Hollywood Handbook - The Flagrant Ones #200: Good Talk (with Craig Kilborn)

Episode Date: July 28, 2022

Enjoy this un-paywalled episode of The Flagrant Ones!The Ones celebrate their 200th episode with former SportsCenter announcer, late night host, and Timberwolves super fan Craig Kilborn.We looked at:The Life Gorgeous with Craig KilbornWatch the video recording of this episode here!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is a HeadGum Podcast. episode the link for that is in the description thank you so much and enjoy the show we haven't started yet correct no we started let's call it let's say let's say here let's start right now yeah because this is how you know in your hosting career i don't know why you just didn't do it like this where like everyone is just talking at the beginning of the segment you suddenly know it's bringing it on them that there's a show. Because there are things I might say that it's like innocently to you guys, like, oh, I didn't get my sleep last night. I only had my six hours.

And then I don't want that out there, like, oh, he's whining. That's your out. So I put on a little bit of a little more professional when we start. But, Craig, I had a sleep-related question for you just to check in with your energy level and what i need to bring because i did listen to you on goldie's show oh yeah did are we dealing with valerian root craig or melatonin craig because i know that melatonin craig is a little groggier yeah that's funny thank god neither and i won't be doing that very often i

no i do it maybe three times a year and i did it actually two days before i i talked to those guys i had them on my podcast i might actually re-record it i haven't decided those guys are nice but i'm i got i have pretty good energy today great no i've been feeling good energy i was like jesus if this is melatonin craig i'd hate to see the full bore version have you guys ever taken either valerian root or melatonin I took valerian root last night no way and I woke and I woke up seeing spots man it's too much for me my body can't handle that kind of stuff yeah why would you take it last night you couldn't I mean you couldn't fall asleep or I was yeah I was having a little

trouble falling asleep this whole week i said i got to bed a little earlier i said let me turn it in is it the uh the excitement of the timberwolves and the rudy gobert trade a lot of people across the country are having trouble sleeping with anticipation for your minnesota timberwall to see the twin there. I mean, you move towns over to the four. I know you're a big Timberwolves fan. What is your opinion on the trade? Do you like it? Do you think they gave up too much?

So am I dealing with basketball aficionados or just casual fans? Or what am I dealing with with you guys? We're three levels of expert. Yeah. Carl's master super level expert. Yeah, everybody loves my team. hayes used to actually write for the celtics true blog yeah okay yeah right and then i of course i'm just still finding my way through this world of hoops so i i've since second grade i've been addicted to the nba i started playing

basketball and i played in college but i always play a little ball what's that you play a little ball i heard you play a little ball oh yeah montana state the basketball power but i i was a poor man's pistol pete the defensive stance hurt my lower back but i was very creative too yeah yeah i was creative offensively no two no two shots were the same no i i i shot a three-pointer and scooped shots. Yeah, no, I was kidding. It's like I'm ambidextrous, or as the guy from NC State said, amphibious, which is the old joke. But no, I could play.

But as far as the NBA, I love the NBA. And now as I'm older, I don't watch all the other games, but I watch all 82 games of the Timberwolves. And it's hard to get guys up there. They're fortunate to get KG. Small market teams are difficult to get talent, and then when it's the coldest market in the NBA, which Minnesota

is, it makes it very difficult to get free agents up there. Thank God KG wanted to stay. Kevin Love did not. Stephon Marvey did not. Looks like Cat wants to stay. Hopefully Anthony Edwards does. But we were, the Wolves were talking about a year and a half ago, two years ago, to get somebody to play with Cat in the front court,

maybe Miles Turner from the Pacers. And then we heard about Clint Capella. Because as you know, Anthony Davis with the Lakers, he gets to play power forward. He gets to play Dwight Howard and JaVale McGee. So we didn't think Rudy Gobert was available. I will not defend the package we gave up. It was excessive, in my opinion.

My joke is, which if you know the NBA, but it's the Wolves, excuse me. How can Danny Ainge make this trade and not get Jaden McDaniels? He's a, he's, he's the guy that they want. He's a young, talented player, you know, Scottie Pippen-Light, but he's, so we kept our core group uh didn't mind

getting rid of patrick beverly or malik beasley and i i'm excited to see uh how rudy works with cat i think it's going to be either good or very good and and we were bad on defense and when we lost to memphis in the playoffs brandon clark was offensive rebounding like a madman yeah and and we we were one of the worst rebounding teams cat can't do it alone so i'm i'm excited i'm i i mean they could be three future hall of famers actually cat gobert and ant we don't know but it's a lot of talent so i'm excited long answer but i'm excited no what do you want yeah well i i just want to say anthony edwards is probably the most exciting young player

to me right now and his performance in adam sandler's hustle was otherworldly um uh but i but the package was big and i thought why did they give up so many picks and the comment i did see from a timberwolves fan that resonated with me was oh no we won't be able to draft jared culver again next year and i thought yeah i guess when you look at it that way i don't know um if other teams have made as many mistakes as we have with the picks. The famous one is Johnny Flynn. The number ones, Johnny Flynn. The number ones have gone pretty well compared to other franchises. But yeah, Johnny Flynn was so dope in college.

What's that? He was so dope as Syracuse, though. I know. And apparently in the NBA, he hurt his hip. And he was never the same player. And I'm always optimistic at the beginning. Apparently in the NBA, he hurt his hip and he was never the same player. And I'm always optimistic at the beginning, but we took Chris Dunn over Jamal Murray. Yep.

Culver wasn't, you know, it wasn't very good. Obviously, who else? They're just different ones. Rashad McCants, all these guys, but I'd have to look at the draft to see. Wesley Johnson, we took all these guys and it's just, and we also, I think they want, they, they drafted for defense on a few of those where it was like, I feel like Culver was supposed to be a good defender and Chris Dunn was supposed to be a higher level defender than Murray or healed who came, who went after him. Um, a Koji, you know, not that there were necessarily great players available in those spots but it feels like they were just trying to build up their defense which finally they can do

with gobert craig let me ask you this though what is what is your what do you think anthony's ceiling is well nationally everyone like i talked to ryan rossillo and some of these other guys, everyone's obsessed with Anthony Edwards on the national level. And I watch every game, and he's not consistent yet, but I can't tell. To answer your question specifically, none of us know,

because his rookie year, he was supposed to be very raw he handles the ball really well no one talks about his ball handling he can really dribble gotta be more of a pure shooter he's you know better shooter he works on he's streaky he makes these threes but his ability to get to the rim in the fourth quarter and crowd is kind of ridiculous so they were comparing him to duane wade which is high praise because I think Dwayne Wade is unbelievable. But I don't know what his ceiling is, but everyone thinks he's going to be pretty special. I will say, so I watched every game as a rookie, and then I watched every game this year.

But he had two games back-to-back. He had the play-in game with the Clippers. He ate us up. And then he had the first game in memphis when we won and there were some guys in the wolves organization i know and i said we don't know how good this guy could be like the biggest games ever that he played in the first two big games he it was unreal then he came down to earth a little bit in the memphis series but i can't tell he's definitely really really good is he going to be better than donovan mitchell i hope so you know he sort of improved i would think basically exactly the way

you'd want between his age like 19 and 20 seasons right his usage went up and his shooting got he went up it went up i just uh are times, it's kind of weird, where Coach Finch, who we all love, always tells him to go downhill, attack, attack, attack. Don't settle. And he settles for three-pointers, but he makes some of them. I mean, it's weird. Sometimes they look like bad shots.

But my thing is, hey, Coach, it wears him out to drive all the time. I mean, it just wears a guy out sure yep and i remember there was this game i actually might have chris finch on the show and i want to ask him about this because in the wolves organization everyone loves chris finch he's like the most popular guy he just got an extension we call him finchy and they said he was an offensive savant with his uh play calling calling and his offensive flow and everything. There was a game two years ago where Cat and Ant scored over 40.

It was at Phoenix. And in the fourth quarter, we saw something. Whoa, where did this come from? Cat was in the high post, and they had Ant run down and post up, like back-to-back plays, like post up. I was like, oh, my God, keep posting his ass up. This is fun. You know, it doesn't wear you out as much.

But I haven't seen that. And I want to ask him, Finch, he'll probably say, it just depends on the matchups. But for whatever reason, he ran Anthony Edwards down in the post and he doesn't have to spend all that energy dancing on the perimeter, you know? He's so good. I think his ceiling is through the roof. He's my favorite

young guy like out of all like the new generation once my goat lebron retires and you know whatever happens with huh what what about josh giddy does that's your goat giddy i was kidding i was just kidding thank you i just i mean he's this passer who doesn't shoot very well, but he's stylish. I think he's from Australia, right? Australia, yeah. He's fun. He's fun, right? I'm excited to see him get tangled up because they're the dirtiest players.

Who's that? Australia. Yeah, we have a very anti-Australian. Well, what's his nose? The guy from the Cavs. Delvino. He was dirty. Oh Vino. Yeah. He was dirty.

Oh, boy. Yeah, and Joe Ingles. Joe Ingles, an absolute menace to society. I didn't see him put in front of a firing squad. I didn't know that Joe Ingles was dirty, but I know that he and Paul George went at it. But I didn't see away from the ball. I just know he would loft that lefty three with the high arc so he was grabbing and pulling and stuff or what oh my gosh was he yeah i think he had a knife

out there wow uh i'm surprised carl that you've let this is craig slide for this long on saying that he doesn't mind giving up patrick beverly carl's a patrick beverly super fan huge patrick beverly fan i don't know i don't know why you don't mind giving up pat Beverly. Carl's a Patrick Beverly super fan. Huge Patrick Beverly fan. I don't know why you don't mind giving up Patrick Beverly. After he single-handedly turned the culture around. He turned the culture around in Minnesota. He was the reason that y'all went as far as you did last year. Maybe I can help.

Go ahead. Help me, Craig. Doc Rivers says, Pat, Beverly is crazy. He certainly played very well with the wolves and there is a concern that we we're gonna miss any i'm trying to think on the roster now who is gonna be that guy and i don't know if we have that guy you don't and and to make matters worse you added rudy gobert who is soft as melted marshmallow yeah well a lot of people don't like the frenchman you know we'll see what happens uh there's a guy named larry miller who used to own the utah jazz and he's now deceased and he said i don't want to win a championship with dennis rodman so i'm not i'm a

fan i'm not greedy i'm a fan. I'm not greedy. I'm not even, the championship, if you say, you know, I mean, I did this with the Vikings. There were certain quarterbacks. We never won a Super Bowl, the Vikings. We were 0-4 in the Super Bowl. We've had a lot of different quarterbacks. Sometimes I say, I don't want to win with this guy. Of course, we're not winning with that guy, but I'm particular.

So Patrick Beverly, to me, is too crazy, too confrontational. I don't like how he treats Chris Paul, who I love. And I just think he's too undisciplined. Now, obviously he caused – he's going to – what if he undercuts my man Ant this year because he just does that crazy stuff, what he did to Westbrook, and I can't stand Westbrook. But when he gets up in the – he's too crazy for me, so I don't like him. You don't like my favorite guys.

There are a lot of guys I like. We should talk about, I think I'm the same age as you guys. I look the same. Growing up, who do you think my favorite player was? I grew up in the 70s and the 80s. Who do you think my favorite player was? Maybe I should bow out because I think I know. Oh, okay.

If you're the same age as me, your favorite player was Kenyon Martin. Growing up, this guy, everyone thinks it was Larry Bird, and it wasn't Larry Bird. No, thank God. It was not Larry Bird. So this guy, I could do this, and you'd figure out who it is but how how old are you guys were you guys around in the 70s or not i'm gonna i'm gonna no but i'm gonna guess was it frazier you heard me say that the other day it was initially when i started

following back he did not he didn't hear okay i know that it was right wait until you found dr j dr j it was not it was dr j so what my dad was a knicks fan we moved to minnesota my dad's from new york when i started playing basketball and following it walt clyde frazier was my favorite player before i discovered dr j and for those of you who don't know walt clyde frazier they named the puma clydes he wore pumas and they named the sneakers after him the clyde you know clyde frazier puma clydes oh yes that's the man on the front of the box of the dye that i use for my beard oh really yeah is that just for men just for that oh he oh yeah yeah oh yeah he's done that for so clyde had a book he had a he would he had he showed no emotion they called him clyde because

the movie bonnie and and Clyde came out, and he was wearing the same wide-brim hats. Wow. And he had this book called Rockin' Steady, A Guide to Basketball and Cool. And I got the book when I was a kid, and I read it. And he talked about the opponents he played. He talked about not showing emotion.

Then he talked about his wardrobe. He named his suits, his leather stuff, his leather pants. And then he had these two belts. And one of the belts was called an orgy, an orgy belt. I'm eight years old when I have this book. An orgy belt. It's a white belt.

It's a white belt with silhouettes. And it's, it's, it's like a dark brown and tan, a woman and a man intertwined silhouettes and it's it's it's like uh dark brown and tan a woman and a man intertwined silhouettes around the belt like beautiful intertwined lovemaking orgy belt hey mom clyde clyde frazier has an orgy belt i want an orgy belt i want to wear one to school no son we're not doing that so anyways that was a real book called Rockin' Steady, Clyde Frazier. I've got a Dr. J story that won't be interesting to anyone else, but my parents went to college with Dr. J. University of Massachusetts.

That's right. They were there at the same time. And I believe the story goes that my mom was working at the cafeteria and dr j came through and got his food and then he scribbled a little something on a napkin and slid across the counter to the redhead scooping the mashed potatoes oh i like that yeah have you guys ever heard and that far what? University of Massachusetts. Remember that or not? No.

Julius Erb, the Dave Zinkoff, the PA for the Sixers. He was one of the best. Oh, okay. He did the introductions, and he was the PA announcer at the Spectrum in Philadelphia. And at far what? Julius Erb. It was very colorful. What if we lost think about frazier

guys like that who were identical who could write a book about being cool right and everyone's like yeah i want that 100 let me get that book yeah i want to be cool as well and then like through the successive generations there were guys that were associated with a certain style. I think Magic was that for a lot of people. Other players through the 80s. All the way to Iverson, I think, as being kind of like the last one that like, okay, this is dictating how people dress

and associated with a culture within the league. We don't have anyone like that anymore. Speaking of cool, I forgot to say something. And then I'm going to comment on Allen Iverson. Speaking of cool, you know what's cool, young people? Kregers has a new podcast called The Life Gorgeous. And I forgot to say it at the top. It's on a YouTube.

I have a YouTube channel. I just got a YouTube channel. It's the Craig Kilborn Life Gorgeous podcast. We have a bunch of people on and you'll enjoy it and it's out now you're yeah so i forgot to say that and that's what's cool um i know i wasn't an iverson fan he carried the ball a lot i'm trying to think there are guys that are controversial players i mean they're guys that i couldn't stand and this is when i was growing up and they're guys that i loved i'm trying to oh i like george gervin that's before your time very smooth uh i did like the celtics i like paul pierce a lot and i love kg paul pierce

let me think i don't like westbrook i don't like harden he monopolized the ball you know westbrook it's interesting you you bring him up after hayes's uh observation because i do think he is someone who is saying he's the closest i am you know dictating like i'm i'm passionate about fashion i'm trying to do this thing but i feel like the eras previously part of the reason you don't feel like there's anyone that impactful anymore hayes is because of social media and the access that haters have to influence what the perception of a player is how brutal would it have been i think it's the hater walt frazier like post fits and and just have an army of trolls say it looks busted or whatever.

Yeah, they would just have to lean over to their friend and say it before. Yeah, Westbrook, I'm talking about his game I didn't like. Sure. Of course. And by the way, everyone now is into fashion in the NBA. A lot of them have stylists. In the 70s, Clyde was, it was different.

Yes. And when the Knicks won the championship, they won a couple. They won 69, the first one in 69. They said basketball, NBA is going to be the sport of the 70s. That's what they said after that because Madison Square Garden was rocking. I think it's the first time they chanted defense at a game. And when they said it was going to be the sport of the 70s, later they said they were a decade off.

It was a sport of the 80s. Magic, Larry, and then Michael. And then it blew up. But Jordan did the long shorts and all this stuff. But I was saying, I know you're saying, I think there's so many influencers now in the NBA. Because everyone is doing their thing and blah, blah, the tattoos and the ink and the thing. But I miss Larry. I miss Larry Legend.

Craig, I don't want to forget to ask you about your lamp that i see in the back of the frame um thank you uh it it it's beautiful thank you um it's very similar to lamps that are featured at the prince which is a bar slash restaurant in koreatown um is it the same it's a different one so um it's a conchista door lamp it's a very pricey obvious for him but uh i've been to the prince sure you guys do you guys go there i've been inside it you know the two dollar parking the show new girl uh their local hangout bar pilot was filmed inside the prince then they rebuilt it later okay um as a set so a lot of people will know what it looks like even if they've never been to la they used it it's a it's a very cool interior i like old i like old architecture and and i

like i like to have drinks in in places like that like the polo lounge i used to go to the uh chateau marmont and stuff the prince is actually in one of my top five movies chinatown there's a scene with faye dunaway and jack nicholson in the prince i went about a year ago for the first time ever crowded it was late crowded probably need to be vacuumed oh yeah without hurting anyone's feelings the food was god awful you got it's a big menu yeah yeah yeah those maybe they're doing too many things yeah oh my god it was awful i mean i did you check out the lamps no i just i saw all the red and i just liked it but i did not see i the lamps don't jump out this is this is kind of a unique one uh with the micah shade but

the conquistador is yeah it's i've had a long time craig have you read the big goodbye no i believe i part i saw part of the movie it was the movie with elliot ghoul well oh sorry that's the long goodbye the big goodbye is a more recent uh book about the making of chinatown oh actually heavily features interviews with a friend of yours mr robert evans yeah okay so i heard about that a few years ago it's supposed to be riveting right terrific book yeah i'm just about to finish it actually i've got i've only got i've only got like 20 pages left but um uh absolutely loved it the stories of the writing and the way that Polanski changed the script and the whole production process, the Dunaway

and Nicholson stories from the set, it's really, really good. You've heard me tell my, there are a couple of Evan's stories. One I can't tell, but one I can, but I've told it a few times. Have you heard the one about having dinner with him? Have you heard that? I did that on a couple of podcasts. I don't know that one.

We're happy to claim it as an exclusive. i'll make it quick so i used to have uh dinner with him uh we'd go to the palm or spago and he'd bring i was with my then girlfriend and he had a girlfriend and we'd go and after at the end of dinner he'd look at me and you get you guys want anything else you want anything else no we're fine let's go let just go. And we'd walk out without paying. He'd walk out without paying because they would send him the bill. They would send a bill to him at these restaurants. And at Spago, the young waiter freaked out. And Wolfgang goes, it's okay.

It's okay. And the rumor was that the bill would go to Sumner Redstone, that he would cover it because Bob made so much money for Paramount with The Godfather. So that was kind of, it was very cathartic just to walk out of the restaurant without paying. Then just know someone will get it. Yeah.

And I'll never hear about this again. No one will ever mention it to me. That's cool. And to get stopped by a young waiter and say, oh no you're mistaken yeah what yeah what i'm doing is correct me just standing up and walking away from a table without even seeing the check and what you're doing is wrong that's a special feeling i bet i had a similar experience last night at a restaurant where i'm leaving and uh someone the bus boy is kind of like making eye

contact with me as i go and i'm like oh this must be a fan let's like you know let's let the whole conversation i'll give my time to this guy and he goes has anyone ever told you you look like the guy who owns virgin airlines oh yeah yeah we're just building to it and i was like don't tell me this that's my way out i've just had a nice no the answer is no that's crazy why have i never thought about that because you always wear light blue button-ups too is that what he wear richard branson you'll see Branson in those when he's a guest shark on Shark Tank I was wearing that last night are you wearing one right now?

oh yeah it's 7 in the morning I dressed up you gotta put some buttons on Craig that's a big wave in your hair it's the headphones it takes hours three point Craig. You have a big wave in your hair. It's huge. Thanks. Huge wave. It's the headphones they're creating.

It takes hours. Yeah. Three-point contest with Steve Kerr. Mm-hmm. You airballed the first one. Didn't hit it in the first rack. And then. Six for nine after that.

Got that wet ball after that. Yeah. After the first rack, I went six for nine. A couple things. These are, and I like to teach, these are reasons, not excuses, reasons I struggled on the first rack. I wasn't supposed to shoot that day. I was supposed to referee Kenny Smith versus Steve Ker uh versus steve kerr i went oh wow i had a long night i had vodka i had vodka in my system i woke up i said stiff i said god i'm so

glad i don't have to play anymore hey craig kenny smith can't make it you got to go against steve kerr okay i'm ready i'm ready so i go there and i and i warm up a little bit steve kerr is like whoa i might be in trouble because i'm a shooter i got i could shoot you know downtown freddie brown mark price i could shoot uh best part of my game is by passing but we don't we won't have time for that a lot of no looks eyes in the back of the head larry legend boom yeah first shot i take i'm excited i say larry and i airball it and then i and then i uh then i i get warm and afterwards i i've told this before but afterwards you know i lose the nba wanted me to lose anyways they didn't want me to beat steve kerr they didn't want that but he said to me steve kerr says have you ever practiced pulling pulling the ball off

the rack pulling it off and bringing it here i said no i've never and of course he goes well you got to get used to that first you got to get used to that i said well it's a bad pass if the ball is way over here and you're pulling it back to your body i'm not it's a bad pass so i wasn't used to pulling it off a rack it was a late night but once i got warm six for nine not too bad i don't know should they change the three-point contest so that it's more of a catch and shoot motion where someone is firing the ball to the shooter like a home run derby i'm going to say no because there'll be some it's you're you're adding a variable you're adding a variable and there'll be a bad pass or someone will jam a finger or something. And I think these guys are now used to it.

They shoot pretty well. Just because I struggled. It's no fun anymore. It's too easy now. I think that would be a great variable to add. I like it more than dunk contests because Cat won, man. Cat won the three-point contest. What a feathery.

He really was into it, too. I mean, sometimes you don't know if they really he really wanted to win yeah what is it with i i've noticed this i've talked to people so nationally everyone loves anthony edwards everyone has a problem with cat why do you why does everyone have a problem with cat i'll tell you body language yeah he whines he whines more than a colicky baby he he's kind of got bad posture he slunches he slunches he's he's he's really tall and his shoulders kind of slump i say this is someone with bad posture and slumping shoulders but i watched him we went to summer league right after he was drafted and i and i watched him up close and I guess it's summer league,

you know, you don't have to really care, but it was his first time playing, you know, as an NBA player with the Timberwolves Jersey on. And he just, I mean, he just kind of had his shoulder slumped and he shuffled around.

It just seemed like he didn't give a shit. And then I went to see another current Timberwolves player. D'Ang russell has not borne out to be the star people thought he would be but i'll tell you he was he was fired up yeah he was excited and he was and he was putting on a show for everyone and i thought well at least this guy cares and i you know, obviously, Cat, incredible high-level player, is in the NBA putting up huge numbers. But it doesn't – I don't know what it is. His face, his posture, you don't feel the passion. Maybe it's not fair, but it doesn't –

Well, it's interesting. I've never heard the posture thing about Cat, but I know people are irritated with Cat, and I love him. He's definitely quirky, quirky personality. Craig, let's go back to the playing game. Let's think about, I know you watched that whole game just as I did. We shut Cat down. That was the game plan. The problem was- That was the number one thing. You got to shut this guy down because he's unbelievable. And you can take a player out. I saw dame dollar a couple years ago dominate in

the playoffs and then play the warriors and they just took him out of the series double team him trap him you can do that you can do that but the problem is we didn't have we didn't have an answer for anthony and i had a great shooting game and now guess who had the best game in that game for d'angelo at 29 points yeah he'saky, and he played well. He could go off, yeah. But my point is, when you watched Cat during that game, as he's being shut down defensively, it's like he was like, I'm not getting my way. He complained about, he would miss an open layup

that nobody was even guarding him on, that he would just miss the layup and then immediately run to the ref and complain about it. And's like hey man don't give up on your team even though like find another way to be successful grab a rebound for a change do something else he wasn't doing anything else and i think that's the attitude that people don't like about him is that he completely he gets shut down and he completely gave up he gave up after the middle of the second quarter okay so, so there is something that I, obviously Jimmy Butler didn't like him.

Let me just say something. I'm stunned. My favorite stat in the NBA is field goal percentage. His first three years, he shoots 54%. His jump hook down low is automatic. His three-pointer, he's just unreal. Now, he's definitely way too animated. He's a whiner.

We're all concerned about his foul trouble. He does things where I was at games three and four against Memphis, and right in front of me, he reached up to get a rebound with his right hand. His left hand, he pulled the guy on the hip, and they called a foul. And I think he was like, he probably thought he was being sneaky where no one could see it. Everyone in Minnesota, everyone in Minnesota is concerned about his fouling and his whining. Yeah.

Okay. But I didn't know. I thought it was some guys are like, cause no big can guard him. You see what, what Tyron Lue, tyron lew did was he he usually have a power forward like when they played utah gobert can't guard him so they have a power forward then they have gobert come over double team yokich can't guard him and beat can't

guard him he's too quick but i understand where he bothers, and I thought it was more the personality or something. But there is something funny where Chris Finch says, he came up with this term himself, so Cat drives a lot. He'll drive a lot and fall down, dunk or score, maybe late in. But he goes flailing in his body, like he's flailing. And he, whoa, to the ref. And Finchie said, know cat's got what was stray voltage we never heard this what stray voltage he's got some stray voltage and everyone in minnesota the local media we were all laughing and my friends were laughing that finchie came

up with this kind of kind of like making fun of cat but uh yeah people have a problem with i heard posture you're 100 right about the whining i just think the guy i saw him score 60 at san antonio this he doesn't get his uh his this is the greatest shooting shooting big man of all time are you serious or not he says i'm a'm 100% serious. Don't talk to me about Dirk. Dirk. Half as many attempts per game with a lower percent. I mean, the game changes, obviously. It makes sense.

If Dirk played in this era, maybe there'd be a conversation. I was just looking up downtown Freddie Brown. Do you know how the most threes he hit in a season? No. 39. Is that right? Yes. You just looked it up that right yes you just looked it up yeah i just looked it up steve kerr had whatever like 500 well larry bird larry bird said he never even practiced three pointers he's i never practiced it now that's all they do but these guys would have i'm sure

like dominate like in the evolution of the game right i would say cat you know i thought he was self proclaimed the best shooting big man of all time and the problem is i've yeah i've heard about dirk and you're right about the percentages i don't know is kevin durant considered a big man i don't know no he's considered yeah that's a good that's it yeah that's interesting he's he lies about his height uh so that so he doesn't get considered a big man. Kevin Durant walks around saying he's 6'1". He says he's 5'11". Now, I will give Kat some bail here in that he's not the only superstar player that behaves this way.

Right. Because Luka Doncic is notorious for Luka. Luka. Oh, my Lord. He's notorious for doing the same thing. I don't understand these guys. Do they not know? It's just so bizarre.

You're on TV. Yeah, they're on TV. When I was at college at Montana State, I was the only Dr. J fan. Everyone else was either Celtic on the basketball team, Celtic or Laker fan. This is was the only Dr. J fan. Everyone else was either Celtic, on the basketball team, Celtic or a Laker fan. This is in the 80s during the Showtime Lakers and the Larry Bird Celtics. And I would do, I always like the different perspectives I'd say to the guys.

So who's the biggest whiner in the NBA? And the Celtics fans would say, are you kidding? Magic and Kareem. Are you kidding? Magic and Kareem. And then the Laker fans would go, McHale and Danny Aingeem are you kidding magic and kareem and then the laker fans would go mikhail and danny ange are you kidding so it is perception is uh entertaining but uh it was definitely

mikhail and danny age though yeah yeah yeah at that time yeah i mean uh no i can't believe luca it's like does he not what is there spoiled rotten yeah you know it's very not appealing because he's such an exciting guy coming in and he still is great to watch but man cat takes way more heat he just he takes way more heat than luca does for the same behavior i would say yeah i'm trying to figure out what it is um you know and people you're right also people don't like rudy gobert for different reasons he's french and People don't like Rudy Gobert for different reasons. He's French and they don't like him. Did you read the... There's a big ESPN

article about some of the fracturing between him and Donovan Mitchell. It's really like the post-game interviews where he'll just do these little digs. Who does the digs? Gobert. Gobert does digs in postgame?

Yeah, he did. During the playoffs this year, he basically said that Donovan wasn't playing defense, which, by the way, he wasn't that wrong. I don't know his personality at all. He did something funny in his press conference with the Wolves. He was very low-key. He gave everyone COVID again? No, with the wolves and he was very low he gave everyone gave everyone again yeah

yeah no no with the timberwolves when he when he went to yeah no that's funny uh yeah i he said no he said uh i'm just trying to think if he if he did any digs he did because you just said he does digs i didn't know he did that but he said no you know we have a you know i'm excited to be here and at some point they asked about how it will work out and he said no i'm sure what i think i'll compliment cat and he'll compliment me and we have a great coach and he did it he says uh he used to always complain about my screens um like he said that like he's a bitch is sitting right next to him but it was really funny he goes but now we're on the same team like he was saying that because he's really he's supposed to be a good screener and i i mean he is he does uh yes he does it's illegal a lot of the time it's very hard but he's a great screener yeah because what he does is he

puts his arms down so they're not out because a lot of times you get called so he puts them down and covers his crotch area with his hands and he just he's so big but um anyway it was a funny moment in the press conference because they then one of the reporters like a couple minutes later said what was wrong with his screens and everyone and finch goes they look like they hurt but they were great you know like it was uh craig you you mentioned uh finch coining the term stray voltage for cat yeah i had a question whether you believe you coined this term moving over a little bit more to your hollywood career um the movie old school you say good talk good talk see was that was that the first occurrence did you invent that

or was that in the culture it's the first time I remember hearing it. And I, and to me, I said, this man is a legend. Did you say create a good talk? Oh, good talk. Not guy code.

Right. Uh, good talk when, yeah. Oh, is guy code, I guess conceivably could have been originated there as well. I think guy code,

I think they both originated in that scene. And I can't remember if i had lived what i had lived in what i'd have to ask todd phillips the director writer uh what was there guy code was definitely in the script i know that yeah doc i don't remember a good talk felt like it could have come from you just you finished destroying this guy in the bathroom good talk proud of you i did proud of you that I did proud of you. That was mine. Proud of you was mine.

But yeah, I can't remember, but people like it. I hear it a lot. Well, it infected the culture. I mean, it became overused ultimately in comedies. You like to trace these things back to their influence and say like, yeah, it worked so well here. No wonder everyone stole it. Yeah.

I actually, the night I was at the Prince, I told him I didn't like the food and we concluded and the guy goes, good talk. And then I left. It was very bizarre, but it happens all the time. That was a callback. And I caught it. Are there NBA players that you guys loathe does anyone here like russell westbrook or not nobody i do he can't shoot he can't shoot i like i i i definitely did and i'm

it's it's it's sad sort of where he's at did you see the um jeremy sokan thing the other day? No. This young Polish player was streaming on Instagram, and they're doing this word association game or something. It's like taboo, where you have to get them to guess the word without saying it. And the guy he's playing with says, Westbrook gets a lot of these. And Sokan said bricks and it was it was triple doubles oh wow and this is all like live forever this like that's funny the place so ken feels terrible

his dog is named russell wow oh my lord in those like in the day like his mvp year when there was like some controversy about, it's just an extremely high usage rate. These are kind of fake numbers. His system is set up for him to get the easy rebounds and things like that. Yeah. I was totally on board. It's like, you do it if it's that.

Yeah. He's getting 20 rebounds. It was out of control and i had a 20 20 20 game when i first started going to games you know i didn't i didn't grow up attending a lot of basketball games when i would go to see the thunder and watch him live just rip down the court like a demon faster with the ball then end to end and just i was like man this is the most exciting athletic person i have ever seen up close like this and i i really loved watching him play i agree like just losing that step athletically has really taken so much of the air out of his game and then his inability, I think, to adjust mentally to that

has made it harder to enjoy. It's a lot of system stuff, too. It's a lot of system stuff. I think he just did not fit with that system last year. And I guarantee you, they take a step this year they're not going to be the same Lakers that they were last year they will be a playoff contender this year I don't know how high up they'll be because the West is completely stacked but the Lakers will be you know in the bottom five of the top ten for sure but like it i i don't believe i'm a big rush fan craig and i i go back to high

school with me i played against him in high school hated him then but watched him at ucla and and have watched his career the whole time and just see see the hate that he gets like when i don't think it's deserving and again just like sean just said the dude had a 20 20 and 20 game that's not easy to do in the National Basketball Association. And the year of triple-doubles that he had, people were like, oh, he's stat-padding, he's doing this, he's doing that. And these people are sitting on their couch at home saying it's crazy. You cannot like somebody in the league,

but to say that they are doing anything less than being insanely talented at their job is crazy. Well, it's similar to Towns in that people focus so much on what they don't like about certain players that they disrespect what they're doing. Let me know when I can weigh in on why I don't like Russell Westbrook. I mean, this guy. Please, right now.

Go ahead. Yeah. One of my favorite players aesthetically is D's duane way one of my absolute favorites absolutely i saw mark jackson on abc a couple years ago when we're doing the play out duane was still playing and he said uh you best two guard of all time michael jordan then kobe i think third is duane wade so i lovewayne Wade. I like his economy of moves. I like how athletic he is. I loathe Westbrook. He can't shoot, but he does something that I find irritating. And Kobe did this, and I was not a Kobe fan. God rest his soul. Plays angry.

I'm going to play. I'm just going to go to the rim. I'm going to go to the rim and I'm so fast. When you say fast with the ball, yeah, Jordan would dribble up. He's not going full speed. He's not out of control. He could go faster dribbling the ball up. So can LeBron is as fast as they get. I'm a huge LeBron fan. I want to transition to my Kobe LeBron thing in a second, but Westbrook can't shoot. He plays angry. I don't like his feel for the game. And he just play, he's just like, there's something you can't shoot. And he shoots 28% on threes and whatever. I just don't like his game. And he gets angry and drives to the rim and he's very athletic. I get it. But I just,

and I don't really care about those stats i know they're definitely impressive i mean i didn't watch this is where i say i don't watch as many games as i used to so i really didn't see dejonte murray play and that he was going to get traded and and i looked at his stats i'm like holy buckets yeah nine and nine rebounds eight assists what 21 whoa this guy they say he's not a great outside shooter. He put up some stats because the wolves almost were going to trade for him. But, uh, I'm glad we did, but, uh, cause we'd have to give up a lot. He's better than D'Angelo. I mean, D'Angelo is a whole nother story. He's very erratic, but, uh, I didn't, I don't like Russell Westbrook,

uh, as a player. Um, and that's, I, I've, I've kind of said why. I think he plays out of control with his crazy athleticism and he can't shoot and he plays angry. Now that transitions to, I'm going to say something. This is an insight that I have. LeBron James is the second greatest player of all time. If I have a martini, I might say he's equal with Jordan, but I don't know. He's very, very good. He passes very well.

Don't like his jump shot. Like Bronny, his son, has better form. Okay. Tuck that elbow a little more. He's unbelievable, LeBron James. And I live in L.A., and i always saw the flaws in kobe's game his shot selection 44 percent lebron shooting 50 percent dwayne wade 49 percent and i thought kobe just took awful awful shots awful shots and and so i would go i was at the uh mousse on frank and uh the legendary place and sunny is the

bartender the he's from new york he's actually a nicks fan and i said hey this is what i don't do this anymore because this is before kobe passed and i said do you know you know basketball do you you know you know you know who's better between ko and LeBron, right? He goes, he says, Kobe. I said, it's LeBron. And he took my martini away. He took my martini away. So I don't do it anymore because I understand they're obsessed with Kobe, his competitive nature.

So this is kind of what it is. Somebody said, you know, who's a Kobe fan, he says he actually misses percentage-wise. LeBron hits more clutch shots than Kobebe but kobe it's his body language so let's say kobe let's say lebron misses a game winner and he you know he's in control he walks off the court okay i don't know that's okay whatever and then kobe misses and he's like i'm gonna walks off the court like oh and everyone's like well look at him he's a competitor he's He's angry. He's going to make it next time. It's his body language of when they double teamed him in the game seven

against the Celtics and he goes six for 24 because he's going to shoot. I'm not going to stop shooting. He's so competitive. And it's just like, you know, if you discipline a little bit. Now, LeBron, I don't know. Do you guys like LeBron? That's Carl. We have an issue with him. We all love him, carl is a huge huge he's my guy order okay he got drafted when i was in eighth grade right and i i immediately i'm

as you can see i'm not a laker fan but i did grow up here in los angeles right and lebron was my guy when the clippers were not in the playoffs so right you do know you it's illegal I believe it's illegal if the law has passed you can't be a LeBron fan and a Patrick Beverly fan you can't you absolutely can't well take me to jail then one of the take me to jail Craig I mean call the constable because that's jail time that's jail time put me put me away who's. Who's your third favorite player? Lance Stevenson? No.

No, he's not. My personal favorite players are like LeBron, Shaq, Russ, PG, and... Right, Pat Biff? I wasn't a huge Shaq um because of the offensive fouls but that's just me i wanted to uh big chris dudley guy huh rv is dudley do right over here no here's here's my thing on shack and i had i actually had david stern on the show uh years ago and i asked about the shack thing and he gave the answer i know it's hard he's hard to referee well he initiates the contact that's why you have to foul him hard to send the

line like you're just gonna let him go but as a as a center you're allowed to go over someone with a sky hook you're allowed to spin and go around them or up and under like McHale you can't go through my chest or Dikembe Mutombo's jaw. So, but Shaq is obviously very talented, and he was capable of scoring without going through people's chest. He had a great spin move. Yes. And he could back down and shoot a little push shot off the glass, but when he went through people, it bothered me.

Anyway. Here's my thing about that, Craig. I also grew up playing big man and uh people will hit you and because of your size the ref won't call it and so you have to figure out a way to to stop them from hitting you and if you're gonna hit me I'm gonna hit you back okay so I I I see it slightly differently I bought've wanted to have this conversation with Jeff Van Gunney, who I interviewed once, but he was doing a game when his brother was coaching, Stan was coaching,

the Orlando Magic and Dwight Howard. And Dwight Howard, in transition, they're trying to rim run and get down underneath the basket and you're supposed to as a defender meet him at the free throw line and keep your hand arms up and not let him get position and jeff defended dwight howard said you know you know the beating these guys take you know the beating they take and i want to say they're initiating the contact man tim duncan didn't get hit did i just yell they know but but Tim Duncan didn't get abused. I mean, we can't always say Tim Duncan because he's the greatest.

He's unbelievable. I don't know what Carl thinks of Tim Duncan, but he wasn't hacked to death. He had the fundamentals. He's the number one powerful football player. Dwight Howard can't shoot beyond three feet. Yeah. So he has to dunk all the time. Shaq can't shoot a seven-footer, an eight-foot shot.

But they're initiating the contact and then the defender either lets him go and dunk or you lets him go and he dunks lets him go and dunks or he shoots a free you know send the line to shoot a free throw but I understand it definitely hurts when you clobber Shaq but Shaq is initiating the contact in my opinion okay uh Tim Duncan is the number one power forward of all time. That's what I think of Tim Duncan. I wouldn't say otherwise. I'm not crazy.

People want to say that I'm crazy, but I'm not crazy. I haven't. Does he bother you because he's so calm and low-key? No, the Spurs were boring in those days. Takes every call and strap. Wait a second. Wait a second. When the Spurs were not boring, they passed the ball.

When they had Ginobili, they played against, they beat the Heat. Remember when they blew it? This is where I would love to ask Pablo, why did you take Duncan off the floor when Ray Allen hit that three? His reasoning is, well, we don't have him guard the three-point line. Well, he would have gotten the rebound and whatever. Then they win the next year. And the passing that Spurs team had, the ball movement and the passing is a thing of beauty.

They were fun to watch. Just like the Sacramento Kings were fun to watch. Sacramento Kings, in that era with Chris Webber, got cheated by the Lakers in the West Conference Thank you. Oh, my Lord. I'm not crazy, Craig. However. You know what David Stern said?

And I actually talked to him. They wanted me to do NBA TV, and I had a conversation with him, and I was just like. It was really hard to recover from that King's Lakers series. I just thought it was just ridiculous yeah but oh yeah but we all we all i'll go ahead sorry he said no the the famous quote he said to me he goes like i took a lot of heat for this you know and this was way before the donahue the referee thing he says uh they a reporter once asked him do you want the lakers in the finals don't you you you know

business-wise that's that's good for the league to have the you know you make do you want the lakers in the finals don't you you you know business wise that's that's good for the league to have the you know you make money you want the lakers in the finals and he said i want the lakers versus the lakers in the finals yeah craig i want to ask uh on your new show, The Life Gorgeous. The Life Gorgeous, YouTube. You ask people their top five movies in every episode. Do you have a top five basketball movies list just off the top of your head? Good question. Good question.

I'm allowed one good question broadcast. I'm not a big sports fan movie but i do have a few i've seen i've seen a lot of them and then don't get mad when i haven't seen the ones you talk about okay uh i would say i like hoosiers with gene hackman i'm a fan i like hoosiers here's one that's kind of comical but it's it's so funny because spike lee calls it the worst basketball movie ever made one-on-one with robbie benson uh and that was kind of a it was a you guys probably never saw it right no don't know it yeah it's from the 70s seals and croft did the uh seals and croft seals and croft did the soundtrack when netto tool was in it but that was

a it was kind of an innocent basketball movie but it was kind of fun let's see i saw blue chips uh what am i missing there was uh well do you like fish that save pittsburgh i was gonna i actually i'm glad you brought that up awful and i was a dr j fan awful that's what i would say i'd say to spike lee that's infinitely worse than one-on-one. But one-on-one was about Robbie Benson. It wasn't gritty. It was suburban guys playing ball. So it was a little different.

Did you see Hustle, the new one? Not yet. Not yet. I heard it's good. It's pretty fun. Yeah. I heard it's good. The first thing you mentioned was Hoosiers, and you said you're a big gene hackman fan now i watched an older gene hackman movie i'd never seen before and i

wonder if you've seen it it was called night moves i think i started it i just watched it last week yeah it's supposed to people like it right it's he's a private eye yeah it was it was a strange one yeah that's what i enjoyed it yeah but you know in those old movies you get these snippets of dialogue uh that just they wouldn't say it today and and i know you don't like cursing i know you don't like the f word so you don't have to listen to this part but a guy in the show was describing another gentleman who was extremely horny and he said that boy would fuck a wood pile on the chance there's a snake in it that's funny though and i thought that's he's hoping there's a snake in there it's one step beyond anything that moves isn't it right it's things

that don't move that might have had something. That's hilarious. I thought that was a good line. And I thought maybe that should be brought back at some point. Did you, uh, you, did you guys say you saw the offer, the making of the gun? I watched the offer.

Yeah. I saw, I watched all the episodes. So there's an F word. I won't use it, but, uh, one of my favorite lines,

but you have to know the background, but basically it was when um robert evans was married to ali mcgraw and they're shooting mally ali is down in texas shooting uh the getaway with steve mcqueen and she ended up leaving robert evans for steve mcqueen yeah but but robert evans goes down there and knocks on the door it's a motel room and she won't open it all the way. Is McQueen in there? Are you effing the blob? And it was funny because when my brother and I growing up,

we, my brother was really into science fiction. And for some reason in the blob, this movie, the blob, Steve McQueen was starting out and he was in the blob, which, you know, and then he, then he obviously blew up and became huge and then robert evans in that moment and this was written for this for the series obviously very colorful they're dismissing robert evans is not the great escape or bullet but as as the blob you know yes he's not even the

plot like he's not the blob exactly that's the other that's the other reason it didn't work he was in the blob all right it didn't work on a couple levels but i love the reference to the blob that's like if she was with schwarzenegger and you went are you having sex with predator right it's like well no no he killed predator he hates predator it's his greatest enemy um craig you know we do have to wrap up soon. We do a thing on the show, and I'll ask Kevin to check back in if he's ready. Occasionally, we'll write a little bit of a parody song. We'll record it over a karaoke track, maybe about something that's happening in the league or whatever.

But I really rushed this morning to splash together something to kind of plug your podcast as a bit of a tribute to you. Right. And Kevin, do you have that ready for us? Yes. Okay. So maybe we could play that and that'll, that'll take us out. And you could tell me, I know my vocals aren't perfect.

I'm glad I don't have to sing because I don't sing, but I love music. It's yeah. So this, and hopefully it's a song you enjoy. And there was a, and to give a slight moment of context, I know Goldie and Alex Sulkin had asked you about you checking yourself in the mirror during commercial breaks on your late night show. And you explained that you have very fine hair. Flies around.

And it's prone to flyaways. Yeah, yeah. And so in the chorus, you might see a little bit of a reference to that that's beautiful you put some time into this brandy kill me you're a fine man i'll write the lyrics sure Well, there's a post from the land of lakes And he's got lots of fresh jokes and takes He helps folks to laugh their cares away He's welcome in their homes

And there's a show he's about to release And we think you will be very pleased when you hear the life gorge is soon he drinks fine whiskey and wine and people say kill me you've got fine hair but you style it to a tee yeah you're very funny to me That's all we got. Oh, keep it going, man. Hey, you know, maybe we'll do a full version for the album. That was great.

And your voice is, yeah, it kind of, the fact that it's not perfect, it means it's more heartfelt. It's a little more homemade, a little little diy it's better than it's worse yeah i'm not i'm not showing off with like i'm a great singer it's just like i'm passionate about this topic exactly and i don't mind if i'm a little embarrassed when i release it right thank you i think it's called a fan boy yeah i'm i'm fan that was fun, guys. Thank you so much, Craig.

Thank you, Craig. We really appreciate you doing the show. Thanks, guys. And happy 200 to us, the flagrant ones. Thanks. That's flagrant.