Hollywood Handbook - The Great Debates, Our Close Friends

Episode Date: July 11, 2016

Hayes and Sean invite the three Great Debates, Dave King, Steve Hely and Dan Medina, into the studio to engage in some of their famous debates from their podcast and tell Hollywood stories.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is a HeadGum Podcast. So, it's me, it's Skeletor, it's Yokozuna, it's Alia, Shawkat, and we're riding one of those industrial carpet cleaners around the bottom of an empty pool. Yes. And Yokozuna goes to do a wicked trick, gets his butt stuck in a drain. Skeletor turns on the pool drain. I don't know why. And it sucks his diaper off.

his diaper off. So now I'm in the uncomfortable position of I have to try to help him cover up but I can't seem like I'm looking because I just got a big mouth.

So you had to become a diaper. Well, yes. I essentially formed a human diaper but I also had to keep noticing things that were out of the eyeline of Yoko's Zunas. Pretending like you're thinking about something else. Yes. And so I would be like, oh, is that a, you know, a yellow-bellied sapsucker or some other funny bird name, you know, from the old days?

And be pointing in trees. from the old days and be pointing in trees. And Yoko, I think, bought it. Skeletor did not. Skeletor was pointing out that there was no bird. He's like, there's no bird there and you're not even looking there. You're just burying your face into Yokozuna.

Hey, welcome to Hollywood Handbook Insider's Guide to Kicking Butt and Dropping Names in the Red Carpet Line. We have a nice guest today. The Great Debates are here. What up, what up, showbiz.

And some of these guys have been on the show before. The Debatesters. We did a writer's panel with them with Dave King and Steve Healy. They came back. I have something to say about this. When we met you guys, you guys were just these writers, these TV writers, you know, and then you get a taste of the podcast life. They did have a show then, but it was a joke.

You guys would agree that it was a joke. It was a sick joke. Well, okay. You were almost making fun of the idea of having a show. And we gave you a taste of the podcast life. Well, you know, I'm not going to lie. Yeah, we heard about your numbers, and we got a kind of taste of how a professional operation works.

Which numbers? we got a kind of taste of how a professional operation works. Which numbers? All the downloads, the listeners, the ad rates, all of it. And? I'm sorry? And go on. Are you saying and?

Are you looking for more numbers, or are you looking for me to continue the story? Anything. Okay, right, right, right, right. Why would you stop? I guess because he said and, and I would. Right, right, right. Why would you stop? I guess because he said and. Right, that's the opposite of stop. Look, there was one number.

30,000. It made an impression. Is that what the number was? That was their number. That's our yearly salary. And that kind of stopped us in our tracks. And we said, okay, this could be something. Stop, rethink. Yeah, maybe this isn't be something. Stop. Rethink.

Yeah, maybe this isn't a joke. The podcast that we had at the time. Maybe this isn't a joke. Yeah, I'll admit it. Maybe we should be a little bit more like you guys. Time to, yeah. And Dan Medina's here as well. Dan Medina, good to see you.

We just met. Glad to be here. Don't worry. And then you guys made Podmass. Do you want any tips? Maybe you guys figured, like, how to frame, how to print and frame a Podmass mention. It can be tricky due to the format.

Yes, the print view can be very complicated. It doesn't always capture. Sometimes it cuts off the last word of every sentence, and then you have to reprint, reframe. It can get kind of pricey. Yes. So Haze has kind of like a step-by-step. Landscape mode.

Yeah. If these are directions that you guys already have written out, that would be great if you could just forward it to us, because obviously we wanted to print and frame our project. I can give you the ones that I give to the Aaron brothers. Yeah, I mean that would be huge for us. What I found is you save it as a PDF.

Get the PDF the size you like. Crop. Print the PDF. Crop enlarged landscape mode. Don't print it out of your browser. Don't get into that trap. Yeah, well, and where were you when I printed it out of your browser. Don't get into that trap. Yeah, well, and where were you when I printed it out of my browser? What is it about podcasts that is so addictive for us gents?

Yeah. Yeah. That's the big question. That's the classic. That's the big one. Why can't I stay away? Yeah. Have you tried to stay away?

No. That could be a good debate for you guys. That's the big one. Why can't I stay away? Yeah. Have you tried to stay away? No. That could be a good debate for you guys. That's good. Yeah. Maybe that's the way to debate. And this is a great opportunity for you to give our listeners a little bit of the flavor of your show. Yeah. They just get a little sample.

It's almost like when Beautiful Anonymous was on This American Life. And Steve, you have a book as well. You might want to mention the book. Steve, talk about the book. Oh, yeah. I wrote a book. It's called The Wonder Trail.onymous was on This American Life. And Steve, you have a book as well. You might want to mention the book. Steve, talk about the book. Oh, yeah. I wrote a book. It's called The Wonder Trail. You should get it.

He read a book. The Wonder Trail. He's got a bunch of books. Steve's his most recent book. My most recent. My most recent. Yeah. Yeah.

But, hey, we're here to talk about podcasts and podcasting. Is it like The Wonder Trail from a woman's navel? Like a frigging snail trail? I thought that was the treasure trail. The treasure trail. Oh, wait. Different book. And that's actually.

Oh, yo. The happy trail. That's actually sort of a trap because the thing, you follow the trail and the thing at the end is essentially a monster. It has nothing to do with treasure at all. Essentially a monster. It has nothing to do with treasure at all. It's like the opposite of what you're expecting. As with all great tricks. Yeah.

The promise of adventure at the beginning of the trail is, I mean, it inspires bravery. Greedy men like you and me hear treasure. We start our journey down the trail. Yeah. And then we're left to face. We're punished for our greed. Well, and we often face our greatest fear. Well, the lesson is that the journey is its own reward.

Well, for me, the treasure is found in me surviving the travails. And the treasure was inside me. It was finding that strength. The treasure is always inside you. Yeah, a lot of the time when I've been promised treasure, like, for instance, Earwolf, I think some of these guys are getting treasure for making these podcasts. Right.

And it's been implied as well that we might end up getting treasure. Yeah, but then when we ask for more clarification, they go like, the treasure's inside you. And that's actually what our contract says. That's interesting. That could be good, though. It better be. Yeah. You know, I have to somehow spin it in a positive way for myself.

What did Lev say about that when you sent it to him? Lev Ginsberg, my lawyer. Yeah, Lev Ginsberg, my lawyer. Yeah, Lev Ginsberg, your lawyer. When you forwarded him the contract, I'm sorry, I assumed everyone knew Lev. He did say not to sign it. Yeah. He had a lot of opinions on things that I

should ask for and things that need to be clear in the contract. I kind of went like, well, they're artist friendly. They're not going to care. They're not going to hold us to this if it doesn't make sense but and we said we have Jake Johnson on our first episode surely we'll be able to maintain that level of guests all

the way through which I mean how could we not we didn't deliver on our end of the promise and they they have treated us like we are a disappointment. And, yeah, looking back, would I have listened to Lev? Yeah.

Yeah. I always feel that way, man. And, you know, I've crunched the numbers. Everyone's got to crunch your own numbers. Oh, please. I would say that's a huge, you know, if you're. I crunch my numbers at the end of every day. Yeah. Devote an hour a day to crunches

and crunching. What tool do you use to crunch your numbers, Dave? Just use calculator calc on my iPhone. That's all you need. I calc it. I calc it. Because if you use anything more complicated, you're kidding yourself. Well, and it's easy. It's easy to get lost

in it. Thank you. So just take the raw data. That's what I always tell people. Get the big numbers, the raw data, your nets and your grosses, your percentages. Should we talk about our nightly rituals? Yes. I mean, me, I do a third of the New York Times crossword puzzle. I close it. I curse it.

I crunch my numbers It's the top third and a lot of them are it's amazing how you do this because a lot of them are incomplete You managed to just perfectly fill in the exact top third I don't understand how you do that

What do you mean, like how I do it? It seems like you're not using the clues. The clues, right. Well, the clues are a distraction. A lot of times they say it's European style. I am. Well, my OMA, that's what I call my nano. My OMA taught me a style of cross-wording

that is unorthodox here in the States, but is actually a lot more effective, a lot more freeing, and a lot more beautiful. Where's Oma from? I never asked. She was a mean lady, so I tried not to pry. Okay. Is she no longer with us? You haven't asked. I haven't asked that

either. Yeah. If she's gone... She gone. I hope, you know, there's a little bit of Do-Re-Mi coming my way. What's your nightly ritual, Healy or Medina or Hayes? I'm usually i find myself searching for my son a lot of these yeah nights give me back my son well he i mean

it's not it's a different search every night it's not like i i find him every night but he once a night he'll go see ya and then he runs out the door huh uh that's almost sounds almost like that's his ritual it sounds yes you have a father-son ritual together which is nice i i don't think that's how he thinks of it because he says don't find me and but he's saying he's yelling don't find me so loud that that's usually how i but how is he how is he saying it like with a little it? It is a little wink. Is there a wink? A little do you find me?

It might be a little playful. He's very hoarse. He's a hoarse person. You have a hoarse son. Not like a – Not a hoarse – obviously. Yeah. But he has a very hoarse voice.

And so it's tough for him to express emotion through his voice because of the hoarse voice. He had a pretty, we can talk about it, he had a pretty bad accident doing the cinnamon challenge when he was very young. Oh, man.

He did try to, he was able to successfully do the challenge once and so then he went quadruple or nothing. You're kidding.

I thought he was going to make a killing. I think I read about this. For things of cinnamon. And, you know, $200,000 later, he has a functioning throat, but it doesn't do what you want it to voice-wise. He seems to think more cinnamon is going to fix the problem, and so that's what I think. We have no cinnamon in the house, obviously.

I wish you could go back to the time of the cinnamon challenge and tell so many of those kids that even the ones that are going to get famous, it's going to be pretty fleeting. Is it worth it? Yeah. And that it's hard to do something else once you're sort of known as the cinnamon kid. You're a cinnamon kid. You're a cinnamon kid.

Do the cinnamon trick again. And for a while there it was, yeah, bring me in the cinnamon kids. We'll get a million of them. It was like fine stars. But then, you know, that kind of just disappeared, that whole thing. But if I went back

and told all those kids that, then I would sort of feel like, oh, now it could be just me doing this. Right. Is it an opportunity? Now I've carved out a real space just for myself. Well, if you could jump back

and forth in time, there's a lot of opportunities you could create for yourself. Whoa. That's something I think about often, where I'm like, would this song, Pop Style, by

Drake, be popular if I had recorded it? Right. Hey, if I had to be, if I were one of the Celtics, could they still win a game? You know. Oh, yeah. I drive myself crazy with those kind of logic games. Very trippy.

How about this one? If I killed Oma, you know, would I exist? Yes. Yeah. Huh. You said you're not sure if Oma's still around or not? I don't know, but I'm saying if I'm going back in time, stopping her from doing some of the stuff that she did.

I do think if you killed her now, you'd probably be in the clear. Yeah. In terms of existing, at least. Did you kill her? Yeah, what's going on? Oh, well, you know what? Yeah, I haven't actually asked that. But we didn't hear everyone's night ritual.

That could be an interesting debate. Oh, yes. That's a good debate. Did I kill Oma? But we do need to hear some more night rituals first before we get into the debates. But we would like to give people some of the flavor. The flavor is the rituals? The flavor is the debates.

And we hope it stays in their mouth so hard that they go listen to your show. We do have to account for all the night rituals. Okay, let me just blast through my night ritual. Big glass of milk, Sonicare. Stretch for 30 minutes. I'm in bed. I'm done.

It's nice. 30 minutes. You have to stretch 30 minutes minimum. What are we focusing on when we stretch? Right after a big milk. After your milk. You've got to stretch 30 minutes minimum. What do we focus on when we stretch? Right after a big milk. After your milk? You got to stretch the milk out. Let it get into all your bones.

A big milk. A huge milk. I'm going to hit a big milk. How many ounces of milk is that? 20 ounces. Yeah. I do 20 ounces. And you just pound it.

I pound it. Yeah. It stays fresh. One gulp. Yeah. One gulp of monster milk. Yeah. Gah. Yeah. Blast it. It stays fresh. One gulp. Yeah. One gulp of monster milk. Yeah. Gah.

Yeah. Blast it. And then you just stretch. Feel it get into the bones, into the joints, into the gristle, and feel your body mature. It's nice. I don't do animal products as much. I don't like the term vegan, but I am plant-based. Your diet is plant-based. Mm-hmm. What don't you like about the term vegan, but I am plant-based. Your diet is plant-based.

What don't you like about the term vegan? It reminds him of the character Vega from Street Fighter, which is a scary character. The freaking claws. All right, okay, don't remind me. How's that not against the rules? The claws are him saying. Yeah, he's wearing claws.

No rules in a street fight brother they got guys throwing fireballs then why okay but that's an ability that he developed over time the yoga flame yoga fire yoga fire

yeah and also a monster is allowed to compete Balrog well Balrog's a boxer the monster whoa whoa whoa whoa, whoa, whoa. I wouldn't call that

guy a monster. Who's the hairy monster? Because he's got like a gold tooth. Who's the green guy? I don't know. Just because he has a slightly different background than you. So here we are. We've got Blanca, who's like a green guy that gives off orange hair.

But Balrog is a monster. Balrog's a monster to you. Sorry, I got the names wrong. who's like a Greek guy that gives up orange hair. But Balrog is a monster. Balrog's a monster to you. Sorry, I got the names wrong. It's been a while. Holy shit. Okay, so we're about halfway done with the night rituals. Okay, I'll be mine. TM, TM, TM.

It's pretty straightforward. Yeah, basically I do 20 minutes of meditation. Before dinner, I eat dinner. I do 20 minutes of meditation before dinner. I eat dinner. I do an hour of meditation. I crunch the numbers and then I do 90 minutes of meditation before sleep. Would you be okay with Medina guessing your mantra? Yeah.

Look, you know, it's uncomfortable, but yeah, I'm fine. If he guesses it right, you have to get a new one. Medina, you're cleared for takeoff. What does he get? What does Medina get out of this if he guesses it right? He's cleared for takeoff. He should get something.

Just cleared for takeoff. Cleared for takeoff. Medina, while you think about it, I'll write it down on this card. I'm folding it over. I'll slide it over to Hayes. Okay, Hayes has the card. So you know it. Yes, I can confirm whether down on this card. I'm folding it over. I'll slide it over to Hayes. Okay, Hayes has the card. So you know it. Yes, I can confirm whether or not.

Hayes, don't look. Okay. Please don't look because I only want to use this as verification if he actually guessed it right. And if he didn't, obviously I'll take it back and you'll never look at it. Thank God. It'll be mine. Go ahead. at it, thank God, and it'll be mine.

Go ahead. I have this inside of me. It's not a guess yet. He's preparing to guess. This is not a guess. But now it seems like he does have it inside of him.

He's summoned the mantra. We should probably, I mean, just so the listeners know, his eyes are like in the back of his head now. This is inside of me. It is inside of me. Yeah. It's inside of you, right? Hayes, open that card.

Okay. Yeah. What does it say? It says, I have this inside of me. Yeah. Don't look at that part. Don't look at that part. Don't look at that part.

That's something else. Okay, go ahead. Is that supposed to be me? It's not. Don't. If you're going to look at that part, don't show it to Sean. I mean, it's a part. Like, part of it's typed, and part of it looks like it's like there's

an opposite page that looks like it's a script. So it looks like you were reusing paper. Yes. Somehow part of it's typed. Yeah. And you're writing it down on a piece of the script paper. Yes. It looks like a workaholic script.

It is. Where Sean's character Fritz. Ah, yes. The acting teacher is being written out of the show. Oh. That has nothing to do with my mantra. Give me that. You're drawing me.

That is not necessarily you. And I'm sucking on Vega's claws. And I'm saying, ooh, I like this. I don't deserve to be on the show. Dave King should have played Fritz. I would never say that. I brought that character to life, David. And I liked the way you played Fritz.

I liked the way you played Fritz. I liked it. But I had already been established as canon in the workaholic universe. Did you feel like you gave it up too fast in the ICP episode? Yes. Look, for everyone who doesn't know, the three or four people. He's Hatchet Man. I played Juggalo Davis in a season one episode of Workaholics. The Hatchet Man, yeah.

Sold hatchets. It had been, it just seemed like that's who the character should have been. Why did they need to bring in a Fritz? Davis exists already. So, yeah, great. Now we're airing our grievances, I guess, here. I'm sorry you had to find out about it this way through my mantra, which also happens to be in Medina.

I guess I correctly, it is inside me. Here's a little story about Davis writing for the show Love. So, I get an audition for this show. As you could imagine, I'm excited. It's Judd Apatow.

Leslie Arfin. Paul Rust Judd Apatow. Right. Leslie Arfin. Paul Rusty. Some big names. I'm stoked. Dave King. I go in. Dave King is involved. He's a producer and writer.

You'll appear. Don't worry. I go in. Allie Waller. Yeah. Allie Rushfield. Brent Forrester. Believe me.

A lot of fans of mine. Gillian Jacobs. I get in there I fucking drill it I've never been so right for something in my life Allison Jones casting doesn't know what to do with themselves and by the way there's a big article about her

so and she's actually the one who secretly is responsible for all the success of the shows. A lot of the good stuff that you see, she knows who's good to put in. So I finish up. I clean up. I leave and I wait for the phone call. So many people don't clean up.

Please. It's so unprofessional. It's like you didn't audition. We know you made a mess. Just clean the shit up. I go to play in a big Hollywood poker game that night. Don't want to talk about who plays in the game. You know, Don C. Reilly, whatever.

Big names. I flopped the nuts a couple times. Big names. I flopped the nuts a couple times. Monster stacks. And you were doing your audition for a lot of people at the game and they agreed that they want to have fun. The game is for fun. It's not

make money night. It's poker night. You play poker. You have fun. Sure. Okay. You clean up if you're doing your audition. Some people are very concerned about just how much money. Are they up or down? We've all played poker with names. Yeah. Beds Dave King is there.

He's the one I don't like. And I talk to him during pizza time. And I go, I came in for your show today. And he goes, oh, my God, that's so fucking great. And I go, yeah, really funny role. I'd really love to do it. I drilled the audition. I cleaned up afterwards. Dave goes like, oh, you totally should be, yeah, I hope you do. I go like, oh, well, that's awesome. And he really heavily implies he's going to put in a word for me. Sounds like it to me.

Producer on the show, producer level. He's episodic. He's not being paid by the week. And I am feeling like this seals the deal, not that I needed it. The character's name is Wyatt. Yeah. Smash cut two. I'm watching the show Love in my home with my wife, who I love. And I don't want her to see me the way I'm about to be. You should say you're watching in your wife's home.

Yes, I'm sorry. It's her home, but I am allowed there for limited periods of time. So as we're watching it, the character, Wyatt, appears on the screen. The one I auditioned for. The one I thought, they must have just eliminated this character. There's no way someone else is playing him. They must have decided he wasn't right for the world. I know the show was in flux.

There was probably a lot of messing around at the beginning. Dave couldn't decide what he wanted to do. So as I'm watching it, who is playing Wyatt on the show but Dave King? is playing Wyatt on the show, but Dave King, my former friend who had promised to put a word in, was in fact a snake with a knife.

This is where you call in Lev, I think. I think this is a Lev situation. It is a conflict for Lev to represent both me and my acting nemesis, Dave King. If this is about Lev, then maybe this is the time one of us puts a call in and says, pick a side, Lev. Pick a fucking side.

Oh, I don't think you. For him, it's a numbers game. For him, it's a, yeah. He'll crunch his own numbers, bud. He's going to crunch his own numbers. He's going to crunch his own numbers and be like, do I want to be with Wyatt or the guy at home watching his wife watch another guy play Wyatt? That's right. I wonder. Tough decision.

It's a simple talent. Tough call. Do I want to be with the guy who got the part or the guy who thought he had the part? I got an episodic guy who's also playing a part, and I got a guy who's watching his wife watch at home. I'm watching my wife watch the show. How much commission do I get when a guy watches at home with his wife? Crunch, crunch, crunch.

I did audition for the part of Wyatt and did a better job than you, and that is why I was cast in the role. Oh, yeah, it wasn't just a local. I just want to make that clear. Wasn't a local hire inside the building? I live in Los Angeles. You're misusing the term. I think one thing that happened is some of the people were afraid that if Wyatt was too funny of a character,

he would steal scenes from some of the other main characters who are writing the show and making a lot of the decisions. It's funny. I can disabuse you of that notion, having been inside the process. Actually, what happened was Judd thought I was a funny person and he suggested that I audition. And so even though I had no intention of doing that, my boss asked me to. And so then I went and did that and got the part because of how funny I was.

Oh, right. Well, there's no way that he would manipulate you in order to keep the rest of his cast who are bigger stars happy and make you feel like you're being funny when actually you're just sort of a... Right, I agree. Yeah. I agree.

Yeah, a big Hollywood player like Judd, he wouldn't know how to do that to someone. Anyway, let's talk about some debates. One debate is how come BJ Novak said that yours is his favorite podcast when he'd been on this podcast? Did he forget or hit his head? You want to debate that? Well, he said that on Tim Ferriss' podcast. Right.

Which is like... Interesting. So he was already on another podcast. Four-hour work week. Tim Ferriss has such good sex. Four-hour sex a week. He just... Yeah, four-hour sex a week.

He just will often give me a health tip, maybe show me how to make a smoothie. Then it's suddenly about fucking. Then he'll just toss it in as if I was going like, okay, but does this guy really fucking lay it down? If I'm wondering, I don't have to wonder anymore. It comes out. He lets you know.

He generously allows me to picture him fucking, even when he's talking about something totally unrelated. Life is full of mysteries and wonders. It's nice to have some certainties. And one is that Tim Ferriss can go to Bonetown hard, thoroughly for a long time. Death taxes and Tim Ferriss laying it down. Let's put it that way. Guy lays it on.

Okay, but did we want to do the BJ debate? Yeah, should you guys debate? Yeah, well, Steve mentioned what podcast he set it on. Was that the debate? Medina? Medina is the body. The topic is BJ. Did BJ hit his head?

Was he injured? Or was it a pointed assault on Hollywood Handbook? Or was it a pointed assault on Hollywood Handbook? Okay, I'll take the pro. Pointed assault on Hollywood Handbook. I think, yeah, he's firing a shot across your bow. No question. And you guys honestly need to respond. He'll be disappointed if you don't. That's my opening statement.

BJ's a smart guy. He's not going to make enemies in Hollywood that cavalierly, if you will. We also, look, we have some inside information. You and I both know that BJ's not quite as coordinated as he lets on to be in his characters like Ryan Howard on The Office. He's prone to injury. You and I have seen him accidentally hit his elbow in his hand. I think it's totally possible that on his way out of Moza or wherever he was at, he hits his head on a doorframe. And for no malicious reasons, he's going to accidentally say that The Great Debates is his favorite podcast. Can I tag in? Yeah.

It's big. His head's big. His head's very big. Yeah, he's got a Cinema Star head. Can I tag in? Yeah. Hayes would know. Nice.

Very well done. If BJ hit his head on the way out of Mozza, that was part of a strategy. This is a guy who's planning moves ahead of moves. I think he's sending you guys a strong, clear message. Turn it up, Handbook. Been around for a while. You're at that 30,000. Good.

Let's get it to 40,000. You know, this would all make sense if BJ himself had his own podcast and he actually had skin in the game. But what he gains nothing from our – from saying the great debates is his favorite podcast. From our – from saying The Great Debates is his favorite podcast. This is a guy who's not going to just say things altruistically. As you said, he's a calculated man. He's thinking three steps ahead. This had to have been a mistake on his part.

He obviously either – I mean I'm not saying he hit his head because I think that Sean is throwing that in a little too, I don't know, conveniently as the catch-all solution. Can I tag in? Please. No, I'm not. Okay. Uh-uh. You've got a great coach who's got a lot of great players. He's going to set them against each other, pit them against each other.

And that's what BJ is. He's a coach to the world of podcasting from the Tim Ferriss down to the Great Debates. He's trying to get this dynamic. You know what? If he were such a good coach, then that move would have worked because, as you said, handbooks stuck at 30K. So if BJ is this John Wooden of podcasts, then why hasn't the motivation worked? Why haven't their numbers gone up? Hitting his head in Mozart.

Again, it all points back to he hit his head. Hit his head in Mozart. He didn't hit his head in Mozart. We're here now. Right. We're at the H book. Yeah. I don't know what their numbers are going to be next week, but I'm guessing it's not going to be 30,000.

I got a pretty damn good guess. And if you look at that flat line on the chart, that it's not going to suddenly peak from three schmoes from the great debate showing up and arguing about whether or not. I mean, listen to what we're even arguing here. from the great debates showing up and arguing about whether or not, I mean, listen to what we're even arguing here. I think he set this whole thing up for this exact day, and he wants to see what you guys are going to do to respond. We're here. I mean, I think he's hoping to go on Tim Ferriss next week and say,

Tim, I'm back. I know your bone. I'm back with Hollywood Handbook as my favorite podcast. Wow. I would suspect I would agree with you if I didn't know that Doughboys is a podcast. Doughboys is definitely the X Factor.

That is absolutely going to be his favorite podcast the next time he's interviewed. It really is time for us to team up against Doughboys. And that's why we brought you here. Can we talk honestly about that? Where can we hit them?

What are their weak points? They seem pretty impenetrable. One thing that I've noticed about Doughboys is that they're running low on chain restaurants already. I mean, you hit 60 episodes, 80 episodes,

so the last one I heard was Bubba Gump with Paul Scheer. Sure. It was a great episode. But is that the restaurant that comes to mind when you think of chain restaurants? I saw they have Joan Array doing Jollibee. Jollibee. I mean, talk about bottom of the barrel. I'd like to announce on the podcast.

On this podcast. On this podcast. On this podcast No, but we would love to also do anything on Dope Boys. I'll do anything they want. I'd like to announce I've been in touch with Mike Mitchell about being a guest. I'd love to anytime. I'm a huge fan of his. I'd like to get this out in front. Yeah, Mike, he's very funny. I didn't audition

for that character. He earned that one outright. So, June 24th, 2015 over a year ago, this is a message I wrote to Nick Weiger. Not that you asked, and not sure if this chain is big enough, but if you do a Doughboys about BJ's brew house, I do fucks with the pizookie. He says that'd be rad.

I love that place. And now I'm really blowing him up. It's where my wife first met my parents years ago. I mean, he's getting intimate with me. Sean, it's okay, man. Hang in there, bud. Mitch out of town for like a month. All right, okay.

When he gets back let's set it up I say this is all on June 24th 2015 sounds good well it's been more than a month

if they do BJ's brew house the psychological warfare I mean they're obviously waiting to drop a BJ's episode

to just shatter me, probably on my anniversary with my wife, whose house I get to hang out in sometimes when I want to watch TV. They're waiting. They're not doing BJ at BJ's. I mean, I was just thinking. Yes, that's the fear. Yeah. But I actually don't think they will.

I think they'll go with someone far smaller. Interesting. Just to say, to really fuck with you. I think they'll go with someone far smaller. Interesting. Just to say, to really fuck with you. Because if they bring BJ to BJ's. A BJ Porter. A BJ Porter, a BJ Averell. BJ Averell would be the right size guest for that. So, because, yeah, that's interesting.

That's interesting. Yeah. Well, we'll see. I'm sorry to hear about this, Sean. I mean. Yeah, that's a fucking bummer, dude. When are you guys going to be on? Been texting with Mitch, hoping they call my name, you know.

Hoping to get called up. Yeah. Man, Mitch is funny in that role. He must have nailed his audition. Oh, he was great. Yeah. Well, and again, he, I mean, only sort of proves the – your hypothesis wrong further, which is this absurd notion that Judd was for some reason casting people who weren't funny. Oh, is he a writer, producer on the show?

Mitch? Yeah. No, just heavily involved. Oh, he's an actor. He's a professional actor. Actor, professional actor. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, as am I. I mean I wear many hats. As you know, I've been – Did a lot on Carson Daly. Make, professional actor. Yeah. Well, as am I. I mean, I wear many hats. As you know, I've been, you know. Did a lot on Carson Daly. Make America debate again. Last call with Carson Daly, Workaholics, Parks and Recreation, Brooklyn Nine-Nine. Traffic Light. Traffic Light played a voice. No big deal.

Played the voice of Phil on an episode of Traffic Light. Is that a big deal? I don't know. I still get the residuals. So, I guess I'm a big deal? I don't know. I still get the residuals. So, I guess I'm a professional actor. I don't know. Should we have a quick debate?

I would love to just see a debate about Engineer Sam. This is something that I have personally been going back and forth on a little bit. I'll take the pro. Okay, good. Pro Sam. I guess you'll be the anti-Sam.

Yeah, gladly. So the topic is Engineer Sam. Hey, he's on the case. It's Saturday. He's doing his job. He's got his brewer's hat on, and he doesn't break. That's the important thing. You know, most engineers, they'd be sitting here listening to handbooks, laughing their ass off, texting people photos, Snapchatting it,

periscoping it, trying to make it something for them. Can you believe this is my job? I'm here. Oh, my God. Get to work with these dummies. Can you believe it? These dorks are it again. That's not Sam's way.

He's a pro. He chills. He roots for the brewers. He hangs up. He almost makes it seem as if he doesn't like the show. I mean, that's how professional he is. And that's where my argument's going. There's a difference between chilling and showing the courtesy and respect

and sort of helping contribute to the bonhomie of the podcast, if you will. I haven't seen this guy crack a smile since I sat down. Am I asking the guy to break out laughing? No, of course not. But would it kill him to show in some way that he's enjoying the process? No. In fact, I almost feel like that should be part of his job description. I know he's working the ones and twos over there,

trying to make this sound as good as possible. The Brewers hat, it's a little trying too hard. He's using the retro one with the old M&B logo. Why not use the current one instead? Again, I'm just not getting his sense. I feel like he's against us and not with us. Look, you've got two models here. You've got the Kevin Eubanks model laughing at everything,

participating in the show, and you've got the Jean-Baptiste model letting Colbert be Colbert, just doing your thing, being a professional. He's from the second school. Which one of those shows was more popular? I'm trying to remember. Well, look. Which one of those shows got more numbers?

Thank you. Look, is that Jean-Baptiste's job, or is that Colbert's job? Wouldn't hurt for Jean-Baptiste to pitch in. I'll tag in. Flashback to 45 minutes ago. We're asked by production coordinator Kevin to no longer record on Saturdays.

Sam is present for this request. I'm sort of expecting maybe Sam will say, Hey, Kevin, don't take this away from me. I love doing this on Saturdays with these guys. What would I do on Saturday, Kevin, don't take this away from me. I love doing this on Saturdays with these guys. What would I do on Saturday, Kevin, if these guys didn't come in to record? I'd be left to my own motorcycle devices. Wait, you didn't tell me the guy rides a motorcycle. Oh, yeah, that's all he does.

That's the game change. It's a primary characteristic. Motorcycling is dangerous. It's dangerous not only to himself but to other motorists. I call it a selfish form of transportation. No question it's dangerous. No question he's going to die or have a serious injury. But fucking cool.

I mean, riding a motorcycle is cool. It's as cool as riding a bicycle times ten. Can I tell you how much sense it makes suddenly that Sam rides a motorcycle? Because what is a pod? Look, there's six guys sitting around a table here trying to get something done as a team. And I feel like there's, I'm going to correct myself, there's five guys and one guy. Because it's us and then Sam over here, just as when I'm out on the road, it's everybody in their cars. And then one motorcyclist weaving and bobbing through the lanes, making everyone's pulling their hair out.

Hey, what the hell, buddy? You know, I'm going to open a car door and hit Sam on the way home, and we're both going to be involved in the litigation. It's a rush to engineer a podcast. Like, you're feeling a lot of adrenaline pumping. You can't just walk out the door and get in a Prius, you know? You need to keep that going you need to keep chasing that high there's there's and i'm of course there of course but there's more responsible ways to come down to let the adrenaline oh you love to do tm i know

you're all you're from podcast to podcast telling everybody to do tm but look some guys that doesn't work for they need something a little more well he can't you know okay but there's ways to do TM. But look, some guys that doesn't work for. They need something a little more. Well, he can't, you know, okay. But there's ways to do it without endangering the people around him. That's my closing statement. What is Sam's TM mantra? And I want to know what guys that doesn't work for. Oh, yeah.

What kind of guys? Oh, and by the way, when you said there's five guys in here working together, we also have Coach BJ Novak on the sidelines. He didn't even have to be in the room to help inspire us. He's pulling all the strings. He's up in here working together. We also have Coach BJ Novak on the sidelines. He didn't even have to be in the room to help inspire us. He's up in the skybox. He has that flag in front of his house that says, Sixth Man.

Because he's like the way the 12th Man flag is up in Seattle, which I think is cool because he's like the sixth man of every podcast. Yeah. Jamal Crawford. Medina, did you have a take? What did you think? He wanted to know what Sam's mantra was. I want to know what Sam's mantra is.

Sam, would you be mad if Medina tried to guess your mantra? No, go ahead. Okay, it's inside of me. Okay. That's not a guess. That's the warm-up. That's the warm-up. It always confuses me.

It could be. Sam, could you scribble it down inside this greeting card and hand it to Hayes so that he can read what it is later? There's money in here, too. It's from Ola. There's money in here, too. It's from Olmos. I am going to go there.

And now, I don't know if that's the guess or if Medina is about to go there. Medina! Medina! Say guess when you've guessed. Yeah. Okay. Oh, he's back. I'll try it. Okay, he's back. I'll try it. Okay, he's about to go right now.

I'm going to guess. Okay. I am going to go there. And that's the guess. That is the guess. I didn't hear guess. No, I said it. Oh, guess. He said I'm going to guess. I didn't hear guess. No, I said it. Oh, guess.

He said I'm going to guess. Are you okay, bud? Yeah, I'm fine. Yeah, it's scary for me to see you take off like that. The first time you only got an inch or two inches off the ground. This time you were like four or five inches off the ground. Sam, should Hayes open his greeting card? Yeah.

The greeting card is from Oma. Mm-hmm. And it says, there is a little money in it but it says something about how you tried to put her upside down in the tub okay this is okay that's her version of that story what I said was

I said your wig's disgusting take it off it seems like this is your weekly payment for said was so okay well i said your wig's disgusting take it off she she has been i just want to it seems like this is your weekly payment for giving her baths yeah but i said your wig's disgusting take it off upside down next time it's got it's got bugs in it or something she didn't want to take it off i said well i'm cleaning it so either you take it off or you're going in with it. And it wasn't a tub. It was a running washing machine. I would say, okay, that sounds worse. I'm taking Sean's side here. Oh, it sounds like he had a wig bug problem. Dealt with it. Well, it's got to be very sudsy to make sure you

kill those bugs and their eggs. Yeah. Wig bug. What is that upside bug? What does that mean? Wig bug is Medina's mantra, by the way. Oh, Sam's out. Sam's out, guys. Goodbye.

He bailed. Getting that motorcycle, getting out of here. He's going to go there. Who's engineering now? Is this even being engineered? The levers are moving, which makes me think that BJ is somewhere. BJ is remotely controlling the board. He's got that app.

After List app now, he's got like remote engineer app. To answer your question, I think upside down is wig first. Oh. Is that what that means? Yeah, that's right. Okay. That makes sense then. How much money was in there?

$4. Mm-hmm. Blood money. Because... I don't know. What does that mean? Well, it leads me to believe that you maybe killed her. Nah, you can't kill her.

Right. Okay. Goddamn battle axe. Do you want to read some of your book from memory, Steve? Oh, yeah. I'd love for you to lay down some of that shit. Well, you know, it's tough to know where to begin. The book's like 300 pages.

This is the book or this is you talking about the book? What page would you like to hear? Okay. I mean, I have an answer. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, for Dave, you better read. would you like to hear? Okay. I mean, I have an answer. Yeah, for Dave, you better read. I know what page Dave wants to hear, man. 69?

Hell yeah, page 69. Come on! Me and my boys call that the happy meal. The happy meal, buddy. There I am, down in Oaxaca, Mexico. The sun beating on my face. Yeah. A lot of there I am's of the book. Mexico. The sun beating on my face. Yeah. I mean, that's – A lot of there I am's of that book.

Yeah. It's not – yeah. Well, the reader is jumping in and out. You've got to remind them constantly. You have to sort of guess where they're going to be when they pick up the book and jump in. Once again, the book's called The Wonder Trail. Kindle. It's got to have a subtitle.

A True Story from Los Angeles to the End of the World. I know. Again, in Kindle. Is there an audio book? Amazon, there's an audio book. Who's got to have a subtitle. True Stories from Los Angeles to the End of the World. I know. Again, in Kindle. Is there an audio book? Amazon, there's an audio book. Who's reading it? Me. What do you define as the end of the world?

Like, you know, Patagonia, the bottom of South America. You know, like Patagonia or people shooting cops, cops shooting people. Yeah, well, yeah. Robots. We don't take a side on this podcast on that stuff. That's wise. Yeah. We got robots with bombs out there now.

Bomb bots. And they're blowing people away. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Does that make you feel more at ease, less at ease? The drones? Right. Here's the thing about drones is they can't get down into caves like raptors can

that's why what we really what the military should really be focused on is training some of these raptors to militarize them I'd say if we see them do one trick like if they stay based on a hand gesture at that point we should be

abandoning drones and putting all of our resources into putting the raptors down there to fight our battles. I saw a TED talk that Vincent D'Onofrio did about this. He said that sometimes the trainer will have too strong a bond with the raptors and not want to use them as weapons because they are animals, even though they were created in a lab. And then sometimes you have to use the chaos created by another dinosaur getting loose. Okay.

Can I ask you a question, Sean? And this may or may not be related to what we're talking about. Sure. Just don't connect the dots yet. Did you audition for the Jake Johnson part in Jurassic World? You know, for an actor of my caliber to remember every audition they went on, every time they nailed it, every time they cleaned up

and left a nice space for the next actor. That's not really a possibility. And the cleanup for that one was difficult because there is a thing in that movie where you accidentally knock a big drink off the desk.

Oh, yeah. And another actor is supposed to come put a trash can there for it to fall into. But when the reader doesn't do that part because they're not a professional. Now, that actor, if I recall, the Jake Johnson part, had a lot of scenes with Lauren Lapkus, right? Right, yes. So they probably were building the cast up from there. Have you heard her doughboys? No.

Where'd she go? I don't know yeah do you think that the tension between you guys maybe got in the way of your getting that role uh the that we're in a big fight yeah well i don't know if she knows we're in a fight i just know that she was hugged dough boys i wasn't i know that she has had to do interviews where she listed the best episodes of her podcast that she didn't mention the one that i was on Doughboys. I wasn't. I know that she has had to do interviews where she listed the best episodes of her podcast and she didn't mention the one that I was on, even though, let's face it, that one was funny. She has to know. If you're on

Doughboys and you're not, you have to know that. Weirdly, it should have been something that could work because the fight you guys were in was about whether to shut down the electric feds. It should have been something that you could have used for that movie. Well, for the fight part of the movie, it would have worked, but I think they thought that dynamic was going to be too visceral for the audience.

Too visceral. Too usable. Is that the right word? Too helpful. Is that the right word? It's funny. I've never heard casting decisions made for those reasons. Oh, this is something that could really help us on the screen because there's a real-life relationship that actually mirrors that of the characters.

You've got to be kidding me. Sean. Sean. Well, why do you think they chose Jake Johnson? Because he's funny. Because he's good. Because he cleans up better than anyone. You mean cleans up after his audition? After his audition.

He's good friends with the director for a long time. He's good friends with the director for a long time. I don't know the director. Sean, can I tell you something? Yeah. You know, you all people should know. Yeah, you want to stop this dance that it's all merit-based, that the world of auditioning is a meritocracy, that I out-auditioned you?

Fine. You of all goddamn people should know. It's not how well you do. It's who you fucking know in this business. And it does, you know, if you're going to trace it back to Safety Knot, how did he get Safety Knot? He's been friends with the director for a long time. Before Safety Knot?

Yes. It's hard to imagine anyone being friends before Safety Knot. That's what taught me what friendship was about. It's movie-invented friendship, basically. Basically. It's funny. I have a story, actually, about the JP auditions. A buddy of mine is Colin's assistant.

Jay Dubs. He told me Jake goes into the audition, nails it. Cleans up. That's the thing. What? He didn't even bother cleaning up. I've heard about this.

I've heard about this tactic. I have heard about this tactic where you're so above it, you don't need the job, you're're hot shit it makes them want you even more you're not willing to clean up now all of a sudden like why didn't this guy feel like he had to clean up he must be so good and have so many opportunities that we gotta get him we gotta get the guy who didn't clean up i don't agree with that i think that you should give it the respect it deserves.

It's a space for other actors. I pity whoever went in after him and had to probably double clean up. Slip and slide. And slipping into big golf. Had to clean up before the audition. It was Matthew Lillard. It was Matt Lillard. Yep.

And I know because I saw Matt and he was pissed. And rightly so. And I like Jake. He's funny. He's been on the podcast once three years ago. So this isn't about Jake and my, you know, it's not a thing with me and him. I think we both, what we do is good, both of us.

It's different. And I think there's room enough for both of us in the next Jurassic Park movie. Playing the same character. Ideally, yes. Just at different times. Maybe I could be young Jake. Right.

I don't think so. What makes you feel like that's not a possibility? Well, there's, okay, so just to think it through, there's a few reasons. One is that you guys are roughly the same age. You don't look markedly younger. How would he be so much more successful than me? Well, that's something you have to figure out in your own time. The other is that he's, you know.

I just need a little time. He's much more recognizable than you. So when people see the quote-unquote older Jake Johnson character, and we're all laughing because it's absurd this notion to begin with people are going to go oh Jake Johnson I love him

flashback to the younger Jake Johnson who is this unfamiliar face I don't get it well there's a world where it would be they'd go like

oh good Wyatt right oh you're oh so you're suggesting that I play I play young Jake Johnson no which I think is an interesting idea.

That's disgusting. That's a great idea. I would buy into that. Yeah, I'd buy that. Please don't gross me out. That's disgusting. Like a chubby or Jake Johnson. Yeah, like a guy who's let it go a little.

Kind of like a Jew's. What are we going to explain happened to him in between? Well, you know, he converted and started working out. It's pretty common. Could tell the story of the movie very well. But just the final point here is that the reason obviously it wouldn't work with you and Jake playing the same characters because then you'd have

and this was proven by the auditions that it would be like one actor of an inferior ability and an actor of a superior ability playing the same person. It wouldn't make sense. It could be that he learned how to be a good actor in the meantime. Oh, so that's interesting.

Oh, very cool. But the character isn't an actor if you follow. The character – Aren't we all actors and don't we all wear masks in our lives? No, that's wrong. Most people aren't actors. You and Jake are both actors, but what I'm saying is that the character in the movie isn't an actor.

So there's no... Why is he in a movie, then? Yeah, how'd he get in the movie? Right, okay. I'm beginning to understand why Jake got the part instead of you, I think, for me. Or I'm getting additional reasons now. Yeah, friends with the director. Bye.

Bye. Adam Sachs and Chris Bannon. For more information and content, visit Earwolf.com.