Hits 21 - 2003 (5): Elton John, Black Eyed Peas, Sugababes

Episode Date: May 14, 2023

Hello again, everyone, and welcome back to Hits 21, the show that's taking a look back at every UK #1 hit single of the 21st century - from January 2000, right through to the present day. Twitter: @Hits21UK Email: [e-mail]

Hi there everyone, welcome back to Hits 21 where me, Rob me, Andy and me, Lizzie all look back at every single UK number one of the 21st century from January 2000 right through to the present day if you want to get in touch with us, you know where to find us it's over on Twitter at Hits21UK right through to the present day. If you want to get in touch with us, you know where to find us.

It's over on Twitter at Hits21UK. That is at Hits21UK. You can email us too. Just send it on over to Hits21Podcast at gmail.com. Thank you so much for joining us once again. We're currently looking back at the year 2003 and this time we'll be covering the period between the 31st of August and the 25th of October, so it's another big jump through the year. Last week, our poll winner. I think this is our most voted upon poll so

far that we've had. It Feels like a lot of people out there felt very passionately about two of the songs that we covered, and less passionately about one of them last week. So Crazy in Love took the vote and won the song for last week. But Breathe by Blue Cantrell and Sean Paul, I feel like that got more votes and lost than

we've had, like than some winners have had on our show in the past so I did say that would happen, I did suggest that, do you know I actually forgot to vote this week so thanks to everyone else for stepping in but I would have voted for Crazy in Love as well so

it would have been less close Right, okay on to this week's episode and as always It's for crazy in love as well, so it would have been less close. Right, okay. On to this week's episode, and as always, we're going to give you some news headlines from around the time that the songs we're covering this week were number one in the UK. Legendary country singer-songwriter Johnny Cash dies in Nashville, Tennessee, aged 71. Cash had been admitted to hospital after suffering complications

related to diabetes and he died less than four months after his wife, June Carter. 24 years after being introduced to the world of commercial air travel, Concorde makes its last commercial flight. With the ability to take off at 250m per hour and fly at over 1300 miles per hour, Concorde planes could fly from London to New York in just three and a half hours. Low passenger numbers following the July 2000 crash and the impact of 9-11 on air travel were both cited as reasons for the shutdown. And we went on a school trip to see a Concorde plane just sat there doing nothing after the shutdown. We went to see it before it was taken away and it was a really boring trip. Just a stationary plane. What's

the point of that? I feel like it's one of those things that you'll only really appreciate a bit more when you're a bit older. Even then, it's like, what are you looking at? Meanwhile in America, President George W. Bush admits that there is no evidence linking deposed Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein with the September 11th attacks in New York. A month later, 11 people are killed and 70 are injured when the Staten Island ferry crashes at full speed after the captain had set sail while under a heavy dose of painkillers.

I've been on the Stue of Liberty Ferry a few times. I don't actually remember that. I think it's the best way to see the Statue of Liberty. Oh, that's the one I've been on then. Because, yeah, I remember going on a ferry around those parts to see the Statue of Liberty. So, yeah, I must have been on that too. Because it's the ferry that goes to Ellis Island,

which is obviously the one that everybody gets on, because that's a tourist ferry. It costs more money, whereas if you get the Staten Island ferry, it's a commuter ferry, and so it's just kind of bog-standard pricing, but you get really close to Ellis Island anyway, and so

you won't be able to go on Ellis Island and go up into the Statue of Liberty's head or whatever, but you can still see it and go, oh look, there's the Statue of Liberty, and then you just stay on and come back to Manhattan. The films to hit the top of the UK box office during this period were Pirates of the Caribbean, Curse of the Black Pearl for one week, American Wedding for two weeks, Pirates of the Caribbean again for two more weeks, Calendar Girls for one week, The Italian Job for one week, Calendar Girls for one more week, Bad Boys 2 for one week and then Finding Nemo for four weeks and I should just say that in

that film review there I've also covered a bit of last week's episode as well, because I went into the episode thinking that we were only covering the first week of August, as opposed to every week in August, so put up with the backlog there. I did think that sounded like a busy month at the cinema. Yeah.

A lot of weeks in that month, yeah. Meanwhile, the Daily Telegraph announces that the BBC has commissioned a revival of Doctor Who, with the frankly magnificent Russell T Davies as lead writer and executive producer. The show would eventually return to screens in 2005, with Christopher Eccleston and HIT21 alumni Billy Piper

in the lead roles. But more on that when we get there. And Alex Parks wins the second series of Fame Academy finishing ahead of Alistair Griffin and Carolyn Good. Meanwhile over the pond, the 2003 Rugby World Cup begins with host country Australia kicking

off the tournament against Argentina. And in America, actor and former professional bodybuilder Arnold Schwarzenegger is elected as governor of California. He would remain in office for another eight years, eventually leaving his post in January 2011. I mean, I know that he was not, like, you know, the worst guy in government.

He was, from what I know, he was fairly innocuous. But that does feel like a moment, like in the way things went in the 21st century, Arnold Schwarzenegger being elected as governor of California. It kind of feels like a bit of a straight line between that and Trump, doesn't it? Yeah, just a bit. Yeah, popular figure from TV and or film

making a move into politics. Right, Andy, album charts in the UK, how are they looking? Yeah, I've really not got much for you this week, because there is one big star dominating everything. So where we left off last week, The Darkness were at number one with Permission to Land, and that is unseated in mid-september by absolution by muse which was fairly big one for me um when i was younger um as it was for quite a lot of people our age i imagine

um yeah decent album not as good as the one either immediately before or immediately after it though um went three times platinum and was number one for one week before being unseated by Dido with Life for Rent, which went nine times platinum and was number one for four weeks. And within the year of 2003, it was the highest selling album of the year. It will return to number one several times over the next couple of months. But yeah, four weeks at number one straight away and nine times platinum for Dido very impressive

and that's all I've got for you this week because it's the month of Dido yeah cool yeah that Muse record is decent I think the thing I always find with Muse is that like their singles and stuff I always kind of well up to a point I really get into but then I always kind of, well, up to a point, I really get into. But then I go into their albums and there's very little there that makes me think or feel as much.

You know, like Hysteria or, like, Stockholm Syndrome or Time Is Running Out off that record. None of them, you know, like, songs like Blackout and Thoughts of a atheist really title that make me they don't really get much you know they don't get much going within me um i agree i prefer origin asymmetry and black holes and revelations like you i think i just have a lot of i think i just have a lot of goodwill for any albums from that period now by muse because when you compare them to the stuff they're putting out these days i mean it's just to say they're a shadow of their former self is an understatement so yeah um Lizzie how are the states how are the states looking yeah well after Crazy in Love reigned over the top spot throughout July and August, Nelly actually scored his third number one with Shake Your Tail Feather,

featuring P. Diddy and Murphy Lee, which was on the Bad Boys 2 soundtrack that I mentioned last week as well. So, yeah, despite a four-week run at number one in America, it only got to number 10 in the UK around the time we're covering this week. Also in October, Beyonce's chart domination continued when Baby Boy featuring

Sean Paul got to number one for nine weeks, one more than Crazy in Love earlier in the year. However, it was held off number one in the UK by the second song we're covering this week. Moving on to albums, we have another quite long period to cover on this week's episode. So I'll just say that all but one of the following albums got to number one for one week. So we've got The Neptunes Present Clones by The Neptunes. Love and Life by Mary J. Blige. Metamorphosis by Hilary Duff. That's the one where she turns into a giant cockroach. Heavier Things by John Mayer.

Grand Champ by DMX, rest in peace. Two Inks at number one for Speakerboxx, The Love Below by Outkast. That's also getting to number one next week as well, so I'll discuss it more then. And finally, Chicken and Beer by Ludacris. All right then, thank you very much both for those reports. Okay, we're getting through. I think we're getting through this episode in good time.

So the first song up this week is this. Catch a star If you can Wish for something special Let it be me My love is free Sing a song to yourself Think of someone listening One melody

You're up for me I'll write a symphony Just for you and me If you let me love you I'll paint a masterpiece Just for you to see If you let me love you Let me love you Are you ready? Are you ready me love you, let me love you

Are you ready? Are you ready for love? Yes I am, are you? Are you ready? Are you ready for love? Yes I am, are you? Are you ready? Are you ready for love? Are you ready? Are you ready for love? Okay, this is Are You Ready For Love by Elton John. First released as a single from Elton John's EP The Tom Bell Sessions in 1979,

Are You Ready For Love originally reached number 42 in the UK charts. Following its use by Sky Sports to advertise the upcoming Premier League season, the song was re-released, becoming Elton's 84th single overall to be released in the UK and his 6th to reach number 1. This is not the last time we'll be discussing Elton on this podcast. Are You Ready For Love went straight in at number one as a brand new entry knocking Blue Cantrell and Sean Paul off the top spot. It stayed at number one for one week. In its first and only week atop the charts, it sold 57,000 copies beating competition from

Light Glue by Sean Paul, which got to number three, Miss Perfect by Abs, which got to number 3. Miss Perfect by Abs, which got to number 5. Miss Independent by Kelly Clarkson, which got to number 6. And Genie in a Bottle by Speedway, which got to number 10. When it was knocked off the top of the charts, Are You Ready for Love dropped two places to number 3. By the time it was done on the chart, both its runs in the top 100 had seen it knock up a total chart stay of 25 weeks. The song was certified platinum in the UK in July last year. So July 2022.

Andy, how do you feel about that? Yeah, it's an interesting history, this one, isn't it? It's interesting that we're kind of mining the past again with Elton, because that's kind of a running theme of his last few big hits. I mean, the late 90s and the early noughties, that had kind of been the story of Elton. It's always weird for me to remember that at this point, although it feels a lot later in time, we are still only six years on from Elton having the biggest selling single

of all time in the UK. You would think he would still be right at the top here, but he wasn't really. Like, he'd had a bit of a dry few years, and we didn't really have much to say about it. Sorry seems to be the hardest word with blue last year. That represents a bit of a low point in the early noughties for him, I think. But then this comes out, and I remember at the time that, you know, I didn't know much about

Elton John, that I was still a kid, you know, and I saw him as kind of one for my parents, and filed him under the same category, frankly, as the likes of Cliff Richard, and didn't pay him much attention, but then this comes along, and it felt like everyone just sort of fell newly in love with Elton, this is so good it's just so feel good it's just it's such a cheery happy song with kind of very little to find any kind of gloominess in at all it's just a really nice happy song which is really well written really well produced and very well performed as well and it is fascinating to me that this has been unearthed pretty much untouched from its original recording,

because it still really does sound like it's from the 70s. It sounds a lot like Island in the Stream, I think, in various parts. It sounds a lot like that kind of stuff in general, like that kind of Kenny Rogers sort of stuff. And that's not a bad thing. It is sort of like a time capsule's not a bad thing. You know, it is sort of like a time capsule that this is timeless in a way as a song. And so you have an artist here who you'd think is sort of starting to wane in his career. But actually, you know, it

weirdly became really cool. I remember this song that like everybody at school loved this. It was just one of those united things that everybody would sing this to each other. Everybody found it really catchy. It kind of made everyone smile. And I think to this day, still, a lot of people have a lot of love for this. That it's

one of those ones that people instantly recall as soon as they hear those opening piano notes. It's just really warming to the heart um it's not the most complicated song in the world and you know it's sort of deceptively simple really in that it's got some nice little tricks to it that are kind of very characteristic of Elton in that like it makes some kind of interesting chord changes

at times that you wouldn't expect I really like that that pre-chorus with the angels below us, where it kind of stops and starts a few times to get you kind of hyped for the chorus. And then I think the real magic thing about it is that big build-up to the final chorus, where it changes key like ten times and you think it's building to a permanent key change, which might not be the best thing, but then, wham, it lands back down in the original key again and gets everyone dancing with it. It's just, like, it's very simply put together, but it makes it look very easy,

and it's actually a really charming song that I can imagine that when it was unearthed and people listened to it, they thought, God, why didn't we put this out there? Like, this is really right up there with some of his best. As you can tell, I really like it like i say i don't think it's particularly complicated and i don't think it's the most kind of interesting thing in the world other than some of the choices that are made in um the way it's written musically but it's just really nice it's just really nice um and i just really nice. And I have really, like, happy memories of singing this with my friends in school

and dancing to it at school discos and stuff. I think it was one of those ones that is kind of a song for all the family, really. It kind of crossed generations in that kids really liked it. And then parents and grandparents who'd kind of grown up or, you know, had their young adult lives with Elton were really happy to revisit that period too. I think that kind of magic in a bottle of putting something pretty decent from the mid-70s that can cross generations like that,

I think that's something that is tried to be recaptured by later songs in the decade, particularly Amarillo. I think that taps into the same sort of thing with different generations getting on board with the song for different reasons. And I don't like Amarillo, just a spoiler there. But I really, really do like this.

So to answer the question, am I ready for love? Yes, I am ready for love. And the thing I love is, are you ready for love? Lizzie, how about you? Yeah, I agree with a lot of your points, Andy. I think it's easy to... I'm sure you asked me this week, why wasn't this a hit back in 1979?

But you look at Elton John's history, I've kind of had to do my homework this week, it seems like the 80s were a bit of a turbulent time for him. So he announced his retirement from performing in late 1977 and Bernie Taupin went off to collaborate with other artists he released two albums without Bernie Taupin neither of which were particularly well received as well as you know the recording sessions with Philadelphia soul legend Tom Bell. So this comes from those sessions, but only like a handful of songs were ever completed

because Bell and John weren't quite on the same page. So I think in addition to that, by 1979, the disco boom had gobbled up a lot of those mid-70s Philly soul acts, like the Stylistics, that Tom Bell was also heavily involved with and with the likes of you know Blondie, Gary Newman, The Police, the rest of the new wave movement starting to dominate the UK charts I can see how this might have been perceived as a bit too much of a throwback and Elton John's own attempts at disco like I say were received quite poorly. So despite Song For Guy hitting the top 10 in 1978 and a reunion with Torpen in 1979,

Elton actually had a run of singles that barely cracked the top 40 between 1979 and 1982 including this song. So he had one top 10 hit with Blue Eyes in 1982 but it's not until 1983 where he becomes a chart victor again with I guess that's why they call it the blues and I'm Still Standing both hitting the top five that year from his first album in seven years to be entirely written in collaboration with Bernie Taupin. Well I mean so fast forward 20 years and actually the way this got to number one is weirdly similar to A Little Less Conversation from last year. It's like a long forgotten single by an established artist gets remixed, the remix gets picked up by nightclub DJs, it gets used on an advert, it gets re-released to the public, and lo and behold, it gets all the way to number one.

And it's easy to see why, because it is a really likeable, warm, summery song. It's the sort of thing that I have to put aside my slight dislike of Elton John for, because, yeah, it is really good it's I will say it's kind of noticeably not typical Elton if that makes sense like no I agree yeah I do agree on that yeah from what I've heard is that Tom Bell kind of encouraged him to you know um go down an octave in his voice and it kind of gives it this different feel to what he was doing in like the rest of the 70s where he would usually sing much higher and yeah it just it feels like he's always been in this soul world um so it's kind of amazing to think that this just wasn't

really taken up at the time but I guess like i say it may have just been too late for this sort of thing like if this came out in 1975 i feel like it might have been an award then but yeah by 79 it's obviously a different landscape but anyway yeah i think it's i think it's held up really well i do think i'd maybe disagree with you andy on the you know the yes I am yes I am that bit where it keeps on ascending I feel like that's the part where it sort of runs out of steam for me a little bit like it it doesn't really know how to resolve itself so it just gets bigger and bigger and bigger before like crashing back down to earth it feels like there's something kind of missing, and it's maybe explained by the fact that Elton John and Tom Bell didn't quite get on in the way that they'd intended.

But overall, yeah, I like this a lot. I think it's a good way to do a throwback single, and it probably, I wouldn't say it relaunched Elton's career because he was already fully back by this point but I think it's a nice reminder of what he was capable of in the past and it's a really good way to uncover a forgotten gem like this. If I can just jump in on like a really interesting point about you about if this had been released in 75 or in 79 or indeed in the 80s, that it would have done different kinds of business probably. And it's interesting because it does kind of straddle quite a few different genres, this.

It's got that kind of country Americana stuff to it that a lot of 70s Elton does but it's also very disco and I remember the music video playing on the disco quite heavily and giving it that sort of video and then it's like you say it's sort of soul and Motown in it as well and I can't really think of another Elton song that is sort of non-genre specific like this yeah i agree with you that it's very unique in his discography that it's not there it's not very typical of him and maybe that's why they didn't know what to do with it because it's like in quite a few different genres at once here which i like i think that's a good thing i think i think if anything it's not disco enough at least not for 1979 because i think by this point it was a lot faster and heavier

and this is kind of more like mid-70s like say stylistics, Delphonics, Detroit Spinners that kind of thing I think by 1979 it was just kind of out of the way a bit yeah you might be right there yeah yeah I kind of land in between the two of you i think um i like this a fair bit um i always kind of have done i think you know it's kind of strange i think to associate a song from 1979 so strongly with 2003 like this is very evocative of a particular time in pop i think um i don't know if it's just because the remix, I think, does a lot of favours in terms of slotting it into a more kind of 21st century contemporary setting. Like, it feels a bit treblier and a bit less dusty than the original version. It makes, like, total sense, I think,

like, why people would have latched onto this during a time when pop is moving quite fast and is pretty unforgivinggiving given how the charts are geared towards like first week sales and stuff like that you know i think at the time this was maybe so successful sort of off the back of like you know the fact that nobody had really heard this you know that this at the time maybe this was a bit of like uh a hidden gem from a national treasure that sort of thing you know like you say you're only six weeks on from candle in the wind 97 uh six years on rather um and so maybe you know it's still very much in the public conscious and so when they find out oh

there's this single from 1979 that only a few people bought and oh, isn't it good? So it totally makes sense I think this is ornate and quite charming and sincere in a way that a lot of pop after They're sort of like the 80s doesn't really I don't know that I feel like there is a sweet spot of you know, my favorite kind of like periods of pop and stuff and I think the late 70s and early 80s is probably my favorite little period just for like in terms of like you know number one singles and things that get on earth from that period um i love the little meter switch in the chorus where it suddenly drops into the bar of six for the um yes um uh yeah um i love the marching band instrumentation like the whistles and the brass um provides so much color i think to the arrangement um and i'm

always forgiving of how fun disco tries to be and i love the little philly soul touches as well that are in there obviously um with Tom Bell and everything, but then I sort of sit and think about, like, why don't, I love this, like, why doesn't it move me more, and I think it's because I always struggle to connect with this emotionally, like, much like the Daniel Bedingfield song last week, Never Gonna Leave Your Side, I get a little, not as bored, but like, the imagery and the lyrics doesn't quite, it doesn't quite get to me, it feels quite broad and not really suggestive of anything in particular, except like, a range of feelings that are sort of loosely associated with falling in love, but kind of lack the specificity for me to connect with the

story that's being told maybe I do kind of prefer Elton when he's working with Bernie Taupin like I kind of find myself sitting and admiring this more than I find myself properly engaging with it and wanting to move to it um but you know still I still, I mean everything I said about, like, its positives. I think this is lovingly composed, passionately performed. Late-era disco is a funny little period, I think, because disco begins to get replaced by electro and funk and stuff like that. And anything from around that period that either leans forwards or leans backwards i find you know the the fade out of disco i find that very interesting and i'm pleased that it

found a home in 2003 of all places so thank you very much to that intern at sky sports who unearthed it for us all to uh for us to be discussing it today right okay moving on to the second song that we're going to be covering this week and it is this What's wrong with the world, mama? People living like they ain't got no mamas I think the whole world's addicted to the drama Only attracted to things that'll bring the trauma Overseas, yeah, we trying to stop terrorism But we still got terrorists here living In the USA, the big CIA Thank you. to get all right yeah madness is what you demonstrate and that's exactly how anger works

and operates man you gotta have love that's a set of straight take control of your mind and meditate let your soul gravitate to the love y'all Okay, this is Where Is The Love by Black Eyed Peas. Released as the lead single from the group's third studio album, titled Ellie Funk, Where Is The Love is Black Eyed Peas' third single overall to be released in the UK and their first to reach number one. This is not the last time we'll be discussing the Black Eyed Peas on this podcast. Where Is The Love first entered the UK charts at number 97, getting to number 1 in its third week on the chart, knocking Elton John off the top spot. It stayed at number 1 for 6 weeks, making it the longest running number 1 so far on Hits 21.

number one so far on Hits 21. Across its six weeks on top of the charts, the song sold a total of 454,000 copies. The highest new entries during this time were as follows. White Flag by Dido, which got to number two in its first week. Sunshine by Gareth Gates, which got to number three in Where Is The Love's second week at number one. Sweet Dreams by LAX by Gates, which got to number three in Where Is The Love second week at number one. Sweet Dreams by LAX by Rachel Stephens got to number two during the third week. I Believe In A Thing Called Love by The Darkness got to number two during its fourth week at number one, which is a shame. Sundown by S Club 8 got to number four during its fifth week on top of the charts. Another number two single for them. S Club 8 got to number 4 during its 5th week on top of the charts another number 2 single for them and Baby Boy

by Beyonce and Sean Paul got to number 2 as well during its 6th and final week on top of the charts when Where Is The Love was knocked off the top of the charts it fell 2 places to number 3 it initially left the charts in January

2004 however it re-entered the charts in 2010 2011 2012 2013 and 2017 to date it has spent a total of 37 weeks inside the top 100 and the song was certified triple platinum in the UK in January 2021. So, huge deal. Everybody remembers this one. Lizzie, how do we feel about Where Is The Love? It's okay. I don't know.

I found it hard to talk about objectively, or even subjectively. It's just kind of there for me. I like it a lot more than a lot of later Black Eyed Peas stuff but it's just I don't know, do you want to kick off on this?

because I'm kind of stuck on this one yeah, okay, yeah I have the total opposite problem I feel like I have too much to say yeah, I've got loads to say yeah the thing with this first of all that I want to know is this the first time

in Hits 21 history where we've had two consecutive songs that both end with the same suffix in the title which is the love with the question mark are you ready for love? where is the love? anyway, mark are you ready for love where is the love anyway um i loved this as a kid um heavy emphasis on as a kid um i owned elefunc and like i played it a lot uh i remember

going away in 2003 for christmas and i remember taking those you know those big cd players that you could you had a little handle it was like a portable thing, about the size of like, I don't know, like two human heads, and they both looked like an ant's skull, you know, like that sort of thing, and you lugged them around wherever you were going, and I remember taking that to whatever cottage I was staying in, just so I could listen to it. As time has gone on, I've become more lukewarm on this, but I still think I like it. I've realised this week that I like it more than I thought I did these days, because I caught up with it semi-recently,

just as I was compiling the playlist for the show about the songs that we'd have to listen to as we went through. And I remember listening to it last year and sort of thinking, eh, this is fine, but I think, you know, looking at it closer this week, I think it awkwardly stands on the line between, like, political urgency, but also just very cynical emotional manipulation, and it just about comes out on the side of the former I think. So first things first something I've noticed so far in 2003 is that a lot of the pop music in the charts hasn't really reflected the reality of American and British life at the time. Maybe it's because bands like Green Day aren't ready yet you know they're still working on American Idiot in the background and, you know, Hail to the Thief by Radiohead was never,

probably not gonna conjure up a number one single for us to discuss. So having this fairly well known kind of middling hip-hop group, like conscious hip-hop group, suddenly pivot to making like a huge bid for mainstream appeal with something that's politically present and definitely of the moment that it was released in, I think is something I've appreciated more just in the context of the show. I think despite its flaws, which I'll definitely get into, this is the of americans gradually waking up in a new world and not really knowing how to deal with it i think this song like i think without this song getting to number one i don't think the reality of how mad the mid-2000s were politically would be fairly reflected at

least on this show anyway um i've also never really appreciated before just kind of how carefully the arrangement in the song develops. You get the little changes to the strings in the song, the little guitar lines that creep in during that second half. It grows in size, I think, and you can feel the emotions. The performances from Will.i.am and Apple and Taboo and Fergie and Justin Timberlake, they managed to find a balance, I think, between desperation and accessibility. And plus, you know, great chorus with the layered vocals in that chorus. And, you know, it's just a chorus that I don't think anybody forgets, partly because it was quite, I think the chorus is the most striking bit of the song, I think it's the most cohesive part as well, there are loads of good reasons why

six weeks at number one makes sense, but I think there are some bad reasons for why it was number one for so long I think the message of the song is diluted and undermined a bit and contradicted at points I think it really wants to make statements in some moments but then in other moments it just wants to do the peace and love man YOLO hope not hate kind of thing in in other in other moments it just wants to do the peace and love man yolo hope not hate kind of thing in in other in other moments and i think you can tell that this wound up being like a sanitized version of what the original idea was because you know they still need to sell records and like it had been discussed that after the relative commercial failure of the first two albums that they did they met with some a&R guy who was like

hey why don't you just make pop music instead and they decided to do that um so like it's a bold choice to just flat out call the CIA terrorists like I like that um but then comparing the CIA with the Bloods and Crips and then to the KKK? Like, I don't know, it feels like there's a point missed here, which is that there is a chasm between gang violence and stake-sanctioned war crimes and geopolitical meddling and the long, dark, genocidal intentions of the KKK, and it feels like the song is beginning to boil itself down to well the title which is just love yeah like this kind of uncomplicated broad message I think that a lot of direct and purposeful lines like if you only have love for

your own race then you only leave space to discriminate they get undercut by pretty weak couplets and rhyming schemes like rhyming hate with what was it rhyming discriminate with hate twice and then irate and it just feels like they couldn't think of a word

and they just thought well irate rhymes with it so right backwards from there and then say sorry to interrupt, I rate rhymes with it, so right backwards from there, and then say... Sorry to interrupt, but I have to slightly call you out on that, because you've kind of praised Eminem for doing the same thing with endless rhymes of the same phrase, like, over and over again. Like, I don't know. I'd have to slightly check you on that one.

I think so, but I think... I mean, to be fair, I've also slagged off some of Eminem's rhyme schemes on here i've never been that keen on the cantaloupe cantaloupe thing that's fair um yeah i've never really been keen on that although to be fair i think if if i think i ultimately this song isn't really about the the technique though so i'll i'll walk back on some of this in a bit. But also saying, like, basically in Taboo's verse, implying that the war on terror is like a conspiracy,

like, that's pretty risky stuff to just say in 2003, especially as, like, a mainstream pop artist. Your career could be tanked overnight if you say anything like that. R-E-C, Dixie Chicks, but I don't know, a lot of the rhyme schemes across the whole song feel pretty unimaginative, and they don't, they don't leave much to the imagination either, and then the best one of all is in the final verse where they rhyme media with criteria then bacteria then cinema like okay like it just feels like they every time they place the emphasis with the double tracked triple track vocals on those words i'm just like this isn't quite as effective as you think that

it is at least not on me anyway it clearly worked on all the people who went out and bought it. Cinema is a very loose rhyme. That's a very, very useful one, cinema. Yes, it's a bit of a... Yeah, I feel like they just didn't want to say media again. The overall problem I have with this is that no matter how warm and nostalgic it kind of makes me feel, I think its idea of protest kind of boils down to what's shown in the video,

which is all the people running around and putting stickers everywhere with the question mark on them, because it's like, it raises an eyebrow, and it's an interesting image, I think, the question mark just kind of being like, you know, like, it's, I think it's quite a striking image, but it doesn't have much behind it, it's just sort of there, there's not much disobedience with it, it's just kind of like putting a poster on a wall. And I think the whole kind of thing around the song kind of gets summed up at the end of the second verse where Will.i.am literally answers the question of where is the love with, I don't know. But, having said that, I'm not expecting Black Eyed Peas to have the answers, I think it's kind of

silly to expect one piece of art to be anything other than one brushstroke in a much larger painting, I think that music and films and things like that, when they try to be so many, especially when it comes to like political things or with like representational you know that kind of things it feels like they and it tries to be too many if things try to be too many things at once then lots of things kind of get undermined i think that it's a bit of a random example but from a few years later there's a disney movie um princess and the frog where it's like they take a story where it's like oh we have we have our first black African-American princess, but then in like 20 minutes, she gets turned into a frog. And so it's like, she's not really then, is she?

Because like, she was on screen for 20 minutes and then she's a frog for the majority of the movie. And it's like, you meant well, but you probably didn't need to put this story in this film. It's because it just means like you've made this big deal about how like you have an african-american princess and then she's a frog for most of it and you've kind of walked back on that haven't you so i'd rather like you know have pieces of art except that they can only be one example of how things are at a current moment and so i'm totally fine with um this song not

having the answers to 9-11 or you know that that sort of thing um but i think ultimately the like i said before this is the sound of america's kind of liberal center and middle classes trying to recover from 9-11 but also simultaneously reckon with the fact that they're causing more untold damage in another country far away that they've never seen will never see but whose sons are being sent to fight there and there's a lot of confusion which i think is nicely really nicely summarized just by the question mark of like huh you know like i think there is a collective like what kind of feeling in 2003 in america um i get so like to sum up i get way more out of other black ip singles from around this time but like you lizzie

there are four more number ones that they get on this show and i hate three of them so um so i'm happy to just kind of have this land in the middle um so yeah i think it's okay it's like a mild thumbs up i think it's this big kind of like confused thing but is also kind of aiming to provide answers for lots of people it's it's a very interesting thing to discuss i think what about you andy yeah i think it's i think it's a really interesting one as well i i agree with almost well yeah pretty much everything you said there to be honest probably that was a really good summary and i yeah i would echo a lot of the same points but i kind of have my own take on this as well, just in terms of where this sits precisely in the early part of the 21st century, the early part of the noughties as well,

I think is really like the key to this, that you do this too early and no one is going to engage with this. You do this too late and it becomes obvious. And I think we look back at it now as a song that you know it doesn't say anything particularly controversial you know it kind of sounds a little bit passe a little bit obvious a little bit you know yeah okay there's nothing in here that anyone would particularly disagree with and i think we've really benefited from going through the charts week by week so far in the show and going through the headlines week by week as well that that was that's been in my head with listening to this where it's only really occurred to me this time

around that actually we're not there yet we're not really at that point where you can just openly do this sort of thing um and that's like a given because in the immediate aftermath of 9-11 you know it was ultra patriotism any kind of criticism of america was really taboo and then you know fast forward to the other end of the scale to like the mid-naughties like 2004 5 6 and you know it's very very cool to criticize the bush administration in particular and the western world and the iraq war and that's like the done thing and everybody's at it and we're right in the middle we're right in the middle middle of this awkward period here where, you know, it's interesting that we said at the start of the episode that it's only just now becoming clear that Iraq,

the Iraq war is not about 9-11, that these are two different things. And there's a lot of confusion at this time that people don't really know whether what's happening is something they agree with. They don't really know what what's happening is something they agree with they don't really know what's happening at all and I think it's interesting to me that the charts the initial reaction to 9-11 which we remarked upon it seemed to be this kind of escapism where it's like okay distract ourselves with fun novelty songs stupid stuff like because I got high and hey baby and stuff like that and I know that that's more of a UK thing but the same sort of thing was happening in America and we're two years on now almost precisely to the day and it feels like this whole song is about right can we actually sit down and talk about things like because we

don't really know what the direction of travel is for this country right now and what we do know we don't necessarily like and it's time to start talking about it we need to pick ourselves up it feels like the first real genuine response to the times that america and the western world is in that we've seen on this show and a lot of what it's saying for the time is very bold it's actually very i wouldn't say innovative because a lot of people are thinking it but it's very brave to say it and to you know to really go for a mainstream success with this. I completely agree about the thing about calling the CIA terrorists. That is particularly brave.

But there's a lot in this that sort of... I really like the way it's produced in terms of instrumentation and in terms of the tone of it. It's actually very light touch. It's quite welcoming. It's quite warm. in terms of the tone of it, that it's actually very light touch, that it's quite welcoming, it's quite warm,

that it's got this quite nice major key tonality to it, quite light in terms of those strings and some sort of smooth guitar in the background. It's never like aggressive or angry. It doesn't feel like a protest song. It feels more like a kind of charity single sort of thing. So that kind of welcomes you in, like that kind of slow burn intro with that light instrumentation kind of gives me the feeling of right sit down with me for a bit let's talk about something that we've not talked about before you know let's kind of reflect on where we are in the world and not get angry at it you know

not sort of say smash the system and you know overturn our leaders because it's not really about that like you say rob it doesn't really suggest answers it's more about just posing the question like have you thought about this like have you noticed the way things are changing in the world and i and you know i was lucky enough to be all of us we were lucky enough to be kids at this time so a lot of the really frightening things that were happening and a lot of the real uncertainty was kind of lost on us. But I mean, looking back now, especially the fact that, you know, wars were happening without the consent of the public, that there was this sort of alignment between political agendas and business agendas and globalization all coming in together,

and business agendas and globalisation all coming in together, which kind of created this sense of power travelling out of the hands of people and into the power of, you know, very wealthy people and very, like, sort of corporate dangerous interests. This is something that is only really starting to become apparent now that no one... Sorry, now as in 2003, that no one is really talking about yet. And it's very brave to do that. And so, yeah, that's the thing that I really is really talking about yet um and it's very brave to do that and um so yeah that's the thing that i really appreciated the most about is that actually this is quite revolutionary for the time that they are raising points here that are not really that much in the

public consciousness yet um you know american idiot as you, is still over a year away, I think. You know, all that kind of movement of protest songs and the sort of mid-naughties anti-Republican movement, that's not here yet. And this sort of strikes a different tone, where it's not so much like we hate what George Bush is doing, we hate the Iraq war, we hate everything that's happened to us. It's more like, hmm, things aren't great at the moment, and that's just very sad, you know, this is just a sad thing to reflect upon, yeah, I always like that in a song, this is something that I really liked in all the things

she said, you know, where you pose an issue to the listener, of like, this song is about this, and I'm not trying to solve it. It's just really sad. And that's what this song does. And I definitely do knock a point off. I completely agree with you, Rob. I do knock a point off for this whole thing about characterising it just as love, you know, as the point of it. I think that's a bit of a cop-out.

But you have to cop out to some extent, because there are no easy answers to the questions that are raised in this song. I guess the other thing as well is I just think it's a really nicely put together song it's really catchy it's got a lot of bits that you know are very very quotable i think almost everyone not just i know you said about the chorus but i think almost everyone could probably recite the first few lines of the first verse as well that they have that sort of instant memorability factor to them as well. I think it's kind of iconic for a reason because there isn't really anything else at this time that is exactly like this and it really does have a sense of time

and place about it. It helps of course that I actually started high school while this song was number one so it kind of is associated with quite a big change in my life. it felt like an era was starting and this is a sort of stake in the ground of what this era is and what the world is like at this time but um yeah it really kind of resonated far more than i expected it to i don't like love it and i agree that some of the lines are really clunky that it's it's all a little bit leaning towards easy kind of popular racism sometimes which it shouldn't be doing it kind of needs to commit to the seriousness of the topics um and i don't like that i think it's

a bit awkward in places but it's really really well put together as a song i think it's quite a bold statement of intent and i really wish that we got more like this from the black eyed peas because that you know they are pretty fun in the mid-naughties. We get Shut Up, which I love, Don't Funk With My Heart, which I really like, but then they just give up on any kind of seriousness whatsoever and thinking about the absolute nonsense that they put out in the tens. You look back at this now and it's like a different artist entirely.

And I like to think that this is their real personalities and this is the real heart of them coming out. So let's just remember this because, my God, we've got some crap coming up from them in the future. God, Andy, you're so 2000 and late. Last up this week is this. Eleven coffees, Ricky, they gon' play.

But late at night when I'm feeling blue, I sell my ass before I think of you. Seven hours since you closed the door. Started a diet, got a manicure. You raised your number for my telephone And if you call me I won't be at home Why'd you cry for the guy? Say goodbye, run away

Why'd you cry for the guy? Say goodbye, I said okay Okay, this is Hole in the Head by Sugar Babes. Released as the lead single from the group's third studio album, titled Three. Hole in the Head is Sugar Babes' ninth single overall to be released in the UK, and their third to reach number one, and it's not the last time we'll be discussing Sugar Babes on this podcast either. Hole in the Head went straight in at number one as a brand new entry, knocking Black Eyed Peas off the top of the charts. It stayed at number one for one week. In its first and only week at number one, it sold 59,000 copies, beating competition from Turn Me On by Kevin Little,

which got to number two, P.I.M.P. by 50 Cent, which got to number 2, PIMP by 50 Cent, which got to number 5, Maybe by Emma Bunton, which got to number 6, Mixed Up World by Sophie Ellis-Bexter, which got to number 7, and Bad Day by R.E.M., which got to number 8. When it was knocked off the top of the charts, Hole In The Head fell 4 places to number 5. By the time it was done on the charts, it had been inside the top 100 for 14 weeks. It was certified as silver in the UK in April 2015. Just running through those songs there, the song titles alone are bringing up very vivid memories now and I think this is around the time where

I actually, you know, my memories actually start to be memories as opposed to just kind of foggy old movies playing in the back of my head. Lizzie, Hole in the Head, Sugar Babes, how are we feeling about that? Yeah, another really good track from Net-A-Mania, I think. mania i think i'd say of all the the sugar babes number ones where they're the lead artists this is probably lowest in my ranking but that's not to say it's bad at all because it's still really good just it's let's say it's not as you know exhilarating as some of the others but um yeah i like this a lot it's got this you, you know, a lot like Round Round, especially. It's got the same sort of energy and like harmonies within there. It's got a really sort of vibrant, like upbeat sort of rhythm to it.

And I think, yeah, I think they're just, they really stand out at this time, Sugar Babes, and obviously would continue to do so. I think, yeah, this is a really good comeback single for them. And I'm obviously looking forward to later entries a little bit more, but yeah, this is good. Yeah, I agree with Lizzie. I'm not particularly effusive about it, but I do like it. I'm trying not to be too harsh, because it is a big come down from the

previous two i think but that's just because the bar was set very high um i've kind of been like really taken by surprise by both the sugar babe songs we've covered so far that um freak like me i i always did love that song but i never realized quite how much i love it until we covered it um and round round that was way better than I remembered, way more interesting than I remembered. And I really liked that one too. So I was kind of hoping that the same thing would happen with Hole in the Head. And I was disappointed to find that it's pretty much Round Round done again.

It's not a whole lot different to it. And it's kind of disappointing in that it sort of seems to rely on the formula of round round quite a lot, that it's got this kind of interesting kind of exhilarating is the word. Yeah, that's the right word. This sort of exhilarating kind of exotic stuff in the background that makes it feel like a really different kind of sound to a lot of the pop that's out there um and it does sort of does the same thing as round round with that um i think the thing it really needs to elevate it into something else and into something a bit more interesting is stronger vocals um this is the problem i've kind of expressed with sugar babes with each song we've covered so far is that

they're just a little bit flat i mean i don I don't mean flat in the off-tune sense. I mean, flat just, it's in a bit sort of bland. And it does need a lift, this one. I do like it though. I do think the formula they're following at this point is a really good one. And I still like this far more than I ever expected to when we started the show, because I've always been a Girls Aloud boy rather than a sugar babes boy but i've really liked all three of the songs we've covered by them so i'm wondering if that continues um i think you know it's becoming clear to me kind of what the difference in usp was that girls allowed are very much about like the fun factor whereas sugar babes are about cool basically they want to seem a bit more credible and a bit more mysterious and so they do songs that are a little bit more out there and because round round did that very successfully

if you're to do that again with hole in the head it feels less out there feels a little bit less interesting so i was looking for something a bit different this time but this is still really good um i just think it needs a bit of a kick in the pants just to sort of get it going a bit more, something to differentiate it from what we've heard before and stronger vocals. So I'm not, like, hugely in love with it. But it's decent, yeah. And I've still got quite a lot of goodwill for Sugar Babes.

So, yeah, it's, like, probably my least favourite of the week, but it's been a good bunch this week. So, yeah. Okay, yeah. probably my least favourite of the week but it's been a good bunch this week so yeah okay yeah I feel kind of similarly to both of you although I thought I would have more to say about this but I don't I like this just about as much as

Are You Ready For Love for similar reasons actually in that I sit and appreciate this a lot but find myself realizing over and over that i connect more emotionally with the artist's other material um i think this kind of atmosphere in hole in the head suits sugar babes kind of like dispassionate like i could be literally anywhere else but talking to you kind of attitude, which I really like that they have behind the mic. There's a lovely sway and kind of click to the chorus as well, and I think this would have gone over very well at the time

if Girls Aloud had actually been given something like this. But I think I get a little lost in the narrative of the song, and not really in a good way, I think it starts out with a really good image and feeling of a breakup, where, you know, it's chain drinking coffees and watching American talk shows on repeat, and deciding on impulse to start a diet and get a manicure, and all the little things that you do in the immediate aftermath of a breakup to try and make yourself feel like a new person or a better person or something, but then it moves into kind of vague images of partying and then, like, the guy turns up and he comes back and the sugar babes kind of turn him down at the end and stuff, which kind of, you know, like I say, it suits that kind of

personality that they have behind the microphone, they're like, um, whatever sort of thing, you know, but the second half is not as evocative as the first, and I don't think it's as focused either, that third verse, it seems to go off, it meanders to odd places, where it feels like they can't land the melody in a particular place, especially the bits where it feels like they can't land the melody in a particular place especially the bits where it's like the because you get the through with it over it this crazy shit i'm having you know that bit but then it's then it you think oh it will launch back into the chorus now but it doesn't it just kind of fades into this just because you made me go oh doesn't mean i make it with you or something and it just't, it feels like that bit of the song is a bit,

it's hard to tell where it's going and not in a way that feels exciting. It feels more like in a, oh, they should have just cut this kind of thing. Still, though, if this is a low ebb for Sugar Waves, then we are in the presence of a very special pop group as far as I'm concerned. And we get to come back to them three more times and two of them are songs I adore so I'm really looking forward to those but I think yeah if this is a low ed this is still like oh my god this is still more than listenable and it's very different to quite a lot of the pop that's around at this time I think the thing that's kind of striking

maybe it's just kind of rose-tinted specs kind of looking back at the charts when I was a kid, but it feels like the variety of genres that get to number one around this time, yeah, okay, there's a problem because there aren't many CD single sales, actually, you know, I think 2003 and 2004, that little period just before digital downloads start getting counted, is like the lowest point ever for single sales, where like, I think there's a song that we have in the first few weeks of 2005 that gets to number one based on about 20,000 sales, and to this day is still the lowest single week sales slash units for a number one single but because the charts are moving so quickly it means that lots of different things are kind of

happening at once there isn't for better or worse um i think that largely because of social media and streaming the charts have kind of homogenized people aren't divided by scenes anymore you know like the one thing i'm you know the negative side of having so much diversity in terms of genre in the charts is that a lot of people are being quite snobbish and are quite mean about scenes that they're not part of like you know if you're a popular kid you hate moshers and if you're a mosher you hate posers and if you're a poser then you hate you know so that's that stuff kind of feels like it's been broken down and diluted a little bit by um streaming and stuff but i think the one of the slightly negative

effects is that i feel like the and i'm feeling it really keenly um during this particular period which is just this week we have had a kind of unearthed post-disco soul hit from the 70s some kind of mainstream launch of a relatively conscious hip-hop group who are about to become one of the biggest pop acts of the 21st century and xenomania kind of doing this kind of cool dispassionate but very interesting pop and stuff and that's just all you know in this week and then i mean i don't know as well i mean i won't i won't spoil next week's songs but next week's songs are another three that are completely different to each other and all completely different to anything this week as well. And it's probably last week as well.

We had Crazy in Love, followed by Daniel Benningfield's Sludge, followed by this sort of Blue Cantrell kind of half reggae, half chill-out kind of track. These are all very, very different songs, I agree. I've never been bored this year so far. There's never been a week where I've been like, oh, things are a bit slow. And we've had that, especially in 2001,

and a little bit in 2002 as well. But this year, there's just something different all the time. It's really good. I really like that. Yeah. Right, okay. Do we have anything more to say about Hole in the Head it's really good I really like that yeah hmm yeah right okay do we have anything more to say about Hole in the Head

by Sugar Babes no erm right so now it's time to check just before we bring the episode

to a close just time to check whether Are You Ready For Love belongs in the vault for any of us so I'm saying no but it just misses out.

I'm saying yes. It's going in for me. Yeah. Lizzie, how about you? Yeah, not quite for me. Cool. Where Is The Love by Black Eyed Peas. No, not quite, I'm afraid. I really thought about it just because it's quite a moment in time,

but I don't think it's good enough, I'm afraid, no. Lizzie, what about you? No, not for me either. No, not for me either. Okay, last then. Hole in the Head by Sugar Babes. It just misses out on the vault for me. Only just, though.

No, not for me. No, no. No, me neither. All right then then so next time when we come back we'll be covering the period between the 26th of October

and the 22nd of November god they say that years get quicker as you get older but as this podcast gets older Jesus

we're flying through 2003 feel like we've not even had time to sit and think about it thank you so much for listening to this week's episode. I'm really looking forward

to next week's. We'll have a Hits 21 First next week, so not to tease you, but you know, wink wink. Make sure you catch whatever that Hits 21 First is. Thank you very much and we'll see you soon.

Bye bye.