Hope Is A Verb - Constantino Aucca Chutas - Rescuing Indigenous knowledge in the Andes

Episode Date: January 25, 2024

Meet 'Tino' Aucca Chutas, a biologist in Peru who has worked with communities across the Andes to plant almost 10 million trees to combat climate change. Reviving the practices of his Inca ancestors, he has secured local water supplies and empowered people to create change. Find out more: https://accion-andina.org/?doing_wp_cron=1706209982.1546800136566162109375 This episode of Hope Is A Verb was hosted by Angus Hervey and Amy Davoren-Rose. The soundtrack for this podcast is "Rain" composed and performed by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠El Rey Miel ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠from their album "Sea the Sky." Audio Sweetening by Anthony Badolato- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Ai3 Audio and Voice⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.You can contact us at: [e-mail]

Welcome to Season 2 of Hope is a Verb, a podcast that explores what it takes to change the world through conversations with the people that are making it happen. I'm Amy. I'm Gus, and these are the unknown heroes who are mending our planet, stitching together a better future, and showing us the best of what it means to be human. The Incas, they are remains of cultures that suffered a climate change during the 800 years after Jesus Christ. No water, many years with sunny days, the agriculture disappeared, forests end, they said, okay,, the agriculture disappeared, forests end.

They said, okay, let's build aqueducts. Even right now, those aqueducts are still bringing water. They build terraces to produce all the crops. Right now, they're still producing like they produced a thousand years ago. And the best, they planted trees. The overlapping nature and scale of the challenges we face as a species today are unprecedented. But it's also true that humanity has centuries of experience to lean on and generations of problem solvers to inspire us. In our rush towards pushing forward, in our excitement about the new, we forget the wisdom

of the ancient. And recovering indigenous ancient wisdom is something that Constantino Aucasutas, or Tino, as he likes to be called, has dedicated his life to. During his 30-year quest to save South America's highlands, his connection to his Inca heritage has helped him empower thousands of local communities to plant almost 10 million trees. Communities along the Andes are struggling with the very real impacts of climate change, fire, droughts, erosion. But Tino's mission to plant millions of the high altitude polylipis tree is restoring forests, ancient practices, and water supplies.

Tino's cloud forests, which may just be the best name for a forest I've ever heard, are proof that sometimes the solutions to our most urgent problems are those with the deepest roots. Tino, welcome to Hope is a Verb. We're so pleased to have you on the podcast. Thank you so much to everybody and it's a pleasure to be here. Is there a story, a new story or a story maybe from your local area, anything that's giving you hope in the world right now? When the people mention to me why you are doing all this work? I normally answer

because I believe in it. Seeing the face of the local communities, local people, natives, and even better, the face of the kids. For me, my friend, I cry many times. But I cry because

I saw the happiness on the face of the kids. Or just a single message from them. I promised to my kids, I'm not going to stop in this. I'm going to do everything that is possible to give some hope to this single house that we have, the planet Earth. And I am sure that I can do it. So this mission that you're talking about is your organization, Action Andina, which you started 23 years ago. At the time, you were working as a biologist.

How would you describe your early days in that field? In the beginning, it's difficult, as everything is difficult in the beginning. Before 2000, with my friends, we had been traveling a lot doing research for local biologists, traveling days, sometimes months, along all the highlands, collecting data. But in every single journey, we found communities and local people who come to us looking for solutions.

Probably all that background pushed us in 2000 to create an NGO, but with one mission that is different to the rest of the other institutions. To work on implementing conservation strategies in coordination with local stakeholders and on benefit of the local and native communities.

That was our main difference. I suffered a lot from 2000 to 2003 because was the time when everybody was desperate on hot spots, corridors, creating new protected areas, but nobody believes that putting humans as the solution, nobody believed on that. If the humans are the problem, why we don't work with the humans? Of course, in the last 10 years, more institutions changed their mission.

Now they put inside of the mission on benefits their local communities, protecting the culture, the nature and culture, everything. But in 2000, nobody. Indigenous-led conservation is gaining momentum all around the world right now and has had so many great successes restoring different landscapes and species.

Why has it taken us so long to put conservation into the hands of local communities? Normally, in 45 years of conservation, most of the local and native communities, what they have been doing, they are spectators, not being part of the solution. Many people ask me, what is your main formula

where everybody fail? I said, all the local and native communities are demanding for respect and respect is something nobody is doing. They want to talk. They want to share histories, experience, everything. They have a lot of knowledge and we must learn from all of them.

That is the solution. Conservation without money is just conversation. And this conversation, not including local communities, is bad conversation. And that is the reason why I love to sit down with them

and spend nights with them, chewing coca leaves or just dancing, singing. I learn a lot. I don't have the certificates. I mean, no, I don't have the certificates i mean no i don't have the master's degree i don't have a phd degree all this knowledge that is coming from them i'm rescuing those practices can you give us an idea of where you're doing this work and how many communities are involved we are working in five countries this year year is going to be Colombia more. But I have a lot of happiness visiting every single local community along all the highlands.

Argentina, Chile, Bolivia, Ecuador, Peru, Colombia. Many times they ask me, Tontino, how you did it to unite all these countries? There is a history of a lot of fighting and wars, everything. Easier, easier for me. The first time when we were all united was when we were part of the Incas Empire. The second time, when we fight for our independence, this is the third time for one tree, for ILIPS. Our programs in ECO and ACTION Andina

is bringing benefits, training, leadership, and we are pushing them to be part of the solution. They work all together for a common goal. That is what we call the communal work, or Aimi Minka, and say, I'm going to use that. I'm going to use that principle. Okay, I'd love to hear more about this principle of Aimi Minka. Can you tell us the history of this philosophy

and how it translates into the work that you're doing with local communities? The Kichwa name is Aimi Minka. What does it mean? Everybody in the community is convinced to go and work all together for a common goal. Aimi means today for me and tomorrow for you. Minga, minga is the big activities,

like restoration, planting in a single day 16,000 trees. Okay, it's a communal work, it's a minga. Or let's build a bridge, okay, it's another minga. Let's repair the roof of the communal house, it's a a bridge. Okay, another minga. Let's repair the roof of the communal house. It's a minga. For big activities, it's the minga or minga. But for personal activities, I need.

During the Inca time, there were 12 million Incas. Every year, one town they offered to the Inca one month of free labor building terraces, just building houses, bridges, because it's just an honor of being under the Inca's power. In that way, my friend, in less than a thousand years, they built all that thing that now everybody comes to South America to enjoy and see terraces, aqueducts, all that magnificent things in only 1,000 years.

Yeah, wow. I mean, Tino, this combination of rescuing Indigenous wisdom alongside the forests, this must have a huge impact on the communities you work with. It's just empowering also, you know, because if you don't give them the opportunity of rescuing their heritage and their leadership, we are going to be easier targets for everything. The pressure of the big cities, corruption, but if they are maintaining that organization and the bylaws of the communities that they are carrying

from hundreds of thousands of years ago, I'm so proud of my heritage and being an Inca descendant. But indigenous heritage, you are going to suffer a lot of discrimination. Even right now, when I talk many times with all the leaders that we join around the world, everything, I highly recommend it. Never, ever victimize yourselves. No, no more tears, no more things about, I suffer discrimination, racism, terrorism, politics. Forget it, forget it. Find solutions.

United people. Bring benefits. We need leaders. This is the thing. I'm looking for more leaders. I mean, on paper, you could be mistaken for assuming that this is simply about environmental conservation, but the work you're doing,

it's so much more than tree planting, right? It's not just tree planting, believe me. Yeah. Many people say, ah, this is just another program of tree planting. No, no, no, no, no. When you plant a tree, it's like you are giving birth to another child.

If you are not going to protect them with monitoring, fire programs, fencing, leadership, micro-business, conservation is not just because we want to do a propaganda or scientific articles or being on the main square dancing kumbayas and no more plastic. No, sorry, that is useless. Take action. Do it something. Teach something.

It's not just to cry and say, we are adapting to the climate change. What does it mean adapting? Sit down and wait. Every single problem that we are addressing, if we don't take action, it's not going to never be resolved. we invite you to abandon your egos and conform because the planet earth is demanding for more action

I say that thing you are not going to believe from 500 people on the audience 400 was angry because they feel comfortable being in that chairs with good salaries than not taking action.

Only 50 people come and hug my hand and give me a hug and send them. This is the solution. There's something about this kind of ground level, roll up your sleeves and get it done approach that is so powerful. And it really brings home the whole point of this podcast, that we are all menders. That to be human is to have the ability to solve these problems and to stitch things back together. It's interesting timing too, because Tino's work puts into practice what Hannah Ritchie spoke about on this podcast last week,

that true sustainability is a two-part equation, environmental restoration and human wellbeing. When Tino works with communities, he doesn't just give them the tools for tree planting, he also brings in doctors and dentists and provides things like solar panels. It's an approach that tends to all parts of the social ecosystem. Is there a moment or an event that you can maybe point to in your childhood that led you to do the work that you're doing today?

Coming from a poor family, I lost my parents in my earlier age and I take care for five brothers. I started running behind the ships and the cows of my grandfather taking care of that, being a campesino. It was a big responsibility when my grandparent told me, your second name is Auka, means warrior. You must fight for us. Me, being a teenager, I said, another soap opera. This is not something for me. But life pushes you or drives you to momentums where you are going to return to these specific times and you can say, uh-oh, this is not just a soap opera, this is history

and it's time to do history. And I returned to them and said, okay, it's time to fight. Now, before you started your conservation work, Tino, you trained as a biologist. What inspired you to do this? I want to be honest. I tried three times to become a medical doctor. Why? Being a medical doctor, engineer or lawyer is the career that everybody wants because it's money. It's the solution to be not poor. But the second option

was biology. Being a biologist, I spent more time on the field than at the university. All my holidays, weekend, I spent just in the woods, sleeping there, trying to understand the nature. I cry seeing the birds, deers, even some mountain cats. And I think this is when I found the touch with the Mother Earth. I saw the spirits, you know. The mountains for us are the protectors, are the spirits of the rivers, are spirits. The pumas, condors are spirits. Now, it was this deep connection to nature, Tino,

that led you to the work that you're doing today. And at the heart of this work is the polylipis tree. I would love to chat a little more about this tree and why it is so special. Thank you so much for the question. It's going to help to understand more about how we are succeeding so fast. In five years, we planted 10 million trees. Polylepis trees have different local names, Keunya, Keweenia, Kenua. The local name changes along all the countries from Venezuela near to Patagonia.

It's one species that only grows on the South American high andes. It's the highest forest in the world, sometimes above 5,000 meters sea level. They grow on rocks, on erosion, and high slopes. But when they grow, they are surrounded by other kinds of plants and moss. And also around the trunk and the branches of the trees has many skins. That is why it's called polylepsis, many skins. All this botanical surrounding the trees works as a mist net, catching the humid and also the rainwater that comes every raining season. And the moss and the other vegetation works like a sponge, catching all the water that later they are going to go slowly to creating the new rivers and of course bringing the water that everybody they are going to go slowly to creating the new rivers and of course

bringing the water that everybody's waiting down the valley as part of your work you started an annual polylipus tree planting festival called quenya rimey i'd love to hear more about it we come from a heritage where the main principal party of celebrating during the Inca times, the Inti Raimi, the festival of the sun. But when we started to plant the Keunya, so these polylepis trees, they said, why don't we call Keunya Raimi? People happy, everybody happy, going up on the mountain, walking like three hours to put the plants, bring life, because every single plant is a new life. We have volunteers. We have everybody.

Everybody comes happy. I attended the COF meeting in Lima in 2014 and not seeing any results after wasting more than $90 or $ million dollars on that meeting. For that reason, many times I said, you're waiting for the COP meeting number 500 and recently you are going to resolve the climate change problem? I get back to Cusco and call to my friends, let's show that the Keunya Rai is the solution to this climate change problem. You are not going to believe.

In a single day, we planted 57,000 trees and we showed that. This is the solution. Wow. From that time, it started to become popular and popular and popular. That's the thing. We didn't just receive any master class. We only rescued what works during that time, during the Incas time. We are reviving that culture and it's working.

You've been doing this now for more than half a lifetime. What is the most important lesson that you've learned? The best lesson was during the COVID time. Trying to help to my people on the highlands, I caught the pneumonia. And after that, pneumonia was COVID. I was so close to die. But my mentality was,

what's going to happen in the future if I die? I called to my kids and Sebastian, the youngest one, and I asked him if I'm allowed to die. The answer was, I think, the best medicine that I received in my life. He said, no. But I said, I already planted 3.5 million trees. That is not enough. And he said, no, that is nothing. But Sebastian, please, I created more than 16 protected areas.

Okay, that is nothing. No, no, no, no, no, Sebastian, please. I provided thousands of jobs, benefits, everything. Yes, but it's nothing. Probably it's for them, but for us, nothing. Because I'm in understanding that the things that I did still needed to be more. Because these young people, the young people never, ever are going to have the simple way to measure what we need. What the kids are going to receive from us and the worst when they are going to ask us why you permitted to do that. That was my special moment, Anton.

I said, thank you, COVID. Thank you, COVID, for giving me that momentum. And thank you for having my family for two years inside of my home. Because after that, I had been traveling a lot trying to save the world. But also COVID came from Mother Earth too. Resilience, my friend. Resilience. Think on that. The Incas,

they are remains of cultures that suffered a climate change during the 800 years after Jesus Christ. No water, many years with sunny days, the agriculture disappeared, forests end. They said, okay, what we needed?

Water. Let's build aqueducts. Even right now, that aqueducts are still bringing water. You can come to Cusco, you are going to see those aqueducts still working. They build terraces

to produce all the crops. Right now they're still producing like they produced a thousand years ago. And the best, they planted trees. This is resilience. Many times when one expert with five PhDs or ten PhDs

says, no, you don't know nothing. Okay, thank you. In the 45 or more than 40 years that you are still producing more PSDs, I'm going to plant probably hundreds million trees. I'm going to be happy because I provide hope.

I provide life. Not just articles and egos that I don't want to have. Tino, I could listen to you all day. The passion in your voice, it is just infectious. And what... I mean, good virus.

I mean, good virus. What I'm really interested in, now that you've rescued this Indigenous wisdom, what is the plan to pay it forward to future generations so that this work will continue beyond your lifetime, even your kids' lifetimes? I'm 59 years old. I didn't look like 59 years old. Of course, I'm still having black hair, not too much problems. But what I discovered in the life, we must learn to give and provide

opportunities to the young people. Politicians, always they cut the wings and the legs to the younger generations. Always. Why? Because with the money interest, they don't want to see solutions. They want to see slaves, idiots, or blind persons. When I gave a speech to younger generations or young students, normally I repeat the same. Try to do the best that you can

and improve everything that is possible. If you fail, don't be worried. Start again. If in the second time you fail, don't be worried. Start again. If in the second time you fail, try to be better. But never, ever am I going to accept that you are going to fail the third time. Because if you are going to continue failing, you are going to start to become a parasite because you are finding a comfortable position. That is not the point.

I saw many countries or many powerful countries failing because when they started to have the power, they offered to their child or to children everything simple, easier and free. No, no, no, sorry, for us it's not that. We must teach you how to walk. That's it. Tino, we have one final question. What does the word hope mean to you?

Hope for me is happiness. If you, with your actions, can produce a smile and happiness, be sure that you are doing a good thing. If there's one thing to take from Tino, it's the power of transforming work into joy. To turn a tree-plant planting program into a festival. To dance with the local communities and listen to their stories. To rescue ancient knowledge that's at the heartbeat of conservation.

People and nature recovering the past to secure a future. You can find out more about Tino's work in our show notes. Thank you. This podcast is recorded in Australia on the lands of the Gadigal, Wurundjeri and Waiwurrung people. There are a lot of podcasts out there. It means a lot to us that you chose this one. If you enjoyed this episode and you would like to support Hope as a Verb, please subscribe and leave a review. hope is a verb, please subscribe and leave a review. And if you want to reach out directly, email us at hope at futurecrunch.com.au. Thanks for listening.