Hope Is A Verb - Fernando Trujillo - Hope Songs in the Amazon

Episode Date: September 13, 2024

We cover a lot of conversation stories about the Amazon at Fix The News, but it’s not often that we get the chance to talk with someone who is driving these efforts. Meet Fernando Trujillo, a marine scientist who is fighting to save the Pink River Dolphins of the Amazon River. Over the past 30 years Fernando and his team have scaled a small research project in Colombia into a global mission to protect river dolphins and their waterways around the world. Find out more: https://omacha.org This podcast is hosted by Angus Hervey and Amy Davoren-Rose from ⁠⁠⁠Fix The News⁠⁠⁠. Audio sweeting by Anthony Badolato at Ai3 – audio and voice.

Hope is a reminder. It's the fuel of your soul. It's so much more infused with action. Ability to see a much better future. You really have to earn it to have it. Hope is happiness. Welcome to Hope is a Verb, a podcast about what it takes to change the world through conversations with the people who are making it happen.

I'm Amy. I'm Amy. I'm Gus. And in each episode, we shine a spotlight on the ordinary heroes who are stitching our social fabric together, mending our planet and creating solutions to some of today's biggest global challenges. In this episode, how one man's quest to save pink dolphins in the Amazon has rippled out into a mission to protect rivers all around the world. So after a couple of years later, I ended up in a cargo plane going to the Amazon with two friends.

I was in the middle of my career and I just fell in love with the Amazon and with the dolphins. It was incredible to see in the jungle with toucans, with jaguars, dolphins. That's a kind of magic thing. We cover a lot of conservation stories about the Amazon rainforest in our newsletter, but we don't often get the chance to speak with someone who's on the ground and actually driving some of these efforts. It's no secret that we're in a race against time to save this part of our planet,

but for marine scientist Fernando Torilho, it's a marathon that he has been running for well over 30 years. Fernando and his team are on a mission to save the endangered pink dolphins of the Amazon River. What started as a small research project in his country of Colombia has expanded into a national and global mission to protect river dolphins and their waterways around the world. After covering 52,000 kilometers of the Amazon River and training more than 500 local people to join in his effort, Fernando's story is as powerful and as captivating as the creatures themselves. Fernando, welcome to the podcast. It's great to have you on.

Thank you very much. I am so glad to be here today with you. Is there anything that's giving you hope right now? Yes, I think the small actions of kindness, light, empathy, generosity for some people give me hope. These are small things. And also the resilience of the nature. These small things and also the resilience of the nature, because despite all the effort we made to destroy our planet, the nature always find a way to recover. I have seen places where there are a lot of destructions, but after a while, when people are not anymore acting in this area,

the nature just recovers, and that's magnificent. And that gives me hope. I think that might be one of my favorite answers to that question ever. Small acts of kindness and the resilience of nature. Can you give me any examples of what you're talking about? I think you've just come back from the field. You've been away for a while. Can you be specific about something that you might have seen in your travels? Yes. I live in a world of scientists where we all have a big egos and sometimes it's very difficult to work and to understand that everybody are in the same side. And just a couple of years ago, maybe less, I was in the Amazon and a young girl come to me

and show me a lot of fossils. And for a moment, I thought she wanted to sell me the fossils. So I asked her, are you going to sell me these fossils? And she said, no, I'm coming because people say that you are a very good biologist. And I want to know what all these bones come from, which kind of animals. So that was fantastic. I saw a very young girl, indigenous, that started to collect fossils when she was 16. And all the people around was thinking that she was crazy. But she kept collecting the fossils and she was so curious. So these kind of things, the small things and examples of people authenticity give me hope. That is actually an even better example, because now what you've done is we've got small acts

of kindness, nature is resilience and the magic of curiosity and the wonder of science. So this is a wonderful way of answering this question. I have another question for you. In our newsletter at Fix the News, we often share conservation stories about what's happening in the Amazon. And you're really on the front lines of these efforts. Can you maybe share with us what the feeling is like on the ground right now? Is there enough change happening? And more importantly, is there enough positive change happening in the Amazon? One of the best things to see changes in the Amazon is traveling along the rivers. So far, I think I have covered more than

80,000 kilometers of rivers in six countries. Wow. And I have repeated these surveys for almost 25 years. So I can see the changes in time. For example, in the Peruvian Amazon, you can see a lot of biodiversity, but at the same time, you can see a lot of human activity. In Ecuador, you can see a lot of oil explorations. And in Brazil, you can see the effect of climate change making that the droughts are more and more dramatic, like the last year, when we lost almost 330 dolphins in just a couple of months. I was the last week in the Amazon and the rivers were just going down dramatically. So we are trying to be prepared for what is coming. But I have seen a lot of changes, for example, in biodiversity. When I started to work, I was 19 years old and I used

to go at night in a small boat. And when I just put on the torch, all the fish just start to jump inside the boat. And that was amazing. And now it never happened. You can see there is a dramatic change. There are more people now living in the Amazon. We are now estimating that there are 45 millions of people living in the Amazon basin, 45 millions, and only 3.2 are indigenous. Also, we have a lot of organized crime in the whole Amazon with illegal gold mining, with illegal crops, a lot of deforestation. The situation is quite dramatic. We already lost one million square kilometers from the seven million square kilometers of the whole Amazon Basin. We are

very close to the tipping point of no return. In some areas, for example, in the south of Brazil, we already crossed this line. But there are small indigenous communities where positive things are happening. There are nature tourists. There are people doing restoration of the forest, there are people managing the fisheries. So this is the kind of things we need to replicate in other parts of the Amazon. And this is my path in conservation and in science, try to connect all these hub zones in the Amazon in order that something positive happens. songs in the Amazon in order that something positive happened. Now you have dedicated the last 30 years of your life to making these very small focus changes that have grown into bigger outcomes, in particular, the pink river dolphin. Can you tell us what

you've learned about these magical creatures and why they are so important? When I started all this, I didn't believe that the existence of dolphins in the Amazon, that was a kind of miracle because I remember my lectures at the university saying, no, there are only dolphins in the oceans. But I had the chance to meet Jacques Cousteau when he was in expeditions to the Amazon. When I discovered that he was in my university giving a lecture, I was so happy. I used to watch all the films of Cousteau, and I think it was a strong influence for me to study marine biologies. So I was like in the back of a lot of people listening to Cousteau. And at that moment, I was trying to learn a little bit of French.

So I did a couple of questions in French. He said to me, do phones in the Amazon. Nobody are doing studies with this. And that was all. So after a couple of years later, I ended in a cargo plane going to the Amazon with two friends. I was in the middle of my career and I just fell in love with the Amazon and with the dolphins. It was incredible to see in the jungle

with toucans, with jaguars, dolphins. That's a kind of magic thing. Now we know that the pink river dolphin, that is the largest river dolphin in the planet, and it's incredible. And yes, it's pink, but in general they are gray, But when they are with a lot of physical activity, the skin starts to be very pink. And it's the same for us when we are doing an exercise. And after a while, they return to the gray color. And also, they are living in very murky waters. They need to use the song. They do echolocations to locate fish,

nets, trunks underwater. So that's an amazing creature. And for the indigenous people, they are kind of sacred animals. They have a kind of equilibrium and importance with the humans. And all my crusade to save the dolphins is basically because they are very powerful animals and the people are very empathic with dolphins. But in reality, the things that you really want to protect are the rivers, the wetlands, the water.

And the dolphins are the ambassadors of the conservation of the rivers. So the dolphins became a very good excuse to understand all the problems that the rivers are facing and to connect people with the solutions for the rivers. Can you tell us a little bit more about this connection between the dolphin and river health? Yes. The dolphins are the top predators in the water. They are the jaguars of the river. They maintain the equilibrium of the species. If in a lagoon starts to be a lot of piranhas,

the dolphins control the piranhas in that part. And also the dolphins travel a lot. They are able to move more than 2,000 kilometers along the rivers. We are doing now a health assessment program with dolphins because we believe that if we have healthy rivers, we are going to have healthy people and healthy biodiversity. So we are doing some tagging of dolphins and we take blood samples to see in what conditions they are. And we are finding a lot of mercury in the dolphins because of the illegal gold mining. So the dolphins are a very good indicator of the health of the rivers. They are sentinels of the rivers.

If there are dolphins in some area, it's because the river and the water is in good conditions. because the river and the water is in good conditions. I have found very nice hot spots of biodiversity with a lot of dolphins, fisheries, manatees, otters, caimans, but there are other places where there are nothing, just water deserts. The water is there, but it's empty. There's a lot of pollution, a lot of human disturbance. It's very dramatic.

Fernando, we've read that the real linchpin in this work to improve river health around the Amazon has been the local communities. Can you tell us a little bit about how you collaborate with the different communities and maybe some of the tools that you're giving them? Yes. The first thing is to recognise that the Amazon is very heterogeneous. There are a lot of indigenous reserves

that account almost 42% of the whole Amazon. So there is an opportunity to protect the Amazon. So we need to work with indigenous communities to provide solutions. But it is very difficult because they are in the middle of two different worlds. They are in the indigenous world and they are in the Western, very aggressive capitalist lifestyle.

And they need now incomes to buy things. So they need to create economic alternatives for the local people. We work a lot with sustainable tourists around the dolphins, and I will give you an example. In 40 kilometers of the River Amazon in Colombia, the dolphins are generating almost $8.3 million per year because all the tourists that come to the Amazon to watch the amazing pink dolphins. Every dolphin we have in these 40 kilometers are producing almost $20,000 per year. And before, there was a lot of illegal hunting of dolphins to use as a bait, especially in Brazil. And every

dead dolphin had a value of $25. So I used to present $20,000 per year or $25 forever. So the people now are engaged. We are doing a lot of training courses, and we have a campaign of planting trees. So we are working with indigenous families, and they know where to plant, when to plant, and when to plant. And so far, we have planted more than 50,000 trees. And it's fantastic. Can you tell us more about the tree planting? Because it's not something you'd expect to be part of your work in protecting dolphins. I will tell you one incredible thing I learned from the indigenous. They believe, the tikunas believe that there is a magical tree that produces fish.

When it starts to rain, the small worms become in the canopy. And with the thunders, the small worms are scared and they drop into the water. And when they drop into the water, they transform in fish. But the scientific explanation is exactly the same. When the rain starts to come, all the trees start to produce seeds. And when the flood is in the maximum level, all the trees just drop. And most of these seeds are food for the fish. If you have trees on the border with seeds, you are going to have fish.

I remember when I just came to the Amazon, I wanted to eat a fish called the gamitana, a big fish. So I asked one indigenous to take me to the forest to try to fish the gamitana. But this guy started to pedal the canoe and start to look into the trees and I thought oh my god this guy mistake me and maybe he's going to hunt a monkey or a sloth or something like that in one moment the guy said okay it's here and I was looking on at the tree and I didn't see any animal but suddenly the guy just dropped a hook into the water and after three minutes he collected this big fish I wanted to eat. And I asked him, I'm sorry, I didn't understand why you were looking at the trees. And he explained me, well, this fish eat a fruit, a seed. And I was looking the tree that produced the seeds that

that fish used to eat. So basically the flooded forest is like a supermarket with different sections for different fish. We work a lot with the local community because they are the ones that have the knowledge that we need to put in place all these solutions based in nature. I don't know about you but this idea of the magic tree is going to stay with me. I love how this Indigenous story and the science both reach the same conclusion. And as an interesting side note, we discovered that one of these Indigenous communities has dubbed Fernando Omacha, which is the name of a mythic dolphin that transforms into a man. And it's also the name of his foundation.

I love that the pink dolphin is not only the keystone species of these rivers, it's also become the guardian of these waterways. Fernando's approach is so clever because the dolphins are connecting people to all of the problems in the Amazon region. And as you're about to hear, if you really want to change the world, you start with the places and the people that are right in front of you. Was there a moment in your childhood that planted the seed for the work you do now? Did you always have a love of water?

I am passionate for the water, yes. And I have been thinking for a lot about this seed in my life that put me all this passion for nature. And I think it was my grandfather. My grandfather used to go a lot to the Orinoco River doing business with his brother. And when I was five years old, I remember going to the river Orinoco. We used to throw pebbles to put away the piranhas. When I was five years old, I remember going to the river Orinoco. We used to throw pebbles to put away the piranhas. It was a so dangerous environment.

But I remember that people start to scream, Toninas, Toninas. And everybody just left the water. And I didn't know what was a Tonina. It could be a very dangerous animal. And the Tonina at the end was the river dolphins. And the people were scared because the Toninas approached a lot. I didn't realize at that moment that years later, I was devoting my entire life to protect these very strange looking animals that are the river dolphins. You've experienced many highs and lows in your career, but through it all, there seem to have been these three strands. One is obviously

scientific curiosity and research. The other is conservation and this desire to do something. And then there's a third strand in there, I think, which is a real commitment to working with local communities. Why is it so important? Or maybe how do you incorporate all of these things? I will start saying that when I was finishing my school and I said I want to be a scientist, but I wanted to be a humanist as well. And they say, no, no, no, there are two different things. They are not compatible.

And I was in a little bit of crisis because of that. But now, after all this year, I found that it is very important to integrate these two approaches, be a scientist and at the same time a humanist. We are in a country in South America where you cannot only produce science, you need to be more active. And this is the way I decided. We produce science, but we want to make things happen. So I started to do all this research in the Amazon in a small town, but also was thinking, okay, I need to grow more because the stakeholders asked me, okay, the dolphins are in danger, but how many of them are? And I didn't have the answer. So I decided to go to the rivers to create a methodology to count dolphins.

And we create a methodology that now most people are using in South America. So after that, we have information, but we didn't have the attention of the governments. So we decided to do an action plan for river dolphins in South America. And I decided to do in Bolivia because they didn't know they had a unique species of dolphin in Bolivia, the Inia boliviansis. Bolivia is the only country they don't have access to the ocean. So when they realized they have endemic species, they were so, so happy. So Bolivia started to create an action plan for conserve the river dolphins. And then we did the same in Peru, in Venezuela, in Ecuador, Colombia, and Brazil,

and we create national action plans. But the countries didn't work together. So I started to work in the International Whaling Commission, and I became the coordinator for the four governments. Welling Commission, and I became the coordinator for the four governments. And the last year, we have the opportunity to convoke 14 countries to sign a global declaration for the conservation of rivers and dolphins, China, Pakistan, India, Myanmar, Cambodia, Brazil, Ecuador. So we elevate this from the monitoring of dolphins in a small town in the Amazon to a global scale. But always we need to come back to the small scale because at the small scale, the solutions work. And we need to create this hub for the Amazon. I love how holistic your work is and that it's this knowledge exchange of science, indigenous storytelling. It's so powerful. One thing I would love to know is what is the current

situation with the pink dolphins? Where are things at? Well, this is a good question. We have a lot of content in different rivers and in the area where I have been working for more than 30 years, we did the statistic analysis like six months ago. And we were horrified. We discovered that we lost already 52% of the pink river dolphins and 37% of the gray dolphins. And I was so worried because this is an area where we are putting a lot of efforts. We believe that we have almost 30,000 dolphins in the whole Amazon. We are now in the

category of endangered. The next category is critically endangered, and the next one is extinct. We have the Beijing dolphin in China being extinct in 26. And now we are working with colleagues and fellows in India and Pakistan. And the situation in Asia is quite dramatic because the 23% of the whole population of the planet are in those rivers. And the changes are dramatic. So it's very challenging to try to recover these rivers. And I used to say that the South American rivers, the Amazon, the Orinoco, need to look into the Asian rivers as the mirror of the future because the population are growing. A couple of months ago, my minister of the environment, she said in a conference that we are not facing the conservation of the Amazon. We need to face the crisis and the collapse of the Amazon, and we need to avoid it.

We need to put in place a lot of solutions because what is happening to the dolphins is happening to other species and also the people. The people are living in the border of the rivers and the shores. They are not getting more fish. Sometimes they are not able to fish enough to feed their families. So the livelihood itself for that people are under threat. Fernando, when you're faced with everything you've been talking about here, and you keep on going

back into the field to encounter new changes, how do you keep on going? Surely there must be times when you become really dejected or despondent. What gets you up and keeps you going in those moments? Absolutely. I have in many occasions when I was very close to give up, say that's enough, this does not make any sense. Also because I'm running an NGO and it's very hard to get the money year per year. My Omacha Foundation, that is my own NGO, is 31 years old. When I started, I never believed it. Now, 31 years. But I don't know. I think the reason I keep hope is because I go to the field.

And this keeps me connected with the things I want to protect. Other people, other friends that are colleagues, they used to say, why, Fernando, you are going always to the field? Let other people to go and say no, because that gives me the energy, that gives me the hope I need to fight and to try to do something. I am 51% optimist, but I am very aware that probably we're going to lose a lot of things in that path. So as a 51% optimist, what are your plans for the future? Well, during the last two years, I have been involved in a project with National Geographic. And it was very interesting because they put together seven teams of people working from the Andes in Peru to the mouth of the Amazon in the Atlantic.

And we were creating teams with storytellers, education people, scientists. And I think we need to connect people from other parts of the planet. We need to understand that regions like the Antarctic, the Arctic, the Congo, the Amazon are important for the planet, and we need to embrace the conservation of these areas. My focus in the next two years is to try to create and replicate positive actions in different regions of the Amazon, in different countries, and create a network of these songs of hope in the Amazon. If we can do this, we can start to scale at different levels in different countries. Tell us, how can people support your work? Well, we are an NGO. We need a donation in funding.

Sometimes people doing voluntary job. So we have a center of conservation in the Amazon, voluntary to stay another couple of months. For example, we work with the indigenous community. So we want people to teach them in different things like administration or how to present projects or proposals, trying to do something. For example, I think we need to create the cities of the future in the Amazon with solutions using sustainable energy. We can do it. We need to create these examples. We need to create this hope in the region.

And I think it will be worthy if people, companies invest in this and they can see changes, positive changes. Fernando, we have loved this conversation with you. And we have one final question. What does the word hope mean to you? Well, I think it's a deepest desire that something positive happen. And in my case, probably is that we humans understand the needs to protect our planet. This is my main hope. We are not aware that we are part of the

nature. When you ask the people on the street, what is the most important things in this planet? More people will say, well, the price of the dollars going down or going down. And the most important things in this planet. More people will say, well, the price of the dollars going down or going down. And the most important things is the photosynthesis and the pollinization. If we don't have photosynthesis, we don't have oxygen in the planet. If we don't have pollinization, we don't have food in the planet. But the people are very, very far away to understand that. We need to broken the bubbles where we live in the cities and to understand that the extinction will be for humans. The planet probably will survive. We need to think about how do we define success. We need to think about how do we define success.

And I think in a species level, we need to put all our best minds, economic minds, to design a different system because all the others have failed. We need to think in a different way, in a different way to survive and to have better lives. And we need to keep fighting with actions, trying to produce positive changes. It's hard to hear that there are no guarantees,

that even after decades of effort, we may still lose these incredible species. But what Fernando shows us is that we can use this uncertainty to keep going to fight harder and to really use hope as a verb because regardless of what the outcome is when we look back on this moment in years to come we want to be able to say that at least we gave it our all. If you want to find out more about Fernando and support the incredible work that he's doing you You can check out our podcast notes for all the details. We'd like to thank our paying subscribers for making projects like

this podcast possible. If you're interested in finding out more about our work, check out fixthenews.com. There are a lot of podcasts out there. It means a lot to us that you chose this one. This podcast is recorded in Australia on the lands of the Gadigal and the Wurundjeri and Woiwurrung people. If you enjoyed this conversation and would like to support Hope as a Verb, make sure you subscribe and leave a review.