Honey You're Ruining Our Kid - Ep 25 My Kid Won't Study! The Hardest Conversation & Stage Fright

Episode Date: March 20, 2023

(Trigger Warning - The third and final question on today’s episode relates to the issue of suicide and how to speak to our children about the subject.) Question 1: No Dramas Stage fright is no fun at any point but when you’re five it’s a hard feeling to understand and push through. How do you arm your child with the confidence they need to be able to enjoy performing again. Question 2: Motivation How can you motivate a child who has lost their drive. Is there any reaching them? Can reward charts work with older kids? Not wanting to study for your leaving cert or care about having to repeat is alarming. How can you get your child back on track and get them excited about their future. Tina helps this mother find a way to ignite her child’s interests and get her to enjoy investing in her future again. Question 3: Life & Death This week Tina and Jarlath deal with their toughest question yet. A Mom gets in touch, extremely concerned for her 16 year old son who has recently lost a friend to suicide. Tina and Jarlath try their best to navigate this extremely sensitive subject while helping the mother become aware of the signs to watch out for, the places and resources available to help her through this time. If you have any advice that would also be helpful please get in touch by emailing [e-mail].

it's honey you're ruining our kid the parenting podcast the number one parenting podcast from the irishmanabroad podcast network my name is jarvis reagan this is my co-host tina reagan tina reagan and my wife she's the one with the answers you email email in to honeyyourruiningourkid at gmail.com. I literally read the emails back that she has already replied to with strategies and methods to help you through whatever parenting situation you find yourself in based on the 20 plus years of experience, Tina, that you've had in the business.

Have you ever met a problem that you've been like, I don't know, how are we going to... you see all these common all these problems are so common you see so many repeating patterns you know yeah that's why it's good for parents to know you're not nothing you're experiencing is lonely because reach out someone else has gone through this as well you're not on your own and that is fundamentally one of the main reasons for starting this show and the second reason was to create a podcast that isn't judgmental yeah well we try our best we try our best i think last week i let myself down a tiny bit you know we all are tired sometimes we all get tired when it comes to screens i do get very very upset but like i said i will never think that was your first pro show of call is that the word port of call

port of call but like this was the thing about last week and I urge people to go back and listen to it because as upset as Tina got over it because it's an upsetting situation and it's an upsetting

parenting situation for lots of people who find themselves reduced to it reduced to screens and the civil point you made was

you can put your kid on a screen of course. Yeah. But there has to be limits and boundaries. Oh, absolutely. And it can't be the first thing you do or the only idea you have. And come to me, I'll help you through it, whatever it is.

If you are afraid of not putting your kid on the screen, it seems to be fear. Parents fearful of what their kids will do without the screen. I'll help you through that. I've helped loads of parents through that and also what tina's i think your best skill in this is the ability to break habits tina told me ages ago that you can break any habit in three days is that right to four days with kids with children yeah so that includes toilet training oh yeah sleeping issues well it's the consistency If you can really engage and give yourself over to what it will take to break the habit, it's doable. Yeah.

I'm just back. Speaking of tired, I'm just back from a 30 kilometer run in the Phoenix Park. So I'm preparing for the London City Marathon. And I do need to say thanks to you because the amount of understanding that it takes when somebody takes on a marathon, it's you're the unsung hero of this journey with under 40 days to go. The amount of the miles and the amount of time just going. Honestly, Charlotte, I was excited for you to do it because I thought you would be like tired like me and I wouldn't be so on my own in this tired feeling. But like you just still aren't tired you still don't i was like he'll want to go to bed early it's gonna be so exciting none of that's happened so that's what pisses me out but shouts to all of the couples male and female because it's because it's there's so many

women out there training for it i see the groups running uh and the amount of time that you're expected to handle the business exactly handle the business of stuff while i go and run around in circles for the runs are getting longer it's like okay i'll see you five hours from now but we're near the end we're near the end have you got a situation though and this is where I'm going with this, you have a situation where your partner is doing some kind of extracurricular hobby and you're like, this is taking the piss now. Well, I am. And thinking that the only thing I think is I did hope you'd be tired. Sorry. I always remember that Michael McIntyre bit where he said that when he puts on Netflix and it goes, that's his head hitting the couch and going to sleep.

That is me. But I'll never forget when you donated your kidney. I was like a few days. I never bring that up. Go on. I was in my head thinking I'll have a few days now where he'll be too wrecked to do anything. An hour later anything an hour later an hour after he woke up he was out of the bed walking around i was like but that was the advice yeah no it was very annoying for you but that was the advice get i sound so rash but you don't

understand i tired all the time i tired all the time i'm too tired to talk properly charlotte's never tired and he doesn't even sleep. Like that's really annoying. Yeah. But you know what? I am grateful and that is what I'm trying to get to. I am massively grateful and I wasn't expecting.

You're welcome for me doing nothing. What do I do? I do nothing. I give you a glass of water when you come home. Three incredible questions this week. One on five-year-old stage fright. Yes.

That is maybe my favorite question in the last few months uh the second one remind me what it's about uh a young girl who is refusing to study for her study for the leaving cert of teenage question we've been threatening to do teenage stuff but this is a question of motivation leverage a poor mother got in touch saying i need need help motivating my daughter. I need help with this. Yeah. And of course, this doesn't just go up to the leaving age of school.

This can be way, way lower than just the lack of motivation to actually do the study. It's peculiar, though, not to give that much of a hoot about your leaving. Let's get stuck into that one. And the final question, one that we definitely need to talk about with the amount of suicide in the country, and this is a trigger warning for anybody. Yeah, no, it's a very sad question. It's a very sad question. But how do you talk to your kid

about this sensitive subject? I'm dying to hear what you have to say. When they lose their friend to it. Yeah, really tough. Well, that's all coming up on Honey, You're Ruining Our Kid. And of course, you can hear the resolution

of previous weeks and previous issues that we've had on the show in the patreon edition which is a bumper size episode that goes out every week on patreon.com forward slash irishmanabroad hey tina and jar love the show and have've gotten so much great advice from you have emailed twice before both toilet related thankfully this mail is a toilet free zone thank god for that because this woman sent one more toilet email that's a dad oh well, then keep them coming. Our five-year-old did his first ever Christmas concert last year and loved it in italics. He loves singing and dancing both in school and out of school.

So we recently started him in a local drama class and it's not going great. Classes break into three sections, singing, dancing and drama. He says he likes to sing, but not the other two. And after each class tells us he doesn't want to go back. Never a good sign. We discovered that one day in class, he forgot his drama line and was very cross and upset over it. He was worried that this would mean he would be the only child without a line from now on. We've tried to be very supportive and understanding with him and told him that we think once he settles in, he will really like all three classes

and that if it turns out he doesn't, then he doesn't have to keep going. But it's important to give it a chance to see if he likes it. He's only done three classes so far, so one of each. My wife spoke with the drama teacher who reassured her, our son and our son, that he definitely still had a line and there was no need to be upset about forgetting his line once what we're trying to figure out is how much to push him and not let him give up on the class okay too soon and then to accept that he doesn't want to go and just drop it after the last class he got quite upset with my wife about not wanting to go back i don't want to push him into something he doesn't want to do but we can be he can be a shy kid.

So sometimes he needs a bit of a push, a bit of an encouragement. I'm certain he will really enjoy it once he settles in, gets over his initial nerves. But I also want him to have the freedom to choose the activities he likes and doesn't like without us pushing him into anything against his will. It's a tough balance to strike, he says. Any advice you could give would be massively appreciated. Keep's a tough balance to strike, he says. Any advice you could give, we massively appreciate it. Give up the great work.

Thanks, Anonymous. Very nice email. Well, there's so much to this email, isn't there? Because what we all need to remember is there's every chance this child has a real natural talent for acting and performing. But he's only five. And five might not be the age where we explore this so that is something to keep in mind because five is a very tricky age

for children where they've suddenly become self-conscious so he might just be in too much of a phase of thinking about people looking at him too much to be able to actually allow himself to enjoy it and the only reason I feel good enough to say that is because we had a similar situation ourselves whereas our boy is a very natural performer he loves to be on stage just like his daddy he lives and lights up up there and when he was five four or five he was in his christmas play it went really really well but it went so well the attention from it actually made him not want to do it anymore yeah he thought he cleared drama but he also he just didn't like how much people were telling him he was good at this he felt like it wasn't i feel like he didn't think it was fun

anymore now there was pressure now he had to go to a class because we did the exact same thing we signed him up to a drama class and he didn't like it he really didn't like it and we had to take a step back and then a year later we found a different drama class and he loved it charlotte's like i don't even remember i'm doing the real 80s dad going chis i don't even remember sending him to it last at all but yeah what was that yeah because we went to um a local in the local community center first but he didn't yeah you're so funny because well you were probably around the same time as you'd given your kidney. Was it? Right. Because I kind of looked at this really important email around the similar subject of last week in terms of completing games. Yeah, but I love the language that Dad is using.

I love that he has recognised my kid is a bit shy. Also, we don't want him quitting. I love that. shy also we don't want him quitting i love that so there well how can we help him try that but still in his heart be willing to accept if his kid is just not ready right now and this is what i'm saying yeah poor jarley that would be the 30k run you just yeah so i'm saying that the cell needs to be well we've signed up for six weeks we need to see the course out yeah and then you choose that's a good idea let them know the time limit definitely that they know it's not forever yeah even put it on the visual calendar on the fridge it's not forever stick it up on the calendar

exactly um but he's wondering what should they do How do they work with him and help him without pressurizing him? And a really good way is practice with him. Sometimes people think with little kids like this, they think, well, we don't want to overdo it. We don't want him to lose the joy of his lines and what he's doing. But actually, at this age, repetition is really important. And practicing his lines with him daily actually makes it more of a reflex when he goes to talk and something that's really practiced and in the habit of doing. And he's not, you know, he's so used to it because he's been practicing with his parents every day

that the words aren't so alien coming out of his mouth. Yeah, I think it's a really good point that, like, you just get back on the horse. It's like the kid that comes home from basketball and says, I missed the shot and everyone was like, you should have scored that shot yeah you don't rest on it you just go let's go out and shoot more shots like i found it really tough in that the school i worked in really didn't like pressurizing the kids to do the christmas play and then were really disappointed with them on the day when they didn't do it yeah and i had worked in another school where they really understood the process and how we have to rehearse because the more we rehearse the more these kids are at home

with their characters at home with what they're doing and get up get to a point where they can be silly yeah it's automatic and the excitement there's nerves there but there's nervous excitement too it's not just dread anymore so there's that but then there's also how do we empower him so it's really good to kind of you know on the way to drama class i know this is going to sound silly play really powerful music like that is a tool that they say you should use with kids who are on the way to a performance and feeling nervous about it get katie perry roar on or eye of the tiger greatest showman all these songs that actually without him even realizing have built up this sense of occasion and excitement in him as he goes into drama class can i ask you though tina because this has come up a bunch of

times as well is listening to what your child is saying slightly too much and that like your child is saying i forgot my line or i don't like rugby because of the they're mean to me the coach shouted at me that like we do don't we all need to take some of the things our kids are saying with a pinch of salt now i'm not saying i'm not diminishing what they're they're going through here but if we make it into oh this is very serious we need to think about this whereas if we're a bit more like our parents would have been a bit more like ah sure look we all forget our lines sometimes yeah well like i get the i uh i get the feeling from this email that the dad has been very, tried to be as chilled as he can be. But I think it's actually fabulous that we live in an age now where our kids can tell us something. And you're right, we have to be careful not to live their experience with them and, you know, not to make it bigger.

But isn't it brilliant that this kid has been able to tell his parents, like explain the nerves. that this kid has been able to tell his parents like explain the nerves but then also what might be good to come back to him with is nerves are important this feeling that you're having is is normal yeah and let's use this nerves in a different way because you know explaining to him that sometimes the nerves are just how excited you are to do this yeah and we have to be careful not to confuse those feelings with fear you know also percent like as somebody who gets on stage a lot that was a breakthrough for me yeah because i did have you know tight stomach get sick yeah i feel like i'm gonna cry but uh but the second i started to reframe yeah reframing nerves as this is my body getting ready to perform yeah and you know i always think about carly simon who you know people

may not know this but she would only face the band at different points in her career she wouldn't face outwards she would just face the band and the way she overcame it was literally through reframing wow performance anxiety as performance excitement yeah and that you literally want to do your best and even that kind of a discussion with your kid around well being nervous is good yeah because it means it matters oh no that's a really important chat that's really important but also for the parents just knowing that this age of five and six is a tough age for them because they've just realized that people notice stuff that they do they're they're self aware and they don't understand what they're even self-aware of they're getting embarrassed very easily because of that and their confidence can be knocked so easily like i'm sad that that teacher

didn't come and tell the parents how embarrassed that child must have been when he forgot his line because if she had they could have come in straight away and be like it doesn't matter you're gonna make mistakes yeah and it's all about how you how you cope with your mistake yeah the audience doesn't know the audience doesn't know you're the only one who knows and loads of actors improvise talk about improvisation like give him tools to save himself up there my first thought on this i don't know who the teacher is yeah but my first thought was this is a failure on their part yeah that's a tough sweeper though when she's probably dealing with 35-year-olds. I am prefacing it with this that I don't know what took place. But I do know that we need to keep the thing fun.

And that somewhere along the line, maybe this kid is one of those kids that's like, no, this is serious. I have a line. I've got to remember my line. I was thinking that, too. Like he's in a drama class now where he's just singing drama. And what was the other thing they said? I can't remember. There was three activities.

Oh, and dance. Yeah. Maybe he just likes singing. Yeah, that's possible. He didn't realize they all feed into each other. It's all expression i just feel like you've got to remind i believe you need to remind your kid of how much fun this is we're in a situation with our own son where a particular sport has become too serious too quick

yeah and we found him an outlet where he goes to a day of that sport where it's not serious and it's just about play yeah and it changed everything it did but if you stay with me for a second with what i mean about the singing maybe just before singing you know what drama's like at that age you're told to act like a horse and you know walk like an elephant you know if this kid embarrasses quite easily maybe he doesn't like doing those activities maybe he just likes to sing so they do have a lot to think about here but i do think you're the tool you said of give him the timeline show him on the calendar let him know this is not forever this is just something where and also don't fresh if it's not right now because if you've got a kid who has a talent this

way they're first of all they're gonna want to do it eventually it's in them it's a compulsion it's in them and they're gonna want to do it and maybe this just isn't the right time yeah you know but also keep it fun keep it fun at home like with with mikey and his performance the the most fun i have with him in performance is our private improv yeah and practicing as much as you think that will kill the love that won't that will settle their soul yeah yeah they will feel prepared for other people let him do his line over preparing is a good feeling for a kid because they don't feel as they don't feel like mistakes are going to happen they feel like i got this i remember this you know the calmness

yeah tina i don't know how you're going to answer this one. I'll be totally honest with you. Why? This might be one of the toughest questions we've ever had. How do I get my child to study for their exams? My eldest has their leaving cert this year. She is not doing any work as far as I'm concerned. All she wants to do is listen to music or hang out with her friends.

She says things like, I can just repeat. Now I'm imposing that voice on this person. But imagine saying that, I can just repeat. It doesn't even matter. And my favourite,

I didn't study for the junior cert and everything was fine. She probably didn't even have to do her junior cert because she's a pandemic I don't think she has considered the repercussions and will be upset when she's faced with the reality

of not doing well and having zero options please help me motivate my daughter good luck Tina when you get to see Millie, are you just like, oh, holy moly. Well, firstly, my heart went out to the mom. Yeah. I thought, this is tough.

And secondly, I thought, I'm glad she got in touch because she's probably doing a lot of shit wrong. Could you imagine how frustrated she is? Yeah, of course but we're all like we're all experts yeah and then when it comes to your own kid

oh yeah and you find yourself losing the rag they know how to push our buttons you know yeah needling you and like saying things

like I can just repeat and you're going that's a whole year of your life like it's a whole year of your life like that

that's worrying that's that statement alone is worrying because this child needs guidance they need a plan they aren't thinking about their future at all yeah and they it sounds like she doesn't connect the dots between this and what i'd like to do with the rest they're too cozy They're too cozy. That child wants to be a child forever. They're not even like I couldn't wait to get out the door. I was so excited to start my own little life. I mean. Even I need to give the listeners a little side note here. Tina was an independent child at the age of four when she didn't want anyone making her bed. She wanted to walk to school by herself. From what I can tell, you were like, can I get my own flat when you were 12 years old? My ambitions to be a single mother.

Yeah. I don't know when I read this, like I definitely had friends like this. Did you really? Yeah. Okay, wow. I obviously hung around with more... A very motivated bunch. A very motivated bunch.

Well, like, definitely I hung around with good friends who were pulling my socks up for me and encouraging me to do the work, you know. She needs a plan. She, first of all, needs to get in touch with that school because they are doing her mr miss service really how the hell have that school not communicated to this child but isn't there always kids that are like whatever i'll repeat well we gotta do better for those kids we gotta

reach them because they are gonna the real the actual reality of repeating, that's horrible. Who do you know who's enjoyed that? Even the people who choose to. Like I had a friend who missed out on architecture by 10 points or something crazy. Yeah. And had to repeat and got it a second time. But like that was miserable for her. No.

Also, she needs to outsource. No. Also, she needs to outsource. So you're going to have to, hopefully, if they're able to afford to, get that kid into some kind of grinds or study program. Right. But it is March. You know, this is the thing. It's like this woman sends this email in because she's like. Yeah, she's panicking.

They've just done the marks. Probably got the results back. Yeah. Like, Tina, motivation is a funny thing because it does come from within and that you going we need a plan like it's quite hard to instill it well i always say this to you it is hard to always answer these questions without seeing the person yeah like my old job i observed the behaviors met the child watched them got to know them then came up with a plan so we are guessing sure but your first instinct about this kid doesn't want to grow up i don't think that's spot on she's too

comfy and also why would you want to stay let not forget, these kids have been through way more than us. They've gone through a pandemic. So emotionally, mature-wise, she might not be there. But someone has to get it through to her. You've missed out on enough of your life. Repeating is not an option. I had friends who struggled with the Leaving Cert in terms of motivation and then afterwards took a year off.

Really? To figure out. Maybe that's... To actually recharge. So I think what you're saying is, terms of motivation and then afterwards took a year off really to figure out maybe that to actually recharge so i think what you were saying is because i know that you always say that if you had had an incentive maybe she needs rewards a different kind of reward system for an older child maybe there's something she wants enough that this mom can tap into that will make her try it's also about that's a whole going around the house right that's what i love about this like my parents probably looked at me and were like

it doesn't seem to be into it and my sisters were all 600 points girls and i just didn't like my attitude was they're just going to give you more homework which sounds quite similar to this girl yeah i was like why bother homework? There's going to be more tomorrow, which is a bizarre view to take. Yeah, but you, much like this girl, ended up doing really well. Do you think there's a chance she might end up doing really well without studying? Of course there is,

but I did study in the end. Did you? Okay. But the motivation came. And like you say, going around the house and going, rather than grabbing her by the lapels and going and you don't realize the impact of your. If you can find the leverage, if you can find the thing that if it's like, well, you know, if you do well, we send you to university after this, that, you know, we would happily, you know, get you out in whatever clothes you wanted for that yeah i think there's zero doubt that whatever they're doing is not working whatever the

motivation is no i don't think she's gone to a motivator yet but whatever techniques she's using yeah she's digging the heels she's that's not working so i also think that you need to talk to this child about. Like sometimes teenagers who get to see their friends a lot and hang out assume that those friends are not doing their work. Oh, yeah. Like that was a game changer for me when someone was like,

or I think what happened to me was get her to go to the local library. I remember going to the local library for the crack and then seeing everyone i thought who was a cooler around town in there studying so hard yeah and being like holy shit i need to cop on we need to actually catch up here so maybe something like that expose her to the realities she needs to be exposed like other this is this is scary talk because this is a lady who's lacking this is this is scary talk because this is a lady who's lacking motivation yeah this is a teenager she's probably 18 well yeah because you're right like the motivation for the leaving search is

oh i can see university life or whatever job it is you're going to go to and that's that's the over the rainbow that you're reaching for has she not found yeah of course that she's mad for has she not gone out and visited the universities because a lot of them are doing online visits i reckon get her in a car go out and visit ucd dit go to galway walk around these campuses so here's the next year so that's that's true right that that should start the engine i very much doubt that she hasn't done that and i my next concern is the friends so once i hang out but once i hang out with the friends has there been a bit of group think we'll all repeat it'll be mad crack and it'll be so much easier next year what is the

chat among those do you reach out to their parents and go how how are you finding motivation and stuff like that no i don't think so what i would i'm always against that because i just think it gets messy it gets personal i think you go to the school you ask to meet with the earhead and you very frankly talk to them about the group of friends and the realities of are they all doing this or is it just my daughter because you go to the parents you're in like all of a sudden you're in this spiral of politics one person taking offense another person starting to blame your daughter i mean it just gets out of control so fast you said my daughter is about influence yeah i think there's three things she needs to do here.

First of all, set up a meeting with the year ahead. Definitely at the school. Find out what's going on in school and try and figure out a way where this, your daughter can have a special meeting with the careers advisor where, you know, realities of, you know, what repeating actually looks like. And why is there no passion

for what your next step is going to be? Second thing I think she should do is find out what's going to motivate her. Figure it out. Get her to work for it. Maybe pepper her with little rewards along the way and help her know how to do a study chart.

Maybe it's too overwhelming. Maybe she hasn't done anything and doesn't know where to start. Whereas we know, like you're not expecting her to get 600 points. She sounds overconfident.ident when she's saying i didn't study for junior certain was fine that that is a hubris yeah but i maybe maybe she didn't have maybe the junior cert wasn't as hard as it normally is or we've been through the pandemic i don't even know if

there was a junior cert properly so those are the three right no the third one is get out third one is get out i Third one is get out. I think maybe there's been too many things. Get out and visit these universities and stuff. I think maybe I'd imagine the frustration in this email. There might have been too many kicks up the arses and negative forms that haven't worked. Yeah. We got to rethink this whole thing.

Yeah. You're dealing with a grown up. Yeah, this girl could potentially be 19. Yeah yeah you're dealing with a grown-up yeah this girl could potentially be 19 yeah if you're dealing you're dealing with a grown-up and you have to offer like it's very tough even if she's not a tough question it's so hard because really it's all so personal there is no broad brushstroke on this and when i'm talking about motivation this is one of my special subjects. As a coach in sports and even just in my own life

where I realized, wow, I didn't have the leverage, the pants on fire is what I call it. I look at my writing, I look at my stand up and I go, oh, I didn't have alarm goes goes off get the hell out of bed i didn't have that for a lot of my life i heard ricky gervais talk about this that he didn't have it until he was 40 this can yeah happen and yeah but you still have a degree and a master's under your belt

exactly but this is the point. You can unlock it. Yeah. You can unlock it. It's a really like trying to get a trail of breadcrumbs. It's like inception. You need them to come to the idea themselves. Because when it emanates from them. Yes.

It's far stronger than it being like,'ll do this you'll do that repercussions this if you can get them to picture how much better their life will be with the solid leave insert and life in whatever university they're going to go to or job then that's where the pants go on fire yeah but what's the point in not trying is the hard thing but what are we hearing all the time unfortunately this is a gen z issue oh my god it's like i hate even taking it in like it's a truth but there's so many people complaining about this new generation of kids who expect to be managers having never worked expect to be given the you know the job without doing the internship like where has the grind gone but that's probably what this mom is thinking too she had to work

really hard for everything yeah but we have spoiled our children yeah our kids don't want for anything it's really tricky we have, we've given them so much. Yeah. They don't even have to think about waiting for something. It's all so instant. Yeah, it'll be delivered tomorrow. Oh, yeah. I mean, but there has to be a way of reaching.

There are ways and means. There has to be a way of reaching this girl. And we've got to go around it a different way. I can't wait to hear what the follow-up is next week. Yeah. Of course. Over on patreon.com forward slash Irishmanabroad, we're going to get the

follow-up on some of the questions tina has answered in previous weeks including the kid who couldn't play well well jarlett really slagged me about this the idea of giving the kid a notebook to write into during during the game he slagged me so much and i was so tired and lovable cranky that day then i really kind of stayed with me and i was like well maybe i've got that all right but luckily mommy got back in touch and you're going to hear all about it on patreon.com forward slash irishman abroad come on over it's how we support the show how we make the show it's how this show is possible and we're offering a 15 discount on annual membership so you can unlock all of the benefits over there for 15%

less this month. So yeah, this definitely comes with a trigger warning if you're in any way sensitive to or feel affected by suicide or any of these issues now would be a good time to skip forward or press stop and we'll see you next week because this questioner comes straight out and says it my son's friend committed suicide and i don't know how to help him through this heartache they were and are both 16 i don't know what to say to my kid how to help him in the process and processing it i can barely process it myself i'm also riddled with worry that now my son might be capable of this too his friends seemed happy what are the signs even what should i look out for this is all very stressful and upsetting. Hoping yourself and Charlotte will be able to help us in some way.

Well, I mean, this is a very hard question, isn't it? No way to answer. But the number one thing we're supposed to do, that they tell us you're supposed to do, is not to try and fix anything, to just be there to listen. And something in regards to this question, and I was trying to do my reading around it because you don't want to just assume anything, is that they say to be very direct when talking about it,

to actually use the word suicide to show that you're not fearful of talking about it and that this is a real thing that happened. And keeping the conversation open, not really empathizing with how they're feeling, not acting like you understand, but more being available to listen and to be ready to be comfortable in silence if they're not ready to talk yet but just being there is really important yeah i mean that's the starting point isn't it because once that communication line is open then you can go from there but i think it's really important what you said there in terms of not trying to say i know what you're going through that seems to be a phrase yeah that you should avoid at all costs it seems everywhere that was the one thing they suggest you really try and avoid doing it's hard because it's so such a pattern of ours to try think that you're doing the right thing particularly men offering up your own

experience but what they're saying is it's better to acknowledge to be direct to express concern for how they're feeling but to keep your own feelings out of it and just be ready to listen and not ready to fix just be ready to listen to what they're feeling and what they're going through. So avoid saying anything along the lines of. This happens, life has to go on. In fact, they're more saying things like to say things like this happens and it's shit. It's really sad. And I can see that you're sad in the same way we would advise if it was a younger child.

They're actually saying acknowledging their sadness and their fear is really important so that they feel seen. Because she's right to worry about her kid. It's terrifying. It's coming to her world, the fact that this could happen to her kid too. So what does she have to watch out for? What are the signs and there are a list of signs it's so it's so upsetting to even read them they say then things to watch out

for are an extreme focus on debt talking about feeling the need to escape the pain they're going through persistent bitterness anger or guilt difficulty turning up to things or keeping up with their schoolwork and a lack of concern for their own personal welfare neglecting personal hygiene would never have taught that wow um an increase in substance abuse an inability to enjoy life so maybe they're withdrawing you know they're becoming a bit more withdrawn constant feelings of hopelessness and again they end it with talking about dying and then unfortunately they attempt yeah um i mean those are really helpful to even know those to even hear them myself i, wow. So they've identified these as the signs.

And that was the central question in this is what should I watch out for? And that couldn't be clearer that those are red flags right there. Yeah, but it is terrifying because where's the help for these people? Where's the help for the boy who's going through this? Well, I know a friend of mine set up her own charity called Hug.ie when her own daughter did this. At 12 years old? 12. And the charity is to help support the people who are left behind.

So this Hug.ie is an incredible place where other people who have been through it are going through it and know exactly what you need are there. And she did it because she recognized there's nothing. There's no support. There's no support. That lady is actually stepping down and she's handing it over to someone else now. Because it's too much. I'd imagine it is. I mean, that little girl that she was 11

and she would have been 19 so she's eight years now she has held that position and done what she can and i think that has to take its toll on you so but that is a service that's available also we have jigsaw and headspace yeah that's not what it's called way ahead jen trechek has been a guest on the show and we'll of course include her details in the episode notes because when you say there's no help jigsaw has been credited at being one of the few places where you can get help where you can ring well i mean more professional when they bring their doctor yeah they're not advised yeah on the uh health service uh people do feel alone in this the other thing is that uh how do you how do you get that conversation and communication line open now you've mentioned this to me before and i've used it a bunch of times and that is the parallel play

that you do with small kids harder with an older child harder with an older kid but when you had a big bigger brother program in your school the walking yeah side by side yes so there's no direct eye contact and i do this with mikey all the time that the walk and the kind of you know we're in the middle of throwing a thing for something shooting hoops throwing balls all these things that the conversation can come out in those moments if you just stay the course without going so you know you just go like i was trying to root out things by going what was the happiest you were this week was the most you laughed in school this week and i know that that's not going to apply in this situation but i mean there are questions like i say the breadcrumbs again

yeah to get them to start talking i mean this is kind of what i do for a living in interviews is trying to get people to to talk and the way in which i've felt is best is to talk about something that doesn't seem related well you're right from your own childhood take the pressure off and they open up but uh offer some of yourself in regards to the parents here they have to be ready to be really patient and they also have to be ready that this will change your child there's no way it won't imprint on them they've lost their friend and their friend has taken their own life and that is going to be really hard for them to ever get their head around. And they will be they will have so many questions. And why? And none of us can ever answer those.

There is no business being available to listen. And like they say, it's directness, it's showing no fear when talking about it. That takes. I guess that takes the. It punctures it, doesn't it? Punctures the deflates the yeah, the the what's the enorm punctures it doesn't it punctures it yeah it deflates it yeah the the what's the enormity of it yeah because it's soul destroying it's so sad and this has to be a place for grief like but this kid's going to be reminded of his friend everywhere he goes yeah and now his friend

isn't here and he's going to have all these thoughts about well what did i do wrong all of this so you have to be ready to address them the other podcast i'd recommend on this subject is called the grief cast and it's an award-winning podcast and if you haven't heard of it need to get this into your life because in terms of myriad situations of grief and how it can feel that it's going to swallow you whole and how there is a way out the other side as difficult as that might seem grief cast is the podcast i'm recommending on this way ahead therapy gentrachic and of course jigsaw.ie and hug.ie for the mom and eventually the son but i mean my heart goes girl really hard to be able to answer that

all we can do is try and help but exactly I would tell that mom to get in touch anytime anytime she needs to at all

absolutely that's our show for this week but of course there's more over on patreon.com forward slash Irishman Broderick. You can hear the resolution of some of the strategies that Tina has given parents. Happy Mother's Day to all of you guys out there.

I hope it went well. Hope the flower fairy arrived. I hope nobody woke you up. I really do. I hope that you got even if you just got to. You know what it is. Everyone thinks you want to to lie on you don't want to lie on you're happy to wake up at half seven if you just wake up by yourself by yourself meaning with your husband gone no i mean without you know your child running in and slapping you in the face you know they don't get it everyone thinks you're

obsessed with getting a lie on she really wants her sleep bloody body but you just don't get it everyone thinks you're obsessed with getting a lion she really wants her sleep you just don't want to be woken up the i the feeling of waking up of your own accord is amazing more of that yeah and i always think it's amazing on mother's day to see the amount of moms out by themselves living the dream just a little bit of time to myself without you that's not really what it is i think no what happens how many dads do you see in the park on mother's day with their kids i don't care because you know what what happens on mother's day is it's the one day where you will allow yourself to be on your own and not feel bad about it because you'll think it's mother's day i don't need to feel guilty about this i can actually read a book for an hour and guess what you still end up feeling really bad about it and it's never

worth it because whoever you've left the kids with won't do a great job keeps going where is he's having a fit because i didn't feed him for the last six hours. Mom guilt is something we do need to talk about on this show. If you've got questions honey you are ruining

our kid at gmail.com Patrons of course can get a direct line to Tina direct line I'm of course preparing

to take the hot seat on the Late Late Show I'm not sure how many that on purpose direct line I'm of course preparing to take the hot seat on the Late Late Show I'm not sure how many of you heard this but I am going to be the new host I told Pat dealt with that pretty well

Pat Kenny on Newstalk when you announced it live on air live on air I told Pat Kenny or she haven't been in touch with me but I just know

I'm going to be the host yeah I'd be delighted if you were the host I could start watching the Late Late Show again. Tina, you're bold. That's what you are.

We'll see you next week for more Honey You're Ruining Our Kid. We want to hear from you. Give us a rating and an owl comment on Bell's iTunes. Give us a good nice one because I won't be able to take it. No, just say whatever you like. Just say, here's what I want to see

I want to see how many people will pull up Tina's really mean to John oh come on that's not true Tina has her hands full with John come on over to Patreon

and hear the rest of the show the extra bit over there is really fun loosey goosey round up of what's been happening with people

after they received the strategies from Tina's Tina's and their 99 I would say 100 they were yeah so far thank god well the ones who get back to me other people just going back to you know thanks tina talk to you next week i won't be talking to you in between love you terry