Home Care U - Lessons From a Multi-Million Dollar Home Care Marketer Turned Owner (Wayne Morgan)

Episode Date: September 23, 2024

In a highly saturated market, the coffee and donut method doesn’t stand a chance. Wayne Morgan, Owner of Amada Central NJ is here to share how he sold millions year over year as a home care marketer, leading him to start a home care business of his own.Enjoying the show? Send me a text and let me know!Learn more about Careswitch at: careswitch.comConnect with the host on LinkedIn: Miriam Allred This episode was produced by parkerkane.co

Welcome everyone to Home Care U. I hope everyone is having a great week and I hope everyone is continuing to enjoy this show. Quick update for those of you that are new to the show or returning after a little bit. We've got the episode transcripts up on our website at careswitch.com slash homecareu. So I know a lot of people are taking notes during these episodes, but we've made it a little bit easier for you. And we now have the transcripts on our website where you can grab them, control, find, search, reread parts of the episode. So just want to make sure that everyone's aware that we've got the transcripts up on our website. And while you're there, you can also subscribe to our monthly newsletter Campus Times, which is an educational

extension of the podcast that gets emailed out to our subscribers at the end of the month. So hit subscribe on our website as well. Again, that's careswitch.com backslash homecareu. So without further ado, let's get into today's session. Today, I'm joined by the one and only Wayne Morgan. He's the owner of Amada Senior Care in Central New Jersey. Wayne, I know you're a big fan of the show and I'm excited to talk to you today. Thanks for being here. I appreciate it. Thank you so much. This is great. So I'm ready to talk and let's get going. I know you're so much of a super fan that you bought a microphone to record this episode, which I love. So shout out to you and future guests.

Having the right mic is a plus. So let's get into your background. Again, you might be kind of an up and coming name and face in the industry. And so I want to give you a couple of minutes to introduce yourself, talk about your background and especially your history as it pertains to referral marketing and sales and your success in that. Yeah, no, I appreciate it. So like you said, I'm the owner of Amada Senior Care in Central New Jersey. Our office is located in Princeton, New Jersey, which is in Mercer County. Amada Senior Care is a national franchise, very proud to be part of the franchise, amazing system, amazing support by them. But a little bit about myself is I've been

in hospitality since I've been growing up. I grew up in a restaurant setting. My mother was a waitress, so she brought me to work. So at a young age, I was used to talking to strangers, kind of providing customer service, hospitality, learning new skills, traits. Through my years, I got involved with studying psychology, helping children in the juvenile justice system. Really, that was really kind of what set my success, I guess, really for sales and marketing with senior care or aging adults care is my objective was to create like plan of cares for children and keep them rehabilitated, keep them in the community, reduce their length of stay in

detention centers, and really put them on a road for success, the best we can do. And I was involved with conversations and involved with stakeholders. So it was an amazing job, amazing mentors, leaders. You know, I worked for a family division, part of the courthouse, family environment. Restaurants I worked with were family owned. So I was kind of in that culture growing up. My family is very close with one another. So I like being nurtured.

I like families that mentor me and I like being disciplined. So it really carried through my career. And I was really lucky in 2016, 2017, I was doing a little real estate on the side and I was looped on a group chat with my previous, my first home care owner's dad and an attorney. Hey, call this gentleman's home, your background. This job is a great opportunity for you. It's basically your resume in one role. So I joined a very well-known established home care agency in New Jersey since I believe the beginning of 2017 to 2021. My role was to do marketing, sales, business development, family-owned business, amazing team, did very well. I mean, my first six months, I was kind of stuck as most marketers are.

We kind of being rejected and being told, no, we're in our car. We're like, what is this? And what's going on? I can't talk to no one. So it was a humbling experience for me just because of my previous roles. I I was in, you know, high level conversations and meetings. So, you know, just by engaging with my team, they're leaning on my support in that agency and really kind of finding different tools and niches within the business locally within North New Jersey. I had the opportunity to do about $1 million new business my first year. So actually for six months, as I continued to understand the processes, the operations really buy into the concept of the agency and really what was happening behind the scenes and kind of, and I'll dive more into like data and KPIs and, you know, not just, I hate saying it, not just bringing donuts and with a little smile on my face. years there, probably about $1.8 to $2 million new business a year. And I evolved into a regional role. And one day I woke up and said, you know what? I would love to kind of see what else is

out there. There was nothing wrong. I felt like sometimes those individuals take a year off before they go to college or they take a year off before they go to school. I just, something in me. So I joined another company for about eight months to a year and it was, you know, private equity backed and it was corporate and it was bigger. And, you know, the original owner started with his grandmother and he's been in business for 20 years. So I got drawn to that and, you know, they're a good company. It was just, you know, I was reporting to like five different people. They were kind of plotting me across the country. My job role wasn't what I signed up for. My money was touched. So I needed that year to kind of, in a way,

kind of reinvent myself. But also within that year, my focus was to really just make the salespeople I was working with and training the best versions of themselves as professionals and people. And as I was doing that, I didn't really realize how much I actually knew from my previous job of like, wow, I was actually listening during those meetings. I was actually studying. And although I didn't talk as much and I would be told like, you need to speak more. I kind of just said, you know what? I think I'm ready. And at first I was going to do some senior advising consulting. And I was always partners and referral partners with the owner of Amada Senior Care of Bergen County and Passee

County, New Jersey. And one day he said, hey, me and my dad, we want to expand into Mercer County. It's a little bit away from where you reside, but we would love to bring you in as a partner. So of course, had to speak to my wife, had to speak to my family, but that moment just came across my desk and I took advantage of it. And we've been open for about a little over a year. So the first few months is figuring out processes, policies, operational, KPI tracking, recruitment. You're really figuring everything out when there's no branding on the marketing side or even recruitment side. So I count the first year as January 1 of this year. So we're within our first full year,

we're trying to do anywhere between 1 to 1.2 million new business. So things are great. Awesome. What an incredible background and what an incredible run in sales. That's really what we're going to dive into today, which is your success, the strategies, the tactics behind really strong, solid referral marketing. And for context, you mentioned a couple of times, you're still in the New Jersey market. It is a very competitive landscape. Just if you will, like ballpark the numbers. Do you have any idea in your market about how many home care agencies, how many potential referral partners we're talking here? Again, just like ballpark. Ballpark home care agencies, probably a few hundred. And then referral partners, well into the thousands. New Jersey's congested. So yeah, a few hundred home

cares, a few thousand referral partners. Yeah. Big, big market, competitive landscape. So I want to first ask about common misconceptions. What are some of the common misconceptions that a lot of agencies have when it comes to successful referral marketing, particularly those even at larger agencies? You work for several large home care brands. And so you've seen, you know, what it looks like at a small scale, what it looks at a large scale. What are some of the common misconceptions that you've seen most commonly? Well, within my market, but, you know, it could be different between all different markets.

But one of the misconceptions I feel like, you know, many agencies have when it comes to successful marketing is honestly, a lot of people think, hey, you have relationships, that's going to equal business. Now as a salesperson and marketer and those who are listening, you're like, but wait, that's the key of sales, right? Establish relationships. True. Yes, you need to do that. But once you gain a relationship, you're actually losing it literally like the same day you gain it. So for me, and the way I would train is, yes, we need to establish relationships, but one, how are we going to maintain that relationship, right? How are we going to understand our referral partners the best we can from their pain points to their challenges, to their processes, to the way they operate, to the way they take in a referral, to the way they discharge, to their partners down in the community.

But also as a marketer and sales representative to maintain a relationship, and especially when you're selling, there's a level of compassion and pride and enthusiasm you need in terms of the company you represent and the product that you offer, which is home health aids, is nursing, customer service. You're providing a service. Home care is now more of a hospitality business than more than anything else. So it's really important. And this is what leveraged me into my market and got me to my numbers when I was going through my home care journey was outside of maintaining a relationship, I had to really understand what happened behind the scenes within my business.

And the one thing I was always told is, there's always going to be tension between sales and ops. And that's what I was feeling within the first six months was, I'm going to just sell, sell, sell and be robotic and just read everything off for sure and show up with Dunkin' Donuts. Now that's good and that can create conversations. But one, I had to trust the people behind my back because I say at four o'clock on a Friday, I get a discharge from a hospital. I'm setting everything up, but I need to make sure I'm setting very clear expectations. I need to understand the logistics of what it looks like when a client signs on service is on service to even if they wanted this continued service. But I also need to be mindful of my backend operation and also need to be mindful that

they're the ones actually doing the work, right? I'm not a home health aide. I'm not a registered nurse doing an initial assessment. I'm not a scheduler. you know? So for me, you know, maintaining a relationship was for me to present more of the logistics and the experience of a client or one of their patients on our service to my referral sources. And then also obtain everything I can know about them, bring it back to my office and say, Hey, I have this skilled nursing facility. You know, they're, they're advising me that 80% of their admissions are congested heart failure. What do we do really well with congested heart failure? What can I go back to them with? So can we offer additional skill training to our caregivers? Do we track

any KPIs? Are we tracking falls or why do we need to track their weight every day? So I got really invested with my nursing team. I sat in on staffing departments, watching them staff clients. I sat through orientation. So it wasn't for me to know everything, but it was really for me, one way I'd maintained a relationship was there's only so much I could sell. I need to understand really what the pain points are in my referral source, but I need to really paint a really good, clear picture of them, trust my operation. But also I knew that my operation and my team were providing a really good service.

So I feel the one misconception is like, hey, let's hire this person because they have a thousand relationships. But then one of the biggest mistakes, I wouldn't even call it a mistake. It's more of a challenge because these are fixable things, right? There's always room for improvement, no matter what your success is with this business. Especially if they're at a large scale of a business is you have all these relationships go out and sell. At the end of the day, it's okay, but what do we do internally? How's our operation work? Everyone works differently.

So I think it's more just sell and go get a referral. And then there's micromanagement behind it. Well, you have all these relationships. How come you're not getting business? And for me, I think one of the biggest challenges at a largerones, understand the concept of what makes a good marketer, a good salesman, but also what makes you really good at a home care agency. So I'll never forget, I went to my previous director of nursing, who's the CEO of the company now. I said, why are we good? I'm out there talking about this. What does that even mean? I don't know. What do I say now? I was running out of things to say. I was running out of tchotchkes to bring. And I was like, can I shadow your nursing team? Can I see a care plan? I don't know what we're doing. I know we provide home health aides. Can I meet some of these home health aides? I need to be completely passionate about this. And can we start tracking some numbers so this data actually is factual? So I really got to know my partners the best I could, but I think the training and education is extremely important regardless.

And within Princeton, we're looking for a new marketer, right? And I don't care if you have 20 years experience, you have no experience at all. You're going to go through the one-on-ones and the training and everything that we do here, regardless. You might have relationships, but it doesn't mean you're going to do a ride along in my car for a week and then I'm going to cut you loose. I think it's really understanding the business you're working with, the people you're working with, the processes we have in place, you investing in that. And then also creating your own niche. What are your strengths out there?

And I think it's more like then how can that agency support you as you're out marketing? Because it's a very strenuous job. It's tedious. It's demanding. And I think the lack of the challenges really is the education piece. I feel like when people think you just have relationships, you're just going to go out and generate business, but it's more to that. You have to maintain it. And there's many different ways you have to on how you can maintain it. So that's the answer to your question.

Yeah. Earlier in your response, you used the word tension between sales and operations. And I think that's really interesting. And I think that's what you were getting into is these businesses at scale, there's this tension or this friction between sales and operations. And like you just spelled out, it's the lack of expectations and the lack of education. And so to be cohesive and to be successful, you really have to have both parts of that and both parties need to be educated about one and the other. And I think that's probably what attributes to your success is you, like you said,

you were so close with the nursing teams, you were, you know, figuring out care plans and talking about schedules and really like diving into the services, the specialties, the diagnoses of these clients. So you could go out and sell that more effectively. So I think that was a great response. And I think that will resonate, especially with large operations where they may feel that disconnect between sales and operations.

You really can't have one without the other or have the success of both without one another. Yeah, you nailed that. I mean, look, you can't operate with a sale and you can't sell without an operation. So like you said, my biggest flaws was I was sending new clients to my team, but I wasn't setting clear expectations. I wasn't understanding the logistics. So guess what happens? There's service failures, right? When there's service failures, those clients, those families are going back to my referral sources saying, I'm not getting what I was promised. I'm not getting this good experience. Why would that, you know, you can have a relationship

with this person. You could break bread with them and watch college football with them on Saturdays, but they have to protect themselves, their job, their team, their businesses. So you can have relationships, but it doesn't always mean that you're going to get business. So once I started understanding what information would my internal team need and what's going to make this super successful on providing a very good service and experience for my client and also caregiver. So I started thinking like caregivers from parking to pets, to smoking, to who's helping mom and dad when our caregiver is not there to, Hey, this is literally what's going to happen. You're going to get a call from X, Y, and Z. Like I painted a picture, but I also was trying to

explain to them, like, this is our option A, but we need to talk about option B, C, and D because this could happen when you're on service. So my objective is if it goes to my team, nursing knows everything. They got every detail. Everything's clear cut and staffing. Staffing has all the answers because when that caregiver is being called by staffing, our caregivers, they ask all the questions. And last thing I want is any of my internal team members to feel like a deer in headlights. So the more I can do that on the front end, the better service we're going to provide. And also, you know, you're getting better caregiver retention, you're getting better length of stay with your clients and caregivers. And then all that good feedback goes back to your

referral source. And that's how you maintain your relationships. That's how you could, you know, continue to strengthen them. And, you know, you go to the home care pulse surveys, like the most recent survey is like, I think it was what, 33% of home care providers want to increase and strengthen relationships for this upcoming year. This is one piece of the puzzle on how you do it. When we talk about sales, we often use the word like volume, you know, like sales is a volume game. And you mentioned, you know, there's thousands of referral partners in your market alone. I'm curious to hear your take on like volume versus quality, like deep, not wide. You talked about, you know, do you hire someone that

has a bunch of preexisting relationships and that will set them up for success? Not necessarily, but for you, is your preference like depth, you know, with a handful of really good partners and going as deep as possible and getting a lot of referrals? Or do you have to cast a wide net to get enough referrals? Is that making sense? You know, deep versus wide. Yeah. So one of the first things that was ever taught is the difference between a shotgun approach and a sniper approach. And I started out as a shotgun approach. I was like, all right, let me just see what sticks. And I'm brochuring half the time showing up at doctor's offices. But you know what, there's, it's an in-between type of concept because you do

need to start at a larger scale, but don't stretch yourself out too thin, but with the right education and training. So everything I respond to is always going to kind of tie into every previous question is really more about a sniper approach, zeroing in on quality referral partners. And then from there, building other additional referral partners off your current. So when you, for example, a year and a half ago, I didn't know anything about the Princeton area. And it's an hour and a half south of me. And yes, there's relationships with contacts down here and so forth. But for me, I went to the 101s.

And I had a much larger account list when I first started, but now it's much shorter because I was able to identify who works with who, who specializes with what, who can I partner with, or if a client of mine needs rehab or a senior living, if they live in senior living and they fall, which skilled nursing facility does that senior living community work with? My objective now is how do I become part of a conversation, whether anyone goes to the acute care, which is the hospital, through rehab, through senior living or back home or through home health and hospice, how do I become part of every conversation? And so I always recommend go

through a sniper approach and then eventually build off of that. And we can dive into it more like building out a catalyst and ways to market to specific referral sources. Yeah, let's go down that path. You know, you stepped into the role of owner and you had to build your own strategy essentially from scratch based off all your prior experience.

So yeah, how did you start that process a year ago? How did you choose those initial target partners? And how did you start that process a year ago? How did you choose those initial target partners? And how did you start to plan and approach and set your team up for success in those early days? Yeah. So what I actually first did, it was I just drove to Princeton just because. Just to be familiar with like the roads and the demographics, even on recruitment, you know, when you're just doing sales, you're selling, right?

But when you own and you're building up an operation, you're selling, it's a completely different beast of what you're selling, right? But when you own and you're building up an operation, you're selling, it's a completely different beast of what you're doing. But most importantly, I went to the one on ones and a few people prior to me on the podcast have referenced it. So I got to give them kudos is I'm a big fan of medicare.gov. And for me, I go to medicare.gov, I search for providers and I start with the hospitals. And on medicare.gov, it'll give you a map and give you a little pins on exactly where everything's located. And I, I kind of established like little hubs, like little areas of, okay, one, if I'm marketing, how am I going to reduce the most windshield time? But then two, what hospitals in my area, what health systems are they part of? And then from there I say, okay, I got two, three hospitals.

Now I'm going to look up skilled nursing facilities and there's a ton, right? There's a ton of rehabs, whether it's acute, subacute, and I'm really looking for anything from three stars or above. Obviously three stars is great and there's nothing wrong with anything less because there's a lot of facilities I've known over the last year, they've been one star, now they're four. But for me, it's like, okay, let's look more into like the four and five star skilled nursing facilities. Let's see how many beds they have, what they specialize in. Let's look at their short-term measurements, their short-term stay measurements. But also let's see if they're part of those healthcare systems, the hospitals. And then from there, I'm looking at senior living communities, which is not always through medicare.gov, a little Google.

And I kind of just started heat mapping my referral sources essentially. And then I looked up home health through medicare.gov and I said, okay, well, this hospital has their own home health and hospice. I'm going to add it to the list. This, you know, private home health is in these referral sources. So I started heat mapping and started kind of building about 40 to 50 referral sources between skilled nursing facilities, rehabs, hospitals, senior living communities, independent living communities, CCRCs.

And then I said, you know what, let me look up some elder law attorneys and financial advisors and physicians. So once I built my list, I was just boots on the ground. And I went back to the one-on-ones, which is crazy because I was like, oh man, I got to do this all over again. I got to meet new people. I felt like a transfer student. I was all tight and I was just like, in a way I was nervous, but it was kind of good to be nervous because I felt like, you know, if I'm nervous, I'm prepared. So you network, right? You, you, you go to, you reach out to people on LinkedIn, you go to a referral sources, you ask what events are in the

area. So I started networking and I started connecting the dots on who works with who. And then from there, it was really, I can get into it, identifying who the key players are in each referral source and building a process per referral source. And then I established a cadence. Do I come here weekly? Do I come here biweekly? Is this the right referral source for me? And we look at that monthly, quarterly, and annually in terms of is this the right referral source for me? And we look at that monthly, quarterly, and annually in terms of who's the right referral source for us. But it was just pulling up data online, boots on the ground, networking, asking questions, staying consistent. So consistency in communication is extremely important,

but that's really kind of how I got off the ground running with Princeton. Awesome. Let's get into the how-tos. Starting with the hospital systems, you said that hospitals are like maybe your bread and butter and like where you started. They're also maybe the most intimidating. They're really large operations. They have massive staff. You know, there's a lot of people to talk to. So let's approach it as, you know, you walk in there for the first time. Who are you looking for? What's your approach? And then what message are you leaving with them? And then, you know, there for the first time, who are you looking for? What's your approach? And then what message are you leaving with them? And then, you know, what's the follow-up with the hospital system? Yeah.

So when I walk in, I actually kind of just sit down and watch the lobby for five minutes and process like, yeah, there's no shot I'm getting in here. Or maybe there's four other home care agencies before me that got rejected. Let me just wait my turn. But I think it's more, you know, one, it took me years to obtain a hospital relationship. So just to kind of put it out there, it's going to take time for whoever's listening. Hospitals take time and it takes hard work, really hard work. Because most of these healthcare systems, they might have their own home care. But in New Jersey specifically, they're no joke.

They're very serious with who they refer. And there's hundreds of offenders, like I said. So why you, right? Honestly, I'm going to backtrack a little bit. So if I'm going to the hospital the first time, I'm just going in just to get a feel for the lobby. I know I'm going to be told no. I know. I don't even walk in with brochures. First off, for me, too much, it's too aggressive. Just walk in and say, I'm Wayne. I'm with Amada Senior Care. I'm looking for case management. You might get lucky. So for me, it's just get a feel of everything. And then from there, I really look at the flow of it. I'm very observant. You have to be observant. And you have to kind of, in a way, as you're marketing and selling, you have to listen more and talk you have to kind of, in a way, like as you're marketing and selling, you have to like listen more and talk less. So kind of know like your surroundings and say like,

Hey, I'm going to go on Wednesday. That woman was really nice at the front desk. I'm going to go again next Wednesday. She was nice. Right. Because maybe she lets you go that third, fourth, fifth time, but you also have to be mindful. Like, yes, it's very busy. Yes. These are very big, but it's fine. You know, everyone is doing their job. You just got to be yourself and be professional. But the backtrack, how do I get into a hospital? I'm referring on my community partners for that. Now that's like the golden ticket.

I can't meet somebody for the first time and say, ah, thanks so much for that coffee. Can you get me in this hospital, by the way? You got to really establish a really good relationship with these individuals. So with that said, if I'm working with a hospital and I just did a presentation for a hospital hospice division, so they're part of a big healthcare system down here. And I presented the hospice and we're helping a few of their patients and we're doing a good job and they're trusting us and vice

versa. And, you know, now it's, you know, they said, Hey, how are you with case management? That's hospital. So that's for me to be ready and take advantage of that. But you got to utilize your partners, right? Your community partners who are in these hospitals every day. So essentially it's your home health and your hospice partners. You got to really kind of factor in like, hey, on medicare.gov, there's numbers in terms of how many patients they're discharging. There's multiple sites that will disclose how many people they're discharging per year, how many admissions they're getting per year. You got to do the research. You got to work hard. Like I hate saying it's not a nine to five job. Like you put the time in and whatever luck falls your way,

you'll be prepared for that and you'll be successful. So I would lean on my home health hospice providers in terms of like, Hey, you're getting referred every day for home health. Like one, how can I help you in terms of a home health agency, provide a safer discharge for your patients coming out of the hospital? And then secondly, like how can we market together our businesses and go back to case management in terms of why are your patients and our clients aren't falling? You know, could we combine our readmission, you know, percentages together? Like when you refer X home health and a modest senior care, this is what you get case management. And how often do you maybe do an in-service there?

How close are you with the team? Could I maybe help you sponsor an event for the case management team out after work? Could we co-sponsor an in-service for this hospital? So I really utilize the home health hospice partners, even skilled nursing facilities who are like the liaisons that are kind of facilitating the referrals for rehab. But for me, I generally don't walk into a hospital the first time without having any relationships. And if I do, it's really just to kind of get a feel for it because they are huge. They're big, but I keep going just so it, one, it increases my comfort there. But then as I'm doing that, as I keep getting denied, which can be weeks, months, and years, I'm establishing my relationships that have the relationships in these hospitals, but they're also being discharged every single day. So how can I better the experiences of your discharges coming to your

business? And then what can we do as a partner to come back to the hospital? Because data, hospitals want to know. Outcomes, that's what they want to know. And they want to know that you're not just a random company down the street because they're putting their patient's hands into your business. And we're primarily private pay. And we specialize with long-term care insurance, but that is a huge decision. But that case manager also is discharging eight, but admitting 15. So you have to understand the flow and the process, again, of your business, the logistics, and setting people up for success. So I lean on my community of partners to get into the hospitals. And I never say this out in the public, but since I'm a big fan of your podcast,

the last thing you want is a client of yours to go to a hospital and you want everything to be okay, which of course is what we want to do. But we also want to provide that family a lot of support. But ultimately, that's a way in, right? So if you could be yourself and you provide a good service and you're authentic and you're providing a customer service and you're actually going in to visit your client to provide a safer transition back home or wherever they need to go, excuse me, where they need to go, then that case manager, that social worker, they're

going to be like, wow, this company is actually in it. They're compassionate. They're not just knocking on my door because they're putting their know, their clients down the hallway after, you know, having a stroke. So for me, I got into hospitals by providing a really, really good customer service follow-up when they went to the hospital. And then when I had the opportunity to speak to case management, I was just asking questions, telling them, you know, how long they've been on service, the hours they're on service for, what do they recommend? And then from there, I was kind of in a way like working with my partners. Hey, they're talking about rehab. They're going to call you.

So that allowed me to refer my partners too, which established relationships. So the more I was able to connect my community partners to my clients in the hospital, they're saying, hey, Wayne's helping us. He's referring us people. He's getting us involved. You know what? I think it's, yeah, I'll introduce you to case management now. So I had to build up like a, kind of like a resume, kind of, I needed like kudo points,

you know? So. I love the, I love the transparency there. Obviously in home care, we're trying to reduce readmissions, but we all know they're inevitable. And like you said, it's a way to build trust and credibility right there in the hospital as you support your client into that readmission. I want to take this the next step further. So like you're saying, it's really difficult to get that initial meeting with the case manager. And it takes months. It takes a lot of relationships, a lot of, you know, build up to getting into that meeting. And so I want to talk about once you actually get that meeting, what it looks like.

They're busy. They've got a lot going on. And so are those meetings traditionally like five to 10 minutes? And how do you capitalize on that time when it's all of this buildup and then you've got this opportunity and you don't want to mess it up? Yeah. So thanks for that because I'm going to the hospital next week. No, I think it's one, if it's during like the working day and you're visiting a client or you have an opportunity where it's like a five minute break, it's come prepared. Don't sell high. Be yourself. Give a card, give a brochure, highlight what separates you from other companies. So for us, we specialize with long-term care insurance that provides safer discharges. We can implement additional service lines. We help them

through the process of claims and claims management and really guide them through that process. But then we also have a hospital readmission program called DART. You know, it's a discharge admission reduction team. So, you know, I think it's one understanding who the case manager, for me, I actually identified like what floor are they on? So if they're an orthopedic case manager, I know their turnaround time's quick. Operation, pain management, monitoring, discharge. So maybe I would talk more about like, hey, we could staff same day. We have a fall prevention program. We have this, we have that, because they're really discharging while they're admitting post-op. But if I'm doing like an in

service, the first thing I, two things I do, I thank them for their time. And then I say, how much time do I have? So when they tell me 15 minutes, I set my alarm on my phone to 12 and I jump right into it. I give a very, very brief background about myself because a lot of it's fluff. It's all information. They know what you do. I think it's important for them to know who you are and what your purpose is. But I think what's more important is like, how are you going to help me today if I actually refer you, right? So do you have signature programs? What makes your caregivers quality? Why do you have a, you know, 1% readmission rate, Wayne, you know, tell me what it looks like. So again, I'm literally just painting a picture of clients we've helped to experiences that we offer our clients and caregivers and what it looks like logistically. Hey, you call my office.

This is how intake will work. You call my cell phone directly. This is who's going to show up. These are updates you're going to get once a client's on service. When our clients graduate our readmission program, we give them a certificate and it's going to be sent to you. We funnel everything up to where it starts. So you got to keep in mind, these case managers think about 50 things while you're talking.

That's it. So they could pick up on one thing. What's that one thing you want them to be like, okay, like he or she gets it and I'm actually going to give you a shot. So I think it's really just, you got to be really observant and understanding your audience, but also again, know your team. If I'm talking to case managers on the cardiac floor, I'm talking specifically how we're helping cardiac clients and patients. I was going to ask that about how many case managers are there in a hospital? It varies. I mean, some are 15 and then some could be 40 plus. It depends on the system. I mean,

one of my biggest referral sources with my prior home care agency was one of the largest hospitals in the state. So, and they changed floors and they had floaters, but I really zeroed in on a few different floors. And then I focused on them. I didn't shotgun that because if it's a big hospital, if you're going to business from the ortho floor, you don't have to go to the spinal floor the next time, stay in ortho, right? Like learn how they discharge, learn how they work. So I was getting a lot of work from ortho and step down ICU cardiac. And I'm not a clinician, but I knew when I got a call from the cardiac department, exactly how much time I had, the conditions they were in. I built partners because most of my cardiac patients were diabetic. I had private school nursing partners.

My nursing team was set up for success. We had carriers coming in, being trained for cardiac needs and ortho needs. And I was able to track individual numbers and provide additional training. So when the hospital knows you're doing all that on the backend and you have the numbers, they don't need to refer anyone else. It almost came to a point where I was just care coordinating because they're like, call Wayne, call this company, call Amada. And they just knew what our process is, just like we knew what their process is. So I think it's really zeroing in on and committing to the people that are referring to you. Amazing. Amazing. You're going into the direction that I want to head, which is I imagine these case managers are really protective of their own contact information. Obviously you are

leaving a card, leaving a brochure so they know who you are. I imagine they kind of safeguard their own information. So what does the ongoing follow-up look like? Which is, you were just kind of saying like training, we get in, we come back at week after week. Like you have to stay so top of mind and how do you do that over the long haul with someone this important? So how do I stay in mind to them or how do I communicate back to them? Yeah. How do you stay top of mind for this case manager after that kind of like initial meeting? Well, the first thing I do is what's the best form of contact I can reach you at, right? Like case managers walk around with like three phones in their pocket.

So, you know, best form, they say email. Okay. It's email or call my work style. So for me, when I was first marketing, it was my cell phone. But a lot of times, I was in presentations, doing events, and that wasn't really successful as I was getting more business. So we created a lot of good internal intake processes and it's what we do here now at Imada.

So it's setting very clear expectations with educating. Like if you do have a referral for the best way for your patient family to get the most immediate response, this is our process, right? I don't want any of your patients waiting an hour if I'm meeting with another family, like that could happen. So I think it's the education aspect in terms of, you know, telling that to the case management, giving them kind of cheat sheets, like rack cards, brochures, based on their form of contact, just kind of putting out feelers like, hey, you know, based on their form of contact, just kind of putting out feelers like, hey, you know, just saying, hello, this is exactly how we can help. You know, how is everything on your end? And there's other ways to ask for the business. And then ultimately,

it's just staying top of mind, you know, really communicating with them, whether you're doing newsletters, so forth. But every case manager, every hospital is different. So it's really hard for me to answer that in specifics, because I have people that text, I have people that I'm on email chains. But for me, I just ask what's the best form of contact for me to either answer a referral for you or for me to update you regarding any of your patients you refer to us. Yeah, that's great. And I understand that, yeah, every person is different and has different preferences, which is curious if there were kind of trends there, but it sounds like there really is a mixed bag of texting email to visiting them in person. It really just is up to them and

their preference, which, which is great. I know we're diving deep into hospitals, but I know this is important for you and something that you've spent a lot of time doing. And I think it really is every home care owner's kind of dream to get into big hospital systems. And so appreciate you bearing with me as we dive in here. Anything else that you, before we kind of move on from hospitals, anything else that you want to share that we haven't talked about, about just like kind of tips and advice when it comes to referral marketing with big hospital systems? Not necessarily. I mean, the biggest thing I could say with hospital referring is like,

you don't give up. Continue to be yourself. Continue to build internal processes and logistics because they're going to hammer you with questions. Like these people are originals. They're OGs. They don't take crap from anything for anyone. So like it's be prepared.

Don't be intimidated, but be consistent because you're providing a service. A lot of other agencies are going to give up as you're continuing to build relationships there, continue to build relationships in the community. Cause you get that call for a referral of a client or a patient. That's not a client of yours come prepared. But if you do have one of your clients that go to the hospital, you know, provide a good customer service because that's your client. The family relies on you and an agency to transition them back home because most of our clients are the children, right? The client's the mom or dad and the sister or brother, but most of the people setting up the

service are the children. So you're providing, again, hospitality. Make sure that family knows you're there for the right reason, not to solicit and build business, but also build your partnerships because your client who goes to the hospital might need rehab. They might need home health. They might need hospice. They might need senior living and also never overstep a case manager. If he or she has three recommendations for rehab, you say, I have a partnership with them. I'm more than happy to help. You just let me know. So that's probably the biggest thing is never overstep them and just go with the recommendations,

but have partners or resources on the back end to support your clients or any new client that comes on service. Yeah. Really great advice. I would like to dive into maybe two other, two or three other referral sources, if that's okay. I know we kind of went into hospitals. I think a couple of you mentioned SNFs is another one, big, big one for you.

What, what, which ones do you want to go into? Can we kind of deep dive on for a few minutes? mentioned SNFs is another one, big, big one for you. What, what, which ones do you want to go into? Can we kind of deep dive on for a few minutes? SNFs is fine. Does that seem like the best one? So yeah, talk about your approach with SNFs. How do they obviously vary from hospital systems and what are kind of the initial strategy and tactics to get in there? I mean, the strategies can kind of defer, they're indifferent.

I mean, one, it's again, I'm a data geek and it's funny because I hated accounting and finance during school. But for me, it was like understanding the buildings, coming prepared. So if I did meet someone on the first time, like I kind of had a good sense and feel of the building. Really like to keep it kind of one-on-one is like, do your data, do your research. If you are able to speak to anyone, schedule a tour, like learn. Don't just start selling because it's not going to work.

In a weird way, it's kind of like you're dating. You know, you come in tons of info, brochures, cookies, coffee. It's like, whoa, right? Just like you're on the first date. Like, what are you doing? So I think it's tour, get a good feel of what they offer. Do they have a specialized program in-house? Do they specialize with pulmonary care? Do they have an ortho program? Get a feel for the patients, see them in rehab, kind of just see how they

operate. You have to understand all this stuff before you even talk about what you do. And as you're touring, you might get lucky. That social worker's office door might be open, and the person touring, you might introduce you. So come prepare and have a couple of business cards in your pocket, but don't give out too much because you might only have one shot. And then from there, what I'm really trying to do is during a tour, seeing, hey, what activities do you offer your patients internally? Do you co-market? How can I support you with either of those? And how often do you meet as a team? Do you meet weekly? I mean, now it's like every day, every other week,

monthly. So I'm really trying to set up an in-service where I can provide education. And for me, an in-service is a presentation, but it's more of a conversation. So if I can get the department heads in one room before breakfast or lunch or a utilization review meeting or a carefully meeting, whatever your markets, referral sources call them, I want a 10, 15 minute opportunity to educate you on what we do, but I also want 10 to 15 minutes of what your pain points are, what your challenges are, what your referral process looks like, what your discharge process looks like, what hospitals do you work with, what home health people do you work with? Because whoever they tell me, I'm going right to them. So I want it to be part,

I get FOMO, I'm going to be part of it. So, you know, I think it's really tour, get to know the building, get to know them, continue to be consistent, continue to communicate. They give you any level of business, support them. You know, a lot of activity directors and departments, they don't, you know, they may need support with budgets, engage with the patients during events, like humble yourself and remind yourself that you're caring for people. And have an opportunity to set up an in-service. And honestly, after your in-service, ask for a shot.

Ask for a trial. Give me 30 days because I can talk the talk, but I want to walk the walk too. And continue to be consistent. Ask them, can I come here weekly? Can I come here biweekly? Do you want to do maybe an in-service and update each other in terms of us referring each other and marketing and maybe data sharing every quarter? Create a process and become part of their process. So again, every SNF is different, but that's my approach. I mean, I'm touring still within a year in.

I'm learning, which is great. A lot of places now have specialized programs. So if I have someone who is in the hospital and they have a hip replacement, I know exactly what SNF is four or five-star rated that have ortho programs. So that's going to better my client, better their experience. I'm doing in-services. I have systems in place where I go to certain SNFs. I have different cadences where now I'm in skilled nursing facilities talking about, okay, we're going to do this event this quarter. You refer to us two clients. We referred you five.

We have a 1% readmission rate. Wayne's going to do, you know, the lunch and learn or the candy station for our patients. We're going to do this together. We're going to do an Alzheimer's walk there. Like, I'm like, I have a seat now at sometimes these meetings, obviously before they talk about patients because of privacy, but it's really, it's, it's, it's a rewarding feeling, not just to get business, but when they think of you for multiple things outside of just home care, and that's really what you want to create yourself

and how you're going to differentiate yourself from the competition. Especially when they give you a literal seat at the table is, is, you know, means you're doing your job, which is amazing. You mentioned as part of that in-service, you typically ask them what their key challenges are. I'm curious, you've talked to and worked with a lot of SNFs. What are the top two to three challenges that they immediately state out of the gate? The most trending one is when I give a referral,

I have no clue what happens to them after. I'm not kidding you. I've asked my first six months of doing this. I asked every social worker, what do I do different? Because I'm going kidding you. I've asked my first six months of doing this. I asked every social worker, what do I do different? Because I'm going to pull my hair out. And they literally said, I wrote this down. I went to social workers that were doing this for a long time. I wanted to work with the toughest people because I knew if I had to be corrected or reprimanded, at least they were teaching me something. But I knew if I can really get their blessing, I would be just

fine. And they all said to me, when I get a referral, I have no clue what happens. And then obviously it's, you know, readmissions, people fall. We have, you know, a few patients that are meeting their therapy goals. We have more people going home on more medication or they're required to have more medical equipment. One of the biggest things in New Jersey for me is the length of stay. We get a patient, but then they're only here for maybe two weeks versus your traditional 21 to 30 days. So for me, now I'm thinking outside the box, okay, if you're telling me more of your admissions, your patients are spending less time here, maybe due to insurance or they're not engaging so much

in therapy. How do I help you? So I would say two to three is communication. There's always a lack of that. There's a lot more. The acuity, the care level of the patients is much higher. It's much greater than ever. And then it's also the care as they're admitting, they're discharging at the same time. So the expectations, the length

of stay, I guess more or less the expectations are much greater for them because obviously there's a demand, like they're being funneled patients from doctors and hospitals and other providers. So that is literally just like the last few things that I've been told the last month. Yeah. I want to tap into that first one, which is just the communication around a referral is That is literally just like the last few things that I've been told the last month. And it changed. Yeah, I want to tap into that first one, which is just the communication around a referral is given and then what. That seems so obvious and straightforward. But how do you mitigate that? Is it an email that spells out the plan of care?

Or is it a visit every time a referral is given? Like, what does that process look like? And I also want to put in here, it's really common for people to come and go from these offices. So maybe you get all this stood up with, you know, X person, and then in six months they're gone and you have to reset it up. So I think there's just a lot of turnover in healthcare and that makes your job especially challenging. So how do you, like, what's your process to communicate to them what happens when that referral is given? Emails. Em first, if it's not documented and never happened. Plus I like paper trails. So emails, I mean, my biggest thing, and I'll go rewind a little bit

as I'm working within the skilled nerve facilities, my job is to what I call it. My job is to blanket the account. You know, everyone goes to the social worker, everyone goes to the discharge planner. There's nothing wrong with it. They are facilitating a discharge, but I'm talking to everybody. I mean, I talk to dietary managers, maintenance directors, because if turnover happens, you want those relationships to help you with introductions to the new people coming in. So for me, it's emails. This is the plan of care. This is how our meeting went because they're documenting that too, right? They're putting a plan of care in place because then that plan of care might go to a hospice provider. It might go to a home health provider. They might kick that update back to

a physician. Like I want my company's name and plan of care and us on that documentation because that's going to create organic word of mouth. Like who is this company continuing to get referred and updating like this and providing good outcomes and a good service? Like who are they? Like you will get that. So for me, it's emails. If I have a direct relationship with someone who referred, I'll be like, Hey, I sent an email. I'll text them. It does vary. But I come in, we come in in person with updates too. So for me to maintain a relationship back to question number one or two, whatever it was is, you know is I'm coming in with success stories. I'm even sometimes coming in with service failures. No one's perfect, but this is what we're doing to re-implement a process. This is what we're doing to change a process. Hey, the client you referred me six months ago,

she's now getting her hair done twice a month and is active. And maybe six months ago, she wasn't even walking. So they want to hear that. And I like doing it too, because it's a good, it's a feel good feeling, but that's a nice way of me asking for the businesses. I'm painting pictures on clients that have on service and clients that they've been referred to me because they can sit in front of one of the meetings and think of the same as that client that you have in service. So it's email at first, you know, you want to blanket the account. You want to make sure that every department leader is on that email because everyone has a different role. You want to, you know, maybe say, maybe you have a good relationship with like the social

worker, director of rehab. Like, Hey, I sent an email. Everything went great. Let me know if you and the team have any questions. And then I'm coming in during, if it's a weekly visit, bi-weekly visit, monthly visit, I have a purpose and a goal. And more importantly, I have a direct purpose of me going there. You know, there's always going to be small talk like, yeah, my weekend was good. I had the kids, all that stuff. But it's more like, hey, Mrs. Jones is doing great. Just wanted to let

you know. She's awesome. She's been on service three months. She's had the same caregiver. We're working with the home health you refer. We're working with X, Y, and Z. Because now they're thinking, okay, you work with the home health. So when I refer home health, you refer, we're working with X, Y, and Z. Because now they're thinking, okay, you were with the home health. So when I refer home health, I'm going to think about you, vice versa. And I actually have two clients just like Mrs. Jones from three months ago. Here's a face sheet, go call the family. So actually my bread and butter. So I think it's just consistency communication and being human about it. And documenting everything. Yes. To kind of close out sniffs, any other kind of last like tips and or pitfalls for people to be aware of when it comes to working with sniffs?

Just be consistent. I say it so much, but it's, it's crazy how simple it sounds, but it was often how it's just not done. Continue to build partners, ask questions, get to know every single thing about them.

And don't be afraid to ask. Ask them because they were new once. They've been through this. They deal with so many vendors. Just ask questions and don't be afraid to admit like you might not know what's going on or if you had a service failure, own to it, be accountable and ask them, how can I do better? I had a referral source tell me about a month ago, I'm not going to tell you how to run your business. I said, I'm going to be honest with you. Can you please tell me how? So she's kind of like the cool aunt. She's been doing this for 40 years.

She's a nurse, but she'll tell you exactly what you need to do better. And I said, listen, seriously, what could we have done better? And I took that information. I shared it with the team and we got a couple more clients and we're doing exactly what we could have done better, much better. So I appreciate the transparency and she felt comfortable saying that to me because I was comfortable asking her questions and taking constructive criticism very well. So just be consistent, ask questions, get to know them before you tell them about you and you'll be completely fine. Yeah, I love that example. She asks, you know, or she says, don't, you know, I'm not going to tell you how to run your business. But you're like, well, actually, that's exactly what I want to know is what you're expecting from me. Yeah, you've been a nurse for 40 years.

Can you tell me more? Yeah. So we've gone through hospitals. We've gone through SNFs. Let's pick one more. If you've got time, let's, I just want to keep talking to you. Let's get, let's get one more. One more that is, you've seen a lot of success with, or we can also do one more. That's

like kind of an outlier one that you've one source that you've maybe been surprised by that is less common. Which one do you want to tackle? I don't want to defer to you. I mean, I worked with a lot of, you know, see a living assisted living communities. Let's go, let's go with that because yeah, let's go with that. Sure. Yeah. Let's, let's start there. How do they differ from the other two that we've talked to, whether that's personnel or initiatives, you know, what, what kind of sets them apart and how do you approach them because of that? I mean, well, there's a lot of communities here in New Jersey and there's a lot of communities everywhere and they're all great, but I think it's one understand, you know, are they a social model? Are they a care model? Are they both? Again, same concept with skilled nursing facilities tour. They're completely different. They provide

different tiers of care. They have lots of social engagement activities involved. They have rehab, they have outings. Every community is really, really, really different. So again, it's the one-on-one schedule a tour, set up an in-service, get the department heads in together, identify their pain points, their challenges. But it's just a living. So some don't need care around the clock. Some need very minimal. And some just get maybe a few hours a week, maybe even more like medication management.

For me, I think the goal and I guess the approach is, you know, what do they see on a day-to-day basis when it comes to even like the care they offer, right? So assisted living is somewhere like higher in demand, like get to sales and fill the apartments. But they kind of, they're working a lot with the same partners you're working with, you know, hospitals and skilled nurse facilities, but they do with a lot of clients in homes. So I always talk about if anyone needs help at home prior to moving in, we could be a resource for them to kind of transition them into a new home setting because it is a new home setting for these seniors, aging adults.

So we provide the care if someone's like, is there a lot of falls? Is there a shorter staffing ratio, you know, at night? Do they need more overnight care? Can an actual resident of their age in place? Is there a worry list? Do they provide hospice? So they can have a lot of resources in-house and they also offer a lot of resources in-house. So I think really it's identifying one, who they work with and then two, what are their pain points? Because if they're more of like a social model, then how can I offer support on a more care model? If they're more of a care model, how can I be a supplement of their care?

But also how can I incorporate more of a social model for them? So that would be my answer. Yeah, I think that's really, really good. And I think applicable to every source is figuring out, you know, like what their goals, what their initiatives are, what their business model is and what they're trying to achieve. And then finding the way to supplement that and insert yourself. Because like you said, every assisted living, every, you know, skilled nursing facility, they're all very different.

They're run different by different people with different goals. And you have to figure out where you fit in and where you supplement. So I think that's great. Can I ask you just a couple like off the cuff questions here? And then on the script, would you say split your time out in the field versus in the office? How much time are you spending out amongst these people? As an owner, as, as I was marketing? Let's do both if you're okay, Sherry. Yeah, no. So as an owner, it changes. I mean, I follow a very strict sales activity system and I hold myself accountable. So last month I was 80% productive with my activity. It's not a hundred, so it's not a hundred percent, but it was an increase from the previous month.

So I would say about 65 to 70% of my time as an owner is out in the field. The rest is in-house supporting my team. And then when I was doing just home care, it was about 90% to 95% out in the field. And then the other 5% to 10% difference was we had team meetings, like monthly, quarterly, annual meetings, or just popping in, giving support to my staffing, nursing team, HR, like everyone like, hey, great week this week or great month, you know, bring them some coffee. That's who I'll bring coffee and snacks to is my team that, you know, has put me in a position to be successful because, you know, over time when you're doing sales, you don't

sell without the support behind you and you need to really buy into that. But as an owner, it does change. And, you know, I am going, I'm in that point where, you know, a lot of good mentors of mine have been through that. So I'm kind of taking, I can't mirror image of what they've done, but I've kind of, now I'm feeling the, you know, the tension. I don't have enough time for this. I'm hitting, you know, anywhere between, you know, 800 to a thousand hours per week. And I'm kind of just stuck there. So it's like, all right, what's my next move? And one of my previous mentors taught me, I need to be out there because if I'm in the office a lot, I get crazy anxiety.

But I also, if I'm in the field too much, then I get anxiety that my team isn't feeling supported by their owner. I never say owner, I'm their colleague. But right now I'm about 70 to 75%, but guess what? You're only going to get them 70% results. So I'm going through a huge growing pain, a good pain, but that, yeah, about 70%. This is really good for people to hear. I appreciate you sharing that. Two other questions I want to ask. One is about technology. You've worked for several companies, and so you've been exposed to, I'm assuming, a variety of technology. A lot of large home care owners go through this battle of their agency management system, WellSky, AccessCare, CareSwitch, can do some of the sales tracking, but it typically can't do maybe everything that a full-fledged CRM like a Salesforce or HubSpot can do.

What's your take on that? What have you used and what is your preference when it comes to actually documenting all the sales efforts, especially at scale? Yeah. So all great companies. However, the type of activity and sales tracking that I do, I haven't figured it out yet. That's okay. That's a good answer. So every time I feel that it's a good platform it's great for others but for me i'm just maybe i'm just a tough client like i'm just not it just doesn't fit in my system as much because we our our sales activity is very customized

it's not just go there and document it's's like, okay, what's the frequency? What's working? What's not working? And what's your activity, right? So there's some referral sources. I'm there every week, but that one week I'll maybe bring a breakfast because that's what works and that's what I need to do. So I've done a lot of different platforms where we've entered activity and we pulled reports, but it just wasn't really kind of sticking.

For me, it was kind of tough to manage because all these reports. I've created some tools internally that I can see things live, whether it's on my phone, where I could be like, oh, wow, I'm only 50% productive with this referral source at the click of a button. So I've created my own templates and Excel sheets. I'll admit it. I haven't found anything yet that's given me what I'm looking for. And if, when I grow a marketing team, not much yet for me to manage.

I like to kind of pull up a tool, pull it up and talk about it to my team and say like, this is our productivity for the month. This is our activity. This is why we're not getting business. Here's the, here it is right in front of our face. And of course, we use one of the platforms you use for scheduling, billing, and so forth, which is a great experience. It's just for me, I'm always trying to look more into the future. How can we advance things through tech? Because we got to grow and we got to learn. Technology's moving faster than ever. AI is moving faster than ever. We have to adapt to that,

right? Our industry changes literally like, I think 10 minutes ago, it just changed, right? So I think it's always keeping on top of what's trending and how can you support us internally and most importantly, like our caregivers, because technology can be overwhelming for them, even clients. If clients want to view the schedule or a caregiver log, it's teaching them how to use a computer or a phone. So I think it's always upkeeping. But in terms of tracking my sales, I have my own internal tools that have just been very successful for me. And I keep learning, but I keep saying,

man, if I had like a really smart IT friend, I would probably have the best platform of all time. But again, everything changes. So when everything goes good for one month, something else changes, like, oh, I would love that to be customized this way. And then maybe I don't have patience to wait six months for a report to be generated. Well, good, good response. I think you're in the camp of a lot of other owners and operators. There's not really great sales tools for home care, but like you just mentioned,

like there's a lot of inherent change in sales. And so it is tough to build a platform that satisfies all those needs. But I will, you know, self-serving comment that CareSwitch is on their way there to build some really good sales tools and functionality using AI for home care, because we know there's a big gap here that a lot of people are trying to fill and no judgment at all that you've turned to Excel. We know a lot of people do that and you have kind of your own way and process of doing things. And that's totally fine. So that's why I wanted to ask you one more question. You mentioned that you guys are trying to hire another sales marketer. Obviously you've been hired as a sales and marketing professional. And so I'm curious what it is you look for when you're hiring a sales and marketing professional for home

care? What are the things that matter the most to you that you think would bring in a good hire for the role? Magic question, right? Honestly, authenticity. Be yourself. Who I talk to today better be the person that you talk. You are with referral sources and with families.

Don't sugarcoat it. Don't fake it till you make it. Be real. Be real, be authentic, compassionate, driven, motivated. You're going to be told no, so have some thick skin. Be able to take constructive criticism very well because we all mess up. I probably messed up five times today. I don't, probably. Just really just be a well-rounded person with a big heart, understand the purpose of the job. Yes, sales, it's demanding, but the culture that we have here and that I'm used to is it's going to take time. And we're going to give you the tools and the resources and support to alleviate maybe being told no for three

months. I really just want someone just to be a human being. And I know that sounds like, I don't know if it's cliche and natural. I just, it's really hard to find really good people who do this. And that's why there's a lot of turnover. That's why there's challenges. That's why even with people with tons of relationships, they're on their fourth home care agency because it's like figuring out like, how do I do this? And like, I'm doing everything I'm told. I just can't get a referral and land a client to be on service. It really starts with, for me, just be yourself. And we've, we were interviewing really good people where I, I interview them like as if I'm a referral source or a client, because if I know you're going to respond that way, you're going to be fine because I'm extremely confident that the tools, the resources, the strengths, the skills that I have, my team has, it's going to make you a really

good professional and a really good person. But I also know that the strengths and skills that you have are going to make us even better as a company. You'll all learn from one another. So that's really, really important for me. And it's, I'd rather be patient to wait for that versus, oh my gosh, this person has a thousand relationships we got to hire. Sometimes that doesn't work. So I don't know. I view it this way. If I run into a grocery store, be the same person during an interview, just be yourself. Yeah. I love that. I love that concept too, of interviewing them from the lens of an actual referral partner, you know, like put them in the seat of what they're going to be doing and interview them from that perspective. I also want to highlight someone took a chance on you, you know, what, eight or 10 or 12 years ago.

And so, you know, you came into this with hospitality background, restaurant background, which is applicable, but really someone kind of took a chance on you. And so I imagine your apps to be willing to take a chance on someone else that is authentic and then kind of checks your boxes, whereas you can teach and train all of the home care knowledge. Yeah, that's for me, that's like the biggest thing I want to give back to this community and this industry is, yes, you're right. A family took a chance on me and it was hard training, right? An incredible company and they gave me the tools, but I had to buy in.

Like I had to buy in. I had to trust processes. And, you know, one of the things, you know, when you go through this is like, speak up a little bit, right? Like if you're thinking of a program, you see a trend, like speak your mind. And there's something I didn't do in the beginning. I was listening. Thank goodness, because I never realized how much I knew. And then now like my business partners, so Bergen-Posay County, we're working for different companies. Now we're, I'm incorporating in their family and we're hiring people that were referral sources of ours. And we're creating an incredible culture and providing an amazing service. And we're just

constantly thinking. So yeah, people have taken chances on me, like my whole life. And I don't know why. I think it's now I'm like so grateful for it. And for now, everyone who walks in, even to a carrier, we're like, I just want to give you it all because the advice that I'm given from people that done business for 20 years doing this or five or six, like if I could take advice for someone doing this for 20 years and I'm only like my eighth year in, like I better listen. So I'm just trying to make people really good at what they do and learn from them and just be accountable and just continue to grow. Awesome.

Wayne, I think I want to end here. I love that response so much that I think I want to end here. This has been such a fun conversation. You've come so prepared and I think you've delivered so much value to the people listening to this. And I think just your comment about authenticity speaks to who you are. You know, just look at what you've just delivered. I think you are really just yourself and you've learned a lot and you're humble and

you're learning and growing along the way. And I think that's a message for all owners and operators around the country listening to this is that we, even if you've been it for two years to 20 years to 40 years, like there's always something to learn. Home care really is changing every single day and we've got to be adaptable and humble and continue to learn and educate ourselves. And I think you really embody that way. I appreciate it. Thank you so much.

Well, we'll go ahead and wrap here. Thanks everyone for listening. Reach out to Wayne, connect with him on LinkedIn. He's a great person to have in your corner. Again, he's up in the New Jersey market, but like he shared today, he's always apt to share with other owners and operators. Although he is busy, connect with him, reach out to them. We've really, I think just scratched the surface on some of your knowledge when it comes to referral marketing and sales. And I know we could probably talk for 12 hours about this topic and we could deep dive on it, but I think we've given some really good insights today. So thank you, Wayne. And thank you everyone for listening. We'll be back same day, same time next week. Awesome. Thank you so much.

That's a wrap. This podcast was made by the team at CareSwitch, the first AI-powered management software for home care agencies. If you want to automate away the menial of your day-to-day with AI so that you and your team can focus on giving great care, check us out at careswitch.com.