Hits 21 - 2004 (4): Eamon & Frankee

Episode Date: July 13, 2023

Hello again, everyone, and welcome back to Hits 21, the show that's taking a look back at every UK #1 hit single of the 21st century - from January 2000, right through to the present day. Twitter: @Hits21UK Email: [e-mail]

Hi there everyone, welcome back to Hits21 where me, Rob, me, Andy, and me, Lizzie, all look back at every single UK number one of the 21st century, from January 2000 right through to the present day. If you want to get in touch with us, you can find us over on Twitter. We are at Hits21UK. That is at H21uk. And you can email us too, just send it on over to hits21podcast at gmail.com. Thank you so much for joining us again. We are currently looking back at the year 2004.

This time, we'll be covering the period between the 18th of April and the 5th of June because it's a bit of a special episode. Not officially. Not officially a special or a bonus episode, but we'll get to it. I'm sure you can sort of work out what we're going to be doing this week. Before we get ahead to this episode, though, we're going to have to take a look back at last week. And I think it's a Hits 21 first because the poll winner was shared.

It was a shared victory for Usher and McFly. They both got 11 votes. Oh, wow. Usher streaked away with the Spotify poll, and McFly ran away with the Twitter poll, and Chacha Slide got one vote. Oh, sorry, Chacha. But hey, I shared

I'm pretty sure that's the first time that's happened. Not 100% sure. There are people out there who listen to our show who will know it better than I do and better than either of you two do because I've listened back to them maybe a few times and so maybe someone's recently listened to

a really early episode where it happened and I've forgotten. Well done to Usher and McFly. One other thing maybe someone's recently listened to like a really early episode where it happened and I've forgotten, but yeah, well done to Usher and McFly. One other thing I'd like to mention just from the past week or so is for those who've been taking part in the world cup of iconic noughties duos. First of all, thank you very much for that.

That's on our Twitter where you can vote in all those matches, but a really wonderful thing happened where there was a group match between for those who haven't been following it i'm basically just doing a world cup style competition with the best duos of the noughties and there was one where same difference were an option um and i don't really know how it happened but both members of same difference and their management and the band's official twitter all took part in that poll and voted for Same Difference, meaning they had a storming win. So thanks, Same Difference.

Weird to have so much attention from you, but that's a nice little throwback that seems very relevant to our podcast, so thank you very much for that. Aw, I kind of hope they don't hijack it, though. I still want the vote to be fair. I agree, I agree. It would feel a bit weird if we had a um a mandy winning record of the year style victory um would be what that

would be so let's see how that unfolds yeah well as always we are going to give you some news headlines now from around the time that the songs in this episode that we're covering were at number one in the UK. Piers Morgan is sacked from his position as editor of the Daily Mirror after it emerges that pictures it published on its front page of British soldiers apparently torturing Iraqi prisoners were in fact part of a hoax. The pictures, which claim to have been sourced from Iraq, were actually taken in Lancashire, and the gherkin officially opens in London. Maxine Carr, the partner of Ian Huntley, who lied to police during their investigation of the Soham murders, is released from prison under a new identity. As of 2023, she is one

of only four prisoners to have been granted lifelong anonymity. And in London, Fathers for Justice stages a protest as members throw purple powder at Prime Minister Tony Blair. And in football, Arsenal win the Premier League title without losing a single game, becoming known in later years as the Invincibles. Meanwhile, Manchester United win the FA Cup, beating Millwall 3-0 in the final And Jose Mourinho's FC Porto defeat Monaco 2-0 in the final to win the Champions League that year The films to hit the top of the UK box office during this period were as follows Kill Bill Volume 2 for two weeks

Van Helsing for two weeks Troy for one week And The Day After Troy for one week and The Day After Tomorrow for one week. BBC Two airs its last episode of The Simpsons which is the mockumentary season 11 finale, Behind the Laughter, and from that point

onwards The Simpsons would be broadcast on Channel 4. Aww I mean it's a good episode, Behind the Laughter it's a nice place to leave it for BBC Two, but that is a bit of an end of an era that, that it. It's a nice place to leave it for BBC Two. But that is a bit of an end of an era, that. That it used to be a nice little routine, six o'clock Simpsons on BBC Two.

I think that Behind the Laughter is not just a nice end point for the Simpsons on BBC Two, but just a nice end point for the Simpsons full stop. Yes, I agree. And Ukraine's Ruslana wins the 2004 Eurovision Song Contest with her song Wild Dances. The UK's entry, Hold On To Our Love by James Fox, who appeared in Series 2 of Fame Academy, finishes in 16th place with just 29 points. Wild Dances would eventually reach number 47 on the UK singles chart. Not a vintage year for Eurovisionists. I did actually watch it with a friend.

And we were just kind of talking over it. It was not great. You know, when people talk about how, oh, it's all political. The UK, doesn't matter what we do, we'll never get any points. And it's not that. It's about quality of songs.

Like, we always, always, like, enter terrible songs. This is the year i point to because people started going on about politics in this year and this was one of the most boring entries i think we've ever entered really just terrible and it starts a long run of terrible entries um so yes getting on my soapbox there it's not political james fox um is a perfectly nice guy but it was not a good song. No. Andy, how are the album charts looking in the UK during this little period?

Yeah, considering that it's a very short period we're covering this week, it's actually quite busy. There's quite a lot to talk to you about. We left last week with Guns N' Roses' Greatest Hits at the top, but that is unseated after two weeks at the beginning of May by D12 with D12

World, which was number one for one week and went platinum, single platinum. So just about squeaked it to number one there before Guns N' Roses' greatest hits returns to number one for one further week. Then it's followed by two weeks at the top by the second highest selling album of the year, which is Hopes and Fears by Keane, which went nine times platinum. Absolutely huge.

Nine times platinum. But I mean, it did have a lot of singles off that album. We never get a number one by Keane, but there are a lot of big north um big noughties indie hits off this album somewhere only we know everybody's changing bed shaped this is the last time big one hopes and fears yeah and a massive hit but not even the biggest album of this year which is still to come actually um and then we get two weeks at the top for Avril Lavigne with Under My Skin before Hopes and Fears returns to the top for another week,

and I will be saying that a lot. Hopes and Fears is in and out of that top spot for a while now, so it's a big Keen period. You might say that people were keen on Hopes and Fears by Keen. I like that album. It is good. I like that album. It is good. I like that one. I love it, but the songs that you mentioned, plus Bend and Break,

that would be like, if that was just an EP on its own, I would have a great, great, great time. I did Everybody's Changing at a gig once. It was really fun to do, actually. It's a really nice song. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of underrated, I think, these days.

Yeah. Am I right in saying that we do get a key in number one But not by them? Yes, yes, correct And I haven't forgotten that But none of their singles on their own ever get to number one And I think they appear on a number one later this year Lizzie, how are things in America?

Well Rob, I mentioned a couple of episodes ago That Outkast achieved something quite rare at the start of this year, being only the sixth time an artist has replaced itself on the top spot of the Hot 100. Fast forward three months later and this has happened again, with Yeah being replaced at the top spot by Usher's next hit, Burn. It stayed at number one for eight non-consecutive weeks in the US, and it also got to number one in the UK in July 2004, so we'll be discussing that a couple of episodes from now. Over on the albums chart meanwhile, Usher's reign at number one was interrupted for one week in mid

May by D12 and their album D12 World. It went double platinum in the US and also got to number one in the UK where they also scored a number two hit with My Band which was held off the top spot by the first song we'll be covering this week. Over to you, Rob. Okay, thank you very much for both of your reports from the album chart and from America and the first of two songs that we're going to

be covering this week is this No, no, no See, I don't know why I liked you so much I gave you all of my trust I told you I I loved you. Now that's all down the drain, you put me through pain. I want to let you know my fear. What I said, it don't mean now. The presents might as well come now. All those kisses, they didn't mean jack.

You, you, don't want you back. Okay, this is Fuck It and then in brackets, I Don't Want You Back by Amon. Released as the lead single from his debut studio album titled I Don't Want You Back, Fuck It, in brackets, I Don't Want You Back, is Amon's first single to be released in the UK and his first to reach number one. However, this is the last time that we'll be discussing Eamon on this podcast. Fuck It first entered the charts at number 46, reaching number one during its fourth week on the charts, knocking McFly off the top spot. It stayed at number one for four weeks. In its first week at number one, it sold 153,000 copies beating competition from, you just heard about it, My Band by D12 which got to number 2. In its second week at Top The Charts it sold 100,000 copies beating competition from This Love by Maroon 5 which got to number 3. In its third week at the summit it sold 79, copies beating competition from air hostess by busted

which got to number two and fit but you know it by the streets which got to number four in its fourth and final week at the top it sold 56 000 copies beating competition from an entire top five made up of new entries or the rest of the top five anyway so we got dip it low by christina millian which got to number two single by natasha beddingfield which got to number three everybody's changing by keen which got to number four and last thing on my mind by ronan keating and leanne rhines which got to number five when it was knocked off the top of the charts, Fuck It dropped one place to number two. The song initially left the charts in October 2004, but re-entered at a peak of 74 in 2013, meaning that it has spent a total of 24 weeks inside the top 100.

The song was eventually certified platinum in the UK. So, big deal, Andy, Eamon, I don't want you back. Yeah it's um it feels like quite a big responsibility put on my shoulders to open this here because it looks like all we're talking about this week is this whole phenomenon and it is the phenomenon of this and the other song we should say um which is going to kind of dominate what i talk about really because this whole thing is it's a very unique idea and it's a very kind of odd idea that we've never really seen repeated and that's why it got number one it's the idea behind it which is basically well mean, it's two things at once. And that's what I find interesting that I think it's kind of forgotten now.

When we look back with this and the Frankie song, F-U-R-B, as kind of one package, we look back on it that way. But it wasn't that way. And I remember when this was out and Frankie's song wasn't out. And this was already, as you can see from the fact it was so big at number one this was already a huge hit and that was mainly due to the fact that everybody seemed transfixed by these expletives um and particularly so i don't know if you had the same experience rob and lizzie um when i was in school that i didn't know what the swear words were because i i hadn't heard that version of the song i just heard the censored version. So it was this really weird broken up song,

which was, what you said, it don't mean now, the presence. Like it just, you're hearing half of a sentence really. And there was this big mystique about, what are the lyrics? What is it he's saying? Everybody assumed he was swearing. And then someone in the playground sung the whole chorus to me

and I was like, Jesus whoa and I think that's a novelty in its own right that it's so filthy in the choruses but I think what kind of makes it work and what makes it very funny is that it doesn't signal itself

as that kind of song straight away it doesn't come straight in with kind of song straight away it doesn't come straight in with a kind of like you know i'm trying to think of cupcake you know how cupcake like she always like every single lyric that she has is like extremely dirty and she'll do something in the first line so you'll know straight away what you're listening to so if you want to turn it off you can turn it off this has just got a normal verse that sounds like a kind of chill out um you know r&b thing that you could imagine being given to usher or someone or even enrique and then it suddenly turns into this absolute trash talk where he doesn't

hold anything back um and just the juxtaposition between the two is just it always shocks me of like it doesn't sound like it's going to be that at all. And I think that's probably the best thing about it. But I don't really like it as a song, partly because it's really repetitive. To listen to, it's really, really boring. It's just that oh, oh refrain, which is not particularly catchy the verses are really half-assed they're almost tuneless like he's just waiting to get to the chorus you can tell that that's the idea he just wants to get to that chorus and the chorus itself it's it's so full

of expletives that it kind of feels a bit childish like it just it's just silly i wouldn't want to be caught listening to this to be honest um amon's voice as well is quite shrill at times wouldn't want to be caught listening to this to be honest. Eamon's voice as well is quite shrill at times. Don't want to be nasty, so I'm not going to go any further than that, but it's not really to my taste. So I really kind of don't like this, but I do think it's actually

a good initial idea to really wrong foot people with, oh yeah, here's a gentle R&B song about a breakup that's suddenly like, you bitch! You know, that really turns into horrible horrible stuff it's a fun idea to kind of trick your parents to put it on in the car um and yeah i i kind of think you know i could see why it got to number one the whole phenomenon that came afterwards with both songs being combined and this whole story narrative you know that was created and out of nowhere basically seemingly without Eamon's knowledge and it's

important to get that in early that Eamon didn't know that was going to happen I kind of feel sorry for him in that you know this is his moment that kind of got a little bit taken away from him and got turned into this whole media story um i do like what he's coined this genre as which is ho-wop which is like some sort of combination of hip-hop and r&b with really offensive lyrics ho-wop um which is just great really really great idea um but it was only ever going to be a one- hit wonder this because first of all you can't repeat this trick again you'd always be expecting it to happen

so it wouldn't surprise you and if he ever did songs that weren't expletive ridden then you'd be underwhelmed it's sort of like listening to The Lonely Island isn't it that you listen to something like I just had sex and you laugh but then it's like okay well where do we go from there

they're never really going to hit singles are they like i do have a certain fondness for it in my heart because it was such a shocking thing at the time um and i can see why it got so big but as a piece of music it's really dull like i really don't like it and really badly produced as well the music video by the way is awful but not as bad as the next one we're about to talk about. So yeah, it gets an overall thumbs down for me but I appreciate what this is doing. It does still kind of make me smile

to listen to that over-the-top chorus. But yeah, I could live without this, to be honest. I kind of look back on cringe a little bit. Am I being too harsh? I don't know. I'll hand over the floor. Maybe I'm being a bit too harsh. Lizzie, is Andy being too harsh? No.

Thanks. I mean, just to follow up your point on school, by this point I was unshockable because I'd heard hot dog by Limp Bizkit, which has the F word 49 times in about three minutes. So yeah. With regards to this,

so I feel like I'd be a lot harsher on this if not for the next single we're going to cover. Like to clarify, I feel that in isolation, this song has the same problem as Who's David in that it's lyrically quite nasty and therefore difficult to root for the protagonist but combined with the response record you get more of a sense of two people with wounded egos who bring out the worst in one another and it's probably for the best that they're not in a

relationship anymore so like of the two I think this is marginally better. Like, Eamon's got an extremely whiny, unlikable singing voice, but in a weird way, I think that makes his performance more convincing. Like in this song, I definitely get more of a sense of someone who's trying desperately to appear as though they don't care about the other person, but that anger and bitterness can't help but seep through as the insults become more barbed and personal but yeah that's about as complimentary as I can get and even that seems pretty backhanded it's like I'm saying Eamon is a convincing shitheel and that's the best thing about the song.

But yeah, putting that aside, the production and the arrangement are both pretty lifeless, and the story Eamon tells is neither compelling nor relatable. And besides, if you don't want her back, why are you still here? Just walk away. It's over. I will say on that, that I i think the idea is that kind of self-aware about that you know like you're so vain where it's like you're saying you probably think the song is about you but the song is about him like you're not so above it all you know i think it's got that kind

of self-aware quality to it but like well if she's driving him this mad you know you must have some remnant of feeling in there you know i think it's kind of a bit self-aware of that okay so full disclosure just to let everybody know um because this is kind of like a half bonus half special episode that two month period where amon and frankie ruled the charts, etc. We were trying to secure Eamon to come on this episode because we knew we were going to have to dedicate this episode to the chart battle, so we couldn't discuss a third song. We didn't make room for it in the schedule, and our idea to fill that extra 15-20 minutes was to interview Eamon about all this.

So I shot him a message on Instagram literally like that, he was like yeah sure run it by my management, we'll get this sorted, sent an email to his management but it just nothing happens because in the end it's his management's job to keep Eamon away

from people like me who send emails so you know honestly like when I actually came to listen to this i'm sort of relieved that we didn't get him on god i think this is a bit rubbish yeah i feel the same i think we dodged a bullet there yeah it would have been hard to pretend that we liked it just to keep amon happy and receptive um my memories of this were a lot better than my recent experience with it. You know, the earworm hook, the general atmosphere of serious pain after a breakup, this idea that you're trying to convince the listener that like, oh, I'm over this, it's fine.

You know, like you're saying, like, who's David? It is very like, oh, yeah, I'm so over this it's fine it's you know like you're saying like who's david it is very like oh yeah i'm so over this totally and then everyone who's listening is going like ah mate are you really though you can tell us if you're not um i have this weird memory of it as a kid playing pool in a pub in landudno with my dad we were waiting it was on the tvs in the pub the the music video um and i thought it would be a nice i'd trip down memory lane of this time where me and my dad stayed in a b&b in london for a weekend uh but nah not really um like you lizzie i have also mentioned who's david in my notes because this is clearly meant to be a passionate melodramatic breakup song but it sort of veers over

the line into just petulance and mean spirited petulance and I think where I could forgive Who's David a bit more because I think it's it was unclear to me whether I was really supposed to sympathise with Busted on that song or just patronize them a bit.

And because I was more invigorated by Who's David's arrangement and the performance. With this, I do think that was supposed to feel sympathetic towards Eamon. But like you were saying, Andy, all the kind of childish cursing and like, oh, how many swear words can we fit into a song and still get it on the radio and i appreciate you know the the will to kind of make it sound a bit more dangerous than it is and like i always say make radio producers sweat a little bit about what they can and can't put on the radio edit and stuff like that um but the jibes just kind of get more pathetic and they land softer and softer as the song goes on like you're just another hack like i'm not really there's no there's nothing specific or personal about that you're just sort of

shouting words and they all land a bit softly for me um i don't hate this i can appreciate this being written and heard from a place of emotional turmoil when things aren't exactly clear about the future and you just want to yell and you want to get your feelings out but you know we've had the 20 year cooling off period and all i really appreciate about this is how i even managed to convince so many people to kind of get on board with this and buy it because of the whole gimmicky thing um with the you know cramming as many fucks and bitches and hoes and whatnot into the song um but that's about it like you know he has a number one single and I don't, and I would have kind of been interested to get, like, the true story about the background as to what happened

next, because at the time, he was sort of like, oh, um, yeah, we had, like, auditions, and then he also said, um, oh, me and Frankie used to go out, and then he said, I had never met her, like, her label just phoned me up and asked if they could do an answer song and I said yeah because I wanted the money and so like you know I think I think the last one is probably the most likely to be true um but we'll get into Frankie's version in a second I just yeah looking, looking ahead to this I thought, oh this will be decent and then the more I've listened to it over the past ten days and just like

ah, no it isn't, is it? I thought I was going to be forgiving of this but nope can't get it out of me really, unfortunately I completely agree, I wanted to like it I really did because it is quite a big thing to have happened in 2004.

And it's a thing that pretty much everyone still remembers. And probably with at least some fondness just because it was so funny. And it was so weird at the time for something like that to be happening. But I just couldn't conjure up any liking of this. And even less so for the next one Mild spoiler So yeah Andy, we had a conversation

I feel like it's about a year ago now Where the name Eamon came up And you said to me That you recall seeing him on This Morning Doing a song In about 2009 Yes And I kind of just wanted to put it out there to the listeners of like

does anyone else remember this? Or is this like false memory syndrome? Yeah, so I think to give the full context, because it could well be false memory, which is why I want to give it that full context. So I am certain, like certain, that it was Eamon

that they introduced. You know they have that slot at the end of this morning for someone who they haven't even interviewed. They just throw them on to sing a song at the end, like to play us out. You know, it's Eamon. And I really, really think they said Eamon. If not, it must have been something really similar. And I kind of vaguely recognised him as Eamon,

so he must have looked similar as well. And I only remember it because the song that he played was, like, the worst song ever. Just in, like, it looked like it was written by AI. It was, like, the most generic lyrics, like, no imagination in it whatsoever. Every single line sung in a screeching high voice that, like, he couldn't manage.

And the lyrics were like, I'll take you back. Just forgive me for all the mistakes I made. It's just really generic, straight down the line, no imagery at all. And I remember watching it thinking, that's Eamon? God, this is appalling. This is really bad. But I've never been able to find any evidence that that happened. It's not on YouTube.

It's not on his Wikipedia page, it doesn't even seem like he released anything around that time. So I'm starting to think it wasn't him and it might have been someone with a similar name or a similar look or I've just misheard it or it's a complete false memory. But I really do think it was Eamon and if it was, I want to unearth it because that song was terrible.

I kind of hope it wasn't because I don't want to publicly dick on him in this way. But I want to find out who it was at least because I've never forgotten it. And the problem is that you can't even Google it because if you type in... What do I Google? If you Google Eamon this morning, you'll just get loads of pictures of Eamon Holmes. That's exactly what happened. That's what it is. I decided to Google it and I just got loads of Eamon Holmes.

It's like the new sort of lost media iceberg. You've got the lost episodes of Doctor Who. You've got the Sesame Street episode with the Wicked Witch. And Eamon performing on This Morning in 2009. Alright then, on to the second and last song this week, and I mean, you all know what it is, but we're going to play it anyway. It's this.

Yeah, sorry, we have to play it. Yeah. Yeah. See, I don't know why you're crying like a, talking like a snake. Why'd you write a song about me? If you really didn't care, you wouldn't want to share. Telling everybody just how you feel What I did was your fault somehow The presents, I threw all that now Got the crying, it didn't mean jack

Well, guess what, yo, cry back What I did was your fault somehow The presents, I threw on that Now, gone the crying It didn't mean jack Well, guess what, yo Right back Okay, this is F.U.R.B. in brackets

F.U. Right Back by Frankie Released as the lead single from her debut studio album titled The Good, The Bad, The Ugly, F.U. Right Back is the first single to be released by Frankie in the UK and her first to reach number one, but this is the last time that we'll be discussing Frankie on this podcast. The song is a reinterpretation of Eamon's song Fuck It I Don't Want You Back, which first reached number 1 like literally 4 weeks ago. F U Right Back went straight in at number 1 as a brand new entry knocking Eamon off the top of the charts. It stayed at number 1 for 3 weeks. In its first week at number 1 it sold 80,000 copies, beating competition from Irish Blood

English Heart by Morrisseysey which got to number 3 and Don't Tell Me by Avril Lavigne which got to number 5. In its second week at the top it sold 49,000 copies beating competition from Hotel by Cassidy which got to number 3 and On My Knees by The 411 and GhostfaceKiller which got to number 4. In its third and final week at number 1 it sold 37,000 copies beating competition from Trick Me by Kelis which got to number 2. When it was knocked off the top of the charts, F.U. Right Back dropped one place to number 2.

By the time it was done on the charts it had been inside the top 100 for 17 weeks. The song was eventually certified silver in the UK. So, Lizzy, Frankie, go ahead. Oh, God. I mean, aside from this being just a slightly worse version of the same song, this one also feels like a wasted opportunity. Like, it's so rare that you get to hear the other side of the story in a breakup song, but rather than use that opportunity to tell a story that's compelling or relatable or even dramatic,

it just settles for the same puerile cheap shots over and over again and doesn't tell us anything that we didn't already know about the relationship. It's got the same problems with the last one. It's got the underwhelming arrangement. It's got the boring production, albeit with some cheapo synth stabs tacked on top of it. But Frankie's performance is irritating in a different way. Like, she responds to Eamon's, like, maud arsery with the sort of, like, childish insults

delivered in an unconvincingly aggressive way, like, you know, like Fred Durst used to do. But without any of the kind of knowing irony, I get the sense that she thinks this is really cool and, like, this is really cool and like this is gonna elevate her to the mainstream and I guess it did but that kind of appeal is very limited as we now know and ultimately the outcome is the same as the last track. The relationship is dead in the water and these two should be kept as far apart as possible because they clearly bring out the worst in each other.

Like, as my nan would have said to them, just pack it in, the pair of you. Getting on my nerves. Andy, how do you feel about Frankie? Well, I always thought that I was going to have far more to say about Eamon than Frankie, just because Eamon got to the jump quicker, you know, was first

off the mark, it's probably the one that people will remember more and it had that initial shock value that Frankie's doesn't because it's the answer song to it. So I always thought I was going to have more to say about Eamon but I think I definitely have more at least more thoughts running around my head about this

because I think this transforms the don't want you back phenomenon into something else entirely which I really don't like it really leaves a sour taste in my mouth and I think is really indicative of some of the worst parts of culture at the time and I don't want to put all that on Frankie because I imagine she's fairly innocent in this she's just trying to get started on a label and the label have decided to piggyback on this. So she's kind of blameless as far as I'm concerned. But I mean, if we start with the song itself, Lizzie, you said, you know, it's the same cheap shots as Eamon. I would say these are far cheaper shots, actually.

Like this goes to a level that Eamon didn't really where I mean can I just interrupt there I meant like the same she does the same cheap shots over and over again oh sorry sorry yeah well yeah yeah it's I think that obviously it was very hateful and very nasty what Eamon was saying especially you know coming from a male perspective but what Eamon was saying, especially coming from a male perspective. But the kind of stuff that Frankie comes out with is on a really low blow kind of level, where it's like talking about how he is in bed and how he didn't satisfy her

and how he's just not a good lover. And it's like, well, he never really got into that. He was upset because you broke up and was kind of lashing out, but you're going into really personal stuff and i think it for one thing it's like well you know you've not been the better person here this is kind of you're going to a worse place than he ever did so i like you less than i like him but also i think bear in mind that this is fake presumably from it seems you know like like rob said the kind of seemingly authentic version of this is that this is fake presumably, it seems like Rob said, the kind of seemingly authentic version

of this is that this is all fake and it was just a label deal you know, this is a real guy she's talking about, people don't know that that's fake, you know, and she's throwing quite personal insults at him, and yes, the same is true of Frankie when he was singing, but

Eamon wasn't singing about Frankie, that came afterwards, she got into this voluntarily, whereas like these potshots are being taken at Eamon who didn't know this was going to happen, and so I think it's a bit kind of horrible really, but on a broader level I think this whole thing, this whole thing is kind of representative of a nasty side of British culture at the time which is what I've described in the past as tabloid television which is this Jeremy Kyle um you know chat show tabloid headlines big brother sort of thing where people's personal lives are fair game and everything is dirty linen to be heard in public that we will later see across the decade with katie and peter and with

chantelle and preston and jade goodie and hair partners and god knows who else you know that this kind of public breakup being used as like choreography to make money and to sell records and to sell items. I just think, you know, this is something that was really big at the time. And looking back is really toxic and really dangerous. You know, it's sending out the wrong message that like, this is how you should behave in a breakup. It's particularly sending a wrong message out to the men because, you know, it's so often a thing that men do with breakupsups but i just think the whole thing that's being presented here as you know two people

who are really slanging it out in public trying to get one over on each other and then them both getting to number one and making loads of money off it i think just sends a really bad message and i like to think that we've kind of moved on from this now, and we haven't fully, because you still get lots of awful stuff coming out of reality TV and stuff now. But I do think we at least recognise that this is toxic now, and that it's kind of trashy at best, and tragic at worst, to be having this kind of stuff out there in the public spotlight. But then all of that is overridden by the fact that it's fake. None of

this is real. You know, they've never met each other. And so it's not just toxic. It's also really cynical that, you know, you're buying into people's acceptance of the narrative and being like, oh, I'm on team Eamon. I'm on team Frankie. Like, you go, girl. Or no, no, you go, Eamon, mate. This is fake. They don't know each other. Like, the whole thing is just a license to print money. And the fact that it did so well, I think, is very kind of disheartening. And like I said, you know, I was a kid at the time. I see why I bought into this along with everybody else,

but it just shouldn't have happened. It's just not a nice thing for something like this with such a negative attitude and such a hateful concept behind it to to do so well um so yes as you can tell i really don't like it i think it represents some really bad things um as an actual song though like i said i i like it less than i don't want you back partly because i think the lyrics go to a really really bad place that goes way lower than amon did but also um i just think it's really badly written like it's got some really clunky lyrics it's like your sex was whack like who says that nobody talks like that it's just like horrible um there's all kinds of lyrics that just are really really clunky um yeah like i say none of this is against frankie but the whole thing feels like a really cheap

quick cash-in where they've had to make up lyrics on the fly sort of reminiscent of like um football's coming home again kind of has that vibe about it um by atomic kitten so yeah the music video as well is like astoundingly cheap it i actually do think it was made on windows movie maker it looks like it was made on windows movie maker um it's really terrible so yeah i really really don't like this and like i said i want to emphasize that it's definitely nothing against Frankie because she kind of got onto this whole journey quite late, seemingly, and at the behest of her label. It's also not a thing about favoring the man over the woman. I want to make that point clear as well. It's just that the way this is framed is that, you know, Eamon starts this and then Frankie takes really cheap shots and makes it far more toxic than it was to begin with.

Yeah, I just the whole thing leaves me walking away thinking, no, no, I don't like this. I wish this hadn't happened. And it's horrible to think back that we had seven weeks of this, like with, you know, kids like me listening to the charts and we had seven weeks of this. Yeah, I don't think it speaks well to us as a society, to be honest. And maybe I'm putting too fine a point on this silly little breakup thing that was prearranged by a label, but no, no, it's not nice at all. The only other thing I wanted to mention is, like we've said, that this is right after Amen,

and if we are to generously describe this as a cover, because it is basically a cover, is this the fastest that a cover of a song has ever gotten to number one after the original? The only other one I can think of is that The Beatles sold I Wanna Be Your Man to the Rolling Stones immediately, and I think that might have gotten number one in the 60s, very early in the Rolling Stones career.

I can't think of anything else that a cover of it has snapped up so quickly. Mambo's number five by Bob was not long afterwards. That was less than a year. Surely there won't be one after the other. No, I can't think of another time where this has happened where the same song has made it one after the other. Like you say, if there is,

it's probably going to be in like the 60s when kind of covers were more of an in thing yeah the only like cover that's been so immediate that i can think of is do you remember mike flowers did that cover of wonderwall in the 90s um like a sort of jazzy version of wonderwall and that came out while wonderwall was still going um like oasis version of Wonderwall. And that came out while Wonderwall was still going, like Oasis' version of Wonderwall. And it obviously never got anywhere near number one, but that was a pretty fast off-the-mark response as well, that one.

But I can't think of anything else that's had this kind of immediacy, no. We'll rely again on our listeners to fill in the gaps. Yeah, the thing is with this is that it is such a rare chart event it feels like a phenomenon that probably couldn't happen now just because of the way streaming works and the way that everything's kind of gone very you know like fort knox with regards to labels and agreeing to you know licensed samples and things like this it's all gone very legal in a way that it probably wasn't 20 years ago um but the fact that this is such a rare event in chart history where we get an answer song which is basically a cover

slash direct reinterpretation, going to number one immediately after the original, but it's such a shame that, like, both of these songs are just garbage, aren't they? Like, you know what I mean? The first ones, no, I mean, I Don't Want You Back is poor, but I don't hate it. I find it slightly annoying and a bit pathetic and a bit whiny and a bit mean-spirited and gimmicky. And so I kind of, I went into F.U. Right Back as a response song, thinking that this was going to be Frankie saying, now, hang on a minute, let me have my say here, because my memories of the song were quite hazy, I didn't remember a lot of the lyrical content, I just remember vaguely seeing an image of her on a bed, on the phone, seen an image of her on a bed on the phone to somebody like i as if like in the music video like she was arguing with amon down the phone or something but that that doesn't really happen

either so i'm not sure what version i saw on the tv when i was like 10 years old or nine years old but it's just that i think like you were saying lizzie this is basically the same but worse but like much worse um because as much as this was like a label concoction and as much as you know obviously eamon and frankie never met each other it still i do still find it interesting as a phenomenon by itself you know like the fact that they were number one after each other. Like the British public invented a soap opera story like in pop music for itself. Another kind of blur versus oasis,

but it's contemporary R&B scene sort of stuff. And when Frankie opens the song up by saying like, you know, there are two sides to every story, I'm like, yeah, right, let's hear how Eamon, who is now a character in this story, against his own will, was actually a bad boyfriend who cheated on you instead, because obviously the whole thing with I don't want you back is you cheated on me, you hurt me, and I don't want you back. But it just isn't that. Like, like you know like you were saying lizzie instead of trying to offer her perspective on the breakup and like you know because it's all

very serious surroundings and all very mellow instrumentation and stuff instead of trying to offer her perspective on the breakup it's just a joke like it just feels like the song is a joke it's just frankie's character justifying her infidelity by saying oh amon was a little cry baby who was bad at sex and i don't know i just find it all a bit crass yeah i i don't want to be accused of like double standards and stuff but i think andy you hit the nail on the head which is that a lot of stuff that amon said was mean-spirited but maybe it's saved by the fact that amon's imagination as a lyricist is quite you know it's not exactly ripping up any trees and so a lot of the stuff he says it's all like broad vague stuff about how it hurts to be cheated on it doesn't go into like the specifics of the relationship like he was saying

it doesn't air the dirty laundry in public the relationship like he was saying. It doesn't air the dirty laundry in public or anything like that. You know, this girl could, in the Eamon song, she's kind of anonymous. She could be anybody. All we know is that he got cheated on and it hurts and that's it. But this is very, this version is very specifically about Eamon. And instead of being like you know now hang on a minute why are you telling all these lies about me it says yep that was all true and I'm completely

justified in it because guess what yo your sex was whack like yeah that's the thing it brings it down to such a lower level than you expect and I definitely think the way you described it Rob as like it should be her chance to air her side. And so, you know, some of what you're saying about me is not true.

And, you know, I should stand up for myself here. That's how it would be done today, I think, if that were to happen. But this idea of race to the bottom, that's kind of what I was getting at with the kind of tabloid culture side of it. Like, how do we make this really, really grisly? Because by the time we reached that line your sex was whack and like they changed the lyrics of the chorus i feel like i've wandered into some kind of weird owl parody only unlike owl the punch lines don't work the rhyme schemes are somehow worse than amon's version and i just I also just don't think she can sing that well like if she was

you know Friday night and you walk into a pub and you're like oh that person sounds quite good on a karaoke machine like I I just I don't know it just I feel like they've not looked after her voice here at all she's very much in her nose a lot of the time. Did you find that some of the lyrics were quite hard to understand in some of the later choruses? Her enunciation seemed to be a bit off, didn't quite get some of the lines, which is quite a rare thing in a number

one song to not really be able to make out the lyrics. I think that's down to shoddy production and mastering more than anything. Agreed. Yeah. But I think what really knocks this down a peg for me beyond the kind of crass like you say race to the bottom kind of like you know i don't mind songs being puerile or anything like that and fair enough you know frankie's like playing a character and amamon signed off the release of the sample. I don't know if he was aware of the lyrical content. He seemed basically fine with it.

He said, I didn't expect all of this to come out of it. They're having fun with it. It's cool. But in the end, they're paying me for their 15 minutes of fame. And I welcome her to my world of ho-wop. my world of ho-wop um direct quote by the way um i just i i don't know i find it all a bit like beyond the fact that she's justifying cheating and stuff like that which again like it's not something i would do but you know let he who is without sin cast the first stone etc etc but i find some of the lyrics a bit like abusive and abusive and a bit, like, gaslight-y. Like, what I did was your fault somehow. Um, what? And then at the end of

the song, she says, you made me do this. And I'm just gonna let those lyrics lie for a second. If somebody that you're with does something horrible to you and then says, you made me do this, you know, little red flag going up. Yeah, Taylor.

He didn't. It's not real. Like, it's this point again that Eamon was singing about an imaginary no-one who we'd never met as a listener. Frankie is singing about Eamon, who we know, who just got number one a few weeks ago, and you're trashing him. Like, it's not the same framing and you he didn't make her do this she kind of made him do this but i think more than anything and lizzie when you said it i nearly jumped in but i decided not to this is almost a quote directly lizzie and

i have it in my notes too this is a massive missed opportunity it is like imagine if this was a proper answer song like an actual argument against amen and then imagine in a month's time amen and frankie they can build a nice little temporary empire for themselves do a joint song where they argue together you know like where they have an argument and instead this this song kind of turns them both into the joke like they both become known for this and this only and nothing else that they do goes anywhere frankie doesn't have another song chart in the uk amon has like i think he has one more go at the top 40 and then that that's about it. And I don't know, I just feel like there was a bit of an opportunity here to kind of enhance Eamon's version,

and instead they've just kind of gone really regressive with it. And like you say, Andy, they've kind of gone for this kind of tabloid nastiness because it's something that drives copies and stuff, but it doesn't sustain itself forever like you know if it was um if we were discussing this in more modern terms and Eamon and Frankie were trending you know I keep thinking about a lyric in a Kanye song where he says um I've been trending years you're a couple days and it's like you know you need like you need to become a headline factory and I feel like need like you need to become a headline factory and i feel

like there was an opportunity to become a headline factory here where they could just pretend to have a relationship in public for a year or something just to make some cash for themselves because you know like fair enough you know this is pop pop is a game it's already it's always extra textual you know it's always about image and about marketing and about synergy between lots of different media platforms and i don't think that this really is any different to any other answer song necessarily in pop history you know it's using a currently existing song in order to make a bit of cash for yourself it's not like the frankie is the first and the worst to do this or anything like that but i don't know it just this feels like it was this really feels like it was assembled in 24 hours like they had the idea they made the phone

call they got the demo back they did everything in like a day like you know because they were bored and they were like oh we've got this frankie artist who's like on the up and come in her neighborhood why don't we just send her to national stardom and i don't know i just you know it's a direct copy of a song i already don't like that much it's reinvention is not that inventive after all and i just i think this is pie hole material for me um my first one of 2004 um because i just like i say i don't want to be accused of like, you know, because I was worried about being accused of like, you know, double standards marry it up against, and you compare it to the kind of air in the dirty laundry, trying to embarrass Eamon kind of stuff in the Frankie version, then they're probably both as bad as each other, but I feel like the Frankie one is, the Eamon one isn't very

good, and you can just sort of go, well, that's not great, and forget about it, whereas, like, with the Frankie one, it feels like it's stuck in my craw more because i was like i had memories of this being like i didn't cheat on you it was a lie and now you're you know like you're telling the whole world about all the terrible things i got up to when it didn't really happen but instead it's no it did happen and i was right to do it and And I just, I don't know. I don't often judge songs on these terms. I don't get all judgmental and pearl clutchy about like, you know, what will this do to children?

You know, that sort of thing. But I just, yeah, I just find it all a bit crass. I just don't find it funny or inventive or even enjoyable for a second. Like I've been listening to this on my own, on headphones, just while I've been doing the dishes every night over the past six or seven days. And even though there's nobody around to hear it,

I'm creasing up in my kitchen when she says things like, you must be smoking crack. And it's like, is that the best line you could come up with? And is that the best way you could deliver it? I don't think so I really don't think so

my arms will suddenly contract while I'm washing a plate and water goes everywhere because I'm just like oh mate why did you say that line it really does have bad parody like it's not fair to compare it to Weird Al because Weird Al puts actual sort of work

in and effort to kind of land the jokes whereas this seems like I don't know a YouTube parody or something or a Dead Ringers parody that is exactly where I was going with this um it reminded me more of something that the Midnight Beast would do around like 2009, 2010. If any, if everybody wants to have a window into what the internet was like and how Kesha was talked about in 2010, I highly will not highly recommend, but if you want to wade into the swamp of his parody of Tik TOK by Kesha, then by all means go ahead.

Yeah. I just find this all very like yeah like you say some stupid YouTube parody I'm surprised that like it's not just an auto tune remix of Eamon that makes it sound like he's crying more often it just yeah I find this

all very and I didn't know that it beat Trick Me to number one in that last week. Yeah, that's roughly off the wrong way. Yeah. But never mind. No, just that I guess if we ever want to make it big

and we want to really kind of get the podcast into the stratosphere, shall we just like start a public beef with each other? Rob, you are the podcast. I'm out. I'm leaving the podcast. Goodbye. I don't want either of you back.

So, before we go, Andy, fuck it, I don't want you back. Is that going in the pie hole or the vault? No, it's not. It's not going anywhere for me. And Frankie, is that going anywhere the pie hole or the vault no it's not it's not going anywhere for me and frankie is that going anywhere for you that is going into the pie hole i don't want it back from the pie

hole yes um and lizzie how about you for amon and frankie um so for am, it just narrowly misses out because the Frankie version is so much worse. So yeah, Frankie's going in, but Eamon, you just, just miss. Agreed. Just. Yeah, I'm giving a similar warning to Eamon. It was close. It was a close call.

A warning for next time for Eamon. Yes. Yeah, unfortunately, this is the last time, so the warning will just you know crash and burn but yeah frankie's definitely going in uh for me one of my least favorite songs that we've done so far and mostly because i was shocked i think because i haven't seen this coming like some iceberg in the distance like jesus christ i hate this it's more like it's a

surprise that i hate it so much because like the version of it that i had in my head was more like like like i kept saying like i thought it was like a response to amen like a response to the accusations like a denial but no apparently not it was like a victory parade for doing something really horrible so that's it for this week's episode thank you very much for listening to this well, maybe it won't end up being slightly shorter in the end

but there's slightly less content in terms of songs, but when we come back it'll be three songs as usual and we'll be covering the period between the 6th of June and the 3rd of july so a smaller smaller window of time but with more songs in it god the charts how we love them so thank you very much and we will see you very soon bye bye see ya