Hits 21 - 2002 (4): Ronan Keating, Liberty X, Eminem

Episode Date: February 12, 2023

Hello again, everyone, and welcome back to Hits 21, the show that's taking a look back at every UK #1 hit single of the 21st century - from January 2000, right through to the present day. Twitter: @Hits21UK Email: [e-mail]

🎵 Alright there everyone and welcome back to Hits 21 Alright there everyone and welcome back to Hits 21 Where me, Rob Me, Andy And me, Lizzy Look back at every single UK number one of the 21st century From January 2000 right through to the present day If you want to get in touch with us you can find us over on Twitter

We are at Hits21UK To the present day. If you want to get in touch with us. You can find us over on Twitter. We are at Hits21UK. That is at Hits21UK. And you can email us too. Just send it on over to. Hits21podcast.gmail.com Thank you so much. For joining us again. Just like our previous episodes.

We'll be looking back at some number one singles. From the year 2002. This time we'll be looking back at some number one singles from the year 2002. This time we'll be looking at the period between the 12th of May to the 1st of June, so it's another very, very short period. Just 20 days, that must be the shortest ever. Yeah, I think last week pushes it really close So, ah well, like I said last time That's what we get for going down to three songs an episode That's true

The winner of the poll last week was I think it was the favourite on this show too In fact, it definitely was It was Freak Like Me, Sugar Babes So, well done to Sugar Babes Deservedly so Yeah, I think so too for that particular uh victory there so on to this week's episode as always we are going to be giving you some

headlines from around the time that these songs were number one in the united states the recovery effort at ground zero the former site of the World Trade Center, comes to a close. To mark the occasion, the last steel beam is removed from the site and carried away during a ceremony honoring the construction workers who built the towers in the 1970s, while pipe and drum musical performances and helicopter flyovers were also featured as part of proceedings. performances and helicopter flyovers were also featured as part of proceedings. In football, the 2002 FIFA World Cup in Japan and South Korea begins. The first game of the tournament sees newcomers Senegal beat reigning champions France 1-0. Senegal would go on to reach the quarter-finals, while France would exit the tournament in the group stages, winning no games.

Yeah, that was my first big world cup that that was the one where we all had to go to school at half seven to watch england play yeah i have a specific memory about that which was that there were two occasions during the england brazil match where the crowd got just a little bit too rowdy for the teachers and so they turned off the tv on two occasions to calm us down and And those two occasions, we missed both Brazil goals. Oh my God. So yeah, it became a bit of a curse. We were like, don't turn off the TV again.

Meanwhile, the BBC reports that NASA space probe Mars Odyssey has found signs of huge ice deposits on Mars. Odyssey also discovered large amounts of hydrogen, indicating that ice also lay within a metre of the planet's surface. To this day, Mars Odyssey is still out there and has enough fuel to last until 2025, so clock's ticking, boys. Yeah, very close to the end.

Yeah, yeah. If any listeners can tell, it was a bit of a struggle to find news for this short period, which was why we're talking about things on Mars as opposed to planet Earth In cinemas Star Wars Episode 2 Attack of the Clones begins a four

week reign at the top of the UK box office. The sequel to The Phantom Menace grossed a total of £21.9 million during its four weeks at the top Its worldwide total gross was $654 million, which would be just over

a billion dollars in today's money, and my God, it is the worst Star Wars film by a long, long chalk. Like, I'm generally a defender of, especially of Revenge of the Sith

and to an extent the Phantom Menace but Attack of the Clones is god I remember me and you Andy when we watched it together with my respective partners about 5 years ago and the atmosphere in the room when that film finished was just like none of us really knew how to talk to each other

it was just and as good a time as any to plug the podcast where we did that. We did that as part of a podcast called Rebel Chums where we re-watched all the Star Wars films.

So check that out. Thanks for that segue. Anyway, yeah. Meanwhile, Latvia's Marie N wins the 2002 Eurovision Song Contest with her single I Wanna. The song achieved 176 points and beat Malta to the

title and reached number 15 in the Belgium pop charts. It did not chart in the UK, unfortunately. And on MTV, reality series The Osbournes is broadcast in the UK for the first time. Just one more thing on that Eurovision. I do remember who our

entry was that year for 2002 with Pop Idol having just finished it was Pop Idol alumnus Jessica Garlick with Come Back who entered for us that year and did very well, she came about 4th or 5th I believe, yeah. A respectable 3rd. Oh that's very, very, more

than respectable, wow. Yeah And the Broadcasting Standards Commission rules that scenes showing domestic abuse in episodes of EastEnders that aired over Christmas 2001 were inappropriate for a pre-Watershed audience. The scenes in which Trevor Morgan attacked his wife, Little Mo, went too far when families would have been watching the programme. Well, that would have gone out about seven o'clock, right? Well, that would have gone out about 7 o'clock, right? Yeah, we covered this in the Christmas episode that it was sort of the centrepiece of Christmas Day on BBC One and that, in retrospect, is a bold choice.

But they've done far worse since. They've shown people being burnt to death and they had the baby swap thing happen at Christmas about 10 years ago. They've done worse than that. Not to say that it's not awful, the scenes with Little Mo and Trevor, but it was at least true to life, worthwhile, whereas it's just needless shock value these days with EastEnders. So, Andy, album charts, how are they doing?

Well, as again, it's a very, very short period that we're covering covering this week there's not a huge amount to recap on with the albums chart um as you remember from last week doves were at the top for two weeks with the last broadcast and are toppled by none other than moby with his album 18 which uh went one times platinum and stayed at the top for one week. It was toppled by none other than Mr. Ronan Keating with his album Destination which went two times platinum but stayed at the top for just one week. And then right at the end of the period

that we're covering this week a little old rapper from the US of A called Eminem gets their latest number one album with the Eminem Show, which would stay at the top for a grand total of five weeks on the run and would go six times platinum and would be within the top five highest selling albums of 2002 in the UK. So, yeah, it is genuinely the Eminem show this week,

quite literally. Yeah, big year for Eminem. Lizzy, US charts, how are they faring? Yeah, well, no new singles to discuss this week, as Foolish by Ashanti continues its 10-week reign at number one. We do have a couple of new albums around this time, though. First up this week is Kenny Chesney and his album, wait for this, No Shirt, No Shoes, No Problems.

What? Which got to number one for one week, went four times platinum in the US and finished at number 32 on the year-end list. But as far as I can tell, didn't chart over here at all. What an advert that is for a trusty pair of jeans. I know. God.

And after that, the rap duo Big Timers got to number one with their album Hood Rich, which stayed at number one for one week and finished at number 60 on the year end list. That was followed by One Week at Number 1 for Just Listen by Music Soulchild, which went platinum in the US and finished at number 67 on their year-end list, but only charted as high as number 97 in the UK. And finally this week, P. Diddy scored his second Billboard number one album

with We Invented the Remix, a compilation of remixes with various featured artists which went platinum in the us and finished at number 48 on their year-end list that also stayed at number one for one week before being dethroned by who else eminem but more on that next time yeah other than p diddy and eminem i have to kind of accuse you of making all of those up lizzie because i just never heard of any of them I mean, I'd never heard of Big Timers but I have heard of one of the members it's actually Birdman

who worked with Lil Wayne a lot Oh, right. Oh, yeah, okay That's a fun pop fact Yeah, there you go Okay then, on to the number one singles for this week and opening up this week's show is this

sometimes late at night i lie awake and watch her sleeping she's lost in peaceful dreams so i I turn out the light, lay there in the dark. And the thought crosses my mind, if I never wake in the morning. Would she ever doubt The way I feel about her in my heart If tomorrow never comes Will she know how much I love her? Did I try in every way

To show her every day That she's my only woman? Oh, oh, oh And if my time on earth were full She must face this world without me Okay, this is If Tomorrow Never Comes by Ronan Keating. Released as the lead single from his second studio album entitled Destination, If Tomorrow Never Comes is Ronan Keating's fifth single overall to be released in the UK. It's his third single to reach number one,

after When You Say Nothing At All and Life Is A Rollercoaster both reached the summit in 1999 and 2000 respectively. It is his last single to reach number one in the UK. The song is a cover of the 1989 Garth Brooks single which didn't chart in this country. If Tomorrow Never Comes went straight in at number one as a brand new entry knocking holly valance off the top spot it stayed at number one for one week in its first and only week atop the charts it sold 148 000 copies and beat competition from dj by h and claire which got to number three follow the leader by nigel and mar, which got to number five. And Someone Like You by Russell Watson and Faye Toza, which got to number ten. What the hell?

Yeah. When it was knocked off the top of the charts, If Tomorrow Never Comes fell one place to number two. And by the time it was done on the charts, it had been inside the top 100 for 20 weeks. The song is officially certified platinum in the UK having sold over 600,000 copies. Andy, I will let you jump in on this. I mean, I've spent

probably the last couple of weeks hoping that If Tomorrow Never Comes would indeed never come. But if If Tomorrow Never Comes had never come, you wouldn't know how much I love it which is not at all, unfortunately It's not just my least favourite song of the week

nor is it my least favourite song of 2002 It's probably my least favourite song we've ever covered on the podcast Oh wow, wow, okay I think as I've said this covered on the podcast oh wow um okay i think as i think as i've said this recently on the podcast but it really is like the ultimate kind of maxim i would follow is that it's absolutely fine well ish for songs to be bad on this show you know i feel like the likes of five doing we will rock you you know they've taken a punt at least and I can respect that. They've tried to do something and it's awful but they tried. This song to me is the representation of

not really trying. It's just so empty and dull and, you know, I feel like maybe I've gone a little bit overly personal with Ronan Keating in previous weeks and I've got nothing against the guy personally but he and I are just on different wavelengths in terms of what makes a successful pop song because it really just has it seems to be that mindset of just playing it safe in every possible way you know i i listened to this a few times i really did try and give it a go and try and elevate it above that just absolute bottom marks that i was like expecting to give this but I just couldn't find anything I really couldn't it's almost sort of bottom marks for me by default because at no point is is Ronan ever vocally challenged by this song in any way at no point does it really develop

beyond the standard verse chorus structure there's not really much of a bridge to be honest, it never really develops instrumentally and the substance of the song has been done many many other times in better ways by very recently by different artists who've done it more effectively. In terms of the actual tone of it of, oh well if I died tomorrow would you remember me? I'm almost accidentally saying the lyrics to hero by enrique iglesias when i say that like if i died would you remember me you know it just sounds like exactly like something you would get from hero by enrique and it just seems like you know if if cliff richard was the british inferior elvis then ronan keating is very much

being the british in reggae here. It just, I really have tried to find something positive to say about this, but I just don't. I think it's just empathy of everything. It could benefit from a key change, I have to say. It could benefit from some of those cheesy strings that Westlife throw all over it. It could benefit from, you know, a big gospel choir over it. Like, that would be cheesy and it would be silly and mawkish but it would be something at least it wouldn't be nothing and this

is nothing um and so i just i just really have nothing that i got from this um and so it's not like pure reviling hatred that i have for this song. It's just that this song doesn't make me feel anything at all. It's a waste of three minutes as far as I'm concerned. So yeah, unfortunately, not a favourite of mine. But yeah, before I hand over to you two though, I really have to tell a story about this song, which happened fairly recently. Yes!

It happened fairly recently and it might not be that funny, but in context, it was so funny, and I could barely contain my laughter. So basically, we've probably mentioned before, Rob and I are in a karaoke league locally, where different teams sing karaoke basically against each other, and a judge decides the winning team. It's really fun. You should do it. But this particular week, we were running way over time because like

it'd been a week where everyone had done like languid long ballads like coincidentally so it was getting on for midnight and everybody was so tired this is a school night everybody just desperately wanted to go home we had beds to go to and then the judge stood up and we were like at last here's our result and she got to the front of the room and said okay it's the moment you've all been waiting for i'm gonna do a song and the result had to wait and the song that she did was the very same if tomorrow never comes which not only is you know the most boring song choice you could pick for that time of night but also lyrically was so ironic.

And I don't think she realized the humor of minutes to midnight when people desperately want to go to bed singing the words, if tomorrow never comes. And it was just the most surreal sitcom style moment that happened. And I've always associated it with that ever since. But yeah, that's kind of the most memorable thing that's ever happened with that song as far as i'm concerned it's just i i do have to make a sort of more serious point really that you know i've taken the piss out of this song quite a lot but this is the the third is it the third number one that ronan king's had because he had one in the 90s as well he had plenty

with boyzone as well and i just think there is a broader point here about how easy it is for established stars to do this. You know, this really is just pop music by numbers. And again, I don't mean that as a personal thing towards Ronan Keating, but I think it's perhaps taken for granted of how easy it is to get a number one when you just do the same old, same old, and you've got a star name

behind you um you know a classic example a few years ago in podcast terms as well with westlife and mariah carey with against all odds that was just you know i had all the same criticisms of that really that it was just star power a bland song but what the hell it gets number one because of that and i just think that is a real crying shame a real crying shame you know we didn't really miss out on any big fun number ones from h and claire or whatever this in this particular week but i just think you know if you've got that built-in fan base do something for them you know give us something a bit more exciting than this life is a roller coaster was actually more interesting than this if life was a roller coaster in that song then this song is a roller coaster was actually more interesting than this if life was

a roller coaster in that song then this song is just a lazy river um and that's all i have to say sorry ronan quick uh shout out to an osman song that you just made me think of there down by the lazy river um but yeah lizzy lizzy are you do you feel any better towards uh if tomorrow never comes or are you sort of where andy is right now yeah i'm pretty much where you are andy i think you've summarized that really well um because like admittedly from what little of it i've heard i can't say that i'm a huge fan of country music in general but i can only assume that country music is as successful as it is because the best country music finds that perfect middle ground between sincerity and schmaltz yeah like the garth brooks original isn't a song i can see myself revisiting very often but

brooks has a rich warm voice which suits this style of music much better. As a result, his delivery hits that right balance between sincere and schmaltzy, or between natural and melodramatic, much like, I don't know, a lot of the best Dolly Parton performances do. Absolutely, yeah.

And, like, as for Ronan, he just can't pull that off, because try as he might to convince us otherwise, this isn't his domain and it never has been and it never will be. It strikes me less as a love letter to country music and more as a shallow retread of his cover of When You Say Nothing At All, which also got to number one. And is just as pointless a cover as this one is.

In both cases, I find Ronan's lack of personality and authenticity make otherwise warm, genuine songs feel cold and distant and, worst of all, corporate. I think it's pretty horrible, and I've no desire to ever listen to this ever again and I'm so glad this is the last time that we encounter him on this show I mean that's a really really great point as well

about his lack of authenticity here in terms of lack of substance and lack of energy and lack of oomph to that voice you know one thing that I always, always think about that you mentioned last time we discussed Rona Keating in Life is a Rollercoaster, which is that that song shared a songwriter with You Only Get What You Give by the New Radicals.

And I always think about that because I'm like, actually, I can kind of hear the similarity in those songs. I can kind of hear that the bones of those songs are sort of similar. And then you realise, actually, could these songs be better if they had a different artist behind them? If they had someone who could give a bit of pizzazz? Both Life is a Rollercoaster

and If Tomorrow Never Comes, could they be actually much, much better? And I think the answer is definitely yes. But we'll never know, and I don't really wish to find out, if I'm honest. Like I say, I don't love the original this, but it's so much better.

Yeah, so I understand why you both really seem to dislike this. I just sort of think it's okay. I'm definitely on the fence leaning towards not being that much of a fan because it's drippy and it's syrupy and not in a way that can ever feel genuine just because of the way that

it's been constructed and it's been very specifically chosen for Ronan to perform. Plus I don't think a song like this really requires the size that they shoot for, like all the strings and all the dramatic drums. They're totally unnecessary. I think you can tell that so many acts right now who walk that line between boy band pop and adult contemporary music like Ronan and Blue and Gareth Gates,

they're going for that Westlife sound because they know the Westlife sound is like a guaranteed number one at the moment and I'm not sure that Westlife would have done this song justice if they tackled it either because I think what's missing from this version and arguably um the the original by garth brooks is that this this song is sung from the perspective of someone who's up at night trying not to make any noise thinking about a lot of very complicated and existential things that you'll never know the answer to hence the if in the title um and i'm not sure it calls for something this big, like even Garth Brooks' version, like it comes pre-packaged with the fact that it was written

in the late 80s, which means that by default everything has to be bigger than it needs to be. And the opening to this song makes me think about a husband, like, set up late at night, looking at his wife sleeping, and then he decides to like, creep off to the spare bedroom or the back room downstairs, just to quietly put this song together and play the guitar and try not to make too much noise, but it's just like, you know how, like, I think it's like Paul McCartney who says like, songs come to him in dreams, and he wakes up and he just has to start writing this is kind of how it feels and that's how art works you know you watch a lot of documentaries about you know how albums or songs were put together and you know you often like hear people get asked like oh so how did you write that

and if any any artist ever says anything other than oh it, it just came to me. I don't really know why, but I had to put it down. They're bullshitting you. There's no mathematical process to coming up with ideas. They just pop into your head. It's like they float by you or they go past you like cars on a road and you just have to pick out the ones that stick. And the immediacy of that image really really early on in the song is really evocative i think and convincing but by the middle part of both

versions of the song and especially the ronin version that image is just gone it is completely gone because it just the second verse just repeats itself the the thoughts don't go anywhere there are no threads to the thoughts the lyrics just kind of repeat i mean there's only two verses and two choruses in this because they're really elongated and stretched out you know it reaches three and a half minutes but there's no middle eight or a final chorus or anything like that it's just really compact um and so when you get the the big strings and stuff like that, it's just, oh, well, there was a lovely image. And now I can't imagine the husband writing at night,

you know, slaving away on a guitar at three o'clock in the morning because something's come to him and he has to put it down and he's worried. Like it just goes away. I think the Garth Brooks version brings it through a little bit stronger but again towards the end of the song i'm just thinking a bit like okay like i enjoyed the beginning of this but where is it um but with that being said um i think this is the kind of environment that suits ronan best like his voice especially things like life is a roller coaster and loving each day where he goes for the kind of tone that i don't know miko was going for in the mid-2000s or the kind of optimistic motivational poster songs that jess glenn does every time she steps in front of a microphone

i don't think he suits the the i don't think he suits those kind of up tempo isn't life great kind of thing it turns out i do you know looking back I prefer his slower stuff things like when you say nothing at all or this to an extent or his cover of um I hope you dance like only up to a point I should say because like we're not far off his management just throwing covers at him to see what sticks I had a look at this and between 2002 and 2006 he covers when he covers um uh if tomorrow never comes we've got tonight she believes in me i hope you dance father and son baby can i hold you and then finally iris by googly dolls so like that's one two three four five six seven eight covers in four years but the thing is I actually think he has a lovely voice,

but it's just a shame that like his team can never really find somewhere that he fits, you know, like properly fits and like think like, yes, unmistakably Ronan, like that sort of thing. Maybe it's because he's not that interesting after all. Like, you know, he's melodic and tuneful and there's a nice kind of baritone to his you know he has a nice baritone quality to it but where like i'm just thinking of another baritone singer from around the time um damon albarn damon albarn has a gorgeous baritone that really aches and has a lot of yearning and kind of tired desperation whereas like with Ronan Keating everything's just kind of played straight like he's too interested

in wanting to be seen as a serious artist to do anything genuinely properly fun and out there to love by mums and young kids to ever do anything truly daring and he's caught between two markets and maybe we'll never know well we will never know what could have been because like not long after this he was doing albums called like songs for my mum or songs for my mother or something and it was just more covers um but i think this was just about the most effective thing they can do where they get a song from the 80s that nobody in the uk really knows so that they can erase the original from UK history, which has basically happened, sounds just country enough for mums and just sensitive enough for young girls,

like, he's 25 and hot, but he's also 40 inside, and, like, the way that they're gonna do, like, the way they're gonna get him to do a number one single is to get him to cover a song that was written by a man who also turned 40 before he turned 30 and i think it translates well enough just not enough for me to ever stop being aware of exactly what this is i think that's what it comes back to which is just you can feel just how focus grouped and committee created this is and i can't quite escape it even like the music video of just Justin repeatedly falling in front of that car over and over and over again another car crash music video

yeah where did we get that from? exactly like the super emotional like really melodramatic like oh god wouldn't it be awful if Ronan Keating died and yes it would because any man who dies at the age of 25

has gone far too young. But, oh God, it's just like, it's fine. It's just, yeah. Just a few points there, Rob. I mean, very interesting to get a different take on it there. And you've put up a good sort of semi-defense of it there. I think it's interesting what you say about how, you know, the strings maybe are too much for the song,

because for me, it's like, it's go one way or the other. That's the problem that I have with this. If you use the country comparison again, if you look at I Will Always Love You, Dolly Parton, right? You've got the Dolly Parton original. I think it's the original. Anyway, you've got the Dolly Parton version. You've got the Whitney Houston cover, which both absolutely are completely opposite ends

of the spectrum. You know, the Dolly version, it's just, it's mostly just hair and a country band. It never really goes absolutely crazy. It's just a simple, lovely country ballad. And then you've got Whitney, who's obviously all the bells and whistles and the key changes and the high notes, and both of them very successful in their genre both of them very big sellers both of them beloved by their fan bases because they're so different there are other extremes in terms of what people want and this is just like right bang in the sort of everyman middle and that is the death of it that's that's the worst place you can be you know i i find myself thinking well let's have more strings because then at least it'll be something you know i i actually kind of disagree with what you said about westlife i think

for what it's worth westlife actually would do a better job with this because they they at least know how to do that earnest over-the-top crooning that ronan is trying to do but just doesn't really do i wonder if it's to do with the voice to to be honest, whether it's to do with Ronan's voice, because I do find it oddly sort of clipped, you know, just sort of like, almost like he's singing through a ventriloquist dummy or something, like, or, you know, it's just a strange, strange singing voice

where not really much texture seems to come out of it. And I wonder how much of that has to do with it. But I think, yeah, go one way or the other, other you know have it be a really simple effective ballad or have it be you know big blah x factor winners single bigness don't just sit in this middle ground because that's that's the worst place to be yeah this kind of middle ground just seems like cowardice to me yeah like you're big enough and you're popular enough that you can push the boat out in whichever direction you want to go but just going

this straight down the middle it's kind of pathetic and I don't know, we deserve better than that. But then it got him a number one. I made this point about life as a rollercoaster and this is the important thing to remember. This stuff sells. It gets number one so why wouldn't he do it?

But that's the most depressing thing of all, isn't it? Yeah. Well, he won't be back to trouble us anymore. Unless he fancies getting a number one in the future. Oh, he tried. 2023. He did a duet with Ladbaby, don't you know? No.

Yes, he did. Well, I'm going to have to go and look that up. But in the meantime, we'll run away from Ronan Keating and move on to something a bit more exciting, I think. Next up on our show is this. Oh, yeah. Sexy, everything about you's so sexy. You don't even know what you got. You're really hitting my spot.

Oh, yeah. And you're so innocent. Please don't say this wrong, because it's a compliment. I just want to get with your flow. You've got to learn to let go. Oh, baby, won't you? Work it a little, get hot just a little Let me in the middle, let go just a little bit more Just a little bit

Give me just a little bit more Just a little, just a little Let me Okay, this is Just a Little by Liberty X. Released as the third single from the group's debut studio album entitled Thinking It Over, Just a Little is also Liberty X's third single to be released in the UK overall, and their first to reach number one. It is also their last. Just a Little went straight in at

number one as a brand new entry knocking ronan keating off the top of the charts it stayed at number one for one week in its first and only week atop the charts it sold 153 000 copies and beat competition from escape by enrique iglesias which re-entered the chart and got to number 3, What's Love by Fat Joe and Ashanti, which got to number 4, Don't Let Me Get Me by Pink, which got to number 6, and In My Eyes by Milk Incorporated, which got to number 9. When it was knocked off the top of the charts, Just a Little fell one place to number 2, and by the time it was done on the chart it had been inside the top 100 for 18 weeks.

Just a Little achieved platinum status in the UK in 2019 so it took a while but it got there. Lizzy, Just a Little how are we? You can say a little or a lot about it. Go ahead. Yeah, well Liz is just a little more like it.

But yeah, this is just a little more like it. But yeah, this is a song I remember vividly from the time, probably, well, mainly because of the video. You know where Jessica Taylor and Kelly Young are wearing leather catsuits and taking part in some sort of diamond dive? That's a great video. It's an A-plus pop video. Brilliant video. Yeah, and i'm actually

quite surprised to hear this is their last number one because i do recall them suddenly being huge around this time just as hearsay had basically vanished and it's probably for the best that they held this one back while the hearsay wave died down because to me it's the one that differentiates them the most from the squeaky clean hearsay like they pull off the whole sex appeal angle really confidently which I'd say is rare for most of the UK talent show acts that we'll be encountering on this podcast and the production on this is really nicely done too which made it all the more surprising that the producer, or producers, I don't know, the producer of this song have barely any credits on Discogs. It was produced by The Big Pockets, all one word, who I've been unable to find a real name for and whose only

other production credits other than this song are for a Blue B-side in 2003 and a dane bowers album track in 2021 in mighty company now yeah i mean i fear we might have another rick rock on our hands unless someone knows knows otherwise maybe one of you listeners out there can give us the the lowdown on uh what were they called again the big pockets yeah um but yeah i think it's really well done i think it's one of the better like song pop songs to have come out of a talent show um obviously not of this year because there's one we'll come to later which is much better i think but i think this is a really solid number one. It's probably my favourite this week, personally.

I think most people will disagree, but that's fine. But yeah, I've got very good memories of this song and it holds up really well. Yeah, first of all, the big pockets just instantly makes me think of Alan's big pocket from Knowing Me, Knowing You. That will be the only thing in my head there. Yeah, I love this. I really love this.

Definitely my favourite of the week. Yeah, absolutely love this. I think the first thing I want to say about this is that Liberty X are probably the first example of that odd phenomenon of talent show runners-up usually doing better than the winner. I mean, Will and Gareth was kind of a draw. Some might argue that in the immediate sense,

Gareth Gates did slightly better in the kind of zeitgeist, but overall, Will Young, you know, has been very, very successful. This is sort of the first example where the runners-up really do outshine the legacy of the winners themselves. I don't know why that is. I think maybe it's something to do with how it's easier to shake off that talent show pressure, first of all,

and also that association of being uncool because you won Pop Idol or Popstars or The X Factor or whatever. I think the likes of JLS or Lee Mayer's One Direction, you can just about sort of forget sometimes that they are X Factor acts, whereas you couldn't forget that with, say, Shane Ward or Leona Lewis or Alexandra Burke. So I think maybe that's what it is, but this is the first example of that, really.

And at the time, you know, I really liked Liberty X, and I was so much more energized by them than I was by Hearsay. Because even at the time with Hearsay, you know, even though I was a kid, I did get this sense from them that they were a bit sort of ster sterile i mean i wouldn't have used those words obviously but it would you know that they're a bit sort of hmm safe you know fun for the family whereas liberty x seemed kind of dangerous and sort of you know exciting in a way that hearsay absolutely weren't you know they were the sort of counter programming to hearsay as it were and very very successfully because this song absolutely slaps i love this song i mean the thing that they do really really well is just absolutely overload it with hooks

they start straight in with that that sexy thing you know the way i just said the word sexy i didn't know whether to sing it or say it, so I just went like, sexy. Didn't mean to do that. I think you played it very well. It always makes me think of that Peter Kay sequence with the DJ. What am I? Sexy. Oh, Andy.

Oh, Andy, I've got that in my notes. I've got that in my notes as well. What am I him? You're really hitting my spot. Yeah. But that's like a really, really good verse. And then they sort of pass the mic around between the five of them, each with their own kind of pretty catchy little bit of that verse

and bridge and chorus as well. And then it gets into that sort of call and response, but mainly just a really well kind of written chorus with the work it a little bit, huh? And it's one of those ones that even if you don't know the words, you can just go, just a little bit. You know, one of those songs that you can get away with because it's in your head and you don't need to actually know how it goes.

That is the key to a really, really catchy song. I really think the production is fantastic on this as well that there are so many layers behind it like it's it's quite a common theme at this time i think we'd all agree to to make your song sound quite sexy in in whatever way that you can you know we've had love don't cost a thing and well more than a woman and we've had last week as well with Holly Valance, obviously, that, you know, doing the sort of sexy R&B side to your song is very, very popular at this time.

And they do it with all sorts of levels of percussion and little synthy bits and just kind of randomness in the background that makes it feel exciting and makes it feel energetic and makes it feel like it's going to creep up on you slightly but anchored by a really kind of strong britney style on the beat rhythm that you know brings it to life it's a perfect combination and i also think they're all really good singers um i think they do what s club for example really failed to do by being so reliant on joe in that this song isn't really reliant on any one of them like you can't really pick out a lead singer from this they genuinely pass the mic around to a fairly equal extent i mean the boys get slightly lost in it possibly and i'd say

you know probably kelly gets the most to do but really they all kind of shine they all get um their little bit really um and they're just a really really well put together pop group I think they had so much potential and it's a shame that it kind of fell off relatively quickly for them I don't know if that's just a case of you know a really great song fell into their lap here and I don't think it is because their song before this Thinking It Over I used to quite like that at the time they did a good cover of Ain't Nobody. They had a song Holding On For You, which was a fairly decent ballad as well. Like, I really liked Liberty X,

but this is the real, you know, the real jewel of the crown for them. And I think everything just comes together. It's, like, fun and exciting in a way that can be sexy, but still fun for all the family. It's really, really well produced. They come across as a really likeable group. And yeah, it's great.

I really, really love this. And I was surprised by how much I love this when I listened to it because I was always quite fond of it. But because it's kind of a mainstay of family parties and things like that, it's not one I often actually sit down and listen to. But when I did, I was like,

God, this is really well put together. This is really good. You could give this song to the biggest pop stars and it would be worthy of them. So yeah, really love this. Really, really like it. Just going back to Liberty X and their singles after this.

I mean, they didn't kind of disappear they still had like top 10 hits i just wanted to um mention in particular being nobody which is their mash-up of ain't nobody and being boiled by one richard x who did um freak like me from the last episode and it's a shame you couldn't have showed up this week to do if Tomorrow Never Knows with Ronan and the Beatles oh god even the thought of Ronan's voice like turn off your mind relax and float downstream

no thanks as for me I'll get my negatives out of the way first because I do have a lot of positives about this the production for me is a bit of a mixed bag I think the arrangement that comes from the production is fantastic but the quality

of sound is where I think it's lacking I think it's far too trebly and loud and bright, those acoustic guitars at the beginning are like somebody twanging elastic bands next to my head like i feel like this should be a bit bassier they're just a bit too clear for me i feel like it needs more bass and more attitude like something a bit more human coming

up from underneath something driving it you know like a walking bass line or you know like in later years i feel like this would have sub bass just by default and that may have improved it ever so slightly um and i think um it maybe just doesn't hit my emotions uh as much as i thought like my memories of this are not that vivid um for years and as liberty x well, I always assumed that they were, I remember them and I don't really associate with them with pop stars or, you know, being like the losers to hearsay or anything like that. But,

but there is always a part of me that mixes Liberty X up with them. Do you remember Big Brothers? Oh yeah. Yeah. Who did New Flow and stuff like that. I always, I always, bro, taking over the show yeah yeah who did um new flow and stuff like that i always bro taking over the show whoa with this new flow i always assumed that was liberty x and then i looked it up and i was like oh no it's them and then i always assumed that liberty x did favorite things but that was also big brothers as well um so yeah and i was a little bit mixed up with there and also

there's a moment really early on where one of the female vocalists sorry I don't know her name where the way that she says compliment is so good that's maybe my favourite thing in the whole song so don't criticize it it's my favourite moment too

it's my favourite moment as well it sounds so gruff and so passionate but nothing like that ever comes back like i just i wish there was more there more of that more personality um like and i'm talking about i mean this song does have a lot of personality but i wish it just had that extra like you know something like that something sassy that would kind of take it over the edge i think that's maybe what it's lacking. It's lacking just a sprinkle of sass, where it has a decent degree of it,

but just not quite enough for me. But positive's got a lot of them. This is still, like you say, I think both of you have said, it's sexy. And like you say, it is still a massive, massive hit at wedding discos and family parties everywhere in the UK which has definitely got to count for something they have way more personality than hearsay um they're willing to try something a bit more exciting and it feels like they have the

freedom and the range to do that um I love the little like innuendos and ad-libs that keep things fresh in the verses and in the choruses, just to keep it going for as long as possible. And each of the vocalists bring something a bit different to each other without feeling inferior to anybody around them, which is a massive problem I think that Hearsay definitely had. I think the boys weren't as good or as memorable as the girls. Whereas here, I think Liberty X show that they have more staying power

and that's something they eventually prove. Even if this is their only number one, they stay in the top 10 for a while. Like, you know, they're around for like five years, I think, which is a good stay. I've got great memories of the, like you say, Andy, the Peter Kay routine, which is the, what have I got?

What have I hit? You know, it's just great. And I could talk about Peter Kay's love and taste and appreciation for pop music for hours, and we'll get more chances to do that as the song goes on. But I think what I do love about this track, beyond the compliment, is how this isn't a house track or a dance track

but it works in a really similar way in how it introduces lots of layers and sections and then in the second half of the track it has loads of fun with like taking those layers away adding them back in letting that chorus ride for a second time around, then dropping everything out but the voices, then building back up again, step by step. And it's like a DJ kind of like, you know, turning, you know, like, raising the volume and lowering the volume on certain tracks to kind of build up anticipation.

And it layers it in the same way that something like, I don't know, um, Another Chance or Toka's Miracle or something like that would and it gives it this just sort of extra little bit of of character i just i do feel like i'm being a little bit like i'm being my ears are being assaulted slightly by the sound quality of the song i think it's far it's just it's too crisp i sometimes i wish there was a bit of 70s dust sprinkled over it. Well, it's just a bit crackly.

Well, like this is where I think, you know, like the warmth of some 70s disco songs is what takes them over the edge. Or at least this actually this feels more late 70s, early 80s. This is what it feels like it's going for. But I do like this a lot. This kind of, the way I feel about it is similar to how I feel about something like when we did Madison Avenue or something like that. It has that kind of, it occupies a similar space. Don't absolutely love it, but it's only just missing out on the vault. It's really close, but it's only just missing out. Just a thing on like their whole identity and you whole identity in terms of them as a group.

Well, first of all, they weren't originally called Liberty X. They had to change it because there was another group called Liberty, so they had to change it from Liberty to Liberty X. And I do think that choice of the name Liberty probably is somewhat inspired by the fact that they are more free to do whatever they want as opposed to hearsay you know they they kind of can have a bit more spirit about them they can be more of a group for adults if they want to be and i think maybe that's you know coming back to the first thing i

said about runners-up of talent shows generally tending to do better i think they're just generally a little bit only a little bit but a little bit less stage managed and they have that freedom to do something a little bit different you know the i think that's maybe part of it and i think it's just i really like to get behind this sort of artist who's using their talent show platform to do something that's not just if tomorrow never comes as an example you know someone who's using their platform to actually make some really fun pop music um so yeah yeah full credit to them for that yeah um i agree and i'm really glad that they ended up with the name liberty x because just having them being called liberty i feel like it wouldn't have connected in quite the same way which is weird i often think this about names with pop groups like well little mix it's little

mix isn't it they were rhythmics while they were on the x factor like i wonder how if that would have lasted yeah yeah and just sort of like you know if they were just called liberty would they have been bound by that name because liberty has con it is it's about the connotations and like but liberty x like that x is like oh what does what does that mean like that means they could do anything i you know it puts things in your mind where it's like what does x mean like that's why the x factor ended up being named what it was because it's like what's the x factor don't know but it's something cool isn't it and it's something that we can't quite distinguish it's it's barely, but you can see it and you can sense it.

And I think, like I said in a previous episode, it allows Simon Cowell to, like, during an audition or a live show, when he spots an artist that he really wants to put into the charts, he can lean back in his chair, put his fingers on his chin, and then point at them and go, you've got the X Factor. And everybody can go, yes, that's a good thing. X Factor's a good thing isn't it it's almost like it doesn't exist

isn't it you could be fooled into thinking there's no such thing as an X Factor could be moulded any which way but yeah anyway last up this week is this this. Guess who's back, back again Shaney's back, tell a friend

Guess who's back, guess who's back Guess who's back, guess who's back Guess who's back, guess who's back Guess who's back I've created a monster Cause nobody wants to see Marshall no more They want shady, I'm chopped liver Well if you want shady, this is what I'll give ya A little bit of weed mixed with some hard liquor

Some vodka that'll jumpstart my heart quicker than a shock When I get shocked at the hospital by the doctor When I'm not cooperating When I'm rocking the table while he's operating You waited as long to stop debating Cause I'm back, I'm on the rag, inaugurating I know that you got a job, Miss Chaney But your husband's heart problem's complicating

So the FCC won't let me be Or let me be me, so let me see They try to shut me down on MTV But it feels so empty without me So come on and dip, come on your lips Fuck that, come on your lips And come on your tits and get ready Cause this shit's about to get heavy Outro Music This is Without Me by Eminem, released as the lead single from his third studio album entitled The Eminem Show. Without Me is Eminem's ninth single overall to be released in the UK. It is his third single to reach number one after The Real Slim Shady and Stan,

both reaching number one in the year 2000. It is not the last time we'll be discussing Marshall Mathers on this podcast. Without Me went straight in at number one as a brand new entry, knocking Liberty X off the top of the charts. It stayed at number one for one week. In its first and only week at number one it sold 186,000 copies beating competition from It's Okay by Atomic Kitten which got to number three, Bot Bot Baby by Westlife which got to number five, It Takes More by Miss Dynamite which got to number seven and Reason by Ianite, which got to number 7, and Reason by Ian Vandal, which got to number 8.

When it was knocked off the top of the charts, Without Me dropped one place to number 2. After dropping out of the top 100 in 2005 after 15 weeks, it re-entered the chart in 2004 and then again in 2022. And as of today, Without Me has spent a total of 20 weeks inside the top 100. In 2021 the song was declared to have sold 1.8 million copies since its UK release and it has received triple platinum status

as a result. Andy, Eminem, Without Me, go. Yeah, I mean I'm not going to dominate too much time with my thoughts on this one because I know

that you two have probably have far more to say and also are far more kind of qualified to talk on Eminem than I am but

I do like this it does get a thumbs up from me but I do think this is a definite step down from the Eminem songs that we've covered

before and just to again emphasise I do like this. You know, it's still decent. I still had fun listening to it. But I had problems with this that are kind of more pronounced than I've had previously with Eminem. You know, the first of which being, you know, Eminem is always, in terms of his vocal style, he's always very kind of obnoxious, very kind of loud and very abrasive. But that is really dialed up to the max on this one, especially with that outro.

Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. It just kind of sounded like the Annoying Orange, you know. It just kind of bothered me in a way that I didn't really expect it to. I think that is a wider symptom of my second issue that I have with this, is that it's all very, very self-congratulatory very self-aware in a way that is maybe crossing the line from you know kind of meta commentary into just straight up you know bragging basically just straight up bravado which I'm not a huge fan of you know it makes songs very of their time it makes them very of their culture specifically

and it means that looking back on it 20 years on it's just sort of like oh i just don't really connect to this and you know it doesn't really land in the way that it should because we're way past the point now where eminem is king of the world which he sort of was at this time and i get that but i just don't really connect with that um so yeah i do have my problems with it but tell you what i really really like about it, is that this is, as always with Eminem, it's so well written. It's so really, really clever with the amount of little hooks, the little catchy bits that are thrown into those verses.

I think the chorus kind of lets it down a bit. I think if it had a bigger chorus that landed in the same way that the Slim Shady chorus does, this could really be really, really great. I think the chorus slightly lets it down a bit but there's just so many bits that i remember when i was a kid from this song you know that stuck with me that this must mean i'm disgusting you know just these little bits of wordplay and little rhythmic changes that more than anything i think the way that he plays with rhythm is so so clever and I have to give full credit for that but yeah I think this is a little bit kind of a bit in your face for me to be honest um so I don't kind of absolutely love it but it's still really good um it's definitely better than the next couple of oh actually no not the next couple of Eminem songs tell a lie because we've got a really

good one coming up but um yeah it's not a favourite Eminem track of mine, but I do like it. I do like it, and I'm ready to be convinced by you two, because I'm sure you're going to be far, far more positive than me, so I'm absolutely ready to be convinced, and I will give up the floor to you both. Lizzie, yeah?

Are you going to try and convince Andy? Well, I mean, I'll try, and then if that fails, we've got one really good one coming up and then one absolute stinker, which might be one of my least favourite ever. Yeah, not looking forward to that. We'll come to that.

Yeah, I'm kind of like you, Andy. Like, I like this. I don't love it as much as Real Slim Shady. Definitely don't love it as much as Stan. I think there's definitely, like, in terms of the good points I like the instrumental it's kind of bouncy and obnoxious and I think it suits the the track really well and obviously Eminem's flow is I'm sure the envy of most rappers like he's just on point as ever he's like pin perfect um in terms of what i don't like i think well i'd say my

biggest problem with this song is that i think it is kind of a rehash of real slim shady and i'm not sure what new is really adding to the mix because i think again it is a song about, well, you know, especially at the end, he kind of covers, like, oh, there's a million others just like me, and what was it he said in this one? It's like 20 million white rappers emerge. Yeah, no matter how many fish in the sea, you'd be so empty without me. It's like, yeah, we get it.

And I think also some of the targets he chooses in this song are quite strange. Like, so he's pretty much the biggest pop star in the world at this point I think it's safe to say and the targets he chooses are Chris Kirkpatrick from NSYNC, Limp Bizkit who yes they were successful but they're kind of on the out at this point and Moby and Moby he calls a homophobic slur but that's another thing and like I get and like saying nobody listens to techno like dude you're from Detroit come on you know that's not true it's just I don't know it seems it's one of these things where it must

get more difficult when you you sort of work your way up and you're punching on all sides and then you reach the top and it's like well now what because I can't punch up I'm already at the top I can kind of only punch down I find a similar thing happen with like Little Britain where there's a marked difference between like series one and series two where it's clear that they just ramp up the controversy side of it they just go right what's the most disgusting and despicable thing we can do or say and let's make six sketches out of it done go it feels like we're sort of veering into that kind of territory and I feel like that's it's a turn that is completed when we get to 2004 but we'll talk about that then obviously

um as with this I do like I know I'm sort of criticizing a lot I do think it's good criticizing a lot i do think it's good but i also think it maybe gives us a hint of what's to come and not so much in a good way yeah lizzie i completely completely agree on that point about how it's turned from punching up to punching down that's that's kind of summarized it very effectively in terms of what i feel about it in terms of the difference between this and real slim shady in context that with real slim shady you know that's like he's had a few big hits now you know people are starting to really know who eminem is and then that's the mission statement of like right you're gonna stand up and listen to me now you know yeah this is someone asserting their authority over that scene and now it's like you know he's at megastar status he's really at

that kind of level of like beyonce or you know ed sheeran is these days and it's like yeah well you know yes we know you're here you don't need to keep doing these big grandstanding songs now and it comes across as more showboating than anything um especially with the music video which really you know plays up that sort of shock factor disgusting side really really hard where you know there's a bit at the end where they're all pretending to be Bin Laden dancing in his cave which bear in mind this is 2002 you know

at the start of the episode we were talking about how they're still clearing ground zero that's like close to the bone they have that bit where it's Elvis dying on the toilet in the music video it's like you don't need to be this in our faces. And it just comes across as, I can do whatever I want because I'm Eminem. And yes, you can.

But, okay, I didn't say you couldn't. You know? Yeah. Yeah, and Elvis is another weird target. I'm glad you mentioned that because I completely forgot that he does go after Elvis a couple of times. And it's like, dude, you know he's been dead for like 25

years? Yeah. I don't know why we particularly need that. I guess it's because he sees himself as or he is at that level where he is this untouchable star and can basically say anything and know

he can get away with it. Which is what he does. Yeah. Doesn't mean he should though, that's say anything and know he can get away with it which is what he does yeah doesn't mean you should though that's the thing like he can get he can say anything can can get away with it but if you actually do then you know it's it's sort of having a cake and eating it isn't it really have like just just sort of showing off for the sake of it and that's yeah that's what i was getting at really yeah anyway rob i'm sure you're far more positive yeah go on yeah i am but i do think that there is a distinct difference between how british people react to things and how american people react to things like before social media kind of homogenized how people react to things especially in terms of if they feel outraged or shocked you know the

british people just tend to kind of go like oh you're doing that are you that's not big and that you know you think you're big and clever do you whereas like americans like you know the you know at the start of this album that this is on like the eminem show there's a whole shout out where it's like he's shouting at like tipper gore and like um like he's shouting at you because typical ran the whole thing like to get people censored and i think typical was like initially behind like the parental advisory stickers and stuff like that have i got that wrong is that a separate case i can't remember no that's that sounds about right yeah and so like i think if in america i guess if you were there you would

feel that outrage like americans just do everything bigger don't they and so when it's outrage it's just like or m&m must be discussed in the house of representatives and like you know it's that sort of thing and something must be done about this like that sort of feeling that you get that i think has only really crept over the atlantic in like the last 10 years this idea that we must be seen to respond to this you know we we must be seen doing something about this we can't let this go on i think we're seeing this at the moment with sam smith where it's like oh yeah we simply cannot let this continue it's like you know 20 years ago somebody like tattoo where it's like for a week everybody's a bit like oh god you see them lesbians on the telly yeah i did anyway do you want to do something else

yeah sure why not and so it just it feels like we're just a bit too glum to get really het up about eminem whereas like if you're in america eminem's like he knows how to push buttons um but um there are definitely points where I agree with you both. So I'll get the positives out of the way. And there are a lot of them. And then I'll move on to the negatives. Because it's very hard to talk about this song without hindsight kind of like shrouding it. Because we know where Eminem ends up.

Like, you know, we know that we're 18 months off what i would call the biggest drop off of any solo rapper i would agree i just think the difference between the m&m show and encore is it's just like somebody falling straight off a skyscraper like he's not even down a cliff with edges and bumps and stuff like that it is just a sheer drop and so listening to this it's kind of like you can just see where it's beginning to go off the rails a little bit um but the positives um i think i actually think this is fantastic um i think it's got more going on on the surface which means that there's less substance to this than some of his previous hits i think but i think it's aiming to be a lot more superficial it's a bit of a palate cleanser and a bit of a reminder of what eminem's good at without

booking expectations too much because like the thing is he's three albums deep now and as you say lizzy he's at the top and so he has nowhere to kind of punch up anymore and he has an audience and that audience he needs to keep it and he needs to cultivate it and painkillers haven't really started eroding his brain yet so he's still interested in wanting the audience around wanting to make stuff for them stuff that he knows that will excite the 13 year old boy who is begging his mom to go to target to buy the cd and then when it gets in the house the mom thinks god why have i let this cd in my house that's you know he knows the character that he needs to play he says at the start of the song you know i've created a monster nobody wants to see marshall no more they want shady and so

it's basically like you said lizzie it's basically slim shady part two which was technically my name is part two so we're kind of on my name is part three but regardless m is so much fun when he's on it like this his technical ability is ridiculous probably more dexterous uh without me than anything he's done up to this point and thinking about it would would probably ever do again like um there is a complete there is a total difference between like dexterity and just rapping fast. Like, yeah, listening to rap, God is like, whoa, like, oh my God, he can rap that fast. And it's like, yeah, we sort of can, but like, what's he saying?

I agree, Andy, that it is self-congratulatory, but I believe that it is kind of deservingly so at this point. I think it would go to your head a little bit because he is on top of the world and as he sort of noticed he's taken a year off things aren't the same when he's not around uh at this point everyone was kind of waiting for him to come back and he knew it so play with that believe your own hype whatever and he is still very funny here like naturally so lots of little comedy skits lots of little memorable moments inside of verses like you were saying andy the

disgusting and um there's a couple of other ones as well that kind of piled on top of each other especially in that second verse i think he was so great at finding that balance between his rap upbringing and his pop sensibilities and i think this really displays that i think he was so great at finding that balance between his rap upbringing and his pop sensibilities and i think this really displays that i think he manages to make it quite aggressive with all the constant word play but it translates into something that hundreds of thousands of people would want to buy and then he manages to i think pull a great chorus hook like that and stick it on a rap song like i think I think the whole product is, like, is really enjoyable and really excellent, I love the silly, like, it's not really a bass line,

but, you know, just the silly, like, instrumental hook there, thing that he goes, na-na-na-na-na, over the end of, at the end of the song, it's just a silly little kind of sax lead, I guess, that kind of just revolves around underneath him. And it has all the hallmarks of where Eminem, his lyrics, you know, like bordering on horrorcore. But like a lot of his instrumentals were sort of a bit, not silly, but there's a slight novelty edge to things. Like, you know, I was listening to my name is before and fun fact um the song the labby sifri song that sampled uh for my name is um the the instrumental was played by chas and dave the yeah um which but it's that weird but it's that kind of connection i always think dr dre as much as he was a hard head and like you you know, pretty serious guy and like, don't fuck with

him and that sort of thing. But his way of mixing beats for Eminem and even on stuff like Detox, there's something slightly playful and sort of unusual and sort of dainty about some of his beats. Like I always think about, you know, the next episode, right? Opens with that big... But then it goes into a little... Bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing. And it's just... It feels kind of silly. And, like, the...

I forgot about Dre as well, where it's just a little going... It's like a little boink noise. It just kind of goes... And it's just... The whole lyrics are like, you know, don't forget about me, I'm really important, like that sort of thing, and then, I've no idea how he makes it work, but without me, it's another one of those Eminem beats, where it's like, this is a bit silly, isn't it, there's like a slight wobble to, like, stuff like Real Slim like real slim shady as well it's something about it

that feels slightly comedic and silly um and so yeah i think without me is up there with you know one of the the best kind of beats that eminem had but and it's only a tiny but for now but fucking hell that butt is gonna grow like to the size of like three 10-story buildings like just b u t like by by the point of like 2004 that just there are little cracks starting to show like his references are a little bit uh a bit like you sort of listen to it and you go oh why why having to go at this guy like i know he's got i know he's got a number one album at the moment, Moby, but, like, it's like one of those where it's like, who out there listened to this song and thought,

yeah, finally someone's had a go at that fucking Moby prick? Like, no. He's picking on, like, pretty easy targets like Lin Chaney. And I know it's, like, topical at that point because, because you know we're just about to go to well I say we definitely we we're about to go to Iraq and Afghanistan at this point and so Dick Cheney's overseeing all of this but like when he drops

the name Chris Kirkpatrick it's like oh yeah the fourth guy that people think about when they imagine NSYNC in their heads like not Justin Timberlake not Lance Bass not what is it JC Ch Chavez, you know, the people with, like, you know, stage names, like, you know, nothing, no, no, no, it's Chris Kirkpatrick, okay, like, a court case with his mum from, like, two years ago, which is another one of

those, like, callbacks, I think, to, like, My Name Is, where it's like you know my mum smokes more pot than I do which is the whole where the lawsuit came from and then it's like oh well settled on my lawsuit fuck you Debbie like okay great and like you say Limp Bizkit like okay fair enough. Chris Kirkpatrick

in particular it feels like and I don't know you but I'm sure you're a jerk so I just got it what's's going on yeah that is exactly it like it's i think it's a sign i mean i know we had a bit of a feud with fred durst for some reason but we've kind of been here like he referenced fred durst on the real slim shady and yeah just a bit like you're recycling things a bit too much here and not in like a knowingly winky kind of way like he did with I drank a fifth of vodka at Dermody Drive, like on Stan, where he cribs that line from My Name Is and stuff. So, you know, he's very good at being self-referential,

but it feels like the self-referential stuff in this is not as strong as it could be. And I think it's a little sign that his finger is drifting slightly off the pulse ever so slightly i don't like this as much as real slim shady and i definitely don't like it as much as stan but i think his fingers just i mean as far as i'm concerned like we're living in rare times right now where kendrick lamar has made it four or five albums into his discography and i would argue he has not dropped a dud and i don't even think he's really slowed showed signs of slowing down like yeah okay like damn is maybe not as good as uh to pimple butterfly or good kid mad city but like to pimp a butterfly is like a

monolith of modern music i mean i think just this last week it's gone to number one on rateyourmusic.com it's overtaken okay computer after like 15 years of okay computer being number one and so it's like a titan of especially of modern rap i think of modern pop as well and dan was a bit of a step down from that but i think he's going to step and dan was a bit of a step down from that but i think he's going to step back up with um his recent one mr morale and the big steppers and like that's rare i think to find a solo rapper who goes more than three albums without you thinking oh you're just losing your energy a bit there or you're just not quite as witty as you used to be it's rare because it's so hard to sustain the level of rage wit dexterity and energy that's required to be like an exciting rap artist and i think eminem is pushing

himself to the limit and then things happen in like 2003 in his personal life i think he just burns out to be honest but yeah but you know and he's also got the eight mile soundtrack coming up as well so like he's working on so and and the film so he's working on so much at the moment and i think we we see the come down um quite soon but not next but yeah so i think this is fantastic but knowing what comes it's hard not to see bits of it in this um and so i'll i'll step away can i just say um i'm glad you mentioned like what's coming up with regard to like the iraq war because i was just i was just thinking then and i thought the world in which the Real Slim Shady was released was a very different world to the world in which Without Me was released.

Oh, yeah. Like, because at that time, in, like, 2000, he was public enemy number one, and it was this whole thing of, like, music is corrupting our children, and, like you say, typical horror and parental advisory and all of that stuff and by 2002 that's like old news yeah it's all you know war on terror and and all of that kind of stuff that's kind of driving public outrage and so i don't think this has the same bite as it did, say, two years before.

Yeah, to kind of leave off on this and to sort of look ahead to the future, I think it's hard to make Eminem seem as dangerous when an actual full-on disaster horror has happened in real life in New York onember 11th i just think after 9 11 a person making music the danger that's needed i i just think it like you say energy's elsewhere understandably absolutely and how eminem responds to that uh is gonna be a god it's gonna be a massive discussion point isn't it? Just can't wait for that

episode when we get there but anyway, before we go we're going to just check if any songs this week are heading into the piehole or being lifted up into our lovely vault that stands above us somewhere in the clouds, so

If Tomorrow Never Comes by Ronan Keating. Is that going anywhere for anyone? Pie hole. Yep, second in pie hole. Hard is the pie hole. Yeah, two votes for the pie hole. I'm not quite there. Just a little by Liberty X.

Vault. Narrowly misses out on the vault for me. But still really good though. Yeah, me too. It's still really good though. Yeah, me too. Yeah, yeah, I agree. Yeah, me too. And Without Me by Eminem. Nope. Afraid not. I'm

putting it in. I think it is Vault material for me. That is it for this week's episode. Thank you so much for checking us out and for sticking with us thank you very much when we come back we'll be covering the period between the 2nd of june and the 3rd of august that is a yawning chasm compared to what we've been dealing with the past two weeks uh so hooray there might be more news so we'll see you then thank you very much

bye