HomeTech.fm - Episode 320 - Making Dumb Appliances Smart with David Bambrick of Connected Life Labs

Episode Date: September 25, 2020

The Home Tech Podcast is supported by you. To find out more, go to hometech.fm support. This is the Home Tech Podcast for Friday, September 25th from Denver, Colorado. I'm Jason Griffin. And from Sarasota, Florida, I'm Seth Johnson. Jason, what's going on? I'm living the dream, man. We've got fall is in the air here in Colorado. It's my favorite time of year. So loving the cooler temperatures. Got out to do some fly fishing last weekend. I saw that. So that was great.

And yeah, it's a beautiful time of year. How about yourself? It's not. I mean, it was nice this morning, I guess. It was kind of dry. And I think like 79 when I woke up or seven something. It was 75, something like that. That's cool enough for Florida where you can actually open up your windows in the morning

and let a little bit of air in and then promptly shut them around 9 o'clock when it starts to cook. Indeed. We'll welcome the fall weather anytime. Bring it down. Bring it down. Don't hold your breath, man. You're down in Florida.

So not sure when or if that'll happen for you, but let's jump in. We've got a great show this week. We had David Bambrick on from Connected Life Labs, and that's the company name. They've got a product out right now called SmartDry with plans to expand into other products, but we really focus primarily on their product that they have out now, which is a cool device. They sent me one of these, Seth. So I've got one in my home and it's a little device that goes magnetically attaches inside of your dryer and it makes your dumb dryer smart. So their whole mission is about making dumb appliances smart. This is a cool little device that gives you alerts when your clothes are dry. I've found that it seems to be far more accurate

than the built-in sensor inside of our washer. So that's nice if you're looking to not shrink your clothes, save some energy. Other benefits as well that we get into in the interview, and David and his team really come from a deep engineering background. So it was a lot of fun to talk about some of the unique challenges of designing a device that goes inside of a dryer. Clearly not an environment designed for electronics,

Seth. Not at all. I mean, I guess I have been in some equipment racks that reminded me of life inside of a dryer, but aside from the wet portion of that, it was definitely some hot areas that I've worked in my life. Yeah, for sure. Anyways, that was a fun interview, so be sure to stay tuned for that. But Seth, what do you say we jump into some home tech headlines? Let's do it. Well, Jason, you'll have to wait a bit longer for Integrated Systems Europe to make its Barcelona, Spain debut. ISE 2021, slated for February 2 through 5 in Barcelona, Spain to view. ISE 2021 slated for February 2 through 5 in Barcelona has been postponed to June amidst the second wave of coronavirus pandemic sweeping across Europe.

The June event will also have a corresponding virtual event, says ISE in an official statement this week. So kind of one of those things I think we're going to see a little bit more of or more of as things go along until this whole pandemic thing goes away. Um, we're, we're going to have these virtual events pop up some more. And I, I, I think we're going to, we're going to see a lot more, uh, a lot more interesting things come out of them.

Some of them are going to be, I, I, I listened to our, you know, I had to listen to our conversation a few times from last week for, for our CDA conversation, uh, down to edit it. And then I always listened back to make sure that, you know, everything, um, is good when it's, you know, been published and whatnot. And, you know, uh, a big part of the discussion that we talked about was the interactivity. And that's, that's really an interesting thing that came out of the conversations that we were all having. I wonder how, or if these types of events or, you know, ISE, and I think we'll talk about a little bit about Lutron and some CD events that are coming up, like how much they're going to focus on that interactivity rather than just like, well, here's a webpage to visit, check it out.

Right. Right. Yeah. It says the plans for the digital component of the event are still in the works here, according to CE Pro. So no, no here. This is clearly, in my mind, at least the right move. And hard to believe that we're coming up on that time again. I remember ISE this year, 2020. It feels like it was yesterday. And we were, if you remember, right sort of on the cusp. COVID was definitely breaking out in other parts of the world, but in a lot of areas like Europe and here in the States, it still didn't really feel like something that was going to affect us. And now here we of their in-person Cedia Tech Summit scheduled in the US, the UK and Canada in 2020. This decision is a result of careful consideration surrounding evolving regulations and safety protocols related to the global COVID-19 pandemic. So the association is encouraging attendees to keep an eye on things through cedia.net, but it does look like all of these tech summits will be canceled for the year 2020.

They are, it looks like, have three dates penciled in for 2021 already in the UK. So they've got two, looks like these are in May and June of 2021, again, over in the UK. So crazy to be talking about that far out, but that's our reality now. You just kind of have to throw something down the road and kick the can down the road and see. When you get there, you'll get there and deal with it. But yeah, same thing with Lutron. They announced the September 25th launch of lutron connected 2020 it's a six-week series of virtual events that the company states will give dealers the knowledge tools and lutron vision

needed to end 2020 strong and appropriately planned for 2021 so they're they're going in on the virtual events and they're going to be kind of showing off their products uh online there which which should be interesting to see how they do. There's a huge schedule on this. It starts the 25th of September, goes all the way through the month of October and into November. So we'll be curious to see how they do this. Yeah. Yeah. They've got quite a lineup here that they're talking about. They've got the events say that they will include product launches, live trainings, webinars, podcasts, panel discussions, virtual tours of the Ketra Collaboration Studio and the New York Global Experience Center giveaways and more. So Lutron

making a big swing here with their virtual event. I think we've heard murmurings of SnapAV has something coming up. I don't have the details of that handy, but it's interesting to think about the trend seems to be, at least amongst these bigger companies right now, Crestron did their own thing. Will you see more of that? Will you see more of the Lutron, SnapAVs, Crestrons, bigger companies doing their own events versus really pitching in and and taking big swings at events like a virtual cdia right what will this be kind of an emerging trend number one and number two will that continue once all of this is is back to normal will this sort of thing ever go away or will this become kind of a new norm yeah no i mean i don mean, I don't, I don't mind the, um, the virtual events. I don't

mind the, uh, you know, kind of not so much the virtual events, but like being able to like log on and do stuff on my own pace. I've been able to, um, there's a couple of like conferences that are just like that right now, like, like tech type conferences where you can just kind of log on, take care of like some of the sessions and watch some of the videos yourself and do things at your own pace throughout the week. Um, and they're, they're just kind of like open, you know, like just come in. It's not scheduled around a date or a month. It's just like it's there. If you pay or you sign up for this, you can come in and do it. And I kind of like that. It's kind of like just like e-learning like lynda.com or one of those like courses, classes that you can get. Right. Kind of like

that idea. Yeah. Just self-paced. Put it out there. Let people come take part of it and get the information they need and go from there. Yeah. Absolutely. Shifting gears here a little bit.

This week, Wyze announced two new smart home products, the Wyze Video Doorbell and Wyze Thermostat. The Video Doorbell costs, Seth, get this, $30 and is available for pre-order today. The company hasn't provided pricing for the thermostat yet. It would probably be around the same, I would think, $20, $30, I'm sure. It'll be $5.

Yeah. They'll pay you. They'll pay you to put it in. But expect something similarly affordable. The Wyze thermostat will be available for pre-order starting on October 6th. Seth, so funny story. When I was doing show prep tonight, I was clicking through a bunch of pages, getting things ready. And I clicked through the Wyze page really quickly.

And just my mind sort of saw the number and moved very quickly to the next thing. And I was like, oh, okay. So, so $300 doorbell. Cause it saw 22, nine, nine, nine. And I thought two 99. Yeah. And then I did sort of a double take. I was like 29 99. It's crazy. I can't figure it out. I really, I don't know how wise plans to make this work, but they just, they keep coming out with products and they're cheaper than dirt. I thought you were going for the how wise pun, but okay. We'll just yeah. Um, one thing that is really cool about this, uh, this camera, uh, the camera that's in, in this wise doorbell. I mean, it seems like white doors, bell video doorbells are out there but this has like instead of a um like a vertical like four by three video it's three by four so it's like up and down tiktok video style right so like when you pick up your phone and you look at it it's not like where the ring app you'd

have to rotate your phone to get full screen right it's already just full screen up and down which interesting makes perfect sense for the use case of being at the door because they can then pick up what is on the floor like if somebody dropped off a package um they can pick that up they can pick the person's face up that's walking up to your door and you don't get like all that extra like at my house it's like there's a wall on one side so half of my ring video is just like completely useless to me and the other half is bushes that people would never walk in anyway. So this is, that's a great idea. 1080p,

but I noticed if you dig in the specs, they are promising, well, never buy something on a promise, but they're promising a future 2k upgrade with an OTA, you know, upgrade update. So eventually they will get their server infrastructure in place or whatever it takes

and push out that update to get 2K video out of this thing. So for $30, it comes with a chime too. Like this seems like a heck of a deal. It sure does. And I got to say, you know, I last fall when I was having my mouse saga in the house, a few listeners to the show may recall that. I went and bought a bunch of these because I needed to set up a very sophisticated mouse surveillance operation in my home. And for the price, you can't go wrong. I mean, they're insanely good for, I think they were $20 a piece. And I'm still shocked every time I plug them in and use them. I don't always have them set up because we're not big on indoor cameras here,

but like when we travel and stuff, I pull them out and plug them in. They work great. So I don't know. It's just crazy. I'm still scratching my head over Wyze. Yeah, and they have, as a company, they kind of put them,

like they have put out a bunch of like different types of products in the past. Like I think they even have a scale. Like it's not a very like focused company. They have the doorbells. They have the smart home stuff. They have a scale like where you can weigh yourself on in a fitness band. The scale is $20.

The fitness band is $25. And then they have surge protectors, more other stuff. They have face masks that you can buy, a no-touch digital forehead thermometer. So kind of getting in there for the COVID-19 supplies. Just throw spaghetti strategy. Yeah, yeah.

Throw it at the wall, see if it sticks. It seems like if they can get their hands on it, they're going to try and sell it. I do know, in their defense, I do know how the face masks and thermometer sales come into play as some limited importer of electronic goods. You've established relationships in China with manufacturers who themselves have relationships with other manufacturers. And in some cases we have been even approached to buy, you know, bulk supplies of face masks and stuff early on in the pandemic.

So I can easily see how that happened. And it's like an opportunity, you know, comes up and buy some face masks. And what we did was we bought some face masks and we throw them in our, in the boxes now, you know, when people buy products. So there you go. Yeah. Nice little, little bonus. Nice little goody yeah yeah exactly well some bad news jason um quibi the mobile subscription tv startup founded by jeffrey katzenberg i got some bad news uh wall street journalist reporting that they are looking for a buyer believe it or not wow

uh launched in april 2020 quibi has raised about 1.75 billion dollars from major studios and other investors and has banked dozens uh of original of its original series from hollywood a listers uh the the the major question is who exactly would be interested in acquiring a struggling Quibi Avenger, uh, given its untested business model and weak, extremely weak subscriber traction due, uh, due to, I don't, I don't know. Like it's such a weird platform. Like I did notice they got a couple of Emmys, but it's still just like a, just a weird play at this whole thing was strange. It is. It's been a really interesting story to watch and there's big money and big names behind this, right? This is not some, you know, B-list

roster of, of people trying to, trying to make a go at it. You've got investors, including Disney, NBC universal, Sony pictures, Viacom, AT&T, Lionsgate, MGM, and more. You've got Katzenberg, who is a movie mogul, headed DreamWorks before selling it to Comcast. So really big names here, and it's just surprising to see. The story does mention that Quibi obviously faces competition from companies like Netflix and Disney, but Quibi executives insist that they're quote, catering to a different market segment, a theoretical audience of millennial smartphone users who want quick bite on the go entertainment. But this was one of the big knocks on Quibi. I think they over-anchored on that idea of mobile. When they first came out, they didn't even have

a way to watch it on a big screen. Even if you wanted to cast it out to another device to put it up on your screen, they didn't have that at first. They do now. But they've struggled to carve out a niche, and they tried to do something novel and interesting with this approach, but it appears to simply not be working. I will give them a credit for doing something novel and interesting. It definitely was. I mean, the technology even behind it, like the app when you were watching, kind of the same thing we were talking about the Ys, like the 4x3 aspect. You would get the 3x4 aspect of the show, and they were filmed and directed that way.

But if you turned it to widescreen, you'd get the widescreen format of the show that way as well. So it's kind of an interesting way of doing it i don't know like looking at kids uh using tiktok and instagram and saying that's that's probably where we should where we should be and make a a almost a two billion dollar service around it like i don't know i i think that the price of this thing was expensive too. From what I remember, it's like $7, $5 to $7, somewhere in there. And I mean, I don't know. I gave it a go. They still email me a lot.

I will say their email servers work, but there was nothing like for me, very compelling to like hang around and watch. Yeah. Well, speaking of streaming and our final headline this week, Peacock will finally be taking flight on Roku devices after months of wrangling and NBC Universal's TV apps will not be going dark on Roku after all. Roku and NBC Universal reached a deal last week that will provide access to the Peacock app on the streaming platform and Roku-enabled TVs.

In addition, the companies renewed their agreement to keep 46 NBC universal broadcast and cable apps on Roku after the media company had threatened to pull them this weekend over the Peacock dispute. So burying of hatchets happening here. So to speak. It's so wild to see like, you know, usually you get this on like DirecTV, right? You're watching DirecTV and it's like, don't let DirecTV cancel Fox Sports, you know? Call your station and make sure that, you know, the station doesn't go away next weekend or whatever for the big game. And it's like now you're seeing it with streaming services on streaming devices. It's like, yeah, we have, we have ended one, one phase of the business cycle and entered the same thing. You know, it's exactly the same. All the, everything is the same. This has all happened

before. It will all happen again. What's old is new again. Exactly. All right. Well, that'll, that'll do it for our headlines this week. All of the news and topics that we've discussed on our show and that are yet to be discussed on this show will be in our show notes at hometech.fm slash three to zero. While you're there, don't forget to sign up for our weekly newsletter. We'll send you show reminders and other occasional updates about all the great stuff going on here in the world of home tech. Once again, that link is hometech.fm slash 320.

And don't forget, you can join us in the chat room live Wednesday, starting sometime between 7 and 7.30 p.m. Eastern, sometimes 8 o'clock. You can find out more at hometech.fm slash live. All right, Seth. Well, without further ado, let's go ahead and jump into our interview with David Bambrick of Connected Life Labs. Hey, David, welcome to the show. How are you? Hey, how you doing? Thanks for having me on here. Yeah, doing great. It's our pleasure. We're looking forward to jumping in.

We always like to start with a personal question. Just take a moment to introduce yourself to the audience and share a little bit of your background. Yeah, sure. So my name is David Bambrick. I'm from a company called Connected Life Labs. And what we're kind of doing is focusing on making dumb appliances smart. We didn't kind of come into this the regular way. Our background, as far as myself and the co-founders, are from the photonics industry, which is designing lasers and laser systems. And what we did there was really designing systems for scientific medical and forensic research so we had done our theme there was really we started that company to look at new emerging technologies in that

field so that we could kind of bring our touch and new innovative products to places that could be really taken to the next level so So we made super compact laser systems for forensics, for example, and we became the world leader in forensic lasers where we make them for all the large research firms and places like DHS and Army and that kind of thing. So while we're doing that, we always kept an eye on emerging technologies.

And that's kind of what brought us into the phase of smart you know, smart home technologies and wireless sensors and stuff. So that's kind of where the team came from and where we are now and led us into kind of what we're getting into here with SmartDry. That's great. Let's dig into that a little bit more. Talk about the, what is SmartDry and share a little bit of how you transitioned from working on lasers to now working on making dumb appliances smart. So basically while we were actually building the laser systems, we were also building, trying to build wireless sensors and finding that there was all these great little

chips coming out, PSoCs that had all the Wi-Fi stack and Bluetooth stack all built in and all this great capability that was becoming super affordable. And we wanted to see if we could use that in our laser systems or some of those designs. And instead, we started building wireless sensors that were monitoring our systems while we built them and doing robust testing and stuff. And then we built a back end kind of cloud and some app and desktop applications that were all kind of coming together in this platform that we're building internally. That was allowing us to kind of come up with new ideas for products and again we're this whole idea we were looking at these new technologies and like oh well maybe there's something else we can do with these and I just happen to be home and I have this old dryer that was cooking my clothes and shrinking every t-shirt I owned so I was like maybe we could take one of these sensors and just stick it in a

dryer and see what happens and you know start doing something better with my old dryer. And then I realized there's actually about 80 plus million of these in the United States alone. I was like, I can't be alone. There's got to be something else we can do with this. So then we started to focus on this, kicking it around for a while. And maybe naively, we didn't realize some of the challenges that would come with sticking a wireless sensor inside a big metal box that's going to fill itself up with water vapor.

But, you know, that all kind of then evolved into what is now smart drying. And that's really, you know, a wireless sensor that just snaps into any electric or gas dryer and instantly makes it a smart appliance. And what it can do then is give you all the rich features of a new smart appliance, even if it's 10 years old. And what we started to find, you know, after we got the patent and everything on our sensor is that our sensor is actually more accurate and our algorithms in the cloud end of it at calculating when your clothes are actually dry in your dryer and give you the alerts to stop sooner. And on average, the American household does about seven loads a week, and this can save you about 15 minutes a load. So that's about two hours, almost two hours of runtime a week that it's not wearing out your

clothes, it's not wearing out your dryer, and it's clawing back all that energy for you that would have just been running aimlessly. So that's kind of what SmartDry is and what it can do. And then, you know, as we're evolving the product and adding it to more smart speakers and smart things and stuff like that, you start to integrate it into your home and you get all the other nice benefits of, you know, being able to turn off the smart plug automatically

so that your dryer can shut off and, you know, kind of thoughtlessly save you that energy. So, yeah. That's great. And we'll get, we'll get more into the architecture of the product and we'll talk a little bit more about the app, but I'd love to first drill down and nerd out a little bit on some of the challenges that you talked about. First of all, uh, you guys were kind enough to send me one of these. I have installed it and I,

I agree. I've, I've been sort of interested to compare when I get the notifications on my phone that says your clothes are dry versus, you know, we do have a new-ish dryer. It's not one that has an app that sends us notifications on its own, but it does have a sensor in it that's supposed to stop when the clothes are dry. And I have noticed that the sensor on your guys' device

does appear to be a better indication of when those clothes are dry. And I have noticed that the sensor on your guys' device does appear to be a better indication of when those clothes are dry. So talk a little bit about building that sensor and broadly speaking, what some of those big challenges were in terms of, like you said, designing this device to go inside of an environment that's clearly not conducive to electronics for a whole bunch of reasons. Yeah. Like you said, a whole bunch of reasons. And probably if I had known all the things that were going to come down to pipes, I might've thought twice about it, but, uh, yeah, so you've got lots of things, so you've got the

big metal box, right? So that's the first issue. Uh, you've got, as you dry your clothes, you've got all that water vapor coming out. So that's going to stop your RF signal getting out as well. Uh, then it's all going to get really hot and it's going to get really dry. So that's going to stop your RF signal getting out as well. Then it's all going to get really hot and it's going to get really dry. So that's going to create a lot of static. And then it's got to live off of a little CR2032 battery for as long as possible. So we can't be, you know, just saying it lasts for a week. It's got to last, you know, six to 12 months

minimum, or people just aren't going to use it either. So all of those are kind of the main challenges and each one, you know, so if you've seen the device so it comes obviously with the sensor and a small little gateway, those two things one of the challenges we're not going to get away from is that you're not going to get hundreds of feet of range from the sensor being in that metal box and the water vapor issues. So the sensor and the hub usually stay within 10 to 15 feet of each other.

And obviously the dryer is plugged in, there's going to be an outlet close to the dryer. So that's not going to be all that big of an issue, but we did have to make sure we selected proper antenna design and things like that on the sensor and the hub to make sure we're maximizing that transmission and receiving. And then as far as like the static and stuff, we actually had to go through and look at, you know, proprietary and special coatings on the board itself inside the dryer so that we protect it. We don't want it to get zapped when everything gets really hot and static is flying all over the place because we've all pulled our clothes out and gotten that nice zap. Well, we didn't want to do that to the sensor and kill it prematurely. So we have

specialty coatings that are on the sensor itself then too. And then battery life, the algorithms into when we make this thing, you know, how much data we actually need to make intelligent decisions. And, you know, when we actually put the sensor to sleep and help, you know, how we wake it back up and all those kinds of things. So those are a lot of, you know, trials and testing and looking at the data and then how much data we actually do need to make intelligent decisions on the cloud end about what's happening. And like you said yourself, you've seen where we're making better decisions with the least amount of data. So keeping the battery alive and for as long as possible, and then being able to make those intelligent decisions on the back end, you know, it all kind of came to, I think, a positive end. So yeah, there was quite a few challenges,

but that was part of kind of how engineering geeking out, like all of those things are kind of fun to solve, right? Like they were all independently like, oh, this could be a big mess and maybe it would just never work. Like, will we ever get this to work? But in the end, they proved to be challenging, but we came up with some, I think,

innovative designs that fixed all of it. I'm over here laughing because I'm like, oh, yeah, you're putting this inside the dryer, first of all. I'm like, okay, well, this is tumbling around inside the dryer with all these wet clothes and possibly some kid's shoes or something that get thrown in there. And then you keep going. You're like, oh, yeah, it's inside the dryer.

It's literally in there, inside this metal Faraday cage that keeps Wi-Fi and all radio signals out and i'm like oh this is getting challenging and then you're like static electricity also oh man it's a whole other issue altogether so yeah just just pile literally every problem that you could think of with electronics and stick it in one one place and there you have it lasers were lasers might have been easier would have been next time yeah lasers to make it make a dryer out of lasers and then exactly yeah so so and then you actually made a good point there the vibration and the motion instead of the dryer that was another one

so we we wanted to make this super easy uh for example the first version of this was a little ball we thought that oh we had this little ball bouncing around inside it, we'd get the best analysis of the air that's inside a dryer. And that was just knocking it to bits. Like it was just never going to work. It was just falling to pieces. So, you know, we have, it's a really easy snap-in magnetic holder.

And it's just two little magnets in there. And it holds up to 12 pounds of pull on those things each. But it's only about three ounces of a sensor. So it's not going anywhere. Like shoes can hit it, clothes will hit it all day long and it just holds stuff in place. So that was, that was a challenge. I almost forgot to do so many. I forgot one. So there you go. Oh man, it does sound challenging. So yeah, you were kind of heading the direction I was going to ask the next question. It's like, well, okay, I'm going to get one of these. Looks like get them on Amazon for about $50. I get one of those, get into the house. What, okay, I'm going to get one of these. Looks like get them on Amazon for about $50.

I get one of those, get into the house. What does it look like to set this? What's it look like to set this thing up? Yeah. So this is, I'm sure you guys are kind of like the tech help for your family. Like that's kind of the role that I play. So it's like, oh, you know, we'll just call them up and my wifi isn't working or my phone has this issue. So I wanted to make this as easy as possible so that my mom could install it and not have to call me up and be like, oh, it's not working install it. So that was a goal, make it super easy so that anybody can install this and it's not a huge headache.

And we watched, as we were designing it and making that work, we watched, we have metrics around the installation success. And right now we're up at 98.8% success rate of once you download the app and they actually come online. And that was, we watched that through all sorts of different updates too. So if a new iOS update or something comes out,

we wanna make sure that we didn't mess up that success rate. So basically you take this out of the box, it's got a magnetic snap, you download the app. And the first thing it does, we wanted to make sure it was a minimum amount of interface with like having to type in ids or taking pictures of qr codes and that kind of thing so once you pull the battery tab it'll automatically communicate to the app pull in the sensor id and then you just go step by step and the only thing you as the user have to input is

basically the password for your wi-fi to get it online and obviously you know that's the one step we can't get around so as you walk through that installation process we made sure that it has a nice image that shows you where it has to go in the dryer for best performance and where to place the hub and and then getting everything online and then it goes right in once everything is set up and it joins your Wi-Fi it'll confirm those steps and make sure that you get a notification says the sensors online the hub is online the data is actually flowing and just to make sure that you get a notification that says the sensor's online, the hub is online, the data is actually flowing. And just to make sure that you know, you have a peace of mind before you even do one load of laundry, that everything started communicating properly. So we wanted to make sure that that whole process was super easy.

And there are challenges there. You know, you've got an Android environment, iOS environment, and those things are always changing. And we have to, you know, Android lets a lot more things come in automatically than iOS. So we have to keep those know, Android lets a lot more things come in automatically than iOS. So we have to keep those in mind as we're developing the app as well. Apple likes to keep you on your toes as a software developer. Exactly. One quick question. You've mentioned a couple of times a hub and I'm looking online and I see

the smart dry device with the magnets on it, but is there another piece that I'm not seeing? Or when you say hub, do you mean the smart dry device that actually, is that all there is, that lives in the dryer and that's it? No, so there's actually two parts. There's a sensor that's in the dryer and then there's like a hub,

sign of gateway. It's really just a relay. It's taking the data that's coming from the sensor and relaying it back up to the cloud back end. So it's making all the, basically do all the analysis is being done on the cloud side of it. So it's just kind of a relay for that. And that's all it does. It really just relays the data that we're pulling from the dryer.

And you mentioned iOS, Android apps. But what smart home type platforms do you integrate with that platform? So the real goal of this thing is to get it out to as many people as possible so we can save that energy on a large scale. That's really where we see this product succeeding. So the first things we went after really the easy ones, so the smart speaker stuff. So we have Alexa compatible. Right now we have a beta program for SmartThings going and it's been really good.

We've great feedback from a lot of the users that are using it now and that's going to be launched fully in the next month or two with a new app release. And Google Assistant is going to be released with that also. And we're currently working, we're excited about some development. We're doing Alexa routines where right now you have to ask Alexa if you know, flutter the status of my clothes and she'll tell you that they're dry or it's stopped. those things where we've got Habitat and Home Assistant that we've kind of had to put aside a little bit reluctantly where we can't go after everybody. We are a lean, small company, so we have only so much bandwidth. But also the goal here and the strategy is that we want to get as many of these things

out there as possible so that we get the biggest energy conservation grab possible. Again, we started this company with the theme of making double appliances smart, but the goal there is really to conserve resources. And resources are things like our time, which is, you know, we're getting that time back, but then also that energy and CO2 footprint. And, you know, we don't want to get too niche-y, but we don't want to forget them either. We do want to double back on those as we get bigger user platform, you know, expand that all out. That is definitely on our technology roadmap uh just right now we won't try to get as many of these things out there

as possible to make the biggest difference in that way yeah that was going to be one of my well my next question was like you know how about an api for for everybody else but it sounds like you're heading that way and i as a software guy i understand like apis are kind of like the last thing that you get to on your checklist like Like that means like everything is, everything else is done. And then you can go, okay, we can support. So, so yeah, I, I understand. I understand that. And, and, and it's certainly as a, we're really a group of engineers first and we love to be able to take other

people's stuff apart and play with it. And we would love to stay and make that it's that kind of Steve Jobs, Wozniak argument. Like can we just make it so you can just build it and play with it. And we would love to stay and make that. It's that kind of Steve jobs, the Wozniak argument, like can we just make it so you can just build it and customize it yourself. And we really hope to be able to bake more of that into it as we get more of these out there. But that's, you know, we're, we're neglecting it at the moment, but we're definitely going to be getting there. That's all right. That's all right. That's what I'd like to hear.

Yeah. Good stuff. And I did want to comment really quickly on the installation. Seth and listeners to the show know that I am a master procrastinator when it comes to projects around my house. And when I received this in the mail, I committed to myself, I'm not going to wait. I'm just, when I get it, I'm going to open it up and I'm just going to install it and hope that it goes quickly. And I'll say that it did. I got the whole thing from start to finish. I think maybe took me about 10 minutes. Um, and, and we've, we've got it in and working talk a little bit more. I want to drill in to the app a little bit more before we zoom back out and talk about some of the things you're

doing on the energy front and partnerships with providers and things of that nature. But let's give people a little bit more context on the app. And I'm looking at it here in front of me, walk our listeners through the different features that you're presented with and sort of at the ground level, how does this app work? Yeah. So basically how, what we wanted to do was kind of mimic a lot of the features that you're comfortable with on your drive. So for example, you know, and then add some extra. But some of the things are going to be, okay, when your clothes are dry, we're going to alert you. So that's just a very simple feature.

But you can also select how dry. Do you want it less dry, dry, more dry? And that's really language that comes from your dryer. It's an odd language, but it is their language. And it's familiar. So we built that into the app. One thing we added was a delicate alert. So anytime your clothes go over 125 degrees F, you know, they're starting to be in that zone where if it's a delicate clothing, whether it be silk or whatnot, it could start to shrink or, you know, just get

damaged. So we built that into the app as well, because that's a feature that I wanted to see because my t-shirts were shrinking. And again, my dryer was getting excessively hot. So we also built in safety features. So now it'll give you an alert if your dryer goes into this excessive heat mode. So once you start going up to 165, 170, 175 degrees F, that is not a safe place for dryers to operate. That's actually probably indicative of a clogged vent or some other malfunction. So we will send you an alert to your phone when you get that or if your license is hooked up. So those are some of the features that we chose. They're on the front screen so that

they're easy to set. You can save them. They'll be your defaults. And the idea behind the app is basically you can have it as a set up and forget it. So you can save the defaults and every time you restart a load your the system will just automatically reset itself for the next load you never have to open the app again if you don't want to it'll just send you alerts uh to your phone or to your you know form to your watch or to your lexus so you can be as simple as that you set it up once and it's automatic or then you can like we're talking you can integrate it with lots of other stuff you can flash your you know laundry room lights when the dryer is done or all those kinds of other things.

So again, basically the rest of the app just goes into some other settings like, setting up Alexa and some of the backend troubleshooting and things like that, like testing a sensor. And it'll also send you an alert about a month before the battery dies. We're also monitoring the battery health inside and that's, you know, again, we're gathering all that data and feeding that back into,

you know, future designs and making that even better. But you will, as a user, you'll get an alert about a month before the battery is going to die. You'll get a low battery alert and then you can go into the app and it gives you little instructions on how to change the battery. So, so fundamentally the app is not very sophisticated, but it's not a very sophisticated appliance. And where it's all getting a lot more complicated is really now that we're building in all these integrations, that's kind of layering the app a lot more. So to be honest, most of the work went into making sure the installation process, which hopefully you only do once, really goes smooth. And that's where a lot of heavy lifting is really in the app. Sure.

You alluded to this in passing, and I'd love to talk about it a little bit more, dryers being a fire hazard. I actually didn't ever really connect those dots in my head of that being a potential issue. So talk about that a little bit more, but also expand out about some of your guys' plans to not stop at the dryer and alerting you when clothes are dry, for example, but broadening that out, looking at appliances. And I love the idea of, I think appliances are an underserved area of the smart home. And I love the idea of appliances getting better at alerting us when there are actual problems, fire danger being one of them, the need for maintenance being another.

How do you guys think about broadly adding intelligence to appliances to really give homeowners more proactive, actionable information about what's going on in their home? Yeah, absolutely. And that's something we thought about in the early days because it's actually included in the patent. We have part of the methodologies of what we do with the data. And one of them is to actually look at what's happening with your dryer over time, not only to see, OK, is this getting excessively hot repeatedly and that's creating a hazard. And, you know, it's it's it's forget to unplug the vent or you just haven't done it in 10 years, say, because dryers have an average lifetime of 16 years. So like you said, you said before, where you bought a dryer is pretty new. It's not smart, but you're probably going to have that for the next 15 years.

And there's no way for you know, you're being left out of this wave of smart home technology for a long period of time. And the only way to get back into that is to spend another thousand or twelve hundred bucks. And people just aren't going to do that. So this is a fifty dollar solution that kind of gets you there. But going back to the data. So then we can also, as we acquire more, a bigger user base and look at more data, it's actually coming through lots of different manufacturers because we are appliance agnostic. You can have a Whirlpool dryer and an LG washer and you'd need two apps to do that. But we would also, you know,

what we'd like to do today as we go forward is actually learn what's happening with your dryer and then tell you that there's a maintenance issue. It took 25% longer this time to dry your clothes than it did last month. So there's some issue coming up, whether it's a burner that's not working properly, or maybe it's indicative of this clogged vent issue that's upcoming rather than waiting until you get that excessive alert.

And then we want to expand out into making the entire laundry room smart. That's where we see us going. We want to be the leaders in the smart laundry room. So we currently have a beta product that we're working on for the washer. So you have, which will make your time more efficient, where you can know when your laundry is washed and then efficiently take it out so it doesn't get stinky in a washer, put it in the dryer. And then, you know, so it's, it pulls those two things really close together, right?

So it doesn't sit there for two hours. You're talking my language because right now, right now right before i came out here i'm like oh i got to swap the the little wash over so it won't stink when it you know and as soon as we get off the phone i've got to go in there and do that i'll remind you when we're done yeah better than an app yeah so exactly um but that's where we see it going and then you know and there's other issues so now you've got water in your laundry too. So we want to integrate fleet sensors and things like that. So you're, you know, so it's safety of your dryer. It's safety of that there's water not pouring out all over your laundry room.

And it's all in one app and it's appliance agnostic. So you can have all different appliances there and it can be all different ages, but you're still getting, you know, all those great features today for a very low price rather than paying $1,200 a pop. For the high end, you know, usually these features come, if they're there at all, like, you know, most of these things still won't give you delicate alerts or dry alerts. So just tell them when they're stopped, or maybe you can remote start them and things like that. But they are lacking in features where we have a lot more rich features. But quite honestly, we get customer feedback and we roll those into features fairly quickly.

We like to stay, you know, in touch with customers and make sure that we're giving them what they want. But we can make new features, you know, as a software guy, you know, like where it's kind of pretty quick to test out something new and see if people really take to it. Yeah, yeah. With the washer thing, I mean, and dryer for that matter. I moved into this house five or six years ago. And at the time, we just bought the and and and dryer for that matter my i moved into this house like five or six years ago and at the time we just bought the new washer and dryer and we kind of bought like i wouldn't say it's like the high end at all like it was kind of like the lower high end if that makes any sense it wasn't the top load it was the side loads and like it's kind of where i see

everybody have these days um but but um i think it was like right on the cusp of the smart industry or the smart home type kind of taking over or coming into the into the white goods of appliances and that kind of thing. So it doesn't have any smart brains in these things. But one of the things that you just said has already happened to me within that five years, the washer had a little hose inside that popped off. It was leaking water all over the place. And it was like, it had to take the top off the washer. And sure enough, there's a little hose that feeds into the washer that was just sitting there, you know, it's like, just plugged it back in, put the top back on. Yeah. I mean, but you wouldn't think of a newer

washer, you know, existing for only a handful of years to have that kind of issue. But yeah, it totally can. And, and there's no leak detection built into the LG washer that I have. It's just the dumb appliance that I bought and it's not going to get any better. So any product like that, or like what you have for smart, smart dry is going to add an incredible value to existing appliances that are out there right now. That's, that's a great idea. Absolutely. And we are not alone. There are, There are just dryers alone. There's over 80 million dryers in the US. And like I said, they last on average 16 years. We're all just being left out. And that's one of the main drives to get all that, you know, get those people the same rich features that we

can, you know, you can get by buying a new smart dryer. And quite honestly, those features in those dryers are staying the same for a long time. You know, you're not seeing a ton of innovation there. And we've actually had customers that bought SmartDry under old dryer, realized they had a problem, went out and bought a new SmartDryer or, you know, whatever brand and put SmartDry in and still got the energy savings. It was still more accurate at telling when to close or dry. So, you know, those energy savings are definitely real for a lot of people. And, you know, we do plan on expanding out so we get people more peace of mind across the whole laundry room.

And that's kind of where we've seen it go. Yeah. Speaking of energy savings, talk to us a little bit about the work you guys are doing with energy providers as a way of saving more of that energy and of getting your product in more people's homes. Yeah.

So that's one of the really unique things about SmartDry is that, as we spoke about, it is literally able to save energy from the first load of laundry it does. So what we did was we reached out to a firm out in Illinois that do, basically, they work with 25 of the largest utilities across the US. And what they do is they evaluate emerging technologies that save energy and, you know, make an impact on for the utilities on whether they can, you know, save on building out infrastructure or just, you know, plug this product into the rebate programs and those

kind of things. So we got accepted in and we've started a pilot program with Denim and we're launching out into different homes across that region of the country so that they can do third party validation of exactly what we're talking about here so that they can do third party validation of exactly what we're talking about here so that they can say okay yes we're saving this number of therms and btus per year it's got a payback for the customer like we estimate right now it can save you an average home at seven loads of laundry a week uh somewhere north of about thirty dollars a year in just energy savings if you pay attention to the alerts or if you have a smart plug to turn

it off so we're in that program right now. We're really excited to get those out there and people are turning them on and saving energy and we'll get some real third-party validation. And then what will happen at the end of that then is that we'll start to be included in some of these green marketplaces that you see. Maybe you've seen them on your natural gas bill or your electric bill being promoted as far as energy rebates. And it's very similar to what, you know, you can get a nest now for a hundred dollars from your local energy company,

whereas your gas or electric, because it has real savings over the lifetime of the product. And so SmartDry is going on that same lane, basically. It's that unique in that it can have significant energy savings over the life of the product. So yeah, we're excited to see where that goes over the next couple of months, but it's already been launched. That's great. Sorry, Seth, I have one quick follow-up on that. David, you and I had a chance to connect as we were prepping for this. And you mentioned something

to me that I found really interesting and I hadn't thought about before, that energy providers actually are, in a sense incentivized to save energy. It's kind of counterintuitive because you would think they want to sell as much energy as possible. Share a little bit of that idea with our audience. Yeah, absolutely. Especially in the gas end of it, the utilities that are providing the gas, some parts of California, there's an awful lot of regulation and cost capital expenditure that goes into putting a new pipeline into the ground. And you may never have it happen because it just sort of parts of this country that just can't build out any more pipeline, especially in the gas. So they have to really conserve what they've

got. And, you know, so that's, that's part of it. The other part of it is too, that these projects are not millions of dollars or tens of millions of dollars. They're tens of billions of dollars. So really you want to be able to plan out what you have now and plan out that capital expenditure. Anywhere you have, like the dryers, for example, your laundry room is the third biggest energy vampire in the home. You've got heating, cooling and heating your water, and then you've got your electric or gas dryer. So that's a great place to save energy and they you know so all of us have a little tiny couple of cent kind of taxes on all their electric every unit of electric that you use or a unit of gas that you use and that pays

for these programs so that they can incentivize their users to be like hey look go buy a new water heater that's a little bit more efficient. And then, you know, that kind of gets them the savings that they want to see on their grid and, you know, through their gas system. So yeah, everybody would think, yeah, we want to sell as much energy as possible. But that also comes with a cost. There's huge build-out costs for making the network bigger and providing it to, you know, just even more energy to the, to the customers you have, not alone new customers. Oh, it's interesting to think about that way. Um, when a zoom way out, you, you mentioned a couple of times here, uh, about, you know, what may be on the horizon, like taking a look at like the big picture of the appliances in, in someone in your home, uh, what you see, um, as other opportunities, you know, outside the washer and dryer to, to, to expand into.

Yeah. So again, the, the making, making a client, making dumb appliances smart was kind of our main theme. There's plenty of dumb appliances. It's kind of where we're going with that. Yeah. So we've actually played around. We actually just got a, recently we got our second patent. It's on a unit that we're basically calling it a power rim. But it's a couple of issues that we have. It's a little unit that will sit behind dumb smoke detectors, but it has a dual purpose.

Not only will it smarten up a dumb smoke detector and sit there and look for, you know, a trigger on the trigger line for the smoke detector, but it also has power integrated to it so that what it will do will pull away some of the wall acne. So your motion sensors and cameras all hanging on your desk or a shelf or whatever and put it into more opportunistic locations where your smoke detectors are. So that's, again, making something that's dumb, smart, but also bringing some capability to it and cleaning up some of the wall acne. We also played around with a thing that basically goes into a sprinkler system on your rain sensor. And it basically makes any dumb sprinkler system smart. And it's working through the rain sensor portion of it. And then it's

basically all app driven. So it's kind of like just a Wi-Fi connection to a dumb sprinkler system. And that is another conservation play because basically every time you run a sprinklers, whatever part of the country you're in, you're probably spending about 15 to $25 each run in just water alone. So you will get your money back first run you do it, you know, first run or two, but you're also saving thousands of gallons of water every time you don't do that. So those are some of the things that we've played around with. We have prototypes, again, expanding out into other places that we see really just dumb appliances or dumb items that need to be smartened up. But there's big clawbacks on, you know, like in the case of the sprinkler add-on where it's going to save a lot of water.

You're just adding to my list of honeydews. I forgot to water the lawn today. I'm just going to keep on the list for the end of the show here. But I have one more idea for you. And I don't think it doesn't have any energy savings other than my time is we need appliances. I've been begging for this forever, but we need appliances that can hold the time inside of them, like an oven clock that can hold the time longer than 22 milliseconds when the power dips out. You'd imagine a little tiny battery would be all they need. No, no. It would be great. It would be great.

I mean, ultimately, what I would love to see is that an alert from the dryer tells my little robot, if I had one, to go grab the clothes, fold them, and put them away for me. That's ultimately where I see this going, guys. Yeah. If we can dream for a second to get our ovens to keep the time, well, then I want a robot that'll fold my clothes. I think your robot is more realistic than me ever getting an oven that has a time that doesn't last. Oh, wow. Well, David, if you want to scale it back to start a little more lean you could just start with getting a robot that'll take them from the washer to the dryer oh wow yeah okay like just an idea baby steps baby steps oh that sounds great that's great david what um i do want to thank you for your time and and taking time out of the day to join us here and chat about SmartDry.

No problem. Can you let everyone know where you can pick up a SmartDry unit and how much it would cost? Yeah, absolutely. So right now we're on Amazon. You'll see us. All you have to do is go on Amazon and search for SmartDry. It will pop up really quick on the top. And right now it's $49.99. So basically, you know, it's very affordable, obviously against the price of a new dryer, or even the difference between a non-smart dryer and a smart dryer is $300 to $400 right there. So really $50 gets you all those features instantly. And like you said, it's easy it into smart things and stuff like that, you can actually get your money back definitely within a lifetime of the product.

It's about north of $30 a year you get back in energy savings. So it's not very expensive, but I think you can pay for yourself over a lifetime of it, definitely. If our listeners wanted to learn more or connect with you, David, what would be the best way for them to do that? Yeah. So you can go to connectedlifelabs.com and you'll see all the kind of fun stuff we're up to there. There's links to the website for SmartTry itself and some of the other ideas that we're playing around with. And there's email and everything. You can reach out to me anytime. I'd love to hear from our customers and people that are thinking about it, or just even to talk

about tech. Again, at the end of the day, we're all engineers. We love to just kind of mosey around with new ideas. It's always fun to hear from people. That's great. We'll include links to that in our show notes at hometech.fm slash 320. David, thanks so much for coming on the show. Thank you so much. It was a lot of fun. I appreciate it. All right. That'll do it for our interview with David. And again, really enjoyed that conversation, learning a little bit about the inner workings of developing this device and some of their bigger picture visions.

I've alluded to this on the show. I alluded to it in the interview as well. I do believe that appliances are an underserved area of the current connected home landscape. I think there's opportunity there. And I enjoyed learning about the innovative approach that David and his team are taking to tackle, tackle that area. Yeah, definitely. There's, there's a lot of appliances in the house that are dumb and it's, it's anybody who can put something on to make them smarter, especially

a dryer. You know, that's, that's, that's a good thing. I, and you know, thanks to David, it reminded me that I needed to go put things into my dryer. So got that done too. Thanks, David. He did indeed. Yeah. Dual, dual purpose, dual purpose interview here.

We got the interview done and Seth got reminded to do his laundry and water the, water the grass. Yep. So there you go. All right. Well, let's shift quickly here into a highly relevant mailbag, given our conversation with David and how it relates to energy savings. We got a follow-up from Scott Remick, and he said, after listening to Seth's non-review of the sense system, I wanted to chime in on my own research as I've been wanting something for my own home to compliment the fact that I have solar panels. He goes on to list a bunch of the products that he's looked at since

powerhouse dynamics, e-monitor, e-gauge, current costs, N-V-I-R, Ted pro home, curb, Nurio,

smappy, and effergy elite. So he's done his homework here. He said, all of these has shortcomings that made them unsuitable for what I wanted at the end of the day. I've decided to go with something called Brule Tech. And we'll include a link to that in the show notes. I was not familiar with it, but he goes on to say, while this is not perfect, it was the only one that provided the level of info I wanted per circuit versus whole house and the ability to monitor a

sufficient number of circuits. Goes on to talk about how he does wish he could do per appliance for finer grain monitoring, but he's made peace with the fact that he'll have to run a parallel system that uses inline outlet devices to monitor at that level. So he hasn't quite got this fully installed yet, but again, clearly Scott's done his homework here. And for anyone out there who is considering energy monitoring for their home, give that one a look. Yeah. He mentioned something there that I meant to, but the conversation was kind of off the cuff. But I can see that these types of devices would be infinitely more useful. Even the Sense would be infinitely more useful if I had solar hooked up. So yeah, if you have a solar system on your house, I can definitely see how this would be something to look at.

And even Sense in its limited capacity, just kind of like guessing and chucking things in front of you, um, would be helpful. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. That, that makes a lot of sense. So again, Scott, thanks for reaching out and for anyone out there who's looking into those types of solutions. We hope that helps. Well, Jason got a pick of the week this week. Finally. Uh, I think, I think you're going to enjoy this one. I think I'm going to enjoy it more than you though. Cause it's here physically in my hands oh there it is tactile tactile remote with hard buttons for the apple tv you're speaking my love language i like it let's see it hold that thing up let's see if i can all right get this oh you know what i should do there it is there can you see it i've got transport controls i've got uh up down left right okay i've got a button

at the top that says menu with a little circle around it i've got volume for the tv or whatever i've got it hooked up to and some kind of p up and down i have no idea what p up and down does only one way to find out. I will figure this out. So Seth, is this, this may be a dumb question, but is it, does it connect Bluetooth to the Apple TV or does it have to do IR? Like, does Apple allow?

This looks like a Bluetooth remote. Got it. But it does have volume for the TV. So I wonder how it's, maybe it's using CEC for that. Yeah, it must be. Yeah. What's the brand name on that one? Oh, sorry. Yeah, it's a Function. You can. Yeah, it must be. Yeah. What's the brand name on that one? Oh, sorry.

Yeah, it's Function. You can get these over at function101.com and put a link in the show notes. I think it's kind of nice to have this just off on the side. Reach over, grab it, feel your way through the remote and push the buttons. I still have the Apple TV, you know, remote here that with a little silicone case that we both have come to love. And the reason I still have it here

is because of the magnets on the back and I can stick it under the desk here and it just doesn't walk away that way. Indeed. You know, on top of the desk, they disappear. Yeah, I like this. I'll have to, I'll have to give this a look. I'm not a big fan of the apple tv remote i find the swiping to be really hard to control on certain instances like particularly in my tableau app um it's super sensitive and so i'm wondering if maybe a this button with the physical left right cursors might might be a better solution for me yeah i'm looking at their website it says it's ir so i wonder if if it's got a little bit of both. I don't know. It says it's programmed to work with Apple TV and Apple TV 4K out of the box.

I haven't set it up. I really don't need to set it up. I just need to turn around and I can't see the Apple TV screen from here. I'll give this a go tonight and report back if it's not any good. I suspect I'm going to fall in love with the buttons. There you go. We will be. It actually, it doesn't feel bad. Like it's kind of the same material

that these silicone cases that we have. Yep. Like the backs of those, that's the front of this and the other side's a hard plastic. So it feels like a normal remote and you can definitely move your thumb around and feel where things are.

So very good well i will anxiously await your final verdict on that one i'll give it a give it a spin all right if you have any feedback questions comments picks of the week or ideas for a show topic or guest please do give us a shout we would love to hear from you our email address is feedback at hometech.fm again that's feedback at hometech.fm. Again, that's feedback at hometech.fm. Shoot us a note. We'd love to hear from you. We want to give a big thank you to everyone who supports the show, but especially those who are able to financially support the show through our Patreon page. If you don't know about our Patreon page, head on over to hometech.fm slash support

to learn how you and others support the show for as little as $1 a month. Any pledge over $5 a month gets you a big shout out on the show. And speaking of which, Jason, we do have a $5 pledge this last couple of days that has come through. I think his name is Eddie. I did see that come in, and I think that may be. Well, he put his name as EMS on the thing. EMS, yeah. I'm wondering.

I knew his name as EMS on the thing. EMS, yeah. I'm wondering, I'm wondering, I'm going to speculate that maybe Eddie, it might be Eddie Shapiro, who came on with us last week. He was one of our sort of roundtable panelists that we had on. It was, it was. He came in on our Slack as Eddie Shapiro. So there we go. So Eddie, Eddie from SmartTouchUSA, thank you so much for supporting the show. We really appreciate it.

Yep. Thanks, Eddie. And if you're looking for other ways to support the podcast here, we would definitely appreciate a five-star review on iTunes or in your podcast app of choice. Those reviews definitely help more people find the show. So if you enjoy what we do here on the Home Tech Podcast,

please take a minute to do that. It would be greatly appreciated. Well, Jason wraps up another week in home technology. News cycle feels like it's finally coming back. I don't, everybody's been kind of like sitting back for the summer. The summers are usually pretty slow,

but we're starting to pick up on activity now. I know there's an Amazon event tomorrow. There is. So we'll have to pay attention to that. There's already been, Dave Zatz has already been all over it. He's already leaked out some Fire Stick mini thing. I don't know. Some new Fire Stick mini.

He's always got the scoop. Yeah. So we'll have to keep an eye on that and report back next week on it. Yeah, absolutely. We'll look forward to that. Seth, have a great weekend. We'll talk to you again soon. You too.

Have a good one. All right. Take care.