Hits 21 - 2004 (5): Mario Winans, Britney Spears, McFly

Episode Date: July 23, 2023

Hello again, everyone, and welcome back to Hits 21, the show that's taking a look back at every UK #1 hit single of the 21st century - from January 2000, right through to the present day. Twitter: @Hits21UK Email: [e-mail]

Hi there everyone, welcome back to Hits21, where me, me Andy and me Lizzy all look back at every single UK number one of the 21st century from January 2000 right through to the present day if you want to get in touch with us you can, you can find us over on Twitter, we are at Hits21UK

that is at Hits21UK and you can email us too, just send it on over to Hits21UK. And you can email us too. Just send it on over to Hits21Podcast at gmail.com. Thank you so much for joining us again. We're currently looking back at the year 2004. This time we'll be covering the period between the 6th of June and the 3rd of July. Looking back to last week, it was an Eamon and Frankie special, and the winner of the

two in the weekly poll was Eamon. So, Eamon technically wins then. History says that he wins, apparently. So, I mean, we're not the final word on that, but, you know. Okay, on to this week's episode, and as always, we are going to give you some news headlines from around the time that the songs that we're covering in this week's episode were number one. In British politics, Ken Livingstone retains his position as Mayor of London. in local council elections losing 464 councillors and eight councils overall while the conservatives make gains and the Lib Dems have a mixed night and in the European elections UKIP go from having three MEPs to 12. Nothing to worry about there I'm sure UKIP will never have any effect on British politics. In football after years of financial, Wimbledon Football Club are dissolved and moved to Milton Keynes, where they subsequently become MK Dons.

In response to the highly controversial relocation, support for Phoenix club AFC Wimbledon increases. As of 2023, MK Dons and AFC Wimbledon both play in League 2. As does Stockport, which is my local team. Yay! And mine too. Well, all of ours, didn't I? I said mine. Yes. Yeah. Just Stockport, well done.

And staying with football, England reach the quarter-finals of Euro 2004, but are subsequently knocked out by Portugal on penalties. The game had finished 2-2 after extra time, with a goal from England's Sol Campbell being controversially ruled out. The eventual tournament winners were Greece, and all of those England coins that we all collected from Sainsbury's ended up in a landfill somewhere and presumably still exist because time does no damage to these things, they just exist forever. The face of Owen Hargreaves staring back at the sky as it fills with green clouds and dust.

I remember I was really upset when we lost that match because of the disallowed goal, and then it went to penalties, and I really thought that might be the year for England. I was a big football fan at that time, and I cried. I really cried my eyes out and I was dead embarrassed about it because I was like 12 years old

so I was supposed to be getting into being a moody teenager but I cried over the England results and I was like, nothing, I'm not crying I'm just annoyed You're not alone, I think that really was the peak of like England are going to win it all this is the year.

Yeah. It's kind of downhill from there. They didn't. Yeah, the metatarsal screwed us over. We discovered it and then it did us in. The films, or should I say film, to hit the top of the UK box office during this period was Harry Potter and the Prisoner of azkaban for five weeks five weeks five whole weeks in tv kitten pinder is evicted from the big brother house shouting

against the queen and the aristocracy on the way out she becomes the first contestant to be evicted by the show's producers rather than through an audience vote after repeatedly breaking the rules. And yet that didn't happen again because staying with Big Brother a series of arguments following a food fight escalated into several physical altercations between housemates. Security guards were forced to enter the house while Jason, Marcoco nadia vanessa and victor were all given formal warnings by big brother as a result of their behavior during the incident offcom received 300 complaints from viewers and hartfordshire police had to be called in to resolve the issue yeah fight night i'm shaking my head disapprovingly like the uh not youth that I am. Yeah. Yeah. I kind of feel like the fact that they allowed that to go on afterwards maybe indirectly led to something a couple of years down the line.

But who knows? Yeah. So, Andy, moving away from Big Brother, how are the album charts looking in the UK? I thought that this was going to be a pretty quiet week for me on the album charts because we're only covering about a month this week but it's all change all the time so I've got quite a lot for you actually where we last left it, Hopes and Fears by Keane was at number one

the second highest selling album of the year that was briefly toppled by Faithless with No Roots which went to number one for one week and joined that dubious club of only going gold despite being a number one album. Hopes and Fears then return to the top again that's the fourth time now by the way

Hopes and Fears is back at number one for another week before it's replaced by A Grand Don't Come For Free by The Streets which I'm sure is an album that at least one of us, probably all of us, are quite fond of here. Yeah, The Streets. Yeah.

But then we finally have the arrival of the best-selling album of the year, only just outdoing Hopes and Fears. Any guesses what the number one album of 2004 was in the UK? Hmm. No, I'm not sure, actually.

No, I'm going to have to pass as well. I'll tell you that it surprised me, because I adore this album, I love it, and all the singles off it were big, but I didn't think the album was this big. It is Scissor Sisters by Scissor Sisters. The debut album. Went nine times platinum. It was an absolute monster hit. It did also produce a whole bunch of singles.

Laura, Take Your Mama, Comfortably Numb, Mary, Filthy Gorgeous. What an album. Yeah. And that takes us through for the next couple of weeks. Yeah. So yeah so yeah it's the time of Scissor Sisters I wish it had continued forever

Lizzie how are things over there in America well I've got nothing to report on the singles chart this week as Usher's Reign of Terror continues but there is some respite over on the albums chart where his album Confessions was overtaken by Avril Lavigne and her album Under My Skin.

It was certified three times platinum in the US and also got to number one in the UK, but it was only number one in the US for one week before Confessions returned to the top for one more week. After that, we had a debut album hitting the top spot on the albums chart Which was Velvet Revolver The supergroup featuring former members of Guns N' Roses, Wasted Youth and Stone Temple Pilots And their album Contraband It went straight in at number 1 in the US And would eventually go double platinum over there But it only got as high as number 11 on the UK albums chart

That album spent one week at number one before giving way to our final album this week, To The Five Burrows by the Beastie Boys. It was their third consecutive album to hit the top spot, selling around 360,000 copies in its first week and eventually being certified

platinum in the US. In the UK, it narrowly missed out on the top spot, getting as high as number two behind What Else? Hopes and Fears by Keem. Maybe I'm naive to it, but I just would not have thought Beastie Boys were still getting number

one albums at that time. It seems like they're well past that point. I'm quite impressed. Yeah, apparently so. Well, they sort of come up again in this episode, so we'll get to that as soon as we can. I'm quite impressed Yeah Yeah, apparently so Well they sort of come up again in this episode So we'll get to that as soon as we can So thank you both for those reports

And we're going to get right on into it So the first song up this week is this I just can't believe it's now It's just another night of these thoughts I can't believe it's me This is another night of these thoughts Can't get this out of my head Somebody said they saw through The person you were kissing was a game And I would never ask you I just kept it to myself I don't wanna know

If you're playing me, keep it on the low Cause my heart can't take it anymore and if you're creeping please don't let it show oh baby i don't wanna know Okay, this is I Don't Wanna Know by Mario Winans featuring P. Diddy and Enya. Released as the lead single from his second studio album titled Hurt No More, I Don't Wanna Know is the first single to be released by Mario Winans in the UK and his first to reach number one. However, sadly, this is the last time we'll be discussing Mario on this podcast. I Don't Wanna Know first entered the UK charts at number 71, reaching number one in its second week on the charts, knocking Frankie off the top spot. It stayed at number one for two weeks.

In its first week at number one, it sold 61,000 copies beating competition from Insania by Peter Andre which got to number 3, Mass Destruction by Faithless which got to number 7, Check It Out by Beastie Boys which got to number 8 and altogether now 2004 by The Farm which got to number 10. In its second week atop the charts, it sold 48,000 copies, beating competition from Come On England by 442, which got to number 2, Dragosta Dinte, The Numa Numa Song by Ozone, which got to number 3, Born in England by Twisted X, which got to number 9, and All Falls Down by Kanye West, which got to number 9, and All Falls Down by Kanye West,

which got to number 10. When it was knocked off the top of the charts, I Don't Wanna Know dropped one place to number 2. By the time it left the charts, it had been inside the top 100 for 17 weeks. The song was eventually certified silver in the UK. So, Lizzy, take the lead on this one. Mario, how do you feel? Yeah, I mean, I do like this, but I also think it's a bit of a shame because there's a unique

angle in this song that I doubt we'll see much again, which you pointed out to me earlier in the week, Rob, so I'll let you explain it better than I could and like on top of that Mario Winans has a pleasant voice and sells the song's kind of main conceit with real like tenderness and sincerity and it's nice to see Enya get credited on a number one in this century but there are quite heavy downsides here though, I think the production sounds quite thin and dated like it's been on the shelf since 1996 and dusted off for this track. And not really helping with that effect is P Diddy who just sounds so disinterested on this, like he'd been woken up 5 minutes before recording and dashed off a verse as

a favour to Winans. I'd like to ask if any of our listeners have a particular favourite P. Diddy track or performance because from what I've heard of him, I just find him to be one of the dullest rappers to ever make it big. But there must be some reason why he's so successful that I'm possibly missing out on so I don't know answers on a postcard please in any case um going back to this song his verse just adds nothing and by the time the song's over you've already forgotten it like like a dream you had the night before it's just it comes and it goes and that's it it doesn't really stand out so you think what's the point and it's like i say it's a shame because the idea behind the song is an interesting one and

clearly the song has had some staying power because a remake by metro booming the weekend and 21 savage charted worldwide earlier this year, hitting the top 10 in both the US and the UK. And just a little fun fact, for the second time in two episodes, we have a response record to talk about. I wasn't aware. Is this the response or is there a response coming? There's a response coming a little bit later on in 2004, but it was released by some producers called The Pirates with vocals by Shola Ammer,

who covered You Might Need Somebody in the 90s. Oh, I used to love that. Yeah, and a guest first by Nyla Boss as well. Like, we're not going to be covering it on the podcast, but it did get as high as number eight in the UK that same year, so maybe response records were just all the rage in 2004 and we didn't realize it everybody just trying to get the next big one probably yeah yeah um there was also i had a look at the back cover is there was

a bit like texas numbers to get the polyphonic ringtone for your nokia it's like yeah this is 2004 as hell um but yeah yeah, that's kind of my thoughts on this one. I like it, but it feels like there could have been something more here. It's a bit of a wasted opportunity. Andy, how about you? Yeah,

I'm pretty much in agreement with Lizzie to be honest, and probably a little bit more negative than that. I mean, it's fine. I don't really think there's anything that bad about the song, although I do have some things to point out. But overall, I just find it really quite profoundly generic, like really generic.

There's just not a lot to it. There's nothing that surprises me at any point about the structure, about the lyrics, really, apart from one thing which I will mention. There's just not much that really captured my interest and I will say that I don't remember this at all. It kind of came back to me as I listened to it but I don't remember it being number one, I don't remember it being out. It's just kind of there in my subconscious a little bit. it's just kind of there in my subconscious a little bit. Yeah, I kind of vaguely recall the tune,

but I don't remember the song being out at all, so maybe I'm kind of missing something about why this was big at the time, or at least got number one at the time. But yeah, I really am missing something apparently, because I do think this is just quite straight down the line. But one thing that is odd about it, just picking up on what Lizzie said about it being stuck on the shelf, completely agree with that in terms of how it sounds. I think this kind of has a timeless facet to it, which I don't mean that as in timeless as in it will live forever.

You know, it's not that kind of timeless. I mean, timeless as in if I had this out of context, I'm not sure I could accurately date this. not sure I could accurately date this, it has a weird mixture of like 90s sort of the kind of piano thing that they do in the background and some of the synth sounds but with some very noughties or R&B percussion as well and definitely a very noughties crooner kind of R&B vocal style as well. It's yeah it's quite sort of unidentifiable of its time, and I'm not really sure that's a good thing, to be honest, because it's not, I don't think it's trying to go for that. Yeah, and as for the rap sequence, the line that really jumped out to me was the whole thing about buying cheese, and I was like, what? What is that about? It's just so strange. Yeah, so I'm not the hugest fan of this, and I've really grown to dislike it a little bit more as the week's gone on, as I've been listening to it.

But yeah, not my favourite, but it's okay. It's okay. We've had worse this year already, so I'm not sure we'll be talking about it again. Yeah, I feel kind of similarly to you two. i feel like we are in a bit of a moody r&b era at the moment it's kind of like a micro era uh micro phase because this feels kind of similar to the vibe of i don't want you back you know it's this mellow r&b rap crossover about a guy being cheated on um and lyrically it also feels a bit similar to Who's David as well, so there's a lot of male perspective breakup songs around at the moment, although I think something I find interesting about this one, which Lizzie you kind of alluded to before, is that this guy, Mario,

hears about his girl cheating behind his back, it's rumor but it still hurts only the lyrical perspective that this one takes i much prefer it to i don't want you back and to who's david because it's a perspective that i don't think we've heard in these kinds of songs yet which is mario basically saying i know you're cheating on me but i'm just going to pretend that you're not because it's easier that way and it isn't easier but obviously the protagonist of the song isn't necessarily in the right and i think it's kind of well at least where mario's bits are concerned i feel like it's you know it's very clearly communicated that this guy isn't making the right decisions but his head isn't in the right place and he'll need time to process everything that he's learned it's kind of undermined by just p diddy being there like

because his verse doesn't add anything beyond just like i made you what you are and you cheated on me which like i don't know that's not interesting to me um it's mar Mario that provides all the, the interesting parts of this, I find, because I think knowing that your partner is cheating on you, but staying around anyway, because you think it's just easier than being alone, that's a thing people do. And I think that's worth reflecting in pop, you know, because pop is about reflecting people's feelings. And so I think it has a lot of value in that regard, but like you, Lizzie, it's a shame that the arrangement behind this does not grab me whatsoever. It's perfunctory and, you know, it kind of performs its function without being particularly memorable either, and it doesn't develop enough and there isn't enough going on,

it's just the only idea it really has is to make the drums occasionally go like a heartbeat. That's about it. Otherwise it's just the same Enya off in the distance. Like I am fine with that initially, but after two minutes, I'm like, I need more than just like a little bit of piano to push me to the end. It's over four minutes long, this song.

And I don't really know why. It's way too sparse to justify how long it is. I've realised over the last couple of weeks that it reminds me of a song from 80 Aliens by Outkast, which is Babylon, but its comparison in my head to Babylon it does expose how underdeveloped this feels to me I think more needs to happen in the run time for me to feel any kind of personal connection with

this beyond being generally appreciative of the interesting lyrical perspectives and lyrical stances that it takes. Because Mario is a nice vocalist. He has a very smooth, very melodic voice that is never anything less than a pleasure to hear and to listen to.

But I don't think he's handled that well, and outside of this single, there's very little to his name in terms of solo singles. What you were saying before, Lizzy, about P. Diddy in general, we'll come back to him once more on this podcast, I think, once more on this podcast, I think. But he's always consistently managed to get big singles, but it's never just him. I think he appreciates and acknowledges his limitations as a rapper. He'll do a verse if he feels like it's necessary, but he'll never do a full song just on his own

because I don't think he's capable of that and i think he knows that too but i think what he always knew better than anything else was the market and money and he was brilliant with a and r and promotion and the gift of the gab and being able to talk people up and understanding that like certain things needed to be done to get the bag basically you know from the early 90s onwards he is he slowly makes a name for himself because he was manager of um jodeci as well and then he ends up as a big player at Bad Boy, and that's when he brings Notorious B.I.G. through, and I think with Notorious B.I.G., it was always a case of Biggie's talent matched with Diddy's ear for the radio and ability to sense where trends were going to go

that made him one of the biggest stars in the world and I think that's what he's always been good at. All of his albums that he does, that he's released under his own name, every track has got like a million feature spots on it because he knows that on his own he isn't that interesting but he always managed to make his money by teaming up with well big even after he was dead but also mario winans here or christina aguilera in a couple of years because he does uh don't tell me which is the uh tell me what you're thinking about when you got me winning patiently and then he does like a little verse on that as well he has his own part and so I think he turns up in the early

2010s as well on a couple of tracks but again it's normally when he's one of three people featured on a track because I think he knows that as explained in this song I think he drags this down unfortunately but I think this overall that as explained in this song I think he drags this down um unfortunately but I think this overall this gets a mild thumbs up from me um I I'm not getting excited about it and I'm

kind of glad it's you know the one I'm kind of glad it's out of the way first this week um because it's the one I have least to say about. So, we will move swiftly on. And the second single of this week is this. Notice me, take my hand Why are we strangers when our love is strong? Why carry on without me? Every time I try to fly I fall without my wings

I feel so small I guess I need you, baby And every time I see you in my dreams Okay, this is Every Time by Britney Spears. Released as the third single from her fourth studio album titled In The Zone, Every Time is Britney Spears' 17th single overall to be released in the UK and her fifth to reach number one. This is not the last time we'll be discussing Britney on this podcast, but it will be the last time for a while.

Every Time went straight in at number one as a brand new entry, knocking Mario Winans off the top of the charts. It stayed at number one for one week. In its first and only week atop the charts, it sold 54,000 copies, beating competition from Talk About Our Love by Brandy and Kanye West which got to number 6, With You by Jessica Simpson which got to number 7 and Golden Touch by Razorlight which got to number 9.

When it was knocked off the top of the charts Everytime dropped one place to number 2. By the time it was done on the charts it had been inside the top 100 for 15 weeks the song was eventually certified gold in the UK. So Andy, Britney Spears. Yeah it's difficult really because we're in the year of toxic so everything else is going to be desperately trailing after it I think but I, from previous conversations we've had about this song, I definitely get the feeling that I like this less than you both do, so I'm keen to open up the floor on that. But I do really like this.

It's something very different for Britney, something far more vulnerable than we're used to, something that's far more personal, far more stripped back in terms of production, that sees her more as a vocalist and more as an artist expressing something and it's interesting to see that side of her because it's definitely not her comfort zone and it is yeah it is an interesting experiment and I like the little touches around it to sort of enhance that vulnerability especially the little music box kind of twinkle that runs throughout.

I think it kind of plays that a little bit too hard at some times. I think it can be quite a bleak listen to be honest, which is not really what I go to Britney for. But then, you know, that's kind of a me problem more than anything else because, you know, if that's what I go to Britney for then that's not her fault per se. But it's not one that I listen to a huge amount and when I listen to it you know I was quite surprised by how much I liked it because I do kind of tend to skip over this in Britney's discography but it is nice I'm not sure I would go a huge amount further to be honest and I think this is probably where I'll part ways with both of you two because i think although it i love the concept behind it and i love what she's doing and i love that um you know it has quite a lot of broader extra musical context to it as well i think as

a song it's not particularly memorable musically and that kind of drags it down a little bit for me that that melody in the chorus just kind of trails a bit doesn't really hit as hard as it could do in a ballad of this style um and that is the main thing that kind of detracts from it from me but other than that i do really like this and i'm certainly going to be um listening to it a lot more often but like i say this is the toxic era you know it's a high high bar and I think that again like I say I think it

slightly overplays its hand and it's slightly a little bit too much focused on the tone and the experience that it wants to capture at this point in Britney's life and there's not enough attention paid to it as far as I'm concerned as an actual piece of music.

I think it could do with a little bit more of a hook in there somewhere. But perhaps I'm being a little bit harsh. And again, to make it really, really clear, I do really, really like this, but I feel like you two will both really, really want to go to town on this. So I will open up the floor

and you can tell me why I'm wrong about that. Lizzie, yeah, what do you think? Yeah, I mean, I do actually agree with a lot of your points, Andy. I probably would say that I do like it better than you seem to, but yeah, I think this is fantastic. I find this one quite haunting

in a way that I don't really get with any other song by Britney, nor with most songs we'll encounter on this show. And that's partly due to the nature of the song itself in isolation and, as you say, also due to the lyrics in relation to Britney's real-life situation, which I don't really want to go into here because it's gonna come up again and again and also I feel like we're on the cusp of hearing the full

story at least from Britney's side and so it feels a bit um a bit presumptuous to talk about it now but anyway I'll try and like focus on the song as much as I can because it deserves to be talked about in in that sense it is a brilliant song like on its own you've got that combination of Britney's tender and vulnerable vocals and the icy lullaby-esque production the closest comparison I can think of that we've covered on the show would be something like Beautiful by Christina Aguilera or Never Had a Dream Come True by S Club. But where those songs kind of start small and begin to soar later on, this one seems to shrink into itself with Britney's vocals becoming more and more shrouded in glassy synth strings in between the more exposed verses with just her vocals and the plucked harp bookended by that gorgeous music box riff that keeps coming in and out and in that regard I'd maybe put it alongside something like I'm Not In Love by 10cc.

It's another song that's kind of paradoxically timeless, but also very of its time. But I think that that works to its advantage and it makes it all the more memorable for that reason. So, yes, as much as I don't have an awful lot to say about it beyond that, I think for what it is, it's incredibly effective and affecting. Yeah, it's really good. I definitely, I definitely like get where you're coming from with that, Lizzie. I think maybe it's just sort of personal taste in terms of how far you want this to go because i think where you say you know that that it kind of shrinks on in on itself i think this is kind of what i'm getting at with how it kind of disappoints me a little bit musically that i kind of feel like that's the song getting

lost in itself a little bit um and i feel like that's where it becomes a little bit maudlin as far as i'm concerned um but i do get it and i think this is a song that really because it's such a delicate song with relatively few details to pour over that it's kind of simplicity itself i think that means that personal preference comes into it far more than it might otherwise um but yeah i mean yeah i do say do you get where you're coming from with that yeah i mainly just think it makes sense in the context of the song that Britney herself wants to soar, but her environment around her won't let her. Yeah.

And, yeah, as we were saying about extra musical, you know. Okay, so despite the intensity and the speed and the excitement and the burning hot fires of Toxic, I think I prefer this. And that's more to this song's credit than it is a slant against Toxic, because I think Toxic is excellent. I don't think this is perfect, I will get into it but I'm not really sure I can explain myself

and my feelings about Everytime in a way that sounds objective or even rational, I think my relationship with it has a lot to do with watching and being utterly transfixed by the music video as a kid and even being like nine ten years old and being very emotionally struck by the story that the high stakes the destructive

kind of Marilyn Monroe style misery that gets inflicted upon britney by the fame and fortune in the video and everything that it comes with but with those caveats i still do find this to be as much as it's slower it's much more emotionally urgent i find and more despairing i think britney's performance yes it makes her come across as someone who desperately needs saving before they hit the metaphorical bottom of whatever situation that they're in like this song really does sound like life or death to me the way that the lyrics equate breakups with grief the way that the relationship in the song feels like it's a metaphor for fame that this addictive nature the sense of withdrawal that she feels whenever she's without it there's you like it's a metaphor for fame that this addictive nature the sense of withdrawal

that she feels whenever she's without it there's you know there's a great deal of of pain in this and i feel it from beginning to end and it it all comes through not just through britney's performance but that music box sounding like some part of brit's lost innocence, this fairy tale that's become mutated and pitch bent over time, you know, this thing that she was promised and dreamed of as a kid, you know, that everybody wants the life of standing in front of the paparazzi and Britney, etc, etc. Look at me, that's it, nice big smile. But it's made to sound desperately sad because it's like a point of no return has been reached with this life and the sound of the music box is actually a memory. Like it's not actually playing in the moment, we're just imagining it playing

somewhere in the past. You know, Britney running around a bedroom as a kid and picking the music box up. I think if the music video was any less subtle, you know, if it was directed by... Because I think it was directed by Dave LaChapelle, the photographer and the videographer. And I feel like if it had been in less subtle hands, it would have had a, you know... I think in the later 2000 2000s when music videos were all

letterboxed and super dramatic i think that the opening of this video would have had a child opening a music box you know like just to so that the subtext kind of jumps to text a bit too much but i find all of it so it's like a it is it swirls around my head and i do think that this is a way for britney to communicate her relationship with stardom and how it hasn't whole it hasn't always been the best for her and like you say lizzie this memoir is out uh in three months from now in october um this is it the woman in me i think it's called or something like that i think so and i think that this will probably be uh the point in the career and the point in the book where i think it becomes most intense because obviously a lot of people will immediately jump to

2007 and be like oh it's red etc etc But obviously lots of things have to happen before that. You know, somebody has to get to a point where that's their only response to their surroundings. And I think that this is a crucial point on that map. I think this is a crucial song in Britney's story. And I find the video, the end of the video and the end of the song where it kind of ends on that suspended, it's like it's about to lift into something major and it just sits. It doesn't go any further. It's like it's about to have an emotional revelation and it just kind of stops short of heaven.

In the music video, it's played over images of her waking up in the bath instead of dying. video it's played over images of her waking up in the bath instead of dying um the music video is all about i think towards the end britney's soul being transferred into a newborn baby as she runs towards the light you know that this baby is born at the same time and it's played simultaneously and i think that her waking up in the bath is this kind of not necessarily it was all a dream but just sort of like whoa well you know i'll wake up today and we'll go on again but i'm in a death spiral basically i'm in a at least the character that she plays in the music video very very convincingly it's every time leaves it on quite an uncertain note it's like you know happiness is always there's always the potential for it but is it ever achievable um and i find all of it like you were saying lizzie very effective and

very affecting um i will say i think the percussion kind of takes me out of it slightly i'm unsure if the tabla really suits everything else around it i wonder if there's a mix without any percussive elements that's brave enough to get to the end without feeling the need to push i feel like it like you say lizzie like kind of like not in love it kind of lilts and drifts and gets to its point in the end i mean obviously the the album version of um i'm not in love is like six and a half minutes or five and a half minutes yeah and i wish that there was a version of this like that that kind of embraced its hypnotic elements and instead of having itself grounded in the tabla it allowed it itself it just allowed itself to

drift to the end instead of i understand that you know the percussive elements do provide a certain sense of propulsion from underneath, and there is a sense of emotion that comes through them, I think, as well. But I'd love to hear a version of the song without it. But it's only a minor mark, because the percussion is light. I think the attempt to use more eastern influences in the percussion is is interesting and i think it's you know it's it's i think it's worth a go but i don't think it's the strongest decision that they could have made but i yeah i absolutely i do love this i like this like i say just as much as toxic if not ever so slightly, like by like 0.1 of a percent,

but they're two excellent singles on that album, and I'm even sort of a fan of Me Against the Music, not massive, I don't like it as much as Toxic or this, but Toxic can every time set a very high bar for Britney singles, she's always been, I think, a terrific singles artist, hasn't always hit the right notes with some of her singles. I think, you know, if her cover of I Love Rock and Roll were to be wiped off the face of the earth, I don't think anybody would feel particularly sad about that because, hey, we all have the Joan Jett version and yeah i think that if her cover of my prerogative wasn't around anymore i don't know if anybody would feel particularly sad about that either but her material in the mid to late 2000s in terms of the singles anyway is great i've always

because we're not going to get a chance to talk about anything from blackout um which is a shame because as much as i think blackout as a record is a bit overrated i think the singles from it are excellent i think gimme more was just the best one to come back with and um oh what's the name of the one now where she says do do do it's the one where it goes ha ha ha I don't know was it piece of me

yes piece of me and so give me more and like piece of me and break the ice they're all three great singles and it's a shame that we won't get to talk about any of them because none of them get to number one and those are the rules that we've imposed. I must bring up this recurring theme. According to one of the songwriters, Annette Artani,

this was written as a response to Cry Me a River by Justin Timberlake. Huh. Oh. Which spares herself as neither confirmed nor denied, so it could be a load of rubbish, but I'm just putting it out there. In what sense would this be a response to that? I don't really see any connection, to be honest. Well, I mean, Brittany and Justin have had a three-year-long relationship, right? Yeah. Sorry, yeah, of course, yeah.

Yeah, and also with Cry Me a River, I guess there is the woman in the song that we don't hear from and so maybe this is the you know the response to that it does feel a bit though like in the early to mid 2000s you know how like there are ways to go viral uh but obviously we didn't have the terminology for things going viral in the early 2000s or at least it wasn't the same kind of terminology maybe attaching your new song to a previously successful song in some tenuous way was the same way as like um here are five things you won't believe about you know this new song number three will shock you and it so it'd be like get somebody who was sort of involved

in the writing to sort of go oh yeah we did this as a response to this song or that song or whatever because we've got another one coming up at the start of 2005 haven't we um yeah so yeah um maybe that's just the way that publicists were using to get songs like on the radio and up the charts and stuff i was um i was actually quite struck looking through the chart history for every time but the fact that this i mean obviously the charts work differently in america and to be honest to get into the top 50 is the equivalent of like getting into the top 20 over here in terms of sales because of how big their charts are and stuff but every time only got to number 15 in america yeah which was a bit of a surprise i i thought it would have been if not a number one then but it's amazing to think isn't it maybe they're all just preoccupied with

usher at the moment and like they've spent all that they've spent all their pocket money and so it's just usher all the way and also the album was fairly big and had been out for a while and this is on it that's true it is the third single yes that's a good point of course yeah

okay right okay so our last song this week is this Recently I've been Hopelessly reaching Out for this girl Who's out of this world

Believe me She's got a boyfriend He drives around the bend Cause he's 23 He's in the Marines He'd kill me So many nights now I find myself thinking about her now

Cause obviously she's out of my league But how can I win, she keeps dragging me in And I know I never will be good enough for her No, no I never will be good enough for her. Okay, this is Obviously by McFly. Released as the second single from the group's debut studio album titled Room on the Third Floor. Obviously is McFly's second single to be released in the UK and they're second to reach number one.

It's not the last time we'll be discussing them on this podcast though. Obviously went straight in at number one as a brand new entry, knocking Britney Spears off the top of the charts. It stayed at number one for one week. In its first and final week at number one, it sold 42,000 copies copies beating competition from eyes on you by jay shawn which got to number six come as you are by beverly night which got to number nine and do you think i'm sexy by girls of fhm which got to number 10 that is a relic of its time when it yeah when it was not off the top of the charts, obviously fell three places to number four.

By the time it was done on the charts, it had been inside the top 100 for 13 weeks. The song was eventually certified gold in the UK. So, I don't know, relatively similar fortunes for all three songs this week. You know, sticking around for 13 to 17 weeks, you know kind of staying around for

a similar length of time but then, obviously and every time, we're in the chart for less time than I Don't Wanna Know, but ended up selling more. Andy obviously, fine with the fly Yeah, I think it's interesting to look at this still as part of the launch period of McFly,

that, you know, there was obviously a long-term plan for how they would be marketed and how they would be put out there, and it's a very canny choice, the second single, I think, because you get Five Colours in a Hair, which is like that kind of fun, cheeky vibe where, you know, they come across quite cool. You kind of want to hang out with them. And so they'll get on the parents' radar then. And then you get this as the response to Getting on the Parents' Radar, which is the most kind of friendly, kind, you know, boy that you would take home to your parents' song ever. Where, you know, I think the video is them your parents song ever where you know i think the video is them just having a mess about on a golf course and then all the lyrics in this are like

super super nice like there's nothing at all like um you know reactive or um or shocking at all in this like it's a real charm offensive that you know you listen to these guys sing anything hard this is the kind of guy who you know you would take home for tea and then he would like be very polite to your mum and he'd like walk her to the bus stop and get some biscuits for the house on the way back and he'd become one of the family like it's that the kind of people you know it just has that really nice friendly vibe about it which is almost sickly sweet to be honest that you know it's it's kind of old-fashioned to have this little you know irony about you basically um but it's a really nicely written song like i i think it kind of gets lost in the fact that this is really quite

cheesy and like i say it's quite sickly sweet but it is a nicely written song and i've always respected mcfly's ability to write very very good, I want to say ballads, not just ballads, but particularly ballads, to write very, very good ones that have nice chord progressions, that have a good way of leading you up to something and then delivering it. best ballad writing that they've got is still to come and they can write a killer pop song as well but they just they I think that's what really makes them stand out from a lot of the other kind of busted imitators and the busted hanger-ons that sort of came on at this time is that they actually really can write a decent tune and they've got that charm and they've got that marketing behind them quite frankly to really deliver it. There is a problem that I have with this song, which I'm possibly being a little bit harsh, but it's just a thing that rankles me that stood out in this. And it's far worse in other songs, but to use this as an example.

I really don't like when songs that are aimed primarily at kids, or at least, you know, sort of tween-aged kids. I really don't like when they present self-deprecation and putting yourself down as a positive attribute this sort of sense of oh I'm not good enough for this girl it's like oh that's kind of what we want boys to be saying you know it's it's a little bit insidious and i kind of wonder what like we took away from that as kids that you know this idea that if you're a nice polite british person then you know you kind of think oh even though this aren't this song is obviously clearly presenting me as you know a nice attractive young man who anybody would be happy to to go out with oh i'm

not good enough i'm not good enough and that's what makes me so endearing, is that I don't think I'm good enough. And it's not nice. The example that I always come to with this, it's many years later, but what makes you beautiful by One Direction, I really don't like, because it has this whole message of,

I like you because you feel crap about yourself, basically. And I really don't like that. And it's a thing that comes in around this time, sticks around basically permanently, but it kind of reached a peak with One Direction really, where, yeah, this whole sense of needing to play your own light down in order to be worthy of the light of others, I think is a really not nice thing to teach kids so it's

something that I noticed in this song and it's not as bad because they're talking about themselves rather than talking about the object of their desire so it's not that bad but it's something that does rankle me with this song and also it is a little bit sickly sweet it is a little bit too cheesy as well so those would kind of be

my main points against it but I do have a lot of time for mcfly it's so clear that their heart is in the right place that they actually you know are really capable songwriters and musicians who want to make uh who want to make it in the industry for the right reasons and want to be an old-fashioned pop group and i'm just kind of here for that you know there's a lot of fakery and a lot of pretension around at this time and you just don't get that with McFly, that they kind of are what they are. They're

straightforward and enjoyable and I just like that about them. So like I say the sense of what they're going for in the lyrics I think is a little bit dated and a little bit problematic but overall this does get a thumbs up from me. Lizzie, how are we feeling about Obviously by McFly?

I'm much more thumbs in the middle, but largely for the same reasons. I agree that that kind of self-deprecation can quickly turn into negging. It's like, you're insecure, don't know what for. It's like, you're too good for me. And like, what do you want me to do with that information? Am I supposed to down am i

supposed to bring myself down to your level like what just just admit that if i'm in a relationship with you there's probably a good reason for it yeah like just don't give me this self-pity parade because it's it's not attractive it's not charming it's just irritating and yeah it doesn't surprise me to realize that this is written by one of busted it's kind of written by james bourne and yeah that makes total sense um like the tune itself is fine i know we mentioned on the last episode that they're kind of showing their influences on their sleeves and this is very i'd say like i want to say beatles-esque but i don't like there's no specific song i can point to it's just a kind of gently clanging chiming guitar pop song yeah i was really thinking about this because i thought beatles as well because i was like what is the reference point here because it feels so specific and it feels so old-fashioned

and deliberately you know retro in quotation marks but it's like what what is the reference point i can't quite put my finger on it it's almost like kind of sort of buddy holly really you know really just really friendly like everyday kind of song. Or the Monkees, maybe? It's just, yeah, I can't quite find a frame of reference because they do manage to make it sound like their own sound. Like, you know McFly when you hear them. Well, yeah.

Yeah, it's like a sort of microcosm of that kind of nice soft pop British invasion stuff from the 60s but with no specific stealing off one particular act it's like it's actually quite a interesting thing that they managed to pull off with that I think well I was just thinking then it kind of reminds me of something like Herman's Hermits you know one of those like beat group also runs if you put this next to something like I'm into something good but it's like when this when this starts I thought it was going to kick into it's all about you it feels like the same song in that intro it's obviously similar it's obviously not but yeah I think like you say they

kind of have a formula and it works for them and speaking of who it works for tom fletcher who co-wrote the song about his ex-girlfriend gianna falcone whom he had recently broken up with so his ex-girlfriend had started dating a police officer who is changed to a marine in the song to make it sound quote tougher but um the two of them eventually got married in 2012 that is Fletcher and Falcone so this approach worked I guess what was her name? Gianna did you say? Giovanna Falcone

I might have said Gianna but yeah it's Giovanna isn't his actual wife? yeah yeah she recently won I'm a Celebrity yeah I think like again tune is nice enough but lyrics are a bit iffy I don't dislike it as much as something like who's David but you're entering dangerous territory here and it's something that like you mentioned Andy One Direction would do later on which is much more

egregious but we'll come to that in a couple of years if anybody out there hasn't seen this already i would recommend watching tom fletcher's wedding speech to the woman in question that we've just been discussing because he starts the mcfly medley wedding speech with obviously which i think feels appropriate but he changes all the lyrics so he keeps the melody it is nice but instead of recently i've been hopelessly reaching it's recently i've been having a wedding and then it goes on from there about it goes through all their life it's it's very very corny but it is sweet and i think it makes all subsequent groom speeches feel inadequate it's one of those things isn't it like you you know you'd have the

best man speech it'd be like well if, if she can pull up with that, she can pull up with anything. Well, I mean, at least save it for the wedding. Do you remember that video of Robbie Williams when Ida was in labour and he was singing all of his own songs and live streaming it? No.

At least save it for the wedding, you know. Yeah. It's funny that we've been listening to you both go round in circles about the reference points for this, because I had exactly the same issue. Where I've noted

down, like you say, Buddy Holly, because it kind of reminds me a little bit of That'll Be the Day, just in terms of tempo. But also, yeah, The Beatles, Herman's Hermits, Jerry and the Pacemakers, Tommy Quickly, all those kind of really early 60s Merseybeat groups. It feels like a big reference point for this. But because McFly sing and behave like a pop punk group from the 2000s,

it's such an interesting clash of styles. But one thing I love about early McFly singles is the variety across them, because it's interesting to watch a band try to find its feet as openly and transparently as this, while still sounding quite confident. You know, we've done their surf rock pastiche, we've done their Five rock pastiche um we've done their with um five colors in her hair we've done their american alternative rock thing with room on the third floor and here we get like lovely beat music and i mean obviously we don't get to discuss room on

the third floor because it doesn't get to number one um yes i think it's probably the my favorite of their first three singles um this obviously is polished and it's smooth and it's bubblegum, but it is very nicely reminiscent of all those early 60s groups that we've just been mentioning. And I think that with regards to the lyrical content, I don't know... I think we are probably supposed to see McFly as virtuous because the way that the

object of their affections is characterised we don't necessarily get her feelings and the way that the antagonist this 23 year old guy in the marines his only characteristics are his age, his profession

and the fact that he wants to kill tom fletcher and so we don't get much chance to sympathize with him particularly i would say that i think this kind of song the i am unworthy of you go and be with the other man or i am unworthy of you and i'll wait for you to come to me though if you change your mind like that sort of thing that's always you know been around in pop you know I think it goes through phases it comes back and it goes away again um but you know I mean the first thing that kind of jumped into my head if we were talking about um beat groups of the uh of the early 60s and these kinds of songs I always think Anna Go to him is a similar

kind of thing with that because it's all about you know you know you say he loves you more than me so i'll set you free go with him um you know be with him instead i'm not worthy etc etc i forget which um album that's on is that on please please me yeah yeah um and so it's kind of always been there but just you know it's always been phrased in slightly different ways and i do think that we are supposed to see mcfly as particularly virtuous and worthy of our affections in this but i think in the second verse they start to turn it into a bit of a joke because like he's gone so insane that he's like right that's it i'm going to la like i cannot bear to be around this person if i can't be with her so i'm going to get

her out of my life i'm going to make the decision to get out of hers um so off to la they go yeah and that's where they'll stay for two years all right i think they yes um i think they play the unlucky schmuck relatively well in this just the oh well i'll never get a boyfriend would kill me anyway so whatever you know best to just leave it behind and i think they draw as much comedy out of the situation as i think that they can and it is a relatively funny song i think and it's memorable and you know the harmonies are nice and adorable and well done them etc but I think like you Andy I think it's too sugary

I think that it's a bit too sweet in the end it becomes a bit saccharine and a bit sickly after a certain point and I do agree that this kind of you know, virtuous,

it's not quite nice guy behavior, but it's teetering over the edge. It's a fine line. Yes. White knighting, like unnecessarily for the object of your desires, where it's like, oh, you're so special that I just,

I, I don't even come near you. And this is what I mean. It's like this, they are being positioned as, you know, they are a boy band. They are young. They are attractive. They're nice.

We're supposed to fancy them. So it comes across as false modesty. And that's what I don't like about it, that it kind of implies that, oh, this is what you do to get girls to like you, is you are falsely modest and you white knight for them. Nah, nah, don't buy it. Don't like it don't like it yeah yeah and to an extent um i do agree with both of your comments uh in that regard um

but the last word i wanted to have on this beyond saying that i do quite like this um more than i don't want to know but absolutely nowhere near as much as every time just comparing it to the other songs this week but on the Hits21 Twitter feed this week I will be sharing photos of myself performing this at a school X Factor competition around Christmas 2005

early 2006 me and a guy in my year whose face I will blur out just to, I mean not that his identity necessarily needs protecting but on the off chance that it does I'm going to do that anyway the video I'm trying to find the video of it but it's on an old camcorder cartridge which I still have but it's in a box in an office somewhere and so it'd be a bit of a bother trying to rip that to MP4 this fast. So rest assured I'm on the case.

I'll get to it as soon as I can. McFly have number ones for a little while. This isn't the last time we'll be discussing them, so hopefully I can get hold of it before we discuss them for the last time. But yeah, so I'll be sharing some pictures out. It was me and a guy in my year and we, I think there were like 12 acts that night and I think we got

told afterwards that we came like 5th or something the winner that night were a band called A Bullet Wasted and it just but they wrote their own songs and played guitars and stuff so they got then the i remember the

winning prize was 100 pounds for the uh for the winning act that's a hell of a lot for a kid there wow yeah um well it was a they were a four piece um so i think they all in and only ended up with 25 quid each but they said said on stage, I remember, that they were going to pull all their money together and buy. And they absolutely screamed, an Xbox 360! In front of a room of like 100 people who were all cheering them on and stuff. I seem to remember the group that came in third were a group of girls from another school,

from a local primary school who were in year 6 who did a version of Summer of 69 Insolopis last minute ballot entries, it's a conspiracy I tell you I think we got told afterwards that we came like 5th or 6th or something

which wasn't too bad because I seem to remember the video, we sound okay we probably sound better than i think um me especially but there is a photo of me getting quite excited after the performance and while the host in inverted commas is speaking to us um i for some reason spontaneously jump for no obvious reason but i might have to watch the video for that to become clear so thank you very much everybody for listening

this week, before we go, we're just gonna do our little check that we always do to see whether any songs that we've been discussing this week are gonna end up in the vault or the pie hole so, I Don't Wanna Know by Mario Winans that's not going in anywhere for me

what about you Andy? No me neither and Lizzie? No not for me Every Time by Britney Spears I'm putting that in the vault. Lizzie what about you? Yeah that's definitely going in the vault for me and Andy

what about you? Not for me but it's barely necessary just not quite at that level for me I'm being harsh fair enough and obviously by McFly I'm not putting that anywhere no

hell no so that's it for this week's episode thank you very much for listening once again when we come back we'll be covering the period between the 4th of july and the 31st of july so this this year has slowed down a fair bit i think there's a lot of one and two week number ones around at the moment but the longer runs at number one will be back before the end of the year thank you very much and we will see you next time so bye bye for now see you bye