House of R - 'Andor' Showrunner Tony Gilroy on World-Building, the Ideology of 'Andor,' and Characters He'll Miss Writing For

Episode Date: June 3, 2025

Mal and Jo are joined by ‘Andor’ showrunner Tony Gilroy! They dive into everything from the world-building and ideology of ‘Andor’ to the fate of the Maya Pei Brigade, what’s in Syril’s box, and much more! (00:00) Intro(05:08) Speeches and Quotes in ‘Andor’(07:16) World-Building in ‘Andor’(10:24) The Sense of Place and Ideology in ‘Andor’(15:30) Balance of Characters(21:15) Power Dynamics and How They Shift(23:32) If You Made ‘Rogue One’ After ‘Andor,’ How Would it Be Different?(25:41) Jyn and Cassian’s Relationship(26:52) Figuring Out Character Retributions(29:42) Luthen and Saw(34:35) Staying in His Five-Year Period(36:40) Taking the Ideas of ‘Andor’ and Moving Beyond It(43:39) Which Characters Will You Miss Writing For?(46:11) Cinta Kaz and Tay Kolma’s Demise(48:00) B2EMO and a Farewell Scene with Cassian(51:57) Budget Restrictions Where They Had to Get Creative(56:56) Lessons to Take from ‘Andor’(01:00:35) Syril’s Private Box and Enza(01:03:04) Did Anyone from the Maya Pei Brigade Survive? Hosts: Mallory Rubin and Joanna RobinsonGuest: Tony GilroyProducers: Carlos Chiriboga and John RichterSocial: Jomi AdeniranAdditional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode is brought to by Paramount Plus. Beth and Rip are back in a new series, Dutton Ranch. Kelly Riley and Colehouser returned, and this time they're taking on Texas. As Beth and Rip build a future together, peace will have to wait as they face corruption, danger, and a ruthless rival ranch, willing to protect its secrets at all costs. Legacy is a beautiful thing, but only if it survives. Dutton Ranch starring Colehouser, Kelly Riley,

Annette Benning and Ed Harris now streaming on Paramount Plus. This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market. Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce and some very tasty, limited time flavors. New Whole Foods, Market Peach, Apricot, Rose, Italian soda. Perfect for a picnic or brunch, as is their trending mango, Yuzu chantilly cake. But if you're on the go, new 365 strawberry pretzels make a great sweet snack. That sounds delicious.

Get savings with yellow sale sign. Shorewide and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring. Save at Whole Foods Market. Greetings. And welcome to House of Our, the Ringerverse podcast on the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Mallory Rubin.

She's coming home to herself, and tomorrow she's coming home to me because she's driving down to Los Angeles. It's Joanna Robinson. in. Myrerman, I cannot wait for our listeners to hear some of the things that are in store for them inside of this episode. We're talking to Tony Gilroy today.

Tony Gilroy's here. The whole pod is a Tony Gilroy interview. What an absolute fucking thrill. And if you're going to ask, hey, did Mallory get emotional talking about a droid? She did. Hey, did Mallory get horny talking about Cyril and Dedra? She did. It's all there waiting for you inside of this interview.

And, you know, similarly. if you're like, didn't Joanna ask about the Maya Bay Brigade? She did. So everybody was extremely themselves, basically. But seriously, we had an incredible time talking to Tony, looking back at the entire and or experience, not just the finale, all of it, the entire show, the entire second season, the series,

what it has meant to Star Wars fans. Really wonderful to hear from him and chat about this beautiful show. and if you're like, boy, you guys did a Rogue One pod last week, now you're doing this, you can't stop talking about Andor. Correct. Who knows what we will figure out next week? I don't know. Probably something. Sure. We'll figure it out. Ranking Will's girlfriends. There's only two of them. That we know of. That we know of. Here's what we do know for sure is coming on the programming front. We are, as mentioned, going to be in person together, join. on a later this week. And our beloved pal, Rob Mahoney, will also be here. And so the three of us are getting together and we're doing a house of our draft together. We are doing one of our, I would say, least easy to explain and understand house of our draft rubrics, which is the build the best

X movie. We've done it for Batman. We've done it for Spider-Man. It is just a really fun way to look at a larger. The social team hates to see us coming. You know, here we are. We will be doing this for Mission Impossible. Build the best Mission Impossible movie. And it is just a fun way on the heels of Final Reckoning to look back at all of the other movies. Yeah. You know, we'll have a chance to get our Final Reckoning thoughts on the record.

Yeah. Yeah. Can't wait. We will have, as we previously teased our season. seasonal height meter, summer height meter is going to be coming next week. So that's something to look forward to as well, the Midnight Boys. Beep-p-bue. Racist movie's draft. That's come in the middle of this week. It's going to be Can't Miss. Can't miss. Cannes. Cannot wait for that. Joanna, how can everybody follow along?

So thrilled and delighted you asked me. Listen, I would suggest you follow the pods wherever you enjoy doing that. Watch the pods. You can look at Tony Gilroy's incredible hair inside of this episode. He beamed in live from Lucasville in the Presidio, and the hair was looking incredible. He did a glasses change. I think it's worth checking out the video. If you want to see him doubled over with laughter at something that Malia Rubin asked him, I really suggest you watch the video of this interview.

So yeah, follow the pod. Why not do that? Follow us on social. That's a good idea, something that you might want to do. And as always, you can email us. Hobbes and Dragons at gmail.com, we read one of your emails to Tony Gilroy, and he was profoundly intrigued by it, I think it's safe to say. So y'all are the best. We love the bad babies. Thank you so much for all of your thoughts on Andor and other matters.

Here's the spoiler warning for today. Andor. If it ever happened in Andor, it might come up today. Human history. If it happened in Rogue One, if it happened in Star Wars, if it happened in the history of the world, it could come up today. The French Revolution. Yeah. more. Yeah. Okay. Should we do it? Should we get to our interview with Tony? Let's do it. Tony, thank you for joining us today. We are thrilled to talk to you about genuinely one of our favorite shared experiences, which was watching and covering Andor together. Star Wars fans like to point to force ghosts as a manifestation of the eternal. But there is, of course, another way to achieve

immortality in Star Wars. And that is by writing something that Star Wars will be quoting to each other for the rest of their lives. Andor was full of these mesmerizing memorable speeches. Lutheran speech to Lonnie, Marva's funeral hollow, Nemex Manifesto, Mon's speech to the Senate, on and on the list goes an obviously more indelible bursts of dialogue than we could possibly go through right now. It's ingrained. It's ingrained into how we think about and talk about Andor with each other.

it's ingrained into how we think about Star Wars and life more broadly now. So what does it mean to you to know that you and your team have given shape to and found poetry in these ideas that people will now be sharing with each other for decades and decades to come forever, like passing down these and or quotes to each other, almost like a sort of inheritance? It's on a scale of incoming, affirmation that really takes time to absorb.

I don't think that we, I don't think any of us on the show really are going to have any real perspective on how, you know, we're very proud and we're, we're all, we're all just blown away by what we, I mean, we've been on the road now for six or seven weeks,

most of us and watching what's been happening and just the response we've been getting. And I think, I think it's, I think it's still too close to really fully let in the sort of institution. You know, edifice that you're talking about. I mean, pride, I guess, more than anything. I think you'd have to ask me in a year or two what I think about it. It's so much to take in.

It really has been a lot to take in. Above the language, another thing that we've loved about Andor is the world building. And, you know, we've talked about this a lot on this podcast, the way in which you've taken something that Star Wars was known for, which is this idea of desert planet, jungle planet, and given us these very specific cultures. of the Gorman or Aldani or, you know, Mina Rao or Ferricks or whatever the case may be. And I'm curious, from your point of view as a world builder inside of this larger universe,

what do you think is most important in establishing a distinct identity for a place? So we understand what is at risk if the empire homogenizes the galaxy? They have to be real. You have to believe in them. You have to want to go there yourself. It has to be, it's one of the most fun things. And I didn't anticipate that when we started. You know, in the first blush of coming on this and meeting Luke,

and as we started, we started building pharix and, you know, I started drawing, I drew my very first crude map of ferrics, which I sent to Luke, which they have. And it's like, it's just a gas to, like, be an anthropologist in reverse. you know and and and um i guess i've done a lot of traveling i've i've traveled a lot around the world the movie business has taken me a lot of places and uh and personally i've gone a lot of places and if if you're really curious i guess and you have your eyes i don't it's it's it's it's so uh the one thing i'll say that's i think is really important that that that's it's so unusual

about this project for to come on a project like this is that the design is so completely um integrated with the writing. It really is the figuring out the gloves on the wall in Ferricks and figuring out the, you know, the, the, the vibe in Niamos or the, you know, what, what, Luthens shop or any of the things we've done. They're all writing. And that's, that's something that doesn't really usually happen on, on my job. When we think of Neimos, we think of the Pizos and the Revnaug. Pizos, thank you.

He just had a whole conversation. We don't know why ILM does not have a Pizos dispenser here. It's a reasonable question. It's a reasonable question. Yep. And, you know, the greeny green and green ones. The green and green ones. It's become a recurring refrain for us on the pod.

We love to mention the green and green ones. I found three, we were asking about it. I found, I could remember three spots. I'm not sure if there's more than three spots. Maybe you know more than I do. But there's where Wendy asks him about the greenie-green ones. There's him in the bodega where he's looking for them. Then the guys come into the store and Mina Rao, the general store, and ask if they had pesos.

That's it, right? It's those three, I think so. Amid the space fields of rye and the little Trader Joe's there with the barrel of fresh product. I want my Pizos. I want my Pizos. It looked wonderful. I'm curious to ask a semi-related question and stick with this, this. idea of just the sense of place and this fully realized sense of place and then how that

forges a lasting bond. You know, one of the things Joe and I covered season one together and of course have just covered season two together. And one of the things that we were just genuinely so struck by and so moved by was how Farik's Stone and Sky became this refrain and the way that Cassian and Will, when they would embrace and Cassian would put his hand in the back of Will's neck to cradle him and ask him to stay and be safe and show him that he loved him, that was the thing that they would say to each other, the shorthand that encapsulated inside of it an entire history. And thinking about alliance building and forging and sustaining a rebellion, one of the things that is obviously required to do that is empathy, right?

Empathy for other people and their plight, trying to establish some understanding into somebody else's culture and life that is actually different from yours. And so we're curious, like, how that idea, Farak, Stone and Sky, something that is so specific to Cassian, to Will, to Bix, to Brazo, to Sweet B, B, who will be coming up many times today, our beloved B2 emo, how the idea of what was lost, right? This place that they aren't anymore, this place that they're no longer able to build a life together and share together. The thing that was lost is what allows them to forge the desire and the conviction, to be able to be able to build a life together, to share together. make sure somebody else doesn't lose that, too. Man, I mean, capital yes to all of that. That is you are right at the hot center of the whole thing in several pieces.

I mean, empathy, yes. Empathy, empathy, empathy. I mean, I just did a whole long interview trying to explain why Hollywood is more progressive by nature, because there's nothing like pretending to be other people to make you realize that maybe you should look beyond your own momentary needs. The same interview, refracting back, I feel as if you're just doing a commentary on the piece I just did, there is no ideology expressed by the rebellion.

there's no one ever says this is what I want our this is what I want the galaxy to look like when we are done right and but but but but the the common I think what what really is the overwhelming ideology that is expressed and I think it covers for for for all of that is community and that is the destruction of community is what the empire is about and it could be it could be the community of your, you know, of your, it could be colonialism. It can be imperialism. It can be the destruction of ferrics. It can be taking apart more Lana one, you know, at the beginning. We're going to absorb the corporate companies.

It is all about what happens when community gets destroyed. And if you look, I've heard Diego and Adria on the press tour re-articulated again, you know, when Cassian is talking to Clea, when he comes off, when he comes off, it gets out of the Maya Pay Brigade, what's happening at home? What's happening at home, home, home, home. And particularly if you are, if you are Cassian, which makes him such a great messenger for this story is that he has had all of his homes ripped away from him. Right? All of it. And stone and sky, all those little things.

They, we build the worlds. Luke and I build the worlds and the writers come in and help out and the actors inhabit. And then we go farther and Michael Wilkins gets involved and we're dressing the places. And suddenly they're alive and we're making languages and national anthems. But they're so alive and they're so real that, I mean, I never thought after we wrote the song, you know, the Stone and Sky chanting in Ferricks, I never thought, oh my God, that'll be a thing that somebody says to each other later on

when they're when they're in exile. But it's just the pieces are so vivid and they're so true that they actually, they take on a life of their own. And yeah, and I think, I mean, I really think you hit it. I mean, it's people just want their communities. They want to have, they want to have that sense of belonging and they want to

and the Empire does it. The community inside of the show is a vast one because it is a large cast with a number of storylines and a number of different places. We're going to hit a few different character-centric questions before circling back to some bigger themes again. But want to to actually start with the idea

of finding this calibration when you have this many people in the mix. Some of the characters, who had a less central role in season one, like Clea or Lonnie or even Hirt, or a guy Hirt, really moved to the four more actively in season two. And then you have some characters like

our beloved Perrin, for example, who have always been deployed judiciously, right, in moderation, and yet still adds so much texture, not only to every scene that he's in, but to our ability to, like, understand what Mon Mothma's life is like, right? What is it like at home? and what is it like out on the social scene and navigating how that entwines

with the political imperatives, etc. So curious, like, how you managed that balance in a story with this many different compelling performers, compelling characters, compelling ideas, how often were the decisions about who to feature when and in what way driven by your enthusiasm or somebody on your team's enthusiasm for writing for a given performer?

like, for example, when every single part of gas line is the single most memorable thing that's ever happened in the history of television, how can you resist? How can you possibly resist giving them more? And how often was that dictated by the needs of the plot? Like, we have to explain how this information is getting to Luthin so that people have enough of a sense of understanding of how information is traveling, or was it always just about balance? It's really symbiotic. It's all of the above. and then I'll go back and I'll give one little example. But, like, you know, having a lot of characters who are really good and in motion means I don't have to hang out anywhere very too long. And if I need something, I have it. You know, there it is. I've got to move this store.

I got to get back here. I got to do this. I got this. I got this. I got this. It really, it's really like packing the trunk for a long trip. They're all there and what do I need? What's in the trunk?

You know, the actors that we got, I mean, they're just so extraordinary. But I mean, also in a really specific way, like what's a really Wilmon, you know, Mo, who plays Wilmon. He was really just, he was Salmon Paxon in the beginning, and we cast him, and he was good, and he looked like Salmon and fine, and he's the kid. And then, he'll make up, let's have him make a bomb, let's have him throw the bomb. And then when we did it, it's like, well, who's going to get on the truck at the end to get out of there? And really put in there because I thought, oh, my God, it's been so sad and so tragic. And so much has just happened, they definitely know the kid who threw the bomb. And whatever, the retribution is going to be here, it's not going to be good.

So let's put Wilmot on the truck and he can get out. And he made it on the thing. I don't know at that point how far I'm going to go with him. and he was very good during the season. But we hadn't cut everything together. It hadn't all been cut together. Hadn't seen all the final, hadn't seen all the moments that really,

wow, he's really good. And I talked to Mo on the break, the long break, and talk to him and, you know, talk to the directors who'd worked with him and tried to find out, can I, you know, how much can I invest in this? Is he solid?

Is he, you know, what kind of person is he? and how good an actor can he be? And so we brought him back. But you're testing, you know, a little bit, a little bit. And I had to give him some sense of the responsibility that he was taking on. But there's a character that, and then think of all the things that he does for me in season two. He's the surrogate's shadow son.

As Cassian leaves, he becomes Luther. He really becomes the defender of Luton, when all other. have gone. He becomes my link to, I mean, he becomes a really, a really great plot device for me to move the story along. But he also, he's growing up on the show. So he's, he's a character who's aging in the right direction. He's a player. He's got girlfriends everywhere. Everywhere. Yeah. Exactly. That's a cool little thing. And like, and, and it turns out that Mo is a really, really good actor. And so it's, and that same story that is happening all over the place with all so many other characters. And so, you know, you want to take attendance.

You don't want to leave anybody too far behind and, you know, but you don't ever want to put anybody in because you didn't need him. You know, it's, yeah. Wow, we got to watch him Huff Rito. What a gift. I know, what a treasure. I know, man. I mean, I know. Mallory got to say Huffing Rito, her favorite thing to talk about.

Were you happy that when you watched Rogue, were you happy to know what was in that tank now? Oh, it's like, we can't stop talking about it. We, you know, obviously you've joined our beloved colleagues and friend, Chris and Andy on the watch a couple times. And we, Joanna and I have a very vibrant group chat with Chris where we pretty much exclusively talk about soccer. Huffing Rido and Rido. Yeah. All we talk about. on the rogue one front

something that was you know like so many people when we finished and or we went right into rewatching rogue one for the hundredth time but through a different lens and something that was so enjoyable among many other things was sort of tracking the power differential

of Krenick watching Krenick go from you know the most powerful guy in the room with his finger on the top of Dedra's head to getting belittled by Tarkin, choked out by Vader, you know, within the span of a couple days. And so in this power, yo-yoing is not just Krenic. It goes for a lot of different people. When are you the most powerful person in the room?

And when are you on the back foot? And what is it about like fascism or the imperial rule that specifically courts something like that? And I was just, I was thinking about, we're always thinking about our dynamic and his manifesto in this idea of brittle authority. or masking fear. And I was just wondering, what were you most interested in saying about that maybe through someone like Krenick? Well, I'm saying it directly through Cyril and Dedra, for sure.

And then through Partagas, ultimately. I mean, yeah, I mean, fascism comes for, you know, it comes for the courts first, and then it comes for your property, and then it comes for your church, or it comes for your neighbor, and it comes for, you know, it has a long list of appetites.

along the way. And in the end, it always comes for its early proponents, its early adopters, its employees, it's, its middle management. Everybody gets eaten in the end. There's only, there's only, I never, I never, I never, I never, I watched, I watched, Roe a week ago with my wife, I finally put it on to see what would happen because I was nervous about it. I, I saw what you, what you're talking about. I hadn't, I hadn't really thought, I hadn't, I hadn't, planned on that development of watching him diminished and become a middle manager again. But it works because the idea is so articulated the rest of the way through. I mean, that's really they, yeah, I mean, everybody loses their parking space after a while,

you know? Let's stick with Rogue One for a second here. I have a question that I can see it in advance is inherently paradoxical, because Rogue One obviously came first and thus gave us. Andor, and so I will now ask you to engage in a thought experiment in which that was not the order in which that happened. If you were embarking upon Rogue One now, if you were approaching it now after Andor had concluded, how would you think about the mission of that film differently? Would you think about it differently? Would there be anything about Cassian's final act of service

that you viewed in a new light or through a new lens? Would there be any themes that you had explored in Andor that you would want to center in a different way in Rogue One? And, you know, are there any characters who you spend time with across two seasons of the series who you find yourself wishing could be there in the movie? That question would give me a headache. I have to admit, I don't really want to talk about rogues so very much. I was really pleased when I saw it. I was nervous to see it, but everyone kept telling me it was working and enhanced and everything. When I watched, I was really pleased at how proper we were.

with the information. The information works perfectly. And I'm really pleased with, with, with how it tracks for Cassian and, and, and, and, and, all the way through. Tonily, um, you know, tonally, musically, visually, in certain ways, there's things that I see that you may not see. And there's also just a huge amount of construction that I can't escape seeing. So that question gives me a headache. I don't know what I would do. I'm pretty well pleased. The fact that rogue works and works as well as it does right now is is um is satisfaction enough for me it does it's it's astonishing how well it works and it's astonishing how much and or enhances what's already there just deepens it um it's it's pretty were you did you uh how heavily invested when you saw

when you were when there was only rogue how invested were you in in in in in in in in in in kassian as the love that that that that is the greatest love story ever told. I don't think we're the world's number one, gin and Cassie and Shippers, but I think it's been a really interesting journey to go on. Like, all season, I was asking Mallory, as we were watching the Bix and Cassie in relationship develop, as we're watching them do beautiful pharynxian hand gestures with each other, I was like, what does this make us feel about gin or so? How are we feeling about gin? And I think where we landed on our Rogue One rewatch was this idea of, you know, find solace where you can find solace in these really extreme. times and we don't see it as a betrayal of bicks necessarily, but it's just sort of, there's something there.

No, it's very chaste, but it really is, I mean, who are you going to be with at the end of the world, you know? Yeah. Yeah. We're like rewatching it and looking at the moment where they're staring into each other's eyes and circling each other or sharing a very intimate ride down the elevator and thinking, you know what? If the love of your life, your life partner said, we're not going to do this right now.

You need to go focus on saving the galaxy. if you end up having sex with somebody in an elevator while saving the galaxy, that's really your prerogative. I think that was where we landed. It's also Cassian, right? It's Cassian, andor. It's quite Cassian. You mentioned, I want to circle back to this idea of everybody loses their parking space

because obviously at the end of one of the satisfying things at the end of Andor season two is watching the chickens come home to roost for some of these characters, watching this retribution show up for some of these characters, We, like you, really empathize with and feel for Cyril Karn, and we feel like Who Are You is one of the most stunning things we've ever seen. But there's, like, a number of other endings, whether it's Partigas, taking matters into his own hands, Dedra, In a Cell, Kirt being used as meat shields down the hallway. Do you think of it as sort of meeting out punishment or how do you decide which character lands,

Who's going to wind up in jail? Who's going to pick up their blaster at the end of and or season two? How? Well, at the beginning of, at the end of season one, I told, I very specifically remember telling Luke's, because we throw everything away. They're so storing things is not a great, I mean, I'm here at ILM,

but they have all this stuff they've saved, but boy, oh boy, when you try to find stuff that's been left behind, behind. So I said, save me an arcina piece. I know I want to have that. Save me. I don't know what I'm going to do with it, save me that. I think it's most appropriate. It's what, I mean, I mean, it's not pin the tail on the donkey. I'm making, I'm making decisions about what I think is the best, most poetic, most righteous. What's the one that feels the right? I think I got him right. I think she needs to end up there in a place where she's back in a box. She's, you know, I grew up in an imperial

Kinder Block. She's back in a ward of the state. I think that's a really round for anybody who's really paying attention. That's a round story. The Partagos listening to Nemek was a really happy morning to think of that. When that came through, it's like, oh my God, really, really. To be able to put Nemek's speech in the conference room and not have it be a voice, a voice and analyze. but that moment, that was just too good to, I mean, that, that, that just, you get, you get a feeling when something drops. That's my feeling. When something's natural, you get the right idea, it just drops. Here, he's just such an asshole. He has to, I mean, he's so, he's so hateful that, uh, that seemed cool for him. Um, who else did you mention? Um, who else is

there? I think, I think you hit the main one. I mean, they just felt right. Yeah. Just felt right. Are you looking for support in your weight management journey? Zepbound tersephatide may be able to help. Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with obesity.

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Zepbound is approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5, or 15 milligrams. injection. Zepbound contains terseptide and should not be used with other terseptide containing products or any GLP1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Zepound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pens or reuse needles. Don't take up allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer, or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop Zepbound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems.

Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia. If you're nursing, pregnant, plan to be, or taking birth control pills. Taking Zepbound with a sulfoniluria or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems. Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-99-79 or visit Zephyhy. Bounds.lily.com. Let's hit the characters on the other side of the fight who are, you know, also supremely flawed, as both seasons of the show explore in such indelible fashion.

Luton and Saw. Luton and Saw offer us two lenses into this idea, including very memorably, of course, in scenes with each other. In season one, Luton As Saw, aren't you tired of fighting with people who agree with you? And, you know, Saul says later, I'm the only one with clarity of purpose, just iconic stuff from both of them. And it's just so interesting to track their arcs because, you know, at the end of the day, neither could quite cease the former. And both ultimately felt the pull of the ladder, right? And Luton felt that he could not go to Yavin, despite Cassian begging him. And the place where Cassian, you know, we would hear him like beautifully say to Clayah, come see the place that you helped.

build. And it is just impossible to leave the show, to leave the experience of watching the show without obviously toasting Luton as this titan of the rebellion, a hero who, you know, as he so memorably told Lonnie, like, burned his life to make a sunrise that he knew he'd never see. But it's also, I think, impossible to leave the show without thinking about the other side of this alliance building and found family forging that we often, you know, have the, the tendency to, like, cheer. It's a meaningful thing to us as fans to cheer when we're watching Star Wars, there was a time for Luton and Saw, and then there wasn't. Yeah.

Why did it feel so essential to not only include characters like this, and maybe we just focus on Luthan specifically here or anybody else you'd like to hit, but like in Luton's case, to really build so much of not just your universe, but the moral calculus and assessment of your universe for us at home, for the other characters inside of the world around him because it's now just so difficult for us to think about Ander or Star Wars or the very idea of sacrifice without thinking of him. He's so ingrained. I mean, it's a classic, it's a classic dynamic. The originators, the original gangsters, the people who are light the flame, the people who do the startup in their garage, who come up with the big idea. The, the, the, the, the, the

skill set and the energy and the drive that that might get you there is not the one that has the strong follow through. And that's just, I mean, I don't know, Robespierre. What happens to him? Right. I mean, you know, there are figures like this throughout every rebellion, every political movement, every organization, every business has the person who just, oh my God, well, you know, Joel, he came up with the idea, but God, you know, he just can't deal with him anymore. And so there's a classic aspect of it that you want to piggyback on. It's good drama. I know that, I know Saw, I know how Saw's going down. I already know that from rogue so I

I know that I know that he's not going to be included I know that Luthen doesn't get to Yavin because he's not in rogue so he's and if he's going to go down it's really so valuable for me to have Cassian have to examine his

Odyssey, his path that he's been on and I love when he defends him in the in episode 12. I love when he when he kind of makes amends with him and kind of, you know, admits his affection and his need

and as difficult as it was, I feel like they're really bound back up again. The scene, I really, there's sneaky scenes, the scene, their last scene together, on the flip side, the scene where Luthon is behind the Senate and Luthin the pragmatist, Lutth in the,

the cold-blooded analyst is a bit bedazzled by his circumstances. Why are you still alive? How are you always there when I needed you? And that little bit of pixie dust for Luthan,

I just love that moment. And they get interrupted. They can't finish the conversation. It's a conversation that never finishes. But that's a real dynamic. It fits dramatically for what I want to do. It fits canonically with where they're going to end up.

So it's kind of perfect for me. You've invoked Robs Pierre, Raimed Terror. And you've so consistently talked about the fact that this is a show not just for

our time, but for all time, right? That these are the cycles, the rebellions, and the imperial encroachment is again and again a cycle of our human history, maybe just the human experience, maybe just the experience of living creatures in this world. And so I'm curious, you know, I know that you weren't thinking too, too far ahead in terms of what comes next along the Star Wars timeline.

But I think what's fascinating watching Monmouthma, for example, inside of Andor, is this notion that she will ultimately, by some definitions, fail as a leader. because under her leadership, the seeds are planted for the rise of the First Order. And so I'm wondering if you're thinking at all about this idea, as we celebrate these victories, that they are temporary victories or temporary steps forward for a rebellion or an effort and not a permanent quashing of imperial power. How do you think about these things as cycles? I'm not playing forward.

It was very disorienting for me to. step outside my five-year period. If I went backwards and looked at stuff, if I went forward and looked at stuff, I started watching Mandalorian in the beginning, but then I couldn't watch it anymore because as cool as it was, I loved it, but I was like, it made me, I lost my frequency.

So I really, I didn't find it helpful to know what was going to happen after so much. So I thought if I get everybody where they need to get, that'll have to take care of itself. I was a little bit, I definitely siloed my period off to make it work as a defense mechanism, I suppose, as much as anything. Because there was so much else to do anyway. It was like, yeah, yeah. Well, let me ask you another sort of a show for our time question.

One of my favorite emails that I think we've ever gotten from a listener in the many years of this show was about this, we think of it as a sort of relay race, baton passing nature of the idea of rebellions are built on hope. And our listener, who's the name I have is John, hopefully that's their real name, wrote this, which I think about all the time now. When the problems are this big, it feels like solutions have to be equally large. And so none of us are content to settle for reactions that feel too small. We crave big ideas because the threats are so overwhelming. However, I think this is where it is important to remember how the relay race of rebellion and resistance works. Even if our resistance is, something is seemingly small, as sharing hope with others, we have no idea what dividends it might

pay down the road. And I guess I just wanted you to weigh in on this idea. Nemic once again comes through with us, for us, always. This idea of even the smallest act of insurrection pushes our lines forward. This idea of paralysis that comes when people are inside a fascist reign or, you know, or imperial encouragement of like, what can I possibly do? And this idea of, do something, do anything. What is the small thing that you can do? What is the community building that you can do? You know, how much is that idea resonating with you around the story of Andor?

A lot. I mean, what does he say at the campfire in Aldani? The pace of repression has become so fast. You know, there's 40 atrocities happening, you know, at once. How can we pay attention? I think that is a paralysis that people can get with. What I, what just is really overwhelming is the comment that you read and those kinds of discussions which seem to be happening everywhere, every time I look online, so many people that we speak to, the eloquence, the eloquence with which people have viewed the show and commented on it and, and, and, thought about it and argued with each other about it is, I mean, you don't even dare fantasize

that you'll have that kind of conversation start on a project that you're working on imaginatively. You just can't even imagine, oh, I'm going to work on this thing and then people, you know, a million people are going to be talking about it amongst themselves and not just that they liked it or didn't like it or did you understand this. They're going to be talking about it in a, in a, in a, they're going to be taking the ideas farther than the show itself ever took them. They're going to be using the ideas of the show as points of departure for their own conversations, for their own communities, for their own use. It's humbling. It is really humbling.

It's been such a cool thing for us to witness with our audience as well. And that email that Joe just read was beautiful and really touched us when we talked about it the week that we received it. but it has been like a deluge all series long of, I mean, honestly, what we would consider like. I see it. I see it. We all see it. We've been on the tour like six, seven weeks now.

And, you know, in various, you know, in various groups, you know, all actors and Stellan was with us for a while. I mean, everybody been out on the road. And so we're all, and my brothers and everybody on that. I mean, we're all just, we're all just every now and then looking down and looking at a, looking at a comments page or looking at something that somebody's forwarded to us or something that somebody's, you know, said. And we're, we are, we're blown away. We're really, we're all blown away. I think one of the things that we've loved about the community around the show and the discussion around it is you get these like dissertation worthy insights and reflections. and then also people really having fun,

really having fun with the material. There are so many people that are so much smarter than I am, commenting on the show. There are things that people are saying and writing and referencing than I'm like, oh my God, I could never get there. How do you do this? It's, I mean, you, it makes you realize what your skill set is and that it's not universal.

No, it makes you realize that this is what, this is the thing that you can do. But it's really, we really are. I don't want to be like a, yeah, I mean like a comment freak or, you know, but it's way better than like I didn't never mind did test screenings. You know, when you had a test screening, you could take your show out and watch it with an audience and you could vampire through the audience and feel what you felt.

I always thought that was valuable. I like to see the, I like to see, sometimes you can bring in just a couple people. And if there's just a stranger in the room, you'll watch it differently. I hated focus groups. I hated them because you'd sit down there at the front of the theater and there'd be the interlocutor or the interviewer and there'd always be one or two people who just needed an audience and would say anything to fuck you up. And all of a sudden that would turn into a lynch mob or something and people, and it was just, it was all distorted. There is something of all the things that are wrong with social media, there is something from my point of view, from a creative point, creator point of view, when you get this largest sample. I mean, this is a huge sample.

To be able to serve through that in some way and see the tendencies of it and see what's really going on that has... I've changed my relationship with the audience, I think. I mean, not in how I work, not in how, not in, you know. So it's been, anyway, it's been remarkable.

It's fun to think of the show as like a version of NAMX manifesto, right? The ideas get out into the world and then what happens. Yeah. And just like watching. or thinking of something like, you know, the great moment where Luthin says to Dedra,

like the rebellion's not here anymore. It's flown away. Like it is bigger than anybody could possibly wrap their arms around and that's just awesome. I think because of that, and for many other reasons, but people are very sad to see and or end. It is simultaneously, I think,

acknowledged it's this precious, perfect thing. And also like, oh, God, will we really never get more? And so we would be remiss if we did not ask you about another thing that the fans are all writing us about and talking about a lot online, which is the idea of a spinoff. Our listeners are particularly captivated by the idea of a Vell and Klayah spin-off. This has been a big topic of conversation here at our show. You've been very clear in... A Belle and Clayah? Vell and Clayah hunt down imperial remnants across the galaxy. Yeah, it's... Like Nazi hunters. Yeah, there's a genuine

passion for this idea. You've been very clear in other interviews that you've given a lot of your life over the past decade to these characters and that this is it for now. So here is my best attempt to intercept you into one day returning. Which characters will you have the hardest time not writing for again? Like if this really is the end, who has the greatest grip on your mind and your soul and your heart where you can say right now this is it, but if you think about what it would be like to never return to them in their stories, it would hurt. Well, Partigas is dead.

What about the earlier party days? I mean, everyone loved writing for Anton Lesser. He was a very popular guy to write for because he just, he just, I mean, it's a silly answer, but it's true. I mean, EDI is just, I think, every time there was an EADC, and it was like, I'm taking that, I'm taking that, I'm taking that. I always wanted to do, and I really was dead. someone asked me on a rope line that,

what scene didn't you get to write that you wish, I said, I really wanted to write a scene where Edie went to Luthan's Gallery. That was a scene I really wanted to write. But I'm trying to, you got me, I'm trying to think, so Vell and, and. Oh, I can give you the pitch because it's quite a lot. Can I add one more element to it?

Yeah, go for it. Which is that Dejramiro, because she's been sort of framed for the leaking of the death. our plans once the rebellion wins is let out of prison and used as a sort of Hannibal Lecter-esque consultant on like how to track these people down but she's using it again this is one of our listeners pitch you don't need me no our listener came up with this like using it to wreak vengeance on her own a thousand shifts you don't need me you're on your way um I don't know man I mean uh I mean

seriously it's been it has been 10 years and I I mean it wasn't 10 years continues but I It was rogue, and then I had a lot of trouble getting a couple other projects off, and then this happened. So it's really been 10 years. I haven't done much else in there. And I'd really like to direct again. I've got a movie I'm trying to put together. And, I mean, 26 hours of Star Wars is, you know, I mean, that's a lot. It's a lot of Star Wars.

Yeah. So I'd say a hip idea. I'm sure Kathy'll hear about that. That's a good one. Yeah. Allow me to bring down the tone of the room entirely and let you know that, like, we have a very cherished theory about how Sinta dispatched TAY Colma

that we'd be more than happy to share with you, but I'm curious if you, the writers had a specific end in mind for him. Like, what did Sinta do after TAY got into The Speeder with her? Oh, I... We never... I mean, it never had to be articulated, so we never, uh, uh, it's not the kind of show where you spend a lot of time doing something you don't have to do to do because you have, you have homework all the time.

You have entire fields of ride to grow or whatever it is. Yeah, there's a lot of homework for everybody. So, um, uh, I mean, it's Fredo. He's Fredo. So she took him out in the lake and just, he's Fredo. So it's just, it's, it's, it's Lake Tahoe. She took him out on the lake and bang. I don't know.

I mean, it's, um, There are so many people who were like, some people were confused. Did she, I mean, we thought that was so obvious. Oh, yeah. Yeah, okay. Oh, no, no, it's very obvious. I'm not going to worry about the people that couldn't get that.

It's very obvious. Like, if Cinta's there for you, it's a row. It's trouble. It's a rat. I will just say to you that we were enamored of the idea that Cinta fastened her seatbelt and Taye didn't and she just flipped. Oh, just rolled it?

Yeah, flip the speeder, yeah. You know, it's a convertible for a reason. It seems to us. I don't think. Yeah, but that. I'm going to go against it because I don't think anybody ever saw him again. Oh. Well, how high did she drop him from?

How deep a ravine? I don't know. The Chandraillan, the Chandralin flats are notorious. Cliffs and crevices everywhere. Exactly. Okay, that is Joanna's single biggest passion point other than the Maya Pay Brigade, her genuine personal obsession. I do love the Maya Pay for name.

She does. I'm going to go to one of my personal passions. now, and it is, as previously mentioned, B-2. I just genuinely can't express without sounding like a complete and total lunatic. How much it meant to see him at the end? Like, I just was so glad that we got that. He's so happy. Zipping around playing with his friends.

I broke down in tears. I was just freely weeping to get to see him again and know that he was having fun. And then, of course, we pan to mix him the baby. and I'm just like, I'll never, I'll never be okay again. Like, this is shattering. Two questions about B. One, did you guys ever consider reuniting B and Cassie, and even if just for a quick moment and a quick farewell?

Because they never got to formally say goodbye to each other, which is very difficult, I think, for me and for anybody who has a pet at home and is thinking about B is their dog or their cat, which I think is how a lot of people think about B. No, he's a dog. He's a dog. I mean, I built it. I mean, I really had a lot. That was really early. I mean, I spent a lot of time on B. He's named after my son's dog. My son's dog is Bimo, is a corgi. So it was named after that. So it's very, I really worked hard on that with the, we had so much time in the beginning to, like, waste time doing that. So I really got deeply involved in that. He's the best. I, I'm sure that, I'm sure that I started, when I started sketching, when I started sketching season two, I'm sure if, if there had been, away probably on the table. I know I was fretting about leaving him behind. What's her name,

Talia? She stays with. It was really important to me when we did that. I went and really reinforced. There's a moment where Brasso really leans down and says, oh, she's smarter than me and better than me. And she has your charger and she knows all your friends. I really went in and laid it on thick in there because by that point, I must have been worried that we weren't going to get back there. But it was on my mind, but there was no, it just wasn't in the cards. You wouldn't have a scene just to do that in a show like this, just, you know, to stop in. And also, B2MO maybe wouldn't be so great for him on Yavin. He's happy where he is.

And if you went and visited, then you'd just be breaking his heart and reminding what he's missing again. I mean, dogs kind of, they kind of forget sometimes what they're missing. No, no. Doesn't look like he's worried. He's not fretting about Cassie. He's having a great. It's fun. He's literally fine.

This is what Joanna kept telling me because I was just like. In a farm of state. That's what Paris tell their kids when they put the dog down. I know. I was so upset and Joanna kept saying to me like, Talia, it will be okay. She is prepared to give Bea a good home. I'm on the other way, though. I feel like every second of her screen time in that episode.

It's about making sure you know B will be okay. Making sure that you know that Talia is good people. That's it. Not only did B not forget Cassian. Here's my next question. My head canon now is that B is basically co-parenting with Bix, raising this child. And his role is, you know, when we talk about what we pass down and the traditions that we share, he is the storyteller. That he is like weaning this child on tales of not just Cassian, but Marva, Brazo, Farrick.

like all of the people and the places that this this little baby didn't get to know. Boy, boy, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, there's a tea party. You know what? Tony, thank you for writing fan fiction with us. We really appreciate it. We appreciate that about you. Um, you mentioned, uh, budgetary restrictions. We were, you know, well, forever more in the K2SO episode that we never got.

Need it. Um, yeah, we, we're really missing that. But I don't. I, I, it was really good, but I have to be honest, I would, I would, it, the eight and nine would not have worked as well as they did. It was, it was, it wasn't, it wasn't, it was brilliant on its own and was a really good idea at the time, but, um, and I probably fought for it longer than I should have, but in the end, I really think we ended up in over the better situation. I really did, honestly. I mean, I, I, I, outside of the expansion of eight and nine, I'm curious, I'm always curious to hear showrunners talk about, like necessity being the mother of invention, like what a budgetary restraint puts on them.

So outside of your ability to expand the story into eight and nine, were there other moments where you had to get creative that you're particularly proud of the end results? Well, I mean, where does it work for you? You know, Aldani, again, it was Dan Gilroy. Danny got burned. And Aldani, Aldani was originally pre-COVID designed to be. It was about 10,000 people show up for that. You know, the Aldani's all come up there. It was 10,000 people.

So that meant that it's a huge festival and this huge chaotic sort of, you know, Glastonbury kind of crazy thing, which meant that the gang themselves could be different and how they came through and the and the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, we can't, we can't, we can't get them up there. I mean, our COVID budget, our COVID budget on season one was more than a cost. to make Michael Clayton. And, and, uh, so what happens? Oh my God. Tears and recriminations and what are we going to do and holy shit.

And then you go, oh my God, you know what? It's the Lakota Sue at the end of the line. It's the, it's the dead end. It's really actually much more bitter and horrible. And it's like,

then you write the speech for Bejas where he's like, oh, we like, they start off with like 500, 600, $600,000. And then they, they just get drunk on the way up.

We give them booze and we do all this stuff. And they, dwindle out and they're just the dead enders and it just becomes more sad and you end up with something far more effective than you had ever anticipated that those kinds of things there's there's a there's many of them um and uh and some of them are practical i mean i think the hospital set in episode 10 is epic i it's i think it's one of the best sets i've ever seen in my life it it it uh it the sight lines of it the geography of the hospital, that horseshoe thing with the glass, and you always, you know exactly where you are. It's just absolutely perfect. It's a genius sob. We were on fumes. That was like,

you can have a hallway and a turn and a thing. That's all one unit that Luke is turning around. And the design of it was a problem solved to let us use it for every floor and multiple places. So it's really a very small piece of set. It's not a very, it was, it was a huge, a huge anxiety. And it ends up being just perfect. Stunning, yeah. We loved the, in the horseshoe design, the parallel to Narcina and the ability to like look across to a glass window.

And just the way that like information registers or travels when you're in certain spaces is just like in a completely different context, fascinating to think about. It just means when the directors and the DPs show up on the scout, you know, to try to line up what their shots are going to be and what they're going to do, they almost inevitably are led to great shots. There's like, it's not a set that you have to go fight against. The set is just like dying for like, oh my God, look at the shots that are in there, that she's walking and you see them coming and it's just, it's, man, it's,

that is some really, really smart production design on up, on a, on a, on a, on a threadbare budget at that point. Should that be the spinoff, the granny? the granny claia stole and rolled around Granny scatting yeah she was exceptional yeah we love it

what she up to you now that was on the page I never did I see that I think that's during the strike that probably happened I was like really okay I love the moment

where they're on the elevator now is an improv thing that they do Oh yeah Star Wars music you know I fought for that that I fought for that there were people who did not want I thought that was great

it was genuinely incredible we loved it Did you catch the name of the, did you translate the Arobesh on the name of the hospital? I think we did at the time. Yeah. Well, what was it? What was it? I don't know her name, but she's a famous, Tom Bissell said, can I name it the Miasone?

What is it? I can't remember where her name is, but translate the orabesh, and it's, there's an Easter egg. Love it. Love it. Love it. Love it. Have a question about the lessons that other people can take from, from Andor, the lessons for people who are making their own.

Star Wars show or really any show inside of like a larger IP universe. Sometimes worry that people might, that there might be a risk of people taking the wrong lesson from Andor, which is to say that they might say, I have to make Andor, right? I have to try to make Andor because look how it resonated. Look how it animated the fandom. When, of course, one of the many reasons, but one of the reasons that Andor worked is because it was so specifically and utterly itself, right? There was a mission and a perspective and a purpose and a point of view. And the fact that Andor was its own thing is what allowed it

to reach people. So what is your advice for other people who might be making Star Wars in the future or again any show where you're playing inside of an existing universe with a lot of prior canon and future canon certainly as well for how to like find that balance of enriching, making something that does engage with and enrich this larger storytelling tapestry that people have such a deep connection to, while also finding a way to make the thing that is utterly your own. Yeah, but that's, I mean, bring your game. I wholeheartedly agree. It's driven us crazy on the show. Every time people, the clickbait that people try to draw controversy between us and the other shows.

And it's just, it just drives us nuts. When we see it, we're like, what is? is this? By the same token, it's it would be really wrong to try to come in and I think to try to reproduce slavishly reproduce.

I think there might be some grammar that you could take to the show that you guys were talking about. I don't think that show wants to be very funny maybe and it's not, maybe it has a, it might have a different visual grammar. But there has to be a hook. There has to be a reason that you want to bring your game

there. And then within that, we never, we never winked. Like, maybe that's the thing that kept me most out of, maybe that's the thing that disoriented me the most from some traditional Star Wars is the, you know, the Buck Rogers, the wink, the thing that was really, that, I don't know how to do that. That's not, that doesn't, that doesn't come out of my, my, my mouth. really well. And what am I saying? Yeah, I mean, let your freak flag fly and do what you do best. And don't kid it, though. You got to, I think that's the one thing. You can't, you got to, it has to be a, well, maybe it doesn't. I don't know. I don't want to give anybody advice on it. I want them to do something that really surprises me. And also, I think people should pick situations. And I mean,

there's how many billions of beings in that galaxy? How many corners of it have been on? unexplored. They are doing a lot of, there's some things that they're building that are really unusual, I think. And I think that lesson's being taken to heart. Yeah, we love that. We talk a lot about that. The galaxy is so big. Let's explore. Let's leave the Skywalkers for a second. Go to the dry cleaner. Yeah, yeah. That sounds great with Clea and Vell because they have a lot of outfits to clean. Go back to the travel agency. The travel agency. It's a great set. Oh, yeah. That couple there, you know, I got friends everywhere. Yes, they had something interesting going in the backroom for sure, which, you know, does bring us to our next topic. You said, let your freak

flag fly, and we would like to go to Andor after dark for just one moment here if you'll indulge us. All right. You know, we'd like to ask you something very deep and profound about Cyril Karn, our shared favorite, a character we just genuinely, I mean, we've, you know, we did three to four hour pods on Andor every week. We could not stop talking about Cyril. We're obsessed with him. We're fascinated by him. We were riveted by his arc. I'm not going to ask you about any of that. here's what we're going to ask you instead. In season one, Cyril told his mother that he knew she had been into his private box. Our question is, what was in the box?

Here's the second question. Did Enza and Cyril ever? Oh, Enz and Cyril? We've twill together, if you know what we mean. And then finally. That's interesting. That's interesting. I think, no.

I mean, I don't think she'd ever, I think she knows exactly who he is all the time. Oh, really? I think, I do think, however, that he, I mean, he's intrigued by all things, Gorman. I think Gorman has so many things that appeal to him, the order, the tidiness, the structure of it, the clothes, the precision of it. I think he's, I think he's, you could watch him trend native as it goes along. So I don't think he's, I think he has a crush on her a little bit. I do. I don't think anything has ever happened.

No, no. Well, you know, perhaps that's because he was so actively engaged in turning off the lights with Dejra. Her boyfriend, her boyfriend's pretty solid, too. Yeah, yeah. It's true. I mean. Stiff competition. I would say so.

Did Cyril and Dejra have a safe word? And if so, what was it? Oh, my God. Oh, I. You know what? There's a time of day where I have a beautifully quick answer for that. What is their same word? Oh, man.

Partigas. Good. I think it should be. Leo? Leo. Leo? Leo? Leo?

I can't save you, Leo. Calibrate your enthusiasm. Boy, Chris really packed that one out. That was a really smart get on this point. Yeah, yeah. That line is really big long. That's the only spinoff Chris wants is the Krennick. Part of Gives.

The Leo Orson early days. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Last one at least, I think this is the end of our time, and I just want to ask you a really, really important question, which is, did anyone survive the Maya Pai Brigade, and are they okay, and are they part of the rebellion, or are they all toast in the jungle there? I like to think that they pulled it together a little bit.

And, yeah. I love those dummies. I'm a big fan of them, so, you know. That's my son and my niece. He's his husband. And they, no, they,

yeah, I think, I think there's, I think there's some survivors. It's actually funny because we really, you know, who can you get back to come back to, you know,

should I bring, you know, should I bring Naya back to Yavin or bring somebody else back to Yavin? But it started, once we put Melshi back in there, once I knew that was happening, it started to feel like you were just going to be a little bit.

It was going to get a little. The gangzel here sort of thing. It was going to get a little cute. Yeah. But I think, I think, yes, there's four or five people that survived the Maya Pay Brigade.

Yeah, let's say that. I love it. I love it. Pick your favorite four. Thank you. Thank you so much, Tony. Wow, this has really been cool. This has been a whole day of unexpected wild interviews.

All right, this is really good. Thank you, Tony. We appreciate it. All right. Man, Viva la Cousa. Thank you. Thank you. Bye, bye.

Joe? As far as I'm concerned, it's canon that Sinta ruled the car and Tay. never seen again at the bottom of a Shendrilan ravine. Also, as far as I'm concerned, you have an official green light to begin working on the Valkla. So what a productive chat. Could the bad baby who emailed us, you know, call me, call my people. It sounds like Kathy will hear of this. So we look forward to that. Great stuff. That was such a blast. I'm not ready to stop talking about Andor, but worst case, I'll see you next May for our new annual tradition. Andor rewatch.

Sounds great. I can't wait. I can't fucking wait. All right. It's time for thank you. Thank you to Tony Kilroy for joining us today and also for making Andor. And everyone at Lucasfilm for making sure all of that came off without a hitch. Really appreciate you guys.

And thank you to our crew here. We have with us today. Carlos Chiroboga. John Richter Arjuna Ramga Pell Jomi Adaneron The crew I just want to say

The podcast is over You're probably gone at this point But I just need you to know That there was a sort of like a last minute Tech scramble right before the Tony Gilroy interview And I saw John Richter running down the halls of Spotify Like Someone transporting the plans to the Death Star

Running from Darth Vader at the end of Rogue One It was a phenomenal feat And he made it all work So thank you to John Thank you to everyone podcast are built on hope. Pay off your home, travel for life, drive a Ferrari. In celebration of the world premiere of the Monopoly

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