House of R - 'Ahsoka' Episode 3 Deep Dive

Episode Date: September 1, 2023

The purrgils are here! Join Mal and Jo as they dive deep into ‘Ahsoka’ Episode 3, "Time to Fly" (17:40). They talk about Hera’s rough day at the office, Sabine’s training with Ahsoka, and of course, purrgils. Later, Ben Lindbergh joins for a lore look into other characters who were weak in the Force (2:15:48). Hosts: Mallory Rubin and Joanna Robinson Guest: Ben Lindbergh Associate Producer: Carlos Chiriboga Additional Production: Arjuna Ramgopal and Steve Ahlman Social: Jomi Adeniran Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Sean Fennessey. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And together we host The Big Picture, The Ringers Film Podcast for new releases, career retrospectives, director interviews, movie drafts, top fives, and so much more. Twice a week, we break down the latest releases,

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Fast, reliable internet means everything. thing for your business and even this podcast. That's why I trust Spectrum business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 U.S.-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. I know. I just, I can't use a force. I don't feel it. Not like you do.

The force resides in all living things. Even you? If that's true, then why doesn't everyone use it? Talent is a factor. But training and focus are what truly defines someone's success. Not everyone can handle the type of discipline it takes to master the ways of it. Start small. And welcome to House of Our, a Ringerverse podcast on the Ringer Podcast Network.

I'm Mallory Rubin and it is my absolute pleasure to, invite you not only back to Citos, but also to our new House of Our podcast feed. Joining me today, here to remind us that the Jedi Order would not have accepted me. I am not an acceptable candidate. It's my House of our title. There goes, Joanna Robinson. Joe, I went with it. It felt right and I went with it. Permanent title. What's up, my dude? What's up bad babies?

Bad babies. What's up bad babies? That's the real question. Did Steve San Carlos, the remix sound clip of What's Up Bad Babies to drop in? We'll find out. Here's the deal. Yeah. Oh, okay.

We've got a deal. I've seen things. You people wouldn't believe. I've watched Pergles swim in the mist off the shores of Citos tears in the rain. Time to fly!

I'm sorry, I just don't think about Blaberer Every time I saw the title, Time to Fly. A rooftop as well, you're potting live from the edge. I bleached my hair, I brushed it forward, I'm standing in the rain, it's true. Time to fly. In Apocalypse, Los Angeles.

Beautiful. I'm to fly. Joe, we're sort of always here to talk about Blade Runner, but more particularly today, we are here to dive a day into the third episode of Asoka. Before we fly among the pergels, some quick programming reminders. House of Our is now twice a week on this new feed. If you're listening to this and you've listened to a handful of pods on this feed now and you're like, we know. You don't need to keep. telling us. We're going to do it for a few more pods. It's early. It's a fledgling feed. It's early in the journey. I know it's a weird place to say it because like theoretically if you're here, you already know, but I just think you and Mallory and a lot of our listeners to know.

We got so many emails this week from listeners being like, hey, are you guys going to cover Asoka? And I had to be like, yes, we're on a new feed. Come join us. So the word, the word hasn't spread. Again, I don't know that putting it here will help it spread. But tell your friends and neighbors. How so far as your new feed. It has spread, but we need It's spread even more. Keep spreading it. You're already on the pathway to Peridia. But like, what other, what else can you bring in the pergill tentacles along with you?

That's the question. It's true. Follow the feed, if you haven't, if this is your first episode, hit that follow button on Spotify or wherever you find your podcast. Please, if you're so inclined, give us those five-star ratings. We are so grateful for all of the five stars that we have already received. and we're greedy. We want more. Keep them coming.

We love them. We're basking in them. But truly, it's made my hair shinier. It's made, there's put a spring in Mallory Rubin's step. And we would love to continue to flourish here on our new feed. So yeah, five stars.

Give them to us. Thank you. I don't know. It's Thursday. We're like Brogu looking for another frog to gnaw on. More. Is that a tasty macaroon? Give it to me.

Head back into the House of Our next Tuesday. Joanna, what will we be talking about then? Valerie, I love the way you say my name, by the way. Joanna. Anyway, Doctor Who is what we're talking about. Yeah. We are going to be covering the Matt Smith era of Doctor Who next week on the pod next Tuesday. That is all three seasons that Matt.

Smith participated in as well as all of these specials that he was a part of including the 50th anniversary special and then the one after that which is his last hurrah. So we are going to cover all of that. I really enjoyed hearing from people who who are following along for the watch. I'm watching for the first time. So thrilled to introduce you all to Dr. Hu. If you listen to our fall hype meter, you know that Dr. Who was really high on the list for both of us in terms of the anniversary specials that are upcoming in November. So. Get ready to experience the joy with us. Come watch Doctor Who with us. So yeah, Matt Smith. It's 11. It's Amy Pond. It's Rory. It's people you haven't even met yet,

Mallory in your watch in the TARDIS. Next Tuesday. Fantastic. How high did the 60th anniversary episodes that are still to come check in? You have to listen to that episode to find out. It's the fall slash winter rest of two. thousand twenty three height meter went up a couple days ago and it's south of two hours folks

it's a tasty little little podlet by als of our standards for you over on the ringerverse it is a bonus boys week the midnight boys pew pew drops their instant reaction to osoka episode three already that went up on wednesday of course wonderful episode give it a listen if you haven't yet. This Friday, so depending on when you're listening to this, today, yesterday, right around nowish, they had a bonus episode for you. My Adventures with Superman. Guys are hyped about the show.

They're excited to talk about the first season. Check it out. Joanna. It's a lot. Pods of plenty. Pods full of pergles, pods full of episodes of podcasts. How can the people follow all of it? What I really recommend.

is if you just subscribe, that would just solve all of your woes. So subscribe to House of R. Subscribe to Ringervorse, subscribe to trial by content, subscribe to every single podcast on the ringer. No, those three. That's what I'm here.

Prestiashiv. Sometimes Malay and I will be there. Follow us on social at Ringerverse. House of Ars still getting promoted or at Ringerverse on Twitter, on Instagram, on TikTok. you asked for more Ben Lindbergh. Maybe we'll deliver in the only way that you will be able to know is if you follow us on all those socials.

And then, of course, please do. Send us your thoughts to Havasandragons at gmail.com. Frankly, all of your theories about who Merrick is are unhinged, but I do read them all and they give me a chuckle. So please, you can continue to send your unhinged theory. Will we abolish Theory Corner at some point? Possibly. Who's to say? But for now, it's alive and well here in the pod for all your unhinged Maruk takes. Lastly, it's the final programming reminder. And then it's the same one that we end the intro with every week. It's the friendly neighborhood, spoiler warning. And on a Star Wars pod, the neighborhood's big. It's the size of the galaxy. And soon it'll be beyond the galaxy. So another other galaxy. Yeah, multi-galaxy.

Wow. We'll be talking about everything that happened in this episode of television, the third episode of Asoka, Asoka Part 3, Time to Fly. We'll be talking about everything that's ever happened in Star Wars. Anything that Asoka has appeared in, anything that the characters from rebels have appeared in, some legends canon might come up today. The original trilogy is going to come up today.

It's all on the table if it's happened in Star Wars canon. Okay. I see that you got rid of my presets. But no matter, it's still time to begin today's episode. Quick facts. Part 3, Time to Fly, written, once again, and as every episode of the season will be, by Dave Filoni directed once again by Steph Green, who directed part two as well, scored by Kevin Kiner.

And this is a 36-minute episode of television. That puts it once you remove the previously on the intro and the end credits, right around 29-ish minutes of new stories. Okay. And yet, will it be a brisk pod? So now I doubt it. Are you proud of me? I didn't make a, yeah, I didn't make a runtime prediction.

You told me I couldn't and I didn't. Yep, I made it illegal for you to do that. But what have I done, I have reopened, you can, speak of timing. you're allowed to interrogate the timeline again. I've allowed it in the notes. I have the timeline of Star Wars. Limited. But not the runtime of the podcast anymore.

Because every time Mallory's like, Mallory's like, this is going to be a quick one. And then guess what it isn't? All right. So Bobby B, quick one. Okay. Well, this one part of this podcast will be a quick one because it is the opening snapshot.

Just like all times. Joanna Robinson. Give us your quick opening thoughts on part three. time to fly, just a little taste of the insights to come. I will say that I have the utter joy of watching this on a Tuesday night along with, you know, everyone else who, like, what a delight six o'clock on a Tuesday to tune in with everyone else and watch Asoka? I assume you started it at like 647 after the Worldles game ended, but yes, carry on. No, I multi-screened it, obviously.

Um, no. Um, and, uh, I, so I'll admit that the first time I watched it through, I, I was actually a bit impatient with this episode. Um, I felt like not enough was happening, even though there's like, obviously like an action-packed, uh, dog fight, but I didn't feel like enough was progressing past things we already knew. Um, and I was a little frustrated by that. But then when I rewatched it a couple times, I really enjoy the way in which relationship or character evolution, was built into the action. And so I wound up liking it much more because of that. But I will say initially, like, I was so high on the first two episodes. And then I watched this one and I was like, I think because it's short, you know, I sort of like wish there were a second act of this episode. Or they had dropped two at once. I still kind of feel that way. But I came to really appreciate some of the subtleties of it. How about you, Mallory Rubin? Do you think you felt differently about because I wasn't right there next to you. Yeah, squeezing my arm,

muttering, where's the cat, where's the cat, who's feeding the cat? I have so many questions about sweet boba the loathe cat. So many. I am concerned. You're right. I felt a cold emptiness inside of me, and it was the lack of your warmth and bubbling personality.

So never leave me again is the lesson. Thank you. All right, I'll be there next Tuesday night. Actually, you should come here. The Ozer in Anaheim, they're in town. This time, I'm coming to you. Yeah, we can once again share many of our passions together. I enjoyed the episode.

I think, yeah, obviously it is so brisk and so compact that you get to that final shot of Bailin. It's like, whoa, the episode is over. And I think particularly, I think that sensation is exacerbated on the heels of having watched not only two episodes at one. together, but two really long and really needy episodes were basically coming off, you know, an hour and 45 minutes of story. And so this is, this is much lighter and certainly there is less plot. This is more of a moving the characters on the board so that they are in place where they need to be for the next sequence of events kind of episode. Is the third episode of a season too early for that? Did it feel earlier than it otherwise would? Because we got the first two

in one drop, etc. Maybe we'll look back and assess that when we have a fuller sense of the whole scope of the season. But I loved so much of the substance inside of the scenes, the Asoka and Sabine training sequence and conversation about the force in particular. I am so looking forward to breaking those down today. And here's one of the bonuses of a quick little episode.

When we say we're going beat by beat, we can really do that with those couple of scenes now. We're going to parse all of it. I was stunned. Yeah. By your level of detail in the notes today. I couldn't help it. Were you though? Were you though?

Were you though? We got the thing. There's still plenty of questions. Plenty of things we yet to learn. But we did get the thing in this episode that a lot of people were asking for last week, which is like, what do these people? feel like together. How do they interact? How do they behave?

What do they say to each other? How are they going to build from this wound that we still haven't gotten to see or learn how it formed? So I enjoyed that a lot. I'll tease for our longer discussion to come that seeing, obviously, we had blimpsed the pergul in live action with sweet baby girls before seeing them in full. Simply one of the thrills of my life. That's remarkable. I was fucking vibrating.

I was in heaven. I was. So was it a perfect episode of television? No, but I thought there was a lot to like. And, you know, as is often the case in the eight episode, Star Wars seasons, I'll be curious to see how it feels in the grand scope of the season when we're a little bit further. I am expecting like a banger next week, though, based on where we left off. And the thing is, after next week, we're halfway.

Like, we're at the midway mark after the next installment. So we're getting to the, oh my God, we're almost through our journey, panic stage. And I can't believe that. You felt that after episode two, remember? You were like, it's almost over. The second they flashed the Soka title card. I was like, I just, I don't want to go. I don't want to go.

I don't want to go. I'm not here to Yaku Yum, but I will say that, like, the episode that everyone seems to be hyping who worked on the show, obviously they can't say anything. So, like, it's five. And that's a feloni episode. So I don't know Peter Ramsey is directing the great Peter Ramsey into the Spider-Verse ever heard of it. Is directing next episode. So I'm excited, of course.

But I think I'm saving my, this is going to be a banger energy for good old five. Yeah. Scales of banging. Oh, okay. Scales of bang. I don't know. It's going to be like. We bang and then we...

Bang exponentially. And then like... Bad, baby. Oh, boy. All right. Let's get to it. We have a lot to discuss. Nothing can prevent our journey.

It is time for the deep dive. Every time. Every time. I have no idea. Struck a new. I don't understand it. When we hear it. Restruck.

Lightsaber training. in hyperspace. First scene of the episode. We have so much to discuss. I have so many questions to ask you. I'm really looking forward to talking about this scene. Last week, Joe, our guy who Yang said,

perhaps it's time to begin again, and indeed, it is, because as the T6 is journeying through hyperspace on the way to the Deneb system, Sabine's training has resumed. And our guy, Hot David Tennant Summer continues unabated.

Hu Yang once again co-lead of this episode of television. Fast bucket extraordinary. Yeah. Remarkable. Doing his best general grievous cosplay in the opening stretch of this episode

with the four saber appendages, the faux sabres in this case, that are like censors to mark how successfully The angle of approach. Yeah. The set. Yeah.

I will say, you know, our guy was, it's a tough crowd and he was clear and uncompromising with his feedback. Not bad but not good,

he said. It's been a while. Obviously. Now, if you're counting the yellow or the red, could you say he was charitable, actually?

Not bad, but not good. It's been a while. Obviously is what you say to me anytime I take a single week off when I come back. And you're like, well, a little, a little rusty. Yeah, that's because I don't take weeks off.

Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Never known you to take a single day off or to not do podcast when you are on vacation. Or have COVID. She, yeah, you know what? Our girl is learning. She's relearning.

And I have to wonder, I couldn't help but wonder, to quote, Carrie Bradshaw. If some of this like Sabine struggling through training is some sort of call in response to the critique of Ray being needing not a single lesson in the fore seemingly and being good at everything from the jump. I hope that that's not the case. But it is at least I think it's interesting. And we'll go through this beat by beat as we go through all of this stuff. But I think it's just fascinating as something we wanted to watch someone's struggle, ungifted struggle through training with Asoka and I guess also the very acerbic droid. It was a long for the ride.

One of the observations that are beloved pal and colleague Ben Lindbergh, who his health and wellness permitting will be joining us later in today's podcast noted in his column this week this was not his favorite episode of television

was if this is where Sabine is does that mean that the initial round of training was like incredible brief has there been a supreme regression in the time off and that gets back to the question of like how long were they together

in the first place? How long has it been since they were together? And perhaps one day will find out and perhaps we won't. And is that okay? How much do we need to know about this, I guess, is the question. I feel like I get the context of it without needing specifics. Yeah, I am much more focused on the question of what for each of them pulled them together and then what pushed them apart? Then how many sparring sessions did you do on the T6,

with the kitchen table down in recess mode. I am loving the flexibility of this space. Oh, yeah, I'm calling it the Mojo Dojo Kasa room where it's just sort of like, is it a dojo, is it the dining room, is it the planning center? It can be anything. It's just like exquisitely designed. Great.

It's absolutely, it's flexible, it's functional. It's got everything you need. Asoka steps in. she's observing for a second and then she has a thought she suggests a different course joanna what does what does osoka want to try here am i going to pronounce it correctly is it zatochi is that how she pronounces it which is a nod to zatoichi which is the blind swordsman from japanese novels and cinema um of course we've been talking for a long time about you know obviously a japanese cinema inspired George Lucas in the first place.

But ever since Asoka made her live action debut and the Jedi, Dave Faloni's episode of The Mandalorian, we've been talking about, like, heavy on the Japanese cinema influence when it comes to Asoka. So this seems like a really sweet nod to one of many influences

in the mix here. We get our first glimpse of Osoka working as Sabine's master and teacher. We have seen Asoka across the, the stretch of her story in a leadership role, a number of different times with a number of different characters, taking the lead, sparking a plan,

helping to guide. But this particular dynamic with these characters, this is the first time that we've really gotten to see what this looks like and how it feels. We're going to go, you've kindly indulged me, and we're going to go, quote by quote, lesson by lesson here.

Because one of the things I really liked about this scene and this opening note for the episode. And what we get to hear from Asoka and Sabine here is that every line and every beat did feel like it taught Sabine and us something new, something specific. There is a lesson inside of every line. So the first one is your skill with a weapon comes from your Mandalorian upbringing. Those skills alone will not be enough to defeat our enemy. Now, here's why I loved this. This felt like, I was like, damn. I know that Osokatano is a house of our listener and was mainlining those Mando season three episodes. She really, she was. It's just like, this is exactly what we wanted for Grogu, right? And what we talked about so much heading in to season three and throughout, because Asoka is not saying here, forget your Mandalorian roots, abandon that aspect of who you are.

She's saying build on it. meld these different parts of your reality, blend them together to form this new version of who you want to be. And it struck me as particularly notable that it's almost the opposite of the opening note for the first time we saw Sabine train with a lightsaber. If you're playing the Will House of Our mentioned trials of the Dark Sabre drinking game today, going to encourage you not to chat, because it's not going to be good for your liver in today's episode.

she might not be able to fight like a Jedi a Canaan said, but she can learn to be proficient with the blade. This is like the complete inverse of that, right? What did you make of all of this? This is actually my favorite lesson to dig into because... Tell me why. I love that.

I will tell you why. We love to talk about the ways in which... What if I just said? It's my favorite lesson. Let's move on. We love to talk about the ways our Asoka left the Jedi Order, how she says I am no Jedi. But, you know, we mentioned in the first

couple episodes there are ways, you know, she has been referred to, she makes her live action debut in the Jedi. She's been referred to as a Jedi by people, even though she is not self-defining as a Jedi. So to go through her lessons and talk about the ways which all of her lessons

stand in direct opposition to things, not only things that the Jedi Order did, but things that the Jedi order did that we probably fundamentally disagree with as well. And so you mentioned Canaan, what Canaan says, and that's a good, you know, Canaan was trained in the Jedi Order. But when we think about, and we have like, this has been a theme that they've been hitting

hard kind of recently, like if you think about in the Obi-Won TV series, when Obi-Wan's like, guess what I had a brother, you know what I mean? And so we're meant to think more and more about what these younglings love. when they were ripped away from their families. First episode of Tales of the Jedi. Yeah. Exactly what I'm about to say. In Tales of the Jedi life and death, you know, all of those, we talked about Tales of the Jedi

and some of our prepods, but if you haven't watched them, Tales of the Jedi are these quite short animated episodes. There's only six of them. So they're all extremely intentional. We'll talk about another very key one today. But the very first one shows us Asoka, her life in the village that she was born. in before she was plucked away by Flo Cun at the age of like three, I think she was when she was

taken away. And what's devastating about that episode? It's like, it's a lovely episode to think about her preternatural, you know, force ability because she, you know, mindmills with a, with a predator to save herself. But you meet her parents and they're not only like so sweet and lovely. They are so excited to have a daughter. They're thrilled to have her. They love her so much. And so you have to think about the fact that she was taken away from, they have, they have accents that she doesn't have. You know, there's like things that she doesn't know about her very specific

culture at all. She doesn't sound like them. She doesn't, you know, she like, there are some traditional like dress and whatever that has to do with her culture, but like she doesn't really know her culture that well, and that's true for all the younglings who were taken away. If you think about Quigon taking Anakin away from his mother and this, like, original wound for Anakin Skywalker, like, and this is something, you know, when you think about leaving Schme there, never forget. Yeah, leaving Schme behind. But when you think about Luke, you think about Ezra also in Rebels, you know, there's this

idea that, like, you're too old to start training or you're too anchored to your place. We've already talked in previous pods about Ezra's connection to Lothal, his home planet, and stuff like that. And so, and the Jedi thinks that's a bad thing. And we, of course, think this is a great thing because what I like that Star Wars has done recently is draw a really straight line between what the Jedi Order did robbing these children of their individual cultures and what the empire has tried to do to homogenize. various planets or ripping kids away from their families to train them as stormtroopers, et cetera. And so how this is a frankly kind of evil thing that the Jedi order did, even though they thought they were doing the right thing. So for Asoka to be like, forget your Mandalorian roots, you are a Jedi only,

is something that the order might encourage, but she's like, no, we're not doing that. We're not doing it that way. And so that's, I love that about this lesson one. There are many lessons to go, but that's lesson one. That was beautiful. That is one of the reasons that Ezra, one of the many reasons, he's such an indelible character for people. So he is always fighting for a place and for people that he loves

and the place he grew up and the place he calls home. And I mean, that's something he shared directly with Sabine, who then also has her obviously very complicated, Mandelarian history, and that's all formed the person she is today. Like, we're going to get to a, I need her to be herself idea much later in the pod, but those things have to work in harmony with each other, right? Lesson two, you're training the body, but you must also open your mind. Now, this made me think of Yoda.

Aviodaumblads And Luke Are you gonna pull out Like an obscure Yota quote that no one ever uses? Like one of those like niche ones It's definitely not A deep cut One of the three most quoted lines in all of Star Wars

And the other two will probably come up today as well Dagaba Empire Strikes Back Luminous beings are we Not this crude matter You must feel the force around you here between you, me, the tree, the rock everywhere. That idea of the body, that idea of the crude matter, the physical form, what you think you can do, are you strong enough to lift

that X-wing out of the swamp? How does your training feel like it's going as you work your way physically through the circle and through these sets? That's like conditioning. That's not connecting to the force. And I love this idea about like thinking of your body. as this is not just my personal, complete and total allergy to unnecessary physical exertion of any form, right? Though it's probably also somewhat informed by that. I love the idea of thinking of the body as this vessel, right? That the force, you can channel the force,

but also it runs through you, right? And like this is a lovely little way into that. And so this episode connects to all these classic ideas, but in a way that's like specific to Sabina and Asoka. I love that. I would like to cite a similarly classic and beloved Star Wars property and that would be the phantom menace. Yeah. Yeah.

Most people have Empire and Phantom Menace 1-2 on their list. Actually, I do have phantom menace stuff later, but this is actually, I lied. This is Attack of the Clones. When Yoda's training the Younglings and Attack of the Clones, right? And he says, you know, I mean, the younglings are blind training. talk about blind training in a second, a Star Wars staple. Blind trading with lightsapers, which is not something that I would have children to. But you did say the word younglings on the pod without moving your fingers to cover your mouth.

And it is one of our sacred rules that you must mimic the actions of Obi-One-Kunobi anytime the word youngling is uttered. So I'm going to need you to start over to honor the patron saint of this podcast. No. Anyway, Yoda says, people can't. see, but you're basically doing like a monocle over your mouth. Use your feelings you must. We're always talking about feelings sensing.

I just like that when we, if you go through and you put together all the training that anyone will ever do and has ever done, there is, there are these steady through lines, obviously. But then what I love is that, as we already mentioned, Asoka, so what Asoka is doing is taking the best of what the Jedi have to offer and throwing away the stuff that she thinks we can't use, you know? Yes, absolutely. Lesson three. Lesson three.

Go for it. Learning to wield the force takes a deeper commitment, Osuka says. How? Sabian asks, that's something you'll have to discover. I'm torn on which one was my favorite, but this is in the running because, hmm. The thing that we talk about most with Asoka is her individuality, like how singular she is, how her path was her own. And so the great risk of hypocrisy for her character is not affording other people that

same opportunity. And so, like, it is so important for her to say to Sabine, like, I will impart this wisdom to you. I will guide you. I will help you. But at the end of the day, your path is your own. Like, why would she not want for Sabine the same thing? that she decided was right for herself.

I think what it also reminds me of is, is again, another Asoka in slight master mode with Ezra line that we brought up a ton, which is my experience just when you think you understand the force, you find out how little you actually know. It's not just that everyone needs to take their own step-by-step journey down the path through the force. I think that Asoka is saying there are many different paths you can take through the force and you're going to discover things hopefully that no one before has ever discovered

new avenues, new ways to use the force. There isn't just one way, which is what the Jedi order would demand that there is one way or what the Sith would demand. There is one way to do this. And Asoka and to your point that we were talking about in episodes one and two, all these force users we are seeing who are liberated, from these core ideologies of how to use the force means that we are primed for really pushing into new directions

in our understanding of this concept that we've been with for decades of pop cultural history. Yeah, like new problem, new door. It's like new door and new opportunity. Even when you set out on whatever your path is, like how many times is it going to fork? How many times is it going to bend and wind? Hopefully.

forever for the length of your life. Yeah. Lesson four. Asoka grabs a face shielded helmet. This is after she hears, after Sabine reveals to Asoka, what Hu Yang said in part two about,

you know, she's like, she did not make my preseason prospect rankings this year, nor would she have made them in any year in the history of a preseason prospect ranking. Not a blue chipper. And Asoka is very annoyed and says it doesn't matter.

And Sabine says, I think it does. And Huyang says it agreed. He's just on one this entire episode. And so Asoka is ready to provide this next lesson. She grabs this face shielded helmet. She has these very well-stocked training cases, which I thought was really interesting because, you know, we've talked obviously a lot about her decision to refuse to train Grogo in season two of the Mandalorian. Like she doesn't appear in general to have many possessions, but she has all of these tools to train.

Like she's keeping this in abundance, these ways to help her and maybe other people be ready. And Sabine has not seen the original trilogy of Star Wars. She's like, what are you doing? What's up with this? She says, you're joking. I can't see. How am I supposed to fight? And Asoka says, I want you to see with more.

more than just your eyes. Now, of course, this harkens back to Luke's initial training with Obi-1 Canobi in a new hope. Carlos, can we hear this? I suggest you try it again, Luke. This time, let go your conscious self and act on instinct.

With the blast shield down, I can't even see. How am I supposed to fight? Your eyes can deceive you. Don't trust them. Stretch out with your feelings. You see, you can do it. Maybe this one's my favorite.

It's tough. Any time someone calls a Star Wars character annoying, I don't get it, because the most annoying Star Wars character ever is a New Hope, Luke Skywalker. But I love whiny Luke Skywalker. I mean, Tashi Station, Power Converters, Luke Skywalker. So he's just like, well, the black. shield down. I can't even see. I'm supposed to fight. And I'm like, yeah, these, these people are annoying sometimes. It's just, I, I love Luke. It's not a knock on Luke. I just,

I just think he's like a perfect little whinge bucket in a new hope. Also, sublime. If, if helmet training is like day one for Obi-1 and Luke, like, how is Sabine never had... This was what sparked in this particular, like... Well, so, okay. We don't actually know, but maybe... Maybe...

Maybe Asoka decided to skip some of the typical day one curriculum. Whipped up her own syllabus, you know? Who could say? She's like, I'm not your regular teacher. I'm a cool teacher. And she walks in and she turns the chair backwards, like Michelle Piper in Dangerous Minds. And she like sits on it,

like, and she's wearing her love of deck. And she's like, we're going to use hip hop music to learn poetry. Okay, I got you. Leather jacket over the custom space suit. It's going to look great. It's great look. This, of course, is just a direct connection, though, between one of the most, like, iconic Star Wars moments.

And this character we think of is often doing different things, which was why I loved it. Like, I think your eyes can deceive you don't trust them. To me is... Star Wars base coat, right? That is one of the, like, foundational ideas on which the story and this hero's journey is built. So it was, it's powerful, I think, in general

to get to hear Asoka, a character we love this much, share that lesson and get to see Sabine receive it. And then we have that added emotional oomph of the Asoka Obi-1 connection that we talked about in our preview pods. Like, we talk at length all the time about Asoka and Anakin, but Obi-1 shaped Asoka so deeply so for her to be imparting

this particular bit of wisdom that we associate so supremely with him, that was just like a very, a very fulfilling thing across the Star Wars canon. We're about to get to, you know, a couple other people who influenced her, but what this all reminds me of is

that sparring sequence in Thrones between Aria and Brienne, where you can see all the teachers whoever taught Aria and all the different moves that she uses. And so to see all the people who have shaped Asoka into, you know, shaping the curriculum that she is here to give Sabine is, like, really satisfying. Did you spot Littlefinger and Sanzah watching from the bleachers on the T6? Yeah, I did. I did.

Lesson five. We hear Be Still. And then a couple of beats later, feel my presence. taken all of it is around you, follow my voice, sense my intention. And this is actually like what sets up the bulk of the action of this sequence. Soka is evading Sabine with ease. Sabine is losing her patience. She's breathing heavily.

She's frustrated. She wipes out. The use of the wooden training swords in particular, it's like I think impossible if you've seen rebels not to think of not just Canaan's decision to train Sabine with swords, but Harrah's rebuke of that. And her pushing Canaan, I don't recall Ezra using sticks to train

and how it felt different here. Like it didn't feel like a product of a lack of trust or certainty on Assoca's part, but this kind of like methodical, deliberate progressional intent. I hate to like jump on. You're going to talk about another Tales of the Jedi episode

in a second. And we're going to hear from it, which is going to be even better. But, but, But other language from that episode of Tales of the Jedi practice makes perfect. Anakin training Asoka. He says, you need to remain calm. Think, feel the intention of the trooper who will fire first. You should be able to sense the moment before they even pull the trigger,

which is like very close language to feel my presence, take, and all that is around you, follow my voice, sense my intention. So like, Anakin is here on one shoulder. Obi-Wan's on another shoulder. Yoda's in the crook of her elbow. Like all of her teachers are here in this. in this curriculum. But what is, of course,

if we think of Kanikan. If anyone hasn't seen that Tales of the Jedi episode, just the progression over years of Asoka's life of the same drill. Time and time and time again until it culminates in real world application.

Yeah. A very intense moment of circumstance. Something it saves her ass, very importantly. Yeah. Lesson six. Anger and frustration are quick to give power, but they also unbalance you. Let's go again. Now, this is kind of a moment to talk in general about everything that this entire opening scene evoked,

but that last bit, let's go again, in particular, like calls back to certain key moments because we've seen a ton of Jedi training, lightsaber training, master and apprentice training, over the course of Star Wars. There are a million things we could talk about here. There's like a handful that came to mind. We already talked just a couple minutes ago about the Obi-1 and Luke training in A New Hope. But of course, what is like right after the clip that we just heard? It's Luke saying, Han gets his little little shot in, right? To snark him. And then Luke says to Obi-Wan, you know, I did feel something. I could almost see the remote. And Obi-1 says, that's good. You've taken your first step into a larger world. And even though all of these

relationships and characters are different, like the constant, the through line is that you can't take that step into a larger world unless you go again, right? You can't ever move forward unless you decide to keep trying. Yoder training Luke, an empire. The I don't believe moment from Luke, I mean, talk about iconic Star Wars lines. That is why you fail. Like, again, that central text of needing to be determined to believe that something is possible. And maybe that something is your own ability. Speaking of Luke, sweet baby Grogues, book a Boba Fett, wouldn't be a house of our episode if we didn't talk about it, Chapter 6.

What does he say to Grogu? Get back up. always get back up. Then later he makes him decide between the sweet little shirt and the lightsaber, but we're not here to talk about that now. We are not here to talk about it. Canaan trading Ezra and rebels. There are too many scenes to even highlight one in particular there because it's really

a constant across the opening seasons. But the thing there I was thinking about is actually on the Canaan side, how he has to learn to trust himself, how he has to learn to believe that he can lead and guide another person and how like Asoka is on that journey as well. So let's go again is as much for her, right, as it is for Sabine. Canaan, of course, trained Sabine, as we talked about.

You're not fighting me. You're fighting yourself and losing. That's from Trials of the Dark Sabre. And then of course, Anakin, Anakin and Asoka. Let's go again is literally a thing that Anakin says to Asoka in Practice Makes Perfect, the Tales of the Jedi episode that you cited. Carlos, can we hear some more of Anacin's tutelage?

Look, I know this is tough, but I want it to be difficult. This is about life and death. And as your master, I'm responsible for you. The best way I can protect you is to teach you how to protect yourself. I always love that line, like that idea of responsibility. Who wrote practice makes perfect in Life and Death, The Two Tales of the Jedi episodes that we have said, why is Dave Bologna himself? So these are key I mean like the Tales of the Jedi episodes because I actually we're even going to talk about I think some of the Dukes I know some of the Dukyu stuff in this like it's it's really key to watch Tales of the Jedi and think about what is the intention behind they're not just fun little stories they are but what are the like what are the very important lessons that each of these very specific little pods.

of time are here to teach you. And one of those lessons is that Yaddle was a character in Star Wars, even though Yadal was kind of a badass. That she only ever seen one being. It looked like Groko. Yeah. Speaking of Pots of Time Show,

how did the piece of this sequence, which is about five minutes of a 25-minute episode, work for you? Like, how did this whole scene feel? How did it flow? How did it work for you? Again, upon rewatch, I really, I enjoyed it more.

I think I was really, I just should never look at the time bar on one of these episodes because I was just like really anxious. I was like, we are running out time. We don't have time for this. We have things to do. And once you know what the episode is, then if you rewatch it, you're just sort of like settle in. And like you, I had a really good time parsing sort of every line and thinking about all the other force ghosts that were maybe not literally, but sort of figuratively in the mojo dojo casa room with them as they were training. Should we talk about Harris' tough day at the office?

She is straight up not having a good time. And who among us on a Zoom call has not had a great time? Mon Mothma, our gal, is back. Along with four senators, we had seen this grouping featured in the trailer, so we knew we were going to see Mon Mothma, we knew we were going to see some of these senators. We get to see Pomato Ziono, featured prominently in this scene,

as a great A piece of shit prick. He is a senator from Hosnian Prime. So, of course, if you have seen the Force Awakens, you're like, wait a minute. Hosnian Prime, that's definitely the system

that Hux chose to blow up and obliterate with Chauanna's favorite fascist Hux blow up Hosni and Prime, therefore doing us all a favor by ridding us of Ziano. I have bad news for you.

He was not fair. It's like on vacation, off world. So we survived. But you think that some of these lessons know, didn't know. His son, Kaz, one of the central figures in Star Wars Resistance,

another animated Star Wars property. The relationship is basically like stop endangering us with your resistance work and like, why are you living your life this way? So this is, This guy's not going to be one of our allies. And I would say that that is abundantly clear in this scene. I did get a huge kick out of this initial, like, exchanging of pleasantries between Monmothma and Hara.

How's Jason? Is he with chop? It was awkward, but, like, no, it's not the awkwardness. I bristled at it. And the only reason why, I mean, so Ziano is like a piece of shit. And his, he's being like, can we, you know, If we could just hear the General's report, we're late as it is. Like yada, yada, yada, ladies, let's get going.

Mom is asking about Hara's kid, Jason, and Harris, like, oh, he's running around. And she's like, oh, like, you know, causing trouble with Chop, no doubt, you know, etc. And it's charming for us who know who Jason Stoodle is, who know, you know, who love chopper, like, all this or stuff. On a professional Zoom call with a general and a Senate, and I'm basing this mainly on a friend of mine who was like, Do you think Kara should be fighting because she's a mom? I'm like, don't give them any ammunition. Don't give. Oh, interesting.

Zono, this shitbag Zono, any ammunition to not take you seriously by saying your kid is running around the office, like fucking around with a robot. You know what I mean? And I say this in defense of mothers in the workplace because like you shouldn't have to. Of course. You shouldn't have to not talk about your kid on a business Zoom call. But like if I'm on a call with this guy, I'm just not giving him a. a single inch to dismiss me in some way.

And so in that regard, like, mom's like from one mom to another, kids, am I right? Because we met my momath's daughter and she is tough. And I, like, the feminist in me wants to embrace that. Lean all the way in, ladies.

You can be moms on a Zoom man, run the galaxy. But, like, I think, I think that this was the wrong strategic mood on this particular call. That's what I think. Interesting. My response to this was almost purely

Mon Mothma is the House of R. She's just like, here's rebels reference after rebels reference. I was surprised she didn't ask how Zed's cabin smelled. And Ziona is the watch. He's like, can we move on to something I'm interested in? I don't want to talk about Chris and Andy's take here,

but I mean, you comparing them to a terrible senator from Hosni and Prime. I'm with absolute love for two of my favorite humans in the world. I can know myself. Tremendous people. Quick. It's this is the,

contextually, from the context, this is apparent, but we should say, Hera and Monmothma go way back. Like, in addition to obviously just waging the rebellion together and all the stuff we didn't see, we do get some sequences in rebels, where the specters are helping to rescue Monmothma,

get her from point A to point B, they're there when just Monmothman saw her, gigantic floating hologram head, are screaming at each other about the right way to wage a rebellion, etc. So they've been, they've been through it. And very crucially, Ezra saves Mom Mothma's ass with his flying. So like if the question is, does Mom Mothma owe Ezra anything? The answer is yes, she does.

Just saying, Mon. Yeah, it's a tough scene for our girl, Mon Mothma. She has many tough scenes. She is the queen of tough scenes. No, there's a line she says to Ezra in Rebels. She says, this is a time of difficult choices, sometimes impossible ones, is something she says to Ezra. See that on her face. She's probably thinking about that when she denies any help.

She's like, well, I hope Ezra remembers that time I told him that there. He knows my stance on tough choices. That's impossible. I warned him, you know. Incredible. So Harrah tells them. Here's why I sent the Calum fight. I've made an alarming discovery on Corellia.

Senator Rodrigo, not concerned. All the folks he came across, they're outliers. We've got former imperial workers everywhere, and guess what? They've all pledged oaths of loyalty. and no one in the galaxy has ever lied once. Harris replied, and this was one of my favorite lines of the episode. I thought this was so funny.

Long live the empire doesn't sound like the kind of loyalty we're looking for. She's right. She tells him something is a foot, Joe, right? A larger threat is looming. Got reason to believe that Thron is alive and well. His minions are on the hunt. I would like to be on the hunt, too.

Will you sanction my mission? Can I take the fleet? To go look, to see what's, just to see what's what? Take a little peek. Take a little gander. Ziona's reply to this is frankly astounding. Well, is it?

This is the question. I feel like people are really split on this. Because I've seen some people say, you know, it is, like, deeply unreasonable of these senators to deny were here, O'Hara, these things she needs.

We know that we're on the right track for Ezra because we know an actor has been cast to play him in this TV series, Asoka. But how many times did she ask for resources to look for Ezra Bridger or someone that is like presumed? I know, exactly. Personal quest. So, yeah.

So, like, how many times she used resources for something that hasn't come through? So that's one. I mean, I am, if I'm a senator, I'm obviously giving Hara the resources. Like, I would. But I'm just sort of like, I don't know. Like, if you don't know, Ezra, if you didn't fight in the war, which we find out that he did not.

Like, and this seems like a hopeless, like almost like quixotic quest of, of Hara's to find this boy, this man. Maybe. And then on the other hand, I've seen some people around. I'm playing a boy in hollow flashbacks, yes. I have seen some people bristle against Hara flaunting her war record in front of this guy as a sort of like, who-rah, if you didn't fight, you don't have an opinion sort of thing. So I don't know. This interaction is like a real sort of, you know, inkblot test for people and I think how they think about governmental oversight or veterans.

and they're, you know, I don't know. It's really interesting to me. Okay. So here's my, I'm fascinated by this. Here's my counter argument. The Harrow line, I assumed, asking if he served, I assumed that people would bristle at that.

My read on that, just because of what we know about Hera, is that she's not a character who thinks that you are beneath esteem or consideration if you weren't on the front lines of the battle. It's that she knows this guy is like a fence-straddling bureaucrat who isn't actually

interested in the things he claims to be interested in, which is the good of the people, right? But in terms of the, like, is it sensible or valid to fuel what they might have reason to think by this point is like a, the hera who cry loathful quest?

Yeah. Nice one. Yeah. Here's my counterpoint to this. If Hara were the only person saying these things, that would be one thing. But what is the context of this conversation? I was thinking of our guy, Carson Tava, in the Mandalorian, who for multiple seasons has been beating this drum about the imperial remnants and how dangerous it is to wait, right? He said there's specifically in season three that line to tuttle was on my mind.

Like by the time it becomes big enough for you to act, it'll be too late. So people are saying something is happening out there that you're not paying attention to. And so the Thrawn mention in particular. Many people are saying. Many people in the Mandoverse are saying. But I think you're conflating two things because it's one thing to say, hey man, let's take what happened on Corellia seriously. That's one issue. And then that way I am all in.

on all in with Hara. And it's another to be like, also, can you allocate some funds away from the you know, the education budget for me to take more ships out to try to find Asher Bridger? I am puzzled by her strategy of asking, as is

Sabine later, like, why did you go ask for this to be like an official mission? And she's basically like, I have to. Like, well, I have to play by the rules. But at the end of the day, she's going to the Senate committee and saying, there's new evidence that Thrawn is back. There's a credible threat

that the guy who could unite the forces. Like, okay, Senator Mawood says that people don't want conflict. Rodrigo says the imperial remnants have no centralized command. And Hara is specifically responding to those retorts. She is saying the thing I am telling you is the threat. Like you're saying that there's no way that they could be stitched together,

but like the guy who could do it is here. Now, here's the other thing, and I think we have to acknowledge this. It is impossible for us to Star Wars viewers, even though we're two decades away from the Force Awakens still in the timeline, if, or is, where are we in time? Who the fuck knows?

Force Awakens is set in 34 ABY, right? Yeah. We're a long way away from, obviously, the First Order has, like, a mass considerable strength has built Star-killer base. It's not like they just, like, popped into existence that day.

But still, know the New Republic loses. And so I guess for me, I think the points of reason you're completely valid, but like, this is, it's hard for me not to read this as another snapshot of the New Republic's inadequacy at like taking seriously the threats around them. Well, and the fact that they named it the shadow counsel, Joe, and everyone's like, we're not going to look. They're not looking in the shadows. They don't want to. And Mon again and again does this. Like, she does it. road one, right? When people are refusing to take

Gin Urso seriously and she says without the full support of the council, the odds are too great. Like, I can't give you the things you need. So this is the Mon Motha M-O. Putting the Mo and Mon is this, right? So like, I'm sorry, I don't know.

Let us do with anything. I want to spit my sip of water like all over my pod kit. That would have been rough. So like it's a tough like because we love monmouthma in Andor and in rebels but like we have to confront the fact that she is a politician and again and again she like returns to you know she comes to this conclusion in rebels where she's like the Senate is not going to fix this we're going to have to this other thing she is a pacifist almost to a fault we we talked about this a lot when we covered andor

I thought we got a really interesting email from Eve about also other ways in which Mom Mothma may be compromised in ways we're not thinking about. Oh, you got it. Is this from my beloved Eve or another Eve? I don't know. I don't know. This is also a wonderful Eve. And Eve wrote, when we last saw Mom Mothma in the season finale of Andor, she was introducing her daughter to the son of Davos Golden, muddied interests from Shander. Palpatine wasn't the only one sustaining the empire.

There had to be wealthy interests that prospered by the empire. How deep will the investigation into the corruption on Karelia go after Asoka leaves the planet? By only arresting the workers, the leaders are free to eventually arm the first order, gamble at Kanto, Biden, The Last Jedi, etc. Maugham may have saved herself an early rebellion, but her alliance with these interests may limit how she can crack down on them. She doomed the New Republic because imperial sympathizers can hide in the what Mallory's shadows. So while her end in season one of Andor doesn't seem like much of the time, it may speak to the future and the compromises that will be made. So maybe this is, maybe what they're setting up in Andor, this like familial connection she's going to have to this very shady moneyed source explains why her character goes from at least somewhat effective to, sorry, my hands are tied. We don't know that for fact. We don't know what's going to, but like, that could explain sort of, the evolution of her character and make it not seem like hard to reconcile between the two, but like just another way in which Mon Mothma is trapped and, you know, by her circumstances.

Interesting. Yeah, I'm so fascinated to assess over time how the Luthin effect has lingered and what counterweights have either amplified it or canceled it out in some way with Mammoth. this character. I was thinking about within this whole scene, you know, we've chatted in some of our preview pods about the new canon, Timothy Sond Thron novels, and then the Legends canon, the heir to the empire novels, and like, what might be pulled in from those, even though the character sets are different than the ones who will be featured in the Mandoverse timeline. When I was thinking of a, watching the scene, a Han line from Air to the Empire, it was a very frustrating,

meeting with a bunch of politicians. And he tells Leia, you know, it was a lot easier back when we were just taking on the empire, at least then we knew who our enemies were. And like that kind of energy is very present in this scene. Like, can you actually trust your nominal allies to be fighting the same battle that you are, to even recognize that your battle is real? That's a fascinating tension to watch play out over this next stretch of canon. And it's a really interesting challenge that, I mean, I don't know exactly who to lay this at because I'm sure J.J. Abrams didn't like come up with the first order without checking it with a story group, et cetera. But the fact that like because in the sequel trilogy they want to mirror the original trilogy, they have to say, guess what? The New Republic fails. Somehow the New Republic fails.

That's what you're going to say. Somehow the New Republic fails, right? And so it is up to Faloni and Fabro, et cetera, in the Mandal. We talked about this already, but like in the Mandalorian and in the show to show us what somehow was. So conversations like this are part of the somehow. And hopefully it all will feel coherent at the end of the day, this like slow descent into fascism.

Let's call it what it is. You know, the boots are jacked. It's fascism. I know that we're not going to try too hard to figure out exact timeline stuff, and I know that we are not going to drive ourselves absolutely crazy trying to anticipate and guess when certain things might happen. But you noted already the buzz around episode five. I'm curious based on a particular line in this scene, which, Carlos, let's actually hear.

Thron is not your typical imperial officer. I know because I find. against him. He killed friends, people who were like family to me. I've spent most of my life fighting a war, and that's why I'm trying to convince you to help me prevent another one. Okay, here's my question for you, Joanna Robinson, first of your name. How many more times can we get a line like this? And as you know, the first time we got a line like this, I was like hyperventilating with glee. Like, I can't believe we're hearing characters say these things out loud and then New Star Wars Stories. How many more times can we get a line like this before we actually

see Grand Admiral thrown in the show? I think we're just, we're going to be. I think we're we're running out of real estate, right? I don't know about that. I mean, I don't know. I was sort of with you that it's like midseason, probably, like, episode five, something like that, but I could see him just showing up at the end of the season. I don't know. If we're, if we're leading up to a Thrawn movie, if that's what we're leading towards,

then maybe Thanos like, we only get him as a stinger for the first couple stories, you know? Thanos was a cameo for the first couple times that he appeared. So maybe that's what I'm going to do with Thron. I hope we get more Thron than that, but it is, I will be, I will be real. It's pretty easy to imagine Thron coming in and being like, fine, I'll do it myself. Yeah. Great comp. You might be on to something.

Okay. Tough meeting has concluded. It didn't go the way Harrow wanted. But guess what? Sometimes someone runs along. to brighten your day. Is that Jason Sindul? For folks who have not watched Rebels,

yes. We get to learn a fascinating thing about interspecies biology in the form of Jason Sundula, because Jason Sundula is the son of Harrison Dula, who we've met, played by the lovely Mary Elizabeth Winstead, and Canaan Jaris,

played by, voiced by Freddie Prince Jr., but he just looks like a guy. He's just a guy. Just a guy who goes out with a regrettable haircut. Just a guy. And so as a result, we get Jason Sundula, who just looks like a guy, but his hair is green. Crucially, his hair is covering his ears. And in the epilogue of rebels, he had kind of like slightly pointy, green-tipped ears. So, like, they're not committing as to whether or not they're doing the ears in this.

But so if you're wondering what a, what a twilic, green twilic bio mixed with Freddie Prince Jr. produces, it's just a kid with, with green hair. But the kid with green hair appears to be wearing like a mini version of Canaan's signature paltren, which it made my heart melt in a way that I can barely articulate

even though we are quite literally professional podcasters. And our job is to say how things made us feel and what they made us think. And I'm like, I can barely find the words. It was just, it was so cute. And hearing him say, I mean, obviously chopper is right there with them.

We get some classic disgruntled chittering and warbling from our guy chop. And to hear Jason say, Mom, is it true, Aunt Sabine is going to be a Jedi? Like, Aunt Sabine, that's just like, it touched me so deeply to think about her role in his life and how these characters had remained present for each other. And then when he says, I want to be a Jedi. and Hara just looks at him and she's obviously we know she's thinking about Canaan and she says yeah I know you do Jason it's just like absolutely heartrending and I was thinking about when we meet him in that rebel's epilogue what we hear from Sabine is by that time there had been a new member added

to the crew of the ghost spectre seven Jason Sindela born to fly just like his mother and well we all know what his father was like. So that certainly seemed to be hinting at force sensitivity, right? Like at Jedi prowess. But I think we would be remiss not to mention who his namesake is, which is Jason Solo,

fabled, fell to the dark side character for legend's canon. The tone of his arc went to Ben, to Ben Solo, to Kylo, right? So, let me fail to meet your energy on two fronts right now.

Number one. Bring it. Yeah. Much like Grogu before him, we are now forced to act as was Jason Sundula trading at Luke's Jedi Academy when Kylo Ren killed everyone? Oh, my God. Did both Jason Sedula and Grogu die? I can't allow it. By the hand of the Knights of Rent.

Okay. Follow up question. What the fuck? On the cross-teases front, what do you think it would look like if a human had a baby with a wookie? Is that like, are they like Robin Williams? You should ask Maas. Just like lusting after Chewy. I like that wookey.

I like that wookey. It's my boyfriend. Where, what do you think it would look like if Maas Kanata and should we decide to have a baby? These are questions I have. A very, very hairy baby probably. Right? Yeah.

So you're saying the humanoid. With corrective lenses. A hairy baby with corrective lenses. It's scared to shut out of each that. I do need to ask you a serious question, Joanna, which is, would you, would you entrust Chapper to babysit your child? If so, why? If not why? If I'm here, yes. Where are you on this? We've already talked about the, okay, important update, actually. We got from, we got from a person who would know, but has asked to remain anonymous. We got a follow up, a comment on our

Dave Filoni cat guy discussion from last. week from we're going to say redacted Dave Filoni has a dog and he brings his dog to set. So But that doesn't mean Both is fine.

No, no, no. But all it means is that we need to reopen the like, is Grogu a dog or a cat situation? Because it's not just like... Grogu is a cat. We don't need to reopen shit. I agree with you. I'm just trying to be fair and balanced.

Anyway, um, the other thing. No. If Chopper is like my cat, which it seems like he is, which is like an absolute menace to society hates everyone except for me. And that sort of seems like Chopper hates everyone except for Hara.

I would entrust, like if I'm Hara, I entrust Chopper with my baby. If I'm literally anyone else, I would not entrust myself, an adult person near Chopper. I might be pushed out of the airlock. So, no, if anyone else has a baby, don't give it to Chopper. But if you're Jason Sundula, I think you are the exception. Yeah. I would entrust chopper with my with my progeny. I think the chopper is, yeah, I think the chopper is just like a bass,

the murderer and has killed legions as we've chronicled at length, but is fiercely loyal, fiercely loyal and protective. I would probably, I would institute a don't go near the cargo bay, though. To anyone he knows and loves, you know? That's not true. He'll rip on Zeb and Ezra, but, and like, yeah, occasionally piece out in the middle of a mission, so he's gone when they need him, but like, then he's back. As I'll be like, Chopper is sure to pick us up any time.

And, he's like, I wouldn't count on that. And then Chopper is, like, chuckling evilly. Like, it's just. Yeah. No. Like, I'm not putting it. That he could forge. No?

All right. He's a one woman kind of guy. And that woman is Hera. And Hera has one child. And Chopper will make an exception for Jason, Zendula. Yes. Great stuff. Okay.

Should we talk about this next, Asoka and Sabide scene, which is basically them doing a podcast about how the force works. Yes. It's great fun. You mentioned Assoca as a potential podcast listener and also as a podcaster herself, but my question is, where do the headphones go on the Sokatano? Well, what about like an AirPods situation, you know? Just, I'm just saying it's complicated.

It's complicated. Sokatana, not filled for headphones. We're going to talk about this scene and what it tells us about the, mission of this season of TV, what it tells us about these characters, etc. We will tease that, again, health and wellness permitting,

Ben Lindberg will be joining us later for his lore segment to focus specifically on some of the low M count characters, like weaken the force, who wound up wielding it. So we're going to actually get some character precedent insights from Ben later.

That'll be really fun. And if he's too sick to join us, Carlos will cut this line out of the podcast. And you'll never know what Ben was going to talk about. Tables back up. Table activated, Joe. Time to sit. Time to pod.

And Asoka has some positive reinforcement, some praise. She's telling Sabine that she did well, that it takes time. Now, again, by like all objective accounts and certainly by Hu Yangs, you could say things are going slowly. But I like that Asoka is trying to encourage and boost Sabine here. And Sabine is like, yeah, I know it takes time, but I was really hoping that based on, you know, gestures at everything, we could speed things up a little bit. And then we get the opening clip,

what we opened today's podcast with, this conversation where Sabine says, I can't use the force. I don't feel it not like you do. Now, we spent so much time in our preview pods, Joe, anticipating this, talking about this, speculating, frankly, like longing for this exact outcome and exchange where, you know, we talked a lot in last week's deep dive into parts one and part two about this idea across Star Wars canon and Star Wars

history that the force resides in all living things, that anybody can tap into it. We cited the George Lucas yoga comp from the early 80s. We talked about our beloved broomboy. We cited even some Sabine-specific examples like Canaan's line. from season three of Rebels about how you have to be open to it, but Sabine was blocked. We get to hear now,

these characters, Asoka and Sabine, take on Dave Filoni's mission of expanding our understanding of how characters and thus we as viewers or readers, consumers, Star Wars fans, understand the force

and can relate to it. How did it feel to watch this conversation? What did you think? I regret I'm here now to drop a word that we often avoid, but I'm going to talk about it. You love to say M count so that we don't have to say Mituarians. But I want to talk about midichlorians for a second. The quote from Quigon from the Phantom Menace, which I promised you a Phantom Menace, quote, here it is.

Yeah. And let's just provide the context. He is, you know, stealing a child's blood. Carry on. Yeah, yeah, it's great. So without the midichlorians, life could not exist, and we would have no knowledge of the force. They continually speak to us, telling us the will of the force. When you learn to quiet your mind, you'll hear them speaking to you. So we think about it that way in the quaggon way.

And I have another midichlorian thing to talk about in a second, but think about that way. you think about, you know, let's say my M count is two, as opposed to, you know, 20,000, 20K. Yes. Space Jesus himself, Anakin Skywalker. Yeah. I just have to turn my mind all the way down in order to hear those two Midiclorians speak to me, whereas Anakin doesn't have to turn the dial one single decibel because they're shouting at him, right? there's this great interview with Dave Faloni from 2016

where he also is going to say the M word. He says to me, when you talk about the force, the force isn't everything that's alive. That's what Obi-Wan says originally. And that's true. Even in the days of Midichlorians, which everyone is afraid to talk about, but I'm not. What that tells you is, when I was a kid,

I believe that everybody probably had the force and they just didn't believe. midi-chlorians actually prove that theory out. We all have them just to differing degrees. For a long time, I've used someone like Bruce Lee as an example. He has, if you like, a lot of talent for martial arts or a very high mid-chlorian count. If I train in martial arts, can I learn martial arts? Yes, I can improve my midi-chlorian count in that discipline. Will I be as good as Bruce Lee? No, that's not my talent. We were always able to find real-world equivalencies to Star Wars to make comparisons that make it feel like it's a real thing. When I talk about force sensing, I talk about when you're standing somewhere and you don't know, but you feel someone standing behind you. It's all extensions of those things on a much broader level. The Jedi and the Sith have one way of interpreting that. And so what we're here to talk about are the other ways to interpret that. And that is the path that Asoka is trying to forge for herself and sort of have Sabine follow.

her down the line, which is like, you can have two lonely little bit of Chlorians rattling around inside of you. And you can, if you are disciplined enough, you can still hear them tell you the will of the force. I love that he distilled that entire thesis statement down into that Assoca line. Talent is a factor between him focus or what you define someone's success. I was just right there in the show. And clearly, like, one of his mission statements, I love this so much. We really liked the idea that Asoka would do something different and, like, radical, and decide to train somebody who did not have the...

What Asoka had, right? What you cited earlier, the ability to connect with a predator in the woods and save herself when she was, like, literally an infant. But she is saying to Sabine, and I think where I am on this right now is maybe Sabine will learn to tap into the force. Maybe she will learn to wield it. And maybe she won't.

And the key is that Asoka is like, you didn't get your Hogwarts letter, right? It didn't come when you were 11. And it doesn't matter. Like you can go try off for the Quiddish team. You don't need your, You don't need to feel like you're a squib. You're not filch.

You can go to potions class. You can go sit in a squishy armchair in front of the fire in Gryffindore Tower. Like, you can still do those things. And I think that's fucking awesome. Like, that's amazing. I'm just really, I just think this is really cool. I'm really glad this is happening. You're not a wizardary, essentially.

But after enough trips to honey dugs, you might be. Yeah, exactly. Well, this is threading the needle of what we want it. Because we were like, we don't want to be into be force sensitive. to just suddenly be like a prodigy would have been. I think we can say now that we talked to someone in Lucasfilm and we were like, just who shall go unnamed? And we were like, we don't want Sabine to be force sensitive.

And that person didn't say anything, but the look on their face had is both going, uh-oh, like, oh no. Oh, no. And then she shows up and like is calling a Sukum master and she's calling her Paduan. And we're like, you don't want this, man. but I love this solution. Is she force sensitive? Yeah, we all are.

Very little bit, as Huyang will be the first to tell you, only a smidge. And that smidge is in all of us. The smidge is in all of us. So, you know. Put that on the merch, the smidge is in all of us.

I think that question, and this is something else. Use the smidge, Mallory. This is something else that Ben spent some time on in his column this week. Like, the question then is, or a question is why did Sabine decide she wanted this then?

And I think we have much more clarity on Asoka's perspective about it, which we'll talk about in a second when we're discussing the conversation that Asoka and Hu Yang have up in the cockpit. But from Sabine's perspective, like we don't actually know. My feeling is,

is this a desire to feel closer to Ezra to connect with him after he's gone in some way? Is it more broadly about... I mean, he does. Love her like a sister. A sister he wants to fuck. Yeah. Is this about finding some sort of new mooring,

like new bearings, new purpose? And, you know, we chat a lot about we love character on an arc. And you do such a good job across the different stories that we break down of identifying the risk of a character arcing out. Now, I don't think Sabine was going to arc out,

but I do think, Because some of the questions are, well, why would Sabine need this? Why does she want it? Like, she's got all these other things, all these other things that we spent all of this time seeing her excel out. And I'm not dismissing that. I think if we never talked about Sabine's prowess with technology or her love of explosives or her Mandalorian history, that would be frankly bizarre and like a disconnect from our experience with her that I would find like almost disqualifying for the new version of the continuation with the character.

But if we don't forget those things and they're part of who she is and then she decides that she needs something else in her life, like that just feels true to life to me. Like people don't only want one thing forever, right? So I'm eager to understand more about what her desires and goals and motivations are, but I don't have a hard time believing that she has them.

That's where I am with it for suburbia. Yeah. And we don't know them yet and I'm okay with that. The same way we don't quite know what like Baylon wants outside of power. What does that mean? Like, what are these characters' motivations? A power. I don't mind not knowing that in episode three of the series.

When we talked about that with Grogu, what does Grogu want? That was like in season three. You know what I mean? Like, that's different. That's a well-balanced meal. Pleased in. And a nap. Feed your fucking kid.

Puyang. Asoko goes up to the cockpit and he says, what did you think of her progress? This is a fascinating and rich conversation. Carlos, can we hear this? So, what did you think of our progress? She's frustrated. Still a challenge for her.

You both knew this wouldn't be easy. Well, what you said didn't help. I only spoke the truth. The Jedi order would not have accepted her. She is not an acceptable candidate. By their standards. Standards which were proven over a millennia. And failed.

You realize, historically, there have been very few Mandalians who ever became a Jedi. I don't need Sabine to be a Jedi. I need her to be herself. Well, I suppose you do come from a long line of non-traditional Jedi. In that way, she feels. It's right in. Instant pantheon conversation. We have so many things to talk about here.

I don't even know where to begin. Let's begin with, I need her to be herself. Which I just want to say I find distinct from the previous conversation of like, use your Mandalorianness. Don't abandon your Mandalorianness. And the reason I'm making this like, maybe it's just semantics. But I think there's a difference between like your heritage, your upbringing, where you came from, blah, blah, blah.

can be melded with your force training to create something even more powerful or potent. Be herself. To me, that's interacting a bit more with the critique we have of the Jedi Order that when it seems that the Jedi Order is asking people to suppress their wants and needs and emotions. Because we do draw the distinction between, and I have more to say on this in a little bit, it, but like we do, you've done a very good job about letting the distinction between attachment that is healthy and attachment that is unhealthy and that those distinctions are important when we're

talking about like attachments being dangerous. But I still think if we go back to like the Jedi order in the prequels at the height of their absolute blind fuckery, they were asking for almost total personality suppression to a certain degree from people. And that, and that is, that is even more dangerous than some of these other things. I completely agree. I think, like, this conversation cements that aspect of Soka, right? And so, again, like, then, of course, she wants that for the people around her who she cares about and who she's trying to guide.

Like, her intention not to be bound by the Jedi Way, by the past, to challenge it, is because she was shaped, her entire life was shaped by seeing the failures of that, not only the way it impacted her directly, everything with Barris and the framing and being expelled, her decision to walk away from the order, but the way that everything with Anakin is forever embedded in her mind. How could she not think about what impact that rigidity had on him and how things could have been different? If people had been allowed to, like, have relationships and explore their other interests and still then be good Jedi and people, peacekeepers in the galaxy, right? So for her to try to give that to another person is like a really

deeply meaningful thing. And I like thinking too, you, you called out in our first preview pod how few shots we had seen in the trailers of Sabine and her armor. And like you were, you were posing that question of like, what did that, what might that tell us? What should that prepare us for in terms of like where we'll find Sabine? And I think like that question of, I need her to be herself. It's like, well, first of all, that tells us that Asoka is not going to, would never dream of deciding that for somebody else.

Important, okay, but right, does Sabine know who that is right now? And I like, finding a character in that place because that's not a question you ask yourself once. So often we talk about that inside of coming of age stories because that's those formative years of figuring out who you are.

and Sabine is like in her early 30s. And I really like that she might be in that place. Like that's not a one-time thing in your life, right? She's been through so much. So of course that's that who am I and what am I doing and why? Who do I want to be is the place she's in. I think thinking about Sabine, I mentioned that I last week that I felt like she was given this sort of like

a Ray, a lonely girl kind of intro. And I think that when we compare Sabine in the, the first two episodes versus the sub bean that some of us know from rebels, you know, she's in the bosom of like her found family that includes hera, Canaan, Ez, Zeb, Chop. She has a clear purpose, which is this rebellion that she's a part of.

So you take away her purpose because the rebellion is, quote unquote, over, even though these things are cyclical. And, like poetry or right? Yeah, sure does. Canaan is dead.

Ezra is missing. Hera is busy with her job. And Jason Zeb is drinking in a bar with Carson Teva. And Chop is a psychopath. So like when you don't have, when you don't have your purpose and you don't have the people around you to reflect back at you who you are, it can be so easy to lose your connection to yourself. And that is where we're finding her here.

You know what I mean? She's got. you know, she's got this veneer of like cool rebellious chick who, you know, fucks with space cops and has cool hair and chip nails. But like, who she is at her core, she's missing that. And she's in search of that. Yeah. That helmet and that saber both were tucked away.

Tucked away out of you. And maybe, and maybe to go back to your like, why was she seeking this training out in the first place, maybe that was part of her trying to find. Mm-hmm. What is my meaning? What is my purpose? What is my place? Where do I belong?

Can I belong to this? I love that. Can we talk about one of the most important lines that we've gotten in the history of Star Wars? So good. Please. Wallop to me. You do come from a long line of non-traditional Jedi.

In that way, she fits right in. I want to hear everything you have to say about this. I thought this was like absolutely exquisite. What is the line? Sabine, trained by Asoka, trained by Anik. trained by Obi-Wan, trained by Quigon, trained by Duku, trained by Yoda. I have so many thoughts. Tell me all of yours. This was beautiful. This was wonderful. This taps

into so much of our precious Star Wars history. I love that it's reflective of what we were talking about before in terms of, like, Asoka's teachings and like how those teachings draw from Obi-Wan, from Anakin, from Yoda, and then in their own way because those people learn, you know, from Quigon. Quigon's in the room. is in the room, you know, and like, they're all there in the room, not literally, but figuratively. And I'm thinking a lot about Quigon. Um, because Dave, Dave, Diflone has some really interesting quotes about Quigon Jen. When you look bad at that flawed Jedi prequel era, Dave Filoni seems to think that Quigon is the only one who like had his head on straight. To be clear, stealing blood from a child and then also stealing that child from his mother, but. Yeah. And then leaving her in her. In slavery. Perfect circumstances. Yeah.

But here are some quotes as recently as 2020 about Quigon Gen from Dave Polone. He says, when you look at the Jedi in the prequel era, the one Jedi that has it most right is Quigon because Quigon understands that you can still love someone

as long as you don't try to possess them, as long as you can let them go, he is selfless. Asoka is on a selfless path. And because Quigon taught Obi-Wan, taught Anakin, taught her, that teaching isn't her. She gets the benefit of Anakin and Obi-Wan,

both of them teach her throughout the course of her life. And so she is the kind of nicely balanced view of things where a lot of Jedi, I don't think, have that. So Asoka's tied to all of that because she's making, but she's making her own decisions outside of those character arcs. But I have to look at the whole thing and piece it together and bring it to a conclusion here in these last 12 episodes. That was about the end of the Robles.

Or the Clomor's run. And then also this other quote about Quagon that I really liked. he says what's at stake is really how Anakin is going to turn out because Quigone is different from other Jedi you get that in the movie Quigon is fighting because he knows he's the father that Anakin needs. Quigon hasn't given up on that fact

hasn't given up on the fact that Jedi are supposed to actually care and love and that that's not a bad thing. The rest of the Jedi are so detached and they become so political they've lost their way and Yoda starts to see that in the second film but Quigon is ahead of them all and that brings me to last quote that I am going to read to you, which is from a book that you love, the Asoka book that you

love to talk about, where we get, Asoka's interpretation of this, right? So someone's taunting Asoka and saying, so hopeful that her Jedi friend would come for her. I had to tell her that Jedi don't have friends. Jedi don't have attachments of any kind. They're heartless and cold and don't even understand what love is. And Asoka says, I don't know, taught you about the Jedi, but they seem to have left out a few things. You should ask for better lessons. Um, so that, I mean, like, it gets lost along the way, but that core belief of Quigon Jan, who believed in the living force and didn't get along with the council and all this sort of stuff, um, makes his way into Asoka's heart, um, you know, through the missteps of

Obi-Wan, who denied himself his great love, and Anakin who twisted himself up over. his great love. And then you have Asoka, who is friend to all, has the biggest heart. I just, I love thinking about that lineage. And

again, to go back to Tales of the Jedi, I think that you know, unless you've exhort a bunch of supplemental material, you don't often think that much about Quigon as Duku's apprentice, but you get to see it in two of those Tales of the Jedi episodes,

and it is hugely impactful on who Duku is as a person. If anyone is interested in that aspect in particular, more time with Quigon and Duku and also, more time with Quigon in both the role of Master and Apprentice, the aptly named Master and Apprentice by Claudia Gray is a really, like, phenomenal Star Wars Readers. It's a great Obi-One book as well. You get to meet some other figures who are also like atypical in how they relate to the order or the rules of the force and the idea of attachment.

That's a great Quigon book. But like, yeah, I think that Quigon and Asoka are fascinating comps in a number of respects and like another moment in the Asoka novel that is just so deeply sad is when Obi-Won is lamenting that Quiguan is lamenting that Quignt. Quigon wasn't the one who got to train Anakin and like would things have been different if he had. And so like what you're highlighting gives us the other side of that, which is like everything that Quigon passed on past on what you have learned, right? To Obi-1 made it to Anakin, made it to Asoka. And I think that's a, that's a beautiful way to think about these connections over time. I also loved this line from Huying because inside of one exchange, inside of one conversation and like one sentence, you have. this duality that I think is so crucial to understanding these characters,

we reinforce how singular Arsoka is, how the individual, like, how that individuality charted this particular course for her. But then also how linked she is to these other people and you're like, well, do those ideas make sense together? And the way that they do is what makes it so interesting, right? Because like she's linked to other people who are also particular in their own fashion. They're people who, their characters who challenge some sort of norm or convention. Some of them are light side wielders.

Some of them are the fall to the dark side. Some of them are gray Jedi. Some of them stray. Some of them err. A lot of them are defined by some sort of like restlessness or a passion that needs to be channeled. She's a wanderer. We talk a lot about Asoka as a lone wolf, right? I like the idea of a lone wolf from a line of lone wolves

and how sometimes a lone wolf decides it wants to be in a pack. And sometimes it doesn't. And like what is the thing that unites them? Like they all want to howl at the moon, you know? And that's how I think about these characters. So I just really, really, really loves this conversation. I thought it was just great. Should we talk about the dog fight?

We got a lot of action here. A lot of battling up in space. First we need to talk about this cup before. we go. Like Sabine, the comedy with Sabine and the cup, like trying to make the cup work and then getting interrupted. And her saying you win this round. Like, Natasha's delivery of that line is so funny. And then like, um, the reverse shot of the cup is incredible. And what's, and what's even funnier to me is I was looking at that. And I was like, that looks like a Heath ceramics cup. Heath ceramics is a Bay Area company. And then I like Googled it. And I was like,

that is a Heath Ceramics Cup. Like 100%. Beautiful earthenware, you know, ceramic. Right in Lucasfilm's backyard? Right in Lucasfilm's backyard. He's ceramics, for sure. The reason that Sabine has to break away from the cup is because Hara calls with an update about how she's not going to be able to join. The fleet isn't going to be able to join.

The transmission cuts out because they're jamming the signals. They've arrived at the Danab system. I have a question for you. Is this the last of C of Hara? No. I think she's going to go rogue. say they didn't sanction the mission, but I'm showing up anyway. She's going to come in with the ghost.

I'm calling it. Okay. This put this down as a thing, though, actually, I try to keep an open mind. I'll be incredibly disappointed if this doesn't happen. So she shes up with the ghost. So like, let's say Morgan and company take off with the I of Sauron and they're gone. And they're like, oh shit, we miss our ride. Yes, exactly.

And then here comes her and their, and their chick is like unusable. Yeah, it's kind of toast, right? Exactly. So she shes up with the ghost. and they follow the pergles I've seen the ship before. Yeah, let's go. Okay.

Has to happen. But if she doesn't. Right? You don't. But if she doesn't. Are you racing for it? Or are you at the point where you actually think we won't see her again? It's tough.

No. You know, I know nothing. I have no spoilers. It's zero spoilers. I don't even think there are spoilers for this show because Lucasum is so scary. But like, going off of like, trailers. stuff and skip ahead if you don't want to hear discussion of trailer stuff.

The only footage this left is like fighting that we think is going to happen next week because it's in the woods that's right there. It's like the fighting in the woods and then like the two shots of Thrawn. That's it for remaining trailer footage. So the rest of the series is a black box. Wasn't there a shot with Hera in a ship with them at some point?

In one of the teasers? Like the commercial length trailers? I don't think so. I don't think so. Hobbitson drag is Gmail.com if you know what Mallory is talking about but like I don't think so. I'll check after we finish

recording. I have something in my memory but it's entirely possible I imagine. It might have been something that was like deceptively edited like seeing her.

That's possible. Yes. You know, like we've seen her fly and then like and then we cut to them and other seats and it seems like

they're all the other hand that's probably that you're right. My brain is always ready to be duped by a trailer by a big IP. I think I'm just I think I'm just worried.

that hera isn't coming. Okay. That would be tough. I mean, if we're in Peridia for like four of the remaining five episodes, it's possible. But I'd like to think she'd be there with them. Well, I guess the other question is, like, if she doesn't go to Peridia, let's just say she doesn't go to Peridia. I don't know. Is there stuff for her to do?

Check him back in? Left behind, you know? Yeah. Meanwhile, this is what Hara and Jason are doing. Maybe. Yeah. We spent an entire fucking episode on course. in season 3 of the Mandalorian

with characters who were not featured in the show. I think we can swing or return seen with hair at some point. Dave, don't fail me now. We love when the ghost zooms in out of nowhere. I will say that's the other. Okay, you know what?

Here, now I'm calling the shot. It has to happen literally for the merch. And this is how I'm going to sway you because you're always a merch conspiracy theorist. We actually haven't seen the ghost. We've seen the phantom. They have to put the ghosts in the show so that they can sell the Lego show. Okay.

Boom! I hope you're right. I'm just mentally preparing myself. All right. For the worst. Because when the sudden it's like, no, you can't go, I'm like, what if she can't go? This appearance will be the achievement of a lifetime for the ghost. For the ghost.

Okay. Okay. Meanwhile, they dropped down. Yeah, they dropped down and we're near in Cetus and they're a little far away so Hu Yang tells them there's something, something looming on the other side of the planet but he can't quite

idea it yet. Curious to ask you, Joanna Robinson, we know what this is going to be. We know it is going to be the eye of cyan. So did the structure of this episode where the back half is built around the characters

moving toward learning something that we already know feel a little too inert for you? We did get an email from listener Christina, who wrote, in this most recent episode, I felt like the plot moved forward very little. The only thing that was achieved was Asoka now knows how Morgan and company are planning to reach Thon. Thron, did we need 37 minutes? I mean, actually like 29 minutes, but did we need 37 minutes of mostly dogfighting to learn

that? Enjoyed the first two episodes a lot, but the third left me. unsure. And I think as I mentioned at the top, before I did the rewatch and was really like digging into the parsing of some of those conversations that we spent an hour and 49 minutes talking about so far.

I felt similarly where I was like, what do we do? What did we accomplish here? But so I think, and then I think the dog fighting, which is never my favorite part of Star Wars, but is a staple of Star Wars. So I'm never going to like say like, what is this doing here?

is there to just be like, hey, it's Star Wars, let's have a dog fight. But I don't know. How did you feel? Yeah, I wonder if this would have, again, just like with literally one other scene. I mean, I guess we get confirmation beyond what we knew. You know, we knew the I of Sion was there. We knew it. They were building it to go find Thron. We get the confirmation of the hyperspace ring and the power and how fast and far it can move.

The Pergill connection, et cetera. things that we had theorized and speculated on, so none of it is like, oh, my God. I can't believe we've learned this definitively. And yeah, so that is a little bit strange. I do wonder if we had had just one more scene after maybe Asoka and Baylon coming face to face even. And it hadn't been the end point,

if that would have felt a little less pronounced. But I did enjoy the dogfight. Let's talk about it. Okay. A few different phases of this aerial comment. bet. Shinn, Maruk, and their attack team have activated.

And Sabine hits to the tailgun and finds that her presets have been removed. This is a true sign of a rupture. This is like a real you are out of my life move. And I know you don't mean it literally, but I would be

remiss on how Savar contains adult content. If I didn't reference this one line from a listener and when we got, JJ wrote in, a truly tremendous and sophisticated email about Asoka and Sabina's foils, but I'm only going to include this part, which is JJ wrote, Sabine telling Asoka,

you never did make it easy for me, master, has surely sparked a boom in a specific kind of fanfic, right? Or was it just me who gulped when I heard that? Oh my God. Wow. Hobbiton Dragons is Gmail.com if you have written fanfic about Asoka and Sabine.

I have to be honest. And this will maybe shock you, Joe, because this is, maybe the first time I haven't considered whether two characters want to fuck each other. Didn't occur to me? Did it occur to you? Also, normie, but I like the cut of JJ's jib. And again, I'm this drag into Gmail.com, you've written Assoca and Sabine fanfic. I'm sure it exists.

Great stuff. Okay. So the fight commences. Sabine's asking Assook, hold a show. ship steady and Asoka's trying to use this as a teachable moment, says, remember, learn to anticipate. And Sabine replies, now is not the time for a lesson. And I enjoyed this contrast because you know, Anakin would think that the peak of battle was the ideal time for a lesson. And of course, Osok's introduction to us and to Anakin as his Padawan came in the middle of a battle that Anakin

and Obi-1 were losing during the battle of Christophis. So that is her experience. So that is her and needing to recalibrate to okay. That worked for me, but it's not right for Sabine is important. Let's shift this to Sabine's domain. This is an area in the tailgun of a ship surrounded by tech and weaponry where Sabine should feel right at home. And so the fact that she actually is uncomfortable and like missing her shots, that tells us something.

Hu Yang rips off another, just instant classic. I have several thoughts on everything else. going on. And Asoka's pausing and she's thinking and she's processing and then she says Sabine,

tell me what you need. She is letting her Padawan lead. I'm sure that everyone watching thought of the same thing we did, which was Asoka telling Luke in the book of Boba

Fadavion in Laud chapter six, sometimes the student guides the master. So this is for Sabine, yes, but also it's for Assoca, right? It's for them together. If you thought that I was done referencing one

Quigon Jin on this podcast, you were incorrect because in the Phantom Manet, Quigon says to Obi-One, you're a much wiser man than I am, and then in Tales of the Jedi, we had another reference of Tales of the Jedi, Duku says to

Quigon, you're a much wiser man than I, Quigon, Jin. So like, Again, this is another example of like this lesson coming down through the generations of masters and apprentices to Asokatano. Can I tell you who I was thinking of here in addition to? You weren't thinking of Duku. You're not always thinking of town Duku. And Osoka and Grogu. I'm often thinking about Duku, to be honest.

I was thinking about Mance Rader and our guy, John Snow. And I was thinking of Mance telling John the freedom to make my own mistakes was all I ever wanted, which. is one of my favorite exchanges in Thrones. And the reason that was on my mind is because, like, I thought it was a little tiny stroke of genius that after Asoka says that to Sabine, and Sabine tells Asoka what she needs and they do it, Sabine misses every shot.

Now, she'll eventually hit them, but the immediate, the immediate effect is a miss. And that's actually how you build trust with each other, right? Is, like, trusting that if you fail that, other person will still be there. Right. Assoca doesn't say... ...the room and permission to make mistakes.

Yeah. Assook doesn't say you had your shot. You blew it. You blew it. She encourages her. Yeah. Yeah. I love it.

I just thought that that was wonderful. And the way that Sabine when she does hit the mark finally, like, just is so gleeful and jubilant in her celebration and Asoka smiles. And like, we get to see how they're forging that trust and bond again in real time was was really great. It's time to put eyes on the eye. It's time for a little dance and stuff. Space always makes me think a Wally when I think of a space dance.

Wally. Eva. Joanna has attempted to Ron Burgundy me by putting the word Sauron in front of Sion in the Google Doc. And here's the thing. I'm just going to start saying I have Saran and then you won't have to do this. It's just, it's going to happen. So here we are we are. When the eye comes into view.

Cool looking shot. I thought this sequence in general was incredibly cinematic. And this episode, I don't know if. it's like because it's space and not a building or a landscape or something, but it didn't feel like this was made in the volume to me. It looks quite sprawling and impressive. Speaking of impressive shots, Morgan has one for shin. There is some palpable tension between these two. They both get off a knock on the other. Morgan's is here. I'm surprised you let them get this far. Stay clear. I shall deal with them. And then this is where we hear Marook speak for the first time

when Shinn gives me the order to stay on her wing and hang out, as you wish. We're going to circle back to that in theory corner, maybe. Wait, is your theory, is your theory that Muruk is Wesley from the Princess Bride? As you wish. Is this the Dread Pirate Roberts? Is that we're dealing with? Absolutely fabulous. I love that.

Can we do a Princess Bride pod at some point? That would be great. Yes. Like every day after school? All the time. Yeah. I would watch it. It was one of the movies in rotation every other weekend at my dad's.

I would watch it constantly. I thought I knew the Princess Bride back and forward, which I do. But I was, I remember one day I was like with a friend of mine and he pulled this incredible trick where he put on the Princess Bride and he turned around and faced me. And he said every line and every caption. It was like, sheep's bar and like all this or stuff. And I was just like, he's like, I've seen this movie so many times. Wow. I was like, my guy.

Impressive. I know nothing compared to you. Did you say that you can do that with season four of Stranger Things? In all of those very particular descriptions of Bechna? The RU.S. distends wetly. So Morgan orders, Turboblazers active, and they start to fire, and then our pals fly right into the teeth because Hu Yang needs his data.

Now, some people took issue with this, and I'm curious if this body, you that our pals in the T6 were making their way right into the into the fire. I mean, they're sitting ducks no matter what. Like, where are they going to hide? There's nowhere to hide. So, like, is there only shot to get, like, the data that they need from Hu Yang? By the way, that does not wind up being very helpful. But, you know, their ship is taken out of commission completely. But yeah, could have got another way. It looks, to your point, it looks absolutely beautiful. When the T6 is, like, dead in the water and by the water, I mean space and the debris is just sort of like trailing behind it.

It's gorgeous shut. Very, very cool. This felt to me like running into the hail of bullets is just such a, uh, anakin, a quintessential, Anakin, Asoka,

Ezra Sabine move like for just all of them that this is kind of what, what I expect them to do. So I didn't mind it. Even though I will acknowledge, of course, that Sabine is like, are you crosswired when New Yang says to do this? So it's not like she thinks it's a good idea.

That shy you mentioned of the T6, rendered dead in space. It knocked out Hu Yang as well. Sabine is very concerned. And Asoka, who famously, dare I say infamously, did not give Sweet Buba the Loth cat a chin rub also does not have time to fix Yu Yang

and literally says prioritize Sabine, which I thought was so funny. Next time, like my cat interrupts one of our Zoom sessions and I am like, you know, snuggling bug instead of paying attention. Will you say prioritize, Joanna? Priority?

No, I mean, if I did, you'd know that I would mean focus on bug because our beautiful cats are always the priority. So this is where we get the rejoinder from Shin, who says, Morgan, congratulations.

You almost got them. I love this. A real dramatic pro pause there. Congratulations. She paused long enough for Morgan to throw herself a little party on the bridge. Morgan's like, yes! Oh, Joe, you're a famously huge baseball fan, and you've been actively following the likely A.L. Pennant winning O's for a couple weeks now. So I'm sure this was your thought as well.

When I was watching this, I was like, she has. Yeah, I know he's like what you're saying. she reminds me so forcefully of like a real hot shit can't miss prospect who's spent her whole life like hearing how special she is and then doesn't want to listen to the coaches

and Ben McDonald who's in the Orioles booth he has this great line that he breaks out sometimes where he says this is just good old fashion country hardball my best against your best and that is shin's vibe completely And then Assoca and Sabine took her yard.

They took her deep. I just love this. Great stuff. What do you think is the source of attention between Shin and Morgan? What is this beef? Sexual. I think it's that. So they're mercenaries essentially at this point, right?

And I think this is something that, like, Baylon is doing because it serves something that he wants in the end, unlimited power, whatever that, whatever flavor that might. Limited power. Whatever flavor that might take. And we haven't, I don't know, I'm extrapolating completely.

But the vibe is sort of like, she's like, why are we, sabres for hire? This isn't really what I was promised when you said you'd teach me how to saber. Dad, we don't know if your father or daughter, I just get the vibe. We did get this email from,

uh, this listener, has been with me through thick and thin for years and years and years and years. And he is Icelandic and I never pronounce his name correctly. So I so apologize. But it's fairer. I think I butchered that. Anyway,

point out something that a lot of people have talked about and we forgot to talk about last week. We were talking about all different mythological influences on this very cool. Somehow in a 3 hour and 15 minute podcast, Joanna and Mallory forgot about the Iron Fleet and this. The Norse mythology. The fact that our characters are bailing Skoll and Shin Hati and Skoll and Hattie are the name of, famously the name of two Norse figures, figures from Norse mythology. And, you know, is that going to mean something? Is it not going to mean something?

Who knows? Is it just like a cool sounding thing that, like, nerd that, you know, Dave Filoni is. He wanted to put it in here. But in Norse mythology, Skoll and Hati are two. wolves that chase the sun and the moon respectively across the sky, causing the passage of days. During Ragnarok, they finally catch and consume their prey, darkening the sky. There's also a strong implication that they are children of Fenrir, um, iconic mythological wolf.

As a bonus, this also ties into Dave Flonny's obsession with wolves. What this specifically will mean for the series and Baylon and Shin's role in it? I do not know, but it's food for thought either way. So yes, never let a mythological reference go past. And I do apologize for letting you down and for butchering your name. I think in the context of the wolf canon here, we, of course, have to mention. and that part of, even though we will talk about Moroccan theory corner, part of what is fueling some Maruk theories is the,

the Surmeric Arthurian legend, werewolf tie. So wolf references abound. Shout out the loath wolves. Shout out doom. I love a wolf, as you know. Wolf guy. Dave Filoni, cat guy. Dave Filoni, dog guy.

Dave Filoni, Wolf guy. Dave Filoni, Animal Guy. Dave Filoni, Mallory Rubin, actually. Mallory, are you, is Dave Flonie actually you with a cowboy hat on? You think I could pull off a cowboy hat? I'm not so sure. I think it's unlikely. I'm happy to try, but I think it's unlikely to go well.

I love to see you try. I feel like you and I should dress up as Dave Polone and Georgia R. Martin, and I'll wear the little like railroad caps that George R. Martin wears, and you can wear the cowboy hat that Dave Polony wears. Let's do it. Let's do it. Halloween, 2023. Perfect.

Asoka Tell Sabine fix the ship and this is something that Savine is great at. Sweet spot. What is Asoka going to be doing? I'm going out there, she says.

Where's out there? Well, she's got to distract them and out there is quite literally the hull of the ship. Asoka puts on this custom space suit climbs out on the hall and fights the attackers in the vacuum of space.

Now, this was another one that raised some questions among some fans, like our beloved Ben Limber asked in his column, why would Shin and Co. Fire at Asoka instead of just firing at the ship and blowing up the ship, and that's a wrap. I would, and other questions arose as well,

there were also plenty of people who love this scene and thought it was amazing. There's Bug. You summoned Bug with your recent question. There you go. I thought that this sequence was a, not just like a nod, but like an active love letter

to this series. animated roots in a way that I thought was like really fun. This makes us think of so many other moments from other slices of Star Wars, many of which are also animated sequences. Asoka running down the different ships, almost like an escalator to try to sync up with Rex in the final arc of Clone Wars. Ezra slicing a mining guild tie while striding a pergul in season two of rebels,

the first canonical introduction of the Pergill. Bader standing on the tie, riding down to Malicorn in the season two, Rebels finale, Twilight of the Apprentice, Ezra and Sabine and co, fighting on top of the interdictor above Adelon and the season three finale of rebels. The twins from Star Wars Vision season one, that's not canon, but that's a great little short

where there's a battle out on the full of ships. And this next one's not in space, but when you're thinking of a character of force flipping and slicing the wing off of a ship, it's obviously impossible not to think of Ray

doing that to Kylo and Rise of Skywalker. What did you think of? What did you think of? I thought immediately of Ray for slipping in Rise of Skywalker,

a film we hate, but that was in the trailer and it just like looks so cool and I was just like, this movie's gonna rule and then it didn't. But that shot still looks really cool.

I will say this was not my favorite I think slicing the ship was incredibly cool instant BAMF territory for our BAMF extraordinary Asoka I thought the flip looked a little dumb

sorry but I thought the slice is very cool if she had if she had stayed planted and sliced cool it's the it's the you didn't like the going in front of the window

in front of the The windshield asking Sabine, did you fix the ship yet while she was floating in the vacuum space? That was pretty iconic. That was pretty great. I love that. I laughed. No, that was great. But it was just like the like cartwheel flip, the like slow cartwheel flip. Because like the, you just mentioned a bunch of nice moments. There's the like Leia sort of Mary Poppinsing her way through space. I feel like we're in danger when we put a character outside the ship in space and Star Wars. I'm not sure. They've always nailed it.

Boy, it's a story said in space. Yeah, to be out there sometimes, don't we? But we have space ships for a reason. Yeah. We have droids on the outside. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Typical you.

Let's send the droid out there instead of a person. Yep. Kliang was sitting right there. Fix him up, send him out there. He's, uh, he's, uh, as soon as he does power back on, uh, he's got a real tough moment coming. on the our droids people front. Real tough one.

Joanna. Yeah. It is time to talk about the pergill. Sabine scoops Asoka back into the ship. Now some eagle-eyed viewers spotted last week. We missed it. We missed it. As far as bailin was looking up.

It did not see that. As you know, I need corrective eyewear. I wear quite thick corrective eyewear. And I also did not spot it. Because here's the deal. I feel like people were looking for it because they're like, what is Bailin staring at? And I've been known to just stare at fog.

Like, I love to stare at fog. I'm a big fog fan. Mystical. Peaceful. Swirling. Yeah. Gorgeous. Wonderful.

I don't need to be looking at a space whale in order to gaze off into the foggy distance. But these clouds, this fog, positively Dr. Huian, as are the pergill, which is the thing I learned watching season five of Dr. Hu, which features a space whale. Yeah. So that was fascinating. Very, very, very, very quick, Pergall, canon four folks who are like, what are these creatures? Now, again, we glimpse them,

Grogoo glimps them very quickly in hyperspace, the beginning of season three of Mando. Here they are in full. They're a part of rebels. We meet them in the call, which is a season two episode. And basically, they're natural hyperspace travelers. We learn in rebels, they feed on gas. And we learn in rebels that

their ability is what inspired beings to develop this tech, to learn how to travel in this way. And one of the really interesting things about their introduction in Rebel season two is that they're feared and like not just in a vague way. Hera is like, they, I know people have died because of these creatures. And so through Ezra and his connection to the pergul through the force, we learn to think of them a different way. And the pergol are, the creatures.

creatures that Ezra calls in the rebels finale to spirit him and Thron away. And of course, we saw them the glyphs surrounding the other galaxy when the reflex point activated the star map last week. So here we go. They're hanging out. Maybe this is the home base in this galaxy. Maybe they're just passing through one of the many points. But obviously, they're traveling along this path here between galaxies and, uh,

Maybe they'll help our friends in an episode or two. And yeah, and Sabine is like, Purgles, that's a creature I haven't seen in a long time. Exactly. I've seen those creatures is the day Ezra disappeared. Before you made the really compelling case about the ghost showing up, which there is a ghost Lego set. So I am, I am considering it.

I was like, my theory was that Sabine and Asoka and Huyang were going to miss their ride and they were going to hop a ride just straight up with the Pergles. Like no ghost needed. Like, Pergill's going to pick up their broken ship and take them or something like that. I do feel like they're going to, you agree, but you think they're going to be inside the ghost when they catch a ride with the pergill. But like, could easily be the broken ship. It's possible.

It's possible. But it feels, I like the idea. of like Morgan because we know that the Pergles aren't fucking Morgan fucking Ellsbeth right so I like the idea of like

Morgan has to create this in the eye of Sauron in order to like get where she needs to go and the pergals are like I mean you could just we'll help these people ride with us yeah it's very like that you've said it that connection

to like the natural world yeah yeah that's like central for some of these characters so to be able to tap into that would be really wonderful witch would make those kinds of connections, but Morgan's not, Morgan doesn't strike me as that kind of witch.

So, yeah. This feels like it's going to be a class, just like we got the fairy tales for children. I mean, that was from Baylon, not for Morgan, but dismissing the purgle or viewing them maybe as an active threat instead of an ally and an aid would be a classic distinction

between our heroes and our antagonists. Sabine's flying, like navigating through the tentacles, of the burgle losing Shin and Maroccoor, again, force users and in theory could be using the force to find them when they power down

in the wherewood forest, when they're navigating, etc., best them in a way that, okay, maybe she doesn't realize yet, this has always been a thing across discussions of Star Wars, you know, the old, like, oh, is Han tapping into the Force, right?

Like, it almost felt like a force-aided flight on Sabine's part there. When... It's finally safe, Joe, down in that forest to power Hu Yang back up after Asoko. He's like, I've got a lot of work to do. And she's like, sorry. And switches him off, brutal. He shows them the scan, tells him it's a giant hyperspace ring, explains the hyperdrives.

It can take you very far. It can take you very fast. How far? How fast? Could it take you intergalactically? Joanna, the answer's yes. And we get another, well, he suspects the answer is yes. and we get another Jedi archive call out here.

And this is, of course, like, one of the great, brilliant strokes of deploying Hu Yang in this way across the show. Like, he's got all of this, he's the droid holocron. He's got all of this knowledge and all of this Jedi history in his mind so he can tap into it in a moment like this here. But, of course, Bailen in episode two, also cited the stories that they tell, that the children tell at the Jedi Temple. So, like, this question of what the connection is between Jedi history,

and Peridia, what is waiting in that other galaxy. It's just like so top of mind and intriguing here. I love this. If you watch Comores and Rebels or read a lot of the extended universe material, there was just like so much stuff in the Jedi archives, just sitting around a lot of like Sith artifacts, just like absolute like giving you strong. strong, strong, strong, restricted book section vibes in the, in the Jedi archives.

Two things, a couple things I want to say here. On the I have Sauron front, we got an email from Ryan. This is a pretty popular theory, I think, but like, why Morgan else is building this giant ring, needs all the drives, hop galaxies, is who Yang says. But a ring like that, usually, specifically in Star Wars, but usually in sci-fi and also in, you know, our own space exploration, is like a docking sort of situation for a ship. So is the ring going to hop galaxies, pick up the massive Star Destroyer, that a massive yet possibly broken Star Destroyer

that Thrawn and Ezra took, you know, to the galaxy further and further away and bring it back. I mean, it's not like we really need that Star Destroyer. We have other options, but, you know, that feels like they're going to bring something back with the ring. Can Dave Filoni resist bringing the chimera back. I'm not sure he can. Probably not.

And then Jay wrote this fascinating email that I have trimmed down, but it's still quite long. So I'm going to read the whole thing. Mallory and I are both equally enamored of it. Jay wrote this. Watching Assoca for my third viewing, the word peridia was stuck in my brain.

I'm a weird nature guy and it keeps some exotic bugs and reptiles. That's cool, Jay. And I rediscovered that peridia I rediscovered that Peridia is the genus of Moth. So what the heck does a Moth have to do with Star Wars? I'm so glad you asked. Knowing Faloni loves to draw inspiration from folklore, mythology, etc.

I pushed up my non-existent glasses, up my nose, dusted off my imaginary degree in entomology, and typed into Google, Moth Mythology. Incredible move, Jay. Love this for you. Well, says Jay, along with a connection to the story of the story. spiritual world is symbol for death and rebirth and messengers from the spirit world in Celtic mythology in particular. Hold on to your proboscis.

That's how you pronounce that. Moths are associated with goddess of war and fate. Morrigan. More again. There's also biblical references between moths and thread, not to mention that many species of moth literally spin silk threads. Morgan says things like threads of fate, fate has decided her next move, and Shin's what thread is she spinning? Those lines all feel like intentional dialogue.

You've already spoken about Celtic mythology in relation to Morgan, sorry, Morgan, Elspeth, and the Celtic witch's symbol on the map, yada, yada, but why specifically Pyridia? Nothing Dave Filoni does is unintentional, so I looked into what defines Peridia as a genus. I think he'll be interested in some of the subcategories, which could hint at Faloni's inspiration. Peridia have what is known as refracting superposition eyes. Balin tells Shint to inform Morgan that they have found the reflex axis. Essentially, the second lens reflects the image back as a beam, the idea that Ezra and Thron are stuck in a parallel

galaxy. Other defining quality of the genus Herdia is body symmetry, overall repetitive or reflective pattern in the body. These two, key components in defining peridia as a genus of moth have to do with reflection, symmetry, and parallelism. Now, does that mean we're going to get an exact parallel universe copy of our Star Wars galaxy that we are going to? Probably not. It would be parallel in location and nothing more. But given the connection between moths and the spiritual realm, I can even see the world between worlds being an alternative or parallel method of accessing peridia. I think it's at least interesting to see how deeply they are spitting the thread, or maybe I'm simply unraveling.

J. A plus email, J. No notes. No notes. We loved it. We loved it. Absolutely fantastic. Oh, my God. It's sensational.

Sensational. I thought it was going to be an email about Monmouthma at first. Because I just saw it in bold and underline moth. I meant to make a monmothma joke. And I think the subject to email is something like mythology, like mythology, but make it moths. Peridia moths are beautiful. if you want to Google image search them, they're absolutely gorgeous. So there you go.

Peridia. It's a kind of mom. Yeah. I can't wait to learn more about moths and paridia. We know that Baylon has dispensed his troops to find our pals nestled in the forest. Part four awaits. But before we get there, we have some allure to learn from Limburg. Ben, you're very ill.

we have tried but have failed to force heal you through the power of an internet connection. And yes, you are. Somehow, Ben, Lindbergh returned. Signed on to Zoom. We're just going to let you do the Lord's work here, Ben, and dispense your pearls of wisdom before you pass out. Go for it, man. What are you here to talk about today? Yeah.

If Asoka were here, she might describe my voice as enough to get by. And Hugh Yang might say, barely. But like Sabine, I'm going to give this my best. So I want to talk about Jedi without a ton of aptitude for the Force. There is some precedent for this in the current canon and in legends. So maybe the most directly relevant example from the current canon comes from a young adult short story anthology published last year called Stories of Jedi and Sith, which is very much what it sounds like in the title. And the first story by Michael Kogi is called What a Jedi Makes, which is Yoda speak for what makes a Jedi. And it takes place during the High Republic era, so hundreds of years before

the original trilogy. And it features a 14-year-old boy from the lower levels of coroscent called Loam Nara. And Nara is essentially a Jedi superfan. It's just what he wants to grow up to be. So he does Jedi cosplay. He steals the robes. He builds a a fake lightsaber with a welding torch. He pays for a blood test with fake midi-chlorian counts, and he shows up at the temple hoping to be trained. And eventually he has to do a demonstration of his force powers, which he does not have. He has some kind of parlor tricks where he can call the lightsaber to him, but the Jedi see through him. And so another Padawan is saying he's too old to be trained, even if he had powers. And Yoda says, too old for what? I'm not going to

try to do the Yoda voice, although this sounds closer to the Yoda voice than my regular voice, but Yoda says, too old for what, to learn over 600 years of age, am I and still a student, right? And then midichlorians come up and this 14-year-old acknowledges his low midichlorian count. Yoda says, midichlorians, you think midichlorians are what makes a Jedi? No, the force is what makes a Jedi, he answers. And that's the one thing I don't have. Yoda says, what do you mean? You don't have the force.

And he says, I can't call on it, not like you, not like her, the other Padawan. I can't summon a lightsaber to my hand without trickery. I can't read people's minds. I can't feel the force at all. I'm just ordinary. And Yoda says, then never a Jedi you will be if that is what you believe. So he's saying that it's more about the mindset, that if you believe that you can do it, then you can do it. If you doubt yourself, then you can.

And Yoda says, study you should. The Farseeker Lear, no great power had he. yet from his ink spring some of the Jedi's greatest texts for though the Jedi and the Force are won, the Force is not what a Jedi makes. And Lear Farsiker wrote one of the books in Luke's

library in the sequel trilogy that Ray saves from the fire. And so the kid says then what makes a Jedi? And Yoda says, that is something only you can answer. And he says, I want to be a Jedi, I believe I can be a Jedi. And that's that. Now, someone asks, what will he be? He's too old.

to train. And Yoda says more than knights, the Jedi order is watchers, stewards, caregivers also of these flowers, the grounds, our home, a guardian of the temple you can be, if ready are you. So it's kind of a qualified empowerment. It's like, yes, you two can be a Jedi. Janitor. Grandskeeper. Right. You get to maintain the Jedi shrubbery. Some free labor for the keeping the temple grounds looking clean. Samwise Gamji was a gardener. I was going to say Samuel Tarley, you know.

Proud to be a steward. It's watch. Right. So this is some precedent at least for, hey, you can be part of the Jedi, some part. And there are some Jedi, mostly in legends who were described as having weak or marginal force powers. So Zane Carrick in the Cotor comics or scout from the book Yoda Dark. rendezvous and maybe most notably Tian Solisar from the Jedi Academy and New Jedi Order and Fated the Jedi Books, who was one of Luke's first and most trusted students in legends and

became a master on his reconstituted counsel, not because of her powers, but because of her knowledge of Jedi history, sort of like Farsi Kirlir, kind of like Jokasta knew in the movies, right, who survives Order 66 and Papatine says she's the survivor who most scares him because she has all this knowledge of the Jedi and the Sith. So that's kind of the most common way to do this, right? I guess it's another Sam allusion, right, where it's, you can become a scholar, right? You can get your chains, you can just study all the old books, and you can know how to scrape grayscale off people, that kind of thing. So in canon and legends, turns out you just have to literally scrape it. Yeah. That's it. Right. Ancient technique.

Yeah, it's not the most glamorous work, but it gets you in the building. So in canon and in legends, if you aren't chosen to be a Padawan or you fail in your training, then you can join the Jedi Service Corps. So it's sort of a sorting hat situation. There's a reassignment council, and they decide, you get to go to the agricultural core, you get to go to the medical corps, you get to go to the educational core, or the exploration core. And the way it's described, it's hard not to see them as sort of second stringers, the replacement level Jedi, who just weren't quite good enough to be knights. They just get shunted off to these other areas.

It's kind of like we focus on the knights and the more martial Jedi. But this is like Jedi Doctors Without Borders or Jedi Teach for America or Jedi Peace Corps or Jedi Happedat for humanity. They're doing good. but it's just not quite as sexy. You know, Star Wars Kid is not pretending to be them necessarily. So what you don't have really in the Canon Nerd legends is someone with no natural aptitude who goes on to be powerful in the traditional ways. You might have Jedi who are cut off or cut themselves off from the force for a while.

And so they temporarily lose abilities that they can then regain like Calcestis or like Asoka or Canaan or Luke. at various times. And we know that in rebels, Canaan described Sabine as blocked. So it's possible that there's some latent ability she could learn to harness, but it doesn't seem as if she's ever felt that. And the Jedi who had more marginal abilities really had to work at it to keep up with everyone else. They had to just put more time in. It doesn't seem as if Sabine has put a ton of time in to this point. I know you've talked about the old George Lucas quotes about anyone being able to access the force.

There's the question of how much of midi-chlorian count is predetermined, how much is learned, can you increase your midi-chlorian count? Like growing a muscle? Is there an absolute ceiling and then just a natural range that you can enhance through hard work? Are the Jedi more like the Benjessor from Dune where they have to hone their skills, even if they have some gifts to begin with? Obviously, the fact that the Jedi tend to recruit their members when they're very young and that entails of the Jedi, we see a base. A.B. Asoka, already showcasing her connection to the force, suggests that some people are just born with it, but maybe that's more like a shortcut. It just means you can skip some steps, but the door isn't completely closed if you're not naturally gifted. As far as we know, this old slash new philosophy doesn't catch on. Doesn't seem like Luke's training a whole lot of underpowered Jedi

at his academy. But as for Sabine, the question, I guess, becomes what does she hope to accomplish? can she get to a point where this would help her defeat her current enemies? Because it's kind of a long way from being able to move this cup that is stymying her to maybe being able to take on these Dark Jedi or former Dark Jedi that she's tackling here. Ben? Thank you. That was wonderful. Thank you for paring all the way through to the fumes of your voice box.

Yes. I appreciate you. His word is right at the end of that. Yes, there are tears coming out of my eyes. There are tears of joy of getting to share Jedi lore with you. Time to fly. Also, I should mention, of course, you have someone like Churot from Rook 1, right? Who's maybe the best or most obvious comp and the order that he's a part of, the guardian of the wills.

Can't necessarily manipulate the force themselves, but. with training and reverence for the force, maybe can become aware of it and can feel it, if not necessarily shape it. So again, I guess the question becomes, what does Sabine hope to accomplish here? It doesn't seem like she is aspiring to be a Jedi librarian or scholar, probably, but we know she already has tons of combat abilities and other abilities.

She's very capable. So is this more about acquiring powers that she doesn't possess? Or is it more about mindset and centering herself and finding some sort of balance, right? Because if we go by the precedence, it would take her an extra long time to get to the point where she is suddenly using her telekinetic powers to fend off all of her adversaries here. Thank you, Ben. I don't quit. I never quit, as Sabine says. Maybe I should sometimes.

Take that, Canaan. All right. You're a legend. You're a hero. I made it. Thank you. The hero of the Republic. Hopefully I'll sound better next week. Did you know about one in three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriotic arthritis,

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You don't need WeatherTech floor liners in the summer, unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner. Or a road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those WeatherTech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud, you're in ever. going to step into the summer. You don't need weather tech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. This episode is brought to you by Sweetgreen. The day doesn't ask for permission.

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this already, is that the reason why I really like saying morok is it reminds me of when we were covering rings of power. We were saying, uh, instead of work. So, yeah, anyway. Sublime. Uruk. Rings of power. We had fun covering it.

Okay. Like 80% of our references come from that. Morok. All right. So there's so many theories flying around. This is really caught fire since we talked about it last week. Boy. Yeah. The Sam Whitwer Star Killer Theory, people are really on board for this. I think mostly the internet has agreed that I would enjoy it. So they are willing it to an existence. And for that effort, I appreciate, like, I just want to say I appreciate it. We have a little credits update. So last week you were talking about how Sam Whitwer is credited as additional voices. And Paul Darnel was credited as, like, doing the sort of physical performance of this character, Muruk, this helmeted hench for Bailen and shit. He got, Paul Darnel got an upgrade this week to featuring Paul Dornel as Murrick. And I don't know. That, to me, feels like a blow to theory corner.

I could be so wrong. but like this is all like contractual like sag after level kinds of stuff. You don't just like whimsically throw someone a featuring credit in a production. So let me ask you this, Joanna. In season three of the Mandalorian, Brendan Wade and Lateef Crowder joined the primary cast credits. They are in the dinjaran suit. Pedro does the voice. Is that a potential comp or not necessarily?

Possibly. It's a little different like their names. those two very talented performers, their names pop up over like the concept art closing, but they don't have a featuring credit. Like the language is so specific. And again, that is like sag after rules. So like I don't, we don't know. It's just more information.

And if someone pulls his helmet off next week and he is someone, I will rejoice along with everyone else. But I'm also just very prepared for this to just be a guy. As you know, that's where I still am. It's just like, we've met so many inquisitors who were just like new characters. Why would this not be another? But hey, if it's Star Killer, like, great, neat. Great.

Okay. What else do we have in three corner today, Joanna? Last and at least, we want to address, you know, this big question that's hanging over this, which is what drove Sabine and Asoka apart? As we said a couple times already, even those of us who have seen all of Clomores and all of rebels do not know the answer to that question. That is a question for all of us to publish. through together and there have been some oblique references.

We got this really interesting email from Haley that you and I both thought was kind of fascinating. Haley says, we still don't know what happened between Asoka and Sabine that made them split up, but I have a theory that has something to do with the destruction of Mandelor. It's interesting. We haven't gotten a present-day mention of Savim's family yet, just alluded to by Ezra's recording. And there's been discussion of her anger and resentment towards Asoka for not going where she's

needed and leaving her behind. It would make sense timeline-wise. Maybe I'm still a bit fuzzy on the exact timeline of when Moff Gideon actually destroyed Mandelor and when Asoka takes place. But according to Wikipedia, the destruction happened between 1B-Y and 5 AB-Y. So that would give Asoka and Sabine time of the past to train together up until the destruction and then several years apart. You've got your math face on. So I'll check back in with you in a second, Mallory. Maybe Assoca and Sabine were working fine together until the destruction or because of training they couldn't get to Mandelor in time.

perhaps Assoca didn't know how to handle Sabine's anger and guilt after it happened and left her. It would be a savage move by Asoka. Maybe too savage? Boca clearly was still in contact with Assoca in season two of Mando. So it's not like all Mandalorians blame her for the destruction or she even blames herself, just Sabine. Mallory Rubin, what do your L-Fi see? What does your math brain see? Oh, my Lord.

I'm mostly just wondering why, because it's correct that Wikipedia lists the great purge as one BBI to of five A.B.Y, but the night of a thousand tiers estimate is one BVY to nine ABI.I. It's just I was like, I could have sworn that this was nine, and then it's different for both. And interesting. Anyway, we don't know when that takes place. That is correct, and that is the key point.

And it, the possible time frame overlaps with this missing stretch of story for these characters. That is a fascinating observation that had candidly not occurred to me. So I was I was really struck by this email. Is it possible because of the time frame, yes. Do we know what happened to Sabine's family and how she feels about it and how she feels about everything with Mandelaar? No, we spent a lot of season three of Mando saying, is Sabine right?

And help with Book Dance Quest, right? So that's all interesting to me. Here's the thing that I bump on with this theory. We spent maybe 30 minutes of one of our primer pods talking about, Asoka versus Mall, the siege of Mandelaar. That's a different period in Mandelary in history, to be clear. We're talking about stuff that happened in the... People are always sieging Mandalor.

Let's be honest. There are so many sieges of Mandelar. But the reason I cite that, even though that happened in the Clone Wars, is because Asoka was so aghast and appalled that the Jedi wouldn't answer that call and go help, that I just can't imagine she wouldn't have. been there for Sabine and for Mandelor, like, and for Bo and for everyone else. I just can't imagine it given the character's history. I agree on the other hand.

I feel like we keep talking about how this like feels like a somewhat different Asoka post Twilight of the Apprentice, which, you know, would be who we would be dealing with is a post-Twilight of the Apprentice, uh, Asoka. So I, I largely agree with you. But that, like that aspect of her character, I don't know. I think it's interesting that in talking about, I mean, it's just a very obvious wound you could put in Sabine's past is the destruction of Mandelor. So it's surprising, I guess, that we haven't alluded to it at all yet. Anyway.

Yeah. Somebody keep our eye on. Yeah. Fascinating. Okay, we got a couple quick ones to wrap on. Still 75% original parts. Easter eggs. Joanna.

Did you have a favorite Easter egg in this episode of television? I mean, General Canobey. I love a General Gravis reference. So Who Yang with his lightsaber arms has got to be it for me. How about you? That's a great one. I had two picks. That's one of them.

And my other one, since you picked that, is the mini paltren. Jason's mini-Keyn and Paltren. It's fabulous. I absolutely loved it. Speaking of Jason, it's time for wig watch. Do you wear wigs? I'm going to give this show a slight pass on wig watch here because I do believe one of the main issues with the wig that we see on young Jason Sundula. I mean, they don't want to dye kids hair green, so they put them in a wig.

It's kind of shiny like Halloween store shiny. Like, I'm not a huge fan of it. And I think it is laid so oddly because they're trying to cover his ears so that we don't need to answer the question of what do his ears look. It is interesting that they had Mary Elizabeth Winston ruffle his hair at one point. I was like, don't ruffle the wig. It's not going to go well. On the plus side, on the plus column. I thought Sabine's hair, I don't know actually if Natasha is wearing a short wig or if that's her hair and she died at purple.

I think it's a wig based on like you can't really see the part in it. So I think it's a wig. But I thought it looks really like appropriately like sort of sweaty and must during her training sequence. And that's hard to accomplish necessarily with a wig. And then I just want to shout out our girl shin who she of the bleach blonde lob with bangs. Great look. Very like blondey. And she's wearing the same like goldy tiara.

looking headset that Anagan wears in the prequels, but she's tucked it under her bangs. So it just looked like extra 80s fabulous on her. I thought she looked stellar, the hair, the headbands. It was all working. It's great stuff. Another wonderful wig watch with Joanna Robinson. Trademark. Put the trademark in the right spot this time.

Lastly, if this show had Netflix subtitles. Oh, I miss the Lozcat. Oh, Sweet Bubba. Joanna, we didn't see Sweet Buba the Loath Cat in this episode. It's been, we're recording on Thursday afternoon. It's become Thursday evening during the course of this recording. Once again, having the time of my life. For Carlos.

It's very late on Thursday evening for Carlos. It was not in our time zone. It's been nine days since we've seen Sweep over the Loaf Cat. Keep in count. Keep in track. Speaking of absent. Petable. friends. It has been

568 days since we last saw Cobb van. My lord. Maybe this needs to be officially a new category. Maybe we'll introduce this next week. Perhaps in place of Theory Corner, we'll see. Keep it up with your own huge murk theories and we'll see what you get.

What's your pick this week? Give it to me. Majestic Space Whale crunes evocatively. Oh, I love that. Oh. That one's for you.

I actually found that moving, genuinely. Incredible. What do you have? This one's for you. Canonically established genius droid with the soul of a poet and the wit of a bard, powered down like Xerox machine by a mission-obsessed force-wielder

who wouldn't take a second to pet a cat. Soka catching all kinds of strays from her number one fan Malar Rubin. Remains my favorite, but with love, I have those two notes. You have like reams of notes. Pet the cat. Pet the cat. Don't deactivate. Don't power down your dear friend and companion.

Protocol. Anything else. I think we did it. And you know what? I'm proud of us for turning a 29 minute episode into four times as long of a podcast. Definitely not the record for Passabar, not even close. There were some shorter Boba Fett episodes that we somehow went longer on. So you're welcome, everyone, for the extremely speedy, not at all indulgent podcast from us. And I'm sorry, Carlos. All right. We like Ku Yang have several things. thoughts on everything else that's going on, but we have

at last reached the conclusion of today's episode. Thank you to our favorite force-wielders, Carlos Chiroboga, for producing this episode. Steve Allman and Arjuna Ram Gapal for their additional production work on this episode and Jomea Denneron for his work on the social for this episode. Remember,

The Midnight Boys will have a second episode for you on the Ring orverse this week. They're talking My Adventures with Superman. Head back into the House of our next Tuesday for the next installment of House of Who. Until next time, Remember, long live the empire doesn't sound like the kind of loyalty. World.

Love to sound like this. Now I will sound even less like I apparently look on Instagram.