House of R - Best Sci-Fi Fantasy Books With Anthony Jeselnik | House of Reads

Episode Date: October 1, 2026

It’s finally time for House of Reads! Jo discusses the best books she’s read this year, the series that she’s into, her must-read authors, and more! Plus, Anthony Jeselnik joins the pod to give some sci-fi/fantasy book recommendations! (00:00) Intro(02:46) Best Books Jo’s Read This Year(10:15) A Series Affair(17:12) Must-Read Authors(32:09) Most Recommended(44:01) House of R Classics(46:35) Origin Stories(52:17) Sci-fi/fantasy book recommendations with Anthony Jeselnik Jo’s Book Recommendations:- 'Everlasting' by Alix Harrow- 'Raven’s Scholar' by Antonia Hodgson- 'Dead Beat' by Leigh Bardugo- 'The Irresistible Urge to Fall for Your Enemy' by Brigitte Knightley- 'The Exquisite Torment of Loving Your Enemy' by Brigitte Knightley- 'A Court of Splintered Harmony' by Sarah J. Maas- 'Threshing Day' by Rebecca Yarros- 'Ana and Din Mysteries' Series by Robert Jackson Bennett- 'The Hierarchy' Series by James Islington- 'Scion' by James Islington- 'The Gates of Midnight' by Helene Wrecker- 'Blacktongue' Series by Christopher Buehlman- 'Piranesi' by Susanna Clarke- 'Simon Snow' Series by Rainbow Rowell- 'Swordheart' by T. Kingfisher- 'Katabasis' by R. F. Kuang- 'The Familiar' by Leigh Bardugo- 'Victorious' by V. E. Schwab- 'Bury Our Bones in the Midnight Soil' by V. E. Schwab- 'Starling House' by Alix Harrow- 'Slade House' by David Mitchell Listener Recommendations:- 'Red Rising' by Pierce Brown- 'Dungeon Crawler Carl' by Matt Dinniman- 'Gideon the Ninth' by Tamsyn Muir- 'Canon' by Paige Lewis- 'Mistborn' Series by Brandon Sanderson- 'This Kingdom Will Not Kill Me' by Robin Hobb- 'Blood Over Bright Haven' by M. L. Wang- 'Realm of the Elderlings' Series by Robin Hobb- 'The Long Wat to a Small Angry Planet' by Becky Chambers- 'Exit Party' by Emily St. John Mandel- 'Into the Blue' by Emma Brodie- 'Broken Earth' Series by N.K. Jemisin- 'The Adventures of Amina al-Sirafi' by S. A. Chakraborty- 'The Incandescent' by Emily Tesh House of R Classics:- 'The House in the Cerulean Sea' by TJ Klune- 'Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow' by Gabrielle Zevin- 'The Song of Achilles' by Madeline Miller- 'Circe' by Madeline Miller- 'All the Birds in the Sky; by Charlie Jane Anders Origin Stories:- 'Hero and the Crown' by Robin McKinley- 'Night Watch' by Sir Terry Pratchett- 'The Neverending Story' by Michael Ende- 'The Dragon Lance Chronicles' by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman- 'Graceling' by Kristin Cashore Host: Joanna RobinsonGuest: Anthony JeselnikProducer: Carlos ChiribogaStudio Production: Jacob CornettSocial: Jomi AdeniranAdditional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopowell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome back to House of R. I'm Dwayna Robinson, and it's kind of just me here today with a bunch of books. This is the long promised House of Reads episode where I'm going to be talking about a lot of books that I love that I want to recommend. And we got a lot of listener recommendations as well. So we're going to go through these piles of books that I have in front of me if you're watching this. Quick programming reminders just in general. Next week, we only have one pod. Malley will be here, of course, and we'll be talking about WandaVision. doing a Wanda Vision rewatch in advance of vision quest. So that's something we're really excited about. You can send us emails about WandaVision or books I forgot to mention. You can send those to Hobbits and Dragons at Jeml.com as always.

Follow us on social at House of Our Pod. Follow the pod wherever you get your pods, et cetera, et cetera. I'll be talking about these books. We also have a guest on the pod this week. I'm really excited. Anthony Jesselnik, who has just launched a new Ringer podcast called Jesselnick, book club. He's been doing the Juselnik Book Club for a while, but he just launched the podcast. So we will have a section at the end of this pod where Anthony and I talk about some of his

sci-fi fantasy recommendations. And what's really cool about that, actually, is that he and I have similar but somewhat different reading tastes. And so a lot of his recommendations were ones that I had either heard of and not gotten to or maybe hadn't even heard of at all. So I think he's got a lot of sort of out-of-the-box recommendations that nonetheless fall under. the bucket of sci-fi, fantasy, genre storytelling. So it's really exciting to have a different voice on the pod to make some recommendations of books that you might not have heard of. So that is the plan today.

We've got a couple different categories. And then I'm just going to go through the books here and recommend them to you and stare down the camera while I do that if you're watching this at home. If you want to know about the books that we're recommending, we will have a list of all of them in our show notes. Shout out to Carlos Sheriboggan. for his tireless work on this podcast. So we will have a list of at least the books that I am sort of recommending and talking about at length. They will be in the show notes. You can get those

on Spotify and on YouTube. If you're just listening to this, I will be just talking about books so you can always listen to this. But there is a visual component if you're watching this as well at home. I've never done a talk at a camera for a really long time podcast. So we're just going to go on this journey together surrounded by our friends, the books. Now more than ever, quality matters, but so does price. At Marshalls, you don't have to choose.

You can get the good stuff for less, the stuff that lasts, because there's no point in tightening your belt if it's just going to break when you do. Get the good stuff in store at Marshalls today. Mr. President, my company tore me of the explosion on our rig. On October 2nd,

causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all heat the blame on me. Tom Cruise is. Digger got us into this mess And Digger's gonna dig us out From the director of Birdman and the Revenant What would happen if I stopped doing? You stormed, you freeze to death, that's what?

With great power Comes great deniability. I'm not the earth nanny. Digger, see the trailer online. Only in the years October 2nd. We're going to start off on a high note with what I'm calling the best books I've read this year and I'm going to start with a slight cheat.

that's because this book The Everlasting by Alex Harrow, I did technically read at the end of last year. It came out October 2025. But it just won the Hugo Award for Best Novel. So I thought that I should talk about it. We've talked about it a little bit on the pod before. Mallory's read it as well. She really, really loved it. But The Everlasting is a complicated time travel story about a star-crossed mystery of,

a reedy professor and then a badass lady knight sort of in the vein of Brand of Tarth. And basically it's set in an alternate reality where he has read of her legend. He has studied it. He is a historian. He has studied her legend. And then he goes back in time and meets her. And then there's just this back and forth mystery as they loop sort of Groundhogs Day style through this epic to figure out exactly what happened in the past. And it is just incredibly complicated, but actually emotionally perfect.

And I just loved this book. And we're going to talk about Alex Harrow again in another category. But Everlasting, Alex Harrow. The Raven Scholar, which came out last year, came out 2025, but I read it this year. The Raven Scholar by Antonia Hodgson is next on my list. I don't have a copy to show the camera because I lent it to a friend. and that's the best reason to not have a copy of the book. But The Raven Scholar, which was highly recommended to me, I read it in, I don't know, 48 hours.

It's a huge book. I read it in 48 hours because I couldn't stop reading it. It is incredible. The premise is, and the second book, The Fox and Winter, is coming out October next year. So get in now, and then we can all talk about the Fox and Winter next year when it comes out. But here's the premise of the Raven Scholar. seven contenders compete in legitimate fashion for a throne. Along the way one of them is murdered.

Our protagonist must find out who and see Justice done, but she has also been named the replacement seventh contender. So it's a competition of throne, sort of like Hunger Games-E style, Last Man Standing gets the throne kind of competition. The world building's incredible. The various houses that compete are just really, really fun. I was just really emotionally pulled in and really dazzled by the world building in that one.

So the Raven Scholar, I cannot recommend enough. And then this one just came out, this next one, Dead Beat by Lee Bardugo. I got it at Romans. Shout out, Romans, my new favorite Los Angeles bookstore. But Deadbeat by Lee Bardugo, which I also read in about a 48-hour, maybe 36-hour span, is the third in the Ninth House trilogy. So I've talked about the Ninth House trilogy before. Deadbeat was on my hype meter that we did last month. Or in August, rather.

Yeah. But it's set in a magical Yale. And the premise of this series is like, what if the Definci Code or National Treasure were actually smart? Sorry to Dan Brown, not sorry. But so basically at Yale, you might know. At Yale, there are these actual secret societies. you might have heard of skull and bones or scroll and key or St. Elmo, like, these are actual secret societies that exist at Yale. And what Libar Dugo did is she took these secret societies and

she wondered, what if all of these rich, powerful families at Yale who belong to these secret societies, what if they were doing magical rituals to make sure that they stayed as wealthy and powerful as possible? So that's sort of the premise of this magical Yale. And what she does, and it's so cool, is she takes all of these actual buildings and inscriptions and statues and that are all around the campus and all around New Haven and constructs this giant mythology around them. So she takes actual places and actual content of Yale's history and makes it into this wide-ranging mythological story. The protagonist of this series is Alex Stern, who is a girl who is too poor and too bad at school to ever get into Yale. But Yale wants her because they want her there because she has a special power, which she can see ghosts, among other things. And so she's brought into Yale on a scholarship basically to be used for her powers.

And it's a found family story. There's a lot of yearning. There's a trip to hell in the second book, which is called Hell Bent. And this is the conclusion of the trilogy, and it was so, so good. Magical heists galore. This world is incredible. I'm sad to leave it. I'm sad it's over.

I'm hoping that she figures out a way to do more stories inside of this world. But Deadbeat, Lee Bardugo, so, so incredibly good. And then the last on sort of the best books I read this year is a super, super fun one, which is a duology by Bridget Knightley. And I listen to this on audio, so I don't have a thing. physical book to show you. But the two titles are the irresistible urge to fall for your enemy and the exquisite torment of loving your enemy. And these are, yes, based on Draminy, Drake and Hermione fan fiction. I'm just going to describe the plot to you. A very wealthy blonde assassin,

guess who, who is dying from the cost of using his lethal gift and a curly-haired no-it-all healer, guess who, who needs his money to cure children, basically, to do good in the world. So he basically, like, bribes her, blackmails her into helping him. And they go on a series of adventures in order to try to cure him. He's dying from basically overuse of his magic. And so when I talk about, on other pods, Mallory and I talk about the cost of using magic, this is an example of a story where that has done really, really well of, like, what is the cost of all of these magical gifts? There are so many magically gifted people in these stories and sometimes the cost is sort of psychological, sometimes it's emotional. In this case,

it's lethal and physical. It's a, it's a very, these books are very light and frothy, a sort of absurd Terry Pratchett, very like the language is is very sophisticated and advanced and very British sounding. But the situations are kind of absurd and silly. The, it's dual narration. So the way in which these characters are completely unaware of their own emotions is really, really fun. And it's a little more mature than you might guess based on that premise. That sounds YA. It is kind of YA. But I will say in the second book, content warning for some spice.

So just so you know, this is an excellent, excellent audiobook experience. I really, really recommend it. So that's the irisist will urge to fall for your enemy slash the exquisite torment of loving your enemy by Bridget Knightley. it's called the dearly beloved duology. So those are my like books of the year that I've read so far. But I have a ton to get to because you guys gave me incredible recommendations. And I will get to those in a minute. My next section that I want to talk to you about, I'm calling a series affair.

And these are series that I'm in the middle of where new books are coming out. I am like heavily anticipating them. If a new installment comes out, I am getting a new installment. out, I am getting it without question. So the first two are sort of obvious. And it's the fourth wing, the Imperian saga, the fourth wing books and Akitar, Accord of Thorn and Roses, the Sarah J. Masks books. And I will say that these two series are not my favorites by far, but they're so popular and they're so fun to talk about, even if I'm frustrated by them, that I always want to stay on top of them. So there's a new Accord of Thorne and Rose's book, A Court of Splinted Harmony.

By Sarah J. Moss is the sixth Accord of Thorne and Rose's book. So that one's coming out in October. And then there's a fourth-wing sort of novella called Threshing Day. I generally think these books are painfully derivative and very badly written, but I think they're really fun to read, and they're really fun to talk about. So Threshing Day, a bunch of stories from the point of view of Kim, and characters from other books in the series talking about how they went and claimed their dragons in the first place and got into the academy, et cetera, et cetera.

So that is something that is on everyone's minds, but I would not say I'm like personally heavily invested in. I am personally heavily invested in the Anna and Dinn Mysteries by Robert Jackson Brown. The first book is called Tainted Cup, which I don't have a copy of because I lent it to a friend. Again, a great reason not to have a copy of. but I do have a drop of corruption here, which is the second book. These are just beautiful books to own, by the way. The third one, a trade of blood, is either coming on or is just out, and I haven't gotten to yet.

But the Anna and Din Mysteries are called biopunk. Instead of steampunk, it's biopunk. It's these really cool. Basically, Anna and Din are sort of Holmes and Watson. She's an incredible detective. He's her man on the street. out there sort of gathering data for her. He has been genetically altered, so he has perfect recall of everything he's seen. So he goes out, gets all the clues, brings them back to her.

She's a very odd character, and she sort of figures out what's going on. But there are these, they're always investigating these murders that reveal a larger corruption inside of this world that they live in. And there's all these really cool biological fungal, mossy, kelpie, sort of poisons and all of this going on. So it's a really, really cool world. A really, really great protagonist in Dinn, who's just like really charming and a great creation in Anna. So all of these books, The Tainted Cup was my favorite. A Drop of Corruption was really good. The second one, but I've heard a trade of blood. The third one is a lot of people think it's the best. I haven't read it yet, but I'm really, really excited with it. So these are also a really good audio

experience, but these books are beautiful, so I like to own them as well. So that is my recommendation. Anna and Dead Mysteries. The hierarchy epic. We have talked about this. Mallory and I have talked about this. The Will of the Many and the Strength of the Few. This is James Islington. So he's in the middle of this series.

This is the second book. I could not find my copy of Will of the Money. So I just have the Strength of the Few here. The Hierarchy Book 2. This is like a Roman-inspired fantasy world, which is a little unusual and quite fun. And it's a sort of a pyramid society where if you're at the top of the sort of class and wealth of this society, you get the strength and the power of all the

people below you. It's sort of stratified that way and they suck the power and the and the will of the people below them. So it's definitely sort of this class-based power system. But in the first book, our main character is sent to an academy. We love a magical academy, right? An academy we need to find answers to solve a murder, to search for an ancient weapon, and to uncover secrets that might tear the Republic apart. Mystery, action, suspense. I didn't think the second book was quite as good as the first book, but it was still way better than most books I read, and I'm really excited for the next one in the series. So, a huge fan. This author, James Islington, has a new book, Cyan, which is being described as John Wick. John Wick meets Blade Runner,

so I haven't read Ceyon, but that one is his latest book. But I'm in the middle of this series, and when the new books comes out, I will eagerly grab it up. So I just wanted to, I think a lot of people have read it based on the fact that Mallory and I have talked about it before. And Will, the many is just one of the best fantasy books come out in recent years. So that is that series. And then the Gates of Midnight, which is the third in the Golem and the Jeannie series by Helene Wecker. Rucker, sorry, Helene Wrecker. The golem and the genie is, the protagonists are a golem, which is a creature made of clay named Hava, and Amad, who is a who is a gin, a genie, a creature of fire.

And it's set, the first book is set in 1890, New York. And they're basically sort of these two magical creatures, a golem and a genie, who come to America and have to hide their, fantastical natures and try to blend in in this sort of immigrant experience of America. The second book is set sort of pre-World War I. And then the third book, The Gates of Midnight, which just came out, is set in 1930s Chicago. So we've got Yiddish folklore, Middle Eastern folklore, really, really meticulously researched historical detail, incredibly well written. So if you want sort of something that feels like historical fiction with a fantastical element to it, That's what this series is, and the Gates of Midnight is the third and, I believe, final installment in this series.

And then I don't have a copy here because this is another one that I've just listened to, but the Black Tongue series by Christopher Buellman. The Black Tongue Thief is the first one. The Daughter's War was sort of a prequel-ish background character book. And then Thrice Bound Fool is coming out October 13th. So I haven't read that one yet. But I really love the Black Tongue Thief, and I liked the Daughters War, Christopher Buellman. They're just, these books are really fun. Don't look for a lot of depth of character or emotion, I would say. But if you want a sort of really fun adventuring book that you have a great time with, I would really, really recommend the Blockton series. So those are some series that I'm in the middle of and, you know, eagerly anticipating the next installment or final installment. The next section I wanted to do here is called Must Read Authors.

And these are just authors where if they have a new book out, I'm reading it. End of story. That's it. It's pretty easy. I want to start with, let's start with Susanna Clark. Susanna Clark, who most people know from Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell, she wrote this, The Ladies of Grace Adieu. But the book I want to talk about is called Pyreneesie. and this is an incredible book.

It's not a new, new book, but I just wanted to mention that it's the basis for two really exciting upcoming adaptations. Lika, the animation studio behind Wildwood and Coobo and the Two Strings, and Coraline and Box Trolls. You guys know that I love Lika, the stop motion animation studio.

They're somehow making a movie out of this, and I actually, I'll describe the premise to you in a second, and I don't know how they're going to do that. But that is what is happening, and I cannot believe it in. I really want you to read this book so you can sit in astonishment with me about it. I'm going to describe the premise now, and then I'm going to tell you about the other thing that's coming up based on this. So it's, this book is told from the point of view a very like befuddled, bewildered narrator who lives in what he considers to be a mansion,

but it's this sort of infinite room's house. There are these statues and pillars and columns and all this sort of stuff. And it's flooded. The tide comes in and out. The tide can kill you. You're with the narrator. You have no idea where he is. And he has no idea where he is. And his memory is all foggy. And so you figure out alongside him sort of what happened, what this place is, how he got here, what's going on. It is very dreamlike in that way. It's very surreal. It's very confusing. But then you hang with it and then it sort of all snaps into focus. It's an incredible reading experience. So Lika's making a stop motion animation film about this, which is going to be beautiful. Like just. imagining the water and stop motion animation is really exciting. But maybe even more exciting, possibly, is the Royal Shakespeare Company is doing an immersive theatrical experience, Stratford-upon-Avon next summer, next summer, summer 27, where you can basically be in the world and you are experiencing it along with the narrator. So sort of try to replicate the experience

of reading the book inside of a live theater experience. Royal Shakespeare Company, invite me. I want to come, it looks incredible and is just sort of, this is one of those books where you're like, this is completely unadaptable. And both a stop motion animation studio and the Royal Shakespeare Company have said, bet we're going to try to adapt it. So I'm really excited to see how that turns out. Next on, if they publish it, I'm reading it, is Rainbow Rowell. And a lot of Rainbow Rowell's books are not, I would not call them genre, sci-fi fantasy. books. So some of her favorites, I won't. So my favorites of hers I'm not going to be talking about. But I did want to mention the Simon Snow series. The first ones carry on.

Second one's wayward sun. And anyway, the wind blows. But the Simon So's series, this is the premise. And this is, I think this is the last time I'm going to mention Harry Potter, but I'm going to mention Harry Potter again, because this book series is clearly quite loosely a reinterpretation of Harry Potter. And, And what if Simon Snow, the chosen one, was maybe not so chosen? And what if his roommate, who's definitely not Draco Malfoy, because he has brown hair and is a vampire, was a posh snobby guy? And what if the magic in this universe was based on common phrases that people say? This is such a cool idea for a magical system inside of these books.

They're really, really good books. They're really fun. this idea that like carry on, you know, keep calm and carry on the sort of very British phrase, that's a magical spell. So these common phrases that people speak are magical spells. And the more common the phrases, the more powerful the magic is. And what's really fun about that idea is that in the second book, they do a cross-country trip in the U.S. And they have to learn, you know, these British kids on this cross-country trip. and they basically have to learn all new magical spells

because American phrases are different than British phrases. So, and then there are dead zones where there are, if there aren't people around, you can't use magic because you're drawing on the power of this sort of like collectively, we all agree these phrases mean something. It's a really cool idea. She's an incredible, fun, emotional writer. These are incredibly emotional stories. They sound like YA, they kind of are, but I will give a spicy content warning for the third.

I think it's the third book. But these books are incredible. I really, really love them, the Simon Snow books. And they're very, very gay. So if you're like, hey, man, I'm kind of mad about Harry Potter. I would like to be in this world but make it gayer. That's what these books are. Let's see.

What is next? T. Kingfisher. So T. King, Kingfisher is another author who I will always read. And Sword Heart, Daggerbound is a new one that's out this year. But Sword Heart is the one I want to talk about, is I believe I've recommended it on the podcast before. And if you're watching, I got this at the gallery bookshop of Mendocino. Shout out the gallery bookshop in Mendocino.

One of my favorite. They have a cat. It's one of the best bookshops in the world. But Swordheart is about a knight who is trapped in a sword. He's trapped inside a sword. And this sort of loquacious woman who acquires the sword. And sort of like chaos and romance ensues. These are all very like romantic books.

You know, a sorceress comes to call nine goblins. She's just like really viking in that. Again, I'll cite Terry Pratchett, one of my favorite authors. Like, Terry Pratchett, fairy tale reimagining space. And every one of her books are delightful. And I'm a huge fan. But if I were to recommend one, I would say Swordheart. But anytime I see a T. Kingfisher book, I'm going to buy it. next friend of the pod RF Kwong Rebecca Kwong Babel Babel which came out was like this huge hit on TikTok during the pandemic I don't think I need to sell that one It's sold a million copies

Catapacus Mal and I have talked about This is similar to Lebeardugo This is a let's go to hell book and The Back says it's a hell of a story Very cute British edition. I'm going to do this

for the video people. It's got these really cool edges, sprayed edges and end papers and I just think it's an incredibly beautiful copy of Catavis. But this story, which I know Mal and I have talked about, but it's like

what if two grad students, sort of rival friends, rival grad students, go to hell to try to find their advisor who has died via magic ritual gone wrong. been sent to hell. So they go to hell to try to get them back because they need a letter of recommendation, essentially. That's kind of the premise. It's a little bit more complicated

than that. Here's a couple things I will say. One, it's a really cool exploration of different mythological and cultural interpretations of what the underworld is. So the underworld that they go to is basically occupied by, you know, spirits and figures and scenarios and rivers and landmarks from all different sort of cultural cultures and ideas of the underworld. So that's a really, really cool mashup kind of idea. And then there's a section, if you talk to anyone who's read Catapis, there's a section, I don't know, two-thirds of the way through, where Arf Kwong, who was in academia. And this takes place magical Oxford and then hell underneath magical Oxford. but basically talks about clearly very personally what it means to be like a woman in academia

or a woman in any male-driven field and sort of tells her story of her relationship with her advisor. And it is like a jaw dropping, mic dropping, incredible section inside of this like very, you're reading this book and you're like, this is like a pretty cool, fun fantasy book. And then you get to that section and you just, every person I know who's read that section is like, dear God, oh my God. So it just takes it to another level. She has a new book out this year called Taipei Story, which is not sci-fi fantasy, I believe. I haven't read it yet, but I absolutely will because if she wrote it, I will read it. So that is Arfquang. Lee Bardugo, I already mentioned

Lee Bardugo, Deadbeat, I mentioned in my best books of the year section, but I just want to say Lee Bardugo definitely counts as one of those authors. She wrote Shadow and Bone, Six of crows, the familiar, not my favorite of her books, but the familiar, which is a vampire, historical fiction book, is very cool. Any of her books are very cool. So if Lee Bardugo writes a book, I'm going to read it. She is a must read for me always. Also on the must read, always list is V.E. Schwab, Victoria Schwab.

I have several of her books here. Fragile Threads of Power. This is her latest. I actually don't think it's out yet, but I have an advanced reader of it. Victoria, which is the third in her villains trilogy, and it's, this is a long awaited. I had the chance to talk to her at San Diego Comic-Con, a really cool event. And she just talked about how these books kind of sit and wait in her brain and then sort of let her know when they're ready to be written. So this is the third in the villains trilogy, and people have been waiting a long time for this one.

So want to shout out that one. But my favorite B.I. Schwab, Victoria Schwab book, is Barry Air Bones, Midnight Soil, which I know I've talked about before. Toxic lesbian vampires. This story spans from, I believe, it's 1521 to present day. It's three women, and their stories are entangled. And I just want to read you a little copy from the book because it's so good. three young women, their bodies planted in the same soil, their stories tangling like roots. One grows high, one grows deep, and one grows wild. All of them grow teeth. So this is like what happens when women discover they're not prey, they're predators? Very, very good.

These women are allowed to be horrible, which I kind of love. But also people you're drawn to and rooting for. So barrier bones in the midnight soil. incredible, incredible book. Secret Life Valley LaRue, also by V. E. Schwab, incredible book. And then I just want to once again show off a really cool edition of a book. This is a barrier bones on the midnight soil, a special edition with sprayed edges and a slipcase. And I just think it's one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen. So I just want to show it off for people on camera who are watching this. Almost done with the must-read authors. Alex Harrow, I already

mentioned everlasting, but I will just say, Alex Harrow writes a book. I'm going to read it. And as we head into October, the best month of the year, because it's my birthday, starts with my birthday, ends with Halloween. I thought I would plug in this section to Haunted House books. So again, any Alex Harrow book I will read. But I wanted to plug Starling House, which is not her latest, but it's set in it. It's like a Southern Gothic story. And it's set in a depressed coal mining town. And there's this ramshackle house that the Starling family owned. And our main character goes to work there and is sort of entrancedified by the guy who, the last sion of the family who lives there in this very ramshackle house. This house is hella haunted. So it's a haunted house mystery. And one thing that's really cool about it is his ancestor, another member of the Starling family, wrote a,

a children's book called Underland, Underland. And so it's one of those stories that I love where there's a famous, there's a book that exists and is it fiction or was it actually based on real events that happen? And what is the truth and the mythology behind this very famous children's story? What is the truth of this haunted house, Starling House? I love, I love a haunted house. I love a house that wants to devour you. And that is what Starling House is.

That brings me to my last must-read author, which is David Mitchell. David Mitchell, people might know best from Cloud Atlas, which was turned into a movie I love, but is not super well received, but a spotty little special movie. Cloud Atlas is, I think, his most famous book. But I think the book I really want to plug is called Slade House because it's another haunted house, Does this House want to eat you sort of story? I'm going to read the book copy for you. Down the road from a working class British pub along the brick wall of a narrow alley,

if conditions are exactly right, you'll find the entrance to Slade House. A stranger will greet you by name and invite you inside it. First, you won't want to leave. Later, you'll find that you can't. Every nine years, the house's residence, an odd brother and sister, extend a unique invitation to someone who's different or lonely, a precocious teenager, a recently divorced policeman, a shy college student. But what really goes on inside Slade House? For those who find out, it's already too late.

It's set over several decades. So every nine years, another person gets drawn into Slade House and the story of sort of what happens to them from there. So this is a really, really fun, like quick little book, a really fun spooky Halloween book. And it's basically a spin-off of The Bone Clocks, which is probably my favorite, like, big David Mitchell book. And it's about immortals and over, like, a long generational yarn told over a long period of time. But I love, I love stories where, you know, whether or not they're vampires, they're not vampires in this case. But, like, where immortals are toying with mortals over a long period of time. That's a really, really fun premise always.

So David Mitchell in general, but for Halloween, maybe specifically Slade House. And those are my must-read authors. We're going to pause for a second and shuffle some of these books. Okay, we're back with a quick bookpile reshuffle. This next section I'm calling Most Recommended. These are the books that were most recommended. We got a ton of emails from listeners, Hobbits and Dragons and Gmail.com. I put a bunch of books on my to read, like got on my Libby app, put it a bunch of

requests for books. A lot of them I had heard of before, but this was like the push I needed to read them. Some of them I have read before, but I just wanted to shout out the listeners for recommending them. So let's just zoom through them really quickly. First one, far and away, the book that most people have been asking us to read is Red Rising or this whole series by Pierce Brown. I think a lot of people thought the next book was going to come out this year. I think it's called Red God. It's been delayed. But this series, Our listeners have been begging us to read, and I finally bought the book, I believe, at Romans here in Los Angeles. Here is the pitch.

Can I interest you in a story that starts with a hunger game-esque battle for survival in book one before morphing into the best Game of Thrones style storytelling and genre fiction since Game of Thrones, with the possible exception of Joe Abercrombie's first loss series. Some of my personal, most beloved characters in fiction, come from this series along with the villains that rival King Joffrey for absolutely. sheer hateability, not to mention incredible set pieces, well-written action, and solar system-wide palace intrigue with memorable dialogued boot. So Red Rising, Pierce Brown, I will be reading this. Thank you so much for all of our recommendations. I would say another one I don't have the copy in front of me. Dungeon Crawler Carl, which of course is a hugely popular series, like one of the most popular series is out right now. I'm not going to be talking about it here. You're going to want to tune in to Anthony Jessel Nick's podcast. He's going to be talking about it with Mallory. So Malory.

Valerie and Jocelynick are going to be talking about dungeon crawler Carl, the first book, at least. So your cries have been heard. They will be answered on a different podcast, but you'll want to tune in to listen to that. And then Jocelyn Nick and I will talk about it a little bit later on in this segment. Gideon the Ninth by Tamsin Muir. A ton of recommendations for that book. Lesbians, lesbian necromancers in space. This is a hugely popular series. I've never read it. I'm really intrigued. read by it. Here's the description. I think I pulled it off of Reddit.

If I had to try to summarize Gideon the Ninth, I would say it's about a group of rival necromancers and their warriors competing to see which pairings can rise above the others, all while unraveling the increasingly deadly mystery surrounding the contest, their houses, and their relationships. Some of said necromancers are lesbians. All of said necromancers are in space. This book is chock full of voice told from the perspective of a reverent meathead of a warrior named Gideon the 9th as she's forced to work alongside her longtime enemy slash rival

slash liege in the competition. This seems really, really cool. I'm really, really excited about this series. It has been recommended to me a ton. It is on my list. I requested it in my Libby app. That's how I like to listen to books. Shout out, support your local library.

Okay, Canon by Paige Lewis. I pulled this description from a blog spot. Those still exist called Fantasy Book Critic. Here's the premise. God is real, walks around in physical form, and behaves less like an all-knowing cosmic being and more like a powerful, slightly insecure manager trying to improve declining engagement metrics. He picks Yara, a non-binary teenager with OCD, and a long list of personal problems to kill Dominic, leader of the quote, bad guys. Meanwhile, Adrina, a prophet who feels she got passed over for the starring role, decides she might as well save the world herself. And then here's the part of canon that I think a lot of people really wanted. us at House of Art to read this aspect of it. From there, the book turns into a very strange quest filled with talking whales, shopping malls treated like mythic landscapes, and biblical references, also Homeric references, pop culture references, and references to references.

At times, it feels like Paige Lewis had every story ever written spread across a giant table and was happily grabbing pieces from all of them. So that is canon, Paige Lewis. I'm really excited to read that one. I haven't read it yet. Obviously, Brandon Sanderson. People want us to read Miss Bourne, they want us to read Stormlight, or anything Brandon Sanderson. We've talked about Brando Sando.

It feels like this insurmountable, just sheer tonnage of books from him. And I know I just need to start small. My nephew read the Miss Born trilogy and he really, really liked it. He compared it to Six of Crows by Lee Bardugo, which, you know, that's high praise for me. this the cosmere which is brandon sanderson's entire universe all of his books are not quite interconnected but all take place in this larger universe and i and i said years ago i did retress of the emerald sea which i really loved which is set in that universe but it has been so he sold it to apple and has like a lot of creative control over it so in terms of like upcoming adaptation from apple of this

entire like fantastical world with all of these interconnected stories that is something that is something thing that is really, really cool. And so I definitely will get to Brandon Sanderson eventually, I promise. Another heavily recommended book that I don't have in front of me that our listeners, a lot of listeners, want us to read this book, which is, This Kingdom Will Not Kill Me by Alona Andrews. And here's the description. What if you woke up in your favorite fantasy and had to figure out how to survive? Maggie is magically transported into the world of her favorite book series. She has no idea how she got there, but she can't die. And now she's trying to change the future of the kingdom. For a portal fantasy, shockingly little about her is trying to get home.

The romance elements, but I would say this is more solidly in fantasy. So what if you woke up inside of your favorite book? And you knew the rules of the universe, and you maybe knew more than the characters who lived there. This sounds like a really cool idea. I requested this on my Libby app. I'm really excited for this. Blood over Bright Haven, M.L. Wang, I have read this book. M. L. Wang is known for the Sword of Kagan series, but we got more recommendations for Blood of a Bright Haven. I liked this book a lot. I wouldn't say it's like my favorite book I've ever read for, you know, it's a little, like if you've read any books of this ilk, a sort of fantasy world, then you will see all of the twists and turns coming. It's like one of

those books where like the book thinks it's shocking you more than it's actually shocking you, but for what it's trying to say about society and, um, is pretty strong, and I really enjoyed reading it. So I would say, Blood of a Bright Haven, I really co-signed this recommendation. I don't think it's the best book you're ever going to read, but I think you're going to enjoy it. Realm of the Elderlings, this is a huge, huge series. This copy came from my pal Bronwyn, who lent it to me. Robin Hobb is an author that George R. Martin loves and admires.

There's a blur from George R. Martin on here, but there's a lot of thronesy elements in this one. Like, I would say specifically this one, where the main character is a royal bastard who's training to be an assassin. So like a very John Snow-esque main character. Animal bonds are really important. Connections with dragons are really important. This whole series is 16 books, five interconnected series. But this first one is just a trilogy.

So I'm going to start small, chip away and see how far I get. But Assassin's Apprentice is where I'm starting. Thank you to Bronman for. lending this to me. I'm really excited about it. The long way to a small angry planet, Becky Chambers, this is like extremely cozy sci-fi. Found family on a spaceship, fun, funny, Dr. Who-esque, like very, very light and frothy. And if you want something that just feels like quite cozy, but is sci-fi, I read this book I really liked it. We got a lot of recommendations about it. So the long way to a small angry planet. Winnow the Hugo Award for Best Series. It ain't

bad. But sometimes you just want something kind of cozy and unchallenging. And I would say that's what this is. A couple other books that I don't have in front of me. Exit Party, Emily St. John Mandel. A lot of people wrote in about that. Jesselnik, we'll talk about it. We'll talk about Emily St. John Mandel, who wrote Station 11. We'll talk about that a lot in the Jesselnik section. Into the Blue by Emma Brody. I'm currently listening to this. This one's a little stretch in terms of connecting it to sci-fi fantasy, but it's basically more connected to fandom. Our main character is a fan fiction writer. She's obsessed with an invented sci-fi show that is like improv comedy sci-fi.

And so it sort of explores the interaction of fandom and emotional growth. It takes place over less than about 20 years, thereabouts. And I'm really enjoying it. But I would definitely call it sci-fi fantasy adjacent. I mean, this is a hugely popular book. It's like one of Reese Wetherspoons. book club picks and stuff like that. I had been wanting to read it. We got a lot of recommendations for it. So I finally picked it up and started. Our listeners recommended the Broken Earth trilogy,

fifth season, Obelisk Gate, Stone Sky by N.K. Jemison. I don't have that. I do have the inheritance trilogy. All N.K. Jemison is amazing. Really co-signed this recommendation. I would say fifth season, which is the first in the Broken Earth trilogy, is far and away my favorite. It's told in second person narration, which is really like you. It's really hard to pull off. It's really, really well done. But this is, I mean, it's like kind of about earthbenders in a way. It's a really, really good story. Our main character comes home to find her son has been murdered. Her husband and her daughter are missing. And she has to find them sort of across this world that is breaking. The earth is breaking.

And there are certain people who can manipulate the earth and sort of could possibly heal it. And they are viewed with suspicion. And it's an incredible world. N.K. Jemison is just, like, one of our best writers in this space. So really recommend it. The Adventures of Amina Al-Sarafi by Shannon Chakraborti. I love this book. I haven't read the second book, The Tapestry of Fate.

But this first book, a retired pirate captain drawn out of retirement for one last adventure with her crew. It's set in our world, but the story incorporates, like, fantastical elements like sea monster. monsters, demons, forbidden artifacts, and jinns. It's a real get the band back together. A middle-aged mother is our main character, but she's swashbuckily as ever. And Tabascia Fate came out May of this year. But this book was really, really fun and really, like, just like rip-roaring adventure kind of story. So, yeah, that's, I would really recommend that. We got a lot of emails about that. Last listener email recommendation, the incandescent by Acknowledge. Emily Tesh. This is also

requested on my Libby app. Here's the recommendation. Read the incandescent by Emily Tesh if you love. Messy bisexuals, magical schools, demon hunters, incredibly specific specialties, beautiful tattoos, containing multitudes, centuries of tradition, pastoral settings, class dynamics, tragic backstories, hot bushes on bikes, and a gin and tonic.

All of that sounds great to me. So the incandescent by Emily Tesh is on my TBR. I'm going to have like a lot to read before the end of the year. I'm really, really excited about it. So that is our listener recommendation section. We also got a ton of other recommendations that I'm going to be working my way through and I will mention them where I can. But thank you for all of your emails. They were incredible. Hobbits and Dragons

gmail.com if you have even more that we haven't gotten to. And last but not least, we're just going to zip through a couple things. Something I'm calling House of Our Classics. And these are just books we've mentioned before plenty of times. But I want to make sure that I mention them here just in case people are like but you didn't mention. Okay. So T.J. Cloons, the House and the Surreliance Sea, both Mallory and I read this one.

And somewhere beyond the sea, I'm not sure if Mal has gotten to this one yet. But these are, again, sort of like the Becky Chambers book I mentioned, the sci-fi book I mentioned. These are incredibly cozy. Very, very, like, you could, young skewing. This is a story about a home for magical children, but they're actually kind of like monstrous children. but it's very found family and it's sort of like, what if your monstrosity is actually a gift? Very, very cozy. Just like could not possibly be more cozy. Very like X-Men, but make it just like a cozy cup of tea and the Great British Bake Off at the same time. So if you want to cozy up, the T.J. Clune books are there for you. Like, they're not my favorite ever, but like that just like wraps you up on a hug and just really enjoyable for that.

Tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow. there is an adaptation of this coming up. You're going to want to read this book if you haven't. Mallory and I've talked about this endlessly. But this is an incredibly cool book. He's a sci-fi fantasy. Yeah, it's about video games and creating video games and a group of friends and their interconnected story and how they bonded over story and how they grew to create these

incredibly immersive video game worlds and what that immersion in story means for their friendships and their relationships. So tomorrow and tomorrow. Madeline Miller. We talked about this a bit on the Odyssey podcast, but Circe and Song of Achilles, which I both reread after watching The Odyssey. Odysseus is a character in both of them, kind of an asshole in both of them, but in the way that you would expect from Odysseus.

These are just the best books ever. And if you want to cry all the tears out of your face, read the Song of Achilles, and if you just want to be transported and you loved the Circe section of the Odyssey, read Searcy. So good. And then I've been talking about this book for a year about All the Birds in the Sky by Charlie Jane Anders. And this is a really cool story about a young boy and a young girl. And she's a witch and he's in sci-fi. So it's just this really cool clash of sci-fi and like witchcraft together. Set in San Francisco, my hometown. So check out all birds in the sky. I've recommended this plenty of times. Last but not least, I get emails a lot

from listeners asking sort of what their kids should read to get them into sci-fi fantasy. I always, I recently emailed the listener back because I always get really hesitant to recommend books to other people's children because other people have really different thresholds of like what they want their kids to be reading in terms of like sex and violence, let's say. And I was allowed to read whatever I wanted as a kid. So I was reading some like very racy books when I was quite young because it was like the 80s and 90s and no one was paying attention. So I have, I'm always like a little disoriented like what was I reading at that age? something, maybe you don't want your kid to read. I'm not sure. But I just thought I would just really quickly, I'm calling this Origin Stories. These are the books I read that got me like really, really into sci-fi fantasy. My number one book series of all time is Tamara Pierce's

Song of the Lioness Quartet. Alana, the first adventure. You can see how many times I've read these damn books. Alana the First Adventure, in the hand of the goddess. There's two other ones, but those are the best ones. And these books are amazing. A girl wants to become a knight. disguises herself as her twin brother, goes to a castle, becomes a knight, incredible books. Anything Terry Pratchett? Anything ever Terry Pratchett? I read them all. I love them all. Rest in peace, Terry Pratchett, you're incredible. The Tiffany Aking series I've talked about a lot. That's about a young witch. But the Discworld series, which is sort of like his more famous, more popular book series where he basically examines all these structures of powers inside of a fantasy city, Discworld, Angmoreport in Discworld. But Nightwatch is my favorite. It's like a step above the rest, I think.

And it's a time travel story of when the captain of the guard, Sam Bynes, the head of the Knights Watch, gets sent 30 years back in time along with a craze murderer. And he has to avert a disaster that happened 30 years ago, all the while mentoring, training a younger version of himself, like the young version of himself. It's a really, really cool story. I love time travel.

This is a great story. but anything Terry Pratchett. Never-ending story. Michael Enda, have you heard of it? You've heard of the movie. The movie is only like half of the book. The book is, I love the movie. It's a perfect movie.

This is, the book is even better. So the never-ending story, the book, if you've never, like, read that yourself or read it with your kids, I just, like, really recommend it. There's no, in terms of, like, content warning, there's, like, some sexual, like, illusion stuff in the Alana books, but I was reading it in school in sixth grade,

so make a thought of what you will. No, no, nothing too dicey. at all in Terry Pratchett. Never any story could not be more innocent, so don't worry about it, except for what happens with Art Tex, if you know, you know. The Dragonlance Chronicles is what got me into fantasy, like really, really in the first place.

These are just classic D&D campaign kind of stories. Like, could not be more classic D&D campaign. We've got a mage. We've got, you know, half elven. We've got all these different kinds of characters. These are classics, a reason the Dragonlance Chronicles, I would really recommend them. Dragons of Autumn, Twilight,

dragons of winter night, dragons of spring dawning. Couldn't be nerdier, but really, really impactful. Content warning, slightly sexy stuff, I think happens in those books. Hero in the Crown and the Blue Sword by Robin McKinley. What if you're the daughter of the king? You're not the heir to the throne. You don't fit in anywhere. There are dragons ravaging the countryside. You try to invent an ointment that makes you impervious to fire and become a dragon slayer. That's what this book is about. And then this is like sort of a spin off of that book. But any Robin McKinley book, she's got a really cool Robin Hood book. She's got a really cool Beauty and the Beast book. But anything Robin McKinley, nothing to advanced content sort of

warning-wise. And these are just like really, really good books. And then last and least, and these are definitely more in the YA for mature readers. Kristen Kishore, books, gracedling, fire, bitter blue. These are about, I mean, stop you've heard me, heard this before. There's a young woman. She has magical powers. She is a royal assassin, and she's sent on a mission, and she uncovers something, a mystery that she has to chase down.

She is imbued with a magical power where she can kill people with like a flick of her wrist. She's incredible. She uncoveres a mystery. She has to chase down what it is, and it sort of unravels all of these lies inside of the kingdom, and then Fire and Bitterblue, and there's a couple more in the series that are all about different people. But Graceling's the first one, Fire, Bitter Blue, Kristen Kishore, incredible books. That has been just a million book recommendations, more than you ever thought

possible. If you're still listening or watching Bravo, congratulations. Next up is our chat with Anthony Juselnik with even more book recommendations. Again, all of these book titles, at least the main ones I talked about, will be in the notes for these episodes. on YouTube and on Spotify. And then we'll have some, like, social lists up on our, like, Instagram, et cetera, that you can look up as well. But that is, you know, I love books. I love recommending books.

I love talking about books. That has been my recommendation. Please do send me more recommendations. If you saw some books that I talked about, you're like, I love those books. I think Joe would like these books as well. Send them in. Malley would have loved to have been here. This is supposed to happen when she was on vacation.

It didn't, you know, when she has a million hours to carve out, she will talk about all the gajillion books that she loves and loves to talk about. But she has, we have a lot of loves in common. So I'm representing for Mallory here as well. Let's go now to our conversation with Anthony Justin Mike. New from Nespresso. Blend wellness into your coffee routine with a coffee plus range infused with functional benefits. Choose the coffee you love with added B vitamins, like coffee plus B12 to help support immune function and coffee plus B6 to keep your day moving. Or go with the flow and choose ginseng delight. Our new double espresso with ginseng extract.

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I had a father called Vision. How is this possible? Don't miss the two-episode premiere of Marvel Television's Vision Quest. Nothing bonds a family together quite like Mortal Jeopardy. Streaming October 14th, only on Disney Plus. All right, welcome to the podcast, Anthony Desslenick. Thanks so much for joining us. Thank you for having me.

Yeah, I'm really excited about your new pod that you're doing the network. Do you want to talk about why you're doing a book podcast and what it's all about? Yeah, I started a Juselnik Book Club at the beginning of the year. I was just doing it out of my living room. by myself, giving people a book a month. My goal was to get men to read, and anyone really, to read literature. Sure. I think people get people off their phones more and reading more books. So I was picking books that were, that I really loved, that were 250 pages, 300 pages. People, I didn't want to give people an excuse to say, I don't have time. Yeah. And books were usually a good

ending to make people try to finish them and then recap it at the end of the month in a video. They could email me questions. And the ringer came over. and said make it a weekly, weekly podcast. And I decided I'd like talking to authors. So I do the monthly thing. Today is my first day. It feels like my first day of school. Welcome.

Welcome to class. And I'm meeting all my different classmates. And just being a part of this cool staff. Like, I feel like the least cool person at the ringer. That's definitely not true. I don't know. I haven't met everyone yet. But everyone just seems like they have it, they have their shit together.

And everyone seems like they're having a good. time. Can I ask you about you said a good ending? What qualifies a good ending for a book for you? Something that kind of surprises you, like seems inevitable, but yet surprises you. I like a dark ending for sure. Like my first book that I chose was The Getaway by Jim Thompson. And that has been, I don't know if you've read the book. The movie, it's like they get away. They get to Mexico. And in the book, they like end up in hell. And it's totally different that I was like, you have to read that book to get that experience that is a kind of a gut punch. So I like books that just make you want to finish them. I love that you're doing this. I worked in my 20s.

I was a bookseller in independent bookstores in San Francisco. This is my thing, was hand-selling books, putting books in hands. I just think it's a not to sound too corny about it, but I actually think it's a very noble thing to do to get people because reading fiction, I think, is how we grow empathy. I think is incredibly important. And it's so dwindling. It's so dying out. So I just love that you're doing this project. And tell me about why men in particular you want to get men to read books. I mean, I've always been a big reader of fiction. I like, fiction is my thing way more than, nonfiction feels like I'm going to school. And nonfiction, I just, a fiction I always loved since I was a kid. It was the only way to settle me down.

And I think the way that I write my jokes, I can, I couldn't do it if I wasn't reading so much. And I just see the problem of men not reading literature, men, the, the, the mayor, the, the, loneliness epidemic, I think could be solved with just kind of embracing it and reading a book. And I think there's a lack of empathy in the world that I think literature could solve. And I thought I might be the guy that people could look up to to read books. And my audience is like 85% men. Like the books are for everyone. I have a diverse, you know, reading list.

But my, again, the people who follow me online are 85% guys. And if I can get guys to read 12 books this year, that's a huge accomplishment for me. And you read over 50 books a year? What's your? I read like 50 new books a year. I like to stay with what's coming out every week. I look at the list on Tuesday and try to find the book that's for guys, which is kind of rare. You know, there's a lot of books about like the woman on the train kind of thing, like Lifetime movie books.

Yes. You're reading dungeon crawler Carl with my co-host, Mallory Rubin. is one of your first picks here for your podcast. One of my pitches coming to The Ringer was I want to be challenged by the Ringer staff. I think you're all very cool. And I want people to like, here's a book you wouldn't read normally. And I would normally never have picked up Dungeon Crawler Car. I know.

It doesn't fit with your vibe. So tell me more about it. So I was like, this will be a good, a good challenge. I want to read it with someone who wants to read the book. I don't want to make someone read it. But when Mallory was like, I'll do this. Yeah. And was enthusiastic.

I was like, this is perfect. I don't know if she's read it yet. She's in the middle of it right now. I have finished it. Okay. I don't want to give too much away. Let's not spoil your combo with Mal. But like it's not something you would ordinarily pick up.

No. How did you like not getting too deep into it? I don't want to knock anything that's getting people to read. You know, kids are reading Harry Potter. Enjoy Harry Potter. I would never read it, but I'm not going to knock anything anyone's reading. Yeah. I was small spoiler.

I was surprised that I didn't hate it. That I liked it more. It was not what I thought it was going to be. Like, I'll give, like, like, insoles exist in this world. Carl is not an in cell. I thought just from what I've heard about the book, and I think I was misinformed, that this was kind of like literature for incels, and it is not. Okay.

And I was pleased to find that out. You know, I'm not a big video game guy. Yeah. So it is, like, very much video game. I played Dungeons and Dragons as a kid. Nice. So I kind of like that aspect of it. So how do you feel about our, like, our,

set here, our cloaks on the tree and our Phoenix and it's very rent fare. I think it's cool. I think they put more money into this than my set. But I think maybe that will change over the years. Your set's brand new. You should have seen our set at the beginning. It'll grow from where it is.

I believe it. I believe it. On the dungeon crawler, Carl, Angle specifically, I was back home the other day and my brother-in-law, who doesn't talk to me about books very often, said that he read it. It was recommended to him by this like guys group that he works out with. So like his his guys group that he

works out with, they're all reading dungeon crawler Carl. He picked it up. Now my 16 year old nephew is reading. My nephew reads a ton, but like my nephew's reading it. And I was just sort of like, on your thesis of like let's get guys to read, I do think this book has been sort of a smash hit with guys across board. And my brother-in-law says something similar where he was like, I thought it was going to be kind of dumb. Like I didn't think I would I would find depth to it, but I did. And so I think it's a really interesting pick for your, I think you're going to really love talking to Mallory about it. I'm very excited to talk about it because none of my friends have read it. I think the audiobook is big for this one.

I ended up reading it instead of doing the audiobook. Where are you on audiobooks in general? I believe that there is something to staring at the written word that is meditative, that it's in your head. And I think that's special. I think an audiobook, it really depends on who's reading the book. Yeah, it does. You know, that I think that is almost unfair. But get things how you can.

Yeah. I do nonfiction audiobooks in the car, but I like to read my literature. But I'm on a Kindle. I'm not like a, you know, you got to have a physical copy. Some people are crazy about that. I say if you are insecure about listening to an audiobook, just lie. No one's going to test you. Just say I read the book.

Just say I read it. I will go further and say, I don't think there's a problem with listening to a book. You know what I mean? I think you lose something in the meditation of sitting there and reading. There is something to that. Yeah. But I don't think you're missing a ton. Like, you still read the book.

Yeah. If you're like, oh, you didn't read it. You listened to the audio book. That's the same thing. I agree. I think it depends where you're listening to the audio book, right? Because a lot of people listen to it while they're multitasking and they're doing multiple things.

So you can be slightly distracted while you're listening to it. But if you're listening to it while you're doing a long drive, which I think is it can be like a very meditative space, you know, hopefully you're paying attention to the road. But that's like a very sort of Zen moment where you can get really into a story, I think, on a drive. But if you're trying to do too many things at once while you're listening to the book, then I do think you lose a little. I do only do it in the car and I do tune out sometimes. That's why I do nonfiction. So I'll be kind of in and out.

You can dip back in. It's tough with a novel because I'm like always kind of going back to the beginning of it. But some not audio books, I'm like, this narrator sucks. Yeah. You can ruin a book. And I haven't gotten an AI narrator. yet, but I got to think that that would be I'm out.

Intolerable. Horrible. Let's recommend some books. Please. Okay, so you're not a huge sci-fi fantasy guy. Not a huge one, but I respect the genre and I have like, I think three body problem

changed my life. Like, I think about it all the time. Tell me why. Read all three because of the science of it. The science is correct. Like they nail things. I think the dark forest theory

is fascinating to me. that I'm like, oh, I get this. This makes sense. I like the way that the world changes through, the fact that when they go into cryosleep and they wake up and society has changed, that, you know, we talk about politics and it's like things really are in a pendulum, that things go back and forth that when they like, they go to sleep and technologies everywhere and they wake up and there's technologies nowhere,

that they've kind of gone back or like men have been like feminized in one generation and the next, it's the opposite. Then I thought that was a fascinating look at the world and just tore through those books right in a row, which I rarely do with a series. I'll take a break. I really love that one, and I think about it all the time.

You didn't find any of the science or the math sort of challenging or... How does that happen? Like, sometimes you're reading like a hard sci-fi and there's just like a lot of science or a lot of math in it, and some people find that sort of an obstacle to getting into the story. Is that not something you... I just push through. I'm like, I get what I get.

Yeah. And if it goes over my head, that's fine. Right. But I didn't understand like the importance of physics, you know, until I read this book. I didn't understand the importance of like, oh, if they're more technologically advanced, we have no chance. Yeah. Because they have gone so rapidly over that that was just fascinating to me to learn, learn that. I don't know that much about science, but I thought that that was a brilliant way to

explain it to an idiot. Okay. Tell me some other books that you recommend under this umbrella. Okay. Let me go. I mean, I put down the list of books that have come out like this year and recently that I think are in your wheelhouse. And these are not like, there's nothing I've read that's like three body problem. There's nothing that's like hard science. Right. But there is kind of like a fantasy aspect. I'm sure you are familiar with Emily St. John Mandel. She has a new one out called Exit Party. Which I wouldn't even consider her science fiction because it's so much more character-based, even though there are ghosts, there is time travel, they're different things.

But it feels like such a human story. Yeah. It doesn't feel as sci-fi. That's true of all of her stuff, though, that there's like a fantastical or an alt-history sort of element to it. But I think she's a real breakthrough across audience kind of author, where people who say, I don't read sci-fi fantasy, I only read sort of seriously. literature, whatever you want to call that, love her stuff. And then people who love alt history, Station 11, obviously, like her most famous book, one of my favorite books of all time,

an incredible TV adaptation of that book. But Glass Hotel was amazing. And I haven't read her newest yet, but I'm really excited. Glass Hotel was today's episode of, like, the big recap, which is my favorite of hers. And then when I read it again, it made me appreciate her other books more. Station 11 was my first experience with her and I loved it so much I did not watch the adaptation You have to I know I have to and I will

But I like sometimes the I just want the book to be In my heart Like that the scene Where the plague first comes over And there's a woman in a hotel And you see the hotel falling apart And then she just kind of like

Makes it out to the beach chairs Yeah To die Is will stay with me For the rest of my life That I didn't want to see their version Or if they left it out you know, that I just never got into it.

Well, that's my question about, okay, let me ask you a question about adaptation. Does it, if it's a book you love, a story you love, is it almost a little bit better if it's a very unfaithful adaptation that they take a lot of liberties? Because then you sort of, there, you don't have to be too precious about they didn't get this scene quite right. Because this Station 11 TV show, Patrick Somerville, and he's also doing, I think, Glass Hotel for an adaptation. but it's definitely based on, it's definitely in this world, but there are a lot of differences. And I sometimes find if it's a story I really love, I really appreciate an adaptation that takes big different swings

that are still in the same idea set in the same world. But I don't have to say like, oh, they didn't get this line quite right or they didn't get this, you know, scene set deck quite right or whatever because we're kind of expanding out in that same world. I think I agree with you. I think it's like artist to artist. I want the artist to do their thing. Yeah.

I don't really care if it's a strict adaptation. I don't need to see it, but just what's in my head when I think Station 11, I didn't want the TV show to obliterate that. Yeah. Or to smear across that. I totally get that. But I don't, but I will watch it one day. I believe that it is amazing. It is a masterpiece.

Sometimes I love the book so much that I don't want to watch the movie, but I think that I don't have a problem with the movie or the series. I'm glad it gets the book more attention. Yeah. Sometimes it's just what's in my head. Totally. Versus where I'll see the movie and think the movie's so great. I don't want to read the book. You know, it can go either way.

Yeah. But I don't have, I'm not like, oh, you weren't faithful, so I won't watch it. I would rather you do your own thing. Yeah. And I'm sure Emily St. John Mandel is happy with however that series turned out. She, I mean, can I spoil something about the premise of the adaptation? So, you know, there's two, two important characters in Station 11, Jeevan and Kirsten, right? and the adaptation had him walk her home from the production of Lear that happens at the beginning of the breakout of the pandemic.

And so their sort of fates are intertwined in that way. And Emily St. John Mandel has said in many, many interviews, she said, why didn't I do that? It was one of those like adaptive choices where she just said, why didn't I do that? Why didn't I tangle these stories together a bit more? I love that. Like when Stephen King saw The Mist and was like, I wish I'd thought of that ending. You know, that's even better. Yeah.

That, yeah, I just, I have not gotten around to Station 11. But again, Emily St. John Mandel is incredible. And the exit party, I think, might be her best. And definitely the most sci-fi. Okay. And very of the moment. In a way where Station 11 was like people were reading during the pandemic, like, what the fuck? What the hell?

Whereas I think you read, you read Exit Party now and you're like, okay. Like, you know, we're watching the news. Oh, got it. Okay. Yeah. That can be tough, though. Sometimes you don't want to marinate in that. I think she does it in a masterful way where it's not quite, it just, it feels timely,

it feels urgent, you know, to read that book now, that I think she again, once again, nailed it with the timing. Excellent. I will do horrible things to get Emily St. John Mandel on my show. I mean, you've been singing her praises for a long time. I feel like this has to happen. When she comes to L.A., I believe we will get her. It's hard doing a show about books in Los Angeles.

I may as well be in fucking Antarctica. It's true. They're all in New York. It's really true. All right. What's next on your list? Next on my list. I've got Etna by Paul Yun.

Have you heard of this? I've read other Paul Yun books, but not this one. Okay. It's about a dog. Literally, it's from the perspective of a dog. It's in an unnamed country that's going to war. He's a puppy on a farm, and he gets taken him by soldiers that, like, we are just almost like they would take the young men from a village to be like, you're going to be in the war.

They train him. He ends up being very good at this. He, like, he survives the war. War's over. He's got PTSD. he's beaten up and he wants to go back home. It's like about PTSD. It's about like trying to refine your innocence.

And it's also about like John Wick if John Wick was the dog. So it is awesome. And I will, I'm not a big spoiler guy, but I will say the dog lips. Okay. A lot of people die. A lot of people will not even crack this book open if they think the dog won't make it. But Etna makes it through. Okay.

And I'm not, I don't read a lot of books from the dog's point of view. Yeah. But I wish there were more written from the dog's point of view. There's a couple. But yeah. So is that what puts it in sort of this genre bucket for you? The fact that it's like we're inside a dog's mind. Yeah. And that in fact it's like an unnamed country. You know, it's like a little bit. It's an alternate universe. Yeah. Then the one we live in, but not one that's not that far off. Love it. What else? Another one, we burned so bright by T.J. Kloon. Have you heard of this? I've definitely heard of this. I've definitely read a lot of T. T.J. Clune. I'm really curious. This is my first T. T.J. Clune. Okay. What did you think? I thought it was great. I thought it was it's about a married. couple who it's the end of the world.

Everything is, I think the, the moons kind of crash into the earth or whatever it is, something that happened in a, in a movie starring, oh, fuck, who's the guy? Who's the guy who was in Greenland? He was in, he was in a movie called Plain.

Gerard Butler. Oh my gosh. A Gerard Butler movie. It's like a, something that happened in a Gerard Butler movie. Okay. It's happening to the earth. And these guys go on a road trip.

and before the end of the world to do something, they have an emotional journey, they have to take care of. And it's just, they're running into people on their way to the end of the world that I thought was a beautiful look at, you know, how things might end.

Not scientifically viable, but just again, it's in that world of the apocalypse is coming. How are we going to handle it? And it's handled in a positive way, I think. That's not a bummer. He's, So I think some of his most famous books are The House on the Surreliant Sea and then somewhere beyond the sea, which is sort of the sequel of it.

And both of those are just incredibly cozy. It's sort of like an almost an X-Men story where it's a school for gifted, strange, unusual children with this fantastic element. But there is this like queer love story at the center of it. and there is just this incredibly strong found family element to it. And I think people, a thing that people really love in T.J. Kloon's books are just on a bash emotionality. Is that how you describe this book? Yes. That's in there.

And it's done very well. Excellent. I enjoyed it. What else? I've got Angel Down by Daniel Krause. I don't if you've read that one. I have. It was one where I read the description.

And I had read Whalefall, his book, and it enjoyed it. It got a little jesusy from me. me. But I enjoyed the book. And then angeled down, I was like, get the fuck out of you. Like, this doesn't sound like me at all. And when it won the Pulitzer, I picked it up immediately. Yeah.

Tor through it in a couple of hours. Wow. And now we've, like, become friends on Instagram, like, sharing recommendations and talking. Okay. This book is like, you swallow this book. It is. Much like a whale might swallow a person.

Exactly like that. Okay. Exactly like that. And it is about an angel. It is, like, it is semi-religious. Yeah. Like, there's no Jesus in this book. It's World War I.

It is bloody and muddy and just like and gritty. And I think he nails the ending. I get why he won the Pulitzer. The one sentence structure works for me and was just absolutely incredible with these supernatural elements that feel like you're on a World War I battlefield. And that book really spoke to me. In terms of whale fall, are you going, is this one where you will watch the movie? I can't imagine. Okay.

I can't imagine. I do. Maybe I just don't see a lot of movies anymore. Okay. I love that. Yeah. I don't know about whale fall of the movie. Like the book, I wanted the book to be more like The Martian.

I loved The Martian. I saw the movie The Martian. Did not see Project Hail Mary. Okay. Seemed a little cheeseball for me. Okay. I didn't read the book either. Okay.

But the whale fall is very, it's like similar to the Martian. It's like solving problems one after another. Yeah. And eventually getting out. But again, it's just a little too much Jesus for me in my book. If there's less Jesus in the movie, would you be tempted to watch it? Are you just sort of like, the bar, the bar is really high for what gets you to the movies these days is what you're saying.

Now that I know the story. Ryan Gosling is not going to get to there. A guy in a whale is not going to get to them. Ryan Gosling will get me into a movie. It's the, it's the rocky guy that I was like, this looks a little too cutesy for me. Okay. And it was almost like too popular for me to want to go see. but I'd like, if I hadn't read the book,

I would be way more into the idea of a guy getting swallowed by a whale. But knowing what happens and how he gets out just makes me not as interested. I don't want to knock people from going to see the movie, but that's just... I think people are going to see it.

I hope so. I think they are, yeah. I hope so. I think excitement is high for whalefall. I'm really bullish on it. It's really hard to get me to the movies nowadays. Fair enough. Okay, but Angel Down.

Your pro. And now I'm going to go, I'm going to give you some... Another one from this. year, the vivisectors by Missouri Williams. I don't know this one at all. This one, it was long listed for the Booker Prize. Did not make the short list, but it is a, it's in like in a world where universities like are the cities where like the college is like the most important thing. Education is the most important thing. And it's rapidly deteriorating. And with climate change,

like plant life is taking over these cities where gardeners are not like the most important people. They're like the doctors and the politicians almost where they almost run the world. Oh, I love that. It's very like esoteric, very metaphoric and just hard to even understand, but beautifully written and just, again, takes place in like a different world that you're glad you don't live in, but becomes fascinating. Okay. The way she builds the world is, is great. That was one from this year. There's one, there's two that are a little bit older, The Shamshine Blind by Paz Pardo. Have you heard of this?

Tell me why. Pasparto, I love the name. I'll never forget the name. And the sham shine blind's cool. It's an alternate universe. It's like alternate history where Argentina has like basically taken over the world. They created a weapon that's like bombs, but they produce emotions. So they can like make you depressed.

They can make you like so horny that you like tear people apart. Okay. And so weapons have become, emotions have become weaponized. And now it's like decades later. And it's almost like a gumshoe story. It's a detective story where instead of guns, they'll shoot you with emotions. With emotions. And like all of a sudden, like you're too depressed to keep chasing the villain.

Is depression the main emotion that sort of gets fired at people or is the horny gun deployed a lot? I think there is definitely a very memorable story about like a bomb being set off in San Francisco during a concert. Oh, okay. And the band gets torn to shreds by people who like love them too much. that like love depression. Classic, Sarasco, honestly. Exactly. Anything that you can use to hurt someone.

Any emotion, I think too much of it will be harmful. But I think depression is one of the bigger weapons. But it's a very interesting book and was under the radar and was in my top 10 the year it came out because I just couldn't stop thinking about it. Tell me the title again. The Sham Shine Blind. Love it. By Pas Pardo. And then there's one, are wives under the sea?

Yes. Did you read this one? I did. Yeah, I enjoyed that one because it was like science fiction. It's this metaphor for divorce for couples falling apart. A woman is waiting at home while her wife is on a submarine. It gets stuck on the submarine for like a year when it should have been a week, comes back. And it's like I was fascinated by trying to get help.

You know, you're on the phone trying to talk to someone to be like, what went wrong? Help us. There's no help coming. and it's just like how do we deal with what we have in front of us, of this metaphor of my wife turning into water that I thought was beautifully written. And again, it puts me in shoes that could not be further from my own. This is what we love about what novels,

and I think especially genre novels can do. You know what I mean? Because I think this is why I love sci-fi fantasy in general is any book you would hope if it's well written or your mind and your heart is open, you can empathize with the main character. But sometimes there could be obstructions of just, I can't relate to that circumstance.

But when you make the circumstance so fantastical, where it's that nobody has experienced, you know, a literal apocalypse or this, that, or the other thing, I think it opens something inside all of all of us where we can just wonder what it would be like to be under those strange circumstances. And that's, I mean, I love all, I love literary fiction,

but it's why I continually gravitate, I think, towards sci-fi fantasy books at the end of the day. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I love that. Just going from, like, fear to frustration, to acceptance. I think it's just beautifully done. I love a good, you know, sci-fi metaphor. Love it. All right.

Just a couple quick other questions for you while I have you. Any, well, you already said it's really hard to get you to the movie theater or even to maybe even watch a TV show. You're loving lanterns right now. lantern so upset it's ending with eight episodes. I would kill for 10. You want 10. I really won a second season. Yeah. I would watch Kyle Chandler and Aaron Pierre. I would watch them forever doing anything. The detective or the sheriff. Kelly McDonald. Yeah. I love her in everything that I've seen her in. I can't get an I think they just nailed it. I hope they pull off the ending. Yeah. But I am the guy from Banshee who plays Sinestro. Yeah, I know. Anyone from Banshee.

I'm a fan of. I just really like the vibe. It's not only the rare show that I'll watch every episode twice. I love it. I'll watch it Sunday night and on Monday. I'm like, I want to watch this again. Do you, I haven't seen the finale so I don't know the answer, but do you want, if there's a second season and they don't have Kyle Chandler in it,

because, you know, the juice runs out and the halogram is gone. Like, are you interested in that second season? I would start it. but way less interested. I mean, Kyle Chandler is doing some fucking heavy lifting. It's incredible. He's charming as hell. And I feel like just from seeing the preview, I think we're getting more Kyle Chan.

More Kyle Chandler. I don't think you get rid of Cal Chanmer. But any upcoming adaptations that are of interest to you that are based on sci-fi fantasy books that you're aware of. I was prepped for this interview and I was like, oh shit, I'm really screwed here. The one that I am excited about. To be clear, the prep came through late last night. Exactly. So you did not get a lot of time for this.

No, I did not. But also, like, I'm not, I'm just not, they gave me examples. And I was like, I didn't know they were doing an adaptation of Clara and the Sun. Yeah. But I didn't, like, I've read, I've read some of his books, but not that one. Mm-hmm. The one adaptation I am excited for is the new Blade Runner. Okay.

On Amazon. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, Blade Runner anything. Okay. I think the last Blade Runner movie. Amazing. The Evil of, yeah. Was, like, a masterpiece.

You know, got you there. Ryan Gosley, incredible. And, like, a late Harrison Ford, great performance that I, I really enjoy that. More than I think even the first one, that I'm excited to see where they go with 2019. That's a take I've been seeing a lot, that people really, like, 2049 may be better

than the original Blade Runner? I think partly there's like eight Blade Runners. Yeah. You know, there's eight different versions of it. Do you have a strong feeling on which cut of the original Blade Runner is the right one? No. I didn't know enough.

When I saw it as a kid, I didn't know enough that there were more, and I've seen other ones. And now I just remember my favorite scenes. but the new one, I was just like, oh, you could have not seen Blade Runner. Yeah. And just loved it. I just thought that was incredible.

Okay. So the Amazon show, you're all in. I will watch that. Okay. Michelle Yo. Michelle Yo. Hunter Schaefer. Okay.

I don't know that much about it going in, but I just know it's coming out later this year. Like, I love Invincible, you know, whenever Invincible comes out. But like the boys I was into and then dropped out of. Okay. Maybe when they have Vot Uprising. This makes me think that you only have Amazon. Prime. Is that the case? No, I have Apple. I have Apple TV. I have almost everything except Hulu. Okay. Lulu is a tough one for me. Okay. Um. And Disney Plus, I refuse. Oh, on principle? I don't, I don't like

Disney. I really want to see X-Men 97 so bad. It's really good. So bad, but I just can't, I'm not going to get Disney Plus just for that. Okay. And I'm not a, uh, every time Disney buys another company, I'm like, oh, I'm not getting hired there, you know, so it's, Got it. They're my nemesis. Okay. Do you ever read Cloud Atlas? No, I do not.

The David Mitchell book. In the future in Cloud Atlas, every movie is called a Disney. Like, because they've just taken over everything. So it just becomes a anonymous movie. Spooky, dystopian, which are there any? So you haven't watched Station 11. Did you watch a three-body problem adaptation on Netflix? What did you think?

I did. I enjoyed it for what it was. Okay. I think it's so hard to do that I was like, oh, let's see what the big swing they take. I honestly was just excited for like the boat, the canal scene. Yeah. When they cut everything up that I loved, I thought that was done great. I think the actor they got from Game of Thrones to kind of be the leader is incredible.

He's so charming that I could watch him do anything. Yeah. There was some performance that I liked more than others. Okay. But I'm excited they're getting two more seasons. Yeah. I just want to see how they, I mean, it's an impossible adaptation. Yeah.

that I enjoyed it without being too critical because I'm like, you had an impossible job. They're trying. You're doing your best with what you have. But there were some things that I was just like, this is pretty cringe. And there were some things they left out that did really bum me out. That I'm not always, you know, upset about the adaptation. So you mentioned that, you know, in terms of what's coming up, you're like, not a lot of this on my radar. Are you not a Dune guy?

Not. Okay. But I will just say this about about. doing about, you know, you enjoy Genevilneville Nive, you like his Blade Runner, um, the, that feels like an impossible adaptation. And so everything that they've done in that world that has been successful, I've been so surprised and delighted by. And especially, I will say, this upcoming book that they're adapting, Dune Messiah, like, this is a wildly weird book. And so I'm very curious to see, I'll see, I'll be curious, like, if you start to hear about

what's in this third movie that's coming out, if it, if it, if it, it, if it, it's, if it might interest you. My problem with, I watched the first one during the pandemic at home. Yeah. And I had a terrible sound system in my whole place. I was in a condo. Yeah. And so a lot of it I like couldn't understand.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know when they go to that one world and everyone's like rah, that's what every character sounded like to me. Okay. But I thought, like a Charlie Browns or like, wah, wah, wah, wah, wow. Yeah. But I still thought, I loved some of the performances. I thought things were great.

And then two, I had no idea what the fuck was going on. I think I was like half watching it that I'd have to go back and watch them again to get into three. but if I hear amazing things about three, I might go back and do it. I'm not anti-Dune. I think it's just going to be really weird. I think it's going to be really weird,

like, weirder than I think people are expecting, which I'm really excited to, like, see how people react to it, who go in and say, oh, Florence Pugh is here and Robert Pattinson is here, and Timothy Chalame is here,

and, you know, all these, like, incredibly hot young actors are here. What is this very strange sci-fi thing that I'm being fed? And I think that's a really interesting thing's coming for us. I would like to see Timothy Chalamee play a villain.

You know, if that's what ends up happening. It seems like that's what they're hinting at. But again, my education on Dune is nil. It's not your thing. It's not my thing. I just never got into it. Yeah. Like, I loved Game of Thrones the show.

I never read the books. I read The Hobbit, but I never read Lord of the Rings. But I'm not, no judgments. Any other, like, sci-fi fantasy book adaptations that you've enjoyed? Like, I tried to get into the magicians. Yeah. I loved Love Grossman. Yeah.

I love the Bright Sword. I would love to see that turned into a movie or a... I love this book. It's incredible. This is such a good book. I wish he would do more in that series. I hope he does. Yeah.

Because I loved all the magician's books equally. I didn't think they, like, they dipped at all. But I would love to see a magician's adaptation. I think they could do that justice. So you, the show you were, the magicians, the show you watched? Yeah, I watched a little bit and was just like, oh, they're not, like, it's not... That was a loose adaptation. I think it was more like a

Mixing and matching some of the It was like a problem with the sci-fi network It almost felt WB to me Whereas if HBO had done it I think or showtime or something It would have been more up my alley But the books were so adult And the shows seemed to be more for teens

For like YAA, okay Yeah So you want to see the Bright Sword adapted Is there anything any other sci-fi fantasy books That you want to see adapted I would kill and listen This is my like favorite book I just finished I just turned in a forward

For a new edition of this book Have you ever read Cheangang All-Stars? No by, and I'm always terrified of messing this name up, so I've got to read it. By Nanaquame Ajay Brenia. Okay, tell me. It is, it's basically like, it's almost like running man. If you describe the plot, it's like running man.

It's in the future a little bit. Yeah. They have like prison colonies. It's murderers and rapists who like have to fight to the death. They get on these chain gangs. And then everyone's watching them on TV and gambling on them. And it comes down to like two lovers, these two women who are the best. They're like the, it's like the, it's like the,

like Michael Jordan and LeBron James of chain gang. Okay. And it's like they're eventually, they're going to have to fight each other. But it's, it sounds so like an action novel. But again, this was shortlisted for the Booker Prize

or like all these book awards. It was my favorite book of the past like 10 years. And I think it would make an incredible HBO miniseries. I think a movie you have to cram too much in, but there is action. It's a love story. And it is so incredibly done that if they were faithful to it in any way,

it would just be a absolute masterpiece that I'm sure someone has bought the rights. But I would be so excited. Is it ever something that you would want to do? Would you want to sort of help make an annotation of that book? If someone came to me and said, we're doing this, would you like to be like a consultant in some way? I would just be too afraid to fuck it up.

Okay. You know, but if I wouldn't want to write it myself, but if someone said, hey, we'd love for you to be a part of this, then sure. Okay. But again, it's just not my, I'm a joke guy. You know, I like what I like when it comes to books and I can talk about them pretty well. But I'm not.

But this is what I feel about sort of like, even something that sounds as violent and dystopian as what you're describing. This is what I love about lanterns and I love about some of the best adaptations that you need lightness and humor inside of these worlds. Yes. In order for us to enjoy our time there. So even if the ending is devastating or all these other. things. You need some sort of humor to get you through it. Oh, sure. And so they need a joke guy. I would take a pass on, we've written the scripts come up. In the last episode of Lanterns. Yeah. When he yells separate incidents, motherfucker, I was like, this is the, I had to rewind to watch it again.

Everything Kyle Chandler says is funny. Like, I love that. I love, I don't really watch a lot of comedies, but comedy in something dark. Yeah. Always gets me. Excellent. Always gets me. All right. Anything else you want to see adapted or do we do it? You know, I would like to see, The one author I was going to mention is China Mievel. Yeah, yeah. Miavilla. I've read The City and the City, which I think would be hard to adapt. They may even even tried that.

He's got a new book out right now called The Rouse that I want to read so fucking bad. What's the premise of it? It's militaries are like competing with this technology to raise the dead to fight. And it's a thousand pages. So it's like I've got to really take my time, but it sounds, and he's been working on this forever. and I read his book, the book of Elsewhere, the one he wrote with Keanu Reeves. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That I think would be a great movie or a great series. It came out last year, right? It came out two years ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And now you picture Keanu in the role. He'd be great. Yeah.

I think he'd even play it now in his kind of post-John Wick era. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I thought the book was really good. And I would like to see, I think it was very cinematic and would like to see that. I've always wondered about

Pertito Street Station, which is a Chenna-Mielville book that I really, really love. And I've always wondered why that hadn't been adapted. But I think as an author, he's so good at... His books are so cinematic. And the world building and the descriptions are... You just transport you there easily. And so, you know, there are some books you read where you're like,

why isn't this a damn movie already? Thank you so much, Anthony Jesselman. for coming on the show. Thank you for having me. I would love to have you on my show. And if you want to come and talk about the Bright Sword by Lev Grossman, I would love to. I would eat that up. I would be thrilled. That's a book that I think everyone should read. Yeah, this is Arthurian Nights. It's, you know, if you love Game of Thrones, especially if you love the Night of the Seven Kingdoms, the, you know, the Game of Thrones sort of spinoff novels and show that came out earlier this year. This is, I mean, I'm a, I love Arthurian legends in general, and this is just such a fun sort of, pass on those stories.

Yeah. I love the dialogue's incredible. I saw like King Arthur's, King Arthur with a lot of fucks in it. Yeah. You know, it's like just the best possible version. I was shocked at how much I enjoyed reading that. Yeah.

And we'd love to give it a reread at some point. Let's do it. Yeah. I'd love that. Well, thank you so much. Thank you for having me. All right. That has been it for House of Reets episode of House of R.

I'm Jonah Robinson. Thank you so much for joining me. Thanks so much to Anthony Jesselik for all of his recommendations. We will be back, as I mentioned, next week with Wanda Vision. Really, really excited to get back into Wanda Vision, one of my favorite shows of all time. And in advance of Vision Quest, thank you to Mallory Rubin for her endless support in me doing this episode. It's like just about my five-year anniversary with The Ringer. So this is like a special gift to me, Joy, and you just get to talk about the books you love.

Happy birthday to me. Happy five-year Ringer anniversary to me. Thank you to Carlis Chiraboga, Jacob Cornet, and Arjuna, Runk Powell, all three of which helped me stack all these books around here. And thank you to Mallory Rubin and Absentia. Thank you to all of you for all of your recommendations. I'm really excited. I promise before October is over, I will have read Red Rising. That is my promise to you.

Please tune in to Anthony Jethelny's podcast to listen to Malie Rubin talk about dungeon crawler Carl. We'll be back soon. See you soon. Bye. Advertising on Spotify with audio and display ads helps brands turn attention into results. Download the 2026 performance playbook and discover why Spotify belongs in your media plan.