House of R - ‘Buffy the Vampire Slayer’ Season 2 Rewatch (Part 1)

Episode Date: October 23, 2025

Mal and Jo are back in the Hellmouth! They continue their ‘Buffy the Vampire Slayer’ rewatch with the first half of Season 2 (through Episode 14 “Innocence”)!  They talk about their favorite episodes, most dated moments, the best fits, how hot Giles is, and more! (00:00) Intro(12:49) Opening Snapshot(38:48) Our Favorites(01:19:40) Superlatives Hosts: Mallory Rubin and Joanna RobinsonProducer: Carlos ChiribogaSocial: Jomi AdeniranAdditional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopowell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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wide and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring, save at Whole Foods Market. This episode is brought to by Boar's Head. What if we told you the taste of deep fried turkey is now available at your local deli? Well, Boar's Head just did that. Bursting with flavor, perfectly seasoned with that indulgent taste that usually means pointing your whole day around it, presenting the Friars Turkey Breast only from Boershead. The backyard tradition now available behind the counter. Visit your local deli today. Discover the craftsmanship behind every bite, Boershead, committed to craft since 1905. Hello and welcome to perhaps the most important episode of House of Ar. I'm Joanna Robinson.

Joining me today to talk about Buffy the Vampire Slayer Season 2, Part 1. It is Mallory Rubin. Mallory, how you doing? From now on, we're going to have a little less ritual and a little more fun around here. Let's see what's on TV. Quoting Spike already. But you didn't do the accent. I will at some point today be moved to attempt the accent. Exciting. Perhaps in our Spike-specific category.

Oh, my God. Very exciting. But a spike quote at the top, my gift from you, a Giles mug in my hand. The Jade mug. It's absolutely beautiful. It's astonishing. It's resplendent. And I get to be here with you at long last in person to talk about.

about Buffy. What a fucking privilege. What a day. Dare I say an honor. A write of passage, I think. I agree. Before we get into Buffy, so we're doing Buffy season two through episode 14 today, innocence. So that is what is on the agenda today. So if you're like, I'm not done with that part. Yes. Go watch it. Right. Up through 14. Yes. We have, we will not be saying things at least on purpose about the rest of season two today. We have both watched the back half of season two. But we will not be talking about that today. Contain yourself. Okay.

Love you. You're so beautiful. Quick program reminders, we should say the Midnight Boys. Poo-Pew! If you're listening to this on a Thursday, just yesterday, did the GenVe finale. Next week, they're going to be checking on Star Wars Visions. So a show that you were just talking about. Can't wait for that.

And we are doing Buffy Part 1 and Buffy Part 2 is what's on the agenda here. We'll do Buffy Part 2 next week. No way. waiting very soon. I'm thrilled. We got a lot of emails from listeners. The listeners are dialed in for the Buffy free watch. They are very excited, and that makes me very excited.

And every time I hear from someone who's like, Buffy's my favorite show, I can't believe you're finally watching it with Mallory, or I'm watching Buffett for the first time, it just like sends me to the moon. So hobbons and dragons at dmail.com, if you haven't already. Send us your thoughts. What else should people know about sort of keeping track with what we do, with what the Midnight boys do? I would say follow along. Follow the pod on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. You can watch full

video episodes of House of R and Midnight Boys PooPew on the Spotify app, incredible stuff, and on the Ringervor's YouTube channel. So hit subscribe there as well. While you're at it, you can follow the Ringervverse on the social media platform if you're choosing. We're not here to tell you what that is, do what you want. But we're there. You can find us there. And like Joe said, keep the emails coming. It's delightful to hear from you. It is delightful to share this experience with each other and with our. all of you. It's genuinely a thrill. This is like our favorite thing that we get to do. Yeah. And we have all sorts of other exciting things that are coming up too. We're like not that far away from the Frankenstein movie. We're not that far away from, I can't believe I led with Frankenstein instead of like, Stranger Things. I was like, she's going to say Stranger.

Frankenstein. Hot Frankenstein who fucks. Great. Exactly. Of that creature. And then Vecna, we've got Stranger Things. Season four, you watch pods coming still. We got new season five pots coming. So we've got all this. great. That's going to be a busy holiday season for us. We'd love to hear from you. We have a really exciting Chris Nolan Paul potential plan that I don't want to announce until it's done. I don't like to jinx those things, but we got a very exciting update on that. This podcast, which promised the Paul of Fame, will never again say anything out loud that we're not prepared to actually deliver. Feels like a curse. Okay. In the inbox, the Hobbits and Dragons and gmail.com inbox, amongst the many other Buffy emails we got.

We got a ton of questions for people both there and in the comments of what is, your plan for the television series Angel? Buffy ran for three seasons and then four more seasons after that. But after season three, Angel gets a spinoff. Oh, that's where it was slotted. Okay. Sorry. I guess I should not have said when that happened. But anyway, I've been wondering if that was set contemporaneously or if it's set in a different period of time. But I don't actually want to know the answer. But I want you to know that I'm thinking about that. I'm wondering. I punched the mic. Yeah. Because I'm moving my hands a lot. Because I don't. told you something you didn't know, and I'm sorry because I should have known that you didn't

know that. But anyway, I actually feel weirdly better about that information than if I knew it was like after everything. Yeah. Because then that makes me. But this is the question. Yeah. People are like, are you guys going to bounce back and forth? Like, what's your plan? We don't know what we're going to do, is the point. Yeah. There's, you can easily just watch Buffy all the way through and not watch Angel and then I can hear the emails coming saying like, no, you can't. You have to. So we will see. Interesting. Okay. So is there a world where we would do multiple seasons of Angel in the middle and then resume Buffy or would we do all of Buffy and then go back to do Angel? That's the question.

It's a question. Let's table this until after season three. Sheesh. It's a question for future Mallory and Joanna. Boy. I know. It's a lot of questions. Today, without question.

Season 2, episode 1, when she was bad. Season 2, episode 14, innocence. I'm thrilled. In the inbox, we got a couple emails because we were asking folks, what is the bronze exactly? And how is this a viable business model, et cetera, et cetera? And what I love is that we got a couple emails from people about their experience with like something bronze-esque. Yeah.

But we got one from Baltimore and one from the Bay Area from like Sonoma County, actually. Amazing. And so Fedra wrote in to talk about this place in Baltimore, a place in Fells Point. Love Fells Point. Love Fells Point. A waterfront commerce area called Funk's Democratic Coffee House. Not familiar. Sounded amazing. I don't even know if it's still like.

open, actually. But like, she said for a good while it was open 24 hours. Imagine like wandering into a bronze-esque place at like three in the morning. Sounds great. What a joy. And then Tom wrote in to talk about Railroad Square in Santa Rosa, which I know where that is, there was a place called Cafe This Exclamation Mark in the 90s. And I got to say, I miss a business with an exclamation mark in it. So both these places sounded like really, truly amazing. And I have to say, There's this like, okay, I don't know if you've ever had, maybe your, your Q's book club says this sometimes. Yeah. I feel like any group of sort of, this is a very millennial coded thing is let's all get property together where we all have a house on the property.

Is that like a family compound? Yeah, family compound. That's like, every time I hear someone say like, I have this idea to do with my friends. So I was like, yeah, everyone wants a commune actually, especially with housing prices being what they are. The other dream I've heard a million times over is I want to open this. I want to open a coffee shop slash bookstore slash bar where we do events. Yeah, sure. That's like a thing.

We've talked about it. I mean, now it's clear to me we're not the only ones who've talked about it, but I do believe that. Yeah, we talk about it. Is Angel part of our future? I don't know. But House of Reeds. House of Reeds is happening? That's locked.

Okay. I think. Basically, we want to create just like a community place that I guess is kind of bronze-esque. Anyway. I was shaken to my core this season when the sunset club and also like the mall featured prominently through these 14 episodes in this one Starbucks town, Joanna. The bronze obviously still, you know, dare I say the beating heart of the entire experience, obviously a crucial setting and many important events transpire there. But when his name is Willie, his character's name is Willie, but I texted you.

I sent you many. many emphatic text messages across these episodes, but I think my all caps, Moka Joe. Oh my God, it's Moka Joe. Kirby's enthusiasm inspired text about Willie. But I'm like, this location, all of these places. There's an ice skating rink? The ice skating rink.

Well, I have more commentary coming on the ice skating rink. How did Buffy and Angel get to the ice skating rink? Did he drive? What does he drive? I mean, we know he can't fly. can't control the sunlight. That's established canon now. The only car we know about is Giles and Cordelia.

So did Cordelia give Angel and Buffy a ride to the ice getting rink? I don't know. I have some questions. Great stuff. I have a lot of questions about that. And then Bruce, if everyone recalls, we had some notes on how to protect yourself against vampires in the year 2025. Yes. Bruce said, did we get a lot of emails about the umbrella, the Holy Water?

Yeah. And everyone was like, this is a great idea. No. People are like, I'm into it. You guys are geniuses. Your thought leaders and entrepreneurs and clearly destined to be. All vampire programming from now on will feature this. It's an incredibly sexy addition to vampire lawyer.

Bruce suggests in a perhaps more traditionally sexy vampire way, getting crucifix tattoos all over Zabadi. Would this work? I don't know. Is it just about the shape? What if you can you put? silver in the cross? You probably can't. Like in the ink? Yeah, I bet you can, they can put all sorts of stuff in tattoo ink, right? People do like pet ashes and stuff. Oh. Yeah. Yeah. They do.

I saw that on a way, I'm blanking on the show. I want to say it was probably, it was, I feel like it was selling sunset. I don't know for sure that it was selling sunset, but in my soul, I know that it was selling sunset. Yeah, you could probably put other stuff in, I'm not a professional tattoo artist. Add it to the list of things were not, so I can't say for sure. But they put pet remains in their tattoos. So that you're like carrying a little piece of your, you don't think it's sweet? I support it. It doesn't seem like you support it.

But you do support putting some sort of consecrated vampire warring element. Like would you put holy water in the ink? We have the privilege, of course, of, I mean, we've got matching tattoos. I don't know why that was the angle I went for. Felt it right here? It wouldn't be the one I would choose. We've got, you know, not only did we. get matching apple tattoos. You can't hear me because I'm not.

You can't get out of your elbow over your head. I'm going to do it. You can watch how some are on video. So, Joanna and I got matching apple tattoos, Apple Boards now and always. Mine's on my back. Joe's is on her back and is a green apple with a touch of red. Mine is on my arm here and is a red apple with a touch of green. Watercolor. Watercolor tattoos. Why not Holy water tattoos? Great. Again, these ideas, we're just giving them out for free. And thank you, Bruce, for the latest bit of inspiration here. So cremans or holy water or silver. So in Bruce's suggestion, you're just like covered. Well, he said.

In tattoos, there's it more like a strategic, you put one here, you put one here. He said cross tattoo on the neck to protect against bites. I guess you would have to do like both. Oh, that's a good idea. On the sternum for those V neck days. Yeah, sure. Cross tattoo on each forearm or the back of each hand. Cross tattoo on the stomach and cross tattoo on.

cross tattooed tramp stamp for those bare midriff moments. Right. I mean, it's not for me. I'll say that. But I think someone should try it. What do I just want, like, on the back of your hand so you can just sort of like, you know what I mean? Do you think it would work if you hid the cross inside of another shape? Let's try it.

Only one way to find out. Why don't you get that tattoo and then we'll go find some real vampires. I am ready for my next tattoo. Can't wait to try to show it off on camera in a year and a half and tear my account. Killies or something. What is it going to be? I don't know. You know, I've been thinking for a while of the ocean wave. Yeah, the wave. The ocean. Going to go down to the ocean, hon, with some Nanny Bed to watch the airs. Your little minimalist wave. My minimalist wave, I still want. But is it next? I don't know. Is it time for like a Thrones tattoo finally, a dragon, a dire wolf? Is it time for like something Lord

of the Rings? I mean, next year is such a big Lord of the Rings year? We should wait until next year to do our Lord of the Rings tattoos. I got bad news for you, bud. Next year's in like fucking a minute. It's October 21st. When you're hearing this, it's October 23rd. Havasandragansadjademil.com, if you have ideas for what Mallory should get tattooed on her body next. Yeah. Great. I'm sure you'll just take whatever they come up with. All right. Let's go down to our opening snapshot. Fantastic. All right. So as we've already alluded to, Mallory did enjoy season two. We'll get some topline thoughts from her. Just some quick factoids about Buffy season two. Why not?

me. aired from September 15th, 1997 to May 19th, 1998. Okay. Huge overturn in the writer's room. Barely anyone made it out of season one into season two.

This is like, this is what happened with loss. This happens sometimes, right? Most crucially, Marty Knoxon joins the team and she has a huge impact on the show. She brings, if you've seen her other work,

she brings a sort of like darker, feminine rage to what she does and we will continue to talk about Marty Knoxin as we go forward. That's what people said when you joined this podcast. We will continue to talk to me. Oh, darker feminine rage. Actually, yes.

Love that for me. Okay. And then what the writers have said is that they, they saw how people responded to like the soapier stuff in season one. Yeah. And they're like, okay, I guess we'll lead into that. There's quite a bit of that here. So it's much soapier in season two by design because they were like, oh, they didn't like our praying mantis lady as much as they liked the vampire. Slayer yearning for each other. Got it. I just want to, like, I'm going to do some continual reminders

of what it was like to watch this in real time week to week. What it's like to watch, like, a 22 to 24 episode season in real time over the course of a year. Yes. So, like, you're watching Buffy season two, fairly regular, you know, through the first half of the season. Ted is the only episode to air in December. So, like, between end of November and mid-January, the only episode you have to keep yourself warm as a Buffy fan is Ted. Well, at the end of the day, could you quibble? Sure, but let me spin it around and ask you this. Is there a better time of year to really get to think about what it would be like to make a mini pizza? You bake it. But then, you fry it. Olive oil and rosemary of memory serves, and it frankly might not. You're a Ted fan.

Ted had some good notes. Is that what you're saying? I did. Ted was a great. Ted was a great. I I'll say Ted was a cautionary tale of the, like, texting you in real time. Because I do believe I texted you. A picture of my team. Get it, Joyce. When they were about to fuck on the kitchen island and then had to follow up a few minutes later with. Never mind. I have a lot of notes for Joyce in that episode.

Sheesh. It actually triggered me, I think, as a child, a divorce. It's going to ask. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, I mean, we're going to talk about the many, many metaphors of season two of Buffy. But, like, what if your dad's... new boyfriend was abusive and also a robot.

Season two, introduction of the phrase Scooby. Very productive at work, though. Yeah, there you go. Introduction of the phrase Scooby Game. Yes, this was a big one for me. Did you know that? Yeah, oh yeah. And I was like, you know, sort of like Leo pointing me and like, oh my God, they said

the thing. Because I had a moment after season one where I was like, is it possible this is just a term that fans use and has never actually said in the show that that did not seem likely to me. But yes, very exciting to have it. Scooby gang and then eventually Scoobies. Like, it is an in-show sort of thing. And then among many other people, and we'll talk about those people at length, but Seth Green is here. Oz. Thrilling stuff. He's recurring this season, but that will not be the case going forward and that is very exciting. You knew Seth Green was in the show. I knew Seth Green was in the show. I did not know in what capacity or to what extent I had maybe like a vague sense, I think honestly, probably from like, you know, perhaps something that works

this way into the back of your mind of just like, as we talked about in our season one pod, while I didn't watch Bufie in real time, well, just mainline and CW, you know, WB content at the time. And I didn't call it content then because I was a child. I called it television. But, you know, so seeing a lot of commercials and stuff. And I'm sure I had like just seen him with his guitar, you know, Dingo Zay, my baby. That's like a thing I had heard. But I didn't know exactly how he was going to be deployed in the story. And what's funny is I was like, I did have a moment watching season two where I'm like, wait a minute. Then where did I know Seth Green from specifically at this moment of time?

And then, of course, I was like, ah, Scott Evil. Yeah. Which is like, you know, around the same moment in time. Correct. Mallory Rubin. Before we get into other people who joined the cast of season two of Both the Vampire Slayer. Are there other people? A couple other people we should talk about.

Yeah. How did you find the first half of season two? I thought this was great. I obviously won't say anything specific about the second chunk of season two that we'll be talking about in a couple days, which we have a lot to work through and was very impactful. I thought that these first 14 episodes were a lot of fun. I actually kind of like, I understood both from you priming me for a kind of leveling up, like a graduating into the next tier of excellence, that, you know, there was a change coming. Yeah.

In terms of just the caliber of the thing that we were watching. I actually kind of like maybe a little bit as a, like a transition phase, that there were still some bat shit. Definitely could have been in season one. Inca Mummy Girl is here. Yeah. Yeah. Reptile boy.

Episodes in this stretch, it felt like a nice acclamation into the new phase. But there are some incredible episodes. in this stretch. And we're going to talk about this a lot as we go, both in the categories, I think for sure and just in the episode snapshots that we're going to do at the top. So I won't say anything beyond just saying that Innocence, episode 14, the episode that we're ending on, is my favorite episode of the series so far. Now, I've only seen two seasons, but that is my favorite one. I thought that was incredible. And I really liked surprise into Innocence. I liked the What's My Line 2 part.

or lie to me I thought was really good. Halloween was really fun. There are a lot of great episodes. And, you know, we can segue right now into talking about the arrival of Spike and Drew because it is a rare thing in life when something is this anticipated and this hyped and somehow still manages to exceed your expectations.

Okay, so that thrills me because I was quite worried and I was just talking to our producer Carlos beforehand. He was like, I'm worried that he was like, I think maybe Spike was overhyped for me. And so I was worried that perhaps Frankly, sir, how dare you? No, no, no. But he has developed, he is ahead of us in his watch

and he has later thoughts about Spike. But he was like, in my season two experience. He's like, I was worried that, you know, I think maybe he was a little overhyped for me. I was worried that I had overhyped him for you. But James Marsters as Spike, unbelievable. William, the Bloody.

And Juliet Landau as Drusilla are here. Also very meaningful. in School Hard, Season 2, Episode 3 is their intro to this show. Just unbelievable. I had no expectations at all for Drusilla, so that was just a complete, like, delight for me. I can't wait to talk about all of the, I'll spoil something for you for our categories today. Because we're structuring the pod similarly where we have, you know, the big picture and then we're going to dive into our categories. Even by my standard.

I don't know if I've ever been this undisciplined in like pick one thing. I just couldn't because there are so many good things. I felt it was a safe space to do that. Yes, of course. Even by that standard, there is a spike category. And it is framed around the moment. I limited myself and it was hard. It was hard.

I limited myself to 20. To 20. That was disciplined. I consider that a love letter to me. Because the name of the category is like, I guess you spike quotes. It's the like 20 of them. The name of the category is like the Joanna I get it spike moment, right? You're going to hear how I got it 20 times.

20 times. I'd love to get it 20 times for Spike. Okay. Here's what Jaws Veedon said about Spike. There's a little Billy Idol, a little Kiefer Sutherland in The Lost Boys, and every guy in a black coat. I really thought the paroxy would define his face better, though James does curse my name for burning his scalp. And James Marster says many quotes about like, you're supposed to bleach hair. Well, you're not supposed to bleach hair at all.

But you're supposed to do it like every couple weeks and they had to do it every eight days. And he had like, oh my God. Well, you know what it looks great. Open wounds on his head that they like, anyway. That sounds painful and terrible, but it does. It is effective. I will say there is not, I think, a more transformative hair decision. Maybe the Eddie Munson wig on Joe Quinn.

But like. Yeah, yeah, that's a good one. Parox, like, because if you hadn't seen Joe Quinn and other things, I think you see him as Eddie Munson, and then you see him in an interview and you're like, oh, wait, is that, you know, because like, it just looks a little different. Same with James Marsters. When he had his natural brunette hair, you're like, is that Spike? Now that James Marsters is like a silver fox, all of a sudden you're just like, Spike, he's back. And let me tell you, he's heavy on the convention circuit, always in a tight black t-shirt and black jeans. He knows exactly what he's doing.

I hope so. Is he painting his nails still? I don't know. I'll have to take a closer look. Take a peek. But the silver hair is like, without the open wounds on his head, he's bringing the spike energy back. I love that eyebrow scar too. Yeah.

And that's his real scar that they like sort of enhanced it. Yeah. And then they like make it the vamp it out. Great stuff. And that's the black t-shirt that he wore to audition in. Though apparently he auditioned with like a Louisiana accent and they're like, no, we're going to have you do this. Fascinating.

British accent, which we'll talk about in a second. Spike, as we talked about on our recent villains pod. Check it out if you haven't. You should really check it out. Spoiler, Spike's on there. Was supposed to die after five episodes, but he's too popular to kill. And I told a story about that on that podcast, which you can go listen to. But he comes in, I love School Hard.

It's not one of the, like, episodes we have singled out to talk about. Though I have a reason to talk about it outside of the categories. But, like, School Hard is an incredible character introduction. He crashes into the Sunny Dark. Dale sign, the introduction of first Spike and then Drusilla wanders in, his encounter inside of the school. And I just love the way that Spike is used, and Drusilla, are used in this first half of the season because, like, unlike the master who was, like, stuck physically underground

and just had to, like, send minions out, good old fruit punchmouth, you know, like, yeah. Spike and Drusilla can like, well, less so Drusilla until she gets her strength back, can like interact with the outside world. And so you can use Spike inside of an episode like Halloween or lie to me where he's just sort of like out in the streets having a good time outside of that like main half season arc of like we need to get Drusilla better. And then the like what happens after that. You know what I mean? And so that's just like a really great way to use a villain inside of a season, I think. extra bonus in school hard, not to spoil two of my 20 quotes that I will be reading. Maybe I'll sum them out in real time for two other quotes.

But you took some fair and justified shots at the Anointed One in our season one pod. Here comes Spike. You're that anointed guy. About you. Absolutely incredible. How's the annoying one? Yeah, the annoying one. It was so hard for me to not call him the annoying one when we were talking about in season one.

I really like that anointed guy better, but they're both incredible. The annoying one is so good. The way that he just like dispatches with him and the way that like basically the writers acknowledge, we thought this would be great. It wasn't that great. But here's this much more fun guy to come and bedevil Buffy in season two. Fittingly, anything else you want to say about this or are you going to save it for your, 20 entries into the Spike category. Spike will come up a few times.

I, you know, we've had versions of this with other pods where like every category you find yourself like, oh, it's Steve again. Boy, yeah, exactly. Steve Harrington is back. Have you obviously had a lot of that with Spike where, and this is, I'm actually about to pivot away from that, but like, we have, what, 18 categories say something like that. Don't quote me on the number. I'll tell you, I have 20 spike quotes coming. well no 18 I will something those out

god damn the number of them were I immediately was like this spike fan but then I was like this Giles this Jenny thing

this Jenny thing this willow thing this buffy thing and you find yourself like in an experience falling in love with the show and a group of characters where you're like

my entire three hour podcast could be about this one person because I am so devoted to them already but also what about these 12 other people that I love and find myself so invested and so fully already.

And the ensemble nature of the show, obviously we have our Scooby gang, but then I really loved the introduction of villains that we wanted to spend as much time with this season. And, you know, I just can't wait. I'm trying hard not to say anything about the second half of this season, but I just can't wait to see what the rest of the series has in store on that front.

and Spike is sexy and cool and charming and rude and sweet and tender and funny. And there's like this like whip smart way that he moves through every conversation and every room. And I found myself like, I actually don't know if this will come up in any of my category. So probably will, but I'll say it now anyway and then repeat myself. Wouldn't be the first time. so like swept up in the Spike Drusilla relationship because there is and the judge will, I loved that moment where the judge came in and is like, you're lousy with humanity. Yeah, guys.

You stink of human emotion. Affection, jealousy. Yeah. Like they have a real thing with each other and that devotion and the care. Like those moments where Spike would just like reach out and put his hand on Drusilla's abdomen or something. Like you feel the history between them, obviously this extra information that we get that, like, Angel is their sire, leading to possibly my favorite quote of the entire show so far, which I'll bring up later. I won't spoil yet. You were my yada. You were my sire, man. Just incredible stuff. Yeah, it's just great. Really, really great. In School Hard, the way that he comes in makes fun of a vampire for claiming he was at the crucifixion, you know. eventually does talk about like enough ritual, which is like, again, a nice meta-commentary on

season one of like the master continually bringing in like, yes, we get the order of Taraka in season two, but like season one was like so many like this ancient order of vampire warriors or whatever. And Spike's like, enough of that. Right. So funny, irreverent, all these things. And then and then Drusilla wanders into that scene like a broken doll out of like a music box. And his, he's vamping.

and his vamp face melts when he sees her into his human face. And it just tells you so much immediately about who this guy is and, like, you know, calls her pets and all this other stuff like that. And it's just like Spike. What a creation. Okay. Which leads us very naturally, I think. Speaking of Spike. Into what we're calling season two accent corner thunder dome.

Yeah. This is Kendra. the vampire slayer versus Liam, aka Angel. We're just going to do Kendra this half of the season. We'll do Liam next half of the season. But this suggesting came from our listener, Maddie,

who said, can I please request a segment about the many accents we hear actors perform in the upcoming seasons? They range from impeccable, question mark Maddie, impeccable, spike to questionable, Kendra, to well, David Borianas. I would love to hear your thoughts on all of it. Oh, man.

Spike, I will just say, you know I get hung up on bad axes and stuff like that. Spike is my exception. Like, Marsters gets like kind of immediately much better than he is in school hard, but it's never like an accurate British accent. No, but it is. It's consistent. Yeah, I was going to say, it reminds me of the way we talk about something, like in a fantasy story. The rules of your universe can be whatever you want them to be. You just have to then stick to them.

Like, I feel like he understood that part of it. That's what I would always say when I would talk about, like, like Nicola Costa Waldo doing Jamie Lanister is not doing the same accent that Lena Hedy is, but he's, it's the same. Whereas Dinklage would wander all over the map and I had some problems with it. Okay. Leading us back to Kendra, the vampires, Leah. One of the worst accents that has ever existed.

Astonishing stuff. It was a last minute change for the character. and the writers have claimed that they hired a dialect coach to teach her a very specific and obscure Jamaican accent. With absolute love and respect to Bianca Lawson, who is an ageless, beautiful woman, this accent is not it. Let's hear it or see it if you're watching this video.

That's my favorite chart. That's me only chart. That's me favorite shirt. That's me only shirt is like one of my favorite lines in Buffy of all time. Anything you want to say, obviously again, we will talk about Liam next time. But anything you want to say on the Kendra front here. I think that your accent commentary summed up the feeling well. It's a perplexing decision that all parties made. In general, on the Kendra front.

Yeah. She died. technically she died. The loophole of Buffy's brief death. I mean, first of all, I liked in general, I really, really liked the way that Buffy's death and just more broadly experience with the master carried into the season.

The opening malaise and depressive state that also is kind of an angry state that we find Buffy in, very, I was going to say very hairy in order of the Phoenix, coded to me, but of course it would be the other way around. That would be very Buffy coded. I now realize, we're always all learning. You know, I love that moment when Zander said, Buffy's always been different and Willis said she's never been mean. Yeah. But like it felt right that Buffy would be affected and changed in a way that was lasting by that and then have to work

through that. Then Kendra comes in. And it's not only the like plot brilliance of saying, well, this is the way the mythology works. So when Buffy was face down in that filthy cave goo, not the last puddle of goo that we will talk about today. Certainly not. I thought that was just like really surprising and interesting and creative. And then I love thematically and from a storytelling perspective, everything that it opened up.

One of the things in general that I really liked across the stretch of episodes was the way that comps and parallels and mirrors were used. So, you know, we'll talk about Giles. A spoiler, we'll talk about Giles of a fuckload today, but obviously a big part of the Giles and Buffy journey in these 14 episodes is we have more in common than we realize, right? That's a huge part of it.

You have something like, umpada, the titular Inca Mommy Girl. She's a chosen one. This idea of the chosen one and kind of a there, but for the grace, like, how could this really, like, subsume you and you could lose yourself completely? And then Kendra comes in and Buffy has these moments like saying to Willow, I wonder if it would be so bad.

Right. To be replaced or when she's talking to Angel and she's saying, I want a normal life and then looks, and it's about Kendra and all of this, the weight of it, but then looks in the mirror. And he is not there. And he's not there. Right. And it's like, so the person you want that life with normal. What does that even mean? Right.

And when something like that sees. And of course, that's part of the point of the story. And any great story is like there's no such thing. You have to kind of reject the concept out of hand. And there is no normal, right? But that was all great. And I thought that even though Kendra was, you know, in this stretch only in a couple episodes, like it unlocked a lot of rich stuff for Buffy to chew on.

Like when Kendra said, you talk about saying like, it's a job. It's not. It's who you are. But of course, a big part of our time with Buffy to this point is that Buffy's like, I want to go on a date. Like, I'm not, I don't really get to do career fair. Like, what does that mean? And then once again, wrapping all of that up inside the high school experience of, like, career day.

Yeah. Is like, again, Buffy's, in the high school years, Buffy is like absolute genius of like, you know, inside of the stretch, we get like foreign exchange students or home at assignments or, you know, whatever it is. It's like, it must have been so fun to sit in that writer's room and say, what are the hallmarks of a typical high school experience? Fantastic.

And how can we make that a monster? And will Zander hardboil and then eat his egg? And the answer to folks was yes. That's great. He did. Honestly. He did, and he did. Great Zander move.

And, you know, on the Xander front, it's like that was one of the things with Kendra, too, that I found very affecting. Like, she is absolutely astonished, befuddled that Buffy has friends. I know. And of course, Buffy being like, you know, and she can give Kendra this lesson of, like,

my emotion, that's my strength. My friends are my power. My friends are my strength or my power, my family. Like, I thought that was all, did the accent work, it did not. But did the character. I like a lot of interesting ideas. Yeah.

I love Kendra. I love her shirt. Accent. Astonishing. Her pants. I love a lot of things about her. Accent and almost standing. And like I do think Bianca is really good.

I think the way that like also the way that Buffy is jealous of her. The way that like, Giles is proud. Right. Oh, you read the book, Volume 6. Even I couldn't get through it. It's a little stodgy. Yeah, yeah. And Buffy's like, oh God.

Shit, that's the slayer he wanted. Right, right. Yeah. Really good. Good stuff. Okay. Um, I did want to read this. email from Robert. Something I love to do when we cover

older shows is like when people write in and talk about how much this story meant to them, right? So we got a lot of those emails. So this one from Robert really got to me right, where Robert wrote, Buffy made it okay to talk funny, talk weird, talk pop, and talk in a stolen, sketchy British accent. It changed the lexicon forever. It inspired my friends and I to do our best balance, humor, and heart with the horrors of feeling inadequate, or to find a way

to stand up to the bully waiting at our locker. every day. Buffy was a monolith for my queer friends, my geek friends, my queer geeky friends. So excited to be heading on this journey again. I pulled out my box sets just in time for spooky season. I love that. Robert. What a lovely email. The way that, uh, we're going to talk in a second about, uh, Dawson's Creek, which comes along here in the second half of season two of Buffy is when I forgot that Dawson's Creek was a midseason replacement as well, uh, the way that Buffy was. As you know, my mom and I were there on day one. But like, well, you had to skip over innocence to get to day one of Dawson's.

But Dawson's changed the language as well. And there was a way in which Joss Whedon speak and Kevin Williamson speak on Dawson's just like absolutely formed the way in which we talk. The same way I think about this a lot when I hear very online people talk and they sound so much. David and Alexis from Schitts Creek. That show really impacted the way that people talk. And so they're like these things that come along. And Buffy was one of those things. There is a, it was one of my many choices for like, I don't know, favorite line or funniest moment or something like that. But like Zander saying Bittka is a very funny. But B, Bitka became a thing. You know what I mean? And so it's just sort of like you just start. That really made me laugh. It's very good. But you just start talking that way. And so, like, yeah, the way in which you can shape the way you talk. And then the way in which it just, like, story provides refuge for people who feel other alone, you know, all that sort of stuff.

So love that. Thank you so much. Keep those emails coming. Please. I read them, I cry. Also, thank you for all the emails we've gotten recently of people's cats. I mean, people always send us photos of cats and apples. And I love that for us.

Those stranger things cats. But we got some stranger things cats that were really, really good. Remarkable. All the cats you guys said are great, though. They're all queens and kings. Okay. This is a section where we talk about our favorites. Did you know about one in three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriotic arthritis,

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Crumbled bacon? Corn salsa. 40 grams of protein made to keep up with whatever comes next new sweet green wraps hit different order now at order dot sweetgreen.com we picked two episodes to highlight obviously one of them is going to be innocence it was Mallory's choice of what the other one would be well innocence was also your choice but it was like inevitable that we were talking about innocence yeah but I was like I suggested a couple but I was like which one do you want to pick we kind of together came up with and I was and I was like I was like I suggested a couple but I was like which one do you want to pick we kind of together came up with and I was I was actually surprised with this, and I'll tell you why. No. Season 2, episode 7, lie to me. Yeah. Written and directed by Joss Whedon.

And to sort of refresh your memory, I'll read the actually sort of incorrectly phrased Wikipedia summary, which is a classmate from Buffy's previous school in Los Angeles, shows up in town with a mysterious desire to meet the town's vampires and their human wannabe groupies. That's not really true. The human wannabe groupies come with Ford, but I guess Wikipedia is trying to spoil you. I don't know. But anyway, lie to me has, it was this rewatch that really elevated lie to me, which is not an episode that I actually have thought about as like a high ranking Buffy episode for me. Yeah.

That was partially inspired by just sort of like the way in which I've been thinking about the show this time through, the way which I've been anticipating getting to talk to you about it. But also my friend Jenny O' Young's who co-hosts the buffering podcast, which I talk about all the time, you know, wrote an original song for every single episode of Buffet Vampire Slayer. And like some of them I just like, not every single song has the episode title in it. I think that's true. But, you know, they get stuck in my head. Like the Inca Mummy Girl one is like really catchy. So I just like sometimes hung hum Inca Mommy Girl to myself. The Bad Eggs one is really funny because it's just her like screaming bad eggs into the mic and it's very funny.

but lie to me is one of the most beautiful songs that she's written. It's very haunting. The first first is about Angel. The second verse is about her friends. The refrains are, you know, the refrain is lie to me. You lie to me. And then the last refrain is, please lie to me. Which is like how she approaches Giles at the end of the episode.

And every time I listen to that song, which is so beautiful, I get emotional. And so I like thinking about this, the way in which Jenny's art about the show has impacted the way. that I think about this episode. And that's true for, like, you know, the way that people like recap or podcast about shows all the time. It can, like, alter your relationship to a story that you've consumed. So this is a great example of that. But something I, it's a really good song. You should listen to it.

But something that I didn't know until I was sort of digging into patterns across the seasons is that episode seven, this is episode seven. Episode sevens are sort of famously bangers across the many seasons of Buffy. You have no frame of reference outside of Angel being episode seven of season one, which you loved. My to Me, Revelations for Season 3, the initiative. Don't worry about the initiative. Fool for Love, Once More With Feeling, Conversations with Dead people. I know Once More With Feeling. Even I know that one.

That's the musical. Exactly. Yeah. So like these are like Fool for Love. Full for Love is that clip of Spike that I played for you. in the villains episode, right? And then conversation with dead people is a Drew Goddard banger. So they're not mid-season, you know, because in the 22 episode season arc, mid-season fineries were like a thing.

Sure, yeah. So what's my line part one, two, is like, you know, a mid-season finale sort of situation. So episode seven is like partway through the first half of the season. And it's sort of like, to your point about when she was bad, the first episode of this season, every season Buffy is sort of grappling with the ramifications, the fallout of the previous season. Right. So every season,

the first few episodes are this sort of like, man, that was tough, you know? I got to grind the master's bones to make my bread. You know, like it's just sort of like, I have to process this.

And then, but by season seven, we're really orienting towards what the rest of the season will be. And lie to me, especially, as a perfect partner to innocence is a really good signal of a pivot towards what's to come. Yes. Talk to me about Lidemi. First of all, Roswell Hive Rise. Yeah. Dismarer Bear. What a shock and a thrill to me. She was like, she's like, oh my God, so-and-so from Roswell. I was like, yeah, I just call him Roswell.

Like, that's all that's, that's, Colin Hanks. Colin Hanks, but that guy is just Roswell to me. That's what I was like, Roswell. Yeah. That was a very exciting thing. I, so I think that what's my line part one and part two in terms of what we've already talked about with Kendra and those parallels and everything, what it led Buffy to think about with her career, her life, sacrifice, but also like power and responsibility, etc. That's significant, undeniably. But I think what I really loved about lie to me is the maybe slightly subtler significant. of how the story explores the idea of trust. And, you know, we've talked about this in many other stories. This has come up in, like, Black Mirror Pods. Part of why I find, like, shut up and dance actually, like, unbearable to watch. This question of, like, and now, Ford is somebody from Buffy's past.

It's not like this is Willow or Zander or Giles, somebody who is this embedded in her life currently revealing themselves to be something. other than what she knew them to be. But we get that too. And so it's connected to this larger through line of this stretch of this season of like secrets from the past and some sort of masked intention or hidden identity. You have the Jenny reveal. You have the Giles Ripper reveal. You have then Ford. And it's again, it's a different thing. But it's all, there's a little bit of this flavor of like, wait, do I know who anybody is? Do I know what they, either what was in their past or what might be driving them now to make a certain decision. And with Buffy and Ford, there's this like,

there's a little bit of the, oh, this hot dude who I used to listen to it. I judge myself while missing iconic scene. Willow being like, oh, that's what that's about. Just great stuff. You know, he comes in, he's cute, he's fun, they're flirting, Xander's jealous, and there's some, amid all the turmoil and the chaos of like, where do I fit not only in high school or in the great canon of fabled slayers, but just in my own skin, in my own life.

And then there's something familiar and comfortable that can anchor you. And then that person is a source of disruption. So I just really liked this like, and I like that Ford, even though he is the cause of that also we get a moment where he can call Buffy out on her bullshit a little bit, right? Which is also important. Like when he's like, sorry, did I like interrupt your righteous riff by telling you why I'm doing? this, you know? And I think that that's obviously an important part of Buffy's development, too, is understanding whether it's for good or ill, what drives other people. Everybody has their own

shit. So I just thought that was really interesting. And it surprised me when he showed up, obviously, you're like, something's going on. But it surprised me how, because he's only there for one episode, how, like, lasting those takeaways and lessons felt. And then I just also, like, because obviously we have the Buffy Angel relationship, and then you have immediately your draw as a viewer to spike. But still, it's like the vampires are the ones we're fighting. And then, you know, you have something that simultaneously is more traditional, but inside of this story a little bit more foreign,

of like the lust and the longing, the people who are like, actually I crave this, you know, the Guillermo, like, what we're doing in the shadows, when will you just turn me? And obviously Ford has his reasons. but I thought it was interesting to get that kind of like different energy. It makes sense to me that when the supernatural is this prevalent that there would be a club where people stood around in laughable as is called out. Yeah, capes and say like I want to live forever. So I just thought the episode was overall really, really fun and really good.

I think that I love everything you just said. And I think that brings up a couple things. One, the groupies, shout out Chantelle, shout out all of them, similar to Spike coming in and making fun of the stiff, like, ritual, fuddy-duddiness of the Anointed One's reign or Spike in school hard saying, are they still falling for that Anne Rice bit? But, you know, the show is engaging in what are your ideas of a vampire story, right? And so we're here to say this is not your mother's vampire story, right? Like, this is not a vampire story that you've seen before. We're going to make fun of that kind of over-the-topness, while being very over-the-top of ourselves. You know what I mean?

Have our cake and eat it too. But like, we're going to quote, we're going to have our villain of the week, quote, Bram Stokey. Yeah. It's just great. Great touch. Yeah. But also the seeds it plants for innocence. Yes.

The way in which it is a like very, you know, Ford is just here for one episode. One and dusted, right? And like he, unlike, it's a one-off episode that like, yeah, they grab the book that comes into play later and like, you know, Willow invites Angel in and that, you know, is something that may come up and stuff like that. Like there are things that happen. And unlocking Angel lore is part of that Angel's relationship to Drusilla. But it is still fundamentally a standalone episode. And unlike love and respect, ink a mommy girl or reptile boy or praying mantis or et cetera, et cetera. It's not like a kitchy, funky little like monster.

The weak one, it is like profoundly deep, impactful roots. The introduction of the people you trust the most can hurt you the most. obviously, this small-scale version of Ford leading up to the gigantic seismic angel thing that happens in innocence. Coupled with learning about what Angelus did to Drusilla, coupled with that little fake preview we get of him in School Hard, which is already David Boriana is having a lot of fun. A great little taste of how much fun he'll have playing Angelus going forward. were primed for Angelus to appear. We know how cruel, unnecessarily cruel he was.

We didn't just read about it in a book. We see the evidence of it in Drusilla. And we know how fun he can be. We've seen the taste of it in school hard. And all of that's in the mix here. And we get, you know, this exchange between Angel and Buffy where he says, do you love me? And she says, do you?

She says, I love you. I don't know if I trust you. And he said, maybe you shouldn't do either. And once we've watched Anderson's, we're like, Yeah. Right. He's right. But you would not ever be able to tell Buffy that at this moment.

Sure. So it's just an incredible episode. And then like the closing Giles. The best. Exchange. This season really looking at it as a whole, which I've never done in this way before, lie to me, the dark age, the Giles sort of Ripper episode. And innocence.

And then we could talk about the rest of the season. later, but like all end with these like exchange of. Yes. Buffy to Giles, giving each other grace and comfort and support. Yes. And it is completely earned and never outstays, it's welcome. And it's always just like, this scene with them standing over Ford's grave right before she stakes him.

Do you want to talk about it? I thought this was lovely. I like that like a couple episodes before this in episode five, Willow calls out both Giles an angel. Good old reptile boy. I got a lot of takes on reptile boy. You're killing her with the pressure. I mean, she's 16 going on 40 and you're going to live forever.

You don't have time for a cup of coffee. And Giles building towards saying, you know, from now on, no more pushing, no more prodding. Just an ordinate amount of nudging because he is who he is in his role in her life is what it is. But also this kind of like acknowledgement, especially because we will have in the dark age and the Ripper reveal like the overwhelming pressure of my death. is a thing Giles will say about his own experience and the weight of his own role to play in the greater course of affairs. So in general across the season and like the the conversation at the end of innocence is like the best moment of these episodes other than all of the Jenny Giles moments, all of which will be reflected in my categories today. Some great Jenny Giles stuff and lie to me as well.

But a pin in it will be coming back to it. But when they're standing there and Buffy says things ever simple anymore. I'm constantly trying to work it out. Who will love or hate? Who to trust? And it's just like, the more I know, the more confused I get. And you're waiting for the person on the other end of that line and that conversation to say like, no. What does Giles do? He says, I believe that's called growing up, right? And, you know, we talk about this all the time. And Blink 1-82 is like, we should make a song. Man, I went through a real Blink 1182 face. I bet you did. Boy, you know, when genre of stories can just hit something that is so core to the experience of growing up, and this is why often, I mean, we love many forms of genre stories,

but a coming of age story inside of a genre story is just the richest text. And Buffy's like, I'd like to stop then, okay? I know the feeling. Does it ever get easy? You mean life? Yeah, does it get easy? What do you want me to say? Lie to me.

Yes, it's terribly simple. The good guys are always stalking. word and true. The bad guys are easily distinguished by their pointy horns or black hats and we always defeat them and save the day. No one ever dies and everyone lives happily ever after. And I love the way in general the two of them, even when they're slightly at odds or slightly out of tune or their ambition in a given moment is a little bit distinct from the other. They always say the true thing to each other. And so to frame it as lie to me when in the process, then of saying this falsely cheerful thing, what are you actually doing? You're saying the true thing,

which is like your life is never going to be easy. It's always going to be hard. You're never going to know who you can trust. When you love somebody that will turn into hate and when you hate somebody, maybe it'll grow into love because that's what it means to be alive and that's what it means to have people in your life, whether you're the Slayer or not. And the relationship that they have, I mean, it continues to be my favorite thing in the show. Like obviously, I really, very bad, when I watch Jenny and Giles together want them to have sex and I would like to watch it.

That is a powerful feeling that I have while watching this television show. The thing that I care about as well is, and I think, you know, what's interesting is like, I alluded earlier to being like a child of divorce and I think maybe Ted actually like poking at some,

oh my God, like, like when Joyce is like, you know, it's not always easy to like date when you're a single mom, right? stuff like that. I'm like, maybe part of that. But I'm like watching those episodes and a lot of these episodes this season. And I'm like, I would actually like a little bit more from Joyce in terms of supporting Buffy. But then I look at it and I try to look at it from Joyce's perspective. And I'm like, well, she doesn't have, she's not a possession of all the facts. And so what is she

seeing? What does she think? And then now I'm spoiling another one of my picks. But like, then you build towards something like Buffy and her lowest low and the fact that she goes from that conversation with Giles in the car, which is again my favorite moment. far into that moment with Joyce on the couch, just leaning against her. And they're in their softest clothing. In their pajamas, watching TV, talking about the time to go shopping. And like, Buffy feels so different and so changed in so many ways by this experience. And Joyce is like, you look the same to me. Because it's her kid. Yeah. You know, like, it's just the best. And so that paternal presence that Giles can provide, you've, even by your standard, really

expertly named a couple categories today on this front. Without not, it doesn't diminish from our ability to like process and think about the Joyce Buffy relationship, it kind of enhances it because that's part of it too is like you find family in different forms. It doesn't necessarily mean you don't care about like that other person right there in your living room. It's just maybe someone else is giving you something you need. So I just think that's all great inside of the show. And I love that moment with with Giles and Buffy at Ford's grave. And also I should say Ford's his outfit, his burial outfit was really good.

Who dressed him? Why did they bury him in Sunnydale? Don't his parents live somewhere else? Really good question. Who buried him? Who paid for the headstone? Who dressed him? Great question. I have some questions. No answers.

I love everything you just said is so beautiful. I love the way which Buffy is queer-coded, but you can code it however you want to in terms of like feeling like other, feeling like you have a secret that you need to keep from your parents. Yes. And so wanting to connect with Joyce, but feeling like you can't tell her everything that is true about you. And what that does to their relationship. It's not just the typical, like, mom, you're so strict or anything like that. There's just, like, a profoundly substantial part of Buffy's life.

Who she is, yeah. Who she is. Yeah. That Joyce doesn't know about. out. Right. And so thank God Giles is here. Yeah. But like, you know, okay. Let's talk about season two episode 14, innocence, which we've already kind of started talking about. Yeah, we talked about quite a bit. This is a fucking banger. Written directed by Jaws Sweden. Again, both of these episodes written and directed by Jaws Sweden. After Buffy shares an intimate moment

with Angel, which extinguishes great language, his human soul, she is left with a realization that she must destroy the now evil angel who has transformed into his previous persona of Angelus. Meanwhile, Giles' relationship with Jenny Callender takes on a new twist when he discovers that she is a member of the gypsy family who gave Angel his human soul. Very tough. Romani, the Romani are here. And Willow's hopes of a relationship with Xander are dashed when she discovers Zander and Cordelia's secret romance. Fun facts to know about how this all unfold, because, Because we get, like, Surprise and Innocence are basically a two-parter,

and I don't know why they weren't named, like, Innocence Part 1 and Part 2, the way that What's My Line is Part 1 and Part 2. I don't, you know, or the finale of this season is a two-parter. Surprise aired on a Monday, which was Buffy's, like, previous night. And then Innocence aired the next day on Tuesday, because Buffy is moving to Tuesday nights, which is where it will stay for the rest of its room. Tuesday is like iconically the Buffy night.

There's a line from later. There's a line from later in the show many seasons later. And I won't even say the character's name because that feels. But like blanks in trouble must be a Tuesday is like a line from Buffy. It's just sort of like we know that Tuesday nights are Buffy nights, right? It's also the introduction of like, so this is the introduction of Buffy's move to Tuesday night. It's a back-to-back showing of very consequential. storytelling.

It is the series premiere of Dawson's Creek. Holy shit. Is that Tuesday. Buffy, Innocence at 8 o'clock, season one episode one of Dawson's Creek, 9 o'clock. That Buffy episode, Innocence, is the highest rated, most eyeballs on it, episode of Buffy ever. Wow. Which astonished me.

But finding out that it aired back to bed, like you're ramping up money. Sunday night into Tuesday night that you've got this like hotly anticipated. I don't know why everyone was like excited about Dawson's Creek before it air, but you and I both were there. Night one. Yeah. Night one. Night one.

I remember it while. On the creek. Oh yeah. You know? So like it was blocked with Dawson's ending like in the next season, Dawson's moves to Wednesday. Felicity moves into that block. It becomes part of this like WB teen block programming. Right?

We're just sort of like we're locking you down in the middle of the week to spend. to spend time with these teens eventually Roswell will come along, etc., etc. Jack and Jill. Jack and Jill, Montreale, etc., etc.

This one, one of only two creative arts Emmys the show would ever win for makeup on the judge, I guess. Bizarre. That would be my guess. Everything about what you just said

is bizarre to me. Buffy. Wow. Won two creative arts Emmys for this season, the makeup on the judge and then score later in the season. Okay.

And then it was only, Only ever nominated for one primetime Emmy, and it was for a writing for a season four episode, which we'll talk about in a bit. Which season four episode? Why would I tell you? I just want to know if it's one of the ones I know. Which ones do you know? Well, I don't remember if this is season four and season five. I only know a few, I know a few titles.

Tell me a title. So there was like once more with feeling which we're already talking about. Hush? It's hush. Is it hush? Yeah. There you go. Okay.

Look at me. Just absorbing things. You know the osmosis. You know what they mean. at all. Did you notice that Brian Thompson, who plays Luke, he's very large in season one, is also the judge? You know what?

I didn't notice, and I feel like, frankly, given the amount of time we've started talking about not just Luke, but specifically how large he is and how tight his outfits are, I probably should have noticed. Without you having to draw my attention to it, but I didn't. Brian Thompson. Maybe I was distracted by the horns. Let's go with that. Sure.

Yeah. This is, uh, there will be another actor who will show up as like two different monsters on the, on the show. Um, but yeah, anyway, we'll talk about that later.

This is one of them in Hush. No. How about once more of the feeling? Nope. This is Joss's favorite episode of the series. I mean, I have a lot more to watch, but it, this is my number one right now.

This is just the, like, I don't know. I would go buy a lottery ticket the day I came up with this idea. We're going to have Buffy and Angel have sex for the first time. And in some really fun prophecy writing, one true moment of happiness means an orgasm. Yeah. I think an orgasm with a person you love is sort of the idea. Like he can have other orgasms and he may perhaps he has. But orgasms with the person you love one true moment of happiness.

and now Borianas gets to play a villain. This is a huge decision because as we discussed in season one, Borianas is like not the best actor on the show. I think he's the worst actor in season one of the regular actors, right? Easily. And is better in season two, but is phenomenal as I'm jealous. Incredible.

And again, we got a taste of that in school hard when he does. the little like pretend bit with Spike, but they have to have already come up with this idea by the time they shot school hard. And so banking that Boreannas could like make a meal out of this and it absolutely pays off. And I just like, I would just like to imagine teenage me. Oh, Jesus. Yeah.

Watching surprise end when Buffy's let, when, when Angels out in the alley and he's like, Buffy and you're like, what's going to happen? to Angel, oh my God. And then we open innocence with him not only killing this woman, but killing this woman, sucking the smoke out of her throat and blowing it out. The smoke was one of the true genius touches that I've ever seen in TV to, like, really cement for us what we were watching and what was happening. Obviously, we know he has, like, abstained from human blood and human killing.

And so just in theory, killing that woman and drinking her blood should have been enough, but it was the smoke. It was the excelling smoke. It's funny to be. I really, like, surprised. I thought that was a really good episode as well. But I actually did have a moment when it, you know, there's the lightning and the rain. He kind of pops out of bed.

And he goes out, he's clearly like in agony. You know, it falls to the ground, like a little bit of like a Shawshank, you know, in the rain, down to my knees gif. And I'm like, if he's in that much pain, why did he stop to put on clothes? I was like, what is going on here? What is actually happening? I was like a little confused. All questions and concerns went away the second that Innocence started. And there's a lot of amazing, like you said, we've talked about a lot of it already actually. But broadly, in some of the pods we did before we actually started your rewatch, my first watch and did our season one pod. You know, we talked about

this a lot with our Stranger Things coverage. And then you beautifully sketched out in our season one pod, how Buffy is like, you know, there are a lot of texts that do this, but like, the text for high school as hell. High school as hell. Yeah. For something about the experience of growing up or making your way through life in this heightened supernatural form. There have been a lot of good versions of it already on the show, and I'm sure there are many

to come. But this is, this is it. This is unbelievable. Yeah. The idea that falling in love with somebody, that taking that step, losing your virginity, having sex with somebody for the first time, being intimate with somebody for the first time, it's scary. And it's scary in a lot of ways.

But one of them, of course, is like, what if, like, we have sex and then they're not interested in me anymore, right? What if I am rejected? What was this all an act? What if that's what it was for? To get me into bed. Right. And then he's gone.

and then when he returns, he says the things that you would be dreading hearing, right? I should have known you wouldn't be able to handle it. You have a lot of things to learn about men. Oh, I thought you were a pro. Oh, my God. And when she goes, I love you. And he goes, love you.

Love you. As he's heading out, that was savage. Yeah. So I think just like the idea of taking something where you're opening yourself off to hurt and rejection in so many different ways. and you make yourself that vulnerable, and then this happens. Just inside of the Buffy Angel relationship, that would be incredible. Some of my favorite things in the episode, though, are watching Buffy with the other people in her life because she's so ashamed.

Willow figuring it out. That moment with Willow because Willow's like, Giles, shut up. Like, she figures out what's happened. And then, of course, when the little light bulb goes off for Giles, like, well, how would you know? Oh. Right. And these people know things about Buffy that like we just talked about a few minutes ago, her mother doesn't know, right? They understand something about her and her purpose and her role in this community, in life, in the world. This is not a thing she feels she can share with them because it's so private. And in that moment, to her, it feels not only so hurtful, but so humiliating. And like the way that that was explored, because there are so many different things in your life that can make you feel that way. I just thought was like really beautiful and moving and really expertly done. And like I also just thought in terms of like the artistry of the episode, you know something like moving into this.

I don't remember exactly where it was like the middleish of the episode where there's this like very sexy slow-mo flashback to. Silksheets and clotted rings is what I call. Yes. Angel with red bedding, by the way, is just another expert note. Where silk sheets and cloddering, where someone has, like, hit the light above the bed, so it's just sort of swinging around. Swinging lights, very gentle, calibrated moaning.

Tasteful. And then it just, like, shrieks into horror prophecy again, right? And, like, all of those aspects in the episode, too, just really fantastic. I just thought this was, like, and I love the other thing that they, like, in terms of weaponizing that closeness, when Angel says to kill this girl, you have to love her. An all-time line of the show. To kill this girl, you have to love her is an insane line. Knowing someone is what allows you to hurt them. The, again, which is like, was the ground was laid for us and lie to me. And I think that, like, so thank you so much. It means so much to me

to watch you talk about Buffy in general, but innocence specifically. Again, I was 16 when I watched this so it was just like... I wish I had had that experience truly, genuinely. The writing of this episode is just like out of control. Really good. Great. Because like, everything you're talking about plot-wise is incredible. To, you know, to kill this girl you have to love her is just like an all-time great line. But even like Uncle Enos, shout out to Vincent Schiafelli, who I always think of as the subway ghost from ghost, but he's been in a million things.

I won't do the accent. Maybe I will. No, I will. I think you should. I don't know. The Romani get enough problems in this episode, I'm sure. But to the modern man, vengeance is a verb and idea, payback one thing for another. Like commerce, not with us. Vengeance is a living thing.

It passes through generations. It commands. It kills. So good. Like, that's so good. But this is also, this is the most. dramatic, profound, like, watching Buffy, like, sort of, like, collapse against a wall and whimper and give, like,

a thousand-yard stare after, like, her first encounter with, like, really, really ungealous in the school. And then, you know, the fight that we get in, in the mall. But then there's comedy bits, too. There's, like, the great bit of Xander retaining his military knowledge from Halloween, which is an ongoing bit in the show, and it's, like, tremendously good. And this is something that Whedon said from the DVD commentary. The two things that matter the most to me, emotional resonance and rocket launchers.

Party of five, a brilliant show and often made me cry uncontrollably, suffered ultimately from a lack of rocket launchers. So like, speaking of prophecy language, shout out to no weapon forged. Buffy. Buffy on the like, you know, mall kiosk with the rocket launcher, an all-time iconic Buffy visual. Yeah. The judge saying, what's that to? And then Angel and Drusilla jumping, like, fuck you, jumping out of the way. And Buffy just like letting her rip is just like, you know, and then thanking Xander for getting her like the best birthday gift and stuff like that.

Like the show has always something funny to do inside of something extremely painful and poignant, you know. Does looking at guns make you want to have sex? I'm 17 looking at Linolium. Makes me want to have sex. It was pretty high on my list of incredibly amusing things. Zander set this season. It's astounding how much they put inside of this episode because everything we've described has not even like really touched upon the Jenny reveal, which you already mentioned,

but like happens inside of this episode, right? Giles saying, like, get out to Jenny. Like, you know, all the sorts of like that. Tough. The Oz and Will. Willow stuff. Oz and Willow in the van outside of the Army base. Love. Love. Love. The way, okay, the slow roll out of Oz. Yeah, really good. But like, who is that girl in a Incomami girl? Of course. Yeah. The repeated, who is that girl in Halloween? You know, leading up to their What's My Line encounter. They, you know, they're both very smart, you know, like all of that. And then, like, her rousey. And then, like, her rousy. wrapped up in her Xander and Cordelia stuff, the like, she's devastated by this.

And then he, like, lets her down in the most beautiful way, but in the way that he's just sort of like, but I'm in this for the long game. I want this, but I want it correctly. Incredible. You really, you live your whole life waiting to meet someone like Oz. It's a thing that I believe. See, in my fantasy, when I'm kissing you, you're kissing me. It's okay.

I can wait. Oh, Oz is very important to me. Oh, my God. I love Oz. And then that little, just that smile on Willow's face, that appreciation of like actually being worth it to somebody, like, just lovely, lovely. Also worth mentioning that Buffy kicks Angel and the Nards and we all cheer.

It's a very important moment instead of the episode. His reaction to that was really funny. Really, really funny. Oh, really good. I love that. It fights in the mall, too, with the sprinklers going. Like, all of that is really good. Can I just say back on the bronze beat?

It's been too long since we've mentioned the brons. Nothing could have prepared me for the, like, well, if I were going to line up, I know where I'd go. And it not being the bronze. Back to the bra. No. We're at the mall. Quest for Camelot is out in theaters. You've got to go see it.

I can't believe it. We got a couple emails from listeners who I guess, checked in on us talking about Battle Star over on the Prestige podcast, right? Who were on the hooked front. Hell yeah. This is a series we did over on the Prestige TV podcast where we talked about like the episode of a show that it hooked you. Yeah.

Our listener, Tyler, was like, it's innocence. Right? And makes a good point for why it's innocence. That's very deep into the show to pick. Mallory's like, I picked a season one finale. You went all the way halfway through season two? I picked a season one finale

and then spent the entire podcast But start with the mini series. It's all great. And then our listener, Stacey also asked, like, what would you recommend? And I would say, like, you know, you're a completist, so you're going to start S1E1. Like, that's what you're going to do, right? Come on. Remember when you made me a spreadsheet color-coded of, like, the 50, 47 Doctor Who?

Before I knew you. That was before I knew you. Now I know, not to even bother. You're going to watch them all. And all of Angel, I know that. But when will I watch Angel? It's a great question. Stay tuned.

Oh, man. I would say if, because we got emails from listeners saying, like, it's, I'm having a, it's the premise of hooked. I'm having a hard time. Right. Getting someone I care about to get into Buffy because season one's a little janky and, you know, it looks a little old and a little, like, dated and all the sort of stuff like that. Yeah.

I would suggest, and this might be my spike bias. Giles edit on TikTok. Think about it. That's very unbrand for Mallory. I'm brave for me. I'm going to say school hard. I actually think it's school hard. I don't think it's season two episode one because season two episode one is so dependent on you understanding season one.

But season one episode three is school hard. The introduction of Spike. Everything, the like, Buffy crawling through the vents, diehardness of that Joyce showing. Like everything that happens in that Cordelia is really funny in school hard. Like, that is, I think, a really good introductory. You don't need to know the mythology to understand what's going on here. You just, you get to luxuriate in Principal Snyder. Yeah.

PCP! Was that fun for you? You're like, oh, Snyder knows. There's like, there's a conspiracy of foot. So before the, was this before we started recording or was this on Mike? I can't remember. It's the same pot. Carrie.

Was it before the pod that you asked me if I, how much I was like treading with care? with Googling stuff. Yeah. So that's an example where I'm like, I just want to Google. How does Principal Snyder knows? Like, what's going on? What does Snyder know?

Is he like a part of an organization? Like, what's going on? Because this is new to me that he is like in, has a certain level of understanding of what is transpiring and that also so do other people like that detective is talking to, right? So that's very interesting. And it took a lot of willpower to not look into that further.

Because I was like, actually in part, because I was really palmed that I had missed something. Oh, yeah. And then I was like, just, you know, let it play out. So on the hooked front, would you consider if there were like a diehard football fan in your life like Jenny Callender? Oh, some assembly required. Some assembly required. Like, just wait until you watch Darrell Ron.

How did you feel about his mom crushing tape on Darrell? I mean, I felt pretty captivated. I was. I can't believe we got this far without. saying some assembly required. I know. I really, also, I enjoyed seeing the Sunnydale football uniforms featured so prominently like a real, you know, we had seen obviously in season one, dodgeball, et cetera, cheerleading.

You know, it's a real USC color scheme, but like you really got to see it out on the out on the field there. I do have some questions about the offense that they were running with Darrell, you know, based on some of the third and long insights that we got. But I'm content to let that be. Okay. I think that Daryl's mom, that was actually pretty sad that she was just watching highlights of her not dead actually, reanimated kid and not looking, you know, a few feet to the left where there were a lot of signs that don't come in this basement. I have turned Daryl into the creature. The epidemic of high school football concussions was an undead zombie story.

Sprinkleing a little rock climbing and you got an episode. There you go. All right. Anything else you want to say about Innocence before we go into our... I'll return to it in a few of my categories. So we'll, as I'm sure you will. We'll come back to it. But no, I think it was just beautiful and like very... I don't think it is an overstatement to say it was like profound, truly. So I really, really loved it. I love rewatching it, but I was like pretty breathless after watching it for the first time. Like I texted you right away. I'm like, that was my favorite episode. So, yeah, I'm excited to continue to go back to it in, like, the full context of the character journeys. My impression, too, of your rewatch of season two, you're such a pro that you've already

watched the season twice, is I think you... The episodes we're talking about today. Yeah. I think you liked surprise better the second time, perhaps knowing what it's leading into for innocence. Because I feel like when we first talked to you were like, innocence, oh, my God, blah, blah. And I was, I think I was asking some questions. about surprise and you're like, yeah, that's fine. But I think once you like know what's coming,

yeah, all of that like doom swirling around it is. Yes, definitely. Very special. Okay. Really great. All right. So these are our perhaps 18, who's to say, superlatives that we have rewarded. A lot of the same ones that we've deleted a few and added a few. So, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm excited. Let's start. I'm, I also have many smuggles for this. This is like, it's, it's It's a near impossibility to. I mean, frankly, it would be a farce to even pretend like we could limit ourselves to one for most of this. I did for some. But for many, I did not. And we have a couple clips, not a ton, but a couple clips. Okay. So, let's start with a classic favorite line. How could you pick just one? But what do you got? Okay. So this is an interesting one where, like, I did not put, I think I only have one nominee here that also appears in another category. So it's self-selected a bit because I actually saved this for last. Like, I want. I wanted to do my spike moment first. I wanted to do my Cordelia.

Yeah, funniest moment, emotional moment. Exactly. All that said, I have a pretty robust selection. Okay, so here's, I'll rapid fire them, and then we can maybe pick together or I'll in real time feel what, like, moves me to name it champ. Favorite line. Okay, season two, episode two, some assembly required. I don't know why I'm laughing.

This is actually really sweet. This is Angel Saint-Buffie. Yeah, but he's in your life. He gets to be there when I can't. Take your classes, eat your meals. hear your jokes and complaints, and here's the line. He gets to see you in the sunlight. That rocked me.

Holy shit. He gets to see you in the sunlight. Angel, technically you could too. You just have to be in the shade while you're watching her. I thought that was lovely. And you get kind of like, you play off that idea and humorous moments like Willow saying, like, no, you can, like, not during the day, but like there was something so just simple and lovely and heartbreaking about that idea.

and the distance between them. Another banger of an episode, season two, episode five, reptile boy. Told you, I have some reptile boy content coming. Willow suggesting asking Angel for coffee and saying, okay, sure, it's hot and bitter like a relationship. Bangor. Fucking love that. Really good.

Really good. This is my repeat. I have this coming also in my robust set of Cordelia offerings. But I couldn't leave it out here because this is incredible. Season 2, episode 6, Halloween. Cordelia saying, look, Buffy,

you may be hot stuff when it comes to demonology or whatever, but when it comes to dating, I'm the Slayer. You texted that to me. You love that. I loved that.

That was so good. Very good. Lie to me, season two, episode seven, Giles saying to Buffy, you're not by any chance for betraying your secret identity

just to impress cute boys, are you? Oh my God. That was great. Fair question. Also, who among us? Season 2, episode 8, the dark age, Buffy's saying, I think he was drinking. Jenny saying he was home alone drinking and then Willis saying, but tea, right?

I guess I could put that in funny's moment, but it is actually such a heavy scene. I don't know if this will actually come up today, so let me just take the opportunity now to say, how deeply I appreciated getting this many glimpses into Giles' home life, even in harrowing circumstances. I now know what kind of pajamas he wears. I know what his bedding looks like. really did some serious freeze frame action to try to get a closer look at the nightstand. Didn't get the insights that I wanted, but maybe one day. Dare dream.

And then the whiskey bottle, the lamp, all of it just... It's a great set. Fantastic. Season two, episode 10, what's my line part two? This I understand is iconic, right? This was a fun one where I'm like, I've heard a line that is iconic. This is how I felt about the beat me line in season one. You can attack me.

You can send assassins after me. That's fine, but nobody messes with my boyfriend. Nobody messes with my boyfriend. Very good. Same episode. I got a real kick out of child saying. There are 43 churches and Sunnydale seems a little excessive. I just, I don't know.

I love that. This was a great Buffy line when Kendra says, did anyone explain to you what secret identity means? And Buffy said, Nope, must be in the handbook right next to the chapter on personality room. fucking savage loved it. Surprise,

season 2, episode 13, surprise. I enjoyed Buffy saying fixation on insignificant detail is a definite crush sign. I got a real kick out of even though I love Giles speaking beautifully and eloquently and poetically. I really enjoyed when Zander was like, again, so many words! Get you just say we're in trouble? And then Giles says, go to class, Sandra.

He says, gone. Notice the economy of phrasing, simple, direct. That was great. The uncle anios if this girl gives him one minute a happiness, it's one minute too much. Angel saying about what if Buffy's like, what if we die? And he says, you can't know Buffy, nobody can. That's just the deal. Only two left.

Not to derail this, and I don't mean to. But something I forgot to talk about in our innocent stretch was... Tell me. Does the Calderas tribes curse make a ton of sense to you? So they never considered that an in-souled vampire could possibly feel a moment of happiness. But why would that be the thing? But then there's that moment where he's like, and then I realized it was always like this, it was designed that way, right? So if you, if he, so he's torn.

He asked the curses that I think I wound up understanding it thusly. He, the curses that he will be tormented because he is allowed to feel. He is forced to feel. Right. And so he carries the weight of. all of these horrible things and also is constantly like confronted by suffering. We got a lot of brooding. A lot of brooding.

Then because his soul is restored and he can actually feel attachment, he can grow to love somebody like Buffy. Then he can know when he blows his loads such a moment of bliss and euphoria and deep. And I mean deep connection to somebody. Yeah. That he's like, oh, my God. Pure. Pure happiness.

And then he, because the curse became a blessing for a moment. And he was allowed to feel joy instead of to suffer. It undoes itself and he's a bad guy again. Here's my note. Here's my note for the Romani. How about he dies? He experienced a moment of true happiness. The little.

death and then the final death. Little death is a big death. Why would we unleash and jealous on the world again? Well, I like, that's a, that's a, you've raised an interesting point and an interesting question, which is that they have. That's my main question. They have actually positioned him to do to others what he has done to them. It's a good note and it is one that they should consider if they're receiving feedback.

Unfortunately, Anios is dead, so. Yeah, he got the, wasn't good for you. Scrawled above the bed in blood. That's a tough one. Very, you know, we're not interested in justice. We're here for vengeance. Like, very R-Pats. Matt Reeves.

Yes. Man coded. So I liked that. I, we already, the other two that I have, we already shared, which is the judge saying, you two stink of humanity. Yeah. You share affection and jealousy. And then the other, the other uncle, quote, the one you already read, the vengeance is a

urban idea one. So those are my many nominees. I don't know if I could pick. What's yours? Okay. Or what are yours? I have two, like, funny-ish ones and then one, like, serious one. So I have three.

Paltry. Incredible restraint. Paltry. This one always just, like, makes me laugh a lot. Principal Snyder says, There are some things I can just smell. It's like a sixth sentence. And then Giles says, no, actually, that would be one of the five.

So good. Yeah. Great. And then Giles in Ted says the subtext here is rapidly becoming text, which is something that is very useful to use in any kind of conversation. Love that. But my like, my like, juicier one. Yeah. Is from lie to me. Hmm. Buffy says to Ford, you have a choice. You don't have a good choice, but you have a choice. I love that. That's a great one. I love that line. That's a great one. I love that line. What are you, what are you thinking? thinking you don't have to choose. Now I want to pick that one. I really love that one.

I feel like I should pick a Buffy line here. Because I have Cordelia and Giles and like everyone else elsewhere. Maybe I'll go with nobody messes with my boyfriend. Yeah. That was fucking great. That's iconic. Yeah, let's go with that one. Nobody messes with my boyfriend.

All right. Best villain of the week in the rules here is it's like a one and done sort of thing. So if you wanted to, you could pick, you know, Impata herself or is that is that where you pick? Who did you pick? We can move through this in 10 seconds because we've already talked about it. I'm picking forward. I'm picking forward. Yeah. For all the reasons we discussed. And Potta's a great runner-up. I got Inca Mummy Girl gets quietly a banger. Well, we'll come back to that. Okay. Oh, actually, the only other thing I'll add about Ford is just I thought that this quote, a couple more days and we'll get to do the two things. Every American teen should have the chance to do, die young and stay pretty. Yes. So good. For our future WB star, a very, a very good line. really, really good. And yeah, I just, I'll be thinking forever about Willow saying, oh, so that's what that song is not incredible. All right. Best fit. Oh, man. This is tough without visuals to share with people. It's a, it's a really rich opportunity here.

Oh, I'm having a real time new idea. Let me find. Hmm. Hmm. I'm going to hit you with some. Okay. There are a lot. we get the first we only get it for a bit here midseason Drusilla's red costume very good

after we're done with the long white nighty situation into the red costume Kendra's prophetic tiny top big pants combo way ahead of its time

that's me only shirt it's a good shirt willows ghost of what exactly a Halloween costume incredible. The ghost of what exactly is one of my all-time favorite Giles lines, honestly. So good.

And then, but actually I think my number one, and I can't remember if I nominated them in season one. She wears them multiple time. I can't remember if it's also in season one. The giraffe pants. She wears them in surprise. She wears them. Reptile boy.

In reptile boy. The draft pants. It's really good. They're so iconically. That's what I thought you were going to pick because we texted about them. Yeah, yeah, the giraffe pants. Very. And it's actually like, I'm.

Obviously, Buffy does sometimes repeat after. I'm always like, oh, Zander's wearing his plaid pants again. Like, but Buffy, and this is, of course, you had told me there would be some explanations coming, and then we got them. Like, her dad was like, water all this shit. Yeah. She has so many outfits. I almost don't know how to process it.

The repeating giraffe pants, it really anchored me. Yeah. Like, if you had these and you were 16 and turning 17, you would wear them again. It'll come back up, but, like, Willow has multiple backpacks in this season. And that's like, that one is like, I had the same backpack for like, oh, dude. You rocked for a while. Then the LLB in era came. Yeah, I stuck with the Jansport.

Interesting. You never did the monogram to LLB. No, but I did, I did a main pocket, little pocket, Jansport. And then I moved into double side pocket Jansport. Yes, yes. So. Same, actually. My, what would it be, what we call it cranberry?

Yeah. I think a cranberry jansport. When that double pocket crameter. When the zipper tore, when I wore it into the ground, it was actually like, I'm like getting sad. They got like an end of something meaningful. Then I moved on. And that's part of what you have to do. But yeah, Jan Sports, should I get a backpack?

I was just talking about this thing. You should. You should definitely get a backpack. And so I've ordered a couple Carhart totes that zip. You usually have like a little tote. My fucking laptop doesn't fit in my purpose, zipper brook. Oh. So it's a calamity.

Absolute calamity. Can calamity. Backpack would fit with your Carhart era. I know, but I can't. I think you might fit too well. I'm like, I can't actually be mistaken for like a child, even though I dress like one. I'm really only relying on the deep bags and wrinkles around my eyes and shrinks of gray hair to reveal to people that I am not, in fact, a 16-year-old boy. What about the wardrobe might signal?

What about the one-shoulder backpack situation? No, you can't. Okay. I used to do the one shoulder until I started to have too many books and it was too happy and then I had to switch to the two. But I was a one-shoulder kid for a while. Okay. Yeah. No free ads, but a Carhart zip.

But Carhart, if you want to. You're looking for someone. It's either Nick Nelson or it's Mallory Ribbon. Very passionate about the brand. As is Chris Ryan. Great nominees. Those are, yeah, the giraffe pants is a fantastic one. Okay.

I had Buffy's giraffe pants as a contender as well, obviously. This feels like the appropriate place to just once again celebrate the way that overalls are used in the show. We got some overalls on Buffy, which was fantastic. Her overalls of sadness, I call them. Overalls of sadness, exactly, just so. But Willow has, we've got some classic blue jean denim. We have black overalls. We have like a cream.

We've got like a rust. Yeah, rusty wrette. Just amazing. But here are my two contenders, ultimately. Gile saying after Jenny shoots him, I don't think it went in too deep. The advantages of layers of tweed better than Kevlar. Very good. Fantastic stuff.

But not to be too basic bitch about it, but my pick here is Spike because I was knocked over despite reclining already on my couch in pajamas. Knocked over. Bold over. When that man stepped out of that car, trench coat, the bleach hair, the bleach hair, the scar. The SIG, the nail polish, the pop of red. Yep. Was the term no notes invented for this? Like, I just, it's unbelievable.

Oh, my God. Filling my heart with so much joy right now. Thank you so much. I appreciate you forever. I appreciate you for bringing this into my life. Speaking of an outfit repeater, by the way. Spike in the black t-shirt, black jeans, red button-down black coat is like, he's like, I found my look.

If it works, it works. Why would I? If it works, it works. Later, he will wear other colors. They all feel wrong to me. It's the black and the red, yeah. He'll wear like blue later. There's a purple.

I don't like it. A purple. Things get interesting later on in the Spike Department. I wonder how he feels about the Ravens being one in five. Hmm. Great question. Not great. Sorry, buddy.

Thanks. This next one's a good one. This is a rapid fire. Yeah. A rapid fire roundup. of Cordelia, Oz, and Drew. Yes. Which order should we take them in?

Really quickly, I just want to say that our listener, Terran, wrote in just like basically a love letter to Cordelia, and I always love a love letter to Cordelia. Absolutely. Cordelia is so important to early Buffy as comic relief and to provide innocence as the others become jaded, but also as a foil to basically every other character, especially Buffy, who she acts as almost a substitute for. As a kid, I thought she was really annoying, and now I think she steals every scene from every actor except Mr. Head.

So shout up. Charisma Carpenter. Terran loves you. We love you. Let's start with Cordelia. I have a clip. Please. That's what is.

I don't get it. Buffy's a Slayer. Shouldn't she have... What, a license to kill? Well, not for fun. But she's like the Superman. Shouldn't there be different rules for her? Sure, in a fascist society.

Right. Why can't we have one of those? Boy, Cordelia, do we have an update for you? Welcome to 2025. I also mention I love her in school hard when she's giving Buffy a bat. Buffy, like Sarah Michelle Geller is one of the most beautiful creatures alive. And she's like, are we just skipping face washing? Entirely, yeah.

That's so good. And then she's like, we mix like water and oil. And she's like, yeah, I can really see the oil. And then later when she meets Joyce and she's like, that's a woman who knows how to moisturize. I loved that. That was great. And then at the end of Reptile Boy, when she just goes, you guys, I just hate you guys. The weirdest things always happen when you're around.

She's not wrong. Incredible. spot the lie. I have one more thing, but it's not really in line, so let's hear what you have for Courtney. Okay, this was tough. Didn't go to 20, but you know what? I didn't count. I think it's 10-ish. Okay, season one, episode 1-1, she was bad. It was a nightmare. This is like, we're back with Cordelia. A total nightmare. I mean, they promised me to take me to say Croix, and then they just decided to get out of duskety. I got unbelievable. Oh, the chases. Art and buildings. So good. This is kind of like a joint honor between Cordelia and

And Buffy, this really killed me. Same episode. Cordelia says, you're really campaigning for pitch of the year, aren't you? Yeah. And Buffy says his defending champion, are you nervous? Incredible. I love Cordelia when she was bad, when she was just like, you know, like Buffy, get a fucking grip. This is just really amazing.

I find her to be, like, immensely entertaining. I really, really love Cordelia this season. A couple others from school. whole hard. I think I texted you about this one, but oh, we do the foundation one already. So we're all still rooting for you on Saturday. I'd be there myself if I didn't have a leg wax.

Great. There's a like recurring the hair specifically in addition to the foundation, the makeup, all of it. In Reptile Boy. Oh, Buffy, it's like we're sisters with really different hair. Love that. Dues and don'ts. Don't. Don't.

Don't wear black, silk, chiffon, or spandex. These are my trademarks. Incredible. We go back to the hairbeat here in Halloween. This is probably my winner. Buffy love the hair. It just screams street urchin. So good.

And then, of course, this might overlap from the other category was the, when it comes to dating on the Slayer. Just incredible. I quite enjoyed and lied to me when she's talking about Marie. Grand Toinette. She was going to let him kick. Zander's just like staring at her. We haven't talked about Zander and Cordelia.

Oh, my God. How do you feel? I will save it for my next category, actually. Great. Yeah, it'll be coming up in my next category. I just want to shout out that. The fact that Cordelia's Chrysler, Serious Convertible has Queen C as a license plate is immaculate. Fantastic.

Okay. Oz and Drew. Which order? Who's first? Let's do Oz. Okay. Let's see. I think I already shared my winner, which was from innocence,

and my fantasy when I'm kissing you, you're kissing me. It's okay. I love. It's not the line from innocence when he goes, uh, arm. I did. I really like that. I really enjoy and surprise me. He's like, everybody just see that guy turn to dust.

That's great. And the way he varied. He's like, actually explains a lot. Yeah. Love that. In surprise, actually, another, another moment in surprise with Willow and Oz that I love. He's like, I'm going to ask you out, right? And we'll say, yes.

And then, you know, does that help? Yeah, like, creates like a comfort zone. And then he does. And she's like, oh, I can't. And then he said, because of Buffy's party. Well, see, I like that you're unpredictable. That's a great one. Yeah.

And then with Cordelia in episode six, Halloween, I love when she's like, is Mr. I'm the lead singer. I'm so great. I don't have to show up for my date or even call going to be there or not says, yeah, you know, she's just going by Devin now. He's like, he's so kind of understated and mellow. But, yeah, the wit is very sharp. Love us.

When he gets shot and what's my line, he says, I'm shot, you know, wow, it's odd. It's really good. Great. But in What's My Line? The Animal Crackers Exchange. Yes. When he says, I mock you with my monkey pants. And she's like, the monkey's French.

She's like, yeah, all monkeys are French. Yeah. Incredible. Do you like Animal Crackers? No, but I love that scene. You'd not have been my snack of choice ever, but it is good. I enjoyed the commentary on the hippos as well. You know, what do they think?

Drusilla. A number of bangers, many of which will come up in the Spike category. So that allowed this to stay somewhat in control here. Another lie to me nominee here. Drew sang to Angel of Buffy, your heart stinks of her. Love that. That's probably my pick. I quite enjoyed in What's My Line Part 2.

When Drew says, I was dreaming and Spike says, of what pet? We were in Paris. You had a branding iron. He says, I brought you something, and then she resumed. There were worms in my baguette. It's just like so weird and specifically Drewie. Same episode, What's My Line Part 2? When she's torturing Angel? Very good. My mommy ate lemons raw. She said she loved the way they made her mouth tingle. Like really great. Invoking the horror of what he inflicted. And then in surprise, when Spike says, do you like? get baby and Drew says it reeks of death. It'll be the best party ever. Those are my nominees. I'm going to go with lie to me. Spike and Drusilla. Spike says, are we feeling better then?

Drusilla says, I'm naming all the stars. And he says, you can't see the star's love. That's the ceiling. Also, it's day. I can see them, but I've named them all the same name. And there's terrible confusion. Absolutely bananas. Incredible.

Shit crazy, Drusilla, you have to love her. That's a great spike moment, too. Okay. Sensational stuff. When Willow cries, we cry, sounds like we have the same thing. Willow finds out about Zander and Cordelia. I'll never recover from this. Never.

You'd rather be with someone you hate than with me. That killed me. And on the heels of... My take on Zander and Cordelia is, like, I'm actually pretty into it. I feel like this will come up in one of our other category. Actually, I have them coming up in two of my other categories. but like, it's a good, oh, you probably want, this is like too toxic to write it this way now,

but like it's pretty entertaining to watch. The way the soap opera music swells, like, for their first few make-out sessions. It's like really, really good. Yeah. The season opens with the ice cream cone moment. I hate, actually I hate that. Oh, interesting.

Tell me why. Just because it like never really comes back, do you know what he mean? And it's sort of like, I understand like Buffy's out of the picture. Yeah. But like, it never really comes back.

And in this season in a way that I can like connect. Mm-hmm. Do you know, like would Zander do that? Right. That's very fair. It was like so... I mean, they're about to kiss.

Yeah. Like he's, I mean, first of all, you're invoking Daniel from Witness. You have my attention. Yeah. Yeah. One of my favorite movies. Like that I was just like, I turned out and I'm like, I'm sorry. Is this happening right now? Is this for me? This is a witness? Yeah, yeah. And the look, you know, for Xander, obviously like, I'm at the beginning of my Buffy journey. I'm two seasons in, so I don't know what the future holds. But I have a like, they are a very familiar pair to me where it's like entirely possible to me that Xander at some point will be like, it actually was Willow all along. And it's entirely possible to me that that will know. not be what happens. And that the idea of this unrequited love for like a person who you're really close to in is super present in your life, your best friend, as he's always saying, and you are

not for them what they are to you is like core. I was going to say teenage text, but actually that like kind of never goes away. Right. So I really like respond to that aspect of that relationship. Is it we felt this way and it's not at the same time or actually only one person felt that way. Either way, it's interesting to me. For Zander, you know, I'm 17. like looking at Linolia makes me want to have sex. He's been very clear, and through these 14 episodes of season two, it's very clear of like, Willow's my best friend. I'm like, yeah, I'm taking Willow to the dance,

but I'm not taking Willow to the dance. Is it that he is feeling in that moment for a second because Buffy's not gone, he's at sea, he's lost, something is present that all the other distractions like obscure? Or is it that he's just like, I like have a boner all the time because I'm a 17-year-old dude and like this girl would kiss me.

me right now, right? And on Willow's face, it is unmistakably like, this is the thing I want the most in the world. It's finally happening. Yeah. And so, and then like she tries when he's in a shitty mood a couple episodes later to call back to the ice cream by putting. I want to die inside. It's so painful. Like, it's so painful.

I want to die. And so when she says like it means you'd rather be with someone you hate than be with me, it killed me. And it, she's got the like, you know, she would stop you. Can it be the shame? There's like the classic humor there. But that is So raw.

And the way that Allison Hennigan, again, again, like, when her voice quivers, it's the Claire Dane's effect where, like, I want to cry. I do love that they've introduced Oz into this season. And so we can just, like, finally dispel with the fiction that, like, nobody in high school would want to date fucking Alice and Hanigan. You know, like, as if she's not absolutely gorgeous and adorable and all this sort of stuff like that. So I love that Oz is here. You'd rather be with someone else who hate them with me is really tough. One more will a moment. want to mention here. It's not really like a when Willow cries, we cry. But in what's my line part

one when she falls asleep at the computer in the library and Giles wakes her up and she's been talking in her sleep about tadpoles. And then she says, I have frog fear. I just want to put a pin in that because that comes back in like two different ways. Oh, exciting. Willow talking in her sleep and frogs. Fear of animals. Oh, interesting. Comes back in a way that I just want to like flag here. I'm very excited about that. On the Oz, Willow front, too, and, like, you know, Zander, you're kind of, like, hoping you can... Buffy and Willow have that conversation. It's like, well, okay, my choices are, you know, basically to move on and be with someone who wants to be with me or, like, wait forever for Zander to date everyone else until he realizes I'm right here, right?

And it's like, what do you deserve, right? And I thought, it's a... Buffy is sensational. I love Buffy. However, in Halloween, when Buffy was like, let me be clear. I think that Buffy trying to encourage Willow to feel confident was cool and good. But Buffy being like, dress like, this is your time to go like be who you aren't. And like, like, Willis like, this is not actually what I want to do. I don't feel comfortable.

I was like, all right, Buffy, like read the room, chill a little bit here. You know, Willow wants to put on a cheat and be a ghost and that's fine. On the one hand, yes, but then at the end of the episode. She's walking with the, exactly. And it's like, we have both of those things. We have the moment where she doesn't know that someone's going to see her. She's not trying to, like, talk herself into doing the thing that other people are doing. Because it's what's, like, expected for a 16-year-old girl and, like, Halloween or whatever.

It's just, like, a kind of organic, authentic moment. But also, when in, once again, we were invoking a gommy girl, when they're all in their outfits and their costumes for the school dance. A little Eskimo outfit. Ozzie's or anyway? Yeah, because, like, you have Zander kind of like, you look snug, you know, but then you have Oz, like, and in this. that all wrapped up. And that's when he's like, who is that? He's like, no. Yeah. And so I love that contrast of like, Zander can't wait to try to fuck this like hot chick who wandered into their lives. And Oz is like, you are doing the thing that feels right to you. Exactly who you are. It's a little bit of like a Bridget Jones.

I love you just as you are. Just as you are. Just as you are. Yeah. All right. Love Willow. Bad episode you'll go to Bat 4. This one can, this is a suggestion from our listener, Barb. I really like. this. We're going to keep this for probably the rest of the series. This is where I would just put Incom Mummy Girl. Definitely. Genuinely, I enjoy Incomami Girl. Absolutely. It's not a good episode, but it's a great episode. It's our Oz intro as we mentioned, The Impata and Buffy parallels. This is the same writers as the PAC. This is Matt Keene and Joe Reinhmeier. And these, those are their only two episodes, The Pack and Incomami girl. both really good Xander episodes.

Yes. The best Zander episode is, but those are their only two episodes, then they don't write again. And I think that's a shame, because I think the Pack and I'm Mommy Girl, while both being like, what? Are also, like, kind of stealthily great.

Zander's best episode, I think, comes in season three. It's written by someone else. But I feel like these guys, like, really had thoughts about Xander and who he should be and how they should explore him, you know? Yeah, my pick isn't a mommy girl as well, no question. I did want to ask you here in this category, I felt like the right place to ask you, what level of esteem is the dark age held in or not held in? The Ripper.

Not held in. So then I think we can talk about it here for a second because, like, first of all, of course, I will be compelled. Like, when you texted me in all caps, Ripper! Because even just you hear that in Herald by Ethan Preeton in Halloween, I'm like, oh, what? And then, you know, everything that we learn. about Giles in this episode and like the, you know, we start

with this idea of like the kids are talking about probably like tweed diapers, right? And then he builds like, I mean, when he rolled up his sleeve and I saw that he had a tattoo, I was like, Is that your next tattoo? I need a private moment. My tattoo is not going to be the mark of Igon because I don't want to invite a...

Be gone? But it might be a tattoo of Giles rolling up his sleeve to reveal that he has that tattoo. That was very powerful. Yeah. I just love, I did love the Buffy Giles. I'm so used to you being a grownup and then I find out that you're a person, most grownups are.

That's a thing that I like have always really, yeah. I remember like seeing like a teacher at the mall and being like, oh. Yeah, that moment, yeah, when you realize your parents or another adult you know. Yeah. Yeah. And I think again, like child of divorce stuff, just like my parents were like actively dating when I was a kid, you know? So I'm like, yeah, like, your parents are grownups. And, like, that's a thing.

So this has just always been kind of like an interesting text to me. Yeah. And I was, I think of my pick because I'm like, I know that one's kind of like, this is like not great and it's really fun. But I wasn't, I'm not surprised that people are like the dark ages like mid, but I found plenty of things too. I mean, I'll spoil my like, it definitely shows up in my, you know, cringiest low budget mom. Oh, interesting. I think the Dark Age, like some of the goop stuff.

And then Jenny's, that's not winning an Emmy for Best Makeup. Jenny's like dark elf look. Like, I just, that's very tough. I'm not a fan. Yeah. Fair. All right. Totally fair.

We're one away from Horny's moment, which will feature Malcliffe. We have to get through Best Fight Scene first. This to me is easily Angel and Buffy soaking wet in the mall in innocence. Oh, yeah. That's a good one. Yeah. That's a good one. I decided to honor the spirit of the prompt instead of the... Like a verbal spat? Correct. I was like, this is maybe if we haven't yet where we can talk about Zander and Cordelia.

So I just want to shout out. Have you round up a few great insults? Just, I do have a couple, not that many, actually, but I... Because, like, bad eggs, it actually gets... You know, it's serious. Like, you go from like, this would work a lot better for me if you didn't talk to Cordelia saying it would work a lot better for me with the lights off. It's actually like you're like entertained, but kind of like, how? Repel it. It's painful. But then Zander's saying, we're repulsed by each other.

Like we hide from our friends. It's serious. Before that, though, in episode 10, what's my line part two? When Sanders has to Cordelia, I hate to burst your bubble, but you don't inspire me to spring for a dinner over and Bucky's from you what. That really killed me. that was very good. Add that to list of your Sunnydale establishments. Yeah, exactly. Bucky's fun too hot. Take a fair one. That was great. The use of maggots in the Xander Cordelia

courtship is quite harrowing. I actually have some like questions about would the worms, like, would the maggots keep going under the door into the adhesive stuff? Like wouldn't like lead maggie? I'd be like, my dudes. Right? Chill. Do they talk to, can do the separate bug? It feels like they should. They should be like a hive mind communicating their part of all. Or that's just the scout. The scout. And he got, he got, he got, he got, he got, he got, he got, you know? Super, super goop and stumped.

And then so did all the rest of them. And the maggots fall from the ceiling. Oh, yeah, it's, it's all very gross. When the grossest part to me is when they go back to the school library and go in point, like, falls. That's like my nightmare. Yeah, horrible. Absolutely. The, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, kicking the dick is a great one.

I, we already talked about it, but I do think the, like, kind of melee and school Hard is really fun. Spike versus Buffy in school. I want to shout out, Sophia Crawford is Buffy's stunt double and Steve Tartalia. I think every single Buffy's Spike fight is actually pretty great. And that one is helped because it's dark in the school. So that's helpful. Yeah. And we get the nice like Joyce, you're so nervous all episode. And then it's like the pride. Yeah. You know, that's a, that's a nice payoff there. Oh yeah. When Joyce takes over, like when the one guy is trying to get out the window gets like wasted out the window in school hard because Snyder

and then Joyce just like takes over and she's like, the fuck. Classic shift from Snyder and he's like, let's go out the window and then later he's like I told him not to. I'm not to be a window. My Rubin. Horneous moment. I believe you have a clip. Carlos, can we hear and see this please? I'm lying, Robert. The book's fine.

I just love to see you squirm. So I trust I gave good squirm This Saturday. Saturday night. See if I can make you squirm. I can barely survive this. This is obviously one of my absolutely squirm. Scorum o'clock is definitely on the list here.

Full disclosure, our producer Carlos, before we started recording, told Mallory that he now, well, he told both of us, but it's not my fault. Told Mallory, he now has like an irresponsible number of horny Giles clips on his computer. And it's like, we're only midway through season two. Buckle up. Strap in. Just so much horny stuff with Giles and Jenny. I find this very powerful and important.

I thought when Zander said in the dark age, okay, Giles and Orgy's in the same sentence, I could have lived without that one. I was like, I can't live without that one. There's a moment when Willow and Zander and Buffy are like, imagine. Yeah, imagine them. And I'm like, I am imagining. And then they're like, ew, and they all walk away. Like, guys, we're all thinking about them fucking.

And we're, yeah, well, when I was a teenager, I would have been thinking about them fucking too. Well, when he's explaining what happened in the London, Magiqa, the high on years. And he says, small stuff for pleasure or gain. And then he says it was an extraordinary high. Like, I can't tell you what it has done to me to. Magic is drugs. Well, yeah. This is why the dark age means more to you that it makes it does to the general populace.

Yes, I just really, again, I would like to fuck this man and I would like to watch Jenny fuck this man. So, but before, because there's obviously, like, when Jenny is possessed, I dark out very good, what you said before. And she's like straddling him and then I got and starts speaking through. And he's like, it wouldn't be right. there's the moral like almost like okay what's going to happen and that's it. None of that. Before that, before

the melty goo touches Jenny's unconscious hand and she becomes the vessel for Igon. Before that this, what we just witnessed, the magic that we just witnessed, the fact that she is returning, he's loaning her books. First editions. First editions.

The way that she is playing with him, toying with him. The enforcer, right? She's so it's, that is my assumption. I'm like, is this like a room with the view? Yeah. It's, they, I think they spell it differently in the subtitles, but I assume that's a mistake. I also assumed it was the enforcer. Yeah. That makes the most sense. That book didn't look like a first edition to me. And also if it's a first edition of the enforcer, I'm, A, not lending it out, but B, if I'm lending it out, it's coming in like a little bag. You know what I mean? She just has it, like, raw dogging in her, in her, like, knapsack. It's a great, like, come over and read it. Yeah. Come over. I've got a first. It doesn't travel, but you all welcome to come here and read it. When he said, yes, well, I trust I gave good squirm. They know what they're doing. Oh, yeah. I gave good squirm.

Trust, yes, you gave good squirm and you continue to give good squirm. Did anyone ever tell you you're kind of sexy, fuddy-duddy? And this is on the heels of the opening exchange in the beginning of the season when she says, you probably spend all summer with your nose in a book and he says yes i suppose you consider that frightfully dull and jennie says depends on the book like she's so ready to have sex with rube for giles to go to monster truck rallies with rubeer jiles oh my god i just this is just like all and the quick little like the quick little hallway kiss they have as the bell is ringing and the students are pouring in and then i'll see if i can make you squirm and the look on his face uh this is the most

important thing that has ever happened to me i knew you would have giles jenny Amply covered. Yeah. Yeah. So I've gone with Drusilla and Angelin, what's my line when, as you mentioned, she's pouring holy water on him, but she's doing it like it's hot candle wax. Like, that is how she's doing it. Spike says, never a fan of the pre-show.

Yes. These three definitely had sex altogether is my assumption of this. Absolutely, no question. Spike, an unwilling third, because he doesn't like to share. is my assessment. We get a taste of this dynamic when Angel waltzes in as Angelous in innocence and Spike is in the chair and Angel's just like, and Drsilla's excited and, like, I can tell she's not satisfied, very tough. That's a great pick. I thought you were going to say Incumummy Girl again when Zander takes a pot of the bleachers and breaks out of Twinkie and says stuffed with

a delightful creamy white substance of goodness. No? No? Okay. I will also say, just to circle back to mine, when Drusilla and Angel are, like, bound together on the, like, altar for what's my line, and he's, like, shirtless and they're just sort of, like, draped there. That was really striking visual. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very good.

Okay. Another person has ended our lives in this season. This is a category where I feel like I'm, like, Jonathan must be a meaningful part of my future. Danny Strong as Jonathan is here. Yeah. I just love in this season, I just love in this season, he shows up in six different episodes. Also, Larry is like a guy who shows, you know, like we're starting to get like high school students who repeat. So it feels like it's not just the Scooby gang inside of this world.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. We met Harmony, which is like one of Cordelia's sort of like, you know, so like we're starting to meet these characters. And I just love that they just like hit Jonathan in six different episodes in these little mini moments. And it's just sort of like, let's get Danny in to do this scene. Why not? So he's in three episodes in this stretch. What is your favorite use of Jonathan inside of this stretch?

All right. So it's a tie for me between in Incommonie. Your hands feel kind of rough. Which is very funny in a vacuum, but feels kind of like a callback to me to the she mantis here in serrated. It's my hands, which I loved. And then in What's My Line, Part 2, after the Taraka, bounty hunter shootout and holding him hostage and like tiny knife point and he's like was that a demonstration that's just great I love that all right um most 1998 thing or 97 if you prefer um

mying is a lot of fashion based uh-huh sure but I will say in the dark age we had a Gavin rossdale reference which feels very of a moment god I felt like we were back covering yellow jackets um The quest for Camelot poster and innocence. Yes. Very. But when Willow asks Oz out, I think this is right. Or when Oz asked Willow out. Yeah.

She's wearing a giant purple, like, bucket hat. And there are many hats in this season for Willow. Giant purple bucket hat and her smiley face backpack. Right. Right. One of several backpack she wears this season. Yes. Not to be confused with Cordelia's teddy bear backpack out of whose eye a bad egg tentacle emerges.

The alien face hugger influence on the spine huggers is quite apparent. So much skittering. Yeah. I actually did not rewatch bad eggs. I couldn't handle the skittering. I couldn't do it. You hate it. You abhor a skitter.

As mentioned, the Xander Cordelia kind of sexy bickering feels very of its time. I am going to go with something very specific here, though, which was in Halloween. Spike scouting the Slayer on the VCR. Yeah. He's going to go. So the vamp has the camcorder and is filming Buffy's moves out of the pumpkin patch. Yeah. And then they've popped in the tape.

And they're watching. And then Spike says rewind that, which just feels so. Just saying rewind. Yeah. Yeah. Like, rewind that is just a thing you said when you had a VCR. Great. Great.

And the overalls, of course, as mentioned. One of two Giles categories for you. First one is Giles' most dad moment. Yeah. This is innocence again for me. We've already, yeah. I mean, yeah. You want to read it out?

I think that the, a number of contenders here, but I think that, again, this one takes the cake, like comforting, Buffy in her moment of sincere need. And Buffy says, you must be so disappointed in me. Giles says, no, no, I'm not. But this is all my fault. No, I don't believe it is. Do you want me to add my finger at you and tell you that you acted rashly? You did, and I can. I know that you loved him. And he has proven more than once that he loved you. You couldn't have known what would happen. The coming months are going to be hard, I suspect, on all of us. This is the part that really got me. but if it's guilt you're looking for Buffy, I'm not your man.

All you will get for me is my support and my respect. And my respect. And like that's the, I mean, meaningful in general, obviously, but just extra, extra poignant given, you know, they, the, they've had a meaningful bond this entire time. But like the sometimes present tension of how to balance your other desires with your duty as the Slayer, right? There's that as kind of like the core text and backdrop for this conversation. the way that Buffy when Kendra emerged was like, wait, is that the kind of slayer that Giles would want instead? But then just as we talked about, like the shame that Buffy is feeling this right of passage in your life leading to that level of doubt and insecurity. And then this person who you hold in such a steam and who, while I love him and would like to see him have sex with Jenny, can be kind of stuffy, right?

Saying like, I support you. I respect you and the person that you are is like a person to celebrate and support and I'm not here to tell you you were wrong. Like it's just really lovely. I was so struck on this rewatch that line and my respect. We haven't touched the third rail that is the Joss Whedon of it all. But like this is the kind of, you know, this episode's written by Joss Whedon, there's a writer's room, but written by Joss Whedon. And it's the kind of line that like a teenage girl watching this in 1997, 98, is like, holy shit, no one slut shaming her. Right.

And my respect. Yes. And it is why Joss was built up as this sort of like, you know, pillar of fucking feminism, you know. And then, which makes the revelation of his behavior like so much harder to take. And so it's lines like that where you're just sort of like, he was feeding. us this stuff that just like really mattered and it still matters but it is uh it has an association for you now as well yeah i'm gonna hit you with a few others tell me jowell's getting all the snacks of the football game with jenny incredible stuff um jow's yelling at buffy about her music

must we have this noise during your calisthenics in the dark age big bay city rollers guy the way he looks at angel when angel says she hasn't been sleeping well tossing and turning Very good. She told me. She told me. And last but not least, it's similar. It's a reptile boy, Buffy. I told one lie, I had one drink.

And Giles says, yes. And you were very nearly devoured by a giant demon snake. The words, let that be a lesson are a tad redundant at this juncture. So good. Giles with the lecture is fantastic, but supportive Giles. A runner-up for me is, obviously, there's lie to me, which we already talked about and what he says at the end. But another runner-up for me is in surprise when he really wants her to have. this party. Yeah. Right? One thing I've learned in my tenure here on the Hellmouth is that there's

no good time to relax. Buffy's turning 17 just this once and she deserves a party. Like I love, I love that because Giles is learning from her just as she's learning from him, you know, that's the beauty of it. All right, so that was Giles' Most Dad moment. This category handcrafted for Mallory Rubin. Giles' most daddy moment. I have another clip. It'll shock everyone. Rupert, you're going to have to trust me. All right, I'll put myself in your hands. That sounds like fun. Are we supposed to stand this?

I want to support you in all your endeavors. I do. Yeah. I feel like the daddy in that scenario is Jenny. I know, but I agree. It's really just, I had to have it in there. I had to. It is just another horniest moment.

It is more of a Jenny clip than a Giles clip, but it is so important to me that I just, I had to have it in there. I'll give you another one. I thought this was quite sexy. Uh-huh. You mentioned buying all the snacks for the date. I like when he starts shit-talking American football.

Yeah. Rugged. American football? Jenny says, and that's funny because, no, I just think it's rather hot that a nation that prides itself on its ferility should feel compelled to strap on 40 pounds of protective gear just in order to play rugby. Incredible stuff. Ted Lassow prep.

Yeah. You're never going to look at Anthony Surhead and Ted Lassau the same way. No, I won't. I always thought he was. was sexy, but very powerful. I think that Giles is really in daddy mode when he's beating up Ethan. That's what I have. Because...

This might be toxic, but beating the shit out of Ethan Rain and Halloween. It's hot. And then cleaning his hands with his like handkerchief while he does it. It's hot. And like... That's Ripper mode. Yeah. And we've always seen...

Right. When he's sparring with Buffy, when he's training, he's like not even close to being able to hold a a candle to what she's capable of. And then he just handled that man. Kicks the shit out of Ethan Rain. So that's, I really honestly, frankly, just wanted an excuse to play that pick. But it is beating up, Ethan is the daddy pick. And even though he's in a state of complete turmoil, rolling up the sleeve,

I don't know why he's using what I would describe as the Raws from Game of Thrones in Paisal's Chambers, Vaj Wash Bowl to like rinse his face. I don't know why that's his move, but it did allow him to, I don't know why. But when I, just the rolling up the sleeve and the tattoo reveal was very important. But yeah, it's beating up, Ethan. But remember what Jenny said that sounds like fun when he said, all right, I'll put myself in your hands. And then she said, talking about his penis, that sounds like fun.

Remember when that happened? I do remember that. I do remember that that happened. That was great. I feel like we're going to have to have another moment where we tell the social team, don't just clip Mallory talking about Jowles' dick, please. Okay. That leads us to best guest star.

Yeah. My answer, well, are you doing? I have Ethan here. Yeah. It's Robin Sachs' Ethan Rain. Yes. In Halloween and the Dark Age. Yes.

Really great. Yeah. I said Ethan Rain was disqualified from Villain of the Week. So that we could put him here. Kind of so that we can put him here. He's fantastic. He's like... He's so good.

Just deliciously entertaining in general, but then, you know, compounded by the history with Ripper, obviously really great. Another, I mean, you mentioned this, but like the foil aspect of this season. So to have him as a foil for Giles' especially in the like Janus two-headed god, like sort of set up in Halloween and stuff like that. That's, it's very, very potent text, but then also the comedy of like when Giles is explaining, the division of self, male and female, light and dark, and then he thinks that and says chunky and creamy. Sorry, that's peanut butter.

I'm immediately like we have an icon in our midst. And, you know, he's also like when he says like the very embodiment of careful what you wish for in terms of the kind of like dressing for what you want to be And then, oh, no, what if that's suddenly what you are? I thought he was able to call out the theme nicely as well. In the Dark Age, though, I hate to mutilate and run, but took the cake for me. I mean, that was just fantastic. Can I say, I think this is okay to say. This is not the last you'll see of Ethan.

I would hope not. Yeah. Yeah, that feels, that would be terrible. Okay. Best High School is hell metaphor. we talked about this a bit. I really think there's only one answer. Let's roll that clip.

It's what? Bell's ringing, fireworks, a dulcid choir of pretty little birdies. I can't. It's really tough. Yeah. It's just beyond. And then he says,

come on, Buffy. It's not like I've never been there before. Oh, my God. Really bad. I will say, uh, frat boys are demon cultists isn't bad and has been used and other properties after that.

This idea of like, these very successful families or whatever have a history of like sacrificing to a demon that is like a potent metaphor inside of genre fiction and it's like for sure um you know you might want to talk about reptile boy in the next category but like i do in fact before we get there we'll say and i swear this is not just like an ad for my friend's podcast but i will say that the song for reptile boy is uh the introduces the phrase demon lizard patriarchy. Very good. And smash the demon lizard patriarchy is like on all of their merch and it's very good.

That's amazing. So let's talk about cringy's low budget moment. Please. And would you like to talk about reptile boy? I would. Mekida the Delta Zeta Kappa Jack in the box fallist demon who lurks in the

frat basement waiting to eat roofied girls is my is my pick the swaying this is so clear it gave me real doctor who yeah yeah yeah or like the even like the slithine like there's just something so like you can see exactly where the person ends and the rubber begins you can like see the seam this is a person in like paper machete around a spring yeah it's just like very very funny shout out uh jordana spiro Rachel from Ozark. I was like, Rachel from Ozar?

Yeah, yeah. Mokin' Joe. Roswell. I know Pedro Pascal shows up at some point. I don't know when. Okay. That's exciting. The frat bros shouting brisky time really got me.

That was very good. The fratio time is pretty good. It's pretty great. Okay. I guess this is time for your magnanimous opus. This is the most okay, Joanna. I get it. Spike moment.

One moment. I have a clip. And you have a clip. My black goddess. My ripe wicked plum. I have already told you and have begun to follow through. I will be calling you my ripe wicked plum. Yeah.

From now on. You texted that to me last night. Unbelievable stuff. What's my line part two? That moment is very, very, very powerful. Okay, rapid fire. Here are the 20. We've shared a lot of them already.

There are like, by far. the most from school hard, though, which is interesting to kind of see them here. Sensational introduction. If every vampire who said he was at the crucifixion was actually there, it would have been Woodstock ellipsies, so I'm cheating. This is actually an extra good. That was actually out Woodstock. That was a weird gig. I met off a flower person and I spent the next six hours watching my hand move. So who do you kill for fun around here? Just incredible stuff. You're that anointed guy. I read about you, wonderful.

any of you just want to test who's got the biggest wrinklies around here step on up fantastic oh my god you're getting closer to the accent i'm very excited i'm a veal kind of guy you're too old to eat but not to kill snaps and he cracks his neck i feel better that's so good um still in the same episode this is when angel has zander in the headlock and is pretending to be it to be bad and Spike says, people still fall for that annerice routine. What a world. And then shortly after says, this torture thing is an act, right? You're not housebroken. That's amazing. My favorite is, you are my sireman, you were my Yoda. You are my Siam, man. You are my Yoda. Just amazing. A Slayer with family and friends, that sure as hell wasn't in the brochure. And then how's the

annoying one? All of those are from Schoolheart. I will add one School Hard, what, get stuck in my head, which is, doesn't flow. F5-0-fum, I smell the blood of a nice, ripe girl. Good has said ripe, wicked plum. We could have. Halloween.

And I just like to track, as I was watching. Or someone's in the ceiling, which he does later when he goes, someone wasn't worthy. Very, very good. Actually, that's from later on the season. So, I think that's gentle. Gentle on all of our slips.

That's fine. I like tracking all of the different pet names, including pet for Drusilla. In Halloween, we get Come Here Poodle, which I really loved. Then Drusilla says, do you love my insides, the parts you can't see? And Spike says, I bowled and trails, my sweet. Eyeballs to end trails. Incredible stuff. Lie to me.

Spike to Drusilla, I'm sorry, I'm a bad rude man. I just love that. Then when Ford walks in there are two great Spike lines to for it. He says, are you all asleep or do we finally find a restaurant that delivers? Yeah. Very good. Really good. Spoke to me as a DoorDash Postmates. Yeah. Enthusiast. I've known you for two minutes and I can't stand you. I don't really feature you living forever. Can I eat him now love? Great shit. I don't really feature you, which is like a common sort of spike idiom is, is, you know, I guess British, but like just feels like Spike.

I don't really feature you doing something. Just a, yeah, so turn of phrase that I now just think is his. What's my line, part one? Spike yells at Drew and then apologizes, I'm sorry, kitten. Love that. This might be, this is actually, is this my favorite? God, I can't decide. I'll dance with you, Pat.

On the Slaya's Grave. So great. Love that. Tomoka Joe slash Willie and What's My Line Part 2? Talk and I'll have your guts for guard. Great shit. Then, of course, from that same episode, My Black Goddess, My Ripe Wicked Flaming.

Incredible. You already shared this one in our Drusilla category, but when Drew says, I'm naming all the stars, and Spike says you can't see the stars love. That's the ceiling. Also, it's day. Oh, my God, that's amazing. And I do like just when he says to Angel,

no more of this, I've got a soul crap. Great. Impossible to pick. That's the greatest act of love you've ever exhibited towards me and we have matching tattoos. That was an act of restraint. Restraint. Is this what people, is this podcasting? Just reading Spike quotes to me.

I hope so. All right. What's your opinion? Are you going to nominate when you thought I would get it or when you got it? No, it was hard for me to answer this category. It's like, whatever. But I already mentioned when Spike sees Drew and his vamp face melts away. That's a really good one.

Great one. that transition from Van Face to human face is getting better. Still not great, but getting better. Yes, definitely. Okay. Most creative dusting. I cheated on this one. We can include the anointed one if you want to.

It doesn't have to be Buffy doing the dusting. Okay. Interesting. But I have, in when she was bad. Uh-huh. So are you going to kill me, are we just making small talk? And then she takes the survivor torch and lights one of them on fire and stakes the other one with the others. A double staking is always, it's really good. It's efficient.

I'm cheating because I am picking a Buffy Kill, but I'm not picking a dusting, technically. That's allowed. That's allowed. Because I am going with, what's my line part one, the ice skating rink. Oh, yeah. The swirl kickthroat slash of Octaris of the Order of Taraka, one of the bounty hunters. Killing that dude with one slice to the neck. While wearing the sweetest lavender sweater you ever did see.

That's Buffy. Wanted to be Dorothy Hamill. Instead, she has to slash the doors open. Slice the jugular of Octaris of the Order of Tanaka. I thought that was fucking sick. All right. We only have two more categories left. I know I'm sad.

I don't want to end. Funniest moment. I have a clip for this. It comes from school hard. Wow. two centuries of dating. If you only had two a year, that's still like 400 dates with 400 different.

Why do they call it a mace? That's great. Insert shot of like her little hand padding it. It's just incredibly good. Yeah, that's amazing. What is Angel's number would really drive you to a dark place? Especially because he's like, you know, I can't have kids, like, built-in birth control.

It's true. Boy, that's a great. pick. Absolutely inspired. Oh, man. This is hard because so many of the funny moments we've hit in other categories, but are still a lot of us. Can I give you another one? Please.

In line to me. Yes. When Angel says, they don't know how we dress, and then one of the fanboys walks down the stairs wearing exactly what Angel is wearing. That's great. Even though Angel is wearing something he would never wear, which is like a red shirt with a brown coat, but the bit is really good. Love it.

Love a bit. Fantastic stuff. All right, some nominees. When she was bad. Giles and Principal Snyder, have you ever considered giving your epithorrence of children? That school principal was not perhaps your true vocation. Great shit. Some assembly required I loved when Giles said, no, no, I just assume that you spent your evenings downloading and cantations and casting phones.

And Jenny said, on game night, are you nuts? Jenny, I... Jenny loving monster trucks and football games? Like, I really, I really, I am very... very powerfully attracted to Giles, but also to Jamie. She's not like other girls. She's my ride or die. She really is.

Just amazing stuff from her. I loved it in Incomogie Girl when Buffy said what kind of girl travels with a mummified corpse and doesn't even pack a lipstick? Great Buffy line. Loved the Xander Willow Buffy moment in Rectile Boy when they're doing like their TV, their TV nights. Yeah. Her lover. I thought that was her chiropractor and then Willis says because of that thing he did her feet. No, that was personal.

Yeah, they're watching like a Bollywood movie. Yeah, yeah. I mean, Willow is attuned given the lie to me, oh, that's what that song is about of it all. Good shit, good shit. They're watching a Bollywood movie. Zander names Amy Yip as his like number one fantasy girl. These are like a culture, like a multicultural enjoyer of global cinema. And of sex dreams because also in Reptile Boy when Buffy is sharing her dream.

about Angel with Willow and Willis says, what did he do in the dream? And Buffy said stuff. And Willa goes, oh, stuff! That killed me. I loved that. What's my line, part one?

Angel saying, you're in danger. Do you know what that ring means? After the order of Taraka killing. I just killed a Super Bowl champ. Buffy, very, very, very good. And then the linoleum line that I already mentioned. Those are all just really funny. And every spike moment makes me laugh.

This show... is incredibly funny. It's great. That's a great show. Okay. And Nick Brint, I mean, Zander, I have so many notes all the time. Yeah. But his comedic delivery is very good.

Quite. There's one in Lidemi when, like, they're at the bronze, and Ford, like, meets Angel. And he's like, cold hands. And Zander's like, you have no idea. And he's like, you have no idea. And he's just, like, pulling all these faces. And it's a whole thing. All right.

Last category, most emotional moment. I feel like it's either the end of Lidemi or the end of innocence for me. I don't have another option. It's going from the Giles Buffy Car Convo into Joyce and Buffy curled up on the couch and you look the same. I got older, you looked the same to me. Heart melting.

It's tough. What a great television program. What a great... Listen, was this a long podcast? Yes. It was 14 episodes of television, though. It would have been long... I mean, frankly, I think people are going to see their runtime and be like...

But then they're going to be like, oh, it's only half the season. Yeah, and then they'll listen to the second episode. And then they'll be like, why didn't we get more? All right. Well. Anyone who hears me say that will have listened to the whole thing. That's the trick. Nobody who tuned down after five minutes is going to hear that.

Clever girl. Listen. I had a blast. We're going to do the second part of the season. Mallory has already seen the second part of the season. Yes. Can I do that podcast from your arms? What about from your couch wrapped in a blanket?

We have a little. We did get an insubing. instant reaction from Mallory after a certain episode in the back half of season two. We have like a tiny little social clip. I like chill and normal. Yeah. We both look extremely normal because it was like late at night. It was like 11 o'clock on seven.

We're both on Jim Jams and you're like just texted me, just watched it. And I was like, guess we'll get on Zoom. Oh my God. The things we do for content. The things we do for love. Anyway, thank you to Carlos Chiroboga, who now has many horny Jiles clips on his computer. I mean, we're just, we're working hard to do a. job we love, you know?

Thank you to our dinner, Riga Powell, for his work. Always. Endless. Isaiah Blakely is here today. We have, again, all of our ringer pals are here. We got a Mike Wargon in person the other day. Isaiah is here with us in the studio. What a treat.

It's incredible time. And thank you, of course, to join me a dinner on first work on the social. And we will see you for part two. Oh, God. Of season two of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, my favorite TV show of all time. This tortured thing is an hand. act right. Bye. Pay off your home, travel

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