Home Care U - Retention Strategies to Keep Caregivers For the Long-Haul (Kristin Beckholt & Stephanie Coursey Pt. 2)

Episode Date: October 29, 2023

Kristin Beckholt is a home care success story—an RN who started her own agency, scaled it, and now helps other agencies do the same. Part of her secret is her laser-focus on caregiver experience and culture, starting with the moment they apply. Come here both sides of the story as we interview Kristin alongside her lead care professional, Stephanie Coursey. In this episode we discuss their Tik Tok account: you can find it at @ihcofwashington on Tik Tok.Enjoying the show? Send me a text and let me know!Learn more about Careswitch at: careswitch.comConnect with the host on LinkedIn: Miriam Allred This episode was produced by parkerkane.co

Hey, welcome to Home Care U, a podcast made by the team at Care Switch. Nobody went to school to learn how to run a home care agency, so we're bringing the education to you. Join our live audience by going to careswitch.com slash homecareu or listen on your own time wherever you get your podcasts. Home Care U is hosted by myself, Miriam Allred, and Connor Koons of CareSwitch. Enjoy the session. Welcome to HomeCare U.

I'm excited for part two of this discussion on caregiver onboarding, retention, from the point that they apply on through their time with your agency. So returning this week, we have two leaders from the interim healthcare location in Macomb, Michigan. I said that right, right? You did. We have Kristen, who is the owner and also director of operations and nursing. And then we have Stephanie, who is the lead care pro or one of the lead care pros, I should say. So last week, if you haven't listened to it, go check it out. We talked about how to retain applicants from the moment they apply up through day 90 with your agency. And so today we're going to be continuing that conversation by talking about what you can do beyond day 90 to keep retaining caregivers, make your agency a good

place where they want to be for the long haul. This agency in particular that we're talking to today have done a great job of this. They came highly recommended to me. They were full of insights last time, and I'm excited to continue that today. So I guess before we give kind of more of the specific preview of what topics we'll go into, if each of you just kind of want to give a brief intro, I guess starting with Kristen and then Stephanie. So my name is Kristen, Kristen Beckholt. I am a director of nursing and an owner here at Interim Healthcare of Macomb. My background is in nursing. My last bedside nursing role was as a hospice nurse, and I've done everything from emergency administrative

on to hospice. All throughout that, I recognized a real need for follow-up care in the home, teaching of family members, teaching of caregivers, the need to be able to either prevent hospital readmission or just, especially in my hospice role, I saw the need to be able to provide support and care to the person that's usually there 23 hours of the day. So in 2017, my husband and I opened up interim healthcare of Macomb. And here we are almost six years later, and it's gone. It's gone bumpy. It's gone. Well, we've learned a lot. I'm a nurse by trade. I've taught myself just about everything I know business-wise, but that's the way I've enjoyed it. And I'm lucky to have a supportive team with me. Stephanie is one of many that help make up that executive leadership team that really keep us going full steam ahead.

So it's a little bit about me. Love it. Thank you. And thanks again for joining and sharing your experience and insights with us. Of course. Thanks for having me. And my name is Stephanie and I've been providing care for about 10 years. I've always had a passion for helping those in need, especially the elderly. A very special person that I took care of was my grandmother while she was on hospice inside of her home. So that's why the care that I do

provide is very special to me. And I treat all of my clients as if they were family. Great. Thanks for being here. And thanks for being willing to add a very important caregiver's perspective to the topic today. It's easy to go through these types of things and talk about what caregivers want and how to help caregivers. And often we overlook the voices of those that we're actually talking about. So we really appreciate your perspective. So kind of a teaser of how we'll go through this episode.

So like I said, we're going to talk about retention beyond day 90. So this is like not so much all the things of like what you can do to help make sure your new caregivers stay on but all the ongoing efforts that affect your whole team throughout their time with your agency and how to prolong that time with your agency what i want to do is basically kristen if you can kind of give just like the bullet point list of like, here are the initiatives or programs that you do there that are kind of the most impactful for retention and just kind of like list those off. And then we'll go through each of those, you know, I'll ask whatever questions about them. You can give more detail on them one by one. And then for each of those, we'll also

hear from Stephanie on like, what has your experience been with this thing? How have you liked it? What do you appreciate about it? You know, what advice do you have for agencies wanting to do it? If we have time, there are various other topics of things that are maybe not quite as tightly related to this that we talked about last time that I kind of want to ask further questions on, like your agency's TikTok account and other things. So we'll see if we get to those. Before we get rolling, for those who are joining us, remember that Home Care U is both a live class and a podcast. If you want to join live and ask questions, go to careswitch.com slash homecareu. You can register free there and see the schedule, or you can listen to the replays as podcast episodes called Home Care U.

U is in university, wherever you get your podcasts. So with that being said, Kristen, I'll hand it off to you. Interestingly enough, when Stephanie was talking about her why as to why she likes to do home care, I think a huge part of our initiative is finding out their why. Why do they want to be with us? After that 90 days, why are they still with us? What do they like about us? What are they in this role for? What are they looking for in return? So that's probably a big part of developing that family community is getting to know them. Also letting them know how much training and advancement opportunities that we have. From day one, it starts with letting them know what they can do, how they can grow, how they can develop into a career outside of this, if that's what

their goal is. That's a second initiative. A third would probably be, I think the most vital is really just appreciating them and recognizing them. We don't ever want somebody to feel like they're just an employee. They're just somebody who makes money for us because that is not why we're here. The main reason that I'm here is obviously to provide quality in-home care. But the second and most important, probably most valuable to myself is to really empower these ladies to feel confident to go out and then replicate their skills, their abilities. So that in and of itself would be the three biggest initiatives that I would speak to with the onboarding program. Onboarding really doesn't end. I think it starts the minute they walk in the door

for the interview. And I think it continues on until the exit interview. It's really, we're continually informing them, continually including them. Stephanie and I were talking a little bit just before the podcast about how we want them to feel like they have the ins and outs of what's going on behind the scenes here. What's coming up and what's new? What are our different initiatives that we're taking on? And then they feel like a little bit of an ownership. Once they feel that

ownership, they're much more likely to be accountable to those shifts, be accountable to their commitments. Gotcha. I think some things that you had mentioned also last time that I'm interested in are the skills workshops, the ways that you've kind of built opportunities to advance as lead care pros and potentially even beyond that. And then you mentioned some specifics in how frequent you communicate and stuff like that. Can we talk about, I guess, first, the skills workshops? It sounds like those have been really popular. How do those work? At orientation, we implement skills then and there. So Amy, who's our educator, she sees what they're capable of. Twice a year, so every six months, we have a mandatory in-lab skills checkoff. And so each and every employee is required to come in and show and do return demonstration, or if they need it, have the teaching and then return demonstration on basic but also a little more higher acuity things, things like possibly trach care or wound dressing changes. Granted, these are things that have to be done under a nurse's supervision.

But once a nurse has signed off on that, then they are able to go into the home and do that. So we need to know that they're capable of these things. A big thing is preventing skin breakdown. So we want to really hone in on things that they need to be looking for when they're giving a bed bath, things that they need to be looking for when they're transferring a patient and the proper techniques. We have catheter care, we have perennial care, we have mobility, we have insulin administration, lawyer lift, right, all the mobility all of your we have a stairs. So the proper way to go up and down the stairs, how to use a gate belt feel a little more comfortable. And it also gives us as administration peace of mind and knowing that we're not sending somebody who states that they can into a home when in fact they may not have the skills

that they're saying they do. So it sounds like you do all those things or at least like you train them or just make sure that they have been trained on all those things when they're first hired. And then how do like the ongoing workshops or like whatever the ongoing program is, how does that feed into that? Or like, what does it have to do with it? Well, so we also do monthly in-services. So we do two monthly in-services. We offer one in the morning and one in the evening. I think we just had one yesterday, this week or this month is end-of-life care. So we have a nurse that comes in and teaches end-of-life care and what that looks like as a caregiver, what our responsibilities

are. This then gives them the skills to be able to add to their repertoire end-of-life care. And then they're able to be able to take care of end of life and hospice patients. Those are mandatory, mandatory in services. And then, like I said, the twice a year mandatory skills checkoff. It also is a great opportunity for the employees to get together, to meet each other. There's, you know, this is an industry where you're part of a team, but you don't always see your teammates unless you're handing off shift or sometimes, you know, you don't, you don't get to meet very many of them at all. So we found that skills workshop days twice a year provide that great opportunity. We give them a gift. Obviously they're paid to come in and, and get that done, but it's also an opportunity for teaching. And so if they have a patient that

is developing some wounds, they can talk to one of us and we have the training to show them stage one, two, three, the different creams that are available, when to talk to a nurse, when to get that, when to ask for that script for, for skilled care. Things like this that aren't typical of every home care agency. We want to be the start and the finish from the beginning to the end of a client's journey. Do you also have like an online self-paced program that you use at all? We do. Which one do you use? What do you? We use Care Academy. We've used them now for a little over a year and a half. We also use them for our clinicians. It's nice because there's so much content available. A lot of it is video content, which I like rather than PDF form.

And I also like the fact that you can we can create our own videos and our own content and upload it to that. So in doing so, we can group our employees into level one, level two, level three, give them the appropriate classes that they need. If they're taking care of a patient that has an ostomy and they've never taken care of a patient, but we need them in the home right away, maybe Amy's not available to meet them there. Maybe the lead care pro is, but she's not

real proficient with ostomy care. We make sure that they have had that, at least the basic training of the video, the test, and then signed off on. Gotcha. Stephanie, you mentioned that you came on with this agency already as a fairly experienced caregiver. I think you said that you'd already been working as a caregiver for like caregiver? I think you said that you'd already been working as a caregiver for like nine years. Is there anything that you want to add as far as your perspective on the ongoing training opportunities or how they may have been beneficial or anything like that? Yeah, I just think it's good. Like I said last week, we might get a new client, like she said, and someone can't meet us out there

and they have a catheter and maybe I haven't taken care of a patient that's, you know, had a catheter in a long time. It's good to come in to do that workshop just to have that extra experience and comfort before I go into the client's home and take care of them. So our skills lab is open at all times. They're always able to come in and get adequately trained or retrained on any skill that they feel they need brushed up on. The mandatories are the twice a year workshops that we require, as well as the monthly in-services that are on different topics. I might have to listen back to the list here, but it sounds like there's kind of a mix of both like technically like non-skilled and skilled things being talked about here. It sounds like, like you said, like this is, these programs are used kind of both by your caregivers and also by like the clinical side of your team too. Someone is referencing that. And I think that's what is, that's what we're talking about here. Is that correct?

Yes. So, you know, there's that buzzword right now. What is it? Soft skills. I was just talking to the nurse that did our in-service yesterday about soft skills and how those are just as important as the hands-on skills and soft skills, meaning etiquette, manners, the way that you talk to a client, the way that you engage in your communication and all of those things, those are just as important. And so we make sure that we instill those as well. Education is so vast in this field, but it's so overlooked because sometimes we think that everyone has the basics of basic etiquette and basic understanding of human kindness, compassion. And sometimes it's just a matter of making eye contact to feel more confident and more comfortable or engaging family in

conversation or finding out who this client was. All of these things that really set them up for success so that they want to stay with us, that they enjoy what they do. The soft skills side of it is so important. Tell me about the opportunities for advancement in your agency and what that includes. So like I said, we like to find out what their end goal is. A lot of times my favorites are the ones that come in and are nursing students, right? Just because that's my background. So if they're a nursing student, I love to see them walk through and then, you know, ask me for that reference letter into nursing school or the clinical of

their choice. But if they're not going to nursing school, or if they possibly are a mom that could be an empty nester, we have everything from if they want to just remain a companion or a care pro, that's fine. If they have the key elements of what we're looking for, we offer them the opportunity for a care lead, which is what Stephanie is. And then we have care managers. Care managers are care leads that transition into a manager type of role. And essentially, they manage care just like a home health care would, they're going to have a team of patients and a team of staff that take care of those patients, that they're responsible for overseeing quality of care, any updates, any updates to the plans of care or communication with family. So after the care manager, if there's always opportunities within the office staff here,

maybe they want to go into marketing, maybe they want to teach an in-service. We have a occupational therapist and a physical therapy assistant that is a care pro for us. So I consult her and pay her to do in services. And, you know, one day I'm going to be exiting out of here. So there's going to be somebody that I'm going to find that I'm going to be able to groom into this position. So I like to let everybody know there's windows of opportunity. You just have to let us know what your end goal is and we'll support you through that. So tell me more about the lead care pro position specifically. I think you talked about like how they kind of take on sort of something like a care manager position. Like what's the line between what they can do and then what has to be done by someone clinical and how do you approach that line? Well, obviously

state regulations, you, state regulations differentiate. Michigan, we're a non-licensure state. We're pretty lenient when it comes to skills in the home, as long as they're overseen by a nurse that has signed off on them having the ability to be able to return, demonstrate, and teach in the home. Their responsibilities as a care lead, first and foremost, we have to see attitude and they have to have a proactive attitude, be on top of things. They're the ones that are looking and making sure that everything is arranged in the home when they're leaving to set that client up for success. Possibly they're without services for six hours until the next care pro comes in.

They're the ones that are always wanting to learn more. They're on time. They just are exemplary employees and show initiative. And so usually we can pick them out from the very beginning. And once they complete their 90 days, then they are discussed between the team developer and director of operation or manager of operations, Todd, they kind of sit together and say, okay, is this person going to be a good candidate for care lead? Yep, they are. So we offer that opportunity to them. It is a pay increase. It is a set amount of hours, which they like. So if they aren't taking care of clients, they are in the office learning the

ins and outs behind the scenes of what's going on here. They're able to take client inquiries. They shadow supervisory visits. They shadow onboarding and training out in the field. And then they morph then into the position where they're now doing some meet and greets. They're doing some hands-on training in the field. Wow. So it sounds like they get to kind of touch and learn a lot of different parts of the agency. Stephanie, what have you liked about being a lead care pro with this agency? Just like everything she has said, I always want to learn and grow with the company. Like I said, the first time I walked into this office, it instantly felt like they make you feel like you're their family.

You know, they wanted to get to know me also, not just my experience. Like you had also said, like our why. Why do I want to work for this company? And, you know, I love it. I think such a huge part of retention that people overlook is culture. Culture really just, in my opinion, sets the tone for the quality of care that you give, the quality of employees that you retain. If they feel that they're heard, that they're appreciated, that they're valued, and they have opportunity, those really are the four components of a successful retention program.

That makes sense. There's kind of a deep request I have here and let me figure out how to like phrase this. So the things that you're saying here, as far as making sure caregivers are appreciated, that they feel welcomed and valued and invested in. Those by themselves are things that I hear lots of agencies at least saying. All of the evidence that I've seen, you know, and this is coming from things I've heard about your agency. This is things that I've observed in listening to you. This is even from things like watching a bunch of your TikToks is that this really is something that is put into practice effectively with your agency. So I guess my question here is, how do you go beyond just saying that and saying something

that sounds kind of fluffy and vague and that everyone will say they do? What does it look like to actually be doing that? So I think I mentioned last week, we do a monthly newsletter and it's actually a video letter. So each of the four office roles give out a video update of the month. Right then and there, we also recognize our new employees. So there's an opportunity there for everybody to see their face. They are also given the bonus points. We include them in, we give birthday gifts. We give shout outs for, hey, thanks for picking that shift up quick. We make sure that they're recognized in front of their peers. So Bonestly is essentially like a social media bonus platform. We have monthly giveaways with those newsletters. So

if they meet certain criteria, they haven't called off for a shift, or we take very serious any type of employee compliments that are called into the office. Those are huge. So when those are given, then they earn stars. Is it stars, Caitlin, that they earn, I believe? And then the amount of stars that they earn qualifies them for drawings in our monthly giveaway. And our monthly giveaways are pretty hefty. They're $50 to $100 of something good. So I learned really early, I can't just keep throwing money at everybody to do their job well. And that was something as a new owner that I found to be very tiring. And once I learned there's a balance between monetary and just recognition and value, the wheels started turning a little bit better for me. And I didn't feel so worn out like I was having to pay, pay, pay, pay, pay. I was investing in them. They were seeing, hey, I am valuable.

She did recognize me or the team recognizes me. And it's just, in my opinion, it's the key in finding that balance. Love that. I'm just going to kind of go on my own little rant here related to that because I kind of passionately about this. So this idea of understanding that there are different things that people appreciate is so key. And like, I don't want to suggest at all that we should like not focus any less on like paying caregivers as much as possible or that kind of thing, or that other forms of appreciation are a substitute for pay. But that being said, I think one of my early mistakes when I was in management was not understanding that like, there are different like, like professional love languages, so to speak. And like people appreciate different things.

And so I'm very straightforward in what I want and in how I like to be recognized. And it's very like what I perceive as practical. And so I was trying to do that same thing when I first went into management, I learned pretty fast that just like people value different things. And like you said, yes, I think everyone would always like a pay raise. And this isn't a reason to not do that. But like, in addition to that, you know, in addition to the value that pay can bring, sometimes it is fun to get, you know, some other token of recognition to a gift card, a prize, you know, if a trip or I don't know, but that's something. A gas, you know, or a day off, but you really hit the nail on the head because in general relationships and building relationships is all about that love language and understanding what their love language is, how they receive appreciation, how they give appreciation.

So if Stephanie's love language is not words of affirmation, it is acts of service. She's going to much more appreciate me doing something for her, providing her maybe with a ham for her family at Thanksgiving that she doesn't have to cook for, or maybe getting her a meal catered than she is me giving her a shout out in front of all of her employees um so that's something i'm actually going to embark a little bit more on is investing and finding out just what all of our employees love languages are i love that because there was something else you said that i want to highlight to people which is that there are very different reactions that different people have to public

versus private recognition. Some people really love to be recognized in front of their peers. That's part of the value of it for them is to see that the people around them know about their contributions. Some people are really uncomfortable with that. And it's really good to learn who likes to be recognized how and to factor that in where possible. And just in general, I think, have a plan to show like continual recognition to your employees that kind of factors in both forms of recognition, both public and private. So love that. And as we grow as an agency, that's what an opportunity that these care managers have in overseeing their team of care pros is that they then can find out what their love language is on a deeper level, report back to us because it's going to change and it may evolve throughout their tenure with us. Love that. And I should clarify too, like when I talk about love languages, I'm not so much referring to like the specific, like formal five love languages test. It's just kind of like, there's lots of ways to recognize employees and show appreciation and they all kind

of hit differently with different people. I think safe to say that with all of us, you know, pay is a love language to a certain degree. Like that's why we're working generally. But beyond that, we all have different things that we appreciate and value and like to, you know, receive. Is there anything that you want to add to this discussion? Thank you. Covered pretty much all of it. Do you mind if I put you on this? I will say, though, that this is the first agency that I have worked for that has so many different ways to recognize us as far as the bonus and, you know, gifts or gift cards or just saying, you know, hey, you did a good job out there today. Yeah. We had a couple of ladies come in. I think you were one of them for skills and we grabbed them. We grabbed them for a TikTok

and not everybody wants to be in our TikToks. Right. And that's something we have to find out. Are they comfortable in front of the camera? But we happen to need a few extra bodies that day. And so we grabbed a few of these ladies and I happened to, on my side hustle, I sell makeup. And so I grabbed a few makeup items that I had and just gave them to them and said, Hey, thanks so much. It was just a small gesture, letting them know, Hey, we don't just expect you to do these things. We really do appreciate you. Love that. Stephanie, if I can kind of put you on the spot here for a minute, do you mind me asking if there are any specific examples of one or two things that they've done for you that were the most meaningful or some of your favorites?

I liked my first 30 days. Amy, our educator, had called and said, know for your 30 days with the company which I thought was nice and just a conversation seeing how I felt with the company was there anything that they you know needed to work on or things questions that I might have you just talked about throwing us in the TikTok and you came out and handed lip gloss to me and I did it because I wanted to be in it. I wasn't doing it to receive something. So that, you know, was another nice gesture. Yeah. I know we have things planned, like, you know, for Valentine's day, we're going to line this place with buckets of flowers and they're going to be able to make

their own bouquets and take them home. You know, things that just build team unity, let them know they're appreciated, an opportunity for them to have a gift. It kind of hits all the things, but it's an investment. You have to invest in your people. Otherwise, homesteads right down the road, and they might not pay as much as I do, but they might offer the perks and benefits. And I would hate to lose somebody that doesn't feel appreciated, valued and have the opportunity to grow. Love that. Thanks for that. Let's talk about communication a little bit. So you've mentioned the fact that you make a point to communicate for the sake of maintaining relationships, not just to like send them their schedule or whatever. Are there any more specifics you can share around that or ways that you make sure that you are continually

building relationships with caregivers through your communication? So that's our team developer. And under our team developer is our field supervisor, Amy. So she's the one making those, after that first shift, 30, 60, 90 day calls. There's so much more in between those 30, 60, 90. I hear her on the phone with caregivers, care pros every single day. Hey, how's this going? What do you need from me? Do you want me to meet you here? Do they need supplies? Just reiterating every opportunity. There's an open line. We have an on-call phone that's available 24 seven. We have obviously, you know, they can stop in at any time. The monthly video letter has been a real success. You know, just the communication, you know, just today I made a video and I'm going to have the team send it out to our

hair pros just to let them know about something that we have going on. And it's not just that text that, you know, we get 50 texts a day now from solicitations, but if they see a face and with all, I mean, as, as humbly as I can, when they see the owner's face, sometimes it's like, oh, this must be like something I really need to listen to. Or when I know their name, when I speak directly to them, that gives them a sense of value and belonging. So. As a side question here, we, we have someone in the chat who's asking, I think just kind of for perspective and context on this, approximately how many caregivers work in your agency? Is that something that you can share? Sure. We have a right around

50. Gotcha. Okay. Thanks for that. So as far as communication goes, you talked about kind of that very intentional cadence that's happening through the 30, 60, 90 days. Aside from like the logistical communications that have to happen around scheduling after that day 90, is there any sort of kind of continuation of the formal communication cadence? And if so, what's that look like? Well, every month our clients are given a supervisory visit. So that then is the opportunity on an ongoing monthly basis for them to have the communication with the supervisor. So not only, you know, are they intentionally given that, hey, how are things going for you personally at 30, 60, 90, but each month they're able to kind of verbalize how they are with their particular case. They're on the phone with the scheduler consistently.

So at the very minimum, they should be touching base with somebody from the office every month, verbally and in person. Love it. You've talked a lot about using video in how you communicate with caregivers, both in the email newsletter, and then also, like you said, just when you have updates to send out, what made you decide to start doing that and take the time to do that? Well, in full transparency, I wasn't impressed with the options that I was given. And so I decided I'm going to let them see myself and their team so that they can see this isn't just stock images being thrown at them. So our first attempt really at, I guess you would say, a formal video was doing our orientation video. And in an effort, like I said, last week to be able to save time from people being in there consistently, we have about a 45 minute video

that introduces each of our internal staff and walks them through a day in the life of a care pro. Then we started realizing video really is the key to marketing, I feel like. And I tell my communications director this as well as our intern that when you're scrolling, you're so much more apt to stop on a video than you are a post. And I think it's that way just in general right now. People are tired of reading. They want to just be fed quick and not lazy, but it's just so much easier to listen to a three second video of, Hey, this is what's going on. This is where you need to be. And this is why. So I think a couple of weeks ago, and it was a gorgeous day out here. I just took a walk around the building and gave a quick three step why you should be walking your clients outside the benefits of fresh air and sunshine for dementia and sent it out to them.

So I feel like they are much more receptive to watching a video than they are reading a text or a lengthy newsletter or a PDF. So that's where and why that started. And it's just been successful. We get great feedback on it. And so we're really trying to just incorporate video into our daily operations. updates as needed, both on things that are happening, but also little tips and things. I think that's kind of cool. Speaking of video. So I've kind of mentioned this, but I want to ask some questions about your TikTok for the benefit of listeners who haven't listened to the first episode with you two yet. I'll just give some background here. So they have a TikTok account for the agency. We can share the handle in the show notes. I don't have it off the top of my head. If either of you do, you can drop it in the chat or something. So I probably spent like 45 minutes before this call, just like watching your TikToks. I think it's pretty

interesting because I haven't seen a ton of agencies try TikTok and I've seen far fewer be successful with TikTok. And so one of the things you mentioned that I think was really good is the way that you use it to extend your local reach, because I think that's't hear the first episode, what they do is they share their videos on TikTok. Then they download them and share them to Instagram and Facebook, which are much easier to target geographically. And just kind of naturally, the algorithms on those platforms serve content more in your locality. And so then people would see the videos on Instagram and Facebook. Since it started as a produced TikTok video, it shows their TikTok handle. And so then people, when they return, they go to TikTok and watch more of their videos. So it's like, since TikTok just kind of blasts

your videos out to everyone, it can be hard to make sure that they're reaching people in your city. But this way they use the platforms that are more geographic to get people to find it. And then they continue to re-engage people after that, because they've then introduced it to them through these other platforms. So that being said, what made you decide to start a TikTok account? And what results have you seen from it? So I had a prior office manager who was considerably younger and she kept saying, Kristen, TikTok's going to be where it's at. This was in 2019, I believe. And at the time, all I knew TikTok to be was what my teenage daughter was

consistently doing and driving me crazy with. So I gave the office manager full reign. I said, if you think it's going to work, you set yourself up, do a few of them. And we found that we were getting a lot of community engagement. They were liking it. They were, we would introduce our dog. We would introduce, you know, different people, different contests that we were having. And so once I started seeing it take some traction or people, they would see me in the grocery store and be like, oh my gosh, I saw you on a TikTok. I thought, okay, well, we're onto something here.

So for that, I can appreciate the marketing perspective of it. For another reason is just that I feel like it makes us relatable. I don't always show up in the TikToks, but when I do, I try not to be that rigid, direct, professional, unattainable person that people may perceive me to be. I can be silly just like the rest of them. And we have fun here. So it's a huge marketing opportunity for recruitment because people are always saying, I want to work at your office. I want to work with you guys. You have a lot of fun. We do have a lot of fun. And we have a great work-life balance. And it's just, it's a way to really hit on so many levels of marketing

for us from clients to referral partners, to, like I said, employees. TikTok is hard to get right, but I think that there are several things that you've done a really good job of on there. I like first that you have made, like you've tried several different types of videos on there. It's not so like, yes, TikTok is kind of like most famous for dance videos and you guys have fun. You have like some dance videos on there, you know, to kind of show how fun the office is. But it's less about that and more about like you have videos that are like showing day in the life. You have videos that are giving tips.

You have videos about community things. And I think it shows, first of all, that if you're trying to use this platform to advance your marketing recruitment, whatever, It's a lot more than just the silly videos that we sometimes associate with tech doc. And like you kind of referenced, I like that you are able to walk the line between you're using it to show that you are relatable and human and fun, but then also it still is a level of quality or, you know, maybe there's a better word than professionalism, but professionalism that speaks well to your brand and your agency.

And so I think you guys have done a pretty good job of that. So thank you. I appreciate that. It's hard to find that balance. And Caitlin and I often talk about, OK, we want one education for every three fun and finding, you know, what it it is because people, they want to be entertained, but a lot of times the audiences that we need to cater to are the ones that need to be educated. So once we find that sweet spot, that balance, I think we're going to, the sky's the limit with us for TikTok. Love it. It's fun to see you guys kind of helping blaze the trail there. We have a couple of questions that I want to get to.

So we have somebody asking if they can refer back to this in the future. Yes. So just a quick reminder, you can get this as podcast episodes called Home Care U. U is in university, wherever you get your podcasts. They usually will be posted like the Monday or Tuesday after we record the episode. And then someone else is asking, what percentage of revenue is set aside for your caregiver engagement and retention programs? That's an excellent question. I do not have that exact number. And it's funny that you asked that because I just said to my operations manager yesterday, I need a very good handle or my accountant rather needs a very good

handle on a retention. Retention to me involves everything from education and services, bonusly, it's a lot. And so I'm going to say it's up there with my advertising budget. And that may not be the best model, but right now it's working for us. So one thing I've learned as a nurse who's taught myself some business operations is that sometimes I have to do what I see works and not just what the textbooks teach. And so I'd love, yeah, thank you. I'd love to have, you know, a specific metric for you, but I can tell you, like I said, it's relative to my advertising budget. That makes sense. Follow-up question here to frame this a little bit. So there's always this

debate in marketing, and I would add recruitment marketing, of how to decide where to put your dollars and how to judge its performance and so because there's always this pressure to make sure what you're doing is working it sometimes leads us to be kind of more biased in favor of things that are like really easy to track how many leads you get from it or something how do you decide how much effort and resources to put into platforms or efforts that might be harder to judge the like exact ROI from? So I guess like more kind of brand focused things than just like strictly lead generation things. How do you decide how much you should put into those? Well, a huge resource for me has been the home care operators community that really in my speaking with and engaging with other operators who are like minded, we bounce ideas off of each other, what's working for them.

And so it might be an out of the box idea that I hadn't thought about that I'm willing to test and put some money into. That would be probably the number one resource in my finding, you know, that out of the box number. It's relations. And a lot of times you can't track so many referrals with relations. I try to, we try to, you know, insert all of our leads and all of our inquiries and get a good handle on who our feeders are. But oftentimes it's just the ones that are talking about you in the community

to me that are just as important as my referral bases. The ones that say, oh, you should get a hold of Kristen at Intram. She knows about this, or you should get a hold of Todd at Intram or Caitlin. As long as they're marketing for me, I don't necessarily need all the referrals right now. When you're building a brand, you just want to be kind of the expert authority and known for, and then the referrals will come in. That makes sense. Yeah. As a marketer, I've spent a good portion of my career both trying to answer this question for myself, but also helping people understand how sometimes it's the things that might feel frivolous or silly or like they're not driving a return that can be the most valuable if you look at it from a perspective of what is helping you stay top of mind with the people that are most important to stay top of mind with. And it sounds like you've really zeroed in on that mindset in a lot of how you're advertising.

So just in our last few minutes here, I kind of have another thing I want to ask about from like the very beginning of our first episode with you guys. You mentioned that the room you're sitting in right now is like the basement of your agency, basically like the first floor of it, that you are turning into a community hub for family caregivers. Can we spend a few minutes talking about that? Sure. I'm super proud of it. It's almost done. We have more furniture being delivered, but it's got that warm and cozy atmosphere of different conversation areas where people can feel comfortable. They can come in. We have a separate room here where we're going to be set up with one of our care pros will be in there and taking care of their loved ones. They can come out here and either we will be doing presentations,

our positive approach to care presentations, dementia education, or just support groups where they're able to come and bounce some of their issues and woes off of one another. We'll serve coffee. It'll be a warm and cozy inviting light music in the background and just a place they can breathe, feel that they're surrounded by other people who understand their pain points. And then their loved ones are overseen and engaged with as well. So it's about, I think we're about 1600 square foot here. It's got, like I said, little pockets of conversation areas and it's got the ability to just be that community cozy cafe, but a learning environment as well. I love that. I suspect that there are probably both, as you could say, business benefits to this, but also just human benefits of what it's

accomplishing. Do you mind speaking to both of those? So as a business benefit, obviously it's giving us awareness, right? And it gives us the opportunity to, you know, to reach and be a marketer for maybe B&Is. We hold some B&Is here as a personal and a human effect, which in all honesty is, you know, the majority of why I choose. And I know my staff choose to do what we do is to make those family caregivers feel like, okay, this isn't just an agency that I'm writing a check to. This is somebody that really cares about my wellbeing as a caregiver, making sure I don't have caregiver burnout, making sure that my loved one is overseen and engaged with cognitively while I'm here. And it's not going to be exclusive to just our clients' families. We want this to be an opportunity for all caregivers of dementia patients

that maybe can't afford our services, but still need to be able to be educated on the best care possible for their loved one. So that will be also an opportunity for them to come, to learn, to feel connection and to just feel that engagement and that value of, listen, we understand you're not alone.

I love this and I wish every agency would do this. I think it's super smart and super cool because yes, like on one hand, it is a good business move because it helps you to have this access to people who have a definite need for caregivers and maybe they can't use you to fill that at this moment, but it makes you be the future go-to agency if that time does come. But more than that, I think it's such a good venue and such a good method for the people who are professionals at

caregiving to do everything you can to pass on the support and the things you've learned to those who are in a position where they are caregivers, but might've been thrust into it, probably need lots of support, probably have a lot to learn. And it's a way to do that. So I, I think this is awesome. Thank you. Yeah. And again, I have to, I have to throw, you know, some love to home care operators because they have encouraged me to, people want to know, some love to home care operators because they have encouraged me to people want to know, like, and trust you. And it's not always just about making that sale. And a lot of times this here will be a venue for them to know, like, and trust us. If they can afford our services, that's awesome. If they can't afford our services, their loved ones are still going to be

better off because of the education that they've received. So we're super excited about it. For those listening who might not be familiar with what Kristen is referring to when she refers to home care operators, that is specifically both the Facebook group, Home Care Operators Community. And then I think you were probably also part of, yeah, do you mind telling us just kind of briefly about like what the deeper community is there that you're a part of, yeah, do you mind telling us just kind of briefly about like what, what the deeper community is there that you're a part of? Yes. So Action Leaders, it's Action Leaders Experience, A-L-E. And so it's a group of us that meet, well, we have access to one another, but we also are meeting on a weekly basis. We have the opportunity to learn implementation, marketing strategies,

operation strategies. Clint and Jessica Nobles are the founders and directors of that. And, you know, they really are the reason that I'm still here, to be honest with you, because I wanted to sell my agency right at COVID. I questioned my moves. And when they, when I found them, I kind of found the gem of what they connected with my reasoning of what it was I wanted to do, my purpose, my mission. So I spent the money that was probably the best money I ever spent and invested in the master operators where I met with them on a one-on-one basis. So there's, there's the tiers, the home care operators, the action leaders experience, and what they did offer. I don't know that they still do is the master operators. The master operators gave me one-on-one access to

them. They came here to our agency and did an internal audit, if you will, of each position, what was working, what wasn't working, gave me the confidence in my team and said, look, you have a solid, solid team. Here's next steps for you. So if you are looking for someone or a group that you can identify with and have a wealth of resources, education, and training, I would highly recommend as an owner seeking them out. Clint and Jessica are how I got connected to Kristen. I reached out to them. They're kind of friends of ours and asked who would be a good fit for the topic we wanted to do. And they recommended Kristen. So if you are interested in this, I think you can go to

homecareops.com. And like Kristen said, I'm not sure I like what all the offerings are. They've kind of evolved, but you can see what's available there and learn more there. In our last couple of minutes here, is there anything that I should have asked either of you that I haven't? And just, are there any other final words of wisdom you want to leave us with? You know, just in the whole topic of retention, we all know as owners, operators, it's so much more affordable to retain than it is to recruit and constantly recruit. We know that the loss of dollars and trying to chase new employees. And so I think if we really just try to focus in on the basics, not reinvent the wheel, focus in on the human basics, what do they appreciate? What do they want? What do they

value? And how can we meet those basic human needs and plug those in as core values of our agency? It's the sweet spot. It really is. Sometimes we think that we have to have these huge models of retention when really it's just about human connection and communication and appreciation. So that would be, if anything, if any of the owners on here are looking for a takeaway, mine would be just to simplify things, get back to the basics and invest in your people. Thanks for that. Stephanie? I think you said everything.

You just, this company is different from any other company that I've been with. Like I said, again, from day one, walking in here, smiling faces, always supportive. There's always that open door of communication with everybody making you feel appreciated and heard not other companies do that you know they just see you as you're a caregiver here's your stuff there you go it's more with that here you know it's a fine line because you don't want to be taken advantage of right so we have we have some pretty rigid boundaries, but we are also very in tune to being subjective with each situation. And if there's a history of something, obviously they're not a right fit for us. But if they go outside of the boundaries on a situation that's not typically like them,

take the time to listen, take the time to find out, you know, what can we do as your employer, as your source of confidence and empowerment to be able to move you through this? Because really, you're still investing in your company when you're investing into your employees. I love how you said confidence and empowerment. I think those are both really good things to make sure that you are focusing on having your caregivers feel. So we'll go ahead and end on that note. Thanks again for joining. Thanks for sharing your information and experiences so freely. Thanks to everyone who joined live and asked questions. Just as a quick reminder, you can get all of the replays as Home Care U wherever you get your podcasts. If you're discovering this through the podcast,

you can join live and ask your questions by going to careswitch.com slash HomeCareU, that's you as in university, and registering for the free class that we do every Wednesday afternoon. So thanks again and have a great rest of your day, everyone. You too. Bye. Thanks, Connor. That's a wrap. This podcast was made by the team at CareSwitch, the first AI-powered management software for home care agencies. If you want to automate away the menial of your day-to-day with AI so that you and your team can focus on giving great care, check us out at careswitch.com.