Hope Is A Verb - Grain of Hope – How Australian Farmers Are Tackling Global Hunger

Episode Date: April 15, 2026

What happens when two friends in rural Australia take on the global hunger crisis? Meet Rob Houghton and Ken Dachi - a third-generation farmer and a multicultural advisor from Leeton, NSW - w...ho turned a single conversation into Grain of Hope: a grassroots initiative shipping Australian wheat to Sudan, where millions face displacement and acute malnutrition.(We’ve linked ways to support their work below.)Rob & Ken share the reality of delivering 100 tonnes of grain into a crisis zone - from complex logistics and rising fuel costs to working outside traditional aid systems. Backed by a groundswell of public support, Grain of Hope challenges the idea that global hunger is too big to tackle and shows what’s possible when ordinary people decide to act.  In this episode:·      How Grain of Hope started with a single conversation·      The real cost of shipping food aid·      Why Sudan - and why now·      What works (and doesn’t) in traditional aid·      The power of multiculturalism·      From emergency aid to long-term food systems·      What it takes to act on global problems from a local placeTimestamps: 00:40 Why This Story Matters 02:33 Meeting Ken and Rob 03:06 The Real Challenges 05:11 From Idea to Mission 06:49 Why Sudan, Why Now 09:06 Community Backs Grain of Hope 14:30 Leeton: The UN of Country Towns 17:04 Stubborn Vision, Flexible Details 19:20 Growing Food vs Moving Systems 21:54 The Team behind Grain of Hope 24:39 Five-Year Vision and Self-Sufficiency 29:21 How You Can Help 31:06 Remedies for a Hard World 32:24 Amy & Gus Reflect and Wrap Up 34:21 Credits and SubscribeSupport Grain of Hope: If you want to help get this shipment to Sudan - or support future projects - you can find out more below.👉 FTN Story 👉 DonateAbout Fix The News: Fix The News is a solutions-focused media platform sharing stories from the frontlines of progress - exploring what’s working in the world and the people making it happen.Subscribe & follow: If you enjoyed this episode, follow the podcast and leave a review - it helps more people find these stories.Production credits: Hosted by Angus Hervey and Amy Davoren-Rose Produced by Fix The News Audio production: Anthony Badolato, Hear That! This episode was produced in Australia on the lands of the Gadigal, Wurundjeri and Woi Wurrung peoples. 

Transcript
Discussion (0)
Starting point is 00:00:05 Here's an opportunity for us little farmers to contribute what we produce, and that is so powerful for ordinary people to do something that will have such an impact. Welcome to Fix the News. I'm Amy. I'm Gus, and these are stories from the front lines of progress. Who first told you about this story? It was my best friend's husband, Tim. He just sent me a text message. and he said, I've just met this group of Aussie farmers who want to ship a hundred
Starting point is 00:01:02 ton of grain to Sudan. Can you have a chat with them? I remember you called them. It was around that time of the Bondi shooting and you called me and you were like, I have just got off the most extraordinary call with these people. You were so fired up and you said, I don't know, there's something here. And then at the beginning of this year, he said to me, I have to write this story up. The world needs to know this story. And you published it on our website. We got a huge response.
Starting point is 00:01:32 And now we're speaking to them. I was trying to think how I would describe this conversation. And the best word I keep coming up with is it's a complete experiment. You've got this group of farmers who want to ship all this grain to places in the world to deal with a global food crisis. and they're doing it outside the normal channels. They don't want to wait for government. But also for us, it's an experiment
Starting point is 00:02:00 because we usually report on progress at the other end, on the outcomes of progress. And I was thinking even the people that we talk to on this podcast, by the time we're sitting in conversation with them, they are 10, 20 years into doing their work. And this part of their journey is like a footnote. And so it's really interesting for us to dive into this part of what could become a much bigger story of progress. Well, you've spoken a lot about Ken and Rob. I can't wait to meet them.
Starting point is 00:02:39 Traditionally, what happens here is Ken will turn up probably the same time as I come in from work and I'll open the fridge and put a few things together. And it's never the same. Has it ever been saying? No, no, no, no. We've had prawns, we've had fish, prawns. Oh, we've got steak. Oh, we've had steak. We've had a homegrown lamb. Well, my knife's lamb.
Starting point is 00:02:59 Wow. Got to get my full pose on every Friday. Who normally cooks for who? I cook for Ken and Ken cleans up. I like it. So the foundations of a really good partnership were there right from the beginning. Okay, so when I first spoke to you both, it was a small group of six people with this big vision.
Starting point is 00:03:17 we're now further ahead in the whole journey. What has been harder than you would have expected it to be? That's your favourite, favourite question. Number one has definitely been keeping the food up to Ken on our regular weekly meetings. It's a big challenge. We've had to buy a new bridge. I've beaten that challenge. Well done.
Starting point is 00:03:49 It is, thank you. It has been a journey that has just thrown up massive challenges. I started out thinking, well, we'll donate the grain and it'll just get snapped up. And by January, the people are going to have food. I quickly found out that the cost of getting that grain on that long, long journey across the ocean and to the destination port and then milled and distributed is very, very, extensive. So I think we've done the numbers on pre-uran war around $2,900 a tonne. The donation of grain is 10% of that. So we quickly found out that we need to do more work. And to be honest,
Starting point is 00:04:31 I've loved every bit of that journey because you can't expect to get a good outcome without some disappointment. And disappointment turns into determination, particularly when you've got a group that we've got who support each other. A big surprise was that the government weren't going to jump on board. We thought, well, that's one door that we've knocked on, but it hasn't delivered, so we'll move on. The biggest positive is that the general public, the mums and dads, everyone was spoken to, everyone that's had exposure to this project, a grain of hope, overwhelmingly support it 100%. That's the real driver, that community support. It really gives us confidence that we're doing the right thing and we know we're going to get it done. Can you have experience
Starting point is 00:05:18 in international development? And this whole thing started with a conversation on Rob's Farm, where you guys are right now. What point did this conversation about shipping at the time it was 500 ton of wheat? When was it not just a crazy idea? When did it actually become a possibility? The approach that is quintessential rob and myself is you just have to make it happen. So I remember the conclusion of that initial conversation. I knew instantly we needed to build a network of friends, colleagues, a team essentially,
Starting point is 00:06:00 and then work out the details. There was an inevitability to it in the sense that it is the right thing to do. and we had the opportunity to take it up. And one driving force amongst many is to act responsibly with the privilege we do have. Even for ourselves who are primarily involved in how the vision is coming to life,
Starting point is 00:06:26 at times even almost second-guessing ourselves, what have we taken out? We should have just been chilling at the pool, you know? But now, when you're looking at, over 20 countries facing the threat of acute malnutrition, the trigger there is to ask yourself with the privilege that accompanies your day-to-day living. You need to respond.
Starting point is 00:06:55 I'm listening to both of you talk over here, and just stick with me. It's making me think of Lord of the Rings. You know, in that the fellowship at the council, and Borromeo says, one does not simply just walk into Mordor, you know, it's black gates a guard by more than just orcs. And I'm sitting here thinking,
Starting point is 00:07:14 you've kind of gathered the fellowship and you've got this mission, but the question that's playing in my mind is one does not simply have lunch with a friend and then decide that you're going to ship hundreds of tons of grain to Sudan. Why on earth are you guys even considering it? You have to look at contours of a friendship and the conversations that flow in and out for a few years now, there have been various things we've discussed,
Starting point is 00:07:41 and quite a number of conversations have been here on the farm. When you think about the way life is sustained through sustainable food production, it just opens the landscape and you're able to explore different dimensions of what that means. So there were building blocks before that moment. And I think for any idea whose time does, arrived, it was a moment that just sparked
Starting point is 00:08:09 it basically used the foundation that already been there. It's not that I would say we explicitly talked about Sudan and the nations of the world. We generally would look at, you know, issues of life, issues of war, issues of conflict, issues of governance, the same way you'd want to reckon with the way the world is going. I think then what changed... was that the flavor of conversation came to that space
Starting point is 00:08:39 where we had to think, what does responsible action look like? You have to do something about it. And I remember how determined Rob was in that conversation. It was like, we're doing this. So then, for me, it was like, whoa. It's huge. Like, I've been a participant in this work,
Starting point is 00:09:04 but in a very small fraction. So to say we are leading it, indeed your image of the Lord of the Rings is more than accurate. It has been a couple of weeks since we published your story and you've had incredible support from all around the world, which is really energising, but I'm guessing it also raises the stakes for you guys. We often talk about biting off more than you can chew, and we feel that responsibility of now dealing with, with other people's money as well as grain.
Starting point is 00:09:39 And at the other end, people's livelihood, their ability to survive another day, the gravity of all that isn't lost with Ken and all. And to be honest, it adds to the excitement of what we're doing because we can't just say, oh, it was a good idea, it was a bit of fun, but it's getting too hard. We're at the time now where people have committed and we need to show them that grain of hope
Starting point is 00:10:05 is a good investment. So now it's game on and we need to make this work. There's always an escape route. There's always another option that would be easier would be to cash it all and give our money to World Food Programme and let them do their thing. But then we haven't got a story.
Starting point is 00:10:24 And the reason people are engaged in this story is about the ordinariness of Ken and I and our meager offering without relying on government, without relying on any other corporation to come in and take over, we are destined to get this 100 ton of wheat to the beneficiary, and that's our charter.
Starting point is 00:10:47 Okay, I am really curious to know what has the reaction been like in the place you live, which is Leighton? What are people's response when they hear about the idea? Without exception, the response has been extremely positive. And our timing hasn't been perfect, because we thought it would take six weeks or so to get an association registered, have our NGR status and we'll start to be able to receive rain
Starting point is 00:11:14 and make things happen prior to the harvest commencing. And then what happened was it took so long that harvest has well truly been done and dusted. And we missed that golden opportunity to go out further afield and secure a bigger parcel of wheat. So what we ended up with was 100 tonne from neighbouring farms and friends of mine who jumped on board straight away without any hesitation. World hunger is such a massive problem. We're involved in the food production game. And as a young farmer, I always used to think, well, why is there people starving?
Starting point is 00:11:51 We're producing this high quality of food year in, year out. And it doesn't seem to be getting to the right people. but we haven't got the opportunity. We're not big enough. There are other organisations doing a great job, but still there are people starving and massive numbers. So the numbers in Sudan are incredibly high.
Starting point is 00:12:12 There's 13 million people in displacement camps. They have this is acute malnutrition. That's not knowing where your next feed is coming from for up to a week or more, feeding your children dirt. so they've got something in their tummy. That's the reality of the other end of this. Here's an opportunity for us little farmers
Starting point is 00:12:35 to contribute what we produce, and that is so powerful. For ordinary people to do something that will have such an impact at the other end is without doubt the most important project I've been involved in my farming career. What obviously comes through is that sense of determination there was the line in there that disappointment leads to determination, which I love.
Starting point is 00:13:11 But I think what's also interesting is that if the vision is strong enough and the idea is good enough, nothing can stop you. The other thing that I think has been really interesting, which I wasn't expecting from this conversation, was that it didn't kind of spring from nowhere. It was based on layers and layers of conversation and connection and meaning. I found that really powerful because we don't often hear about that when we are looking at the origin stories behind a lot of the big initiatives that we see in the world. And I think, too, the role that the town itself played,
Starting point is 00:13:41 Leighton is a town that has a history of immigration and migrants dating back to the 30s, the soil was really good soil for this kind of initiative to sprout. If the town wasn't the kind of town it was, maybe this friendship wouldn't have happened in the same way. What I love what you just said there is, soil, the soil literally and figuratively and spiritually was all correct for this to happen. I think you've hit on something really powerful there.
Starting point is 00:14:14 It really encourages us to create more of these environments. If we start creating more of these environments around the world, then more of this stuff is going to start happening. I just want to chat a little about Leighton because we're talking about a country town that is five hours west of Sydney. Most people would assume you're so removed from the rest of the world. But in reality, it's the United Nations of country towns. Can you tell us a little bit about it?
Starting point is 00:14:58 You've probably picked up by now that Ken and I are different in many ways. The Lord of the Rings analogy, and I be gollum, I feel like. I don't know what that makes Ken. Ken's an elf. So the diversity is just sitting here. The goal that comes out of Ken and my relationship happens throughout our community because you're meeting people at the gym.
Starting point is 00:15:30 You're meeting people walking up the street, in shops, in supermarkets, picking them up on the side of the road and having a chat with them as you drop them off to their workplace. It is so rich and diverse. and you learn so much from people from other parts of the world. I mean, it's not without its challenges, but ultimately it brings richness into our community.
Starting point is 00:15:53 How about for you, Ken? So it's been seven years here now. If you look at the social landscape across a small town, 11,000 people, and you look at the economic pathways that bring lots of people into town. Most often, why economic, around skill shortages, around expansion of industry, manufacturing, and otherwise. You then begin to see arrivals from every corner of the planet. I remember those early days there was a community worker based out of the local government.
Starting point is 00:16:33 Often would have to compute statistics around the local population. Those days, we're looking about 30-odd nationalities. now that has shot up. You know, you folks from everywhere. I think every continent is represented in this very small town. You can meet someone from the Cook Islands in the morning and maybe in the evening. You meet someone from Zimbabwe. You meet someone from Europe, someone from South America,
Starting point is 00:17:02 which is that essential mix, if you want, as an ingredient of the community has been transformative. to you. It just strikes me while both of you were speaking there. This is not an initiative that has asked permission really. And I just wonder whether Ken, as a Kenian person, where you're used to government not really stepping up to the plate, but there is also the go-it-alone Australian attitude. They'll get it done, no worries, no matter what happens. How do you think those worlds come together in what you're doing here? So, because I've been on a journey in life, when I've been around the block. There is the idea of resolve and conviction.
Starting point is 00:17:43 And I don't think this is with any bias towards geography. When you are persuaded deeply that you need to act responsibly, then no amount of opposition can ever discourage you. But at times you think you who's coming with a portion of aid, is doing the more important work. But you come up with very striking lessons about human endurance, persistence, and never giving up attitude.
Starting point is 00:18:18 There are folks there in Sudan who have such deep resolve to survive, but I cannot even remotely imagine. And so I bring all this to the boil and say to myself, you can never have another chance just to boldly go after an objective. And I came across a quote from a prominent businessman
Starting point is 00:18:42 that says being stubborn on the vision and flexible on detail. So then I've taken that as my mantra. For example, we never anticipated skyrocketing oil prices. And so we were just chatting earlier on that then will mobilize all the farmers with their grain to jump into a respective trucks and drive it to Melbourne. That's it. it's a story, it's great, gets us a hundred metric trans we want to ship, and we'll do it.
Starting point is 00:19:10 Well, said, Ken. I'm full of admiration for the people of Sudan, who, through no fault of their own, are in a situation of desperation and they are not willing to give up. And either are we. Ken, in your line of work, you have dealt with people and systems and organizations. And Rob, obviously you deal with people too. but also you grow food. And it's interesting to me now that, Ken,
Starting point is 00:19:40 you're now dealing with food and shipments and growth. And likewise, Rob, you're now in the world of systems and people and making things move. What's harder? Growing things or getting people to do something? Growing things is so easy. I don't know about getting people to do things, but getting systems in place that work efficiently
Starting point is 00:20:02 and can be repeated. year in, year out. So we've got our eye on the future as well as what we're doing with this one small parcel. If we're dealing with a million ton of wheat, it would be a massive undertaking to do it first time over. I think the challenges that we've had have knocked us down a peg or two to get that smaller parcel of wheat through to the beneficiary. And I think that's, in hindsight, a blessing because we can try things out and it's not going to break the bank. Ken, what about you? What have you learned in the last year? I've spent quite a bit of time here on the farm
Starting point is 00:20:38 and I just, I find the science behind it very, very complex. When I go around the farm, I see how much work does go in to producing food. I'm in all of that. So my forte is to build teams and to effectively find our lives. What I'm discovering is expected potentials don't quite work up. And here I'm just framing it, government. I don't think they always come on board as obvious partners. And so what really enthuses me about all this is that it's a movement of ordinary people.
Starting point is 00:21:18 And in my work, nothing beats that. Once you mobilize at the grassroots and find allies there, government will come later. And look, is it easy? Absolutely not. The easier things to do in life. In fact, the other day was, hey, if this was a business idea, it would have been a catastrophic fame. Would have all been fired.
Starting point is 00:21:42 No, we wouldn't have started. We wouldn't have started it. We would have been two days in. Yeah. Yeah. This is bad business money. But look, we are after the goal of sustaining life. And they can never be a better piece of work to do than that.
Starting point is 00:22:00 I have to ask, you guys are really good mates. You already were good mates before you started all of this. What have you learned about each other over the last seven months? Oh, Ken. That you have to start me, you keep your food every Friday, man. I run into Ken, and Ken's easier to pick out of a craft here in Leighton. So I do a lot of bike riding And I'm riding along with my bike rides on a Saturday morning
Starting point is 00:22:34 And here's Ken doing his Saturday morning job And everyone in the bike who says Here comes Ken, here's Ken, here's Ken. And then we yell out to Ken. Ken's loud, he doesn't need a megaphone. He just says something funny That's just about, mate, creates an accident in our cycle group every time.
Starting point is 00:22:53 But you know with Ken you're going to get heaps of energy no matter what, whether it's going down to the river to have a ski or to do whatever, he's fully in. And that's what I've learned about Ken, right from the get-go. He's fully supportive of any sort of initiative that will make a difference for someone else. He's a very giving individual. He understands that there is a lot of need in the world. And I just love the way he goes about his business.
Starting point is 00:23:19 What I've always loved, Rob, and, you know, my entire family testifies to this, is just how big and warmer heart he does have. And I think you need a vision bearer who was a big heart because we want to touch lives. And so having that warmth, that embracing heart has been quite a driver. And we're going to speak on behalf equally of everyone else. So it's not on the call. Patricia, Steph and Gordy, who our other three friends, came on board. operationally speaking.
Starting point is 00:23:56 And then Paul Hines, who's the sixth member in this mix, the definite ingredients they bring. Each one of us is in no way resigned to getting this across the line. And I think I love that. Ken did put it well. We like to front up to interviews, tell our story, but behind the scenes, we're hopeless. We are, hope.
Starting point is 00:24:19 So the skills that have been brought to the table with our other participants are necessary, they are so passionate. We're so lucky to have such a good working group within our committee. Rob and I have to be on a leash. We'll just go. Who are saying, we'll jump on the ship with a grain, we'll get it back, we'll convince the receiving government to do it. Look, there's so many moving past this, right?
Starting point is 00:24:42 Money, logistics, regulatory people, systems. But let's say that everything slots into place and this works out. Explain to us what this is in five years' time? What this is in five years' time is two things. One, it's a demonstration that ordinary people can make change and that they are empowered to make change so long as they have agency. The second half of it is that it's a well-oiled and sustainable movement and that it hits the bottom line.
Starting point is 00:25:21 We want to ebb away other problems. of global hunger. If we're saying 20 countries now in the grip of acute hunger, I want in five years to have reduced that number significantly. And this being one single approach, I want to argue that it is complementing every other approach that is there. And by extension, one of the things Rob said last week was this constitutes an emergency response. But how about we now bring the features of food production into those very same context, borrowing that expertise, from the producers who are driving this emergency aid response
Starting point is 00:26:06 and then adding their intellectual property and the experience, the vast experience in food production at scale. That's the legacy piece we also want to embed. Self-sufficiency has got to be where it lands in five to ten years time. We can't be continuing to ask our contributors for more grain, more grain, more grain, without any change of practice or behaviour at the destination. To look at self-sufficiency. At some level, all these countries, and having a transfer of technology,
Starting point is 00:26:40 basically a greenfield site, and create the infrastructure that's needed. Growing the wheat in some of their beautiful fertile soils is, to me, just a no-brainer. Look, I know Amy has a few more questions here, but I just have to ask this one question. Surely all of this just risks recreating what's already been done out there? I mean, there are international development organizations that have been trying to teach people how to farm and become self-sufficient for 50 years. How does this not just end up recreating all of the same problems that we've encountered in the past with international aid and development? That's a great question. It's a great question.
Starting point is 00:27:18 We are not building our model around our well-structured we are as an institution. We are building this model and the fact that ordinary folk with agency, both in production and all these are the areas of expertise, can play a role. Big institutional-driven approaches, which is traditional. Every day, large charity or organizations operating in this space, and they've done what they needed to do, but we're, We are bringing another layer. Not only are people ordinary, but there's the idea of tangibility and connection.
Starting point is 00:27:54 So the fact that we're mobilizing grain and financial resources to get the grain to the beneficiary means that right across our process, we want to be attached to it. So this first shipment is step one to growing this into something that we haven't got all the answers. You found us out on that one. But that's the exciting thing as well. We'll be exposed to things that we've never seen before in this one journey that will give us ideas. We're not going to give up on that resolve to make things better for people that are suffering starvation.
Starting point is 00:28:34 So we've got a lot to learn, and that's an exciting part. Will we be different to traditional organisations? Yeah, we will be because we are dragging in support from ordinary folk who want to make the difference, and that's a very powerful thing. So where we end up in five years' time, I wouldn't like to write that script just yet. We do know that we will have a place in helping reduce world hunger. If I could add just one little tiny bit, you then begin to think, what can we do that's radically different from what is being done?
Starting point is 00:29:12 That's a question rather hot of all this. is to ask, could we do it differently and could we do it effectively? We don't know how yet, but we want to get there. How is it going to feel when that wheat leaves your silo, Rob, and is on its way to the port in Melbourne and on its way to Sudan? Well, I'll probably be driving the truck, but I'll have Ken, I'll have Ken in the passenger seat with, me. So I'll have plenty of entertainment
Starting point is 00:29:47 on that trip. It'll take about five hours, six hours, maybe seven if we stop at a few road houses on the way. So that'll be a pretty epic journey, particularly if all the other farmers decide to come with us in their farm trucks. And they're all
Starting point is 00:30:03 shapes and sizes. So that in itself will be a unique and a special experience. And it's something that goes beyond a little financial contribution. We're actually taking part in this journey. For some reason, a lot of things have gone against us, but a lot more things have fallen into place. It's just amazing the people that have come on board that have just
Starting point is 00:30:27 surprised us with their capacity to make change and their willingness to jump on board. It is the most heartening project I've ever been involved in. I'm sure there are people listening to this right now that would really like to be part of this story. How can people help? What do you need right What we need right now is financial support. We're still falling a little bit short on finance, so if people want to jump on board and make a contribution, that would be really appreciated. And I know sometimes people,
Starting point is 00:31:02 it's important for people to go anonymous, but if they can put a name to it, it is even more powerful because that really makes us aware of the people power once again. This is a question to both of you or either one. What do you think is an underappreciated cure or remedy for the world right now? I think the best bit of advice I've ever received, and it was from my father,
Starting point is 00:31:24 is to look adversity in the eye and take your challenges on, enjoy the journey of going through the hard times, because that's where you'll do your learning and growing. So just take things head on, enjoy the challenge and see it through. to whom much is given much is required when you look across the globe both good and bad situations and the most challenging of those
Starting point is 00:31:57 the question always should be what can an individual do but if you looked at what in every way would be the potential resourcing of your capacity, then you do something. And I think that's what's lacking on the globe is a sense
Starting point is 00:32:21 of individual responsibility and a nudge to ask them to do something about it. You know, Amy, life's kind of hard sometimes, right? Being a grown-up, being an adult, modern life, it's hard to do stuff. It's hard just being out there and surviving. And I kept on thinking during this conversation, the whole team from Grain of Hope, they've all got stuff going on. And I'm sure their lives are very full and often challenging and I'm sure they've got no time just like all the rest of us. And yet, in and amongst all of that, this idea comes along, this opportunity to make a difference arrives either through luck or circumstance or design. And they say, I'm going to do this. We're going to add this on top
Starting point is 00:33:10 of everything else that we're doing. And that really, that makes an impression. The image that I can't shake is of Ken and Rob, sitting in Rob's truck, possibly with a convoy of other farmers, driving from Leighton to Port Melbourne, with all of this grain. And when you asked them, what is going to make this different to all of the other organisations that try and do something similar, that, that is what is going to make this different. And it just makes me think,
Starting point is 00:33:46 I am probably horribly biased, but maybe what the world needs right now is a whole lot of rural Aussie grit. In all the senses of all of those words, rural, Aussie, and yeah, grit, both the sand, the soil and the attitude. You know what it does? It makes things feel more possible than maybe you thought. And when you hear this story, you start thinking to yourself,
Starting point is 00:34:13 well, if that's possible and they think they can do it, then what else might be possible? We know there are a lot of podcasts out there. It means a lot to us that you chose this one. It's made possible by our paying subscribers. So if you're one of them, a big thank you. And if you want to support what we do, you can find us at fixthenews.com.
Starting point is 00:34:46 This show was produced by Amy Rose, with audio by Anthony Badalato, from hear that. It was made in Australia on the lands of the Guttagal, Wurundry and Waiwerong peoples. If you liked it, hit subscribe, leave a review or send it to someone you love who needs to hear us. Thanks for listening.

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