House of R - 2025 Stock Watch: DCU, MCU, and More Buys, Sells, and Holds

Episode Date: August 15, 2025

Mal is joined by many of your favorite Ringer hosts to talk about what stocks they’re buying, selling, or holding in the world of fandom. From the MCU and DCU to video game adaptations and ‘KPop Demon Hunters,’ they talk about it all! (00:00) Intro(01:57) Sean: Video game adaptations(15:57) Van: The MCU(01:00:01) Charles: Tom Holland(01:14:16) Daniel: The DCU(01:22:08) Ben: Warner Bros. Pictures(01:32:29) Meg: ‘Brimstone’(01:41:57) Jomi: ‘The Mandalorian and Grogu’(01:52:27) Steve: ‘Battle Beast’(02:00:41) Kate: Cute animal merch(02:10:28) Jodi: Survival stories(02:23:05) Andy: Whimsy Host: Mallory RubinGuests: Sean Fennessey, Van Lathan, Charles Holmes, Daniel Chin, Ben Lindbergh, Meg Schuster, Jomi Adeniran, Steve Ahlman, Kate Halliwell, Jodi Walker, and Andy Greenwald Producers: Carlos Chiriboga and John RichterAdditional Production Support: Arjuna RamgopowellSocial: Jomi Adeniran Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Greetings and welcome to House of R. I'm Mallory Rubin and in mere moments I will be joined by 11, 11 of my ringer pals and colleagues for the first House of our Stockwatch. What's the stock watch? Why are we doing that? Do any of us actually know how stocks work? Thanks for asking. Let me start with the last one. No. None of us know how stocks work. However, that's not going to stop us from buying, selling, or holding. Because this is a moment to assess the landscape. We all spend so much time looking forward, looking ahead to the summer of 2025. Superman's coming. Fantastic Four is coming. Okay. Those things have happened now. How are we all feeling? Not only. only about the DCU and the MCU, but about everything else across the nerdverse. I can't answer that question on my own. I am dearly missing my darling beloved Joanna Robinson, and so in her absence. I had to call in basically the entire crew, and I'm asking everybody, what is the one thing right now, as you think back to the last few months and you look ahead to the rest of this year

and beyond that you're buying, selling, or holding when you think about the state of genredom. We had a blast. Next week, Rob Mahoney, who was on vacation this week and thus was not a part of Stockwatch, we'll be back to talk about Alien Earth. Episode three, we'll be deep diving into that. And then later next week, can't fucking wait. Finally, it's the Peacemaker Season 2 premiere. Be covering that as well.

But right now, it is time for the House of Our. Stockwatch. What a fucking thrill it is. To be here with two of my favorite people and podcasters in the world. Sean Fennacy, Van Lathen, host of the Big Picture,

host of the Midnight Boys, Jets fan, Yes. Saints fan. Yes. We're in a tough spot. Nets fan, LSU fan. You guys, the LSU, that's good.

We're looking up. We'll see how to office a fan. Flying plays. Yeah. Jesus. I saw Soto take a terrible swing last night. Can you just not? Did you see the swing?

Just stop. No, true story. I went into, so I was watching the game at home, and they went up 6-0 in the third inning. And I was like, all right, 6-0. They're playing the Braves, who are just an absolute tire fire this year. Yeah, they're bad. We're good. Get in the car, drive to a restaurant, have dinner at the restaurant.

Lovely dinner. Leave the restaurant. As soon as I leave, 47 text messages. 47. 47. They're all about the Mets And the Mets have lost 11 to 6 And they've given up nine runs in the fourth inning.

They're all from Jack Sanders. I've got a legion of sad Mets fans out there. At the time of this recording, the Baltimore Orioles are 12 games under 500, so I don't give a shit about your Mets pain. That's worse. My team was supposed to win the World Series this year and there are 12 games under 500.

It's a disaster. That's tough, I'm sorry, Mallory. The window will open again next year. Okay, so due to a slight scheduling, quirk. Could have been anybody's fault. Could have been anyone's fault. Anyone except for me and Van, who were both on time

and available to you when we were asked to be here. Yes, you two were scheduled to go back to back, but now your topics are paired. The three of us had so much fun talking about Superman together. I thought, why not do this all together? So everybody is here to buy, sell,

or hold one thing. It can be anything that you think feels essential right now in the nerd verse that says something crucial about where we've been this year where we're heading in the future what are you looking forward to what are you dreading

we're going to talk about your topics together but at the start here give us your pick for the first house of our stockwatch what do you buy and sell in our holding and why I'm buying I'm aggressively buying I'm thinking about

a hostile take over of video game movie adaptations. Oh, shit. And furthermore. And furthermore. Video games. I'm now ready. Wow.

To turn myself over. Okay. To something that I have either largely chided, creatively, or ignored. I played video games all the way up until 2003 when I graduated from college. Okay. And in that era, mostly Madden, back in Ithaca College. And then I...

I would know because I was only there during the months when it snowed, which is one of the trick of don't go to Ithaca, because if you go there, you're going to think it looks beautiful when you visit in August, but it's fucking cold there all the time. Anyway, I played a lot of video games in college. Stop playing as an adult because I had other things to do. And most of the movies that we've seen

that are adapted from video games in the last 40 or so years are pretty lousy. Now, obviously, the tide is turning at the box office. Right? You've got your Super Mario Brothers movies of the world. You got Minecraft now this year. There's something around the corner, which is to say, proper, good movies based on video games. Resident Evil.

Well, Zach Greger is making a Resident Evil movie, which is very exciting for me. And you've got Hadeo Kojima's Death Stranding coming from A-24, and you have Alex Garland's Eldon Ring. Now, I am committing here on the pod to begin playing Death Stranding and Eldon Ring. I'm going to buy a constant. I'm going to buy the games. I'm going to try to complete the games

if I can. Eldon ring? Do you know how long Eldon takes to play? I'm going to try. It could take you north of like, it could take you almost 200 hours. Yeah. It's a lot of video games. I'm committing. I'm making a commitment here.

All right. Some of that content I will make for the ringer. Oh, fantastic. If you would like to join me and this. You're going to play all of it on Twitch? No, platforms that benefit the ringer. That's my strategy. But I promise to,

I sincerely turn myself over to this stuff in preparation for these movies. So you're going to play 200 hours of Eldering Ring to watch a two-hour Eldering movie. I love this. Well, I've never felt so close to you, honestly. I think... I think this is... I think you're going to fall in too deep. I think the game is...

The game is as a cinematic thrust to it. There's a shit ton of story. Yeah. I think this is going to affect everything. In his career and life. Yeah. I think it's going to fall in deep. You don't think Amanda's going to want to hear me talking about my 180th hour of Eldon Ring?

You're going to start doing it. Today on the big picture, we're going to do Super Mario Brothers from 1994, starring John Legerzombo and John. I will offer this to you as a cautionary tale. Ben Limburg, listen to Buttonmash. Check out Ben's wonderful Buttonmash podcast and video game coverage. Plays a lot of games, as you know. He also produces a lot of content from The Ringer.

He also watches a lot of baseball, and he also has a young daughter. The comps are clear. and I will say that the bulk of Ben's productive work hours, I think largely because of the amount of video gaming he's doing. 2 to 4 a.m. Okay. That's often when he's filing pieces. But he's also little-known facts about Ben.

He's also jacked. So does this mean I'll be jacked if I start playing video games? I don't want to get too deep into it, but he's like ridiculously decent. Yeah, he's fit. What the fuck is going over? Remember when the entire internet tore you to show. shreds for saying that you could hold a weight up. Remember this? I mean, I don't remember.

I don't remember. Everybody remembers it. I don't remember. I actually don't remember what you're referring to. You said you could hold a weight up. Yep. Okay. You're pretending you don't remember, but you do because it was painful and everybody mocked you. But Ben Lindberg could do it, is the point. But seriously, Sean's journey

into the depths of Eldon Ring. That's an A-24 movie in and itself. It is. Yeah. There's a lot of video game. I don't know anything about it. I mean, I tried it a little bit. It's good when you play, but like, when I find myself falling into a video game world, I tap out. What does Colleenica think about you when you're, like, in hour three of a video game? Is she mad? Well, there's a new obsession I'm sure you guys have heard of it.

It's MLB 25 to show. Oh, yeah, yeah. And I'm playing it every single day. Yeah, I play it every day. Yeah, he does it every day. Every day. I'm playing a 162 game season. I'm playing every game.

So does Adam. Every pitch. So one more thing that you do have in common. I'm messing up. I'm making the line. lineups. Yeah. I'm doing a whole, I'm pitching Shohei on short rest.

I'm doing all kinds of stuff. And by the way. You're risking that arm injury. Yeah. Last night, he proved why you shouldn't really do that. But I'm telling you, I'm back into video games. Okay. Sometimes I give myself the 30-30 rule.

I, for 30 minutes, do research for the pods or right. Oh, and then you reward yourself. I reward myself for 30 minutes of MLB, the show. This is what I used to do with me. homework. Like, I'll read a chapter of this textbook and then I will allow myself to go get like a Twinkie or something. That was basically

how I got through ice. You guys are adorable. You know, the way you have to regulate. Okay. Have you begun doing console research? Like, so if you want to play Death Stranding, you have to get a PlayStation. I only decided on this idea when you texted me about doing a pod during my vacation. And I said yes, and here's my idea. And I'm happy to be here. Okay, so you're going to need to

get a PlayStation. I think you should get an Xbox. You can play all the ring on any console, but my husband believes that it should be played on Xbox. Death Stranding, you need a PlayStation. You should get a switch. I never owned an Xbox. I only own PlayStation's throughout my video game life. So even the Xbox controller, it's barely foreign to me.

So I'm going to have to learn. So get a PlayStation. You think a PlayStation is fine? It will work. So I'm an Xbox guy. But PlayStation stole me because of... The exclusives, man. You have to have it.

Spider-Man, too. Yeah. One of the greatest experiences of my life. Wow. Yeah, I'm not even fucking around. I've told people who this before. You are Spider-Man. That's it.

There's no other, you're Spider-Man. There's never been a game, maybe some of the Arkham stuff, there's never been a game where I'm playing as a beloved childhood character. And I'm everything that that character is. I'm swinging. I'm fighting like him. I'm using my brain. You are Spider-Man.

And I can't wait until they come out with something more. Adam has every console. He sometimes has more than one of a given console so that it can be in different rooms, which I... That's fucking insane. I bought him, Sean already knows this, but one of his Hanukkah gifts, I bought him in Arcade cabinet,

a Gallagher and Miss Pac-Man cabinet. And I was like, I think I just, like, locked up wife of the year, at least for last year. It's a high bar to meet for this coming year, but we'll be like, so we're doing a stranger things for you watch. And there's the stretch in season two, they're at the arcade a lot. And Max, Mad Max, Mad Max, she's like,

leaderboard lockdown for DigDug. And he's like, do you want to go play dig dog? Like, so he's just like any 10-minute window. He wants to be playing a game. I just, I hope somebody's listening to this because this was the limit. That was the limit. I was like, yo, I don't know if. It's about to be Sean's life.

It's like, I don't know if you've ever seen if they have these one-up arcade cabinets. Yeah. And they're smaller. Yeah. And they're, they're. And they're. But I'm like, they're great. You know, I'm probably going to get one to play Marvel versus Capcom 2.

And I can put it right here. and it's just like, no. And I'm like, what? I'm like, I can put it in my office. You don't have room in your office. It's a very, it's sturdy, but a very spelt frame. Yeah. You can make room for sure.

I said, I gave a hundred. You should get one. Such an enabler. Types of, every time I said it, we're not putting that in the house. It's not happening. Move on. And so I had to go buy the, like a big 300-book arcade thing that I can play on the deal. And then get it.

the Marvel versus Capcom too. This is my god. He's your guy. Get the game on the PlayStation so that I could play it and use that because I was just told no about the arcade cabinet. Not happening. Interesting. You're going to have an arcade cabinet before you know it. Here's my question for you. I would love to have Street Fighter 2

or Moral Combat cabinets. Like from like 1998, that would be I would be so happy to have that. Yeah, you can get the Moro Combin. I spent so much of my mother's money at the bowling alley in the 1990s. So Moral Combat 2 is coming out. Yep.

I didn't love the first one, but the second one actually looks kind of fun. Carl Urban. I mean. Doing his thing. Yeah. It's Johnny Cage. And the casting for the new Street Fighter movie. Yes.

Looks, do you have that in front of you? Can you tell me who's... I know 50 Cent was cast as Balrog, which is just fire. Andrew Schultz is Dan. Andrew Schultz is Dan. Also incredibly funny and smart. Who else is in the cast list at this point? Let's see.

It is a wild collection of actors. Somebody very funny is M. Bison. Who is M. Bison? I cannot remember. But every time they come out with it, everybody goes, wow. Like, it seems like this- Noah Centenio is in this movie? Noah Centenois.

Yes. Lincennes? Let's see. You said Cody Rhodes? No. Jason Mamoa. Right. Jason Mamoa, is he Blanca? Yeah.

Yeah, he's Blanca. Who's Cody Rhodes? Guy Rodes is... Guy Lyle. He's Kent. Oh, he's Gile. Yes. Gile.

And also the, who is the country singer who wears a mask? who's playing Vega? Let's see. You know, there's a country singer who always wears a mask and the mask looks like Vega's mask. Or Bill Peck. Or Bill Peck.

Oh, so he actually got him to play Vegas. It looks all very funny. So I don't know if that movie's gonna be good. Right, but I'm buying it. I'm buying it. So is your altered relationship to an enthusiasm for a video game adaptations extending to television?

Or is this exclusive to movies? Does this have anything to do with Last of Us? and Arcane and Fall Out. You didn't watch Fallout. I didn't watch Fallout. Love, Fall Out. That was great. Love Gaggins.

You know, a little bit of a bad taste in my mouth from Westworld and the Jonathan Nolan situation. Gagins is the ghoul is one of the most important things that ever happened. I have a thought and that thought is any movie that involves most, that involves a large-scale nukeying of an American city. Any property is normally good. when you see the bomb blow up. Think about the times you've seen the bomb blow up. Okay.

Normally that's pretty good. Can I put you on a movie that I just watched over the break over my vacation until it was interrupted by this pod? It's called Panic in Year Zero. 1962, starring and directed by Ray Maland.

Great mid-century actor. He and his daughter and his son and his wife are going to go out to the mountains to go camping. They live in Los Angeles. And they pack their car up the station wagon.

They head out about halfway along on the trip. They see a plume, mushroom cloud over the city of Los Angeles. The entire city has been destroyed by a nuclear attack. Sounds cheerful. Everyone in the surrounding area is terrified, and it becomes pandemonium all throughout the state of California. And every place where they stop, somebody tries to steal their car, steal their gas, steal their food, steal their money. It is clearly like one of the originating texts. for every fucking thing.

Yeah. You know, the last and stuff like the last of the stuff like fallout, all that. It's panicking year zero. Check it out. Okay. Good Reko. What are you buying? What are you selling?

What are you holding? What's your pick? I'm buying Marvel. And let me tell you why. This guy. I'm buying Marvel. Number one. What a contrarian.

I love this. No. But you're getting it for a good price. That's what I'm saying. I believe. This is a smart investment. This is about being a smart investor. What do my crypto bros say?

Well, they've never let anyone astray. ever before. So that's the good place to go for advice. Is it up? Bitcoin. That's great. Do you have your account? Do you open it up and we can talk through it right here?

Well, no. Sean needs to invest in a Mortal Kombat arcade cabinet so if you could point him towards some. Buy the what? The dip. Yes. Buy the dip. And I got to let you guys know something.

This is the dip. Okay. We're in a dip. Yep. We're in a dip. Now, Marvel is trying to goose the stuff. stock price by giving us

all types of Marvel propaganda. The Marvel propaganda arm is working. Active. Yeah. Right now. We're getting set pieces, set videos. We're getting Tom Holland running around. Like, he's kissing people

on the side of the road. He's doing all kinds of stuff. We're getting every detail possible about doomsday. They're saying, don't worry, guys. Yeah. Yeah. We got six teams in it. We got Doom in it. We got everything. This is going to work. We swear. Yeah. The only thing they don't have is a finished script. They don't have a finished script. That's fine. They had someone to call Ryan Reynolds and say, we need you to post on Instagram immediately the Avengers logo with some Deadpool graffiti over it. Can you do that today? And he did.

This is why I'm buying low to, we're not super low, but I'm buying low to mid right here. And I'm getting a lot of return next year on my investment. moving forward. Because the X-Men are still out there. I'm excited about that. Same. You have another Avengers movie coming. And let me ask you this. Do you feel like there's an unannounced title that it's going to make it?

I feel for some reason. The film slate for Phase 6, I have never believed it would be this few movies. It seems impossible. Yeah. Just doesn't. That said, obviously this is. has been more focused around the television slates than the film slate.

But like this idea, Sean's like you do sound like... This is the desperate conspiracy theorizing of a fallen crew, you know? Is there not a secret film? No, I'm telling you, there's a movie coming out. Why not? It's either going to be blade or there's going to be something. There's something that they're going to drop. Because we're not going to go from Dooms Day to Secret Wars.

There's something else coming, Sean. There's something's coming, John. Look over here at Ryan Reynolds' Instagram. Look over here at the Tom Holland. This is all been on purpose. We've made a movie in secret. And we will be putting it out. Forget, Secret war, secret movie.

Okay? And it's coming in the middle of phase six, maybe like, what do we think? Like early 2027? These are the largest film productions in the world. These are the biggest movies in the world. Or maybe something else gets greenlit and it doesn't start shooting to the middle of next year. Yeah. To come out in 27.

Absolutely. Definitely. else that's happening. Yeah, no, totally. Maybe Blade? And you know what? It's all going to be okay. Everything's going to be fine.

It's going to work out. You guys are going to love what you get. You're going to feel confident and happy every morning. Thunderbolts was a great movie. I liked it a lot. Fantastic Four was a good movie. No, it wasn't. You were wrong about that.

And your reckoning will come. I'm being proven more and more every day that that's a movie that is not resonating with audiences at all. I wanted to talk my shit to Sean. I did, but it's getting harder to do that as 13 people flock to the theaters to see that weekend. I really enjoyed the movie. Same. I don't want to take that away from you guys.

The snapshot of the Sunday morning text messages over the last three weekends between Van and I are very funny. It's always just me being like, see these numbers? It's not good, bro. You don't need to take it away from us because the entire viewing public has decided to take it away. So that's upsetting. We're going to talk about it at some point, and you should join us too. Like something bigger about it because you buying, I think it's smart. I think the next few movies are going to obviously be bigger than the last.

last three movies. There's no question about that. It's just like, what are these movies leading up to? So, like, I have no buy-in whatsoever. So I did something just by accident. It was either Midnight Boys inspired or something else was happening. I went back and looked at some of the box office for the last couple of Marvel movies that have come out. And it's clear to me what has happened. There were a couple movies that sunk the whole ship. And these weren't bad movies. These were movies because I was with Mallory to see some of these films. These were movies where we walked out of the movie theater and we went, huh. Can I guess what you're going to say? Go for it. Multiverse of Madness? Not quite.

It was a big hit, but I think that people felt let down coming out of that movie. But there's a double whammy there. There's another one right after that one. Is Quantum Mania? It's Thor. Oh, yes. Love and Thunder, yes. The response to Love and Thunder was a real canary in the coal mine.

It was. It was. So it was, those are still two films with big time leads in them. Yeah. Characters that we already know that we like. Yeah. They're not trying to make a character cool or make a world cool.

Directors we like. Yeah. And we walked out of the films like, they did not nail that. Yeah. That didn't feel right. And particularly coming off of some of the highs that we have had from other movies, those are the ones that were supposed to be shoe-ins.

And we all ran out to go see them. And that, to me, made the casuals go. Not the diehards. Films like that. And then Quantumania as well made the casuals go, maybe I don't have to go to the movies until I'm being drugged there. Okay. How much of it do you think is that and how much of it is that the glut of the television slate,

the Disney Plus expansion made the homework feel and the volume of connected strands feel impossible for people to track? that the barrier to entry became too high for people who aren't like, I actually can't wait every two months to boot up a new Disney Plus show. And obviously we liked a lot of the Disney Plus shows, but it feels like it's a confluence of all of these factors. It is.

I am actually starting to consider that a little bit less. Interesting. Because it was so easy to ignore some of those shows. Outside of the diehards, I just don't know that many people that like watched Moon Night, right? Like Kalika, she watched Moon Night. She's like, I'm just, it's not, this one, I don't like this one.

So, she doesn't want to watch it. Right. But I do know people, most of these people went out and gave these movies a shot. These movies all had gigantic first weeks, right? Most of these people went out and gave these movies a shot. And I think that particularly with multiverse of madness, there are people that are going to look at that if they didn't watch Wanda Vision and go, look what the fuck happened to her?

Like the last time I saw her, she was one of the, the good guys and she was just coming into her own power and now she's the villain of the movie, two kids, all of that stuff like what's going on. But more than anything, I think people went into the theaters with their families and came out slightly let down. And in a time of economic scarcity,

they made the decision that I'm not going to go back to the theaters to see these movies until I have to. Right. Want and half are different for film audiences. They had to see Deppool and Wolverine it's Deadpool and Wolverine. They went. A lot of them had to see...

Because look at the successes. The successes are Wakanda Forever, Garza of Galaxy 3, Deadpool and Wolverine. You just have to go see those films. The ones that you don't have to see, they're just not seeing them anymore.

Now, this was not the narrative ahead of Fantastic Four. The narrative was not, you don't have to see this movie. It's not important. It turned out to be a movie that you didn't have to see. But that, to me,

is the thing to put your finger out. Figure out lies. Do you think that will feel true? When people are sitting down to see Doomsday and the Fantastic Four, this group of characters played by this cast is one of the driving forces of Doomsday and Secret Wars, will people feel like they didn't have to see that movie? That seems impossible. Well, I think you're right, but I also think that Marvel has a history of cleaning up their messes. Yeah, for sure, definitely. And so I think that the Fantastic Four overall is a failed experience.

from Marvel. It just is. It's not a experiment from a filmmaking standpoint. I really enjoy the movie. And I've gone back to see it again. Okay? But I think that if in the heart of hearts of people, if you talk to them that are over at Disney, they would say that we needed this film to go 750, go 700. These are like kingdom characters in comic book lore. And so they're probably

going to be a little disappointed. I think Marvel will see what did not work for audiences in this movie. Yeah. And you'll get a different Fantastic Four or a slightly different Fantastic Four in Doomsday, which there would have been anyway. That's fascinating. I think what feels really, like,

hard to wrap our minds around Thunderbolts and Fantastic Four is that there is a divide with those movies in a way that there wasn't for, like, love and thunder between the critical and fan reception. It's a big picture. notwithstanding and the success of the film.

A lot of people are like, Thunderwolves was a good movie. And then not a lot of people saw it. And then Kevin Feige did an interview with Variety where he was like, that's like, that can't happen. Which is like not a thing he used to say or a thing that he used to be compelled to have to say. So I don't know how many people, again,

other than one of the people, one of the three people on Mike right now, would say like, Fantastic Four was a good. creative failure or like a total miss. Not to me. But if the end point... You liked it. You loved it. You loved it. You're ready to say that you thought it was great. I didn't despise it. I think I felt surprised by its lack of energy. It's lack of urgency. And I think that the feedback that I have gotten from so many people who did like it, all of whom are the

diehards that you're talking about, is that this was a film that was really true to those characters, that they nailed the tone of this group and that they gave you something satisfying as a fan. That's not what mass consumer blockbuster filmmaking is about. It's not about serving a discreet group of fandom. It's about reaching everyone. You know, I am a comic book fan but certainly not on the level of you guys and Amanda as you guys know is not a fan at all and for both of us it just fell very flat and I think the word got out very quickly

from people who are not as heavily invested in these worlds this is kind of a flat movie and and for the one thing I will say is the people I know who saw it who were not totally bought into the entire experience felt similarly to us, which we were sort of like, the chemistry of this cast and some of these casting choices doesn't have that feeling that that first wave of Marvel movies had where you saw Chris Hemsworth and you were like, that is Thor. Or you saw Chris Evans, you know, like, that is Captain America.

And for whatever reason, they are struggling a little bit to concretize in the minds of general moviegoers this new brand of heroes. The one thing that I think is really interesting when you go back and look at everything post-end game that they didn't do, that they never failed to do in the previous iterations is. This is going to seem small, but I don't think it is. They never put a Shang Chi II in active development.

That's a movie that when you go back and look at those numbers and how well that movie did now, especially considering that it was COVID, and the fact that there was no attempt, we've not seen Simulu in a Marvel movie since that movie. Not being able to bounce that character up, in addition to all the other characters that could have been bounced up that time is really when things started to fall apart because they got nervous and then they were like, we gotta do,

we gotta do Doctor Strange 2, we got to do Thor 4, we got to do Black Panther 2, we got to do Guardians 3, we gotta go back to what we know works. And in doing so, they failed to, and Thunderbolts came too late. That's a movie that should have come two years earlier. The inability to actually leverage

a new set of heroes and do what they promised they were gonna do five years ago, I think is the single biggest contributing factor to why this happened. Do you know what the single most important scene in Marvel history is to me? Like the single most important scene in the history of the MCU. Can you guess what I'm going to say? It happens in Iron Man One.

Oh. Hmm. So the single most important scene in the history of the MCU. Iron Man One. Yep. It happens in the first Iron Man. The single most important scene in the history of the MCU happens in Iron Man one. Tell you what it is.

Okay. Is it Tony Stark saying I am Iron Man? No, that was actually unexpected. Yeah, I know. Yeah. So before I... That was a great moment. It was.

It was. And you were like, God damn. God damn. And it was great. And it was great. So Iron Man comes out and it's almost the antithesis of what you were just talking about, right? When I looked at him on the screen, he created Tony Stark. Because that Tony Stark,

kind of didn't exist. Tony Stark was not as into the wise cracks and all of that stuff. He was kind of a dickhead asshole, tortured. Very pained character. Yeah, right? But Donnie's characterization, his performance still rang true because you could tell that the character was tortured.

You could tell that he was missing his parents. But he brought that because we knew him as an actor. As an actor, right? Now, so that character then reframe. James Ironman and you're in the world. You're in a new world. You're in a completely new world. Then the end of the movie, I'm actually getting chill bumps right now.

Tony walks in his house. Nick has broken in and he goes, you've just stumbled into a world that's much bigger than you know. Can I tell you about the Avengers initiative? It didn't matter what happened for the next two movies. It didn't. Yeah, Iron Man, too, people don't think it's good. They weathered the storm very easily.

Like what that did was it said, shit, that he wasn't, they weren't telling, Fury wasn't telling him he didn't understand how deep the world went. He was telling us we didn't understand. And so when Thor comes out and when Captain America comes out,

those are two, Captain America has aged beautiful, beautifully to me. I heard you say this on Midnight Boys, Captain America, First Avenger. It's aged beautifully to me. But when those movies came out,

they really did not have to nail the character as much as they did. Those performances and those films and those franchises, Thor didn't get a fucking bang-up movie until the third one. Captain America comes back. I know you're heartbroken right now. Dark world forever.

Hold on. I like it. I know he did. Well, like, wait, wait a minute. It's terrible. No, it's so bad. I like it. But a lot of other people, but once again, a very important movie

that Marvel goes back and makes, you know, but what I'm saying is, so those films, that you're talking about, they got the casting right. But more than anything, we were orienting ourselves to a new possibility in filmmaking, which is putting comic books on screen in a very direct way. Serializing a cinematic universe. Absolutely.

Now, the further we got away from that, the more the next episode of the thing became very important. The next episode has to keep the force and the momentum of the world going. And they just lost that. They lost that because they lost that. because they lost the connections between the world. They couldn't hold back. They didn't show very much discipline.

They gave us too much. But the reason why I go back to those films is because guardians, all the ones that have worked are ones where you still feel that there are critical elements of the MCU that you have got to see in these movies. You have got to see what happens to Thor. You have got to see what happens to Dr. Strange. you have got to see, they just, with Thunderbolts and this, it's an awesome movie.

Yeah. But it's a movie that you're going to come back to as far as the importance of it. Like, if you missed it, like what did you miss? Right. You know what I mean? Like, if you missed it, what did you miss? Fantastic Four is kind of not like that, but at the same time, it kind of is. One of the weirdest things that happens in the Fantastic Four movie is that at the end of Thunderbolts,

we get this tease for the rocket. entering from another universe and they're coming. And then there's no communication about that whatsoever. And so this is like the ninth consecutive Marvel movie that tries to end on a new step in the equation

without it seeming at all connected to any other step that they've gestured towards, whether it be hearing Blade's voice or is it Black Night, the indication of him coming around. Harry Stiles showing up at the end of a movie. Charlie Starrin at the end of Dr. Strange. That right there, dimmed,

of a total lack of creative clarity that just did not exist in past iterations of the MCU. Can I say one more thing too? So the Iron Man thing that you're talking about, Robert Taney Jr. and Samuel L. Jackson are two of the most well-known American actors of the last 50 years. And when you see them on screen

and they're taking over these iconic characters and putting their own spin on them, both of them, kind of changing those canon characters a little bit in their performances. you are doing the thing that Hollywood does well, which is you let fame elevate iconography. The new movies don't do that. The new movies are mostly casting people

who are like interesting actors who were excited about, but who are not iconic. Do you think Chris Hemsworth and, I'm not bad Mallory. You've been trying to jump here. No, no, no, no. Because I think that, okay, so like we were, we talked about Star Wars

when we talked about Superman, and that felt surprising, but also really right. And, like, it's Star Wars is on my mind hearing you describe that Avengers set up at the end of Iron Man 1 because it's like, it is literally you've taken your first step into a larger world, which is like a sacred aspect of fandom, right? Like the opening the door like a portal into a new, not just a new world, but a new experience. What's interesting, though, is like to, I think where we are in any moment of the MCU, whatever they're trying to do in a given stinger at any point in time, the thing that you're describing is. anticipation, right? Much more so than the actual outcome, though, of course, they also give us the outcome. Like, Infinity War and Endgame are great.

And so it all feels worth it. And it feels like an experience that was shared and also satisfying. And it's hard to do all of those things. When anticipation, all of these things are still set up. That was set up. But when the anticipation, like, excitement shouldn't feel overwhelming, right? when the anticipation becomes so entwined with other things, then it feels like hard.

And what you're describing is a moment of sheer, undiluted, bliss at the prospect of a thing you knew you were going to get to enjoy. There are versions of that inside of this for people still. I agree. I just feel like... But they don't exist on their own. Yeah, I was gobsmacked. I was like, I really wasn't...

I don't know if I wasn't... It was a different time. in my life. I was playing a shit ton of basketball. So I don't know if I was as up on it, but I didn't know that they were doing that. And I think that's another thing. I legitimately didn't know that they were doing that. When, when, when, when, when, I know that the chatari were in the movie. And so I'm recognizing the chatari and I know what this is going. When Thanos shows up at the end of Avengers, I didn't know that they were going to do that. And then I'm like, wait a minute. Are they about to fucking do the infinites, the infinity saga?

Yeah. I'm like, are we going to get to? an infinity war and Thanos and like, like, like, Kulika's like, like, who's Thanos? I'm like, shut the fuck up. Are they, like, I would never, but I'm like, I'm like,

oh, we're a, and, and even on a smaller scale when Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver show up in a, I'm like, what the fuck? Yeah. Like, what are the possibilities? But the march towards secret wars is in theory, if you strip away all of the particulars, at its essence, the same

thing. It's like, holy shit, they're going to do secret wars. I don't disagree, it just hasn't been executing Exactly. It's ultimately always going to be about execution, right? And like something about the core calculus, like the actual math equation, the variables have are wrong, right? And like they're out of sync with each other. And so they can't get, I don't really know how math works and I've never been good at it. But as I understand, you're supposed to get the math.

There's a thing at the end, a number. And it's like it's been out of balance and out of sync. But that core impulse that you're identifying is the single most important thing. It's still present. It's just pointing us toward a place. But you're buying. So you're saying it's pointing toward a place in East Kinow Order. That's the thing.

I still find, like, I think Eternals is a cool movie. I do. I can tell, I can see the seams in it, which is another big problem with somebody's. I can see the seams in it. For sure. I think Eternals is a cool movie. Like, I looked at it. I thought it had a cool visual style, beautiful robot, eternal robots.

that are able to... I'm into the entire lore of it. I thought it was a cool movie. And it's a movie that in past phases, we would have been like, we went, we had a good time, what's next? Dr. Strange, I look at the... We were going to go see Black Panther.

We were going to go see it. Okay? I keep trying to tell holly with this. If you can ignite black audiences to come out and see a movie, you have got a hit. It doesn't matter if the center or Black Panthers, Black Panther or whatever, Black Panthers. Make a movie about them.

If they'd have a couple. You think that would make $500 million? Maybe just me going over and over and over and over. But Dr. Strange, when you first look at Dr. Strange, that's a character that people might know. They might have seen them. They know he's the magician. Man, that movie has a point of view. That movie has stakes.

That movie has cool stuff. It's its own film about a not-that-well-known character. character that takes itself seriously in its storytelling and then at the end of it, hey, you have an infinity stone. I'm like, oh, shit, I didn't know that. Oh, my God. He's got an infinity stone around his neck. It matters.

And we just lost it along the way. Let me ask you a question. Because I like the first Doctor Strange movie, actually, quite a bit. I love it. I enjoy it quite a bit as well. We're very attuned. If that movie came out in phase four. what is the response to it?

It doesn't hit the same way. Right. So some of this is the context of the moment. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. And like, what I'm saying is once you... Everything post-Ed game is like, you know...

But listen, you've read comic books, right? Yeah. You have to continue... Yeah, you're moving towards something. You have to, but also as a reader, you have to keep buying the issues at the comic book. Yeah. Because once it gets to the point that you have to make time

the to read three, four, five, six books. Right, right. Like, if... The Infinity Saga is oriented around, we get a lot of stuff in it, but it's oriented around the Avengers initiative. To your point. Yeah. Right?

Whatever the third saga is, will be oriented around the X-Men? And so that will have clarity of intention and vision. But the multiverse, the multiversal saga was, let's try everything. And some of it hit and some of it didn't. But for a lot of people, I think, and I've enjoyed many of these movies and many of the shows. I think for a lot of people, it's just like, I hear a lot about all the things that didn't work. And so I feel like I thought I need to opt out of this entirely.

Right? I mean, yeah. I've covered every single Marvel movie that's been released since 2017. And I will see everyone until I die. Like, I am committed to this weird thing that they are doing, even though seven out of the last 10, I think, have been straight up below average. I just think that they have changed course at least five times within the last five years. Some of those things are out of their control.

The Jonathan Major's thing, that was out of their control. Chadwick? You know, like that? Chadwick, I think Chuck said that on the pod the other day. It was like, if Chadwick Bozeman lives, expert podcast. Maybe this is completely different. And that is possible, right?

That was one of the single most important people that we would have held onto going from, you know, Infinity Saga to whatever this is now. it didn't happen. A series of things happened. They never properly recovered. You say they clean up their messes, but like, to me, it ain't clean.

To me, it's been a mess for years. And the fact that we as common moviegoers can see the seams and the failures and storytelling and even in the visual execution of the movie, for these movies that are like the most important movies in the world to the biggest Moobio studio in the world is pretty rough, guys.

Like, it's rough. Did they get high on their own supply? Oh, definitely. Did they? Because like, look, if you're, I've produced a couple of movies. You got making a movie with the script. It's fucking incredible. Like, people do it all the time. I mean, they do it.

They improv. Like, Pete, like, but making a movie. Read the stories about F1. Read the stories about how hard it was to make F1. It can be done and be done successfully. And it seems like Marvel has done it in the past successfully as well. It sounds like Ragnarok is a movie that was like ripped up and rewritten multiple times during the making of that movie

that movie's a lot of fun. Great film. But like at this point I just feel like the real, okay get back to it. The reason why I'm buying is because I do believe that the MCU will course correct. I don't think things will ever be the same, but they never are.

Like after the mid-90s gangster rap was never the same. There was, it changed. I'm not saying it went away. It actually got bigger but there was a truth and a power mixed with a commercial identity with that music that kind of changed after

the death row era and after the stuff that we was doing down south with Master P. When we got into the 2000s and stuff, now we got million dollar budgets on the gangster rap videos. It's just, it's a change. Marvel will be different. I do still think, though, I do still

think that the X-Men and there's a couple of more bullets in the gun. Definitely. There's a couple a more bill of the gun. I think next year is a big year. Obviously, Spider-Man is going to work. You keep saying that. Do you think it will be

in terms of box office worldwide, where will it stack up amongst the four what will then be four Tom Holland movies? This will be the second. You think that No way home still beats it? Yeah. No question. It's a billion-dollar movie. This will be second. This movie's not getting a billion dollars. I'll bet you dinner at a restaurant of your choice.

that it'll cross a billion dollars? I'm gonna, since I assume that was an offer to both of us, let's do tasting menu wine pairing at Providence. I love Providence. Same. I have not even agreed to the bet, let alone a $1,500 dinner for the three of us. I think keeping it to $1,500 for three with the wine pair is actually pretty hard.

I'm telling you right now, if Deadpool and Wolverine are R-rated, if that movie makes one point, Spider-Man is going to a billion. Spider-Man is going to a billion. Who's the other character in that movie that is going to? going to get you out, get the casuals out to see it. Because obviously the last Spider-Man movie leveraged two generations of Spider-Man movie fandom to get everybody out. So who is the character that's getting everybody out?

I personally think that you got the Hulk in the movie. That's not anything. I think it's cool for a lot of people to see it. They like the Hulk in the movie. I'm not saying I'm not excited. I think they like the Hulk in the movie, Sean. We're talking about the casuals versus the hardcores. So I personally think that the movie is going to have enough of a superhero roster

and the people that saw No Way Home, which is a lot of people, right? Oh, yeah. They are curious. Once again, this movie doesn't suffer for some of the same things than other people. They are curious about what Spider-Man they're about to get. Now, if they come out and they do, Mr. Stark, again, a lot of people are going to be pissed. You know, I don't like that. No, they're obviously going for a more mature, grown-up Tom Holland portrayal.

I think those people are curious about what type of, but if this, I'll tell you what. Stranger Things, Hive, enter in the Spider-Man chat with all the casting rumors. These movies have to leverage a certain kind of nostalgia right now to get over a billion dollars. Deadpool and Wolverine does that very well. It's Spider-Man. This movie will be hugely popular. The other two Spider-Man movies, I don't think, are over a billion.

I know. I don't think they were over a billion. I think we were still stretching our legs with him as Spider-Man and the Spider-Man at MCU. I think... Overseas, they don't care about superheroes anymore, guys. The numbers are not there. We just got 1.6 billion, just like

She was the Middwell War rings 24. It's Spider-Man. It's Spider-Man, Sean. Providence. Tasting. Yeah. Love that. I have not agreed to this.

And I will not. You have and you will be treating us both. Pass by. It doesn't look like much when you pass by. Providence. Wonderful establishment. But when you go inside that, motherfucker. Can I tell you true story?

I had dinner there once in 2014. My wife and I was our anniversary. It's really special. It's a great restaurant. And we sat down and it was an early reservation because it's hard to get a reservation. So it was like 5.30. And the restaurant. I was kind of empty at 5.30. It was weird.

Now I eat it at 5.30 every day. But back then, it was crazy to do that. We did it. There was no one else in the restaurant, but me and my wife. And they sat a guy and his family down at the table next to us. This motherfucker was wearing a t-shirt, green shorts, and a backpack. Like a full backpack in Providence. Well, I'm sure he had a great meal.

Hold on. Man, put on a collar for trying out of it. You found a reservation for us? There's only been one. You know what? We used to pass by it on the TMZ tour. I got kind of friendly with some of the people there and used to give me good tips.

So there's only been one Spider-Man movie that hasn't made a billion dollars. Only one hasn't. So the first one did? The first one didn't. Right. Homecoming didn't. So far from home made a billion dollars?

Okay. Just over. Okay. Just over. Just over. Look, I was blown away. I stand corrected, by the way. By the box office returns.

It was about time, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Put me in my place. Yeah. I'm in Mal's house today. I was blown. loaned away by the box office returns

Fantastic 4. I did not think it was possible. I'm not going to lie. Yeah. I didn't think it was possible. So anything's possible with Spider-Man. I just... No Way Home made almost 2 billion. Yeah. 1.9 billion. So that's why I think... God damn, for real? The fourth one... Yeah. What's the split between domestic and international?

800 Domestic, 814, and then 1.1 international. Will not... Will not be even close on the next movie. But it can... clear a billion and still finish as a distant second to this. Spider-Man is going to play better in China than Fantastic Four is for sure. But we're just not going back to that time, guys.

Are there any American movies? Okay, first of all, before we even, because people keep saying that, I don't think we're completely, we're just pod now. But people keep saying that and I don't completely understand why. So is it, are these economic? Because China spent the last 20 years determining how to build their own studios to make their own original films that would take the place of the American films that were playing in those countries.

So the reason that the Fast and the Furious was such an extraordinary franchise, not just here, but overseas, was because it played so well in China. This is true of a lot of different franchises. And those days are over. I mean, the percentages of success from, like, if you look at what Fantastic Four made in China, I think it's certainly less than $100 million, probably closer to like $60 or $70 million. Right. 10 years ago, you could have counted on $300 or $400 million.

So then I guess, all right, well, then, interesting conversation to have them. So. Do you know what is the highest grossing movie worldwide this year? Demon Slayer? No, it's Nijad 2. They're re-releasing it. A sequel to, they're re-releasing it next week in America. That movie is great.

It's a Chinese production and animated movie. Right. And that movie's made over $2 billion worldwide. Yeah. Roughly 90% of which is in Asia and primarily in China. Okay. So I guess my question is this, look, in everything that we follow and get into, we've kind of had to change what we view success as, right?

The pace of the game changes in the NBA. You change what a good feel like right now. When we were watching baseball growing up, you look at the All-Star break, and a motherfucker would be hitting three fucking 40. Yeah. It's just over now. And a Cy Young winner had to win 20 games before you realize if that didn't matter. It's over now.

Is that a better time? I prefer it. Like I like seeing people I like to see people hit for average I prefer. Now everybody throws the ball 150 miles an hour at all times. Watch show hey last night. Shohei threw two breaking balls off the plate

then went fuck it. 98, 99, 101. I'm like, what this shit is going on? Mason Miller is routinely on Corking 104. 103. So things have changed, right? And then there's a new metric, a new metric standard

for what is successful. So if that's the case, I can deal with that. Met's suck then. They suck now. What would that new outlook look like for the superhero movie? Are you saying, so then if it's not 1.9, if Spider-Man's not going to make $1.9, right? If it's not going to make a billion dollars overseas, fine, Spider-Man might not make a billion dollars overseas. I think they can still make a lot of money.

So is 1.3? Is it 1.2? It can't be, Spider-Man has to make a billion dollars particularly like that. I mean, it's just math. I think the two things have happened. one, these movies are a lot more expensive to make, and inflation has significantly hit this sector of the business pretty hard. And the way that they navigate the visual effects budgets is kind of fascinating because they're obviously cutting cost while also, while the budgets are also rising. To me, I think what needs to happen, hopefully, is that they get a little bit

back to a slightly more grounded version of the storytelling that is more akin to Logan and stop trying to make every movie an intergalactic interteam saga with a dramatic over-expansion of the visual palette and the third act. Like the sameness, the leaning on the formula of there has to be a big fight full of CGI for the final 28 minutes of this movie. To me is one of the biggest mistakes they've made. I think that's something the casual fans are just like, this is just the same thing over and over again. It doesn't seem new or interesting. So if they, that's a way to actually cut down the budget is to get a sharper script and let some people. like Scott Frank write one of these movies,

instead of trying to do it by committee and all this other stuff that they've been doing. It's also like, with the MCU in particular, I mean, this is true of everything, but with the MCU in particular, you have so many different points of comparison and things to measure and weigh the success against, creatively, box office, anything.

Like, you're not just looking at the MCU of the past, but now you're looking at the DCU. But you're also not just looking at the DCU. You're looking at an original genre film like sinners or an adaptation of a thing. text like Project Hail Mary or Dune 3. Like the highs

on the genre front are undeniable. It's not like people can't make a popular sci-fi movie. De Nevilleville knows what's to do a James Bond movie. Yeah. Unless he has to put What's Her Face in it? You haven't seen that?

I have. You saying that Jeff Beaslis' wife should not be in the James Bond film? Is that your opinion? Put her in the movie, bro. Put her in the movie. That shit would be funny to me. I want to see her as Money Penny. I want her to have a like a real role. What if she's a really great actress? Could be.

What if she is Merrill Street? That would be such a kick in the ball to us. It would be so, we'd be, okay, so this is what I'll say. They couldn't get Merrill Street because she's busy making a Narnia movie. Right. Yeah, selling out to big IP. So, I'm a world product too. My thoughts on the big fight at the end of the movie,

I think audiences are into it as long as the fight makes sense. but you said the fight made sense in Fantastic Four. We mean. Like you liked the finale, right? I know. I think the fight made sense, but I don't think the movie... Not the highlight of the film. Not the highlight of the film.

But remember... Galactus went down a little bit. Remember, these movies have gigantic fights at the end of them. Yeah. Batman Begins has a gigantic... The city is like the Dark Night. These movies have gigantic fights at the end of them. It's building to a confrontation

for all of the marbles that is a part of it. I just think people want to feel like that there are either stakes or some otherworldly visual spectacle that you can't take your eyes off of. But it was just two people dancing around

in bad CGI. You get that you're, it's something that you're supposed to care about. And there's nothing worse than putting something on the screen, something that people are supposed to care about and then they don't. When Vanessa Kirby was like doing this,

I was like, is this self-parody? No. I thought, I was thinking there's my wife and she looks dynamite as always. As always. Just like, that's not cinematic. To watch a person stand like this while who comes out of their hands. She's stopping a space god from killing her family. You guys know.

How dare you, Sean, Tennessee? I know you're holding on to it and I respect it because you love it. I know, I know you love it. You can't tell me that that's even in the place where, like, we were with Infinity War or any game. Nobody's saying it. Infinity War, how dare you? They already set the bar. They already set the bar.

If everything they make after Infinity War and Endgame is measured against infinity, if that's the measuring stick, that's impossible. We built toward those two movies for a decade. We should compare Doomsday to those movies? Do you think it was exhilarating when Robert De Niro was, when, oh, she was about to piss me off? Did you think it was exhilarating when Robert De Niro was beating up that guy? The Irishman. You're the second person

in the last 24 hours that brought that up to me. At dinner last night somebody brought that up to me too. I didn't like that now. It would have been better to just recast another actor there. You don't like the Irishman?

Rarely does a three-hour movie actually growing. But I like me. Too short. Always been my take. I like it should have been eight hours. The only thing I really don't like about the Irishman.

I like about the Irishman. Whatever. It's like Pachino made no attempt to actually be like Jimmy Hoffa in any way of a way. form, which was really interesting.

But back to the Marvel stuff. Last thing. Because every time we start a Marvel conversation, I do still think that there are 24-gold characters. No question. I think the biggest thing, the biggest revelation

is that the Fantastic Force, not one of them. Is that they still had, hear me out now, is that they still had work to do with casual audiences to get Superman prove that he still is. right which was you know you were wondering and a Fantastic Four proved that and it's it's a possibility that they mean more to comic fans than they do to casual it's there's a possibility i think that's hard to even assess that because the prior Fantastic Four films were so abominable that you couldn't even gauge audience interest it's like what is there to be interested in this these movies are bad but now we can gauge that and it's yeah so so to me If Marvel can do the thing where they can make big, huge event films out of the characters, once again, that people have to see.

Yeah. And then keep the energy from those movies, pour those energies into something like a Captain Marvel, which was a billion-dollar movie out of nowhere, then it can still work. But they have to make less films for sure and spend more time on not the world building. Right. because they've done that more time on the connective tissue. To your point, going to Sea Fantastic Four, the biggest nitpick I had is that their world didn't end. Yeah.

Their world was supposed to end, and they were supposed to get on the fucking ship and then fly to Doomsday. And that may, and that would have made, that would have been a better setup for Doomsday. But I liked that that didn't happen just because it was a surprise to me. I thought, Galactus wins or there's an incursion,

and that's why they have to go. But now it's like, no, we move forward at the end. in the Stinger, four years forward in time. We have another impetus now to send them. What happens to their world, that we probably not going to see it. Or we'll see it in a rushed piece of doomsday that just goes, hey. Sure. So, I don't know.

Sean's not going to see it at all. He's going to be busy playing Death Stranding. You know what? I'm not even talking to movies, talking about you about movies anyway, because you're not going to see anything. No. Anymore. No, I'm going to see it all. I always see it all.

Elgin, you won't have time to see another movie. I think people really think that I hate Marvel movies or something. I don't. I go into every single one hoping it's going to be good. I thought quantum mania was not bad. Not bad. Overhaided. There's some Marvel movies that we should do that. That's the next three-person part.

Overhated and overrated. There are some Marvel movies that are overhated. There's a bunch of them. In the last five years, there's a bunch of them that are all like three out of fives for me. Quantumadia, Multiverse of Madness. Three out of five on letterbox? Shang-chi.

All those movies are all like pretty good They're all pretty fun Then there's a few That suck They just they suck Like I and you got we gotta be real You gotta be real with the people Sure

And the people are telling us now When a Marvel movie is bad we're real about it But we enjoyed Fantastic Four And that is just I enjoy Fantastic Four Legitimately I'm just responding to every psychotic MCU fan for the first two days After our episode came out

Where they were like so mad and I haven't heard a fucking peep from those people since the movie dive-bombed. Talk your shit, Sean! They're alone in the wilderness now. They know that they are in a tiny little island of fandom. See, this is not the whole world. Talk your shit, Sean.

They came at you and now you're... They're going to find you. You're lost. They're going to find your gamer tag once you get your Xbox and they're going to find you and they're going to yell at you there. I love all them. Thank you to them for hating us. Thank you to both of you.

It's a good investment that you've done. I think so. Bye, Lowe. Next year's going to be a big year. Spidey's going to be great. Next year will be popular. Secret Wars, hopefully will be good. The 2026 is fucking crazy. Yeah, next year's going to be nuts.

I hope so. TV too. He doesn't watch TV, but a lot of good TV. Yeah. Not for you. It's not for you. All right. Okay.

Great to see you both. Yeah. Thank you, Mallory. Thank you for what I think we'll end up being part one of a now two-part podcast. Okay, cool. Okay. Everybody's favorite take Lord. Let's go.

Charles Holmes is here to make his, to make his, inaugural House of our Stockwatch pick. You can buy, sell, or hold anything in the nerdverse that you think is reflective of the moment in time, feels important, tells us where we're going, shows us where we want to go, what we want to avoid. I feel like everybody who's watching who's tuning in right now is like, what's Charles going to sell? What is Charles here to say, no, don't buy it? Is that where you're going? Or have you brought the positivity today? I'm pivoting. Tell us. I'm buying. You're buying.

I'm buying some Tom Holland stock. Oh, this is a great one. I am saying it right now. This is a great one. I'm pivoting a lot of you. He's like, he's going to sell MCU. He's going to do this. He's going to hold on that.

But no, no, no, no. I feel like as a culture, we've been perhaps a little unfair to Mr. Holland, especially after the big success of No Way Home. I think part of that is just like, hey, man, you can't have it all. You can't be Spider-Man. and also almost being married to Zendaya, like you're going to get some hate. But, and also some of the movies and choices he made after were adventurous,

but didn't have the biggest return on the estimate. A journey of self-discovery and exploration. And to his credit, all, I feel like all of the Spider-Men before him, whether it was Toby McGuire, Andrew Garfield, Daniel Radcliffe with Harry Potter, Robert Pattinson playing Edward and Twilight. I think this is a very traditional Hollywood trajectory when you play a character

that means so much to people and that people grow up with. Sometimes it's very, very difficult to shake that off. Then you're like, I'm going to go do equis on stage or I'm going to make a Safdi Brothers movie. Or like, yeah. And after the fact, I feel like now...

Those were both great, by the way. Yes. But now we, I think we think of Robert Patton as a serious actor. And I remember in the moment, him being like the weirdo and a lot of the movies that he was in. You're like, well, he's interesting.

But the movie didn't make that much money and it didn't work and blah, blah, blah, and this and that. And now he's Batman again. Now he's one of the leading men in Hollywood. And I think we kind of paper over the fact that that was a difficult transition. Same thing with Radcliffe. Same thing with Andrew Garfield, one of my favorite actors, who has just come into his own, like, oh, my gosh.

And I think Tom Holland is ready for that. And I think with Odyssey coming out, the Nolan movie, he's like people are treating him like he's pock walking around with Spider-Man. Just the photos. and just seeing him be a little bit older, a little bit more angular in the face, not just being the teenage boy Spider-Man, but really just feeling like he's taking on the mantle

and like making it his own. Am I wrong? Does the energy around Holland feel a little different now? I think this is a great pick, a great buy. It's a great time to buy. It's kind of always been a good time to buy Tom Hollandstock because who really ever believed that the dip was going to last, you know? But I think you're right that this is a good time.

the moment where the fact that both brand new day, Spidey 4 and The Odyssey come out, I mean, who knows, things move, slates change. But at the moment, the fact that those movies are coming out in the same month of the same calendar year, I think we have the, what awaits is the moment where it feels like Tom Holland is the most powerful force in the world. Yeah. Like, so the fact that you're buying early and you're ahead of that is why you're a trailblazer and a trendsetter and this is why you're you. I think that the like, I mean, I love, I love that we've had debates over the years. You know that Tom Holland is my favorite Spider-Man. I love his Spider-Man. I love those movies. I can't wait for the new movie. It is such a radically, like I don't think we can

overstate how distinct the, even though it's only been at the time of this recording, like a week, a week and a half. This was not a thing they used to do. They didn't say, oh, this, look, check out this dramatic reveal of the suit. And here's a little behind the scenes video of our first day on set. And here is like this shot of me riding a tank down the street talking about how sick it is to be Spider-Man again. Like those sets were the most locked down places of the world.

And it just feels like there's obviously some of this is. Hey, MCU fans. don't forget that we're going to be back with Spider-Man 4 soon. Like it's going to be okay. Everything's going to be all right. Stay excited. But to your point,

this feels radically different from what we've died in the past. And I think that it speaks to what you're identifying, which is just there's like kind of a, okay, what can we agree on? There's so much debate. What can we agree on? And it's like,

Tom Holland as Peter Parker is just always fun and always good. Great. The Odyssey is going to be one of the defining cultural experiences of next year. Right? The fact that he has, such a central role in the film playing Odysseus and Penelope's son.

Like, that's a big deal. Obviously, the cast for that movie is fucking nuts. Even by the standard of a Nolan movie, like, it's almost incomprehensible how many famous people are in that movie. But, like, the first trailer that came out for the movie was oriented around Tom Holland and Ringer patron saint John Barrenthal. Like, that feels really notable and really meaningful. The, you've recently made it.

a pretty spectacular return to Instagram where you've been posting a lot of your original photography beautiful. I would say, I mean, I support you and all your hobbies and your passions. More importantly, a lot of photos of your cat. Yes. Sushi. So this has been a big part of

my joy recently and I'm buying on Charles returning to Instagram in a powerful way. But I assume you know this because you've been spending time on Instagram and it was hard to miss. Tom Holland did an interview in a cold plunge tub. and stood up from the cold plunge tub and his t-shirt clung to his muscles.

And it was, I have a tendency toward hyperbole. It was inescapable on the internet. It was like all people wanted to talk about was like the fact that Tom Holland had muscles. And it's like, right, people just love Tom Holland. They're excited to have an excuse to talk about Tom Holland. They like seeing Tom Holland in their feed. Like the James Bond rumor is the one kind of interesting, I think, I wouldn't say it's a counterweight because there's plenty of enthusiasm around it. But I'm curious if you think that like the Tom Holland Bond rumors have sparked a lot of like, oh, clearly that's the right pick and Tom Holland should be James Bond.

Or if it feels to you like everybody is still in a little bit of a, I'm trying to process and parse all of these rumors. And I feel like these five people would make sense and these five people I don't want. but like doesn't feel like necessarily Holland has been like a runaway, everybody's saying it has to be Tom, but also that if they picked him, people would be thrilled, I think. Well, I don't think Holland would be right for Bond.

I think what people are locating is that he's one of the few bankable young stars that like when you're talking about Bond just makes sense, where it's like a lot of times I feel like with Bond, it's like, do you go with the super hot famous actress right now? or I mean actor or the actor that we're trying to kind of like elevate. But I think what you're also locating is Tom Holland, I think in the cultural consciousness was everybody's favorite little brother.

And he had that energy, especially with Tony, with Tony in the Ironman relationship. And now I think it's, I don't, it must be great photography. It's something about seeing him in that suit, seeing how he's carrying himself, seeing him talk to the kids. It kind of reminds me of what D.C. did. so effectively with corn sweat, where it was like, even if you don't know who this guy is, we are going to show you when he's interacting with kids who think he's Superman, or he's doing this interview where you're just like, oh, I'm buying corn sweats, so I'm buying Superman.

And I think I'm buying Tom Holland more just as even just like a sex symbol where I'm just like, okay, I'm starting to see it in my mind where I'm kind of starting to situate and where I'm like, oh, this might be the path is kind of like Chris Pine when, where I'm just, like they don't look similar, but to me, they both have that thing where whenever they're on screen, I'm just like, you guys are so warm and so charming that I just want to watch you. You might not be the dramatic actor that people like, oh my gosh, like both of them can act phenomenally. But like, I was just like, oh, Tom Holland, I just kind of want to hang out with them. And that's probably why I won't, to me, doesn't make as great of a bond.

Because I'm just like, no, I want to go to the pub with you. And I want to play. Like catch and just like, hey, Tom Holland, how's your day going? Right. But you are describing the perfect Peter Parker. But also a different Peter Parker. A different people. That's why his Peter has been, again, we had a midnight court about this back in the day, but like, just felt so specifically and perfectly rendered inside this moment of comic book movie dumb and inside of the MCU. And like, I am so fascinated to see exactly what the positioning of.

of this Peter is in this movie and this moment in time and then what, how much of the weight of the MCU he's carrying on his shoulders moving forward because that feels like the other thing. It's like, obviously this is always true with the MCU.

Characters exist in their own franchises and then they exist in this shared tapestry, right? That's the whole thing. But like, that, again, I mean, we just talked about this a few minutes ago, but the like, hey, we're back, we're making another Spidey movie just felt to me like such a deliberate

active countermeasure to people talking about the box office woes, right? It's like Tom Holland is here not only to make a new Spider-Man movie but to save the MCU and it's like that's a heavy burden but I think he can carry it.

It's to me one of the most like narratively poetic things to happen in the MCU where it's like you needed Ironman to convince the world that we were ready for a new Spider-Man so soon and through those three movies you were seeing Tom Holland come into his own

not only as Spider-Man, but as an actor and this figure. And now when I think of, we talked about on The Midnight Boys, when I think of the future of the Fantastic Four, I'm like, I think it would be great to see Peter with the Human Torch and with the Fantastic Four. I think it would be great to see Tom Holland have some type of connection with the younger actors who are going to play the X-Men.

I would not be surprised, even in Doomsday in all of these movies where they're like, okay, this is our Iron Man. This is kind of the guy where it's like, he might not be in every movie, but he is the beating heart and the spine of this story. And it seems like Tom Holland, I wouldn't be surprised if he does another two solo movies after this. That would be great. And does it. I think he's going on the Daniel Craig route of like, actually I'm going to play this character for another go around.

Right. And to me, I think that's so excited. I was like, I would sign up for another trio of Tom Holland movies. I'm doing that. Same. Same. I mean, obviously, there was all of the kind of like, the ultimately false, you know, IP character rights arrangements, false terror around maybe never getting to be the third one, which ultimately was, you know, a huge frenzy and then resolved and fine. But every time we get a new Spider-Man movie because of the Sony Disney of it all, there is that period of like, and maybe we'll never get another one again. And I feel like we have collectively moved into everybody involved in this in any way knows that that would be the wrong decision.

Everyone. It is just so clear what the right decision is, which is to keep making Tom Holland a part of your universe, right? As the universe expands and as we try different things, make sure he's a part of it in some way. because people have fun with that character and fun with those movies. And, like, that's just, I mean, we both really liked The Fantastic Four. I find this, like, narrative around that movie to be perplexing and, frankly, like, a huge bummer. But I'm at the point where I don't care. Like, I just like, I like the movie so much where I just have had to be like, I don't want to talk about.

Yeah. I don't care about the one. Same. Same. But I think even almost on, like, a subconscious level, it kind of can't help but further than, like, amplify the things that feel like. They're not constantly subsumed and like, well, actually, like, did this work? It's like the fact, Joe and I have talked about this a lot. You guys have talked about this a lot on Midnight Boys PPU.

Like the fact that like people are like Thunderbolts, what a miss. It's like, what? That movie was good, you know? And obviously it would be great if more people saw it. But we need a little bit of the Tom's Peter Parker jolt in the arm here, clearly. And then everybody can be happy about it. And that will be welcome. And so it is a great buy.

It's a great moment. to buy. I'm excited to continue to track the James Bond rumors. I thought when you mentioned Daniel Craig that you were going to say, actually he is going to be James Bond. I will say, I don't think Holland. I don't think Holland is going to be Bond,

but I do think that Holland, I would not be surprised if he becomes another franchise guy, very, very soon. In the same way where I'm just like, the more we get on Pattinson and Batman, the more rumors we hear about that, I'm just like, I don't know if there's a world where he's just not the DCU Batman. Because I think we're just, we're getting to a point where it's like Hollywood is like,

people trust Tom Holland as a box office product. We trust Robert Pattinson. Now we trust corn sweat. Let's not mess it up guy. I like with all this stuff, I think the studios are starting to be like, you know what? We have a good thing. Let's not overcomplicate. We trust crypto.

We trust Eagley. Hell yeah. We know how to make a good movie and a good show. God damn it. All right. Great pick. Great bye. Wonderful to see you, as always my friend. Wonderful to see you.

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discover the craftsmanship behind every bite. Borshead committed to craft since 1905. Joining us now from a phone booth in New York. Fitting, given what his pick is about to be. You're not a metropolis, but you are in a phone booth in New York. It is Daniel Chin. Daniel, welcome back to House of Our. Great to see you, bud.

How are you? Great to see you too, Mallory. It's great to be here. What is your buy, sell, or hold? for summer 2020. You can pick any thing in the nerd verse. You could pick whether to buy sell or hold it. The nerd world is your oyster.

What are you selecting? So I'm buying stock in the DCU. I know it's not exactly the hottest take right now. But it's just something you have to do right now, I think. I mean, Superman, there was so much pressure, so much anticipation around this movie. And I think that they nailed it. I think there are certain things that I can.

could, you know, pick a part for this movie. But overall, I think it was just really good as a setup to the DCU. And I think that the DCU is in great hands with James Gunn. I think the direction that it's going in is very, very exciting for especially people that weren't fans of the DC-Extended universe, which I feel like there are very many of them. Are there people who weren't fans of the DCU? Is that a thing? Really? A lot of Snyderverse. Haven't heard. This is news to me. There are a lot of people still living in the Snyderverse. But I think there is a lot to be hopeful for moving forward for the first time in well over a decade.

So I think it's definitely time to buy stock in it. Daniel, you opened totally reasonably with a little bit of a, oh, is this like, is this obvious? Is this too much of a fastball down the middle? You know, red meat. Should I have come in and shocked you with one of my hot takes? Here's the thing. Here's what you have done. Here's the service that you have provided to this podcast, all of the bad babies.

B's listening and frankly to yourself, you have followed something that is like a golden rule here at the ringer and it's don't overthink it, right? You have done the like, I'm going to pick the Patriots every year to win the Super Bowl until it no longer makes sense to pick the Patriots. I am going to pick the Kansas City Chiefs now. That is not a good comp in the sense that the precedent and that long track record is not intact for the DCU, but you're doing that I think because of the James Gunn track record. That's the applicable part of. it, right? And because Superman, I'm with you completely here, I support the buy-in full, I'm buying DCU stock as well, Superman was like as confident of an opening note as we could possibly have,

not to give us a reason to believe or to be hyped, but to cement the hype and the belief that we all already felt because we're such fans of Guardians, we liked James Gunn's Suicide Squad movie, we loved Peacemaker season one, et cetera. So to me, the DC, the DCU hype right now, and the reason to feel enthusiastic about where we are is, like, as much about the opening salvo of Superman, which, like, Crypto Take Me Home Now and Always, as the fact that we're talking today at the end of this week, we're a week away from Peacemaker Season 2, which I feel like is just going to be an absolutely raucous, good, though not necessarily clean, fun time for all of us to have. Like, I can't wait for that season of TV.

I love Season 1. I've been missing that show, Eagley, back in our lives at last. And we're just not that far away from other exciting things. Like, Supergirl is just next year. It's next June. Clayface is next fall. The overall gods and monster slate is so intriguing and, like, the volume of news that is still pending that's just going to, like, ramp up our joy from there.

Can't wait for all of that. And then you've got gone at the Peacemaker premiere this week. Like, let me tell you something. I've already, I finished the treatment for the next installment in the Superman saga. He's on it. We're on it, man. It's all happening. What's not to buy?

Exactly. I mean, the Superman saga, he's already hyping up. I mean, the treatment for the next story is already done. Incredible flex, honestly. But I mean, to your point, yeah, exactly, right? But to your point, I mean, there's just, there's so many exciting projects coming down the line. I really just like the creatives that he's teaming up with, too. I mean, Mike Flanagan doing a Clayface story was just,

not at all what I was expecting to be one of the first DCU projects, but I'm so excited for that. It's shocking, honestly. That's shocking. Yeah, like a true detective style, like lantern show. Like, it's just really creative takes. And he's just choosing the right people. So I'm, I'm very excited. Like, so far, we've seen a lot of the James Gunn stuff, right? We've had Creature Commandos. We've peacemaker coming up. It's been a lot of James Gun, but I'm also just really excited to see the different directions that other filmmakers take this, this new DCU. Which pending release from somebody, I mean, obviously, Gunn is, you know, the overlord, but from somebody other than Gunn, are you most anticipating at this point? Is it Clayface? Is it Lanterns? I mean, I almost am like not prepared to talk about lanterns yet. I'm so excited about it. But is one of those or is there something else that's pending? And obviously, of course, we have, you know, this is outside of the DCU and the Gunverse, but, but we're, is one of those? Or is there something else that's pending? And obviously, of course, we have, you know, this is outside of the DCU and the Gunverse, but, but, we of course have the anticipation around the next Pattinson, Batman, the next Reeves,

Batman coming. So it's just like a, in general. I mean, you're specifically, I think, picking the DCU stock. But overall, there's like a larger DC as the animator of the zeitgeist by that you could play. So like what specific thing is most exciting to you that's on the horizon for the next few months, the next few years, or is it sort of the like sheer heft of everything? that is compelling you to make this pick. I do think it is the sheer heft,

but there are just a lot of really interesting picks or interesting projects coming up, like light clay face, but also like if Swamp Thing ever gets made with James Mangold attached, I mean, it sounds like the most recent updates weren't great there, but if that ever actually comes, I think that's very exciting.

I saw recently that Zach Craigor, who directed weapons, is going to have an original script or original original project within the DCU, possibly called like henchmen. So just really like going for people like this though, I think is what's most exciting for me. And hopefully I think the fact that James Gunn is a filmmaker himself and it's something that

him and Peter Safran has really been promoting is that they're going to let filmmakers have their own creative visions and really try to see those visions, like realize those visions on screen in a way where hopefully there's not this kind of uniformity that we've been feeling for some time in the MCU. Of course, there's been a bit of a shift in that for the MCU. but that's, I think, one of the biggest knocks on what happened in the multiverse saga. So I'm hopeful that's going to change under James Gunn. Yeah, I think that's a great note, like that combination of the overarching cohesive vision

and then the variance inside of that. A filmmaker's specific perspective, genre variance, tonal variance, distinct character universes, and then, of course, the thrill of the team-ups and seeing what it feels like when those different color palettes and energies mash up on screen. Like, that literally is what it means to be a comic book fan and a fan of comic book movies. So to, like, be able to luxuriate in that with DC movies and have so much to look forward to over the next few years is great. I think this is a great pick.

I'm buying the stock with you. I hope we have a lot of exciting things to pot about over the next few years together. That would be just a win. That would just be a win all around. If not, at least we have crypto and at least we have Eagley. We'll always have that. Exactly. Daniel, thank you for joining us today for.

the inaugural House of our Stockwatch. Thanks for having me. All right, folks, it's not a Star Wars pod, but it doesn't matter. Old Ben Limburgie, Ben Limburg is still here. Is he here to tell us about Star Wars lore?

Is he here to tell us about something else? Someone else in this pod was on his video game corner. So, Ben, what will you be buying, selling, or holding across the nerdverse and the pop culture universe right now. I will be selling Warner Brothers pictures. Tell me why. That's kind of counterintuitive.

I'm zagging here. But it's because I'm cashing out because my stock options have vested. I've made a killing over the past few months. And it can only go down from here. So it's a buy low, sell high situation. That's the way it is, right? not the other way around. You come to me for Star Warsiller, not investment advice.

Well, a theme of the pod is nobody knowing how stocks work. But I do think you actually might because this is sound investment logic. If the stock is up, recoup your investment, get something from it while you can. However, stocks can continue to rise. They can continue, yeah, to go up or at least to sustain at an excellent price point. So does this sell indicate that you have less? confidence in the rest of 2025, 2006, and beyond Warner Brothers picture slate?

Or is it more that the current like frenzy of, hey, all of these WB movies are dynamite. People are liking them. The box office is buzzing. We're back. We've never been so back. Feels like a kind of like collective approval rating that cannot possibly continue to sustain.

Like, what is driving this? It's mostly the latter. It's not so much a long-term forecast that I have no faith in the brand. But most of their movies for this year have come out. So I suppose by that standard, the best is behind them for 2025. But I am here because I do, in fact, have to hand it to David Zaslov because he's had an incredible year. Warner Brothers pictures. I know.

I didn't think I'd be saying this. No one would have been saying that several months ago. But the studio is just on an incredible heater right now. And it's largely nerd culture content to the rescue. And it's a true turnaround because Warner's was down bad about five months ago, maybe. Like late last year into early this year was rough. You had Joker, which flopped. You had, which is an understatement.

That's generous. Yeah. Charitable. Some straight to streaming movies just kind of came and went. Red One did not do well in theaters, though it was popular in Prime Video. They barely released juror number two in theaters. That was kind of a controversy. And then where of the Rohirim didn't get a great reception.

Right. So early this year, that kind of continues because Mickey 17, a movie that we were excited for, disappointed. Then the Alto Knights bombed. So the studio was just on this extended losing streak to the point that on March 28th, Variety ran a story with the headline, Mike DeLucah and Pam Abdi under fire at Warner Bros. there's amid box office flops. They're the co-heads of the studio. Their jobs were in jeopardy because things had been so bad.

And that headline looks sort of silly and alarmist in retrospect because it's just been nothing but winning for Warner since then. It's just, you know, Minecraft movie, of course, huge hit, followed by sinners, followed by the year, arguably, yeah. Final Destination bloodlines. I mean, sinners fast track to the rewatchables as a sign of its success. F1 and then Superman and then weapons, just a string. I mean, this is six in a row.

The accountant two was mixed in there also. But this is just, you know, just wanted to shout out Bench. Sure. Always. Fellow Benz, we stick up for each other. But this is evidently unprecedented that a single studio has had six consecutive openings of over $40 million. This has never happened before.

Also, evidently unprecedented. seven number one openings in a year. That is amazing. It is. Mickey 17 opened number one, too. It was just a week weekend at the box office. But cumulatively, seven in a year, and the year's not over yet. Yeah.

I mean, Minecraft obviously smash sensation. Sinners, genuine, like, zeitgeist animating experience. F1, I come at it through the eyes of an F1 fan. And so it's been kind of incredible to watch, much like, you know, multiple years ago during COVID, the Drive to Survive, boom, just this like not only fever pitch around, hey, you got to see this like on the biggest screen, loudest speakers, but also like maybe now I'll like fall in love with a new sport because I went to see this movie for two hours. This is a great thing. And obviously we've talked about Superman for many, many hours on this podcast and many ringer podcasts. I have not seen weapons yet because I'm scared. But it's clear to me that people love the movie and that it is an experience and something that feels like essential right now. So that's that's wild. So when you look ahead to the, like you said, it's a quiet rest of the year, but there's a ton on the slate for 2026. Do you not have the confidence that that 26 slate featuring, I mean, you know, we have like a new Dune movie coming at the end of next year. We have Supergirl, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

You don't think we're going to be saying at the end of next year or even like midway through next year. WV still killing it. You think we're going to be saying glad I cashed out. Yeah, I'm not saying that they're going to fall off a cliff, that there's going to be a collapse. I'm just saying that the fundamentals, you know, we got to study the underlying numbers here. If they were at the point of heads are about to roll five months ago and now riding high, best run ever, maybe they settle somewhere in the middle. Maybe there's a medium place there. And so that's why I'm selling just because we're at the peak Warner Brothers frenzy right now. They're not done.

I mean, next month they have the conjuring last rights and one battle after another, PTA. I mean. Fenrock, Sean Fennessee, huge, huge moment. Leo, obviously. Plus Mortal Kombat, too, in October. Two of those are distribution deals, not productions, but still. and it's already been a record year for horror, I guess, much to your dismay. Although sinners, not that scary.

I was relieved to find that I was not terrified during that movie. Yeah, I was able to hang. Yeah. But horror movies have like a 15% share at the box office this year, which is also a record, I think. So I could have sold horror also, but that's been a big part of this. And so I assume that this run is going to end, like this streak will be snapped. I don't know if the conjuring has that juice, maybe, like last.

rights, there won't be any additional rights. So if you want to see some rights, you've got to get out there. So maybe they could extend this streak. I don't know, like, PTA's track record. If that movie opened at $40 million, I think that would be a record for any PTA movie domestically in its entire run. Right. So, you know, more of a critical darling.

Yeah, that's going to be an, yeah, like Oscar season, more so in box office season. Unless the power of Leo can propel that to the top. Maybe this streak ends. But, yeah, next year, you have, yeah, what's the year? You have Cat and a Hat, the mummy. I think what we can safely say is that Wuthering Heights, whether it is good or not, will be a thing on the Internet. That feels like a lot to me. Yeah.

And then bringing back the Monsterverse. Yeah. Supergirl. Clayface. Coyote versus Acme, of course, actually coming out belatedly. Genuinely, a huge, a huge movie and media story, truly. Yeah. In theory, in theory, if it doesn't slip from that mid-December date. So, yeah.

You're listing these movies, and I'm feeling a hold more than a sell. It does feel like more like a hold. It's true. I'm trying to book the trends. You got the big data brain on you. I don't. You're looking at the trend lines. You're looking at the stats.

You're looking at the number. You're looking at the precedent, the pattern, the history. And I'm just like, F1 was fun. So I think people should probably listen to you, not me. And yet, I look forward to seeing all of these movies and talking about them. Yeah, because the reason for optimism is that it seems like they've put the right people in place. I mean, you have to hand it, I guess, to Zaslavs for, you know, putting a second astonishing sentence that you have uttered. Because he seems to have, like, actually put money into the right

creatives and Cougler and PTA and all these people, you know, like James Gunn and Peter Saffron are in charge of the DCU, Pam and Mike, as they are commonly called, you know, and they're putting money into originals, too, which is another heartening thing here, not that we don't ride for sequels sometimes, but only five movies this year with original screenplays. So not adaptations, no preexisting source material, have led the box office even for one weekend this year. And Warner Brothers produced three of them. So they're taking risks. They're placing bets. Those bets have paid off. And now I'm getting out while the getting is good. Honestly, it's a great case. You have made a great case.

Yeah. Plus the gaming division is a disaster. So that's, That's a whole other story. That's maybe coloring your overall mood then a little bit. Well, listen, when you consume this entire podcast, you have possibly the treat of your life waiting for you, which is Sean Fantasy saying that he's buying video game movie adaptations and intends to start playing games. He declared on this podcast that he would be playing Eldon Ring and Dead Stranding. Come on button mash. Exactly. Get on his calendar.

Now he's a busy man. All right. I'm buying the Sean Fantasy gamer era. There you go. So are we all, I think. Ben, wonderful to see you as always, buddy. Thank you for swinging by. My pleasure.

Joining me now, making her house of our debut. Mere weeks ago, I got to join her on her podcast, the Ringer F1 show, and we marveled at the fact that despite having worked together for a decade. About that. We had never podcasted together until. that very moment. It took the forces of Brad Pitt in the F-1 movie,

Lewis Hamilton, a remarkable total wolf cameo to bring us together with the podcast at last. And now that I got a taste, I can't look without it. So Meg, had to have you join for the inaugural House of our Stockwatch. It is Megan Schuster. She is here to

buy, sell, or hold anything in the nerdverse, anything genre-centric or adjacent. Megan, tell the bad babies. What are you buying, selling, or holding, and why? Mal, I'm honored to be here, and I am honored to tell you that I am selling the book, Brimstone, a forthcoming novel by Callie Hart. It is the second book in the Fay and Alchemy series. This, if you're not familiar with the series title, it is the series that brought you

Quicksilver, a somehow number one New York Times bestselling book. The latest in a romantic genre that as you and I both know and are extremely familiar with is so popular at the moment. I think we both definitely have our favorites. We both have definitely have thoughts on all of these books. But I am selling Brimstone, namely because I am selling Quicksilver. I read this in a fugue state over the last few days. And so just the gist of it, it's essentially something of a romance version of The Alchemist, which yes, is as strange as it sounds. At a couple of points, the female main character is literally referred to as the alchemist. Okay.

So it's not subtle, the parallel. It's incredibly heavy-handed. Okay. The book is very popular and as resistant as I am to yuck other people's yums, especially as it relates to books. Yeah. Well, and especially as it relates to romantasy, I mean. Exactly.

I'm basically here to tell you, don't let the TikToks fool you. Don't assume that just because it was a bestseller, it's great. don't let people tell you first and foremost that King Fisher, who is the love interest in this book, is anywhere close to the Zayden Ryerson-Ryesan level of book boyfriends. It's simply not true. He's fine, but like why are we trying to put him on the Mount Rushmore of book boyfriends? I don't understand it. If you're listening to this and you loved Quicksilver, like more power to you, that's fine. I'm just here to say that I find it wild that this book is as popular as it is. And if you are like me and had it on your list for a long time, just be prepared to draw your own conclusions is what I would advise.

Yeah. Okay. Meg, you came in hot. I love it. This has been a podcast full of buys. I would say in a way that is frankly, slightly uncommon with the ringerverse big pick watch crew. It's been like a lot of here's what I'm excited about. Here's what I love. we needed some of this energy today. Good.

I'm glad to be here to provide it. Yeah, we needed someone to pump the brakes. Here you are. I think too, and this I will say, it's hard not to compare Quicksilver to the fourth wings and the accitars of the world because they're all such kind of heavy hitters in this romantician genre. Also because they all are having adaptations discussed or rights being purchased by these massive studios. So Netflix bought the rights to Quicksilver, I believe, in December of last year. Amazon has bought the rights to fourth wing.

Hulu for a while was attached to the Akatar universe. It seems like that has left or has been scrapped generally. But I would imagine once those rights kind of wear out, Sarah J. Mass will be shopping it elsewhere. So that part of it I'm buying. Like I love this arms race in the Romantici television universe. And I, if they do end up making a Quicksilver television show, I'll probably watch. But that part of it, I'm buying the series itself I'm selling.

Okay, this is fascinating. So I have not read Brimstone. I have not engaged with the Quicksilver text at all. You have been one of my primary companions in the early days of my Romanticy journey. I mentioned this a little bit on the Romantic C pod that Joe and I did, but like, you're one of the first people I text when I finish a book. What I mean a new character? Yeah, it's a whole honored. I've been sharing this with you.

And so I mean, in all respects, you know, whether over the years we've been talking about F1 or football or whatever the case maybe. I've always valued, dare I say, cherished your opinion. You're a person of taste and character. But I put even more stock behind your Romanticie opinions because I know that this is something that you consider sacred and profound. And so I have to say that I will now be moving this down my list as a result of this or when I get to it at long last, which I still intend to at some point. I will have this in mind. I like the way that you're wrapping this, though, inside of the Romantici adaptation arms race. Because, you know, one thing that obviously we chat about in this pot a lot in general is that, like, sometimes, I mean, often, Joe, or I will be the like, that wasn't in the book person.

And, you know, we often are coming out from that perspective. But sometimes, of course, an adaptation can be better than the source text. It can happen. It's happened. It's happened before it could happen again. So it doesn't necessarily mean that this can't find its way, this universe can't find its way to something successful on screen. And obviously part of what is exciting about the romanticcy boom in general is just the level of obsession and enthusiasm, core ringer totems there, among the fans. So when you're potentially expanding a universe and putting it in front of more people, the idea that so many people are going to be excited to make that journey in the first place is just such a powerful start. point. To your point about like romanticcy boyfriends and, you know, this, this dude can't hold a candle to Zayden and recent, to that I say this. As you know, as the listeners know, I'm still in the early days of my romantasy journey, frankly having a blast. But early days still, and so I can't claim to have like such a sweeping wide view of the full constellation. And yet,

to that I would say, well, like, yeah, no, sure. Shit. How could they? I mean, that's like saying, I don't know, Adley Ruchman is not Babe Ruth. Right. It's like, yeah. I mean, Risen and Zayden are god tear. God tear, Meg. And I think what I've found so frustrating with the King Fisher journey is that he has many of the same exact qualities as both of those other men. So it's the same exact archetype. He wields shadows. He is. covered in tattoos. He has dark hair. He's a surly individual. He is somehow able to speak. Let me say, you have my attention. He is somehow able to speak into the mind of his female love interest. He is

over a thousand years old. You know, it's like, check, check, check, check. So when you are putting it out there in that way, I'm like, of course the national information is to compare. Yeah. Is to compare. And it's just not the same. So I'm not saying he's bad. I just don't understand the, like, it's inviting. It's inviting the comparison to you that. The is not measuring up. No. How, like, how steamy are we talking?

It's pretty steamy. Pretty steamy. I would put it, I would put it similar to fourth wing in team level. Yeah. Oh, wow. Okay, I'm moving it back up the list. I respect yourself, but I'm moving it back up the list. From that perspective, it's a buy, yes.

Okay. But I think, I think, like, you and I commit these books with very, like, editor brains. Yes, it's true. When they're like incredible, like when they have plot holes and, you know, strange like additions to it and when things don't make sense, I think like I get quite frustrated. And that's what I found myself struggling with with this particular book. Fair. Fair. Okay. Megan, you've given us a lot to think about. I appreciate you joining House of our. We're definitely going to have you back at some point to continue talking romanticcy. Obviously, it's something that we, we have a desire to engage with more of the bad babies are.

the ravenous for it. Literally, literally anytime I am at your guys' disposal. Honored to be here. Everybody in the meantime, until Meg makes her House of Our Return, check out the Ringer F1 show. Meg is killing it over there. Meg and Spanors are an absolute must listen after every Grand Prix. If you have not begun your F1 journey yet,

now is the time. Now is the time. All right, Meg. Thank you. You're the best. Thanks, Mal. Folks. Joe Me a dinner on us here. What's going on? This is a thrill. Happy to be here.

A joy of delight. Thank you for participating in the inaugural house of our Stockwatch. You can buy, sell, or hold anything in the nerdverse other than the couple things that you first suggested that I said, someone else has picked us. This is what I get for being late on the email thread. That's on me. That's on me. You can pick anything you want. What are you buying, selling, or holding?

Why? So I'm holding. Oh. And I am choosing to hold my, the Mandalorian and Grogu stock. Okay. Tell me why. Why isn't this a buy? But why isn't it a sell?

Why a hold? So it's not a sell because. It's Grogo. How could you ever sell anything with Grogo? I can see the vision, right? I can see the vision. And it's not a buy because we've seen season three of the Mandalorian, you know? Okay.

Okay. So how much of the holding is about? the prior experience inside of the Mandoverse. And how much of it, if it all, is like we just watch one of the best seasons of television ever, Andor season two, and a question of what future Star Wars installments can measure up? Like, are you grading everything on an Andor curve or is that not a factor? No, Andor is not a factor. Endor is its own separate universe. So if we judge everything by Andor, then everything looks dark and bleak and we won't be able to have fun.

I'm with you. I'm with you. The lesson of Andor is everybody should do this. their own thing and do something different and try to like make something that is completely fully realized through that specific creative vision. Exactly. Not that everybody should try to make Andor. So I'm glad that we're going back to the Groguverse.

And that's why I'm holding because when I think about it, I know season three was whack. I know Booba fit was kind of really, really whack. But remember those two episodes in there that focused on the Mandalorian and Grogo? And those are the best two episodes of the series. And then you can do you. going back to season one, special television. Season two, amazing. Amazing.

The finale is season two. I was in tears. Same. I feel like we can still get there with Star Wars. Right? Now, again, again, the claw on the cheek. Part of the reason,

you can't make me call on the cheek. No, can't do. We can't do. Part of the reason why, again, it's a hold because, you know, Star Wars movies have kind of been in the gutter for a minute. Well, in order to be in the gutter, they have to exist.

Right, but I don't know. We haven't had a Star Wars movie in a million years. The last Star Wars movie was in 2019. We are speaking right now in 2025. Right. What was that last movie? I do not recall the film.

I mean, I think, hold on. I'm putting it together. Have you heard that somehow, how Palpatine returned somehow? You know what I mean? And so, it's been more than half a decade since Rise of Skywalker. It's been a minute. And that was legitimately one of the worst moving going experiences I've ever had in my life. And so while I think, again, Star Wars on TV has.

has been, you know, it's had its ups, high highs, and some low lows. I think that the Mandalorian and Grogu, if Dave Faloni and John Favro walk in like they did for the first two seasons of the Mandalorian, we could be in for something special. Do you think that making the Mandalorian and Grogu movie is the right choice, or would you prefer that we got season four? Because, of course, this is ultimately happening in place of, ahead of, possibly in place of, possibly in place of season four. So we're getting this movie in May of 2026, which is just around the corner.

Every day now, basically, there's new news about Star Wars Starfighter. Like, we're only a few days removed from learning that Matt Smith was going to be playing the villain, et cetera. You know, Gosling coming to Star Wars, the Ashon Levy movie. There's a lot of hype around that. So on the one hand, you have like this dearth of Star Wars movies that's influencing the vibe. but then you have the prospect of multiple good Star Wars movies in like a short burst of time,

which is thrilling to think about. Are you influenced it all by the fact that this is coming to us in the shape of a movie instead of a television show? Does that increase your confidence in it, given how season three went? Does that diminish your confidence? Does it feel like, okay, we need to like, we got to wrap this up and move on?

Oh, I hope it's not the ending, right? That would be really sad. I feel like that's not what I would want from a man, on Gourable movie. I think obviously I would enjoy a season four of the show. But if they have it, like, we got to continue this universe. And it's been a minute for Star Wars to be in theaters. And this has been our most popular property since 2020.

Let's put in the movies. I get it. I understand. Everybody's trying to make some money. I'm with it. On the, like, releasing information, we know this. Dave Filoni is spoiler allergic. We were there for Star Wars Celebration.

And he didn't even want to mention anybody. There are people like backstage that were going to be announced that he was afraid to talk about. He does not like talking about his projects before they are out in the world. And so the lack of information while frustrating, I completely understand because that's how he moves. Ultimately, as long as I can get my little baby Grogu back on screen, whether it's on TV or film, I'm with it. Grogu on the big screen, I have no notes. Zeb coming to a Star Wars movie. thrill of my life.

Let me ask you this. This is the most important thing that I can throw your way today. What will the Grogu popcorn bucket be? And will you feel morally conflicted? On the one hand, a few things bring us as much joy as new Grogu merch. Right.

On the other hand, do I want to be reaching into any sort of like Grogu cavity to retrieve food stuff? I don't. I don't think it's going to be that. I think they have better, you know, scientists working on it right now. Our best and brightest.

are working on the Grogu popcorn bucket. And I got it. It's going to be his little bass in it. Yeah. Oh, that. Yeah. Okay. And you can open it.

I like that. And little Grogu is going to be in there. You have to like pick the popcorn with Grogu. A popcorn bucket that's like the little egg carriage. I think there's a way using creative materials to do the best gar, like the chain mail. Oh. The shirt. I mean, we're missing like.

Sort of like little bag. Obviously they're going to give us the Mando helmet. The Mastcar. Amanda helmet is going to be a best. For sure. Grogu holding. Instead of us, I don't want to reach into like Grogu's head. That would be very upset.

That's gross. Yeah. It's not. No, no, no. But think about Grogu sipping his soup. Mm. What if Grogu is holding a vessel from which we can eat popcorn? So here's the thing.

It's a small child. Well, he's 50. Well, he's, but he's small. And by all accounts, a baby. They called him a baby for three years until we found out he has a name and he's old as hell, right? But like holding like a little, that would be sweet or maybe like a drink, little, little drink to drink your little, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, you know, just something a little small. I have a question for you. Yeah.

Yeah. You mentioned Zeb. Yes. Are you at all worried that like, we're doing like, because we thought that Osoka was basically Rebels, you know, season five, which, you know, kind of a little bit, little bit. Ish, yeah. You think, you know, we show up to Madlore and Grogu and it's Sabine, it's Zeb, as we're like, yo, we got to find the folks that we lost at the end of Asoka. And then that rolls us back into Asoka season two.

I mean, obviously part of the initial positioning of like the Faloni movie was going to be this event that we built toward inside of this moment in the timeline, right? The slice of the canon timeline, the Mandoverse. Thrawn. So yeah, I think we should expect. I will certainly not be surprised by and I think on some level we should expect connective tissue to other properties inside of the timeline. So it's very difficult to believe that that wouldn't happen in any way. However, I think that

balance is key and something that feels very firmly rooted in a Dindjaran Grogu adventure setting out where we left on season three this quest of discovery, this journey of discovery. I mean, Jeremy Allen White is here playing Jabba's son, stinky back in our lives. For the animation fans, like,

Stinky on the big screen, it's just a buff boy. It feels right. Do you think it's going to be swall? It's going to be like buff, just like built. Like, yeah, man. I mean, that's not, that would be wrong. No, you know what I'm saying? He gets saved by a Jedi out of young age, just kind of like,

Yo, I want to be a Jedi, but I, you know, but anybody can get the Force. That's what I thought us. That anybody, you, me, everybody back there, you listening, you watching, you have access to the Force. If you focus enough and if they write you the right way, you can also take on the Force. Yes. So what's wrong with Stinky showing up? Oh, no, I'm scared.

What's up? And then Stinky's like, boom, Dinjarn, I got you. I got a lightsaber and I'm force pushing everybody away because Asoka saved me that one time back in that one movie that everybody loved, I imagine. Could happen, I think probably not. I think they're probably going in a different direction. Maybe we'll get some interesting mocap behind the scenes imagery. We'll find out.

But I hope the movie's great. I think it would be a real jolt in the arm and a real, like, energizing experience for Star Wars fans, not only who love Grogo and Dinn and the Mandalorian universe, but who love what it feels like when there's a good Star Wars movie in our lives, just the prospect of that. Until the moment that we know that's not what happened, And I will look forward to the possibility of that happening. And guess what?

I think it's a good hold. It doesn't matter if it's good or not. If it doesn't make money, then it's a failure. So that's how we think about movies these days. So, you know what I mean? Not here. Not in the House of Art. God forbid you have a good movie that you enjoy.

Like, wow, this is great. It's fantastic. I love it. And then everybody's like, actually, it only made $3. It's a crap. Everything you love is crap. I hope you die in a forest. It's tough.

You can't win. You'll never hear that from me. And that's why I love it. That's why I love it here. Joey. Thank you for swinging by. I'm happy to be here. Joining us now, the only person who took the prompt seriously enough to bring a prop.

It's Steve Allman. You'll be revealing that prop in mere moments. Welcome to the inaugural House of Our Stockwatch. Thank you for joining me today. Please let the bad babies know what your selection is to buy, sell, or hold. What are you going with? I think my easiest bet if I were to be on the mad money set to hit the big red button and bring out whatever prop comedy that I would likely be using.

This sounds like a scenario you've thought of before. Several times. Several times. I do have many rolled up, you know, dry pressed shirts that I would be sweating through. And I would be buying stock. Tell me. In what? In the great character actor known as Paul Walter Houser.

AKA, you might have seen him in a one fantastic four first steps as mole. man. Blinkin, you missed him because he's only there for about three minutes, but... Start of the show. Electrifying on screen. I don't think that we're soon to forget him. But if I could actually put you on some game to know that he's been making a hell of a here for himself so far, and he's only going up from here. Okay. An amazing prospect. This year alone. Tell me. Let's just run through his 20-20th for IMDB for starters. Okay. Inside Out 2. The Voice of Embarrassment. it. It's fantastic. Recently released, although shot in 2024,

luckiest man in America, he stars in this film about the man who basically set the world of game shows on fire in the 1970s with the Pressure Luck scandal. An amazing movie. Raymond and Cobra Kai, if anybody's familiar. Obviously, moleman in Fantastic Four. Our homie in The Naked Gun as well,

starring right around alongside Liam Neeson, if I were to go into a movie star factory and say generate a man who is destined to get a best supporting actor nomination in the next five years, it would spit out Paul Walter Houser. He's funny. He's clearly got dramatic shops as well. I think he's got nowhere to go but up. Are you familiar with Paul Walter Houser? Of course I am. Of course I am. I'm a, on the record,

it's Ringer Podcast Network Canon that I thought he earned a spinoff with his performance in Fantastic Four First Steps. That was genuinely sensational. I love the like the, not just the levity, the humor, but like the specificity. And I love the ability in basically no screen time to hint at history. It was great. It's very memorable.

I could talk about his scene in Fantastic Four for a genuine hour because it feels like it's a not only plucked out of a different movie, but he elevated everybody else in the room with him, seemingly. Everybody's on a different clip when he's in the room. He's just a charisma bomb that everybody sort of gravitates around. And actually starting to pay attention to him, I'm like, this guy's got an amazing spark. I can't really deny him.

And he's amazing in the naked gun. He is the best joke in the entire movie. I haven't seen that movie yet. Okay, well, if I can spoil only one joke. And it's a perfectly... Okay. You're going to spoil what you just said was the best joke in the movie? It's my favorite.

I'm not going to say it's the best. All right, tell me. Well, Liam Neeson, with a shrug and his perfect Irish grumble, says you can't fight City Hall. And Paul Walter Houser just says, you cannot. It's a building. That's all you need. I give you his Oscar. That is funny.

That's funny. Your joy right now is palpable. You are so enthused about making this selection about buying Paul Walter Houser stock. that you have selected this as you're opening to Stockwatch, even though it was not what you were supposed to be picking. Tell us what you actually came here today to pick. You've done a house of our smuggle. Well, I have had a house far smuggle because along with my buy for Paul Walter Hauser,

I can give you something that you can actually buy on comic newsstands. Tell us. Yeah. And that is Robert Kirkman's Invincible Universe, Battlebeast. This is a comic book run that was released in April of this year. It's with amazing artwork again by Ryan Otley Who has been the artist on Invincible for all of these years And they're picking the page back up back again

This is kind of a blast If you remember Battle Beast from the Invincible run They have brief run-ins with each other He's a no-nonsense and absolutely Rage-filled killing machine And this kind of picks up right from their first encounter And it makes a little adventure about how Battle Beast is a bit of a tortured soul about like wanting to love the urge of combat and wishes to kind of die.

And the only way that he can do so in an honorable way is to die by combat. Sure, of course. And he seeks out the most powerful beings in the universe to kill him. You got to find a viltramite. And it doesn't exactly make a, you know, a happy go lucky main protagonist. But he does encounter a couple of characters along the way that accompany him that I won't spoil here. Okay. That...

The way you spoiled naked gun for me? Yes, but they don't have as many city hall jokes in this one. But this is really, really fun. It's got the sharp witty writing that Kirtman is known for and amazing artwork. And it's something that's easy and entry level. It's kind of surprising how easy to onboard yourself to the Invisible Universe is, and it's no better than when you have an issue one of something that is just from this universe and you can jump right in. Okay, so this was...

You've anticipated my next question. I'm excited. I am going to check this out. I'm looking forward to checking it out. If people have not read the prior Invincible Comics, would you recommend that they consume those first? Or is this a... Can you just start here? If you're interested in the world. You absolutely can start here because obviously the Invincible Canon now is a massive tone full of amazing characters and wonderful things that I would recommend to anybody. Yes. But if you kind of want something that's easy to onboard and not to know that you have like a massive 7,000 page volume to, volume to do.

Which is a joy to work through, but it's like a heavy omnibus project. Right, but if you have something that's like relatively new and now ongoing. So you just dip in here and begin your journey here. Are you anticipating that this is going to be inevitably adapted on the screen one day? And what's the scope of this project going to be?

Like, is this going to be more in the mold of, if it makes its way to the screen, the Adam Eve standalone experience? Or is this going to be... not just a special, but an entire new series, a spinoff? Like, how much material are we looking at here? I think the ceiling's very high for the Invincible IP, really, right now, because along with that, we also have a live action project coming from the Seth Rogen

industrial complex as well as the ongoing animated series. I think that at minimum, it almost demands an animated special a la Adam and Eve, because Adam Eve also has her own comics run. Yeah. That is quite long in the tooth as well. and we all love that as well. I see this going just as far. Okay.

And I think that it can easily be something that's along your favorites. Okay. So we have, to sum up, a new comic to check out and an entire filmography to explore. No way to go but up for both of these. It's an easiest buy ever. The double buy. I will say it's been a buy heavy pod today. There's a lot of enthusiasm among the group, which is fun.

But the double buy. This is... Now, I haven't listened to the pod yet, but has Van sold his Pedro stock yet? I'm not going to spoil what Van picked, but I will say that there was... Van did not sell. He did not sell.

I won't say what he did, but he did not sell. You'll have to tune in to find out. Oh, boy. Sorry to disappoint, but yes. Thank you, Steve. Thank you, Mal. Folks, it's the honor of my life. my career and my life

to be here with my dear friend Kate Hallowell Welcome to the House of Our I have to say it's an astonishment I think to you and to me both And probably to anyone else In our shared experience in life Who knows that we spend the bulk of our time

Talking about Leapace And Salt and Straw's Lucky Charmed Serial ice cream That we're not here to talk about either of those things today Shocking But you're welcome to bring them up at any point as I have. I assume that they would make it into the first 10 minutes this podcast no matter what.

It's the goal of every pod, frankly. I assume so. To mention Lee Pace as quickly as we can. Thank you for joining the inaugural House of Our Stockwatch. You have the opportunity to buy, sell, or hold anything in the nerdverse that you think feels important right now, that tells you or us something about where we've been so far this year, where we might be heading the rest of the year and in the years to come. What feels important to you in genredom and are you investing in it?

Are you looking to pull your investment away? Or do you need a little more time to figure out how you feel? First of all, thank you so much for having me and including me in this exercise. Happy to be here. I think on brand am inspired by K-pop Demon Hunters. Okay. You're the first podcast to ask me to talk about this movie, which is how I really know that I'm retired now. I was going to, frankly, that's a scandal. That's a scandal that you have not been asked.

I'm so retired. You were the first person I texted, as you know, right after I watched it. And I appreciate that. You were the first person I texted. And I like, I would have assumed that you were the first person everybody at the ringer texted to discuss this wonderful film. I did get a couple texts. But this is my first podcast invite. Happy to, happy to be here and discuss. Several things in this movie that I think I could have invested in or continue to invest. as I am invested in K-pop content in the West in general. Yes. But I've decided really because I think you and I share a passion within this movie. Yes.

And that is that I think both of us are going to continue to hold our stock in including cute animals in a movie just to sell plushies and to make you and I happy. I am obsessed with animals. I'm obsessed with magical creatures. I'm obsessed with merch. And so no matter how saturated the market is at a given moment, and let me be clear, I don't understand how the stock market works, despite the amesting this podcast. I don't understand how to make a sound investment. And I don't suspect that at 38 years old, those things will be changing in my life.

But I am prepared to say to you today that I am always ready to buy more. I would be buying. So tell me why you're holding. Why is this not for you like I want to continue to invest? and soak it up? Is it because it feels like, okay, everybody's on this corner? I think there's some backlash to the unnecessary cute animal sidekick. I feel like, for example. Not from people I'm spending time with or want to spend time with it.

Not in my world. Frankly. For example, Superman, which I haven't seen. But I did see the super dog discourse. And people are like, why is there a dog? Okay. And let me just say that I hope those people are prepared to enjoy a wonderful evening when crypto accepts his awesome.

Exactly. Exactly. And I just, you and I feel the same way. We're like, always happy to see a little guy, you know, just a little animal. And in K-pop demon hunters, we got not one but two. That's right. Were they necessary to the plot? Absolutely not. However, I think they were. One, brought a lot of charm. Two, sold a lot of plushies. And three, I genuinely think that they represent a lot of things about Korean culture that the average person maybe doesn't know. Yes, for sure. Which let me run through perhaps quickly. We have two characters in this movie. One, and these are their names. Derpy.

This was not included in the movie, but it was told to us by the director afterwards. The tiger's name is Derpy. I have zero notes. I knew that you would know that. Scrolling the Netflix merch shop, ordering your plushy of Derpy, the Tiger. And Sussie the Bird. He's a magpie. Yep.

And he has a little hat. And I just, first of all, a little guy should always have a little hat. So thrilled with that. They are inspired by. Um, classic Korean folk paintings and myths, which often include a tiger and a magpie. The tiger is usually a little dumb. The magpie tricks the tiger in some way in this movie, for example, by stealing the hat. Um, so I love that we get that little, that little bit of like authentic Korean culture,

even though it's just like, here's a little pair, a little duo. The tiger wants to just knock over the flower pot every two seconds, which I loved, by the way. Um, and yeah, Tiger, national animal of, Korea, magpie, national bird of Korea. So I think it represents a lot of what is so wonderful about K-pop demon hunters, where it's like, okay, it's a fun movie, it's flashy, it's got a great soundtrack, it's 13-year-olds everywhere love it. However, it also is very genuine.

38-year-olds everywhere I love it. Yeah, exactly, 30-year-olds. It really is, you can tell that they did their homework on, they have the people who know the Korean culture, K-pop culture, the fan stuff was so accurate, the songs and the way that they sort of. Bangers. Bangers. Bangers.

Bangers. That was another thing that I was considering. I think, what was I going to buy stock in? Was not having the actors do their own singing? Leaving it to the professionals. That's another thing that this movie did right. Have the singers and the songwriters record the songs. The quality of the songs is breathtaking.

Yes. Like that's why it's on top of the charts. That's why it's, you know. And I think, I also, speaking of 13-year-olds, like, this is the thing. thing. I have little cousins that I've been trying to get into K-pop for years. Okay. Okay. And like, this is the thing that has done it. Like they were texting me like, I love the Saja boys. Like, which K-pop groups are like them? Or like, who's your bias and hunt tricks? Mera. Oh, yeah. And I just, you know, it's just like is, I think that it's the perfect mix of like

authenticity, people who know their shit. And then also just like being accessible for people who don't know. And I genuinely think that Derpy and Sussie are part of that. Whether or not they were essential to the plot, whether or not people out there are like, oh, unnecessary animal sidekicks. Okay. Yeah. I love them. So you're all in on derpy, all in on sassy. You're measuring and calibrating your reaction based on the overall appetite in the market.

And on maybe when I'm gleaning a little bit here is this is done so well. Right. Can we trust everybody to do it this well? Are we worried at all about people taking the wrong lesson? from the undeniable might and force of these two instant icons and saying, well, my movie needs to have like eight versions of this.

Now, here's the thing. If I'm being honest with you, with myself, with the back. I would be my stock. This is what I'm saying. It actually doesn't matter to me. It doesn't matter whether they're important to the point. I was going to, you know, my ultimate example of this

is the porgs in Star Wars. I love a port. We're like, the porgs were like released before the movie and came out. It was like, there's this new cute animal. Look, here's a plushy. Ever since then, my Disney Plus icon, it's been a porg. And I don't, I don't care if they weren't really a part of the movie. Have you ever worked through your trauma of seeing a porg roasted over an open flame?

That was fucked up that happened. Thanks for reminding me about that thing that I've tried to repress in my brain forever. I'm so sorry. I'm sorry. Genuinely. Okay, listen, I thought that K-pop demon hunters ruled. I think about derpy often. I think about derpy.

Derpy in particular. I mean, both wonderful. This is a little bit like, we have a cat. bias on this podcast. Yeah, I was going to say I mean, we have to acknowledge it. What are we going to do? Like, not say that we love the sweet blue tiger who magically travels

through portals. Like, come on. Come on. We can only be who we are. Who are we? They were both wonderful, very memorable. I now, once I, this is interesting, once I say this on the podcast, he will hear it and thus it could become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

But, I'll say it anyway, I feel pretty confident that a Derpy plush is on Adams list of birthday were Hanukkah gifts for me. I really hope that that is true. I will be sending links to my partner as well. And I will say they're not all created equal. I've been doing my research. He has such an expressive face.

Some of them, a little freaky. But it's better in motion than it is frozen. But it's hard to nail the eyes. And also with Derpy, it's not just the eyes. It's like so much of it is in the smile. you know, the mouth, the particular just essence and aura. Very special.

Kate, thank you not only for talking about these beautiful magical creatures with me, but through the process of doing that for celebrating K-pop demon hunters on the pod. It feels like we couldn't possibly do a stockwatch about where we are this year in nerd culture and not talk about K-pop demon hunters that actually wouldn't really make sense to do. So thank you for joining me today. Not to talk about Lee Pace's abs and foundation as I thought we might. Another day. Another day.

Next best thing. I mean, they're always there. They're eternal. I quite agree. Thanks, buddy. Thanks. Bad babies. For months, I've heard a refrain.

A refrain in the Instagram comments. A refrain in the YouTube comments. A refrain just frankly in the air. And it was bring Jody back on the fucking podcast. What are you doing? And so she is here. Jody Walker. Welcome to the inaugural House of Our Stockwatch. Your background is astonishing. This is gorgeous. Will you actually be taking us out into the woods for your pick? Could be. And who knows what might happen out there, Mallory. Who knows? Out into the wilderness. Jody, I have given you the task of selecting anything in the nerd verse to buy, sell, or hold. You can pick anything that you would like basically to reflect this moment in genre storytelling, to reflect this moment in the state of your heart, to reflect this moment in it's been a few months since we got to talk about Shauna together.

You can really go any way that you would like with it. Very few people who have joined me today, including yours truly, me, understand how stocks work or how to actually think about the buy, hold, sell of it all. And so really you can do whatever the fuck you want. That's what I'm here to tell you right now. What do you buy and sell in or holding? Tell us. Well, and you have brought me on for my stock knowledge, which you are well aware of.

It's why I became a journalist. It's why I became a blogger and a podcaster. It's because of how good I am with money and stocks. So here I am fully understanding the prompt. But for me, I would say possibly differently for some of the other folks you're chatting with, is I have a little bit more limited access to genredom. And so what I've done is kind of a house of our classic. And what some of your listeners may not know is also a classic over on We're Obsessed. It's sort of something I like to do.

Mispronouncing the word lawyer? Oh, I didn't think that you were going to bring up my gorgeous, very occasional southern accent over here. It's been a bit of an attack on regional dialects in the ring reverse. Check out the podcast. We're obsessed with Jody and Nora. It's wonderful. But in addition to checking out the podcast, treat yourself if you have not yet to the Instagram content, where within the span of 10 seconds, you will understand what we are talking about.

now and also I think I understand something crucial about the shared experience. Follow. We're obsessed. Listen to We're obsessed. And, you know, in addition to being really good at stocks, I practice the law. Oh, no, I don't. I practice the law, which is why I say lawyer. Not lawyer. This also gets into my choice, which is that I do tend to break the rules a little bit in order to practice maximalism, to just talk about everything that I want to talk about. And so I'm not buying. I'm not selling. I am holding this year on survival stories.

And by that, I of course mean two of my favorite parts of nerd genre, yellow jackets and the last of us. Tell me why. Tell me why. Well, I cannot in good conscience buy on yellow jackets. No, I can't. You say that. And yet, when we gathered, when we joined forces to talk about one episode, we talked for two hours and 45 minutes about that episode. And let me tell you something, we could have done an extra two hours and 45 minutes.

Oh, sure, could have. And if I'd been around for that finale, which is part of what brings me here, I could have gone for half a day. I am holding. Basically because I'm holding space and holding out hope. And I do think that that's how stocks work. That's it. Yes, that's exactly it. It's not about understanding really anything about money or the market or the trend lines or having, you know, the billion's heads out there will know a dollar bill stern in your life to whisper, I am not uncertain.

Just about vibes. That's how it's about, right? It's about vibes. And the vibes that I'm holding space for are for these two shows to return to form. I don't think that I would be delivering the news here to say, or maybe I am. I actually, it's always fun to come on House of Ar and sort of like learn what people who actually know what they're talking about in this situation are saying. what I was hearing on the streets during the last season of The Last of Us

and the last season of Yellow Jackets, which are a little different but are both survivalist stories. The thing that's bringing us here together today. They weren't everyone's favorite. Everyone wasn't thrilled with the direction. Devisive, certainly. A little for sure.

Divisive. Yeah. Yeah. I'm feeling hopeful and holdful for two reasons. Tell me. Holtful. I couldn't. have purchased more stock in Caitlin Deaver.

I am the co-president with Mallory Rubin of the Caitlin Deaver fan club. And Joanna Robinson. And Joanna Robinson. She would want us to say, and Joanna Robinson. It's a power trio here. Caitlin, Mal and Joanna, three of the best women I personally know and love. I would follow Caitlin Deaver to the ends of the earth. I followed Caitlin Dever just recently to a really poorly named show called Apple Cider Vinegar,

which was about a scammer, one of my favorite topics. Was it a great show? No. Was Caitlin Dever giving an Oscar-worthy performance? Always. Of course she was. Of course. That's all she does.

Yeah, not capable of anything less. Yeah. She's so, so good. And so I know that the last season of The Last of Us was a little uneven. I don't, I don't play the game so I can only. go from what I know. I would say that I try to avoid micro-spoilers for the last of us.

There's no avoiding macro-spoilers. You know, you're going to find out some plot points. And so what I know for season three is that I will be in the incredibly capable hands of Caitlin Deaver. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, what better places there to be?

I love a problematic woman, which feels like you said it our way. Yeah. With Abby? already and in season three? Yes. So I'm just holding on. Does that seem reasonable?

Have I made a good choice? I think I support you fully. I think season three is going to be amazing. I was higher on season two than some of the folks who you were alluding to. But I think that spending season three in that stretch of the game story and with Abby is going to be a real highlight. And I think you're right, not only to say that the time with Deaver

will be time, of course, well spent, but that it is likely to bring people back into a shared experience, which obviously was one of the really amazing things about, you know, has been one of the amazing things about Last of Us that's highest. Highest, high is like, this is a zeitgeist animating force.

And that is wonderful. Yellowjack, it's a show that we love, and have a, you know, frankly, like an obsession with. I think it's fair to say has not been a zeitgeist animating four since season one. And yet, they can't keep us away, Jody. Can't keep me away. Am I...

We're in the pit forever. All of us. Me, you, Caitlin Dever, Joanna, and Mari. We all got in that pit. And that's kind of the thing. I'm not holding for anyone new to get on board. I don't think that's what's... I don't think that's what's happening.

Yeah. But season three, it, like, ended hopefully, and that's unusual for yellow jackets. Ended on a hopeful note, not just the dial tone of a satellite phone and the hope for a warm shower and a comfortable bed in the future. But it was a good finale. I thought the finale was really great, yeah. I thought the finale was great after, I guess we could say, a couple of uneven seasons. But you can pry my love for season one yellow jackets out of my cold, dead, probably half-eaten hands. Yeah, I mean, it's going to be hard for you to.

They are clawed, they are atrophied in this position. So many arm pringles removed. It becomes difficult to maintain your grip. It does. It does. Things are dripping. Skin is a Kimbo. But like, I remember how that felt.

Yeah. Have I felt it again in season two and season three? Not precisely. But I do feel excited about season four because of the way that season three ended. Because we're facing some new realities, post-rescue, possibly, how that rescue will even work. I remember the fun of. of like getting to see the gals on the soccer team in high school. And we're going to be returning to 90s fashions.

You know, like there's good stuff in front of us. Do I have the nerve to say bye? No, I do not. I don't have that. I mean, frankly, you're a responsible investor. Come on. Well, and you've always said that about me. And it's why you hired me because of my responsible investment.

Again, it's why I became a blogger. You're here to be bold, but you're not here to be reckless. No. I'm not here to Shawna this thing. If it were Shawna alone, I'd say sell. Yeah. I'd say sell. I don't know what the redemption arc for Shawna could possibly look like.

And I don't really know how to tie these timelines together. I'm so curious to see what they do about the timelines. I'm so curious to see how much time we spend where. I was thinking back to just seeing the plane. the return of the rescued crew. And like, oh, we're about to spend all this time in a third time. Like, no.

Just didn't happen. But like, not yet. Not yet. Exactly. I mean, maybe you're going to put those hoodies down. Exactly. We're going to see who's there. We'll see who is actually in this Oceanic Six.

Invigiously into that camera again. Raising or lowering the glasses, both are possible. I mean, the glasses are in a pretty, pretty tough spot, actually, for the glasses. But we don't have to bring that. We don't have to bring that up. We don't have to talk about that right now. Yeah, I'm feeling, again, holdful and hopeful. And I just, I really do love a survivalist story.

And I think we've gotten away from it a bit. We've gotten a bit in the weeds. And honestly, not quite enough in the woods. And that's what I'm looking for. And I really did not do this behind me for prop comedy. And yet. And yet. And yet you have delivered.

You have delivered prop comedy nonetheless. Wonderful. Jody, thank you for this measured, sensible, driven by trauma, but latching on still to the possibility of a brighter future selection. I think it's a great one. I'm right there with you. I am always in on Caitlin Dever, always. I am always ready to go back into the pit.

that this is a great, a great smuggle, a great bundle of two things that it's always appropriate to talk about here on Howsevar. So thank you for joining the first stockwatch, possibly the last stock watch, we'll see, that we ever do. Thank you for making a selection. We're about to make so much money, so I'll be back. You're the best. It was wonderful to see you. Everybody check out. We're obsessed. I'm here with one of my favorite people in the world. It's Andy Greenwald. He is here to talk about his buy, hold, or sell for this particular moment. moment in time. Andy? Yes. Let us have it. First of all, thanks for having me. You have a standing invitation to come on the pod whenever you'd like. This is an honor to be here. I'm only keeping Joanna's

seat warm. I'm happy to be with you here for this. I love potting with you. I always have. We go way back. Here's what I think we should both do. Let's just loosely and lightly pencil in mid-February for a little Ravens Eagle Super Bowl talk. Oh, I love it. Because I thought I was here. You told me I was here to do QB tears. And suddenly where I realize that's not what we're doing. Yeah, you're here to explain why Lamar and Hertz are superior to Burrow. That's what we're talking about today. It's, well, you know what? You're a bridge builder. That's really nice. I feel like that's not what most sports podcasts do. Yeah. No, we will do all those things. Absolutely. But I'm here, look, there's, there's a couple things that I know a lot about, and there's a couple things I don't. And the things that I don't know a lot

about are how to do successful stock trading metaphors and gambling metaphors. Honestly, same. Same. But here's what I think I'm going to do. Despite working for Bill for more than a decade. Neither of us understand those things. I listen to them guess the lines every week, and I nod and chuckle, and I don't know what it means. I have no idea what it means.

That said, I'm here in the ringer-verse universe. Yes. That's right. That's right. To say it's time to start shorting dystopia. I mean, it feels to me like you're canceling our podcast. No, no, no. I think you're prepared for this.

Dysopia is sort of what we do here? Here's my suggestion. Dysopia is actually what we now do out here. I see where you're going with this. Thus, we need to pivot back to the original conception of fantasy. Yes. And I'm here to tell all you quants out there to drop the zombie guns and go long on whimsy.

I think we're due. You're pivoting to whimsy. You're pivoting back to whimsy. Yeah. Some of us never laugh. I genuinely don't think that there is much appetite. Okay, we all do this. We all are subject to our own prejudices and priors.

And I am well known for being done with end of the world shit. That said, I do feel like there might be some shableness. passion for that. Yeah. Because this time, I think the world is a little bit ending. The world is terrible. And I don't know if people want to spend their hard-earned remaining non-cryptocurrency to indulge in more of it.

Right. You don't want to spend. You are officially like, I do not want to spend my leisure time consuming things that make me feel bad. That is not what you're looking for. And I do think, and we can save this for the podcast about psychology or relationship. with our parents that we could do off mic. Which we were doing off mic before we started.

Hopefully it's been recorded. I do think... The cameras are always rolling in these studios. Keep that in mind. I do know that. Keep that in mind. The mics are always on. There is a control room over there that's like the third Matrix movie.

I know. I'll never forget the first time I realized that. It's a little bit creepy. But I mean, look, I think that there is a... There's always going to be an appetite for end-of-the-world stories because in a weird way, it is comforting to see at least it will be controllable and knowable, and some people will survive. It is a solve to some anxious brains. It's like the way our brains are like, well, the plane's going to go down because the alternative of I have to land and go to this meeting or see this person in my family is somehow worse in the moment.

Anyway, that's not going away. And it makes you cherish what you have when you have to confront the fact that it could all be gone. Does it? That the yearning tendrils of the mushroom apocalypse could deprive you. of all of the joy and love and comforts that define your experience. So you could make the case that dystopian tales allow us to celebrate life. That's beautiful and why this podcast does numbers. I would like those mushroom tendrils to just take me away.

But I've also been noticing we've been talking about this on the watch. There's an excellent, excellent show on Netflix right now called Families Like Ours. There's a true thing that happened. And it always happens with the watch, which as you know is my, I don't. mind saying it. I'm not supposed to have favorites, but I do. And the watch has always been my favorite podcast, and it will always be my favorite podcast. And as I have told you and Chris many times, and then Chris told all of the listeners of the world, so now it's not a secret. I do often listen to it in the bath because that's me time. And I like to spend it with my guys. But there's

another member of my household who routinely consumes the watch. And it is, of course, my husband Adam, who is a long time Greenwald and Chris Ryan Stan, of course. And he beat me to the last couple episodes. And so I received these takes from him instead of from me. you, he was like, the guys are hyped about a thing. And the thing about the show is that it is a dystopian, uh, freaky show about something that feels completely plausible and could happen at any moment, which is a country deciding to shut down because of rising sea levels. All of this is to say, I am here for a turn towards hope and optimism, which are,

you know, actually superpowers. Yes. Particularly in times like these. Absolutely. And I think you need three things to make a trend. So I'm struggling here. Okay, tell me. But I do think Greta Gerwig's Narnia movie, which is in the news because they've started

filming in London. Yeah, set photos were popping up over the last day or so. And this is, are you, I mean, I assume you know everything. Are you a Narnia person? I enjoy the Narnia books. I'll definitely have to, like, do a full refresh before magician's nephew, which I think even that, like the fact that Greta Gerwig is starting with them. Magician's nephews. It's wild. Which I love it. That's chronologically the first one, but

canonically was written third or fourth or something. Yeah, so like a longstanding debate about where people should actually start. Sixth to be released, but first in the timeline. The fact that she's making that, it's like fascinating. Also, magician's nephew does sound like something from an old French English phrase book, you know, like the Pannas on the Bureau of my uncle. I quite agree. And that's coming next year. But first of all, Greta Gerwig, follow up to Barbie, Emma Mackie, Daniel Craig. Merrill Streep is the voice of the big old lion. Merle Streep, have you heard of her? I mean, I've never heard her like this.

Have you ever heard her be a giant cat? Carrie Mulligan. Patron St. The Watch. This is very, very exciting. And I think it is magical. Some might even say religious. And I think that's an interesting place for culture to go. I think you pointed out to me that the next Game of Thrones sequel,

which is coming next year, Night of the Seven Kingdom, is very, very explicitly, well, all Game of Thrones shows are explicit, but explicitly not like the other ones in the sense that it is kind of a gentle adventure. Yeah, the winter 2026, we thought the show was going to come out this year, it's moved, but it should still be pretty soon, early next year. And it is based on the, this is the adaptation of the beloved, beloved by me, beloved by many, Duncan Egg novellas, and the first season is adapting the Hedge Knight, the first novella.

I will not try to lie to you or to the bad babies and say, like, there's no dark shit coming in The Night of the Seven Kingdoms. That's not the case. I mean, it's still with Seven Kingdoms. Exactly. Like, it's still Westeros. Things get pretty grim at times. But I'm kind of, like, fascinated to see how much they end up showing in trailers and in the marketing material. So I'm reluctant to say too much, but timeline-wise, kind of sandwiched between Hot D and Game of Thrones.

and like it is very much a swords and shields adventure story, and it is rooted in useful exuberance and like the joy of discovery. Yes. And I love those novellas. I'm so excited for the show. I hope it's wonderful. I, you know, one of the things that makes that show that I was talking about,

families like ours work for me is that within, even within the context of the show, which is a total. collapse of a nation, youthful optimism, even when clearly foolhardy from an adult perspective, cannot be tamped down and cannot be denied. And I think we deny part of ourselves when we X that out of stuff, which is also why I can contractually say zero, but there is also a Harry Potter TV show coming to HBO, which I don't know if you've read the books, but pretty, pretty uplifting in terms of found family and purpose and discovery of magic in the world. And I am

I will go off book to say that I am for reasons that I can't get into. I'm very optimistic and feel very good about that. So to sum up, your whimsy trio, joy only, the white witch origin story, adaptation of a novella largely set on a tourney ground, melee is a plenty. First of all, you fed me that take. So you get. Well, there's always darkness. That's why we have light.

But I mean, look, there's another way into this argument, which is maybe more veering into the big picture category. But Marvel, in trouble. And are people really checking for a doomsday? Now, yes, they will because Bob Downey Jr. is back. And probably all the other popular characters are, too. Do you think you would get that to stick before Doomsday, Bob? Personally, no.

Bob Downey. I think you guys could. I think it's really something that, like, with the doomsday and secret wars of it all in the multiverse saga, there's a move to be made. That he's a variance. I think it's time. But, but, like, also, if you do just do a vibes check of it, right? Forget the box office for a second. The takeaway from the last six weeks does seem to be Superman kind of hit and Fantastic Four kind of missed.

Now, Fantastic Four did retrofuturism in a joyful way and I really, really liked. I quite enjoyed that movie. Actually, Borderline loved it. Yeah, same. But you could, if you wanted to have a take, which is what podcasts I believe are for in their initial form, you could say that people were buying more of James Gunn's world of brightly colored superheroes who are always out there doing their best for us as opposed to another plank in the someone's coming to eat this planet, doomsday slog. So I was going to ask you this. I was going to ask you how much the Superman effect was fueling the take. Because, I mean, we both really enjoyed the first steps,

a Fantastic Four movie. And, like, I think that the tone and vibe and portrayal of a world and a moment of time and the specificity of that palette and, of course, the vibes and dynamics inside of a family unit, whimsy was present, certainly. But Superman, period. And then James Gunn's Superman specifically,

was, you know, as I think is always the case in a James Gunn comic book movie because I love his films, you know, nuanced and complex, but also a buoyant, candy-coded. Yeah. The ideal is hope. Yeah. Portrait. And people responded incredibly powerfully to it. I think so.

And clearly it's a moment where there's a desire to luxuriate in a film or a show. that allows you to latch on to the idea that maybe somebody out there is trying to make the world better? Save us. Our guy Clark Kent is just out there trying to make the world better. I think that this is a collective moment of deep realization that there are no guardrails and no one is coming to save us. So why not take refuge in the multiplex where someone might also be a fantasy, but at least we get to see it happen? Yeah, I'm interested in how this develops over the next two years, not to make everything like most things are these days culturally, like between these two. It's not just necessarily a two party system between these two comic book companies and studios.

But even within the companies, I think there's an interesting conversation happening because the version of Batman that James Gunn seems interested in making as the Brave and the Bold, you know, there's rumors of like he's going to do the blue suit, you know, not the black armor. He's going to have Robin back. He's going to be a detective who's going to join Justice League in a different way. Like that version of the character, which is just as legitimate canonically as the brooding dark night. But within that same company, Matt Reeves is doing the brooding dark night. I can't wait for both of them. Why not all of the above? See, that's beautiful.

You are a bridge builder. We have a lot of bonds to make. Why not all of it? That's true. I can speak for personal experience. it is a little bit cutting off your nose to spite your face to dislike stuff because you got to do another show that week.

Would you lump in, I think the overall, this is maybe opening a can of worms here, but like the overall live action remake industry, perplexing, I would say, deeply. But I think the selection of those stories is often whimsy-centric or whimsy-adjacie. So are you talking about, like, How to Train Your Dragon?

Right. Is a very whimsy-forward story. So are you, like, thinking any differently about maybe a cultural trend that you might find somewhere between creatively bankrupt and actively appalling and saying, you know what? Got a little more space in my heart for this than I otherwise would have because this is maybe a new way to position a story that can allow people to feel some sort of joy? Or do we have to maintain a degree of separation between, is it not whimsy anywhere in any corner, whimsy in any form?

Is it specifically? I guess that what I mean when I say whimsy isn't necessarily just things that are twee, but maybe things that are a little bit pop, bright, and surprising emotionally, and not the same tonal beats of broken boy must fix self through. pain and suffering of world slash a city gets dropped on another city. Shout out metropolis in Sukovia. I guess that was a country. That was pretty cool. Sikovia is always on our minds. Well, the Accords were still living. We're still living in the shadow of them to this day. That's true. Yeah, I don't know the answer to that. And I wish that I had more, I mean, like, in the development rooms of the major studios, maybe they're listening to this right now being

like, what a fool, because we know what we're making for the next few years. And it's all video game adaptations of killing people. But I'd like to think that the audience might turn to something a little brighter. And there's some evidence of that, right? But if I want to pull out the last grader Gerwig movie as an evidence of it, as evidence of it, Barbie is forever linked with Oppenheimer

and brooding three-hour movie about the invention of... That is a helpful bit of shorthand for maybe how these things are like inextricably entwined. It just feels though that like, And I'll leave it here because this is a bigger ongoing conversation. But there is a, dare I say, endgame of like how far you can push this stuff in terms of raising the stakes, but also continually resetting to the status quo. We've seen the end of heroes.

We've seen the end of timelines. Fantastic Four threatens the end of a planet. And where all this is going is the collapse of the multiverse. So that we can reset. So that we can ultimately reset. and then maybe just get back to what we really want, which is just Spider-Man, one of them. I don't care which one, but just one.

And the X-Men. Swinging through. A famously bright and joyful franchise X-Men. I want to come back to talk about that. I feel, honestly, I love Chris. And, you know, famously, Chris once called me on vacation from Vermont in, like, 2000, being like, bro, do you know about the 12? Because he had, like, one graphic novel with him.

So he does roll a little bit deep in these Janosha streets. but like since it's actually probably happening, I want to talk to you guys about it. You're welcome to come here and discuss the X-Ban with us at any time. I'm all worried, but I don't want to get it. No. What?

We'll do this. Like, I think Jake Shriar is the right guy. I think Thunderbolts was really good. Thunderbolts was really good. Beef. Beef is really good. He's really talented. And I'm starting to,

I'm starting to think that the problem here, we all agree. that the Marvel push onto TV onto the Disney Pleas Service was a mistake. Like they just, I'm not saying everything was bad, but the way they handled it is now, that is now part...

The instant swelling of... That is now, speaking of canon, they all say this now. Perhaps we over leveraged or whatever. I think one of the issues is Figey's really good at identifying what the core tenet of a character is, but I feel like X-Men is the one thing

where you should say, fundamentally, this is a television show. This is a sprawling. multi-season different miniseries approach to a universe that doesn't, I don't know if it is reducible to six cool dudes in a school or all of the mutants ever on a living island. Whatever version of it they do, can you reduce it to the correct one to translate? And can you even count on enough success to be making four, five, six, seven sequels in the future? I feel like those days may be over too.

It's interesting that like one of, obviously in terms of the audience relationship to each of these things, I don't think the consumer base for X-Men 97, the recent animated series is obviously anywhere close to the consumer base of all of the Fox films. But it is still interesting to have such a approximate, such a recent example of how compelling it can be to watch an X-Men story over two and a half months. Yes. I mean, there are a lot of very strong X-Men movies as well. but seeing what you can do in a TV season. Are there a lot of strong X-Men movies? There's a few quite bad ones. There's one.

There's one really good one. Also some good ones. There's a good one. You're coming back. We're diving into the X-Men. What's the other good one? X-2 is awesome. Are you not counting Logan as an X-Men movie?

I wasn't. Well, you should be. Okay. Right? All right. I mean, do you count multiverse of madness as an Avengers movie? No, of course not. Okay.

All right. See? I see what you. I see what you did. But, all right. I'm going to put my Magneto helmet on now and protect myself from you. Okay. So then there are two. Because well, part of your, part of the argument is like, can you zoom in on just a few people and make it interesting?

So I think the answer is yes. Yeah. The right ones and you've only got one shot at it because people aren't checking for this stuff anymore. I don't know. A lot of pressure. Okay. We have some X-Men potting ahead of us in the future. We have some football potting ahead of us in the future.

I'm availed. Some of my favorite teams are football teams and X-Men teams historically. I wish you luck the rest of your ongoing and successful baseball season. It's not a year where we will be discussing baseball together, sadly. I refrained from doing it. I was with our friend Chris Ryan in Philadelphia when that was happening. And I did say, has Mallory explained to you what is going on here? I got some rude texts from him about.

about Kyle Schwerber, and then I did get a more sincere, what happened to your boys? That's my, he, I was probably because I said that. He's like, oh, she's not responding to my good nature jousting when I actually cared about you because the last time we talked about baseball, you were like, I am at the beginning of a beautiful golden era. In the championship window. I was wrong. Well, there are, you know, architects know that you can make windows in a lot of different sizes. Also, you can, they shot, but then they open again. That's the whole, literally the whole thing about a window.

Yeah, and some are like submarine porthole windows that you can look at of, but you can't open and you see the water level going up. You're free to go. Got to go. See in the postseason. Some of you. Thanks. Okay, friends. Bad Babies everywhere.

That is it. We have reached the end of the first house of our stockwatch. We needed to call in basically everybody who has ever consumed any bit of pop culture here at the ringer in order to even attempt to approximate. Joanna's unrivaled read of the landscape. Don't take our investing advice when it comes to your actual money. None of us are prepared to guide you in that sense. However, when it comes to buying, holding, or selling on your nerd culture favorites, hopefully you found this fun, entertaining, perhaps informative today.

We will be back next week. Rob Mahoney and I will be breaking down Alien Earth episode three. And then at the end of the week, it's peace. Macemaker Season 2, premiere time. I'm still hoping to book Eagley as the co-host for that episode. We'll see how it goes. I'll get back to you. Thank you today to all of my wonderful guests who carved out time and their busy schedules to join me for the House of our Stockwatch.

Thank you to, I mean, it's always a big, a big round of thank you to the House of our crew, but everyone has just been sitting here all day. All day. As we realized all of these sessions. So an even bigger thank you than usual, too. The Legends, the icons. Carlos Chirooga, John Richter, Arjuna Ramga Powell. And thank you as well to Jo Mia Deneeron

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