements and stuff.

A couple of her other singles, like Hometown Glory didn't get other than that reached the top five or top 10, but it was, you know, a couple of middling hits. And then she came back with 21 and, you know, Someone Like You and then when she did did that that was the thing that was like Oh my god, who is this and that was when loads of Americans were like, oh, here's a British pop artist We'll actually pay attention to and we actually quite like and that was what sent a stratospheric and now she has residences in Vegas and all that

And but yeah, so those are a list of some live recordings I don't know if it's all of them that got to number one, but I had to Had to make a special mention here for something Ed that you've just kind of referenced there it didn't get to number one, but another live recording of this song was Peter Kay and Dave Spiky performing it in character as Brian Potter and Jerry Sinclair Brian of course dressed up as Elton John and Jerry dressed up as George Michael for the Stars in Their Eyes competition at the Phoenix Club in Phoenix Nights, the last episode of the whole show, which is magnificent because I cannot hear this version without thinking of Jerry's ad-libs. Go. I can't all the right romantic line those romantic lines

See me once Once you see the way I feel yes, and then they all right shut your mouth Fantastic scene so so good. That's also the same episode As Dave Spiky's I'm Slim Shady. I'm the real Slim Shady or you're the Slim Shady Just do it with the with the elderly members of the audience standing up and sitting down because they think they're being instructed to please stand up Over and over but yeah I am such a huge advocate for how much Peter Kay allows pop music to infect his life and his work in episodes like that are exactly, you know

his life and his work and episodes like that are exactly you know why I think that Peter Kay's a little bit of a connoisseur of that kind of thing and just in Morehouse as young Kenny doing meatloaf coming in on the motorbike reading the lyrics off the paper while he's holding his red handkerchief in the other hand but anyway we're just gonna check then. So, Ed, the fly, Dizzy, black or white, don't let the sun go down on me. Piehole, Volt, what's going on? Well, the fly doesn't come undone, nor does it zip by. I like it about as much as anything else U2 released in the 90s. It's just there. It's horizontal.

You may be dizzy, but it'll take more than a spin doctor to wash away the stains of this meagre day's work for the Wonderstuff and Vic Reeves. It can flip off. Now into the pie hole with that one, I really think it's a waste of time. Michael Jackson? I like it. it's a waste of time. Michael Jackson. I like it. It's not really going anywhere. And yeah, the final one.

It's so pie hole, it's disintegrating the base and creating a pie sub-level for us all to be angrily bored in. It's heavy duty black bin bags for a son going down on whatever it's called with two people who should know far better than this. So Andy, you two, Vic Reeves and the Wonderstuff, Michael Jackson, George Michael and Elton John. The Fly, funnily enough I did make that comparison before that it always feels like it's in the air without ever coming into land and it doesn't land in either the Vault or the Pie Hall. As for Dizzy, it's not great but I'm not putting that in the Pie Hall and I'm not affording it the effort it would take to come up with a pun on that one either.

Let's say it's not the Wonderful Stuff and if you're thinking about my baby it don't matter if you're Pie or Vault baby it don't matter if you're Pi or Vault except it does because I've decided that I'm putting that in the Vault I decided just while I was talking because yes I was very befuddled by the lyrics and wish I had more from it in that sense but musically that's a gem just so nice to listen to and me and my husband have been constantly singing that we cannot get it out of our heads and that's got to count for something so black or white is going in the vault it's good and yeah and as you repeated your whole segment again there ed that was really selfish of

you and as for don't let the sun go down on me well i wouldn't say that i'm down on it but i also wouldn't have any particularly effusive to say about it either, so that is in the middle for me We'll say by the way the black or white is my first Vault entry of 1991 that we nearly got all the way through the year without me putting anything in the vault So thank you to black or white for that. Alright then so for me the fly Fly straight into the vault for me for you to there dizzy Mmm, his head is spinning. He falls over face first into the pie hole, everybody knows that. Black or white, it's not going up or down, it's staying exactly

where it is in the middle, although it was just missing the vault, I think. And don't let the sun go down on me, the sun isn't going down or up it's just kind of staying there awkwardly on the horizon a permanent day which will never end in purgatory it's going nowhere so next week it will be our Christmas episode for 1991 the race for Christmas number one. While we've been recording, I always try and end an episode with some music to kind of play us out. And while we've been recording, this will date it immediately,

but the filmmaker and musician and actor, but mainly filmmaker David Lynch has died 78 years old. As I've put in my Instagram story, filmmaker David Lynch has died 78 years old. As I've put in my Instagram story, he smoked like a chimney and changed the world. So we're gonna, I think I'm just gonna play the Twin Peaks theme to play us out, just as a sort of like a bit of a memento, if you will, a bit of a mark, a bit of a moment,

so we can all think about David Lynch at the end of the episode. And if you haven't seen any of his films or TV shows before, seek them out. They are unlike anything you will ever see. At the very least, you have to say that. Yes. Thank you, David. I very much like your stuff. Also, right at the end of his career, he had just an incredible cameo right at the end.

Spielberg's most recent movie, The Fablemans, where he plays director John Ford. And that's an incredible scene as well, which is worth seeking out on YouTube as well. So yeah, thank you to David. Thank you all for listening this week. And we will see you for our race for Christmas number one. And enjoy the works of Angelo Badalamenti.

See you soon. Bye bye. Bye. The Thank you.