Hollywood Handbook - Jessica St. Clair, Our Small Talk Friend

Episode Date: July 26, 2022

The Boys welcome back JESSICA ST. CLAIR to help them with their small talk.Check out Sean and Hayes's bonus content at Patreon.com/TheFlagrantOnes.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

this is a head gum podcast so i'm like do you want to see the den like you know like oh yeah sure and like we so we walk in there and i can tell that she is like very by it. She's not reacting at all. And her face is so frozen that it's like, oh, you're putting so much effort into not showing how... Just controlling yourself. Yes, how much this is connecting with you. And I'm like, it's okay.

You can take your shoes off and feel the rug if you want. And she's like, no, that's okay. I'll leave them on. And I'm like, well like you could take your shoes off and feel the rug if you want and she's like no like that's okay i'll leave them on and i'm like well you could you don't want to feel it with your hands you don't want to like get like the rug is so the curls are so tight in this den it's like italian marble but but we're we're so repressed in our society where everyone has to pretend that they don't want to take their shoes off and feel the rug under their feet especially this rug which is as you said it's practically italian marble it's like bare like like the effect of the tightness of the curls they're like imperceptible they're so like harsh you cannot

distinguish one from the other and honestly if i didn't know that it was a rug because i was with you when you purchased it i would think it was italian marble and and when and when i walk in because i know you i love you we have have been partners in this venture for so long. You know, my Crocs were flying out the window before I got halfway past the threshold. Kicking them off like you're in Seven Brides for Seven Brothers. And the freedom charms were popping off of all the sill and everything was shooting every which way

because i couldn't wait because i feel so free and loose around you but the the the woman you had in your home is just like just in this straight jacket we call society isn't she and it's like you're selling this so like you need to understand like you need to communicate the specialness of it to others like i'm not sure i'm like working with the right person also like she was weird it's so sunken obviously and more so i like really every day and so now you kind of have to like hang off the side you don't fall in but you like hang off the side and then you like release yourself and you sort of drop in yeah i'm able to sort of slide down there um you know because there is there is a a nearly imperceptible incline in the wall yes and

so you can slide yeah so i'll just i'll just flat back against it and dig my heels, and then I'll just straighten my legs out and shoot down to the floor. And the wood has got... So, Jessica, I'm looking at your wood situation here. We're checking out yours, yeah. I'm counting the knots. I see... Let me see if that's something on my screen. So that wasn't a knot.

I'm counting four knots. I not getting four as are we thinking of getting any more so in this in this den could we go not we're basically nothing we're basically nothing but not in this and the paneling in this in this den that i'm working with you're okay hayes is naughty by nature yeah there you Listen, can there be too many knots? I don't think so. These knots, by the way, are from Don Knotts' era when he was really, you know, at his prime. Because all of these cabins, and I'm in my cousin's summer house in New Hampshire, these were all built in the 70s, early 70s. Wow.

Where's our scared? Some vintage Don Knotts. Yeah. new hampshire um these were all built in the 70s early 70s where's our scared don knots yeah i was told that we'd have more knots than an eagle scout uh when we wow when we walk into the zoo with you where's our don where's our don for 2022 where's our guy who's like going to like he's going fighting in the tomorrow war i guess it's mitch it it's Mike Mitchell. We could use a Don. Yeah. Were Don Knotts, though, that character would have been canceled immediately.

For being too scared? Well, for that, I guess so. But wasn't he always, wait, was he hitting on Chrissy and Janet? I can't really remember if he was a sexual predator in his own way. I think he sort of was. He was definitely

homophobic i know that you know i don't want to spend too much time on it because i think we will cut it but i but i you know i i would prefer that we cut it so i don't want to talk about it for the whole episode i want to figure out let's just talk about like, this is great. Like this is really working. It's fun. Like we have like it, like as, and as soon as the red light goes on, like we, I,

we can get there, you know, what we, I'm so embarrassed to like even ask this, but I, I do want to be the, your show is about being vulnerable and like transparent about this stuff. The deep dive that you host with June.

The show is working great. You agree. Our show. Yes, absolutely. Everything from like beginning to end that the audience hears is special. It's like it's valuable. Sure. Like, like, like chemistry. And's valuable. Sure. And it's chemistry.

And it just feels easy. It feels easy breezy. Yes. Yes. Covergirl. Yes. Yes. It's beautiful.

It's the off screen. It's the off screen that, quite honestly, I almost faked that I was frozen to say that i didn't get connection in new hampshire and that i couldn't do this podcast because the disaster and it was as if you guys don't even know each other like yeah and and that you actively dislike one another yes the awkwardness between you two yeah for sure uh the everything before the show and what happens after the show will also be like that i just yes when we the second we stop rolling it is horribly painful and awkward yes and that's and i think it is sniping and the little comments of like did you really mean

to say that what you said during the show just like the the one-upmanship and yes yes the competition that is so ugly yes ugly ugly ugly it's ugly and i'm so glad you guys can talk about that honestly because that is being vulnerable to say to the other person you know you hurt me with your small talk yeah because that's not what it's meant to do no i i my understanding is that it shouldn't but i don't know any other way right yeah i it was not modeled for me this was not these were not the models of my childhood was that you just make small talk and it's not some sort of death battle wrestling match you know right nobody in a small talk exchange and i and again i have coined myself an expert um when no june has been very aggressive in saying nobody has told casey wilson and i that that we are experts we have self-named ourself that but in small talk nobody wins but everybody wins does that

make sense that's so that's so that's so beautiful and it's so outside my experience of course it small talk right was a fucking knife fight yeah yes right like fight in a phone booth it was more of a yeah the beat it it was more of the beat it video yes but not as fun as our small talk yeah yeah just like gripping arms yeah and then bouncing about so yeah anything i would love to guide to help you guide you guys you know because also like you know in hollywood small talk is everything you know a lot of times you go to a meeting and that's all you're gonna do you're gonna do oh and your lights out and your lights out and i've noticed you're unbelievable at small talk the show i don't always enjoy right you know our small talk you love but the small talk the

stuff before we roll is like it's gold it's smooth as silk it's gold yeah i don't even realize i'm being handled right well i handled you i handled you big time if you noticed i was not even i did not even have both of my earbuds in before i heard you say one word pet yes and i jumped in immediately i said what's going on what's going on now i don't want to get too personal but i said what's going on? What's going on? Now, I don't want to get too personal, but I said, what's going on? And then immediately I'm connecting with you. And I'm telling you, I've been through this. I feel you. You felt seen, right?

Immediately. That's just from the word pet. Yeah. But being jealous of a pet that lives across the street that you see. No, my neighbor. No, we could get personal. We could get personal. Okay.

Let's get personal. Okay. No, my neighbor has a pet. I didn't know that was even allowed on our block. I did call the block, Captain. i did say we're doing it's not an hoa it's not like a you're not you're not you guys aren't connected your dwellings it's just a block of separate buildings and you guys have rules well there was sort of i guess an unspoken rule which i didn't i didn't speak it no one else spoke it and then suddenly somebody

shows up and the first thing i see is the leash right and and at the end of the leash i'm going just following that yeah i'm i'm tracking it all the way to the bottom right and at the end of the leash there's this beautiful russian tortoise wow oh and what is this that's a cry for help from that from that owner what i certainly cried for help right right as it helps you get me the black captain yeah yeah you know because all because you know that's a pet too that's gonna be here 100 150 years and especially with everything going on with everything with all the unrest like not now like right now with russia too forget yeah wow i mean that person well honestly and and here's where i'm coming from. Get a Ukrainian tortoise.

But listen, it's not it's too soon for that kind of humor. But what's what I'm thinking about is that tortoise. No, that tortoise is such a wonderful entry to small talk. So you're seeing it as a jealousy or you're seeing it as a violation. But for me, I'm like, oh, you've got a tortoise. It's just like an improv, right, where you're you're gonna someone's gonna say something that's a little odd and then you're gonna the strange thing you're gonna jump on that thing someone's got a tortoise i mean that that work's been done for me because i'm saying oh my god when did you get it how long

does it live where is it from you know and oh what does it eat right nice shell asshole no again you're never gonna want to insult it this is what about like this is making it this is making it aggressive isn't it exactly no you're never gonna want nice fucking shell asshole mind if i mind if i shuck it okay okay you're never gonna first of all you can't shuck a turtle no i don't know if you've ever tried it you'd if anything you'd have to shake it to get the turtle meat out because no i don't know yeah you would not be able to pry it apart it's stronger than bone well no they would say that to me now i'm on the defensive you know you're never gonna want to talk about cooking a pet you never want to talk about cooking or shucking or maiming in any way somebody's treasured pet.

Somebody else's pet. That's going to put the Iron Curtain to talk about Russia down on that small talk exchange. Too soon. Okay. Let me write that down. What do you do physically? Because, like, you know, Sean, you know, I know i was there of course because sean had run out of the house and i'm just like watching him go and his choice to kind of like nudge the turtle

along with his foot like no never touch it kind of scooted along the side but then what do you do you know if you're not what are you what was i supposed to do what's the physical action the thing is fucking i mean i know it's a cliche at this point it was very slow well what was it doing on your sidewalk first of all i will say this you don't own that sidewalk that's that's city property so i know you guys have had these these rules this little city state you guys aren't monaco you know what i mean you can't come up with your own like that guy has every right to walk that turtle okay again i i don't know where you're living it sounds like a very you know exclusive shanako is that what you're calling it okay that's what the yeah that's what's at the top of the paperwork are you the block captain uh oh well i i aspire to be and i'm

something of a block co-captain at this point okay okay he's giving the block captain he doesn't listen we can talk about this he's giving the block captain a lot of tests he's he's trying to kind of like prove to the rest of the neighborhood that this ain't working so we got there's an animal out yeah the guy the guy was a great great block captain for a very long time okay uh he got some kind of surgery i think captains get comfortable yeah he got right yeah he said it was on his foot but it doesn't account for the personality difference i'm seeing where there's just a pandemic the pandemic has taken a toll on a lot of us you know yeah on well it's also you're not the only one in a pandemic it's sharpened some of us you know so let's absolutely

absolutely some of us are coming out on top you know know? Someone like Sean, who's been, like, studying the blade for the last two years. Right, training. Yes. Right. He's been in the dojo. Yeah. No, you lock me inside, I start doing push-ups. Right, but what I feel like you guys are coming to me about

is, you know, you need to come into the dojo of, you know, how to interact with strangers, you know, in a with strangers you know in a friendly in a more friendly way well yeah and and you can't you know i i've learned as as block co captain soon to be hopefully sole captain uh that the you know force is always uh not always the best first option and that that sometimes you can sort of guide people to your way of thinking with with some artful small talk which you you obviously you know were doing with me before the show i didn't even realize i was being handled you were being handled but and and when i say

that i mean i wouldn't physically touch you though until i've heard that a lot probably probably never i'm gonna say that i'm gonna never and she said and she said and then she said it again to make sure you heard it the first time okay i'm never gonna physically physically touch you in a small talk no you'll hit him with the hezi scenario okay get him in the air yeah what pump fake could go yeah right dream shake yeah you got to make sure that people don't think that you are you don't want to threaten them in any way and sometimes i you know and listen i because i always do it with funniness as well though like what do you mean give me an example of that well something like nice shell asshole you know and then kicking it like you kick somebody's turtle it was not a kick he was

nudging it along with his yeah with his foot leg the entire time yes first contact first pretty fast and doing a little hop with my free foot so So it was sort of like, it was a humorous in appearance. And how did, well, then the proof is in the pudding. How was it taken? What happened after you did that? When you touched his turtle shell? The police called the police. You know, like it was a gang with the police.

Which is the guy, the turtle had gone into his shell and the guy like picked up his leash and swung the oh and used it as like a nunchuck type of situation yeah closer to like a morning star but yeah okay yeah same same general concept wow so that's that really nunchuck would be two shells oh okay guys i haven't seen blade and i never. Okay? So this isn't a master class on Blade. So I don't know if that's... We've studied the Blade. We studied the Blade, yeah.

Is it The Blade? We studied the Blade, too. We studied the Blade Trinity. The character's name is called The Blade, yes. Yeah. Okay, I'm never going to see that. We've studied the Blade Trinity, Ryan Reynolds, Jessica Biel. Well, that actually is a dynamic duo, so maybe I will see it,

but both in their physical prime. But yeah. The time was hit in the butt. Okay. Well, you're lucky because you were running away. It sounds like you ran away the moment you see it.

Oh, the second, yeah. That's right. Well, you know, that's actually a really big part of small talk is knowing when you need to pull the ripcord. When to exit, yeah.

Knowing when, because sometimes what will happen is, now we always say, Casey and I say, you go shallow to go deep. Okay? So a lot of people think that small talk is a waste of time because they're like, why are we just skating on the surface

when really I want to have a meaningful, deep conversation well. That's me. Okay, you like a deep conversation. Let's get in there. Great, great. get rid of the bullshit you know what i mean very i'm sorry you said what very sexual that's what it's all about right no let's talk about it we're actually thinking we're all doing it okay amen so sex okay that's

a more i wouldn't do that if you were a novice small talker, because again, that can seem threatening. Or people are, you don't want ever in an interaction for people to think you want something from them, because that puts them on the defensive, okay? That's why we're going to stage a neutral area. First of all, I don't want, I'm not here for sex. Nope. Okay.

If you say the word sex in the first line of any conversation somebody's gonna be on their defense they're gonna think that person's a psycho because it's too formal right okay it's no you're gonna fuck homeboy nope no no no okay again even words like homeboy like we're pushing limits that probably shouldn't be pushed in the first couple now if you're small talking with someone at a party and it's going well, and you bring up something more universal about men and women and married life. Wait, what did you just say? More universal than sex.

I'm just kind of struggling to like, you know. No, I'm saying you could bring up sex. You could bring up sex, but it have to be very general. Got it. Like between two women, you could maybe work in. I mean, who has the time for it or something? If you're too tired. Yeah, I got takes forever to bust.

Yeah, I'm sorry. What? No, we never. But that's what you said. No, you said who has the time for it? I'm ever to bust. No, no, I wasn't. So you never want to give a sentence that has them imagining you getting ready to bust

or taking a long time to bust. I'm talking about who has the time for sex in general. In this case, you're imagining your husband. But point taken because it's not. So I would say for you guys forever and and sean getting ready to do you can't even imagine it so i don't want to again just like the blade i don't want to imagine that i never will so what i would say for you guys because really like you're remedial like you need to stick to topics like the weather a holiday coming up you know the weather's so shallow you

know again like i said shallow to go deep like if you then get somebody comfortable then maybe you could start sharing some actually deeper you know experiences but you need to start small right does that make sense not to me but i know yeah. I feel like I'm getting through. Yeah. No, I want this so bad. And I can tell. And that's also, it's good for me too because we're in the writing stage right now of writing this book about how to small talk, the art of small talk. And I need people like you who are like, you know, really like you've been raised in the woods. Like you're like Nell.

You don't understand the English language. That's how bad you guys are at it and that's good for me to try and help you guys hollywood this week on the patreon the boys drop another memorable pro version carl and asan discuss their experiences at barber shops and, and the Flager Ones released their 200th episode with a very special guest. Check out all these bonus shows at patreon.com slash theflagerones. Hollywood Handbook. Eating better is easy with factors. Delicious, ready-to-eat meals. Every fresh, never-frozen meal is chef-crafted,

dietitian-approved, ready-to-go in just two minutes. Speakingitian approved ready to go in just two minutes speaking of ready to go in just two minutes chef kevin is here with his new show the chef kevin factor where he creates fresh never frozen meals now this is different kevin i just want to i just want to establish it's none of this like here's a like a pile of ingredients like this is the meal yeah it's not a recipe okay this is the meal you cook the full meal for us now okay yeah you don't just send us a bunch of stuff you had laying around in your cabinet you're actually doing the cooking and there are 35 different options to choose from every week including calorie smart protein plus and keto which is this it's a little bit of all

of them okay okay it shouldn't be there are also more than 60 add-ons to help you stay fueled up and feeling good all day long how many add-ons and what are some of them it's one big add-on and it's you on your bed you're so tired after you eat my meal the at the promises the meal makes us sleepy you've been pushing that so much you're saying that you will be added on to your bed yeah your bed plus one that's the opposite of what this is supposed to do it's supposed to help you stay a lot of these i know give you a ton of energy they have like smoothies and things like that. This is wrong.

Reservation for two? Me walking in my bedroom. What's the second? It's you in your bed? The bed. I guess Clippy. Fuel up fast with Factor's restaurant-quality meals that are ready to heat and eat wherever you are. Pancake, smoothies, and more.

Discover a wide variety of easy options for the entire day, like breakfast, midday bites, and more. This is not even up for consideration. So let's just hear what the actual meal is. options for the entire day like breakfast midday bites and more no we didn't even this is absolutely this is not even up for consideration so let's just hear what the actual meal what was the food i don't want to go to bed it's very simple it's one huge chicken nugget sign up and save we've done the math factor is less expensive than takeout every meal is dietitian approved to be nutritious and delicious head to factor meals.com slash the boys 50 and use code the boys 50 to get 50 off that's code the boys 50 at factor meals.com slash the boys 50 to get 50 off be a better you in 2024 with babble the science-backed

language learning app that actually works. Don't pay hundreds of dollars for private tutors or waste hours on apps that don't really help you speak the language. And the question that I always get, people stop me and they say like, hey, I trust you. I know when you endorse a product, it's something that you really use and care about but there's one language i'm trying to learn and that's body language so can babble teach me body language yes babble now has visual in-person lessons part of their quick 10-minute lessons that they do for other languages handcrafted by over 200 language experts to help you start speaking a new language in as little as three weeks babbles designed by real people for real conversations and that includes body-based conversations what does it mean when you drop someone off after a nice date

and they turn around at the door and they take their little index finger and they kind of like draw it towards them. They're pulling it. What does that mean? Does their finger hurt? I wonder if they spotted a spider web or something. They're trying to pull down the spider web. Yeah.

But I've seen this too after a lot of dates. and i need i need and have needed something like babble to figure out what the heck is this person doing with their finger because it looks like a it looks like an emergency i know i was supposed to do something or how about those people that stand in the street they're kind of like they've got like almost like police clothes on. It may be police. Yeah. And they're standing in the middle. And as I'm driving and I'm cruising, they're holding their hand up for like a high five almost. And they're really aggressively like pushing it out.

And I'm like, am I supposed to pull over and get out of the car? Yes. Or just do it out the window as I'm going. That's what I've been doing. That seems dangerous. Yeah. But some of these very subtle body language cues have escaped me and many listeners, I'm sure. Babbel's tips and tools are approachable, accessible, rooted in real life situations, which I have all the time, and delivered with conversation-based teaching so you're ready to practice what you've learned in the real world.

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rocketmoney.com slash the boys rocketmoney.com slash the boys this and maybe kevin you can actually like try to pull it up just to show what we're working with so we had the the musician kurt vile on recently one of our favorites big fan and he went on another podcast and we worked very hard to like do a good job with the small talk before so what you're pulling up is the other podcast kevin and where like it was like really clicking yeah okay and like we did we did not take your we did like a lot of the sexual stuff but it was like going great yeah okay and i'd have to hear it just to be and he actually was enjoying it so much that he like kind of just sat back and watched the show like he didn't even really feel that pressure to contribute that people sometimes do in a conversation where he was almost like you know you guys just go because i'm i'm enjoying

how could i just ask like how was he showing his enjoyment like how did you know he was silence okay because some you know in most of the talk like, I don't preach. Like a reverent silence. Yes, like awe. Like, wow, I am witnessing some really primo small talk right now. And I don't even want to mess up the flow by chiming in. So that part felt great. And he was leaning back physically. So sometimes when you get a cue that someone doesn't want to maybe engage in small talk,

it's when they physically remove their body from the seat or lean back or turn their body away. Not only was he doing that, he started looking around the room like, is anyone else seeing this? Like, am I the only one witnessing this achievement in small talk like he wanted finding another witness would make it real you know like yeah like am i gonna remember all of this like i need you know i need more um of a of an audience a community to share this moment with me this

moment with wow okay well i would yeah i would obviously need to hear exactly what you guys were saying to see if that was exactly what was happening. Kevin's got a clip of him on another podcast. And it's a more popular podcast. Okay. He went on here afterwards and this is his description.

Sort of like bolstered by the media. And we love Kurt. Very impressive background. This is top tier. It looks like you're doing something good over there in pennsylvania this this over here was used against me i did one of those podcasts called uh hollywood handbook you know that thing we've we've also done hollywood handbook and hayes has been a guest on the show they got me good they got they got you good in what way? Maybe this is supposed to be a secret or something,

at least in the podcast, but the description was, oh, they're supposed to be just some Hollywood assholes and just play along. Sure. So I did play along, but I didn't know nobody told me they'd be Hollywood assholes to me.

That is a difference. That's a kind of important fact to leave out so they were like just dissecting my lyrics and using them against me and then they used at the very end they were like what's that up there i was like that's the oxford english dictionary and they're like well maybe you ought to use that next time you try to write some songs bye and then they hung up on me. Really? Yeah, and at one time, because I said shut up at one point. The characters were so mean that I was just like, I was just trying to play along.

But don't get me wrong, I'm glad I met them. They were nice before and after. But still, I don't know. It took me two days to recover. Yeah, two days you were kind of plotting your revenge maybe not even see okay so it was the the work we put in on the before and after as you heard him say it went amazing the before and after the show he actually thought we were really nice guys you know and he was glad he met us Right. And then you really got him on the show. Well, we had it. We're no one's trying to get it.

We had just used up. All nice things. Yes, we we. Yeah, we're afraid. So we're you know, we thought because we'd been wanting to improve the small talk before, you know, before this. We're talking about let's make it better. But then we go. Well, then when we go to do the show we're all out of good shit well certain people can you know have enough energy to go one twice three times in a row

you know you guys want to talk about you got one good shot in you is what it sounds like and so you've got to either build up your stamina okay and maybe think more about the other person than just like what you guys are getting out of it you know i like i'm like kurt but who has i need a few days you and your i need a few days to recover you and your tired mom friends acknowledge, like, nobody has the time for this anymore. Well, it sounds like you really, like, hurt his feelings, you know? Absolutely, yes. And that's not ever what we want in a small talk situation, you know?

Okay. That's great to know. That's how it finally is over. Actually, I'm going to take that down. Being insulted, like, you insulted him. That thing about the Oxford Dictionary, like that's really tough, you know? That was me. Yeah, it sounds.

It sounded like a haze thing, didn't it? If I were small talking with a musician, I would ask like, hey, you know, like, oh, I love that song. First of all, complimenting is a huge thing for small talking. Okay. Because it's always good if there's a power nice shell asshole to the tortoise that again you're sending all sorts of mixed messages because you're complimenting the shell and yet kicking it and pushing it along i'm not and you called it an asshole you know and it's it was hard to know, like, are you talking to the owner?

Turn around, dear man, you know? At any rate. But I said, nice shell. I lead with a nice shell, which is a compliment. So it's just. And that is great. You're sending mixed messages. It's like, I'm sending mixed messages, but that's what I'm getting from you.

You're absolutely right. You said nice shell. And that would have actually been a wonderful entry if you hadn't followed it up with asshole or kicking it. Great. You know? So, but yeah, I mean, listen, if I was talking to a musician, I'd say,

oh my God, I love, you know, tell me something I don't know about, you know, songwriting or like, how did you come up with that song? Or is there an inspiration behind that? So I have tried this. Bandmates. And they're always like, I'm doing a show or whatever. And it's like, like yeah i'm trying to talk to you about the show like i'm trying to show interest here are you in the audience are

you screaming it not anymore i climbed up i'm trying to show like hey i actually appreciate what you're doing and i i yes i have i'm the guy that gets it like whenever i'm at one of these shows i'm like i'm the only only one among all these fucking chumps who actually gets what they're trying to do. Let me get up there and dig in, help them teach the audience something like you said, that they don't know about songwriting. So I try to get up there. And you can see how much...

There is somebody here who actually is on your level. How much effort I put climbing up there, you show really how interested i am the elastic on my shorts is kind of like coming down a little bit from the from the friction as i like as i'm scrambling up there nobody's helping me right right and all the other they're actually like doing the opposite yeah you get tased i bet i mean i get bet there's a couple security that are scrambling to get you down from there that's their job and somehow the effect of the taser is just my shorts coming down even more i don't know why so you're now standing pantsless on stage

short no no they're hanging not pantsless they're hanging off one of my feet okay so you're dragging your pants and what i would say to you guys feet. Okay. So you're dragging your pants. And what I would say to you guys always is, while you're kind of dipping your toes into the small talk world, see what the result is, the cause and the effect. If you're landing in jail,

if you are rendered immobile by a taser, that's probably not something we want to repeat. Something went wrong, either on their end or mine, yeah. Probably yours, if you were the initiator. Yeah, but we don't want to generalize and go like, oh, it's always on me that I'm ending up. Of course not.

No, it's a dance. It's a very delicate dance. It's a very delicate dance. Everybody has to learn. So this is actually helpful. I'm glad this came up organically. So in a small talk situation, if someone says small talk,

in what sense? If the purported expert says small talk, did I say that? Do I pause and let them reset? Wait, did I say small Tark? It doesn't matter. Forget it.

It could have been me. It could have been you. I don't want to label. Listen, guys, I'm writing a really serious book, so if I said small Tark, I want you guys to edit that out. Okay? Okay. So, Kevin, just serious book so if i said small tark i want you guys to edit that out okay okay so kevin just kevin we could do is go back through and and i don't remember who said it but but if someone said it would i you know would telling them i guess you're saying it would be helpful to inform them no because then they can if we're in a small talk scenario did i just say it again

god damn it it's this heat i'm in this new hampshire heat and i feel like my brain is oh my god new hot sure if you're in a small talk situation and they keep saying it you actually don't that would be an unusual thing that would actually be embarrassing if you pointed it out. So you would actually want to let that go. It's more like something. Just edit it out. Yeah, like somebody decides to have a turtle. They're asking four questions about the turtle.

So I feel okay about that. If somebody has a speech impediment, possibly, or they're having a stroke, you don't want to bring attention to that unless you need to seek medical attention here's one what if they have something in their teeth do i have something in my teeth it's not about who like well now i have to check do i have something in my teeth i was just eating a fig bar to To me, it looks like cocaine. Okay, listen. I'm with my parents right now. Okay? We all got to do

to get through a little time together. I have to. Okay? Okay? Joe talked to me until I't usually had my you know yeah not before i've had my bum eaten my yeah yeah yeah so anyway so yeah you want to make sure you don't make that person feel uncomfortable in any way so no i wouldn't say anything about about the teeth i would just keep

going unless it's you know you could i guess you could pause at some point to say i'm so sorry you have a little something but then they have to like what if it's a bee about to sting them yeah let them know for sure and then you can have small talk afterwards oh my god thank you so much no these bees are crazy anything else you know about you know it's funny like i heard that bees were endangered but what are they up to here they don't seem very endangered you know don't try to lead in those sex yeah don't yeah don't try to get i don't know how you'd make that leap it sounds like you guys are the bees you hoarded it wait what birds of the bees babe birds and the bees okay yeah again like i just feel like most natural thing in the world, especially in this. Is that your Don Knotts impression?

That was strange. That voice had a very Don Knotts-esque. When it's my Don Knotts impression, you'll know it. Was that it? Again, if you have to ask, that's it. You can't afford it. Honestly, that's it. You were afford it honestly that's it you were like you literally sound so much i would love for kevin to find a clip and just put him back to back

he did we he just yeah he already just pulled up a clip from a podcast clip and i'm gonna have him put and i gotta make all these edits with the torque small torque oh i knew this was a mistake. We're out of tokens. Kurt Feil did text me to say, whatever you do, do not get on with these assholes. And I should have listened to him. And I just thought I'd give you guys another chance. And I think we've gotten some good advice that will help the next time Kurt Feil hopefully comes back

or anyone. Doesn't sound like he'll be back. I mean, do you guys have many repeat guests that isn't John Gabrus? That's another thing we wanted to ask about. We don't really have him that much anymore either. Exactly. And if you offend John Gabrus, like then you've done, you've said something really bad because that guy really seems to be down to clown, you know?

But you did the show in 2014. You're kind of a regular. I know. It's interesting. 2014 2014 you're kind of a regular i know it's interesting 2014 god it's a lifetime so we've we've lived through a deadly pandemic since then you know some stuff has changed recessions you know financial upswigs the crash of the market you know it's just been a lot that's gone on between that and you're going to want to think about that why i haven't been on until now and i don't i put absolutely no blame on you whatsoever for like what you did in that episode like causing any of

that stuff i appreciate that because i have honestly like i it's almost like when you have a very traumatic event and it goes so it gets buried so deep into your psyche i have no memory of what i said on that i want to go on record anyone who tries to trace the results of the 2016 election back to your 2014 podcast appearance on hollywood handbook and some of the rhetoric you used wow is stretching They are reaching, grasping at straws. It's barely related. I can only hope that episode remains behind the paywall. That's all I can hope. And if I could pay to have it be put behind the paywall.

That's the real paywall now. I would do that. Do you guys find that a lot of your guests offer to pay you to not release their episode because that would be one of those those ding ding ding like we may be making onto something financially yeah no no that if they're saying like hey please and you go well you signed an DA or you signed a contract you know which I thought was very strange that I was FedExed legal papers I had to sign it is a little unusual to sign an NDA it's reporting a podcast appearance which will be you know ideally released unless you want to

make it worth our while to keep it right like that that now you know and again i'm with my parents it's been a long couple weeks but like i really those those are so great those are like that's right those are some warning bells in that should have gone off for me like what what's going to be said you know what am i going to say small talk question sure really the art of kind of like saying it without saying it like say you have been in an empty room podcasting from an empty room for like weeks and weeks and then suddenly like a couch appears in there uh-huh and like you're just kind of like waiting for everyone to like and it's really distracting from the show that there's this couch there and you're just like waiting for people to ask like to see you lounge on the couch you know what i mean uh-huh and like you don't offer it

like it's kind of selfish in a way to be like hey like do you guys want to see me go lounge on the couch you you wait for the other person to like ask for it you know what i mean no i don't so you're in it so is this something that's happened to you if we're going to be vulnerable is this something that's happening to you good um it's kind of interesting now that you mention it like i have sort of been this whole time sort of unable to hear or see anything that's happening because in my head I'm just thinking when is he going to go lounge on that damn couch? He's got to lie down, right?

We're talking about the couch. The volume of the couch. Got it. And you want to see him. So what you're saying is you've got to see him I don't want anything. You've got to see him lay down on it. Do you want to see him. I don't want anything. You got to see him lay down on it.

I got to see him lay down. Do you want to see him nap on it or just like see if he can get it? I just want to see him. Please don't fall asleep. I'd like to see him start to drift off, catch himself. It is a pullout. Okay, so if you said that in an exchange, okay, so if we're meeting for the first time and i said oh i love your couch it's

a pull out exact that's gonna be another one of those sexual warning bells that's gonna go off in my head and i'm gonna jessica what happened you're probably oh my gosh what happened fingy oh no this is just a a rubber, guys. You got it stuck? Jessica, what happened? Why did you need a rubber band where things flying around, papers and things? Guys, I am feeling so, I am trying to keep my rage down. Me too. This guy won't lounge.

That I have to stretch this so that I don't get enraged that i'm being you know my boundaries are being invaded every five seconds right there getting kurt violated yeah um uh i have a small talk question so so somebody brings up a movie they go go, have you seen, and we'll pick a movie. Have you seen Jumper? And they clearly want to talk about it. Okay. I haven't seen it, but I know what it is. Great. You know, is it more rude for me to go,

no, I've never seen it, to be honest. That's a great, yes. Or to tell a lie and go, sure, yeah, like just go ahead and tell me your thing you want to say about it. I'm not going to be lost and I don't really need to watch it. Is that lie okay?

Listen, it's, first of all, lying is a huge part of small talk. I'm okay with lying because when someone said, but not in this case okay i know this is getting complicated but if someone goes well i didn't do it i didn't do i didn't do it right i mean i did lie but i didn't tell that lie okay it's okay to lie for instance someone let's say you're on an airplane someone puts pulls out a john clancy book i said i was in it what you said you were in the movie i go you were like oh i was in it

and you didn't even know what i'm in it okay and then i go go home watch it again and then did that person say like what part were you and you didn't know anything about the movie he said he's the main guy i'm the main guy when he's the main guy. I'm the main guy when he's teleporting. The main star. Oh, so that's going to be... Oh, God. Is he unfolding the couch? The plastic is still hot. It's going to be hard to sleep. Is that part of the kink?

That the plastic's still on it? Kink? I'm a little uncomfortable. I mean... That's inappropriate's inappropriate sorry you were talking about a tom clancy novel yeah you were calling him john clancy but when john if someone pulls out a tom clancy novel let's say you're on a plane and you see that you could say oh is that a good one and you would never read a tom clancy book in your life oh i've been meaning to read that you could say you wouldn't even learn his name no i wouldn't even learn his name but you yeah but you could never read a Tom Clancy book in your life. Oh, I've been meaning to read that. You could say something like that.

You wouldn't even learn his name. No, I wouldn't even learn his name. Tork Clancy. Yeah, but you could tell that lie just because that kind of greases the wheels of conversation. And also, we love if the other person is the expert. Jessica, they're trying to read. No, I'm saying he's pulling out.

No, you would never interrupt somebody on a plane reading and say, is that good? Or like close to their face. What's happening now? How about now? Exactly. What's he saying? No.

And how do they know each other? And quite honestly, you should never, you two should never engage with somebody on a plane, especially if it's a person of the opposite sex. Because I have a feeling like you'd be court-martialed off that plane faster than you can say, you know, small talk. So gender is binary for you. Yeah.

Yeah, for sure. For me personally. Is this one of those clips you guys are going to release just like you know separate to everything we've been getting really good at that is this the kind of shit no this is like we've been really working on our clips this is like the pelican brief where you guys you know again i didn't see that i know you were in it one of you was in it i forget which one um i was the pelican i was the brief okay so you guys are trying to get me to say stuff that you can then hold over me

and then make me pay you this ridiculous sum of money to not have you release this. So I don't release that is what I'm asking. I'm thinking of changing the name of the show, Great Clips. Jessica, so this book, it's not actually a book yeah baker it's what is it it's not a book yet we're we're writing a book uh for malcolm gladwell's company um pushkin it's going to be an audible it's just just audio it's not going to be an actual book you can hold in your hand it's just going to be our voices book you can hold in your hand. It's just going to be our voices. Have you been in touch with Malcolm directly?

No, unfortunately. Although I'm a huge fan. I have questions for him if you do get. I would absolutely never, ever introduce you to. If you do make contact. Nope. And in fact, like, honestly. I have some things I'm curious about.

The deal's going to get blown as soon as they hear this you're in his book already who is will he be in yours you're in malcolm's book i am i wasn't gonna bring that up because um i don't want any kind of connection to him through you it all comes through you i'll tell you what so if you when you finish the book if you finish the book and i'm pulling it out on a plane someone can start talking to me as long as i haven't opened it yet that's right but you will never open this book because it's only audio okay and you should never be playing something podcast you said guys you should never be playing anything out loud on a plane. I hope you don't do that in the attempt to get attention.

No, I, I never want the attention to be on me. I wouldn't mind if it's on the very good song I discovered. Okay. Yeah. You're not going to want to do that. You're never going to want to do that.

Or like play a pod, you know, like I would never, especially your own podcast. You've never done that. Have you played would never especially your own podcast you've never done that have you played an episode of your own podcast like online for a coffee or something um not one with a guest okay so like that's that's weird that's that's a red flag to people what was it like uh that was the deal-making process like for an audiobook who did you who did you talk to

over at pushkin what was you guys gonna try to i don't again like i'm not comfortable with sharing with you guys like any kind of like my professional contacts just asking questions about your work literally you don't you do not have to say the person's name just say their email oh absolutely so i don't even care what their name is just like tell me what kind of what kind of email would you be absolutely would you be corresponding with asking to make a deal like that no basic questions curious about what you're doing not a good advertisement for the book to be be honest. Can't discuss it. Can't discuss it.

If I'm thinking about buying a book about small talk, and then I hear the author was asked a nice question. Guys, this is the thing, though. It's like the money I'm going to make on this deal, I'm going to end up paying you pieces of shit to not release this podcast. Everything's evaporating in front of me here in my cousin's summer house in new hampshire you know like i'm gonna be sleeping on this asshole's floor just because you guys have held so much ransom over me your cousin's an asshole here another clip that's another clip oh my god i hope nobody sends it to your cousin oh my god it's like

la confidential another movie i've never seen and i never will but that's one oh i'm out bye that was a hate gum podcast