Hollywood Handbook - Showrunners Panel, Our Major Event

Episode Date: July 18, 2016

Hayes and Sean team up with fellow showrunners PATRICK WALSH and KEVIN ETTEN to convene a panel on the job of running a writers room where they hold a draft to create the strongest possible room using anyone from history.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is a HeadGum Podcast. The race. With the electric zappers? With the electric zappers. Oh, my. And so hook up a car battery to the treadmill, kind of army crawling on the treadmill, kind of flat on my stomach. Getting electrically zapped? Getting zapped on my tummy at the same time. Oh, my. For the climbing wall, I climb up the treadmill. It's electric or no? For that part of it, you cannot de-electrify it.

Once it's electric, it is electric forever. Oh, my. Swimming through the pool, I pour some water on the treadmill, and I sort of run through that. Run through the water in the treadmill. Run through the water. Ruthie. At the water. Ruthie. At the mall?

Ruthie comes over. Oh, from rural Hawaii. She, I guess, doesn't work there, but has a lot of friends who work there, so she hangs out there a lot and sort of considers herself like she does work there. So she likes to act like she does. Does she wear an Equinox shirt? She's wearing one of her friends' Equinox shirt that's too big.

Right, but does the shirt say greet, coach, or clean? It says Ruthie. They gave her her own job just to be Ruthie. Is she dating the fellow who was a DJ that season?

We didn't talk about this. Oh. We just didn't, it didn't get into personal stuff because she comes over just saying, stop, stop, stop it, stop it. No. Yes. And so we get into back and forth for a little while.

And it ended up that I, because I was in sort of a climbing mode, that I climbed her. And then I was like helping other people up. Because that is actually part of the race is that you don't leave anyone behind. And so the next people are coming up and I'm like sort of lifting them. Like the girls especially. The girls are smaller and they're not as strong and you like we don't say that on this show

I'm sorry what did I tell you I'm sorry I didn't know we had we don't say that on this show the girls are smaller and they're not as strong that's not even proven the world's passing you by now finish the story you climbed them up on top of Ruthie. You pulled up the girls only because everyone needs a pull-up every now and then.

Man, woman, black, or other stuff. And I got the shirt. Indians and stuff. I got to be Ruthie at the gym. Yes! Hey, welcome to Hollywood Handbook, an insider's guide to kicking, biting, dropping, and the red carpet lineback hallways of this industry we call showbiz. Yes, Hollywood Handbook. What up, what up? Have fun today. We've never done such an exciting thing like this before. No, we haven't. This is the best episode. I like to announce at the beginning

that we're having our best episode. If you've listened to other ones, I feel bad for you. You're pathetic. It's two guys who've been on the episode before. Not flagship episodes, necessarily. Not necessarily list makers. Good. Solid eps. But you know what was missing

from each of their episodes? Each other. Each other, yes. And so sometimes we bring people in and we say, like, maybe this wasn't the perfect combination, but maybe if we rearrange these pieces a little bit, this puzzle will start to come into focus. Well, and I'm getting into it a little bit early, but when you're assembling people for a project like this, you're something of a chemist or a chef. Maybe a pinch of Kevin Etten.

Or a scientific chef. A dash of Pat Walsh. With the freezy gas. Molecular gastronomicy. Yes. And it's Kevin Etten and Pat Walsh are here. And what we want to do is have them introduce themselves, but not just in their context as individuals, as men, but also as showrunners.

As individuals, as white men. We do have six white men in the room today. And that's not because women are smaller and weaker, like Hayes said. It's because we don't really know any that want to hang out with us. Except for my wife. Steppy Graff. Because we don't really know any that want to hang out with us. Except for my wife. And Kevin, the production coordinator, isn't even here yet taking the pictures. Oh, that's right. There will ultimately be seven white men.

Cis. Cis men. We want our guests to talk about themselves, but also the shows they've run in the past. Because what we're trying to put together here is a showrunner's panel to teach people about the craft of building a show from the writer's room to the bathroom. Managing every facet of all the different rooms involved in the show. The little kitchen part. There's the kitchenette, yeah. What up, what up?

What up, what up? Thank you, Kevin. A fan, I see. Absolutely. Kevin Hatton-Garrens. What up, what up? Oh, and Pat Walsh is a fan, as I found out. And silence from Engineer Brett, I just want to point out.

As people are sort of announcing their fandom of the show, Brett says, I'm going to sit this one down. It's not his place on the show to be saying that. He would be punished if he did say it. I thought the silence was like my flagship thing. Okay, Brett, you interrupted Kevin. He was going to say something. Are you just remembering a word I used like three minutes ago?

Flagship? Terrible use of that word. Okay, Brett, you're interrupting Kevin, and he was trying to say something. No, I just wanted to say before we start that just that term writer's room that gets thrown around. It does, doesn't it? I don't love it. Oh, good. Because to me, I would call it, like, we call it, like, a confessional. It's the therapist's couch.

Yeah. You know, it's a place where we go in, and it's such a, you know, private, kind of beautiful space. Yeah, stories don't come from writing stories. Stories come from opening up your heart. Kevin, I don't want to interrupt Sean's interruption of you, but I also see it as a playground. My turn. It's something of a therapist playground.

Yeah. My turn. It could be a water slide. That's true too. Well, I just, you know, we're talking about how serious it is. You're opening up your chest. You're showing people your heart stories and the feelings of them. But also some of those feelings is fun, like a water slide.

And sometimes it can be like a trash can. Sure. I dare you to disagree with that, Brett. You want to interrupt that, Brett? Sure. Some days the writer's with that, Brett. You want to interrupt that, Brett? Sure. Some days, the writer's room can be a trash can. Some days, I feel like I'm taking a water slide into a trash can. Yeah.

Having fun all the way down, but then when you land in the trash, you've got stand-up banana peel draped off your head. Yeah, fish skeleton in your hair. Mm-hmm. Heathcliff. You would think the water would clean up the trash, but... Well, no, because it's at the bottom of the slide. It would suck you out of the trash and up the slide, which is not.

Yeah, but the water. Not any slide I've ever seen. Star Trek, I love that kind of stuff. Ooh, space. Such a rich area for a story. So you guys. Wait, I want to know what show. I want a description of this space that you've created, Kevin, that's so

ripe for sharing, and also the show that you've created it for. Right. So I work, I help to run Workaholics right now. And I also did a pilot, very successful one, Canned, for ABC. I'm sure you guys, at this point, it's kind of one of those. Brilliant but canceled. Brilliant but canceled. Freaks and geeks kind of. It gets passed around. That was Amanda Bynes.

That was Bynes. That was the last thing Amanda Bynes ever did pretty much. In her life. In her life. It was that, and she threw a bong out a window or something. Mm-hmm. In her life. R.I.P. It was that and she like threw a bong out a window or something. Well, that's huge, man. Yeah, I know.

That is kind of what I've been coasting off of. But, you know, Workaholics in terms of creating a safe space, it is a place where we can come in and we just tell each other

stories about our lives and anything goes. You're not trying to make each other cry in that room, but if it happens, it's welcome. Right. The only thing really unwelcome is judgment. That's right. Pat, what shows did you run and how are you doing?

I'm doing great, thanks. I got my start on Just Eldon, which is the Murphy Brown spinoff with Robert Pastorelli. I said, who can we get for a spinoff? They said, Just Eldon. I said, there's the show. Nobody had bothered to check Pastorelli's avail. We did not have him to play the role of Eldon, but we shot it, and it lasted about four eps.

And who ultimately was your Eldon? Our Eldon was a third Belushi named Alex Belushi, who was adequate at best. He was certainly the lesser of the Belushis. The lessest. Yeah. After that, you know, there's all these minority shows on TV. Oh, yeah.

Minority Report. Blackish has the blacks. Cristela has the Latinas. Muppets has puppets. And I go into Johnny Davis. I go, Johnny, I got to pitch Indigenous People of Papa New Guinea. Where's their show? We call it Big Papa, parentheses, New Guinea.

People don't get it, but they should. Yeah, hopefully the parentheses, you can lose them somewhere around season four. I think so. I think people are on board. And now I created the lucrative CBS franchise, Abracadabros, which is about a team of magicians, which aired two full months before the premiere of Now You See Me and years before Now You See Me 2. I did Abracadabros. I did Abracababies, which was like the junior edition. I did Flabracadabra, which was Fat Magicians.

Don't leave anyone out, you know. I did Flabber Cabarbra, which was a Flabber Cadabra spinoff starring Rebel Wilson. And I did Behind the Candelabra Cadabra, which was about Gay Magicians. That is such a thorough list. Thank you. Pat, I like hearing this. So when you're doing all this magic stuff. Yeah. Is that your review of it?

No. When you're doing all this magic stuff, all these abracadabra shows, the entire abracadabra-verse. Sure. What do you say to people who think, like, well, isn't the whole point of magic that it's actually happening? And if you have cuts and camera tricks and special effects, then it's really just like not even, it's taking away the only element that makes magic interesting or impressive. Well, in its purest form, which was abracadabra's, uh, each hour long episode was done without

cuts. Oh, wow. Sort of, uh, children of men, birdman or, or Nick of time with Johnny Depp. Birdman has six cuts. Oh, wow. Sort of like Birdman or Nick of Time with Johnny Depp. Birdman has six cuts. Does it? You can find them. It's not easy. Go frame by frame. You do have to go frame by frame,

which I'm happy to do because I have a lot to learn from that movie. Can I say that you did mention a couple of the magic shows that are personally my favorites. It's great for you to be so humble, but the hummus-based magic show that you did? Sabricadabra? I was going to say Sabricadabra. That's right.

Yeah. And the one that was the crossover between the game show hosted by Ben Bailey and a magic show. Cash Cabra Cadabra? Cash Cabra Cadabra. Now, I'm only talking about the ones that are still on the air. Okay. But those certainly hold a special place in my heart.

Well, we've all run shows, haven't we? No, would you... Yeah, have you talked about yours? The show that you've run? Well... Have you talked about it on the show before? Yeah, I've run two. I mean, I've run two.

I mean, I try to keep my hands in drama and comedy, so I am still doing Outlander. We're very excited about the next season. I think it's about space or something like that, and I love that stuff. As part of the very, very small sliver of the population that enjoyed comic books and Star Wars growing up, being able to get in that sandbox. Proud man.

Talk to me about Outlander. Oh, yeah. About all the space stuff. It's authentically romantic and it is empowering, I think, for everyone. What do you guys have planned for the characters? Oh, what's in the hopper?

Yeah. Oh, brother. I'm glad you asked. I'm not liberty to say, of course. Just a little. I signed so many NDS. The broadest stroke. Just a little bit. Yes.

The man will have sort of a pirate shirt. We've talked a lot about flagships. Well, that's like a pirate ship. That skull and two bones flag is, you know, that's a flagship too. And the man will have a pirate shirt. And he will be standing like looking. Wow. So that show, but obviously I also want to laugh.

So we're into pre-pro. Everyone knows that nightmare. Yeah. On pasta man. Hello. Italian Jamaican family. Spaghetti colander on our head. Spaghetti dreads.

Fettuccine dreads. The list goes on. Tagliatelle, all handmade, spinach pasta, whole wheat, sun-dried tomato pesto as shampoo. What's it about? The pasta mod is a sheriff. Okay. What's it about? the pasta mod is a sheriff okay what's it about?

a mean sheriff I mean I saw it on deadline I want to hear it horse's mouth what's it about? yeah I guess it's about we all wear masks don't we? yeah

well what if the mask was instead of being over your face on the top your head, and it was a spaghetti colander, and it had sort of dreads coming out of it? So that's, you know. Are they al dente? Brett, you interrupted me. Hayes, did you run a show? I thought, by the way, the most fascinating aspect of Outlander to me

is that they shoot it in Detroit. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah, I remember that when I was doing that. Yeah. Those lush countrysides and moors and landscapes, I don't know how they do it. That you would say, oh, really?

Yeah, well... You seem pretty checked out. Checked outlander. I had gotten so in this... You know pre-pro can be a nightmare. I had gotten so into the Postamon world that I was in some ways divorcing myself from that outlander

thing where we're doing it in Detroit, I guess. I will say you seem to have a very hazy understanding of Pastaman as well, though. Well, what I like to say is every time you define what the show is, who the characters are, where it's set, what's happening in the show, you are closing off so many avenues that I like to stay open. I don't like to say the show is this. I like to say the show could be something like this if you like that or we'll change it. And it's that kind of malleability.

Yeah, because they have so much freedom to pitch just literally anything. Right. And they know ultimately I'm going to go down the hall, you my buds in, and just click-clack it away, and some gold's going to come out. But it's all going to be inspired by what they've said. Has you ever run a show or TV show? I did a show called Sugar Man's Halloween. It was an anthology show hosted by the Sugar Man.

Searching for Sugar Man. Rodriguez. Yeah. About the different things that he thinks are scary. And the scariest thing to him is fame, is like being recognized for his fame. Amen. So it's a lot of him playing a song

and then getting scared of the good song that he's playing. So he's like looking at his guitar and he's like getting kind of freaked out by the song being so good. And then he starts to like try to run away from his guitar while he's playing it. So like he can't really stop playing the guitar and he seems kind of like amazed that it's going with him while he's playing the song. What's the name of the corkscrew pastas?

Fusilli? Fusilli? Fusilli. Okay, well, that's season two, by the way. Go ahead. What else did you do? No, what is season two? Pasta Man?

Yeah. I had said fettuccine, handmademade Tagliatelle, Dreadlocks. Season two is Fusilli. Season two, maybe we go into Fusilli. I just had that idea. I wanted to record it. This is where I get a lot of the ideas for my shows, is I go back and listen to what I said on the podcast.

The other thing, and I didn't know if I should bring this up or where we're at. You're just as safe here as you are in your writer's room. Thank you. He doesn't like it to be called that. I think it was three weeks of helping to run this show, my stint here. Oh, on Handbook. On Handbook, yes. And, you know, we didn't even talk about it beforehand, and I know—

You showed up at a pivotal turning point for the show. You helped to define a lot of the culture here that remains. And you, if I remember correctly, you pitched Engineer Brett. Yeah, that was the one thing I can take credit for. And, you know, I wouldn't say I ran the show. I ran it was the one thing I can take credit for. And I wouldn't say I ran the show. I ran it with the two of you, but I knew there was

something missing. Do you remember what the pitch was? You can tell the story. This is not my story to tell. If you want to put that out there... He's so humble about it. I don't... This is not my story to tell. If you want to put that out there. Yeah. He's so humble about it.

I don't. You know, again, I go back to it being a confessional booth, a church. Right. A Buddhist monastery. But this is, again, this is your show. Fly, little birdie, fly. My recollection of it is that you were late that day. Okay.

And we were all sort of like, should we get started? Like, do we just go home? So quick that you get used to that guiding hand. Yes, yes. And then Kevin comes in soaking wet. And not with water, we should say. No. With, I guess, juice?

Yeah, some kind of juice. I think you said it was tangelo or guava. Right. It was like a green five. Oh, okay. And he said... I'm conflating two stories. You are.

He said, guys, I'm so sorry I'm late. I was just at Gelson's. I was doing my shopping, and this guy just suddenly flew into the store on a sled. The automatic door is open for him, and he smashed into all the juice and he spilled juice everywhere on like sort of a roller sled that it looked like was something that he invented. And he had a beard and he was wearing a little Newsboys

cap and he seemed like he liked to pretend that he loved music and I think this is a guy that you should have on your show. I said, do that again, what you just did. Can you do that again? He did it four more times.

And we were both arrested, and we came straight here. So sorry if I was an hour and a half late. No, no one was mad about any of that, and you had the juice on you. And he did it four more times, and he's done it 100 times since then, and it's the only thing he does, and it's the only thing he needs to do.

Pretending he likes music is such a huge part of Engineer Brett. Today is the first day I've seen him not in a Beatles T-shirt. And the Beatles, as we all know, are this little indie group. And he's decided to go into sort of the counterculture film world today by wearing a Star Wars t-shirt. But he somehow finds these little niche artists and these movies and bands. These weird characters even from Star Wars that are like the deep cuts that people don't know about.

I've never seen some of these guys. Yeah, like Darth Vader. I'm a huge fan of the movie. I've never seen some of these guys. Well, you put a shirt like that on, and then you go out, you meet a young lady in a Darth Vader shirt as well, and you're like, well, now I know this is my soulmate. Yeah, exactly.

Which is exciting. If they know this stormtrooper that's on it, I mean, that's just instant connection. Yeah, Bruce. I just want to say, Kevin, I had to pass on running this show, and I'm so glad that you got that job and not somebody I didn't like and respect. Maybe it's tacky to bring it up, but I think you knew I was going to be the first choice. Absolutely. I hope you nailed it a second, and it sounds like you did.

I think so. Second, or were there people between? There were. Yeah, I mean, numbers are not my strong suit. I'm a words guy. Yeah, so we don't necessarily have to get into who was in between Pat or whether Pat was even first. Yeah.

But what we really – I think I was the one first. Yeah, and you may have been. That's what my agent told me and agents are notoriously very honest people. Should we build a room? I mean,

is this going to be so fun for us to just jump into? Is it time to get our hammer and saw out of the toolbox and build the perfect room? We've all worked in many

confessionals, Buddhistdhist monasteries namaste uh water parks water parks trash cans trash cans as well and um oh and also i ran the show the grinder and um we uh have all worked in those environments and I ran community and rest development. I'm a genius. So we know what it takes. So you'll remember later? Yes. So we know what it takes to create a great room.

So let's do sort of a fantasy draft. This is sort of the first responsibility of any showrunner. You say, okay, it's time for me to assemble my team. And so you draw from a pool of all the available writers. But what a pleasure this will be for us where everybody's on the table. Ideally, you get an Avengers, an Ocean's Eleven, an Abracadabra's, and you don't wind up with some, like the Benchwarmers, you know, Heater, Schneider, the other guy, Swarston.

Yeah, a bunch of great tastes that taste great together. Me, you know, I love that you got to sports because I do think of it like a sports team. I'm so into soccer. I'm smart. So you need the kicker. The kicking guy. Football. You got to have the strong guy.

You're going to need a runner or some kind of, yeah, some kind of, did I say strong man? I think you did. And a referee. So we're supposed to pick the best writer in our minds. Can you go TV and film? Yeah. And we're drafting based on need. So once we have somebody on the team, then we don't need someone with a similar skill set. You don't need two kickers.

Yes. On the soccer team. You can go TV or film. You can go living or dead. There's only one ball. What? You can go TV or film and living or dead. TV or film, living or dead. Okay. And also, let's not forget Kevin Smith. Kevin Smith. Okay. So what is that then Kevin Smith. And also, let's not forget book. Kevin Smith. Kevin Smith. Kevin Smith. Okay. So what is that? Kevin Smith. What is that fulfilling for us? So what's off? Well, I mean, he can do it all.

What do we have? You know him best from his foul-mouthed indie comedies, Bait on a Shoestring Budget. I take him all the way down to his new forays into horror and suspense with Tusk about a man who is fused with a walrus. Yeah. And discovering marijuana at age 43. I think that helped him immensely. Helped him focus, helped him really get in the pocket. Not just discovering, but making it his primary personality. Yes.

All that and the long shorts. And the hockey jersey. Yes. Tusk, for my money, was the best Man Walrus movie of that year. Second best. Top two. Wow. I hate to take everybody's number one.

Well, yeah. A lot of my hockey jersey guys are off the table now. We wouldn't be where we are in this business if we weren't competitive. And so getting socked in the jaw where you come out with maybe the best writer on the table, and I go like, well, now I'm scrambling because that was my pick. Shakespeare in jean shorts. I mean, now that he's gone, now that Kevin Smith's off the table, I wasn't going to do this this early, but Hayes' story about Ruthie brought me back to someone who I'm going to bump up, let's say. But I think for my money, tech money is the guy who I want in there spinning stories.

Yeah, and what does he bring to the table specifically for you? Obviously, he's a storyteller, but is there something about his energy? No, it's just the storytelling. He did, I think, three or four years at Pixar just cranking with those guys. He's a guy that is just going to be relentless about, what does this act break? Does this make sense? We can beat it. You've seen the 22 Rules of Storytelling by Pixar? Well, have I seen it?

Have you read it? I've memorized it. Coincidences that get your character into trouble are fine. Coincidences that get your character out of trouble, Tech's going to beat that ass. You know what I mean?

And he did beat me up. I hate to be a babe in the woods here. I don't know who this man is that we're talking about. That's the thing about a lot of these Pixar guys. They don't get so much credit because they're part of a larger machine. The gentleman's name is Tech Money. That's a sort of extended name, yeah.

His original name was Tech. He was a cast member on Real World turned MTV DJ and then gradually. Ruthie had Lyme disease? No, no, no.ie had Lyme disease? No, no, no. Irene had Lyme disease. Oh, then I don't. Steven slapped Irene. Ruthie jumped in the pool naked.

She was an alcoholic. Okay, yeah. Then I do know who he is. I just must have forgotten. And Amaya and Tech and Colin. He was the breakout kind of storyteller character. Sure. That's a good pick.

kind of storyteller character. Sure. That's a good pick. What I was thinking, sometimes you draft people that have been involved with shows that maybe you take some of that magic for your own show. If we could get any of what The Simpsons has had going for so long for this room, so we take somebody that's been involved there,

I wonder if we could get wade boggs who was at that episode of curse word you're going in front homer is friends with all the yeah all the baseball guys uh if if he would be a good presence in the show he also famously would drink uh 70 beers on every cross-country flight. I mean, that a little bit steps on mine. I was going to take Dragan Bender. Oh, okay. I agree. New power forward for the Phoenix Suns.

Yeah, I think maybe that space is filled. Yeah, so I guess what I have to do now is pivot, and that's always welcome. And I think who I would probably take is Pizazz, who I think was the rival of Jem on Jem and the Holograms. Her band was in many ways more popular. Yeah. But also didn't have the same trick with the earrings with Synergy.

Guy's elephant in the room here. Can she write? Do we know if she can write? Because we're assembling a pretty heavy non-writer group. Somebody's going to be in charge of music. I mean – But the original goal was writers. I went with a writer, and then we had three people with no ties to writing at all.

That's what my concern is. Have you ever been assembling a scene? And I'm asking this question even though I hope I know the answer. Have you ever been assembling a scene and go, this doesn't work, and you put the right song underneath it, and all of a sudden it's funny and cool? Sure. All right, good point. Well, that's what pizzazz is bringing to the table.

Welcome aboard. And I also want people that have lived their lives. I don't want people that only know. I got to say dream team, though, even if we're getting a musician, living or dead. I don't know that I lean towards pizzazz for that music supervisor role. Well, what we know Pizazz has is experience. I don't know that we do know that.

We're pretty sure. We think she was probably Jim's rival, maybe, on that show. What we really know about her is that she had some frustrations in the business that she maybe wasn't the biggest star in the world.

That she knows how it feels to get burned, to get upstaged by Jem, whose original name was Jerrica. Why don't we get Jem? Because Jem was so successful. The pizzazz is in Jem's shadow. Who's a better coach? Michael Jordan or Steve Kerr? Steve Kerr? Probably.

I haven't seen Jordan coach. But the point is, when someone achieves the heights that Jem achieved, they don't need to know how to teach it. They don't need to know how to instruct. They don't know what goes into putting it together because it just comes naturally to them. They can just do it. Take me as a writer.

I'm so funny, naturally. It's hard for me to tell someone how to do it. But you get like an engineer, Brett, he probably could give some pretty good instructions because he's been trying for so long to get anything going. He's possessed. I hope. He's had to study the rules so closely,

hoping that eventually. He's looking to study the rules so closely, hoping that eventually... He's looking for a loophole. Yeah. Look, round two, I'm going to try to go ahead and steer it to at least a second rider. Wait, I just want to make clear. Is this a snake draft?

I think it might be a snake draft. It's a snake draft, so I got to go twice, and then we come back around? Oh, okay. Also, Pat, just FYI, Tech Money did write WALL-E. So we're not dealing with a...

Well, then say that. I said he worked at Pixar for three years. I didn't know in what capacity. Sorry, he wrote WALL-E. He didn't get credited for it. Okay. We know how that works. I didn't know.

We know how that works. I ran Arrested Development and Freaks and Geeks. So just, again, now we have Techne, Pizazz, an animator. You're being obtuse. A little bit obtuse. Alright, let's take it back around. Seems willful. Let's take it back around. Willfully obtuse.

Okay, he wants someone who has written. Pat wants a writer so bad I don't want to see his head pop off. Let me just think for one second. I have to ignore what my original pick was, Mila Kunis, and I have to get a writer. Mila Kunis is closer.

She's in the entertainment. No, no, no. We'll do it your way. I'll probably take Kelly Oxford. You know what I mean? Friggin, Everything's Perfect When You're a Liar is a book. Well, honestly, if you have Kelly Oxford, you have her kids.

Okay? And her kids are constantly saying these unbelievable bon mots. And that's bringing in, what are we talking, 120k eyeballs? Yes. Immediately. Socials. Instant.

Or off the... Instant. No, you're tracking off the charts. And so, I would love Kelly Oxford, if only for she can show up in the room every day and say, like, guys, this morning, my kid was like, hey, this morning my kid was like, hey, this waffle looks like Donald Trump's hair.

Yeah. And so then we can, if we're allowed to use the stuff that her kids. That's to say nothing from, you know, stories from the set of Aloha. So it's like we're getting so many different elements with just one pick. She's a writer. Yeah, she's not just a writer. Oh, she's in it. I saw Aloha.

Yeah, well, then you've seen my girl. Pick number five. I was already planning on watching it again, so I guess I'll look for her next time. Can I just say I love what a diverse room we're putting together. We have two ladies in the room. I think that's probably good. We have Tech, of course, who's a minority president.

Yeah, who knows what he is. I think to round it out, it would be great to have a strong Italian character. Something like Cousin Vinny. I think Cousin Vinny would be. That could really help us. Would be great for this room. What I love about Cousin Vinny is he calls you on your bullshit. Yes.

He's not somebody who is going to see a magic show, no offense to abracadabras, and not say how the trick worked. I remember this from a speech in the movie. Now you know that Cousin Vinny is a fictitious character. You must know that. Yes, but that's what makes him so good at writing because he knows

what it's a spoiler. We're going to call an agency and say, hey, get us Cousin Vinny? I never thought I'd be on Brett's side. Please don't spoil the movie. Please don't spoil it. It came out 24 years ago. We think.

To the day. Some of us are catching up. But, you know, Sean's claimed that Cousin Vinny. He's binging it. Brett's binging. Binging the movies right now. Sean says Cousin Vinny would be a great hire because he calls people on their bullshit. Yeah.

Go with the Marissa Tomei character. She calls people on their bullshit. Like I said, it's not a car show. And we're a little saturated with. She's also a woman. That's what I'm saying. She knows cars. That's what I'm saying.

We're kind of full up. She's beautiful. Easy on the eyes. We've got. Or go with an actual person or a writer. You pig. Jesus Christ. Beautiful.

Easy on the eyes. We've got – That's how we're hiring? Easy on the eyes? And also you didn't like – Why'd you pick Kelly Oxford? Because she's ugly? You didn't like pizzazz?

No. You think pizzazz is – I picked her because she had a book. New York Times bestseller. International bestseller. Canada counts, you fucker. All right. Sorry I got so mad. Times bestseller, international bestseller, Canada counts, you fucker. Sorry I got so mad.

That's why I liked her as a pick. She's written. Yeah, well, that's why I picked her too, and I said that at the time. So we've got Kevin Smith, Tech Money, Wade Boggs, Pizazz, Kelly Oxford, Cousin Vinny. I mean, this isn't a good group for going to dinner, let alone running a television show. You don't want to go to dinner with Cousin Vinny and Pizazz? I'm sorry, Pat, but that is just untrue. What if Cousin Vinny gets grits? You don't want to see Cousin Vinny talk about the grits?

Yeah, he doesn't eat NSYNC grits. No self-respecting Southerner would. Kevin, can I ask you to just think through your pick for 10 seconds before spitting something out? Okay. just think through your pick for 10 seconds before spitting something out? Absolutely. Give me a second. Okay. Just think about the day-to-day in the room with an alcoholic baseball player

and an animated pink-haired songstress. This may step on some toes, but speaking to what you have just brought up, Pat, I've got to go with the best writer I know. It's a guy by the name of Dominic Dierkes. Okay. There we go. And he had a writing partner for a long time. Carried him.

Carried him. But the guy's got it all. Yeah. He's a writer and a performer and a human being who you'd want to have dinner with. Now, when you say carried him, do you mean set him on fire through telekinesis? I think you know. Do you mean dramatically got his period in the opening scene?

I think you know I don't mean that. Okay. It's for the audience. What's he doing? Is he available? What's he doing now? Dom? Yeah.

He's probably busy. I just, you know. Don't you have him doing some stuff? Check the Hollywood Reporter. Yeah, I got him working on some stuff. Yeah, like what's going on with him? Carrying my jockstrap. Finally earned the right.

Do you mean getting your period in the shower in your jockstrap? Busy carrying my jockstrap. No, that's a ridiculous question. Yeah. I thought so as well. Well, Pat, you get to pick now, so. Well, I'm going to take America's sweetheart, Woody Allen. He's a writer.

Yeah. You know, he's one of those guys who looks just as natural with a Dame Judi Dench or a Dakota Fanning on his arm. We've gotten in trouble on this show before for touching on Woody Allen. Obviously, there's some people very upset about some controversy around him having to do with – Touching on. Yes. Yes. Touching on. Yes, yes, touching on. And people think he's too old to write. You know, I see a lot of articles about his age, and in the headline there will often be a much younger age mentioned,

and I assume the article is saying that, like, the younger age is the one you should be if you're going to write direct. I haven't read the articles just because my phone's really buggy. But, you know, I don't think that's fair. I think at any age, if you've got the chops, then chop it on up. Hashtag karate. Okay, he's in. You get to pick twice now because it's a snake draft.

So everything you complained about before now has come back to benefit you. Okay, thanks. Why don't we go 20 Tarantines? Okay. Who else has changed the game of writing more than QT? Okay. And so now I'm sort of starting to get a picture of what you are attracted to as well. To people who've written stuff.

No, I mean like physically. People with a voice. Since I know that you care about your writers being like hot, people that you think are hot. Yeah, that's your main thing. And that so far you've picked Kevin Smith, Woody Allen, and Quentin Tarantino. It's just starting to kind of come into view. Yeah, kind of a murderer's row. Yes.

Yeah. Of what you're attracted to. I did want someone who was going to put the N-word in the scripts. I think we all wanted that. Yeah, and that he would fight to say it. Yeah. Talking about writers' hotness, Kevin's always had a great philosophy on writers being hot.

You'll only hire sevens or above. Is that right? That's right. Absolutely. And it's a physical thing, and it's also what they're wearing. I mean, you come into a meeting, and you're a dude, and you don't have super colorful sneakers on. What are you doing?

Why are you in this game? How much skin is enough skin to show in an initial interview? Sure. I mean, for guys, I just want to see what they're working with bicep-wise. Be generous with the biceps. Be generous. I want a tight-fitting shirt to give me a real sense of... Tight shirt, no sleeves.

We can go V, sure. Leave the sleeves at home. Leave the sleeves at home. Go deep as you want on the V. I was told by my agent you like a blousey short. That's absolutely. Yeah, because you have a fan in the room that's kind of like ruffling the shorts a little bit. I wore umbros for my meeting.

I dusted off the old bros. Umbros. I almost didn't get my job because I wore Michael Cera's running shorts from Juno, which I did buy on eBay. Sure. And they were very short and very high, but they didn't really blow open. They were so tight to my skin. And I think what Kevin enjoys is the sort of peekaboo aspect of seeing the fabric wave up in the air rather than just the outline.

Yeah, so much of it is a vibe, you know? A writer's room is built on people vibing each other. I don't care about ideas as much as I care about a presence. Well, and you're building an audience. And if you have an ugly writer's room, then Uggos will watch your show, and that's who will come up to you and say that we like it, we think this is funny. And then that's who's talking to you on the street. Enough people see Uggos talking to you, all of a sudden you're an honorary

Ugo yourself. You know, guys, again, devil's advocate here, they're not going to see the writers. They're going to see the performers on the show. But that's the voice. The experience of the Ugo will bleed through into the script. And this is coming from you. I mean, your number one thing is hotness when you're choosing writers as well. I mean, that's why we're talking about this with Kevin, because he shares his philosophy with you.

Fair enough. I guess we hate most what we are, you know. Sure. Tarantino's got that hot Frankenstein thing going that I like. Woody Allen is in his late 110s, which I respond to. And then, oh, Kevin Smith recently lost 470 pounds. So he's looking better too. Yeah, Woody Allen.

Only put back 225. If you think of him as a man, he looks old. But if you think of him as a praying mantis, he almost looked like a baby. That's probably why they thought of him for ants. That's right. Which did not follow any of Pixar's rules and said, who do the kids like? Woody Allen. When really, I've heard it's the other way around.

Kevin? Agree. So my pick – That was a Bill Maher move. Slide it over real quick. So don't even give him a chance to argue. Just slide it over and then light a joint and have sex with an African-American prostitute. I'm going – I'm moving on to my next pick.

I'm going to go – Don't take Maher because it's in the air. I'm not taking Mar because he's so funny. I'm going to go Laura C.K. And that's Louie's mom. Oh boy. I think in general

having a celebrity's relative on your staff is just... You can pick Louis. I could, but I want the person who writes what Louis says. Who inspired him, yeah. Who inspired him.

Who created Louis. How do you know she's the funny one and not the dad? Pat, how long have you been in this business? I mean, this is an open secret at this point. She's supposed to be the funny one? Yes. I've had her in for Punch-Up, and the way the mind works, watching her. It pisses me off.

It pisses me off. And she's not too hard on the eyes either. We have no restrictions on who we can put on this staff. If Sean were to have said, let's pick a staff of comedians' moms, I don't know that Laura C.K. would have been on my list. No, that whole thing about – You can pick anyone. That whole thing of Louie's about planes being nice.

Yeah. That was her. Yep. The thing about politics being do it right for once please divorcing it's fun to divorce okay jack it off

right feels awesome we've been forgetting that Brett was a showrunner too oh jesus Brett was a showrunner too now Brett, Jesus. Brett was a showrunner too. Now, Brett, why don't we find out a little bit about your shows, and why don't we give you the last pick?

Okay. And then make two or three picks. There was one that was like rock and roll assassins. And then the boy and his gorilla. What? Oh, yeah. That's Harambe? He pitched a Harambe show.

That was way before that. That was originally called Weekend at Harambe. I guess we could talk about this. Harambe. I guess we could talk about this. The way he pitched the show was to like put these two characters together in real life and be like

see this will work. That was like a viral stunt. This is a show he tosses a kid into a gorilla. They were going to form a band and like try to make it in LA. Until the rock and roll assassins come to town. Right. That was going to be it in LA. Until the Rock and Roll Assassins come to town. Right. That was going to be the crossover.

How long did these shows last? I never heard of either one of them. Go ahead, yeah. How long did they last? Yeah. Oh, like a solid while. Yeah. Quick question on Rock and Roll Assassins.

Yeah. Guitar shoots bullets? No. Okay. You got my attention. No, they're shooting instruments. They're assassinating rock and roll as represented by instruments. Ah.

It's so Brett can have the only guitars is kind of the idea. Fantasy. Brett's kind of the idea. Fantasy. Brett's part of the show. He hires the rock and roll assassins to destroy all the other guitars. Not exactly, but it's way more complicated than that. What is it? What is it? Yeah.

It's about... What's it about? Oh, thank you, Kevin. Absolutely. Okay. about. What's it about? Oh, thank you, Kevin.

Absolutely. It's more about rock and roll as an abstract idea. And the assassins are called upon by rock and roll. Take your time. Yeah. I mean, and then they want to rule the world. Take your time. I would actually say speed it up.

Really? Yeah. Okay. I would say get through it a little quicker. Yeah, so I get all the guitars in the world. That is how it is. That sounds very similar to what I. Rock and roll is a relevant art form. That's still music that gets made?

No, I think it's an attitude. Yeah, it's just an attitude. Yeah. And see, it is music. This is how, like, he's just pretending to know about this stuff. He doesn't know that rock and roll is music. Oh, man. I think we should get an animal on the writing team.

Okay, who? Just like a bonobo. A monkey? Because they freaking suck each other's dicks? Yeah. Is that why you want... That's true. They rub genitalia to resolve conflicts.

That's why you want to be on the show? Pervert. And now it makes me... That's even weirder that you would throw a kid... Are you hoping that that's what would happen to the kid with the monkey? Oh, Brett. Now, you guys feel that we submit this list to the studio, and they're cool with every name on it.

Well, budget-wise, it's going to be a little bit of a tough squeeze. Well, you don't pay a monkey, so that's, thank you, Brett. Saves us a little cash right there. You got to pay for its food. You don't pay a monkey, so that's... Thank you, Brett. Saves us a little cash right there. You gotta pay for its food. You don't pay a fictional character or an animated character, so that saves us some money. Gotta pay for their food, though. I don't know that you do, frankly.

I'll draw a casserole and give it to Pizzazz. Vinny eats grits. Yeah, that's true. What does Pizzazz eat? Pizzazz. Oh, God. I mean, one way I think we could save money is if we what does pizzazz eat pizzas oh god I mean one way I think we could save money is if we feed pizzazz some of the dreadlocks from pasta mons

now we're talking I mean I wouldn't mind a bowl of that used wigs the studio's gonna love that crossover are we doing a TV show or a movie by the way so I'm gonna go I'm gonna go too I'm going to go.

I'm going to go, too. Yeah, I have somewhere to be. And I love you guys, and thank you for doing the show. And I love you listeners. Please rate and subscribe. Don't forget to take advantage of all the deals that we've offered you and all our ads. Like us on Facebook. And, you know, we're your friends.

Never forget that. That's why you listen. So everybody, just to your family and everything, just be safe. Bye. Bye. Hollywood Handbook is brought to you by Wolf Cool Productions, a subsidiary of Calvin and Hobbes. Ow, baby. Ow, baby.

That was a HeadGum Podcast.