Hollywood Handbook - Chris Gethard, Our Close Friend

Episode Date: January 25, 2016

CHRIS GETHARD joins Hayes in New York for a surprise retrospective on Big Lake, the Comedy Central show Chris starred in and Hayes wrote for, to dispel the rumors and reveal the true story once and for all.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is a HeadGum Podcast. and Elena Sperante. And we're playing bocce as you do at these things, these sort of backyard BBQs. And I said, Andrew, interesting fact about bocce, it's actually Italian for kiss. Because you're attempting to make the bocce ball kiss the Pauline. And Elena goes, oh, I'll kiss the pauline uh and uh elena goes elena goes oh i'll kiss the pauline and uh she grabs paulina porticova and just smooches her right on the lips so rick okay's experience you know and uh he starts throwing the bocce balls at at elena oh that and they're soft? Or what are they like?

Unfortunately, no. And, of course, I'm catching them all right before they get to her because, you know, athletically I'm so gifted. But it was just a kind of scene that you wish wouldn't happen. And all I wanted to do was give a trivia fact, and now I'm at this, like, sort of brawl-beque. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I mean, that's awful. That's such an awful...

I'm so sorry that... That was this morning? Yeah, that was this morning about... I think this was, like, right around sunrise. Oh, wow. I'm so sorry that happened. We do have to get into the show. I would love to talk more about this later.

Well, I think it's a dramatic event. I imagine that could be something we deal with on the show. I mean, why? What do you have going on? Well, I mean, Chris is here. We were going to talk. I think he was going to dish on Wahlberg. Just tell stories from the other guys and kind of dish on some secrets about Wahlberg.

Yeah. I can dish on a lot of things. Mark Wahlberg? Yeah. Jesus. Can I just say, and obviously I'm not there, it's not my show, but you've got

Hayes Davenport and Chris Gethard, two of the key figures in one of the most mythologized television shows I can remember. Yeah. I mean, you guys were on the ground floor for Big Lake. Do you know what that means?

And you're going to talk about Wahlberg? Is he even still relevant? Is he even still doing movies? I mean, I hear about Big Lake a lot. I haven't heard about Wahlberg in quite some time. Yeah, no. I, uh... Well, I don't know. It's up to you.

I mean, I was not... Chris, I was not gonna... Hey, I'm an open book. Okay. My whole policy the past couple years is just be honest about who I am,

who I used to be, and anywhere you want to go, you know, I feel like it's part of my personal kind of code of ethics and code of healing, to be honest. Okay. So whatever you want to do, I feel like it's part of my personal code of ethics and code of healing, to be honest. Whatever you want to do. I appreciate you saying that. I have taken the opposite

angle on this historically. I don't think I've ever told you anything. Hey, you shut down when I ask you about that. You clam up and I'm thinking something pretty effed up must have gone on around. Well, that's for Chris and that's for me too, honestly. It's not...

I don't know. Yeah, I guess we could... And I feel like I should thank you for that because I feel like part of your silence, and I know this is the case with you and a few other people, is to protect on some level to protect me and my reputation. It's not... I mean, honestly, that is part of it. It's not just you.

I'm saying your name and, uh, now, even now hearing your voice, I mean, we'd never really talked since then. Um, and I know you're doing great,

but it's just like hearing your voice and I'm there. I'm like back. Oh yeah. There. Oh yeah. In the Cheddar Creek. Yeah. Set.

Oh yeah. Um, but I, yeah, I mean, well, we have that policy, the honesty and openness. And it might help us put, maybe it'll help. That would be great. That would be great. And Maren does this. People love

it when Maren does this. Yeah. I mean, can we at long last pull back the curtain on, you know, some of this big lake stuff? Because there's so many rumors and so many theories about what went down. Yeah, okay, yes.

Okay, I'll start the show now, and we will do that. Thank you, Sean. I appreciate it. I would never have brought that up myself, so I appreciate that. Because it's just like, come on, you're going to talk about what, Walbert? What else? We're in a scene in Iron Man 3 or something that got cut. I mean, you were going to talk about some of that. Because it's just like, come on, you're going to talk about what, Walbert, what else? Weren't you, you were in a scene in Iron Man 3 or something that got cut? That got cut, yeah.

You were going to talk about some of that? The heat, the office. I'm talking parks and recreation. I thought people might like to hear about some of that stuff. Broad City? Broad City's hot. I thought he might like to promote his season two of his show, but I guess. Okay, yeah, sure.

But we'll talk about Big Lake. It's eponymous. I don't think people know about that. Yeah, it's more a Big Lake thing, I think, for me and for America. So I do appreciate you digging in. I've got to get back to this barbecue. It's still going on.

Oh, it is? Oh, I just assumed that it sort of put an end to it. Have you been catching bocce balls this whole time? Yeah, you can hear I'm a little out of breath, and I've been catching them, and it's starting to dent up my hands a little bit, but I've actually built up a pretty good callus around my palm.

So, anyway, I can't wait to hear the Big Leg Scoop, and do talk about, you know, the incident. Okay, okay. Thank you, Sean. Thank you. See you, buddy. um okay great so i'll just i'll start i'll say the introduction and then we'll get is there anything you want me to stay away from we can go wherever you want okay yeah just tell me during it if if you're like this is too hot i will i'll use that phrase that'll be like our safe word too hot our safe phrase

okay and thank you thank you for having my back and I feel like we kind of got thrown into this and I'm sure

some painful things might come up for you for me but I feel like very you know maybe a little

put on the spot but more so happy to finally have an opportunity to maybe share some of this stuff because there's been too many

too many whispers and too many of my relationships affected by people who are scared to ask me what's true what's not and if any of them were to listen to this if you were to suggest the show to them that could be great just for like our numbers sure people who you think might be

interested in the story maybe they tell their friends like that's kind of how this works we don't have like a tv advertising budget so it's sure so that's mostly how how we get our and i also feel like once this hits the big lake fan community the boards the message boards it's gonna yeah the the news group things spread with those guys yeah okay um so let me hey welcome to hollywood handbook an insider's guide to kicking butt and dropping names in the red carpet line. Back always at this industry we call showbiz. A little different episode today.

We have Chris Gethard here. Chris and I know each other from a few years ago. We both worked on the same show. You all know this. show you all know this it's not a show i ever really talk about um despite you know a lot of people have suggested that i do an episode about this but chris is here i think he really is the person um to uh to address it uh the show's called big lake uh chris you were the main character on the show some would say I was the star. I don't need to say any of this.

Josh Franklin was the character that he played. Yeah. And I'll also play the theme song, which people will recognize. So the guitar is there. A lot of people did fan lyrics. Big Lake Lake. Big Lake Lake. The map of Pennsylvania in the background and all that.

Chris was the star of the show. It was sort of a break, big break for you. It was your first TV starring role. Yeah, I was just a kid from Jersey hacking it out in the New York City comedy scene. Used to be theater before that. And you just suddenly got this call and like, would you like to star in this show? Yeah. I was a writer on the show at the time. Pour some water.

Is that okay? You might hear that. That's great. It's good. For texture, that's actually really nice. Great. I have a feeling I'll need it. And, you know, famously, John Heater had dropped out of the production.

I actually don't even know your timeline. From my timeline, he dropped out, and I believe it was less than two weeks before we shot our first episode. Yeah, it was a very quick turnaround. I think what I remember John saying at the time, we would talk in his dressing room a lot, and I know he was a little scared of what this character was doing to his mind. Yeah.

Yeah. And this was the summer of The Dark Knight as well. And it was just sort of in the air that, like, we were dragging out some of these dangerous characters like the Joker, like Josh Franklin. Yeah. Glenn that could sort of infect somebody's personality and almost end up wearing them like a suit, like sort of like Venom. Yeah. I mean, I definitely felt right away when I read the first script. Yeah.

I auditioned. It came down. I believe it came down to me and Matt Bronger. Me and Matt Bronger. And I think they only auditioned 10 people. They did callbacks for me and Matt Bronger. Yeah, I got it. When I read the script, by the way, Matt Bronger also,

it's very interesting because I spoke to him and he says, it's like this real path in our lives where we were similar people and now we're wildly different people. He was like, I regretted it when I didn't get Big Lake, but when I saw what it did to you and a lot of other people, I thank God. And Heeter is saying that as well. And he's actually become very religious. He's never spoken to me.

And I don't think he ever will after a lot of what happened. But yeah, as soon as I read that script, I said, oh, this is not a situation where i step into the character of uh josh franklin this is a situation where the character of josh franklin steps into me but it does what he wants at this time in your career you're saying like this is i gotta do this you know yeah i mean i for years i've been around new york city my best friends bobby moynihan gets snl yeah zach woods gets the office these are i York City. My best friends, Bobby Moynihan gets SNL. Zach Woods gets The Office. I mean, these are my best friends.

I see all these people who deserve it getting these things. And for years, people are telling me, you're the next guy. You've been one of the top dogs here for years. New York, UCB, it's such a hot place. Everybody's been waiting for you to break, and then I break. And I wasn't going to back down. I read the page, and I knew. Even on the page, you could see whatever you guys were doing in the writer's room,

that character was a bucking bronco. And it needed an actor who wasn't going to get thrown off. And I said, you know, I might break some bones. I got to pray that the clown comes and distracts this thing if it tries to step on me when the moment comes. And I remember when you showed up, you were this sort of wide-eyed, innocent kid. Yeah, scared to speak, scared to stand up for myself.

Yeah, but also very happy to be there and so friendly with everybody. Ready to attack. I wish I got more time in the writer's room, but the head writer of the show did immediately make it clear that I was not welcome. I didn't meet most of the writers. I don't know if you remember this. You and I actually spoke largely about basketball when we met because i believe there was a directive

that i was not to be let in on anything about the actual show i and and i think that was about the fear of the infection spreading yeah uh big time you know we we did try to keep you totally 100 in the dark at most times um and the first time i remember you sort of beginning to turn was i think it was a reaction sort of to the first time you got makeup on the first time you were in makeup i remember sort of you seeing seeing you look in the mirror and i actually think that i mean i know this isn't possible, but your reflection in the mirror was different. Absolute fact. You're not the only person who saw that.

I saw it as myself. Okay. I saw it, but that's when I realized. I was seeing. It was a very strange thing for me. Other people have said this. There were other people in the room who said that when I looked in that mirror, the image on the other side of the mirror was slightly different than me.

It was smiling. It had kind of like a cruel smile. Different jawline, firmer jawline, smaller forehead. Very handsome. Yeah, extremely handsome. Much more of a leading man than the character actor I was born to play. And I saw myself as that. That's the weird thing is that I didn't see my own.

Tell me if this makes sense. It's not like I saw my reflection, Chris Gethard, in the mirror. It's that I presumed that I was Josh Franklin. You saw Josh Franklin in the mirror. And I knew it had overtaken me, if that makes sense. I immediately was Josh Franklin. Yes. It was, yeah, the makeup.

Those makeup ladies were great at their job. I don't know what kind of makeup they were using or what kind of techniques they were taught in, but... In order to change a mirror image. Striking. It also makes me wonder if they were just putting makeup on the mirror. I mean, whatever. I don't know what kind of techniques they were using.

But I think, again, the head writer of that show, Lou Morton, he had a lot of very interesting ideas. And I was not shocked to learn that our makeup artists had training not only in makeup, but shamanistic. In the dark arts. Yeah, like shamanistic Native American ceremonies that I think tended, yes, towards the dark arts. Yes. A lot of experience with peyote-based journeys, visions. based journeys, visions.

And I think, you know, one thing I will say about my downfall, and I'm sure we'll get into all the specifics, is that there have long been rumors that there were people putting substances in things like makeup, things like hair products, to maybe, again, I think Lou had some ideas about how to push us to a place where I think it had a very 70s feel. You know, it had a very 70s director feel. Right, just like creating an environment on set that would lead to the most chaotic material and pull whatever came out of that.

Let's not forget, Adam McKay and Will Ferrell were the EPs, and they wanted chaos. They wanted a sitcom infected with chaos. They worship chaos. Oh, yeah. It's the altar that they kneel at. And I think they wanted it to be a sitcom that was infected with chaos. And I think a lot of people maybe felt some pressure to take that as far as it could go as quickly as possible.

I'm the first to admit I was in over my head. I wasn't ready. And I took a back seat, and I I took a back seat and I let Josh lead the charge I let Josh Franklin lead the charge and that's a it took me a long time to put him back in his in his box and it's a box that every single day I have to remind myself it is not to be opened so let's talk about the first day on set then and by the way I I I hope if you ever feel by the way in talking about Josh yeah, if you feel him re-emerging at any time, please, please let me know. I will.

I'll warn you. And I'll call whoever. There's moments of sadness. There's moments of rage. There's moments of fear where I do feel him, and I have to quell that. But if it's okay with you, maybe I'll just, if you want to just copy this down from my phone this is my emergency contact okay great yes okay don't say that number obviously into the mics but that is my wife that's your wife and she knows exactly she can she's kind of like uh what was that guy's name the dog whisperer uh cesar yeah she knows how to talk to josh better Better than anyone did on set, I can say that. Wow. Okay, first day.

We're shooting the first episode, which is where Josh comes home from college. Josh Franklin, a disgraced Wall Street wunderkind. Wunderkind? Wunderkind, wunderkind? Yeah. He's a financial hotshot. Or he was, at least. He was.

Turns out he was making some shady deals on the side has to head home to a small town of big lake pennsylvania move back in with his parents back in with his younger brother who has his own dark side a lot of questions surrounding him played by the fantastic dylan blue uh madman in his own right it would turn out but yeah disgraced wall street banker 2010 2010. Topical, edgy. Let's go at it, doggie. And it wasn't something that a lot of people were doing. Adults normally live in their own house.

Absolutely. The idea of putting an adult back in his parents' house, sort of like a child, was that kind of chaos. And there were a lot of think pieces about that. Can the sitcom handle something as revolutionary as a, a guy has to move back home with his parents? Are we going to break the form here in a way America's ready for, let alone the comedy central audience.

So we are all, you know, we're getting into this first day on, on set and we're all sort of like, okay, you know, maybe this, this is sort of the day where I guess we'll find out if this is going to

work. And, uh, you had your first scene with Horatio Sanz, I think. Yeah, I believe so. And I think it was this day in the first scene where you shot him. Yeah, with a gun. In the hand. Is that right? Yeah.

Okay. It was a.22. It wasn't the most powerful gun. In the hand. Is that right? Yeah. Okay. It was a.22. It wasn't the most powerful gun. But yeah. And it's big that you're saying that you did this now because at the time you were able to get him to say that he had done it himself and that it was like a Brandon Lee situation. Yeah, I got him to say that he thought it was a prop gun.

But the truth of the matter is before I read the first script for Big Lake, I had never fired or owned a gun. I had no interest in it. I grew up in the Northeast, very liberal. It's not culturally something I am aware of. But I read the script of Big Lake, and I did, before our first shooting day, without even really knowing why, I did purchase a gun. And your excuse

that this was like a prop gun and that it was accidentally filled with live ammunition or something there was no sequence in the scene where anyone was supposed to be using a gun I don't think a gun was ever supposed to appear in the show

what I explained to everybody and what they bought was that I said, you know, I'm a very traditional actor. I've taken a lot of very hardcore acting classes. And one thing that I was always told in the various schools of acting is that you want your character to have a secret, something that you know that the world doesn't know, an actor's secret. This is a very common acting tool.

And a lot of times people say oh um you know in college my character kissed someone of the same sex or or maybe um this character stole money from his mother give themselves like a theoretical secret but my actor see or my character's secret was that i had a gun on me at all times yeah and but it wasn't a secret not for long. No, well, Horatio, it's weird. You have to tell me how you prefer the phrasing, because I want to say Horatio maybe made a joke that put me on the spot, made me feel exposed. But the truth is it put Josh on the spot.

It made Josh feel exposed. Right. I remember his character, Glenn, was maybe gently ribbing Josh about his situation living with his parents, maybe comparing him to some sort of baby. Yeah, and you got to realize that for Josh, the scene didn't end when Don Scardino called cut for Josh. Josh lived that world. Josh lived in that reality that we couldn't see. And then the rest of us stepped into it and when action was called it was like

we got to see it again and pick it up in progress. But for Josh that was his world. That was his life. And I was again, I know it sounds strange, maybe dramatic, but I was just the vessel that Josh was living inside. It was like a real, was it Gozer or Zool?

It was Gozer, right? That overtook Sigourney Weaver? Yes, that was Gozer. It was kind of like a Gozer, but yeah. Cut would yell and Cut would be said and everyone else would stop and the jokes would come out, but for Josh they didn't stop. And unfortunately what we found was that Josh and I were

such a good match that sometimes when Cut was said, Josh didn't go away. Josh was still standing there and people learned that very quickly and Horatio learned that uh and every I made sure Deborah Rush saw that incident uh she never liked me let me ask you this I personally would go home and go to sleep immediately. Yeah. And, like, I would, at the time, I was usually sleeping, like, 14 hours a night. Yeah. And most of that time, I never found myself, what was going on with you of, like, experience in the character in my waking hours, but I would sort of live in Big Lake in my dreams, I guess.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm curious what you would do if Josh is still a part of you when the show is over. What were you doing at night? It's very interesting that you bring up sleep stuff because, first of all, one thing we should mention is that you're not the only person that had dreams of living in the Big Lake world. And one thing that we all started to notice was that as it became clear that many of the members of the Big Lake cast and crew were having these very strange, intense dreams of being on set, being in that world, we all started to talk about it and realize we actually were interacting in our dreams that we all remembered.

So we were living in a world where our daytime and nighttime activities started to merge. So for me, as far as sleep went, it'll be a two-part thing. You asked, what was I doing at night? First of all, I rarely slept, especially in the first few weeks. And I could not figure out what was going on. And then what I came to realize was that I needed to, every night, if I wanted to sleep, I needed to look into a mirror and ask Josh for permission to sleep. Sometimes he would grant me that permission.

Sometimes he would not. It was a case-by-case thing. And if he said no, what were you going anything he wanted i mean there's some things that i'm gonna come clean i'm gonna come clean about a lot of things and i want to thank you for protecting me and letting this be on my own terms um and this is from a legal standpoint if it's on a podcast you're you're it's essentially a confessional yeah atmosphere um and so you so you're not able to be prosecuted for any of this, but you know that. Yes, absolutely.

And do you still have your medical license? Are you still technically a psychiatric professional? As a podcast host, if you deal with showbiz anxiety and things like that. Yes, so there's some patience. Once you clear the 50 episode hurdle, which not all of us do, and I wish you luck in that

respect, that's an automatic honorary doctorate. There's a few things that I'll just come clean about. There's always been rumors about some of my behavior i think the world knows that things got very dark and very crazy some of those rumors are not true some of

them are um you know one of the first things i'll say is that uh josh loved paying for pussy loved it loved it more it was a power thing sure i. He loved that he had them. Because he was a banker. Yeah, he was a banker. He fell from grace, but it was a way to demonstrate that power and take that manhood back. And I'll never forget it because it's a very strange thing. When I say that Josh lived inside me, I could not control Josh. I could not stop Josh.

That being said, I was there witnessing it. I could hear what Josh was saying. It was like I was a bystander. It was as if I was watching a movie from the perspective of my own eyes. I was seeing what he was seeing. I was hearing what he was saying. It was like I was a bystander. It was as if I was watching a movie from the perspective of my own eyes. I was seeing what he was seeing. I was hearing what he was saying. All these interactions were things I could see. And one of the things that was,

one of the very early and most disturbing things to me was that Josh Franklin, the character I played on Big Lake, used my body to, I'll give him credit, make love to a prostitute. It was loving. And as soon as we, should I say we, he finished, he said, God, that felt good. And she looked him right in the eye and said,

it is my father's birthday. And I never forgot that. That's when I knew things were out of control. And that was the first time that I had a conversation with Josh in a mirror, which many people, yourself included, witnessed the larger, more intense versions of as that became not just habitual but necessary. The conversations, yes.

And so constant that it ended up being a lot of stuff that we had to shoot that kind of went into the show. A lot of big, the shooting process was really interesting, partially because we would find, in addition to interacting with each other in our dreams, we would sometimes like, like get a couple scenes done somehow.

It was odd. It was very odd. We would show up the next day and find that we had some stuff in there was stuff in the can that we all together swore happened in a dream world but it existed so it started to become is reality bending or yeah there's are these insomnia issues affecting all of our memories but a lot of big like fans don't know this and this was something something that didn't show up. The DVDs sold like wildfire. And one thing that wasn't in the director's commentary, many scenes with Josh Franklin, people don't realize,

the cameras are actually being pointed at mirrors, not at me directly. Because Josh lived in the mirror. So they would film the mirror to get the best performance. And it would erase a lot of the exhaustion and fear in my eyes and body language should we play a couple of clips and just like find out what was we'll hear the clip and then like yeah maybe i can give you a little bit of context what was sort of going on for you in that

in that clip um so this is from episode five josh goes to work josh is dead, played by the late, great James Rebhorn. It was insisting, constantly hoping that Josh would sort of... James Rebhorn, a great man. Yes. A truly great man. Yeah, absolutely. And I'll say again on my end, many of the revolutionary aspects of Big Lake, which I think in some ways it set a lot of trends that are now becoming more and more

standard. Again, the network sat us all down. They sat Adam Will down, Don Scardino, Lou Morton, and myself. And they said, we do not know if America is ready for a sitcom with a title as bold as Josh Goes Back to Work. And because that was

what was happening in that episode. Yeah, he went back to work. And because that was what was happening in that episode. Yeah. He went, he went back. You almost did not need to watch the show. Yeah. And I think so.

That's what they said. You're letting the cat out of the bag. Everybody sees this going to see that it's titled. Josh goes back to work. They're going to say, I get it. And we had to say, no,

it's the quality of the writing. It's the, and the suspense of like, what is he going to do? What's the profession? What's the work? There's so many different kinds. He messed it up one up one time is he is this a pattern in his life or are we going to see this character grow and thrive and in this in this case in this episode he was going to work

as a bus boy i believe at his father's restaurant chatter creek um uh by the way. Alongside the fabulous Britt Lauer. Yes. As Meg. Britt Lauer. By the way, some of the names on this show, it was almost like Star Wars. You know what I mean? Just like, and I remember that like. Yeah.

I think it was like. Admiral Ackbar, Nian Num, Josh, Meg. Three weeks of name work. And. Yeah. And there was Chris Parnell, of course, was fantastic. And he was at the show. and he played your teacher yeah whose name was chris right josh chris glenn meg jeremy mom dad but let's play this scene so this um, I guess you're about to go back to work at the restaurant and I'm sorry,

not you, Josh. Yeah. And he has some, it's hard for me at times as well. By the way, I've always wanted to ask if I can, before we get into it.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Who was responsible for naming the restaurant Cheddar Creek? Cheddar Creek.

I think that was Lou Morton's sort of dream restaurant that he was hoping to launch as a result of this show. The show at one point. Like a bubblegum shrimp type thing. Yes. And this did change, was sort of a test market for a restaurant. It was like a business plan for a restaurant. And I have heard, though he doesn't, I think, speak to me to my great shame. And I understand why. I have heard that Lou Morton is now a very successful restaurateur.

Sure. Not doing the Cheddar Creek stuff necessarily, but the Fishbone Grill is Lou Morton's restaurant. So do you want to get into this clip? And if you don't want to, I don't know if you're stalling because you don't really want to. It's tough. I mean, definitely.

I'm trying to maybe charm my way out of it, but I need to face this down. yeah let's do it okay josh goes back just goes to work and this is but well this is it this is at home in the kitchen where the family would often spend their time uh and it's josh he's got he's got a few ideas for how cheddar creek uh could could could work morning boys dad, Josh is going to be a great waiter. Yeah, but I'm not going to just be a waiter. I've also got a lot of great ideas. Josh, don't shoot too high.

I just need you to bust tables, nothing more. How about this one? Leftovers. Yesterday's food reheated today, half price, leftovers. Boom. Solid gold right there. Josh, that's disgusting, and it's definitely a health code violation. So let's talk about this scene.

And I see it now, by the way, the mirrors thing. I guess I was not set for a lot of this stuff. It's like a different person. You'd never notice it if you didn't know. But now that you know, when you guys all go back and watch your DVD box sets of Big Lake Season 1, you will notice the mirror thing uh so you're in this in this scene do you remember can you go back to like what's sort of going on with you as you're pitching the as you're pitching the leftovers idea i can

say again all of it's i i feel like i always have to explain the perspective. I remember being inside my body while it happened very vividly. I remember Josh, he didn't want to listen. He only wanted to talk. He knew better than Father. Father doesn't always know. Father thinks Father has the answers, but Josh has the answers. And you were saying, let's listen to Father. Yeah.

And in my head, I was thinking thoughts. Me, Chris, I was thinking things like, Josh, calm down. And then Josh would hear my thoughts and think back. Josh does not calm down. Josh is the alpha. Josh runs the show. Jeremy thinks he runs the show. Oh, Jeremy is younger.

Jeremy sells drugs. Jeremy is cute. It is quirky. But Josh shall dominate. That was kind of Josh is quirky but Josh shall dominate that was kind of Josh's mantra Josh shall dominate and let's and we should talk about the drugs thing because this was around I think before going into the spectrum of drugs. Everything. Over like a lunch.

Yeah, it was, Josh liked drugs. And the problem was, a huge problem for me, which is one of the main things I struggle with to this day, physically and mentally, is that Josh loved drugs. And in the world of Big Lake, Pennsylvania, Cheddar Creek, that world that lived on before action and after cut, he did a lot of drugs. I hadn't.

And my body was becoming addicted to drugs, even though mentally this character was driving the car. So I spent a lot of years unraveling these addictions. And they were fierce. I mean, it started with the small stuff like PCP, gateway drug, I think a lot of people, and that, of course, led to marijuana. And you were shooting all of these things, I should say, just like mostly in your neck.

Yeah, it was. Makeup had a real issue because I was collapsing veins actively, one by one in my neck. Also, I mean, I was aiming for the arteries, you know? Yes, you were mainlining weeds. Yeah, I was. Josh had many methods of preparing, getting THC out of weed, and we were mainlining PCP.

We were mainlining marijuana, cough syrup. Yeah. Sucrettes. Mm-hmm. Drinking Ambasol. Yeah. Which is the oral numbing agent. Sure. No, I know. Yeah.

I mean mainlining, injecting, drinking Ambasol. Yeah. Mainlining Ambasol. Because there are a lot of, we did a lot of ADR stuff where you visually, your mouth is immobile. It's just like slack. It's just hanging open. But we had to sort of ADR a lot of your lines.

Yeah, I'd say about 85% of the show is ADR. Between cuts in this scene. Sometimes your character appears to be asleep, but we would be ADRing the stuff about the leftovers. Yeah, there are many times where I remember where the producers actually, do you remember the standing bed?

We had a name for it, but the thing that they would convince Josh to lean against and then strap him down and force him to ADR the actual lines from the actual script. Yeah, it was like the Hannibal Lecter. Yeah, and he'd the Hannibal Lecter. Yeah. Yeah. And he'd be yelling like, free this body, free this body. Right.

You must free this body. Yeah. And they'd have to say no until you actually say the lines. No, you can't sit there in silence. You can't just say the things you want to say, although I will give Josh credit. A lot of the sort of demonic things he wound up yelling, I thought, were actually pretty decent improv. Sure. But that being said, yeah, there were a lot of times where my body had to be – I would have – and over time, it became more and more constant that Josh was inhabiting my body until clearly it was a stretch where I was lost and Josh was all that remained.

24 hours a day, it was Josh. But before that stage, there were times where I would see these bruises all over my body. And I wouldn't really understand. And then I'd remember, yeah, physically I was being manhandled so that the producers and Don Scardino would sometimes personally have to physically brutalize me. That's really, I think, why he was

hired was for his physical strength. And I also think that might have influenced why Josh chose you. Yeah. Because it was kind of counterintuitive at the time. I mean, Matt Bronger had certainly a lot more credit. Yeah.

Still does, I bet. Would he have chosen you because you do have experience in martial arts? Yeah. I was, it was, I will tell you, oh my God. I mean, I'll tell you something I don't even know if you know. Okay. If anybody knows. Yeah. But yeah, I was a blue belt in Brazilian jiu-jitsu.

I think Josh really enjoyed that. And one thing that I think you and a lot of the people who were involved in Big Lake can vouch for is that I don't know if the world knows, none of these teeth are my real teeth. Oh, wow. Did you know that? Sorry, sorry, sorry.

No, I mean... If you look at a picture of me before Big Lake and in the first half of Big Lake, my teeth are drastically different than the second half of Big Lake and beyond. That makes sense because also in some of these sequences, the number of teeth that you have is changing wildly. It varies greatly.

Well, Josh, it turns out, was very into the Kumite scene. Okay. Kumite, you know, underground fighting. Yeah, tell the audience. Well, yeah, so I didn't know about this. When I got into Big Lake and a lot of this started to happen and things started to get out of control, I would find myself Googling a lot of different things.

And I would sometimes even find numbers in my phone that I had no recollection of putting there. Yeah. And it turns out that there's a whole, in New York, there's an underground Kumite scene. Kumite, I'm not sure of the exact definition. My understanding is that it's a large-scale fighting melee. Okay.

And what would happen is that there was this organization. I don't know much about it. It was very underground, but they would secure parking garages. They would shut down the top floor, very top floor parking garage. And what would happen is you would drive a car to the top floor of the parking garage. You would park it. And the cars would all park in a circle with the headlights on pointing inward. And you would remain in your car.

You could have up to five people in your car. And once the circle was complete, once the last car completed the circle, and some people strategize, is it better to be the first car, last car, what, psychologically, has the most effect on your opponents. But once the last car locked in and completed the circle, the fighters would emerge and fight inside the ring

formed by the circles. You could have all five people going at once and try to some people would have unified moves as a unit some people would just be five individual fighters

that were all good at what they did and linked up because they felt like their skills were complimentary these were big money fights by the way these are not small entries

a lot of my big leg money went into the entry fees which is underground kumites I mean these are this is cash one of the cars the trunk was full of cash. And this was a situation where, I mean, these would be gang brawls. Sometimes

individuals would emerge, groups would emerge, and it was all about whoever last, I mean, last man standing, their car split the money. Their car split that money. They got to drive away with the car that had the money in the trunk. These were money trunk kumites is what they were called. And yeah, this was a thing

that was very odd because uh you know i lost a lot of teeth a lot of it and let's talk about your team as well because you were yeah they forcibly recruiting chris parnell to attend these events with you to use him as a weapon yeah because you're not allowed technically to bring it's all fists yeah right yeah it is there's no weapons um but chris he's very light he's he's surprisingly not surprised i mean he looks like a uh a well a properly proportioned man i'm not saying that he he is he's chubby in any way but his actual bone density it's light It's bird-like. Bird-like, yeah. And also, he was really hot at the time. I mean, we're talking SNL, we're talking Lonely Island,

we're talking Dr. Spachemin, 30 Rock. Sure. And all the Lazy Sunday stuff. All of it. The whole, I mean, we don't have to get into that. Yeah. The cupcakes and the. Believe me.

Believe me, yeah. I mean, like, and he never would have stopped. Narnia. Yeah, he, yeah. I mean, like, and he never would have stopped. Narnia. Yeah, and I always remember, too, I always felt bad because, you know, it's fair to say that I, Josh, but Josh was inside me. I couldn't control it. I ruined the Big Lake opportunity. Chris was not going to walk away from all that Lonely Island and 30 Rock stuff

except that it was a surefire. I mean, this was a slam dunk. Yes. Everybody involved said nothing can go wrong. Well, a lot went wrong. Josh went wrong. I went wrong. But yeah, you know, you'd show up at these money trunk kumites,

and people would see. They'd be like, are you, I mean, you're like the Red Vines guy. You're the rap guy. Yeah. Saturday Night Live. You're Tina Fey's doctor. Yeah. They'd distract them, time to strike.

I'm the jujitsu wing. We had four fighters and Chris Parnell. Chris is the distraction, Chris is the weapon. I'm jujitsu. We got a Muay Thai guy. We got a Savat guy, French kickboxing. And we had a Greco-Roman wrestler. And yeah, it was a really good team.

And what we would kind of do would be linger around the border, try to spread out. We wore distinctive outfits that had reflective material so that you could always see the movements of the people in your team, kind of let everybody else take out who's going to take out, see who the real deal players are. Yeah, and also you could become sort of a human Hall of Mirrors. Yeah, big time.

And make it impossible for your opponents to know which one they should punch. Yeah, it was really, it was a remarkable strategy, and Josh really did assemble a pretty fantastic team, but I certainly took, my body certainly took its fair share of lumps in these fights. And yeah, no one was happy when I'd show up literally having not slept with less teeth. I mean, I was doing kumites all night, most nights. And then on the weekends, it was, you know, the riverboats got involved. And that was the real addiction at the end of the day.

That ended, that did, the riverboat action did. The riverboat gambling was like the worst part of it. It's crazy. Cause you'd think someone who is mainlining so many drugs into a system would get addicted to that. For some reason, my,

my chemistry, my mentality, riverboat gambling wound up being the vice that I think did the most damage to me. Sure. And I would, just so we don't leave this out. You also did develop an intentional sex addiction. Like you And I would, just so we don't leave this out, you also did develop

an intentional sex addiction. Like, you announced that you were about to get addicted to sex on purpose. And Yeah. Stop me if this is

not something you want to get into. You did end up having intercourse with every person on the crew. Yeah. Every below the line person. Yeah.

And a lot of the above the line people. Okay. A decent amount, less, but the below the line people, yeah. Which was, you know, half sexual pleasure, half. Dominance. Dominance. Some elements of let's get them in my team sure you know some class warfare efforts there i think josh was really trying to divide the haves from the have

nots and make himself the man of the people so that his behavior could continue using his greatest asset which is your your cock i mean i'll just say it yeah I mean that was legendary before Big Lake and it remains so to this day and I also think he sort of used this was all because you weren't eating

a lot of this in this period a lot of traditional food except a lot of really only on the weekends at the buffet the casino buffets but that

I'll never forget for me because there were a lot of rock bottoms there were a lot of rock bottoms but I think one of the main ones was like Riverboat Casino.

You know, it's Friday. We would wrap Fridays. And I would be immediately on the internet, when is the next flight that I can get right now that will take me to the Mississippi River? Right. Where anything, it's river law. Yeah, river law. Once you get out there.

And I mean, I'm booking flights on sometimes half an hour notice. This is not cheap. I'm getting to these boats and I'm disappearing onto these boats, much to the producer's chagrin. And I'm gambling. I'm playing Let It Ride all weekend long. Just Let It Ride, my favorite card game. Also Josh's favorite card game,

which was one of the weird crossover points for us. And then these buffets. Peel and eat shrimp. Peel and eat shrimp eat shrimp my rock bottom i remember probably my ultimate rock bottom is eating so much peel and eat shrimp that i'm like i don't like the peeling i don't like the eating i don't like the shrimp why am i doing this it's compulsion i'm out of control i wake up i wake up and a river casino, a riverboat casino porter is shaking me and he's going, sir, sir, you have to head back to your room, sir. And I've got, you know, the meatless husks of shellfish all over me, the table, the floor. And that was a real moment of what am I doing?

Why have I let this being inhabit me and lead to these behaviors? So yes, you are correct. I was not eating. No one saw me eat on set. It was... You would sort of fill up for the week. Yeah. And then Josh could sort of sustain himself on your teeth

for the rest of the week. He would sort of use that as sustenance. Yeah. And also like sexual adrenaline. I think he would be able to convert into calories somehow. Yeah. But I remember them sending me in to talk to you because we would talk about basketball sometimes.

Josh had a lot of kind of racist angles on the NBA is my memory of it. He was like a fan, but he had a lot of changes he would make that were sort of. Segregation based. Yeah, it was very disturbing. It was really, really disturbing really and he would say uh where are the white globetrotters a lot which was like which is not an nba thing but he he was hoping for an all-white globetrotter team uh that could play some black guys and like and he would say like we'll see how they like it anyway uh so they they were like, you have this thing with him.

Like, you go in and talk to him about the riverboat stuff. And I remember saying, like, please go to Atlantic City. It's so close. Yeah, it's driving distance. Or Foxwoods, something like that. It really wasn't about the gambling. It was about the river. It was the lure of the river.

It was the paddle wheels. Josh's favorite. It sings its own song. The calliope, the steam powered calliope it was the whole allure of the river culture itself and I'll say this for as crazy as things got on the Big Lake set

you have not seen crazy until you have dealt with river people there's river people, there's people whose whole lives there's people who spend their whole lives never touching that shore they spend their whole lives never touching that shore. Sure. They spend their whole life on the Mississippi. Do you want to play another clip?

Yeah. You know what? The first one was really cathartic, and there's nothing I'd love to do more than play another clip of Big Lake. This one is from the episode Lee Harvey Oswald, which is, of course, the episode where Glenn Horatio Sands finds out that Lee Harvey Oswald used to live in his house. And then Josh is always coming up with money-making schemes. Yeah.

And his plan is that they're going to put Big Lake on the map by turning this house into a museum. And so this is sort of. And I don't want to spoil it. Mm-hmm. What a visual punchline. And so this is sort of... And I don't want to spoil it. Mm-hmm. What a visual punchline. Oh, yes. It's not in this scene, so maybe you...

We can maybe discuss later. Okay, okay. Yeah. So let me play this clip. This 20th century history exam, only test I ever failed. Kind of devastated me. I left it at your house

so my parents wouldn't see it. I told my parents it was mine. Yeah, they were real proud of my improvement. Gave me a pizza party. This went over a lot of people's heads at the time. I remember people being like, what does that joke mean? And it's like, Glenn was not good at school.

Bad for me was great for him. Yes, and so his parents were happy that some people might think it was a bad grade, but it was a great grade for him. Yes. And so his parents were happy that what would, some people might think it was a bad grade, it was a great grade for a client. But it's interesting because I remember a lot of the critical reviews missed that joke and a lot of the fan chatter missed that joke.

But luckily, the live studio audience that was there laughing did not miss that joke for all of our sake. It hit big. Yeah. We had to turn it down. Yeah. I remember potting down the audience for that one. We had to come out and ask all those live human beings who were there

to maybe please don't. To stop laughing. Because it was almost like a Kramer situation. It's like, we know you guys get it. We know you want to show your support, but it's maybe overtaking things a little bit. So all of you live human beings who are definitely on this studio floor while we shoot this need to just maybe be respectful of the process.

You're such a good student, Josh, but you really pooped the crib on this one. Yeah, I didn't study. I had a real problem with procrastination back then. I could procrastinate to anybody. The girl didn't even need to be hot. It's the same thing. He's talking about jerking off. It's unclear if he's confusing the word procrastinate with the word masturbate or if he just equates those two things. But he is masturbating to the girls. Yeah, and one thing we should mention is that joke was not in the script. No, this is a product of a twisted mind.

Far from the only time that Josh insisted on talking about masturbation in an otherwise masturbation-free scene. Hey, look, my dad's old hats. Let me see. Hey, probably look like our dad's. Stay away from Asian girls, they'll give you chlamydia. When are you going to pop your cherry, boy? Costs a lot of money to make pipe bombs these days.

I don't drive around half the county selling fake Bibles just to come home to your crap. Oh, Dad. Anyway, I got these books up here, too. Can we pause it a second? Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I just want to say, nothing gave me, as an actor, greater joy than being in the scene where I got to help set up the exposition like I did so skillfully in that scene and then just you know take a step back hang back you're the tea just listen to Chris and Horatio just nail those jokes yeah right just

stand back and watch baby I set it up and then right when it's time to start reaping the benefits I get out of there let some other people take the charge, and grab them laughs. That was one of the great joys in my life and my Big Lake experience. But I think a lot of the laughs are on your reaction shots, the way you would kind of roll your eyes, shake your head. The way I was so enthusiastic about that bald-faced racist Asian joke. Yeah, you give a double thumbs up.

Yeah, it's big time double thumbs up right to the camera. And that was my, I don't want to like, you know, as a writing staff, you know, this is all like a collaborative effort. I don't want to say what stuff is mine and like what is other people's. Was the Asian joke, because I would say there were, I remember at least two other remarkably anti-asian jokes sure one was a picture-based joke where the joke was that all well you joke i know i forgot it you're looking at a picture of an asian person and i believe the

joke was i remember this family this is either the mother father daughter son the joke being all asian people look the same it was a joke from Big Lake that I remember. And I wonder who, I have no idea who was so anti-Asian on the writing staff. You have to remember that this was pre-Lynne Sanity. This was like a different, if you remember what America was like back then, there were certain like prejudices at the time that like don't really exist anymore. And you could say certain things. Yeah.

I've always wondered who did make up all those Asian-based jokes. As I say, it is the writing staff. It comes from all different places. And often people don't even remember where this stuff comes from. Yeah. So we don't, I mean, you get a sense of this clip um i notice uh as we cut between because people know how these shows are made um you know we'll just do a one person's angle and then you get the coverage of other people's angles but But gradually as this scene plays out, there's like sort of an increasing amount of,

I guess, blood kind of spattering the table that they're sitting on. And some of the characters close. And some of it looks like they have tried to clean it up. And a lot of that happening, because a lot of the close-ups were, of course, there's close-ups and two shots on Horatio and Chris, because again, they were making all the jokes.

A lot of the blood would be appearing from off-screen towards the areas where I was at at that point because the blood was, again... I don't love talking about this part, and I have apologized to his family because he has passed on since, but there was a man named Hank Hank was a proud union man

he was a teamster he was not a PA maybe like a gaffer a best boy he handled a lot of rigging, wires, electronics and I don't know why Josh

targeted him but Hank really took one and I don't know why Josh targeted him, but Hank really took one for the team. And a lot of the way that Josh claimed that he liked to stay present in scenes by lashing out violently, and for some reason, Hank was the object of his desire with that, and being the star of the show,

I was able to make some demands on Josh's behalf. And I don't know what they had to pay Hank. I don't know exactly what was said or done or promised or threatened, but Hank would very often when I was off camera, I would stay warm as an actor by physically beating this elderly man. And I want to be clear, he did not die from that. He lived through Big Lake and he died of natural causes many years later. Sure. With, I'm sure, some emotional scars, but I did not kill a man. But I did hit and kick and humiliate a man over and over and over again.

I mean, you say natural causes. He drove to Big lake pennsylvania the real the town we're not allowed to say the name legally but the big lake is based on yeah and i believe it's lou morton's hometown yeah and he he filled his pockets with rocks yeah and he walked into the the the big lake. Yeah. I mean, rocks are natural. A lake is natural.

Those are pieces of nature. I did not mean to imply natural causes like old age or anything like that. Natural causes and that nature caused his death. Pertaining to things relating to nature, rocks, lakes. And you did have a sexual. A tree that he crawled out on the limb of a tree and you had a sexual relationship with him well yeah I mean he was a member of the crew

and also with when Dave Itzkoff came from the Times to review the show you very quickly yeah did this kind of sexual psycho drama with him and encouraged him to put it into the piece.

It hit the cutting room floor, unfortunately, but you can Google New York Times. You put New York Times, Gethard. I believe the title was The Unlikely Pressure of Being a Sitcom Star. You can read that article right now, and he does not mention the very heavy amount of, as you say, psychosexual domination I tried to inflict on him. David Itzkoff, to his credit, a true journalist,

one of the only people strong enough to resist Josh's sexual advances. When Josh wanted it, he generally got it. David Itzkoff managed to stay impartial. You will notice in the article he did publish one thing. He did say a quote from me about how I have only cried

one time thus far. That's a quote you can read in the New York Times. Itzkoff left a lot of other quotes and advances and things he witnessed out. I think because there was a certain level of, a certain way to keep this story professional and within the realm of his journalistic interests. And what he didn't explain in the thing is that

you had only cried one time, but it was like a continuous cry. Yeah, it was for four days. It was ongoing even, I think. Off camera, on camera. At the time of that interview. Yeah, even though I generally did not eat, I would go to meals and sit next to other people and cry when they ate. A lot of prolonged eye contact with different people while I just cried.

And if they tried to comfort me or speak I would physically stop them from speaking I would shake them, I would put my hand over their mouths and I would just look them in the eye and I would sob and I would cry and it felt like as Josh had control of different parts of your body in your eyes you, Chris, were crying

but Josh had control of your tongue which was licking up all the tears yeah it was very and enjoying them yeah i mean to the point where it was actually concerned that i was consuming so much i don't know if tears are salt water there's sody certainly the sodium content yeah there's something to worry about onset medic actually did have to again strap me down at one point and do all these sodium checks which I didn't even know were a thing. But yeah. You know, one of the aspects of the sexual side of things that I've never understood,

because it's a physical, although I guess this just shows how much of sexuality actually is mental. There's one thing that Josh was able to do that I've never understood because I've never been able to do it, which was that when Josh would ejaculate, he would not lose his direction even slightly. Ever. Ever. He decided. Right. I remember because we were all sort of witness to a lot of these things.

Absolutely. It would. Like Jay-Z said, on to the next one. On to the next one. It would seem to get more powerful. Yeah, and it wasn't like he would, he wasn't edging. He wasn't stopping himself from ejaculating to continue this sexual domination. He would ejaculate, healthy amounts of ejaculate.

Yeah, so fast, really. And then be able to just turn around and continue. Yeah, the velocity of these things. And I was always amazed, too. If he wanted to ejaculate in a minute's time, he could achieve that. If he wanted to last 90 minutes, he could achieve that. It was almost like he could just choose when to ejaculate, like cocking a shotgun and pulling the trigger.

And just with that look in his eyes, turn around. Who's next? There was a physical cocking motion with the testicles. Yeah, that was not metaphorical. And a sound effect. I think that he was making with your mouth. He would cut both of my testicles in my hand and then pull them forward.

He'd pull them quickly forward and backwards. And while he did that, he'd go, chk, chk go and then when he ejaculated he would go boom he'd go boom and then yeah he would continue on to the next person but it was it was like he would he would make love have intercourse fuck however you want to say it and that was all about the experience and the domination and he was he would say he would say rip yeah he'd say i'm gonna rip you now's the time that And that was all about the experience and the domination and the actual ejaculation. He would say, rip. Yeah, he would say, I'm going to rip you. Now's the time that I rip you with my thickness.

Let's talk about the end of the show. The ratings were obviously good. As you said, the DVD sales were good. I think it was, I guess at the time, Governor George Pataki was the one who got involved and I guess changed the laws to kind of shut this thing down. Yeah, and I mean, because Comedy Central, this was one of these deals, they call them 1090 deals. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

We did 10 episodes and everyone committed to that. And we'll get 90 and if it got picked up that means it would instantly be eligible for syndication which is a very big money prospect for any show and the uh comedy central actually offered to they said we don't want 90 we're going to pick up 200 or 200 we want to commit to an order of 200 episodes of big lake right and governor Governor George Pataki did personally. He came down from Albany when he heard. Which I think was, it was like a public health, public safety issue at the time because your corpus, you know, your corporeal form was sort of becoming

the epicenter of this sort of supernatural zone from Silver Cup Studios. Well, I think when my eyes changed color is when we all got very concerned. I have blue eyes. And when they became like a very deep chestnut brown, it was clear. This needs to stop. And so he did. And I know that's affecting his presidential candidate now, although I think he actually did drop out recently.

And I know a lot of that was the residual resentment over people did want more show. It was interesting because he really took it from both ends because it's like a lot of people said, we want it more Big Lake. Who are you to stop us from this show that we love? I mean, if you remember the ratings from Big Lake, this is a show on Comedy Central,

a cable network that head-to-head is going up against. I mean, it's going head-to-head against Monday Night Football, and it's winning in the ratings. It's going ahead. Special event episodes. CBS, ABC, NBC, these powerhouses put Big Lake up against anything. Big Lake didn't even need to be on a regular schedule.

You place it against other shows, biggest shows, to poach them. It was Lake up against anything. Big Lake didn't even need to be on a regular schedule. You place it against other shows, biggest shows, to poach It was an assassin. Yeah. And I think that's why they did end up airing the finale at 5pm on a Friday was because there was the threat that this would be the end

of television. Yeah. And that people would have their need for entertainment satisfied. There was real and that people would have their need for entertainment satisfied in this one half hour. There was real concern that people would watch the final episode of Big Lake and say they nailed it and we can finally move on. And destroy their TV. Yeah, and there was a lot of viral footage

of broken TVs that had been thrown out of windows on the streets. Did the TV dare to show more content? I have spoken to dozens I mean, dozens of people as I've rebuilt my career who have approached me and said, you know, I've never watched TV again since the last episode of Big Lake

because, frankly, sir, I never had to. And I know Josh at the time was discovering an ability to travel between televisions and actually interact again sexually with viewers. Yeah, that got very intense. Were you able to experience that? Were you sort of following him? I physically experienced sexual satisfaction

with viewers who were having sex with a character on their television screen at the time. And I remember footage from the International Space Station of the satellite. That the show was being beamed to. Taking on sort of Josh's head.

Like one of the big flaps or whatever became his head. Yeah. And he sort of possessed this. It was. The satellite. Remarkable. He really was. I mean, like I said, he lived in that world.

Yeah. And he was self-aware enough to know he lived in that world yeah and he was he was self-aware enough to know that that world was inside tv and therefore he knew yeah you know what it almost was was that television to josh is almost like what lucid dreaming was to us that's when a lot of it really got out of control lucid dreaming a lot of people say that the way you can control it is if you realize you're dreaming and you don't wake up you can then tell yourself to do things yeah control your actions. Like a girl from high school that you summoned. You can say, oh, that girl's behind that door.

Let me open that door. And then she's there. And then you can have that conversation, that wonder that you've always wanted to have. But Josh, it was very similar. When Josh became self-aware that he was a TV character who was able to use me to cross over into our world, he also implicitly understood that TV is a thing that is broadcast and beamed through fiber optics and satellite signals and that he could use all of those for physical, some might say electronic or even metaphysical travel.

This was a very, very strange element of my life because it didn't happen within my body, but my body would generally shut down when he did it. My eyes would roll into my head and I'd have seizures. A lot of that on the show as well. There were so many production delays while I had seizures. Just so many times where everybody had to sit around and wait while I had just...

Let's talk about your life after the show. You have... I will say this, and again, you're moving on to protect me, but Sean... Sean at the top did say he didn't want us to just talk about the Big Lake experience overall. He did say we should talk about the incident. So I don't know if you were planning on bringing that up

later, but I want you to know you don't have to walk away from it on my behalf I think that's a good way to to end the show so we'll get to that are we at the end of the show? wow okay and I think if you want to

address the incident now that would be great and I think it's good for people to hear the lead up to it as well because they're going to to like try to cut straight to that yeah definitely um so yeah go ahead a little context uh dylan blue was the character who played my younger brother he was 13 12 at the time yeah yeah around? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Around that age. He was a boy. He was a minor. And I don't mean of the coal variety. And I know you're trying to lighten the mood, but it's actually very serious.

I just am worried how that's going to come off in this context. But yes, he was underage. He was very underage. And his parents, really good people. Him, great person. And there was a stretch where production stopped entirely because I disappeared and Dylan disappeared. And one thing that many of the people involved in the show know

is that I did charter a private plane. And most of those two and a half days, Dylan and I spent together on that private plane. In the air. In the air. Coming down for refueling. Or often, you know, a tanker jet sort of flying alongside you and refueling in the air. Which I have to say, is the type of thing that you can only afford with big lake money when you get to that level of money yeah you can private a jet and private a refueling jet actually a whole network of refueling

jets to remain in there where people can't stop you or bother you and a lot of people have wondered forever what happened on that plane. I want to be clear. I did not sexually engage with an underage child. I want to get that out of the way right now. That being said, he grew up a lot on that plane in a way that was unfair. And I think I'll leave it at that. But once I kidnapped a child and took to the sky would you say it was worse than a sexual encounter yeah um it's tough to say because i don't want to discount that i don't want anyone who's a survivor of abuse to

listen to this and think i'm discounting that, making any level of joke about it. Right. I would never. I mean, the boy was kidnapped. The boy was kept in a plane for two and a half days. The boy was 80,000 feet in the air at a certain time. But something happened up there. It was on the border of space. I took Dylan to the border of space. A lot of things happened up there. A lot of things happened up there. It's on the border of space. I took Dylan to the border of space. A lot of things happened up there. A lot of things happened up there. And you know, once you kidnap a child

and you start traveling, not just between state lines, but through airspace. I mean, we were over Canada. We were over Mexico. We were in the air for two and a half days straight. At that point, yeah, the governor of New York City is going to personally come down from Albany and shut you down. And it cost a lot of people their jobs, their livelihoods. There are a lot of people who are excited to do 200 more episodes of that. A lot of people who are already putting down deposits on houses. A lot of people who thought they were going to get their kids through college without loans.

And I took that away from those people. Josh I gotta tell you very frankly that when you hear me get emotional like this and I say I that's Josh you can feel it and you can see it and I see you physically getting

back to a place where you're showing fear and I understand because I didn't make it easy on people I never made it easy on people but there were some things that Dylan needed to hear about acting, about life and yes about love at times understand because I didn't make it easy on people. I never made it easy on people, but there were some things that Dylan needed to hear about acting, about life, and yes, about love at times.

I know that what I did cost a lot of people a lot of money, but I am the alpha and that is how it needed to be. We do have to end the show. I see you getting up and walking the door. Yeah, I can step back if you need me for more. Okay, because the door does need to be open for us to be able to leave the studio. Right.

Right, we're going to leave. Right, of course you need to leave. Because nothing lasts forever, does it? Nothing lasts forever. And I've proved that once, and I can prove that again. I can prove that any way you need me to prove that. Nothing lasts forever. And you think just because you're committing this to audio

means that it'll somehow live on. It'll be proof. It'll be evidence. It'll be a record of what happened here. Not necessarily. I can go in that computer. I can live in that. What I'm saying is if you have any cute ideas

about trying to say something right now about certain things that maybe I've brought out of my bag, if you want to verbally name what those are, this audio doesn't need to exist. And I can travel right through these headphones into that computer and I can remove it. So say whatever you want. We'll edit it out.

A listener right now might hear an edit happen and they'll know that that's me being a man of my word. It looks like it looks like you have somehow, it looks like a small version of Chris Gethard in a jar, but

you're Chris Gethard. I'm not Chris Gethard. That's Chris Gethard. He's a little man and he is weak and I am strong. I am strong and I am dominant and this world shall know. The shallow world shall know the depths it needs to see. Dylan Blue holds secrets. Do not listen to this episode.

Do not listen to this podcast. And there will be a time when the world will realize. Do not air this. He's inside the sound file. He's inside the sound file. A time when Dylan Blue understands that their secrets are meant to be revealed. Bye. Bye.

I'm saying bye. The show has to end. And then I will not be the villain. I will be your hero. And you will look back on Big Lake and you will know it was never a television show. It was a Bible. It was a guide. Bye.

It's not working. It was a guide on how you should live your life and how you need to live your life. And the gods you need to repent to, my friends, are within Big Lake. Bye! Look to your DVDs and know the gods will not forgive you. Hollywood Handbook.

Hey, everybody. It's Paul Scheer. I have a podcast with June Diane Raphael and Jason Manzoukas where we watch the worst movies ever made and then we try to figure out how did this get made? Do we get answers? No no but i think it's a

fun time it's kind of like talking with all your friends after you watch a really shitty movie here take a listen from what i know of tornadoes they're they're wind essentially that's picture and what do you know i'm about to tell you with an amateur storm chaser go ahead wind starts to sort of pick up dirt and debris and it kind of collapses. You know nothing about tornadoes. No, no, no. No, no. Let her go.

Listen to How Did This Get Made on Earwolf or your favorite podcast app. We would love it if you did. Hollywood Handbook is brought to you by Wolf Cool Productions, a subsidiary of Calvin and Hobbes. Oh, baby. That was a HeadGum Podcast.