House of R - ‘Andor’ Season 2, Episodes 10-12 Deep Dive

Episode Date: May 16, 2025

Jedha, Kyber, Erso. Mal and Jo return to recap the final three episodes of ‘Andor’ Season 2. They break down Dedra's fate, Kleya and Luthen’s backstory, the build-up to ‘Rogue One’, and more. (00:00) Intro (04:32) Opening Snapshot (20:40) Lonni Shares the Endgame (57:41) Dedra and Axis Face Off (01:20:51) Panic at the ISB (01:25:26) Luthen and Kleya: An Origin Story (01:53:01) Kleya Hits the Hospital (01:58:58) Heart Begins His Hunt (02:04:23) Dedra Faces Krennic (02:15:42) Kleya Signals for Help (02:28:34) Orson and Lio! (02:34:57) Mission Kleypossible (02:46:28) The Not-So-Safehouse (02:52:46) The Yavin Push Begins (03:06:25) Reflections and Remembrances (03:15:58) “One Single Thing Will Break the Siege” (03:21:53) The Road to Rogue (03:35:06) The End Hosts: Mallory Rubin and Joanna Robinson Producers: Steve Ahlman and Carlos Chiriboga Social: Jomi Adeniran Additional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Try Activia today. Enjoying Activia twice a day for two weeks as part of a balanced diet and healthy lifestyle. may help reduce the frequency of minor digestive discomfort, which includes gas, bloating, rumbling, and abdominal discomfort. Greetings! And welcome to House of R. A Ringerverse podcast on the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Mallory Rubin.

Joining me today, there will be no horizon to the scope of her inquiry, nor will there be any limit to her effort. It's Joanna Robinson. Oh, you know, a little bit of ISB here at the start. sounds like a good, like a good plan. Hello, what a thrill and an honor and enjoy to be here with you to potentially break our record for the longest podcast ever. We shall see. It's entirely possible. All right. It's entirely possible. Dare to dream. I have heard that there's fast

and there's good. So I take that as permission to potentially break our runtime record today. It is going to be a long one. It's going to be a death star sized podcast, no question. So we are just going to zip through some quick programming reminders here at the top. What's coming up? On the Andor front, many people are asking, will you please revisit Rogue One? Guess what? The answer is yes, we will. We will be doing a Rogue One revisited pod as our second episode next week in our usual Andor slide. And we're going to be doing that like through the lens of Andor. Now that we have finished Andor, how do we experience Rogue One anew? How do we experience it differently? So we're really excited to revisit that film and talk about that together next week and keep the Andor good times rolling for a little longer. because we are frankly not ready to stop talking about Andor. It's that simple. I've heard I really had to like restrain myself to, I was like, every time I had a

rogue one thought and I have a few that snuck in, but I was like, save it for the Rogue One pod. But yeah, I heard from a lot of people that they just, you know, did exactly what Tony Goerway said to do, which was just plow right into Rogue One after. And I think this is not homework I'm going to assign to you, but I want to watch Rogue One. And I also want to watch a new hope. Oh, yeah. You know, that's. How does it all fit?

That feels like the trilogy and or to Rogue One to New Hope, you know? I love it. We will also, of course, continue to cover The Last of Us, a show that we are having a wonderful time diving deep into. We will be diving deep into episode six of The Last of Us on Monday evening here on the House of Our. And the whole gang is continuing to cover the season. So the Midnight Boys, Poo! We'll be covering Last of Us on Sunday night right after the episode, the instant reaction will be up. The watch will be checking in.

Joe and Rob will have their latest interview and breakdown of the episode on Prestige on Thursday next week. And Buttonmash will be checking in Ben and Daniel with the Gamer's Guide on Thursday as well for the penultimate episode of season two. Oh, my God. I know. I'm not ready to say goodbye to both of these shows. We just rushed way too quickly through both of these incredible shows. I know. I know.

And now we have to wait until 2026 for Another of the Seven Kingdoms. I know. I could barely handle that update yesterday. Thank God for the group chat with you and Chris. This only thing that kept me going. All right, Joe, how can everybody follow along? Yeah. Well, great question. Okay, listen, follow the pod. I think that's a great idea. Watch us on YouTube and on Spotify. I think that's a great idea. Follow us on social. I think that's a wonderful idea on TikTok, on Instagram, on Twitter, et cetera, et cetera. And email us, hobbits and dragons at gmail.com. You sent us. literally hundreds of and or finale emails that I read blearily last night. Great stuff from all of you.

Thank you so much. If you have further thoughts, if you have Rogue One thoughts, you can send those over to us, and we will incorporate them into our pod next week. So fear not. There's a few of your emails that we sort of put aside to get into in our Rogue One chat next week as well. So thank you so much. Back to you in the studio, Mallory Rubin. Here's the last programming reminder.

It's the Friendly Neighborhood spoiler warning. We are, of course, going to be talking in great detail about these final three episodes of Andor. We will be talking about everything that's ever happened in Andor. Rogue One, as already noted, will come up today. Details from Rogue One will be coming up today. So if you have not seen Rogue One yet and want to watch that and then come back to the pod, we support that completely. And if it's ever happened in Star Wars, it could in theory come up today. All right.

Joe, I do not know if you can fight as well as you lie, but I know that you can pot as well as you do anything. So let's get to it. It is time for the opening snapshot. I'll miss the Star Wars music. All right, Joe. Arc four, the fourth and final arc of season two, the final season of Andor, the series finale episodes of Andor. We are talking today. It is just actually heartbreaking. We're talking today about episode 10, make it stop. episode 11, who else knows, and episode 12, Jedda, Khyber, Erso.

Say it like Claire. I got to work up my... I got to work up into the frenzied state, which I will do shortly. No question about it. We have so much to get to today. I think there will be tears without question many times throughout the pod today. It's going to be an emotional one. And part of that is because of how good the show is, and part of that is because of how much we love the show.

So let's just set the table before we begin our deep dive. Yeah. Joanna Robinson. How did you feel about these three episodes? How did you feel about season two? And how did you feel about Andor overall? Andor, it'll be really hard to top Andor as my favorite show of this year. I can't foresee anything topping it, but, you know, let's, something could come out of nowhere and do that.

maybe my favorite show of the decade. I just can't possibly describe how joyous it has been to have this nutritious a serving of a story universe that we love so much. So vegetables with our like, you know, with cheese of the IEP that we love on top of it just to make a delicious casserole. the joy of getting to read Ben Lindbergh's breakdowns. And so, like, you know, and have Ben text me like, do you think Claire is Cassie and sister, like stuff like that? To get texts from Chris Ryan, to listen to Andy get excited about it.

You know, so to hear from like our nerdiest of nerdy Star Wars pals and our what the hell is wrong with the state of IP pals and we're all joined together and our love of Andor is like truly joyous. And I also want to celebrate and or as a TV show. Now, I know we got these like three-episode arcs as sort of like little mini-movie drops, but the way in which and or as a reactive piece of media to like thinking about the stars of this final arc are people like Clea, Lonnie, Heart, you know, we got some great like Will stuff in this season, etc. There are all these ways in which we can plant seeds in a season one and watch them blossom and grow as long as we dutifully water them like Cassian does into season two is one of the

most joyful things about television, watching threads grow and build and build and build in our emotional investment in story, build and build and build and build and so, you know, and the way in which Tony Gilroy as like an excellent showrunner on this, but also just like all the other talented people that we've gotten to talk about in terms of like the various writers for the various arcs, the various directors for the various arcs. Tom Bissell, who's the writer on this three-episode arc, who also wrote the book, The Disaster Artist and has also like written great memoirs about, you know, his dad in the Vietnam War has been very sort of like government and politics focused.

So to bring his perspective into this to have Alonzo Ruiz Palacios as like the director who as, as Tony and he, his interview with Chris and Andy talked about sort of like the extra special visuals of this last arc. And I really agree. There are just some like distinctive, and we'll shut them out as we go, sort of just like really distinctive framings and moments that made it feel visually special alongside the absolutely stellar performances that we always get, the absolutely stellar writing that we always get on this show. And I also want to shout out Sonne Wollenberg, who is a figure that Tony credits and Diego credits,

but who is a very key, you know, exec producer on this show who, like Lonnie or someone else, doesn't get sung, doesn't get her praises sung as much. So, like, you know, we do a lot of shorthand when we praise Tony Gilroy, and we should because show owners matter, but, like, it takes a village to make a TV show. And so there's all these incredible people involved, and I love celebrating their great work.

To that end, the theme, I did not plan this, but here we go. The theme that I thought was most interesting in these final episodes, this idea of like, you can't do it alone, who is alone, and who is, who, you know, an alliance, a rebel alliance, how hard that is, but how vital it is. Yes. You have clashing perspectives inside of an alliance and to challenge each other and grow from each other, but also that you can't do something like this in isolation, I think, was one of my favorites. And then also I will just shout out.

something we've been tracking thanks in part to listener email but also just the show itself this idea of the messenger that you brought up last week obviously a title of the episode in last week's arc but also

the relay race right and so thinking about this the various like blinking signal lights that we get in here Lonnie's light for Claya Clayah's light for Will like what are these blinking signals that we're putting out into the universe and the desperate hope that someone will be listening, right? And then the way in which the

baton in this stretch that they're passing, the information baton in this stretch that they're passing, is like this poison baton, like Part of a later we'll call it a disease as part of a cover story. But this idea that like as soon as Lonnie gets his death star information, he dies. As soon as Luthan gets it, he dies. I was really worried about Clea. But like Cassian and Melchie will die soon after. And then when we watch, this is my, this is my Rogue One thing that I should save, but I'm not going to save.

When we watch that final data get passed in the relay race at the end of Rogue 1 and each person that touches it is cut down by Vader until they pass it to the next one, it's just this idea of like not just a relay race now, which is what we've been talking about this whole time, but like

such a high stakes poison pill deathly relay race that everyone has made a choice and that's another huge theme of this arc, but the choice to touch it and to pass it and to know that in touching it will probably sign their death sentence in many cases.

I love this TV show. I love this arc of episodes. I do think that overall in the season, I think the Gorman arc was the height of the season for me, which is not to say I have any major critiques about these last three. I think the Luth and Clayah episode

episode 10 was like absolutely top tier. But I do think there's just some, you know, as we passed the baton over to Rogue 1, I do think there's some little like, you know, little bumps and hiccups along the way there that make, similar to the end of season 1, the end of Andor not as ecstatic as the middle of Andor, which is fine. It's like a slow start, this sort of like middle six, you know, orgasmic television experience and then the cool down and the final three. And I think I will desperately miss this show

and I will desperately miss talking to you about this show. So those are my snapshot thoughts, yeah. Same, yeah. I thought this was really extraordinary. Like, I thought this was an incredible conclusion to a really remarkable television show. I didn't know how season two could possibly measure up to season one, especially with the task of marching not just closer to,

but directly into Rogue One. And so, like, this is just... the platonic ideal and beyond that of not only how to execute a prequel, but why to do one in the first place, like what the proposition even is and what moving across a wide story universe and seeking to extend or expand canon can do when it's done right and handled with care and when there's a real vision for what to say and what to explore about a person's life and their relationships together. I'm with you completely, you know, that idea of the message and the relay race entwined with

the idea of the need to unite and the alliance and how hard that really is and how many people who even were a part of pushing that and fueling it couldn't do it at the end, which makes us appreciate even more when it actually happens. Yeah. I was struck so keenly by the moment between here and Dedra. no friends, right? No friends at all. And that there is not a single more meaningful contrast to draw between the sides.

I have friends everywhere and the ability to make your way home somehow, even if you don't think you can. And the depth of despair and the show that we reach the darkest points we ever went to, you could think of a number of them, because it was quite grim a lot. the way, but something like nobody's listening on Narcina as a contrast to knowing when you send that call, someone will be there. Like, it's just incredible. And I, or hoping that they'll be there and trying. Exactly. Trying was the other big theme to me of this entire experience. Like, Nemex Manifesto was such a thrill to not only hear his voice, but obviously like, that manifesto has always been on our minds. I'm like, already crying. I didn't think it was

start quite this early, though I can't say I'm shocked. I think it'll be, I think it'll be waterworks today. This is going to be a very emotional experience talking about the story that we love. You know, the end of that manifesto, that particular chunk of the manifesto try, like remember try. I mean, I remember that we talked about in season one, how meaningful and notable it felt that that is a very different idea from a kind of sacred Star Wars pillar. Do or do not. Yeah. Like, Ayyota, do or do not, there is no try. And that with Nemek's message and words and the actions really of everybody of consequence.

And of course, so much of the mission of the story is to explain to us and show us how many people of consequence there really are, who will never see the sunrise or who will never feel the gratitude, right? Mommy. Oh, my God. But who did something as crucial as Luke firing that final decisive shot. And none of it happens if they don't try. Like that so much of this is about trying and just giving a shit and attempting to make the world a little better. And like, I mean, what an incredibly powerful thing. And the writing, the craft of the filmmaking, the performances, the way the world is rendered.

I mean, so many things in these three episodes just hit me like incredibly hard. I can't wait to talk about my beloved beautiful beer, returning. This really can't. But one of the things, unsurprisingly, probably, that really, like, walloped me was that little moment and that little conversation between Clay and Cassie and about just the idea of an ending and, like, that nothing's ending and that that's really part of the magic of a great story, right?

It's like, not just that you could always go back into that story in that world and know that you can share it with other people who loved it too, but also, like, one of the incredible things about Andor is, like, one of the incredible things about Andor is, like, what a miracle it is on its own. And then also how it enriches for us this other wider, bigger thing that we already cared so deeply about. And that is just really rare and really precious. And so, like, you already said it, right? You don't just want to go rewatch Rogue One.

You want to go rewatch New Hope. And after you finish that, you're going to want to do something else. And it's like, that's the best feeling in the world. And so there were, like, a lot of great, really fun things. Everyone should watch Tony Gilroy is wonderful. interview with Chris and Andy on the watch. There were a lot of incredible insights and wonderful things about that, and it's always really fun to watch the three of them talk.

But, you know, when Gilroy was just talking about the industry and making something like this and making something at all and said, you know, people clearly need stories. It's an essential need. They need them bad. They need them bad is what he said. Like you feel that with, I think, the response to Andor in a way that feels so keen and so meaningful.

And like, I just feel really fortunate that we got to share it together and got to share it now. And I look forward to revisiting it for the rest of my life as a Star Wars fan. That's just the best feeling when you finish something and you know, like, it's going to be a part of your experience of loving a thing forever. It's just the best. So I can't believe it's over, but I mean, it's not. We have a few hours ahead of us still. But, you know, what an incredible thing. On the nature of prequels, I think it's so interesting to think about Thank you for sharing that. I love you so much.

And I can't wait to cry with you for four hours. Are you hydrated? Are you ready? I have a decent amount of water and some tissues, but, you know, who knows? I was struck thinking about every time they were like Tivik's calling. Yeah. And Tivik, if you haven't seen Rogue One ever or haven't seen it in a while, is a person that Cassing goes to meet right at the beginning of Rogue One, right? So like, this actific is calling means rogue one is calling.

Yeah, exactly. Which means like that movie is knocking on the door of this show like for the last arc. And, you know, you hear Gailen Arso or you hear, like, you just keep hearing that movie knocking. It reminded me. It reminded me of end of time, the last Doctor Who arc, right? Or it's like he'll knock three times. You keep hearing this knocking sound, which is the desks. end of that doctor.

And so it's just sort of like, Tivik's knocking, scariff's knocking. And it's just like, and that's the way in which a prequel, in the best version of a prequel, can work because a lot of prequels, sorry, this is where I'm going to shit talk,

your favorite solo Star Wars story, but like a lot of hashtag makes it all of to happen. It's not too late. A lot of solo, a lot of prequel movies, I feel like they're trying to knock on the door of this thing you already love. And they're like, let us in to, you love Harrison Ford is Han Solo. So let us in. That's, you know, but that's not like what you should

feel is the destiny looming and the things, the events that are coming knocking on the door of the story that you're witnessing. And that's what I felt like with and or sort of all along, certainly, but in this final three episode arc, of course, certainly. And I just, this idea of story baton as well, like passing the story baton over to Rug 1 to A New Hope, too yada, yada, yada down the line is just so

yeah, I need these stories. I need them bad. I know. It's tough times. And we need these, we need these stories, yeah. Snoring, gasping during sleep, feeling fatigued, ask your doctor about zebbound, terse appetite. The first and only FDA-approved

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Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsened kidney problems. Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-99 or visit Zetbound.lily.com. Should we dive deep? Deep? Oh, boy. Okay. Can I ask you? Wait, okay.

We're right at the start. This is the B.B.W. question, right? We're right on the verge of Rogue 1. Yep. Did I count correctly that we kind of slightly cheated the three-day, in that we extended, the night of day two takes up a lot of this arc. It is nighttime and day two for a lot of this arc, and then we just get, morning is broken, the break of dawn and day three is the end of this arc. Would you agree? Bail, the guy you don't like is here. It's great stuff from coming in to disrupt a very, very painful dream and fitful night of sleep from Cassian.

Yeah. Yeah, I think that's, that's right. Yeah. It was amazing to see that that overall, though, that these are the days, you know, these are the days, the days of the year that get us to where we need to be. Like, it's just an incredible structural concept and way to do this, really. like, it's unbelievable. And speaking of structure,

we're going to do this slightly differently today, maybe actually in a more conventional way. We always, usually on how some of our deep dives, go just through the episodes in order. But for Andor, because it's three episodes a week and it's been so much, we've been kind of clustering by character set or plotline. These three episodes, though,

mostly do need to be, like, considered in order. And so we are actually going to go through the episodes in order with a little bit of rearranging and clustering inside of each episode. So we are going to talk about episodes. 10 first, then episode 11, then episode 12, which means that we will not be talking about Cassie and Andor for a little hot second here. Because he is not in episode 10.

The only episode of Andor that does not have Cassie and Andor. You have to be so confident that you have something fucking great to do that. And guess what? They do. They had something fucking great because episode 10 was amazing. The first couple scenes of this episode are just extraordinary. Absolutely God dear stuff. Let's start with our beloved Lonnie, who is here to share the end game.

This is what Luton wanted. What's the end game? I need the end game. Here it is. That alarm in the gallery blairs. Clea emerges in her pajamas. I always love these reminders that they're living there, just bunking in the fond door in the back. Her jim jimbs.

Yeah. An emergency call, right? We spend so much time on just the beeping. and the blinking of the light, that signal that we're tracking. There's no more time for subtlety, right, for leaving a little symbol on the rail and walking through the path and is somebody reaching out and when is their time to meet? It's like all hands on deck now. We rung the big bell and it's okay if everybody knows.

Clayah gets the blaster set, Luther Reddy's his disguise. I love just a ritual one more time of putting on the wig and putting on the rings. We are going to shatter the wig watch record today, by the way. We have multiple distinct hair segments for you coming today. Mirror watch, right? Luthorne looks at himself in the mirror one last time. But yeah, the like shoving on of the rings, this sort of like, because later we'll see Cassian arm up, you know, strap the blaster on,

etc. at the end of the last episode. But yeah, here's Luton's armor, his, like his rings and his wig and his fancy cloak. I know. And how it incredible then later when we actually see him in military. garb and the actual armor and the plates on his legs and let's just think about. And the worst wig you've ever seen in your entire life. Just, you know, lay in a little trail for you. You had watched these before me and you told me, I mean, a couple of things, you know, that they were incredible.

Yeah. And then there was like the most astonishing wig that we had yet confronted. I don't know. I didn't guess a character I should have, but I don't know if I would have guessed. Wait a, what do you think when you saw it? Were you like, well, there it is? Of them immediately. You told me, you're like, you will know the second you see it.

There will be no question. And you were, you were correct. What a masterpiece of a show. This is a minor quibble. We'll get there. I can't wait. I can't wait. Playas says to Luthan tell me you're ready.

They're going to meet at the old steps. Oh, no, is there construction there? Okay, it doesn't matter. There's no time for alternatives. We have, again, this idea of the rush and the ticking of the clock. And this connects to what you were saying a few minutes ago about how Rogue One is knocking and you can feel it. Like, I was thinking a lot watching these episodes about how unbelievable,

It's unbelievably impressive it is that the show has achieved what should be impossible, which is it feels like the characters have the same insights that we do. But they don't. We actually know. The time is running out. We actually know that Rogue One is coming in mere days, and we know what is happening there, and we know what it all means, and we know that the window is finite and tiny and shrinking and closing, and not everyone is going to make it through.

They don't know that, and yet they can feel it just as keenly as we can. And I just thought that was incredible and really, like, not only amplified the tension, and heightened it, but the sense of a shared experience, which was the other thing that was so incredible. I mean, I'm going to just lose it when we talk later about Cassian and Vell toasting the dead. But that was another example in a very different tonal way of like, we are just in that scene with the people who are experiencing this thing. I just like, I just can't believe it. I just teared up thinking about him saying Sinta and her saying Mar like your mother. It's too much. It's almost too much to bear. I just like can't handle it.

Oh, my God. Clayah Hansluthan, the blaster that he's going to use. and Lani and says, promise me, if it doesn't look perfect, you won't engage. And I'm going to ask you to do something right now. I want you to make a prediction. How many times on this podcast will I, your co-host, say this is the best line in Star Wars history? There's this line from Rogue One where Casey says, there's a problem on the horizon. There is no horizon. And that's how I feel. We can just see the rock of Jeddah City coursing towards us. We've used up all the perfect. We've been saying, I think we used up all the perfect as one of the best things that I've ever heard on television.

This was just unbelievable. Not only because it is gorgeous writing and just like pantheon stuff from a story crafting perspective, but because of the shared history, which we have not yet seen in full, that is still coming in this episode, that it hints at and that it captures everything that they've done together, everything that they've tried, all of the sadness, but also the love and the pride because that smile and the tenderness in Luthan's expression as he looks at her, this really reminded me of what you were observing beautifully last week about the different phases of a rebellion, right? Seasons for different things, moments for different things of different people and different styles. And that Clea and Luton

have been a part of all of that together. And this is the moment to say, I think we've used up all the perfect. And how Clea has always believed, like, you know, if Luthan's like, our time is common, and Claire is like, yeah, our time is over. And then the fight that it takes for Andor to be like, Clayah, you've got more chapters, you know, like, this is not your final chapter. It might be Luthens, but it's not yours. And how she, how hard it is for her to accept that there is like a road without Luton on it because they've been walking together side by side since the beginning. I love that. And I also love, you know, Tony to Chris and Andy on The Watch,

and a number of other interviews has talked about how Luthin is, like, his comp in the show, his closest comp. And this idea of, like, we used up all the perfect. Like, we worked so hard on this show for so long. We grew fields of rye for this show. And we are, like, knowing his limited advance. knowing I can't do so five seasons, but I've used up all the perfect. I've done it for two seasons.

And here we are. It's just so good. There were a number of lines like that that felt deeply meta that I really, really loved. Melchie had time for Melchie to step up. That was great. I have some questions for you about Melchie's Revog intake when we get a little deeper into the pods. I think his revnog intake helped in that moment when he's in the spotlights of all the guns. and they're like, don't move.

And he's like, I'm going to move. I'm just going to go back in. Just going to move. I can chat, but I'm just going to pop right back in. Great stuff. Speaking of moving. Yeah. That's the next thing we hear.

This meaningful look between them and Luthan's saying, smiling and saying gently, move. And we will learn via the flashbacks that are to come in this episode, what that calls upon what that one word means to him. And I was thinking about how across the series, especially in season one, but across the series, we heard a lot about vows. The characters taking vows and making vows. And like, swear and swear. They make you swear in Sergio.

That this word for Luton and Clea is their vow to each other, that they will push each other and argue and always say what they really think, which we very much enjoyed watching over two seasons of television. Yeah. But that when the moment comes and you utter that word, the person on the other side knows what it means. And you are on a shared plane of understanding with each other that other people do not inhabit with you. Like, to be able to convey all of that in one word is just remarkable. And to your point, it's only on rewatch that we get the full depth of it.

I mean, this is why I'm already like every year. Every year. Every year. We did get a lot of feedback from people who are like, obviously it's a May the fourth thing. Like, come on guys. It's not hard to figure out the time. It's like, yeah, okay. We're tired.

Sorry. But we haven't been sleeping a lot. But you drafted Chris Ryan into this Rewash project. Amazing. With ease. Yeah. I mean, quite quickly. He was ready.

He was ready. We get a little bit of vintage Clayah stuff here when she smiles in response and says what? tuck in your shirt. I just love that one more moments like question. Who are they to each other? How did they get to this point to each other before we actually got those answers. I thought it was great. Joanna. We see our guy, Lani striding into the park. Luton arrives. He's hovering by the bench. Now, we talked last week. I was bumping a little bit in episodes that I thought were astonishing and absolutely adored in the three of my favorite episodes of television ever. On, like, okay, what does it mean if Luton is just standing there talking to Mon Mothma? And Clayah and Cassie and they're all out there together. Here I did not feel that because here I understood what this is. meant to Luthan and what it was what it was supposed to mean to us, which is like, there's no more

reason to hide. The big bell is around. The clock is about to stop ticking. The big bell has rung. But we did get some emails about this. Okay. First and foremost, I want to say that according to starwars. This bench is under the bridge between the Palau de las Artes Rena, Sophia, in Spain that we

already mentioned was used for the Senate building that we saw Mon escape from. So if you want to go in Valencia, right, if you want to go to that building and go under the bridge and leave some flowers for Lonnie at that bench, I think it would be so beautiful if, like, Lonnie's bench became a place for Star Wars fans to, like, like Will & Wirest bench? Yeah, yeah.

Okay. Aaron wrote this, and I just want to show out the bad babies, who wrote us deeply thoughtful emails, and then some of them wrote us very hilarious emails, and this is a really good one. Aaron wrote, I would just like to ask, ask why in a galaxy comprised of a wide variety of life forms with a wide variety of appearances are we and by we i mean super spies luth and claia cassie and etc just walking around doing

super spy missions with our whole faces out can we not commission someone to make us some wookie suits or rodean masks or something could luther not slap on a set of head tails and some green makeup before chilling on a bench for all to see with a goddamn isb agent a saul guerrera breather mask at the very least. So, Erin, thank you so much for pitching Mission Impossible Corrason. I look forward to your pilot pitch to Lucasum. Yeah, why aren't we wearing masks in Star Wars? I support it.

Even fun can do it. Fing facial hair, at least. You know? That's so, like, but... Varian Sky could have had a great go-to. Well, here's, okay, follow question. is it like racially insensitive to paint yourself green in a star most that's why I'm going with facial hair green faces out okay got it got it but the point is noted

that some uh ramping up of the disguise maybe a little bobby valentine you know mustache and fake nose and glasses little baseball dug out I've been ejected but I'm still hanging around kind of a thing definitely know that reference um the reference that I did get Having to meet on this bench here is such a good classic, like, two competing agents from different organizations feed the ducks in a park, like, from a spy movie moment. I loved it so much. And Lonnie's in his, like, spy movie trench coat. Like, it's just, ugh, it's so good. I was waiting for Jackson Lamb to show up and remark that you just learned that you can wash a coat.

But Lonnie's kind of surprised Lutheran game. I didn't know if you would. Just every little moment is carrying so much here. Luceon's like, let's hear it, man. I'm here. You know, the gesturing and the whole gesture to let the Dedra in later. Here's what we learned from Lani. Speaking of Dedra, contacted a friend of Lani's in Tactical.

I have friends everywhere. She's assembling a team and is working on a course on top. And her reputation as a rulebender led this friend to reach out to Lani to be like, you think this is safe, tough stuff for Bedri just across these episodes. I mean, bad news for everyone in Tactical who was involved in the Luthan grab. Like, do you think they all went to Narcina? What do you think? That's a great question.

I don't know. I feel like it just a lot of this fell on Dendra. But I don't know. The whole thing is kind of crumbling, actually, by the end. So, yeah, when Krennick says, you know, ISB death marchant, I think implies that basically everybody's fucked. Dedra most of all, but really all of them. Lonnie's deduction here, she's coming for you.

It's time. She's coming for you. But he can't confirm because you can't reach back out because he's been burned. And Luthan's response to that is not, are you okay? Oh, my God. Do you need a shoulder to cry on it? It's, what have you done? Which I loved because this is the guy who has told Lani, you can't leave.

Lonnie has tried to get out of this before on Luthon. that I need all the heroes I can get, right? So, of course, this would be his response. Not only the threat to himself, but, like, what does it mean to lose your great resource, your ISB plant, your man on the inside? In season one, Luton's like Lani. Yeah.

You're worth more than 30 men and Krieger. Bind. Yeah. And guess what? This season, Lonnie has proved him absolutely. Correct. Correct. Yeah.

Eat shit. Antung Krieger. Every arc, Lottie's like, guess what? I know. It's incredible. I have something very important to share. with you. This is really, it's three days, you know, Tony was talking to Chris and Andy about this. He's like, well, people bump on how much happens over the course of these three days every

a couple of years. And I'm not bumping on it at all. But like, I really feel like it's the three most important days of Lonnie's year. Every year is what we're experiencing in addition to everything else. Cassian goes on a number of missions. But Lonnie's like, guess what I got. Intel galore. Let's go. Certainly the most important days for here. You know, got to try some great cocktails at a fancy party, then got used to human shield and shot six times at the chest. The way he was swinging. Astonishing stuff. A lot of poetic ends in these episodes, but here it was high on the list.

Oh, our friend of the pod, Matt Midevich wrote in, he was like, you know, Matt was basically like, as a short king myself, like, do you think that this? They, Matt's more like a medium king, but he was like, he was like, do you think they intentionally surrounded Heart by like the tallest tactical team they could find walking down that hallway? And then they're like, you can tuck in, sir. Tuck in. Tuck in was tough. Hide like a baby, sir.

We've got it from here. We love a short king. We do not love Heart. And I don't know if you've heard this before, but we don't love fascism. So it took us longer today than usual to say that. That's because Cyril's not around anymore. That's really how you know. It's true.

That's the true sign that Cyril's gone. It took until the 40-minute mark to mention that we don't want that. I really missed him. I really missed him. I know. Me too. We still will find ways to bring him up today. No question.

Lonnie says that he has figured out what they've been chasing. But before he tells Luther what it is, he's got a bargain. And, like, Luther's kind of like, are you fucking kidding me, man? And I was like, yeah, Lonnie, do it. Of course you have to bargain. And it turns out it didn't matter that he bargained. But I have to be it. Try. Like Numick says you got to try.

His wife and daughter. He's got him tucked away and he wants to know how we're going to get them off of Corrason. And this was just very sad because of course it takes us back to the iconic Luton, Lonnie's seen in episode 10 and like the way that Luton brought up fatherhood and the daughter as a way to basically say to Lonnie, I always know what's happening in your life, whether you have told me or not. And that heart-wrenching moment, especially now that we've spent more time with Lonnie, like, to go back when we hear him say like, I had no idea. how it would feel. I think it's just going to fucking shred us and destroy us every time we watch it from here on. And I'm wondering, like, are they okay? Don't right. They're on Meena Rao. Everyone's fine on Meena Rao. Everything is fine on Meerao. Do you think they were like, we grew all this rye, we just have to use this set once more? I think they did such a good job establishing Talia as like the nicest, warmest, most comforting person everyone that they're They're just like, let's send everyone to Mina Rao. Don't worry about it.

If she's good enough for B, it's good enough for everyone else. Okay, I like it. I like it. What did Lonnie Steele, Joe? Dedra's Code cert. This is frankly brutal for Dedra. For a year. Oh my God.

A.K. since last week on Anor. He has had Dedra's Code cert. And he kept that from Lutheran, right? He's like, I knew if I told you you pushed me to use it. And I think that's so interesting because, Because, like, as you note in our doc here, like, this idea of, like, we've used up all the perfect. Like, Lonnie knows that the clock is ticking and that Luthon is pushing for faster and faster, more and more reckless behavior. And Lonnie's like, Lonnie only made this move because he knew Luton was about to get gotten.

He probably couldn't stop it. And if Luthon got got, then that was his death sentence anyway. So, you know, there we go. Yeah. Yeah, it was interesting to think about to your week-year point from a second ago, how like it's two weeks since we've seen the, you used to tell me to wait, those days are gone, exchange between them. But it's been two years, you know, since the second arc of Lonnie, like, feeling that ratcheting up of the pressure. Yeah. And making every decision through that lens of, like, what the, anticipating what the response will be to whatever he shares.

And just all of the things that he was carrying every day. Like, I'm really glad Lonnie made it this far. I'm amazed. As you know, I was very worried about him every step of the way. Like, this is just, I mean, I can't wait to brag about our shared favorite, Clea, who did one of the most incredible things that we've ever seen. But if you already noted, like, what Lonnie has achieved here is just, is Titanic, is historic. Once again, that bench is under the bridge.

Should we go? What should, what would we leave? A pilgrimation, pull out, yeah, yeah, yeah. What would we leave for Lonnie? That's the question. Oh, great question. Hmm. Some ginger to honor his ginger icon status.

Could do that. Maybe like a little mini elevator, a little lift. A little mustache. A little mustache on the little lift that used to ride to meet Lutham. That sounds nice. Luton says, yeah, this is to your point about time, Daj Miro has been hunting Luton for five years. Five years.

Yep. You and I've been podcasting other for like, what, three years? Three and a half? Three and a half, yeah. Yeah. Imagine if you were looking for one person this whole time and then add more time to that. And that's how much Dedra fucked up her moment, her time to shine. I know. It's a tough one. It's a tough end for Dedra who is riding away in Arkeena, where she belongs. We don't like fascists, so.

Where she belongs. I've said it before. Has it come up? This is where we get that. There's fast and there's good moment from Luton, which was just great stuff and very rich. again, another meta line, certainly. Yeah. And Lonnie dives in and shares this thing that he has discovered. Lusin says, I think it's here maybe, hopefully my notes were accurate. But he also says, you're not the only one who'll be running. We're in this together, what we're up against.

Like, Luton is offering him fake fellowship here, right? Exactly. Lying to him with fake fellowship. But like, that offer of real fellowship, which will come via like Vell for Klaa, all the people who are reaching out for clay. Melschie is reaching out for clay. Everyone's reaching out for clay to try to wrap her in. And that's like just the difference between them ultimately,

even though they are cut from the same cloth. How it twisted him along the way, right? As we hear, as we hear cast say later, like, and really love the way that these episodes made so much room for the totality of who Luce it is. It's just obviously the mission of the show is to be able to do that. and they did it beautifully at the end. So Lonnie shares what we, of course, as viewers have known, which is Stardust, right?

The energy program is a lie. Palpatine's a liar. Turns out Palpatine's a liar. Great stuff later on Yavin when they're like, oh, we know all about that energy program. And then the mom's like, yeah, but like, none of the details. We've been funding it without details or oversight. Tough one there for all of the senators. Gorman, a front for minerals, Jedda, Khyber Crystal Hunt.

not a partisan hunt, the public order, the labor camps, scarriff, orsyn Krennick's been building a secret weapon for over a decade. We're hitting all of our keywords to lead to Rogue One, The New Hope, the destruction of the first Death Star. And like, you know... Do you think by labor camps, is that Narcina? Like, that's essentially Narcina is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

The camps where they're constructing these parts of the pieces of the Death Star. And the larger machine. You know, like we know what they're going to learn in these episodes because they have to, right? We know, like you said, what we're moving toward. And so it's still like work is just incredible. What's interesting to me is like on the one hand they have to. But on the other hand, in Rogue 1, they get that information from Tivic. Right.

So like there was real suspense for me of like, yes, they're going to get, they are going to get this information. Yeah. And having it is what puts. it's Cassian and, you know, the folks at Yavin and a place to, like, take this even more seriously and all this sort of stuff like that. But I was like, am I watching the kind of show where, like, Clay is going to die before she could tell anyone? You know what I mean? Right. Yeah, for sure. I wasn't sure. I did wonder that too, like, oh, my God, is Luton going to learn, but will they not be able to share it? And will we have these like parallel discoveries

that don't actually overlap, which would have been very interesting to watch as well. But I really ended up enjoying this aspect of, you know, we had this elsewhere at the dock, but I think, you know, it certainly I think some people could bump on, okay, well, like, because a lot of the information, you know, about, about Bodie and then the hollow and everything Galen shares, like, does come in Rogue One, does it feel like Lutheran should have died for related information to something that has established another story? But I have really loved this because, like you mentioned, you know, it, to me, like enriches then the response that we see. from all characters in Rogue One,

not only like somebody like Cassian who is sprung into action and there with Tivik and when he hears Ursus and you're like, oh shit, now we know like how he knows that name. It's like I heard Clea say that 20 different times at least. Yeah, exactly. Multiple recounts of all of the keywords being told on to.

Like, you know, Palo and Jebel and these people who are so staunchly like defiant in the face of this threat, when you then see in these episodes like, oh, this is who they are. You know, it clarifies something that I always thought was kind of like a baffling in Rogue One. How resistant. Yeah.

Like, wouldn't this be the most serious thing that you would ever heard? Wouldn't you feel a compulsion to act? And, you know, this, I think the other thing is connects to your opening note about this core theme. Like, the idea that especially in episodes where Luthyn's lack of a tether to the people who are running Yavin. is so central and that people like Will and Cass and Clea have to be the ones to say out loud like none of this exists without him. I just loved that he was a part of this thing and that all of them were a part of it together and that that's what an alliance is and that's what a rebellion is.

I thought that was really cool. And just to like never watch anything that has to do with a Death Star again without being able to think about Luther and Clayah is like amazing. And Lonnie. And Sweet Lonnie. You will not forget Lonnie, and I love that. And, dude, like, you know, on the Lonnie front, like you said, when we think about, like, all the stuff that he has been offering up, man, he's the one who was like, so there's this,

this riser, Dejramiro, right? Axis, uh, Gorman, Dejris running Gorman. Uh, Beal Organas, like, rescue team, I have a note. The fucking Death Star. Like, my favorite thing about, uh, bail organas team, I have a note is, actually, I I put her there. I put her there. Yeah.

But you know, I had to put someone on bailor on his team. One of my favorite bail moments in these episodes is when Cassian's like, last time after Luther was when I rescued Mon Motha from the Senate. And Bail's like, duly noted. Fucking noted Cassian. I liked when he was like confirming with Draven.

Like, okay, so the ship returning, this is Andor and he did this. And then Draven's like, you know, yeah. You can say that. and Bale's just like, incredible. And he did it all wearing Bail's truly hideous cloak that he had in Rogue One. They really settled. They settled Benjamin Brat with that dumb cloak that like can't really maneuver his shoulders in. But on the flip side, we have, you know, we're swimming in some of Cassie and Anders best vests and jackets.

So that is a gift. I can't wait to talk about Will. Okay. That is a gift. But like, yeah, Lonnie. We can't think about the history of Star Wars and the history of the galaxy without thinking about Lonnie. And isn't that amazing? I mean, I'll be thinking about Lonnie.

Forever. You won't be. Well, I remember we'll see. But, like, the work that the show has done to genuinely radically alter how we think about the people who have had an impact on the state of play is just really remarkable and amazing. I love it. And we talked about this a bit in previous weeks, but I just think that, like, especially in contrast to the way in which it feels like, elsewhere in the Lucasfilm story world, they want to connect a lot of things

back to the Skywalker's, back to Palpatine. They feel sort of just sort of like jammed up in this idea of special family lineage and stuff like that. And then it's just sort of like, it was a ginger named Lonnie who worked at the ISB who was like, hey, this fascism thing seems not very good. And we recruited him.

And you went from there. And that's, you know, very broomboy of them, and I love it. We love broomboy. This is a very pro-a-brum-boy podcast. Always has, but always will be. Should we also rewatch Last Jedi? Sure.

Should we just do it all? Lani asks, or Lutthin asks, what kind of weapon? You got any details on the weapon? And Lonnie pushes again to know where he's going to take them in Luton. Eyes wide. This is some of the widest-eyed stuff we've seen from Luton. Yavin. What is that?

which I loved. Like, what do people know and what don't they know, even when they are this crucial, right? And Lonnie repeats it, like, sort of raptuously. The promise of Yavin and the, the lore of it, and then the way that it is actively, like, rejected by someone like Clea later. What a bitter ending. What a better end?

Holy shit. That's to be my sanctuary. Oh, my Lord. She's just a city girl. What are you going to do in the jokes? The mean streets of Khorasan. Wait until she's a bit. meet some of the Maya Pay Brigade

dipshits who have been a lingering in the forest. We did not get a Maya Pay brigade checkup in the final closing montage. Here's the thing. It can just all be head cannon for us. Okay. Nothing is off the table.

I think they went to Scariff personally. I support you. I believe it's going to turn the car over and take all the fell out. And I believe that the Maya Pay Brigade made it to Scariff. And I want these things to be true for you. I saw it like a power ranking

of, uh, And our season two characters on the subreddit. And it was really, really funny. And all the categories were just like kind of broad, you know, sort of like, delighted they had more screen time, blah, blah, blah. And the last one was like, reason why they discontinued that model of space taxi. And it was just take home.

And I was like, what this chart presupposes is that take home died because Sinta flipped it upside down. I was like, it's catching fire. The signal, the message is out there. Again, your impact is real. And it is felt and seen and measurable, I think, right now. Thank you. Oh, God. I thought I was so thrilled every time somebody spoke up to tout Lutthin and celebrate what he had done.

And we will be doing that a lot today. I also thought that Luton using this sacred place, a symbol to Star Wars, Lonnie might not know what it is, but we do, a symbol to Star Wars fans of, like, the possibility of rebellion as a false carrot to manipulate him into sharing what he needs before Luton will then shoot him in the chest to be everything that I have loved about watching

Lousin Rael as a character and so fucking grim and dark. And this is what we've been talking about since the first pod we did on Andor, like a character and we have many of them. But Luton is obviously number one on the call sheet here. who shows us that you will do anything that is necessary, right? Burn your decency. Burn your decency. Here it is.

I mean, my God. Lonnie had to sacrifice everything at the end, Joe. That was the choice, Luther made form. The way we don't see him do it, we just see Luton walk away. And then the slumped form on the bench. The canted angle of Luton walking down the stairs is, again, one of those visual twists that we don't often get in an Nandor episode. And then we get this, the score is swelling. We get the reveal of Lonnie's body.

And then... Sweet little picks. Discovering a Lonnie. Yes. Great to get a little Tuka moment. Wonderful. A Tuka cat. Is it a cat?

A Tuka? Yeah. Close enough. And then like we get the hurrying down the stairs. So then we'd get a walk, a direct walk towards camera. And it's the first of many that we'll get in this episode. And I've been talking from the beginning about. the idea of the long walk in Andor, and we get a couple, like, you know, I would say

Clayah through the levels of the hospital. But of course, the big long walk is Cassian on the way to the ship. And like all the things he passes on his way, the forest seal or melchie, like, blah, blah. And hearing Tony tell Chris and Andy that that final sequence, the walk to the ship was always meant to be the final sequence. That's the thing they knew that they were going to end with this long walk. And so you get to them, like, play it back

through the season. And if you go back to the first episode, after Cassian shoots those guys, is we get a walk of, like, a grim hero walk towards camera. And not all of these long walks have been walked towards camera. Often, actually, they're back of the head walks.

But we get this Lutheran hero walk. walk towards camera. We'll get a clay a walk towards camera. We'll get another Cassie walk. There's just like a lot of like hero stride toward camera moments in these last. And I just like again, thinking it as like a be rolling. Yeah. Ford us. Of course. Obviously

Perrin rolling in the in his cab. Just kidding. Should we halt our plans and just do the whole pot on Parrott? Parents Midlife Crisis earrings. Genuine no-node stuff. Like Davo's wife

The decanter, all of that. But for me, it was the added touch of, like, he pierced his ears. Yeah, the new hair, the new hair doing the earring was just astonishing. But, yeah, this idea of, like, we've been on this path the whole time. We've been walk. Every step was a step towards this moment of Cassian getting on that ship flying off to meet. Tivik, but then dinner so. And everything that comes out with Tivic, we won't forget you, but then dinner so and everything.

And speaking of Tivik. Gathering as we go, right? gathering as we go, as the four-sealer said. How can we not be thinking about Cassie and Tivik when we realize what Luton has done to Lani here, right? Lani didn't even get to say that he couldn't climb out of there. My honor. Just completely deceived. It was heartbreaking.

Like, in that wonderful episode 10 scene, you know, when Lani said, like, my sacrifice means nothing to you. And we, I believe every single word that Luton said in response, which is, I said, I said, think about you constantly and I do. Your investment in the rebellion is epic, a double life, everyday performance, the stress of that. We need heroes, Lonnie, and here you are. He believed that. He knew it was true. He knew how important it was. And then he still made this decision because the moment had come and he was always the person who said to, whether it was Claire or Cass or anyone, Mon, there's always something else you can do. And he believed that until the moment that he put that bleeder into his gut. And even then, that was his version of, there's always something you can do.

I can prevent them from taking me. Now, I would have gone for the jugular. Personally, I have some notes coming on that. But people fail. That's our curse. Also, I feel like there are slacier things in that maybe he picked something that was not quite as slacy, so it wasn't as obvious what he was about to do with it. But he just picked up a blaster. This is one of the suspicious items, you know, but this is like really cool crystalline kind of like knobby blade, you know, she wasn't like. She wasn't like, I'd like you to not be holding the weapon. So in that sense, it worked. It's dull, cousin, it'll hurt more.

I bet it hurt a lot. Okay. Oh, man, Dedra. It is time for one of the most anticipated meetings in recent television history. This is just incredible. Not since Cyril and Cassian, oh wait, oh, no. Yeah. This is the cat and mouse moment we deserve, though.

So reminiscent of that, right down to Deidre's obsessive. obsession, blinding her to the right way to do this. Of course, we get the exact opposite of who are you? It's like, and I've known you all along. So some variants inside of our parallelism. What a show. We cut before we get to the Dedra Luton meeting to Clea, who is hurriedly recounting and repeating all of the things that Luton has told her. The fuel from Gorman, the Basin's Geyrath, Geiber from Jedok-Krenich, engineer, Gaileners, so superwebun, boom, boom, boom, boom. boom, boom. And she wants to be the one to go do the burn. And Luthon insists that it be him, tells her not to argue, just be waiting for me, just be there. By the way, two things.

Number one, she's like, I would be faster. Yeah. Right. And I think she would have. I think she would have been faster. And I think she would have answered, she would not have answered the door. And she would have slipped out the back. And it would have been different. Um, but also, slipping out the back probably doesn't help. I feel like they're posted there. I feel like there has to be another way out. I don't know. Probably.

Anyway, um, make your way out before you go in. I just really believe that Kalea would know how to get the fuck out. She would go in the vents. Like, you know, um, I, my question is, did she go to the safe? You know, he's like, be waiting for you there. Did she go there and then like, time, it was enough time that she came back to look at the ambulance, take him away, or did she disobey that order? and go back to the showroom.

The help. That's when she saw the ambulance. Before we get there, though. I loved the visual. They linger here. And then they went back to it, but the visual of like, looks like Mercury.

Yeah. Like oozing into Clayah's switchboard. Yeah. The way of which Clay's Switchboard, which has been such a pleasure of a, like, piece of production design to watch, for all of Andor, the fact that it becomes this, like, key plot point here. But also, I was just thinking about, like, the metaphor of this, like, you know, burning ooze into, like, I can go either way.

And that usually means that I'm overreaching. But, like, is this the, like, corrosive spread of the empire into things like burning and sizzling and rotting? Or is it the, you can't hold back the tide spread of the rebellion. Break the siege. Yeah, exactly. The way in which it was like these little, you know, plugs and cogs made me think of like Cyril Karn's cubicle, made me think of like very empiric, like, sort of law and order and regiment. And it's just this like, here we come. It's the rebellion.

We're going to fuck shit up. I don't know. Either way, beautiful image. I love it. I love the visuals here and I loved the sound, the way that the, I mean, like you noted, the score is just fantastic. throughout so many of these scenes. And the way that the soundscape here shifted from the surging score into the doorbell ringing, I was just like, oh, shit.

Oh, my God. And the way that you see Luton, see who it is, and smile before we even, it's not even like she doesn't turn around. We don't even see what's on the other side of that door. Right. But he's put on his smile. Here he goes. The mask.

It's a fucking dead drop. Oh, my God. When she turned around, it was like genuine chills. Just great, great, great, really rewarding stuff as a viewer and fan of the show. He waves her in. She's not like, sorry to her clothes. Gives her this like a feet hand and she like grabs it and shakes it. And they've just got these smiles on and this fake smile that we've seen from Luthen, obviously that mask.

But like to see it on DEDRA, but we've already talked about the actresses talked about her downturny mouth and something like that. So to watch her smiling as they play this little game is really fun. I thought this was riveting, absolutely riveting, the dance. When are they going to let the mask slip? Who is going to say the thing out loud first? All of the moments and lines that are not only just so charged, but so soaked with double meanings as we go. The false pleasantries of just like, oh, I've always passed by.

here and it's so peaceful. But then, like, what is she really saying? You were here, right? You were here all along. And we think back to, like, Cassian imploring Luthin to leave and saying you can't stay here. They're going to find you. And Cassian was right. They did. But also, it's a moment to, like, reflect on the genius of Luton hiding in plain sight like this, not only the shop on Corrasson being so close to the ISB, these people who are hunting for him. But one of the great thrills of getting the backstory with Clay on Luton and seeing, like, this journey to using antiquities is the The way that they ended up getting access to these halls of power, it's just like all of it came together here and was just so wonderful.

And Detra asks, you know, is everything here real? I loved this part. It's so funny. The little chuckle from Lutheran, as he said, oh, at the moment, only two pieces of questionable providence. Providence in the gallery. Any guesses? He shows with the blade.

So the genius of like using this as a front to get the weapon that he will stab himself with into his hand. But obviously the fact that he is talking about both of them. The two of them. Yeah. Delightful. Thrilling. She's got something to show him. Okay.

I'm obsessed with this moment. So she brings out she has her little case with her, right? Her little like 90s case with her. She brought her schoolbox. Yeah. She pulls out. the Star Path Unit from Ferrix and she slams it down. But what is so brilliant about this moment is the sound design?

I was thinking a lot about there's this moment. I know you know it well because you watch it every year in Fellowship of the Ring when Ganolf takes the envelope that has the ring in it and he sort of like dumps it out. Or is it when, no, it's when Bilbo drops the ring in Bag End and it hits the floor with this loud clunk. That is unworldly. Like this item would not make this sound. And, you know, they talked in, you know, the making of fellowship that they, like, magnetized it so that it would just sort of, like, hit the ground heavier. And then they did this thing on the sound design to reverb it, just to make you feel how heavy this thing is.

So when she slams it down, like, she slams it down with force. But the sound it makes is not a natural sound. It is a reverberation. And the similar-ish thing happens. when Krenick puts his finger on the top of her head. It is like a sound design thunk of like, here it is, come,

like, it's come for you. And the connections that this arc draws between Dedra and Luthrin, and this idea that like, thunk, here comes the Star Path unit for you, Luthen,

and thunk, here comes Krenick's pointer, gloved pointer finger for you, Dedra Miro. is one of my favorite details inside of this arc. I just thought it was brilliant. I love that. Oh, man.

And it makes me think then because you use the word reverberation of how we've talked about the banging of the anvil on pharix. And then that connects to one of your opening points about these contrasts inside of similarities. Like for the rebellion, even in its nascent budding state, when Marva talks about that sound of what is. it means when you hear it, that's a reckoning, and it's a sound of hope, and it's a sound of fellowship and unity. Your neighbors are going to be there to come and help and stand by your side, and that the reverberating sounds for the empire means that something is ending.

Yeah. That something is ceasing, stopping. Oh, like the differences in those declarations of intent, that's incredible. Ah, you're the best. You're the best. I just love thinking about pharynx, too. Like having the star path, like this thing that began at all. The thing that okay, Bix, your buyer, you know, I've got this thing. It brought all this convergence. Like, obviously, sort of what happened on, you know, Morlana 1, but it ports us back in time in a way that I was really grateful for and loved. And, I mean, the presence of Farrix throughout. Oh, you know what we haven't talked about yet?

I saw on social that the hand thing, that it is Farrix. Oh, it is. Yeah. Stone and sky, baby. Stone and sky. Oh, my God. Dedger's like it's time for my villain's speech, and I will not be denied. I've been practicing it.

I've been dreaming about it more times so I can count. I've got it all prepared. I absolutely loved this. Hiding in the shelter of imperial peace, she says to him. Kind of the opposite of the you're in my net moment with Bix, where she was really like, I have you, I have you in my control, I see you, I know you're here. And the Luthan response, and I've known you all along, hardly seems fair. I loved the way that neither of them shrunk from each other even for a second. I mean,

Luton has the, there's the stillness and the quiet when he sees the star path, but then he is ready and he is ready to tell her what he thinks of her and what he thinks of the empire. And she is ready, of course, to do the same in turn. And I loved, not only that this gives us this kind of contrast to the Cyril Cassian, who are you, but like, what I really loved about, And I've known you all along, hardly seems fair, is that, like, okay, this is in theory of the moment where Dejra wins. She has found him after the five-year hunt. She is about to take him into custody. It's over.

And he is saying to her, you didn't beat me. I beat you every single day. I was ahead of you every step. And I just fucking loved that. He's ahead of her right in that moment because here she is. She's caught monologuing. She needed her speed of her. Happens to the best of us, Debra.

It really does. She needed her. Like, if she had just sent the tactical team in, she probably could have, like, stopped. I mean, they, you know, that incredible imperial agent, who we'll talk about later on the switchboard, figured out how to use its intel anyway. Need a spinoff. Absolutely. But, you know, she didn't notice the sizzling on the switchboard until a while.

So he bought time for that mercury to seep into the switchboard with his theater. but her theater that she needed to do this, like, you know, big grand moment, like, if she just sent the tactical team in, like, she would have just snapped him up. I'm not rooting for her to be clear, but I'm just saying, but like how poetic that it's her need for, you know, having told, you and I both wrote in our notes this idea that, you know, she talked to here. She's like, doesn't have to be mean. I don't need the glory. You can have the glory.

She definitely did. And she waited for his off-day. That might have been the single best detail of his entire fucking. thing is he's like you, when you're talking about here, it's like you waiting for my day off. But to go back, to go back to what she says, to go back to what she says about hiding in the Shelter of Imperial Peace, I had my notes. Yeah. And I, I, maybe my brain just filled it in.

But I had my notes, the Shelter of Imperial Peace and Quiet. And quiet. Yep. And I was thinking about that. And so I was like, thinking about that line. And so I flipped to the end to when we see her in, is it Narcina? I don't know, Narcina-esque, you know. Same cell.

Same jumper. Yeah. I mean, it looks like, I'm just like, is it that structure on a different location? I don't know. But let's say it's Narkeena for simplicity. It's quiet. It's peaceful in there, you know, and that's where she is. And how are you enjoying that imperial peace and quiet?

Totally. Oh, my God. I really loved that the episode made the inevitability of people watching her home being like, Deirdre! Not that they're rooting for her, like you said, but like, why are you? Why are you speech? Fine. Just do it.

Active text in the Krenic scene later. Just like that was harrowing to watch. But it was important that somebody say to her like, why did you go in there alone? The hell is wrong with you? I thought that was great that we actually got that in the episode. With your little prop that you've been hanging on to for... Speaking of props. Speaking of props.

It is the thrill of my life. Two notes that Deidre Miro has gone to Whigwatch Corner with you. Joanna, the floor is yours. On the one hand, it's a thrill of our lives. On the other hand, are you not in the depths of despair thinking about the fact that Dejomiro never got to see the wig that they put on Luther Roll in the flashbacks?

She doesn't deserve to. It's just for us. She says that he wants chaos, not freedom, to ruin the galaxy, and run back in quote, his ridiculous wig. Genuinely, welcome to wigwash Corner. We've been wild stuff. We welcome all comers, even fascistic ones.

We want you to go to prison. But while you're in prison, you can think about wings all the time if you want to. That's very generous of you. We're thinking about Nemek, because how can freedom as a pure idea, which we will hear later when part of guess is fucking, holy shit, listening to Nemek's manifesto, which is spread across the galaxy. See? Luton is like the thing that, because she says that he discussed her, he says the thing that scares her is freedom, right? She tries to turn it around you on chaos, not freedom. But I love that,

again, this dance, he just goes right back to like how confident you are, how confident and terrified. This idea of the empire being scared, the fragility of that hold on power, the brittleness of it as we hear from Nemek. And it made me think back to, like, episode three of season one, this recruitment with Luton and Cassian, the empire, they're so fat and satisfied they can't imagine it, that someone like me would ever get inside their house, walk their floors, spit in their food, take their gear. And Luton responded to Cassian saying that by saying, their arrogance is remarkable, isn't it? Like, this has always been on Luton's mind, the arrogance of the empire as not only a thing. fueling the empire's greed and thirst for power, but ultimately the thing that would be there undoing,

which is what we watch across these episodes and across Rogue 1. Daddard's swaning in, but like confident and terrified, I loved because you mentioned earlier, I think you described Clea as frantic. That wasn't really my read on her. She seems so focused. She has such clarity of purpose, especially like, you know, she's devastated when Luther gets taken,

but we watch her go through that hospital with such clarity of purpose, and she's just go, go, go, go. I would only say frantic in the, I've been waiting for a while for someone to respond to my message. Is anyone coming? Yes, yes. Cool, calm focused until then, for sure. I was thinking of the Narcina arc line from Cassian,

Power doesn't panic. And I was just thinking about that throughout these episodes. There's just like all these moments where we watch the Imperial Forces panicking or, you know, some members of the council in Yombe and panicking. But when Clayah's message comes into Yavin, like Will and Cassie and Melchian, like Kay is anxious because of the rules. But like they're focused and they're purposeful and they're going forward. And it's the baddies who are panicking inside of all of this. The look on Partigas face when they can't get the feedback.

Yeah. I mean. But even like Partigas talking, even in the cooler calmer collected, Partigas talking to Krenigas talking to Krenik's. scene. So good. You know, they're being smooth and Krenick, Krenick is being like, you're fucked. I can't protect you, Leo, right? You're fucked.

Part of guys. Part of guys like, I think you're fucked. Yeah. He's like, save your sermon for the emperor. You know, good luck to us both. You're fucked, you know? And so there's just like, this information got out and, oh, shit, we're panicking. Here's response to what's happening is just like this, make sure.

Sure they know it was Dejra's fault. Everybody's ass covering. Everybody's trying to make it another day. And DeNor's like, Mommy's best friend here, you know, ever heard of him? Frankly, incredible stuff. I really loved how Penny she was. In that absolute higher circumstance, there's still time to dunk on here. Great stuff.

Great stuff. Email from R.G. How do we think Cyril's absence impacted Deidre's increased fanatical need to scavenge for Luthin? Yeah. What do you think about this? I'm not saying, you know, like. I'm just saying Dedra was not making

fondue for Edy you know what I mean? All she was doing was perseverating over paperwork and she puts together all of these clues. This is what we hear talk to Krenick about and it's just sort of like I'm not saying like she wouldn't have figured this

out but without even the slightest splinter of a home life that she used to have now she's just like you know. Yeah. Dead to rights on this.

I think that's really interesting because like obviously even when she got the Gorman assignment, she was like, actually I just really want to keep working on Axis. And then when here it got the access desk and she was like so enraged that he didn't consult her. And she never stopped thinking about it or perseverating over for a moment. But as soon as Gorman ended and, you know, our last image of her there is the clawing at the, at the neck and shaking hands. And yeah, like without.

that mission and with the thing that she carried after the mission and then without Cyril, and we're going to talk about this more as we go here, but without the, without the fulfillment of the false promise of this hero's welcome, all there was was the obsession and the scavenging to try to find the thing that would allow her to win. And Luther tells her it's too late. It's too late. The rebellion isn't here. anymore. It's flown away. It's everywhere now. There's a whole galaxy out there waiting to disgust you. This was incredible, another one of the best lines here. Here's another candidate. This was just fantastic. And like, you know, we're the spark that lights the fire. Like, fire spread, right? They grow.

That's what they do. And the idea of the rebellion, and this is so central in Nemek's speech, like that it's already everywhere. People don't even know what they're a part of. And to hear Luther talking in this way too. Like, it makes us simultaneously feel the progress of the rebellion and the point that we are at in the timeline of the canon, but also kind of like the eternal truth of this thing, right? I thought this was just great. And it really made me think as well of, again, Marvaa, the way that she talked about the

sound of the people of Farrix ringing those bells and, like, the dawning of the reckoning and the announcement of this intention. I was thinking of Firefly and Serenity and this idea of, like, you know, you know, you You can't stop the signal, Mal. Not you, Mallory Rubin, but you can't stop the signal now. Like, it's too late. It's already out there, right? And, yeah, this idea of, like, disruption and, like, a fire that catches and spreads

or a mercury ooze that sizzles, like, this idea, this false notion that a fascistic government or a fascistic regime brings peace and order. And the idea of like, don't you want it calm, don't you want it quiet? Don't you not want to make, you know, throw in with these rabble rousers, these terrorists, these whatever the case may be. We're offering peace and calm to you. All you have to do is submit to the boot on your neck. And I, you know, it's the false narrative that that fascism tries to sell you. And I just, and it comes for, comes calling for Detrimer.

in point does it. Boy doesn't. So does that sizzle from the back room. She realizes what's happening. Luthan turns, stabs himself in the gut. Would have gone from the neck, as stated. I'll say it once more. I really feel like this was a miss.

But so it goes. I did love the way that Luton, who, again, won't go to Yavin, doesn't think it's for him, is as at odds with other leaders in the rebellion, as Saw was in prior seasons, you know, Luton being the guy who said to Saw, like we'd be stronger together and then finds himself so on the outside the pride that he took in telling her that the rebellion was everywhere that it was out of her reach was just such a cool

final little victory for him to get to enjoy and relish. I really loved that he got that moment before the med kit was placed over the gaping wound in his stomach and he was sent on a gurney to the hospital. A great floaty gurney. It wasn't a great floaty gurney. I do want to echo something that Ben wrote in his recap and I had it in my notes as well. which is like I've read enough spy stories to wonder why Lutha doesn't have cyanide capsule in his tooth that he could just bite down on. But then we wouldn't get Clayah breaking into the hospital. So I'll take it. Maybe he's like a tooth grinder. Maybe that's how he works through his anxiety.

Could that be it? Sure. He needs a mouth guard and he needs a cyanide capsule. Clea? watching him go with tears in her eyes and her little spy hoodie up. She at least puts the hoodie up, you know? She's always ready. Always ready with a murder cloak or spy hoodie, yeah.

This queen among mortals. Or medical scrubs that she stole. Just fucking legend always. You had better right. You know, I love Lutheran, but like he has literally since the beginning been talking about how his death was inevitable as part of this. So, you know, yeah. Stop.

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New sweet green wraps hit different. Order now at order. Com. Panic at the ISB before we get to the hospital. Here it arrives. The meeting's already been canceled because of everything that's happening with Edra and Luthin and Partagaz is like, ye, she's had a problem with boundaries. We know it.

She knows it. You know it. She did get access. He's very badly wounded. And here it's like, I'm here because Lonnie's dead. I have news. Wait for my news. I love the quiet.

What? Some part of gas. It's like gas. Part of gas is across the. these episodes confronting the fact that the thing he has poured his entire life to is crumbling in front of him in real time. Incredible performance as usual. As always. Oh, I'll miss our partogasms. Great character. Anton Lesser, what are you doing next? We will watch it. That was a cool moment on the watch when Gilroy was like, I just had to give him a moment to have the stage to himself.

Yeah. It's like, yeah. That's when you know you're fucking cooking. Back at the gallery, the ISB, CSI, setting up shop. Do you know what CSI is called in England? No, but I would love to. It's, well, it's Soko. Scene of Crime Officer, I think, is what it is. But one time I was in London and we had a break in in the flat and they're like, oh, well, Soco will be here soon.

I was like, Soco, what did you just say? It sounds like a sock puppet. Like a hacky sack thing. Soco will be here soon. It's great. I love it. I love that I know this now. At the hospital, Dedra is observing Lutheran.

And, you know, we get a lot of just quiet, casual savagery and menace from Dedra, including when the doc is like, hey, you can't close down the hall while if my patients are here. And Dejra says that I'm sure he'll do a better job of moving them than we will. Just incredible way to remind us that the quality of life in the galaxy is not what Deidro Miro is focused on. Not at all. Not at all. Here it arrives. loved this scene.

This was great. I love that, okay, so Tony Gilroy in several interviews on Star Wars.com, they talked about it, the set design of this hospital, which I believe is based on Lloyds of London, but it's, it's this like U-shape. So you can see a cross and they just sort of like faked it. It's one floor that they designed and they just sort of like faked it for all the floors. But the fact that Dedra can see here arrive in the, elevator from across the way before he gets there. So we see her sort of like prepare herself for

that is so good. And the fact that like this is so believable that here it's like, let's get to the bottom of this and let me rush to blame everything on you. And then it also draws them both away from the room so that Clay can ultimately like get in. But it's like a really believable draw away from the room. So yeah. I thought the thing that that that horseshoe shape and the ability to see a cross reminded me of was Narcina. And the way that when, you know, the groups are lining up, like, this idea of just how information travels and how a thing that you glimpse, whether it's somebody actively trying to sign and communicate with you or just your, like, upstart former aide who's

now trying to take you down and have you arrested. And when you're like, I'll call, I'm going to call party guests. He's like, who do you think sent me? Let's go. You're under arrest is coming for you. This idea. This idea. of insight at a distance and just that moment to prep is really like a cool part of the framing, especially in comparison to what you've noted about, like, the walk toward the cameras for like these individual focuses. Like, when are we the eye and when is somebody else the eye of like what is coming? I just like really is so many fascinating little bits of staging across these episodes. It also makes what we're about to watch Clea do like all the more impressive,

given that she's doing it in this sort of like panopticon-esque, yeah. Yeah, building where everything, it's just clear glass everywhere. It's wild. Clayah goes to the safe house, and it's a wet, crumbling mess, not in good shape, hasn't been occupied for a hot second. That floor, at least a level below looked lovely still. That's so wild to me. That couple is just living in a totally normal apartment right underneath an absolute wreck.

I guess something's dripping through, yeah. Good insulation? On the set design, production design front, I love that they had to like design a beautiful, pristine version of the, like, ruinous apartment that they've been working with all season. I thought that was really funny. I loved that. Great stuff.

We're going to learn last how Clea and Luther came into each other's lives because suddenly as Clea is standing in the present time frame here, we hear blasters firing and we are ported into the past. Joanna, take me to wigwatch again. This is incredible. Okay. So, like, also, I mean, like, you know, know, Kalea we've already talked about as like, you know, an absolute icon. But just like,

she's given so much plot-wise, but also performance-wise. Like, this shot in the safe house is just like her standing there in frame in an incredible coat. But just like, and then her face, like, she's shaking. She's not panicking, but she is like absorbing this information. We hear the flashback before we see it, right? We're with her and we hear the sound of war. this whole thing is shot differently. Like we're immediately, not all the flashbacks are, but this first flashback is shot with like different lenses, different lighting. So we know that we're in this like other space.

We're hearing all of this like very traumatic thing. And then in comes Luth and Rao. And this is an email we got from our listener, Chase, who says, okay, I love Andor as usual, but I did have to keep saying to myself, de-aged, be-wigged, Stellans, Gar's Guard isn't real. He can't hurt you. is this what people mean when they talk about their sleep paralysis demons? That wig was the stuff of nightmares between the digital de-aging and yet another uniquely upsetting Luthan wig.

I immediately was the Leo pointing meme saying this is going to bother Joanna deeply, and I absolutely agree with her. We've read out of perfect indeed. So funny that they put that line in the script after the hair department shrugged and said it verbatim when they threw in the towel on that horrid semi-cru-cut. incredibly memo from Chase Thank you so much Chase really funny I do want to say

with love and respect to the wig department who've done an incredible job across and or I was watching you know they did these like

little day in the life on set videos like Genevue of O'Reilly posted one Diego posted one etc and Genevue O'Reilly as Monmothma

watching them apply the Monwig not to mention we'll obviously get to but the previous Maen wig. That's an incredible wig. Like, there's incredible wigwork on the show. This is just a moment that was not their finest hour. I would have gone for a longer swoopier cut myself and not, I guess they're going for military. Maybe put a helmet on him.

Maybe that's the good song. Put a helmet on this good stop. But then what he, with the passage of time have not been felt as keenly, one of the things I liked was the way the hair very, like, slightly changed across these four. Oh my God. It was so when we got to the one where it turned into a swoop, I was so relieved. I was like... You just made a swoop. So we're going to take these memories all together. The flashbacks all together.

They are intercut in a feat of editing brilliance with Clea's expedition to reach Luthen in the hospital. Climb. Yes. Fuck yes. We're going to take them all here. So this first one we're seeing like through her. position in the grate, his legs. We're hearing the snippets like you said. It's very clear that this is another planet, another people that are being destroyed, right? Taken. If you see anything,

move, kill it. Horrifying. And we see it. We see Luthan. We learn that his name is Lier, Sergeant Lear. And before we talk about the struggle that we witness, we have to talk about the name, Joanna. Okay, what's up, Babies? You sent us not only many wig emails, but also many Shakespeare. emails and I just see you and I really, really like you. So Jamie sent this one in. Little something for Shakespeare Corner. We got the reveal of Lutheran's surname being Lear. Obviously, Lear is an anagram for REL. But also, it got me thinking about Clea as Cordelia in the play. Lear has three daughters who all claim to love him, but in many ways see him as a means to an end and only Cordelia loves him purely. I was specifically thinking back to the moment Clea had with Vell in season one where

Vela asked what she had done for him lately. And Clea said, I don't need lately. I have always. Side note, that's when she's like, plates spinning, blah, blah, blah, incredible iconic Clayah moment season one. Okay, back to the email. If we look at Vell and Mon perhaps as Goneril and Reagan,

they look up to Luthin, up to a point, but they lost faith. They grew satisfied with how he did things. And in the end, only Clea was loyal to Luthen, not just the rebellion, the way only Cordelia was loyal to Lear. in the end. Love it. The Bard is always welcome.

Always. The professor is always welcome and the bard is always welcome. The idea of Mon and Bell is gone, Ronald Reagan really cracked me up. Very good. It's really, really good. And I got this email independent of, you know, and then Chris posed this great question to Tony

about like the children of Luton. Yes. And this idea, and he also sort of like scooped in Cassian and Will and like all this sort of stuff like that, like these, these rebels that Luthin sort of fostered and raised.

I thought that was a really brilliant observation from Christopher Ryan. Is it J. Ryan? C.R. C.R. Just another goat. So many goats. Wilman, C.R. Two of the great. That's how I feel about it.

I can't believe how much I'd care about Wilman at the end of this. Will is your Lonnie and that's great. I just fucking love Wilman. When Cassian told Will, like, I have bad news, Will. Luther's dead and then again put his comforting hand and like the back of his head and embrace him. I'm just so sobbing watching these two. Ferrix was a stone and sky.

I'm like God. Do you see the meme that was like Cassian saying, I have friends everywhere? And then next to it, it's Will with his ladies. And it says, I have girlfriends everywhere. Dude. Will is a swordsman, a lightsaberman. And I respect it. I do.

Loyal to Drainna. Loyal to Dorena. I did. I think. that the fact that the radio is under the bed, though, that he goes back home. And his girlfriend's like, what is this that I found under the bed? And it's a beeping radio because he's a loyal guy, friends everywhere. We are listening. But definitely like, certainly made me think of like hiding porn under the bed or something. And I was like, yeah, this is just one more way. It's not

Playboy. It's a radio. But it is one more way to remind us that Will is just always getting his dick whip. So good for him. Do you think that's what Cyril Karn had in his secret box? Was it a radio? Yeah, it was a radio. Yeah, a radio. That's what I thought. Oh, Cyril. I miss him.

Bad, baby. Wow. There we go. It's been a minute. It's been a minute. It has been. Luton is sitting here, Joanna. And he is saying to himself, kind of repeating, and then crying and then screaming,

make it stop. Make it stop. Rosh Nalutz in his, we can presume, native tongue. And then he hears the sound. He is so horrified by what is unfolding out there, this army that he is a part of. He has clearly already come to a moment and a point where he is unable to participate in this any longer. He is hiding. Fellow soldiers come in.

The captain comes in. What are you doing? Oh, I'm not. I have to reload. I had to. What do you want me to do about the, right? But then he hears this sound. And he opens the grade and he sees Clea, the girl who will become Clea.

The first moment of the shush to make sure she stays safe and then the building toward the grasping of the hand. Holy fucking hell. This was like amazing to just finally get the moment that they chose each other. I really, really, really have loved hearing Tony Gilroy talk about this in interviews. And the way that he described it in his interview with Dalton Ross at EW was she is his transformation. And that's a pretty unusual story to be able to tell. I loved that. She is his transformation. And he was already on the brink of something, of rejecting something and moving towards something. But what finally led to it, Joanna, a person. And I was thinking

of you and I was thinking of our guy, David Lindeloff had lost. And one of the things that, you know, he loves to talk about. And like, you always are, whatever you mentioned this on any of the pods, like, it's always such a beautiful thing. You know, what's the both satisfying and rewarding answer to a mystery or question, another person? And we've wondered for so long, like, How did Luthan become this guy? How did he choose to start doing these things and how did he get to this place? And he's been doing it for so long and we know that because of something like the equation I wrote. It's clear that it has been his life for a while.

But how did it start? And the answer is Claya. Thank you so much for invoking the greatest answer to a mystery is a person. But also like in that moment right before he does that, one of the, the one of his men who comes in to talk to him, says, I can't believe there are any of them left out there, but you don't want to be out here alone. And then he reaches a hand out to her.

And she hasn't been alone since until we find her in this episode, right? But you don't want to be out here alone. Like, it's a violent, scary world, and you want to be together. And he finds her, she finds him, they're together every, presumably almost every day since missions, you know, aside. And what is a Clea alone in the world? We talked about this a lot on the last of us. What's an Ellie alone in the world?

What's a Clayah alone in the world? And the answer is a badass is the answer. But also just like unmoored from, you know. Right. You need your anger. There's a ton of theorizing that Clea is Cassian's sister. And I just want to say. And Ben texted me about this and he was like, where are you in this?

And I was like vaguely possible, but not probable was sort of where I landed. And then given all the interviews that various people have given, it's like, it's a no. It's a no. This isn't Cassian's sister, but a spiritual sister of a kind. There's definitely a parallel to Marva discovering Cassian, Luther and discovering and Clea saw reaching out for Jin Erso. Like there are these moments of discovery for these kids. She does have the long curly hair that is similar to the young actress who played his sister.

And I will say, if they didn't want to draw this connection, it was perhaps I found out on Star Wars.com like sort of trivia for this week that they shot the market where we first see the first market where we see Young Clea and Luthin peddling their wares was shot in Black Park, which is the same exact place they shot the Canary Village. And I was like, guys, you invited this a little bit to your door. But the answer is no, but yes, in sort of like a spiritual way, I guess. Yeah. And I think that's ultimately more interesting and more satisfying for it to be that kind of

that parallel of experience and that parallel of theme and not just that they were like scooped up by these people and brought into this world, which they were and what a thing to share, but like that they came from these broken worlds, that these forces had destroyed. And so then I like thinking about that, you know, those two characters grown up having a conversation like the one they had last week slash last year, last week for us last year for them.

Yeah. When Cassian's like, I'm done and Clea says, you know, so it's a private thing, something I wouldn't understand. And now one of the things that has been so rewarding about watching Andor It's just like everything that comes before is enriched for us now with every further step we take. And so you go back to a conversation like that and her saying to Cassie, and you were a witness to the Gorman Massacre. One would think there'd be no stopping you. This is her Gorman.

What happened here? What happened to her family? What happened to her home? And like, we got a really incredible email that we'll get to later about Vell. And I didn't put this section of it in there. But this idea that, like, you know, Sinta gives Vell shit for being like a rich girl basically cosplaying rebellion to a certain degree. But this idea that Vell is a rebel, unlike so many of these other people, did not lose

her entire, like, Shindrilla is still thriving. And so did not have to like lose her entire home or lose all of this in order to be inspired into the rebellion. And we'll talk about sort of her inspiration later. But yeah, this idea that like, what did Cassie have to lose? what it will have to lose. What did all this people have to lose in order to find themselves here?

And it's a very strong uniting cause and it's not true for everyone, but it's true for Sinta. You know, it's really interesting. Some of us decided to do something about it, as Cassie and will say to Jen. Let's go into our second memory. We have a new lone wolf and cub in Star Wars, Joe.

Take me through it. Take me through it. I loved this. Luther and Claire, love a space cockney. We get a few of them in this stretch of the show. But I loved this woman with her thick eyeliner and her like smile. I'll give you this much of you smile. And Claire was like, no smile.

Fuck you. That was incredible. I loved that. I love this like origin for, you know, their whole cover that, like, from the start, we see how they started in this way. And we got this really interesting email from Jess about like, she sent it before this arc, just sort of thinking about Clay and Lutheran and the antiquities trade. You already mentioned the way in which that can bring them inside of people's homes,

but Jess wrote, as a museum professional currently working in an art gallery, I prefer the term Galleria personally. It's a wonderful to watch Clay represent my field in Andor. I can't stop thinking about how well primed we are to engage with subterfuge and resistance. After all, we are a bunch of fluid liars who are able to both schmooze with wealthy clients and bond with artists at all stages of their careers. Our institutions are, as we're seeing in America today, frequently targets of fascist regimes,

because we promote empathy, historical, contextual awareness, critical thinking, looking, and creativity. Perhaps because of this, the museum field has a long history of active resistance. We are the people who protect the art, even when we can't protect the artists. A notable example is when the art collections of the Louvre were vacated in their entirety and hidden in chateaus outside of Paris in order to keep them from Nazi occupation.

and just goes on to talk about sort of like her current state. But I just thought that I had never really occurred to me. And I think that's like a really beautiful this idea. Well, I think we probably did talk about this a little bit in season one when we were really focusing in on this idea of like cultural specificity. Yep. There's a way, of course, we would look askance at certain museum institutions for stealing antiquities from various cultures. That is certainly the case. I don't think that's what Jess is talking about here.

But the way in which in Luthan's case, this is about like treasuring, you know, even when he shows the dagger. And he's like probably ceremonial. This is his provenance, all this sort of stuff like that. Like, it's about celebrating unique cultures in contrast to the way in which the empire chooses, looks to flatten and homogenize. And that's also a really interesting element in the brew. Brew? Brew? Brew.

I did that for you. A brew? A brew? Thank you, my darling. You're welcome, my dearest. A little Baltimore slipping through a brew. I am not a daughter of Farrex, but I am a daughter of Baltimore and daughters come up here. Is your daughter?

Yeah. An old-timer transition. Get out. Trying. They haggle. We reached the press. Hopped on that segue and just, like, wrote it into the next section. I love that.

That's my long walk into the next bullet point. When they leave, having secured their prize, Clayah asks about this. Am I your daughter now? When it's useful, Lutton says. And Clea, a fucking badass from the word go replies, I have to think about that. I know.

Amazing. I just absolutely loved this. This exchange was great. We'll be whoever we have to. It won't always be up to us. I'm Luther now. You're Clea. everything else is up for grabs.

This entwinement and like tangling in a way that is both naughty and complicated, but also like the specific brough of their relationship and their story and their history and their life of like affection, that actual forming of a relationship like that with purpose, need, what suits us when, understanding how that was a part of the way that they talked about, their bond with each other from the start, and then you build towards just the way that they are looking at each other at the end when it's all on the line. It's like there's kind of no doubt what they are to each other at the end. But they espouse this idea of like, you know, because like in a second we'll see Luton just like abandon her in the middle of this like chaos in the

marketplace. Like they espouse this idea of like, you know, similar to the Jedi, this idea that attachment is dangerous and stuff like that. And they would certainly counsel. felon sin to that way or bix and kathy in that way you know what i mean like that's not what we're here for but at the end of the day they can say whatever they want to say about the nature of their relationship like they are bonded pair they feel the way they feel about each other yeah yeah i love seeing that that like luthon would fear that forming for other people but then of course be experiencing it himself because how could you be alive otherwise this is really people we found uh that's our curse um i was really interested in what gilm

Roy said about like just flat out like I wanted to explain this so nobody else did. I thought this was, I thought this was great. This was also in the EW interview. He said, I think our curiosity about that relationship is, about what that relationship is about is huge. I wanted to make sure that everybody wasn't writing a story about that, that I didn't want them to write. That's always present. I didn't want anyone to think there was anything sexual or anything romantic or anything weird or anything confusing. I really wanted to define it before anybody else tried to define it. it. If you don't define it, somebody else will. And I like thinking about this in a couple ways. Like, there's just what what people consuming the story might take from it once it's

theirs. And if you don't tell them a specific thing, they'll maybe think something else. But also, like, if I don't answer this in my Star Wars story, someone else will in their Star Wars story one day. Yeah. We got so many emails about this about, like, do we want to spin off for, for Vell, for Clea, for this, for that, for the other thing, for Bix and her kiddo? Like, most of all. And I think most of them, most of the emails were like, I kind of don't want anyone else to touch. I don't want to see a Vell story where Vell isn't written as well as she's written here, you know, sort of thing. And I kind of feel similarly to a certain degree. This is, this is Tony's world. That's how I feel. And if Tony wants to get a couple years

rest and then come back and give us a Clea spymaster story, spy master of the rebellion story. Did. Clayah and Vell, we ship it, obviously. Clearly. Who then sometimes visit Bion Bix. Yes. It was so clear to me that Vell was in touch. Yeah. She's like, that's what I hear. I'm like, you mean that's what you hear when you go to meet around and you go see her? Yeah. Great stuff. Joe, take me into more your thoughts about this third memory when they witness while trying to move the Devereonian victory necklace bearing them. And then the empire brings down the citizens for public execution, including a child. Yeah.

Clayah does not move, stares the truth of the empire in the face, and losing bounces. This is so interesting to me because I actually don't know what the right answer is. And I guess in a rebellion, you need both. But like, here is Clea activated by empathy. And she refuses to look away. Even as like, not just Luth and leaves, but there's that like alien creature binders, like sitting cross-legged with the hat. and he sort of like turns his hat down so he's not looking at it anymore.

And Clay doesn't flinch and she looks. Yes. And there's something heroic about that. And there's something galvanizing about that. And like, so that that's compassion. And then before we get to Nebu, I will say, side point, these public executions, these like performative cruelties that the, like, the, like, it's like pageantry of evil that the empire keeps insisting on.

and it, you know, it gets back to Clem being strung up or Will's dad, you know, it's just sort of like this, these public performances of oppression and evil is in many cases. And what happens in Gorman is many cases what gets them at the end, you know. And so Clay is activated here by what she sees. And she goes to talk to Luthon about it, you know, and he talks about like, we'll start, you know, we fight to win. That means we lose and lose and lose until we're ready. All you know now is how much you hate. Think that, you hide that. You keep it alive until you know what to do with it. And when I tell you to move, you move. So like, he leaves her there.

He's like, you're on your own, right? You're all alone here watching this. And, like, again, that's that idea of like you're alone. We're together, et cetera. But he tells her this. On the one hand, we're like, Luthin's wrong to walk away. this moment. She's right to stare down

what is happening to not flinch away. But then later, when they blow up the, when they're sitting in this cafe and a boo and Lutheran's gonna look great. It looked delicious. She didn't touch it. She went from, I'm hungry to I'm not eating this ice cream. Because they're about to do a,

I was going to say a terrorism, a rebellion. Like, he tells her to not look. Right. Because looking means she knows what's going to happen and so they don't look. Yeah. So that they can, you know, have plausible deniability of like what just happening.

But it's also this idea of like burning your decency, right? It's like this idea of like the walk away, the look away, the lack of immediate empathy is for the cause of long term empathy and healing and for a world that we don't get to participate in. But like, we look away now so that people don't casually look away forever. And, like, watching her little Clea in that cafe, first he tells her to look around. Yes. Look around. See what's, you know, what's at risk here. And she sees this, like, little boy with, like, maybe his grandparents or something like that.

And it's just sort of like, here's another kid who gets to live this, like, very, you know, peaceful child. Like, am I going to take that away? Yeah. This is not, I'm not going to take the way, but also that's just not available to her. Yeah. That's just like not ever who she's going to be. But I just, I just think this is a really interesting juxtaposition of like, and I think they are both right.

And I think it goes back to what you need in a rebellion and you need the Luthens and Cleas who have ice in their veins. And then you also need the Cassian Andors who is like, I'm not leaving you in this safe house. You're coming with me. Fire and his heart. Yeah. I love that. I love that. I love that. I love the way that all of these flashbacks built into each other and like how it's just, you know, it's ultimately like quite an economical way of showing us their history for moments and time, a couple minutes in each scene, but to understand the evolution, not only of like their relationship with each other, but of that kind of, yeah, of that like that creed, you know, when Luton is, I mean, not only are we getting the birth of move there, but like when Luton is saying, uh, the, it.

All you know now is how much you hate another contender for a single line of the, I mean, and like thinking of like, thinking of Cleo this whole time and like her performance as someone who was just like masking, seething anger. Right. Under this calmer facade. Yeah. You know, it's really instructive. Yeah.

Yes. I love that. And like, this is the equation, right? This is what he's talking about. what they what they what they what they forge with each other here this like packed and this this way of life and the differences in their perspectives to your point and also the things that they'll agree to abide by together their contract their code their vow like I wake up every day to an equation I wrote 15 years ago and here it is and what a cool thing for us to get to see um I loved on the cafe and

the Nibu memory first of all very cool to be back in the boo it's always always great um You need to pay attention. Life shows us what we stand to lose. Unbelievable. And very related to what we were discussing a few minutes ago because this is a guy who can say all he wants to the person across from him to himself to all of the other people he's going to recruit and run. Not to get attached. But he's looking at the thing that he could lose too. He doesn't want. He, like, the way that he said, you know, the only thing I'm afraid of is what I'm doing to you. He doesn't want to lead her down this path. He doesn't want to corrupt her in this way. He knows what this is going to do.

Share my dreams with ghosts. That's not what he wants for her because he already cares. And we can feel that so much in the way that he is looking at her there. And I thought, like, the putting the sliding of the detonator. And it's like a test and a choice and a declaration that she should get to choose. and also a burden that he will carry for a little while longer. Yeah, yeah. When he presses it instead,

there was just so much packed in to that little exchange. I really, really loved. He's like, here we go, we made our choices. Really loved. Gilroy said to Megan O'Kee, fit decider, of this stretch and what we learn about their relationship through these memories, the young girl is actually the dominant one.

She's actually in control. Luton's not in control. otherwise it runs some risks that you can imagine of manipulation. You really had to find and design those scenes really carefully and then find a girl who could really believably bring the steel that older Clea has. Bring the steel. I love that. Great casting. Yeah, really good.

Really, really, really, really, really, really good. And we go then now in our pod, but again, these are intercut throughout to the present day. Joanna, take me through Clea's infiltration of the hospital. Okay. So before we get to the hospital, we get the like determined stride out from the safe house. Again, Cassie and we'll do this walk later, but we get the stride to camera. She's sort of like, she's got a scarf around her head, like off to do what she needs to do. By the way, before she does that, when she like pulls out the bag that has the lock pick and the detonator and stuff like that, and then later when we see her break the radio out of the wall, I just want to shout out, Clay is wearing like, leather pants and boots and just like, yeah, dynamite. The coolest person ever looks amazing. Looks incredible while she's going through the worst emotional turmoil of her life.

The fit is great. Okay. Oh, man. So here we go. She goes into the hospital. Someone, I think it was on Blue Sky responded to me. I posted something about, like, I'm ready for CSI, Corrassant. And they were talking about how we got like a police procedural.

and like a hospital procedural inside the same episode. I was like, oh, yeah, these trappings of classic television. Here we are. That's right. Welcome to the pit in Corrason. Here we go. But, like, you know, we already talked with the layout and what that means for her infiltration. She's in these scrubs.

She's taking this long climb up and up and up all the floors that she can go to, you know, to get to him. I love the person she stole. Oh. He was like, eh? She thinks. Number one, there's a closed captioning later when she leaves her of like, it just says granny scatting. It's iconic.

Also, thanks starwurst.com, reminded me that we saw these old ladies on Nemos, aka Space Miami. So we've seen these babes before hanging out in Space Miami. You think she likes to crush some pieces? Wash it down with some Revnog? She loves the. Granny likes to party? The blue and green ones.

Also, one other detail is the galactic muzac that plays in the elevator as they go up. Great touch. Also, what? Also, we got an email about this, but I had already, trust me, as a child of the 80s, I had already written in my notes, nurse jelly, she's got jellies on her feet. And I think they're supposed to like invoke crocs, but to me, a child of the 80s, they looked like jelly sandals to me. For sure. For sure. And I just love

that we watch her go up, like innovate, kill people when she needs to, when she has the blaster behind the clipboard and just sort of coolly clips, like, she's that guy and then just like calmly sidesteps him as he tumbles,

his dead body tumbles down the stairs next to her. Yeah. Really, really incredible stuff. And like, as you point out in our notes, later when they're like, it was definitely a three-person team. definitely had to have been at least three people. And it's just fucking Clayia.

Kelaah. Killa, killing it. I love, like, thinking back now to Clayah being the one in the field to remove the bug from Davos installation in that great scene in episode six with Lonnie. Lonnie? Hero, the rebellion. Lonnie? Never happened. And Lonnie didn't touch. I don't know. I don't think so. And when Lonnie was like, you know,

what were you going to do if I wasn't here? And Clay, I said, anything I had to like not only now not only did a moment like that prepare us for seeing Clea and the field acting alone and getting it done here but now when we go back that's even richer because of what we have seen after I just like

the way that Andor just is like a pinging and building the whole way it's great when she entered Luther's room yeah she gets to the point here's what I love about this this is like a devastating moment she

she like you know pulls the lines essentially on the windows. And you think she's going to have a moment where she talks to him or says goodbye or cries of him and she will in a second, but immediately she uncouples the breathing

device from him. By the way, this is really cool production design on that respirator, but she just goes right for it. And she's like, that's what I was here to do. And she has the other thing she has to do. She has to get that message pass that baton on. She's

the things to do. But like, in theory, if she then takes a beat to cry over him, which she does, you know, that's just her getting caught. She's already, like, killed him, which was her mission. But I just love that she doesn't hesitate. But it doesn't mean she doesn't care. Right. And we get that. She'll agree with one of those times. Yeah. I love to let's just a little, like, a little kiss on the forehead, just quick tiny. And his little, like, grimace before his face sort of smooth out into just, like, peaceful repose. Joanna, he burned his life to make his sunrise that he knew he'd never see. I loved the way the episode closed just on Luthin.

Slow fade. This thing that Clea had to do, we'll hear Vell and we'll hear Vell and Clayah talk about it later and how hard it must have been. It reminded me a lot of Last of Us, like if somebody you love gets infected and you have to shoot them. And how horrible that would be and how painful that would be, but also like you know you're sparing them from a worse fate. than that and like that that was what clay i had to do here but by infiltrating of i think that is b also later later when cassian is like are you sure luthan's dead and she like flinches because it's like she doesn't say it but in that moment it's like yeah and i had to be the one to do it yeah my god it's time for episode 11 speaking of dead people

episode 11 is a like these are wild closes and opens for these episodes right we get a cliffhanger at the end of episode 11 yeah episode 10 slow fade out on the dead body of Luthen

and episode 11 opens with a shot of a dead stormtrooper on the ground and we just stay there with him for a moment when has the camera outside of like I don't know our introduction to Finn in Force Awakens when is the camera ever

lingered on like, because they're just cannon fodder, right? And there's really interesting, when we get to the Krennick Dedra scene, you have some interesting observation about the way in which Krennick is framed there, but I was thinking about later when the tactical team is showing up to the safe house, the imperial tactical team is showing up the safe house. We get all these shots of like fingers flexing, cheeks, toes tapping in the nerve sort of thing. And it was like almost this like very humanizing of the imperial forces that we're about to see k just sort of rip through but like you know they're evil people but they are people and we're used to just sort of stormtroopers being these they're not stormtroopers but we're used to stormtroopers being these like you know

shells like we don't think about the people inside them again until we meet ben but like this this idea of like these are people making this decision and they've got nerves and they've got this that and the other thing. And here's a dead stormtrooper on the ground. And he's a bad guy. We don't like fascists and we don't like stormtroopers. But, you know, there's a cost of fascism and it hurts everyone on both sides. So I just thought that was a really interesting moment. That's a great observation. It makes me think of the kids, the green boys who were tossed out there in Gorman last week slash last year. Yeah. Last year of Gorman. Chilling to hear here at M. Joy Dolly, who were beginning this investigation at the hospital, just kind of run through the list of like, you know, slap charges, two ASB driver's dead, one missing. Guards and hospital staff, too.

It's like they don't really know what the death toll is. That was sort of disturbing. Clay had killed a bunch of people. L.A. up on the hospital. That's a thing that we will just say and then we'll move on to the next point. This is where I hear just like. Granny's okay? Yeah, yeah.

Granny was clear of the blast. She wasn't near the ambulance bay. Okay, good. Granny's thriving. Just safe in a brightly lit room just saying, eh? Over and over and over again. Okay.

This is where here it's like, I need them to know that this was dangerous fault multiple times, which was very funny to me. I really enjoyed that. He is kind of like, I've spent a lot of time kind of mocking here. And I thought it was interesting, especially given that he's about, to say, like, I'll lead this operation personally to see him challenge the medical director reclaw when he comes in and he's just like, doesn't flinch at all, right? And he has that, the hubris and that arrogance of knowing that he's a part of the imperial machine. Oh, well,

if you're going to ask me a single question, that means, you're going to, you're here to stop me and you're like a threat to me and I will threaten to take your life away from you. And I will do it without function. I also thought it was really interesting to have director reclaw who comes in and he's like, how dare you do this to my hospital? How dare you close the door so we can help people? And then, oh, you're going to arrest me? Right. Immediately back down.

My freedom's a risk. What do you need? What do you need? Take home is like, my bottom line has been impacted by the rebellion. Tay, you got a new bottom line coming in it. You're going to see it when Senda turns the car over. Down at the bottom of the ravine. Rest in literal pieces, take home.

I think we're going to be very present in each other's lives until one or both. of us is dead. And I like the idea of like, you know, in our 70s, whatever the technology is, I don't know if it'll be texting. It just out of nowhere on like a Thursday. One of us text in the other. A mind meld you. Yeah, exactly. Just fired into my brain. Everyone's sent to turn the car over. I'm like dramatically disappointed in Chris and Andy for not asking Tony Gilroy about that. I know. I mean, that's just kidding. It was an incredible interview and I loved every second. But we don't ask a lot of Chris other than the, you know, 900 times a year where we text him and are like, can you ask this person this question about this thing?

And this was one of those 900 times. And he didn't do it. God damn it. Sure didn't. Here it has questions. And it's like, who were the three people, the three people who did this? When we talk about what spinoffs we want, I want this security guy. This guy killed me. It's like, I need to see out there by the bay up and it's not, do you have a second

choice? That's real important. He's like, I wouldn't sit there because I think his like coffee stuff was there. Like, it's really good. And his cousin. I was an application in at the ISV. Oh, my God. That was so funny and so good.

And they were cutting back and forth between scenes, but they're seeing repeatedly Clea head down, appointing the camera. And here, admiration, I think, in his eyes when he pieces it together. Like, whoa, holy shit. It was just her. Dedra is not there for this reveal because she is in an interrogation room. Much like the one that she once met young Cyril Karnan. And it was chilling.

Chilling to see her in this place, chilling to see how quickly she was discarded by the hideous, bashesist force that she had devoted her life to, chilling to see Krennick slowly walk into the control bay and turn off. Turn off the recording. The recording? You're like, I mean, turn off his body cam. Not great. Not good. Not good. And stride in.

And we're looking, the camera is positioned on Dejra's face as Krenner comes in behind her, but it seemed like she saw in the reflection. Yeah, 100%. And she like squared her shoulders and, yeah, like got herself ready. Man. Yeah. So this was where in this opening stretch before he leans down and whispers into her ear, like, say the word. And I'm like, Orson Krennick, you're a great villain. I love you. But death stars, two words. Before.

Did Chris talk to you about that? Chris texts on me about that. He's like, is death? Star one word. I was like, no. I was waiting for like, as was Stardust, like was the official copy book of Scariff that Stardust was one word. I was waiting for that maybe. But no, she said Death Star, definitely two words. Anyway. You know who doesn't know that? Tony Gilroy. Did you read the story that he told about his son? Yes. Yeah. Telling him that he needed to do the origin for rebellions or built on Hope Line. Incredible. Basically, if people didn't read this, Tony Gilroy is like, yeah, my son, was like, hey, how are you going to explain the origin of rebellions are built on? What do you mean? Cassian says to gin and blah, blah, blah.

And Tony's like, isn't that a thing people have said in Star Wars before? He's like, nope, you're dumb. Better fix it. Tony Gilroy's son, we salute you for all your work representing the Star Wars community. Anyway, I'm sure. Is that the son who was in the Maya Paper Game? That's his son in law, I think. Oh, no, you're right.

That's his son. Maybe. I don't know. What a contribution to the canon. Wow. Wow. I bet he was like, later he texted his dad, he's like, Death Star is two words, done.

Yeah. I hope so. I hope so. Chicago style. P. AP style. Everyone agrees. Death Star is two words. When Krenick first walked in, though, before he bent down to whisper, menacingly in

Dedra's ear, and before he poked to the top of her head, and before he grabbed her entire face and shoved her down into a chair, all fucking disturbing stuff in the sequence. This was where I really was struck by the framing because we see just from like, you know, the lip down. We don't see his face. Amazing. So we're not seeing any of his, such that it is with Orsyncratic, any of his humanity. We are seeing his cape and the sign of his rank. And we are seeing the mouth that is spouting this horror.

It's all politics and power and the trappings of imperial might. And then we have the opposite with Dejra, right? She is being stripped of this power. I mean, when she has the interaction with here, later, she won't have the sign of her rank at all. She doesn't have her code cylinders. Her hair is must. Her hair is must. The greatest sin of all.

Her hair is out of place. Oh, my God. Is that why I'm here for the murder of an ISB clerk? Clark. He says Clark. That's my reputation slits so precipitously. I love. Clarkville.

I love Ben Mendelssohn's chronic voice because he's doing this Imperial Toffee, like Taffy knows British accent, but he's an Aussie and it just comes through as well. So it's just like, it's ISB clock. Like I was just like, it was just like really, really good. Oh my God. Great stuff. He's the best. It's been really fun to have chronic in the show. Really, really, really, really, really fun. I like to like thinking back to just the Krenach, Dedra origin, and the way that, you know, he invoked Farrix and the failure of Farrix. And, like, even in recruiting her and saying, like, I want your assessment. I know that you've got one and kind of building her up. He was like, I'm going to remind you that I know how you failed.

And that dynamic and that power dynamic between them was, like, really top of mind for me watching this interaction here. And he's basically, like, running through the list of people who know about the Death Star, Partigast. Yeah, people I don't know. Legrette's brother who served on Scariff. That actually sounds like a potential. That was like, who can I implicate? Legrette, have you heard of him? Yeah, they're besties.

Think about it. Legrette, still standing at the end. Legrette gets a great moment. Boy, does he. Young had her coat cert. How? And she has an outrage. She's like, if he had it, he stole it.

I don't know that that makes her look much better, that her clearance was stolen by a fellow age. Yeah. And this entire, this entire sequence is incredible. Like, all of the information that she had access to and she's kind of like at first, you know, yeah, well, no, I had clearance for Gorman. Okay, how about all this other stuff? Galen, Orbital Progress assessments. A-Doo, the Jeddah working groups.

You know, some packets got mailed to my office by mistake. I should have returned them. I should have. And we're building and we're building and we're building toward her saying, you left me no fucking choice. I had to scavenge. I love this because, again, her panic face, right? Yes, I'm a scavenger, but I've had to be. First of all, if you say scavenger, I'm going to think about Ray.

Always. Love you, Ray. But, like, this idea, Dedra as, you know, she was always this outsider in the ISB room. She was always this outsider. We talked a lot in season one a little bit this season about, like, Deidre and Blevine is like the one black man and the one woman in this room. the way that they were pitted against each other and stuff like that. And her being like the only woman inside of this layer of imperial control is in itself worth remarking upon. But when we learned that she was raised in this imperial kinderblock, so like in this collection of like, you know, smarmy, you know, upper crust Brits, she came from nothing, right?

Like she, I love you, Upper Crests Brits. But, you know, like, she doesn't have family connection. She didn't probably didn't go to, like, you know, she's like, I wasn't an Oxbridge. Like, I didn't go to Eaton. I didn't know, like, I don't have the connections. I don't, yeah, I don't have any of this. I had to bootstrap my way up. And as a woman inside of this room of all men and all those other stuff.

And also, you guys are fucking incompetent. Because you tortured a guy to death instead of following through on the intel he was giving you about the Fondor. That was so good. So that was like really, really good. And so what I love about all this is like this has been established from day one about DEDRA. Yes. That she does scavenge her, that she loves patterns, that she is better than anyone else in the room at making these connections.

So, of course, she made all these connections because she's too smart to not. But yeah, this idea of like I had to scavenge. Again, I don't like fascists. But I do think it's interesting to think about Dedra as as. someone who has their back against the wall for sure in a number of different ways. Yeah, I agree. And on the blevin front and just in general,

that like pattern spotting and connection drawing in the aptitude. You know, we even hear a chronic curious, like, how can somebody so competent to have, like, done these things? Her competence is always centered, even in the moment of her failure.

And I love that specifically that thing you're identifying, the ability to spot the thing that other people were missing, which was the thrust behind her rise, Is her a sin? Is her down? What's her undoing? They can talk about a human relatable thing with somebody who in many other ways, hopefully we can't relate to. Like, boy, really good.

I thought that Krennick saying, if you're not a rebel spy, you missed your calling, was just absolutely delicious. I love that. It's not only kind of fun to think about the alternate history where Dejra made different choices in different things and had wound up in the beginning in a different place. But also, like, this is just not in any way what Dedra believes she had been promised, right? And what she was promised. We heard it. We saw it. It's not just like that we saw her say to Cyril. We'll go home as heroes. Right. We heard Partigas say to her, everyone who matters knows what you did. Everyone, right? Let the image of professional ascendant settle your nerves. And then when she turns to

Artigaz in a moment of need. Here it's like, who do you think sent me? There's no one she can turn to and no one she can rely on at the end. I also just like really love this blame chain of like, you know. Lame chain's great. I just think that like watching him be like, just frame it all on Dejra here. Yeah. Because I don't believe that he believes all the things that he's accusing her of, but he needs to try to like keep his hands clean as much. And then also. put it on Partigaz as well. Like whoever he can scoop the blame onto, he will. And then we'll talk about Krenick, obviously, more when we get to our Rogue One rewatch. But it's really interesting to him as sort of top of the chain here and then consider where he is in the larger picture.

Yes, I'm excited. Yeah, it's like he's got arguments with Tarkin to have. I also, maybe I'll hit some of this in the Rogue One pod. Maybe not. We'll see. But Krenick's always fucking getting into it with people. Like, he and Thron, that's one of the most. enjoyable parts of subplots of the throne treason, the book in the Don trilogy.

It's just like none of these people can get along. And that's something we've been talking since the beginning of our Andor coverage as well. Like the infighting is a parallel across the sides, but it leads them to different places. And that's a very, credit is a great character for continuing to explore that. I also love for Dedra that she still thinks Luton is alive as Cassie and Will in his part of this plot and then she has to like watch them talk about it

through that glass that Luther's dead and nobody tells her because she's not in the circle anymore talking about stepping in and outside of circles all season like she's out on the outs and this has been her five year mission and the fact that he's dead is not something

worth telling her what a fucking insult Yeah. We'll do our best to carry on without you. That's what Krenick says is he forces her down into the chair. Rensches her into the chairs. It's hideous, horrifying, because she's like, the assistant, the gallery, she wasn't there, find her. We don't need you at all.

You're not important this anymore. Here it does. Here it does. You hope I'm knocking, yeah. Great stuff. Clay has signals for help. She goes back to the safe house. She's chipping away at the wall.

It's like she's in Shawshank. It's just like incredible. Where is her poster to come? cover it. That's so funny. When Melchie later, when they were like, is there another way out? And she's like, I mean, actually, yes, but we don't have time for it. I love thinking about what it is. Like, where is the secret tunnel that they have dug? We're all through miles of piss and shit. Exactly. They've got one. The fact that we like see her shadow on the ceiling before we see her.

Again, there's just like a lot of artistry in these episodes. Really good. And again, her pants and boots are quite hot. To talk about. It does fair repeating. I think you're correct to draw attention to. do it again. It is very meaningful. I really liked how her like series long role is Com's Overlord, you know, radio chief, was so consequential at the end, not only what she knew to do and how, but in the training and the shared language between these people, like later when there's no time to decode it actually. And it's like, oh, Cassium, you already know what the message is. Yeah. Oh, great little touch. Love to that. I also love, there's like a lot of sound and visual bleeding inside of this episode or this arc. We hear the beeping of her of the signal of the radio that she's constructed over the,

when here it says alone, there's no team, it's only her. We can hear the beeping of her signal. And it's true, like Clea alone, but she's reaching out. And then we get the red light blinking. into Yavin. And so it's just sort of like, again, that messenger idea that you brought up last week, I always like, where's the signal

reaching? Who's waiting to receive it? It's Drina. It's Drenna. We got a great email about this. Yeah, yeah. Alex wrote, what a beautiful thing that a survivor of the Gorman massacre, Drina, having sent out her desperate plea for the galaxy, is

there to just barely fingertip grab the Clea Hale-Mary. And then it goes to Wilman of the right to prepare lineage from pharynx who brings it to our favorite intergalactic forest gob Cassie Nander. It would be you, wouldn't it? I love that. That Drina, yeah, just has like the barest little, you know, grasp on this baton as we pass it. The thing I was thinking also about relay races. I just want to use this phrase, which I think is a sporting phrase, which is breast the tape, right? Like, that's what happens when you finish a race.

Breast the tape, am I right? And so the idea of relay race is if you're one of the people who passes along, you don't get to breast the tape. And so, like, who breasts the tape in this story? It's fucking like Luke and Han, not you Chubacca at the middle ceremony, but who are all the other people who were in that race before we got there? Dejera would insist on breasting the tape, right? She really would insist. Yeah. Also, before we get to Drina, so when we first see Will, before we get to Drinow,

we first see Will, he's like limping through the forest of Yavin. And we will see him later when Cassian arrives back. Like, we will see that limp in even more pronounced way, like, as everyone's rushing. And everyone's, like, rushing past him. And he just simply can't move faster than everyone else to get to Cassian. And I was thinking about, like, when Cassian gets a message about Clea and he's like, Will's like, I'm coming. he's like, no, you're not, you know, I'm right.

To me, you know, and he's like, I'll take Melschian said. Like, to me, that's like, you're injured, you're too slow. You can't do this. You know I'm right. Go down and get us on the test roster, like, et cetera, et cetera. Something you can do, but it's not this and you know I'm right. And I like all of this because Will doesn't have to die. He's still alive.

He's still like got a sexy Doreda girlfriend, et cetera, et cetera. But it makes sense then that Will is not. with Cassie when he goes to get gin, it's Mel Sheave, that he's not involved in Scariff because he's injured. So I really like that, you know, because the question is like, well, if there's a Will or if there's a Bix or if there's a Vell or if there's this, like, why are they in Rogue One? And like, the only question mark I have at this point, I think is Vell, who I think might have been more actively involved, but I'm not, I'm not mad about it. And if Tony Gilroy wants to give us that Cleovel spinoff that explains where they were during Rogue One,

Dude, watch it happily. Who says no? I'll watch it happily. Who says no? The wrapping up in a coat? Yeah. Some warm tea. They're just having some tea.

You're just a lover. A cup of. A cup of tea. Yeah, I'm thrilled that we'll live. Thrilled. It's just absolutely thrilled. And yeah, I like too that not only is Cass like, don't do a thing that isn't wise, but like look at all these other ways you can help.

There's stuff you can do. Yeah. Yeah. But it's not this. Yeah. On that front, I mean, not everyone can do anything, everything. When it comes to who's going to carry Clay out of the building, it's Melshi, not our short king, Cassie Nandor. So I'm just saying.

Melchie fueled by Revnog, even when they're like really breaking down what's happening with the radio, he's like, top me off. Yeah. A little more? A little mission fuel. Dude, before. So Will immediately, when he, you know, he says, Sedrina, like, I'll, I'll, I'll. I'll explain, I'll be back. I gotta go.

It goes to Cass, of course. I love the way he just says, Cass when he comes in. But before he arrives, oh, God. We basically get an Avenger Shwarma scene, you know? It's amazing. Like, just a little slice of life watching Game Night with Cass and Melchie and the legend, the god, the icon, the king, K2S.

Who is as good as we all knew he would be now that he has rejoined the story. in full. Here's a fun fact from Tony Gilroy himself. Yeah, this is fascinating. That Melchie and Cassian and Kay all live there. He's like Cassie's home is like a frat house. They all live there. Seems great. I mean, at least the plants are still thriving. It's not like a complete, dude. The Marva plants. The Marva plants. But the fact that like Bix left and Cassian's like, okay, my bros will move in, I guess. And then when Kay says they've played over 800 games. Now, I don't know if you're counting, but it's just been a year, aka last week.

So there's 365 days, I believe, in a calendar of BDY year. And they played 800 games of Rianza. So, that's, they are, you know what? Work-life balance. That's what I'm going with. No, well, it also reminded me of when I was watching. Watching those French resistance documentaries, they would tell, you know, they'd all be sort of like, you know, bunked up in these, like, farmhouses in the country. And they would talk about these, like, knights they would have of, like, drinking and revelry to a certain degree.

And they would, like, they would, like, often be sort of in a farmhouse where there would be, like, a husband and wife who are hiding them. And, like, the wives would be like, yeah, every single soldier was hitting on. Like, every single, like, rebel member was hitting on me. And I was just like, oh, well, yeah, I'm just, you know. country lady but i was just like yeah you have you and like what i look about i mean we see cassian smiled like genuinely smile in this laugh in a way that like i don't think we've seen all season and um this is what i mean we can find out that there are other reasons perhaps while bix left but like this is what she was saying she's like you have to be here you have to be in it right you have to

be connected to this community you have to be in yavin and this is where he is he is like um however he feels about Bix and we'll talk about that when he talks to Vell about it. It's just like he has done what she said which is like, okay, he and some of the council members may still be at odds,

but like, you know, he's found his people, his Melchie, his, his, his K-X unit. So, he can definitely say a conviction to Clea,

like, I made the choice and I made the right one. Yeah. You helped me make it. Also, all this other stuff with Bix happened that we don't have time to get into right now, Clea,

but like, you were a, part of convincing me to do this, and I did it, and it was right. Yeah, seeing cast laugh was really great. What a little gift, just to have a moment of joy and, like, time with your bros before. Yeah, bro down. Over some redneck. Before the end, I really loved that. It's great. It's a great scene. Really good. It was really good. And then, of course, as they're trying to figure out the radio, it's like, oh, well, could it have been just like a flare-up on? Will's like, I keep it charged. We don't doubt Will for a second. We heard Clouty tout his prowess as an engineer. God damn it.

The kitty-plutty. Great. Something made me think of that the other night just randomly. I was laughing. The pulse code comes through again, and we are off. I loved when Cassie was like, and if it's a trap, that makes no fucking difference. Like, I'm not going to stay put when they need me.

Do you know what broke my heart that the subreditors pointed out? What? He tells Melschie to hang on. And they were like, Nemick. Very upsetting. Incredibly upsetting. Oh, my God. Jesus, that's sad.

Melchie hangs on because he's going to live for at least, I don't know, four more days. A few more. He's got a few more in him. He's got a few more in him. Casson, K2, and Melshi disobey 17. Oh, make it 18. on the way to taken off.

And this goes over about as well as you would expect back down on the base. Draven is enraged. Chris texted me, he's like, is this guy's one job to keep prevent ships

from taking off? He's got a lot of very important alliance intelligence work to do. God damn it. Great jacket. It is. And also don't let those ships

take off. Also that. I mean, you know, he was last week slash year. Like, this is not a base for privateers. You know, he's on the record. It's established.

Those who enjoy the securities if you have and must. We claim their loyalties. I like this little moment between Draven and Will. Luther Rail whistles and you two come running. He says they're jeopardizing the vulnerable thing. Obviously, they are seeking order and predictability and stability. But I thought there was also just naked jealousy here. You know, like he's your real dad.

And you guys are the, it's what we've been talking about. of Last of Us, right? It's the us inside of the larger us. It's not just always us in them. It's the Us is inside of the us. And like, the Rayall riders are in us. And that is true. And they always fucking will be and no one can take that away from them. And I thought the way that we got to really celebrate that in this episode or these episodes was awesome. And I loved, we're going to see a lot of like staunch defenses of Luthin from Clea and Cassian. But just will in this like one-on-one conversation where it would be easy to shrink, just saying you can. run him down all you want, but the truth is none of this would be here without Luthan, none of this. Hearing will, the rail riders, as you've called them, love that. Hearing them speak up for Luthin and sing his praises, takes us back to that part of Luton speech that you talked about, not only like burn my decency for sunrise I'll never see, but also like, no applause, no gratitude, no, like, none of that.

but it's like, actually you do get it. Yeah. From the people who knew you and the people who matter. You get it. You get the accolades you thought you'd never get. So here you were. I love knowing that. But, like, Star Wars fans for all this time didn't know.

But the people who knew Luton, the people who really knew him, and we'll be able to say I knew the good and the bad. That's how well I knew him. I knew it all. I saw it all. Still choose to speak for him. Even Vell. It was like, I'll toast him once.

Mon, too. You know, Mon's like, you know. I killed Takoma, but he did do this little shit. I'm not going to lie to you. He didn't have to pick a convertible. But he did. Oh, my God. Orson and Leo.

Fucking loved this scene. Yeah. This was so good. How to find Clea. Can you get it? Sorry, really quickly. We get this shot, again, I don't know, I think it's worth noting. You don't need this shot of here walking up to the building.

We get the shot of him walking up to the building. being sort of reflected down the water as he walks. And it's just like all these moments where it's like, that establishing shot gives us honestly nothing, but a sense of the world and atmosphere outside of these rooms. Yeah. And the scale. Which is like when Krenick, I mean, imagine being in this room with not only part of guys your boss, but fucking Orson Krennick.

And you're like, I'm going to have to be the one who makes him believe that I can solve this. And we get like, you know, he's like, basically Krenick's like, who are you? Right. He gets a little bit of who are you. He's like, what's your name? It's such an intimidating place for here to have to be. And it was interesting to watch the dance between the three of them, given what we will then see transpire just between Partigas and Krenic.

And I loved the language that Krenick used, you know, when he said that they would get that image. Blastic, get it everywhere as wide and deep and far as it takes. And I was like, how did Krenick get a hold of the Cyril Dedra fanfic we've been working on, Joe? how? Wow. It's just waiting for him to say and then turn out the lights. I know turn out the lights should be the name of the fan pick, but should it be as wide and deep as far as it takes? Bad, baby. Oh my God.

This is where they're like, well, all right, what's the charge? Sedition is it murder and Pardney says she's diseased and escape the hospital, infectious, the threat to all. Okay. Got to think of Marva again here, right? We have to. The speech, the hollow at the funeral. We let it grow and now it's here. It's here and it's not visiting anymore. It wants to stay. The empire is a disease that thrives in darkness. It is never more alive than when we sleep. Partigas using the language. Can I counter your quote with another quote? Please. Season one, Partigaz. Really? We are health care providers. We treat sickness. We identify symptoms. The longer we weight to identify a disorder, the harder it is

to treat the disease. That's him describing what the ISB does. I love this. So good. To your point, like having the same language come from a Marva and Apardigas is wild. Also, it sort of goes back to what I was saying

about that idea of like, yeah, no, Clay is not actually diseased, but this idea of this information is poison, and as soon as Lonnie touches it, and as nothing could be more than touches it. And, you know, it's just sort of like that person. person dies and that person dies and that person dies. And it's true to a certain degree. I was thinking of death and funerals in the next part of this scene, as you often are.

As I often am, because I was really, the way that Partagaz was sort of like chuckling and laughing to himself, that kind of nervous laughter that you have at a funeral, you can have as like, I'm observing the irony of the situation, I'm uncomfortable. I don't know how to process this and what has happened to us and the thing that we've tried to, uh, wrap our fingers around that imperial chokehold. I just loved this. Death Star. What a prescient turn of phrase.

Fantastic stuff for Party Guys, as always. That guy knows something about a turn of phrase. And Krenick replying to this by just saying immediately, I can't protect you, Leo. We had been texting with Chris about this. He told us it was like his favorite line. And then he brought it up to Gilroy on the watch. And like, it was really cool to hear them talk about this.

And I loved the way that Chris framed it. I really agree. Like, there is an entire history between these two people that is captured in that one utterance. And, like, we don't know the particulars of their history together, but we can kind of understand all of the true things about it. Is this how we keep Tony Gilroy working at the Star Wars Alt Mines forever? We just, like, threaten him with, like, if you don't write it, someone else will write the Orson Leo backstory. God. You know, have you seen the memes?

Sorry. Sorry to be like the having seen the memes person. Meme Lord today. You usually are more on top of the memes than I am, but have you seen the memes of, you know, the like sort of like the Lisa Nalgaib from Doom Part 2,

it's like he says he's not the Madi and that makes him the Madi more than ever, but like applied to Tony Gilroy. It's like, Tony Gilroy is like, I don't want us to do Star Wars. That's what makes you perfect to do Star Wars. Oh, man. Reluctant destiny, Tony.

You keep talking about it in your interview. I don't want it. Here's the deal. Krenick says, we're moments away, days, and Partingas like tosses his head

incredulously, like snorts, like likely story. Again, says, like, save the sermon. He knows Krenick is in trouble too. Yeah.

And Part of his will be dead before the day is out, essentially. Krenick will be dead in a matter of days. They're dead. These are dead men.

Best of luck to both of us. Heert also dead. Man, I love the little nod after the best of luck to both of us. I like that just this, again, if these are people with a history together, it doesn't mean there's like just such fondness and love and adoration and affection, but there is history. And it's like, and this is what they say to each other in the moment of the reckoning, I can't save you and you should have been ready. Man.

Bad luck part of it. You sound like Tarkin. Bad luck part of guess. I have a Pavlac, or a Pavlik part, I guess. You sound like Tarkin, though, is like a sick burn, honestly. That's a mean thing to say to someone who's like Tarkin. I don't know. Tarkin has incredible elocution and really good cheekbones. Yeah.

But, you know, the guy saying that thinks that he sucks. Do you think Kirt is related to Tarkin? Do you think he's like his nephew or something like that? The facial structure is just remarkably similar. The cheekbones. And it's time. Mission. Clay possible. Let's get Clay up. Okay. Here. It's like I pushed out the order. I got to go visit my old boss, Dejra. This is when she's just like wearing her imperial uniform, but without any of the stuff on it.

What did you think it looked more like a prison jumper or like a straight jacket? Oh, that's funny. Okay, first of all, hair slightly askew. Also, when she hears someone coming, she stands up and she straightens it. And then she sees it here and she's like, like, fuck it. I'm getting back in my chase. Just like, never mind. I'm stretching. I won't stand for you. I know you're the important striver. Right.

Those little touches do just like, I mean, that's just so good. It's really good. Oh, it's fucking here. Okay. She knows, though, right away what it means Luton's dead. Right. And it's all on you now, Young's best friend. We were never friends.

I know the feeling. We talked about this already and what this meant to us. So we got a really great email about this. Rachel wrote in to say, The rebellion thrives when individuals and the cause they serve coexist. The alliance needs Cassian to struggle with how much to give, needs him to resist hierarchy and control. Without his independence, Cassian never would have gone to scariff against the alliance orders.

Accommodating people, flawed, messy people ultimately serve the rebellion, while Cyril's entrepreneurial spirit could only be a liability for the empire. I think showing us this false tension between personal identity and community says something profoundly optimistic about pluralistic democracy. The cause is better for accommodating Cassian's capriciousness. People with their doubts and failures in tow can never subsume themselves entirely. The work then is building a world that welcomes in privileged shendrillins, pharynxian rogues, rhino-hoeffers, and true believers alike. keeping us close enough to each other that one can pick up the slack, another chooses to let go. So that idea of like individuals and mini rebellions inside of a larger rebellion, this idea of like alliance, uneasy as it might be friction.

Like, you know, we see mon and saw budding heads, like as much friction and conflicts as there might be. This idea of like, but there's a common enemy that we have to keep in line and we need those mini rebellions inside of the larger rebellions. Meanwhile, meanwhile over the ISB, one to out of line and your... No friends. No friends. No one listening. They both have a North Star, but one of them is pure and one of them is brittle. Ah, great stuff. What a wonderful email that was. For Rixie and Rokes? Proviction of Drillians. Rydow Huffers? Rydowulfers. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. I would have like saw in the hollow to be just like, you know, take one hit.

we've got Rogue One coming. Here it's like, why is this Krenic project? And Dejah says, is this a test? Incredible. But no, he's here for advice, which of course, like, is very tasty in a couple different ways.

She was the one was like, you're not going to come to me? You're not going to ask for my advice. You don't want this. And now here he is, right? Needing it. Needing her help. But also there's like a tactic at play from him

because he is appealing to her ego by saying, oh, I did need you after all, actually. Like, you can see something here that I can't. And she does have something to share, right? She points him to check the old access files. There were radios. We found one on Ferrix. We found one with Krieger.

Old frequencies pulse codes. And that takes us to the gallery where Lepori, our new favorite character, I was like, where have I seen this person recently? and then went to the IMDB and realized that she's on industry. I just saw her. I was just talking to you about this episode of Doctor Who from this season. She's like the lead guest star of that episode, Dr. Who, she's incredibly good. The actress's name is Keelan Dunn.

It is a very hard to spell Irish name. And I looked at the pronunciation. I believe I am close, but I tried. She's incredible. I love her in this moment. She's so good. I thought the moment where she's kind of, she's like very impressive. She's like, she's like, this is brilliant.

My client is. Oh, my God, this place is the tower. They're using the strength of the imperial broadcasts and that. Like, the smile and then looking and enjoy Dolly is like, no. I wouldn't. I would simply wouldn't. I would not. I would not bring them in front of here.

There's space inside of and or for the hospital security guy. And this like woman nerding out over, you know, the, the comms is just why this show is so special. Totally agree. more blinking lights, more red lights, more signals being sent and received. And it's time for everybody to converge on the safe house, the not so safe house pretty soon. Cass Melchie, K2 arrive above Korsetanmel. She's like, I've never been here and K2's like I was in a parade with the emperor once. By the way, parades for the emperor.

Parades for Hitler. Not good, K. And I don't know if you know this. But Donald Trump has decided to have a massive taxpayer-funded military parade on his birthday this year. Just putting that out there in the universe. It's all true. Christ almighty. Are you watching?

Are you current on the rehearsal? No. I was thinking of the rehearsal. One of the most remarkable things that's ever happened on television is currently happening in season two of the rehearsal. I won't get into particulars. It involves pilots and the relationship between pilots and co-pilots. This is a season-long pursuit. And so when Cass was like, I'm taking over.

It's like, oh, my God, we're in a rehearsal episode all of a sudden, but we weren't. Cassian tells him to keep the engines running, and Kay's like, great little setup for Rogue One. Of course, he will not stay on the ship as he is supposed to. Stand the car. Kay. It's like, no, not for me. And honestly, thank God. Thank God. Well, this moment before Cassie and Melchie go into the building, and Melchie's like,

are you okay? because, of course, he's thinking about, like, being there with Bix. This is a home, as dilapidated as it may be, this is a home he made with Bix. Yeah. When they get up to the 27th and Melchie's like, is this it? Is this right? And the way that Cassie was like, it's been a while. Yeah.

Look how it has changed this place. Oh, my God. Yeah, that was sad. It's been two weeks, AK two years. It's been half a month for the people at home. Here tells Partigaz that they have a location. Tacticals en route. He's going to leave the operation personally,

I can go wrong. This guy seems seasoned and trustworthy in the field. When he gets his little Kevler, essentially Kevlar vest, which will do him no good. If only were Kevlar, I mean, this shit is like fucking Tupperware. It reminded me a lot of Cyril Carn on Farix. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's not, you can't quite match the, like, I'm in a dumb little hat and I'm attempting to make a speech and Mosque is making very amusing faces behind. Oh, sir! But it's still. But still pretty good. And we get another iconic space cockney And this moustachian guy who's leading the charge here.

Great, great stuff. First and final warning. You really, this is your first and last. That was great stuff. ISB. Hotstone, they shut down the comms, right?

All frequencies other than their own. And Kay is like, uh, oh, time to spring into action, and he does. Cassian knocks on the door. It's the secret knock.

It's the code knock. But Clay is, of course, on guard. And it's only one Cassian. Cassian speaks aloud and calls Lutheran's name that she opens the door and says, as you mentioned earlier, it would be you, wouldn't it? And this was just like perfect, right? This idea of Cassian is this central figure not only in this story, but this slice of galactic history and like what we heard from the force healer last arc, gathering as they go, there's a purpose to it. He's a messenger. There's some place he needs to be. And then from Lutheran that like the place he needs to be is always a new place. And he's always there. You appeared when I, I needed you is what Luthan said. And so of course he appears here. And of course, he's there for Clea.

And of course, later, when he's describing it to the, very frustrating, non-quarum counsel, he's like, an old friend needed me. Like, an old friend needed my help. Absolutely loved it. Glea tells him what happened. This is obviously very important. Well, Cassian hears here. This is very important.

This is like a direct bridge to Rogue One. Galen Erso say it. Galen. Gailinerson? I loved it. This was great. And this is where he starts to just say, like, you can't stay here. This is when I was certain that she was going to die. I was like, oh, she passed the misdalen. R-A-P.

It's a miracle. I can't believe she made it out of this. I cannot believe it. It's amazing. I know. That's like what a fun trick that Android played where it's like, so many shows were like, oh, my God, they tried to shock us with the death. This shocked me with how many people lived. Well, Liz, Mel lives.

Sick. Bix lives. Okay, great. Say the most important one. B. Oh. Dedra? Yeah, I guess in a fashion.

Not you, Lonnie. Okay. B too, yeah, not Lonnie, but we will honor him on his bench one day. God damn it. Yeah. Clay is not into it. She says, I know what they think of Luthin. She wants Cassian to be the messenger.

You tell them what I've just told you. And I love the way that Cassian not only refused to leave her behind, but was like you need to tell them. And then as we're going to build to at the top of the next episode, one of the contenders for, you know, best line of the thing, you need to see the place you helped build, which was, I thought, just really, truly, truly incredible. I also love at the top of the next episode,

good old Melshi, back on his, somebody needs to tell them, beat. People need to know. Melchie's like, I am one thing that I know. Two things. Ravnog, delicious. somebody needs to tell them. No, Kina, this. Good old Melchie.

Seems like a great hang. So this is a day, this is a night. A night that began with a Rev. Noghue Fuel game. Into the rescue of Clea, into bringing her back to Yavin, her in the infirmary, her wandering in the rain,

Vell giving her tea, she sleeps in Vell's tent and wakes up to the dawn that is the end of the episode. Is there not daylight behind them on Corrassant when they're leaving? Is it not day? Like, twilight? So you think it was nighttime when they were playing the Ranza game, and then they get to, yeah, I guess it's like, yeah, Twilight.

Okay, so that's day two. So it's a cheat. It's 3.2 days, 3.1 days is what this arc is. Oh, man. We get our cliffhanger and then we go into the final episode. I couldn't believe. I know.

It was wild. It really was wild. We picked back up right with this conversation about Yavin after all of this, what a bitter ending. Nothing's ending. You're keeping Luthin alive, big words. Ugh. So good.

There are multiple, there's like a shot of Clea inside of this safe house, earlier when she's all alone. Yeah. So there's like a shot from Partigaz, after Krennick walks out, Partig's slumped over his chair, sort of like leaning down on the desk, cut to Claya in the same position and the safe house, shot through this sort of narrow gap in the wall, so it looks like everything is closing in around on her.

And we get a similar shot of Melchie and Cassie and Claire, again, through sort of like a section of wall. So again, it just looks like everything's closing. in around them. So good. Oh, man. I love that. I thought that you need to see the place you helped build was like one of a, you know, a few examples, but like one of the moments where it felt like the show was stating its mission directly, right?

Like, all of the people who helped do this thing in a way that we did not previously understand, like, that is what this story is exploring, all of the small hands who do it because they must. Yeah. And whether they get to see the sunrise or they get to feel the gratitude, they were a part of making it. And like, I loved hearing Cassian especially be the one to pitch that. I just thought that was like really powerful and really cool. Cassian, Cassing offering up hope to someone else and being the one to draw someone else. Again, like watching him do this as he will think about as he will do this for Jin.

you know what I mean? Like that he is in, again, as we've been tracking this like leadership role. Yeah. We haven't really seen Cassian on this like much of like a hard recruit path. You know, we saw him talking to the bellhop on Gorman and like sort of the seeds that he planted there. But like this, this gambit of like come to Yavin. Like we're doing something there. And you get to, you know, see that sunrise.

Like Luton didn't, but you get to. come with us. Right. It's really good. No one can do this alone. I had to learn that. And now I can give that to you as a gift because rebellions are built on hope. Not sure if you've heard.

Not sure if it's come up. Once or twice. Great stuff. It's fight time. Fun little action sequence here. You can talk in, sir. We have this. It was great.

I really loved the cut from the ISB command center where they're like, what happened to the feed to the soldier's head? smashed into the... Seeping blood into the controls. Yeah. Clea defeated, has conceded the point on the Yavin front. She's like, fine, I'll go with you. Get your fucking rebel base. She's got her little satchel. And this is when Melchrie opens the door, sees them all, and it's like, ducks back in, Cassian says, don't close it.

Chaos ensues. They toss this stun grenade. This was another moment where I was like, Clayah is toast. Dead. Like, holy shit. I mean, Cassian probably should have gone through concussion protocol before going into the events of Rogue One. He seemed like he took a pretty hard bump to the noggin as well. Melchie was kind of fine.

She seemed completely fine. Totally good. It's the rev knock. Yeah, he probably like flocks pretty loosely. I have to say, love respect to Cassian and Clay had two characters who I really admire. They just stared at that stun grenade for a while. I know. Kick it into the hallway.

Duck and cover, like something. You know, brace yourself. No. Everyone's really stressed, you know. It's a tough high intensity day. But yeah, I was like, is anyone going to try to kick it? No. No one's going to do a Steve Rogers either.

Like, no one's going to dive on top of it, try to spare the others. Oh, I know what you meant. But like, who would do that? No one. Just Steve. Yeah, just Steve. That's why Steve. That's why his cap.

But K2 is here. So we're good. We're good. This is just an absolute. annihilation path through these, as you noted earlier, so now I feel bad for laughing human beings. You seem very stressed about having to do this, at least some of them. But they're also to work for the empire, so fuck them.

Indeed. Indeed. Cassian have cleared a path, and he has. And so it is time to make the push on Yavin. Yeah, as they leave, again, with Melshi, giving the officer and gentleman carry to Cleia. Cassian gives like one last sad look Yeah

To the safe house I was waiting to see if they were going to blow it Like they did Gorse's office but Excellent And this is the A Cassian hero walk to the camera that we get Yeah Excellent use of this set

This season right We used it for Bixen and Cass We used it for Mon and we used it for Clay I thought that was just like brilliant I agree I love that as well And now I want to know what those couple nights where that Luthan spent there previously, you know, that he alluded to. And also, whose job

was it to hide radios and concrete and, for sure, Clea? No question. She's like, I know I, bricked in a radio here somewhere. Oh, man. Brazo did not get a stone, but Clea got plenty of concrete mixing training in. Okay. It wasn't your finest hour, but I still support you. No stone for Brasso. I just wanted to say it one more time. No stone for proso, but concrete makes sure it come in way. Oh, God. All right.

Melchie, tending to Clea. With very gentle hands, I should note. And I would say, were he not to die in a couple days? And were I not fully on board of the Bell and Clay a train? I would ship it. But, yeah, no, he's not around for long. Very gentle hands. Yeah.

Yeah. That was nice. That was nice. That guy has handled a full shot class in time or two. Oh, Mel She. Great stuff with Mel She truly. We head back. We're flying into Yavin. Before Cass returns, we get to witness a really fun scene where our guy saw Garera calling in with some real zingers via hollow. But before we talk about what Saw says, we must once again go to a wigwatch TM with Joanna Robinson, TM to talk about Mar-Math. In order to get to this particular weekwatch segment, we have to walk through what Pat and Oswald once called in a stand-up routine, a sparks factory.

They're just like constantly welding in the oven. They're just like, we got sparks flying everywhere always. Okay, anyway, we walk through the sparks factory to get to Mon. And here it is, the sad yavin hair. Say what you texted to me and Chris. You called this. The saddest death. I didn't remember saying that.

I mean, Jeddick Vorelli is still like absolutely beautiful. Stunning. The prior mon hair was like electric. Oh, yeah. So this is a sad comment. However, I will say, shout out to the costume department. Yeah.

We're really trying to thread the needle on this, like, you know, bed sheet look that Mon has used elsewhere. Here's a quote from the costume designer. When she takes off her counsel robes, they're like, get the bed sheets off of her. She has an extremely simple and more relaxed look underneath. She has a long top trousers and boots that, to me, are the signal of her future. She's sitting down with people at the breakfast table and not putting herself on a pedestal. She's really rolling up her sleeves and working out how to move forward. with the Rebel Alliance.

I did like that. I liked it. It was like Mons and her athleisure for breakfast with Val. Wait until she learns about leather pants from Glea. She's not some intergalactic superstar senator. She used to be with the people, collaborate and wear clothes for a jungle setting. So I was worried that we would just be swathed in, like, sheets.

But I did. I liked it when we saw her, like, Eileen Fisher separants that she was wearing. That was great. It was great. As was this exchange that Mon is largely leading. I mean, Bail is there, Draven is there. They're chatting with Saw. As we've discussed on other Andoropods previously, you know,

not the first time that Mon and Saw have gotten into it over the years, not the first time that Saw in anyone else in the Rebel Alliance have gotten into it. Just going to hit some highlights. Why should I believe anything you say? What you know? What you hear? Poking at my window? How many more meddling squealers have you said my way?

Great moment after when Bail's like he's crazy And Draven's like, no, actually he's right. We are infiltrated and we are spying on him. That's how we know the things we know. When he says meddling squealers, timeline-wise, he's not talking about Bodie yet, right? Or is he? I don't think so.

Bodie should be coming shortly, though. But like how long is Bodie in there, before they arrive? Could be there. So in my heart, because I love resentment, Is there? Bode is the titular meddling squealer. Let's rewatch and see if we can spot a Borgulet tentacle in the background of the hollow at any point. It's entirely possible.

Disception. Wonderful stuff. If only you could fight as well as you lie, might be the winner. That was fucking unbelievable. Very good. Obviously, this is saw to, I mean, days right on the brink of the, like, peak paranoia state that we find him in in Rogue One. And he has completed his journey from cutting himself off completely from the people who should be his allies. And it is actually really quite sad.

This is tubes are ratio. Tubes are right here. Tubes is still there. Taves is still there. That's true. That's true. We all have friends everywhere, I guess, as long as we have a tubes. That's nice.

Nobody here knows yet that Luther is dead, so this could not have actually happened. But I did feel sort of sad that we didn't get to see, saw, learn that Luton had died, just given the nature of their relationship. That would have been fascinating. Yeah. Rattis is like, Draven, come here. We got to talk. The U-Wing's coming back. And if Merrick had been here, he'd shoot it down, so we're lucky he's away. And we would just like to state for the record on this podcast that Radis can fuck off and that not today.

Nor ever will we agree that we are lucky that Merrick is away because we are never lucky. We are never lucky that Blue Leader Ben Daniels is not with us. This is outrageous. Rogue one is where I met Ben Daniels. And I believe I've told you that I used to call him Captain Handsome Mustache. And, you know, of course, we talked about him a lot. We talked about Rings of Power this last season. I don't know if he's not in this show because he was filming interview with Vampire Season 2 in which he is incredible.

Or if with love and respect, not all of us can pretend to look the way we did that many years ago. You know what I mean? He still looks great, though. He looks amazing, but I'm not sure he looks, you know, the way he did in Rogue One. I also thought they kept like some other people in somewhat soft focus on the council meeting. We're doing our best. Oh, man. They land.

She's injured, needs care. Let's get her to the infirmary. And then Draven's like, all right, you got, you have some stuff to fill us in on. Takes Cassian to meet with the council. There's no quorum, but here's who we have. Draven, bail, mom, radis, Jebel, Pamlo, still the worst, both of them as always. Just awful. Awful.

Awful. So unlikeable and terrible. My great people. Oh, man. Cassie and Philson Mann tells him energy project cover for the super weapon. They're like, oh, we know all about the energy project. We've been funding it for years about details or inspection. Amazing stuff.

And it's like, you know, for so many of these former senators to have to confront the way that Palpatine used, like, the official power to then work his shadow operation and an interesting thing. I mean, obviously they're here because they've rebelled against Palpatine. So the continued insights, like even after leaving Corrassine, a fascinating. Yeah. A fascinating thing to think about. And they ask what kind of weapon in Cassian? I don't know yet. You're going to have to say, too.

Go on. Come on. I don't know. I haven't answered Tivix call yet. I don't know. Here's where I have to, okay. He says there's a tie to Gorman, right? And Jedda.

Mm-hmm. Because he's like, Claire repeated some words to me. I can repeat them back to you. And Mon's like, oh, Gorman, I'm invested. Draven's like, oh, Jedda, we're spying there. get some looks, meaningful looks from both of them. You've already mentioned that you like the Pamela Jebel sort of like infighting that we get here and that it makes you think about more about Rogue One.

Were you thinking about the Maya Pay Brigade and the way in which they are important founding members of the spirit of disagreement that exists inside of the Rebel Alliance? Were you like, the Spirit of the Maya Pay Brigade is alive and well at this council meeting? I was thinking of it as we panned over, thinking of them as we panned over Yavin and I thought about the wild creatures in the jungle who had eaten them. Yeah. Okay. You think of them as kibble. I think of them as inspirations.

We are not the same. This is what an alliance is. That's what Andor has taught us. Oh, man. I genuinely really love your affection for the Maya Pay Brigade. It makes me happy. If they had all died together on a bench, I would. would go visit it and lay down some, I don't know, biscuits. What was it they were eating?

Anyway, they would not have died together on a bench. They would have died together scattered across the plaza where they were on opposite sides shooting in each other. Two different benches. Both alike and dignity. Okay. Joe, convenient rappers, paranoid fantasies. These are some of the things that we hear. And, you know, we got to say, bail organa, the important figure in Star Wars history, is not exactly ready to accept this either, right? And bail and Radis are kind of like the ISP was onto Luthin. It's just as likely that they were feeding him false information than Radis even has the fucking gall to imply or worse. I was like, how frankly, how dare you? Oh, my God. And we get just a great moment from Cassian here and a great moment for the Cassian

Luton relationship because Cassian's like, it's the opposite. The reason that I know this is real is because I know Luton. Do any of you? When I say I know Luthan, I mean I know the good and the bad. I know what was wrong with him. I had a front row seat to that. And I made my choice two years ago to join here and be part of this. But none of that can take away from what he did and how hard it was. I don't know if what he was told was true or not, but it's insulting to hear him run down by people who have given a fraction of his sacrifice to this rebellion.

I think Will was just outside the room, like, snapping. It's just like, preach, Cass. I'd like to think so. Yeah, I hope that someone, like, played this for Clayah later in the infirmary when she was healing. Maybe Vell shared it with her later in the comfort of their new home. The light of gratitude. The light of gratitude, dude. Yeah.

I was, like, thinking of, I was thinking of Luton describe it when I'm talking about Cassian at the beginning of the show. Like, special people are hard to find. and how cool it was for inside of these very complicated relationships, some of the people who knew Luthin the best, good and bad, balance in the force, right, to talk about him that way. Like to talk about and remember how special he was, how unique he was, how the things that he did had like a bearing and a consequence and a weight and a heft that could not be replicated.

And I just thought that was like really cool. in some ways much more powerful than like just somebody who had hero worshipped Luthin coming in and saying it, right? Like that's not what this was for them. And I really liked, I really liked that Cassian was such a staunch believer. Like not a defender of Luton's morality, but a believer in what he had achieved and what he was trying to achieve even still. Like I just really, really loved that.

Bales like, when did you last speak, though? Last week. Fucking guys. A year ago, last week, when I rescued Mon Mothma from the Senate. Because your team had a spy, sent by Lonnie, the goat. Dolly noted. Duly noted. Luthin was the character who said to Saw in episode 8 of season one.

Aren't you tired of fighting with people who agree with you? And the fact that Luthin was then in that place at the end is like very tragic. It really is like so deeply tragic. But that's why it's an interesting character. It's so interesting to me. You keep bringing up this SAA conversation because like, yeah. My read on that is a little different in that like I think he, because he wanted something from Saa inside of that he was selling him something

because he was constantly disagreeing with Monde. Like Luton was like the king of my way or the highway. Yeah. Alliance under me. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. No.

Absolutely not. And that's sad. I like the way that Gilroy talked on the watch about originators, the originators of a movement and like his interest in them and what happened to them. And it's interesting to think about like, you know, we talked about this a lot last episode, but, you know, Mon and Bail have been involved from the start. And Luton and saw from the start in all in different ways and where did they all end up and why. It's like such a, the show.

the show's ability to explore that was who gets to stay with the rebellion who is outgrown by the rebellion I get sad thinking about what happens with Mon Moth I know tough everything's tough okay it's time to reflect it's time to remember

okay before they say cast your confined quarters and he's like can I do a quick trip to the infirmary and Draven's like sure I'll babysit you there and then they just forget that Cassians can find a quarters because Cassian just then goes and talks to Will and sort of does whatever he wants. So I'm just saying if you're going to ground a kid, you've got to like enforce it or else

they'll never learn any boundaries. I mean, he's famous the hero in Yavin for following orders. So I don't know, you know, since he's never disobeyed an order before. He goes to see Clea after here, after this exchange was driven where he learns about I like that when he heard, he was there one more day, he won't talk to anyone but you. Cassius, like, that doesn't sound very prompt. So I was like, well, it's not going to be for Timic.

Nope, ultimately. I really loved the way, like, when they were talking about TiVic and Draven asked if he trusted him and Cass said, I try. And that made me think again of the try idea and Nemek and try. When he said I try, I was just like, Nemic exclamation mark in my notes. Like absolutely, that idea of like, yeah, try. Just keep trying.

One foot in front of the other, slow march towards, you know, your inevitable death on a beach somewhere. But listen, you will have done, you will made it worth it. And that's what really matters. Yeah, I love this. I love him visiting Clay and saying not the hero's welcome, he promised. I love holding himself accountable for that. It's going to take time. Yeah.

Yeah. And then talking to Will about Luton also, like, he made it worth it. That idea of like that that's the philosophy. Yes. If we die, make it worth it. And so when thinking about Cassie and Gin at the end, give it all for something real. Yeah. Cassie and Jen at the end of Rogue One, like, it was worth it. Right. What we fought for was worth it. So, yeah. I love that. Mon Asvel helped me believe him. Can I, I love that. And can I just note something really quickly? I forgot to bring this up when we talked about Bell previously, but I love to see her with this red hair, which like I assume is her because it's Mon's hair color too, her natural hair color. But I just love to see that connection between the cousins, like, you know, who are no longer like, I mean, pretending not to know each other in certain ways. And it's just sort of like, yeah. Yeah, and you guys just see like they understand that they're spending a lot of time together, like when Manches. Bobfells like, oh, I thought we were having breakfast together, and then they will. Like, they're in each other's lives. They don't have to go to these long months without knowing if the other one is okay. Or putting on a show as they are together, yeah.

Yeah. He should stop saving people. That's what Vell says of Cassium, when Monfills her in and says he's grounded. We know what Bix would say. It's not up to us. What we save in Cassian is like, what if it could be? But also, then I have to confront that it isn't always. wife, ad.

And Val goes to visit Cassian. And before she brings up, why she's there and what Mon wants to know, Cassian asks her if she'll drink to Luton. Just this once, she says, right? This was magical. This was so beautiful.

They have this toast. Revna. Cassian says they can't test them all. And then she starts with Gorn, with anemic, with Terriman. He says, Sinta. Not you, Evan Moss, that, correct.

Yeah. Because Dean doesn't get a mention. Dean, betrayer, no mention. Okay. The Gorman's, Ferricks, your mother, the Donnies, and then he says, Aldani. Like, that idea of, like, wrapping in, like, the Donnies, the Gormons, the Donnies.

Yes. But, like, also, those are the people, but Ferric's a place. Aldani, a place. what did the empire take from us, these entire places, these entire communities? I mean, they didn't fully take it because Stone and Sky is still alive with us, you know what I mean? But this is so, when he said Sinta, like, thinking about when Vell and Cassie met each other in season one, that like very caustic hike to the camp, another long walk. just we watched them hike for a very long time to get to their camp. And she does not want him there.

And she does not want him there for real-old. And then she was like, Tass to kill him at the end of season one. So like them finding common cause, but also like, you know, we've never heard cast talk about Sinta since. You know what I mean? And it's just sort of like, but he knows. What that meant to her, yeah. And freaking, Vell was there for the Marva speech. You know what I mean?

So it's like, again, similar to the like, I can't protect you Leo line that Chris loves so much. There's a lot of like his, you know, the fact that Valneux Bix, but we haven't seen them together that much. You know, like, what is all the history that we missed? And like, again, I don't feel it in a, I missed it so I don't understand it way. I feel like I understand what these four weeks slash four years has done to change the relationship between these people. Yeah. I've really, I loved, I mean, obviously, Aldania thing they shared directly and, you know, Gorman too in different periods of time there. And like, but yeah, your mother really got me too because like thinking of how they were waiting on Ferrix, watching, spying, just like the empire was, you know? And like to think about then the evolution of their relationship together over time is really incredible. I thought this was such a great, beautiful way for us to be sharing this. this experience with the characters as they shared it with each other and just to like reflect and remember and mourn the people who we like lost and miss and love and yeah the gormans it's like

the donnie you know all the people who they didn't know their entire lives or ever fall in love with but still chose to help and like that's what this is that's what this is about that's what the rebellion is you know i love that gorn and terriman are mentioned here because like we talk about nemick all the time when we talk about al-dawny and we talk about cinta obviously because of what has happened. And, like, I don't know. I'm sure occasionally we talk about Skeen. But, like, we don't talk about Gordon-Tarman,

but they were there and they mattered and they were part of this as well. Absolutely. Yeah. So good. Belle tells them why she's there. She's like, Mom-M-Won-West-W-Bel. Belle always says this. I love this.

She always, she's like, here's why I'm here. She's great. She's great. And this is where Cassian says, Lutthin died for this. Does it matter what he did to us along the way? Does it matter how it twisted him? none of this exists without him.

I think it's great that the show has characters who would say yes and no to that, you know? Like, that's just, it's not a, it's not a simple equation at all. So there's the equation Lutheran Road, then there's the equation the show wrote, and they're both very complicated. I was just like, I don't know, I've been thinking of, obviously, Marva was mentioned in The Toast. I know I've been talking about her a lot, the last two pods, and like she's just, I think, I guess, I mean, the whole way, you know, since we talked about her, her picture being there with them on Mina Rao. And the part of Marva's speech that I was thinking about here was like this parallel in like how you influence after you're gone, you know? I was always eager, always waiting to be inspired. I remember every time it happened, every time the dead lifted me with their truth.

And now I'm dead. And I yearn to lift you. Not because I want to shine or even be remembered. It's because I want you to go on. And that they're finding their version of that with Luther now, too. It's just like amazing. I was thinking about that quote too

in the context of like the relay race right that we talk about but also like if you think about Marva Marva's from beyond the grave hollow message echoing through history Nemex manifesto echoing through history

Keenoloi message like echoing through history it's just and thinking about like Kino and Marva and Luthin and Nemek and these big speeches from season one that were such showstoppers. But they weren't just, like, flashy television.

They are just sort of, like, messages that are woven into the heart of this larger story that we're telling. And we keep going back to them. You know, there's, like, there's other moments in television where you're like, great speech, great monologues of television. You know what I mean? Like, when we covered White Lotus, Bill Simmons was like, is this the greatest monologue talking about White Lotus. And that made us think of TV monologues. But I can't think of another show where, like, the text, the philosophy, the thought behind these various speech moments is something that we return to again and again and again as we process how the characters move on beyond it. I just think it's so special what we've watched today.

I really agree. I love that. That's such a good point. We get to hear one of those. We get to hear it. Did you, like, freak out when we went? Nemek's voice kicked in. Quick pause.

Before we get to Nemick, yes, of course. Alex Lothar. Alex Lothar, who I've said before, sounds to me just like Ben Wischaw, who has my favorite voice of all time, Paddington himself. But like, when Cassie is talking to Vell

and he says, Claya wouldn't lie about it, and Vell looks up when she hears Clayah's name, and then we get to Claya. and as we hear this manifesto, when we get to Alone, Unsure, that's when we see Clea pulling in her tubes and walking into the rain. It's just like very good. I mean, Part of Gaz, part of guys listening to it being revealed as like dietic sound

inside of Partagaz's office is like an old-timer. But like hearing it over Clea as she sort of similar to Cassian, at the end of season one sort of walks into this new phase of rebellion is very powerful. I loved it and I loved bleeding from Yavin into ISBHQ and what those words mean

in each of those contexts, right? Like this is the root and the heart of the cause and then this is the reminder and the proof of why you failed and why the thing that you were trying to do was never going to last. So good. when LaGrette walked in and Partigas

stopped playing the recording and said I'm assuming you've heard it before bits and pieces just keeps spreading doesn't it? It's hard to contain I was just like the section that says Morton Nimick says tyranny requires constant effort

it breaks it leaks and Partagas just looks so weary as he hears that part I mean he's about to you know, Departaguez, like, you know, leave,

leave this earth. But like, in, I don't know. I want Nemix manifested to play over every scene of television. Like, I just think it's so strong and so powerful.

Oh, my God. There will be times when the struggle seems impossible. Ah, it's just so fucking good. And this is like the empire confronting. I have never,

I have never regretted that we can't play clips on a podcast more than I regret. We can't listen to Nemex. manifesto right now. Well, it's a long one. This is a meaty one, meaty soundbite. It's just so good. It occurs spontaneously and without instruction.

And this is the moment, right? The thing that he is describing, like one single thing will break the siege. Part of guys staring that in the face confronting at the ISB, the empire over the coming days. Like Luton said, you know, to Dedra, the rebellion has flown away. It's everywhere. They can't stop it. They can't contain it.

have lost. Like, the shot has not been fired into the Death Star yet, but they have lost. And I just thought this was, it was remarkable to see that reckoning on Parting Az's face here. I also love this, like, Legrette being here again, like Lonnie's dead, here it's a puppet and dead. Dedra's in prison. Levin got disappeared between seasons. We don't know. And so it's like, it's just Legrette left. Yeah. And, yeah, this moment where, you know, part of guys is like, I just need a minute, right? And Legrette knows exactly what he's going to do.

Yeah. And lets him do it. Yes. And that moment when you hear the shot and Lagrette just sort of like wordlessly signals. Of his hands to the truth first to stop them. We know what this is. Holy shit. This is a suicide and we let him have that way out.

You know, it's, again. I don't like fascists. And I don't like, I would not want to have dinner with Partigaz. But this is an all-time character, an all-time performance from Anton Lesser. Really is. Watching him. He was a great character. So is your read that Cassian, who inherited this manifesto, put this out into the world?

Our messenger? He had to have. Absolutely, right? Yeah. I just love that so much. What an incredible, wonderful thing. And people have been, in breaking down Cassian's, um, costume in Rogue One and identifying Bix's blaster, etc.

There's this little square almost book that he has on his costume up here. And some people are like, is that Nemex Manifesto? It isn't really, but like, I choose to believe it is. I just believe that Cassie and had Nemex Manifesto by his heart as he went into, you know, the events of Rogue One. That makes me really happy. And it makes me think of how proud Marlboro would be of him, you know? And she already was.

She already was. Like Brazo, who didn't get a stone but did get to tell Cassian. In season one, what Marva said, tell him he knows everything he needs to know and feels everything he needs to feel. And when the day comes and those two pull together, he will be an unstoppable force for good. Tell him, I love him more than anything he could ever do wrong. This is where Cassian is. Unstoppable force for good.

Like, this is what is happening. And I love, that's why I was just like when he stopped to water the plants before heading out on his long walk to the U-wing. It's like that was Marva's ritual and that was what she did. Marva's there. And him doing that for her. And she's there with him. It was just like, God, really overwhelming and so beautiful. Oh, man.

The Road to Rogue. Bell has some advice for Cassian, as stay apart. Reconnect with Bix. And what does he say? Joanna. He says, once it settles down, maybe I'll think about it. And she says, don't wait too long. This is both painful, but also, like, maybe one moment where I was like, they pressed on the bruise a little too hard. Like, we're already, like, when Bix gave her speech at the end of the last arc and is like, when this is all over, find me. Like, I think we had already experienced this, but, like, don't wait too long from Vell when we know Cass is about to die.

I was just a little like, I already knew that. We already know that he's going to wait too long. You don't have to say the thing. But yeah, thinking about it coming from, of course, Vell. Yes. Who knows? Yeah. Yeah.

Who knows from waiting for too long? Yeah. I thought this was very, very, very, very, very agonizing. Very, very agonizing. I liked hearing Gilroy talk with Chris and Andy about Bix and Cassian's relationship in their history and the way he described them as like they were each other's first kiss. Got a real kid got to be like, they didn't do really good people on pharynx found each other in her. I love, like, he was talking about how, like, he and his wife talk about these two kinds of

marriages that there's like the marriages where you grow together, you grow up together, and then the marriage where sort of like you meet each other when you're grown. And I kind of like to thinking about that as I continue to contemplate what this relationship with Bix means for how I view Jin, like, if Bix is the person, the marriage that he, like, grew up with, and then Jin, again, they knew each other for just a couple days, but, like, they had this very strong connection in Rogue One. That's the person he meets when he's grown. When he's already cooked, we've seen him arc and arc and arc through these, like, you know,

chunks of time so that he could meet Jin exactly where he needed to be, to be who she needed to be in order to get through this very hard thing that they do together. And so thinking of it is like the two different kinds of the Gilroy marriages, I thought was really interesting. I like that. Shut up, which, which Tony Gilroy did mention.

All the Tims. They can survive all the Tims. Yeah, we'll talk about this morning we get to Rogue One, but I will never watch Rogue One and, you know, their relationship is anything but completely platonic, again, for the rest of my life. So it's interesting. I don't know. I think it's okay to like be attracted to someone.

Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I think there's a connection. But I think, I think, you know, especially in the heels of this conversation with Val, it's like, I don't know. Maybe that's like the, they can survive all the Tims. All the Tins and all the Jins in the world. All the Tims and all the Jins.

This is where Vell kind of like scoops up, Clea in the rain, brings her in. They talk about Luther. This is so important. to me. This is so important to me. I'm thinking about this in the context of like, well, first of all, we noted this at the very beginning of everything when

sort of Bell clocked Clea as a hot piece at the wedding. So that seed was planted right at the beginning. And just connecting these

two characters again. and giving this to Vell who has been grieving Sinta, obviously. And it doesn't have to be romantic, but it definitely is romantic, I think. And I love this. She's like, you're here, you're with, she gives her wandering in the rain.

And she's just like, here's a coat. Here's a blanket. Here's some warmth. Here's some tea. We got this beautiful. beautiful email from Gil, who, again, also wrote, this is only part of a much, much longer email, but Gil wrote, Andor is fascinated by the motives of its revolutionaries. Loss, vengeance, ideology, a yearning for freedom. For Vell, the catalyst is love, not abstract or romanticized,

but embodied, reciprocal, and deeply personal. I'll pause you really quickly to say that elsewhere in his email, the email, sorry, I actually don't know the gender of this person. Elsewhere in the email, they were writing about the idea of the Shandrelin, like, transactional weddings and marriages and how growing up inside of the high society of Shandrilla, how, like, the idea of love is, like, not available to Mon Mothma. She has to marry parent, you know what I mean? So, so back to the email, this idea of love and, embodied reciprocal and deeply personal.

Belle doesn't seek escape from the past, but instead longs to build something more human in its wake. That's why she resists the emotional austerity that Luther, Clea, and Sinta embrace. She understands it, but refuses to adopt it. For Vell, love is not a distraction from the cause. It is the cause. In a world that seeks to deliberately sever connections between individuals and peoples and to punish intimacy and empathy, Vell sees it as the most radical act

to insist on caring for others and to make friends everywhere. So when Clay is stumbled through the rain in the finale, believing she's now well and truly alone in her ever-compounding grief, all that remains of her people, all that remains of Luthin, and all that remains the rebellion they built together,

it is fitting that Vell is the one who finds her. Vell, whom Clay had long viewed with suspicion for her refusal to abandon a woman whose violent isolation mirrors Clea's own, as Vell wraps Clea in one of her coats. There's a brief moment in which she holds Clea's face in her hands. It is quick and almost thoughtless, and yet this is a gesture of facial recognition and care that is so loaded in this series. It was, after all, Clea, who ordered Vell to kill Cassian at the end of Series 1 because

he couldn't identify Lutheran. He could identify Lutheran. This repeats throughout the series multiple times to be seen or run. recognizable is to invite or necessitate violence in response. In this very arc, we spend the overwhelming majority of our time watching as Clea's identifiable features and allegiance are poured over by the empire and the rebellion alike as a target to exterminate, punish, and isolate her. Without a thought, Vell offers her jacket, her home, her food, and her bed. And for the first time in decades, Clea sleeps through the night. She wakes rested to a sun that has already risen,

a son that she believed for years, as recently yesterday, that she would never see. Being seen by Vell and loved by her, Clayah defies each and every one of her own expectations and finds herself coming home. What's up bad, babies? You're the best. This is so beautiful.

I was really struck by the Vell and Claya connection here at the end of all things. And this idea that, like, when we meet Claire in the opening of this arc and she hears the big bell ringing because she is not sleeping or not sleeping soundly inside of the showroom where they live. Like she's there in her jammies and her hair down. Like she was in bed, but she wasn't resting. She hasn't been resting. And here she gets to rest and wake up to the new dawn.

And it's just really beautiful. The smile on her face when she looks out at the place she helped build and gets to see it teeming with life and possibility and hope, that was like magical. Really, really, really lovely. Yeah, it's a beautiful email. And I love thinking about Vell that way. And I love that like, you know, all of the characters who ultimately are going to be the most rewarding and interesting to watch. You know, she has her moments of doubt, too. Like she's such a proponent and believer in a thing.

But like when she and Mon are on the ceremonial wedding hike, Vell's like, no, there's work to be done, you know, has kind of like talked herself into how this could be the way things are. Yeah. And then Mon has to say to her, well, we have to live to do it, though, don't we? And so the way that they're always helping each other to see the path forward. And now Vell can do that for Claya, just as Cassie and told. old Clea, she had in a way done it for him. It's like, that's really what an alliance is, right?

Yeah. It was beautiful. I really loved it. And it was just, I mean, it was really cool to hear like when Clay is saying, you know, Luther always said, you know, you know, you're out before you. And I don't even know where I am. Clay's like, Vell's like, of course you do. Like, you're with friends.

You're with friends. I have friends everywhere. This is a tradecraft code line so that they can go about their missions. And it is like a hyperspace lane to a sense of belonging. for them. Come into the circle. Welcome into the circle. You know?

Really good. Very good. Really, really good. I ship it. I hope that they're happy together. I hope we get to find out what their life is like one day, but only if Tony Gilroy is interested in telling us. Okay. That's all I want.

It'll be great. Belle and Claire do crimes for the rebellion? Sign me up. Sign me up. I'm in. I'm in. Speaking of doing crimes for the rebellion. the rebellion. This is where Draven comes by.

Brings K2 and Melchie back and tells Cassie about Typh. We get the I try exchange. Melchie's like, they were tired to listen to this one and Kay's like, that's a lie. It's very funny. Love a droid banter. They had really great energy together. Cassian's like, well, all right, like, how are we going to do this? And Draven and Mon go to convince Bale.

They have to convince Bail. And then Bail goes to Cassian in the morning and the drops of water are hitting and then we realize that every night, speaking of uneasy sleep, Cassie and Andor, who was worried about how Bix was sleeping, her dreams, is dreaming every night of the sister he lost. I fail her again in my sleep. I'm failing in my sleep. My God, this was heavy. Sleep well? No. Ever sleep? Sleep well? No. Then we have something in common. This is like a very present idea in this conversation between Bale and Cassian because when Bail's like, oh, you know, what changed?

If I died fighting the empire, I want to go down swinging. Cassian's like, you and Luce and have more in common than you realize this was his whole pitch. This was his whole thing. And Bail's like, yeah, but did he look this good in a cloak? Yes, actually. Our listener Jack Rodin, I just want to include this. I'm not going to read this whole email because I just read a very long email, but

Jack's email was just titled, does baseball exist in Star Wars? And this is where I learned that to go down swinging is a baseball term. And I actually didn't know that. I thought, and it is, I corroborated Jack's email. I thought it was like,

I don't know, just go down fighting, go down swinging your fists or your sword or whatever it is. I did not think it was go down swinging at the ball, but apparently it is. And I like Jack, like the idea that there is some version of Alderani baseball that they play and enjoy it. Yeah, Bail's got the MLB package,

and he's got a fantasy league, and he's racking up K's, but he's also a real fan, so he knows, yeah, like, you don't want to strike out looking. No, can't strike out looking. Is that, is that the opposite? Strikeout looking versus go down swinging? Yeah.

Okay. Because if you, if you're looking, I mean, maybe walk. Good or not a walk. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You do want to be patient and, like, work the count. But, like, at the end of the day, you got to take a cut, right? And then bail walks out to go home to Alderan and everything will be fine. Things are fine.

Things are fine. How did you feel about bail hitting him with the, may the force be with you? Fine. I was like, I mean, I think bail. Bail who, who, Bail among the people we meet here who spent time with Jedi, you know, makes Yeah, more sense. We're about to hear it a lot, obviously, in Rogue One. So another nice little bridge there.

And speaking of our bridge, we get that montage, that closing montage that you said Gilroy was working back against. I didn't get a real kick out of him being like, and if we could just not do it in slow motion, that would have been great. This made me fucking sob. I was just like a wreck watching this. This was so emotional, all of it. Cassian suiting up, putting the blast around watering Marva's plants. I thought this was wonderful, melchie, ronchee. running with the soldiers, these people who will be loyal to him and will be loyal to Cassian and

will stand with Cassian, who will stand with Gin, like this group of people who, you know, Bodhi's going to be able to say, like, it's, you know, it's going to be cried, but we can fit. Let's go. Rogue one. I love the Marvel connection is so perfect. It's like clear cut and perfect. We did get this heartbreaking email from Timothy who says, when it hits you on the third viewing that Cassian is watering those plants on Yavin because he wants them alive when the war is over

and Bix returns to him. Pain! Oh my God. Yeah, Melchie, fun fact from Star Wars.com, there are like a couple little, like, alien critters in that troop with Melchie who are also on the, on the scariff.

So, yeah. Beautiful. Well, Dr. Melsche is just like, Melchard you just like running off the hangover, I guess. Now he's spiking the morning coffee for sure. It's just, no, no question. He's just rev nogging through the rest of the of his short life.

Okay, cool. Yeah. Montevil sharing the meal, the new outfit. This is where we got the incredible Perrin. Earing. I just can't believe that Perrin made the closing montage. He had to. This is just a little gift to us.

This is the good shit right here. Clayawaking, looking out, smiling. Dedra in the Narkina jumpsuit and cell on the floor, the red light. the floor is hot like holy shit this was uh and her hair looks real fucked up now no longer must oh my god um the lights going out and we could just see like her silhouette kind of shaking and hear the sobs rough gilroy said on the watch was the box she's been trying to get out of her whole life denise goth by the way is just like love this for dendron she's just like this is where she belongs yeah yeah because denise like us like us

does not enjoy fascists. Love that we got one more glimpse of Saw Guerrera and the place where we will meet him soon. Yeah, this, okay, so the Saw shot looks new. The Krennick shot is definitely from Rogue One because with love and respect, Ben Mendelsohn is a little younger in that shot of him looking at the Death Star that we get here. Great stuff.

Cass passes the Force Healer, Joe. A little moment. This is great. A little nod. Yeah. They lock eyes and he nods. I really liked this. I thought that was, that was lovely.

He gets into the U-wing, tells K where they're going. And with respect to Tivik and Rogue won a great film that we're going to talk about next week. We don't give a shit where they're going because here's what happens next. B. I was trying to think. I was really like, really trying to think. It was cute when I,

because Adam didn't watch the screeners with me. So when we were watching it on Tuesday night on Disney Plus, and this is his favorite show. So he was just like, you know, riveted and so happy. But like really locked in. Like I kept looking at him and he wasn't looking at me at all. He was just locked in. And when B came on the screen, he was just like at me.

It was like, it was really sweet. We did get a lot of emails from people being like, how excited is Mallory that we got to see B. I was so happy. I felt like I should never have doubted it for a second. We deserved it. They knew we deserved it. They knew we wanted it and needed it.

They gave me a little friend. Taliah is there. Talia, who we like so much from Mina Rao. She's like, I'm still in- Good care of my guy, B. They can care of B. Yeah. And also,

Be gets to hang out with Bix. And Cassie and Jr. And Bix's baby. I love knowing that Bix and Bix and B-E are together. It really makes me happy. It needs a lot to me. I think this is as relieved as I've been to see a character. again since ghosts at the end of thrones.

Like, what? Seriously, I was like trying to think of what else I could pick up close. I'm just so happy we got this little glimpse. You're going to read a quote from Tony Gilroy about sort of Bix in her baby in a second. I just want to say really quickly. We got a lot of, I would say the majority of emails we got

from our listeners. And again, we got hundreds of emails. Were people who were actually like fairly uncomfortable, felt very passionately uncomfortable with this ending for Bix. did not like that baby. And plenty of people did love that ending for Bix and love that baby. But I was just say from my part, and I think some of the arguments are quite compelling.

I think for my part, and this actually might be damning because I'm like, it's not even about Bix for me. I'm like, B. gets to grow up like with a, like gets to grow up with this little boy, like this little boy and B are going to like Be pals until, you know, forever. B's going to be fine forever. To be, like, helping to raise Cassia's child is deeply meaningful and moving to me, but also extremely sad. I mean, Cassian not knowing about this and not getting to meet his kid

and this kid not getting to me Cassian is obvious, is really, like, really heavy and hard. I, yeah, I thought this was like, it was interesting to think about Bix's decision through the lens of knowing, that she was pregnant and Bix knowing that she was pregnant. I thought there was something about not only the look on her face, she's looking up at this guy and she's smiling.

There's this like very, you know, a repensive, but also a gentle tone to the score here, right? Like the keys. Very pastoral. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yes. And it felt to me incredibly sad. I was sobbing.

I was texting you and Chris, I was like inconsolable. I had to see these episodes for so many reasons. But it felt like a really sad and mournful note and sorrowful note to not to know that they weren't going to share this life together, but also like a little hopeful one, new life, you know, new possibility. Oh, definitely, definitely trying to be, like, and especially having your look at the sky and thinking about the final shots of Rogue One. Yeah. And thinking about this sunrise you'll never see. But, you know, this idea that like, there's a sunrise that Luton will never see, but Clay, I will see.

it. And there's a sunrise that Cassine will never see, but his kid will see it. That relay race passing the baton down generations and stuff like that. I can understand, I don't know, I'm actually at this point a little of two minds about it. I'm not mad about it at all. I wasn't like, ah, Jesus, which a lot of our listeners were. But I'm compelled by some of their arguments, but I'm also just sort of like thinking about B in that baby. really sweet to me. So, yeah. Here's what Gilroy said. This was in his interview with James Hepbard at the Hollywood Reporter. He said, I think it makes his sacrifice that much more bitter, his being Cassians, of course. And I think that for anybody who had any lingering doubts about

Bix leaving in episode nine, it explains it for anybody who was hesitant about buying into that scene. And finally, ultimately, I was desperate to end on a hopeful note. Rebellions are built on hope isn't just a T-shirt. It's a legit flame that a lot of people need to see. So hopefully I was ending on something that was upbeat and it was important for me to do that. That was very beautiful. Tony. It's not just a t-shirt. What a show. My God. Legit flame. Absolutely beautiful. And then we got a bunch of emails from people who wanted to note that you hear over the closing credits, you hear the Rogue One score. And then you go into not just like any old Star Wars music. It's the music that plays over the metal ceremony.

at the end of a new hope plays at the end of this. So again, in terms of like thinking of the end, I mean, obviously Star Wars goes ever on after a new hope, but like thinking about the end of this chapter, this Death Star-centric chapter of Star Wars storytelling and thinking about like, yeah, all of these characters, none of these characters that we're seeing in the show are at that metal ceremony, but they all are in their own way there, you know.

And now we know. Even you, Perrin. Perrin. Pera was at the bar. He missed the ceremony. He was at the bar. Yeah. Oh, man.

Just devastated that it's over. Me too. I'm crushed. I'm crushed. I'm glad that we're going to watch Rogue One next week, though. And a new hope. And actually, can I, can I, can we next week do, like, our definitive as of right now, Star Wars rankings and where everything sits and where Andor has a movie TV mixed list?

Yeah. Let's say top 10. Top 10 and you're allowed to put shows in there. I'll try. I'll try. It's hard. Mixing the movies of the shows is hard. I think I can, I can, I can, I can do it, I think.

It gets really hard at a certain point to be like, how am I weighing, like, these things against each other? Do you want to do, like, seasons of television? That's just going to ask, is it specific season? No, I think that would even be harder, actually. That's probably hard. Well, it is, I mean, like, the reason I would, only reason I would want to do this is I would like to peel Mandalorian season one away from the rest of the Mandalorian, but... Oh, no.

Manda Season 2 rules. Come on. But it's not as good as Manda's season one. I think Manda's season one is, like, way above the rest, and then season three is whatever. Anyway, Star Wars, we love it. It's the best. It's been great to have a really, really, really wonderful time talking about Star Wars. Yeah.

It's spending time in a galaxy. far, far away. I've loved it. I'll really miss this show. I'm glad we get to hang on for one more week. And then, you know what? We don't need excuses to talk about Andrew. We'll revisit it whenever we want. Every May at least. Every May at least. All right. We did it. We didn't bring our record, man. I know. I'm shocked but proud. But all of our threats. Shocked but proud. Thank you. Thank you to all the bad babies for sharing Andor with us, all of the incredible emails, listening to these incredibly long podcasts every week. We do not take it lightly. We cherish the time that you spend with us.

You know you have a lot of options that you fly. Thank you to our our little alliance here, our little rebel alliance here at the House of our Steve Allman, Carlos Chiroboga, John Richter, producing this episode, producing these episodes. Thank you to Arjuna, Rumpel for his production supervision and join me a dinner on. Yeah, feel better. for the work on the social for this episode and all of our Andor pods. Until next time, the tension mounts.