Honey You're Ruining Our Kid - EP3 Kids Mental Wellbeing Episode With Special Guest Jen Trzeciak

Episode Date: September 18, 2022

Jar nearly wrecks the house and his back when he's asked to take care of one kid while Tina is sick. Today they pick through the rubble and welcome the brilliant Jen Trzeciak to the show. Jen is an Occupational Therapist and founder of Way Ahead Therapy. The challenges facing parents and kids emerging from the pandemic are no joke. Jen has extensive experience working with young people and parents, having spent over 5 years as a clinical manager at Jigsaw, the National Centre for Youth Mental Health and more than 20 years working in the field of mental health services. Today she helps Jar and Tina with some of the tougher questions they have received in recent weeks. "Honey, You're Ruining Our Kid" is the new zero judgement parenting podcast from the Irishman Abroad podcast network and Goloud. Anonymously submit your parenting questions and they will find you an answer - [e-mail] Our charity partner is jigsawonline.ie. In these tricky times, Jigsaw provides a range of resources, advice and care for young people to help them strengthen their mental health and gain the skills needed to navigate life. Please visit their website and consider making a donation. For updates on future episodes find us on Instagram. Disclaimer: All materials contained within this podcast are copyright protected. Third party reuse and/or quotation in whole or in part is prohibited unless direct credit and/or hyperlink to the Irishman Abroad podcast is clearly and accurately provided.

Hey there, before we get started, I just wanted to flag that our conversation with Jen Trecek was recorded mid-COVID. In fact, Tina, when we were recording this, had just recovered from the virus at the time. So there's a bit of discussion about that. What is miraculous though, is that a lot of the advice that Jen gives in relation to stress and the leaving cert still applies today. I know you're going to enjoy it. It's the third episode of Honey, You're Ruining Our Kid.

I've said it once and I'll say it again, even without the challenges of the last two years, raising your kids not to be eejits, never mind gobshites, is exceptionally hard. I honestly don't know anyone with a kid who isn't having a little bit of a struggle at the moment. And I don't know anyone that wouldn't feel a little bit better from talking about it a bit more. And that's why we're here again with our new podcast presented by Go Loud and the Irish Men Abroad Podcast Network, Honey, You're Ru our kid. The Parenting Podcast. This is a place where you can come to anonymously submit your parenting problems, your questions or what you're seeing and you're worried about with your kid or kids around you in your environs. We're always joined by Tina Regan. She is a child development expert with

20 years of experience in education and early intervention. Tina, thank you so much for being here. I'm so happy to be here and just love doing this podcast, love getting the questions in. They're incredible. And I think we were really lucky today to get to talk through these questions with the amazing Jen. Jen Treczyk is our guest today and she is something else. She is, of course, an occupational therapist who I met through our chosen charity partner, Jigsaw.ie. If you have any further questions around this, like we're going to have some fun. We're going to answer the questions as best we can. We'll have a bit of crack here before we go to Jen on the live line.

But really, Jigsaw.ie is an incredible resource. we go to Jen on the live line. But really, jigsaw.ie is an incredible resource. Even if I just pull it up on screen right now, you can just go to their resource page and just say, I'm a parent looking for support. And then straight away, all these other things pop up, like, are you dealing with anger? Are you dealing with anxiety? Are you dealing with exam stress, perfectionism or sadness? There's so many resources there. There's webinars. There's even just an opportunity to just talk online to an expert right away. So that's jigsaw.ie, our chosen charity partner, and somebody who I'm so glad we partnered with two years ago at the start of all this, because they said, you know, we're facing into a mental health pandemic. And

that's part of the reason why we decided to hold off on this episode until we had Jen in place. And we had all your questions. The questions, Tina, have been crazy good. Really, really good. Really interesting. And I just love, I love how amazing these parents are. We're so lucky. These children are lucky because their parents are on it.

And Jen is incredible at what she does. And she's just very knowledgeable. And I feel like your questions were in safe hands today. Yeah. Now, speaking of safe hands and whether a child was in safe hands, this episode takes me back. I have been manning the fort while Tina has been upstairs isolating in our bedroom. And to say it was a challenge well basically an understanding basically i mean unfortunately i went really true with covid it really did take its hold on me and i was very

lucky the hospital sent over antivirals which are magic but i think by the time i came out of it and was able to leave the room jar that was way more wrecked than I was. And Mark is a really good boy, but he just, Jarlett finds it hard to say no to Mikey. Never wants to upset Mikey, even though Mikey doesn't really get upset, but he just wants Mikey to think he's a great lad the whole time. And Mikey had had the week of his life. Like Mikey had loving it.

Jarlett developed an eye infection. He has black circles around his eyes. i have to tell you i'm sorry to say this but we had given our amazing camp bed away to one of our friends and then obviously we you know one of the bedrooms here is darla's office which you can barely get into never mind put a camp bed down just because of the sneakers so yeah so mikey was so excited to have his daddy sleeping over in his room but we had no camp bed. So Gerard had to go out and buy one. And I obviously couldn't see it because I wasn't leaving my room trying to keep the boys safe.

And anyway, Gerard is complaining about this bed and saying how uncomfortable it is. And I was like, but it was really expensive. Like, it shouldn't be like that. And then he was like, Tina, don't worry. I figured the bed out. You actually have to lie in it a certain way. And I was like, that's weird, but OK. And I'm just hearing all this from the door so anyway first of all I figured out the bed there's a certain way you have to yeah and I'm feeling a bit guilty because obviously I'm in the

coziest bed ever and in the bedroom fine but anyway and when he's folding up the bed when I realized thankfully I started to test negative I'm still feeling a bit shit, but, you know, I can leave the room. I'm just still baffled by the fact that he didn't check this. But anyway, he notices there's a plank under the mattress that should have been taken out

because it's the headboard. And I'm just like, for six nights you slept on a plank and never thought, maybe I'll lift the mattress up and look underneath it i i'm just baffled by that but anyway it made me laugh so much yeah i mean you laughed at that more than because you're such an eejit to do that like who thinks jesus this bed's very uncomfortable

but i'm not gonna look under the mattress i looked at the legs of the bed and they but you could feel it yeah i could feel it it was like it was like a plank of wood i wasn't even surprised i just found it really funny i wasn't even surprised because it is a total jar that reagan thing to do everyone thinks jar has his shit together that he's like this really i was amazed from calm and collected lad he's a mess sorry a beautiful mess an absolute calamity of errors the first night i slept on the couch uh which was basically no sleep the second night i slept on the plank yeah then he figured out how to sleep around the plank but you know i did like i always think that these kind of tough experiences i always think there's going to be loads of comedy

in them there wasn't a huge amount of comedy in what I was going through. I got a bit of comedy out of it. I couldn't stop laughing. I looked at him and I laughed. Why do Irish women like Irish men hurting themselves so much? We like the misery of it, I think. Maybe I like the misery. Maybe she likes the misery or watching someone else go through the misery. But it did make me just appreciate, you know, what you do outside of just like your regular job in this house to keep the house running. Yeah, well, let's be totally honest.

We went vegan. We got a terrible case of veganism. Yeah. Not too long ago. And Tina has been putting together the meals on that. Let's just say we went back to eating meat fairly. There was no vegan meals delivered to my door i was like unbelievable there was no meals delivered to my door they were

shocking come on well i was told the whole way through this isolation that i'm gonna be so nice to you when i get out of here that's gonna be so i'm gonna be so nice all i've gotten since was and then you produced this so-called sandwich that's all i've gotten since was and then you produced this so-called sandwich that's all I've heard since I had to text you the whole time to go I'm starving you were constantly starving it was like feeding the rancor

I'm so hungry I think it must be a side effect of the antivirals I can't stop eating it's terrible but yeah no no veganism while jarlet was in charge but then you know mikey uh was a little star but it is appropriate again that we're talking about what we're talking about today and so many of the questions relate to the residual anxiety that comes with going through this. Yeah. And, you know, occasionally he would say things to me. Yeah.

Where you're like, oh, it's on his mind. And when your kid is, you know, apparently great and tough and brilliant, there's just these chinks of light into what is happening. Well, it was, it did unfortunately get a bit scary. And he was around for that. I went down so fast and I was so annoyed with myself too because I've had the vaccine. I was shocked. I was shocked how sick I got. My body was involved in those antivirals because they saved me. I was fully sure, God, there I go now. I'm going to be in the hospital and this is going to be our story. And poor Mikey was around for that and frightened.

So it is tough. But in a very bleak week, before we pick up the phone to go to the live line with Jen Tretchick, bleak week before we pick up the phone to go to the live line with jen trechik in a very bleak week and sometimes a lot of darkness in the news and you know just everything it's like cost of living and these huge issues taking place the antivirals for me are a real source of positivity because guys within an hour you started to feel your lungs opening i did and uh within two days i was like oh god i'm actually getting better i'm gonna be okay amazing and uh it was i think it was the food i don't know i mean i've stopped taking them now and they were so powerful that i'm actually a little bit afraid i'm like oh god i hope i hope they don't just wear

off really fast because they were so brilliant i'm so lucky a little bit afraid. I'm like, oh God, I hope they don't just wear off really fast because they were so brilliant. I'm so lucky. I know that not everyone gets them, so I am very, very grateful, but they're bloody brilliant. They have magic powers and I'm very happy to not be stuck up in my room on my own anymore.

Well, you expected to cough all the way through this. Yeah. And you didn't. I didn't. That's good. Let's go to it. It's Jan Trecek on The Live Line. That's good. Let's go to it. It's Jen Trecek on The Live Line.

Joining us now on The Live Line is Jen Trecek, occupational therapist and founder of Way Ahead Therapy. She has worked in mental health services in the UK and Ireland for over 20 years now, and she's extensive experience working with young people and parents having spent five years as a clinical manager at our chosen charity partner jigsaw.ie the national centre for youth mental health jen thank you so much for taking the time to come on the show can you tell us to start with what that five years was like and obviously the tail end of it must have been so different from the first three. Hi, Geraldine. Thanks for having me. The five years at Jigsaw was fantastic. It is and it continues to be a real privilege to work with young people and to hear their stories and hear the challenges that they face and to support them to kind of to find ways to manage themselves. And you know, it really was fantastic to see the

resilience in young people. I think that's one of the things that really struck me is how resilient young people are and given me real insight to my role as a parent as well as to what is helpful for young people and what's maybe not so helpful that we can sometimes end up doing as parents. Yeah. I mean, so many of the questions, Tina, that we get are people in that quandary of, well, what is going to help? And they're worried that they're going to do more harm than good, right? Yeah, but you know what, I've been so impressed with the parents and how awake they are to their children's um you know well-being needs it's a it seems like a really a big leap from when we were children this awareness and this observing their kids

behavior and actually really trying to figure it out is quite inspiring that must be huge jen when you see that these parents that are on it is it nearly a problem when parents are nearly too on it? I think the challenge is when parents rush to try and fix things and I get that that's completely my reaction as a parent is there's something wrong my child is not happy or there's something going on and I want to make it better and so we rush to try and solve it and sometimes that can be part of the the problem and we have to allow young people a little bit of time to work things through themselves to to figure out the next steps and we absolutely need to support that and shape that but giving them a chance and first of all just listening to the young person hearing their story kind of letting them tell you what's going on without

rolling up the sleeves straight away and kind of rushing to school to sort things out or rushing to fix things. And I think that's a real challenge for parents. And men, right? Absolutely. That's so interesting though, isn't it? So that's probably why the approach of getting the parents in without the child is very helpful then because you nearly need to steer them more than the child at the beginning of the problem. Do you think? It can be really helpful for parents just because they don't always, we don't, there's no manual when it comes to kids, right? And we don't always know straight away what the best thing is to do. when it comes to kids, right? And we don't always know straight away what the best thing is to do. So being able to take a step back and say, I have these concerns and this is what's

going on for me as a parent can be really helpful. And to have somebody to kind of put your hand on the shoulder and say, you know, it's okay, you're doing the right thing. You're listening, you know, you don't need to rush, give it a chance, give the young person a chance to kind of let you know what's going on. And then we can look at how we sort it out in the next step so absolutely it's great when parents kind of say actually i'm not sure what i'm doing here have you any advice or any suggestions on how i can manage and support my own person better but i think the really positive thing is that you're right parents want to be there they want to know what to do they want to equip themselves to be able to support their young people yeah i mean resisting the urge to be the fixer, though, right?

That's tough because when we started this show, literally the first line of it was, trying to raise your kid not to be a gobshite is really hard. And when you're going, give the child some some agency give the teenager the room to as you say activate that resiliency that you the resilience you've seen jen at time and time again can be tricky because you might not have a whole load of faith in their ability to make good decisions on that path isn't that because you're so close though as well to it as the parent? Because I always find with the children in my class and the parents I go deal with, I'm able to help them.

But when it comes to my own child, I go straight to, oh goodness, this is impacting him and his life. I go straight to panic. Whereas if it was another person's child, I would know what to do. It's you're just so close. Sorry. No. And I think the reality is they are going to make bad decisions and bad choices and,

you know, do things the way that we wouldn't necessarily want them to do them. But there's learning in that. And if you think, you know, you said we were kind of raising ourselves, perhaps, you know, parents were a little bit more hands off when we were younger. And while that isn't, you know, necessarily the best thing, it also allowed us to learn from our mistakes. You know, we got something wrong. We went, oh, God, I've really messed up here. What will I do differently next time? And so there was an element of freedom, I suppose, in that and learning and developing then our own approach. And there is a little bit of that that is necessary.

You know, we don't want them to make absolutely ruin their life mistakes, but we have to accept that our young people are going to make mistakes and that's part of what they need to do in terms of their development. Yeah. Well, the mistakes that you obviously worry about

are the ones that are going to have lasting implications, which is something I definitely look back on the 90s and think, God, what a glorious time when you could make a Hames of something in class or on the schoolyard and there would be no record. or on the schoolyard and there would be no record. Jen, the world in which these young people are operating in, there is an all-seeing eye and there is like a permanent record where it feels like you will have this here now forever. It's unerasable. The internet and cloud have documented it. That must induce so

much stress in the young people that you're meeting. It can do. And I think the difficulty is social media is so maligned and misunderstood as well. You know, it does absolutely, there can be pressure and you're right, there is that record, but it can also be really helpful. You know, we all use it in terms of our work, you know, it can be a form of communication. So we need to kind of really look at a middle ground when it comes to social media. And a key part of that is training young people, you know, helping them to navigate it safely, helping them to kind of figure out how to use it in a way that, you know, that they're aware of what they're putting out. And to be honest, I think a lot of young people are very aware of what they're putting out.

But as parents, we need to know how to use all the different platforms. We need to know what young people are on, how they work, they work how they you know and keep an eye on us you know yeah i completely agree with you there because some parents go to fear and then you know nearly make it worse because it's something that they just won't allow the child to have when really it's something the child can't really avoid so you just have to try your best to equip them you know with how it works and how to be safe and what to do and what not to do. Just like you've got to model behavior of how to interact online the way you would model manners and, you know, social graces, I think. It's a new medium for interaction.

It's not going away. It seems to be something they will have to live with. Well, this brings us to our first question, Jen, but I want you to finish that comment that you started before I jumped in there. I was just going to say

what we also need to do is make sure that we keep the lines of communication open. So if they do get in trouble with the Internet or online or, you know, something comes up that is upsetting for them, that they'll come and talk to us about it

rather than hide us because they know that they shouldn't be honest because that's the approach that we've taken. Yeah, that's so important. Which was also one of the reasons why we raised ourselves at times because we knew that fire was going to come out the top of our parents' heads if we did come to them.

Oh my goodness. Oh my God, the fear of what would happen if they found out sometimes well our parents our generation of parents really are afraid of the internet so they really but at least at least hopefully our children are have parents that kind of know it's not that scary and we just have to be careful and like jen says be open and honest and come for help it's really important well this first question isn't as uh as tough and as hard and as gut wrenching as some of the questions we've got this week jen but a nice way to start because it does relate to what we just talked about all of our questionnaires are of course anonymous that's how

honey you're rooting our kid works you submit your question we will never reveal who you are All of our questioners, of course, anonymous. That's how Honey, You're Rooting Our Kid works. You submit your question. We will never reveal who you are. So you can know in your heart that it's completely under the radar. Our first questioner says, Hi, Tina and Jarlath. As a parent of a six-year-old, I'm beginning to see how the world around him is starting to influence him. And we as parents are conscious that we can't protect him from everything. But I want to install in him an ability to see that his opinion is one that counts.

It is the one that counts and not to always want something just because someone else has it. Not so easy for a six-year-old to comprehend, which is really true. Firstly, she says, we don't use our phones around our son as we want him to see that we have his full attention unless it's necessary to call someone. We don't have an iPad in the house. He knows that the computer is for work only between work hours. However, and this is where it gets tricky, school has started to send home apps for him to use to do his maths and i would rather do maths the old-fashioned way and have one-on-one interaction with them face to face eye to eye and not with the screen am i being an old fart these there are children in his class at six years old i can't't believe this, with mobile phones.

I've told him that he does not need one for a long time. And he seems to be cool with that, which is great, obviously. Technology is a wonderful thing. But at the same time, it scares me, as I know the damage it can do to children, to adults, if it's not used minimally. I know the damage it can do to children, to adults if it's not used minimally. I've also had firsthand experience with it being used as a tool for paedophiles to contact our children who are very vulnerable. I mean, that's where your brain goes. You know, your brain does go there, doesn't it?

Yeah, and she's had a trauma. Yes, she says she used to work as a social care worker in residential homes. And obviously that's that's coloured her opinion. Any advice on how I can approach the next few years in a way that won't make my child hate me? I mean, that is the underlying thing

isn't it, Jen? That you're just like, please don't hate me. Love me. Yeah. Oh, gosh. You can hear the pressure in that letter, can't you?

She's really, really worried about the decisions she's making now for her six-year-old. Well, let's start from the beginning. Let's start with the kind of actualising a sense in himself that your opinion matters. What do you think, Tina?

We'll start with you on that. Well, you know, that's a really hard one because they want to fit in so much at that age. You're trying to, it's that whole wolf and the sheep thing, isn't it? That you want your child to be brave enough to act and think like the wolf and not just be part of the flock of the sheep. It's really tricky, especially, oh goodness, I'm so nervous. The wolf and the sheep is what you, Tina to mikey all the time yeah which do you want to be a follower or a leader yeah and trying to help your child know that there's such power

in being brave enough to make your own choice but i guess that comes with repeating and repetition and you know saying it again and again and helping him through. So, you know, listening to what is it you want to do? What is it you want to be involved in? Why are you choosing? Why are you choosing that? Is it something that makes you happy? Would you be happier in yourself if you didn't do what everyone else is doing and did what you want?

If it's something he wants to do, it's different. Jenny's six. I mean, this is the other thing. Like Tina says there, repetition's key because it's probably going to take Tilly seven to get it's different jenny's six i mean this is the other thing like tina says their repetitions key because it's probably going to take till he's seven to get it or 25 or 21 years old who knows absolutely i i mean i think of course when you're six you want to fit in with your friends you know you want to be um accepted and acceptance is really important. And it's a tricky one because there are always going to be followers and there's always going to be leaders.

And I think what Tina said there, it's about your child being comfortable with their decisions, that they're, you know, that you're teaching them what's right and wrong from your perspective. You know, how to stand up for themselves for people around them to show they care but if they want to like paw patrol because all of the other kids like paw patrol there's nothing inherently wrong with that you know i agree yeah and they'll they'll find their way but it feels like for a six-year-old that feels like there's a lot of pressure to to have to to kind of forge your own path and like no like, no, it's okay. He's still young, you know? And I think as long as he can come home and he can talk about

and have those open conversations about likes and dislikes and why you're choosing to act the way you're acting or who your friends are and what you're doing together, it's okay. I think that's okay.

You know, I think don't worry too much right now. You're doing the right thing just having those chats with him and, you know, I think don't worry too much right now. You're doing the right thing. Just having those chats with him and, you know, listening to him. And he knows when he comes home that he can say anything that that is, you know, and that his opinions are heard there. I think that's important. Yeah. And I also wonder from Charlotte reading that out there, you know, what what are the limits on screens in this house? Like, what is it the mom doesn't want him falling in line with his friends about?

Because I know for myself, because I was, you know, a Montessori background and I had all these ideas for when I became a mother and I didn't want Mikey, you know, watching too much telly or being obsessed with cartoons. And then you realize that if you take all those things away from your children, they don't have anything to talk to their friends about in the playground.

No common ground. You know, they need this common ground. You can't be too strict sometimes. There's also the danger of the forbidden fruit. You know, if I'm not allowed to have that thing, I want it even more. Yeah. Because there's something really fascinating about what we can't have. really fascinating about what we can't have. So if I can have something in moderation and I can learn from it and I can understand this, then I'm less likely to want, you know, desperately to go

behind my parents back and kind of find out what it is. So I think, you know, what is the fear and what is the worry? And I think you're right. What are my limits? But does it have to be all or nothing? Yeah, I totally agree. And I think this poor mom, while her ideals about the computer and stuff are great, it's just unworkable with the way we live, I feel at the moment because... So you're saying she is being an old fox? No, I don't.

A little bit, a little bit she is because it's not realistic to me. I mean, the phone, completely agree with that. Why would a six-year-old need a phone? I mean, who does he need to call? But I mean, the computer is so different because first of all, it's a life skill they need. And I mean, it is uttering him in the classroom if he's the only child who can't access his homework or his schoolwork. Here's the tricky thing, right?

That she's drawn these lines. Yeah. And now it's like maths is OK. You know, if you are taking a hard line on it, like you would say the rules need to be clear. Tina's always saying this, that like the kid loves clarity. But now she obviously feels like if I go, yeah, but you can do the maths app. It's like, oh, well, the dam is going to break. Then it's like, oh, well, now I can play Candy Crush. And the six year old is going to be

on Snapchat. Yeah, he's TikTok-ing his life away now. But what Jen says is so brilliant. I think when you start the rules early and you start being very clear around, you know, what your expectations are in terms of time spent online and what's okay to go online or not online, then, you know, that just becomes the child's norm. And I think as a parent, you know, for me, all of my children do have different devices, but they know that I will go on them anytime that I want and I will review all of what they're looking at at any stage. So I will look at what apps they're using. I will look at what they're messaging to their friends and all of that.

And they've known that from the time that they were allowed on the devices, that that would be part of the agreement. So I think, you know, as a parent, of course, safety is going to be your priority. And particularly if you have, you know, this view of you've worked in social care and you have this concern around who's online

and people kind of waiting then of course you have to reassure yourself around that and that's okay but doing this you know in consultation with your young person you know so they know like like tina said what are the rules here what am i allowed to do you know and how then do i navigate this safely yeah so lovely lovely stuff answers. You want to add something? Well, I actually that really I really appreciate that answer, too, because it reminds you sometimes as a parent, you forget, OK, I lead and the child will follow. They're following my lead. So I just have to let them know what's happening.

And they'll be, you know, sometimes we underestimate how much our children are just waiting for us to tell them, you know, we are coming off a week of that. Tina was isolating. We've probably mentioned this at the top of the show that Tina was isolating all last week and I mean, you definitely suffered from a lack of leadership during that week because there was a lot of daddy, I'll tell you what we're going to do next. And I'm like, yes, sir.

Charlotte was more exhausted than i was after having coronavirus i came back because i was so so afraid of infecting them i isolated completely away from them and i came back to an exhausted jarlett but a very happy mikey he got to go mad he totally did keys to Keys to the city. Okay, go easy, guys. It wasn't that bad. Come on. He doesn't run around the house in the net painting the place. It was fine.

He just thought he could turn on any TV show he wanted at any time. It's a fair point, though, because as parents, there are often two parents in the household, and they may have different views on this as well. And it's really important that you're on the same page and that you both are kind of sticking to the limits. You know, one parent says an hour max and the other parent says, I go on, you can have another 15 minutes.

That's where we're getting into really choppy waters. Absolutely. You do both need to agree and be on board and both kind of have the same um line that you're following in relation to all social media the unified front right it is so important it really is and uh just reminding you know it could be the wife that needs reminding sometimes or the mother but mostly i think in this house it's's his grown up wealthy best friend. Let's go to question number two.

OK, so this relates to, I mean, this may be related to the Unified Front, but it also relates to something that Jen and I have talked about on a previous episode of Irishman Abroad. We did an incredible episode

of I think it's a year ago now for World Mental Health Day with Blind Boy and a bunch of other contributors. And it related to anxiety. It was some of the questions that we got into that day and what your coping mechanisms are for them. Well, this questioner says, I'm going to throw a question in the ring here. My four-year-old boy loves people.

He's really social and great at activities. But we always have a problem getting him in the door of these places. I love this question so much. He seems to have anxiety to just go in, but he is absolutely grand after that. When he's in there, he's usually really good at things. He's a real overthinker. We have it with school and lots of activities. Not sure what trick to try to reassure him to get him over the threshold easier. Right now, it's just distraction. It's do it fast, but not a foolproof method.

Any tips on this? What a brilliant question. He's four. He's four years old. So, Tina, you cope with this every morning at the door, I would say, not at school. Yeah, well, it's pretty common, I think. I think Jen would agree with that at that age for children to be a little bit hesitant. And I don't know what you think, but I normally would say to the parent that maybe he needs a little bit more prep about the future activities about to do. That, you know, he might just need to know exactly what's about to happen and where he's going and what will happen when he gets there.

And then how long they will stay and when they will go. Just for a little while, he might need more information. Does he know how long long is? Like, does he have a concept of time? Well, even if it's not the amount of time just knowing the steps involved I mean you know sometimes we use visual photograph timetables for children who really struggle with what's happening next. Jen I'd love to know what what you think here and have you encountered stuff like this before? Absolutely and I I completely agree with Tina in terms of

talking it through in advance. If you think about anxiety, it's often a fear of the unknown or something bad is going to happen or I'm not sure what to expect. So therefore, I'm frightened of it. And if you go over and over, well, this is what's going to happen. This is, you know, I'm going to come and pick you up afterwards. And, you know the planning and and you're right in terms of time it doesn't necessarily mean much but the okay so we're going to get our shoes on we're going to get in the car we're going to go to this place these people are going to be there we're going to have fun like we did the last time and then we're going to go home that makes sense and you can repeat it and then your kids like kids ask questions all the

time yeah and and they repeat back to you so what we're going to do is this and they're kind of working it through in their head so that it makes sense so providing exactly the same steps repeatedly it begins to sink in and then when they know what's happening it's not so scary yeah um and reminding them as well you know do you remember the last time we did this and you loved it and it was great fun. It'll be like that again. That kind of familiarity is really important. But I think it's what is not a good option is to say, oh, you're feeling worried about it. Let's not do it. Because if we don't do it, then the kind of fear becomes a reality. It becomes even scarier because, you know, mom wouldn't have made me do it. You know, if she stopped me from doing it

because it was scary. Yeah, and if I kick up enough of a fuss, I can get out of this. Yeah, and I'm always amazed by the amount of times parents just don't even know to let their children know what's happening. Like sometimes when children

come into us in September and they're dropped off and they're frightened, they don't even know that the mom or dad hasn't taught because they just don't realize to say, and I will collect you at the end of the day. Oh my God. They think they're being put up for adoption. No.

But the poor children are just like, oh God, I've been abandoned here. And so I'm forever letting kids know, mommy always comes back at you know and teaching them that and then having to gently say to the parents just you know when you're dropping off to tell them you love them they're gonna have a good day and that you'll be back at collection time to get them so that they don't need to worry from me just take him to a place and just drop him down find your own way home but let's extend it forward a little bit jen because

it's not just four-year-olds that experience this i mean let's face it we know grown-ups who don't show at parties or are like you can't rely on that person they're never going to show up because they have a social anxiety about putting themselves in new environments. You must come across this all the way up through childhood and teenage years. Absolutely. And it can sometimes feel like it comes out of nowhere as well. You know, a lot of my young people who are maybe starting in secondary school

and they've been very confident and, you know, very sociable and really enjoyed primary school. And then the leap and the change and the uncertainty can just trigger that anxiety response. And what I find sometimes as young people get older, they don't understand what it is that they're feeling. They feel a bit sick or they feel a little bit worried or they're worried about saying the wrong thing, but they don't know

the language around it. So they don't know that it's anxiety and why they have these feelings. So kind of explaining it to young people can be really helpful. You know, that feeling in your stomach, that's anxiety. It's not something to be scared of. It's a response that we have that is there to protect us. It's an indicator that you just need to pay a little bit of attention to what's going on. But it doesn't mean that there's something inherently wrong. And just kind of talking that through, helping people understand what anxiety is, some very practical techniques to manage it. And we'll be familiar with kind of breathing and kind of relaxation to help to control the physical symptoms and then continuing to do the things despite the anxiety. I love that.

And then it will begin to reduce the more we do it um but absolutely it can kind of come up and it can appear at any stage and you know I think sometimes that's where as parents we're kind of surprised or not sure what's going on because it seems to have come out of nowhere but kind of recognizing it for what it is and and naming it can be really helpful yeah i love that when you say that you know do keeping going despite the anxiety and helping yourself get through it you know it's it's obviously this is what sonia o'sullivan and i discussed on the running podcast last week because you know for there is a crossover here because pre-race

jitters was this was the episode and so much of what you're saying here applies to that too that thing of your feeling isn't who you are yeah like you're you're probably anxious before the thing as a reflection of how well you wanted to go, that it matters or that you're excited about the prospect. And now that mightn't be what it feels like when you want to get sick. is articulating that to a youngster done using that kind of language, Jen, or how do you sit them down and kind of explain what is kind of a complicated concept? It is a little bit complicated. And I think you really need to think about the age of the young person and the language you use that's appropriate. So, you know, even for a four-year-old or a six-year-old, they'll know that the feeling of butterflies in their stomach, and sometimes that can be a nice feeling, and sometimes it's not such a nice feeling.

But just being able to say that that's what I feel a little bit sick in my stomach, and maybe that that's because I'm a bit worried about something or, you know, I'm a little bit scared. And I think as adults, we can kind of role model that language. You know, we can let them know, you know, sometimes I feel a bit scared when I'm doing something new. But then I remember that it's a good thing and I'm going to feel happy afterwards. And I'm going to focus on that feeling afterwards. So talking about our own feelings, putting names. There's a saying, a nice saying, you've got to name it to tame it.

And for younger kids if they can put a language on what they're feeling oh i'm feeling happy i'm feeling worried i'm feeling sad that can really help them to understand and then begin to manage those emotions yeah because i feel like and i don't know if you feel this too that it's so important to help the child who's this young work through it and push through it or otherwise it does become a learned behavior and it does become a habit behavior that they bring with them and then you know even if they move on for a while sometimes it does raise its head again in their teenage or adult life because it's something they they did they consolidated as a behavior when they were little. And that, obviously, Jen, is where the panic that we can sense in some of the messages

comes from, is to go back to the thing of, you don't want this to become an ongoing thing that they carry with them for the rest of their life. And I really get this from our next questioner who, you know, it's essentially the same question, except bundled up in a six-year-old going to Irish dancing. She says she loves the show. Of course, everyone does. She's very shy. She says, my question relates to my amazing six-year-old daughter.

She's very shy in social settings to the point where she won't let go of my hand or speak to anyone outside of our home or immediate family. She's had a difficult few years, finishing Montessori early when the pandemic hit, then in and out of school because of COVID, homeschooling. She is becoming a little more confident in school now. But she loves being at home and is very comfortable sharing her opinions, etc. Obviously, like I've heard this a bunch of times like from different people this wanting to be at home all the time most recently i enrolled her in irish dancing which is her first activity outside school ever she was very upset when we

got there and didn't want to participate i think she she wants to do it, but her anxiety is holding her back. And the other issue is parents are asked to wait outside during the class, which just isn't helping. I'm not sure if I should just persist with the Irish dancing in the hope she will work through the fear, or if it's too much, just wait until she's ready. I don't want to cause more harm here, but if I don't push her to do it, then I'm afraid, like Tina said, that she won't do anything. I'm sure I'm not the only one in this situation. Well, I think we've proven you're definitely not the only one in this situation as lots of our activities are starting up again after two years. So there must be other parents in the same boat.

There definitely is. But what do you say, Jen, to this particular situation? Definitely she won't be on her own with this. And kids this young have, you know, half their lives have been at home and the pandemic. So they haven't necessarily had chances to try out these things. What I'd always kind of look at is how to grade it and build things up gradually. So, you know, I would maybe speak to the teacher and see, is there the option to, you know, just stay for the first half an hour or five minutes and kind of gradually reduce that so that, you know, the child has got a little bit

of confidence that mom's there. And then once she's used to the class and what the process is and how it works, then mom can take a step back. And I would hope that teachers might be open to that, you know, and maybe Tina, you would have more of a sense of that. But it is then building up the confidence to allow her to do that. Familiarity, again, are there people in the class maybe that she knows or that you could develop links with outside of the class? So there's a child that she invites them to home. They get to know each other in the home environment

where this child is a little bit more comfortable and then they can go together since she has got a familiar face. As a parent, you can kind of set up these social situations for your kids and build their can't cope with this, that's not going to help. But you don't want her to feel that she can't get there. So, you know, setting out a plan for, you know, how are you going to build up her confidence gradually? And, you know, tell your six-year-old that this is what you're doing. You know, I really don't want you to miss out on this class. It's great fun. The other person, Molly, loves doing this class. You know, why don't you have a little time together with Molly and then we'll go together to the class. And then, you know, I'm just outside the door there. I'm watching you,

you know, but I know that you can do it and that you'll enjoy doing it. So instilling confidence in her that she will be able to do it, I think is important. doing it so instilling confidence in her that she will be able to do it I think is important. Yeah I think that's so that's so right and I also think that you know if this child is this distressed that the teacher should be I know she probably has these rules in place because of Covid but if you have a child that's that needs their mom that much you need to kind of make allowances because some children like you say just need that little bit of time until they feel safe where they know their mom is by their side but if she's just outside the door and the teacher is a bit sticky about the rules hopefully the teacher just bringing her

to the door a few times to say look mommy's still there might reassure her it's so hard we're also dealing with irish dancing teachers here yeah there's so i'm still afraid of my irish dancing teacher and i'm a grown-up there's a there's a separate issue here a separate podcast i get a whiff though that the mom is also very anxious in this that i feel like maybe she needs to be a little careful that she's not putting her own anxiety on her child because after being through this pandemic it is very hard to let your child go off to a setting that you can't be in and maybe I don't know Jen maybe I'm wrong but I just got a little bit of a sense that the mom is also very anxious

and that's probably not helping the little girl because children are so intuitive that she probably feels it you know mommy's scared too you know yeah and if if she has a sense that mom's scared then that kind of means that there's a reason to be scared so absolutely mom needs to be minding her own anxieties breathing through us yeah and and and maybe even thinking about some little um indicator that she can you know give her her six-year-old to hold on to, to remember that mom's just, she's there and she's going to come back, you know, maybe a little friendship bracelet or something she can put in her pocket that, you know, when she touches that, that's a

reminder that mom's just outside the door and has, you know, confidence in you and you'll be fine. I've seen that work too. I've seen that really work in the very young children. Even, you know, some, i have had mothers in my class who write a little heart on the child's arms as a child can just look at that and know okay my mom it's okay mommy thinks this is safe to do i'm safe they just want to feel safe don't they like i mean we've it's just jess foster q last night at the return of the Crack show said, I don't think it's natural to be scared for two years. It's so true. It's so true that we're looking at the ripples on the water,

the residual impact of that kind of fear being in the house. Well, we've told them it's frightening and scary to go anywhere, and now we're expecting them to be okay on their own. You know, so we have to all be gentle with our children. It's hard, though, isn't it? You guys are amazing. I'm just here along for the ride. It's so good to be doing another episode of Honey, You're Running Your Kid.

We're joined today by Jen Trecek, just to remind you. And we're going to get to our last question and then hopefully get some closing words from you, Jen. This questioner says, I'll have to prioritise all my problems, but the big one at the moment would be my daughter is doing the leaving. Already stressful. I got stressed out just reading the word leaving cert there. Flashback. She is a hard worker and she is expecting good results.

She does suffer from panic attacks and anxiety. Not too often, thank God. But since she went back to school after Christmas, all they are talking about is what will happen with the exams. Will they go ahead? Will there be predictive grades, et cetera, et cetera? Their teachers will have tried telling them to stay off the news sites. But it's an all girls school. So, of course, it's all that's going to be discussed at school and on social media.

How can I help her manage her anxiety during this really uncertain time? Big question. But I doubt again that it's the first time Jen's heard it. Oh my goodness. The group this year doing Leaving Cert have had such a rough ride. And, you know, a lot of them

have never done any exams, so they don't really know what to expect. They didn't do the junior certs. There is all of that uncertainty that's there and that pressure. And it's so hard not to get caught up in speculation and the what ifs and all of that. And I mean, all you can do is say you need to take a step back and focus on the knowns, not the unknowns. And the knowns are, you know, the work that you do, that you're putting in, who you surround yourself with, who you're listening to, how you're grounding yourself at home, the study that you're doing. Those are the things that you can control. happens with the leaving cert whether there's predicted grades whether there's um you know they change the entry requirements for the cao none of that is within your control so speculating is just taking energy away it's but i i really appreciate how hard it is to do that how hard it is to keep focused on on what you what is within your control. But that is great advice. Super advice. Yeah, even for me.

I'm only going to play devil's advocate here, Jen, and push back a tiny bit, right? Because the only way I could study for the Leaving Cert was knowing where the goalposts were. I couldn't study in the blackness. I needed to know, first of all, because I always gambled on what was coming up. I was a tipster. The amount of chat in my school around, you know, the kind of bookies taking bets on what was coming up on this paper.

That is anxiety inducing. I certainly would have been like, what the heck am I meant to study now? Because I'm definitely not studying everything. fact am i meant to study now because i'm definitely not studying everything yes saying control the controllables think about what's within your remit it is a powerful sentence but sometimes that opens up a vastness that can probably be triggering for this girl it can feel huge absolutely and then it's interesting the sense of i'm not doing all of the study, I'm just doing, you know, and hedging your bets. And of course, we all did that. And it may not pay off. And I think it's okay. You know, I think there's so much pressure to say you've got to get

into college, as soon as you've finished your leaving cert, then you get into college and you study for four years. And that's the only route. And I don't know whether the pandemic has helped with this, but there are so many other options that we need to be able to take, you know, to look at alternatives and not kind of view the Leaving Cert and how I do as being the most important thing in the world, which it can feel like at the time. I think it's very hard when you've got a teenager in Leaving Cert to say that or to hear it and to be honest they're probably not going to.

There's probably very little that you can say that is going to reassure them. So then I think as a parent what you just need to do is focus on things like making sure they're well fed, making sure that they're getting sleep, putting the books down, reassuring them that you are, you know, that you know that they've done their best and that you're happy regardless of the outcome, that you're proud of them. All of those basics that you can do as a parent are really, really important to focus on. But I know speaking to teenagers and people who've gone through the Leaving Search, they will tell me there was nothing anybody could have said in the moment that would have helped. will tell me there was nothing anybody could have said in the moment that would have helped so take that pressure off of the parents you know you don't don't get into the um in my day or it's

not you know don't go back over you know what worked or didn't work for you they're forging their own path but focus on the basics focus on making sure that they're they're well fed that they're nourished that they're sleeping that they're you know they have what they need and that's maybe the best that you can do in what and i'm just accepting it's going to be a really really tough year focus on the basics it's brilliant yeah but you know again jen really quick right to me and i am doing in my day right but the thing that I feel worst for these kids is that my favourite part of the day was getting home, closing the door. And that was behind me. I mean, they don't get to do that. They don't get a break from the social interaction. And as I say, the bookies chat over what's coming up.

say the bookies chat over what's coming up is there an argument for this mom saying x hour phone goes off that if your phone can't go to bed with you and you know prior to sleep there needs to be an hour of just a suspug where the breath is allowed to be taken. I would completely agree with that. And I think that's where, you know, parents do have control over phones and internets in the house. And I would always say that hour before bed, you know, the way when you have small kids, you have a bedtime routine and you kind of do bath and you do pajamas and you read and you kind of get them prepared to go to sleep. And that routine is really important for all of us and particularly for teenagers where sleep is so important. And, you know, I'll have teenagers who say, oh, I'm working through the night because I have to for the exams.

I'll say much of your learning gets, you know, it's the stage four of sleep when you are in the deeper stages of sleep. That's where the thoughts get laid down and the learning actually, you know, has an impact. So sleep is really, really important for exams and for learning. And as parents, if we can support them to have that wind down routine, to go to bed at a reasonable hour, to get proper quality sleep throughout the night. That's going to have a huge impact on how well they do in the exams. The cramming all night is not going to have any positive outcome. And the, you know, as you say, surrounding yourself with people who are stressed and being online is not going to have a positive outcome. So I completely agree with you. An hour before bed, it all off and and look at how you wind down so it's a coupling nearly of the parents

focusing on the basics and then as a parent educating your child about the basics but that's really good i really like that jen it's been an absolute pleasure to have you on i hope you'll come back uh to honey you're reading our kid uh if people want to find you if people are like i like the sound of this lady i want more of this what's the best way to make contact with you wayaheadtherapy.ie and all of my contact details are on there i'm on all different social medias the virtues of social media are there as well and i would be more than happy to speak to anyone i'll link it all in the info here. But thanks again, Jen Trachek.

We'll talk to you soon. Thanks so much. Thank you. So there you have it. That's Jen Trachek and our first guest on the show. And what an unbelievable guest. She just smashed every single question

and just so much information and so much more never nothing was too big nothing was too small the two you work together as a team i should just get out of the way and let you do the podcast together i was so impressed with her her clarity her understanding of children from all ages her understanding of parents i would absolutely recommend her to anybody who was struggling to get in touch with her. Yeah. So her link is going to be in the bio. The name of her company is Way Ahead Therapy. And that's what, you know, that's what 20 years of experience gets you.

I do want to say a massive thanks to our questioners, people that submitted questions of it to Honey, you are ruining our kid at gmail.com. And you know what? People have been coming back to us. And, you know know i was really happy to hear that the toilet training really yeah working and i was really excited about that but um please if if what we you know said doesn't help come back we'll try again because there's multiple answers right that that's the thing and also if you found an answer there's the first cough of the show there too the if you found an answer that you think lads you need to know about this i mean for example the answer that we found during lockdown to mikey having you know a little

having a little bit of difficulty with maths was this Math Antics YouTube channel, which like has been a game changer for a boy who was really down on himself about his maths. Yeah. This thing, along with you, Tina, all credit, credit where credit is due. No credit to me. I couldn't understand the maths. They changed maths. Why would you change maths? I was like, what?

That's not how I did it. I didn't even understand maths at the time. And reasoning. Why did I have to do so much reasoning? Reasoning makes no sense. Reasoning is, you know, it's like facts and research. I'm not interested. Look, thank you so much for listening.

Please spread the word. If you enjoy this podcast, the only way it can keep going is through your support and people like you. Maybe you know someone that would benefit from this. maybe you know someone that would listen to this and go i've got a question get in touch and pass it on that's the way this works we've no marketing budget whatsoever it's just about word of mouth and you continuing to be a proud supporter of irishman abroad podcast so thank you so much and tina thank you so much i'm loving it and i love that all everyone who's submitting questions knows no judgment here we're just we're all just trying our best

trying our best not to raise gobshites yeah raising your kids not to be gobshites is not easy email your parenting questions situations stories or problems to honey you areourkid at gmail.com. Anonymity is guaranteed.