Honey You're Ruining Our Kid - When Kids Refuse To Listen, The "Rager" & The Obsessive Child - HYROK S3E2

Episode Date: September 23, 2024

The first few weeks back at school are hard enough without your child refusing to wear shoes! What do you do when your kid flatly refuses to something as basic as footwear? If you have ever come face to face with the determination of a 4 year old, you will know that ultra marathon runners look like big softies compared to them. Tina knows how to defuse and rewire these situations. In her 20 years working with kids with severe behavioural issues, she has seen the shoe issue over and over again. Today she explains the key strategies that she has seen work with stubborn kids.The red mist rage of an otherwise good kid can be hard to comprehend. Spitting, punching, screaming and name calling for extended periods can leave any parent wondering, "Where did I go wrong?" It's not your fault. In a lot of cases, something else is happening with the rage filled kid. Tina walks us through the steps towards talking them off the ledge and the calm needed to observe where this emotion is coming from.Finally, an email comes in from a mother whose daughter is mourning the loss of an older friend. She hasn't passed away. She just doesn't get to see her any more. The absence has revealed what some might consider an obsession. What do you do if your kid has developed an unhealthy reliance on one friend or infatuation with another person? It's a very tough challenge to face as a parent and Tina admits, it's a tough one to handle as an educator. All behaviours can be changed. This one really is an eye opening episode. There's also a fun extra section where we look a bit deeper into figuring out if something is happening at school. How do we get our kids to open up to us about their life beyond the school drop off. The tip Tina has on this are going to help a lot of people fretting over the happiness of their kids on the playground. www.patreon.com/irishmanabroad is the only place to hear the whole episode each week and to support the continued creation of this show. Email [e-mail] with your issues, problems or life hacks for kids of all ages. Come see Jarlath on tour www.jigser.com/gigs

It's only a Rooney R kid season 3 episode 2 we are back Tina is here Tina hello hello and we are back in our office back in our office we're no longer in the Goldland studio this is where we're going to be filming and recording everything and this is where Tina sits at her desk and gets the emails in and frets. She puts her head in her hands. I do. And she gets so stressed out. Some of the questions you guys have been submitting are unbelievable. And we're going to deal with three of them here today.

But first, let's acknowledge that the novelty of going back to school is worn off no matter what age your kids are. A lot of parents struggling out there. Loads of photos taken week one. Very few photos taken week two. As it does. You as a big man for taking the photos of day two. We have a photo of Mikey crying at his desk. And yeah, you blame him. I remember shouting at you, stop taking pictures of him.

He's upset. It's a great photo. The acknowledgement. Well, given how much he actually enjoys school now, but school refusal, that's the exception. School refusal. School refusal is a massive problem. I just found a reel here about how our parents spoke to us versus how our parents talk to our kids.

Yeah, we were really laughing about the completely... Night and day. Dark side of the moon. Like, you don't want to go to school? Well, tough shit. You're going. You're going sick. Oh, isn't that convenient, isn't it? And yet you will hear grandparents going to death to go to school every day.

I think it's a bit much for them. I think he's a bit tired for school today to keep him at home. Let him have day. Is there anything worse than when the people you need to help you out are undermining you, undermine everything you're doing? If he doesn't want to eat his dinner, he doesn't have to. You don't have to, you're a bit low. You're like, hmm.

I wasn't allowed to leave the table until my plate was empty. Oh, my God. That was the whole thing. Kids starving in Africa. It's a fair point. Yeah. Everyone did say, well, why don't you send them the food? It never worked out well. Some of the dinners we had to eat as well. I mean, I ate liver way too much as a kid. You were chased up the stairs a couple of times.

You had the same stairs as me and then you could get the hand through the steps. Yeah, those were all like valid chases though. I had been quite cheeky. Hina was revealing to me what a cheeky little girl she was. Incredibly expectations we have of our kids. Maybe we're just repeating the cycle again. I'd already forgotten. I was saying to Gerard that like, I'm always blown away by how well behaved our child is

and how he never thinks to do certain things. And I'm like, is that because he's an only child? Do you need siblings to like egg each other on? And I was saying that I absolutely, from the ages of maybe two till 10, that's a solid eight years, used to make bedtime a misery for my parents. I would go to bed, wait to hear them close the sit-room door, know they were relaxing, tip toe down, hit her on the head. Stick your head in the door and go hello.

Get chased up the stairs into the bed, wait for them to settle again and I go. My thing was to tiptoe down the stairs, sneak in behind the couch and nestle myself in such a position that I could watch the TV without them even knowing that I'm there. I definitely did that as well. And backwards out, back out when I realized Dallas is getting a bit too sexy. Back up the stairs and then they'd hear me going up the stairs and then I was rumbled. Always got caught. You always got caught. I know that must have been disheartening for a lot of you to hear Tina say, sometimes I'm just blown away by how well behaved our kid is.

Sometimes I worry about how well behaved he is. She means. She can mean. Compared to me. The shit we were getting up to, you know, I kicked my little lad is just like yours. They are all pushing the boundaries. Yes, of course. What's OK? But Mikey's never kicked me up the arse.

I definitely kicked my arse. Your mom. Up the arse. I definitely... You kicked your mom? Up the arse. Up the butt. Yeah, I did. Shout out to Noreen. Yeah, my poor mummy is not well at the moment. He's not well at the moment.

Been a very stressful time. Very stressful time. It does bring up that question of when you're navigating that kind of stress with your kid or you're not actually aware, like I was trying to explain to you last night. I think he's a lot more stressed out of it. Oh, he's very stressed out. This is one of his favourite people. He's really unwell.

I have to come back to the kicking up the butt though. Yes, that was I was I was a karate kid. What age were you? Kevin? She asked me to demonstrate a kick. She just turned around as I was seeing it. I didn't know. No, no, no, no, no.

She was bending down. She showed me one of your kicks. One moment. Let me get something out of this bottom cupboard. Now, Tina. I definitely ran up the stairs that day and I got caught through the hand through the stairs. She turned around. You launched a kick up her arse.

I did. But I was showing my karate moves. Bishop Brennan. the stairs. She turned around and you launched to kick up her arse. I did. But I was showing my karate moves. My poor mommy is so unwell at the moment. It's awful. And our son is, you know, you think, you know, I had to talk to your kids. But when it's your own kid, it's always so hard. Yeah. Well, a shout out to anybody who has an illness in the family where you're trying to explain it in terms that doesn't

frighten the shit out of your kid. And that like it's a, it's a tricky one to navigate. Maybe if you want to email in a honey, you're really a kid at gmail.com your experience of this, because certainly it's below the surface with them. Yeah. And you think if I'm sorry for talking over you, you think if you're telling them everything, I just nodded. I'm so for talking over you, you think if you're telling them everything. I just nodded, I'm so used to it, it's okay.

Like I always think if we keep telling them the truth, there's safety in knowing the truth. But I think at the moment the truth is just overwhelming. So it's like, but anyway, we'll get through it. We'll get through it, you know. All I know about the Roland ladies is that they are brick gig houses. Oh, she's a heresy. But you, Tina, obviously have your own health issues. And I've never seen stoicism like,

I have a pain in my stomach. And I'm like, Tina, I think I'm not going to record the podcast because I ate cheesy chips. Oh, I love cheesy chips. Cheesy chips. We actually were just talking about how much these restaurants are wasting on advertising and signage. Literally, if they put a sign on a cardboard piece

that just said cheese chips, Tina B all in, pull in the car. That's where we're going for. Yeah, because we were in the car yesterday on the way up to Belfast, Charlie. Got his American visa. Coming to America just like Eddie Murphy and his ancestors before him. We're so excited. And there was a sign saying chip factory. And I was like, get me in there.

And then I asked, yeah, after it, I was like, that's the worst name. But it got me. I was sold. I was like, chip factory. You pictured yourself at the end of a conveyor belt, like Homer Simpson in hell. Yeah. Having them fed into your mouth. I lying there while they came off the conveyor belt. It was happiness. If you guys have a question for the podcast, you get full anonymity, of course, and the benefit of 20 years of experience from Tina here, whose education,

experience in education, early learning, severe behaviours is endless. Like literally there's nothing you can throw at her. She hasn't seen. So we know there really isn't. But you're like there's so many emails have to get back to. Obviously. Well, we'll talk about all of those. If you want to hear the whole episode, you know where you need to be. It's patreon.com forward Irish man abroad.

Go ahead. But I love before we came on, you were doing an impression of how our parents used to talk to us and it was very funny. Like, hey, we say to our kids, you know, now I'm going to talk to you and tell you what's happening. They would say, you were like, get the f*** in here, you little bollocks. Yeah, I didn't get a lot of I didn't get called a little bollocks a lot of the time, but I do remember voices being raised and

yeah, like I don't think I called a little. You were the one who just said it. I'm just repeating what you said. No, I think it was more, it was just blunt. It was like, that's how it is. Deal with it. Whereas we're so down the rabbit hole of reasoning with these kids. And sometimes they just need to know, like said to said to him last night it's

like this is my job I'm doing my job let me do it. Well yeah there's a way though of being strict and reasonable at the same time and sometimes when you're stressed out it's hard to reach there. So what have you got for us this week Tina? Hey we have a very very feisty three-year-old. Feisty? Feisty,. Out of control baby child. Of the richer. Youngest. OK. Much like yourself. Yeah, just like me. Youngest kids, always a problem. Yeah. And the last one.

And the last one is obsession. The child is obsessed with another child. I was obsessed with things as a kid. I can definitely relate to that one. Were you obsessed with another kid? No. Basketball. OK, that's normal enough to write. Let's get to it. Let's go.

This email reminds me of that I won on a writer clip that you were telling me about during the week. Oh, I love that. Show me this clip of Winona Ryder on the red carpet. And paparazzi screaming at her to take her glasses off. And she's like, I want my glasses off. And a younger actor was like, don't have to and she's like I want my glasses off and a young girl actor was like I don't have to it's like kids have that moment. Yeah, it's like they see a kid going no and

Then they're like, holy flip. Oh this happens all the time. I'm just saying no I'm gonna try it out at home. I'm gonna give this a go. That's some new materials try out mom I Tina and Jarda. Thank you so much for the podcast and all the helpful advice. I have a question. I would really be grateful you could help me with a brilliant, feisty, strong willed little girl.

It's the feisty girl Tina mentioned. I know she loves them. Who is two and a half going on three. She's just realized she can say no to things such as putting on her shoes. And when I need to drop her off at nursery, this is a nightmare.

She is at an age where she is too old for me to just put her clothes on her against her will and too young, really, for a reasoned discussion. I have tried lots of tactics with varying success. What would you suggest if she point blank refuses to put her shoes on or leave the house when I need to drop her off school and get to work in the morning? Can you imagine the stress of this? It's so stressful.

But I mean, you find it cute, but everyone listening to this is going, lose my shit. Yeah. I would just be like, put the fucking shoes on. I would actually force them on myself. Oh, Jarrod, you would not. You are such a baby. I'd actually force them on myself.

Jarrod would. What, in my case? Jarrod is such a little gentle. I was such a softie when it came to this. It's like he doesn't want to wear the shoes. You made parenting so hard. It's like when he cried, it was like part of me crying. But our name of our podcast is from a phrase I used to say to you all the time.

We'd be like, honey, you're ruining our kid. Did you say that to me? All the time. Didn't hear. Too busy ruining our kid. But like we had this in season one. Yes. And I will never, just to preface what's coming, I will never forget the tears that flowed

when this emailer in season one emailed you with the success. And the photos. And the photos. Sweet. And this is very similar actually. So Tina knows how to fix this. Well, I can't remember the exact advice. My father gave that other person, but I know what I would, what my good tells me. Okay.

First of all, she's getting way too much attention. And of course she is because you're stressed out and she's catching you at the worst moments where you need her to play ball. So solutions. Here you go. Here's what I would do. You choose, you offer choices. Right.

Two. That's it. Now, if you can't like, so she's getting changed in the morning. You have two outfits in your hands. Which one do you want to wear? You've got to be very clear. Don't say anything else because she sounds really clever and she might go and wear that top with that skirt.

No, that's a bit one or two options. Yeah. So that'll rock stars these kids. But if you think that's too much power for her, what you do is you're like, okay, allow her to be independent. She's dying for it. She wants to make her own choices. Only have two options in the cupboard.

Tell her she can choose one of the options in the cupboard. Off you go. So when you say only have two options in the cupboard, take all the clothes out of the cupboard. Yeah. What? You have to. Like, or you can have one drawer that she goes to.

Because you know well that she's going to like, I want to wear this Bolero jacket with these pants. Yeah, but like, fair enough. you know, she's dressing herself. That's fine. But within reason. But if you need her to put on a particular thing, you've got to have the choice, even if it's the exact same piece of clothes. What do you say about the missing clothes? She'll say anything. She won't ask.

My clothes gone. You have to lead us. You have to be like, these are your clothes for just the morning. Which one do you want to wear? Off you go. You know, so like I always thought that that just make life simpler. You know, everything has to be choices, because with a choice, she still feels like she's in charge.

It's in the box. Really, you're in charge. You've controlled the choice. OK, so then what? So, yeah, that with the clothes, I think that should work. Some people actually choose it before they go to bed. But that will get her to put her own shoes on. Her shoes and like, well, again, it needs to be a choice. It needs to be which shoes you want to wear.

Yeah. Or you chose these. You can put them on or I'm going to put them. Right. You have a timer and say, you have this much time to put them on yourself. If you haven't done that, Mommy has to put them. Also, don't- But what if she says, but uh, you, I don't wanna wear them? Well then you have to explain to her how. I understand you don't wanna wear your shoes.

I'm sorry you don't wanna wear your shoes. Unfortunately, we have to wear shoes outside because there's dangerous things on the ground and they will go into your feet. And Mommy's job is to keep you safe. So I need you to wear your shoes. You know, and also you can just bring the shoes to nursery. Now getting her into nursery, if it's tricky, she needs a distraction. So she needs to bring something and she needs to have a job going into nursery. She needs to have a book that she's bringing in for storytime. But it sounds like she's no problem going to nursery.

No, she just said she refuses to go into nursery. But I thought that it was the shoes that it was just the shoes that are the problem. No, she said that she sometimes refuses to go into nursery. Okay, right. So she is two and a half and she has just realized she could say no to things. So just putting on her shoes. I need to drop it to a nursery. She's at an age where she's too old for me.

She's just put the clothes on her. Too young to have a reason to discussion. It's just about the shoes. She point blank refuses to put the shoes on or leave the house. Right. So it is actually refusing to leave the house. So she just needs a job. She needs to feel important.

She needs to like you can even have her choose a flower on the way to school. I got it. So the job, right, when we enlist the help was always your tip. Enlist the help of these people that you're paying. Yeah, get the teacher. The job needs to involve the garden or wherever it is that, you know, where you actually, you really need shoes on to do the job. So if you're like, you're going to go to nursery and they have that great job for you, it makes you the most important person in the school. No, that's way too much. She's already power mad.

She doesn't need to feel like she's more powerful. Like that's what I mean about not talking too much to your kid when you're trying to get them to do something. You've just opened up so many negotiations. She needs to just say, here are your outfits for today. Which one do you want to wear? Leave the room. Get out of there.

Leave him on the floor. Let her choose. She's old enough to dress herself. She's saying she can't have a reason discussion, but she can, but there's no point, you know, like save that for later when she's actually doing what she's told. With the shoes, again, be like, I left shoes at the bottom of the stairs or by the door, go pick the ones you want to put on. You know, and if she doesn't want to put them on, just explain to her, you go, I can what sometimes I don't want to wear shoes either. And then I remember outside is

dangerous. Definitely don't want to get a cut on my foot. Have you ever hurt your foot before? It's not a nice feeling. Let's put our shoes on. Their job is to protect our feet. You're confident this will work? I think it will. You're not telling me I'm confident.

You look like you know from having done this. Well, I know that age is very tricky. They're into their order. They have decided what that order is. Every little thing will upset their order because they have their own internal idea of how the world should work. And they're like, that's not how I want to do it. You know, what a visual schedule is good. I guess she could have them by the door.

Yeah. For tick off what I've got. She could have face wash teeth brushed. Yeah. Do my way. Pants. Let my wee pants socks. Let's just keep it. She's two and a half. Let's just keep it to dressed shoes.

Yeah, but I mean, if it's a visual schedule where it breaks down, I like the if this kids into order, they'll want the tick in each box. All kids are in order and you don't want to take in each box. What you need to do there is just a photo of the wardrobe, a photo of the pair of shoes, a photo of the front door. And when she does each one, she takes it off, puts it in a little basket. Off she goes. She's completed her tasks. Off she goes to school. Okay, well, what has been the most difficult of these that you've seen? Getting a child into a classroom. difficult of these that you've seen? Getting a child into a classroom.

Right. And when that's happening, there's a big problem, a lot of big problem. We started the show talking about school refusal. When you're the teacher. It's normally the mother's fault. I know that's so controversial to say that, and I'm not saying it's this mother's fault. Yeah. But there's normally something you're doing that the child is enjoying more than going into that classroom. And I mean, of course they don't want to leave you.

You're their favorite person, but you have to lead it. You have to make it. Like I have so many mothers through the years, dads don't tend to do it. Dads actually do really good drop-offs overall. You know, there's always the odd, softie, but dads are very much like, in you go, school time. See you later. But it's the mom that's going, I just need to give him one more kiss or I want to just check that he's OK because because you know what? Most moms have words with their kids in the morning and their kid goes in the door and they feel awful. They're like, I'm not going to see that kid for hours.

And I just told him he was a little bollocks five minutes ago. Jared doesn't like he's not. I don't think they're calm. Well, I've never called Mikey little bollocks five minutes ago. Jared doesn't like he's no, I don't think they were calling them. Well, I've never called Mikey little bollocks, but you know what I mean? There's there's been negative words and they feel bad and they want to come in and give their child a hug and let them know that they love them. Yeah. But the question you raised for me that was game changing on this one was like,

is this for me or is this for them? Well, that's such an important question to ask in this moment. Who is this for? Is this for me or for them? Yeah, am I hanging around the gate of the school in case they cry for me? Honestly, like, I'm not saying again that this mom is doing that. So many moms might drop off so hard for their kids because your kid feels it. They're like, why is my mom worried? This is scary.

She must be worried about something. Why is she afraid of this place? I'm not going in here if she's afraid. Why does this place make my mom sad? But if there's total confidence in this being the right place to be. It has to be words like, in you go, have a great day, see you later. Go. Vanish.

That's it. No hanging around at the window to wave in. Have you ever had kids that don't want to leave? Leave school? Yeah, all the time. But mostly it's for the same reason. They just want to get that attention of the parent to like get them out. I remember the last time we had this shoes issue that I raised.

Is it possible the shoes are the issue? The actual shoes? I'm sure I'm probably raising a tactic. I think that lady went shoe shopping and allowed her to choose her shoes. Like your memory is incredible. This is why I get really flustered when I meet listeners, which is always amazing when someone comes up. Cause you forget.

Cause I can't remember what I said. I'm like, ah, I go into straight panic, but that person was so special. Like she sent me a video of her in the shoes and I happy she was. And honestly, all that really happened there was that that mom believed more in saying something and following true. You know, I mean what I say. These are your outfits, choose one. That's it.

No other negotiations are happening here. Why offer the choice? Because it's fair. The child should get to choose what they want to wear. But it has to be controlled choice this way. I have to say I'm more excited about question number two than maybe any question I've ever had. I know. It's a very busy question. Strap in guys. Things are about to get real.

I haven't got back to any of these fans yet. Like it's been so crazy. You're getting back to them now on the bleeding podcast. Oh yeah, but I owe them an email. Thank you guys for emailing in. Honey, you're ruining our kid at gmail.com is the way to get in touch. Of course, you will as always remain anonymous, just like this list here says, I love the podcast.

I'm going to get straight to it. We have three kids, nine, seven and four. Aye. It's the youngest guy that I'm getting in touch about though. Putting it bluntly, he is driving us mental. Pushing boundaries, fighting with us, his siblings, cousins, other kids, and his shadow. Everything is a battle. We've put lots of little strategies in place.

Smiley face chart for when we catch him doing something positive. I love that. Catch him like that's the rarity. But then we got some doing a good thing. But that's what we always say. Like try and catch the. Yeah, jump in. It's not restricted to specific things.

Lots of warnings for when there are transitions, which is going somewhere else, I guess, you get when and then all the time, which is a big thing in season two of this podcast, trying to meet his fury with Cam. That's hard. Always easy. And I'll admit that at times I've met his fury with my own fury. Well, that's, that's really hard not to do, you know. Uh, nothing's working.

He is constantly looking for attention, especially when I'm giving attention to his brother, even though I do one to one time with him every flippin' day. But the thing that really has us stumped is the name calling. Oh my God. This is the one that I cannot wait to hear what you have to say on this. She says, he is constantly calling us big dummies. Ya big dummy.

Oh no, this is terrible. It takes a turn and then spitting at us. OK, OK. Like that isn't that like that's a that's a next level. I was it was funny up until this. That is that's an out of control child. Yeah, it can be over the smallest or the biggest. I've tried ignoring it.

I'm using time, I have consequences, but nothing's working. Once the tantrum starts, so too does the name calling. It is exhausting. How do you stop this? I've checked my return policy. Oh, that's poor lady. She's funny about it.

At least she's kept her sense of humour. Yeah. Yeah, the receipt on a lot of these kids is not valid. No. If you go back to the rotunda, they'll be like, no, you have to keep it. Customer service there isn't good. Looks like we're stuck with this guy. Please help us make our home a happier place for the sake of all of our sanities.

And that is that is the thing. She mentioned sanity. But imagine you're close to the edge. Yeah of our sanities. And that is the thing. She mentioned sanity. Mm hmm. But imagine you're close to the edge. Yeah, but you know, there's going to be a tantrum today. I wonder when it's going to be and what nonsense it's going to be over. Yeah, and it's hard. This is a really tricky one to answer without.

Seeing the kid. Well, absolutely. It would be much easier if I was able to observe this kid. But I can already tell he's not happy. Right. Something is, he's unsettled in himself. There's a gap. There's something that has made him feel completely out of control. And he is like, it's hard for that mom to hear that though, because she'll think she made him unhappy.

We always blame ourselves. Yeah. It's not you. There's just something, there's an, he has, he's just, because she'll think she made him unhappy. We always blame ourselves. Yeah. It's, it's not you. There's just something there's an, he has internalized. Yes. Some kind of unfairness or he has internalized a feeling of being good enough and he is unhappy in himself.

I really think that. Well, I really feel that that all most kids who are acting out this way. Feel like they are not part of everything like everyone else is, or that people don't love them the same way they love the others. And it's not anything this mom has done. Is he going to nursery? Is he having a tough time with the other kids there? Yeah.

Like, has he actually just seen these things happen at nursery? I mean, that used to be a thing I got in my classroom a lot where parents would come in and go, do you know what? My kids are calling me names and spitting. And I'd be like, oh, that's interesting because they definitely saw another child do that last week and we've dealt with it, but they're obviously giving it a go at home too. Now, how do we help her? First things first, this little guy needs help processing his emotions.

There is a lot of emotions going on there. And the next time he starts shouting and having a tantrum, she needs to use a de-escalation script and say, I can see you're angry. Something has happened that's upset you. I am here. When you're ready, tell me and I'll help you fix it. She needs to try and help him feel heard. Whatever has obsession feels very unfair to him. He is really acting out. Now, the spitting and name calling, she's already doing what she should do there,

ignoring it, but what she actually needs to do is make sure that he's safe and remove herself. You know, even if it's just two feet away from him, act like it's not happening. Do not respond to that behavior. And the minute he finishes, you don't have to acknowledge it yet. That's something you can talk about later when he's calm but you distract him or when he starts acting out like that, fill up a basin with water, put bubbles in it, give him some sponges and just get him squeezing. I mean you're not, you are not going to get true to him yet that he needs to stop and be reasonable because it's gone too far. You're going to need to distract him. You're going to need to give him things like you see him about to go get him over to the sink, fill it with bubbles, let him have a splashy around time in there.

You see him about to go give him the brush and tell him to brush the floors or wipe the tables. Get him busy doing something else, distract that kid. There's energy in there that he needs to let out, give him a more purposeful thing to do rather than engaging in that behavior. I feel terrible for children like this. You know, these are my favorite kids because sometimes they just need a grown up to say, Because sometimes they just need a grownup to say, you look really angry. You're very angry. Something has really upset you. Please tell me what it is and I can help you.

And sometimes that can be the beginning of the healing for him. You know? The colour monster is the book. Oh, the colour monster is a book I love. I'm always talking about the colour monster, but it's great for this age because it's a pop-up book. It's very visual. It really helps them consider what am I feeling at these times.

The colour monster is very mixed up too. How do we help him sort? There's lots of beautiful exercises within that that you can do. You know- You make people that immediately reach for a diagnosis in this situation. I don't think that's wrong. If your child's acting out this much to be concerned and think maybe there's something else going on there.

The problem is it's very easy. Like that is a controversial thing. It's easy to go down that route. It's easy to get a diagnosis, I think. Do you? I do. I think you can pretty much get a diagnosis for anything now. I think we're aware more of how a child learns and the additional needs these children have.

I mean, we're always talking about diagnosis as a negative thing, but actually, like they can really help a child, especially these teachers now who are expected to help these children. now who are expected to help these children. But isn't it tough, though, that you know, your kid is doing this stuff, not saying this kid specifically. And instead of trying to puzzle out, maybe there's someone in the class doing this, that they're straight down the road of, well, we need to get them to see some right away. That person isn't doing that, though, who we're emailing. Like I said, not this person.

No. Like the reality is that even if you do get that. Yeah. That won't change the behaviour. Won't change the behaviour. There are ways of changing, like it'll help you understand the behaviour. Sometimes a child getting a diagnosis can just help the mom and dad breathe out a little and think,

OK, we didn't do everything wrong. This is a little bit more out of our control. But like this child would benefit from his mom giving him big hugs and telling him, she's probably done this already. Like if you are, I'm so sorry. Big hugs and saying, I love everything about you. I love you so much. And this kid's just there's an uneasiness here. Big hugs and saying, I love everything about you. I love you so much.

And this kid's just, there's an uneasiness here. There's a feeling and posture feeling in this kid. Yeah. I've seen it over and over again. It's a very difficult age for kids. If they don't feel completely, you know, like they've, they're part of it. They fit in. They're equal. And you know what?

I would suggest, mom, take a little step back and have a look at how the older two kids are interacting with them, because there could be something there. It could be, you know, something you just missed because how can you see everything? Oftentimes the trouble is actually coming from the older kids really being too tough on them, too tough. And then that's just something you redress with a family meeting, like in a very indirect way, talk about how mommy, daddy love all of you, we all need to get on, we need to remember to be kind to each other, we don't say unkind things, we watch out for each other, we've got each other's back, we're a team, this is our team and we're all playing on the same team. we don't say unkind things. We watch out for each other. We've got each other's back. We're a team.

This is our team and we're all playing on the same team. I don't know. I just feel like there's a lot more going on here. And I love the idea, though, of first taking a step back and trying to see, well, what's underneath and is this is there something happening in the classroom? Yeah. And she sounds like she's all over it. She sounds like an incredible mother.

Really trying, but now and next, all of that, if you guys aren't familiar with. You do have to pick one thing, though. You can't throw everything. But if I could give parents one piece of advice, you know. If I came to your house, all I would do for the first two days is watch everybody, not just the kid. Sometimes it's important to take a step back and just watch, watch what's happening, watch how they're talking, how they're interacting, how they react when they are in the room together. You see the dynamics, you know, see what's around us, you know?

Obviously the concern, like the beginning of this podcast is the fear of raising adoption. You know, we're all worried. Is this it? Is this what I got? In someone's face as a teenager? Yeah. The spitting is very hard to ignore, but she has to.

I mean, it'd be interesting to know, is he doing that outside of the house? Is he doing it? What are you saying? I mean, it's be interesting to know, is he doing that outside the house? Is he doing it? I mean, it's disgusting. Oh, it's so unsanitary. And it makes him look like he's, you know, people will judge him harshly for that behavior. Yeah, you'd have to say. Yeah, it's really tough.

It's rare in a social setting when you spit in somebody's face. They'll go, adorable. But he's only little and they'll judge him so harshly for that. And I know why she's worried. If your child is spitting and you need to distract them from that behavior, there are loads of chewy sensory toys you can get. They come as a necklace and they can chew on them and put them in their mouth. And it can be something they do rather than the spitting.

Swap out the behaviour. It's an out of control moment. It is. Isn't it? In the same way as the lashing out. Well, think about the reaction he would have got for spitting. Oh, yeah. It wouldn't have been subtle.

Yeah. You certainly would not have been like, cool. Yeah. So he's chasing that. He's chasing that level of interaction again. Well, we always follow up and Tina will always be in touch with people. Yeah, well, I haven't been in touch with anyone. We got so many emails. I will be. Absolutely.

It's been a bit mad. We've been a bit. Yeah, things have been crazy. Yeah. But rest assured, if you email the podcast, we'll be back. I will be back. I said at the start that I was an obsessive enough kid that I would obsess over things. Like I could give you a list of things that I was obsessed with.

I think you've managed to use that as a real positive as a grown up. You still get obsessed about things, but now it's your work, which works out great for me. You think I'm obsessed with my work. Absolutely, it's all you talk about. Is it? Yeah, we're forever going like we're trying to write jokes. I'm like, fuck's sake, did this guy ever stop talking about me?

Ah, hilarious. I didn't even notice myself doing that. Are you kidding me? It's non-stop. Really? Yes, you are an obsessive kind of person. Oh. It's good.

Thanks. Thanks. I was going's good. Thanks. Thanks. I was going to say like karate. You were obsessed with karate? Yes, obsessed with karate. Doing karate or just watching it? Obsessed with karate, yeah. When did you do karate?

When did you do karate? This is, again, classic karate. We're 25 years in, Darla. You never liked karate. You've never brought it up. I talk about my... Yeah, no, this is like I was six and completely obsessed with Karate Kid. Cute.

And movies that were in any way Asia was my obsession. Really? At age six? Yeah. And all their food and their culture and learning to use chopsticks. I was absolutely obsessed. That's amazing. I'd imagine I was obsessed with like,

tundar cats. Yeah. It's so funny, isn't it? Like if I picked up the phone and rang my sisters, they'd say, no, you weren't. Oh, well siblings love doing that too, silly. Most of the conflict in families is over accurate regulation of the past. Yes. You were into that.

I was the one that liked that. Like, no, I fall for that every time. I fully was obsessed with writing, learning how to do the script and learning Cantonese writing. Oh, my God. And we had this tiny little cookbook that was Chinese cookbook. Just looking at how they... Age?

Age six, I was obsessed with it. I'm a karate kid and Bruce Lee and all that. But like this question is about obsession. And I'm just so interested because it definitely, I think it speaks to the type of kid this is, that they're really focused and passionate because I was passionate about people and other places and kids and that it's not, I don't see this as a really crazy negative thing that this kid is involved in but let's hear it, Tina and Jar, delighted to have season 3 back, listening to the

long, long summer. It has been a really warm response. It's been lovely. Thank you guys for getting in touch. I've been in touch before a few different things and I've always found you guys so helpful. I really appreciate you doing the podcast. My question is now about my six year old daughter. She has had an obsession with the daughter of my friend for a better year now. This other girl is almost nine and in third class. And we have occasional play dates.

There are a group of mums who met at a local breastfeeding group and who are now good friends. We get together with all the kids for days out, coffee, catch-ups, and the annual mommy and kid weekend away. It's lovely. And the kids have grown up together, essentially, but about a year ago, my daughter started taking a bigger interest in this older friend.

Initially, she just liked that she was older and fun. We thought it was cute and just a phase that would pass, but it hasn't. She asks about her all the time. She talks about her non-stop at home She wants to send her voice notes and video messages on her phone Which we do occasionally to keep in touch or share news, etc. She latches on to her when we do see them Ignoring all the other girls her own age

They're in the same school and all Last year when she was in junior infants and the older girl was in second class, she would watch out for her in the yard, be over chatting to her and trying to play with her. Right, sorry I clicked on C-mail and something else popped up. I'll jump in again. This girl is so lovely. All right, well, I think there's your problem.

The kid is so tolerant. Another right. Well, I think there's your problem. And that is so tolerant. No, they could be like a call. She might be OK with the whole situation. She's a lovely kid, very patient with her. But sometimes my daughter can be a bit much, can't they all? Yeah, that's kind of her to know that I'm telling her to give her space to let this girl play with her own friends. And by all means, say hi, but don't overwhelm her with hugs.

This year, my daughter is in a senior infants and the older girls moved on to their class, which is in a separate part of the school with separate yards. And my daughter is devastated. She is anxious going into school, slight separation anxiety at the door of the classroom, which we didn't have last year. She keeps telling me it's because she misses her friend. She asks me all day long if we can drop to her house, call her mam's phone, send her messages, post her cards, letters.

She sent loads over the last year with drawings. She really bugs me about it. I start off patient, explaining how it's not appropriate to be hounding people that much. But as a six year old, she doesn't really get this. She just like, wants the big deal. Let's she's like, what's the big deal? Let's go see them. It's the first thing she asks after school.

And this friend is the focus of a lot of her drawings and art. Okay. As I said, we do have regular play days, maybe twice a month, a few video messages exchanged here and there. Not enough for my daughter. What can I do? Okay. I find it hard to explain the boundaries and the rules surrounding social interaction and relationships to her. My friend has been great about it. But how do I help my daughter through this?

Every time she's upset, whether it's back to school, a hard day, fight with her brother or illness. She always brings it back to this issue, telling us it's all because she misses her friend. Oh, that's heartbreaking. Because she hasn't seen. She's always suffered with anxiety. I'm not sure if she uses this when she can't figure out what's wrong. Really attempt of mom to even spot that.

That's incredible. We're at a loss as to what to do as it doesn't seem to be wearing off. So any advice is much appreciated. Guarantee there's people listening to this going, my kid's obsessed with another kid too. Yeah. Well, it's very, very common for a younger girl to kind of fall in love with the idea of an older girl, especially if that older girl has been kind to her.

Yeah. It's the whole reason they do buddy systems in schools and why the buddy system works, because the younger kid just feels so special if an older kid actually gets some any time. Now, the first thing this mommy needs to do, and sorry if you're going, very teachery, very teachery like. I'll tell you what you need to do now. But the first thing she needs to do is play dates with kids from her own class. It's screams of a kid who did not make a friend group.

And it is not too late. Children are, I hate to say it, very fickle with friendships. Friendships change all the time. The room to grow and make new ones is vast. So get in there, start inviting friends over to the house. You've got to get this girl playing with friends. Overwhelm her with other friendships. I'm not joking.

She needs no, I think it's great. She needs to have different people over all the time. Something else that she's excited. Yeah. Yeah. You got need to go into that school and talk to the teacher because you don't know how much the school have encouraged us to. If a teacher has a little person in their class who doesn't have any friends, but they're willing to play with this other child,

they're happy enough as long as that kid is happy. So now you've got to get your teacher on board and be like, you need to encourage her to make friends in the class. You need to do stories about friendship. Use your teacher, get your teacher involved. They can talk to your child in a way you can't. Get the teacher to do a project about boundaries. What is okay? Lots of role playing in the class. What's okay to do and what's not okay to do. Really? Yeah.

Let's get the teacher. She won't, kids won't listen to you. They will listen to their teacher. They will absolutely take in what she says. Yeah. And I bet that this is something that schools are talking. And then last thing I would say is when she brings up the friend, don't. Entertain her.

No, I'm going to say the other thing. Don't she's trying to dissuade her. She's trying to. Don't shut it down. That's the word, isn't it? Don't shut it down. Just listen. You don't have to say anything.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, what if she's going, let's go to the house now. You can say things like, that is a brilliant idea. Let's see if we've got time for that later. Because the more you shut it down, the more she's like, I gotta get this to happen. Go and make this happen, my mom will let me. But if she thinks it's a possibility, my mom doesn't actually think it's that bad.

You know, it's important to talk about boundaries, but she's right. She's not listening to her telling her about it, so leave that to the teacher. Get the teacher to broach that one. Wow. I mean, I feel sorry for this little girl though, because she lost her only friend. She was too attached to that older person. And obviously people were saying it's adorable. Yeah, but she said at the start, it's like people, oh, that's great. The way the two of them really have a special bond.

She would hear that. It all goes in. I always think it's really funny over the summer. How many times I was hearing people going, and you know, he doesn't know what he's doing. He's like, he's in the room. Yeah. They can hear it all. They can hear it. And they are listening to it all. In fact, my nephew often goes, I heard that. Yeah, he's the best.

I love I love that. Because these he's the best. I love that. As these other kids won't say, I heard that. They'll just hear it and internalize it. I can hear what you're saying in there. I can hear what you're saying. I know you're talking about me. I love that kid so much. But yeah, she just needs the first thing to do here.

Get play dates going with kids in that class. She needs to look forward to seeing her friend in her class. How fixable is this? It's so fixable. How far? Oh, two weeks. Really? A month.

I don't know. You say it and I'm like, maybe not. Yeah. Get the teacher involved though. She needs that teacher. But you're right about how transient all of this is. Oh, friendship training. How many times have you had an email from somebody going, there's been a fight on the playground, these kids are doing this to my kid.

And then I was like, next week I'll go to that. You think about it. Actually, like most of the time, I always say to parents, don't get involved. Do not step back. Step back. This is a bit different now. She doesn't need help. But even then, get the teacher involved. Don't be the one to do it because.

Friendship kids are so fickle, like in in years time, hopefully this will be such a memory and that little girl will be happy with the friends she has in her class. But your advice is so why people get in touch with this podcast. He has like highfalutin stuff, accept the compliment. I always say that when Tina tells when I tell Tina she looks sexy, she goes, what are you talking about now? She goes, fuck off.

I look terrible today. What's wrong with you? You need to get your eyes tested. Or I do vomit noise. I go, what? Why would you like this? When Tina says I look sexy, I take off my clothes and make my way to the bedroom. That's so true.

I think that's Irish men all over. They're like, we take all of your compliments on face value. You assume suspicion at all times whenever you compliment you. Yeah, I'm like, are you taking the piss out of me? Your advice on this is straightforward and will zero in on what's happening. This kid needs connection with other kids. In her class. Floater with her.

Yeah. And don't, you know, don't stop meeting the other kid. That's fine. Keep that in her life. Don't take it away. But like, don't shut things down. Just listen and say, great idea. Let's try and do that. Get those other friends in.

Get those play dates going. Get that teacher involved. Make sure she has someone in the class she's looking forward to talking to. That's where we're going to have to leave it for this week. If you are a member, you can come, you can listen to the rest of the show on page if you want to become a member this is the week come on this is the week. Fifty days out from the american presidential election you want to marry and mccown in your ear every friday love weekly episode round up of making sense of what's happening with kamala and donald. Things are just getting more and more while they're reading the dogs and they're eating the cats. Eating the dogs and they're eating the cats, apparently. A story they completely made up and have admitted they made up,

but they now think they're the great lads for making it up. In the meantime, Kamala's ahead in the polls. If you've any interest at all, this is the number one podcast right now about the presidential election. You'll also get Irishman running abroad, extra large episodes with Sáine O'Sullivan and the full access to our archive of interviews with the greatest Irish people ever to have lived. I'm coming to Vancouver, Seattle, Portland and San Francisco on the west coast of America. And there are so many more dates in the InBits tour just announced this week,

including a new date in Armagh, the Marketplace Theatre, where I'm going to be at the Waterfront Hall in Belfast on January 4th. Adding another night in Leicester Square. We're adding another night in Leicester Square in London, in glittering London's west end. Manchester's nearly sold out. Manchester, the Lowry Theatre is nearly gone and we've sold out three nights at the three Olympia and we're adding a fourth. Come over to jigsr.com forward slash gigs. Get yourself a ticket.

It's a fun night out. It's been such a joy putting this show together. Tina, thanks so much for making this episode, and we'll see the rest of you over on Patreon in a moment. Thank you, Jared, I love you.