Hollywood Handbook - The Pro Version #405 + #408: ALL ON GREGORY and STEPHEN FISHBACH, OUR SURVIVOR FRIEND

Episode Date: December 23, 2025

Enjoy these un-paywalled Pro Version episodes! The Boys return to their roots and launch their recap podcast.The Boys welcome Stephen Fishbach (Survivor) on the Pro to promote his upcoming book and, of course, read some of his DMs out loud.Pre-order Stephen's book, Escape!Get a Hat Pack Hat here!Watch the video of today’s episode at Patreon.com/HollywoodHandbook This is a Headgum podcast. Follow Headgum on Twitter, Instagram, and Tiktok. Advertise on Hollywood Handbook via Gumball.fm See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is a headgum podcast. The wait is over. Dive into Audible's most anticipated collection, the best of 2025. Featuring top audiobooks, podcasts, and originals across all genres. Our editors have carefully curated this year's must-listens, from brilliant hidden gems to the busiest new releases. Every title in this collection has earned its spot. your go-to for the absolute best in 2025 audio entertainment. Whether you love thrillers, romance,

or nonfiction, your next favorite listen awaits. Discover why there's more to imagine when you listen at audible.com slash best of the year. Hey guys, Chef Kevin here. The boys and I are taking the next two weeks off for the holidays. So we are unpaywalling some of our favorite pro versions of the year. We're doing two this week and two next week. Hope you enjoy them and we will see you in January. Happy holidays everybody just reading about how jose and pete bought a boat

they bought the ferry yes and spoiler alert they weren't the most responsible fairy owners ever and I don't want to cut off your story but spoiler alert shocker they it turns out that a couple of comedians who might have been smoking a little something

or not entered the live auction or is it even more embarrassing if one of them was stone cold sober and went ahead and yeah maybe got out over their skis a little bit. Their water skis

because it's a boat. Captain's license just yet hold off on awarding that just for the moment that's how they bought this boat and they're paying $600,000 like a month

to store it. Yeah to take care of the ferry which ultimately, I think the plan was for there to be a comedy show on the boat. Comedy show on the boat. Tickets would be $100,000 each. Hospitality event. And it's going back to their roots. I've been thinking so much about my own roots.

God, as you get older, you return to the landscapes of your youth, don't you? And these totems that are so important to us and how to share that with your audience. and Pete has done it with Bupkis and the other one honoring your story the king of Staten Island yes and looking you know not losing sight of where you came from just because of how far you've gone

and I was thinking we could where I'm at now is that we could buy you remember how engineer Sam would ride his motorcycle yes to our records seemingly i never saw him on it but i definitely saw him near it he would be yes he would like kind of stand next to it and he would walk in in this way sort of bow-legged sorry guys my legs are all wide from the motorcycle just gotten off a thundering beast mm-hmm legs kind of like quaver like they're still they're still vibrating a little from the V8

from the 900 cc's of raw whitening power and I was thinking we should buy that motorcycle and turn it into a hospitality so the motorcycle yes we'd have to pay to store it but we would ultimately

what would happen is one person could get on the back of the motorcycle you're riding in the front I'm in the side car You put headphones on that Facing them Yes, you put headphones on that person You each have

You have wired AirPods And you each have one in Yeah, I get one, they have one And they can listen to One episode of our podcast Probably not the best one, but And we talk about the podcast with them Yes

And they can give They can see anything they want about it It's fine with me then we give the motorcycle back to Sam at the end of every ride and I have a shirt that says if you're reading this my guest fell off on the front

and you have a shirt that says if you're reading this all as well on the back and it's just thinking about how to take the legacy that we've built and keep building another building on top. Well, the most powerful buildings in the world

are famously often three to four buildings stacked on top of each other. Yeah, because once you see that one building is really working, then... You go, well, this is a great location for building. That one's vetted for a... Mm-hmm. for having

buildings on it and you just put you and then it's time now I'm going to go find a whole new spot and see if that can hold a building not knowing whether it's some sort of swamp and we're inspired by the office ladies ever since

did we ever train the swamp uh yeah no we're going to get around to that next week I'm sure any minute now heard that before yeah right yeah please uh swamps gonna stay wet sorry so i'm gonna be a little marshy and boggy but imagine a drained one a fully drained swamp oh you just run around and there at the bottom oh it would play touch football

flopping little mud bugs i played touch football with the mud bugs yes and the dying frogs no longer have moisture just reach out get a catfish mm-hmm stick them right on my chest you suckle me so I don't even I'd like I don't even need hands to hold them I'm just slapping them on I got a catfish on each nipple just nursing off like like Garfield on my window I'm shaking these two big old catfish around like they're my fairy dope Zongas. Boom.

Hello, boys. I mean, that's living. God, that's making me hope that they do actually drain the swamp. I don't think

they're likely to. But you were talking about the office ladies. We're inspired by the office ladies ever since. My guiding light? They were so gracious when we were all nominated

for best ad reads at the, at the 2012 IHart Radio podcast awards. We're almost due for another nomination. So nice in the green room. The fact that it was their idea for us to all go out, holding hands.

He said whoever wins, we all win. We all go up together. Yes. And they were giving, they were like, they didn't want the mic for maybe the first time ever because they are very good on Mike. They didn't want the mic.

They wanted everyone else to speak first. and talk about, you know, the ads being the lifeblood, obviously, of the podcast industry and how powerful it is and how we all lift each other up and the competition that we feel to do the best ad read, you know, without that, without that driving them, they never would have achieved what they were able to do, which was to talk about, you know, cat litter or whatever they did with a little personal story. um and we never would have done what what we were able to do which was to alienate all of our advertisers to the point that we basically don't have any left uh and that was just so beautiful and it

really to us was a demonstration of like we've got to be like this like we've got to be more more open to you know uh sharing with the other podcasts and also to stealing from them and taking their ideas that year i remember this is like kind of a tangent but i remember as we were like getting down to feel free to go on a tangent though hey award season yes uh and you know we knew that we were gonna be in it we knew we were going to be in the conversation we had a shot we had a shot we didn't have any illusions about being a shoe in or something but we thought look if things break the right way you know you got to go press the flesh and all that and we talked to some different people who were like at the time in like the podcast consulting game that was actually how we met

Mitch yeah Mitch before he decided to cross over was a podcast like consultant like PR type yeah yeah it was sort of um he was kind of like uh Rick Rubin yeah sort of figure just someone who knew everyone and who was at all the parties and just like we just the just under the game better than anyone and he was guiding us on how to really go for it on ad reads and then we heard that the office ladies you mentioned cat litter they were advertising the cat litter that tells you from the peepie whether your cat is sick basically alive or not yeah and they were making their cats on purpose with poison in order to

test it and say this really does my cat work. This stuff. This works for real. This stuff is so good. It had a green skull and crossbones floating off the cat litter. And the poison. And the vomit that the cat

was producing as well was changing the color of the litter. It's making it all vomit colored. And so that was a great indicator for them and for them to put those put those talking points into action and the ads. It was so powerful. Just give it to them right now.

Yeah. They were willing to go further than we were. And we've held ourselves back. We've held ourselves back on this show in a lot of different ways. Not just with ad reads, but with content. I think we've been afraid to go there in the way that they did. They were the first one. Obviously there were most people learned that Osama bin Laden have been

killed captured and killed dumped in the ocean I never saw the body which they also were the first to tell me that that no one was going to see the body they went straight to they were the first to know that there would be an announcement that he was killed

yeah tune in tonight nobody was going to be made available for the media and yeah they were doing the episode about where Stanley gets ripped and they said speaking of Stanley I don't know why that was a segue at all I didn't see the connection then but I know from everything I've learned from then

is that it will it will come to me at some point yeah speaking of Stanley pieces will come together I guess I guess all the letters of seal are in Stanley wow that's so crazy and then you've got the T for team left yeah sure the Y

seal T why didn't they let us see the body yeah the why yeah or that no it's seal and then NY for New York

very respect but more inspiration to come it turns out because we have recently learned that the office ladies because I say look at us we're still doing it

yeah we're still going and that's something that no one can take away from us and the office ladies and us are still going we're all still going but i are the other nominees yeah the i don't know i don't know who they were i don't know where they are but it came to my attention recently because i did think not without some level of glee that we had a good shot to outlast the office ladies because there was a finite number of episodes for for them to recap. And when they reached the end of that road, that they would have to kind of bid their listeners ado and, you know, maybe they would find something else to talk about

or move on from the show, but that it would lose some of its luster. And never did I foresee the gambit that was available to them, which was to just start over at episode one. And the episodes at the office that they sort of shared their memories of for an hour plus on a podcast that they would just talk about it again and just that's they did that they're doing that and potentially some of the same memories

although isn't it kind of an interesting podcast of its own? Yeah like if they don't remember telling the story are you really going to remember listening to it? And I don't know you know, maybe they get a different guest for that episode, but I don't know how often they have guests. I seem to just remember the gals.

So we were nominated, it turns out, in 2019. God. It must have been 2019 because that was the first awards ever. Can you believe that was the first Rihar Radio podcast awards ever? Damn, dude. Want to feel old. And there was not as old as you felt.

There was most being a ball. breakout podcast armchair expert they weren't kidding they didn't know how much breaking out of the sleeves with those big old muscles now Kev how is the TRT therapy going not well it's the first time testosterone has rejected the host

speaking of rejection Josh met Desmond this weekend, and I snapped the pick. A little pouty Desmond looks like he has bitter beer face. And the blanket from Sean and Grace behind. Being held by Josh. Oh, yeah, on the back of that couch. That's the blanket ladies, baby blanket. Yeah, that's right.

That's the same face. When Josh tries to put me on his lap. we actually were maybe nominated in 2020 i guess this is going to take too long to find out but yeah because we were not nominated for best ad read in 2020 so that must be wrong the bookkeeping on these i heart radio awards there's a little something to be desired it's almost as if people aren't taking this seriously as a big awards show anymore so we always Sean and I met on a show called Alan Gregory we met on this show this funny cartoon show that A lot of people have always asked us like, hey, you know, there's these, these hot recap podcast for these shows.

Like, you guys have so much insight into how the sausage was made on this one. Why don't you do it? And we said, well, it was only, it was only half a season. It was only seven episodes and a couple backup scripts. And half a season was all they, was the initial order. That was the order. They didn't cut it short. They actually ordered additional scripts.

I wrote one of them. So they were excited about it. So they were loving it. But we thought, well, if we do that, we can only make seven episodes of the podcast and then we'd be done. And then we'd have to go home and never see each other again. But now we understand, oh, we can just do those seven episodes over and over again. You just keep doing it.

You start back at episode one. And we'll actually remember which stories we told because it's going to be, we're going to do it daily. So it'll be once a week that we start over. And maybe we can innovate on the forum also. where, like, we go episode one, episode two, episode three, then we go back to episode one again. That's cool.

That's cool. And keep them hungry for, oh, I hope they get to four. Oh, they're almost going to get to four. And that could be our thing is like almost getting to episode four. But then we go back to episode two. Then we go back to episode one again. Yeah. Then we do episode four.

Then we go back to episode two, then episode three, then episode one, then episode three then episode four then episode one reunion special then episode two then episode five and by the way I might be able to dig up one of those backup scripts

now are the office ladies having is it the same guests again I don't think so but I honestly don't know I brought up that idea whether they have guests or if they I think they probably try to get a different guest for the episode

to get a different memory I think if we had say French Stewart the voice of Richard on as our guest to discuss episode one then every time we discuss episode one, French Stewart comes back again. That's interesting.

And then we're all on the same page in terms of what our memories are that we've already discussed. And then French can have some accountability on us to be like, hey, you guys talked about that already. You mentioned that. With episode one. So it's all new. Yeah. And French

also has then a specialty. specialty which is episode one he's sort of the episode one historian and then maybe nat faxon jeremy he could be episode four which we're not going to do until like 25 episodes in but he's busy he's busy yeah he's on loot uh okay should we watch some of so what we have here one issue that we're finding so far as we're We were really excited about this idea. We were maybe even going to launch it today. Yeah.

Is that the episodes are not available to be seen. They're not watchable in a traditional way. So a lot of, you know, there's too much TV and then all these streamers and the internet is forever, et cetera. So Alan Gregory doesn't really, uh, doesn't really, uh, doesn't. really hold true to any of those aphorisms. You kind of can't find it. We found one YouTube compilation

that is about 15 minutes long and it's just random lines from different episodes. The episodes are all chopped up out of order. But Alan Gregory highlights Yes. Has 120,000 views on YouTube, which is

almost as many views as it got on TV. On Fox. and we actually so this is such a special time to be doing this i remember uh being really excited for the show to premiere yes because it was premiering after the treehouse of horror episode of the simpsons yes which i had somehow gotten in my head was like maybe the biggest television event in history season 39 of the simpsons tree house of horror episode

yes and that we would just be able to basically ride that wave into shore for the next 10 15 years I did think that it was going to be what I was doing for a while I couldn't help even as I watched some of these highlights

couldn't help but remembering how I thought that this was definitely going to be my job for a long time so let's hit play on this and it looks like we're going to hear from Richard and Jeremy first. This is a really great sort of the core emotional relationship of the show

where Richard Alan Gregory's dad who is wealthy by sort of unclear means I think it's eventually established that his dad has a lot of money anyway he has a partner named Jeremy

who he is forcing to be gay yeah so what we learned through the the show is that Jeremy was a straight man with a wife and family and that Richard became infatuated with him and seemingly just relentlessly bullied him into being in a relationship with him. And it's a classic comedy dynamic, obviously. And this is a relationship that other shows, like a family guy or Simpsons, maybe, if they would ever dare, would do. it as like a one shot joke about like kind of like a fringe character yeah where it's like

oh that's a weird kind of interesting backstory for the character it is the center of the whole show and is uh investigated um multiple times per episode um the idea that uh jeremy does not enjoy the gay sex that he's having so let's hear from let's hear from Richard and Jeremy now. Thank you for coming, everyone. Okay, so, sorry, it was Alan Gregory. Sorry, we saw them on screen. Alan Gregory was out of frame and.

Alan Gregory was lifted in the frame. Jeremy did lift up Alan Gregory. So we won't be hearing from Richard and Jeremy right now, but this is, I believe Alan Gregory's first lines on, on camera in the show. Yeah, well, and I think this is from the not, oh, no, sorry, go ahead. Yeah, there's scenes in one of the things that Kevin said that are, where Jeremy looks different because it's not the actual pilot.

Can we start from the very beginning again, please? Thank you for coming, everyone. Please lower your voices. I'm speaking. Oh, Chloe's here. And then we immediately cut out. So that was one of the early highlights. But I think he did say, hi, Chloe. Yes, but that was not. They didn't include that. That's not one of the highlight. That wasn't part of the highlight. him doing the little wave and saying Chloe's here a highlight

him saying hi Chloe to her in the crowd I think we can cut that you know we got to get moving we only got 15 minutes to do all these highlights this next highlight wow okay how about it's Alan Gregory and go ahead and only address me

is that from now on thanks so much okay I'm sorry I didn't catch you your name it's Miss Winthrop we're on courts sweetheart what's your first name gina but you should never call gina jina can i sing the hallway for a second drink up you know so this is one of the things that there's about 10,000 comments underneath going like and these

are the highlights like this is this show was the most odd funny thing that ever existed and that was and i remember like and maybe it was like the time and like the comedy sensibility has changed but i remember that was

me. I remember pitching he should say what's your name and she should be like what's your name too? They should have a they should have a back and forth because they're just meeting they're just meeting for the first time so like it could be really interesting to see

on screen a little back and forth about what each other's names are. That I want yeah I wanted to be longer and I'll let everyone else fight like what is there like disagreement is that a potential area for conflict I wanted to be longer obviously as well, but I do think

and this is, and this is a little too real. Him say, we're not, a six year old say we're not court sweetheart, what's your first name? I think it's kind of funny. Oh, I like how he says, can I see you at the hallway for a second?

The hallway for his like, I don't know, I thought it was kind of funny. And this might be the fact that the video is from ancient YouTube. The color palette on the show is insane. Yeah, this is Global HD, which I believe is

like the Canadian television station that plays a lot of cartoons. It also was the home to Bob and Doug, the McKenzie Brothers animated show. Maybe something went wrong in the transmission. Dave Thomas made. The character Richard looks like a sheet of print of paper. He has no nose

because of how washed out. Of how white he is. Yeah. Yes. Okay, so now we're actually cutting back to... We're going back to the scene that we cut out of. And if you'll recall, he doesn't say hi, Chloe, in the cut that we had before. So let's see what else happens. Knuckleheads, have a blast.

It's our night, you crazy. Chloe, where are you? We did call back to Chloe. So for some reason, we inserted into the middle of it, a scene from the classroom at school. That, him even being at the school happens 10 minutes later in the show from this scene, which got sliced up. I like that on this show, you can watch it. You can really tell when we liked something. if hi if chloe where are you hi chloe was doing well in the room yeah in the room then it would almost

be selfish to hold back on referencing chloe chloe where are you yes uh because it had done so well just a second ago let's do let's do an instant callback there was a lot of that Can I happen on the landline? Alan Gregory. What are we down on nine to get out? Is it nine? Alan Gregory. And that was a cut as well after he says is it nine.

I think we will cut back to the end of that scene pretty shortly. I don't know why we go to the teacher saying Alan Gregory very slowly, which I always was confused by this line read. And this is not to call anyone out, but who whose voice was this? Leslie Mann, of course. yes okay let's keep going I am your teacher and I need you to respect that oh no no no no I totally will respect that if you can respect that we are on the same exact level authority wise now we're going back to the dial nine so this is like kind of a which this is a piece I think that works better when it is all together yes because he is going to say sort of the the punch line as it is it were baby I pick up hit nine and then dial what Joe So that was another really fun dynamic in the show is that he is a little boy and he wants to have sex with his principal. Yeah, who's, I think, stated to be in her 60s, but really looks like probably even older. And he has a lot of sexual fantasies about her.

and this was a place where they did basically everything with Stewie except that. Yeah. Him being like really hypersexual. Yes. And so we sort of thought, should we do that? And just that? That was going to be sort of in the same way that the Jeremy Richard dynamic we described earlier was very thoroughly explored in every episode.

Also, Alan Gregory, wanting to have sex with a woman in her 60s, not just having like a crush, but actually wanting to have sex with her was like very much foregrounded by the show. It was something that got probably the most attention on the show and is a lot of people's main memory from it, is that in the pilot, he does in a daydream sequence, recreate the, part of the Mark Wahlberg movie Fear where he fingers reached Witherspoon on a roller coaster, but is a six-year-old boy and you know, geriatric woman who is the principal of his school.

Can we read some of the comments please just to get some like reactions in real time to what we're seeing here? Can you zoom in just a little bit? Okay. scroll up it's like they were trying to go

for more upper class Dewey Griffin but failed miserably okay I kind of sort of copying what I just said someone conscientiously watched this show and actually picked these specific clips and called them highlights dear God

I don't even want to know the low lights are like okay well I have issues with the highlight not just the highlight selection but also how they're presented I don't think we're totally being fair to the material here no I do think that this person was sort of flexing some editing skills

to the detriment of some of the comedic moments that they were trying to highlight and have made them worse than they were not that they would work necessarily on their own or that they did you know for a larger audience but but still um for those of you wondering why this show got canceled let me take a stab at it i think what the writers were going for was to have a smug arrogant child be redeemed and made humble and likable by the public school system and the regular non-rich kids he interacted with the problem was that this show hit you over the head with a sledgehammer with how arrogant and stuck up ag and his biological father were that it was simply too much there was

simply no way people were going to wait the amount of time it would take for agie to grow grow up. Plus, the show had no other redeeming qualities at all, i.e. being funny. I do. So that, so this person, they're, they're so wrong. I'm not even going to argue over whether it was funny. That was never the goal of the show. And I do want to get, before we get out of here, not because I'm in it. I want to get to the featureette for a different reason, which is you hear everyone describing what the show is, the creators and Jonah and the, and the, a showrunner David Goodman. And you'd get a little sense

that they just haven't quite dialed in even amongst themselves. They haven't gotten their story straight, exactly. Yeah. It's like the way David described it is a different character, really, that Jared did you're talking about. I think that comes through.

Coming, everyone. Please lower your voices. I'm speaking. I've traveled the world, folks. I've written genre-shattering novels, mediated peace talks. You all know my resume. But I'm about to embark on the biggest...

Here, that's Jeremy, the old Jeremy. He looks very different. With children my own age. Alan Gregory's a show about the world's most pretentious seven-year-old. He's been homeschooled by his father's. Extremely sheltered. And now they've run out of money, and Alan Gregory has to go back to public school. With kids, his own age.

And he just finds that disgusting. He thinks they're animals. Here's a seven-year-old boy who has argued for fuel cell technology on Capitol Hill and his friends with Sandy Bullock, really good friends, and now suddenly has to be back in a lunchroom with bullies. It's a little delusional.

I guess delusional is a good way to put it. There I am. But does it feel... There you are. Yes, I remember that uniform. Yeah, down at the end of the table, me, Jake Johnson, and Will Forte in our own little corner,

Lacey Sheabair just off to my left. so does feel similar the character that they're describing but one is listing like real accomplishments that he's had the other was talking about him being really sheltered yes one saying delusional one saying the most pretentious but they're they can exist together but it just doesn't feel like we really got got the same character locked in before we went to these interviews for the feature at does it and one of them ended up losing yes in this argument

and it was david goodman well yeah and i think the network always saw the character as a child genius who had sure a lot of accomplishments which is also how they open he says that he's written these uh genre shattering novels but yes the creators that decided that wasn't true wasn't true confusing way to introduce a character that he's just live. That his family had just been making him think that he had all these accomplishments and also making David and the network

think that he had those accomplishments. When they agreed to do the show. So it was, they were insistent that the child was not a genius, but he did speak completely differently from everyone his own age, who all acted and talked like little kids and he did it. So

David says he's argued for fuel cell technology on Capitol Hill, and then Will Forte comes in and says he's kind of delusional. Yeah. Talking, I think possibly about David. Anyway, fun show. Uh-huh. So we'll do this again tomorrow. Oh, yeah. Bye. Hollywood Hamburg. Hi, I'm Beck Bennett. I thought I was Beck Bennett. No, no, no, no. I'm Kyle Mooney. Sorry about that. Exactly. No, all good. All good. Thanks, buddy. Yeah, and we host a show what's our podcast here on HeadGum. But we want to make sure you heard about a very special episode with a very special

guest that we just released in the feed. Yeah, it's in the feed. It was sponsored by Squarespace because they were appalled. They were, that we didn't have a website for our show yet. They were like... You don't have a website? What are you guys? Like kindergartners?

They wanted to do something about that. So we built a flawless, beautiful, perfectly designed website live on the pod with our very special guests and very web-savvy guests. Should we tell them who it was? Let's put we could play 20 questions. I don't think we have time for that. Is it a person? No, it's not.

It's Finn Wolfhard. But Finn had a bunch of great ideas for the website. Beck, you had some amazing ideas for the website too. You had some amazing ideas for this thing. I was sort of driving the thing. I was sort of like clicking and... And I was like, let's put a little... Let's put some widgets in there. I was talking about widgets.

You kept on using that phrase widgets. Yeah, there's all sorts of stuff there. You might want to check out the hippo. Just go check out the website. Just know that there's a hippo video and know that you're going to want to watch that. We had a lot of fun making this episode. We had a lot of fun making this website. I think you're going to have a fun time listening to it and maybe watching it.

Think of it as our little Christmas present to you. Yeah, yeah, this is a gift for you, okay? It's just like, it's a selfless thing we did for you. Thanks to Squarespace for making us build a website, sponsoring the episode, and for supporting creators across the Headgum Network. Go check out the bonus episode. What's our website from what's our podcast on YouTube or wherever you listen to podcasts? Go to Squarespace.com slash Beck and Kyle for a free trial.

And when you're ready to launch, use offer code. Beck and Kyle Yes, sir To save 10% off your first purchase Of a website or domain Get it, Kyle I'm looking for like Yeah

The book Can I stop and re-record Do you mind if I do? No, go ahead What do you mean? I just want to make sure I'm recording Should I get the book Like to have it like

By the way, when is this going to come out? Can I ask you that question? Twelve hours. Twelve hours. Yeah. Oh, okay. Oh, this is a good. this is like before the book comes out okay great so what did you want um January okay I mean

you begged to be on the fucking show well that's why I don't want to say I mean like and like three or four messages and we're like following up yeah and so it's like I didn't know so I guess do that in January my question is do you think with a book that you can just say like you can release the book and say hang on a second let me start the book over Yeah. Is that how the book works? Is that the plan? Because you said it's not out yet. Is the plan going to be to release the book and people buy it and then their doorbell rings and it's you and you say, well, you let them read let them read like four pages. So they're just like, oh, okay, I might fuck with this book a little bit. And you're like, sorry, sorry, sorry. Give me that. Hang on. I'll see what the response is. Right. If people aren't liking it, I am willing to go back and rewrite the to show up at their door with a different book. Yeah. Or it's like, you know, tailored to them. Like what's. that I think they might appreciate more and you asked if you should get the book and the answer is I don't know

I do know that I should get the book oh yes and I actually should already have it I should be able like I should be holding it just something something to a little piece of business for me to do with my hands I have so I have the book the books at home I don't think you'd be that like blown away to see the book like if I had the book

here and sometimes people do this and this happened we recently had one of these book guys actually the last book guy who came on here we were actually in the fucking book the podcast i don't see you doing that no but you are obviously you haven't finished it because you know there's a really big pivotal scene that's all about the hollywood handbook guys but we get these we get these guys who did a book and they're like i love you guys and and i've got a book you're obsessed with us that's fine and they show up and they're like the last guy didn't even give us a book he's like oh i thought i sent you one then it's like hey like let me send you the book and it comes no note there's no note with it for me just a little message just yes yeah it's like oh

i actually know the author he sent me this book and it's like really what does the note say Oh, there isn't one. Well, I feel like the book itself is the note. You know, like that contains everything I want to say. But that's the note to anyone who wanted to buy it. Literally Kevin could buy it. And he would have the exact same thing that I do. The note to Kevin.

The lowest scum of the earth. The worst person you know just made a great point. The worst person you know could buy the book. And that's it. Like, they would have the same thing I did. They'd get the same note from you. so it's like what special about me having it if there's not a note do you feel this way hayes i wrote a note you're saying you wrote a note

to casey anthony yeah with your book and the note says i love you so when people are like what inspired you to write all your ideas you're basically saying i wanted to write a note to casey anthony yeah that's right i mean and every other terrible person you wrote a note to glain maxwell Galane Maxwell Yeah And so it's like That I don't know

Not a choice I might have made Um Let me just say Let's just get this out of the way And this is my Yes let's get this out of the way for sure Please To like to Galane Maxwell

Hey turn that off Turn this off now Yeah I mean that's sort of what your podcast is right It's to all of the Galane Maxwell's out there well no actually no that's what you do that's what you do you're talking about you because we make a podcast which is enjoyed by dozens of people yourself included and listen to by and then when we if we have a special guest someone we love and care about and we want them to have a personalized sort

of experience with the art, and it is an art form that we create here in this studio, um, we include a little podcast voice note for them when we send them the episode. We say, we think you'd like this one. And by the way, thank you for everything that you do, not something I've heard yet today. Um, but it is, it is Stephen Fishback here. He wrote a book called escape. Some of our listeners, viewers will know him as a two-time loser on the show. Survivor got his ass kicked up and down the island by just about everybody. A total of 11th place on the show.

Is that right? Yeah, second place and ninth place and ninth place. So it ends up in 11th place. Yeah. Ninth, but I feel like it should have been seventh. Right. I kind of feel, you know, so there was a big cast back then, you know, big ass cast, big, 20 people cast. Yeah. Forget it. So, um, but you, so you wrote the book and the book is about some sort of island reality show. Yeah, I looked inside myself, you know, trying to like think of what was the most creative kind of outside the box thing I could do. And that was what I came up with.

yeah so you know again we've had a bunch of people on here who write books and it's like every time someone writes one they're just like act like it's like so fucking hard can i can like i and i got what the show was supposed to be and i know what it's a proxy for like i understood i don't think the like fake name you used i don't think i don't think you should have called the show saliva it just doesn't to me it's at the same time too close and too far from what you're and I did get it but I'll say I already got it before you mentioned the name which you did with like basically like a real like drum roll like get ready here like well yeah half the chapter is about like and the show's name was a big

part of what made it successful way to everyone said the name the name was everywhere and when you read it you're going to freak out dear reader as I type it for you now one letter at a time at the first letter is a letter that is the letter S and I knew it was going to be that I did need that much and the whole book is in that style where it's just like it just feels like you're trying to draw out something that maybe could have been a little bit dropped off for me you know hearing you say it you know I do kind of now I'm pronouncing it wrong no no I'm saying I now see where someone could make that connection with Survivor the show I was on saliva as I was imagining it was all about taste you didn't mean to make the connection to Survivor the show you

were on you can only now see you didn't realize that it rhymes are making some of the letters are the same it's a totally fictional show purely from my imagination and you know it's all about so it's did you say sorry coming up for you now that this show in your book is like the show survivor i have another

problem which is you said the show is all about taste well saliva well yeah but i just thought the excitement was mouth watering hmm see i should have consulted you guys before

i wrote the book that i'm drooling waiting for the next episode like some of the drooling cretons who watch this reality drivel unbelievable this is what society is now we used to go to the opera

we used to see the opera that used to be what we did we actually physically went to the theater and we watched he had absolutely no choice and he's a fucking coward yeah um so you the book is not there right now huh the book is in another room completely well it's across this room can i is that weird to go get it the book so like i mean does it do anything oh no one

we do without you on the show room drag you know i'm just going to stay i have to traverse yeah the room my office take out my earphones oh i'm afraid if you get my wagon train to go across my office. It's so big. If you left frame for a moment, I just don't know what I would do. He comes back. He like ate a little piece of himself. He got so hungry on his journey.

There he goes. He's still gone. I am kind of scared actually now that he's gone. I mean, it's been a really long time. That office can you catch me up? Stephen. Yawning. You've been gone

for five years. Stephen A lot has changed But you guys are still there We both married your wife Yeah We both married your wife sorry She didn't know what to do

I should have started with that We both married your wife Social norms have changed in the In five years Not really not that much No it's not We're getting some Sideways looks

We said that that was the last thing that you had said before going on your journey I couldn't totally make out what you were saying because you were taking the Please marry my wife And that's also I should mention We did not end up releasing

The episode The episode ended up not releasing And it really hurt the book It was only 10 minutes And like we could have capitalized I guess on your presumed death Which people presumed so fast It was instant

It was like if you don't see him probably The guy's not doing great to begin with. I think it's probably good the episode never released since it was talking about saliva. I feel like it's good that I won't have that out there. Well, you brought it up. I completely forgot about the whole saliva thing.

No. But it's still top of mind for you, huh? Also, the fact that saliva is also a mascot type character. Yeah, like a slimer type figure, but he's made of spit. But it doesn't sound that much like him. Yeah. He does kind of the same things.

Like he eats. a lot and like i guess that's the taste thing and i and i mean that's to your point about it you know it not being as much like survivor there is no slimer in that show no there's a smoke monster sure and there's a hatch on survivor okay richard hatch and and what that has to do with i was talking about a monster like a green creature and you're like and there's a hatch well yeah there's a lot of other shit too yeah are you name every single one well let's just go through no let's let them get it let's let him get it it's nothing to do step it's got a lot list of things that are on that are not slimer I'm so go

ahead like I'll just chill out and like you just say all the things that aren't slime this is taking me back that are on the show took five years ago like this is I really thought it was behind me but I this is why I honestly and this is going to sound cruel now because you're here but I was so relieved when you disappeared for five years just this weight was lifted off me that I didn't realize I had been carrying you know well thank you for supporting my family in that challenging time yeah I mean that no that part rocked yeah yeah just it just was a lot of fun. Yeah. Let's uh, just sing alongs around the fire. Let's see the book. Yeah, give me a, give me a shot of the book. This is a paper back. Sing alongs around the fire. Sorry,

I should say, we all did survivors of family and we won. Oh my gosh, family survivor. Yeah. Wow. That's really, we did. Well, it was the first time they ever let a family participate as like one contestant. Yes. But that's how close of a family we were. We all had to, we all had to agree on who we were voting for but it was it was like blood versus water but it was just stephen's wife two guys his kids your kids versus he's sorry yes our kids our kids as well yeah and your wives well now yes our yes our wife mm-hmm yeah but it's a good season i bet show's kind of back mm-hmm they had to try something yeah that that definitely i'm sure made some some headlines did you get the call for season 50

no i think i'm the one i think i'm the one person who they didn't call for season 50 all right let's see it so this is it's called escape since you what i was doing in the last five years was i was the saliva thing should it be legal to call a book this you know it's like it's like yelling fire in a crowded theater like is Is it actually safe? Well, the exclamation point, I think, is what really makes it a problem. Right, because it becomes clearly a command. Like, you have to escape this bookstore right now.

Well, yeah, I mean, it was, it's like steal this book, but instead it's escape this bookstore. Yeah. Which like, okay, that's actually, I guess, where I've found the limit of what free speech should permit. maybe we dig back into the old constitution is that where we put that stuff just dig back into that thing and uh yeah seems like we kind of forgot kind of redo it and go uh and that makes me wonder if stephen was actually holding us together freedom of speech you know protest assembly whatever except for stephen yeah some of that stuff did kind of go downhill after stephen disappeared in that five year period where stephen was gone i just like i didn't think there was a connection

at all, but like now that I'm starting to dig back into it and reconsider it, now that Stephen is back that makes me think that Stephen not the person I would have suggested to be like the one who was kind of holding society.

A lot of invisible work going on if he was the one responsible for some of that stuff staying. I mean, he did say that societal norms had changed in the past five years and I did say no, they haven't. I mean, there's probably other stuff going on. Some of them did, yeah.

It can't justify me, right? Like, there must have been other... He's talking about the marriage stuff. That didn't... No, that's... Yeah, that's kind of normal. Mm-hmm. Free speech, that's what really changed.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. So the book has an exclamation point. Mm-hmm. So deciding. Exclamation point right in the name of the book. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

And is there another one inside? I think there are a few. I really tried to use all the punctuations, you know? That was a goal of yours. Like, get as many of the different punctuations. Every keyboard. You said I paid a lot for this keyboard. I'm going to use the whole fucking thing.

The interabang, like I use that quite liberally. That's two keys. Well, you know, I want it's not its own. Yeah, it just doesn't fit what we're saying. So what we're talking about is that every symbol, on the keyboard would get used and you're saying that two of the more commonly used symbols that you would do them together which is fine it's sort of like being like I want to use every letter and then you going like yeah and I did the TH sound a lot and it's like okay but we're going like

Z it's not you know like that completely off what we were saying it's not not but at the same time it is but that's you know that's your you're the writer i do want to um i do want to talk about your writing because we did you know we did sort of communicate via DM via text uh in order to secure you as a guest on this show and the messages i got are long And it could be a good way because we don't have the book here in studio to read to anyone. Do you want to read eight or nine pages of the book right now? No. I mean, I mean, I do, you know, but I don't want, you know, I don't want to subject others. I mean, I do want to subject them, but you know, not for free, not for free.

Okay. So this is, this is like what you're like. So let me just read. So I'll read the first message. There's like three or four messages that we got and we just, if you're going to be trying to go on other shows if you're going to be writing more books maybe we can go over what uh what might help hey Sean first of all congratulations on the dink this is a good start see there you go acknowledging me positive words and then he says which sounds sublime so there you go what more could you ask for you know what Hemingway you said about Faulkner

he said he's he said he said congratulations that he said he said Faulkner thinks I don't know the the ten dollar words I know him I just don't need to use them sublime come on congratulations on that's

just say it sounds neat just say it sounds neat I know what you mean nifty yeah bitching You know, just be a guy. Tight. I wanted to see if I could send you a galley of my novel. I don't know.

Can you? The book's set in a jungle reality show and comes out on January 27th. No expectation that you'll read it. Well, I haven't. But I plan to. But early buzz is that this is the best novel ever. Sight your sources then. If that's real, you have to tell me who said it.

I mean, so many. It's hard to pick one. Probably my wife, my new wife. Obviously, it would be a fantasy to be a guest on the pod. I feel confident I could do as well as Rob C., Rob Sester Nino, two-time guest, and only slightly worse than Cochran, two-time guest. When I listen, I find myself giving my own responses to your guys' questions,

like people who play along to Jeopardy. This is getting embarrassing. Don't do that. Yeah. The whole point is that it's embarrassing. Or do you want to do them now? Yeah. Get off some of your,

what are some of the good responses you've had? Okay. Ooh, this is a good. This is good. This is good. Oh, you know, I had a list. I had a list. I was like taking notes of all the good responses to like past.

Oh, there was one. It's across the room again. Yeah. This guy's going to leave. We'll never see him again. Yeah. I'm afraid of what's going to happen. happen. Oh, I mean, I really was like I had a whole, you know, I was ready to give you some of my past responses to jokes. His office goes like dips below the horizon line. The other thing is like, do you think he had all these books behind him before he became like a guy who's selling a book? Honestly, at the beginning of this call, he didn't have the behind him. Right. Yes. And so when he was like, actually, can I start over real quick? Did you see him put all those books on the show?

I gotta be like a guy who knows about the facades of the books, right? The backs of the books. There's not the full book. It's just like the spines. Not sure if this is how it works. It's so much harder to do than just to put the books on there. To like cut the spines off and then just like glue them all together. Like that shows real love, like love of book to me.

Defacing the book. Yeah. Not sure if this is how it works in the biz where you just ask to be on a show you want to get on. It does with this. show that's okay with this show i figure the worst case scenario is i humiliate myself but doing that over email is no worse than doing it on cbs primetime which i've done a little flex at the end right writing back when prime time mattered and this is all like this is ernie right we need to be like looking to ernie for this every sentence should be fist every sentence is fist. Ters, masculine

pros. Say it with me now. Ters. Ters. Mascualine. Pros. See, I misheard you. Muscular. Muscular bros. Mm-hmm. Pros before bros.

Oh, pros. Pros. Pros. I thought he said bros. I thought he said terse, masculine bros. Like boys. I ain't not against that either. Hmm. but I think that some of this writing is literally asking for permission you got to tell me what I'm going to do for you what what form did this come in Instagram DM Instagram DM

you hit right message greetings cock Greetings is not a terse I feel like greetings I could do better than you know Greetings cock It sets you up though It's the it's the little jab that Gets your chin open for that right cross Leads into the cock

The cock October 11th Or just like 10 11 Right I see just kind of say the day And then a Zoom link But you've converted it into a bitly link yeah

that's how short it is a personalized bitly link bit dot lye slash come mm-hmm that's what I'll send to Rogan you gotta get on there

such a big overlap anyone who goes on here we're such a stepping stone Oh, yes. It's always like, it's like, hey, can I please be on your show? Then we teach you how to ask to be on a show. And then it's like, next thing I know, you're on Rogan. I think that the idea that Hayes has to force me to click that bitly link is good.

I think I would even go a step further to, you show up at my door with a baseball bat and a video camera uh-huh like Ernie linen shirt you drove an airboat there uh-huh Ernie the Muppet

Big fan boat Yeah Ernie Hemingway Oh okay Come on man Right Your fan boat destroyed the street

and the boat shards of boat and street everywhere you ask me hey brother you like being able to kiss with those big soft lips I don't know what I go I guess so yeah you go kiss this

and what's the this is that the bat. And you're holding the bat, like you're drawing it back like a bow and arrow. So it's even more this isn't a game. This is a weapon. Yeah. You've got a completely taught. And that's like extra kissable.

It's trained on me. Oh yeah. Because it's like that round like the sort of concave part of it. Yeah. Kissing the butt. Yeah. You can put your whole mouth in there. Yeah. No, it might go, might go straight through my head. and then I'm going like, hey, what's this about, man? Like, I just like, you know, it's, it's 3 a.m.

Like, you should be wearing a baseball jersey, too. Right. That's Savannah bananas, right? The Savannah bananas. Yeah, probably. But Sean doesn't know who I am in this scenario, right? So maybe your jersey should say the Stevens. Oh, and maybe like, right, really spell out.

That could be helpful. Stephen bananas. Just so we're like showing, not telling, you know what I mean? So you're like, who is? this well he plays for a team called the stephen so this must be stephen yeah he's got to be the main guy on it they let him take the bat home yeah so it's all you know it's all very nice it's uh it's the kind of thing where what you do is you finally pull the bat out of my throat right and then say and you say are you ready to play ball or what

and then do we come to the studio like do we drive together do we drive separately well i'm dead in this scenario he had a bat that went like through my head for a long time so like uh yeah i guess you're driving like you know you can drive together but you're driving yeah the fan boat is you know yeah so you're going to have to take his car kind of ruined yeah so yeah so So I guess you'd take my car. So, Hayes, would you do the podcast at that point? Would you do that episode? I mean,

if that were Sean's, like, last wish, that that's what he really wanted, would I do a show? Or it's just me and you and Sean is sitting there with a bat just like protruding from the back of my head. The center of his head. no probably that i don't think i would do that show that's why i don't think that's an effective strategy i said no bye hollywood hamburger that was a headgum podcast hi i'm nicole buyer hi i'm

sashir zameda and this is the podcast best friends and we're here at headgum so this is a podcast where we just talk. Yeah. We're best friends. Yeah. We talk. And then we have a segment where we answer questions and queries.

So audience and users can ask questions about friendships and we can answer them to the best of our abilities. Yes. We are professional friends. We are professional friends. Subscribe to Best Friends on Spotify, Apple Podcast, PocketCast, or wherever you get your podcast and watch videos on YouTube. New episodes drop every Wednesday.

That's the middle of a work week. I was deeply unhelpful to you during that whole thing I'm really sorry I felt the support I was so okay I was trying to be supportive but I was like I don't know reading seems pretty hard right now it's a lot I think you did good thank you so much you're welcome