Hits 21 - 2004 (1): Michelle McManus, LMC vs. U2, Sam & Mark

Episode Date: June 25, 2023

Hello again, everyone, and welcome back to Hits 21, the show that's taking a look back at every UK #1 hit single of the 21st century - from January 2000, right through to the present day. Twitter: @Hits21UK Email: [e-mail]

Hi everyone and welcome back to Hits 21 where me, Rob, me, Andy and me, Lizzie all look back at every single UK number one of the 21st century from January 2000 right through to the present day. If you want to get in touch with us you can, you can find us over on Twitter. We are at Hits21UK that is at Hits21UK and you can email us as well. Just send it on over to Hits21Podcast at gmail.com. Thank you so much for joining us again after our short break

and our bonus episode about Miami 7. Now, we are entering a new year. We're going to be looking back over the next few episodes at the year 2004. This time we'll be covering the period between the 1st of January and the 21st of February of that year. 2004 is a very important year for me in terms of my involvement with pop music and so I'm very excited to start getting through it. I've realised, as I've been compiling research for this episode

and putting notes together, that my memories of little things are much clearer now than they were even two years ago. So, hooray for me. But also, I don't know, I'm a little worried about the episodes running long because I have more to talk about. But, as always, we are going to give you some news headlines from around the time that the songs in this episode were number

one and then on to the music. Harold Shipman, a former GP believed to have killed more than 200 people, is found dead in his prison cell. Shipman had hanged himself. His body was only claimed by his family after a year. Meanwhile, the BBC cancels the appearance of Coca-Cola sponsorships on an episode of Top of the Pops over fears that it would be advertising junk food to children. Meanwhile, a group of Chinese cockle pickers are killed in Morecambe when they fail to make it back to shore in time to escape rising tides. While 15 people survived, 21 were killed, while two were missing presumed

dead. It was later discovered that many of those picking cockles could not speak English and were inexperienced. A Chinese gang master was found guilty of manslaughter and sentenced to several years in prison. And over in America, the New England Patriots defeat the Carolina Panthers by a score of 32-29 at Super Bowl 38. However, the game is remembered more for the apparently controversial halftime show, in which Justin Timberlake, performing his song Rock Your Body with Janet Jackson, rips off a part of Janet's costume, accidentally revealing her right breast,

which most people have. And we realised that the world was full of big babies. And also, we unintentionally gave birth to YouTube, so at least some of it came of it. Poor Janet. And the Chinese wardrobe malfunction as well.

Yeah, true, true. I know it's a very early point in the episode to stop but we could have a whole episode on this almost because this is like a weird kind of big cultural reset of the time that it only sort of I only sort of realised when I got older that everybody really gave Janet Jackson so much

dick for this for the crime of someone else ripping her top off and you know, even so, women have breasts, it's a thing, it's just absolutely appalling that it happened, I feel like it's one of those incidents that absolutely no one

looks good out of and it's a real sign of the times At the top of the UK box office after top of the UK box office, after Lord of the Rings, Return of the King's five-week run, Scary Movie 3 is then at the top of the box office for three weeks. Then it's a week each for School of Rock and cheaper by the dozen. Robert Kilroy Silk resigns from his BBC One talk show

after making controversial remarks against Arab people in a Sunday Times column. The comments which claimed that Arabs murdered more than 3,000 people on September 11th and danced in the hot dusty streets. That comment received significant criticism from MPs and Muslim advocacy groups. And ITV announ bradley walsh will be joining coronation street while kerry katona who was married to brian mcfadden at the time wins the third series of i'm a celebrity get me out of here as she fended off competition from the following jenny bond peter andre lord brockett Andrew, Lord Brockett, Katie Jordan Price, Alex Best, who was George Best's ex-wife,

John Lydon, Neil Razor Ruddock, Diane Modal, who was an Olympian, and radio DJ Mike Reid, who has beautiful breath. If you know, you know.

That is stacked, isn't it? Yeah, I mean, they don't have lineups as good as that anymore. No, no. I remember that top five. I was really into this series as a kid. I remember that top five. And I think, I guess the main thing is that it gave rise to Katie and Peter. Yeah, watch their space. Kerry and Brian were a big thing of the time as well

we'll perhaps get more into them as the year goes on yeah maybe andy how are the album charts looking at this present moment yeah it's exciting starting a new year on the album charts i think i had it in my head that it was going to be all change fresh batch of albums and it's not unfortunately um we don't actually get a new album at number one until nearly the end of the month because the first couple of weeks are dominated by last year's biggest hits one of which was Friday's Child by Will Young which spends the first week of the year at number one and then Dido comes back to number one for two weeks with Life for Rent. That huge, huge hit from last year, the biggest selling album of 2003,

still at its height at this point. So the first new number one album of 2004 for three weeks going six times platinum is Call Off the Search by Katie Melua. And if you've got nothing nice to say then maybe don't say anything at all that's what my mum told me I'll just leave it at that

so yeah that spends three weeks at number one very very big success and that's followed by Nora Jones with Feels Like Home once again I'm going to be polite and say nothing, that spends two weeks at number one

going four times platinum so not quite as big as her previous release but yes it's a busy busy start to the year and then Katie Mellower gets back in with another three weeks at number one so six weeks all in all covering pretty much all of this period that we're covering yeah

and Lizzie how are things in America? So in the UK, we've got Nora Jones and Shakin' Nora Jones. What? Yeah. What a winter we're having. In America, OutKast held on to the number one spot until mid-February with their 2003 Christmas number one, until they were eventually replaced by Outkast,

who scored one week at number one with The Way You Move. It's only the sixth time an artist has replaced itself on the top spot of the Billboard Hot 100, but it only got as high as number seven in the UK in March 2004. God damn it. Wow. That thing about an artist sorry that thing about an artist replacing themselves at number one

I believe that had only happened once in the UK I think it was the Beatles did it at some point and then it happened again in like 2015 I think with Justin Bieber so it's really rare over here not quite as rare in the US. I think Elvis manages it next year

because they're re-releases aren't they and they're not new singles I know that there is a rather famous incident of an act replacing itself at the top of the US charts in 2009 which we'll get to in

five years time Oh yes So after that, Twister scored Which we'll get to in five years' time. Oh, yes. So after that, Twister scored his first number one single with Slow Gems, which was also the first number one single for Kanye West and Jamie Foxx, who both featured on the track. I had no idea that was a number one over there. Oh, that's cool. Yeah, yeah.

It was Twister's only number one, however, and it got stuck at number three in the UK in April 2004, but still a decent showing. Hmm. Yeah. So moving on to albums. In the albums chart, the first three weeks of the year was a back and forth between two previous number ones,

which were The Diary of Alicia Keys and Speakerboxx slash The Love Below. That was eventually broken up by Josh Groban, who scored his first US number one album with Closer. Despite going five times platinum in the US, the album only got as high as number 91 on the UK albums chart. I'm sorry, Josh. Better things will come, I'm sure. But in the meantime Speakerboxx The Love Below would then

return to number one for two more weeks before giving way to Kamikaze by Twister it stayed at number one for one week and was eventually certified platinum in the US but it only got as high as number 19 on the UK albums chart in august 2004 despite a young me buying the album for my holiday that same summer because i really liked slow jams sorry i couldn't i like that you say i like that you say despite me yeah like you know that one unit counted for so much yeah i've got i've got more sway you know right, thank you both very much for those reports. Okay, so at the end of 2003, obviously Gary Jules and Michael Andrews' cover of Mad World

was the Christmas number one, and that extended into the first few weeks of 2004 as well because nobody was buying any new music and nobody was releasing any new music and nobody was releasing any new music but so okay so the first new number one of 2004 are we ready to start a new year everyone yeah it's 2004 let's all wear burberry and go watch spider-man 2 yeah buzz into k4 so the first number one of the year is this. This time yesterday I thought I was gonna die

Standing at the edge Of my ordinary life Now I'm looking far ahead I only see clear blue skies I hope this feeling lasts me Until the end of time I don't see the things that bring me down Like I used to, no

There were times we felt like giving up But we came through. All this time, we've come a long, long way. I've waited a lifetime for today. I'm praying this will't always be the same All this time When everyone else said I was wrong You gave me a reason to be strong You gave me the will to carry on All this time

Okay, this is All This Time by Michelle McManus. Released as the lead single from her debut studio album titled The Meaning of Love, All This Time is the second single released by Michelle McManus in the UK after her involvement in the Idol's Christmas single Happy Christmas War Is Over in 2003. But it is her first to reach number one, and also her last. All this time went straight in at number one as a brand new entry, knocking Gary Jules and Michael Andrews off the top spot. It stayed at number one for three weeks. In its first week at number one it sold 118,000 copies, beating competition from Milkshake by Kelis, which got to number 3,

and Somebody to Love by Boogie Pimps, which got to number 5. In its second week at the summit, it sold 61,000 copies, beating competition from Take Me Out by Franz Ferdinand, which got to number 3. In its third and final week at the top, it sold 35,000 copies, beating competition from Comfortably Numb by Scissor Sisters, which got to number 10. When it was knocked off the top of the charts, All This Time fell two places to number 3. By the time it was done on the charts, it had been inside the top 100 for 11 weeks. The song was officially certified silver in the UK in July 2013. Oh, there's some big hitters being kept off the top there.

Well done, Michelle, I suppose. Andy, all this time, Michelle. Yes, so Michelle McManus. I mean, there's a few angles to come at this from, really. I think the song itself, Michelle as a singer, and then Michelle as a sort and then michelle as a sort of pop culture product are three kind of distinct things um that kind of got intertwined and it's it wasn't i get the feeling it wasn't a great experience for michelle um which we um

will probably dig more into i think between the three of us but yeah i mean starting with the actual song it's a bit rubbish really isn't it it's definitely setting that formula not the very first one but it's now really starting to set that formula of winners songs I think it's quite notable that this is the template for Geraldine McQueen's winners song that came out I think like five years later when Peter Caden got the pop factor it's based on this and Geraldine is based on Michelle it's like a pretty bog standard winner song chiefly notable I think for the first line which has kind of gone viral on TikTok over the past couple years and it kind of makes me laugh. That first line, which is really bad, I think, which is,

Woke up yesterday, thought I was gonna die. Which people use for like, if it's a bit too hot in the morning or like, you know, if I've got to get to work quickly or something like that. And I quite enjoy that as a meme. I mean, she sings it perfectly well and that was the thing with her on Pop Idol is that she's a decent singer,

but I don't think anyone would really go much further beyond decent and this song is like completely throwaway you know it has all the elements of a winner's single and she does a perfectly decent job with it but if this was not a pop idol winner's single this would not trouble the charts in any way like it's really generic really bland stuff. Solid kind of 4 or 5 out of 10 song. But obviously people aren't buying the song because of the song. They're buying the song because of Michelle.

And this effect, you know, obviously it applies to a lot of reality TV show acts, but I think particularly in these early days when we're so excited by this idea of regular average Joes off the street becoming megastars overnight. It's genuinely exciting and we want to buy into them. And I commented that Gareth Gates got four or five chances, absolute flop after flop in terms of quality, terrible singles that Gareth was putting out, that kept on getting number one and kept on really selling like gangbusters because people are excited and you're buying into the person more than anything. And that's the case with Michelle, I think, but I don't think

it's for a nice reason. Michelle was kind of made, well, not kind of, she was made fun of a lot for her weight and sort of poked fun as a bit of a novelty act of like huh she doesn't look like a pop star wouldn't it be funny if she was and sort of became the butt of every joke in 2004 because of that which is really gross and really horrible. The same sort of thing had happened to Rick Waller in the first series of Pop Idol as well. But I think it's like a combination of factors that it doesn't help that it was a really weak year on Pop Idol, that there was no other big stars that came from it. The runners up had a go at a pop career. And we might talk about that at some point. But other than that, it was a really quiet year for Pop Idol in the last year, obviously.

But other than that, it was a really quiet year for Pop Idol in the last year, obviously. And Michelle was the only one who really kind of stood out. And she stood out for a reason that, you know, isn't anything to do with her voice. And it just goes to show, really, that, you know, that these people are turned into products. It's like, right, what have we got? She's Scottish. She's got a nice personality. She's got a solid voice.

And she's overweight. So let's play on that. And it's really not nice. And it really makes me feel bad looking back that this kind of thing was considered fair game at the time. You know, she made some money out of it. She got a number one single. She's probably still plugging away doing like, you know, the old circuit of holiday camps and everything that they all do. And I hope she's made a success of it. But it's sad that, you know, she was kind of sort of put in the stocks and, you know, made us a kind of public spectacle in this way because it wasn't deserved.

And, you know, her voice is not anything spectacular. And she's kind of there for the wrong reasons. Like, I do think that she comes across as a nice person and the song is it's rubbish, but it's not like offensive. And I do wish the best for Michelle. I mean, this song is not it. I don't really like the song, but yeah. All my love to Michelle. She seems very, very nice. Yeah. All right then, Lizzie, how about you?

I think there is two discussions here. One about the song and one about the historic impact of this song, shall we say, in terms of its impact on British pop, like, even 20 years on. But I guess that's a separate discussion. I'll get into that in a minute.

But, yeah, this is... it's okay. Like, I did notice that this was co-written by Steve Mack and Wayne Hector, both of whom have already been covered extensively by us because they've been involved in pretty much every Westlife single we've discussed. Yeah, I mean, you can tell. Yeah, you can tell. You really can tell. Like, in a way, it does feel like a bit of a throwback to the late 90s

where you've got, like, the prominent, like, wah, wah, wah guitar sound and the vaguely trip-hop beat. Like, the best comparison I could come up with was Never Ever by All Saints but I'm sure there's a better one out there but it's that kind of thing which by 2004 like I mean it's okay it got to number one but it's a little bit old hat by this point but anyway aside from that it's a pretty standard winner's song, like you say, Andy. Like Michelle McManus herself does have a nice voice and she manages to balance the more sultry verses with the belting chorus.

And she does what she can with the not very good lyrics. But like the song itself meanders a bit. You can feel that horrible key change coming a mile off and by which point i've thrown off my headphones in disgust like that photo of jose marino but like that's not michelle mcmanus's fault mind you like given what i've read about her pop idol victory this week you'd be forgiven for thinking that simon's cowl and Fuller intentionally set her up for failure by giving her nothing but dreary ballads, making her out to be the problem instead of the people making the decisions behind the scenes and reaping almost all of the financial benefits. Like even Pete Waterman and Louis Walsh were sticking the knife in before her career had even got started.

Then you've got the horrible tabloid comments about her winning because of the fat vote. It's like, piss off. It's maybe the earliest example of that sort of talent and reality show nastiness that would dominate UK TV for the next decade or so after this. Because, after all, Michelle McManus deserved better than that and she deserved better than this quite underwhelming song as well

yeah yeah I agree with you about the tabloid nastiness that there's this thing that I think they in the early days they sort of try and prod at particular issues, like Gareth's stutter, like Will being gay, and like Michelle's weight, and they're like, hmm, people like this, so let's just go for it. And by the time X Factor is in its stride, everything is fair game, like literally everything. I remember comments about like,

oh, have you heard that this person might have anorexia, or like, oh, this person might have fallen out with her mom or you know stuff like that it's like who the fuck cares like what's this got to do with their career and i think michelle is an early example of that where it's like well if we can just treat these people as basically like just treat them like crap and people will buy into it then let's just do more of that um yeah she's an early example of it because they played fairly nice with will and gareth and they didn't play nice with michelle at all um yeah a bit of misogyny in there probably as well yeah and like speaking of the x factor

it kind of the show came from the fact that michelle mcmanus won and simon cowell and pete waterman agreed that she probably shouldn't have done but it's like, it's a public vote. Like, what do you expect? People are going to vote for the person they like most on a television show. It's not like X Factor solved that problem of

bland, middle-of-the-road winners. Like, you know, Leon Jackson says hello. It's just it didn't solve that problem at all. So I don't know what, they're barking up the wrong tree there. Yeah. I think what they really want to say is that the public would still have the vote on the X Factor, but they want to be more explicit about the fact that Simon Cowell is the one making all the decisions.

So even if your favourite wins, you can't guarantee that they'll have much of a singing career because, well, they can just do this sort of thing where they give good singers turkeys. And, well, is it a surprise that she only had, like, one album? We get one later on in this episode, spoiler alert, they don't even get an album. No, it's true. I I think that like you were saying Lizzie about this being like a pretty landmark

moment for pop music in the UK where Simon Cowell is basically like well I've had enough of this I want my own empire and I want to be the person who pulls all the strings and makes the decisions and ostensibly the X Factor was a democratic voting process but we all know that's not necessarily

true because of course can be you know swung one way or the other by I mean I think as we'll talk about this more as we go along but I think what really made me sick of the x-factor was that like it is basically I mean not only is it pro simon cowell propaganda but it's also like propaganda for the various acts intercut with music performances yeah yeah and yeah so they could push the votes one way or the other um yeah okay so i ended up having more about this than i thought i would i i kind of i I was, you know, typing a couple of paragraphs, and then, like, I realized that it was, like, five paragraphs down, and then I realized that there were things I wanted to add to the previous paragraphs and stuff like that, so it just kind of kept going on, but to get it out the way, my thoughts on the song, yeah, like you two were

saying, it's a fairly middlingdling sort of boring winner song that's given a bit of character by a relatively unspectacular but affectionate vocal performance from someone who is very clearly a totally ordinary person who is slightly in over their head but is still giving it as much as they possibly can and i like that because it's like you can still hear the humanity underneath everything else about the song you know like it kind of reminds me a little bit of atomic kitten in that way and you know the sense that there's something slightly unpolished and imperfect and kind of normal about it um despite the mass coverage and how polished everything else is around it

which is the positive side of reality singing competitions, that the public can sort of democratically anoint someone and give them a better life. My only other comment, I guess, is that it feels a bit... You can kind of feel in the instrumentation that they wanted to do something a bit more hearsay. You know, like you were pointing out, Lizzie, with the wow, wow, wow, wow wow like guitar effect in the back

feels like something from the verses of pure and simple but and actually the theme to pop stars uses that yeah wow wow wow in the background quite a lot yeah and but it's all kind of drowned out by the continued success of westlife and you can see them thinking ah yeah we'll we'll just go with that we'll keep it safe you know we'll make sure that it sells um although you were talking before about the the kind of context that this song is released into and about the dwindling attention paid to pop idol even a year after the first series which is that obviously like will like his winning song was like it sold over a million in the first week and this one pushes a hundred thousand like it's still pretty big figures but like you're selling like a tenth

of the total from in terms of first week sales um not really sure i mean maybe i do know why that is and maybe that's or at least you know i have a good theory and this is where i kind of disappeared down the rabbit hole because i've actually ended up watching quite a lot of that pop idol or at least michelle's journey of it that's available uh YouTube, and the further in I went, the more I felt icky about this, because Michelle, like, she's 23 years old when she's singing this, you know, she's a young woman, she's in the prime of her life, you know, sort of old enough to deal with fame, but still young enough to still, like, put as much as she can into it, you know, like, she's not a little teenager or someone who's, you know, a mum now and, or you think, you know, a parent and is trying to think about other things

and kind of setting up, you know, different parts of her life and trying to think about settling down instead, you know, but, like, the lyrics kind of make her sound like she's already been done and dusted, but pop idol saved her, like, all these lyrics, you know, like, I thought I was gonna die, standing at the edge of my ordinary life, it's like a second chance at life, like, they're making her sound at least 30 years older than she actually is, like, she's this untrendy, finished, begging for an opportunity to start again has-been. When she's barely got started in the first place, and i've actually watched the final back this was going to be mark's lead single as well because they both performed it on the night

and michelle just gave a much better performance of the song i think but he himself was only 21 22 and the whole song kind of feels like a letter of thanks to pop idol and to simon cowell and simon fuller and like that wouldn't be particularly egregious on its own because all winner songs kind of sound like this where they have to dress it all in vague metaphors so as to not pat themselves on the back like too much about this but i think that in the context of everything that happened with Michelle just you know as soon as she steps in front of the cameras for audition they serve her up immediately to be eviscerated for her face and her voice and her image but mainly like you were saying Andy for her size like from the second she walks on in the auditions Dr Fox is saying to her

we need to have conversations about your image and Simon says if this was just a show about good singers you'd be straight through but this is called Pop Idol and that's where we have a problem Jesus Christ I went further through and looked back

at pop stars we're only 18 months on from Kim Marsh being reduced to tears by Nigel Lithgow, who said that she needed to lose weight. And you can kind of tell from watching live episodes and live shows and stuff that they didn't want her to win, even though of the nine live shows that there were of pop idol, Michelle won six and of all the people who come out of this show looking bad it's p waterman um as soon as she finishes her audition

he says you are not a pop idol you will never be a pop idol and there's this bit later on in the show where i think they're at boot camp and he holds up it's it's on youtube and you can find it thank god because if you couldn't pete waterman would be able to pretend that this never happened but he holds a picture of michelle up in front of simon like a polaroid thing and says how many people who look like that in the last 40 years have sold a million records and also and also michelle mcmanus is the only person i've ever seen put weight on during the competition and that shows her disrespect for the audience that's watching oh do you know that first thing really particularly

grinds my gears because that could be an opportunity for self-reflection from people exactly of like you know nobody of that size has had a number one record because you're not giving people like that chances you know it could totally be an opportunity for self-reflection but he takes it completely the other way oh that is disgusting horrible yeah it's a shame for michelle really maybe she was a bit of a trailblazer in this regard but it feels a bit like you know we're only two or three years away from beth ditto um of gossip uh being a bit of an icon and obviously now we have artists like lizzo who is all about like you know like being

like massively like body positive like as much as possible like i have a little cousin who is absolutely in love with her because of like how much she is so proud about the way that she looks um and the way that she is um and my heart really breaks for michelle because she idolized pete waterman when she finishes singing at boot camp um he says i like your voice you know that or something like that and she just beams from ear to ear and saying like it means a lot because obviously like pete waterman's like a legend of british pop for various reasons and all the while he's kind of saying this stuff behind her back and like and this song with michelle performing it thinking about it being like a thank you to the whole operation, that she should like be grateful for being considered unworthy. We'll talk about this more as we go through the 2000s, but that mid-2000s combo of reality TV and tabloid viciousness, I find it to

be so horrifying and utterly contemptible and like you know history only remembers this song as a statistic nowadays like an entry on wikipedia a number one single etc etc but reading back through all of this and kind of going through michelle's journey again kind of exposes how cruel the talent show reality show factory always was and okay you could argue that michelle was old enough to know better and maybe she knew what she was getting into because you know she's 23 and she has a head on her shoulders and she sang the song and she was happy to do it and she shares on instagram and stuff like the anniversary of her winning pop idol saying that her life changed forever and all of that but like the whole of reality UK TV was so new at this point

that the long-term effects wouldn't really become clear for another 10 years. It's all a bit lambs to the slaughter. And so Michelle, listening to this, it got me interested in what she is actually doing now. And like most talent show winners who were chewed up and spat out once they were no longer useful to Simon Cowell, she's making her money on the stage and doing radio um she performed at uh what's that festival that's been on recently the who what's it called now mighty hoopla she performed a few songs at mighty hoopla she's on radio 4 sometimes. She works with BBC Scotland and stuff.

But I just think back, it's lucky, I think, for Simon Cowell and for Pete Waterman and for everything that happened to Michelle, that she had the resolve and self-assuredness to kind of keep going through this and take it and turn it into a positive experience because if she wasn't that kind of person we could have been having a very different conversation right now about the legacy of this song and the legacy of how she was treated um you know she still performs this song and so you know with full sight we know with full hindsight it seems that michelle is really like eternally grateful to the song and all that for all the amazing things that she's got to do um over the years but there are few things more vicious than the 2000s tabloids with actual predators like max clifford hanging around

making your life terrible if you dare to be famous and slightly different and uh yeah and so i feel like the main point of criticism that michelle got was that she was fat and dared to win a competition like she dared to be talented and fat like those two things were mutually exclusive well there's another there's i think there's another aspect to this as well which is Like, she dared to be talented and fat. Like, those two things were mutually exclusive. Well, I think there's another aspect to this as well, which is, you've mentioned this, Rob, about those lyrics of standing on the edge of my ordinary life. And I think that, you know,

there's always been an aspirational quality to talent shows of like, oh, I wish that was me. But I think the really vicious thing about pop, well, not so much pop idol at this point but particularly x-factor the really vicious thing about it was that it really went heavy on that and had this implication about it that if you don't achieve fame and success in show business then your life is worth nothing that like those are the only people that matter that you know the

ordinary life that Michelle is talking about is something to be treated with disdain, that it's fame or nothing. And when you couple that with the fact that, well, she doesn't deserve that because she's overweight, it kind of comes across as the overall message of, well,

only certain people are allowed happiness. Only certain people are allowed any kind of validation in life. And it's deeply sinister. And it's a thing we were all conditioned to. And suddenly you get things like 10 years younger and fat families and stuff like that that's having that same aspirational quality to it,

which I use in quotes because it's not aspiration, it's bullying. And yeah, this is a very key touchstone in that mindset um coming into play tabloid television i guess yeah yeah good way of putting it well jeremy kyle as well that's i mean that's the ultimate tabloid television so yeah yeah i mean there's a whole conversation to be had about the tv of the blair era and how it kind of paved the way for legitimizing austerity and things like benefit street and tv shows like that um it was basically a chance to put working class people with no media training in front of the camera and then point out them like they're in a

zoo and then be like oh look at them what idiots so yeah um yeah and it does feel like michelle was kind of in that environment and she managed to kind of make it out and still have a decent life for herself yeah i mean which i'm very happy about full propster that she seems to have this personality of just being relatively unfazed by it and taking all these things on the chin and that is not easy, that deserves respect because it's an absolute lion's den

out there so yeah, she deserves full respect for that yeah, I have to say I have followed Michelle on Twitter and Instagram this week, just to see what she's doing and just to see what she's doing and just to keep up with her future developments now. I feel like I've really been transported back into her life.

So next up is this. guitar solo There's a boy I know He don't wanna dream but Look into my eyes Take me to the clouds above Take me to the clouds above Take me to the clouds above Take me to the clouds aboveCover fire

Taken to the clouds above Okay, this is Take Me to the Clouds Above by LMC vs U2. Released as a standalone single, Take Me to the Clouds Above is the first single to be released by LMC in the UK and of course their first to reach number one. It is also their last. The song is a mash-up and reinterpretation of both Whitney Houston's 1986 single How Will I Know and U2's 1987 single With or Without You. The vocals were performed by Rachel McFarlane. Take Me to the Clouds Above went straight in at number one as a brand new entry knocking Michelle McManus off the top of the charts. It stayed at number one for two weeks. In its first

week at the top it sold 69,000 copies beating competition from Run by Snow Patrol, which got to number 5, I'll Be There by Emma Bunton, which got to number 7, and Last Train Home by Lost Prophets, which got to number 8. In its second week at number 1, it sold 49,000 copies and beat competition from Here For One by Blazing Squad, which got to number 6. When it was knocked off the top of the charts, Take Me to the Clouds Above fell two places to number three. By the time it was done on the charts,

it had been inside the top 100 for 15 weeks. The song was officially certified platinum in the UK in July 2022. So just before we started the show. Lizzy, LMC and you two, how are we? I mean, yeah, again, it's all right. Like, I think it's kind of mediocre in a very different way to all this time. But yeah, it's like it's not unlistenable. Obviously, I think the strongest thing about it is Rachel McFarlane's vocal.

Like, she really gives it socks I'm surprised we've not got her coming up again because she feels like she'd be a fixture of like dance and trance and those kind of genres where you need a big vocal to put it over

to make an impact to get people to rush to the dance floor but in a weird way this doesn't feel like a to put it over, to make an impact, to get people to rush to the dance floor. But in a weird way, this doesn't feel like a club hit. It feels more like something you'd get on those Ibiza Chill Out compilations, just because it doesn't sound big, it doesn't really ever take off. It's not like... We've had some really obvious club bangers like um loneliness by tom craft or heaven by dj sammy where it's like this is obviously meant for that big takeoff moment in

the club where everyone just goes nuts and the strobe lights go off and yeah it's that big moment whereas this it's like maybe this was slotting towards like the end of the set when it's like it's trying to calm people down a bit or it's like if you're in Ibiza or something the sun's coming up and it's getting a bit late and everyone's a bit tired but other than that like you notice I'm not really talking about the song because there's not a lot to talk about it's a mash-up of how will i know and with or without you and other than a really good vocal performance by rachel mcfarlane that's about all there is like the adam clayton the bassist from u2 said it's a good beat and you can dance to it i especially like the bass line like I'm sure you would. You're the bassist for Q2. You basically

wrote the bloody thing. So modest. I know, right? But yeah, I don't mind this, but I don't have an awful lot to say about it, and it's not one that I'd find myself going back to very often either, I'm afraid. Yeah, Andy, how about you?

Well, I broadly agree But I like it more than you do Lizzie I just think Maybe it's because I'm coming at it from Well I don't know but maybe I am coming From a different view because did you know At the time that this was a mashup of those Two songs?

No I didn't know it was Because I saw LMC vs U2 And didn't know what that was about for years. And until I realised that the guitar line is bloody with or without you, of course. Yeah, well, I mean, I had no idea about it at all. I'd never heard How Will I Know at that age, so I didn't know that that part was a sample. And I, yeah, I clocked the name U2, so I assumed that the guitar was U2 in some way. But I didn't realise that that was, that whole thing was a sample. And I clocked the name U2 so I assumed that the guitar was U2 in some way, but I didn't realise

that that whole thing was a sample from With or Without You. So to me it was just an original song at the time. And I actually really liked it. I used to just think it was just a nice, friendly bop. And I still do, really. I think that there is a kind of...

I think I'm going to call upon you, Lizzie, to give us one of your patented genre namings, because we were talking about how, you know how you said it's not like club dance, like Heaven by DJ Sammy. But I think there's a particular category of like, all the girls from the office out on a Friday night after work, that's like something like this this something like you're a superstar Lola's theme that kind of stuff that's like just kind of nice chill out Friday party

vibes from the mid-noughties handbag house handbag house oh that's just lovely that is brilliant I think that is actually an existing genre so I can't take any credit for it but that sort of thing where it's just like sort of fun and friendly That is brilliant. I think that is actually an existing genre, so I can't take any credit for it. Well, I really like that.

But that sort of thing where it's just like sort of fun and friendly. I agree about Rachel McFarlane's vocals. She's really good. Oh, yeah. It might be sort of sacrilege of me to say, but I think she actually does better vocals than Whitney on those lines, to be honest. I think with the with or without you aspect of the song,

it's not needed at all. That's just kind of like incidental that, yeah, okay, it's in the same key, it doesn't get in the way of the song, so it fits, but that doesn't mean that it adds to the song, it doesn't mean that it's needed. But I do like this sort of thing,

I do like these kind of mashups. Freak Like Me, obviously, was a fantastic example of that, and this is no Freak Like Me obviously was a fantastic example of that. And this is no Freak Like Me. But I do like the idea. And I think the use of Take Me to the Clouds Above that line really works. The use of How Will I Know

really, really works. I could do without the Take Me to the Clouds Above Clouds Above, Clouds Above. Because it just reminds me that at some point dubstep is coming. That it's a kind of early harbinger of doom there. And I hate that sort of thing. But no, otherwise, I really like it.

It's got a nice fresh sound to it. It's not the greatest song in the world. I don't rave about it. But I do listen to this from time to time. If it comes on, I don't skip it. Yeah, better than all this time. Definitely my favourite song of the week. Yeah, it's like not spectacular,

but I think I like it more than you do, Lizzie. I'm relatively fond of this, yeah. Andy, what you just said about that clouds above bit, it's just reminding me of like the most niche thing. On YouTube, there was a version of, you know, Firework by Katy Perry? Yeah. But someone had just replaced all the ends of the lines with the words plastic bag

oh I've seen that baby you're a plastic bag plastic bag I've just remembered there was one other thing just about the structure of the song I wanted to mention as well which is that you see this all the time that influence of

I know it's a very different song but that influence of One More Time from Daft Punk of like in the middle it stops and there's no percussion and you just do it like bare bones and there's so many songs from the early and mid-noughties that are ostensibly dance tracks but then just stop for the

vocals and and a synth pad underneath it and nothing else but One More Time does so incredibly and this song, it's absolutely carbon copy of that and there's been loads and loads of other songs throughout the decade that do that and I always like to see it because it's just a nice

touch but no one ever does it better than Daft Punk does but yeah so that's yeah that's all for me really i like it i don't love it but i like it yeah i i find this i don't know just i went into this thinking i'd like it more you know it's pretty and it's tuneful and it has a great vocal performance and it has a keen ear for noticing you know that whitney houston and you two made decent bedfellows i guess on this track and like you know it's a decent mashup i just think like you andy it is over

reliant on that u2 sample when it doesn't even need to be there like it does get irritating after a while i think the just that on the higher string just the like it just every time i hear that i'm just like oh that's the pop idol intro isn't it yes it does sound a bit that way yeah but i think my main issue with it is that i find this to be so polished and pristine that i just kind of find it boring like i wish i had i wish i had a more analytical critique but that really is the long and short of it which is just that i'm like after about 90 seconds i'm sort of done like you know my partner was born in 97 and is less aware of pop music generally just because that's not really what motivated her as a kid and stuff you

know and plus she was only six seven when this was number one so like she doesn't remember it and so i've been listening to it this week and she's just sort of going is this one that you're covering like on hits 21 and i go yeah she goes oh right don't really expect anything like this to get to number one and it just I don't know every now and again I kind of look for her perspective on things about how like how things sound to someone who hasn't heard them you know like because obviously we have all these memories attached to these songs that kind of like fill in emotional gaps and things like that what we might not have if we'd never heard it and it feels like speaking to her she's just sort of saying like well what's the big deal and it's

what i think there are some songs where it's like yeah this will last and then there are songs where it's like you kind of needed to be there and i feel like this is one of those where it's like you just needed to be there um some good news about Rachel McFarlane, though. Come on. She is still performing. Ooh. She is based in the Manchester area. Ooh. And she does, like you say, singing at house nights and stuff like that.

Oh, nice. Nice. So in October, she did a night at uh the albert hall in manchester so this is october 2022 um with some live djs um some other vocalists um you've got uh steve edwards who's another singer i think um did vocals for um what was his name now the uh world hold on said i'm messing with our future open up inside world hold on oh god what was his name not oh bob sinclair bob sinclair that's it um and so yeah she's still performing and singing and she recently performed at I say recently, late last year she performed at a Winter

Pride event in Spain Sorry, in Gran Canaria I went to Gran Canaria the day after Winter Pride, so I nearly saw her Oh my god! She's passing in the night there. So, yeah, I'm kind of

glad that we have it out of the way, but I prefer it to all this time, just about. I just have way less of an emotional reaction to it overall, I think. Yeah. I get that, yeah. Do you think it kind of shows its hand

too early as in it gives you everything up front and that's just it there's no like variety in it yeah but the upside of that is that it's got you straight away and like if it comes on the radio it's like yeah you know it's got you quickly so I see

the reasoning behind doing that but I do agree that yeah if you sit and listen to the whole thing And go out and buy the single Then you get everything played straight away But I see why they did it that way I get that maybe that's the chill out room vibe of it It comes on and it feels like a warm hug But that's about it really

In terms of just a pop song It's fine last up this week is this What would you think if I sang out of tune? Would you stand up and walk out on me? Lend me your ears and I'll sing you a song And I'll try not to sing out of key I get by with a little help from my friends I get high with a little help from my friends. I get high with a little help from my friends.

I'm gonna try with a little help from my friends. What do I do when my love is away? Does it worry you to be alone? How do I feel by the end of the day? Are you sad because you're on your own? And I get by with a little help from my friends And I get high with a little help from my friends I saw a ghost ride with a little help from my friends I'm gonna try with a little help from my friends

Okay, this is With a Little Help From My Friends by Sam & Mark. Released as a standalone single, With a Little Help From My Friends is Sam & Mark's first single to be released in the UK and their first to reach number one. It is also their last. The song is a cover of the Beatles' original song, which was first released in 1967. This is the third time the song has reached number one, after Joe Cocker's cover in 1968 and Wet Wet Wet's cover in 1988.

With a Little Help From My Friends went straight in at number one as a brand new entry, knocking LMC vs U2 off the top of the charts. It stayed at number one for a brand new entry knocking lmc versus you two off the top of the charts it stayed at number one for one week in its first and only week atop the charts it sold 43 000 copies beating competition from she believes in me by ronan keating which got to number two movie star by stereophonics which got to number five and It Takes Scoop by Fat Man Scoop which got to number nine. When it was knocked off the top of the charts with a little help from my friends dropped one place to number two. By the time it was done on the charts it had been inside the top 100 for 14 weeks. The song has never received any official certification from the British phonographic industry. I'll take this one first because

I have virtually nothing to say. It sounds like what you would expect it to sound like if you imagined two cheeky early noughties lads who had been assembled into a duo after Pop Idol had been given a relatively updated version of With a Little Help From My Friends to cover. I was struck by the plasticky fuzzy bass thing that's going on.

And that's it. I really don't have anything else to say. I'm not going to put it in the pie hole or anything like that, but what else is there to say? Well, Rob, if you're really struggling and you're just struggling to fill time, then I guess you're just going to have to get by with a little help from your friends. Hey!

Woo! This is what we're here for. Do you need anybody? You just need someone to talk. Could it be anybody? Well, I want Lizzie to talk. Just a weird thought, actually. Is this the first time we've had

three, basically three one-hit wonders? Yeah. Well, I don't know if it's the first time, but they are definitely all one-hit wonders. Yeah. Well, I don't know if it's the first time, but they are definitely all one-hit wonders. Yeah. At least in terms of solo hits, because obviously Michelle had that one at Christmas, but yeah. I'm going to come back to you on that one.

Yeah, I'm going to have a think about that one, but yeah. I mean, yeah, this isn't... It's not terrible or anything it's not good but i've definitely heard worse like with michelle earlier i feel like the song choice here does them no favors in the long run because i can't think of any artist whose pop career has kicked off with a beatles cover and survived beyond a year or so like the only other example I can think of and Rob you'll know this one is Candy Flip in 1990

yeah you say that but what did Candy Flip cover? Strawberry Fields Forever yeah I remember that cover I know that they do a sort of oh how to describe it what they do to, they do a sort of, oh, how to describe it,

what they do to it. It's a sort of like E17 version. Yeah, like a rave version. Yeah. It's rubbish. It's really bad. It's not very good.

Yeah, they lasted about as long as Sam and Mark did as a chart concern, which was they had one top ten hit, one sort of lower reaches of the chart song, and then nothing.

And at least Candy Flip got an album. As I said before, Sam and Mark didn't even get an album from this, which is baffling because they were, like, what, two and three on arguably the most popular talent show in the country at that time you'd think maybe they'd want to take a bet on that like what have you got to lose and they got a number one so there must be something there yeah like and i know they're obviously more successful as tv presenters so much so that i wouldn't be surprised if people didn't even know that they were on Pop Idol as two separate singers,

let alone had a number one. So, like, I was too old for them by the time they had their CBBC shows. That might be more familiar to you, Rob, or your partner. Yeah, I loved Sam on Pop Idol. I remember really liking Sam and wanting him to win, and then I was really sad when he didn't, really liking Sam and wanting him to win and then I was really sad when he didn't but then I did watch their kind of like you know Dick and Dom at Home

kind of TV show and I don't mean Dick and Dom's Bungalow Home I mean you know Mum Says We've Got Dick and Dom at Home kind of show Yeah Yeah like from what I can tell they were pretty much the face of CBBC for at least a couple of years and

yeah I don't hear anybody talk about them nostalgically in the way that I hear people talk about, as you say, Dick and Dom or Tracy Beaker or even Hacker T. Dogg. Like, they're just not there. Yet they were there for about 15 years. Like, I'm sure they're lovely people, but there's something a bit anonymous about both them as performers and their performances

on this track and having the Beatles original to compare it to instantly makes this look like just a pale imitation and not much more. It's got the same sort of rickety plasticky production as Spirit in the Sky by Gareth Gates.

It's like, I don't know how to describe it, it's like goldfrapp at the circus. It's really ugly. I did have a bit of a quandary before, because I'm like, would I rather listen to this than the Joe Cocker version, which I really hate? I don't know. This is...

I think this is so preoccupied with not really trying to be anything that it probably wouldn't offend you that much. No, no, exactly. It's just so unbothered by itself. Although I will say, Lizzie, we're being a bit harsh on them here and we do have to remember that

they're just normal men. They're just innocent men. Men. Probably left that a little too long before making the hackatee dog reference to be honest I feel like I should have made it about 45 seconds ago and it would have made more sense Andy, how about you?

Yeah, small point of order based on Lizzie's question about One Hit Wonders wonders so this is the first time that every song we've covered this week um is a one hit wonder based on my view of it but it's not the first time we've had three one hit wonders in one week because back in the the crazy days where we did five songs in a week we did have um don't call me baby by Madison Avenue you see the trouble with me by Black Legend and It Feels So Good by Sonic were all

in the same episode. So we did have three one-hit ones that week but we also had some big hits. Sonic had a couple of big hits afterwards but they just didn't stay around very long. Yeah, so that's the closest. So maybe this is the first time then. Yeah. Well, this is the first time that all of the songs

have been one-hit wonders for sure. yeah uh because sanik had a number two single in 2000 yeah i feel like she maybe squeaks out of that yeah i was being harsh on sanik here but i i have a different question to ask um to get right back here for that one so is this the first time that we've had a beatles cover um i can't think of another oh there is, there is another one. Long and Winding Road. I knew there was another one. Of course. It was in the back of my head somewhere. You're always playing with fire if you do a Beatles cover, aren't you?

You're not going to do it better than they did. You're not going to do it half as well as they did. And Sam and Mark certainly don't. I hate the production on this. And their vocals are like just, oh my gosh, the safest, blandest, most generic vocals ever. And as for them themselves,

they do seem like perfectly decent guys, but it's quite clear what they're trying to do. They're trying to be the next Dick and Dom, but it's like if you bought Dick and Dom at Aldi, that's what they are. And just, I'm sure that they were nice guys, and I actually do respect them for the fact of seeing how this all works and seeing the writing on the wall from the start of like,

okay, we've not won, so let's find something else to do. Let's get ourselves another job in the media because that's how this all works. And they were one of the very first to do that of like well let's just forget about that you know let's launch ourself as a group and you know we're gonna have a hit single but let's also do kids tv and stuff like that they are one of the earliest examples of like diversifying away from um singing but obviously they've not done that yet. Yeah, this is a load of crap as a song.

I really don't like it, but it does have some funny aspects to it. One of which is this video, which, by the way, is definitely filmed in the Dragon's Den studio. It is! Dragon's Den hasn't started yet, so it's not their fault, but it's definitely, definitely the Dragon's Den building. Because you'd recognise it anyway. It's got those stairs on the right, and it's got the square windows at the back,

and it's this big empty space. So they've got this video where they're moving in together and just kind of looking at each other, nodding their heads, like, yeah, two bros. Bros being dudes moving in together. Definitely not gay. They're such good friends. And, like, friends, bros being dudes moving in together. Definitely not gay. They're such good friends. And like friends, but only friends.

And it's like, yeah, there's a big, big gay vibe happening here. Like just get off with each other already. Like I feel like we're watching the start of the movie where that happens. And just like it's quite awkward positioning for them because like, yes, they're two guys and obviously you want to kind of get the teenage girl market so the last thing you want is for them to come across as gay but it's like so then why did you pick a song about how close they are to each other and have a video where they're moving in together it's like usually like if

you want two bros to seem like bros then don't depict them cohabiting like that's just seems like common sense to me um but it's sweet i kind of ship them as a couple to be honest but anyway yes um the other thing about this is just yeah that production is just so heavy where it's like right over the top of this song and you know I'm not a huge fan of the original it's nice but it's on Sgt Pepper and it's a really really high bar and I do like it but it's probably one of the least favourites of

mine off Sgt Pepper but this version makes the original look like an absolute masterpiece because this just stomps all over it and puts this really heavy percussion and heavy bass all over it which isn't necessary at all

and got all these fancy vocal runs which it doesn't need at all because it's supposed to be quite a simple song about a simple thing and they totally ruin it with that yeah one thing I did notice is that there's other Beatles things in there.

They do the thing from Strawberry Fields in the first verse, and that's in there in the background as well. Oh, yeah, yeah. Which is really weird. So there's like a general kind of paying tribute to the Beatles thing in 1967. There's a general sort of thing with that as well. But I've really run out of things to say about this, to be honest, just like the two of you have that,

like it's crap, but I can kind of see where they were coming from with it and respected them for launching a career off the back of it because they did better than most do. But the only other thing I'm thinking about is, you know, what if this had happened in other years of other talent shows and the people who came second and third did a duet other people

sang together i personally would quite like to have seen jls and owen quigg attempt something yeah that would have been quite fun um andy abraham and journey south that might have been tabby from the first year of x factor yeah tabby and Rowetta. It would be. Rowetta now of the Happy Mondays. That would be fun. So yeah, as you can see,

I've very much run out of things to say about it. It's not like the worst song we've ever covered, but it's a proper tacky, made-in-five-minutes, awful, stupid cover where they're definitely not gay, but they live together in Dragon's Den and that's fine I've never said that sentence before so that's fine

well before we go we just need to check whether any songs from this week are going to be going into the pie hole or into the vault so All This Time by Michelle McManus not for me no me no into the vault. So All This Time by Michelle McManus. Not for me. No. No.

Me, no. Take Me to the Clouds Above by LMC and U2. That's going nowhere for me. Not for me either. No. And I've already said that I'm not going to put with a little help from my friends anywhere in particular so up to you two. What about you Andy? I've just decided right now that I am going to put it in the pie hole.

Yeah. Oh. It's by a whisker. Sorry, boys. But yeah, it's rubbish. Putting that in the pie hole. Yeah. And Lizzie?

I'm sort of just imagining Andy, like, at the end of the video, like, Deborah Mead and like, sorry, I'm out. And then Levi Roots comes in with his guitar and sings a different song. Why can't we just have the Reggae Reggae Sauce song instead of this? I would have enjoyed that much more. A few years yet until we get that. Put some salmon mark on your dish. Yeah, I'm not putting it in the

pie hole. It narrowly avoids the pie hole just because we've had worse recently. Yeah, same. A question for probably the week in between. Is this the last Beatles song that we get as a number one?

What a great question. Is there some charity thing maybe at some point? Let's have a look at that. We'll have a look at that for next time. If you don't fancy Googling it in the week intervening, then just wait until we come back and we'll tell you.

So, that is it for this week's episode. Thank you very much for bearing with us while we just had a bit of time off in between years. When we come back, we'll be covering the period between the 22nd of February and the 13th of March 2004. So hooray, full speed ahead. So we'll see you soon. Bye bye. See ya. so we'll see you soon bye bye see ya It's getting hard to be someone but it all works out

It doesn't matter much to me Let me take you down, cause I'm going to lose You're a very fit And I think it's real Nothing to get hung about Strawberry feels forever