Hope Is A Verb - Women Moving the World

Episode Date: November 5, 2025

Meet Krystal Birungi, Carolina Morgado, Nice Leng’ete and Bhavreen Kandhari – four incredible women who are working on the frontlines of science, conservation, human rights, and environmental advocacy. From the genetic engineering ofmalaria-transmitting mosquitoes to fighting for clean air, women’s rights and biodiverse ecosystems, their stories highlight the power of representation and why the people most affected by the world’s challenges are also the mostequipped to drive the solutions. Some of the topics covered in this episode include: how gene drive technology could help us end malaria; why representation matters in science; how to carry forward a legacy of work; the land in Chile that sequesters three times more carbon than the Amazon; ending female genital mutilation in Africa through dialogue and the power of mothers in India to create a cleaner future for their kids.  02:08 Krystal Birungi - The scientist using gene drive to fight malaria10:27 Carolina Morgado - Rewilding landscapes and communities in Chile19:42 Nice Leng’ete - Creating an alternative rite of passage for girls in Africa28:12 Bhavreen Kandhari - The warrior mum fighting for clean air Find out more:Krystal Birungi, Entomologist – Target MalariaCarolina Morgado, Director – Rewilding ChileNice Leng’ete – Nice Place FoundationBhavreen Kandhari – Warrior Moms IndiaThis podcast is hosted by Angus Hervey and Amy Davoren-Rosefrom ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Fix The News⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Audio sweeting by Anthony Badolato from HearThat? If you have a guest suggestion, feedback or interested in sponsorship, please reach out [e-mail]

Welcome back to our podcast, Hope is a verb, and today's episode really takes us to the heart of an idea that we've been leaning into this season, which is turning up the volume on the voices that tend to get drowned out in our very noisy, click-baity world. And I wonder, Gus, if the reason why we don't hear about these stories, as much, is because there's something in human nature that makes us assume that people who are doing some good in the world are less interesting than the people who are messing it up.

Because from the people that we've spoken to on this podcast, it really feels like the opposite is true. Well, I think that the people out there who are doing amazing things in the world have far more riveting stories, but it's a variation on the idea if it bleeds, it leads. our media ecosystem is far more interested in celebrities, people with great hair and who are famous for being famous or people who are notorious for their villainous ways.

And I think what we're trying to do in this podcast is hack the attention economy and bring the spotlight to those people who we think are more deserving of our collective attention. So today we are going to introduce you to Crystal, Carolina, Nice, and Bavarine, for incredible women from very different parts of the world who are working on the front lines of science, conservation, human rights and advocacy. Whatever crisis you focus on, whether it's climate or war or humanitarian aid,

we know that women and girls are often the ones who bear the greatest impact. But what we don't hear about enough is that they are also the ones who are often driving solutions. changing cultures, the ones who are willing to keep fighting for the issues that no one else will. So here are four women who truly are moving the world in the right direction. As a young child, the mosquito was the most visible enemy when you came to malaria. It has this sound. It's almost traumatic for me now. I hear it and you just want to slap everything until you kill this mosquito.

And it's what we can't avoid because it's so small. and it's everywhere. Okay, so this is Crystal Woonji. She is an entomologist in Uganda who is figuring out how to genetically engineer malaria spreading mosquitoes so they no longer transmit the parasite to humans. This is incredible work.

She works with a not-for-profit research organization called Target Malaria, and she was recently named a 2025 goalkeepers champion by the Gates Foundation. I got to catch up with her just after the announcement, and Gus, her story is amazing. Uganda is one of the countries that has the highest malaria burden. We are number three out of five countries

that are responsible for half of all malaria infections. When I was growing up, this problem was even worse than it is today. I had malaria multiple times. And while each time was very painful and traumatic, what really shaped my life is a memory of my mother sponging off my five-year-old brother to keep him cool

because he had malaria and he was convulsing and I knew that there was medication for malaria but I also knew we could not afford it or we could do was pray pray that he would make it, that he wouldn't die malaria was spread by mosquitoes and we couldn't afford the tools

so you just waited to see if you'd get it and then every time you waited to see if you would live but when I was 14 years old the Global Fund was started, and it funded free mosquito nets, free medication, and free training for people in our villages that could now diagnose and treat malaria. And I could see the difference on the ground. We went from worrying that we would die to almost no malaria infections at all. And I realized it didn't have to be a death sentence. We could do something about it. And so I decided that I was going to join the fight against malaria. You know, Amy, after all the work that we did on our documentary earlier this season about the malaria vaccine, a shot at history, Crystal's story just lands differently. It's so similar to all the other people we spoke to on the ground.

But what I love is seeing how the impact of free bed nets and treatments for her as a 14-year-old completely changed what malaria meant to her to the point where she decided that she wanted to work on solving it. And the fact that she's now a goalkeeper with the Gates Foundation, who are a major donor to the Global Fund, you get this incredible circularity. I mean, you couldn't write this stuff. It's just one of those stories that has everything in it, right? There's the lived experience of malaria, but also that she's a scientist from Uganda

who's doing the research and working on a solution on home soil. And the tool that she's using, something called gene drive, is on the cutting edge of science. There's over 3,500 species of mosquitoes in the world, and yet, in countries like Uganda, it is just three that are spreading all the malaria, just three species. And so we have a genetic modification that targets the fertility of the mosquito,

so that instead of laying the 300 eggs it would usually lay, we would now get very few or no eggs. But that comes with a simple challenge, which is genes are only passed down 50% of the time. That is how genetics works. You have your gene, but only half of the offspring are going to get it. That's how we got to a technology called gene drive. It takes our modification, and then it makes sure that every mosquito-borne has this modification.

So it makes it more sustainable. It will spread faster. It's more persistent in the population. And then you can achieve a reduction in the mosquito numbers so that we can actually beat malaria because it's a race. We get new medications. And the malaria parasite becomes resistant. We get new insecticides, and the mosquito adapts to it.

It changes behavior. And then we're playing catch-up. So what this tool does, having less mosquitoes available to spread malaria, it allows us to catch up and hopefully overtake. And so within a decade, we could see malaria elimination in some of the most burdened areas. The challenge right now is we're on the tropical belt. So we get very large mosquito populations. The regular methods are just not going to cut it.

And that is why innovative technology like gene drive is so important, and particularly because for the first time in decades, we had local malaria transmission in the United States of America. These are places where malaria had been eliminated, but local malaria transmission means a mosquito bit someone in America and transmitted it to somebody else. And it's highly likely that we would see more and more of this kind of thing happening because the weather is changing.

And that is very alarming. because it means places where we didn't have malaria just because of the environment may not be protected by their environment much longer and it makes it that more critical to eliminate malaria today because with all the new tools coming up we have a fighting chance

but only if we act now because if we don't it might be a very different picture in a few years I mean this could be the epilogue to a shuttered history at the end of the documentary we spoke a little bit about future treatments And this really is one of the big ones. It could completely change the narrative yet again

on malaria and the future of this disease. Yeah. I actually asked Crystal what she thought of the malaria vaccine. And she said one of the reasons why the vaccine will continue to be important is to fill in that gap while they're still working on this gene drive technology. You just get this sense. You know, the bed nets helped us get to the vaccine and now the vaccine is going to save lives when we get to gene drive,

which is hopefully going to save more lives. So there's this real sense of progress, just building and building. But I know the question a lot of people will be thinking right now is where is the work up to? We've had that proof of concept in large cages in Italy. It's not in an African country because it's part of the safety studies to make sure it reduces it and the concept works. And we're hoping that we would have some field releases by 2030.

Then in 10 years, we could eliminate malaria from some of the most burdened areas. And for me, that will be my lifetime achievement. I know after that I'll do other things, but that is the goal because it's everything. It means a world where money can go towards education, gender equality, towards raising up communities that need sanitation, that need food security. all of these resources, we spend billions fighting a disease that, quite frankly, if we don't do more, we might lose. If we stop now, all those would have been for nothing.

I want My Sheld to have a different reality. I want his children to say, what is malaria? You know, that's what happens when an American child asks me what is malaria because they don't know what it is. And that is what I want for the children in Africa because their lives matter too. And we are losing so many of them. And there's something I always take the opportunity to say

if I have the option. And that is the importance of representation. Malaria disproportionately affects children, yes, and pregnant women. And a lot of the people in the world that are really dealing with malaria on a day-to-day attempt most heavily affected, even if it's not directly by being sick, are mothers because they're the primary caregivers. But a lot of times in science and in development,

women are not that well represented. The voices are not that heard. Sometimes it's because they themselves don't speak up. Sometimes it's because they're not given the platform to speak up. So I always want to remind people, the most affected people are the most driven to end a problem. And I want to encourage more women to speak up, to tell their stories, to get involved in the research, in the science,

because their contributions matter. I get up in the morning and I feel lucky. and proud and I don't think you can stop doing this work, you know? Because I think eventually things will turn around and there will be a better future than what we're seeing today. Okay, so Gus, this is Carolina Morgato. She is from rewilding Chile, an organization that's really focused on rewilding and conservation. But I just want to give you a little bit of context

before we dive into her story. Back in the 1990s, Carolina started working for a river, a kayaking business in Chile, and would you believe her first customer was the late Doug Tompkins? The entrepreneur turned conservationist who started buying up huge amounts of land

around South America to create national parks. Anyway, Doug brought out the activist in Carolina, so she left the river job and started working for what became Tompkins' conservation. She was there for about 20 years already. She thought it was a gig for life. But when Doug died suddenly in 2015, his wife, Christine, decided that it was time for Carolina

and the whole team in Chile to become an independent organization. Tompkins Conservation was in such a vulnerable position by not having one of its leaders. And Chris thought, what is something happens to her. It was time to have the organizations go independent because Chris wanted us to have the experience.

So when she's not here, we could be a strong organization. Although it was really hard at the beginning, it was the right thing to do, the right thing to do. And I felt like my computer was rebooted. And I had to really think and strategize how we will carry on because I don't think that after you work with people like that that have this vision, that you can stop doing it, you know. Their work cannot disappear, and I feel very responsible about that.

This idea of inheriting a legacy is so interesting because Chris Tompkins spoke a lot about this on the show last season. She talked specifically about this moment of handover. So to hear the other side of that, it's like a masterclass in how to make your work outlive your lifespan. It sure is. And the way Carolina is carrying this vision forward, staying true to the essence, but still making it her own, is pretty amazing. And have you heard about the route of parks in Chile, Patagonia?

No. Okay, so it's a network of 17, soon to be 18 national parks that's already created over 2,000 kilometres of continuous corridor, which means that all the parks are connected so wildlife can move. freely between them, but what's really revolutionary is how this project is taking care of people. The Rootos of Patagonia extends through three most southern regions of Chile and Patagonia. It has a very diverse ecosystem from temperate rainforests to ice caps to sub-Antarctic forests and an incredible shoreline. And all along these three regions of the Root of Parks, we have the longest and biggest kelp system in the world. the largest fjords and channel systems in Patagonian waters,

and we have an incredible beauty. Doug's last best idea was to position the route of park as a conservation destination to put an economic component to conservation. He got the inspiration from the Milford Truck in New Zealand. Look where it is now. It's full reserve. There's the whole economic development, the campings, the handcrafts, the people, the guides involved.

People need to understand that when you invest, at national parks, they can come engines to local economy. And today, Chile has picked up a 10-year program to work with the local communities, the entrepreneurs, to develop an alternative that goes along with nature and not against it. This is an alternative that not only brings an opportunity of work, but it brings pride and increases the quality of living people. We work on a very local level, adjacent communities of the national parks, certifying

and guides that specialize in their own park. We work on handcrafts with the women that have to stay at home and that brings them pride to be able to develop beautiful things. And you can create a destination of pottery or woolens with good products, with good designs. And what happens is that they give the sense to these people that usually are migrating to urban cities, the possibility of thinking, oh, I can stay here

and I can have a quality of life. So connecting people is essential. And those communities at the end of the day are the last line of defense of their territory. Amy, this is amazing. And what it reminds me of is another incredible rewilding story, which I'm a huge fan of,

which is what's happened in Gorongosa National Park in Mozambique. It's a place that's very near and dear. To me, it's where I did my PhD research. And they've taken a very similar approach where they've invested a lot into the community. surrounding the park, and a lot of those funds are contingent on the success of tourism within the park itself. So the entire setup means that the people on the arts goods of the park have an interest in the park being successful. I love this approach to conservation,

and it's so comprehensive. It benefits people and nature. It actually makes money. And as you're about to hear, it's also climate smart. We're not a huge organization, but we are very hands-on, We work in many fronts because it's impossible to work in conservation if you don't work in the threats. Mainly, all the work in climate change has focused in policies and technical solutions, but we think that the real solution is in protecting these places that can really regulate what's going on. The route of parks sequestrates three times more carbon per hectare than the Amazon. Of course, it's a smaller territory than the Amazon, but we're always trying to highlight the value. of this ecosystem.

Everything we study is not because we want to write a book. It's because we want to save the species or we want to save the territory. We are not a scientific organization, but we know we need science to protect. Because the world is so small, right? And a territory this big has a tremendous impact. So far we have helped create seven national parks,

and we are right now creating another national park. In the extreme south of Chile, in the most southern tip of South America, the future Cape Forward National Park. I think a lot about making a park has to do with opportunity, the opportunity to buy the land, and how that land can be connected or is already connected to public land. So it's really like forming a puzzle. It's important to say that it has been a tradition in Chile to create national parks.

Since 1926, every president of Chile has created at least one national. not Park during its administration. That statistic of the root of parks sequestering three times more carbon than the Amazon. Well, first of all, it's incredible. Absolutely astonishing.

And it really speaks to this idea that there are hidden stories of progress, that while so much of the world's attention is quite rightly on the Amazon, there are other places around the world that don't make headlines, but where land is being protected in ways that

benefit all of us. Yeah, and it's not just land. Carolina was telling me about Cape Fraud, which will become Chile's 18th National Park. It will be officially designated early next year. And it is at the southernmost point of South America, so right where the Atlantic and the Pacific Oceans meet. And so this park is really expanding their vision of protection

that encompasses both land and sea. We have about 85 kilometers of shores of the Strait of Magellan. Wow. We do four to five expeditions a year to look for places we can protect marine parks. Very difficult in Chile. Through the work with Tompkin Conservation, we've been protecting mainland. So we have not yet done a marine park, but we will keep trying. Starting next January, we're doing a three-year program measuring the carbon sequestration of the kelp forest.

not because of carbon credits, because we do not work with carbon credits, but so people understand that they need to be preserved and hopefully we can protect it as a natural monument. I am one person who is always very hopeful because the work that we do is not easy, but we can't give up. Every year, over 3 million girls are still at risk of undergoing female genital mutilation in Africa. It's not just a cut of human rights.

It's a cut of their education, their dreams, aspirations and everything. There are so many girls all over Africa who every day they are running for their education, they are running for their safety, they are running for everything. This is Nice Lengete, a human rights activist from Kenya who's working to end female genital mutilation. And she has an incredible story about breaking cultural barriers and the courage of one young girl to change the rules.

You know, Gus, FGM is a topic that we all tend to know something about, but we don't hear a lot about. And I think it's just because it's really hard to hear. Yeah. But when you listen to Nice Tell Her story, her personal story, you start to realize that this is a woman who can hold both the beauty and the cruelty of the story. the culture that she grew up in, and imagine a completely different future. I grew up in the southern part of Kenya, in the heart of Mount Kilimanjaro, and we are,

you know, the Maasai people, we call ourselves Big Six, because we really live well with wild animals. So it's really a beautiful community. If you're a child, I'm not just a child to my parents, but every parent considered me as their child. But at the same time, it's a community that has cruel culture. My mother would wake me up every morning to go and witness other girls when they're undergoing circumcision. It was a way of preparing me

so that when my time comes, I don't run away because it's a right of passage from girlhood to womanhood. They were friends who were not able to go back to school. If you have undergone female genital mutilation, you are considered a woman. It means you're ready for marriage.

It means you can't go back to school. And it's something I never wanted because I always dreamt of becoming a... teacher and I was telling my family, I don't want circumcision, but no one will accept because it was a must for every girl to undergo the card. But after losing my parents, we lived with my grandfather. When I was eight years old, it was my time together with my sister who was three years older to join my three cousins because they like having many girls being circumcised at the same time. We woke up at 4 a.m. We had to shower with cold water. They believe the cold water

will nampen your body so that you're not able to hear the pain. After we showered, there was a tree outside our uncle's place that we had identified. We ran there. I climbed fast with my sister help and then she climbed. And when the group of circumciser and were coming could see them, but there was darkness at that time. We couldn't go anywhere. They're a wild animal, so we had to wait until there was light.

And when we came down, we walked for over 15 kilometers to our auntie's place. And we stayed there for a week. After a week, they realized that we were there, and we had to promise that next time we'll not run away. And I remember my sister told me, nice, we can't be running away every time. Because you are younger than me, maybe if I agree to undergo the cart,

they will let you go back to school. I really tried to convince my sister. I was like, maybe she will die. Even if she makes it, she'll not be able to go back to school. She'll be someone's wife, and she's also still a child. So I couldn't do anything. I went to the same. but it was really difficult for me because my sister was circumcised and married at an early

age and from there I decided it's time to stand up for myself for other girls I went to my teacher because she knew what was happening and I stayed with her in school but after a few years I had to go back to my grandfather and I started explaining to him I don't want to be married I'm still a child and after some time he decided to call my family my uncles and everyone and it was like let's leave her when she was is ready, she will come back because I told my grandfather, I would run away at the age of 15. I studied my early campaigns, moving to villages, to different communities, and using dialogues as a way of convincing our family. Because you see, I couldn't do it for my sister.

I couldn't do it for my friends. But it doesn't mean I have to keep quiet. I have sisters all over Kenya, all over the world. So I didn't understand before we spoke to Nice that there was such a direct connection between FGM and child marriage. And I think this is what really highlights for me the importance of finding ways to tell these stories and to have these conversations. FGM is a topic, Amy, that we have followed closely at Fix the News in terms of the progress that has been made to end it. And there has been progress. For example, the practice was outlawed in Kenya in 2011. And so I was interested to hear from Nice, what do you? difference these kinds of laws have made, whether they will continue to make a difference?

Laws by themselves will not end female genital mutilation because it's a very sensitive cultural issue. It's about changing mindset and behavior because that's a culture that has been there for hundreds or even thousands of years. It's a right of passage from girlhood to womanhood. It's deeply rooted. So we decided together with the community that there is a better way. We love our culture. There is so much that it is beautiful. All the other celebrations around womanhood, the dancing and singing, the elderly women talking to us, that is a beautiful culture that we need to embrace. So we started the mother to girl forum, mothers and daughters sit down together and talk about these issues, FGM, child marriage. We have the father to son

forum. They sit down, talk about this issue. We have the cultural elders forum because decision is made by the elderly men. They are very powerful and influential people in the community and really without convincing them, you're not able to make any change. So together, we were able to start the alternative vice of passage to replace circumcision with education. We come together. We do a big ceremony. People dress beautifully with their necklaces. We sing. We dance together. And then we have cultural leaders blessing these girls. But now they are blessed. assessing them with books and pens, to be journalists, doctors, teachers, or anything they aspire to be in life.

And doing that for over 11 years now, we've been able to save over 21,000 girls and women. It's one thing to end a practice like female genital mutilation, but what I think is so brilliant about NICE's approach is that she's not just leaving a void, leaving a gap where that has been removed. Instead, she's working with those communities to create an alternative right of passage.

I just think that what she is doing is extraordinary, and we were really lucky to find her through our friends of the Postcode Lottery Group who are supporting her work at the Nice Place Foundation. When I started this journey, I was alone. But you see now, I have thousands of community members who are also embracing change. And I think growing up, that is really what I've always wanted to do.

That is the difference I wanted to make. I could have chosen to do any other job, but I don't think I would have felt the way I feel now. This is my mission, and I'm really happy that finally we were able to build a Nice Place Foundation, which is a rescue center and a girls' leadership academy. We are hosting over 100 girls in the safe shelter. Some of them have been able to reconcile them back with their families, but we are supporting over 1,000 girls in school, because our mission is to ensure that every girl has a chance to continue with education.

like saying that the opposite of poverty is wealth, but to me the opposite is justice and education is justice. And that's why we are really trying to ensure that we are sending every girl to school, empowering them with leadership skills, advocacy skills, so they are able to stand for themselves, their cousins, their sisters and girls in their community so that they are able to be women of their dreams. Something as simple as clean air. It's a fundamental right. But in my city, children will probably live 10 to 12 years lesser than one in a clean air city and country. It's taken the silent strength of mothers who refuse to accept this is how it is.

Turning these invisible threats into visible accountability. It's the shared breadth of every parent who says, I will not stop until my children breathe free. Our final guest for this episode is Bavrine Kandari, a mum in Delhi who started Warrior Mums, a national movement of mothers in India dedicated to fighting for clean air and a healthy future for their children. Air pollution became my mission because my twin daughters were born, premature, they weighed 600 grandes each. And there was so much studies being shown that premature birth and premature deaths are very clearly connected. with air pollution. And then in 2016, the Delhi government called for schools to be shut down. And as worried citizens, we called a protest that day. And surprisingly, over 300 parents showed up.

And this was the first movement. It was called My Right to Breathe. And these were the years when air pollution wasn't something that was really talked about. And then coming to COVID in 2020, it was one of the biggest wins. Because we always said to the government, do not work on this post-pollution remedies. You have to work on the sources of air pollution. The moment you work on sources of air pollution, everything will go. And that was nature's biggest experiment during COVID. Because the emissions were controlled and everything got cleared. So whether it was your air, it was your water, the river also, they just showed up. This is the answer to thin air. We could have never even proven this. But the nature helped us prove during COVID. That moment,

we actually transformed from a worried citizen in to a worry mom because we are going to work with action. And action meant not writing on a Facebook or social media forum. Action meant making a complaint where you make your authorities and government accountable. This really is one of those stories of how one person can create a movement. And what I love is how this harnesses the collective power of mothers. Which, thinking about it, I feel like the group of mothers needs its own collective noun, but we can work on that at another time.

A mall, a thunder cloud. A thunder, yeah, yeah, yep, okay, you're definitely heading in the right direction there. But, you know, Gus, there's something also here for me about highlighting the invisible. You know, I remember when my son Darcy was born, a friend of mine gave me a book that described motherhood as taking care of the invisible. And this is exactly what Bavreuxie.

and her collective of mothers are doing, not just for themselves, but for the world? Air is invisible, and that's why too many keep walking past it. It's not visible. I mean, we see dirt and food. If you offer me a dirty glass of water, I will never drink it. But the air that we continue to breathe, it's not just bad. It's deadly. And in my city, every third child has impaired lungs, which is absolutely devastating for any parent to know. this is the health future that we are going to lose out on. Convincing everyone hasn't been easy. Sometimes you just get so frustrated, it feels so immovable.

It's like managing your anger does make you cynical, I have to admit that. But then you think of your child because I don't think any mother wants to give up on a child. But I can tell you that moms coming together has brought in positivity when you realize you are not the only one standing in the kitchen, staring at the grey sky and wondering what's next it's like a ripple of who's with me that turns into hundreds and thousands

that's my spark of collective energy Clean air is not a luxury it's a right and that needs to be demanded we're not going to give up and I think that's the way mothers are and because of this amazing strength

that will keep us all going Female empowerment is a phrase that we hear a lot and it's an important one but Crystal, Carolina, Nice and Bavarine they all highlight the power of showing these stories of empowerment rather than just talking about it as a concept and in the same way those free bed nets opened Crystal's eyes to the possibility of ending malaria

the more these stories are seen, I just believe the more possibilities they are going to unlock. You'll find links to all of these stories in our podcast notes and make sure you join us next week because we are sitting down with one of our long-time heroes,

Dr. Enric Saleh, marine biologist and one of the world's greatest champions of ocean conservation. We'd like to thank our paying subscribers for making projects like this podcast possible. If you're interested in finding out more about our work, check out fixthenews.com. There are a lot of podcasts out there.

It means a lot to us that you chose this one. This podcast is recorded in Australia on the lands of the Gardagal and the Wurundry and Wayorong people. If you enjoyed this conversation and would like to support Hopes of Vos. verb, make sure you subscribe and leave a review. Thanks for listening.