Hollywood Handbook - Dave King, Steve Hely, and Kevin Etten, Our Close Friends

Episode Date: November 10, 2014

Hayes and Sean start the show by critiquing segment theme song submissions from fans. Then, on the first Hollywood Handbook writer's panel, DAVE KING, STEVE HELY, and KEVIN ETTEN join the boys to talk about TV writing, real writing, the creative process, conflict, and alt and main jokes. Then, the Popcorn Gallery is back to ask the panel about their A/V Club GPAs, cams, and the writer's room boys club.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is a HeadGum Podcast. Hmm. He's like, yeah, I did. I was like, that's kind of funny, right? Because of your whole thing. Roger Rabbit had to fight a bunch of weasels, and Damien got bit by a weasel on his foot. Yeah, on his... Speaking of which, I'm kind of probably going to sound a little off this show. Because, as it turns out, and if Entity Cody could get a picture of this, my feets is haunted. And my feets is actually haunted.

I'll have to keep from being upset in this case, actually. Is the camera supposed to be out of the room? Wait, is it supposed to be in the room or out of the room? Are we supposed to get up and go out of the room and go get the camera, or is it just supposed to be in the room already? That's nice. So when Mebra was dressing me this morning, she got very scared.

Well, we should say you're wearing socks with spirits on them haunted spirits and these when i went to bed last night was normal black socks and when she put them on my feet initially they was normal black socks oh and then what she told me is that because my feets is haunted and has so much supernatural energies. It transforms fabric. Transforms the sock. But what a satisfying feeling it must be to be stomping on ghosts and spirits all day. Yes. And I know that they can't hurt me, but it's still very scary to see them.

Yes, and I know that they can't hurt me, but it's still very scary to see them. And I'm going to psychic later today, and I will perform exorcism on my feet, and I will stomp around in the holy water at the church, and everything's going to be okay. Don't worry about me. I'm going right from here to do that. We have to move a little quickly today, actually. We're a little off schedule. There was somebody recording in here before us and jensen carp i don't know if that's a real if that's like a

character like a fish joke right or like um if that's a if that's a real guy um but he didn't know that he was supposed to get out of the studio at a certain time uh because nobody had told him. Oh, well, is that his fault? I mean, does he keep track of the entire schedule? Or, I mean, who would be with him that would even know? It doesn't seem like it would be him. It seems like he would just be in charge of, you know, he wants to come in and do a good show. If there were somebody in here with him, sort of an emissary who was even recording our

show. You know what's occurring to me now? Is engineer Cody is that person. He could have said, hey, you really got to be out of here by the time that the other guys need to come in. Then they would have known because Jensen made a comment to me that was so interesting. When he was walking out of the studio, he said, I'm so sorry. We didn't know there was someone else coming in.

And then normally I would assume that Engineer Cody didn't know we were here. But in this case, I actually, I think back to what actually happened during the record. We recreate the, yes. And just retracing my steps, I remember, I think actually seeing Engineer Cody. Ah, yes. Fleeing the studio during Jensen Carver's recording. Yes, he left the studio three or four times. As he will do.

True to form. Yes, when I saw him outside milling around the kitchen, I said, Oh, they must be recording a show in there. Because that's where he likes to be. And then locking eyes with us and then disappearing back into the studio for another 15, 20 minutes. And I guess at that time I thought,

maybe he's going in to tell them that we're out here. But again, that comment from Jensen is the thing that just sticks with me. I can't get over it. So we have to move, you know. So we'll be talking very fast, so why don't you do the exciting intro. We've gotten, oh, yes.

Welcome to Hollywood Handbook, an insider's guide to kicking butt and dropping names in the red carpet lined back hallways of this industry we call showbiz. What up, what up? Today what we're doing is we received a number of theme song submissions. We requested a few weeks ago. The show was feeling a little... Still. Yes. There's something music can do. We requested a few weeks ago. The show was feeling a little... Still! Yes.

There's something music can do. You know, it has these effects. Some of these segments have an internal energy to them that's very powerful, but there's no way to transition. You need to approach them with the right mindset, and that's what music can do is affect minds. And so we haven't heard the songs. We thought we would play the songs

and then go through the process of the critique and we can pass it back to the listeners who made them and throw it back to us. Yes, maybe, yes. We go back and forth on this for as long as it takes. And that's the process. Pass notes, pass notes. The ugly business of the critique.

It doesn't have to be ugly. No. The end result should actually. I hope I'm pleasantly surprised by some really good music. But from what I've heard, and music actually, if anybody knows anything about brain science and musical science, is it's lighting up pieces of your brain. And so you want to light up the right pieces. musical science is it's lighting up pieces of your brain.

And so you want to light up the right pieces. And I think the parts that they were lighting up a lot for me and the ones that I heard is the parts that say, hmm, this isn't very good. But you want to light up the other side. This first song, this first theme is for the Teaser Freezer. It's from Matt Bogdanao. I think that's how you pronounce it he is a drummer he's a professional drummer um and so i don't know if this is all if this is going to be just a drum thing that doesn't sound like that would be very good to me but we'll

listen to it and we'll see if maybe he experimented with some other stuff It's so cold. It's so cold. It's so cold. It's so cold in the teaser freezer. It's so cold. It's so fucking cold in the teaser freezer. Two notes. Right off the bat. It sounds like maybe the Crypt Keeper is speaking in the very beginning. Somebody with scary voice and who is maybe scared themselves,

but that's no reason to drag me into this. maybe scared themselves, but that's no reason to drag me into this. I would just say keep the Crypt Keeper as far away from this process as possible. Here's a great way to look at how do I make a good song for what this is. What is the teaser freezer? And for me, I would say it's educational, it's laughs, it's funniness, it's great, it's fun, it's fast, It's funniness. It's great. It's fun. It's fast. It's funny.

It has good parts. It has good parts. It's good. We love it. It's smart. It's smart. It's for thinking. It's for learning.

And it's for having fun with your friends laughing. It's nice. Did you say it's nice? It's nice. It's nice. Did you say it's nice? It's nice. It's cool. And you did touch on that a little bit with how cold it is in the freezer. So you were in the neighborhood of that element, but that's only one of the things I said.

A lot of what the other stuff I said was about how it is nice and it's cool and it's funny and it's smart. So you want your song to have those same elements. No cussing is my other note. I could do without the language, yes. That limits the distribution of the song significantly. I always think, could Sean play this for his daughter who's only 10 days old and not be worried that maybe her first word is going

to be like something like an F word, which by the way, you can get arrested for if your kid is saying that. And I also would say I expected some drums and a nice little drum line at the beginning, like from the movie or like a big marching band or something like that would have been nice just to like some little extra fanfare instead of all the sort of ethereal spookiness. Well, if you saw Birdman, they're playing drums in that. So let's move on. So Matt can, you know.

Back to the drawing board and try to make. Go over the notes and. Yeah. Make the next pass a little more what we're describing where you really have a feel for what the segment will be this one is from

I believe he's Charlie Murphy Brown on the forums he's created a good popcorn gallery theme for us in the past

where it talks about popcorn chicken and popcorn shrimp and this is one for Gmail Roulette our famous segment. Okay. I'm Kay. Let me say, can I go?

You want to think about what the actual Gmail roulette segment is, which is it's, I think we're very vulnerable in it. It's very revealing. It's very smart and we're laughing a lot. So funny smartness would really set the listener up for what they're going to hear as well as a little more vulnerability, which I think he touched on slightly because he is hoping that the wheel lands somewhere that helps him, which I think that too.

But when he says, does he say Gmail crew-let or coo-let? At some point he does. I believe he says coo-let. Okay. That's when he loses me for good. Just from a composition perspective, just thinking about how it's put together, I want you to think about, Charlie,

I want you to think about fifths. Fifths are sort of, that's the sort of central vibration of a lot of the music you hear. Like, Help Me Rhonda. It's the loop of fifths. Yes, Help Me Rhonda does it. Dream On. Like, it's fifths.

It's the, ba, ba, ba. Like the, uh. Wait till I get my money right. Yes. So, yes, that's sort of what's going on with it. And one thing is, just an easy thing to remember about fifths. So, if you're looking at piano, C scale, that's all white notes. And if you go up one, you're going to add one black note.

That's one sharp. If you go up another one, you're going to have two sharps. And it's always going to be the same basic. And if you go down, you're going to add a flat. And so, what you want to do is do the fifths right and i will say he does the jjjjj which is sort of a 50 cent thing and if he were ever to hear that he would be very upset and he's a very he's one of the toughest people in the world yes and he's one of the he's one of actually only six people in Hollywood that I don't want to get punched by. You would never want to mess with him, and he's basically unkillable, and he's wearing a bulletproof vest almost all the time.

So please take that out. He would just be so mad. If it was ever associated with us, I shudder to think. First of all, I have to shoot at his head because he's got that vest on. But he has those metal teeth. It just goes ping, ping. Oh, yes. No, he'd been shot in the face before. This is a new Gmail roulette theme, and this is from Dorky But Cool. Gmail roulette

Gmail roulette Okay Well let's take a step back from this And just ask yourself a simple question How do I feel when Gmail roulette's happening? Yes. That's a great all-purpose note for all these people. Yes.

Yes. There's a feeling of anticipation when it's coming on, eagerness, mind openness, and then as you're experiencing it happy niceness if you think about a song like sloop john b what they're using is they're using fifths and and that's allowing the music to sound very good yes think about that song, how it goes like the... Right? Right? Right. And so just play that. Wait till I get my money right.

You know? It's all building to that. This, the Gmail roulette that got screamed, almost seemed like an afterthought to the music you're playing. And it sounded like it was somebody on the phone and I do not like the idea of answering the phone and hearing a loud screamy. Well,

I just hate all this. We're all staring at a glowing rectangle all day. Here are, we'll do, these are three themes from Think of the Children. The first one is for That's Wheelie Interesting. Wheelie Interesting. Wheelie Interesting.

Wheel, Wheel, Wheelie Interesting. Wheelie Interesting. Wheelie Interesting. Wheelie Interesting. Wheelie Interesting. I feel sarcastic. It does. That's not music to me is my biggest criticism of it.

I like the theme to be. It's a mood, and I'm afraid that this person's on drugs. And I don't mean to accuse some of that, and we've all experimented. I know that Hayes took a hit off a joint when he was hanging out with Leonard Skinner, who actually do use fifths. Skinner is a great guy to go back and listen to and think about the idea of fifths and how he does the... And he just hits a...

Then you can't tell me nothing right. On his main song. Mm-hmm. Just go back. It should be music. But we did do hash. Let's listen to his Te've asked before, but it's different too. When we are doing a teaser freezer, and you're hearing that, are we being

robots? If no, then the song shouldn't be a robot bullying me. It's a confusion, I think, of the freezer being machinery and living machinery is robots. Yes.

That's a pass. But if you've been in the freezer, it actually is not a robot. And here's his Gmail roulette theme. This is Think of the Children. Think of the Children. Get help. I will say the lyrics are right. It sets you up for exactly the right thing, which is hearing an email from sometimes a celebrity.

The voice is horrific, and I wish you would just get a nice – get someone like a Karen Carpenter type to sing a nice – it should be a nice song. Yes. And if you think about songs like Love Fool by the Cardigans, what they're using is a pretty simple formula. And it just follows fifths. And in order to do that, all they did was they sat at a piano. They said, well, C scale is all white keys.

You go up one, you add one black key. That's on sharp. You go up one more. And then that scale becomes so if you're in an E scale, you're going to have two. And you can tell because of the way it sounds good when you do it right. So we got a very special episode. Yeah, so this is our first writers panel, and we have some very skilled and experienced writers,

and they're going to come and they're going to teach you some of the secrets of the writers' room that actually have never been heard before, and that's coming right up on Hollywood Handbook. So I'm with S. Patha Murgerson at her housewarming. She has kind of like a new Spanish crash and I'm kind of on speedster. Yeah.

And it's getting kind of late. And so I say, I got to head out. And she's like, no, you're not going anywhere. And I'm like, what? It's late. I have to leave. And her eyes start kind of like glowing red. And then I hear like, time's up.

And I was in an Oculus Rift. and you forget when you're in it you actually it's it's so immersive you don't know that it's actually a virtual experience yes and well that's why I won't put anything in front of my eyes because I'm so scared of getting tricked welcome back to Hollywood Handbook this is actually a really exciting episode for us this is the first time we've ever done what we want to call the writer's panel. And what it is,

the writer's room is something that so far has always been really shrouded in mystery. It's not something that people really talk about. No one has ever tried to take a look inside the writer's room. It just sort of exists in this kind of dark cave somewhere. And you see they go into the room and they come out with a funny TV show or a scary TV show.

Or an idea for one and the actors do a lot of it. But then what is that magical process that happens in between? And lots of people don't like to talk about it, but today we have three great guests who are going to tell us some stories and maybe a few secrets and maybe help you get in the room yourself. This is a little like, and we're a little like the masked magician who revealed some of the tricks. Aren't we all a little like masked magicians, gentlemen?

Well, let's introduce everyone. Starting from my left, Dave King. Hey. You know him from Frank TV, Last Call with Carson Daly Parks and Recreation Yeah And Shipmates Tell us about Shipmates Briefly

Shipmates was a It's a reality television show Where they put two It was like Blind Date on a cruise ship And I would write the funny The thoughts No The secret thought bubbles

That was a misconception. That was more a blind dates thing. We did just kind of funny icons and lower thirds we'd call them. And I would just

kind of hack away at those. Is this like stink lines or something? I'm just trying to picture an example. It wasn't that base. You know,

we were a little more high-profile than that I'd like to think. It wasn't that far from We were a little more high-brow than that, I'd like to think. It wasn't that far from that either. We'd like to give the people on the dates a little character. We'd say, this guy's a computer nerd, and then we'd play with that sort of motif. We'd give them a computer graphic and a ding-toink,

kind of like little funny sound effects and that kind of thing. Yes. kind of like little funny sound effects and that kind of thing. Yes. Continuing around the table, we're going to skip over Sean to Steve Healy. Hey, I got skipped. No, it's okay. Steve is here.

Hi, guys. Thanks for having me. Steve, boy, what a list of credits. Animal Practice. My Name Is. What? My Name Is Earl. I wasn't on that show But you've seen it

I watched it For a minute, right? I've watched it Didn't you do a cup of coffee on there? Well, I told I would often give Volley, Chandra Sekharan A lot of his ideas He would come to me

You know, I have to pitch a story tomorrow Help me, what happens? I'd be like, okay, it's no problem Oh, God, I'm sorry This is what is happening for me they may have given me a credit for that i don't know yeah so you were on 30 rock 30 rock and the office office american dad american dad last call we worked at last call last call carson daly and i know we're gonna hear some stories about that i'm sure late show david

letterman wait i what do you do with a Carson Daly? I mean, so much of it seems like you just wind him up and watch him go. Are you giving him areas to play in, or are you literally just trying to put up? It's almost like are you penning him in? I would imagine you'd have to build fences for him. Yes, that's exactly, yes. Building the sandbox.

That's how I thought of it. And sort of dust busting it up afterwards. I think there's a lot of that. Cleaning up the hurricane. Well, he's such a whirling dervish of comedy that I do wonder. A Taz type. Yes, yes. It's like the Tasmanian Devil cartoon.

Have you seen this? Most of my writing was for Dave King, who was one of the, he was sort of the uncredited co-star of the show. He would play, I remember he played the Hamburglar. He played Jesus Christ. Easter Bunny. The Easter Bunny. All the classic late night staples. Yeah. It was kind of your show of shows of art for art 2.0. And what's that?

It was Sid Caesar had this show and all the great writers were on it, like Ernest Hemingway and Woody Allen and Neil Simon and, I don't know, Framley Boits or somebody. Kurt Vonnegut. Kurt Vonnegut. Oh, well, let's – James Baldwin. I guess we –

Jeff Chaucer. We'll just keep moving on. Jeff Chaucer did a cup of coffee on your show. Someone's getting impatient. David, let's talk to Kevin. Dave, it's my time. Kevin Ed is here. What's up?

Desperate Housewives. Ed. Ed. Ed. And now Workaholics. Workaholics. Where you spent some time with Sean. Yeah, kind of in a mentor position Oh, I thought you looked familiar

Yep Oh, there he is Tom Cavanaugh, what's the deal there? Just a quick The best Yeah? The best Is he

It's like, you've seen Love Monkey Yes, yes I mean, cut short way before its time. Mm-hmm. But he's the same kind of a Carson Daly figure where you just wind him up, let him go, see what happens. Mm-hmm. You're just throwing stuff at him. He's going.

No, I never was on set with Tom. The editing must be difficult. The editing was difficult. Just seeing. Which hilarious riff do I want from Tom in this scene how long can we possibly let this go we have to have commercials for the show

that's where the show was made you wrote it in the edit bay absolutely we talk about story monsters and joke beasts and how everyone has sort of a different persona that they're coming in with in a writer's room. You're all sort of characters yourselves, just like there are characters on the show.

What would you each consider your role to be in your writer's room? And I'll put it a different way. What's your superpower? That's clever. You want me to start? Dave King. I like to you know, it feels

almost selfish or arrogant to say that I'm a story beast. But frankly, I don't have time for joke monsters. And I just feel like, or story call it whatever you want, story monster, joke beast, I don't care what the words are. You're either a story guy or a joke guy.

And to me, the show is the story. The story is the show. And anyone can write the jokes. And if you don't have the story, if you don't have the balls to write a story, if you don't have the goods, then frankly, what the hell are you doing there? So at the end of the day, it might be funny. It is cowards and pussies that won't write a story. Isn't that right? I don't want to call them out. I don't want to make the other side look bad.

I'm just saying, quite frankly, either tell the story or get the fuck out of the kitchen. Pardon my French. It does take a certain masculinity though to hue a story out of just a handsome oak.

You know what it is? You can't be afraid. Mm-hmm. You know? You can't be afraid and you can't be shy. And if you want to call that a Y chromosome, go ahead. I'm not the first to say it. And when you bring up masculine energy, I think we should point out that we're doing a writer's panel and it is mostly

mostly white men. And I won't be surprised when we catch shit for that. Right. But should we talk about it? Why didn't any women sort of earn their way onto this panel?

It is an interesting question. Yes. If is an interesting question. Yes. If I had to just take a wild guess, and this is literally, I'm not a scientist, I don't know anything, but I would assume that it would be something to do with periods. Yeah. And this is not to make any judgment.

And look, I happen to be fortunate I don't have to have my period all the time How often do you have it? Okay I thought you said you were a story guy I thought you said you were a story guy Why did you hit me with a joke? I'm allowed to have some fun, what can I say?

Steve, is there a difference Between a joke monster And a sort of bit machine? Are we just going to talk about television? Because actually I'm a writer writer. Right. TV is like my day job. These guys are just TV guys.

Right. But I've written books. And isn't that sort of what you bring to a TV writer's room, though, is your handle of prose? Well, actually, I mean, I think what I bring is, like, I'm there in the room, and the other writers feel shame, as they should. Because they're like, here's a real writer. So they're stepping up their game to be like, am I – It's a great motivator. How do I get to this guy's level?

How do I please him? I'm like a disapproving dad in the room. And I bring that energy and it makes everyone turn it up a bit. I mean, I think that's why shows keep hiring me and hiring me and hiring me. Daddy, just for the audience, what are some of the things you've written that is real things?

Well, I wrote a book called How I Became a Famous Novelist. It won the James Thurber Prize. Everyone, your listeners probably know that. And that's the guy who drew about dogs. Yeah. He's one of the greatest American humorists of all time. Yes, very funny dogs. If you want to laugh, turn off your TV and get out of a book.

Look at some dog drawings. Some of the most hilarious, floppier dogs you'll ever see in your life. I promise you that. You know what? As far as I'm concerned, him and Billy Wegman are our two greatest American humorists. If you want to laugh, pick up Thurber. I say that. At least once a day to someone who's

depressed or they're sick or they got bad news. And so you would call yourself sort of a book machine. I'd call myself a writer. I don't know what Dave and Kevin, I guess script guy, script TV maker. You're playing around. We call ourselves screenwriters.

Yes, Kevin, what would you call yourself? There's a word for you, isn't there? I'd call myself a doula. Please expand on that for me. Because I'm giving birth to ideas. I'm a vessel through which, you know, stories, jokes, they appear, they come out. I'm just, I'm, you know, they're not, it's not me thinking of them. Well, and the idea's in there, isn't it?

The idea's in there gestating. It is. But who's going to coax it? Right. You know? And so I... Come on. You don't want it to just fall on the floor.

Exactly. Somebody's got to be there to catch that baby. And towels and everything. Exactly. Yes. Did you see that Mulaney? I have not seen an episode of Mulaney. I don't want to...

Don't ruin it. I don't want to do the whole thing. Please don't ruin it. I saw that Mulaney actually in the circumstances, I saw the sound was off. But I saw that the black guy on Mulaney, he was pushing an air conditioner into the room. And it was like he was giving birth to, they were like, push, push. I think I was having to do my own words. Were you walking outside of a store? No, I was in a hotel and I didn't know how to,

I didn't feel like turning the sound on. Sounded like you were about to say you didn't know how. Well, I think I made the decision. It took a quick turn to say that you chose not to do it. It's hard to decide sometimes whether something's a decision or it's just, you know, circumstance. I try and live in this way where, you know, the two things blend. It's interesting. Sometimes writers who are so brainy then don't know how to do a simple thing like turn the

volume on on a television. Or what's another example? Yeah, you know, yeah, you laugh, but it's true. You know, we get so stuck in our heads and everything becomes so cerebral. Yes. Sometimes I catch yourself, my car's in neutral. I forgot to put the car in drive. Or I left something at home.

I hit a person with my car. I hit a person. Okay, you're exaggerating to prove a point, and it's funny, but we could go on. But, yeah, sometimes you forget the simple things when all day long you're trying to just create this story that holds together, that feels right, that satisfies people. It's tough.

Dave. Yeah. Could you just take us through the beats? And we can all jump in, but just take us through the beats and we can all jump in, but just like the, just the, take us through the beats of like the story archetype. The story archetype. I mean, this is the, this is it, right? I mean, this is the thing. Right. Yeah. Well, look, obviously, you know, read your Campbell, read your McKee, and then you can get in the room. And then let's talk.

So I feel like it's a little weird to even have a one-sided thing here where I'm going to talk about how I would go about it because it sort of assumes that the listener is coming to the table, quite frankly, and not to sound like a jerk, but he's coming to the table with the same amount of preparation that I have. But what we found with this show is it's fun for them to pretend that they understand what we're talking about when we talk about TV movies, stories, writing, and pictures of dogs. So that is very refreshing. dogs. So that is very refreshing. And if I could throw to you, Kevin, and you can talk a little bit about conflict in story, which I know is something you're always hammering in the room is it can't just be, you know, that the guy wants to meet a doula. It also has to be, he's scared of, he's scared of seeing a woman's lower half. Right, absolutely. You know, there's no drama without conflict.

We say that every day. I say that to you every day. I say that to your writing partner, Dom, every day. And it can be frustrating. And, I mean, half the conflict is, for me in the room, you guys are just bits, bits, bits, bits, bits. Right? We do 15 pages of bits. Oh, it would drive me crazy.

And then we get the story started. It's like, how about we kick the story off on page three? Okay, you know? It's like we don't need to see... Not enough room for bits. 14 pages of fart jokes and dick jokes. We've done it. We want people want stories.

They tune in to these television programs to see the six, seven stories that have been told since the beginning of time. And yes, that's how many stories there are. And it does remind me when you talk about the kind of jokes, have we done anything where somebody farts on a dick?

That's a good idea. I think that's coming up. I feel like I saw an alt for that. Tune in. Tune in. Stay tuned. Steve, what's your favorite show you've ever worked on? As a viewer?

Oh, man, it would be such a luxury to just watch my shows and not have to be responsible for them. I'd say it would have to be American Dad. I think the character of Roger is one of the greatest characters certainly in television. He's an androgynous alien and he wears costumes and has adventures.

I have a sticker of him. He invests himself really emotionally in a lot of different scenarios. It's just fun. He's a Loki. A coyote figure. It is interesting that you don't see that many people in disguise on TV anymore It's just fun. He's a Loki. Yes. A coyote figure. That sounds fun. It is interesting that you don't see that many people in disguise on TV anymore except for him.

It's true. Yeah, he gets away with a lot of disguises. You can do that in a cartoon. You have that freedom. Yeah, and if you recall some like it hot, disguises used to be a huge piece of comedy, and it's sort of fallen by the wayside with the CGI and all the electronic dinosaurs and things. We no longer just think about, what if a person had on a fake beard? If you want to laugh, get something like that.

It all goes back to something like that. Do we talk about the influence of Billy? Can we just talk about that? Not Billy Wegman, but yes, let's get wild. Let's get wild. Yes's get wild, guys. Let's get wild. Yes, and there's a Wilder before Van Wilder, and it was Billy. And they're both funny, but in different ways.

So one thing that really struck a chord with me, Stephen, that you said, is the idea of what a luxury it would be to watch a television show just as a viewer. And do you find that you can't turn off your writer's brain and that when you see a TV show on, guys, and you can all answer at the same time, that you are just sort of

taking it apart and thinking about the construction of it rather than letting it wash over you? Totally. I was watching Parkland. I can't laugh. I don't laugh at all. I rewrite. I rewrite. I rewrite. It's all about editing. Editing in my head constantly. What was that?

What was the original line there? How can I get to a place where my brain feels like it's not working all the time? No, I sort of like what Steve is doing. I hate watching comedy on TV. Steve is letting the others wear themselves out. I hate watching comedy. If I want to relax, put on a documentary. It's not watching.

It's writing. Netflix, emotional documentaries, see you later. If I'm watching a Parks, I'm sitting there. Last thing I want to watch is a half hour of comedy. Damn it, I have to watch a fucking new girl? Joke, joke, joke. I get it, I've seen it, I've heard it. That's the best you could do there, guys?

That's all you got? How about we try that one again? I'm not a fan of those things, but it's not. That's such a first thought. It's not a resonated mindator because that bell has been ringing all day long. Funny, funny, funny, is this the funniest we can do? Give me your Breaking Bands.

That's on the bottom of my Statue of Liberty. Give me your Breaking Bands, your Sopranos. That's what I want to watch when I go home. Let Steve talk. I'm sorry, you wanted to... No? I thought we were supposed to all speak at the same time. Well, now I'm worried that something's wrong with Steve, and so I just want to check in with him

to make sure that he's doing okay physically. These guys are chatterboxes. That's how they make their bones. They go into their room, and they keep the chatter going. And people like that. You need that sort of stimulation. To be fair, we're on a podcast. It isn't chatter, though.

It is writer. Here's our conflict, I guess. Yeah. Do you find, like, When you're watching a show And you have a lot of thoughts And you write them down Do you ever send them To the showrunner

You know Hey Liz A couple thoughts about Last night's new girl You could have done this or that Hey Mike Watching Parks I think you made some missteps

Let me help you Set the course back I'll send them like ADR stuff So for future Like syndication Right Episodes

Right You know DVD stuff Yeah all the time I tend to use back channels i find it's more diplomatic the showrunner is so much on his plate and i think i hope the listener is educated enough to know what a showrunner is that i want to explain it but i feel like the showrunner is so much on his plate that sometimes it's easier to go to the story editor the ese or the co-p and and and slide it as someone who you know maybe on a more i'll go right to the story editor, the ESE or the co-P, and slide it at someone who you know maybe on a more... I'll go right to the studio. Yeah, sometimes that's easier, too, is just

hey, Sony... Hey, Kevin Reilly. Here's an idea for a new girl ADR. For, you know, season three DVD, just maybe slide this. You're on Lemoore's back for this shot, and you could slide in a quick thing, get them in the studio.

They love that. Get a single. Yeah, well, I'll let the air out of their tires, and then when they go to get their jack, they realize that I've written a new script and hidden it where their spare tire used to be. Now, and that's a crazy thing to say. Go ahead.

What were you going to say, Kevin? I was just going to say, can we talk about kind of the saddest part of our job? How about waking up in the morning? Because we talked about giving birth. Have we talked about killing babies? So much of what we do is killing babies. Killing the darlings. Surgeons. Yes, and surgeons have to kill babies.

And they don't talk about this. Absolutely, abortion doctors. Where's that episode of Grey's Anatomy where they have to kill a bunch of the babies? They chop them up, yeah. In order to make room, in order to make time, basically. In order to make their page count. And we mourn them every day. You know, you guys sit in that room and write alts.

And then you watch the show and you don't see them on there. And you go, a little part of you dies. I know it does. And that's true for all of us. You see in my office, there's little popsicle stick graves all over. And those are for the babies that have died, which is like the kind of jokes that I, maybe I said. Did you say alts?

I'm sorry. Alts, yes. Alternative jokes. Did you not? Are you not familiar with that term? No, no, no, no, no. I know alts. Okay.

But it's just like to hear you talk about it, Sean. You say you spend all day writing the main jokes. But at the same time, is one joke ever enough? And so, yeah, I'll have a backup plan. Pull the ripcord. He can't hit this joke the way I wrote it. Oh, okay. That makes sense.

I have some alts, and I'm at Monitor, giving the goods. You're at Monitor sometimes? It just surprises me that Kevin would authorize you to be at Monitor. Well, for some of the other cubicle stuff, I feel like I was at Monitor. Sure, for the web stuff, that's fine. Yeah, web content. Whoa! I could see that.

Wait. Web stuff? Models are changing, Hayes. You said you were doing stuff that was going to be on TV. You said you were at Monitor for TV stuff. It's both. It's for the web, but they also inexplicably play it in the first commercial break, so you can't really tell whether the show is ended or whether this is part of the episode.

Hey, let me stick up for Sean here. A whore doesn't care who she fucks. Right? Thank you for having my back on this. It's true. Well, and I'd like to defend him too. I gotta say sometimes, you know, you talk about writing alts, but you know, sometimes the alt

becomes the main. Kevin, as a showrunner, when you hear a joke, do you think you can usually tell whether it's an alt or a main? Absolutely. Like there's just a ring to it you think you can usually tell whether it's an alt or a main? Absolutely. Like there's just a ring to it or something. Immediately, you get it. You go, bam, main, alt. Let's talk about the pressures of being a showrunner.

We have a showrunner right here in the room in Kevin. There must be some temptation involved in that, just with having a whole staff of people that are just sort of under your control. Yes, absolutely. Every day, it's your manager. Yes, absolutely. Every day. It's your manager as much as you are a creator. You're wearing eight different hats. The temptation is to, you know, take some of the stresses from the home life and bring them into the work life. And just, you know, if I'm having a bad day with my wife with my cats

whatever I come in I want to so much I just want to bring that into Sean and scream at his face for what is this story that doesn't make sense and it does and it does make sense and it's we're on page 15 and nothing has happened and you've got

fart joke dick joke stuff is happening it's funny stuff is happening. And people can't see right now, but the veins in Kevin's head are just popping. I've never seen him like this. I mean, it's Saturday. We've been working all week, and I know this podcast means a lot to him. He's got one more year on his contract, so it's like what happens in a couple months. I know.

So I know this is a big thing. You're trying to monetize it. You guys have some advertisers now. Quality slick. Yeah, it's a listener's website. Oh, it's time for the Popcorn Gallery. We got a lot of questions from our listeners. I was very surprised by that song.

So the Popcorn Gallery, this normally we're not talking about TV. We're talking about movies. And Kevin, I know, has some good movie ideas. And I bet that Dave King might too. Steven, I don't really know. He seems to not really get what we're even doing. Am I wrong? It seemed like he doesn't

get what we're doing. Oh, maybe you could tell me. What are we doing? Well, we were trying to do a podcast about writer's rooms. Is it not going as you planned? Uh... Two-thirds of it are? What would you say is missing

don't let me get you off track if you need to do popcorn gallery or whatever no no no we can always edit it out do you know what's happening missing conflict okay and this turned out to be an object lesson And so, Scoop Troop, get out your pencils and just write down the exchange we had And maybe that winds up in a movie one day So, Popcorn Gallery, questions from the listeners We have a question inside the popcorn bag Ooh, it's the main character. What?

This is a question from BRGRHF, Burger Ho. Guys, if you could talk about your AV Club GPAs. Is it on your resume? Is it something that you kind of compare with each other? Can I tell you one thing that drives me crazy? It's such a good question. Is why don't they have your AV Club GPA on your Wikipedia pages? Why is that not at the top?

Why isn't that right next to our names? Well, I'll tell you, when you're hiring writers, I've been doing it for a couple years now, When you're hiring writers, I've been doing it for a couple years now, and that was for sure one of the biggest mistakes early on was not. That's question number one. Yes, because you used to not have to show it. Right. No, and I need to know straight away.

I actually want to know. I mean, we screen out so many people based on that. I don't read scripts anymore. I mean, I read after. What's your cutoff, B plus? B? B. B plus. But this is crazy to me.

And I might have to have a talk with William Morris Endeavor, but I assume that my representation, when my name is out there for jobs, that the first thing they mention is my AB club GPA, because quite frankly, I'm proud of it. What is yours? Right now, it's a... Yeah, where are you is yours right now well numerically it's a 92 and not to brag but that's just what it is yeah no that's not a brag at all thank you but I wonder about some of these grades I wish there were sort of a weighting system because it were is it like yes a Vanderwerf B plus right is it a Scott Tobias B-plus? No, it's so true. Either way, I still think they're all the same.

I mean, they are all equally valid. So you can't differentiate based on those guys because they are AV Club. They're an AV Club writer. They didn't just stumble into it. Right, they're not just some fucking guy working in a movie store. The AV Club has vetted these people.

That's right. They've gone through courses. No, don't fucking question the AV club guys' ability to create television and how much we react to it and change shit based on it because we do. I look at it this way. I'm a little more, I guess, realist about it. It's not, I say this, it's not a perfect system. But it's a damn good system.

And you're kidding yourself if you think that there's a better system. It's like the Nielsen ratings. Are there flaws? Maybe. But it's damn good. No, it's the SATs, man. Thank you. It's the gold standard.

Like, just shut up and tell me your number. Right. It's Myers-Briggs. a gold standard. Like, why? Just shut up and tell me your number. Right. Yeah. It's Myers-Briggs. And we are feeling around in the dark here. And so the AV Club has given us something of a lantern to say, to guide us, move in this direction. We didn't like this, but you could do better.

Are you guys concerned about the culture of critical superstars like Nussbaum you dropped the bomb it was gonna come up yes enough already yes I know I personally don't get it thank you for the points Kevin and that is and that has made its way into every writer's room, as you are getting points all the time. Is there any show more influential than At Midnight in the past 50 years? MASH, maybe MASH, At Midnight. The whole Nussbaum hysteria, I personally don't get it. I've been worried about it.

Yes. It does feel like, what does it mean where, like, Alessandra Stanley can operate in virtual anonymity and where... Isn't that funny? Right? Yeah. It's just weird to me. I wish I understood it because I feel like I'd be better at my job if I did.

Well, you know, look, I look at it this way. The Beatles were incredibly popular. No one knew who the Velvet Underground was in 1969 except for a handful of lunatics, so-called, in Manhattan. And then over time, we came to learn that one was just as influential as the other, maybe, depending on who you listen to and what kind of music you like. So, you know, maybe you're nuts. Goodbye, Louis. Yeah. Well, for real.

For real, man. Goodbye, Louis. And we Yes. Well, for real. For real, man. Goodbye, Louis. And we miss him. And we miss him all the time. We should check on the bag. Let's go see if there's anything else in that bag. And I think what happened before, I remember Kevin said, what? And I think what Mark was doing was pulling out a writerly device.

Yeah. We told him. We did tell him ahead of time to do some special sound drops. My high school friend Mark makes these sound drops for us. Special sound drops for the writers panel. Shout out to Mark. Great job. It's the end of the first act.

That's what he found in there and that's something that writers really need to have. This is a question from AJ. Throughout the 80s and 90s multi-cam sitcoms were the standard then in the late 90s and 2000 single cam sitcom started to increase in number what do you think the next trend will be an increase in cams or another reduction of which would sort of be like a fraction of a cam that is interesting yeah six cam six cam i'd love to see a five Yeah, six cam. Six cam?

I'd love to see a five or a six cam. Yeah. I think that's... Like, explore that. See what kind of stories we could tell with five or six cameras. Right.

Because it's still, it's a stage play, right? Yeah. With four cameras, you're not capturing maybe the funniest angles. Yeah, you're missing... That's why people

turned away from it. You're missing exits. You're missing entrances. Exactly. The farce. Overhead shots. All of this comes out of French farce, right? Sitcoms.

Yes. Comedie de l'art. Some of that is missing when you only have four cameras, right? Yes. And it was cool and it worked fine in the sort of primitive 70s and 80s. But what are we going to do next? How are we going to push the art forward? Where are we going to find the next level?

They were doing a thing on Goldberg's, I don't know if you saw this, where they experimented with sort of the cam sphere, which is almost like a zorb, but with like a large zorb, which is like a ball that you can, sort of like a hamster ball that you walk around in, but with all cams on the outside, and they put Garland inside. I love him. Well, and he's the perfect one for this, obviously.

And just watch him navigate the set inside sort of the cams orb and creating sort of a 3D rendering of Garland that you don't. It's a little shocking to see for the first time on television, but it's interesting. It was funny you said, I don't know if you saw this. I do know if I saw it, and I did, and I loved it. And I just think Garland is such a treasure. There's something about his voice.

Can I say something really quick to that question? Who was it who asked that question? It was AJ. It's such a great question, and I don't want to freak anyone out and sound too science fiction-y here, but the real answer that is being whispered all across studios and networks across the country is drone comedy. Mmm, yes.

With drones now, look, whether you think you've seen a drone shot or not, you have. They're already infiltrating everything from primetime network to the weirdest show on Adult Swim. Drone cams are everywhere.

You can put them. And people think I'm joking. I'm not. You can put a camera GoPro on a drone. You can get anywhere you need to be. And that's the future to me. You can hear it on About a Boy, sort of that like. That quiet. Yeah, that not so quiet hum.

Yes, they're screaming their dialogue on that show. And I will also say, when you talked about fractions of cameras, that that's kind of a misnomer because cameras are getting so small, you could actually fit them in a bug. I don't know what we do with that, but it is something that is available. And would that be funny to see what they eat or whatever? Oh, man. You know? That'll be fun. Pollen, I guess. I'm just hearing this. I want to start would that be funny to see what they eat or whatever oh man you know that'll be fun pollen i guess i want to i'm i'm just hearing this i want to start cracking that story what is that

gonna be you know that's just how my brain works this is so you you're never off you know you're always sorry you want to go to work take a saturday off let me talk to dave yeah i know i know even there and i gotta say because we're all friends here for the most part, some more than others, but I apologize for that. Because I know sometimes you want to just kick back and have a brew with me. Go ahead and rank us

friendship-wise. That could be interesting. Let's all do it. Well, should we really, for real? You want to rank the friends let's all rank the friendships and let's do it fast okay kevin one healy two and um you know it's probably i'm just gonna say this only because we've worked together sean three and hayes for? I would go Sean 1, Steve 2, Kevin 3, Engineer Cody 4,

Dave 5. Let's reach into the bag and we'll do another question. Oh, double camera comedy though. I forgot about that. Yes, I'm sorry. Please speak on that.

What's that? Did we miss that? We did miss that. Talk about that. Because we've talked about single cam, we've talked about four cam, five cam, six cam.

Yes, double cam. 30 years from now, I say double cam. We're going to have two cameras on set. We're going to be shooting both of the actors at the same time. Yes, just going boom, boom, boom. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Just back and forth. But wait a second, Kevin.

We won't be here 30 years from now because global warming. I mean, you know, some of these bullshit motherfuckers. All right, what's in the bag? I'm trying to talk business, man. Yeah, well, I'm trying to talk about, you know, business too. And people are making it pretty hard to do my job when they're all full of fucking trash that they want to spew out all over the news at me. So I'm sorry if I got upset, but fuck you.

Now let's get back in the bag. Yeah, let's hit the drop. Let's just play the drop. Ooh, it's the tag on the end of the show. What? What are these drops? Well, this is probably the last question that we can do. That just happens sometimes.

That's appropriate. Sometimes you pick the end of the show out of the bag. Yeah, that's unfortunate. I would have liked to have gone longer. Yeah. This question from Aztec. We have to keep it short. But I've heard the writer's room can be a difficult place for female writers

because it's a bit of a boys club. Is that like a gay thing? Homo eroticism is definitely part of it. It's definitely a part of it. No question. And it's really, I mean, that can be like admiration for another. I mean, yeah, go on. Does that express itself sexually sometimes, admiration?

Yeah, absolutely. How else are you going to express that? Does anyone have a specific story from a room that they were in? Well, I've had sex with a few of the men that I work with. Which ones? I don't think it would be couth for me to say. I will say. I don't want to say.

I don't have any specific stories, but Joe Mandy is always giving off kind of a... He's open for business. It's almost like he's presenting. You know what I mean? Yes, the way that a baboon would or something. Or a peacock, yeah. Where they sort of show you their bulbous, engorged anus and the colors and so forth.

You do with jokes. You do with jokes. Make it look like a target. It's a target for the wiener. I mean, ultimately. Yes. For the, I'm sorry to be crass. That is, that's Joe Mandy to me.

The most sensual of male. We're talking about Joe Mandy's ass and butthole? No, Healy. Well, no, but it's a metaphor. I would think a real writer would know that. And I've now used your own phrasing against you. Why are you trying to needle me so hard? What's going on?

Can we get into that psychology? You're coming at me strong. Well, you're the only one here who I don't really know. And so to me... Is that foreign? I need to sort of establish... Look, I know where I stand in the pecking order with everyone else.

Kevin's my boss. Hayes is smarter than me. Dave King's been very funny today. But you've been quiet enough that I think I might be able to slide in right over you. And it's going to take some fancy footwork on my part. Right. How do you think it's going? Well, it seems that

by just sitting back and not really responding, you're somehow winning. And just sort of phrasing these questions to me that puts the onus on me i'm just so sorry to explain we didn't talk about why there's any what the dynamics are what's happening somehow i can't win right yeah it would be hard it's hard to have boxed you in fairly effectively unveiling the mask and it's not feeling good well i'm trying to put you on

edge in the hopes that that will make you funnier is that but it's not here one it's not feeling good. I'm trying to put you on edge in the hopes that that will make you funnier, but it's not happening for me. Do we want to go around and say who we each write for on our different shows? I disagree. I think we're seeing a great side of it. Oh, yeah? Is this a new way in which I'm funny? Can I stop you guys real fast? We're just going to go around and say which character we each write for

on our different shows. Ah, yes. It's sort of an illuminating thing. Go ahead. I write for Blake. When I was on sort of an illuminating thing go ahead i write for uh blake when i was on a family guy i wrote for the the baby uh parks and rec i write for uh ben when i was on frank tv i wrote for al pacino and um when i was on workaholics i wrote mostly for alice i wrote for julie on alan gregory and um i write for a character called Ghost Man on Workaholics.

Carson Daly, mostly when I was on Last Call with Carson Daly. Paul Schaefer also. On London. And we have to give out the pro version. The pro version of the show. Who has it this week? Who has a pro version?

Scooby Doops bought the pro version this week. And as a prize, I guess it would be... He gets a writing job. Yeah. So anytime if one of these guys, you know, sells a show next year, then Scooby-Doobs just go ahead and hit him with the email. Bye! Bye!

Bye! This has been an Earwolf Media Production. Executive Producers Jeff Ulrich and Scott Aukerman. For more information, visit Earwolf.com Earwolf Radio Boom.com Oh, oh, oh The wolf dead.

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