Hollywood Handbook - Tracey Wigfield, Our Close Friend

Episode Date: November 24, 2014

Sean and Hayes get in a very heated discussion about a phenomenon called anti-comedy. Then, close friend TRACEY WIGFIELD is in the studio to talk about being a female writer, what happened behind the scenes at 30 Rock with Judah's hat,  and full mouth kissing her boyfriend. Finally, the Popcorn Gallery is back to ask Tracey about being popular, winning an Emmy, and her joke victory dance.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is a HeadGum Podcast. really what you want you want her to sing the hook on this track and he turns and he's sort of awkward and he's looking at skylar and she's looking back and it's just like and he goes like uh sort of yeah and i go okay that's fine and i go oh i guess i'll just uh take Mr. Pibb and be on my way. And I grab it, and as I'm pulling it away from the soundboard, I pour it all over the soundboard, and it electrocutes him through the microphone. He's so awkward. He really is. It's like, just be a person.

Well, just tell me. Just be a person. I don't give a shit. You want that shit on your fucking song? You want her to sing like, I mean, you've heard the way she sings. It's like. It's like, you don't want any texture to it. I mean.

Some of that grab. All the greatest singers couldn't sing. Yes. Yes. Dylan. You know, guys like that. So it's like, to me, that's what what's cool but it's like yeah you want if you want some grub you want some tom wait bring me in which is i think what his producer was initially

thinking when he invited me and then it's like oh i just thought it'd be kind of a pretty like la la la it's like okay fine but fucking have the balls and dick to tell me that hey welcome to hollywood headbook an insider's guide to kicking butt and dropping names in the red carpet lineback hallways of this industry we call showbiz. What up, what up? We like to, we participate in movies and TV and music and books, but we also like to discuss it in sort of intellectual terms and even be thinking about it as a school sometimes. Yes.

It does sometimes feel like something of a school with classes. And so there's a bit of studying to be done. Or a salon. You hear about the old days and people actually used to get together and they used to have ideas and they used to gather in a parlor and somebody would stand up and announce their idea and then there would just be an intellectual discussion which when's the last time you remember even having one of those no and it's Orson Welles would come in and play violin, and everyone would sort of just bounce around these different ideas, and so it fed your brain the food of ideas, which it needs to grow fat and plump and rich with knowledge.

And so Hayes and I are almost trying to recreate that sort of environment. And what we want to talk about today is a trend that we've spotted in our beloved entertainment industry. Yes. And it's sort of known as anti-comedy. So we've talked about rando humor. We love it. Skittles commercials.

Old Spice commercial. Yes. Tostito commercial. Totino. And you know the laugh. commercial Totino The little pizza commercial And I'm going to do the laugh for you now And what I have to do in order to get this laugh out Is just picture something like maybe

Okay a guy turns to his friend But the friend is Maybe a gnome And the gnome is going It's the traveling gnome Okay it's the traveling gnome and the gnome goes Hey, quit. It's the traveling gnome. Okay, it's the traveling gnome and the gnome goes, hey, quit hogging the remote, bub. And so this is how I would laugh at something like that

because I'm expecting his friend to be a full-size human. So this is how I'd laugh at something like that. What? What? It does, it reduces you to monkey state. It activates sort of that part of your lizard brain, which in this case is a monkey part. Yes, and I'm always thinking about, like, on the most base level,

why do these reflexes exist in my lizard brain? And sort of these bases are the sort of place where it reminds me to breathe and sometimes tells me to laugh like, what? And so rando humor talking about the lizard signed off on it and it's great and uh unfortunately it has something of an ugly twin sister and that is the anti-comedy and this is the i hesitate to even describe it as a joke, but the joke is that they don't do a joke. So yeah, you've got edgy guys like Kimmel who's suddenly on my TV screen and how'd he get there? And he sometimes is doing something where his joke is that he's like not doing a joke and just being there.

And then there's other guys who do it, young guys, everyone on this. There's a whole channel of adult swim people and they're doing, it's a talking milkshake or something and that's a joke or something called a squid billy. And I'm so baffled by it and i think all of this dates back to the nefarious and sinister andy kaufman who stole jokes from comedy and made it so that people could not do comedy and say that was it and now all of a sudden it's a whole movement and they've tricked us i just can can't stop. Can't stop you.

It sounds like you don't like this. I don't like it one bit, Hayes. It's, it's so upsetting to me when people are doing something where they're not sort of doing a joke. Oh, I mean, Kaufman, I mean the stuff kaufman did it's like tedium is the humor i mean he's you know he's making me endure his act i'm sorry when you said that you wanted to talk about anti-comedy i thought that we were going to talk about how it was the good and it was being a genius because that's actually my position on this. I think Kaufman is a genius.

And some of the things he did were some of the bravest, most radical, earth-shaking things. And it actually changed the trajectory of comedy forever. And to separate comedy from laughter, you can trace the path now. Like Louis today like you watch a show like louis and how does he'll just go through an entire episode and like you're always anticipating the the joke and the laugh and it's like the joke is is is about to come it's always about to come but then it's like the joke is happening post credits but post credits but louis all the way back to kman, the first genius.

But Louis got the goods. I've seen Louis stand there and talk about his dick like it's an old man. And that, to me, is somebody who's actually willing to say the things that we're thinking about when we're looking at our dicks. So, to me, that guy's got the goods and he's proven he has the right to do a show with no jokes in it and tell me that it's a comedy show sometimes because sometimes he did do jokes but to me that's him selling out and that's him to pay for he is a genius but he's trying to have it both ways when he's a modern day philosopher Kaufman never did I mean, Kaufman's only joke was to not do the joke. The joke to me of Kaufman, and I'll tell you some of the stuff that he did do that I'm really not crazy about.

When he was doing Taxi, and when he was just there, and he was just like being a funny little man, and he was trying to do silly, goofy things. Yes, like he was from a space alien or something. That's not the kind of thing I'm into. The kind of stuff he did that I like is when he would just stand on a stage and just read a book. And it's like, oh, God. Haze, haze, haze.

Imagine being a part of that show and listening to a man just read a book, and you're supposed to be laughing, and you're not sure, and you're a little bit scared. Taxi worked because sharp writing and surrounded by a dynamite ensemble. You got Danzy, you got Lloyd, you got DeVito, you got Hemingway, and they can buoy the sinking ship that is an Andy Kaufman comedic piece. Now, when he's reading a book, guess what, pal? I could

read a book, and I could do it without having to pay 15 bucks to go. But you don't, Sean, do you? Are you reading a book? I have kids to raise. And so, when I'm going to a comedy show, it's for an escape, and I'm not trying

to escape into a question where I'm going oh is he ever gonna get to the joke so to me that's not genius and he's the original troll i would say and we don't like trolls we used to challenge people in our comedy we used to not just go and it comes back to lizard brands honestly because the way we seek out laughter right now is like eating sugar and fat it's like eating sugar and fat. It's like eating sugar and fat. And now evolutionarily, we've come to a point where sugar and fat is everywhere. We don't need it anymore, but we still seek it out and we eat pizza and we eat candy bars. Okay. I agree with

you on the diet stuff. And sure, there's comedy like that. And I've been guilty of laughing at it sometimes. But if you want to really challenge people with comedy why don't you give me some of the guys on Mount Truthmore I'm talking Carlin I'm talking Hicks I'm talking Lenny fucking Bruce and I'll throw Chris Rock in there and I'll throw me as well these are guys who they challenge you by actually challenging you. They say, hey, this is what's going on and this is what I think about it. And this is some of the swear words that we ought to be allowed to say that people don't want us to say. And we're going to say them anyway.

And another thing, race. Andy Kaufman was able to communicate those same ideas without actually having to be like, this is like, here, I'm going to spell it out to you in so many words, and I'm going to tell you exactly how to feel, and I'm going to be like a teacher. I'm going to stand at the front of the room and say, this is the way things are. Andy Kaufman was able to go on stage and read a book like The Big Gatsby, and that would be sort of a commentary on this is what we used to define as entertainment, and now is that different?

Is it the same? Here's why Andy Kaufman is a failure. Yes, it's absurd to read a book on stage as your comedy act. And yes, absurdity can be comedy, but the right kind of absurd is a unicorn walks in the room and asks if he can borrow a couple eggs. That's absurd in a way that's actually very funny. I like that too. That's something that makes me go, what? That's what I'm looking for from absurd humor.

What he's doing is something absurd that's actually not humor. I don't see why those things can't coexist. And I just wish a comedian today would have the bravery to do something genius like Kaufman did. Like if Aziz or somebody, why isn't Aziz doing like boxing? I don't remember exactly what it was, but Kaufman once, like he did a whole boxing like display and I remember he was definitely he was wearing the shirt and he got his ass handed to him on the Letterman show and that's about the only time I did like seeing him is when he cut out a line and somebody finally put that little shrimp in his place well isn't that some kind of statement that if he's supposed to be doing comedy and like instead he's like using boxing gloves?

And is that like, how does that translate to what we expect from comedy? Explore that. So we're going to use boxing gloves to do an absurd piece of comedy. Yes. What do you think Hicks would have done with something like that? He probably would have written the N word on one of them and hit himself in the face with it. And then he would have written Jay Leno on the other one and shoved Doritos in it like it was eating Doritos

because he didn't like that Jay did those commercials. All these words, words, words, words, and writing stuff down and speaking and things instead of just making an animal sound and sort of going. Andy Kaufman used to just do like a meep, meep, meep. Like he would just get on stage and do these little meeps and people would show up expecting words and he would give them something different from what they were expecting.

And that's what a challenge is. Okay. Give me something different from what I'm expecting, but make it a pleasant surprise. You know, if I go in, I'm expecting. Since when is comedy being pleasant? Since when do we have to like show up at the dinner party as comedy and bringing like a nice bottle of wine and just like a fucking pasta salad? Like it's so fucking bougie. Okay, okay.

This is what we need from our comedy now. It's candy bars. It's candy bars. It's candy bars. That's bougie. Hayes, you're the one. It's a fucking Snickers bar. Hayes, you're the one who talked about lizard brains today, and I think it's important that we actually explore

why comedy is satisfying to our lizard brains. It's a relief. It's a release. It's letting the other monkeys know that the danger has passed, and now our tribe is safe and we can enjoy this tension release that is going to allow us to sort of feel as a community. And so what Andy's doing is trying to exclude everyone from his joke. But what somebody like Carlin is doing when he does his bit about how baseball has the

seventh inning stretch but football has the two minute warning you know that to me that is something we can all agree on and how funny is it that the language is different between two sports now and that is something i like too too. And I like Louie! And I like Louie! Okay, but Louie is Kaufman, Sean. No, no, no! He is, he is. Because he softened me up.

It's challenging in the same way. He softened me up by doing some real humor that talks about things that I, as a doughy middle-aged man, can understand. But Kaufman didn't do that. He never was a human first. He started as a creature, and he remained one. And that creature is a troll, and he's the original troll, and we want them off the internet, and I want them off my Mount Truthmore for sure

and maybe off some other parts of comedy too. And so goodbye anti-comedy and I won't be shedding too many tears when you're gone and you're a fad and the only thing that really sticks around is giving it straight in your face, having the goods, backing it up and being a big dog like me chris lenny george and fucking bill dog i mean i i'm sorry that you feel that way and yeah i'm sorry you're gonna end up with all the other people they're just like in wally at the end of wally where they're just everyone's fat and they're just going around in a little ship because that's the direction we're going we're just consuming our entertainment just like if you ever read david foster wallace you would actually

have any idea what this was about and just too many footnotes they're just like eating too many footnotes just like requiring oh pleasure i'll read them i'll read them but put the thing you're talking about all the time you know i'll read Foster Wallace. Hook me up to a sugar IV. Put it on the page. Put sugar and fat into an IV to shoot it right into my veins. I can't be flipping back and forth. Because it is drugs. What you're describing is basically the same as drugs.

And also, that's the good part of WALL-E. So good for you. Congratulations. And I'm sorry you feel that way, but I guess that's the way it is. I'm surprised you like that part of Wally. You probably like the first part where it's an anti-movie. No words. Just a garbage robot.

He's just a garbage robot. Pass. Okay. Okay. He's just a garbage robot. As if up did make me cry, though. We got a cool guest. We got a great guest today.

It's Tracy Wigfield from 30 Rock. Very, very exciting guest. And it's coming right up on Hollywood Handbook. So, thank goodness, someone flips on the lights right before I strike. And because I have tremendous body control, I'm able to seize my arm. But I have it raised. And I go, oh, okay. It's not Count Dracula.

It's Scott Bakula. And so I did not murder him. I've made a similar mistake. I later murdered him at Pictionary, though. I've been sort of down that path with things like Count Dracula. It's actually Blackula, who is the funny version. Well, I met Count Duckula. Totally different thing.

Yeah, he's funny, too. And almost killing all these people instead of Count Dracula, who continues to escape both of us, I think. Yes, he's still afoot. No, wait, he's still on the loose. Yes, not yes, on the loose. Afoot. What game would be afoot?

The game's afoot because he's on the loose. Welcome back to Hollywood Handbook. The Handbook Insider's Guide to Kicking Button Dropping Names in the Red Carpet Lineback Hallways of this industry we call showbiz. Very exciting guest to have today for a number of reasons. Tracy Wakefield. Hi. Hi.

People know you probably, I would say, mostly from 30 Rock. Tracy from 30 Rock. I mean, yes. And your last name here is Wakefield. Yes. But, you know, not necessarily on 30 Rock. It was Morgan. Yes, it was Morgan. Yes.

Sort of the clown prince of comedy for a while. Yeah. Who else was trying to take that name from you a while ago? Wasn't someone else the clown prince of comedy who came on the show? No, Clark Duke was the clown Duke of comedy. Oh, that's right. Yeah, sort of trading off your name. someone else the clown prince of comedy who came on the show no clark duke was the clown duke oh that's right yeah sort of yes trading off your name yes and we've loved a lot of we love brian fellows and um i remember you going on a very funny rant one day about um how you were going

to put your dui into your reel yes that most people's duis don't make cnn but that you were going to put your DUI into your reel. Yes. That most people's DUIs don't make CNN, but that you were famous enough that your DUI was on TV, and so you thought that was good promotion for you to put it in your reel. Yes, yeah. And that's funny, Tracy Morgan. Thank you so much. And now you're doing some writing as well. Yeah, I'm writing on the Mindy Project.

Mm-hmm. And this is something. And Sam, don't. People are, okay, so no one could see this, but Tracy was talking and it was pretty comfortable and everything was fine, I think, right? It was too quiet, I think. Well. Okay, okay.

It sounded okay to me. And there are different ways to react to it, to something like that, if you're an engineer. Yes. ways to react to it to something like that if you're an engineer yes one i guess would be to use the huge board of devices that you have to manipulate the sound pump somebody's volume sure but sam what sam you did is you took the microphone and you sort of stuck it into tracy touched it to my lips yes my mouth yes you pressed it up against her mouth. She's a lady. Yeah, Sam.

Even for me just being next to it, it was vile. It was vile to watch. It's very aggressive. Turn your microphone on. Sorry, guys. Why did you do that? That's okay. It wasn't supposed to be that aggressive.

I was just trying to push the mic closer. Did you say I was just trying to mush? I was just trying to mush her in the face with a mechanical device. I wasn't supposed to be aggressive, just was going to mush her in the face with a mechanical device. I didn't mean to say that. Okay, well that's what you did, so it would have been okay to say it. It wasn't okay to do it.

Sorry. That's okay. It's okay. I was skittish about it too. I overreacted. Well, now I'm mad at you. No, I want it. I made him do it. I asked for him to do it. Okay.

Well, this I didn't see. So you write for Mimby Project. It's a Mindy. And this is something we've discussed multiple times. It's a confusion, I think, on the part of a lot of writers and people who work on the show. What's her name? Mindy. Not on the show.

What's her name? Mindy Kaling. And which one is the one who's doing the performance? Who is the actress and who is the... Well, who's being on the show? She is a hologram. Which? Mindy...

Which one is? Mindy Kaling is a hologram. Okay. So which guy is doing the doctor stuff? Which guy? Yeah. She plays the doctor. I don't know.

You don't find it credible? A female doctor? Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Is that what you're... Hang on. I'm having a woman on my show right now. Oh, that's true. All of a sudden, I'm a sexist?

Well... Please. I wish that we lived in a society where no one accused me of being a sexist. Like, that's honestly something... You wish for's honestly something yeah i wish that would happen i wish that's how post-gender one day one day and that's my hope i think we're pushing that way yeah that ultimately we'll get to a place where i can say anything about any sex and no one will think that it's a you know uh because of some internal uh predisposition right right right um and let's talk about female writing, actually. I think this is a really good segue

because we had a writer's panel a few weeks ago. Yeah. And there were three men inside the panel. Uh-huh. And I think there was a question. And a baby. Engineer Cody. You don't know him, but he is a lot like a baby.

Yeah, stupid. and there was a question that came up at the time which was why weren't there any women on this panel right and what should they be doing differently to sort of force their way into these things and talk about leaning in yes yeah that's a um that's a hot topic right now i feel like I get asked that question a lot because I'm sure you guys know that a lot of comedy rooms are mostly men. Guys are in there, yeah. I have an idea for that. I feel like there should be a five-year freeze in which no—just for a staff writer's movie, just there are no men hired. And then it would—this is a good idea. And then it would solve it. Or white men. Just for a staff writer's movie, there are no men hired.

This is a good idea. And then it would solve it. Or white men. What if it's just an Asian guy or women or a black guy or whatever? Here's my problem with that. Yeah, just for five years. Yes, but here's my problem with what you're saying. And it evened it out.

Then you're saying a lot of them would have to resort to crime. Who? A lot of these men who you're saying are not allowed to have a nice job and now they have to resort to crime. Who? A lot of these men who you're saying are not allowed to have a nice job and now they have to resort to crime. Untrue. They could take any job. They could work at a gym.

The prisons are overcrowded already and so when you do put them into crime and it's going to make it harder for police to know. Police to know? To know what?

What to know? Who did the crime? Oh, because there's so many more criminals. So many people doing crime. That's a good point. I mean, can hiring just be based on funniness? Well, that's what it is right now, and we still have sort of the problem, don't we? Yeah.

I guess I do like people who look like me. Imagine, but then— Who doesn't, though? I mean, that's more comfortable. That's more comfortable for you? Yeah, because that's what I do like people who look like me. Imagine, but then. Who doesn't, though? I mean, that's more comfortable. That's more comfortable for you? Because that's what I look like. Yeah. Right, right, right.

That makes sense to me. Right. Well. That's my friend when I see that. Yeah. I mean, when I think about the people who probably look like the closest to me that I know, it's probably you. Yes. Is that why you are friends?

Yeah. Well, I do like him. He is my friend. The only person who looks more like me than you that I'm friends with is my writing partner. Yes. And so in that sense, I think that a lot of friendship is just based on trying to get someone very close to you. And that's also probably who finds the same stuff funny.

But when somebody is a woman or a different color than me, it looks so crazy to me. What are you? When I'm interviewing them for a job. It does come back to, and we talk about evolution and science and sort of our lizard brains. And we do read a lot of science books. And what it comes down to is when you're a caveman, caveman times. When you're caveman times, yeah.

It's the feeling of when you see something that looks just like you, you're supposed to know that maybe that's, you're looking into a stream. So I trust it. And it's for drinking. It's safe water. It's safe water. We need water to survive.

And you need water. But if you see something that looks different in those times, it might be a saber-toothed tiger. Or a mirage. Or a mirage. Don't trust it. And then you wind up eating sand. Of course.

Disappear. Thirstier than ever. Yes. Make you thirsty than before. Well, it's water, water everywhere, but only sand to drink. That's the saying. Yes. So I think that while people want to insinuate that it's some sort of like good old boys like protecting each other thing, it's actually just science.

Just science. Like most stuff, it's just science. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cells. Let's talk about 30 Rock for a minute. Yes, please. The experience of writing on that show must have been interesting. Yeah, it was fun.

I was there for a long time. I worked there for six years. Was it a thrill writing for my character? Your character? Yes. I mean, that was challenging, actually. In the Sandwich Day episode where Judah Friedlander gave me a big kiss on the cheek and threw me in the

vending machine what was going on for you guys in the writer's room i just remember reading that script and thinking this is so crazy but i like it yeah i mean we were thinking mostly about you um the like the other guy with the dark hair um um, that the one guy who is like, who's like bigger, but also a guy with dark hair. He replaced me. He came on after me. Oh, he did. Okay.

We were thinking of most of our thinking and sort of our story breaking and was all sort of centered about like, what's going on with these guys? You know? Yes. And it is, all the stories are sort of anchored out of, you know, our behavior. And a lot of the other characters are doing most of the talking. But if you look, they're talking about what we're doing. Uh-huh.

If you really look. Yes. Because they're talking about the show they're making. Right. But who's watching a show or anything with that much focus these days? Yeah. Yes. These days.

We talk about how we're talking about the writer's panel, how everyone sort of usually writes a different character on the show. Yes, yes. And what they say about you and what everyone talks about is that you're sort of the mind behind Judah's hat. Yes, yes. And what was it like coming in every day and thinking about different hats? Yeah, I just sort of would – I would submit my hat list from home, and I would fax them in.

And, you know, usually it would just be kind of like random words. You had a fax machine? I did, yeah. So was a lot of the money that you were making on the show just paying down that fax machine investment? Well, here's the problem with a fax machine. It's like you can buy a fax machine. It's actually not that much. It's like $200 or something.

But it's like no one uses them anymore. So when you have to have it maintenanced, for example, you're getting parts from all over the world. You have to get the maintenance guy to come in.

That's why I won't drive a Jaguar. That's why. That's why I don't drive a Jaguar. It's the same. Because it's too hard to get British pieces.

Yes. And the one fax machine maintenance guy is British too. And he has to come that whole way. Cedric. On an umbrella. He flies on his umbrella, yeah. In a Mary Poppins sort of way. I don't know that.

You're faxing the jokes in for the hat. Yeah. Would you say that it's fair to call Judah's hat the original Twitter? Sort of a proto-Twitter? Oh, I think that is fair. I hadn't even thought of that. No one was doing it before that. And the monetary ramifications for that, for me, would be huge if that was true.

Right? Twitter would owe me something, wouldn't they? Like the company. The company of Twitter. The guys who founded it. If we could make them admit it, yeah. Yeah, but that's, there's the rub, right? What are some of your favorite hats that you ever wrote?

Well, the unicorn posse, sure. You know? Because that hits me right in that rando spot. Oh, God. Straight in the center of my soul. Is there anything more rando than a fucking unicorn? And they're all in a gang. Who made rainbows?

Finding gold coins. Well, because they're a sweet, I mean, they're a sweet sort of mythical animal. Fighting a different animal. Fighting a tiger. Yes, but the idea of them as a posse almost makes me think they might have like a cowboy hat on. Am I wrong? I mean, is that part of your thinking there? Who might have a cowboy hat on? The am i wrong i mean is that part of your thinking there uh that who might have a cap the unicorn the unicorn it's a unicorn posse so the unicorn the group of them is maybe wearing a cowboy hat rounding up a posse like an old western

i guess yeah i guess so okay yes so that is what you were thinking. Were you, did you do Karate Mama? I mean, what? Karate Mama was not me. I wish I could take credit for that. Yes. I only got one hat on the show, the one I just mentioned. The rest Judah wrote.

Can we talk? Because a lot, I guess there were a lot of the ones that he wrote. He wrote them. Or that you wrote and that he rejected, probably. Oh, yeah. Rejectedhats.com. Yeah. Yes, rejectedhats.com. Rejectedhats.com. Yes, rejectedhats.com. There are some great ones on there. What was one of your favorite ones?

Yes, because there were some that he refused to wear. One of them was, it's not abortion if she wanted it. Like that was one that you wrote. I wrote that, yeah. And he said it was too long. Too long. Yeah, there were other problems with it too. Like you can't that you wrote. I wrote that, yeah. And he said it was too long. Too long. Yeah, there were other problems with it too.

Like you can't talk about abortion. And like it's confusing in a way too. Like it's like, it's not abortion. How is that confusing? Well, because it's like if she wanted the baby or she wanted sex is what it is. Well, you wrote that. I know. She wanted sex was the intention.

Like it's not rape if she wanted it. It's what it's playing off of. Oh, Like, it's not rape if she wanted it. It's what it's playing off of. Oh, okay. That's what it was playing off of. Oh, that's interesting. That's not how I took it. It's okay to play off it, I guess. Yeah.

I don't think it's okay to say it, but it's okay to play off it. I don't know. I thought it was good. Well, but that's where you also get the benefit of Judah's experience, because he has been wearing hats for a long time. So he does know what will play and what will, you know, not play. Play. Or what will be too long or what won't be long enough.

You had one that was way too short, right? Yeah. It was just like a little thumbs up, like a picture. You also can't have a picture, I guess. Okay. Yeah. It's all letters. Because then it's not a hat joke.

It becomes something else. It was just sort of positive. It becomes emoji. Yeah. Yeah. I could get in on the money from that. Did you do this is my fucking Halloween costume? Yeah.

That was one of mine, too. You can't say fuck. Okay. Because it's on television. Did you think about taking that word out? I don't think it would make sense if you took it out. I see that. I see that.

I didn't think that question through. If we could get personal for just a minute, we talk about how Hollywood is, it does seem like this really big city, but it is actually a very small town. Yes. When it comes to just, you know, everyone is really like your neighbor

and you just meet them at the store essentially day in, day out. And in my case, I work with your boyfriend. His name's Adam. We work together. That's right. And he's my very best close friend. And isn't it funny what a small town it is? And it's I work with your boyfriend and the milk delivery man

and all this is just all, it feels like a little tiny, just leave it to beaver world or something. You work with her boyfriend and I work with people as well. And so he and I, we talk all the time and he's told me about all the different kissies that you guys have done. All the what?

The different, just the different kissies. Sweet kissies. And Hayes of course downloads me on the kissies after every time he hears from Adam. He calls me up and he goes, you won't believe the kissy I heard about this week. And some of them are amazing. And I just always think, did you actually do those? Yeah. We do a lot of silly kissies.

Just the silliest one. Oh, wow. Like, there was the one that he was talking about when you guys were, like, dancing really fast. Yeah, yeah, yeah. At a party, and you did a kissy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. To me, I'm like, it's so, those two things are so disparate, you know? Fast dancing.

Fast dancing, and then a kiss, which I think of as a slow, sweet act. But if you saw, Sean, if you saw the kiss, it was fast, but a second. Oh, so it's like a peck. Like hummingbirds. And then it almost becomes part of the dance move. In a way, yeah, it was.

Like hummingbirds. Yeah. Jeez, again, your mind. Yeah. Because I'm going, this is how you came up with some of the stuff you had me doing

where I'm, you know, sitting at the table in that writer's room. Yeah, from life experience. Or I'm sort of standing over, you know, Jack McBrayer's shoulder. Right, right. It's outside of Jack's office. Do you remember that one scene where you could just see a little wisp of your hair

just over his hand? Yes, that's more than one, yes. Yes, yes, more than one. He said the kissy, I guess, came during the drop of the song, and that was what made it sort of interesting. We got a big cheer from the... You guys were doing the fast dancing, and then there was the drop, boom, and then it comes in with the boom, boom, boom,

and then you guys are back into fast, speedy dancing. Sounds like the music I listen to. Now, Hayes described one of the kissies to me, and, well, I'm just going to say it. I flat out don't understand it. Okay. Oh, I'd love to explain it to you. He said you use your whole mouth.

Right, right, right. And all the parts. Yeah. Tonsils. Tongueskin. Back of mouth. Wow, I need a break. Under gum. Toothkin. Back of mouth. I need a break. Under gum.

Tooth inside. Tooth root. Wow. Those are the four parts he said. Yeah. Well, the story, I mean. In that order. If you made it up, you did a good job sort of collaborating on this story because I can't find a hole in it other than I can't

wrap my head around it. We're trying to get our love life out there a little more. Get sort of some heat on it. People are skeptical. Of our love? Why? It seems convenient. Easy.

You're both writing comedy and it just feels like you're both sort of. Well, it's like what's next is the show. The show? Yes. No, you think that's what we're thinking about? Well, what would that be, you know, just if it were going to be the show? If the two of us were a show?

Yes. Well, probably like we'd both, we both probably were like, we'd be working on a boat or something. I have a scene. Title pitch? Yeah, yeah. T&A. T&A, yeah. We're both kind of.

Yeah, Tracy and Adam, yeah. Yeah, that's cute. Because in the show, we're nudists who work on a boat. Yeah. But like we're, the boat isn't. That seems inoffensive. The boat isn't for nudists. Oh.

Oh, okay. So everyone else on the boat is like a deep sea fisherman. Yeah. Sort of trying to catch crabs. It's like a deadliest catch kind of vibe. But then you two are sort of frolicking and doing interesting kisses. And they're like, this is dangerous. A storm is coming or whatever.

That's good conflict. Yeah. It's a drama. Sounds like you've got it pretty well thought out. Yeah. For somebody who's never even considered this before it being the show. I know, but I'm pitching it in five minutes, so thank God. Right after I finish this.

We've only got five more minutes with you? Yeah, I got to go. I got to go. Oh, wow. I didn't know. Or maybe she's pitching it to us. No, no, no. Executives.

Well, I'm going to describe certainly Hayes. I don't like to think of myself as a stuffed shirt like that john you talk about something and i'll find the popcorn song um what are your four main rules of writing rules of writing yeah um do do it uh do it on a computer yep right um you that's kind of not fair that's not that helpful to our audience uh i don't know if that's true because there's a lot of people who I think feel like, what if I'm using a typewriter or something like old-timey, like how the greats used to write? A lot of people are doing that.

And I'm telling you, it's not going to add anything except time wasted. But you've got to see the letters we get from some of these people. I'm starting to think some of them just have a stick and mud. They don't have, like, they don't even have a pencil at times. And when you say something like you have to do it on a computer, what you're basically saying to these people is you have to become a thief. Oh, you have to steal. It's a lot of you encouraging crime.

I feel like you guys, in a way that I don't think about it, you guys see a really strong correlation between would-be writers and a criminal element. What is this? Can I say this? I consider it to have saved me from that. I can always speak from personal experience.

I don't know your background. Because you seem to think that writing is some kind of choice that people make. For me, it was. And that they have other options. Oh, well, I envy you, sweetheart, because let me tell you, I wish I had a choice. It was either this or the loony bin. If I didn't have some way to express these twisted thoughts that are in my mind and some of the wild characters that are chattering away,

twisted thoughts that are in my mind and some of the wild characters that are chattering away. If I couldn't splash them down on the page, boy I think I'd be stealing computers or going to jail. For me, I faced a choice at one point. It was between writing and grifting. And grifting, like a long kind of grift

where you would pretend. It was mostly short cons. Find the Lady, you know, the three card Monty kind of scene. Sure, sure, sure. Snake oil sales. Yeah. A lot of making change in a deceptive way. Oh, you know what?

I actually need change. Give me two tens for this 20. Oh, you know what? I screwed up. Oh, wait, I gave you too much. Yeah, give me that. No, give me the 20 back. I'll give you the 10 because I actually don't need that.

And then, boom, you made 10 bucks. And then you could hopefully buy a computer, become a writer writer with that there's lots of sleight of hand and it is against society and i'm not proud of those times and if i could go back and change it i would but i just it's writing saved me it did and so when i think about all those people who are also it's time to make that choice and you're saying that they're not allowed to be hired because of the new rule. Well, here's the other thing. Computers are at libraries. Computers are at friends' houses.

Computers are a lot of places. They're everywhere now. So why do you have to own it? You don't necessarily. Well, first of all. You just have to have a friend with a computer. That's not so hard. Well, we've talked about this library thing,

and the letters that we get is that I'm at the library. There's a really long line here. Oh, really? Of now everyone else trying to do their movie. I've never been to a library. I've only got my couple minutes. I think they get like a chip or something that represents five minutes that they can spend on the computer. And another thing is if you write your script on the library computer,

you don't own it. Now the library owns that, and they could get hired for a show. Oh, is that true? Mm-hmm. Yes. But how often, though, is a library going out to a studio?

Well, they're not doing great. Maybe you're not familiar with the new TNT show starring John Larroquette, The Librarians. And that is created by just libraries. Well, no. Here's what I think. I think somebody created the idea in a library. Certainly a human would have to.

Right where you are. They always say right where you are. But now when you look at the end of the show, it says created by the library. The library. Yes. And they stole. Who do you think did that? Created by the library.

So it's hard to... Good to see Johnny Laird kept back, though. Sam? Sam. Sound. Sound. We command you. Computer sound.

Computer sound now. The Popcorn Gallery. It's time for... Okay. It's time for the Popcorn Gallery. And we got the questions from our listeners for Tracy Wakefield. And it's going to be questions about writing and television and the movie business and finding a job in the movies. And we got some questions to read to you right now. Do you understand what the segment is?

People are asking questions of me. Yeah, popcorn at the movies. Popcorn at the movies. Yeah. We have a question from, let me find one that's really good. Oh, good. I love when he takes his time. This question from Bozos.

Okay. Formerly Bozos of basketball, but he, I guess, didn't want to be that anymore. Should we play the sound drop? Yes. Let's reach into the bag and find the question. Hopefully it'll be from Bozos. Okay. Oh, it's my own wiener.

I guess I'm not allowed to have a writing job because I have a male organ. And so now for five years, I have to just go commit crimes. Okay, so. And this is a question that is specific to someone like, this is Sean's friend Mark from high school. My friend Mark from high school records these sound drops. Oh, okay. And he is the kind of person who is making the choice right now between.

A life in entertainment and a life in the seedy underbelly of the criminal world. Tricking somebody into finding a queen or a walnut shell under a cup. Gotcha, gotcha. You did find the bozos question. Yeah, it was in there. The question is, Tracy, what's it like to be popular? How do you choose which people to like? You know, it's hard because a lot of people want to hang out with me. I get

invited to a lot of parties. I get invited to a lot of events. And so what I do is I say I'm coming to everything. I always say yes. I never go. I never go to anything. Yes, but you made people so happy when you said yes. I say yes, I'll be there. And then I never show up. So that's sort of how I deal with being popular. It's interesting for you because so many of us now are coming from this kind of nerdish background, like Sean and I and reading science books and reading a comic. And you're sort of a typical glamour gal. Yeah, I'm what you would call like a glamour gal. Yeah.

And that's, it's interesting because you also felt like writing was a choice. And maybe it is because you didn't live in these comic book worlds where you only escape from the viciousness of the bullies. It was to sort of imagine that you were Clark Kent, who was a nerd. I mean, Clark Kent was a nerd. We don't talk about that. Yes. But had these super abilities. That's right.

I could have done any number of things. Modeling in Milan, London, all the great cities of Europe. Modeling in Brazil. Mexico. Anywhere but America, I feel like you could have been a model, yes. No one was interested here. But in other cultures and countries. But I chose to do this because I enjoy it. And here I am.

What were you doing when some of us were reading about math? Yeah, yeah. what were you doing? I was partying. Mm. I was listening to the sounds of the city

and dancing. You go shopping at the mall? Go shopping at the mall. I was, yeah, I was shopping at the mall. Which store?

Buying beautiful things for myself. The finest stores. Bergdorf, Neiman Marcus, Saks Fifth Avenue. Where'd you get your ears pierced?

At a kiosk. That's real. That's nice. That's real. That's real. It's all real. Here's a question in the bag we're going to find. Okay, I found a

gun and a pencil. So which am I going to use, my gun or my pencil? Well, I guess the pencil's not a computer, so I can't be a writer. Crack. Let's do this. Okay, so it seems like... It plays out in real time for us Yes

And sometimes it's hard to see the effects of the choices you make Until Yeah, sometimes we say things from our crystal towers You know, and With our Bergdorf purchases And we don't necessarily realize that There's very real repercussions to the decisions we make This question is from Anastasia Vigo.

And her question is, how did it feel to win your Emmy? Oh, great. Really wonderful. My family was there. It was a very nice experience. You guys won an Emmy. Art's not a competition. What?

Art shouldn't be a competition. I can't hear you. Art shouldn't be a competition. I can't hear you. Art shouldn't be a competition. I turned my Emmy into coins to distribute. Into coins? You melted it down. Into gold coins. Now, did you guys realize when you won your Emmy, did you feel like it's much

smaller than you thought it would be? Mine was very small. Very small. To the point where I don't know where it is. Oh, that's interesting. You guys got one of the small ones. I did. Mine is, you could fit it in your mouth. Oh.

It is so small. Oh, that could be a new kissy. And I don't want to step on the territory between you, but it feels like. Don't start coming up with kissies. If Adam wins one. Trading an Emmy from one lips to another. Mine I would consider to be too big. Too big?

I had to drive with my trunk open on the way home. You're kidding. And you strapped it down with a bungee? Yeah, so it's very dangerous, and you can't see out the back. Oh, jeez. Did you guys fall apart? You just fell apart? Yeah, like when I went to touch it, the frigging arm fell off.

And there was like, I don't know, there was like copper wire in there or something. Like it was all sticking out, jagged, and it just felt dangerous to have it around. And mine was, was your guys' one holding up, I think it was supposed to be holding up like a globe. A globe, of course. Oh, mine was an orange pool ball. It was? Yeah. Oh, that feels like they cheaped out or something.

I think it was the four ball. Well, that's more fun though. I guess. Did you try burying yours in the yard? Because if you, I didn't know this, but if you bury it in the yard, a tree will grow. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Did you try that?

It was like, it's like that, it ended up being the StubHub tree. Oh, wow. Oh, yeah. The funny tree. Mine, what came out of the ground, that was not a tree. What was it? It was like, it was like, okay, so I'm just going to describe what I saw. Okay, and we'll try to make heads or tails of it.

Okay, there's a beam of light, and then there's some sort of metal bug. And he shoots my dad with a laser. Was he okay? Thank God he is. Jesus Christ. But only because it just shot him in the bulletproof vest that he was already wearing Is he a cop? Not anymore

After this incident? Or just unrelated? No, just hasn't been one for a while Okay He's not of cop age really anymore Oh, I see Retired But anyway, so I don't know exactly what it was, but I would not call that a tree, that metal bug.

And then it took off into the sky. And then I'm reading the news a couple weeks later and, you know, Bin Laden's dead. I don't know. I don't know. You think's dead. I don't know. I don't know. You think he did? I don't know. Well, and your dad has that big scraggly beard. Your dad, yeah.

So you think that was a misfire on your dad thinking it was Osama Bin Laden? I don't. Honestly, I'm saying this. What did the bug say when he shot your dad with the laser beam? Take that. Okay, so that sounds like he could have been talking to Osama bin Laden. It's pretty open-ended. But it could have been.

Yeah, you'd be within your rights to say that to him. It definitely doesn't rule out that scenario. Yeah, no, you wouldn't be way out of line if you said take that to Osama. Yeah. No, it would be, you wouldn't be way out of line if you said, take that to Osama. No. But you could say it to a lot of people. That's true. Let's reach into the bag. We'll find another new question. Just fill up the bag. Just fill up the bag. Just do it. Just do it. Why are you doing this? Why are you doing this?

You don't have to do this. Yes, I do, man. Yes, I do. I'm never going to write, man. My only friends are the frigging Green Arrow and frigging the monster thing. Kid, just put down the gun. You don't have to do this. No, come on.

Just fill up the bag. I'm going to really shoot. Oh, my God. And it sounded like he was scared. He didn't even want to be doing it. But he had to. He had no other choice. Well, he had no other choice because how else is he going to afford a computer? Just find a nickel to use the library.

Yes. Here's a question from Jacob C. Tracy, how would you describe your infamous I just wrote a funny joke victory dance? It's a library. Yes. Here's a question from Jacob C. Tracy, how would you describe your infamous I just wrote a funny joke victory dance? Oh, I know what you're talking about. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I just sing. I just wrote a joke.

Well, let's do a joke first. Like, what's a funny joke you did recently? A funny joke recently that's on the show like mindy walks into a room okay and trips and falls face first into a garbage can right that got a big what's in the garbage can yeah like when her head comes up is there like a there is a banana peel egg there is there's an eggshell big one over her whole head. Over her whole head, yeah. Yes! It's an Easter episode, so that's established earlier. Yes! It's an Easter episode, yeah.

So that obviously got a big reaction in the room. It's funny. I can't wait for that episode. Yeah, well, wait till Easter, because that's when it's going to be on. Great. What? That's when it's going to be on. Great. What? That's when it's going to be on. Great.

That's great for me. Okay. Do you have something on Easter? What's your problem? He's saying he doesn't have something on Easter. Yeah, but the tone. Jesus Christ. No, what I said was-

He said it was great. What do you want him to say? What's wrong with me? What do you want to hear? Tell me. I'll say it. No, it's fine I'm here to please you

your majesty what do you want to hear? my god and so you do the joke I'm so sorry you do the funny joke yeah and then

holy fucking shit what? no forget it you got a big attitude problem yeah I guess so. From where I'm standing, you talked about your funny joke and he said it was great. I'm trying to be unbiased. I said great.

I said I can't wait to see it. I said great again. You know this as a writer. There's a reader on every line of dialogue. And his reader was Jackoff. The reader that I saw was loving her shit. Loving her shit? Loving her shit.

Parenthetical, loving her shit. Parenthetical, gonna watch. Yes. Well, I'm sorry then. I didn't take it that way. Loving her shit. Okay, well, the reader on that is not a great apology. Okay.

Anyway. I mean, you're here. You feel this. That's not true. Yes, and I see in Sean someone who I— You're going to take his side. I recognize the kind of behavior he's doing. You have to see him tomorrow. Yes.

And, frankly, I think he looks like me. He has very similar facial hair right now. Yeah. And sort of sandy hair. Whereas I look at you, and it's like a different creature. Just in my lizard brain. Yeah. Long brown hair. Yes. look at you, and it's like a different creature, just in my lizard brain. Yeah, long brown hair. Yes.

Different face. Yes. This sort of reptilian part of my brain is just fighting to make any kind of sense of you, and everything it's telling me is just danger, you know? Do not trust. Yes, fight or flight. But instead, I choose do podcast. What's the dance that you do?

Yes, describe the dance. Where did this begin? Could she describe the dance as the prize for our pro version? Yes, I suppose. Because it is 101 and there is a pretty big podcast coming in behind us. Yes, and so you rate us on iTunes and you like us on the forums and on Facebook. Like us on Facebook, talk to us on the forums, rate us on iTunes. And thank you so much, Tracy, for coming in.

Oh, thank you guys. Joining us on the show. And it's a good prize coming for Salad Jesse Raphael, the person who bought the pro version this week. Thank you so much. Really good pro version coming your way. And Tracy's going to describe for you her joke dance. Yeah, when I tell a good joke, I say, fuck you, motherfuckers. I told the best joke. And then I stand very, very erect, and I kick myself in the butt. Bye. Bye.

This has been an Earwolf Media Production Executive Producers Jeff Ulrich and Scott Aukerman For more information visit Earwolf.com Earwolf Radio Boom.com The wolf dead.