Hits 21 - 2005 (2): Ciara, Elvis Presley, Eminem

Episode Date: September 17, 2023

Hello again, everyone, and welcome back to Hits 21, the show that's taking a look back at every UK #1 hit single of the 21st century - from January 2000, right through to the present day. Twitter: @Hits21UK Email: [e-mail] Now That's What I Call Musings: https://open.spotify.com/show/2BiY89dz9uRlj6nJSI7ucb Vault: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5O5MHJUIQIUuf0Jv0Peb3C?si=e4057fb450f648b0 Piehole: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/2FmWkwasjtq5UkjKqZLcl4

Hi there everybody, welcome back to Hits21, where me, Rob, me, Andy, and me, Lizzie, all look back at every single UK number one of the 21st century, from January 2000 right through to the present day. If you want to get in touch with us, you can. You can find us over on Twitter. We are at Hits21UK. That is at Hits21UK. And you can email us too. Just send it on over to Hits21Podcast at gmail.com. Thank you so much for joining us again. We are currently looking back at the year 2005,

our second episode of that year. This week, we are going to be covering the period between the 23rd of January and the 12th of February in that year. Not many number one singles lasting for a very long time at this point in 2005. Last week's poll winner was Jailhouse Rock, proving that Pop from the 50s survived into the 21st century fairly well. So, yeah, well done to Elvis. It wasn't tough competition, to be fair.

I mean, well done to elvis but he was fighting against steve bruckstein and himself so you know um andy before we get going you have something you'd like to share with us yeah just a bit of shameless self-promotion before we get started um presumably the listeners of our show are fans of marathoning through the chronology of pop music history. If you're not, then this might be the wrong place for you to be. But therefore, I just wanted to mention the launch of a new podcast, which myself and my very good friend Jay should have hopefully launched by the time this episode goes live, called Now That's What I Call Musings, which,

as you may have gathered, is going to be musing on every single Now album, the UK Now That's What I Call Music catalogue. We're going to be going through each one of them, sort of picking out our highlights, our lowlights, and some rediscovered Spotlight songs that kind of have been forgotten by history, but are preserved on Now albums. That's going to be launching, as I say, by the time you hear this. It'll be available on Spotify, on Apple Music, on wherever you get your podcasts. And yeah, give us a listen. Give us a go. Tell your friends. It's really good, I hope. But I'll let you be the judge of whether it's really good. But it is. Yeah, so that's now that what i call musings which is launching over the weekend so please do enjoy yeah cool thank you very much for letting

us know i will also be tuning into that um so on to this week's episode and as always we're going to give you some news headlines uh this time from january and february 2005 in February 2005. Christopher Pearson, a 40 year old man from London, is jailed for 6 months after sending emails to the families of people missing after the Boxing Day Tsunami, saying that their relatives were confirmed dead, when they weren't. Pearson, who had recently lost his own son at the time, had pretended to be from the foreign office when sending the emails. Chris Smith, who was Tony Blair's culture secretary from 1997 to 2001, reveals that he has been HIV positive for 17 years. Smith was the first openly gay male British MP, having revealed his sexuality in 1984. He is currently master of Pembroke College in Cambridge. And in the US, video sharing website YouTube officially goes online. It would be another

two months before the first video would be posted though. That first video was called Me at the Zoom and was uploaded by founder Jawad Karim and can still be found on the website today where it has 284 million views at the time of recording this. At the top of the UK box office, it's still Meet the Fockers for the duration of this episode. But on question time, a member of the audience uses the final question of the night to propose to his girlfriend who, thank God, said yes. Christ, blimey.

EastEnders celebrates its 20th anniversary on the air with a special episode that depicts the murder of Dan Watts, better known as Dirty Dan, played by Leslie Grantham. Over 14 million people, including me and my sister, watched the episode, which meant that it finished the year as the second most watched TV broadcast of the year. The most watched TV broadcast in the UK belongs to an episode of Coronation Street that aired three days later, when 14.5 million people watched Martin Platt

break up with Katie Harris. And in wrestling, Dave Bautista wins the 2005 Royal Rumble match after eliminating the other last man standing, John Cena. But that's underselling the... Yeah, it's kind of underselling the story a little bit though because this is quite a famous

fuck-up in wrestling history. You see, what was supposed to happen was Dave Bautista was supposed to eliminate John Cena and go on to the main event of WrestleMania, which he did. But only after the match was restarted. See, what happened was they did a spot where Bautista had John Cena ready for a powerbomb and they went into a corner. And what was supposed to happen was, as far as I know, David East was supposed to just kind of launch him out. Problem is, he went over the rope at the same time as Cena and they both hit the floor at the same time, which meant that technically neither of them won.

So in the midst of all this confusion, you had like two referees, both in the ring like one raising one hand one raising the other hand nobody in the crowd knows what's going on nobody on commentary knows what's going on and to cap it all off the chairman of the company Vince McMahon charges down to the ring at this point he is beat red he throws off suit jacket. He marches down to the ring. And as soon as he gets in the ring, his legs just give way. Like they just turn to jelly. So what has actually happened here is he has somehow torn both his quads getting into the ring. So now he's chewing out these two referees while he's just sat on the mat

with his hands on his hips and his legs stretched out so he's like sitting upright all the while nobody knows what's going on nobody knows that vince mcmahon has torn both his quads so it's like why is the chairman of the company just sitting here while two referees are shouting down to him meanwhile you've got you've got two of the biggest stars of the company just sitting here while two referees are shouting down to him? Meanwhile, you've got two of the biggest stars in the company just sort of looking around going, well, this is happening. And then eventually they restart the match and it finishes in about 30 seconds to a minute

when Dave Bautista actually throws John Cena out like he was supposed to. But yeah, it gave us one of the funniest moments in wrestling history, which is everything going wrong and then a horrible man getting injured. I'm going to have to watch that. There's so much going on there. I feel like someone should paint that as a scene because there's just so much happening there.

Andy, how are the album charts looking right now yeah well it's a short period of time uh that we're covering this week so only a few to talk about but two out of three of them are new um first of all we've got push the button by the chemical brothers not the sugar babes we've got the chemical brothers, not the Sugar Babes, we've got the Chemical Brothers, we've pushed the button, who went platinum, single platinum, with that album and was at the top for one week. But a week later, it was toppled by an album that feels like it was substantially bigger than this, but it only went one times platinum, which is Tourist by Athlete,

which is that album that your dad had because it was the law that every dad had to own a copy of Tourist by Athlete. It's not for me, I'll say that. But it was for a lot of people. And then at the end of the period that we're covering this week, Keane returned to number one again with Hopes and Fears, which was one of last year's highest-selling albums, went nine times platinum.

That returned to number one because Keane are very much still at their height, still releasing singles off their album at this point. So, yeah, it's a big old month for your kind of indie dad genre at this time. Yeah. Okay. Lizzie, how are things in the States the states well i've got nothing to report for singles this week because let me love you by mario stays at number one until the first week of march so i will move on to albums first up this week we have the documentary by the game

which debuted at number one with over half a million sales in its first week. It spent two non-consecutive weeks at number one in the US, but peaked at number seven in the UK during this same time. And finally this week we have Kenny Chesney and his album, Be As You Are, Songs From An Old Blue Chair, which got to number one for one week in the US, but didn't even chart over here, as is often the case with American country music. And that's it for me.

What an incredibly pretentious album title that is. Songs from the Old Blue Chair. Come on. There's only one genre that could possibly belong to, isn't there? Pretty much. Thank you both very much much and we are going to

press on to the first song of this week's episode and it is this I'm handling broads. All I need is me a few seconds more. And this is rap. Tell the lady to bring my lap. And I ain't coming back, so you can put it caught right there. I'm the truth. And I ain't got nothing to prove. And you can ask anybody, because they seem to do it. Barricades, I run right through them.

I'm used to them. Throw all the dirt you want. There's no use. Still won't have a pent up in a fabulous room. Bone her back. Picking out a basket of fruit. I love you, boy. Yeah, freaking pretty love you, too.

You know how I do. That good, that good. You may look at me and think that I'm just a young girl, but I'm not just a young girl, baby. This is what I'm looking for. Sexy and up in it, down to spend it, like that skin in the stone. I'm not being too dramatic, that's the way by Sierra featuring Petey Pablo. Released as the lead single from her debut studio album titled Goodies, Goodies is the

first single to be released by Ciara in the UK and so of course it's her first number one. However, it is her only number one single to date. Goodies reached number one during its third week on the chart, knocking Elvis Presley off the top spot. It stayed at number one for one week. In its first and only week atop the charts, it sold 21,000 copies, beating competition from Galvanized by the Chemical Brothers, which got to number 3, Wires by Athlete, which got to number 4,

Tumble and Fall by Fido, which got to number 5, Breathe In by Lucy Silvers, which got to number 6, and Take Me Away by Stonebridge, which got to number 9. When it was knocked off the top of the charts, Goodies dropped two places to number 3. By the time it was done on the charts, it had been inside the top 100 for 14 weeks. The song is currently officially certified

silver in the UK as of 2023. Andy, take us away for this week. Yeah, I mean, it's definitely not the type of song that was made for me because I have expressed in the past my dislike of this sort of thing. But I had to give this a little while to rumble around in my head and to think about it, and I'm definitely more keen on it now than I was a few weeks ago. The thing about this is that when I read the name on the page of this song,

I was like, I don't know that one, never heard of that. And I never would have identified it from the title or the artist because this is one of those songs that when i listen to it i'm like oh it's that oh yeah but i never ever would have known what it was called or who sang it um and i think that partly is wrapped up in the fact that in retrospect this sounds a little bit anonymous this kind of sounds like a lot of artists of this era could have done this. The name that immediately came to mind was Pussycat Dolls, who of course their big break is right round the corner, and it sounded exactly like something that they would have

done in 2005, and that many other artists were kind of taken run with right up until about 2008. And it's really not something I'm a huge fan of the kind of I'm going to take Lizzie's job for this week of inventing a genre name the kind of I don't know sexy sexy hand clap shuffle

sort of thing where it's just like you know I'm going to speak in a breathy voice and use some strained metaphor that refers to my genitals and it's all going to be about oh shall we go at it or shall we not

let's decide over the course of three sexual minutes you know it's that sort of thing that it just doesn't really appeal to me and there is kind of a straight line from this through don't you through like glamorous and that sort of thing all the way through

to like low which I absolutely hate. So I think I just kind of listened to this and was like, oh no, not this sort of thing. And I don't like that whistle at the top, which I know is a bit controversial because that's kind of the whole thing of the song, but I really don't like that whistle sound. But, but, but, and it's a big but, I think this one has really benefited from context that although yes it does sound a lot like Pussycat Dolls and there will be a lot of stuff like this in the future this is the first of this kind of thing that we've really had and I think that deserves credit that in the

context of where we are right now this is very fresh this is something very different and I can see why this would have really taken off at the time that it sort of is a natural evolution from early noughties R&B which was like Mabu into something a bit more racy a bit more against the grain and so I kind of appreciate what this is doing here I think it would have been very exciting to hear at the time it's not my genre for sure and i still don't really like this sort of thing but i absolutely do appreciate what this is doing and if nothing else it's an original song we've got an original song at number one for the first

time since like october 2004 or something like that um so i was just made up to have something to really chew over. So, yes, I did like this, actually. And when I went into it, I was expecting to give this, you know, a pretty emphatic thumbs down. But no, I've changed my mind on it and I would give this a thumbs up purely for what it's bringing to the show, which is going to very, very much dominate the airwaves over the next couple of years.

So, yeah, an interesting one to cover, I thought, yeah. Okay, Lizzie, how about you? Yeah, like you, Andy, I'm just relieved to be like encountering music from this year again. And even this is technically from 2004. But again, it sounds like the moment. If I think the music of 2004, 2005, it's this sort of thing I think of. So, yeah, nice to be back in this zone. I think because I mentioned when we covered Yeah that there was a response song to this that we were going to cover, and it's this one. Ah, I see. OK.

This is the counterpart to Yeah from the woman's perspective, but it's kind of... It's different in that it's sort of trying, saying, you know, well, actually, I'm not like that. I'm not one of these easy girls that you sing about. I'm sort of my own independent woman. And so, yeah, I appreciate it in that regard as well. I think the production is very similar, but I think that's okay. It's kind of Little John's style. It's what you expect from him and I think it works here. I think Sierra's got a

really good voice. Again, like I say, I like the message of the song. I think the one thing that really lets it down is PT Pablo. I said with Y yeah that ludicrous was one of the best things about the song and that he kind of elevated it above just okay whereas this one kind of has the opposite problem in that pt pablo's flow is kind of anonymous and almost a bit skeevy in parts. Like, you know, I got a sick reputation for handling broads, and it was so damn hot but so young. It was like, ugh. Oh, dear. Yeah, and I think his flow is just kind of mumbly

and not really there. I feel like if you had a better wrapper on this, it might have elevated it to something that I'd put in the vault I think it maybe just misses out on that benchmark but I remember at the time it was kind of accepted

that Sierra was the next big star like she was going to be on sort of a Beyonce level she never quite got to that but you listen to this and i think it's fairly easy to see why that was expected of her you're working with arguably the biggest producer in the world at the minute yeah there's sean garrett right yeah like sean garrett little john as i mentioned um yeah and you're in crunk as well which is huge at this time

and yeah it's pretty easy to see why she might have taken off and being the next big star and she does have some other hits for sure but don't think it ever quite got back to this level which is a shame but

at least we do have this to talk about and yeah I think this is, I do think this is really good but if only it didn't have the rap bit in it which I feel awful for saying but yeah it just needed a better rapper to cover this and like it sort of lets down what i think is an otherwise really good song but yeah on the on the whole i'm thumbs up on it can i ask lizzie just because i'm interested as someone who seems to be more naturally you know interested in this kind of track is it like i mean do you share what i said about how this kind of has become a bit sort of retrospectively cliched that you know there's a lot of stuff that comes after that sounds like this.

Am I being unfair or what do you think? I think you're right in terms of just the overall sound in general. I think I do kind of get what you're saying, though. Then again, we have milkshake the year before this. I think it's on the way kind of with the the metaphors thing kind of carrying it through um this uh sean garrett ends up being responsible andy you mentioned in the pussycat dolls uh sean garrett works with them for buttons which again uses a buttons like a button as like a a metaphor or like a gateway towards sexual content

for three and a half to four minutes. And yeah, I also, Milkshake kind of came to mind from recent times in the charts and also the one that kind of does away with metaphor entirely, which was My Neck, My Back. Yeah, of course.

Yeah, no metaphors to be had there and that particular song um for goodies uh uh because i think this does live or die based on whether you like that whistly siren thing yeah and if you enjoy it or if you can tune it out then this probably works pretty well for you but if not not, yikes, you're not in for a good time, like, at all, because that's the only thing it does. Thankfully, I sort of do, because it reminds me a lot of, like, G-Funk Lowrider stuff from the 90s mixed in with a bit of Naughty's Crunk.

It means it pushes that button within me. I think that beyond that, this is pretty stylish and suave anyway. I don't think Sierra's got the best range, but she sounds at home here. But like you Lizzie, I wish that Petey Pablo, I wish that he was Busta Rhymes in this. Or Ludacris.

Or Ludacris. Just someone who does that kind of rapid fire flow, but with better initiation um i think he does a decent job pete pablo and their performances go well together um and i can it's easy to see why this was such a huge hit in america because they were like you know like we've like you two have covered they were eating this stuff up around this time and it was really popular um but this just doesn't get me that excited overall i think i start getting a bit bored of the goodies

cookies metaphor after a while the whole they stay in the jar thing like i'm sympathetic to and interested in the messages and the meanings behind the song but as a total package i'm a bit less uh convinced by it uh when it comes to songs like this from sierra i prefer the was it the follow-up one two step yeah when you want it the beat on that is insane proper like you know like missy elliott at the peak of her powers sort of thing it's a real shame we don't get to talk about that. That gets to, like, number three, I think, in the charts, maybe. But anyway, this is good. It's a good, like, breakout single.

I don't love it, though. I think, like you, Lizzie, I'm a bit, you know, thumbs up, but not too enthusiastic, if you know what I mean. So, anything more to say about Goodies by Ciara? No. No? Is there any advance on Sexy Handclap Shuffle? I will give you a chance, Lizzie,

because you're always better at these things. No, I'm going to have to leave that one to the listeners, I think. Jeremy's sex mix, maybe? We will move swiftly on and the second song up this week is this It's now or never Come hold me tight Kiss me my darling Be mine tonight Tomorrow will be too late It's now or never, my love won't wait When I first saw you With your smile so tender My heart was captured My soul

surrendered I spent a lifetime Waiting for the right time Now that you're near The time is here At last This is It's Now or Never by Elvis Presley. Released as a standalone single, It's Now or Never is Elvis Presley's 27th single to be reissued in the UK,

his 138th single to be released overall in the UK, and his 21st single to reach number one. However, it is his last number one. The song is a re-release of the single which originally reached number one back in 1960. It's Now or Never went straight in at number one as a brand new entry, knocking Sierra off the top of the charts. It stayed at number 1 for one week. In its first and only week atop the charts, it sold a total of 22,000 copies, beating competition from Only You by Ashanti, Grief Never Grows Old by One World Project , Shine by Love Freaks, Do This Do That by Freefaller which got to number 8, Hey Now by Xzibit which got to number 9, and Penny and Me by Hanson which

got to number 10. When it was knocked off the top of the charts, it's now or never dropped 13 places to number 14. By the time the reissue was done on the charts, the song had been inside the top 100 for a total of 23 weeks. The song is currently officially certified two times platinum, so double platinum in the UK,

as of 2023. Lizzy, Elvis is back. He refuses to leave the building, as you so hilariously put on the link for the last episode. What do we make of It's Now or Never? Yeah, we'll get him out eventually. Yeah.

Like, swat at him with a broom. We had a bit of a chat last week about the oldest song we've covered on the podcast and we hazarded a guess that it might have been Jailhouse Rock. Then, as the week went on, we did a bit more digging, and it turns out that this might comfortably be the oldest song we've ever covered, given that this one is a rewrite of an old Neapolitan song

composed in 1898. Oh, Solomio. Wow. Oh, Solomio, yeah. It was originally rewritten in English in 1949 when American singer Tony Martin recorded There's No Tomorrow. And then about 10 years later, Elvis heard the recording while he was stationed in Germany with the US Army. And he recorded a private version of the song. So when he was discharged, the songwriters Aaron Schroeder and Wally Gold wrote a new version especially for

him and here we are so there was about 60 years between the original recording and the Elvis version and then another 46 years between the Elvis recording and this getting to number one again I will say that because this has new lyrics and is written for Elvis, I'm not 100% sure whether I would count it, but it's a fair shout. It's a good contender. It's the oldest tune. It's the oldest tune, yeah. Yeah, I quite like this one. It has quite a distinct Italian sound to it that's hard to explain

without any specific knowledge of Italian music history but maybe that's just because I'm used to it being used as a sort of incidental piece in English speaking culture and media to denote Italy itself much like how it was used as a jingle on the Cornetto adverts for a couple of years. And that's the version that always gets stuck in my head. So it's like, it's now or never, give it to me, delicious ice cream from Italy. Every single time that I have played this or sung this in preparation for this episode, my husband has been going, I want Cornetto, give me Cornetto.

Exactly, Exactly. And that is the power of advertising. So Andy, tell us about your new podcast. I'm only kidding. As we've discussed previously, Elvis as a performer was a bit of a shapeshifter. I feel like he could adapt his persona to fit the music he was creating.

And that in turn led to his broad appeal across generations. I feel like he could adapt his persona to fit the music he was creating. And that in turn led to his broad appeal across generations. Like last week we saw Elvis the Young Rebel and then Elvis the slightly sleazy Lothario. And in 2002 even we encountered Elvis the Las Vegas Showman. This time around it's Elvis the old world European romantic, I guess. Yeah. And like this version leans heavily on that Italian origin aspect. And even Elvis himself seems to put on a bit of an Italian affectation in the song. Like, with your smile so tender.

Like, I still do like the song, and I think Elvis' voice suits it really well, but I did find it slightly difficult to ignore that sense of pastiche that comes with it. I suppose you could say the same about Jailhouse Rock, which was Elvis doing his best Chuck Berry impression but Elvis's performance in that is both more compelling and more historically significant than this one. Like I can't really imagine a generation of musicians hearing this and dreaming of being

a rock and roll star the way I can with Jailhouse Rock or even One Night but it's similarly not hard to see why this is such a huge hit. It's an archetypal song performed by an iconic singer so it's no wonder really that a hundred years can pass and it can still be a hit. So yeah on the whole I do like this not as much as jailhouse rock or one night but i think yeah i'd say overall it's a thumbs up yeah i feel kind of similarly to you lizzie in the sense that i kind of put this somewhere between jailhouse rock and i got stung uh so basically one night uh it kind of a similar position to that um maybe a little bit less than one night because i think it lacks the intensity and the speed that i really really took to

with uh jailhouse rock but it's more direct at least than something like i got stung um oh yeah it's weird though because this feels just as steeped in history as Jailhouse Rock. It feels like its legacy is virtually identical but this doesn't loom over me in the way that Jailhouse Rock does. I find this easier to

confront and to discuss. Sure. I feel more comfortable saying that, like, I'm positive towards this, but kind of coolly so. I totally know what you mean about the pastiche-y Italian flavours. At the beginning, just the little trill on the acoustic, the...

Just, you know, just in case you were mistaken as to where this song was from, but, um, yeah, so I'm happy to just kind of remain reserved about this, um, I don't really have much more to say about this, I just think it's a pleasantly performed hit that has become a classic, um, it has a big chart history, well done to Elvis and all them number ones, It has a big chart history. Well done to Elvis on all them number ones. I've been reading a little bit more into what the whole thing was with Elvis in 2005, and it seems that not only were loads of where like you used to buy um the first edition of something you'd normally see an advert for it off the tv and then they would send you the first edition with a box and then in order to pressure you to fill the box you would then have to buy every other version of every other edition of the so of the this this long-running series like if

you bought an encyclopedia they would send you the first volume and then a box so you would have to buy the other five volumes to make it feel like a complete set and it seems they did a similar thing with this where you have the elvis box set but they release all of the singles week by week so that you can fill up this elvis box box set of all of these number one singles or all of his singles or something like that um so if you don't then you're left with a half empty box and that's why elvis spends the rest of the year in the top 10 uh this is the last this last number one to date. I don't know if he'll ever get any more.

I feel like the best opportunity for that to happen would have been around the time of the Elvis film in a way that the Barbie soundtrack has kind of taken over the charts in the last sort of two months. But yeah, I think I would have been fine buying this at the time if I was an Elvis fan. I think it's one of his better known ones, isn it double platinum uh so yeah yeah so andy how about you yeah i i mean i pretty much agree um with what both of you have said my feelings on it are possibly a little bit

more complex but not in any kind of sense of you know any more any more developed. It's just, I just, I'm a little bit less sure about how I feel about it, purely because this might not be Vegas Elvis, but it's definitely a bit of a starting point along that journey. It's definitely a moment where crooning a lovesick Elvis, who is now largely appealing to the mums, I would think. Oh, yeah. That version of Elvis really kind of starts here.

And I don't sort of put this on this song because I actually really do like this. And I think Elvis performs it really, really well. I think his vocals on this, although it's not a particularly wide range, his control on this is exceptional. And so that big leap at the end, my love, oh, Wade, it's just, he executes it really, really well. And so I do like this. And I think he's very, very good as a ballad singer.

You know, there's no doubt about that, really. But because this is a little bit of a spark that will light the fuse that goes to, you know, that awful, awful, you know, an American trilogy version of Elvis in Vegas, I just kind of think, hmm, this is a bit of an original sin for Elvis. It's one of those ones that if people list it as their absolute favourite Elvis song,

I'm a little bit like, hmm, really? I wouldn't say they're my absolute favourite. It's a bit, kind of makes me think a bit. It doesn't trigger me in the way that The Wonder of You always does. That, to me, is always a red flag. When people start singing The Wonder of You, I'm like, oh, that's rubbish. It's rubbish. That's just, like, so cheesy.

And that's a real stepping stone along the way to that sad and lonely Elvis, you know, who saw through to the end of his life. With this, like, I do absolutely agree with both of you that it's just very, very pleasant. It's really well instrumented. Elvis performs it really well. I think it has a good claim to possibly

being the most successful comeback single ever. He'd had his break to join the army and then he gets this which is just an absolutely enormous hit i can't really think of any other big comeback song that has been quite as much of a line in the sand as this was for anyone um but correct me if i'm wrong on that i just couldn't think of anything when i was considering that um yeah it's it's very very successful at what it does. I can totally see why

this is so popular and I do like it. I very much enjoyed revisiting this and particularly enjoyed Elvis' vocals on it and appreciating how technically talented he was as a vocalist and as a performer. I really, really agree with what you said,

Lizzie, about Elvis being a chameleon in terms of his style um i i think for me one of the standouts from his whole discography in terms of um what he does with his vocals is his cover of fever um where it's very very kind of breathy and very kind of like trembling and sort of um i'm trying to think of someone to compare it to almost like a kind of kylie monogue kind of you know that kind of vocals like that you know it's just very very like so unlike him and you really almost wouldn't recognize him singing it and i don't think he gets enough appreciation for that that he really refines his voice to whatever song he's singing um yeah and that obviously goes wrong when he is told i'll basically just do

everything a little bit like it's now or never or are you lonesome tonight um and that that's a shame when that happens and so i kind of like i say look at this as kind of the original scene along that journey but it is pretty good i definitely do enjoy this um it might be my favorite song of the week to be honest um it's it's it's a bit of a tie but yeah no yeah big thumbs up on this one pretty much yeah yeah it's interesting that you mention that you know this this kind of period of elvis's career because i mean it wasn't released as a proper single until 65 but i think this is around the time that he does crying in the chapel and he also does um he does do yeah your lonesome tonight is also a really old song isn't it as well yeah um so yeah there's a

few um standards and covers creeping in to Elvis's output. Some of them he does really, really well, to be fair. I don't want to make it sound like, oh, I hate all his attempts at the old standards. You know, some of them he really does do very well. It's just when he gets to his later life and there's live recordings of him doing My Way and stuff like that, and it's just, oh, come on, this is not you, this is not what you're here for.

But, I mean, there's other covers he does of songs that are not his and very old, like In the Ghetto and stuff like that, that actually he does a good take on those songs. He does have that ability to try something different and make it work for him. And I don't want to make it sound like, oh, I just hate everything past 1958, because that's not true at all. It's a very gradual decline,

and this is just a little bit of a pointer along that journey, I think. I totally agree, Andy, that he does sort of get into a bit of a rut with those old standards, particularly later on in his career, but you still get glimpses of that old energy energy on like his last single way down so i think he was still capable of it but he was just he clearly got very comfortable in that that softer realm yeah and there's some stuff that you you listen to and you could be forgiven for thinking it's early elvis when it's actually mid or late elvis i was always really surprised when because i really like you're the Devil in Disguise

and I was really surprised to find out that that was like 64, 65. Of course. When I definitely would have put that in the 50s. So he was definitely still capable of that right up until the end, really. But just people just weren't interested anymore. And he was put in a box in terms of his style and what he does. He was put in that white suit forever more I'm curious

Andy, because this is probably the last time that we'll get to discuss Elvis properly, because it comes very late in his career but it's a song I've always really enjoyed so I'm curious about how you feel about it Suspicious Minds? Not a fan

but well, I think there is the bones of a good song in there and it could be quite a nice ballad that's sort of in the vein of something like can't take my eyes off you you know where it has that kind of you know people can enjoy this at a family party kind of thing my issues with that are not really to do with elvis i'd like i think it's so much too long that it's farcical um i think it's really overblown and overproduced. But I actually like... It's potentially okay, Suspicious Minds. I don't think it's representative of him at all.

And I don't like how it always seems to be like track one on Elvis' greatest hits, because it's really not very representative of him. But it's all right. Yeah. All right then. So, on to our third and final song this week. And it is...

this. Alright then, so, on to our third and final Be my king, turn it on, let me be And I'll wave you down, toy soldier I'm supposed to be the soldier who never closes composure Even though I hold the weight of the whole world on my shoulders I ain't never supposed to show it My crew ain't supposed to know it Even if it means going toe to toe with the Benzino It don't matter, I never drag them in battles

That I can handle unless I absolutely have to I'm supposed to set an example I need to be the leader, my crew looks for me to guide them Listen, shit ever does pop off, I'm supposed to be beside them That job said I tried to squash it, it was too late to stop it There's a certain line you just don't cross and it cost it I heard him say Haley's name on a song and I just lost it It was crazy, this shit went way beyond some Jay-Z and Nas shit

And even though the battle was won, I feel like we lost it I spent so much energy on it, honestly I'm exhausted And I'm so caught in it, I almost feel I'm the one who caused it This ain't what I'm in hip-hop for, it's not why I got in it That was never my object for someone to get killed Why would I want to destroy something I helped build? It wasn't my intentions, my intentions were good I went through my whole career without ever mentioning it

That was just out of respect for not running my mouth And talking about something that I knew nothing about Frustrated, told me stay out, this just wasn't my beef, so I did. I just fell back, watched and gritted my teeth while he's all over TV. Now I'm talking to a man who literally saved my life. Like, fuck it, I understand. This is business, and this shit just isn't none of my business. But still knowing this shit could pop off at any minute. Okay, this is Like Toy Soldiers by Eminem.

Released as the third single from his fourth studio album titled Encore, Like Toy Soldiers is Eminem's 16th single overall to be released in the UK and his sixth to reach number one. And it's not the last time that we'll be discussing Eminem on this podcast. Like Toy Soldiers went straight in at number one as a brand new entry knocking Elvis Presley off the top of the charts. It stayed at number one for one week. In its first and only week atop the charts it sold 30,000 copies beating competition from we've just talked about it are you lonesome tonight by Elvis Presley which got to number two almost here by Brian McFadden and Delta Goodrum which got to number three so here we are double a side with positive tension by block party which got to number five and I

just want to live by good Charlotte number nine when it was knocked off the top of the charts like toy soldiers dropped two got to number nine when it was knocked off the top of the charts. Like Toy Soldiers dropped two places to number three. By the time it was done on the charts, it had been inside the top 100 for 15 weeks. The song is currently officially certified platinum in the UK as

of 2023. So, Andy, are you finished off with Elvis? You can start with Eminem. How do you feel? Thank you. Well, I feel like I'm going to slightly break your heart a little bit here, Rob, because I know that, you know, not to spoil your thoughts, I know this isn't one of your absolute favourites of Eminem's, but I suspect that you do like it quite a lot. And in the way that I've grown to appreciate goodies over the last few weeks,

every time I've listened to this my score for this has gone down and down and down um partly because i've been listening to the original toy soldiers um and i've realized that everything i like about like toy soldiers comes from the original song toy soldiers um it's just better in every way, unfortunately for me. I think this song really relies really heavily on a very very good sample which is very effective, very evocative, really has that kind of 80s malaise style to it which I absolutely love. I love songs like that, like The Way It Is and Everybody Wants to Rule the World and stuff like that. I love that kind of solemn synth pop sort of thing from the late 80s,

and the original by Matika really has that in absolute spades, and so it's a great sample to hear here. But Eminem's part of it, it just doesn't really interest me at all. Like, I get that the issues that are being raised here are ones that are very close to Eminem's heart and he is putting himself on the line and exposing his real feelings about the world he lives in now um and I appreciate that but I just I mean I'm not the audience for this at all and I'm kind of struggling to relate. I think it's just a very, very niche topic that he's getting into and it's one that, although I'm not saying all life is easy for rich people or anything like that,

it is kind of hard not to think, well, it's kind of hard to feel sad about the things that you're feeling, Eminem, because you're one of the most rich and famous people in the world and everybody loves you. So it's just a little bit indulgent for me and I kind of find it a bit hard to relate to but that's not to say that I'm not like intrigued by um his regret at the way things have got in the rap scene it's just really not something I know much about it's not something I'm particularly engaged in as a listener because it's just not really my world. And it goes on and on and on and on and on.

There's no reason why this needs to be almost touching five minutes long. I get that that's quite brutal, but we've heard a lot of Eminem on this podcast. You know, we've had some really good songs from him, really, really good songs from him. And one that's not so good. But he's set a high bar, and I think he's just

kind of running out of things to say a little bit here and it kind of becomes you know a bit of a cliche um as the years go by to have a very very good sample that acts as a chorus and then you do your bit in between and you rely on that sample as a bedrock eminem's kind of better than that and he shouldn't need to do that but he does here and so I think if you were to lose that sample and replace it with something less effective this song would just drop through the floor and for that I have to kind of give it a little bit of punishment. It's not the worst thing in the world but it's a bit of a chore to get through to be honest and I'm just always waiting for another chorus so sadly, it's a little bit of a thumbs down for me.

And I'm really only being so harsh because he is capable of so much better, and we've had so much better from him. But I just think this misses the mark for me, to be honest, and rides by on the glories of a different song. I'm not that upset, I promise. Lizzie, how are you feeling about like toy soldiers well in fairness andy the last time eminem did a chorus we got just lose it yeah so yeah i'm kind of thankful that we didn't get that at least um i am warmer on this than you i think you have a lot of

good points particularly about eminem's verses and that there's maybe a little bit lacking in terms of content, but I think I come at it from a slightly different angle. I do agree with you that the sample is absolutely killer and it kind of out Kanye's Kanye at his own game. But yeah, I think that's kind of the obvious point. In terms of the lyrics though, Rob, you mentioned something in a little group chat

that kind of resonated with me in that I think it is quite an admirable statement that he's making in terms of not wanting to be a part of all this violence in hip-hop. And as I mentioned in the last episode, one of Tupac's posthumous albums from around this time was produced by Eminem so I'm sure this stuff was probably on his mind and I'm sure Tupac was somebody he probably idolized and maybe Biggie too for all I know um but the problem is it just

kind of gets lost I think that's a message that I absolutely sympathise with. But it's just, it gets lost in this stuff about 50 Cent and Ja Rule, which, again, it's like I didn't even really know about and I'm not particularly compelled by it. It just sounds like, it sounds a bit like Ja Rule said something that was kind of out of line and at that point it's one of those where you tell a kid like just fucking ignore him he's clearly just doing it to get your dander off like it's okay to not rise to that but instead eminem's like

written a whole song about it and it is a bit sort of i'm i'm not triggered i'm definitely not upset by this it's like yeah come on dude i again i feel bad saying this because i do agree with the the whole sentiment of the song that people in hip-hop have died unnecessarily young and still do because of petty beef that turns violent when it really doesn't have to but yeah I think it just gets lost in in Eminem's kind of lyrics I think with a bit more focus and you know a bit of a bit of tightening like I agree with you, Andy, this doesn't need to be five minutes long. Could have really whittled this down. You could have made quite an impactful statement. I'm sure he has to a lot of people because, hey, he's still one of the biggest artists in the world.

And a lot of people love this song. But to me, listening to it now with modern ears, as someone who used to really love Eminem as well, listening to it now with modern ears as someone who used to really love Eminem as well it's just like I don't know it's doesn't do enough to stand out other than having like an undeniable hook and quite um yeah like I say a message that I broadly agree with just kind of lost in this mire of just kind of lost in this mire of beef that I don't really understand. So, yeah, a bit of a shame. I think I'm giving it like a mild thumbs up. It's definitely grown on me as the week's gone on, but I'm still not enough to put it up there with you, Rob.

I really appreciate what you said there, Lizzie, but I think you really articulated much better what I was trying to say, really, which is that it's, like, I do actually really appreciate the issues that are being raised here. But, yeah, a lot of rappers in the 90s and early noughties, you know, did die young needlessly. It was a problem. I think the issue for me is that it doesn't feel authentic for Eminem to be the one saying this. Because he, all right, at first, like in the late 90s, he was kind of new and dangerous. But at this point, he is like the mainstream acceptable face of rap music who, you know, is one of the only rappers in the world who your parents might be comfortable with you having a poster of them on the wall.

Like, it just doesn't feel authentic it doesn't feel like he could ever have been one of the people who died young due to violence i just don't feel like there was any chance of that because he's eminem he's sort of family friendly and it just doesn't feel authentic to me and i think that's kind of the issue there um that it feels like he's saying this from a distance rather than as someone who is really involved in all of this. And maybe that's not true. Maybe that's not true, but that's how it comes across. And I'm happy to be corrected on it, but yeah.

Well, I mean, I saw a stat this week that said that on Encore, Eminem devoted about 40% of his bars to dissing people. And this is Encore's album where we kind of, it's the shark jump moment. But yeah, he's kind of, he's someone that's like, even around this time, known for sort of taking aim at people. And well, maybe that's your point, Andy, that he is someone that specifically targets other people.

And now here he is like, can't we all just get along? Yeah, that is my point he's dishing it out from a distance and it's like I don't really feel like he's involved in this culture I feel like he just is relentlessly commenting on it and I don't think it's a very good look yeah fair enough

I thought for me this was going to turn into one of my longer essay type discussions because I feel like that happens a lot with me when we discuss Eminem. But I actually have comparatively little to say about this compared to the discussions that we had about Stan or even just Lose It or Lose Yourself.

But I think that this is the best track on Encore by a fair distance from the majority of that record um I think the Martika sample like you Andy and Lizzy as well I just think that it is used expertly and it gives a lot of life and emotion to the record and it feels suitable for the subject matter which is Eminem now recognizing that he's a bit of an elder statesman in hip-hop and he's realising the futility of the anger and the feuding that surrounds so much of the music. It's a wise subject to pick, this idea of playground games turning dangerous. You know, it's the same kind of, like, petty squabbling that kids would do, but now there's guns involved and that's how people get killed

it's weird to think that we're only what nine years on and eight years on respectively from the deaths of biggie and tupac at this point um like even in 2005 it kind of felt a bit like ancient history because obviously ghetto gospel coming up later this year a nasty girl coming up next year obviously there's this idea that like they're still kind of they feel sort of current but in a way that's like oh yeah they're dead and i don't and obviously like because being the age i was i don't remember them dying and so because i have no frame of reference or memory of them being killed it's just it may as all it may as well have all been much further ago uh in the past um like you two though i think where this falls slightly short for me is that he gets too into

the nitty-gritty and the specifics of his various feuds that he wishes that he didn't have i don't mind it in the first verse but then i think in the second verse i just wish it was broader and had more in common with the music video which is more to do with like isn't you know the the sort of like the broad subject of anger and violence isn't that a problem you know but instead like the second verse goes into all these like really nitty-gritty things about like how he has a beef with the editor of the source and they're just like i don't i don't know if i it's not like i don't care but it's just like is this the most appropriate thing that you could be discussing right now? Because the music video is all, like, really immediate.

Like, it's Eminem in hospital with blood all over him watching his friend die on the table from being shot. And, like, there's a great image in the music video, and I remember it, like, really clearly and really vividly. But then you listen to the lyrics of the song and you forget that it's not the broad, stop the violence why oh you know it's not it's not like that it's more like i i spoke to 50 cent and i told him not to have an argument with ja rule but then ja rule mentioned my daughter and i went you know what 50 you have my blessing to go and have a go at Ja Rule.

He started it. This is exactly what I mean about running out of things to say. It's like, he's bringing the most minor little tiffs to the table that don't need to be in the public domain at all. And I just feel like it's because he's just going through his catalogue of, well, what could I talk about?

And he's having to mine the well very, very deep at this point. Yeah. I think maybe, I don't know, he may have been concerned that he was getting could i talk about like and he's having to mine the well very very deep at this point yeah i think maybe i don't know he may have been concerned that he was getting too preachy um but like it doesn't it just i'm not asked about the arguments that he's having in the second verse really um still though i think m is engaging enough as an mc at this point to hold my attention um but even as someone like me who likes to collect and research lots of info about hip-hop and the context for certain albums and singles

and things like that running through various beefs not sure it's the best use of his time but i do think that this this i think this is the crucial thing for me that at least in mainstream music and pop music gangster rap as a big as the dominant commercial force in hip-hop is kind of waning at this point and is kind of fading out and there's a moment in 2007 where gangster rap as the dominant commercial force definitively is defeated by uh the the kind of the new school that came in at the start of the early 2000s. And songs like this, songs like Toy Soldiers, I think are part of the general movement away where the music and the artistry can't really be questioned, but the figures and the people pumping the money into gangster rap can

where i think that it's fair enough i think that i mean there's so much gangster rap that i absolutely adore because the whole thing with me and hip-hop is like how can i uh you know a suburban white guy from the northwest of england how can I relate to gangster rappers and the people who live that life, and the way that I always, you know, kind of rationalize it to myself is that I listen and enjoy, listen to and enjoy so much gangster rap because it teaches me about experiences that I have never experienced and never gone through, it's about learning somebody else's truth for me but it got to the point in the mid-2000s where there were there were lots of people in the industry who were millionaires and still trying to peddle this kind of romanticized image of gangster rap it wasn't really from the streets anymore it was

from the office on the 10th floor and it was all about like trying to remember what it used to be like and it all felt a bit it was starting to feel a little bit false by this point when you have when you have groups like just the the just the groups like no limit records and i don't know it's all it it's become something else entirely i think by the time that no limit records and g unit are like the dominant force in hip-hop and i think you know even people like suge knight um still being around like he kind of gets name dropped in this because m actually you know he mutes the word because he goes i went through my whole career without ever mentioning and then he but it's suge knight who he's referencing and in later live performances since suge knight has finally finally been put in prison. He started mentioning Shug on stage at that point in the song.

So I see value in this. I said when we covered Just Lose It that I wish Encore had been more like this, where Eminem is growing up a little bit and he's reflective and he's analyzing his role in the scene as a role model uh and i think this gives me plenty of that um plus i think time unfortunately has added a lot of weight to this especially to video to the video because uh proof a member of d12 was shot dead 18 months after this song came out um and you could clearly see that it was what was on m's mind and the fact that he was running

through i think he does get too lost in the finer details and if you're not up on the latest stories with m&m i mean even now with me i like, I agree with you two that, like, I wish that this was three shorter verses instead of two longer ones, because when the verses keep rolling past the point where you think, he's gonna drop the chorus in now, he's gonna drop the chorus in now, the longer it goes on, the, you know, the more I think, like, I think this could be sharper than it is but it's one of those ones where I think the sample is so good and I really like the first verse

and the way the Martika sample is introduced as the chorus the other thing as well which is it's not necessarily a criticism of this song but I think unfortunately this unfortunately sets the template for like the rest of eminem's career in the sense that like oh sad piano drum beat and then he just kind of hectares people for four and a half minutes like that's

like the blueprint for almost everything that Eminem does through like recovery to like his most recent stuff, like music to be murdered by, like recovery and kamikaze and revival and Marshall Mathers LP 2. And Jesus, there are so many just dull, dishwater cuts on those records. But I think I am going to sneak this into the vault just about, only just, but it is the last song that I will vault for Eminem for a long, long, long, long time, if at all. Because, God, are we going to have a lot to discuss about eminem

uh in the future uh so yeah this isn't on the level of lose yourself or real slim shady or definitely not stan um but yeah i i am a fan of it I think that it has a lot of value. Just going to check whether Goodies by Sierra is going in the pie hole or the vault for anyone in particular. It's not going in either for me. No, me neither. No, me neither. Cool.

It's Now or Never by Elvis Presley. No, it's Now or Neither. Elvis Presley. Nope. It's Now or Neither. Yeah, not for me either. I've already said I'm going to just slide like toy soldiers in under the door of the vault, but it doesn't sound like you two are going to put it anywhere in particular. And the pie hole?

No, oh no, no. It's not that bad, no. Not quite for me, no. Okay, then that is it for this week, no. Not quite for me, no. Okay, then. That is it for this week's episode. Thank you very much for listening. When we come back, we'll be continuing our journey through 2005.

Still slow at this point, unfortunately. But we will see you soon. Thanks for listening. So, bye for now. Bye-bye. See you.