Hope Is A Verb - Flora Vano - Rising seas, women rising

Episode Date: December 19, 2023

Meet Flora Vano, a climate activist who has rallied a female-led response to the climate crisis in Vanuatu. Fighting climate change with female empowerment, Flora has taken her mission to the global stage, including the recent COP28. FIND OUT MORE ABOUT FLORA'S WORK: help.actionaid.org.au/vanuatu This episode of Hope Is A Verb was hosted by Angus Hervey, cofounder of Future Crunch and Amy Davoren-Rose, creative director. The soundtrack for this podcast is "Rain" composed and performed by ⁠⁠⁠El Rey Miel ⁠⁠⁠from their upcoming album "Sea the Sky." Audio Sweetening by Anthony Badolato- ⁠⁠⁠Ai3 Audio and Voice⁠⁠⁠. You can contact us at: [e-mail]

Welcome to Season 2 of Hope is a Verb, a podcast that explores what it takes to change the world through conversations with the people that are making it happen. I'm Amy. I'm Gus, and these are the unknown heroes who are mending our planet, stitching together a better future, and showing us the best of what it means to be human. We wanted a world free of these terrible cyclones. But I don't think that's a simple ask. We need greater voices to make that happen with our world leaders.

I just want Vanuatu there for the next three, four decades. And if I can do something, that's my hope, is to get every message that I had to the world, to anybody who listens. But if there are spaces in which they can support, please support the cause because it means a lot. And it's my life. There are a lot of stories about climate change in the news,

but its impact on the islands in the Pacific Ocean is often missing from the headlines. Countries like Vanuatu are on the front line of rising sea levels, flash flooding, and are often left to pick up the pieces from one natural disaster after another. However, climate activist Flora Vanu is bringing these stories to the world's attention and fighting to raise the voices of thousands of women across Vanuatu who are bearing the brunt of this crisis, yet often excluded from decision-making spaces. Through her work with ActionAid, Flora is empowering the women in her country with initiatives like the Women Wet and Wetter, a network of women that monitor the weather and use mobile phone technology to share early warnings, giving them the tools to protect their communities. Over the past eight years, her fight for climate justice has created a wave of the kind of broad social change that's necessary if we want to build a more inclusive and sustainable world. We caught up with Flora on her way to COP28,

and the conversation ended up being about so much more than we were expecting. We're really happy to be able to share it with you. Flora, welcome to Hope is a Verb. We are so pleased to have you on the podcast. Thank you for taking the time to speak to us. Thank you, Kaz. Nice to be here. On the eve of your departure to COP28, you're about to head off to this international gathering of the great and the good and this big global conversation that takes place every year. Is there a news story or any kind of story that is giving you hope right now?

Seeing in the news the number of protests that is taking place around the world and young people taking climate actions, even demanding governments to face out of fossil fuel, that brings me hope. And to stand along with the voices of other 9,000 women that I will be bringing to COP fighting for climate justice. Going there, it gives me hope that there's a lot more of the good peoples out there who are standing in solidarity. My hope is if I am going to voice the concern of 9,000 sisters. I just hope the world leaders listen to us.

And you're speaking of these 9,000 women who you're representing at COP. You and all of these women and millions of people, certainly across the Pacific, really are on the front lines of something that many people talk about, but maybe not as many people have a lived experience of. That's been very true for you this year. In March, I think not one, but two cyclones hit Vanuatu. Can you tell us a little bit more about what that's been like and

what the response has been? This year alone with the twin cyclone, we were preparing for only one. We were not aware that we will be hit by two cyclones within one week. We've seen worse this year, but in the face of all this crisis, the women, they have rised up to the leadership role that we've been training them all these years as an investment of around eight years on how to respond and prepare for anything that comes. We had this information platform called Woman Wet and Weather, which give us early warning alert. And then we have simplified that into the women's languages and dialogue. So if the department is telling us you will have gale force wind, it will be 45 to 65 knots an hour. Women in the community, they don't know what gale force winds are.

But if you describe it to them in a way that big trees in your houses, those branches will fall at that level of wind. And if they've got canoes, they have to move the canoes up further into the land so then the current won't take it off. Those are not things that comes out from the Meteor Department directly to the women. So from the network of 9,000 women, we were able to translate it very simple for them to understand that it means collecting your water, have some food in store, get your emergency basket ready. So there's that level of preparedness that we have trained women on. And when you are doing it for one cyclone and you are picking up and putting everything back and there comes another off cyclone.

And this off cyclone hits you and then you got in islands where there are volcanoes, those will come into play. It will hit you on top of what you've already been getting. Been exhausted in a lot of this cyclone throughout this year, the twin and the Lola one and the Ashfall. It's just getting us more exhausted. And I hope that in time to come, I won't be feeling that I won't be talking the same narrative that I'm talking because I know that there are sisters out there, brothers out there and families out there that will listen and stand in solidarity with me to help these voices out. Flora, when you talk about these voices, it really goes straight to

the heart of your work, which is the empowerment of women, especially in the face of the climate crisis. Why are women such powerful agents of change? I would say that we are mothers, we are carers, we are nurses, we are teachers, we can ignite prosperity, we can ignite conflict, and we are agents of change. The way we groom our kids to become who they are, we've played a role in our household and we have seen changes. But in our communities, we are not meant for great things. We are not meant for transformation in the community. We are not meant for changes. When you say that in your community you are not meant for greatness, what does that mean?

We are a patriarchal country. Men will always be the head of the household. All of our islands, we were not allowed to sit in any decision-making spaces. And if someone comes in to work with the women, they will have to go through the men. I'll share an example. I went to one of the community and they told me, who's your spokes spokesman and because we are all female they tend to the driver I randomly pick on my way to the community and they start talking to the driver because he's a male person I was like okay um is he gonna talk to us because he's addressing the driver. And you can, like, annoyance. We were like, ooh, okay.

He asked the driver, what's the purpose of your visit? And the driver turned to this guy and said, I'm sorry, I'm just a driver, but you need to talk to this woman. And so he looked at us and said, where is your spokesperson? And then I said, what spokesperson? You're looking at it. I said, but you do not wear pants. You're a female.

And that was a shock to them because all this time, it's only men entering their communities, no women. Women just wanted to feel someone can hear them. And it's that space that we provided, a safe space that allows that to happen, to say our own narrative, to let the community know about what us women would also want. We've broken barriers. We've shaken the roots. We've done amazing stuff,

but those amazing stuff comes with a lot of backlashes as well. In some of those cases, you feel like, is it worth it? That's some of those questions that comes in because it's really heartbreaking when you hear that they will actually threaten their wife not to even come close to where we are. Flora, I'm interested in how, maybe unexpectedly, your work in environmental justice has led to these opportunities for greater social justice, especially in the gender space. Because of the disasters, it brings us an opportunity to engage with the women and tell them about their rights and the spirit of sisterhood and let them know that you are not alone. You've got other sisters that are willing to stand for you and help you out.

So I think that just gives them a new hope in which they can mentor their daughters up well. So that space just gives them the sense of belonging and sense of hope and that they can lead their own response. They're transforming their own homes and transforming their own community. This is really interesting because we have reported on quite a few conservation stories this year in our newsletter that have focused on the empowerment of women and it's amazing to see more and more of these stories popping up. What I'm interested in though, is what does it actually take to encourage women to step up and speak up, especially when you're working against decades, even centuries of social conditioning?

Do you have any stories from your own personal experience that you can share? Oh, I've got so many stories. For example, when we went in one tropical cycle in Harold, we met with 167 women and we keep telling them, do you know where to get food cuttings to replant now, seedlings to plant now? And they said, no, those are main things. We don't know. I said, but who do the gardening? We do. Where the money goes to? Oh no, they get the money at the end. I said, ah, not this time. Let's make the change. We'll need 15 of you with me. We go and see the government. And they said, oh, no, no, no, no. This is very high official places. They keep stalling me for a whole day. And we have to get an open cart vehicle from the village down to the water.

And then we get a banana boat across to the mainland. And then we get another open cart vehicle. And then when we reached down and told the ladies, we got five minutes and we are going in. Now, everyone were nervous. I could see them doing this. They were holding us. They were telling me, are you sure we will have to go in? Because they are scared. They've never been into government offices. I told them, each one of you, I'll just say your name and where you come from. Just these two words. They were all practicing how to even talk just to this one person because they were so scared. So I went in and the secretary general of province asked me, so what do you want?

Are you coming with any news? Do you want a meeting with me? I said, absolutely. Well, not me, but your women in the smaller island. And then he said, oh, I've never met them. I said, good. now you will meet them. Now you will meet them. And then he looked at me and he said,

with this small office, we will only require two. I said, oh, okay, no problem. I'll be back. I went out and I said, the SG invites everybody in to come now. He was sitting inside. He could see all these women walking in and he looked at me. I said,

SG, I don't know. I just said two and they're all here now. So might as well. He just looked confused and he looked at all these women. The women are sweating. They were really, really nervous on how to address whoever is sitting on that chair. He was like, well, this office belongs to both men and women. And I could feel they were like the air of relief comes out from them. They came out, they hold me and say, thank you, thank you. We would never know him. Some of them are grandmas and some of them are holding crutches. And they said, we were never told our voices are important.

We were only told that we will be at home cooking and looking after kids those breakthroughs they make the moment after they went there they went to the agriculture department and i told them go and negotiate for cuttings they have so that we will do the replant moments like that must feel so rewarding yes we've done a lot and i've seen great things happen from the women how they change from two words to now we couldn't stop them anymore when they're talking so you can see that they have that ownership like they take it with them in one instant we asked one of the ladies when you were doing the replanting of mangroves because of the sea coastal erosion, what did your husband do? She said, the husband is looking after the kids.

That wasn't a narrative eight years ago. We have seen that the changes happen from home and then it trickles down to the community and it goes to the national spaces as well. This intersection in Flora's work, and I use that word very deliberately, between environmental justice and social justice, reminds me of a conversation we had in season one with Wangira Matai about the Green Belt movement in Africa that was started by her mother, Wanjira Matai, who won the Nobel Prize campaigning on the same topic.

She was one of the first people to recognize that peace and environmental restoration go hand in hand. And it really shows how interconnected all of these things are. And also how one piece of progress can ripple out and create a much bigger impact. As you're about to hear, Flora's personal story is as inspiring as the work she's doing. It's a beautiful reminder about what it takes to show up and more importantly, to keep on going. and more importantly, to keep on going.

Flora, there is so much in your work. Listening to you speak, it's so much bigger than what you ever can get a sense of by reading this on a piece of paper. You are a leader in your country and also on the global stage. What lit this fire in you? And were there women in your family or somebody in your childhood that was a role model for you? From a younger age, I loved the coastal area. I'm an ocean person.

And I plays in the ocean. The day I start swimming is when they just drop me off on a canoe and tell me to swim. And so that's when I said, if I can survive it, then this is like my second home. And I usually find peace in seawater and coastal area. And my mom is one of the role model that always stand there. She would let me play with anything from, you know, girl stuff to even boy stuff.

Whereas some mothers won't. They will just tell their daughters to learn how to cook. Because you have to be a good wife to your husband. But I haven't found that when I was brought up with my mom. I've grown up with stepdad. And I really understand kids that are having a single parent and also moving to a new house. And because I'm the old one out, she always got blamed in anything I did. So I wanted to make sure that she won't be blamed

no more. And I wanted for her to have a peaceful life when I'm grown up. And I wanted to make change for a lot of other women. I don't want women to go through hardship like what my mom had gone through. And I think that was one of the pillars that stood out strongly for me. And I hold it close to my heart. And I work to the best of my abilities to make sure that other women shouldn't be facing that. We wanted to stand in solidarity and find that same common goals where we wanted to live free from violence and then stand up for ourselves and be able to challenge the norms. So Flora, you've had this strong sense of social justice and gender justice instilled within you growing up and from a young age. Can you tell us more about your discovery of climate change and the effects of climate change?

And I'm really interested to know, how do you go from just learning about climate change to actually wanting to do something about it? I think I would put myself back when in school. We usually have a segment growing up in school that you have to come up with a topic every morning. You need to listen to the radio and get the news that is for today. I love nature. So any topic that comes out for me, I would really love to be the one talking about plants and animals and sea, anything from the sea. So that urged me to always listen to the radio. But I do not take things from Vanuatu.

I love the international news lines. I'd like to listen to PPC, ABC. We don't own radios at home, so I can only have that access going on a bus to school. going on a bus to school. And so getting information from there and then seeing the changes pattern in my community where I live, I could tell that whatever they're saying on the radio is translating to what we have here. Things are not the same. There's less fishes. I have to go on a canoe and move further to fish so I can get the same. It's no longer found near. I thought this is just normal. And then I started to work myself through school and then get into institutions. And then I worked in a tourism sector. The resorts that I'm working in is

actually on the coastal and we need to have nice snorkeling places. And in order to do that, they need to have nice reefs and corals. And we were seeing that from the time we started, there are lots of nice reefs. There's plentiful corals. But then over time, nothing. Then I learned that, no, that is part of climate change. So from a tourism point of view and a business environment, this is where a lot of women gain their money from.

They got shells there, they got corals, they can paint, they do their artwork and they sell at the market and get income. For me, this is what climate change keep appearing. And I said, OK, there's a lot of destruction it can cost us. There's no way we can get the hang of it on how to deal with it. And then when we got the cyclone, the tropical cyclone, actually it came in and worked in the humanitarian sector. And one thing they were talking about is more climate justice.

And I was like, hmm, this climate justice? I need to know more about this climate justice. I only know about these natural things getting extinct and we are rehabilitating it. But I didn't know there's something called climate justice. So when they are opening their position and I was like, can I, you know, go for it? And the first thing I went in as Action 8 being in the office is I'm looking after the office because that was part of my profession is managing and HR. And I'm thankful because of Cyclone Pam,

ActionAid enters and it gives me a whole new perspective on how to look at climate change. And now I'm a champion climate change activist and it also provides me a platform in which I can talk to protection issues because it's a very sensitive, taboo issue in all our villages. Women are not allowed to talk about their problems and their husband.

You don't do that. If you do that, they hear you, you will be put in meetings with every elder around you and they will tell you off and how bad you are and how useless you are and all these negative words they'll do to you. But I think from the climate change platform, it elevates women's right, women's leadership, women's collective voices. We are all in one and we hold hands and we were battling it all together. But because we are doing it right, the violence is decreasing, and that is because of climate change.

It's given me a full new agenda that through women we can make a lot of things possible. Flora, it's so interesting hearing you talk about this intersection between environmental justice and social justice. There's a third thing that I'm really curious about, and that is the role of technology. Because it seems to me that 20 years ago, or maybe even 10 years ago, what you are doing with these networks, with Women Wet and Wetter, the Talk Talk Together forums, it wouldn't have maybe been possible. So can you tell us a little bit more about technology and what it's allowed you to do? We have been able to make sure that women in our community, so in the islands we work with, have a cell phone. And not any cell phone, a smartphone. We call it a smartphone. Most of

them do not own phone when we started that because only the husband owns the phone. we started that because only the husband owns the phone. It brings insecurity for men first because they said, why is now she has a fancy phone and I've got a brick phone. Those conversations, we caught it at first. So I'll have numerous phone calls telling me off about the phone that I just given it to the wife. And I told them, are you a lady or is your wife the lady of the house? You are the man, right? I said, yes, I'm the man. So if you are the man, then you play your role as the head. Leave the women alone. She is the information provider. She will provide you with information with this device. And some of the women, for us to get them to where they are now, it needs a whole year just for them to try and press.

They said, hey, our fingers are only good for knives. Now you're telling us to press those buttons, and some of those buttons didn't come out clearly. So there are trainings we have to put into. We have to train them for just a simple call and off phone first. Once they get to know that, then we move to how you take a picture. A lot of them are illiterate. They can take pictures, but some of them said, I cannot write.

And we respect that. But you send us pictures and we call you up and you tell us what is this picture about and we write. So there are things that we went an extra mile to get that mile over time when they get to know that they can call they will call me 21 times in a day one person I said yeah you you send it already I've seen it and they were like I just need to call you to say did you see and yeah it became that for me at the first year. But then we went through it because the second year, they now know that, okay, you don't need to call me each time you send something.

You can send and then you give me time. And then when I see it, then I can call you, especially for those who do not know how to write. So it was an excitement for them in their world. It's really good to see that their face beaming when they got a technology, a device on their hand. And using Woman Weather Watch has transformed our life as well for communication. It is a feedback loop that after we train women, now the information passed from the government comes to the hub and it goes through them. And then they just hit the button and it's sent to all the other women in their network in each island. Women that don't have phones, they move

from where they are with the information, they walk to the next village and tell the next village that now it's prepared. Do this, do that. The early actions they did will help save their communities because they prepared the food crop, they prepared the garden, their livestock. So they have all the tools. We've given them everything. We just need to make sure that they're supported. Flora, I feel like women are such good multitaskers anyway, but you have taken this to a whole new level with the work that you do. Is there something that you know now that you wish you had have known at the beginning of this journey? I didn't know that women have the same right as men. When I started my career to be part of ActionAid team, I get to know that I've been missing out

in a lot of things. I didn't know that I can change a lot of lives 15 years back. I just known it when I get here. But I think by knowing it, it makes me more fierce and tell me, it actually set my goals for me that I need to have every woman knows that they are unique, they are important, they are valued, they are worth. And they can make a change in their own homes and they can make a change in the next generations. If I had known, I would be telling my mom, there's a thing, you know, safe place that you can, but because I did not know, I've seen her suffer.

So now that I know there are services and spaces provided, I want everybody, every woman to know. Not only me, I want all women. And we only got 9,000. Our population is 300,000. We still don't have women in Parliament. Well, we got one woman in Parliament, but it's difficult when you are one woman

among 51 members of Parliament. But if we got more women in those spaces, I think it would be really fantastic. And for me, women's rights and gender equality and climate justice, that would be something I would take until when the Lord said, you are out of this world, you're coming back, then I've done my part, yeah.

Flora, we've loved chatting with you today and we really appreciate that you have taken the time. Before we let you go, we would really like to know what does the word hope mean to you? Hope means a lot to me. If I did not see a light in the other tunnel, I wouldn't be where I am now. the other tunnel, I wouldn't be where I am now. If I did not believe that I can do it, I wouldn't be where I am now. And the actions I made or the team made or the women made will actually be what they will be receiving at the end. So a lot of times we will be talking to each other and saying, what do we want for us? What is it there? Everyone would say to be able to see another day tomorrow. That's a hope. We don't want any more

cyclone to come. That's a hope. But we can't say there's no more because the scientists tell us there'll be another four to seven cyclone coming through. Fourteen in the Pacific, but four was especially for Vanuatu alone. We want a world free of these terrible cyclones. But I don't think that's a simple ask. It will need greater voices to make that happen with our world leaders. I just want Vanuatu there for the next three, four decades. And if I can do something, that's my hope is to get every message that I had to the world, to anybody who listens. But if there are spaces in which they can support, please support the cause because it means a lot.

And it's my life. There's a lot to take away here. The power of hope, of action and of creating spaces where we can speak up and truly listen to each other. Flora shows us that we can rewrite not just our personal stories but the stories of the communities we live in and even the world. If you'd like to support Flora's work, we've added a link to ActionAid in our show notes.

We'd really like to thank our paying subscribers for making inspiring conversations like this possible. If you'd like to find out more about supporting us and becoming a paid subscriber, check out futurecrunch.com. check out futurecrunch.com. This podcast is recorded in Australia on the lands of the Gadigal, Wurundjeri and Woiwurrung people. There are a lot of podcasts out there. It means a lot to us that you chose this one.

If you enjoyed this episode and you would like to support Hope as a Verb, please subscribe and leave a review. And if you want to reach out directly, email us at hope at futurecrunch.com.au. Thanks for listening.