Hits 21 - 2002 (10): Eminem, Blue & Elton John

Episode Date: March 26, 2023

Hello again, everyone, and welcome back to Hits 21, the show that's taking a look back at every UK #1 hit single of the 21st century - from January 2000, right through to the present day. Twitter: @Hits21UK Email: [e-mail]

🎵 Hi there everyone, and welcome back to Hits 21 where me, Rob, me, Andy and me, Livy all look back at every single UK number one of the 21st century from January 2000 right through to the present day. 2000 right through to the present day. If you want to get in touch with us, you can, and you can find us over on Twitter. We are at Hits21UK, that is at Hits21UK, and you can email us too. Just send it on over to Hits21Podcast at gmail.com. Thank you so much for joining us again. Just like our recent previous episodes, we'll be looking back at some number one singles from the year 2002. This time we'll be covering the period from the 8th of December through to the 22nd of December, so we're getting so, so close to that all-important Christmas number one. Last week's poll winner, it ran away with it, really.

It was Dirty, or Dirty, by Christina Aguilera and Redman. Barely any competition. It was not tight like the previous weeks had been. So, on to this week's episode. And as always, we're going to give you some news headlines from around the time that the two songs we're covering this week were number one in the uk joe strummer frontman and lyricist in the clash and one of the figureheads of the uk punk movement dies age just 50 he was found dead at his home in Somerset by his wife, having just returned from walking the family dog. An autopsy revealed that he sadly died of a heart attack.

Meanwhile, Sherry Blair publicly apologises after buying two flats in Bristol with the help of convicted Australian conman Peter Foster, who negotiated a discount for Blair. She said she had no knowledge that Foster had ever been to prison. A poll of over 30,000 people run by the BBC revealed that 61% were not convinced by the apology. Meanwhile in the US, President George W. Bush announces a smallpox vaccination for military personnel and for civilian health care and emergency workers in order to protect against bioterrorism risks. Eight days later, Bush himself received the vaccine. The films to hit the top of the UK box office during this period were as follows. Die Another Day is still at the top of the UK box office, so not much to report on that

front. However, before the end of the year, The Lord of the Rings The Two Towers begins a four-week reign at the top, grossing £30.6 million in the UK alone, and that stays at number one through to the start of 2003. For a long, long time, that was my favourite of the three films. That was my first, oh yeah, which one of the three should I watch? Oh yeah, this one. No idea why. I think it might be because it's the first one to have a big, cool battle set piece, and you're ten years old and you're like, oh, I want to see action. And it's also about 20 minutes shorter than Return of the King,

which means that when you're up at 10 o'clock at night, and you don't want to be up too late, so you put on the one that's like two hours and 55 minutes as opposed to three hours and 15 minutes two hours is probably my least favorite of the three but when i say that just to be clear that's like i would rate two hours like two towers like a 9.8 out of 10 and the other two would be like a 9.9 and a 10 so you know it's a very high bar to say it's the weakest Lord of the Rings film the gulf between them and the Hobbit films

is a canyon so yeah and I've not seen any of them that is outrageous Lizzie that is outrageous well we know what we're doing this Christmas Lizzie oh I'm driving meanwhile Diana Ross Well, we know what we're doing this Christmas, Lizzie. Oh, I'm driving.

Meanwhile, Diana Ross is arrested for driving under the influence in Arizona. A witness reported seeing a white Honda Accord driving erratically in the wrong lane. When Diana was asked to perform a sobriety test by standing on one leg, she fell over. She was also unable to recite the alphabet, even though they they would have accepted tell me what you think of me. Diana was eventually jailed for two days after admitting the offence and completed her sentence in bursts of six to eight hours. Completed her sentence

in bursts? Normal people aren't allowed to do that. No, a lot of people were not happy. When I was doing the research, apparently what happened was she did it in bursts of six to eight hours. She was allowed to come and go as she pleased, and then people found out about this and were like, hang on a minute,

and then she was ordered by a judge to serve 48 consecutive hours, but it eventually just got dropped because she'd already completed the 48 hours. If I can make an obvious possible point, if you can come and go freely, is it prison? It's not really prison, surely, if you can just come and go. That's like any other building. I can come and go anywhere.

The point of prison is that you can't leave. Wow. That's crazy. The benefits of being Diana Ross,oss i guess yeah meanwhile back in the uk david sneddon wins the first series of fame academy meanwhile on bbc2 cbbc broadcasts the first episode of kids adventure game show raven the series would run for eight years until 2010 and on channel 5 k-Japanese anime series Beyblade airs on terrestrial television for the first time.

Oh, wow. All three of those were big things for me. I can't believe Raven was going until 2010, by the way. Yeah, I can't believe that either. I think I stopped watching it in 2005, maybe a little bit later than that. As for Fame Academy, though i was i was really really a big follower of fame academy that first series it was i remember the final three it was david sneddon along with lamar and shenaid um yes and david sneddon was put in like last minute as a

filler contestant because someone else dropped out and it wasn't at all believed that he would win it was a really big surprise that he won um maybe more on him another time andy how are the album charts looking right now well escapology by robbie williams is still dominating everything um for the whole rest of 2002 that remains at the top so i decided to take a leaf out of your book rob and look at the things that it beat to number one see what didn't get there and And I'm afraid I've come up short on that as well. In the first week that we're covering this

week, the highest new entry was Dive In by Darius, which entered at number six. Obviously, Colorblind was off that album. But that was the highest new entry in that week. And in the second week that we're covering, how about this in the

top 100 there were no new entries at all not even one really yeah christmas time does it to everyone i think yeah it's worth saying that almost every week that escapology was at number one the number two was one love by blue so were it not for Robbie Blue might have had a 4, 5, 6 week run at number 1 with One Love it was a very big album in it's own right so just a quick shout out to Blue there but no it's a very very quiet period as people are stocking up on their CD gifts

for Christmas, the charts are a bit weird right now so more on that next year Lizzie how are our transatlantic cousins preparing for the big day? Yeah, well, as I've already mentioned on a

previous episode, Eminem's Lose Yourself stays at number one until February 2003, but we finally get to discuss it on this podcast in the next few minutes so stay tuned for that, I'm so excited Also in terms of albums

jay-z's reign at number one was brought to an end by shania twain whose album up stayed at number one until the second week of january in 2003 it eventually finished at number three on the 2003 year end list and was certified 11 times platinum in the us but it stalled at number four on the UK albums chart behind What Else, One Love by Blue. I'm sure they were one place ahead last time as well. If only they got a number one at some point and we could talk about Blue. Oh that's my Christmas wish. If only. Make my dreams come true let's see fingers crossed right okay

thank you both very much time to press on and the first of the two songs we'll be discussing this week is this © transcript Emily Beynon Look, if you had one shot, one opportunity, to seize everything you ever wanted in one moment But you capture it, you just let it slip Yo, his palms are sweaty, knees weak, arms are heavy There's vomit on his sweater already, mom's spaghetti He's nervous, been on the surface, he looks calm and ready

To drop bombs, but he keeps on forgetting what he wrote down The whole crowd goes so loud, he opens his mouth But the words won't come out, he's choking how Everybody's choking now, the clock's run out Time's up, over, plow, snap back to reality Oh, there goes gravity, oh, there goes rabbit, he choke He's so mad but he won't give up that as he know He won't have it, he knows, his whole back's in his ropes

It don't matter, he's dope, he knows His whole back city's roast It don't matter, he's dope He knows that, but he's broke He's so stagged that he knows When he goes back to this mobile home That's when it's back to the lab again, yo This old rap city better go capture this moment And hope it don't pass

You better lose yourself in the music The moment you own it, you better never let it go You only get one shot, do not miss your chance to blow This opportunity comes once in a lifetime Okay, this is Lose Yourself by Eminem. Released as the lead single from the compilation album entitled 8 Mile, music from and inspired by the motion picture, Lose Yourself is Eminem's 10th single overall to be released in the UK. It is his fourth single to reach number one after The Real Slim Shady, Stan and Without Me all reached the summit. It is not the last time we'll be discussing Eminem on this podcast

Lose Yourself went straight in at number one as a brand new entry knocking Daniel Bedingfield off the top of the charts It stayed at number one for one week In its first and only week atop the charts it sold 91,000

copies beating competition from Cheeky Song, Touch My Bum by the Cheeky Girls, which got to number two, Feel by Robbie Williams, which got to number four, and Holding On For You by Liberty X, which got to number five. So, as pleased as I am that Lose Yourself got to number one, I'm a bit sad that we don't get to discuss The Cheeky Song Imagine

Imagine if you were doing that rundown It's like Cheeky Song held off Lose Yourself by Eminem God, a sliding doors moment in British pop When it was knocked off the top of the charts Lose Yourself dropped two places To number three It then initially left the charts lose yourself dropped two places to number three it then initially left the charts

after 31 weeks however the song re-entered the charts in 2004 2009 2011 2012 2013 and 2014. as of today lose yourself has spent a total of 52 weeks inside the top 100 and the song was declared four times platinum in the uk in april 2021 this was massive um andy m&m lose yourself i mean i'm just reflected on that chart battle between the cheeky song and this that's sort of an early precursor to the joe mckeldrey race against the machine battle of 2009 i guess really isn't it where it's like between the cheeky song and this. That's sort of an early precursor to the Joe McKeldry Race Against the Machine battle of 2009, I guess, really, isn't it? Where it's like authentic music versus game show crap, basically.

Well, we've had Eminem and Bob the Builder in 2000. We have, yeah. What is it about Eminem and getting into these beefs with perfectly nice novelty music. But, oh well. As it stands, we have to talk about Eminem and not the Cheeky Girls. But it's a very good one.

It's one of those really that we've seen a few different faces from Eminem, a few different sort of hats that he's worn, where we've had the previous one, Without Me, was a really kind of silly, bravado kind of song we've had real slim shady which is a bit more of a kind of statement of intent um and we've had stan which of course is very very um serious song and you know really has a lot of depth to it this one kind of fits into a slightly different slot yet again um and will kind of admire Eminem for doing something

a little bit different each time with this one we've talked about hype songs before and this is a hype song it's like spice up your life but for Eminem really where it's like you can imagine people sort of walking into a boxing ring with this

as their intro music or you know walking out onto the football pitch it just yeah obviously that's what the film's all about with eight mile that it's it's that kind of hype and that kind of stepping into the ring and seizing your moment um so that comes across really really strongly but yeah i think this is probably the most kind of angry tense most kind of exciting eminem song that we've yet covered and um I really really like it I think the only thing I don't like about it is that it's sometimes it's just a little bit abrasive in the production sometimes that I do like that snappy little guitar that but sometimes it's a bit high in the mix for me sometimes it dominates a little um so it's not

completely perfect but it's pretty damn close to perfect i'm having to really look for things to criticize here um and again you would you would think that i would mark it down a few notches for basically being all hype but it manages to do that and still convey something that we can relate to that it still kind of acts as a sort of power up for the listener that it still kind of gives you that sense of yeah seize your moment um and you feel like it's coming from quite a personal place from eminem as well that it's coming from a place of you know having to prove himself against a lot of other people um and above a lot of other people that you know he really has had to kind of earn his right to compete in this scene um and you can sense that this is coming from a very authentic place so it just

kind of has everything really it really comes together very well um it's one of those where i don't actually have a huge amount to say about it but that's because there's very little to criticize it's just a really really good song i think there's a lot of little musical elements thrown in there that really help as well i i always like listening to that extended intro because i think that just sets the atmosphere better than going straight in on the guitar I think that piano intro really adds something to it that little flicky guitar

as much as it is too high in the mix it really does kind of keep the momentum going there's some strings in there and some orchestral hits that again might be cheesy under other circumstances but because Eminem's performance is selling the song and is really committing to this it works it all comes together really well and this gets a big thumbs up from me

I really like it yeah really really good yeah well I mean I agree with a lot of your points Andy although I would love to see the version of 8 Mile that has spice up your life in it see these are my reference points this is my reference point yeah These are my reference points. This is my reference point, yeah. But yeah, I think more for me, I kind of want to talk about this, like not massively in depth or anything,

because I'm hardly an expert, but this feels like a bit of a watershed moment for Eminem. Like this sounds like maybe benefit of hindsight, but it sounds like an artist who is about to hit his breaking point. Like if we're talking around 2002, during the filming of eight miles specifically you know he's kind of starting to experience you know drug addiction which would affect him for several years after that point and would lead to pretty much the near well the collapse of his career to a point which he couldn't really sort of get back on track until much later on in the decade it's just that at this point this is like peak Eminem and as much as he's kind of on the top and he's the the person that everyone beneath him looks up to he's kind of

having to sort of work through like injuries and emotional pain to like maintain that position and so it's it's a lot like you see this with wrestlers all the time like case in point someone like Eddie Guerrero or Kurt Angle and what happens to these people is just they get so massive like not just physically but also in terms of position and status that they have to work so much harder to actually maintain it and what happens is it well in the case of Kurt Angle it almost ended up killing him in the case of Eddie Guerrero it did he didn't you know he didn't make it to 40 so and like this very nearly happened to Eminem in like 2007 Rob you told me about this how he very nearly overdosed yeah yeah very nearly very nearly. Yeah and this is kind of the

start of it but I mean it just in isolation the song itself is fantastic like if not for Stan it would easily be his best song. I'm sure there are people out there listening who probably do think this is his best song and I wouldn't disagree with them. It deserves to be up there. Like not just the lyrics which is what we always tend to you know applaud Eminem for but the production in particular adds like a ton of weight and heft to like a lyrically hard-hitting song. Like one of one of our complaints about Eminem in the past, particularly with, like, Without Me in particular, is that the instrumental can be a bit goofy.

And as much as Eminem kind of sells it because of his lyrical strength, it's kind of, I don't know, it's like blowing a raspberry in your ear. But this is just, like, it's serious. It's here to, like like grab your attention and keep hold of it and it does like you Andy I love that intro because it kind of gives you the sense of you know the the cover for the soundtrack album where it's like night and there's a neon sign

above but it just kind of looks sort of grimy and wet and like this horrible sort of forgotten town and you're left to sort of roam through it and you've got to find your own way and it and it kind of leads into that you know that guitar and then and then the beat kicks in and all these sort of layers just gradually add up and, you know, build and build and build. And it, it works so perfectly.

I do maybe slightly agree with you, Andy, that there are points where it does get a little bit too big and too loud. It's like, you could, I think this is just a symptom of the time, really, that a lot of songs from this time do sound so much louder because that was the way things were produced.

So I don't really want to hold that against it too much. But it's a minor complaint on a song that I think is just phenomenal. And I think it's fair to say it's Eminem's last great number one. Well, I think we'd all agree on that. Well... I wouldn't, but we'll get to that. I think we'll get to that. He has good number ones,

but I don't know if I'd go as far as great as, like, all-timer. Yeah, I would agree with Lizzie on that. Yeah. Yeah, I think this is the last one where the consensus around it is like oh this is you know like a big deal like that sort of thing like yeah yeah you know cards on the table i'm a really big fan of like toy soldiers but i know that other people are just sort of like it's not the first song you exactly jumped to in eminem's catalog is it um yeah i think as well just with hindsight eminem going serious is something that doesn't sustain itself for as long as eminem being a bit

goofy the the eminem going serious thing that kind of happens with uh i mean he's always had you know the serious element to him but this one it's like there's no punch line with this with lose yourself in the same way that there's no real punch line with like toy soldiers and then a little bit further on there's no punch line with songs like when i'm gone or mockingbird or songs like that and so that but then everything just kind of goes very quiet between like 2005 or the end of 2005 2006 7 8 like you know he features on a couple of tracks um he winds up next to acon i think later down the line for us but he doesn't come back with his own stuff obviously until 2009 um but then he's back doing stuff like,

he just kind of settles out and does like generic, like rap pop stuff, like Cracker Bottle and We Made You and songs like that that I don't think get to number one. Love the Way You Lie. That we don't really get to discuss. Yeah, Love the Way You Lie, that's kept off the top, I think, at some point.

I mean, he has number ones again. Oh, yeah. But the serious Eminem period with albums like Recovery and Relapse and things like that are not amazing. Anyway, back to 2002 and Lose Yourself. Whenever I listen to this, obviously as well as hearing the song, I can also hear very faintly Eye of the Tiger by Survivor

finally being allowed to retire after 20 years of being the international fight song for the entire planet it feels like yes there you go finally we can put you down now you've been holding the flag since like what 1983?

1984? whenever rocky three came out and so we could just put you in a retirement home because now this song is here and this will be the one as you said andy that gets played before sports teams come out yeah especially american you know americans love this kind of music for sport and stuff to make everything like it just feels like if any other song has been played in the TV coverage of the build up to the Super Bowl, I'd like to know what song that was other than the one that they always play. I mean, now that you mention it, it does have musical similarities to eye of the tiger it does have that kind of plodding drone style beat that just kind of keeps driving throughout it's like like you're rocky running up those steps it does have kind of similarities with the use of the guitar

and the use of that rhythm that really keeps it going i wonder if that was an inspiration at all because they're they're they are very different songs but you can kind of see common dna there that is interesting that's an interesting point yeah yeah totally um first things first obviously eminem is like on point here like i think the first verse in this is probably his most famous i wouldn't say it's his best but i'd definitely say that mom's spaghetti is like the thing that people will jump to whenever you mention it's a meme really isn't it there's just something about that that phrase it's just it's such a serious song and then to use that phrase it just seems odd and doesn't doesn't he run a restaurant now called mom's spaghetti that would surprise me yeah um the other thing as well with eminem dropping silly

lines into serious songs is when he gets to the third verse of When I'm Gone and he imagines his daughter coming to the crowd at a show in Sweden and he goes, baby we're in Sweden how did you get to Sweden? He's just shouting it dead seriously, it's dead funny and then the

second verse, the rhyme scheme where he manages to get more out of the O sound than anyone I think I've ever heard before, like, that's unbelievable, unbelievable, like, the homie grows harder, he blows, it's all over these holes, it's all on a coast to coast, he's known as a cold, trod, a lonely road, and then it gets all the way through to, um, they moved on to the next small flows, he knows the horse, it's all, it just keeps going on and on and on and on and on, and it pushes tension to breaking point, it's genius, I love the little like piano trills that come in every now and again, just add some decoration while still maintaining the tension, and I think

tension is where the genius of this song really lies, which is that m&m manages to make battle rap sound like any other sport i think it understands that sport like when you really distill it down it's just 1v1 doesn't matter if it's boxing tennis cricket water polo lawn balls like it's 1v1 whether that's one team versus another or one person versus another the lyrics and the music and the video all coalesce and contribute to this really sweaty and intense and grimy atmosphere that shares a lot with aesthetically with films like rocky and fight club and eventually after this million dollar baby i think it does equate rap battles to boxing primarily in more ways than one but crucially not in a way that is glamorous or heroic, I think this song is all about nerves and nausea and panic and the tiny tiny margins between loss

and victory and how those tiny margins cause like canyon-sized ruptures in your psychology and your mental health you know the it is just homo simpson going over the gorge where it's like if you miss that gorge by an inch there's a huge chasm waiting for you to fall in um the iambic pentameter and like unbalanced emphasis on each word in that first verse that's employed in the verses that makes it feel so uneasy that guitar like you mentioned andy's playing so many minors and flats to keep the you know the sort of like this feeling in your chest just sort of like you know you feel quite het up and panicked about it the song builds slowly not too dissimilar to how rage against the machine would build something to breaking point and let it all come crashing down later and i think it really captures especially with sports

like boxing and tennis how lonely sport can be at the highest level especially when it comes to boxing and tennis and i'd argue that tennis is the loneliest sport of all because at least in boxing every three minutes you get to go and talk to your coach and have a towel put around your head whereas with tennis you can be out there for three and four hours like you can't access your family or your trainer um and there's no teammates around to pick up the slack and like it's the same when it comes to battle rap where it's like if you drop a poor line or a punch line doesn't hit right like once you lose the room that's it you never get it back in battle rap it is i mean i spent my teen years watching a lot of don't flop on youtube and man like when a room turns against someone in the ring it's fucking

horrible and like i've had to turn the video off sometimes because you can see them fighting and just going through the lines that they've written down and they know it's not working and they have to just keep plugging away because they can't forfeit and i think this is exactly what lose yourself understands because like eminem obviously eight mile is like his life story where he came up as a battle rapper he was white so nobody really gave him a shot in the rap scene and he had to like you know fight twice as hard within the scene he had to make sure that he was twice as good as everybody else um and i think lose yourself really understands that like once

your killer punchline is out of the way you've got to have another one coming in an instant because you're only as good as your next couplet, your next performance, your next punchline, your next round in boxing, your next matches in tennis. And I think that given where this, like you were saying, Lizzie, where this lands in Eminem's discography, this is the sound of a guy who i think knows he's running out of punch lines and he's running out of time like in three years he's made three massive albums a movie soundtrack a film a tv series the cartoon which i think was just called the m&m show or the slim shady show or something like that the guy has not stopped it really happened overnight um he was you know battle rapping for years. Suddenly he was found and within a year it was like recording contract, major album,

Dr. Dre's like a big fan, et cetera, et cetera. And he's smart and he knows that he hasn't stopped since and he knows that this can't last forever. I've talked about this before, but like the level of fury, rage, comedy skill and speed that needs to be sustained for a rapper to be successful is basically

impossible once you're no longer like a young gun that everybody fancies you know like especially in the 90s and early 2000s like we're still pre chipmunk soul here you know Common has only just released like water for chocolate like you know gangster rap and hardcore hip-hop is still like ruling the airwaves commercially we're a

we're still a year away i would say from the balance beginning to shift away from gangster rap and more towards like more patient artsy conscious stuff at least ruling the airwaves anyway that stuff's always around if you just look at like i don't know jungle brothers tricor quest you know any of the native tongs lot basically but you know kanye west hasn't emerged yet and he's like i think he was someone who paved the way for a lot of more considered rappers to be you know it doesn't have to be, you know, it doesn't have to be all about fury and excitement to maintain commercial value

it can be about other things too and so Eminem is competing in a world of hip hop that's still about youth and speed and the crucial thing I think that a lot of people kind of forget about Eminem is that he's 30 at this point yeah

he broke through when he was like 26 that's like six years later than most rappers break through you know if you think like ice cube was like 18 17 when straight out of compton came out and like you know most young rappers who have like their first big major label album are normally early 20s at their oldest that's why they all die so young like you know Big E and Tupac are like 24 25 when they get killed and they're like established names before they've hit 25 26 um and Eminem's like he's like an elder statesman already at his peak it's so strange um and i think you know if he understands very well that you're only as good as what's coming next and like this is the peak before the collapse like

this feels like you were saying lizzie it feels like the edge of you know it feels like this is eminem's limit being reached now and that he does desperately need some time off or else as we'll see with encore um you know we're not far away from him being basically up to his eyes in vicodin and valium and we're gonna live through the effects of that on this show um yeah i still think he's got one more vault worthy number one which i think is like toy soldiers um and we'll talk about that more at the time which I think is like Toy Soldiers, and we'll talk about that more at the time. But this, Lose Yourself, is wonderful.

There are so many just... It's one of those things where, as I've hopefully displayed, that this is really thought-provoking and a whole guy's story just kind of encapsulated in five minutes. And I listened to this and I think no wonder what happened over the next five to six years in Eminem's life happened because this guy feels like he's been

pushed to the absolute limit and I think 8 Mile was his way of kind of like, okay I need to get everything down on paper and show everybody before, well, the song is Till I Collapse. It's, you know, he'll keep doing it until he does,

but, you know, maybe that's not that far away. And it sort of isn't either. I understand this is really heavily influenced by hindsight. And if we were saying this in 2002, if we were talking about it, we'd be probably saying something like, oh, yeah, Eminem's at like the top of his game like he's gonna keep going forever like wow this song's amazing you know that sort of thing it maybe only hindsight adds that kind of

tinge of not sadness obviously because eminem's doing very well still he had a number one single as recently as two years ago like you know the guy's still doing really well but i think when eminem comes back as much as i think a lot of his albums and singles have been not my cup of tea at all he only really learned to pace himself in the late 2000s and this is a guy who doesn't quite know how to pace himself yet and is about to expire for a while and go on a bit of a hiatus to go hibernate which a much needed um hibernation um i don't think this is entirely perfect um like you andy i'm kind of looking at the guitars a little bit and just the main kind of like you say the undercurrent i think the little thing that i would take away from this song is that i wish the undercurrent would change

slightly so that when it went back to the original undercurrent that it would just feel that power that little bit more but that's all that's the only you know it's the only red pen note i really have about this i think this is really wonderful it's not my favorite Eminem song but it's bloody close really bloody close I wanted to um pull you up on something a little bit there Rob because you mentioned like how kind of in you know in the year or so after this it's like the rise of like Kanye and alternative hip-hop but I think it's sort of I think there's maybe more to it than that like there's a couple of different strands that go on because when i think 2003 hip-hop i think 50 cent yeah so that that you know that bling rap and ring zone rap that comes in it's only a couple of years down

the line that it kind of comes to a head and one very clearly prevails but yeah i don't think this sort of thing is on its last legs just yet but it is the the end of the imperial phase of eminem yeah yeah i think that's i i was um i suppose i was only like i said because eminem right now as i was saying um is he's living in a hip-hop world where a lot of the youngsters coming through that are really commercially successful. Are you 50 cents masterpiece G unit? I mean, he is not really an example of someone I would hold up as a,

you know, a great example of someone who's particularly, well, he's talented. I'll give him that. But yeah, but you've got like the game and that sort of thing as well

that's still I think even really recently which I've completely forgotten about that Ice Cube obviously has like a number 2 single around this time in the UK with I think it might be a couple of years earlier with you could do it but your bear could do it I could do it but your bear could do it

but yeah like you say from about 2004 onwards there is the greater commercial emergence of what was kind of kind of a derisory term for it but backpack

rap if you will and the pop rap and stuff like that that kind of emerges um as a big commercial force i'm not saying that like it hasn't been successful before but it's like you say in 2007 it comes to a head with graduation and curtis yes and eminem is on curtis and graduation wins that little fight and it's not that gangster rap is completely killed off because gangster rap still goes but as a dominant commercial force i think the mid-2000s are a huge shift and we're just on the edge of it and eminem still he's at the moment i think he's aware that he's about 10 years older than a lot of the kids who are coming up from behind.

And so he's getting everything out before he expires, before the likes of, you know, like, I might have to go through and see about rappers who are continually commercially successful into their 30s around this point. Because there are more and more of them these days. Because they've mellowed out a little bit and still managed to find a way to be commercially successful. I.e. like Kanye and Drake and a few others who are pop rap crossover artists. But yeah, anyway, I feel like I've gone on about this too much. So I don't know if anyone has anything more to say. No, except this is great, but Spice Up Your Life is better. I might disagree, but I understand where you're coming from at least with that with that

one it's my life is a song i also enjoy a lot so okay um next up on our show is this Sorry seems to be the hardest word What I gotta do to make you love me? What I gotta do to make you care? What I gotta do to make you care? What do I do when lightning strikes me? And I wait to find that you're not there What I gotta do to make you want me? What I gotta do to make you want me? What I gotta do to be heard?

What do I say when it's all over, babe? Sorry seems to be the hardest word It's sad, so sad It's a sad, sad situation And it's getting more and more absurd It's sad, so sad Why can't we talk it over? Always seems to me

The sorry seems to be the hardest word Okay, this is Sorry Seems To Be The Hardest Word by Blue featuring Elton John. Released as the second single from the group's second studio album entitled One Love, Sorry Seems To Be The Hardest Word is Blue's sixth single overall to be released in the uk and their third to reach number one after too close and if you come back both reached the summit in 2001 but it is their last uh at least to date the song is a cover of elton john's original version which reached number 11 in the uk in 1976 it's not the last time we'll be discussing Elton John on this podcast, however. Sorry seems to be the hardest word went straight in at number one as a brand new entry knocking Eminem off the top of the charts.

It stayed at number one for one week. In its first and only week atop the charts, it sold 87,000 copies beating competition from What My Heart Wants To Say by Gareth Gates, which got to number five, the charts it sold 87 000 copies beating competition from what my heart wants to say by gareth gates which got to number five and puppy love by s club juniors which got to number six always the bridesmaid when it was not off the top of the charts sorry seems to be the hardest word fell three places to number four by the time it was done on the charts, it had been inside the top 100 for 20 weeks. The song was certified gold in the UK in July 2020,

so it's sort of enjoyed with a certain crowd of people. Lizzy, Elton John and Blue, how are we feeling about them? Should have done a cover of Puppy Love. That cover was so bad. It was just, oh. about them should have done a cover of Puppy Love that that cover was so bad it was just

oh I know I'm gutted we don't have a chance to talk about it because I would just absolutely destroy it

it's so bad why did they do that in 2002 I know covering the Osmonds it's just Jesus inexplicable

anyway so I have a confession I've never been a fan of Elton John's music I've never been able to heresy heresy I know

I know I'm sorry I've just I've never been able to look past the like faux American thing he does which he took to its logical extreme during the first week of lockdown in 2020

when he performed I'm Dildandin in the middle of a basketball court and I get that that's just his style but it always struck me as a bit too close to pastiche to take it on face value so like I rarely revisit his music and I say that as someone who really likes a lot of those big early 70s singer-songwriters you know I really like Joni Mitchell, Carole King, Paul Simon, James Taylor, Harry Nilsson, even Gilbert O'Sullivan more more than Elton John. But what I will say about him is that he's always been quite generous in terms of giving new stars like a leg up.

Even to this day, he's still doing it. Maybe too generous in this case, because I don't think that Blue really deserved this, nor did they deserve to be working with Stevie Wonder next year. But anyway, it's not really Elton's fault. I just think this is kind of, it's okay. Like Blue themselves do a tasteful job of covering it. And it's only in the last minute or so that it gets a bit ridiculous

as Lee Ryan screams like a child who's just walked into the bathroom and found a big spider patiently waiting for him. But yeah, I don't know. With everything blue, there's just this aggressive okayness about it. And Elton tries his best to give it a bit of heft with that kind of deep south growl that he's got at this point he's not got that boyish you know choir boy vocal anymore um but it's it's not really enough to quite lift this over the top and I think it's easy to see why

as much as they seemed much bigger at the time it's easy to see why this is their last number one because it just feels like the end of this period of like British acts set up as a response to American acts but never been quite as good and us just having to, you know, accept it because that's the way it is. Yeah, I don't really have all that much to say about it, I'm afraid. I think I like Elton's next number one a lot more than this, I will say that. But yeah, this one, it's OK, but not rushing to go back and listen to it again. Andy, how about you? Yeah, I agree with a lot of your points there, Lizzie.

I come from a different viewpoint, though, because I really do like Elton. I think he's great. I do agree with what you said, though, about how he's perhaps a little overly generous with his duets and giving people a leg up. I think the thing to understand about Elton is that he's someone who just likes doing duets. Like he's done so many of them.

Some of them, you know, some of them for big single releases like Don't Go Breaking My Heart or The Cold Heart recently with Dua Lipa. But Elton, just any excuse, any excuse to duet with someone, he'll do it. So it's not really a tough sell sort of similar for Stevie Wonder but he's not as known for it as Elton is um but the thing that I really like about Elton is that unusually given that he doesn't write a lot of his lyrics although he did write the lyrics for this one I always feel like you get a sense of personality a sense of real a person's spirit coming through like it's one of those album not albums sorry one of those artists you can sit and listen to and just feel like you're

really getting to know a person and usually expressed in a very interesting way musically this is me coming from it as you know as a pianist that his songs are just so interesting in terms of the way that they go, usually. But I do understand why he's not for everyone and that he does border on pastiche and he does kind of phone it in a lot of the time, especially during his later years. But I think Elton, when he's at his height, is just such a rich and interesting performer and artist. As for this song, though, yeah, so I've prefaced this song with all of that because then we get this which is um so sorry seems to be the hardest word it's not one of my favorites of his

to begin with really um it's it's all right i do like it i've got nothing against it but i think it's just a little bit kind of a little bit forgettable really but one thing that i do really like about that song is that it's very stripped back that there's no percussion in that song that all there really is is piano strings and then a weird sort of Parisian accordion bit in the middle which I don't like but it's very very stripped back that song because you're getting to a sort of personal emotion where someone is just bereft where they're just like everything's just a mess isn't it I feel like the original is inspired by yesterday

in that it's just a person and their emotions and it's as stripped back as it can possibly be there's no band involved at all I think that's completely lost in this version of it because they put that

very early noughties very boy band over the top of it which just completely ruins that effect completely ruins it and turns it into it's not really even a ballad anymore like it's sort of a kind of mid-tempo kind of bar music song now it's i've never really seen a cover like that so far that the production choices they've made to it have made it no longer a ballad and made it into a sort of i don't even know what you would call it instead but it's lost its character completely um the other thing i really don't like i'll say the other thing there's a few things but the other thing i really don't like about this is that I don't know why they feature Elton,

because they leave it so late. They really don't use him at all. I was keeping an eye on it, and it's about three and a half minutes, this song, and I think it's like the 1.55 point, something like that, at which Elton first starts singing. And also, it's not like a big reveal, a big Elton John, everybody.

It's like mid-verse. He takes the second half of the verse. He just sort of appears unannounced halfway through the song. And it's just a really poor use of him. They do exactly the same thing with Stevie Wonder with Signed, Sealed, Delivered as well. That, by the way, this whole thing of, you know, Blue, who are a current boy band trying to establish themselves as an artist who's going to stick around who is one of the big boys

the fact that they get these big duets to make that happen is something that leaves a really sour taste um it really is nakedly corporate and you, just shows that this is all business, really. Although Elton loves doing duets and so does Stevie Wonder, there's no doubt that both of them have just had a pile of money driven to their house and told, look, can you just do one verse in these songs and appear in the music video? And that made of stone. Yeah, but it is that, they said, look, we'll give you like a million quid. All you have to do is sing one verse of a song that is already yours, appear in the music video, we'll pay for everything a million quid all you have to do is sing one verse of a song that is already yours appear in the music video we'll pay for everything will you do it of course they're gonna say yes why wouldn't they say yes especially because elton could have got a christmas number

one out of this as well potentially um so i see why they do it but it's just oh it leaves a very very very sour taste then there's of course there's lee r Lee Ryan's as you've said Lizzie, Lee Ryan's pained moans of despair that I think he really thinks are like impressive vocal runs that are sort of like Whitney Houston or Mariah Carey and they're really not. If Destiny's

Child sometimes give you just dropped my cup of tea singing then here Lee Ryan is giving me child has just dropped his ice cream singing you know just pure pain um it sounds physically painful and this is like the worst example of that patented Lee Ryan moan it's horrible um yeah there's not much to like about this like the original song is okay it's decent so it gets some points for that. But I think the production completely swallows up the song and misinterprets it.

And I don't know why this song exists, to be honest. So, yeah, don't like it. Yeah. Interesting thing to note that I discovered, both songs this week start with a vinyl crackle. So make of that what you will. Interesting to note, given where we are, you know, these note given where we are you know these days and where we sort of end up 10 years

from 2002 with a bit of vinyl revival going on anyway sorry seems to be the hardest word this is fine like I appreciate the more modern reinterpretation of the original

adding that kind of boy band hip hop backbeat that I love so much, smoothing it out a little. They haven't messed around too much with the feeling of the original while still updating it, so it's achieved the bare minimum there. But having said that, I think the new arrangement restrains the vocals a little bit. If you listen back to the original, it gives Elton loads of space to do subtle vocal acrobatics and little variations here and there, but there's no real room for that in this version. It's very direct and to the point, and I think the more wistful elements of the original are lost here. I also think there's not much of a dynamic shift between verse and chorus with this new version, which means it rests on whether you get lost in it or feel, like, hypnotised by it,

and I don't really think that's possible with how tight the arrangement is and how, like, sort of straightjacketed it all is. Simon Webb is a much stronger vocalist than Lee and Anthony. Yeah. I agree with you guys. There's something I noticed, though, especially with the music video as well,

that Duncan doesn't get his own verse for some reason. He does get a bit. I'm sure that's it. Isn't that not him at the beginning? I think he gets a bit. Yeah, I thought he did as well. Well, Simon comes in with the first verse, and he gets a beer. Yeah, I thought he did as well. Well, Simon comes in with the first verse

and then they give it to Lee and then they do the chorus. And then Anthony comes in with the start of the second verse and then Elton comes in and then Elton finishes the song. No, Duncan's the first verse. Yeah, Duncan's the first verse, I'm sure of it. No, it's Simon Webb in the music video.

But it's Duncan singing. I'm sure of it, yeah. In the music yeah no it's Simon Webb in the music video but it's Duncan singing I'm sure of it yeah in the music video it's Simon Webb singing oh that's interesting oh I'm gonna have to look that up

yeah I'm gonna I'm gonna I think I might I've gotta watch this again well I'm going by genius here I'm just going by recognising the voices

I'm sure of it that it's that it's Duncan James in the first verse er let me see but he only does the first verse I'm just erm just recognising the voices. I'm sure of it, that it's Duncan James in the first verse. Let me see. But he only does the first verse. Just clicking on the YouTube video now. You're not just getting their names confused, are you?

No, no, it's definitely Simon. I mean, I feel like the Simpsons thing where it's Duncan White, Simon Black on my hand. I'm currently having to sit through an advert for Microsoft Game Changers. Right, okay, here we go. Video opens up. There's a light on top of the piano. They're all looking quite forlorn.

They're all in black. Simon goes, Sorry, seems to be the hardest word. And then there's more lights. There's some dancers. It is Duncan! What the hell was I watching so Duncan is singing at me right now

and now he's leaning over the piano we can just cut all that just start again oh I like that that was good fun and then Simon comes in right and then Lee gets the yes right no no I'm going to leave all this in.

Yeah, leave all in. Don't leave that in. One thing I will say, one thing I have learned is that Duncan has a much nicer voice than I'd ever remembered. And so I'm glad he gets to open the song up and wasn't ignored completely like I originally thought.

I'm not sure why I was watching. Maybe I just moved away from it and then came back when Simon did and didn't notice that the voice had changed because their voices are so similar. This is just a classic case of Duncan erasure. Yeah. It's just the Lee Ryan effect. I think it maybe also does...

I'm not going to use my, you know, broken eyes to, like eyes to criticize the song, but maybe this does hint towards something I said, which is that the fact that I thought Lee was singing a verse when he's actually singing the chorus, maybe that speaks to how much of a lack of dynamic shift I noticed. I'm not sure. But anyway, so it was Duncan.

I'm glad that we cleared that up. I'm sure that was amazing radio slash podcasting for everybody listening at home. Do we have anything more to say about Sorry Seems to Be the Hardest Word? I should just say that I think it's fine. It doesn't offend my ears, but it doesn't exactly smooth them over with any nice balm or anything. It's just, oh, you're there, nice, hello and I doubt it will appear in the vault or

I doubt it will appear in the bottom five or top ten that we do at the end of the year it just hang around I've just got one question actually, because this is I'm aware this is the last time that we cover blue, unless they pop up again and I've just got one question actually because this is I'm aware this is the last time that we cover blue

unless they pop up again and I've forgotten something but I think the blue songs we've covered have all been not their best so what would

what would you say if you can make one blue song a number one retroactively what would it be? All Rise it's gotta be All Rise All Rise yeah um what about Fly By All Rise. All Rise, yeah.

What about Fly By, though? Fly By, to me, is just the same as Too Close. I feel like they're sort of the same song. Fair enough. I would go with All Rise instead of if I could trade this for All Rise, then I would do it in a heartbeat. Basically, yeah.

The only other time we will mention them again is at the start of the show in our pop culture segments one week in 2011 we will mention them because they represent us at Eurovision singing I Can and I still remember that song really well that was okay

and they did quite well for us they came like top 10 it might have been top 5 but they did well I will always remember that the first result that came in the night that they did Eurovision by coincidence was 12 points to the United

Kingdom so for a brief moment everybody thought Blue were going to win Eurovision for us and obviously that didn't happen but that's their moment of glory so yeah thanks for everything Blue and thanks for representing us yeah they were also nice enough to represent us at a fan

festival in guitar for the 2022 world cup oh thanks guys yeah thanks for that you just cancelled that out completely tell you what that's keeping the gay audience confused isn't it you do eurovision and then you do the guitar world cup keeping everyone guessing there wow yeah big side they're always they're always playing both sides so that they come out on top as Mac would say the other thing to sort of mention is that I don't think they're on Band Aid 20 I don't think so no

which is only two years from now it's a long time though in pop music terms if you've been away a long time because I can't think of other than Signed, Sealed, Delivered, I can't think of any other singles even that they release after this, so I think

You Make Me Wanna? That's the only one that I can think of. I think by the time Band-Aid 20 rolls around, they are gone like they're already gone they're not on the way down, they're already finished Yeah, well Simon Webb has a solo run, doesn't he?

But is it after Band-Aid 20? He doesn't get any number ones, but he has No Worries, No Worries or whatever that song is. That's after. That's about 2005-ish, that. Yeah. Yeah.

Hmm. Anyway, Blue, goodbye. I was going to try and make some pun about if they come back or if you come back, but I can't be bothered. They were blue, da-ba-dee-da-ba-die. Goodbye. Yes.

So before we go, we're just going to check whether any songs this week are going to go up into the vault or down into the pie hole. Lose Yourself by Eminem. That's going in the vault for me and me I might as well, I wasn't going to but I might as well because I like to conform so yeah

cool, alright then, so it's another triple vaulter good to know and sorry seems to be the hardest word I'm not going to put it anywhere it's not bad enough to go in the pie hole I think this is one of those songs that's

aggressively generic aggressively okay aggressively okay is definitely the phrase yeah aggressively okay sounds like an appropriate note to end on we will be back next time and we'll be covering the

race for Christmas number one in 2002. Will Blue hold on to the top spot? Will Eminem come back or something like that? Will something sweep in and take the number one spot from everybody else? Well, you all already know and you can Google it, but stay with us anyway.

We will see you next time. Thank you very much for listening this time so bye bye see ya I'm rooting for the cheeky girls bye bye