Hits 21 - 2002 (3): Oasis, Sugababes, Holly Valance

Episode Date: February 3, 2023

Hello again, everyone, and welcome back to Hits 21, the show that's taking a look back at every UK #1 hit single of the 21st century - from January 2000, right through to the present day. Twitter: @Hits21UK Email: [e-mail]

All right there, everyone, and welcome back to Hits 21, where me, Rob. Me, Andy. And me, Lizzie. All look back at every single UK number one of the 21st century from January 2000 right through to the present day. If you want to get in touch with us, you can find us over on Twitter. We are at Hits21UK. That is at Hits21UK, and you can email us too. You can just send it on over to Hits21Podcast at gmail.com. Thank you ever so much for joining us again. Just like our previous episodes, we're going to be taking a look back at some

number one singles from the year 2002 this time we'll be covering the period from the 21st of april through to the 11th of may it's a very short period of time but that's what we get for reducing the number of songs we do every week um looking back to last week our poll winner was the lovely will young with Anything Is Possible, Double A Side, with Evergreen. I think Evergreen probably tipped the scales with that one for most people out there. Yeah, I would have thought so.

So, congratulations to Will. And the winner is... Will! He's done it again! Wow. Okay, on to this week's episode And as always, we're just going to give you some news headlines From the very short period of time That these songs were number one

Seven people are killed And 76 more are injured When a train derails at Potter's Bar train station In Hertfordshire An inquest into the crash which only began in 2010 revealed that faulty points in the track were the chief cause of the accident in may 2011 network rail were fined three million pounds for failing to ensure that the track was safe and labor politician barbara castle dies at the age of 91. Lisa Lopez, better known as Left Eye, who achieved four top ten singles in the UK

as a member of the R&B group TLC, dies in a car crash at just 30 years of age. At the time, Lopez was filming a documentary while on holiday when she swerved to avoid an oncoming truck. She was the only person killed in the crash. And in football, Arsenal win both the Premier League and the FA Cup in the space of a week, achieving their second league and cup double in five seasons. In the FA Cup final, a 2-0 win over Chelsea was enough for them to take the trophy, meaning that they had won the FA Cup for the eighth time in their history.

That was the first time I ever put a bet on a football game, I won £7.50. That wasn't legal Rob, you were a tiny little boy. Yeah, my dad did it on my behalf. Yeah, I won £7.50 because I predicted a specific result. My dad basically said okay what score do you think it's going to be? And I'll go and put some money on for you. And I said, oh, really specifically 2-0 to Arsenal. And it was 15-1. My dad only used to put 50p on bets just for fun. It was just a thing we did. We used to bet on the FA Cup final. And it was the only thing we ever really put a bet on.

And so 50p got me £7.50 back. I don't know what I bought with it. It was probably lots and lots of sweets and my dad my mum's glaring at my dad like getting him into gambling and overloading him with sugar on a weekend thanks

you went and invested it all in soy you got greedy Martin the only film to hit the top of the UK box office during this period was about a boy which grossed 11.4 million during its three weeks at the top meanwhile charlotte church becomes the youngest person to appear on have i got news for you at the age of just 16 church would return as host in 2003 and then again in 2012. The film Spider-Man is released in the US directed by Sam Raimi and starring Tobey Maguire as Spider-Man and Willem Dafoe as Norman Osborn

aka the Green Goblin. It was the first film to reach 100 million dollars in a single weekend as well as the most successful film based on a comic book at the time, and it is credited for redefining the modern superhero genre. That and Spider-Man 2, still two of the absolute best superhero films. I cannot tell you how much I love both of those films. They're absolutely excellent. Yeah, I've got fond memories of both. The third one, not so much. No, I deliberately didn't mention the third one,

because it would be a perfect trilogy if not for that, but yeah. And the first Monday Night Raw episode under the World Wrestling Entertainment name is broadcast following a lawsuit by the World Wildlife Fund for the initials WWF. In addition to that, Hulk Hogan wins his first WWE Championship since 1993. He returned to the WWE earlier in 2002 following its acquisition of WCW in 2001. Hogan was 48 years old at the time, the second oldest WWE Champion in history, the oldest

being none other than Vincent Kennedy McMahon who won the championship at age 54 in 1999. That's a lot of Ws. What a company. Andy, how are the album charts looking for these three weeks, these three short weeks? Yeah, well, because it's only three weeks that we're covering, I've got relatively little to talk to you about. Replacing Celine Dion at the top spot who who had a number one last week with a new day has come replacing

her at number one is blue friends of the podcast blue of course with all rise which oddly had been released about six months earlier but I'd only made it to number one at this point the first week at number one as well it's not like it returned to number one this was its. The first week at number one as well. It's not like it had returned to number one. This was its first week at the top. And it went four times platinum, a huge success for them. We had that album in my household, I must say. Same.

Oh, yeah, same. Oh, all three of us. That's lovely. And then a very surprising one, I think, considering this sort of level of popularity that's usually required for number one is uh the blue were unseated by doves with the last broadcast who were number one for two weeks with that album and went platinum with it which you know fair play to them but i'm quite surprised that it managed two weeks i can see it sneaking in for one but two that's very impressive so well

done doves yeah they were in the top 20 around this time with Here Comes the Fear as well. So yeah, doing all right, Doves, in 2002. Lizzie, how are things faring on the other side of the Atlantic? Yeah, also pretty quiet. I've only got one artist to cover, actually. So following Jennifer Lopez's six-week run, which I mentioned last time, So, following Jennifer Lopez's six-week run, which I mentioned last time, Ashanti's debut single Foolish hit the number one spot for ten straight weeks.

Yeah, that's a great fucking record, that. It is, it is. It also finished at number two on the 2002 year-end Hot 100 behind How You Remind Me by Nickelback, as well as finishing at number 19 on the Decade End Hot 100, but it stalled at number four in the UK in July of this year. Yeah. Stupid British public. That sample, that Debarge sample,

God, they must be so rich off that. I know. He's been in everything. On the subject of Ashanti, she also held the top spot on the albums chart around this time with her debut self-titled album, which stayed at number one for three weeks, went three times

platinum in the US, and finished at number 12 on the year-end list, but got stuck at number three on the UK albums chart in July of this year, one spot behind our first artist this week. Ooh, okay. And who might that be, I wonder?

Hmm. Ah, that's a great segue there, Lizzie. You did my job for me. Thank you very much. Yeah, our first single up this week is this. I can't swim, but my soul won't drown. I do believe I got flair. I got speed, and I walk on air. Cause God gave me soul, and I can obey.

In your heart I can't obey Cause God gave me soul In your heart I can't obey And I get so high I just can't feel it And I get so high I just can't feel it And around my brain, running through my flame You're my sunshine, you're my rain

This is The Hindu Times by Oasis. Released as the lead single from the group's fifth album entitled Heathen Chemistry, The Hindu Times is Oasis' 19th single overall to be released in the UK. It is their sixth number one in the UK and their second number one of the 21st century, but it is not their last. The Hindu Times went straight in at number one as a brand new entry, knocking Gareth Gates off the top of the charts. It stayed at number one for one week. In its first and only week at number one, it sold 116,000 copies, beating competition from Girlfriend by NSYNC, which

got to number two, and There Goes the Fear by Dubs, which got to number three. When it was knocked off the top of the charts, the Hindu Times dropped three places to number four, and by the time it was done on the charts, it had been inside the top 100 for just a short stay of 11 weeks, which I think is the shortest we've had so far.

Definitely among the shortest, if not the shortest. Andy? This is what I would call the sort of generic period for Oasis, really, where they're very much going through the motions and there's little of substance, unfortunately. I think, I'm going to say straight out of the bat, that I don't think there's any other reason for this to get to number one other than that it's the lead single of the new oasis album i think the the level of goodwill for them is still so high from their peak in the mid 90s

that it's still relatively straightforward for them to get number ones for the lead singles just as they did with go let it out which is an annoying thing to, you know, to hear about, especially with other songs that don't make it to number one from artists who've had to try so hard. And that rankles me, you know, in terms of an artist going through the motions, still achieving success so easily. But really, that kind of annoyance is there because there's just nothing to this song, really. I sort of get set on the wrong there's just nothing to this song, really. I sort of get set on the wrong foot with it straight away by thinking,

why is this song called The Hindu Times? You know, I was just very sort of bemused by that. I couldn't detect anything from the lyrics and having looked into it, it's just random. It's just, in Noel Gallagher's own words, the title was decided before any lyrics had been written for the song It's like oh well It literally doesn't mean anything then You know where that came from don't you No

He apparently saw a t-shirt in a charity shop With it on Yeah I've heard the same story The thing is Oasis always did this With their lyrics Don't look back in anger is a good one where it's like it's not about anything the lyrics are just nonsense but back in those days you know they hid that very well that it sounds as if it could be about something it's that kind of writing that you can project meaning onto which you know the oasis

always wanted to compare themselves to the beals and that was the thing that the beals were fantastic at of having quite vague lyrics that you could project things onto. And Oasis were very good at that in the 90s. But now, not so much. Now it's tended to, just as it was with Go Let It Out, now the kind of lyrics we're getting are just like, in and out my brain

you're running through my vein. Not veins, vein. Vein, plural. Vein, singular, I should say. And just, like, I get so high, I just can't feel it. What am I supposed to pull from that? Like, there's just no substance to this at all. And it just annoys me.

Like, I think the worst crime that a number one song can commit is to be boring rather than to be outright bad, because we've had some terrible songs so far that have hit number one song can commit is to be boring rather than to be outright bad because we've had some terrible songs so far that have hit number one but i think to be boring is almost kind of worse really especially when it's the lead single of your album and from here you know things do improve for oasis in terms of the next album after this they do have some fairly solid singles from and dig out your soul i didn't really mind too much either as well but yeah i've not got a huge amount of time for this i i think the wall of sound thing that they're still

relentlessly going out as well it just doesn't work for them and i think it's no coincidence that the two other singles from this album little by little and stop crying your heart out sorry are far more well remembered regardless of what we think of their quality they're far more well remembered i think than this song because they do something a little bit different as opposed to the usual liam screams down the mic while the guitars try to drown him out and they just sort of sing about nothing that kind of generic thing just doesn't last with oasis whereas when they do some ballads or they do some stuff that you know is a little bit different in terms of sound then people latch on to that and when they

release the importance of being guileful in a few years time people are like wait this is something interesting from Oasis great let's get back on board this is just Oasis by numbers um and yeah I've not got a huge amount of positive things to say about it, to be honest. I was very disappointed by this one, unfortunately. Yeah. Yeah, I agree with a lot of your points, Andy. Like to me, this is aggressively mid.

Like, don't get me wrong. It's not as much of a chore to sit through as Go Let It Out, but it feels like Oasis is stuck in this rock and roll rut where all they can do is pay homage to the past without doing anything to build on it. And considering the next single we're going to cover on this episode, I don't think that's good enough at this stage. Like, the guitar riff is the centrepiece of this track, you know, the do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do and even that's cribbed, intentionally or not, from Same Size Feet by the Stereophonics.

Like, I wonder if they were maybe aiming for that raga rock style that you get on songs like See My Friends by The Kinks or 8 Miles High by The Birds or even Ticket to Ride by The Beatles but, as usual, they don't have the

poise or the patience to really follow it through and it's also the only suggestion of any kind of South Asian influence that the title teases. It turns out this song has nothing to do with India or Hinduism and is just another vehicle for the usual Oasis lyrics about swagger and confidence shining on and rock and roll and sunshine and rain again like you know it's it's not as bad as some of the other tracks on Heathen Chemistry which are among the worst songs that the Gallagher brothers ever wrote. Yeah, agreed. But this just doesn't do enough to stand out in a world where guitar rock is rapidly losing its relevance.

Yeah, really succinctly put, especially that last bit. I will say, off Heath and Chemistry, Songbird is quite nice, and Stop Crying Your Heart Out is quite nice. The other singles, but Little by Little, oh my God. Just, I remember thinking, no, that's decent, and then I listened to it a few years ago, and I'm just, what on earth was I thinking, thinking I enjoyed that?

Just that opening line, true perfection has to be imperfect. It's like, Jesus, are you 12? But yeah, with the Hindu times though, I think I like this just about. I think after the, I don't know, excess of be Here Now and the tedium of Standing on the Shoulder of Giants. This is a bit of a, it's an anthem, you know, it's direct to the point, returns Oasis sort of to their early sound. It's a rabble rouser, you know, the intro does an effective job of ramping up the tension and anticipation. You know, there are loads of songs I can think of where they just sit on the one note in the beginning, and where they're just the one chord, where it's like, the longer it revolves, you think, oh, you know, where's this going, I can think of sort of like,

you know, the whole introduction of Nancy Boy by Placebo, which is just the... for ages and ages and ages. And I've always preferred, you know, Liam coming in on Oasis songs than I do Noel. Like, whenever Liam turns up on an Oasis song, I'm like, yeah, yeah, there you go, that feels right. Whereas with Noel, it's like, ah, he's trying again, is he? Fair enough. And I think, you know, I imagine the fans were pretty happy when that lick comes in, because, like, you know,

Oasis fans have... They have an appreciation for the louder Oasis stuff, I think, more than they do their quieter stuff. The first chorus finds a way to go up from that pretty full-on intro um and i think that you know the one note that the song does stick on is is it is enough for a good time like you know it got to number one so clearly the fans and the public were into it and they've got more number ones after this which i admit are better but like you know as much as the genre they're part of is maybe losing relevance, Oasis are kind of going down with the ship, so fair enough.

But I think it's the first chorus on this that also starts to explain my issues with it and Oasis in general. I think the first problem is that it reveals all of its tricks far too soon. You know, it does the main hook, which is the, God give me a soul in your rock and roll, babe. And it does that twice. But then it does the post-chorus, the first post-chorus, which is the, And I get so high I just can't feel it. But then it does the second post-chorus, the first post-chorus, which is the, And I get so high, I just can't feel it. But then it does the second post-chorus, which is the, In and out by brain, running through my veins.

And it's all too much too soon. It needs to learn about, as we'll see with the next song, withholding things for later. Wait for the release. Give the release later on it's all front loaded because there's something inherent about post morning glory oasis that causes all subtlety and now to just kind of evaporate on site like by the time it gets to that second chorus that's when you want the the post chorus and the second post chorus to come because i feel like if you just did the intro the verse and the first chorus which then would finish with the second run rounder of you're rock and

roll burn go back into the intro do the verse then add the post-choruses later it hints at development but because it's all front loaded and up front by the time you get to the bridge after the second chorus you want in a big solo like a big something you know like yeah we've we've come this far this is decent so far where are you going to go from here um instead all it does is repeats the intro with a slight variation of the guitar lick um and it that just means that it's by from you know in the first 90 seconds it goes up far too quickly and it's too long to justify putting all of its ideas on show at the beginning and by the middle i'm just kind of eager for it to finish um i also think that speeding the song

up from its demo take means that it loses some attitude and some angst like i was saying before i normally prefer liam to come in on oasis songs but noel's version the earlier version i think is superior it sounds like something from like i know gish you know smashing pumpkins first or second record depending on how you feel and in the end what they've done is by speeding it up it just sounds like a very very inferior rock and roll star and i feel like with when oasis first arrived with this whole like you know that the sound where it's like they kind of sounded like my bloody valentine that had been stabbed by cigarettes a lot you know they had it they were kind of like my bloody valentine but where my where my bloody valentine were ethereal

and as they were once brilliantly described sounding like a mermaid falling into a black hole Oasis have an edge to them that makes it feel like they've got three pints inside of them and it works really well and I think on that first record that kind of wall of sound that they go for that in that constantly enveloping and hypnotic section at the end of rock and roll star the it's just rock and roll thing where it's really disorienting and i think it really works on that particular record at that particular time but by the late 90s in the early 2000s the loudness was set in and all subtlety has gone out of their songwriting and so when they're cribbing notes and riffs from other bands

now it doesn't sound as there's a little bit of a wink to the start of um cigarettes and alcohol cribbing off t-rex there's a little bit of a wink where it's like we're showing our influences whereas with this it's just oh well this is a thing we decided to do it's an idea isn't it um and it just feels like all the if anything making it so similar to rock and roll star i think it even uses the same chord sequence or really similar one anyway but by slowing it down it just takes 50 of the energy out and it just makes it sound very inferior to their early material. Andy, I agree with you. The lyrics, there's a hole where the heart should be.

It's all bluster and show and fist pumping, but there's no euphoria. There's no release of emotion. It just kind of stays in the same emotional state from beginning to end. There's no subject here beyond, oh, doesn't it feel good yes what feels good like what what thing has inspired this feeling um it's fine but like i could take a guess yeah yes exactly yeah but then you just need to listen to be here now or just read about how they made that yeah of course I think it really, it survives

because of the first 90 seconds but then it doesn't do anything else afterwards and like I don't dislike this, I'm on the fence leaning towards liking it but I just don't have good feelings about Oasis I think growing up around Manchester and being a city

fan and stuff, you're just sort of expected to like them, and people act really shocked and upset and offended when you say that you find them quite boring after a point. Yeah. And so maybe there's a little bit of that in this, and I'm a bit biased against them. I will say, though, the songs that we come to later on with Oasis,

I much prefer them to this. This is fine. But at least it's not little by little. Thank God it's not. Yeah. I just want to say, I really liked the phrase post-morning glory Oasis. So that'd be detumescent Oasis. Oh gosh. Where the rest of the day has to carry on. The only thing I wanted to add was, Lizzie, what you were saying about how they kind of never really commit to the Indian or Hindu influence, that it's just sort of a thing they want to mention

without much actual commitment to it. It was recorded pretty much around the time George Harrison died. So I wonder if that played a part in it. Because that was a sort of big... Obviously, he committed to it far more, George Harrison, but I wonder if that was in their heads, because that was sort of a little bit culturally relevant at the time. So, yeah, that was just a thought.

I don't know if there's anything to it, though. Yeah, no, it's a really good point. I think Oasis would be grateful that you mentioned that as an influence actually oh for sure yeah I'm always

I'm always as Paul McGann says in Doctor Who human beings always looking looking for patterns in things that aren't there and I'm very bad

for that I always give people far more credit than they deserve but yeah I've been very nasty about Oasis on this occasion

so let's give them that one at least yeah we'll make up for it in 2005. But anyway, next up is this. Let me lay it on the line I got a little freakiness inside And you know that I'm mad Get out of here with it

I don't care what they say I'm not about to play nobody's way Cause it's all about the dark in me I wanna sleep in the morning I freak in the evening I need a rough neck Run it back and satisfy me Look at me

If you are the kind of man It's all that kind of girl I got a freaky secret Everybody's saying Cause we don't give a damn about a thing Cause I'll be a freak At the end of the day Until the dawn We'll see you next time. This is Freak Like Me by Sugar Babes. Released as the lead single from the group's second studio album entitled Angels With Dirty Faces, Freak Like Me is Sugar Bae's fifth single overall to be released in the UK.

It is their first single to reach number one, but it is not their last. Freak Like Me went straight in at number one as a brand new entry, knocking Oasis off the top of the charts. It stayed at number one for one week in its first and only week at number one it sold 86 000 copies beating competition from one step closer by s club juniors which got to number two and you held the world in your arms by idle wild which got to number nine when it was knocked off the top of the charts, Freak Like Me fell two places to number three, and by the time it was done on the charts, it had been inside the top 100 for 18 weeks.

Lizzie, Freak Like Me, Sugar Babes, let's go. Yeah, well, yet again, we've come to an incredible, era-defining song on the podcast, and it's just as difficult to talk about as the previous ones have been. One of those being Groovejet by Spiller which actually has a fairly similar backstory to this which is it's an underground dance track that slowly gained traction and rightfully became a smash hit when paired with vocals by contemporary artists and like mashups doing well

in the charts is nothing new by this point as early as 1990 you had Beats International hitting number one with Don't Be Good To Me and we've even covered Toca's Miracle by Fragment on this very podcast but with Freak Like Me it does something I think quite rare by combining two songs with completely different vibes to create a song with an entirely new aura. Like while Gary Newman's Our Friend Electric is lonely and paranoid and the Idina Howard original Freak Like Me is cool and confident, like me is cool and confident. The combination of the two on this track creates this sense of power, dominance and it's like something to strike fear into the hearts of those who want to have a go because they think they're freaky enough. And much like another era-defining song we've covered Can't Get You Out of My Head by Kylie Minogue. There's this suggestion of a dark secret that they never elaborate on, unless you've watched the video, in which case you'll know that the freaky secret

is that at least one of the Sugar Babes is actually a vampire. Where I think it differs from Can't Get You Out of My Head is that in that song, as Everett True puts it, the darker element of it is hidden in plain sight. It's obvious to some but it's concealed by the style and sleekness for most. With Freak Like Me that darker element is the song. It's on full display from the very beginning with that throbbing synth pulse leading you into the bit crush sample and Mucha Buena's sweet vocal luring you into the bit crush sample and much of when is sweet vocal

luring you into this murky underworld full of tension and danger but also the possibility of an encounter with one of the untouchable sugar babes like this isn't a suggestion of darkness this is an outright assertion of it and pride in the power that it gives them over those who take it as a challenge. That sense of danger and imminent threat is what makes this song so exciting to this day. Like that Newman sample in particular, it still sounds incredible. It holds on to all that nervous energy all these years later when the time between us and the release of our friend electric is the same as the time between the release of that song and the silver jubilee of king george v like that is the true measure of a great pop song the ability to still be immediate

and striking regardless of the passage of time and that for me puts this in the upper echelons of british pop music and easily places it among the greatest uk number one singles of all time yeah totally agree um especially that point about our friends electric um that was really well put you have been i don't know how you've managed to do it this week especially you always bring so much great stuff to this show but i don't know like this week these two where you've managed to communicate something very very powerful and very very succinct in not many words it's um it's a great gift it really is yeah we need to stop paying Lizzie by the word. Andy, what about you?

Just to say, I fully agree. I couldn't possibly follow that up, Lizzie. That was superb. But yeah. Thank you. I also want to briefly give a shout out to our number two at this time, One Step Closer by S Club Juniors, which of course had no chance

of beating Freak Like Meat in one. It would have been an absolute travesty if it had. One Step Closer by S Club Juniors which of course had no chance of being Freak Like Me to one, it would have been an absolute travesty if it had but I just had to mention it because my husband has always had a thing about this song that he's convinced, bear in mind it's eight cheery kids on a dance floor basically doing

Don't Stop Moving, he's been convinced that this song is about the kids considering suicide after a breakup and me and Lizzie have discussed this since, and it kind of has some weight to it. Like, it actually sort of is. Like, the skeletons in the video, there's like some fairly dark imagery in there. And that song is just weird. So I almost wish we could have discussed it properly.

But anyway, we're not here to talk about that. As for Freak Like Me, I mean, yeah, I mean, I really do echo everything you've said there, Lizzie, it properly but anyway we're not here to talk about that as for freak like me i mean yeah i mean i really do echo everything you've said there lizzie that this is something genuinely unique in that you know it's a combination of so many different elements that have come together to make something very special and i think the thing that always strikes me the most is is you know sort of what you said already about how the use of our friend's electric, the use of that sample, they don't really do that much with it. Like they sort of, for lack of a better term, beef it up a bit. You know, there's a little bit more bass behind it, some percussion on it, but they don't do a huge amount with that sample,

really. And yet it still sounds like it's in an entirely different song. It has absolutely no relationship with Freak Like Me, Our Friend's Electric. They feel like completely different songs to me, and considering that they have pretty much the same skeleton as each other, as songs go, it's very remarkable to me that they don't sound anything like each other, really. I absolutely love this. And I've always been not the biggest fan of the Sugar Babes,

which we'll probably get into as the decade goes on. I think they're a little bit overrated. But this one I've always loved because it is just something really, really odd and really sort of visceral is the word i would use for this song really um where you just sort of can't help but sort of stop and listen to it um it is era defining for sure and i think it does stand alongside those really special ones we've covered so far but i do have one point of criticism for it um which sort of keeps it from being completely perfect, like the few that we've mentioned in the past.

The Sugar Names vocals, I just think they're a little bit restrained, a little bit anonymous. I would like a little bit more power in the vocals to really give this a character for them as artists, rather than just they've been given a really

great song to perform um i just wish we'd get a little bit more personality from them and i think given that all the other elements of this song are so strong that kind of jumps out to me but i don't want to focus on the negative there that's just kind of the one problem i have with it yeah it's it's just excellently put together it sort of comes out of nowhere in context of where we are in music right now which is it's like it's just hilarious really that this follows Will and Gareth and Westlife last week and then a generic Oasis single before this that we get Freak Like Me out of nowhere. It's wonderful.

I think it is, without question, the best Sugar Babes song by several acres of land. One of the best girl band songs ever i don't think it's one of the best number ones ever but i do think it's one of the very best that we've covered so far i absolutely love it and if we got a little bit more character out of the sugar babes then this would be perfect for me it's it's very close to perfect yeah um i have to concur with basically everything that you two have said i think i land in the middle um which is that i absolutely love this um we've talked on this podcast about how naff and derivative and unimaginative and how representative of stagnation quite a lot of the covers on this show have been so far, that they've shown a lack of invention, have relied almost entirely on the public's nostalgia

to excuse how little they've updated things, whereas this sounds so fresh and so new and so exciting, and like, it's a cover version of a song from 1995 sampling something from 1979. And it sounds like something from like, I don't know the year, like 3006, like the, the electro clash aesthetics, the throbbing bass,

the drums, the way everything sounds so compressed and suffocating and like a good way. Like it really struts. It's one of those songs that has the power to make you think you're in some kind of music video walking along to the beat. The performances are sensual and they match the lyrical content

really well. Before I was talking about withholding things so that you don't reveal everything up front and that good for me moment towards the end is a massive cathartic release and every time you listen back to the song it's the moment you anticipate and because it's towards the back of the song it means that you're waiting for that moment for what feels

like forever and then when it arrives it's like oh and it's like a huge weight has been lifted and you can really get back to sort of enjoying the feeling again. And just because of the way that Chuboy Army sample keeps revolving around and around and around, and then it switches to a different section of our friends electric. And that's why it hits so hard when they do the final release towards the end. Like you, Andy, the only mark i have against this is that the girls aren't quite strong enough as vocalists i don't think on this to carry the whole thing there are moments where they're a bit overshadowed ever so slightly um but it's only like a tiny

nitpick like i think this is so glorious um it's been in my regular rotation for ages now anyway i love this song um glad that we finally got to sugar babes because you know like sugar babes and girls allowed for me like we were spoiled for girl groups in the 2000s i think from the uk um and obviously as well a massive shout out to gary newman and tube boy army because they were making genuinely daring experimental stuff that's now defined decades worth of pop in this country the noises in this song like i i think this is this could be the first electro clash number one that we've had oh maybe i you know because that's a that's a big deal in the second half of the 2000s especially in pop music and especially

in the songs that we're going to cover really harsh electronic synths and like trying to manipulate them and readjust them for a more mainstream audience and I feel like this is a really early example of that about six years before

it really really gets accepted into the mainstream on a regular basis and the final shout out that i wanted to give is that this um this song's the originator um adina howard um she i never realized until like basically last week that of course adina howard is who kendrick is referencing on backseat freestyle he name drops her in the second verse oh yeah because he goes and i recognize you have what and that adina howard had popping fast to impress her and like yeah of course kendrick would have been around because that song is kendrick is an 18 year old and he would have been 18

around the time that adina howard was uh was actually no he would have been even younger than that he would have been like 12 when adina howard was like out with um her big hits and stuff in the like in the 90s so yeah it was like oh yeah of course that's who he was talking about because obviously um the original version of freak like me was a huge hit in america i think it got to like number two on the billboard charts um but i think it only got to like number 35 over here or maybe even only as high as 32 33 something like that yeah something like that mid 30s yeah so yeah um so fair play to sugar base for being the ones that come up and do the vocals for this and we get a great hit out of it but i do i really do love um our friends

electric i mean i know that's kind of it's kind of like pretty obvious like everybody loves it but i do really think that that particular period of electronic pop music between sort of like 79 to 82 81 when like the weirdos and the freaks have got access access to keyboards like gary newman and the human league and stuff like that that's stuff and suicide and bands like that like that's that's stuff i really really enjoy and i'm it's a testament to how much their compositions last that they're still not i would say still now they're still really big deals like you know everybody everybody knows don't you want me or something you know or cars or something like that it's just yeah it's really it's always good when freaks get hold of things

and just immediately like that they get like a really short span of time in in the public limelight and it's like oh there's a guy like me. And you're like, oh, yeah, he makes interesting stuff. And it's really good that he's managed to stick around and that Sugar Babes were happy enough to jump on this. I think this is excellent. I love this. So, yeah, I don't know if we have anything more to say. Two things.

I also wanted to give a shout out to the producer Richard X who did the original mashup what was it We Don't Give a Damn About Our Friends by Girls on Top credit to him but also just on your point Rob about how freaks pop up in the charts

it's kind of a worry of mine that as we go on we'll see less and less of that I agree yes yeah um i think to be honest even where we are now we see less and less of it this is why i kind of subscribe to the same theory that the guys at chart music do which is that the best period for singles like really getting up high in the charts was that really short period just after punk and just before electric 80s as it's now known like the Aventis

the Aventis as they call them yes basically everything between the Sex Pistols and Howard Jones or Band-Aid you cut off point really that is a really crystal clear yeah

sadly there are fewer and fewer freaks I think as the years go by we get a couple of freaks as we go along in the charts and I'll always sing their praises but yeah so thank you Sugar Babes

you're not really freaks either but you were freaks for this song so thank you you're freaks freaks either but you know you were freaks for this song so thank you um you're freaks like us yes for but momentarily at least um although i will give a shout out to one that we won't get to cover on this podcast uh from the 90s which was overload um another very yeah the thing about sugar babies that i really love is that they approach the girl group dynamics slightly differently and there's another one of their singles from this year that i think is another one of those like oh this is something new isn't it um and i'm really looking forward to to get

into that i'm also looking forward to the final song this week admittedly to a much uh lesser degree than i am the next sugar babes number one. But our final song this week is this. Thank you. Here, there, and everywhere Sparks fly when we are together You can't deny the facts of life You don't have to act like a star Try your moves in the back of your car You know that we can go far Cause tonight you're gonna get mine Don't play the games that you play Cause you know that I won't wanna play

Why ain't you asking me to stay? Cause tonight I'm gonna give you mine Okay, this is Kiss Kiss by Holly Valance Released as the lead single from her debut studio album entitled Footprints, Kiss Kiss is also Holly Valance's first single to be released in the UK, and of course her first number one. It is her last, however. This song is a reworking of the 1997 single Sumaruk by Turkish singer Tarkan. Kiss Kiss went straight in at number one as a

brand new entry knocking Sugar Babes off the top of the charts. It stayed at number one for one week. In its first and only week atop the charts it sold 143,000 copies beating competition from Oops Oh My by Tweet which got to number five, At Night by Shakedown which got to number 6 and No More Drama by Mary J Blige which got to number 9. When it was knocked off the top of the charts, Kiss Kiss dropped one place to number 2 and by the time it was done on the charts it had been inside the top 100 for a decent stay of 17 weeks. Lizzie, how are we with Kiss Kiss? Do-de-de-de-de-de-de-de-de-de-de-de-de-de-de.

Yeah, this is decent. I mentioned a couple of episodes back that 2002 has this kind of micro-trend of number ones influenced by South Asian and Middle Eastern music, and this one is no exception. Admittedly I had no idea before researching this that it was a cover of an American song which is itself a cover of a Turkish song. Like I assumed there was some like covert sampling going on like in More Than a Woman but this is almost identical to the original Tarcan song, at least in terms of sound.

Lyrically, they're both about lust, but from different angles. The original Sumaru translates to spoilt. And from the rough translations I've seen, Tarkan is seemingly obsessed with a woman who's already with another man, describing her as spoilt because she flaunts herself confidently in plain view of him even though he can't have her. It's more than a bit chauvinist and the kiss kiss part of it feels more like a threat than an enticing proposal.

So the English version, which was originally recorded by Stella Soleil, wisely changes the lyrics to be more about, you know, enticing and reassuring a lover. It's actually kind of similar in theme to a song we've already covered, which is Love Don't Cost a Thing by Jennifer Lopez. Like, this isn't so much about money and possessions, but they both centre around reassuring someone that grand gestures aren't needed because the feeling between them is mutual. Much like that song though, this kind of

runs out of steam after the halfway point and there's like, you know the jerky breakdown part towards the end? Yeah. Which is very 2002. Something like that. And it doesn't progress much overall but still it's not bad and it's quite refreshing to

hear something so blatantly non-western in its sound on top of the uk charts yeah um i sort of agree with you there actually um in the sense that I find it difficult to wholeheartedly agree or disagree with this song's existence and also your comments about it. I really thought I would have more to say about this, but somehow I don't. Like, whenever I was listening, yeah, like, whenever I was listening to the three songs for this week, I'd be like, hindu times like you know yeah it's okay got more problems with it than i thought but you know pretty good whereas i'm like freak like me well this is a song i love anyway so here's my here's my chance to you know really get on my soapbox about it and then whenever kiss kiss came around it was like oh yeah this again

like this at the end yeah it's fine i guess like i think it's thoroughly decent like yeah yeah i enjoy the turkish influences a bit and the introduction kind of reminds me of like songs from little bit like songs from bollywood movies i know it's turkey rather than india but like um the introduction kind of reminds me of like scenes in bollywood movies where a song would start and the characters get ready to do the the musical number they all move into they kind of move out of the scene and into the music video because if people don't know i'm sure they do but like there's this whole kind of subset within bollywood where um like the musical routines will just be mini music videos in this three-hour epic film that will then be

sold separately you can just buy the the videos on dvd that the music videos and like the whole thing these are really elaborate setups with like 400 extras and the most gorgeous costumes you've ever seen like the one the one i'm sort of reminded of if people want to watch it is um say shava shava from kabikushi kabigam um the intro really reminds me of like the first 30 seconds of that routine there's a just as another shout out there's a there's a bit in that scene to look for in, say, Shava Shava, which is spelled, well, say, and then S-H-A-V-A, and it's just the same. Where Shah Rukh Khan is doing this amazing routine where the camera is following him round as if it's the centre point on a clock face and he's the long hand. And it follows him round in a circle and then he stops there's a group of dancers behind him that carry on off camera and then a group of female dancers with

a woman in front of them enters the frame and then the camera starts to follow them and it's all this single take and it's just glorious proper like bodies moving through space kind of stuff uh anyway you can tell i'm extolling the virtues of a film that has bugger all to do with Holly Valance. What I will say is that later on in her career, she dated a musician called Frank Music, who did two great singles that I love. Oh, yeah.

Confusion Girl and Three Little Words. She appeared in one of his music videos, which was the one for Confusion Girl. She was in Neighbours and quite successful in that apparently. She was on Strictly Come Dancing and finished fourth. And this time

last year she was at some dinner with Donald Trump and Nigel Farage. So you know. Yeah. She's had a life. She sure has. And she's still not 40 no which makes you realise how bloody young she must have been

yeah she was about 17 when all this happened but it's a name for some reason it's a name you never forget is it you always know that Holly Valance did Kiss Kiss really strange tangent, but like, Goodbye My Lover by James Blunt.

It's not a song we'll get to discuss on this podcast, but that was the number one pick for UK funerals in 2006. That was the most played song at UK funerals for an entire year. And then last year on Popmaster, somebody on Radio 2, somebody was asked who performed Goodbye My Lover. And the person on the other end of the phone did not know who had performed it, which is obviously James Blunt.

Whereas I feel like if you were asked who did Kiss Kiss, I feel like Holly Valance's name would just come right next to it it kind of rolls off the tongue as a whole kiss kiss by holly valance and so it's clearly had a cultural imprint that i've missed uh or not felt part of really i remember it from the time i don't really have much to say about it but it's something you don't forget it kind of sticks in your mind anyway um so yeah i think this is fine it's all right it just doesn't inspire anything really within me what it does inspire within me has more to do with other things other texts other other media uh andy round us off yeah i've not got

a huge amount more to add to be honest i. I think that whole effect of knowing that this is Holly Valance, I think it's probably something to do with the fact that it's a one-hit wonder for her, and we tend to remember who sings one-hit wonder songs. Everyone will always remember that Gangnam Style was by Psy, and most people of our generation at least know that Cha-Cha Slide is by DJ Casper. But would we have known necessarily

that The Hindu Times was an Oasis song? Maybe not. So maybe it's something to do with that. Yeah, so this song, I like the gimmick with the never actually saying kiss kiss in the chorus, with the doing the little... I was about to do the smooch sound then,

and I'm not going to lower myself to it. But yeah, I do like that little gimmick about it and I do think that it's a fun song but I wouldn't really go much further than that. The thing that really strikes me about Holly Valance is how similar her, not just

her voice but her actual career trajectory at the start is to Kylie Minogue where her voice sounds so similar to kylie at times but in a way that like the thing is kylie's voice often sounds a little bit weak but it's actually because she's very good at restraining her voice and she can belt it when she needs to whereas holly valance's voice here just sounds weak it just kind of sounds a bit thin like she's not got really much power behind that voice which is fine because this song doesn't demand it.

And she's able to just kind of, let's be honest, kind of rely on the sex factor for this song. You know, that was kind of one of the main reasons that this took off. And, you know, that's fine. Good luck to her on that. But I do think as a pop star, I don't think it was ever really going to last for her. I don't think she really had what it took, to be honest. Although it's perhaps unfair to say that because we saw so little of her um but yeah I I really just

have so little to say about this and I don't know why the same as you both because it's a perfectly decent song but it doesn't really linger for me I'd really sort of forgotten it existed and then when I heard it was like oh my gosh it's Kiss. How did I ever forget this? But even at the time, it sort of seemed like we all skirted over it and moved on to other things very quickly. It didn't really sort of... I actually don't think it really had a cultural impact. I think for some reason, like you say, Rob, we all remember this and we all remember Holly Valance,

mainly because she's done a fairly good job of keeping herself in the spotlight with When She Did Strictly and stuff as well. But I don't think it really has any cultural impact. I think it's a decent, fun R&B song, but it was never... I don't think she's ever really going to be the next big thing. And I just think it's just okay, to be fair.

Got nothing against you, Holly, and I'm glad you had a number one single, but, yeah, I just haven't got much to say about you i'm afraid yeah but thanks anyway yeah i'm sort of trying to work out why it all went so wrong so quickly well not so wrong so quickly but you know like because she had a good career after this you know um but why her music career didn't quite go the way that you expect. From this, you break out with your first number one single. It's number one in Australia, number one in the UK. It's hitting the top 20 all over Europe.

Her second single, Down Boy, got to number two. Her third single, Naughty Girl, got to number 16. And then the lead single from her next album a year later got to number eight, and then that's it. Her first album got to number nine in the UK, second album got to number 60. So there's a drop-off there in the middle, and I was trying to work out why.

And so, Holly Valance, the first album, is called Footprints. Now, I have a big thing about aesthetics in pop matching up. Now, the album cover for Footprints by Holly Valance. Now, if an album's called Footprints, you don't expect songs with attitudes like kiss kiss and down boy and naughty girl and other ones such as cocktails and parties whoop uh or a hush now tuck your shirt in connect like all this innuendo and all this implication about sex and parties and stuff like that and the album's called footprints like that doesn't vibe in my head at all and i'm looking at the album cover and it's all browns and beiges and it's all it's kind of sepia tinted and it's got gray text with a blackout line in bubble font and and it will actually always block font it's not even bubble font and like

the outfit that she's wearing on the front is like she's wearing actually always block font it's not even bubble font and like the outfit that she's wearing on the front is like she's wearing it what looks like it's just a black bra with really really high cut denim shorts and then like a varsity jacket over the top of it and her hair's a bit windswept and it's just nothing about this fits or works like you when i don't know what it is but the way album covers look the colors especially greatly influence how I feel about the overall aesthetics because you know unless you've got synesthesia or something like that music doesn't create images it's only a sound how does a sound how does a sound have aesthetics associated with it and a lot of that is often helped by the single artwork you know that sort of thing and if you look at the cover for her second album

state of mind that much more suits what she was going for with this first album where it's a picture where it's a very seductive shot of her face it's got pink bubble font pink and white and she's pulling on her bottom lip with her thumb as if she's kind of studying how to hit on you from a distance or you know she's happy that you're flirting with her that's it it's flirtatious and it's whereas the first album is like it's just a mid shot from a distance and the album title and nothing matches for me in any way i don't know whether this is the reason behind it but on the legal issues section of her wikipedia page we all love it when a celebrity's got legal issues as a subheading on their wiki page in 2003 she fired her manager scott michelson by telephone 15 months before his contract was due to expire.

Biscayne Partners, who I presume are the company who Scott Michelson worked for, they sued Valance Corp, which is a whole company she apparently had, won the case and was awarded damages. During the trial, Valance's mother claimed Michelson had been negligent as a manager and that Valencia's mother had taken over as manager. A former Neighbours co-star also gave evidence. She was feeling bad and stressed out because she was leaving Scott. Denied that she had said to the solicitors for her record company would get her out of the contract and would be faxing him the paperwork

apparently Valance denied that she ever said this even though she had signed an affidavit stating she had no recollection of the conversation so £47,000 was given sorry, £350,000 was paid to this scott michelson guy um of this amount 47 000 was from shares miss valance and mr michelson had bought together on the london stock exchange but i do get the feeling that she was having management troubles

because the whole holly valance package as a pop star doesn't seem to fit like what i was talking about with can't get you out of my head the perfect synergy between music video and song and artist and image and it all fits it all there's such a beautiful flow to the album cover the sound of that record the sound of kylie the the repackaging of Kylie as a full-on sex icon in the early 2000s, whereas with Holly Valance, it just felt a bit like, you know, the first cover, I mean, I mean, they clearly switched this up with Britney and got it dead right, but it feels a little bit like Britney's first album cover, where it's like, you have songs in it like, Hit Me Baby One More Time, and then the album covers just like

an adorable family photo where she's like in a cute outfit and just sort of looking like oh it's me you know like good little christian girl kind of thing when that all the content is like really loud and aggressive pop music but they you know they quickly sort that out um with the um oops i did it again uh sort of thing where it's like it's a different image and a different britney and then again where they go self-titled in 2001 and it's like i'm a rebel and you know that sort of thing and it just feels like there was something miscommunicated between the start and the end of holly valance's thing. But anyway, I don't know if anybody has anything more to add. No, I think that's a really good point. It's almost like she got caught in between two

kind of movements in music. It's like, it's as if Can't Get You Out My Head came along and it's like, oh bloody hell, we've got all of this stuff ready we've got the album title and we we now can't go in this direction like they were aiming for a sort of leanne rhymes or something it's as if that one song just kind of made everything like swerving this right we've got to go in this sexpot direction this is what you are now you've just got to make do with what we're giving you but it yeah it's kind of screwed her over in the end poor planning that's what it is poor planning very much so fail to plan and your plan will fail uh andy do you have anything more to add about kiss kiss by holly valance i really don't i don't think there's anything more I could possibly say

like you were pushing me at 2-3 minutes to be honest yeah but thanks, yeah, thanks for everything Holly, we may not see you again but you'll live on forever and let's one day hope that you'll be a question on Popmaster so that we can test Rob's theory

yeah yeah okay so as always at this point in the episode we come to deciding on Popmaster so that we can test Rob's theory. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so as always at this point in the episode, we come to deciding whether a song that we've covered belongs in the pie hole or the vault. So, The Hindu Times by Oasis. Is that going down or up for anybody? Nah.

No? Nah. No, me neither. Freak Like Me by Sugar Babes straight in the vault no question yep vault for me yes I'm also giving it a bit of a slam in there as well

and Kiss Kiss by Holly Valance nah it's fine I think yeah it's alright five years from now, I may be out somewhere, and it may come on in a restaurant,

and I'll go, ooh! And then after, like, the first chorus, and we've all had our joke about it, we'll just be like, right, what were we talking about? And you'll get up, and all the people in the bar will move to the side, because you've got this song and dance number to do. That's it for this week's episode thank you very much for

listening uh when we come back we'll be covering the period between the 12th of may to the 1st of june 2002 all of a sudden time has just started to stand still uh we need a longer number one out there guys could we i mean it's a bit late now. 21 years too late. But if we could just, you know, if we could try and get a longer number one, that would be great. So we will see you next time.

Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Bye-bye. This one's for you, Raoul. Thanks, Raoul. And for you, my lovely. One, two, one, two, three, four. शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा शामा सोना सोना सोनी तेरी पायल छन छन छन ऐसे छन के कर दे सबको खायल कह रहा आखों का काजल इश्क में जीवा शावा माहिया से शावा शावा माहिया से शावा शावा

माहिया से शावा शावा रूप है मेरा सोना सोनी मेरी पायल रूप है मेरा सोना सोना सोनी मेरी पायल रूप मेरा सोना सोना सोनी मेरी पायल चंचना चंच ऐसे चंचे कर दे सबको घायल है कह रहा आखों का काजल

इश्क में जीना मरना हेबरी बारी से शावा शावा माधिया से शावा शावा माधिया से शावा शावा माधिया से शावा शावा Everybody!