Hollywood Handbook - Clea DuVall and Jason Mantzoukas, Our Love & Santa Friends

Episode Date: May 30, 2023

CLEA DUVALL returns with JASON MANTZOUKAS to make a major change to Love & Santa.See Hollywood Handbook live and streaming May 30th with guest Mary Holland at Dynasty Typewriter! Click for ticketsWatch the video recording of today's episode with Clea and Jason at Patreon.com/TheFlagrantOnes.Like the show? Rate Hollywood Handbook 5-Stars on Apple PodcastsAdvertise on Hollywood Handbook via Gumball.fm See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is a HeadGum Podcast. Can you hear the theme song? Okay, so I just put the headphones up to my ear. As it ended? And I heard just a faint, like, so I think you might need to play the theme song. Play it again, please. It sounds very quiet. Play it again, please, and make it louder. I'm going to put the cans on just to see, like, level. Yeah, that'll actually be good to have somebody we respect. So they made us feel, can you hear me? So low, though.

Okay. Hayes is very low, though. Okay. Hayes is very low. Hayes is a little low in the can. It's kind of mixing with the theme song right now. Did you turn the theme song off? I can't hear myself at all in the cans. I'm getting nothing. Okay.

Can you hear yourself now? Are you talking to me? Yeah. He said, can you hear yourself?? Are you talking to me? Yeah. He said, can you hear yourself? But he was talking. But what Casey's saying is not like, can you hear yourself in the headphones? He's saying like, can you hear yourself? Is he saying I sound like an asshole?

Can I be honest? I think he thinks that's what the Verizon guy used to say. Can you hear yourself? Can you hear yourself now? The guy that then went on to work for sprint yeah so i i got a big zero in my in my cans yeah and i'm also noticing nobody else is wearing cans well yeah so this is sort of headgum's policy they said they're like taking podcasts back from the left or something but they just don't they're like well that explains the big

woke with a red line through it yeah outside that the messaging here yeah i'm gonna take the cans oh it's like hands are actively making this harder yeah no they um find headphones to be like feminine and infantilizing or something like the language was confusing to me but basically we were like can we have headphones and they were like oh um i guess you could but we were made to feel a lot of shame around well and the passive-aggressive move clearly from them is to make give you headphones but make them sound like abject dog shit yeah they they always sound bad and they do put them out now and they go we have your headphones here like if you need that the woke sign is that so the o is a red circle with always like a no

like inside the symbol is scott ocherman yeah i guess to them that's like the symbol of woke like the progressive yeah uh which like i will say the graphic design is great like it look it's well it's gorgeous it's well done it's a great sign a craftsman was involved like there's no no one's criticizing the work that went into the sign i think the message to me is like it's confusing because i don't think of scott as that a scott woker man i just don't think of him that like you know kind of not you know i don't know not that he's not like but i wasn't in studio when he came he did the show recently and i wasn't in studio so maybe he did some like very woke stuff like i just you remember yeah as i'm looking back it's like

As I'm looking back, it's like, no. What did he do? I want to bring Clea in because it's the first time. We've never met you before. You've never done this. First time in studio. What I'm hoping is that that just sort of had something to do with all of it. That that was the problem. Yes. I think some intention setting would actually be amazing for this. that that just sort of had something to do with all of it. That that was the problem. Yeah.

Yes. I think some intention setting would actually be amazing for this. I am so happy that you're saying this, Hayes, because I was like, you know, when Kevin emailed me, I was like, my first thought was absolutely not. Like, I'm not putting myself back in that situation because it was, it hurt, you know? And I felt like Sean and I, you and I kind of got to a better place towards the end.

But then you never called. You never wrote. And I was like, oh, so maybe I imagine. I don't know. But so then I just thought maybe we can do it differently. And maybe in person, you know, like being in each other's space, we'll be able to like right just be you know just be people right and so you were just not going to show up at all even though like you do have

a financial responsibility for every the way this has played out so far uh you are like a hundred percent yeah legally responsible for everything that that that has been uhed, I'll say it. Mm-hmm. Yes. Into the open sewer of this project. But, but... Now, is there going to be a flush sound? Because I can't hear it.

I mean, it's all I hear when I'm going to sleep at night. That would be, to me, that is the next level of podcasting. And it actually applies to what we're here to talk about. And I think, Hayes, you're being very fair. You're being very kind. What Clea has done is worse than how you're characterizing it. And yet, the industry is at a crossroads. Yes.

It's a moment of upheaval. And it's not just our project that was flushed. And it's not just Kluia who's a bad actor in this situation. We have all kinds of things that have been frozen, thrown away, sidelined, production shut down. Like, you know, there's striking, there's demands, there's all these things happening. And like this movie that we weren't going to be able to make,

forget whose fault it was, maybe it was never a movie. What I think is, so love and santa jason are you familiar with the love and santa property of course you know as a someone who's been listening to this show every episode since the since you guys honest to god we're talking about reality shows yeah yeah since you guys were talking about reality shows i've been listening to you break it down you didn't just find out about that before no the record okay can you speak about it so like no i have the way you talk about it about you guys about what you do i need your thoughts i need you are you know i have a podcast app that catches all the podcasts i listen to and then I have an app that just does you guys okay

and that's the app I open first because I want to know what's up and if there's a new app great I'm listening immediately if there's not I'm listening to the last app that's in there boom I'm re-listening why the two different apps because I want I have one Hollywood handbook dedicated app. Okay. I've got one app. You know you can change app names. So I've got a podcast app that's just called The Boys. It's an app dedicated to you guys. So, yes, I'm familiar with the project. Yeah.

How it originated. The Boys are up in town. I'm familiar with Mary Holland's involvement. I'm familiar with Mackenzie Davis's involvement. Okay. Wow. These are above the title names. These are bold-faced names. Oh, God, yes.

And they are both out. Like, I just want to be totally clear about that. Which, again, let me be clear. I'm okay with it. Okay. Great for the project. I'm okay with it. I think they both have terrible reputations.

They didn't get it. I met them both. I dislike them. I don't think they're, and I think they're, I'll say it, not talented. Nasty, nasty, nasty ladies and no talent. Yeah. And it was frustrating. Some people, like, fulfill, like, the reason they're supposed to be there at that time, you know, and then move on.

They did not do that even, like, were, did not even fulfill any initial purpose. do that even like were did not even fulfill any initial purpose and i mean truthfully i was kind of burning them off because when they signed on for the happiest seasons they i had in the ball yeah that i have the happiest season well i'm sorry yeah um you know like i signed them for like a two-picture deal so i was sort of like burning them off you know with love and santa yeah so you're okay so we're good yeah we're good yeah so i but i thought you know with love and santa now you're on it yeah so you're okay so we're good yeah we're good yeah so i but i thought you know like i'm glad jason is here because it's kind of like new energy that terrible movie is behind us like boat you know happiest season of all and right i'm actually i don't know a couple bad movies i was so delighted to be invited you know

kevin emailed me and said the boys have a business opportunity. Can you come on? This is an emailing fool we have over here. And then he emailed me again and said, another email from me. Hey, man, sorry to give you so many emails. He does that thing where he gives you a lot of front stuff just to get to the business. You know what I mean? Yes, yes. Like, hey, man, sorry to. He softens you up.

A lot of, a lot of. He works the body yeah until you're out of wind weekend i went and saw fast and furious fast 10 so good loved it yeah hope you're well remember we got a podcast coming up today and just a few and it's a lot and i just am like dude i just want to know where's the studio yeah usually usually when somebody says this could have been an email, they're referring to like a long meeting or something. But with Kevin,

what they're referring to is 20 to 30 emails. Oh yeah. It's like, this could have been an email. Yeah. You know, that's the feeling that I have a lot with him. I feel like Kevin's doing a thing where if you stitch all of his first

paragraphs together, it's a bit of creative writing. Oh. You know what I mean? Like without all the business elements yeah he's forging friendships i think uh-huh it's wow um and a croissant that right and across yeah and a croissant across sticks yeah oh it's a cross stick lacrosse stick yes it's the first the first letter of every subject line if you stitch them together right like spells out a message yeah i want to talk about podcasts and sort of the role that they can serve in this moment as the writers are on strike uh like you said productions are shutting down pencils down

pencils down and so i hollywood's a union when we talked about potentially converting this property into a podcast i was skeptical at first that thought it might be sort of undermining what like some of the writers are doing like trying to like get into the void that's being left and no of course of course there are opportunists that are going to cynically get involved with podcasts because they can't do something else what i'll say about this project for us is sure we saw it as a movie we have been unable to put frame one of a film together we've actually been able to finish three podcasts right yeah yeah so it's like is that the universe telling me something i think so right well clear what What you said about how the human brain needs stories to survive and how to step, actually step away and actually stop writing in this moment and not try to sell something some

other way would be like committing genocide, essentially. Starving the human race. Yeah. No. You get brain hunger story hunger you know and and if and if creatives are not sharing and are not expressing in some way not only will we go batty end up in a rubber room padded room yeah uh uh jacket you know fancy jacket on uh the the the what's the fucking thing called? The straitjacket?

I don't know. Tuxedo? That's closer. Wetsuit? It might be a wetsuit, right? Sure. Yeah. It's family.

A wetsuit is rubber, and in a rubber room, you'd wear a rubber suit, right? Yeah, sure. So a wetsuit and a rubber room. A wetsuit and a rubber room. That is clearly what people say. Yeah. You don't need a straitjacket once you're in a rubber room, you'd wear a rubber seat. Yeah, sure. So a wetsuit and a rubber room. That is clearly what people say. Yeah, yeah. You don't need a straitjacket once you're in a rubber room. No. And so we do have to pick the pencils back up,

and people say scab, like that's like a bad thing, because without that, you're just like bleeding everywhere. It's an enormous essential part of healing. Otherwise you'll bleed out. And the town's wounded, right? There's a deep wound running through the center of this industry right now. So that won't heal without a scab. No.

And also we are approaching a holiday that I don't feel we have any sort of content around, which is Father's Day, which is thank you father's day father's day wow can really so we initially thought about doing love and santa with like a couple weeks of lead time before christmas right yeah and then it was going to be a saint patrick's day pride and then i think which worked but and then was it Easter? Were we going for Easter? We were doing Easter. Yes, Santa was coming back from having OD'd

next to Carson's pool. That's right. And we blew through all of those deadlines. I was sort of thinking we're sort of coming back on a nice cushion before Christmas.

Oh. No, but your ambition, I love that ambition. Let's hit Father's Day. I really do think we can do this. We have a few weeks. And I think we do our best work under pressure. We came hungry to this.

And also capitalize on the moment. Right now, people are starving for something. I mean, they're opening up all of their apps. They're turning on everything where they watch stuff, and they've got like zero to watch, zero to listen to. And dads have never been hotter. Yeah. No, I mean, dad bod?

Dad bod just started blowing up. I just heard about dad bod like two weeks ago. Yeah. And it's what a great idea. Conceptually, like that there are dads who have bods. Oh, yes. And there's so much swimming with the movie. With the movie.

The movie's a huge swimming movie. And Father's Day is a big swim day. Oh, yeah. We did. Well, because everybody swims with dad on Father's Day. Dad's in the pool, you know. Splash him a little bit. He splashes you back.

He's tossing you in there. Yeah, he'll throw you. No matter where you are in the country, you're going to be spending the day in water with your dad. It's a lake. It's the ocean. It's a swimming hole. It's a pool.

That's the day. Yeah. If we get to December and Christmas, I'm sort of worried that the strike could be over by then, and then people might be trying to buy other stuff. Come on, don't jinx it be that would be a huge problem that would be a huge problem for us if people were like in the market for other things yeah um cleo you haven't seen it but i've emailed you six times can you move your microphone a little closer to your mouth like this wow that was perfect thank

you it's the kind of thing ke, that if everybody was wearing headphones, they could have measured for themselves. I agree. I've already emailed them. It's not really a Kevin thing. They made us feel very foolish for wearing headphones the first time we came in here.

Was it because you're on camera and they don't want you wearing headphones on camera? So they didn't even have headphones on offer and we were like, hey, can we have headphones? It doesn't feel like you're recording, does it, without the cams? I'm assuming, honest to God, I'm assuming we haven't started yet. Have we?

Right. And you could say that in a good way, like, oh, it doesn't even feel like we're recording a podcast. Yeah, it feels like we're just talking to our buddies. But it's actually quite bad. Yeah. No, we don't mean that in a positive way at all. For this show, it's bad. Yeah.

And then we just had an episode with Amir Blumenfeld, who owns this entire shop. And he was like, you guys don't wear headphones? Like, where are the headphones? You guys don't wear headphones? We don't want to get anyone in trouble. This is a lot of mixed messaging. Yeah. So the head of the company?

Yes. Wanted headphones and is asking you guys as if you're the people saying no headphones? The environment here is so unbelievably toxic. like it yeah and that's what we were trying to get out of by being in person and now we're just like in the in the center in the hub of i could have just done this on zoom and not had to have the person at the reception just swab my nasal cavity so hard yeah right um and i said i can do this don't have to go that high this myself and she was like no no no I'll do it I insisted on doing it myself and she shoved my hand up my nose

she grabbed your wrist she said you know we got it when there's a little bit of blood on the swab is Anya here? she just took some of our did she take the blood? and she left? I think yeah she usually takes the blood

and then she goes did she actually leave? I think, yeah, she usually takes the blood and then she goes. Did she actually leave? I don't know. Since we started recording, I haven't had tabs on her. Keep talking. I want to see if she's here so she can. Yeah. I just need her to share what happened to me when I took my test.

Yeah, it's. Oh, he's got locked in. No, but it's just they obviously want you to be uncomfortable. There's some desire. Is he mad? He seems. Did he? Like bringing up the test thing really seemed,

he like could not like get up and out fast. Did I say something? Did I get someone in trouble? Is he firing someone right now? I don't think he can. I mean, we've been put in the position where we're told often that we will be fired. Oh, okay. Which like, at this point, I'm like,

fucking go ahead. Wow. Like, fire my ass. Yeah. Like, do your worst. I was doing fine before HeadGum. Not that good, but okay. I was going to say, were you?

I was doing bad, but I was, you know, but I made my way here and I'll get back on my belly and slither somewhere else. Oh, jeez. Like, that's, you know, that's just what it is. So, like, you know, like, go ahead and fire me. But maybe Hayes is going to cause that to happen now. Wow. Okay. Okay.

Sorry. Great. Were you just yelling at someone out there? Like, did we just get someone in trouble? Well, we can just talk about it. I didn't mean... Hi, Anya. Hi, Anya.

I wasn't trying to start trouble for anybody. We were just talking a little bit about the testing process here and some of what happened. Do you want to come sit here for a minute? Yeah. I'm happy to be here. So something really scary happened to me before yeah and i took my covet test and you were watching me the whole time i guess to make sure i was doing it right or something right and can you describe what happened to me yeah so your swab broke off the end of it and you looked at me like it was my fault it was in my nose

and it was just like kind of sticking out of your nose it broke off and then you looked at me and I was like you'll be fine a whole shard of it broke off and then she mouthed it worked and then she mouthed it worked it worked to someone who I couldn't see

who was like behind the counter somewhere, crouched down. And there could still be, I actually am not sure, there could still be shrapnel in my... That's the thing you've got to be careful of. Inside my nose. And microplastics. It's like, this entire place is like coated in microplastics. This place? Yes, it's freaking lousy.

I asked before I came here is it bpa free is the studio bpa free i was told yes but i think probably it's bpa free free uh interesting should we check and see if there's anything in your nose now or any pieces she would love that huh yeah after how far she went into jason's and the way she grabbed Clea's wrist. She was jamming it up my nose like crazy and said, sit still, sit still. I was very uncomfortable. You were in a meeting when you came in here, when I asked you to come in here? Yeah, you pulled me out.

You were in a meeting. What was the meeting about? It was about how we dynamically insert the head gum stingers onto this show. You were dynamically inserting a huge piece of shrapnel into my head. Into Hayes' damn brain. Yeah, that's the second part of the meeting. We didn't get to that part yet. I just needed confirmation for what happened.

It was so crazy and so scary and dangerous. I was standing right next to you, and I honestly blocked it out. When you said, let's go talk about what happened during my covid test i was like wait nothing happened and then when you started describing it it was like the memory came rushing back to me of like seeing my friend who i care a lot about have a covid swab essentially explode inside of his head like it was fucking rigged to blow it almost felt like it was a prank like it was it a prank swamp like is it it was it supposed to be it's like a prank environment well so jason's right we were kind of hoping you were going to do them on camera but we didn't catch the pranks like now that we were just like let's scrap this is like prank wars all over again i mean it's so disgusting it's so toxic like you can take

amir and jake out of the prank wars but you can't take the prank wars out of amir and jake they're synonymous you know jake got pranked essentially to death he doesn't exist anymore he's gone r.i.p to do the prank thing over there where there are no cameras was a bad call kind of like in pre-production that was like something we talked about do you know how marty like looks a lot like jake is that creepy or what like he's replacing i feel like they brought marty in like to be jake's double and people were like that's not jake and they were like, that's not Jake. They were like, oh, yeah, this is some other guy that works here now. He's another co-founder.

They had to create a new. Really? But we have to talk about Love and Santa, Anya. I'm so sorry. Do you want me to get Marty in here now? Nah, I can't. We've got to talk about Love and Santa. We really have to get into this project.

And we need to have an internal conversation about that. We really have to move. Well, I'll be in there have an internal conversation about that. We really have to move. Well, I'll be in there in a meeting. Okay. And so if you guys want to meet us in there afterwards. Okay. Sounds good. Thank you.

No, thank you. So that was really scary, what happened to me. You should talk to a lawyer. Let's get it like... We're not allowed to. That's part of the contract. Usually people have an idea for a lawyer. It's all settled by arbitration.

They just kept talking about arbitration. Class action. Internal arbitration. Which to me, it doesn't seem good for us. It seems like you guys are in a bad deal. Yeah. But I feel like if this does well,

it can maybe get you out of it. So if Love and Santa takes off. Love and Santa is the path. I really believe that this could get you out of this toxic and dangerous environment. If it went viral in one moment. I almost don't even want to jinx it like that because I want to go viral so much. If it went legitimately viral, I would straight up tell HeadGum and all the monsters here to fully kiss my grits. Wow. I would say that.

I would just say it. But you would say if it went viral. Well, otherwise, you know, I mean, I'm just. Yeah. But you are saying it here now on the stream. So people could clip this and make it viral. They could. Yeah.

Well, me saying Kiss My Grit goes viral. Is that going to. And Kevin probably wouldn't. Kevin's choices for like what to clip clip are some of the least viral shit. Yeah. He's actively fighting virality. It's like the antidote. Let's put it that way.

What Kevin clips is the antidote. The clips are antibiotic. Antibiotic clips. They're fighting the virus for sure. Hollywood Ham. This week on the Patreon, the boys discuss HeadGum's studio rules on the pro version, and the Flager ones are mostly talking all things basketball. Plus, see Hollywood Handbook live in Los Angeles May 30th with special guest Mary Holland at the Dynasty Typewriter.

And if you can't make it to the show, you can watch the live stream for up to a week. The ticket links for that are in the episode description check out all these shows and the video for today's episode with clea and jason at patreon.com slash the flagrant ones be a better you in 2024 with babble the science-backed language learning app that actually works. Don't pay hundreds of dollars for private tutors or waste hours on apps that don't really help you speak the language. And the question that I always get, people stop me and they say like, hey, I trust you. I know when you endorse a product, it's something that you really use and care about.

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back in December was when we were sort of thinking about making a deal talking to HeadGum and stuff like that and I think the hope was that we could just use Love and Santa or use HeadGum to kind of drive up the Love and Santa

deal a little bit but Love and Santa has been such a disaster that it has actually ended up- It's radioactive. It's a radioactive property. I mean, it was actually, it was put into the deal points that like HeadGum would not be associated

with Love and Santa. Yes. So like this episode doesn't even count towards our contract with them. And every time a new version of Love and Santa was proposed, your deal went down several thousand dollars, is what I also heard.

That's right. There weren't a lot to spare. Well, I'm broke, so I need this. I need this to work. Good, I'm glad. And now that the strike is on, I mean, if I can be involved in any way, I'm on board. Dude, yes.

We need you. We need some fresh eyes on this thing. So what this is, the core elements are, it's a Swimply. Oh. Did we lose that? You didn't hear about Swimply? You didn't hear about Swimply? No.

Swimply is out. Yeah, Swimply is out. Yeah, Swimply is out. And I'm not going to blame it completely on Mackenzie, but she didn't help. But I did secure someone new, a new investor, Swamply, which it's people renting. It's the same concept, but they are swamps. They're renting their swamp. Which I actually think is better. I think it is better.

How is it better? Because I don't see people as enthusiastic about renting a swamp as they would be about renting a nice pool. But you think that. But pools, everybody has a pool. Yes, that's what makes Swimply so smart. People really want to swim in a pool. Yes, but have you ever swam in a swamp? There's bugs and stuff.

Exactly, but it's giving people new experiences. Exactly. What's nice about a swamp, what is nice about a swamp, I will say, is you can rent that swamp, party hard, trash the place, walk out and not think. They don't even know the difference. It's a swamp.

It's the swamp itself. You never hear about swamp pollution. Exactly. Or saving them. Truly no one gives a fuck. No. That's cool about the swamp. It's like driving an old beater around town.

Yeah. You know what I mean? It's like a status symbol of its own in a way. Scratch on my ride. Yeah. Make yourself comfortable. Got plenty of company. It gives more specificity, I think, also just to the store.

It sets a tone that I think we were missing. That Santa's in a swamp. sets a tone that Santa is in a swamp that Santa OD's in a swamp and that they're having I guess a Father's Day event all fathers no kids it's Father's Day

they're not going to go to Carson's for Father's Day this year they go every year but they promise they're not going to go to Carson's we always say we're not going to go we always end up going I'm not caving this year I'm not going to go to Carson's for Father's Day this year. They go every year, but they promise they're not going to go to Carson's for Father's Day. We always say we're not going to go. We always end up going, I'm not caving this year. I'm not going to Carson's for Father's Day. I'm going to a swamp. And so instead.

How about I'm going to the swamp? And that's why we bring Jason in. I'm going to the swamp. Make it feel more like a destination, not just any old swamp. I'm going to the swamp. Okay it feel more like a destination, not just any old swamp. I'm going to the swamp. Okay. And now I want to go. Yeah.

Who doesn't? If you feel like there's only one, it's like the North Pole. The swamp. Santa goes to the North Pole. It doesn't go to a pole. Right. Yeah. And we can figure out, if we can like whatever swamp we end up like scouting and

like is right. And if we can make that like the swamp, like that's huge. There is only one on the site currently because it is like it is a startup. So we have to use. So Swampli. Is it booked at all? It's it is pretty booked. They have some windows.

But it's a podcast. I don't know that we need the swamp. But I love it to sound authentic. Thinking about podcasts and Jason, like you having some expertise on this, the combination of podcasting and airboats. Love it. Yes. I love it. Okay.

That was a huge concern for me. I don't think it should be at all. Okay. Like, I think that's going to be, I think that's additive to the project. It's like the loudest way to move. Yes. Any kind of fan boat, any kind of, I think what people are craving inside of content is authenticity.

Okay. Right. That is the most important thing right now. It's gotten fake. Because we can barely get bullshit man look at this shit this is fake man but that's the thing is you're really kicking that real table and that people know they're listening to this and they can hear that now if you were saying just dump those sound effects in the the modern audience is hip to all this manufactured bullshit this is mr toilet flush i

mean you remember he wanted a real toilet when i said is the bathroom miked what's miked in here now now i know the bathroom is not miked which i think is a huge mistake for myriad reasons but did you notice they answer too fast yeah even right before you and they said no. But did you notice they answered too fast? Yeah. Right? Even before you... And they said, no, why? What did you hear? And I said, no, what I heard is

I want there to be flushes when I want flushes. Yeah. We got to have that flush sound available. It should be real. It should be authentic And for me,

they said, no, why? What did I hear? I mean, what did you hear? And also, think about this. Wouldn't it be great

if you're doing a show in here, right? And there's a green light that goes on. Boom. That means someone's in there. So now you know there's going to be a flush soon. So now you can play to that impending flush. You can start seeding stuff.

You can start playing with whoever's in the bathroom. They don't even know. Like the airplane. That's the fun of the airplane. Building the anticipation for the flush. Yes,'t even know. Like the airplane. That's the fun of the airplane. Building the anticipation for the flush. Yes, for that catharsis. When you're in the plane and you see the light turn green to red.

And everyone just kind of leans forward. We know what's up. What's thrilling to me. It's not necessarily about the flush itself. But withholding the flush itself uh-huh but withholding the flush oh yeah until they crave the flush yeah you know what i mean oh yeah and then people at home and then with the

they cannot they can't contain it this so i mean that if i heard if i'm just on the pod listening at home the minute i know there's a flush coming, I need to go to the – you're making people have cravings of their own or impulses of their own. I would need to go to the bathroom. Think of how effective that would be to really control the habits of your listener. If you could put some of that into Love and Santa, the podcast. To force someone to go to the bathroom against their will. With a podcast.

Now think about that in terms of the swamp. Right. That's why, sorry, not to bring this full circle. The swamp is nature's toilet. That's why you record in the swamp. Right. That's why you record on a fan boat. And the fan boats are part of it.

It drains into the swamp. You said there's only one swamp. What kind of swamp? Is this like a Cajun swamp? Is this a bayou situation? Yeah, it's a bayou situation. Cajun Santa. Cajun Santa.

Yeah. I mean, because that's a Santa we never get to see. Exactly. Santa making gumbo. Santa doing craw dance. Like a Cajun Santa. Like a Bayou Santa. We've never seen it.

Yeah. Gators instead of reindeer. I mean. I mean, huge. Don't. On air. Huge. Yeah, right?

Same names? I mean, kind of. Yeah. Well, we can't change that. Because we have to be really careful, too careful about what we change in the writing. Oh, okay. So we got to keep those names. Oh, that's right.

So as writers, we can't change any writing because Pencil's down. Right. Pencil's down. So it is what it is. Right. But we can kind of nudge the Pencil.

It's down, not picking it up. Oh, gosh. If it makes some mark on the script and kind of just you know yeah puts a little parenthetical

Cajun accent in some of these lines yeah a lot of them would work are we doing anything with giant Bin Laden was the giant robot

Bin Laden coming out of the ocean Big Laden Osama Bin Laden I'll be honest I was nervous I was being asked here to play Osama bin Laden. I'll be honest. I was nervous I was being asked here to play Osama bin Laden.

So thrilled that that hasn't come across, the transom. But I mean, I think, you know, in a movie like this, I mean, he's somebody that was known to hide in places like the caves of Tora Bora. So why wouldn't he maybe be in a swamp? Well, he's hiding in caves and I believe got dumped into the ocean. Correct. And as we just said, it drains into the swamp. Yeah.

So it could be just the corpse of Big Latin. Well, he's like, he's bad. Perfectly preserved by the swamp. The powers of the swamp, right? perfectly preserved by the swamp the powers of the swamp right the sulfurs and the bubbling ooze that comprises the swamp is like you know given new life something that we didn't really get to last time was swamp zombie bin laden yeah go ahead no no no i he so he right before it was the ocean now it's a swamp he raises raises out of the swamp and then what? I think that we got so caught up.

We had it was something like we were updating some of the concepts. It was SEAL Teen Six. Oh yeah, and that's where Sean came in. Oh no, it was

one person whose name was Neal Teen Six. Oh, yeah. And that's where Sean came in. Oh, no. And Sean, you're in. It was one person whose name was Neil. Yes, it was Neil. Neil. The problem was that it was a six year old. So you guys were possibly saying it could be a 16 year old. Yeah. And then I would play.

And then you would play it. I don't listen to the episodes because they are so painful to live through. So I'm not being on the other end of some of the shit you're doing during some of them man i'm not i'm not i'm not doing it i'm not taking the bait i'm not taking the bait there's no bait here like we're just having a very honest conversation there should be there has to be at the top there should be a lot of energy to the swamp yes yes you get bait you rent the fan boat like that is the that is the between civilization and the deep swamp yeah this is the last vestige of what and it's just somebody so like a shaloub or somebody runs the bait shop or something i love it yes there if you can't if

you've worked with amazon if like if we can get a thing where you can just click and just get bait. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, absolutely. It just comes out of the podcast or whatever. Yeah. I feel like they're working on that technology. It's only subscribe and save right now.

Okay. So I think for singular orders, that's not going to happen. But people are going you know this is right in the sense that you should be able to click inside the podcast for product this is what i'm wondering like we're talking about this as a podcast but it's feeling very visual to me yeah like it's feeling very exciting visually so a visual podcast, which is essentially what we're doing currently? Yeah. I'm wondering if we have AI animate this. Oh, interesting. Wow. Wow.

I've seen it make Captain America and Aquaman race each other on motorcycles and they both explode. I've seen it do some pretty killer stuff. I know, and they get the fingers and teeth weird and stuff, but isn't that kind of good for a swamp zombie? For a swamp zombie being biglotted, it's like... Hmm, biglotted. Biglotted.

For AI, AI could actually be into that if we're trying to sweep the deal for the AI. How big like into that if we're like trying to sweep the deal. Yeah. How big do you think Big Lon is? Because the man himself was large. I know. I know.

So like. So to say that he's big. To say that he's big really connotes something quite large. Well, before he was rising up out of the ocean. Now he's rising up out of the swamp. The swamp. So it is a kaiju kind of thing.

Yeah, but like the swamp is like not, it's kind of not that big. Swamp's not as big, yeah. And I think it's kind of pretty shallow. But I think that's good. So maybe he's like 7'1".

Oh, okay, that's fine. Okay. Yeah. Before I was thinking he was like 400 or like. Then we can't call him Big Lottie. He's just a little bigger? 7'1 is big.

But how tall was he? He was like 6'7. Yeah, I know, but that's what I'm saying. If you met Bin Laden, the difference between him being 6'7. We're making him wider, yes. We're making him wider. Okay. We're making him wider. Okay. Okay.

Yes. We don't want a Yao situation where his feet are giving up on him before he's done with the move. Before Yao's feet are giving up on him. His feet gave up. They just don't have pace in his abilities anymore. They quit, man. Their feet were done. Their feet had some quit in them.

Yeah. They walked. man. Their feet were done. Their feet had some quit in them. Yeah. They walked. Boo. Ugh! So Bin Laden rides us out of the swamp. Hey, if you're here, you're with us, you're safe. And Santa fights Bin Laden? I guess that was the thing that I really got hung up on.

He comes out of the swamp. Yeah. And then what does Santa do? Like Santa fights him. Well, I want to say this just to explore it. And maybe it's not the idea. Maybe it's the idea that gets us to the idea. But so we're going to see Big Laden.

We're going to expect him to be a baddie. But what if he's there to help Santa? Okay. And deliver presents. Wow. Wow. Big Laden is delivering presents. Big Laden has to deliver presents.

It's interesting. Santa died. Who will drive the sle the sled who would you expect less to step into that role but big lot yeah right so but that's what i'm saying is like the fact that it's surprising the fact that you couldn't predict it isn't that what makes this a story worth telling yeah like i'm we've seen santa deliver. That's check that one off. You know, we we've got enough of that.

I haven't seen Santa OD in a swamp and then big Laden rises out in some kind of zombie form. He's the only one that can drive the sleigh and he makes Christmas happen. But I just want to make, make clear what you're saying. It's not that Santa ODs in the swamp goes into the swamp and then emerges as big lottie no this isn't a transformation the swamp doesn't transform him no and the timing is coincidental okay okay the timing is that's you know that's a little movie magic and we may

want to bolster that that this is a special day in the swamp or something or it's got extra juices well it's father's day yeah you know he has to deliver both of them are fathers santa and big yeah sure it's it's it's what unites them maybe maybe there's some shared magical thread that connects the two of them and the story of like someone that doesn't understand the spirit of the holiday, like taking over for Santa. Honestly, who is Grinchier than Big Lot? Is there a bigger real-life Grinch in our modern American history

than Big Lot? Another Scrooge, a greater Scrooge I cannot think of. Yeah, the real Grinch used to kind of kick his dog on the butt a little bit. Not even that much. It was bad. It was rough with him. He was definitely rough with him. He was rough with him, but also the dog was resilient.

There was a relationship there. Do you want to tie it too much to Santa and a Christmas carol? Do you want Big Laden saying things like bah humbug? Do you want to lean into those tropes? Or is this truly like a Father's Day? Once Santa is dead, we're not even engaging in Christmas storytelling anymore. Well, should he, I mean,

should he absorb sort of some of Santa's magic and then also absorb maybe some of his Cajun influence that I think we're going to miss, you know, in the second half of the movie, if we don't keep that alive. And I'd love to have him say bah humbug something like that copyright issues i don't know if he could he probably could say something like drink athletic greens ag1 wait a minute it's full of vitamins wait this sorry this feels like an ad it's a a podcast. It's a podcast, man.

But you are holding up a jar full of green and are doing, are you doing, is this a dynamic ad being placed inside the show? I'm just a guy inserting his greens into his gut flora. I'm feeling a lot more dynamic now that i've got all these unique vitamins and minerals are you able to click on that here that's coming okay that's good i would be great we've been talking we've been talking to fake jake talking to marty out there about it the the cajun thing i'm a little i was just looking up uh so i just like to do like due diligence you know like i trust you yeah uh but or at least i think you think what you're saying is is real yeah but like i you know just gotta just gotta check okay there is a

swamply there is only one swamply location that was all accurate. It is pretty booked up, but there are windows. That's all correct. You said it was a Cajun Swamp, which I guess it is. It's in Santa Fe. I love Santa Fe. Any excuse to let go.

I love the different jewels. The mesas. Yes. Breaking Bad. excuse to let go i love the different jewels and like the mesas yes well ranking bad albuquerque but that's okay yeah so close though do they ever drive through you know just the fact that there that there's a swamp that that's where the swamp is i don't know if it's naturally occurring doesn It doesn't look like it. It looks like a very big spill of some kind. And the fact that it's Cajun in Santa Fe, we're just even looking at it, I'm almost worried that whatever spilled

has made people there Cajun in some way. Yeah. I mean, to be clear, no one can go in the swamp. We can't touch the liquid. That is, can't even like legally call it water in the swamp. Yeah. Okay. And we need to stay maybe 100 yards to be safe away from the swamp.

So we'll have to do a lot with the camera. Okay. Which, you know, might be a case to keep it a podcast just because of the proximity to the swamp like we could put like no visual element you know that reaches so we can hear the swamp but i'd love to hear my director say we'll have to do a lot with the camera that's like yeah well but to be, we are, I believe, talking about a podcast. Yeah, well. Yeah, we were.

And then, like, she's talking about the camera. Okay. That gets my mind turning. We had also discussed at one point having AI animate the podcast. Okay. To provide a visual element. And that's some of the stuff this thing can do. It's happening again. AI animate the podcast to provide a visual element. And that's some of the stuff this thing can do. It's happening again.

I think the AI thing is, you know, that's distracting everybody from the real conversation that needs to be had. You know, it just feels like something that's getting floated out here so that we get distracted and talk about AI a bunch. But to me, I mean, I'm here because I think the long-form narrative podcast potential in what you guys are talking about is dot, dot, dot, limitless. Right, and that's where it's at still. Why just have people sit down and just talk and not put money into the front end of a podcast?

You know what I mean? And also like a podcast that's about something. Yes. That gives me something that isn't just idiots sitting around talking about something dumb. Right. It's really like, oh no, here is, how about this? Here's storytelling. Right.

Remember it? Yes. We used to think this was important we used to gather around a fire and tell stories and it's no longer pretending that you have friends hanging out with you when you're in your car it's pretending that you're watching a movie that has no pictures that's not as well executed like that's the fucking future of the mind that's podcast that's right yes that's podcast that's podcast that's a real toilet flush yes yeah you know that's so cool man yeah i'm inspired now i think you're right we're just are we going like like this is my question. You say we need the authenticity. We can't get, you said 100 feet?

Yeah. Okay, so there's some wiggle room there? We have some wiggle room to be further away. Mm-hmm. So anything more than 100 feet works. Yeah. Which is a lot. Well, we're much more than 100 feet from it right now.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay. Mm-hmm. a lot well we're much more than 100 feet from it right now yeah okay and if we just had mics on the swamp you know right now yeah yeah hearing all the gurgling and the bubbling and the splooshing the mics are like we have to be so far away we're like we're negotiating ourselves farther away from the swamp yeah i don't know like how we're gonna get the the i mean just sounds i would love to get something like just the effect of like big lot and like rising out of it I do think we need we don't have a big lot and still Jason is kind of like that seems like that's I don't think we should jump ship on that one yeah the thing that I even feel like is's dangerous. We can't even shut up. Part of this is I feel like Clea and I are here telling you guys how it can be done.

And you're giving me a lot of why it can't be done. And I'm wondering, I guess, are you committed, Clea, to doing this project with these guys? Because there are other podcasts, other podcast networks. Yeah. Other people podcasting who would like love to figure out the problems, not just establish them for you and let you flail around in the solution. I would love that. I haven't been invited on any other podcasts.

Got it. So it's not for lack of desire. On my part, it's lack of interest in in interesting i think the uh covid test uh went a little too high up on this guy he's got some bad ideas you know uh you don't want to you don't want to listen to any of that you know uh us identifying problems is a is a huge feature of working with us. We see the issue before it becomes an issue. Right.

And we iron it out. Is it a pleasant process? Is it nice to spend time with us? Absolutely not. But that's not what the work is about. And that's what they keep telling me. And that's why I'm still here. It's tough.

It's tough. You know, because I'm like, I'm here. Like, I want to roll up my sleeves and get my hands dirty on making this. And even like the reality of like, oh, it's not a pool anymore. It's a swamp. That is negative. But I'm trying to see it only as a positive. And it's an opportunity, an opportunity to tell a swamp story rather than a pool story.

And guess what? More people listening to podcasts right now have headphones on and are sitting next to a swamp than are sitting next to a pool. And we need to be making podcasts for the swamp people, not the pool people. That's why we're pencils down, because it's too many pools. I'm tired of putting more pools in Ted Sarandos' backyard. The guy's got nine pools.

The pool peoples are the one that shut down this industry because they don't want to pay the swamp people enough to keep the swamp nice to pay the swamp people enough to keep the swamp nice pay the swamp people we're just looking for two percent for the swamp people from the one percent pool people that's beautiful wow wow um well i do think we should have kevin make the swamp noise of bin laden emerging uh from now we should have them do i think we should have them do it just to see if we actually do need to go there i love what you said about a long form narrative podcast and just hearing long made me think like god we could make this so

fucking long right absolutely like we could do it forever. Like, why? 500 episodes at least, which seemingly is forever. Yeah, 500 episodes. If every episode is Big Laden giving a present to a different father, that is like millions. To a dad for a father. That's millions of episodes. Yeah. You do like a quantum leap style

like a touch by type thing where like each one is a story Big Lottie could go back and give gifts to dads throughout history yes it's episodic yes it's serialized yes yes yes yes yes like everything is coming together

like that's so fucking epic guys we've got to hear kevin make this sound we got to kevin and i think the other thing that is i feel like because it's such a fixture of all all great podcasts is you're gonna need a theme song we're gonna need a theme song for this show you know or this i guess it's a show, you know, something that really gets at all of these salient points so that the audience knows exactly what they're about to watch going forward, right?

This is why you get Jason. And I love that. Yes. And are you angling to write it? No, I'm not the music person. I think, though, somebody in this fandom, somebody certainly is going to send this to you.

Yeah. The swamp I'm just reading is salient as well. Oh, good, good. And it's pointy. As long as it's not scenty, that would be great. I think it's just,

yeah, it's packed with salience. So whenever you want to make the sound, Kevin, we're rolling. It's a theme sound. Yeah, theme sound. So if we could get the theme sound.

And it's one of those things, too. When you hear it, you're like, I know I'm about to hear my favorite thing. Yeah. And also just like what he says. It's Pavlovian. Yeah. It's Pavlovian. It's Pavlovian.

Yes, yes. You begin drooling for your podcast dinner. Pavlov's dog. It's Pavlov's dog. It's Pavlov loves dog. It's Puv loves dog. It's Puv loves dog. And what he says, of course, like his big line when he comes out of the swamp. Okay, Kevin, we've stalled enough. Do you have the sound? Yeah.

Oh, my. Okay. That's the sound of Big Laden. He just kind of slips out of the swamp very silently and pretty quickly. He sounds so quiet and mellow, too. Can we get just a little sound? He's very big. He's like at least 7'1".

And I think it's brave to not do the accent. Thank you. Oh, my. Is it too sensual? i'm getting a little can we do it with maybe like 10 percent it's for dad this is a director yeah oh my that felt like you said ow yeah yeah and I'm anticipating ow my what. So I think that's confusing. It's going to start everybody off. That's a good note.

Like I'm. Oh my my. There's a little bit of southern flair there. We have to stop. It's not quite. We have to stop. We have to stop. Bye.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Bye. Bye.