House of R - ‘Buffy the Vampire Slayer’ Season 3 Rewatch (Part 1)

Episode Date: January 9, 2026

Mal and Jo are back in the Hellmouth! They continue their ‘Buffy the Vampire Slayer’ rewatch with the first half of Season 3 (through Episode 12, “Helpless”)!  They talk about their favorite episodes, most dated moments, the best fits, how hot Giles is, and more! (00:00) Intro (15:49) Opening Snapshot (52:56) Our Favorites: Season 3, Episode 6, “Band Candy” (01:12:09) Our Favorites: Season 3, Episode 12, “Helpless” (01:33:14) Superlatives Hosts: Mallory Rubin and Joanna RobinsonProducer: Carlos ChiribogaSocial: Jomi AdeniranAdditional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopowell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, welcome back to House of R. I'm Joanna Robinson, joining me today to talk about my favorite season of my favorite television show ever. It's Mallory Rubin. Malie, how are you doing? We're talking about band candy. I'm great. What could be better? It's Buffy Season 3 time. Buffy the Vampire Slayer Season 3. We're going to be going to be going through half the season today, including the incredibly important episode, Ban Candy. You're going to get all of Mallory's horniest takes on band candy. It's going to be fantastic. We're going to get to all of that after this. This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market. Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce and some very tasty limited time flavors. New Whole Foods, Market Peach, Apricot, Rose, Italian soda. Perfect for a picnic or brunch, as is their trending mango, Yuzu chantilly cake.

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and abdominal discomfort. All right, Mallory, before we have the pleasure, the joy, the thrill of our life to talk about Buffy Vampire Slayer Season 3, quick programming reminders. What do we have coming up? We've got the second half of Buffy Vampire Season 3. That's important. That's right. Yeah, absolutely. We've got our hype draft in person. Sean Fentany will be back. Rob Mahoney's joining us this year. It's going to be really, really exciting. We're doing that in person in the studio.

And then I'm going to be in L.A. for several weeks. Why Mallory Rubin? Because you can't bear to be away from me. True. And also because we're going back to Westeros. Our head back to Westeros is here. We love Dunkin Egg. It's Duncan Egg time at last.

And we will be doing our House of Our Deep Dives together in person. We will also be reuniting with the third head of the dragon, Christopher Ryan. for Talk to Thrones on Sunday nights. Can't fucking wait. It's so exciting. I have watched some of this show. It is so good. I was so nervous.

It is so good. I'm so excited to spend weeks and weeks talking about Westrose with you again. Nothing I love more. Nothing I love doing more. Genuinely same. While being in the same space and holding your hand and staring into your eyes.

Okay. Listen, also, so that's a lot that's going on. Mal, how can folks keep track of everything that's happening? Keep it simple. Follow the pod. Why not? Follow House of R on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. You can watch full video episodes of House of R on Spotify.

You can also see full video episodes on the Ringerverse YouTube channel. And follow the Ringervverse on the social media platform of your choosing Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, etc. While you're at it, send us your emails. Send us your emails on Buffy season three episodes 13 through 22 for next week's pod. Send us your 2006 hype thoughts. What are you excited for? And obviously send us your Night of the Seven Kingdom thoughts. And then anything else that's coming in the next few months, Wonder Man.

We're not that far away from Project Hail Mary. It's all happened. It's going to be a big year, so we want to hear from you, Hobbits and Dragons at gmail.com. Here's the Buffy rewatch split. As Mallory pointed out, today we're talking about episodes 1 through 12 of season three. That's Anne is a season premiere, and we're ending on a helpless. That's where we decided to split this season because it is an incredibly important episode, which we will be talking about at length.

So what are you talking about today? Anne, Dead Man's Party, Faith, Hope, Hope, and. Trick, Beauty and the Beast, Homecoming, Band Candy, Revelations, Lovers Walk, Spikes Back, Baby. The Wish, Anya's here, amends, gingerbread, and helpless. Like, just an iconic run of episodes of television and matched only, I think, by the back half of the season. It's just an absolutely incredible season of television.

Just to get folks to taste really quickly off the bat, Mallory, you know, you watch three seasons of Bothy Vampire Slayer. far. You don't have to rank them or anything like that, but like, how are you feeling about season three, maybe compared to season one and two? And like, what was your experience so far? Oh, I adore season three. This is, I don't mind rank in three, two, one. Yeah. Pretty easy for me, actually. And three and two are clustered pretty closely together. And then obviously there's a dip to one. Season three is my favorite so far. I think this is an incredible, I can't wait to do the second pot to just be able to talk about the entire season, you know, in its totality. We'll,

we'll exercise obviously some restraint today in case anybody is going to save the second pod for their first watch of those episodes. I think we'll allude to some of the things that are coming in the back half, but we won't get into too many particulars. But start to finish, I love this season. I think like two of my least favorite episodes in the run are actually probably the first two and in Dead Man's Party. And actually probably three of the first four, Beauty and the Beast, I think outside of those three, like the rest of the episodes in the 12 we're talking about today are like amazing. Were you watching those threes and you're like, Oh, no, Joanna is the season of television. What's happening here? Not at all.

Because even inside of those, as will, I think, come up not only in the opening big picture discussion that we have today, but certainly in some of the category picks, even in the relatively speaking, slightly less strong episodes, there are still really, really important, meaningful things that happen inside of those episodes. And, you know, we'll get into the reasons why this is such an excellent season of television and why I can't wait to hear why it's meant so much to you for so long. It's our producer Carlos's, I think, co-field. favorite, right? It's tied with another season as his favorite. And instantly it's my favorite.

We'll see if it's dethroned while I, while I finish the series. But I just thought like start to finish. This was outstanding and really mature. And the way that it leveled up something that I already thought was outstanding in season two. Like I think season two probably still has the highest highs for me with innocence and passion. But this episode is so consistently excellent that I just kind of have been awe of it. And it has some of like, Some of the things that it explores inside of it are some of my favorite things to talk about in a story set in young adulthood into adulthood in particular. Like late high school, you're on the brink of college, your life is changing, you're thinking about big things. And also, Giles just has never looked hotter. I gasped a laugh. I already have, like, said 500 times in this pot, I would like to fuck this man. I don't know how to explain the lust reaching yet another layer of the stratosphere.

But when I saw him for the first time in season three, I gasped aloud. So now he's getting hotter. There's something for everyone here, right? There's plenty of Giles from Mali Rubin. There's Faith Lahane is here, though. That is just like... Thrilling. Also thrilling.

Eliza Dushku's here. Absolute dynamite in this season of television. Incredible, incredible addition to the show. I struggled to articulate why these seasons two and three means so much to me. I attempt in our season two podcast. I think, and I'll just go back to this again, it just has a lot to do with like being exactly Buffy's age essentially. And like when she turns 18, I turn 18 and all this or stuff like that.

So like when she graduates high school, I graduate high school. So like it's, I've just never felt so, you know, obviously I wasn't fighting monsters and demons and vampires. But, you know, that's the metaphor of the show. You feel like you are when you're a teenager just getting through a day in high school. So, and then the fact that it is so good upon rewatch, and even when you're an adult, you can find things to relate to. And I don't, unlike some of my experiences in season one, I'm not like cringingly sharing it with anyone.

I'm just like, this is masterful storytelling. To the point that you made, you know, we will have sort of an overview here in a second, but going back through these in a sort of more analytical space than I usually do, I was really struck by, the twin themes of this season and how they just hit in almost every single episode. So I don't know that, you know,

Joss Whedon and his writers wrote down these two themes on a whiteboard and made sure to, like, hit them. I don't know it was that conscious, but it just feels that spine is so, like, strong throughout the season so that you can come to this from just a completely casual, I'm enjoying myself, I'm laughing, I'm crying, I'm doing all these things, And then when you get to it on a sort of scholarly level, there's just a lot of rich material here.

So it just hits everywhere. I'm so excited to talk to you about it. So on the mailbag front, we got a few emails, but I would love to hear from more people specific thoughts about season three. We haven't gotten too many like Faith Lahane. Oh my God. She's amazing. And I know she means a lot to a lot of people. So hobbits and dragons at gmail.com if you want.

We've got in a couple of those. But I would love even more. But we have received a ton of emails between season. and two and three. People just talking in a big picture way about what Buffy means to them. It's been, it matters a lot to me to hear from our listeners about how much Buffy show that means so much to me means to them. But I got multiple emails from listeners who met their significant others through the Buffy

fandom, like beautiful stories about just like how they made connections or specifically in this ties into sort of another one, tons of stories of people use Buffy to help them get through dark, scary and especially lonely times. So the way in which Buffy was sort of like a light in the darkness for a lot of people in their teen years or young adult years or even beyond that. And then fostered connections and they found partners who sort of just had similar worldviews as them through this fandom. There are a lot of fandoms that unite people, but I do think some of them are like particularly good at that. And I think Buffy is one of those, you know. Do you have any thoughts about why that might be, Mallory?

Like, what about Buffy? I'm not, I'm not like surprised to hear this at all. This is one of those things that you hear it or you start to see it or you get to glimpse the reality of it for specific people in your life. Like one of the things I've been texting a lot about is, you know, people in my life, my friends who are like, oh my God, you're watching Buffy for the first time. Here's what this means to me. Or like I've mentioned on the prior pod. You know, Adam, my husband is a huge Buffy fan. You guys were having a conversation in our home about faith when I had no context for what that meant, right? Like, um, So that's all really fun. I think that this aspect of the kind of umbrella themes and the unifying principles and areas of interest and examination in the story, but then the ability inside of that to find maybe a specific character or characters who, like, allow you to form the deepest connection or relationships, friendships, whatever the case may be. Like, there is something here for everybody. Do you find something that can either give you catharsis,

or an escape or unlock some level of introspection and understanding in one of the parental relationships, one of the friendships, one of the romantic relationships, one of the arcs and plot lines about ambition or fear or anything, right? And I think what you said a few minutes ago really strikes me about like, I mean, I love thinking about this and talking about this in general with stories I love about how you grow with them and some of the things that resonated with you the first time around are always going to be meaningful. But one of the great rewarding joyous things about lifelong fandom, right? Or fandom that spans a great swath of your life is like growing with the story, changing with the story, and then relating to it in a new way or seeing

other people in your life who you share it with, discover it in a way that makes sense for where they are. So like, I'm excited, you know, to see what that looks like for me with Buffy, because obviously I'm watching it for the first time as an adult. And so it's this really wonderful experience of like simultaneously having it port me back to really key. specific feelings that I had in middle school or high school or early college. You know, who does it make me think of? Who doesn't make me like yearn for? It doesn't make me miss.

What regrets does it call up for me? Like, I love stuff like that. And it's fun to think about what it would have been like to watch it at that age, like to be a contemporary to the characters like you were. I think it would have just been really meaningful. But I also appreciate getting to come to it with the perspective of like, I mean, in some ways, in some cases maybe like experience maturity wisdom. And frankly, I think in a lot of ways, especially right now in my life, like, I'm 39, I'm turning 40 next year.

I'm tired all the time. And I'm just spending so much of my life lately. Like, what did I fuck up? What did I not do? What is there still time for? And so it's a, like, really interesting time to be thinking back to, like, what it was like to think things were ahead of you or to, like, worry that they wouldn't be. And so I just, like, what is that?

What is the version of that for everyone, you know? And so I love that. And, like, I think one of the things that I love to. most about this season, to your point about these kind of just big principles and through lies that are stitched almost to an astonishing extent across every episode and like every character, one of the things that really stood out to me on that front as like a big picture takeaway on the season that I look forward to, I think, like talking about it more detail as we go through some of the beats and some of the categories is almost everybody in this season is behaving

badly and not maliciously, right? Always, but badly. And so there is something about this season, even in a show and a series more broadly, that is about high school as hell, the metaphor, the supernatural telling you something unlocking something, a portal to understanding a very relatable normal experience where I'm like, any story the deeper you get where either people have actual powers or they opt into participating in that kind of experience, do you tip into losing that relatability? And we're deeper into Buffy for me than I've been before. it's gone the other way, where the characters have never been more human and more relatable to me. And so that's just like a masterclass of storytelling and understanding not only these characters, but people, and how people behave and the mistakes that they make. And so on that level, too, I'm not surprised that people find these connections, not only to the story, but to other people who love the story because it is about vampires and werewolves and demons, but it's about being a person in the world.

So I just love this season. Being a person, thank you so much. I love, it, nothing makes me happier than listening to you talk about Buffy, my heart show. But like, we were just talking about, you know, this week is also the premiere of the PIT season two. So the Pitt is like very much on my mind. And something I love about that show, which Rob and I were talking about on the press. Feed was like, everyone is right and everyone is wrong constantly on that show. No one person is always right. No one person is always wrong. They're constantly both all the time. And that's just what makes. them so human and so compelling to watch. And you don't have to like vilify someone when they get something wrong. And you don't have to sort of put them up on a pedestal when they get something right. They're just constantly trying and failing sometimes and succeeding other times. And that's just like what makes human characters compulsively watchable and relatable and all of those or stuff. So the last thing I'll say on sort of like the mailbag front is the third bucket that I would put a lot of emails we received were people who were sharing Buffy for the first time with a child,

a partner, a friend, or a parent because of our rewatch. And that just like spread the good words. Thank you so much for being out there. But like, yeah, for some people they said, hey, I was finally able to convince my husband, best friend, son, mother, or whatever, to watch this with me because the podcast is doing that. most of them have gotten ahead of us because we are watching a very steady, slow pace, and that's fine. The pod will always be here for you when you want to loop back to it. But I just love hearing those stories that people sharing Buffy for the first time,

a show that means so much to so many people. And then the way in which someone can understand you a bit better when they understand a story that means so much to you. So, yeah, it's really beautiful. It's the best. All right. opening Snapshot Here we go. Buffy Season 3

originally aired September 1998 to July 1999 with an asterisk and we'll talk about the episode earshot and graduation day next time. Those were anomalies on the schedule. Just a fun fact

the season debuted a new title card which is the most recognized. This is the logo of the series. It took them two seasons to get there. But they hired Margot Chase who did the Bram Stoker's Dracula poster to like redesign Buffy. It's no longer a little scrawl. It's now the gothic, a stake inside of the Buffy, Buffy the Vampire Slayer opening logo. And welcome to the opening credits, Seth Green. We're thrilled to have you. How, like, how was even more Oz this season?

How did that work for you, my? Oz is one of my favorites. I'm delighted to have more Oz. Oz obviously belongs not only in the opening credits, but in as many scenes as possible. And this was a really fun Oz season because, as we will talk about in covering this first half, when we've got some hormones running amok and some crushes pulling on our morality, we get the many wonderfully comedic moments with Oz and the classic Oz sarcasm and wit and his very specific tone. But we got some really heartfelt and deep scenes and moments with Oz as well. So that was a treat. I would be lying if I said that my main takeaway from the opening. credits was Oz's inclusion because I believe I texted you in real time. I was like,

this is diabolical to have, I mean, thrilled to see Giles and the credits always, but to put him, the rose, the Jenny Rose. I know. Oh my God. Like, it just been seeing that. Like, this is right and smart and ports me into the headspace I need to be in, but also it's downright diabolical to remind me of what he thought was about to happen before it was all lost. The good news is Giles gets to have new sexual experiences this season. That's right. And we'll talk about it. That's right.

Here's the quote that Jos Weed in the 20-year sort of look back at Buffy article that they did about season three. I'm going to read the full quote even though it's long. It proved that there was life after Romeo and Juliet. Our goal was to keep it fresh, which we did. and we got to explore faith and the dark side of being a slayer, and calling that whole thing into question was really exciting and the point. And knowing that we had a countdown on high school stories when we'd only been in high school for two and a half years,

there was discussion of whether we should be saved by the bell and they're in high school forever, and the decision to have them graduate meant for the first time that we were going to get into serious changes just in terms of the look and the feel. We also knew that Angel was going to be leaving. I guess, spoilers for the end of season three about the Vampire Slayer. He has a spin-off show.

Knowing we had limited time to play up both high school and the Angel Buffy romance sort of galvanized us and made us pull out all of our stops with what we could do. So this is Angels' last full season of Buffy. Wow. That's crazy. This is, I'll save the other one from Part 2. But it's not the only character we say goodbye to that, like, fundamentally, I think, alters the DNA of what Buffy is. Okay. Mallory, you promise to revise your feelings on Xander's behavior in the season two finale

based on how it's dealt with in season three. And I tried to keep a poker face, but I'm not sure I did because you were like, surely there will be fallout, immediate fallout at the beginning of season three. And there is not. And I'm not to say there never will be on the show, but there is not. There is, there are ramifications inside of the fact that it means that Buffy, when Buffy keeps her secret at the beginning of the season about Angel being back, a reason that she feels like she can't talk to, certainly Xander, of course,

but maybe also Willow, et cetera, et cetera, is because at the end of season two, if you recall, Zander shows up and Willow's like, hey, go tell Buffy I'm working on the spell and maybe we can still save Angel. And Zander says, says, go kick his ass. Willow says kick his ass. And so that is never clarified.

Buffy still thinks that that is what happened at the end of season two. Any thoughts on how that's being handled or if that informs how you feel about it? It's interesting because one of, I think, the real strengths of these early episodes and, like, I mean, really not even the early episodes because through revelations, certainly, and amends and, you know, really beyond. And I think this is a strength of Buffy in general. Something happens, and then the consequences are very present, right? Not only in our characters' lives, but in the text of the show. And so that was why I think I had, even just through two seasons, like the expectation.

I think a very reasonable one. Yeah. Yeah, that it would be part of, you know, I wasn't sure how long Buffy would be gone. And I think I might have even guessed like at the end on the season two pods, maybe three episodes. Which came back like a little sooner than I was anticipating, but ultimately I was glad, right? And then like Angel came back, I think, right around when I probably would have guessed that that seemed like the right amount of time. But, you know, because there is so much being held to account either by yourself or by your friends or by your watcher or somebody in your life, your parent, like, it feels like a little odd that this didn't happen with Sandra. And I think it could have happened in a number of ways.

I think certainly there would have been an opportunity in the, is this an intervention scene for, because we are kind of volleying accusations back and forth. like, well, you know, Buffy's basically spinning it back on Zander about his being about his jealousy, even though everybody in her life is sitting on the other side being like, we've got some notes. This is inside, inside Revelations. Or Dead Man's Party. Revelations. Dead Man's party, I thought, I think what happened in Dead Man's Party, adding any more elements to that would have been tough. But I think later in Revelations, once Angel is back and we're confronting Buffy about there,

there's an opportunity when we're sort of saying, well, what did you do? Or why are you doing it? or what are your motivations to put that on Xander at some point. But the other way that I think it could have happened is through Willow. Like, especially given the amount of time that Willow and Zander spent together assessing the evolving nature of feelings in this season, I think that would have been an interesting thing to do as well. So it's a little bit surprising that that didn't happen. But I will say, I think these are fascinating Zander episodes despite the absence of this.

Absolutely. I mean, like, Zander remains a character that I am frustrated by, but interested in. So, you know, and especially, you know, we'll get to the, I think the most famous Zander episode is in the back half of this season. So we'll spend more time talking about Zander then. There are some, something I think is interesting in season two is there are a couple, I think, season two, season three. There's a couple of season two doovers inside of season three, right? Anne and Dead Man's Party is like another swing at when she was bad. and it sounds like those episodes didn't really work for you,

but I do think they're a little more effective than when she was bad at a very similar idea. I still like that. I like all of these episodes. There's no episode in the stretch where, I mean, we'll get to this later, but we've removed, right? You've removed from our categories to like, what's the... Yeah, defend the bad episode that you love.

What's the funny bad one that you're willing to make the case for? Because there's frankly nothing here, there's nothing here that's really eligible for that kind of consideration. So noting like Anne, Dead Man's Party, Beauty and the Beast as feeling, relatively speaking, a tier below in this episode is more like, I don't know, in season one, those are among the episodes would be like, damn. Yeah, exactly. You know, and so it's more actually speaking to the overall increase in quality where like if the episodes that check in at the bottom of the power ranking in this set of 12 are like bees, that's pretty amazing. Because that means the rest of a, you know, and we've got some A pluses in the mix.

So that's impressive. It's that continuation of what we talked about in season two, which is like the beginning of a Buffy season, it deals with tying up what happened at the end of the last season. And really, you already mentioned the episode of Revelations, when everyone finds out that Angels back, those episode seven episodes are really like, we're in it now. So usually there's like a slow ramp up,

an introduction of sort of, you know, faith shows up. Yeah, we get three episodes, faith shows up. and then, you know, like we're really off the races after episode seven. I would make the case that we were really in it and Candy. Yeah, in it, I mean. You mean on top of a cop car. Okay. Also, the other do-over from season two to season three is that with love and respect to Kendra, the vampire slayer,

Faith is certainly a better iteration of what if there was another slayer and how she reflects Buffy. So this is section I'm calling Faith Part 1. We're going to get into Faith Part 2 because, you know, there's just like, a double arc for this character inside of this season, and we really hit it at the midpoint where we cut it off this season. So Faith Part 1, next time we'll do Faith Part 2 and The Mayor. That's going to be in our next episode. But this is Faith's introduction.

I want to shout out Douglas Petrie, who is on a lot of crucial faith episodes and is sort of credited as the writer on the writer's staff who really shaped the nature of this character. while developing the character Doug took inspiration from Elektra from Marvel Comics of Dairy Devil fame quote, for inspiration for faith,

I read Electra lives again about 100 times in a different teen punkier context, faith is so much like Electra, end quote. And it is no coincidence that Doug went on to executive produce and then show run Daredevil on Netflix. He was a showrun season 2 of Daredevil, which is the Elektra season.

So like, you know, this has been like his some kind of character psychology that he has been really deep in for for years. And I just love anytime he ever talks about faith and the creation of faith in what she meant to him and what she means to the story they're trying to tell, I just find everything he says really fascinating. I could definitely see without really having to strain for very long, faith feeding a sexual partner, a block of cheese from the tip of a knife while that partner was prone.

on the kitchen island. It's very easy to imagine. A little fuck-fuss in a boxing ring. Yeah, some sparring in a boxing ring turns into bucking. Why not? It sounds like classic faith. Okay. But on the faith front, and this is the first of these twin themes that I wanted to talk about,

the season starts with a clear buffy foil inside of the character of Lily, who we met as Chanterell in season two in the episode, Lie to Me. She comes back here in Anne. She is another, like, lost young woman. and she takes over the name of Anne, which is Buffy's assumed identity in episode one after Buffy leaves town. So that's like from the very beginning

we're doing mirror, mirror storytelling, right? And then we'll return to that idea again and again with like Cordelia and Buffy and Homecoming, the doppelgangers of the Wishverse, Gwendolyn Post and part two, spoilers, Wesley Windham Price, and Ripper himself for Giles, right? I cannot wait.

Some baffling ideas. Oh my God. Speaking of Beauty of the Beast, we have Pete for Oz, we have Amy for Willow again and again and again. But like faith is obviously the biggest, baddest, foiled them all. You and I love to talk about this theme. Especially like when we talked about Loki, like what does it mean to meet yourself? There's like, you know, more literal versions of that inside of a story like the Loki TV show. But what does it mean to be a slayer and meet another slayer and have that slayer have a different relationship with the power? that you have or the sexuality that you have or all these other things. So this idea of like there before the grace, which we talked about a lot and we talked about stranger things. Like who is Buffy without Giles as her watch? She had to watch Giles die in front of her, which canonically Buffy watched Merrick, her watcher die, you know, in the movie, which, you know, it leads to Giles being her

watching her. If she didn't have the Scoobies, if she didn't have Joyce, she was just on her own living at a crappy motel, you know, what would, what would Buffy have become? And this is like a direct quote from Marty Knox in. Quote, we often talk about how faith was Buffy's shadow self, the same elements, but elements, but gone to a dark place, really fun to contrast the two. So what do you, like, Mallory, what does this theme mean for you? Were you surprised to find it present in so many episodes this season? And what was your first impression of faith? quickly, just in case Amy doesn't come up again.

Let me just say. I guess I'm going to put this in funniest moment. Okay, good. The leg has Buffy checking in at the end on how Amy was doing. And Willis like, really can't get it. Just getting great with her wheel. And it's like, I mean, like, any progress with the spell to turn her back? Very, very funny and very good.

One of the things that I also really like about, I quite enjoyed The Wish in general. I thought that was just a great, great, great. episode, one of my favorites from the stretch, and such an incredible concept that connects to what we're talking about here with foils, because whether it's a foil or an alternate reality or any number of other things, this aspect of like ripple effects, whether that stems from a person in your orbit or a choice that anybody makes, right? How do those consequences span and sprawl and influence the fabric of your reality? Inside of that episode, we also get to meet a different Buffy, right? And so that was also just lip scar and cargo pants and all. Yeah. What is Buffy like at this

stage in her life if she hasn't had Giles as her watcher? If she hasn't had Angel in her life, if Willow and Zander haven't been her best friends, it's so stark the distinction, right? So that was like, I thought, really bracing and effective to give us that, that is more of a like actual, like if Loki met a variant of Loki, right? that was great. And I'll be returning to Sandra and Willow in that episode. Obviously. Obviously.

Obviously. I think faith is just fantastic. Like, it's one of my favorite characters so far. I think I'll be judicious with my comments today because it's such a rich text in the second half of this season. We won't spoil why, but there's so much to talk about then. But I think that this setup here from you is perfect in terms of why this is so effective. right away. First of all, it's a fun performance. The writing is great. It's sexy. It's spunky. It's fierce. It's feisty. Like, I really, even though the particular execution of everything with Kendra, as we talked about in

season two, was imperfect. As we discussed on those pods, I really, like, was riveted by not just presenting to us as viewers these ideas and these questions, but presenting to Buffy directly, these questions of like, well, what does it mean if somebody feels really differently about this burden responsibility, but also opportunity, these gifts, right? And that was so interesting, like, right away. And with faith, I think it's just kind of right away at like God tier level. And part of that is because the relationship between Faith and Buffy is so fascinating. But also it's because, like, I think Faith's introduction in the third episode, right on the heels of the really brutal things that everybody says to each other in episode two and

Dead Man's Party. And I think the very fair, very fair feedback in that Buffy, I think the way that some people, Zander, most of all, express it. I've got some feedback, some thoughts, and some notes. But I think that a lot of the things, you know, I'll spoil that I have like what Willow says to Buffy in that episode at the end in their fight is one of my category picks because I thought it was like really beautiful but also really important for Buffy to have to confront what not just what all these people mean to and can give her, but what she means to them, right? And the effects she has on them. That moment where Buffy's like, I know you're worried about me. Will's like, no. What am I going through? Yeah, that was great. So I'm excited to talk about that more.

But faith comes in on the heels of that reckoning, right? And not only is it immediately like, wait, tell me some more about naked wrestling that alligator, like, and all of that, right? You're just right away, like, it's just like a little spark of electricity and the, the plush couches at the bronze. But, like, you know, bringing faith to dinner and Buffy's like, man, it's like, it's creepy, you know? And Joyce is like, does anybody else think that? And the season is so expert, I think. There are really tense, sometimes very, very, very painful moments between characters. but I think it's also like the season is so interested and invested in people saying to each other,

you sure? Yeah. Like, let's interrogate that a little bit. And I think faith unlocks a lot of that. So I'm excited to talk about Faith in Buffy and just Faith in general because Kendra's like there's almost something holy and righteous about how Kendra thinks about the-Buffie is like the bad girl compared to Kendra. And then here's Faith on the other side of the spectrum to make Buffy look like the saint. Yeah, yeah. And I think it's really cool to sort of sima. Faith and Kendra both relish being the slayer in a way that Buffy doesn't always. Yeah, yeah. But it manifests in such a radically distinct fashion, both compared to each other, Faith and Kendra, and also to your point, compared to Buffy. And you use the word power already, but like the way that faith embraces that power luxuriates in it. But then what we get to, people,

feel back layer, layer after layer, over the episodes and over our time with Faith of like, well, what are Faith's insecurities? What are Faith's wounds, right? That drive that. I love her introduction because she comes in with a lie and with all this bravado. And like, she'll never drop that bravado. That is like something that is part of her. But when we see at the back end of that episode, she goes from, you know, all of Faith's outfits are like absolutely iconic and amazing.

But the shirt we meet her in has what my friends, Jenny and Kristen, referred to as the boob window. It's just this, like, bizarre piece of clothing. But the end of the episode when she's, when the truth has been revealed and she turns into someone who is like a terrified teenager, she has this like soft baby pink underneath the sort of like, it's like a black shirt with like a baby pink sleeves. And it's just sort of like this like softness underneath the like, vinyl and leather and black and dark red and on like all the lipstick and everything that she wears. And it's just like seeing that in her very first episode is so important to us understanding who faith will be and how those insecurities are always there underneath the hypersexuality

and the bravado and everything that drives her and where that sends her for the rest of the season is really interesting. We are a retiring accent Thunderdome for this season because with love and respect to Liam in amends, no one is touching Eliza Dushke's quote-unquote Boston accent. A truly extraordinary piece of work from Eliza here. I think that the way that Canapay was pronounced as to run for the money at least, but fair.

Totally fair. Here's the big question. There before the grace, here's the question I will never feel right about. which is why they let Faith live alone in that motel when, like, there's room in the summer's home or, you know, there's, like, various places, you know, the Watchers Council we have endless notes for, obviously. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But even if the Watchers Council decides to be derelict in their duty towards Faith, one of their slayers, one of their soldiers out here, waging war, fighting the war instead of waging the war, as Giles, delineates and hopeless. These kind folks that we've come to love, the Scoopies and Giles, why are they not taking better care of faith inside of their community?

What do you think? Any thoughts on this? I almost like imagine as my head canon that Joyce off screen at some point, much like she was like, let's have faith a dinner. When a different Joyce and Hopper talked about how they went to high school with Henry off screen. Exactly. Just like that.

You know, invite Faith over for Christmas dinner that maybe one of the suggestions was like, ask Faith if she wants to stay in the guest room. And the Buffy was just like, no. No. Or like, sure, I'll ask. She's not interested in the never asked. Everybody else, I think it's like, I am, Giles not making sure that Faith had superior lodging is a little bit of a puzzler. But yeah, this is, there's something else I want to say on this, but I'll.

I'll save it for the second pot. I think this observation, while very, very fair in terms of a question we ask now of these characters, sets up something very interesting in the back half as a result. Completely true. I do have a, on the endless notes we have for the Watchers Council, I do have a bumper sticker that it's not currently on my car, but maybe we'll soon be that says like pay Buffy Summers, you cowards, right? Like the Watchers Council exists.

They're having retreats in the... Cotswolds. And no one is paying these teenage girls to, like, fight vampires or be able to afford a nice place to live, you know, just something to think about. It's a great note. And here's another one. The fact that Giles, obviously, he's not, he's not at this retreat. You know, we'll get to watch what his packing list looks like later, which is something very

fun. And I also, this is not council business, this is looking for buffy business. But in Anne, I did just love that little detail that he was constant. like picking up and getting on a plane to go look from Buffy somewhere. So sad and wonderful. But when he was like, serene, you know, horse riding, hiking, punting. It's a great honor to be invited or so, I'm told. And then the way was such longing, he's just like, I love a good kayak. At some point, we need to see it. We need to see Giles in the kayak. Do we get to? No. God damn it. Sorry. I don't think we ever see him on any kind of boat is, it would be my memory.

just rip the bandaid off. I guess it's good you told me. But I am crushed. Yeah. Don't hold your breath for Giles in the kayak. All right. Um, we had a couple emails on this front. You know, we've already mentioned faith, faith sexuality. Eliza Dushku became like a massive thing off of this season of Buffy. You know, and then she did bring it on and a number of other things. But like this is, this is her introduction to the world. In a season, I'm going to, I'm going to read directly what I wrote in this notes, the notes here. In a season marked by Buffy's prissy. pastel, inability to act on her sexual feelings for Angel, faith's dark leather and jewel-tone, overt sexuality is key, key, key two emails we got for the bad babies. One from Hazel, which genuinely, with love and respect, to beautiful Hazel really cracked me up because Hazel was describing how she's watching Buffy, she's showing her mom Buffy for the first time, right?

And her dad's just like kind of dip in and out of the room, as dads do. And she's like, dad never, like, knows anyone's name, knows no actors, like cannot identify anyone. And then he walks in the room and he's like, hey, that's Elijah Dushku. And mom and I were like, oh, you know, dad's like little crush on Eliza Dushku or whatever. But it's just sort of like, Eliza Dushkoooo is quite formative to so many people that I wager.

So many people who cannot name a single thing from the 90s can name Eliza Dushku. So I love that Hazel's dad was here to represent that for us. but it really cracked me up that, like, she and her mom were like, I'm sorry, what? Who do you know here in this show? He has no idea who is there, Michelle Geller is. But he knows Eliza Dishko, and I love that. I mean, just incredibly reminiscent, honestly, in band candy when Cordelia is talking about the effect of the candy on her parents and, you know, her mom, it's the borrowing her clothes

and the light of her pants. But then she's like, Dad just locked himself in the bathroom with old copies of Esquire. Hazel, I'm sorry. Thank you for sharing. Okay. And then Kayla, our listener, Kayla, is asking. the really important questions. Journalism boots on the ground from Kayla.

Kayla says, I need to know what Mal thinks about faith revealing the existence of what I call the post-slage double H's, aka quote from faith. Isn't it funny how slaying always makes you hungry and horny? Mallory, how'd you feel? Won't surprise you to hear that this is one of the clips

that I've selected for today for a later category. And guess what? Just because we're talking about it now, doesn't mean we won't be playing it later. This was every now and then, I take pictures, you know, we text and talk about things all the time, but I think frankly, pretty weird habit I have. I take pictures of my TV when like ideally paused with the character making a certain expression and if I can get it just right, the subtitles of what they've said.

And this was, of course, one of the first things that I sent you from this season and I was just like instant icon, right? Like this is basically like, I think that the new log line for the pod for my life. I mean, it's just perfect. I also love that not just everybody's reaction because, like, you know, Willa looks at Buffy because Faith has said first, God, I can eat a horse. Then she says, isn't it crazy? I just always makes you hungry and horny. And then Willow thinks of Buffy. And Buffy's like, well, sometimes I crave a non-fat yogurt after it. Prissy and pastel. I'm telling you. So, so good. So, yeah. This is. This is just like one of those perfect moments where you're like, all right, I have a new, I have a new mantra for my own life.

This is really succinctly summed up something core, but also I'm just like this character is an important part of my experience instantly because of this line. Faith is a thought leader. What can you say? Because we are not like, you know, as we usually do, we're pulling out sort of two episodes to talk about because this experience is catered to Valerie. those are two fairly gile-centric episodes that we will be talking about this first half. So I do want to pause here and really quickly talk about Angel, right? Angels return, aka how to not piss Joanna off with a fake out slash impermanent death, right?

Usually, this really pisses me off. But I don't know if it's because Joss was the first to do it and I was still like wide-eyed and innocent. But you spend the end of season two just being like, oh my God, Buffy had to kill Angel and he's gone forever. How sad? And then, you know, three episodes into season. Season three, Angel's back,

iconic entrants. The cloddering is here. The shimmering glutes are here. We're just like dropping... Sweety tush. From hell, but it looks like from heaven, just like, you know, he's back. It doesn't last very long.

Oh, God. But Angel does come back from hell feral. Yes. Which is how John Snow should have returned from the dead, and I will die on this hell. This was my number one, like when John Snow died, and we all talked about how he was going to come back. Angel coming back was like my my touchstone.

I was like he has to come back with consequences. There has to be. And then you know what? Thrones decided not to do that. And that's fine. That's their choice. But like I feel like if you die, there has to be a cost. And for Angel, it was centuries of torment in hell.

Right? Like do you feel like that, like those consequences really had an impact? Or do you feel like they sort of breezed past them kind of quickly? I think that revelations for Buffy and then amends for Angel are like two of the strongest episodes to date and the most, I think, like, textually and thematically interesting. So, yeah, I think that this was really successfully done. And I like the way that we're like learning as we go. We're not for everything, right, the plot of just like how exactly did this happen. What does it mean?

Who knows when? But then for Angel, the question of why and the way that this looms over his journey in Amends in particular, which I found quite compelling. Amends is one of my favorite episodes of all time. And honestly, like, it's only because Ban Candy is so important to who you are as a person that Amends is not the other episodes we're doing. But Amends, which is just like pure soap opera, is, I think one of my favorite Buffy episodes of all time. I just think it's incredible. A lot of my category picks are from Amends. It's really, really, really great.

I'm curious, do you, are there, you know, there's so much scholarship out there around Buffy, dissertations, podcasts, various things. Any, how much scholarship is there about how central handcuffs are from both. Childs and Joyce. A lot of manacles. And Buffy and Angel. Yeah. What level of detailed work has been done to explore.

this. Probably as much as there's been an examination of like how important is shirtless, sweaty Tai Chi to the experience of coming back from hell. This is a wild scene. A lot of shirtless Tai Chi in this season. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But so like to your point about how the information is doled out, I think it's also, you know, to this question of like, is Anne an essential episode? On several levels, there are interesting things that are happening. But the lore that we learned there about how time passes different. in hell sets up for us to understand what Angel went through and why he comes back as as feral and tormented as he as he does you know yeah and I love to like a couple things on

that front I love that when he first at the at the end of episode four after um we've dispensed of Pete right and angel the way that he just cracks and falls to his knees and clutches Buffy and like just squeaks out her name. And like there's the recognition and the emotional pull, even though as we then see, he is not even remotely himself, but she can still draw that out of him. That was great.

Sarah's face too in that moment, like Buffy's face of just sort of like the, because when she first sees him and he like attacks her in the woods, there's like angels back and he's. still evil, but it's like angels back and he's angel again. Yes. And he's got the manacles already here. Like, you know, we're off the races.

Let's get to it. Yeah, that was great. And then on the time front with what it is like in a demon dimension and a hell dimension, one of the things that we really like talking about, whether it's uncovering this show or something like interview with the vampire or like a Loki story, the good place. Like either when a character is immortal or in some sort of sphere where they can exist in perpetuity. Who wants to live forever. Yeah.

That aspect, who wants to live forever. How do you view or value a mortal life, right? It is brilliant to introduce an element like this that makes us feel for a character who has lived for centuries already. and I will presumably live on for longer. Who knows? I have another television show to watch now. Well, what's the... We talk about the scary underbelly of that,

the dark underbelly of that. It's watching so many people you love die over time, right? It's, you know, the I choose immortal life like a calculus, right? There's that. But, like, well, if you can live that long, either in your own life, you have the experience of a lot of pain. But then for Angel, you could pound that by being a lot of, in this dimension, and then centuries added on to the centuries, where he's already carried

all of this with him, of just abject suffering and torment that for other people, you know, that's passed in the blink of an eye. I just thought was a really smart way to play with the idea of time for a character where that's already really on our mind. It's obviously like, you know, with Lily and Richie, it's like, boy, this dude got fucking old because he went into this hell dimension for like an afternoon. Yeah. Very tough.

But for Angel, it's a blip for him still. and yet what is the cost? And also the idea of like, okay, so we watched Angel do all this horrible and jealous do all this horrible shit in season two, kill Jenny Callender, among other things, right? And, you know, so for people at home who are like, he can't be let, you know,

for the Xander's at home, for even the jealouses at home who were like, he tortured me for hours for fun, he can't be let off the hook. Well, you're like, okay, but how long does he have to be punished? He was punished for hundreds of years in hell. Is that enough time?

And like the complicated question that this season asks, and then Buffy will continue to ask in terms of a vampire with and without a soul, is, is Angel responsible for the crimes of Angelus, right? Yeah. Several of the characters don't let him off the hook. He doesn't let himself off the hook in amends especially, right? And then that gives us the audience,

the freedom to decide for ourselves whether or not he's worthy of redemption. And I really love that because if he just came back in a room, was like, oh, Angels here, yay, we at home might be going, excuse me. Yeah, like, what a rock. Does Jenny's death mean nothing to you? You know? Or if he was not allowed redemption, that's also a less interesting story. Yeah, for sure.

It all pivotes on amends, which, again, I just think is a tremendous bit of storytelling. Or if he comes back and he's a husk and he's a hundred years old, he's about to actually die when he takes the next step off the curve, it's like, he comes back still in his eternal peak and prime, it has to carry all this and has to. shimmering glutes. Yeah. Just boy. I think this idea of like, also this feeds back into inside of a, this is like stealthily

an amend section, right? Like inside of amends where Angel talks about and jealous, but also Liam, right? It's not the demon in me that he's killing. It's the man, right? I love that line. Like I was a bad person before I was a bad vampire. So this idea of his refracted, in this idea, in this season of doubles, and foils. Angel versus Angelus versus Liam as this sort of like, who are these three men?

And what do they owe each other? Yeah. And how the show plays with Spike as my guy, right? As a demon who, you know, without getting into too much spoilers, but I think you can tell just by like the judge in season two being like there's no humanity in him and Angelus, but Spike and Drusilla are just sort of lousy with it, right? They're crawling with humanity, with love, all this sort of stuff like that. So Spike, what kind of person was Spike before he became a vampire versus what kind of person was Liam before he became Angelis? And how that dictates how the soul or soul remnants or all these sort of things interact with a demon. I think it's just like a really interesting thing that the show. I think it's figuring out as it goes along.

I don't think they had all these ideas sorted out at the beginning. But I think it's key to think about this now. as we think about the show going forward. So that's just a tease for my constant spike obsession. To quote Spike, I might be love's bitch, but at least I'm man enough to admit it, you know? Compare that to the harbinger's the first evil who's wearing Jenny's face at this moment, you know,

and angels like, I never read a chance. To die of syphilis? Different vibes. Different vibes. Different vibes is incredibly. Okay. So this is a section we're going to talk about, even though we just stealthily did an amends section. We're going to stealthily, we're going to talk about two of our favorites. And we've chosen season two episode six, ban candy, written by Jane Espenson, directed by Michael Lang. And then we're going to talk about season two episode 12, Helpless, written by David Fury, directed by James Connor.

Okay, so ban candy. The episode tells us in all of the bad babies who know Buffy were so excited for Valerie to get to. I joy in my lifetime when you told me you were watching Band Candy, like genuinely joy in my lifetime. Before we get to all of Mallory's thoughts, which is key, so key to all of our experiences through Buffy here. First and foremost, I just want to say, welcome to Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Jane Spenson,

a crucial member of the writing staff, who has like, once you know the episodes that she's written, Banned Candy, Gingerbread, later this season, earshot, in season four, Pangs, a new man, superstar, conversations with dead people, storyteller, and the infamous Double Meat Palace,

they can all be winners. But Jane has like a very specific kind of even zippier than weed and zippy style to like how she writes her episodes. And so I feel like you can tell when it's a Jane episode and this is such a perfect introduction for that tone that she brings to the show.

An opportunity to meet a young Joyce as well, which I think is important, because this is actually a very good Joyce season, like a really good choice season. Will you be slaying, Joyce asks in a different episode? Mallory Rubin. Take us through your experience watching Band Candy. So I've not yet seen Double Meat Palace, but let me just say when I got to watch Band Candy after having watched it once, for the second time, it was Double Meat Palace for me.

Okay, so when we started doing the rewashed, Immediately I texted you about how hot I thought Giles was. It was on a thread we were on with Mahoney. He was like, I'm paraphrasing, he was like, we should have seen this coming and you were like, I did. Right? Like, nothing about my experience with Giles has surprised you at all. You know me well. I mentioned that to say, there are moments in life where you feel seen and known and understood.

And posted on Instagram, our text. Part, part, in the interest of full disclosure, not all. We still have careers to maintain. Yeah, not all of those good for public consumption, but part of our text exchange after I watched Band Candy for the first time, like immediately after. Yeah. Took some screenshots posted on Instagram. And, you know, nowhere in there did it say the words Ban Candy, but I was basically like,

this is the most important hour of television in my life. life. Yeah. And forever changed, et cetera, et cetera. And I just want to say to the, like,

I don't know, I didn't do the math. I didn't crunch the numbers, but I'm going to say like 92% of the commenters, the bad babies, the rider dies who were like, band candy. Yeah.

For those who like, maybe are listening to this podcast and not watching Buffy, that's fine. You're allowed to do that. Or, you know, don't remember what band Candy is. Band Candy is the episode where in a

complicated pyramid scheme of events, the adults of Sunnydale are given chocolate that turns them into horny teenagers, in some cases more like toddlers, it depends, but like immature versions of themselves. And that includes, most crucially, Rupert Giles and Joyce Summers, who turn into teenage versions of themselves and are quite horny for each other inside of this episode. We get a Ripper version of Giles in this episode. The accent changes, the look changes, the attitude changes. It's some incredible television.

It is what a lot of people wanted Mallory to experience when they found out how she felt about Giles. This was better than porn. This was just so thrilling and so satisfying. any genuine and deep way. And I should say, like, as you know, it's canon, it's House Far canon. I find stuffy Giles, you know, as people like to say, incredibly sexy and incredibly hot. You and Willow both would put his photo up in your locker. Yeah.

There was something about seeing him in the white T-shirt with the sleeve folded around the pack of cigarettes and the must-up hair and he takes the glasses off and he smoke and cigarettes and he's bopping his head, listening to Wreckers on the floor. Yeah. He's breaking down shop windows to go get Joyce, the item that she covets. He's disarming a cop. He is obviously in some sections gently. I should finish the fit watch, the jeans, the boots, and the plaid shirt wrapped and tied around his waist.

Gently kissing Joyce in some sequences like at the nursery, like at the hospital. very passionately kissing her and some other things at other points of the episode we're going to talk about all this more. Just seeing him in this Ripper element was one of the most rewarding experiences

of my life as a television viewer and for a lot of reasons. One, because it's sexy and he looks hot. Not that deep, right? But also, because genuinely, I think that the concept of this episode. It was fun to see Ethan again. It's interesting to watch like the Mr. Trick Mayor dynamic developing, all that. Snyder is really fun in this episode.

Brutal beat for Snyder and he's like trying to pick up Joyce. You know, he's like, you guys like go and studies her eyes. Yeah. Dude, have you seen? Have you seen? She's like, have you seen him? Also, have you seen me in this outfit? Prudal stuff for Snyder. But, like, I, we've talked about this before in, like, other stories, but one, I really love when characters have to, like, look at their parents or their teachers or something like that in a new way. I have really vivid memories of, like, being at the mall in, you know, high school and seeing a teacher there and just being like, a what? Yeah. And it's interesting because I think I have a slightly different relationship to that kind of aspect of this than as a child of divorce. Like my parents were just like dating when I was growing up, right?

So I was kind of always confronting that in a different way. But I still just, I like that and I like watching you. So inside of this episode, obviously, it's really, really fun and titillating to watch Joyce and Giles behave this way, etc. But I really loved, you know, like Oz's like a sobering mirror. It's just really fun to watch the other characters. Willis, like, you know, is there a doctor here? Then her doctor gets up shortless on the stage. She's like, I think that is my doctor.

You know, all of that is just really great and really fun. And Giles is just, I mean, this is like, he is walking sex in this episode. He just is. So something I warned Mallory we would be doing is I'm going to ask her to rank the 10 horniest moments in Band Candy. I could not limit my list to 10. So I will give you 15 candidates. Okay, I'm excited. This is the caption that you sent me last night when you were watching Big Candy.

It was already on my list. Yeah. But when Joyce and Giles are lying to Buffy and claiming that they're trying to figure out how to coordinate her schedule, the line is it'll be tight, but I think we can fit it. Yep. Right? Yep. That's going to be high on the list. I'm telling you right now.

Okay. It's not number one, though, but it's going to be high on the list. I really, like my initial list, I was just just keeping a rolling list as I rewatched the episode was like 30 entries long. So some of these are consolidated. So I'm just going to give one entry on the list. It's just going to be the fit, which is the rolled up cigarettes in the sleeve, the tied up flannel shirt, the absolutely filthy earring, the lewd eyeliner, the hair, all of it together, right? Like, that's one. Okay. Listening in record to records and Giles apartment and lighting two cigarettes at once, one of which is for Joyce, right? Yeah.

Joyce saying, so how come they call you Ripper? And he says, what you love? like to know. That's number one. I'm sorry, that's number one. That's going to be number one, I think. The B&E just to get Joyce the coat that she wants, right? Grabbing Joyce and laying her down on the top of a cop car. Oh, my God.

Grabbing, like clutching her to him, right? Yeah. Later, Joyce producing the handcuffs with Buffy saying, Never Tell Me, right? Very memorable. Really good. Yep. Giles's shirt rides up when he gets excited about Ethan being attacked and he sort of fist pumps in the air and says yes, and his shirt, which he has like cut the bottom off of to make a sort of like more cropped version of rides up. Just thought you might want to enjoy that. Okay. His accent. Yeah. You're my slayer. Go knock his teeth down his throat. Stuff like that. Stuff like that. Okay. Hey, you leave alone. Stuff like that. Okay. The kisses. I'm going to, I put the, I put the thing. I put. I'm going to, I put the thing. I'm going to. I put. I. I'm going to. I. I

this under one bucket, making out with Joyce so hard that they didn't notice a chocolate-induced riot next to them and smooching Joyce gently in the hospital, both together, right? Oh my God, that one is so hot. He lets out a low, I'm going to say almost like a guttural Joyce and grabs her hand and pulls her through the crowd to get to the chocolate, right? That was pretty high up for me, personally, honestly. Welcome to the list, Ethan Rain. I'm putting Ethan Rain, I'm putting Ethan Rain's slutty red blouse that he wears in this episode on the list. It is like billowy, buttoned low, very good. He deserves to be on the list.

We've mentioned this before when we were doing Giles Horny moments, that we were a little perturred by how often violent moments ended up on our horny Giles list. But still, Giles with a crowbar standing over Ethan and or kicking an acolyte in the face inside of this episode, I think were two good moments. And then lastly, Giles sopping wet in a white. T-shirt, which is how the episode closes out.

Very memorable. Okay. I'm going to send this list. The wet t-shirt contest is important. Hmm. Okay. All right. Boy, first of all, let me say thank you.

Thank you. I think I probably will take this list that you just sent me and... Laminate it? Laminate it, carried in my wallet, carrying in my underwear. Maybe I haven't printed on a quilt and wrap it around me at night. in bed, all of the above, perhaps. Okay. I mean, the answer is kind of like they're all number one because, you know, Giles just, he has it. He does. And it's on display so powerfully here. I think I'm going to put, it'll be tight, but we can, oh, God, how am I going to keep track of

this? Let's see. Okay. I'm going to keep that. I'm going to put that at, let's say, four. Okay. I think let's put that at four. I'll start putting numbers over here. That feels right. Okay. I think that the, oh, man, or should that be five? Because how do I not have the fit in the top three?

Like, it has to be. Just the fit is so key to the aura, right? I agree. Just oozing. Okay, so let's put the, hmm, we might have to change some of these numbers. Let's put just the fit. and all of the various accessories. Let's put that at three for now.

Okay. And I want to put, oh, boy, this is so hard, much like the erection that can fit. I kind of want to put, so how come they call you Ripper, wouldn't you like to know at one? Honestly, because it is so fucking filthy. It is. I really, I gasped and rewound and listened to him say that I'm not going to tell you how many times in a row. And guess what? My husband was just sitting right there next to me on the couch as I did it.

Did Adam get to rewind any faith scenes? Did he get to request any repeats? He didn't do any wants on his own time. Okay. So that's number one. I think it has to be. I guess that means I'll probably put grabbing Joyce and laying her down on the top of the cop cart too. right?

Because that was like that's not the last we've heard of it obviously that took my breath away okay so we have how come so how call me Chloe Ripper number one grabbing choice number two

the fit number three it'll be tight but we think we can fit it number four that's where we are right now okay at number five let's do the handcuffs at number five never tell me

number five Just so good. Let's do the records at six. Great. I thought that was so hot. Very good. That was, boy, that really took me to a time in life where you're just like, let's sit here and listen to music and get high and definitely want to fuck each other.

Oh, to be young. And then let's do. And Joyce trying to like be so cool and like impressive. Very sweet. That's great. Joy's, it is an amazing Joyce episode. I love the Bert Reynolds line later. Wait, so all the kisses are bundled in with the cop car one.

That's all the kisses are there. Well, there's making out with Joyce so hard they didn't notice a chocolate induced right next of them and smooching Joyce gently in the hospital. So the kisses versus the cop car ravishing, I would say, are two different entries. Okay, then I need to, I already need to amend the list, I think, then. I think I need to put the other kisses at six and move. the records down to seven. Got it.

Because I thought that the kisses were very memorable. Buffy walking past them and making asses incredible. It's just, boy, it's very sexy and there's like a gentleness later that I found quite compelling. And then obviously the tender smooches in the hospital is just like. Yeah, I mean, honestly, six feels really low to me for the kisses. But I don't, what do I, what can I move? What did I have above it could move down?

You can't. Nothing. The top five is kind of unimpeachable, honestly. It's true. So we're up to seven, so I have three more. I have three more slots. Ripper has a slot, and I have three more slots. Hmm.

With respect to Ethan, he's not going to make my top ten, obviously. I think it's appropriate that he's here and that we remark upon. You know, I guess, wait, can I ask you, is Giles' tattoo, speaking of Ethan, is that tattoo being visible part rolled up in the fit? We'll put it in the fit. Yeah. Okay, great, great. Because I probably would have had to have that as an entry otherwise.

Sure. Let's do sopping wed in the T-shirt at 8. Great. I'm sick. I was like, you know what's really unpleasant when you fall into a pool or some body of water in jeans? I was like, take those off. Take them off. Who walks around in wet jeans?

Come on. It's just not practical. It's the classic Sawyer. Exactly. There's a very, there's a big. This is not the time or place because you will. never be watching another episode of Landman, but there's a really big we're wearing jeans and pools thing happening on Landman right now.

Maybe I'll send you some. There's a gift exchange at the end of this year. If you want to burn another episode on making me watch Landman, you know what you have to do. We'll see. We'll see. Okay, so I have two more spots. You've got accent, a shirt writing up when he says joy is really low and grabs her hand and then general violence.

Let's do the Joyce. And the Beanie. Okay. Let's do Joyce at nine. Yep. and violence attend let's just let's stay at our corner why abandon it now how does that feel I mean I'm going to read the list back to you and I'm going to see how you feel about it okay yeah we're going to start at the bottom number 10 general violence yeah number eight that low gutter old

joyce number nine number eight joyle's sobbing wet in the white t-shirt number seven listening to records in jowles apartment lighting two cigarettes at once one of which is for joyce number six making out with Joyce so hard they didn't notice a chocolate-induced right next to them and switching Joyce gently in the hospital. Number five, Joyce producing the handcuffs. Number four, it'll be tight, but we think we can fit in. Number three, the fit including the cigarettes, the earring, the eyeliner, the tattoo, the flannel, etc., etc. Number two, grabbing Joyce and laying her down on top of the cop car and ravishing her. And number one, so how come they call you Ripper what you like to know? How do you feel?

Is that your list? I think that feels really good. I also want to note that in the stretch where we are on the, after he has disarmed the cop, she is setting, he reminds her of Bert Reynolds, and then he places her down on the hood of the cop car to ravish is a perfect word. Joyce removes her gum. Yeah. Which is like an element of this and just sends it in to another place. And we are, it is time to.

You fuck. Very memorable. I think that list feels right. Are there any of the contenders that didn't make it that you just, you think it's, it's not right. No, I think you're out in the top ten. You're obviously the authority on this, and I think you've done admirably. Snoring, gasping during sleep, feeling fatigued, ask your doctor about Zepbound, terseptite. The first and only FDA approved prescription medicine for moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA, and adults with obesity.

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Annette Benning and Ed Harris now streaming on Paramount Plus. Snoring, gasping during sleep, feeling fatigued, ask your doctor about Zeppbound, terseptite. The first and only FDA-approved prescription medicine for moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA, adults with obesity. Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA, and obesity to improve their OSA. Zetbound is approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5, or 15 milligram injection.

Zetbound contains terseptitite and should not be used with other terseptitite containing products or any GLP1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Zetbound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pins or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to it or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop set bound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia.

if you're nursing, pregnant, plan to be, or taking birth control pills. Taking Zepound with a sulfonal urea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsened kidney problems. Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-9 or visit Zepbound.lily.com. All right, and on that note of scholarship from Mallory of the top 10 hornies moments, so Van Candy, that brings us to Season 2, Episode 12, Helpless, which we are. We're going to start with a clip.

You have a father's love for the child, and that is useless to the cause. It would be best if you had no further contact with the slave. I'm not going anywhere. Buffy's like battered face while they're talking. It's just devastating. Okay, so there are any number of season three episodes we could have chosen here. There's like amends as we already discussed, Revelations. Revelations as in episode seven, we noted that was a trend.

We did Angel, which is episode seven in season one. We did Lie to Me, which is episode seven in season two. Revelations is an excellent episode seven in season three. But given like how much we care about Giles and the Giles Buffy relationship, it felt like helpless. What was really interesting to me, this is like a stunner of an episode to me. In my memory, I think Crollic is a really, really good villain of the week. Scary. And all of this stuff with Giles and Buffy is like devastating, but really,

crucial for another big theme of this season which we'll talk about. I was stunned to find out that a lot of people when they do their full rankings of Buffy episodes actually have this ranked pretty middling, pretty low.

There are episodes like the Wish actually is often very high up on people's lists and stuff like that. Yeah, it's a great episode. But I was surprised that this is not like a more and I think it's because trying to figure out why. I think it's because there's like a couple of other side plots inside of this episode that maybe make it feel less like a like cohesive core drilled down on this.

But when you get to the Giles Buffy, the Watchers Council, all that stuff. That stuff is so, so strong. Mallory, what was your initial impression reaction to watching Helpless? I think this episode is fantastic. I really loved it. Spoilers again, will come up in a number of my category. And, you know, I love the concept here. I think this idea of just removing even the Giles element, Buffy confronting,

Buffy being forced to confront life without powers. And the way that you can spend years of your life, afternoons, evenings, mornings, resenting some aspect of the bird. and you have to carry what you have to do, right? Right. The weight that is on you. And then when you were confronted with having that ripped away, like, who are you? Right.

So I thought that, and I thought that the things Buffy said about that and Buffy's journey of introspection in this episode, in terms of just the idea of powers and being the slayer and her role in her body, in her home, in her school, and her community, and her life in the world was really brilliant. you add on to this the council and this idea of like, I am a part of a thing that treats me as a tool to be wielded, a box to check off a list, right? A right of passage, well, sure, but I'm a person, you know?

Like that aspect of it, you were a part of a thing that you don't have access to. And what does it mean for not only other people, but a body and institution? to attempt to govern the flow of your life. Fascinating. And then, of course, the Giles part of it. And I loved every scene between them in this episode. I was like moved to tears more than once in this episode. I won't get into the particular lines here just because I'll come back to them with some of my categories.

But like, a number of real doozies that hit me hard in real time and have stuck with me since I know Will. he'll stick with me. Giles, the way that he is confronting his responsibility and what Buffy means to him versus what his role as a watcher means to him, not only is that just like incredibly moving and sad and harrowing and you're with Buffy. You're like, how could you do this thing? How could you think this was right? You know?

And how could you justify this to yourself? And then, of course, when he shifts into a rejection. and into a defense, and in terms of his relationship with Buffy, she's like, you're wondering, like, is it too late? What has been ruptured here? Is this betrayal? Yeah. Can you come back from this?

Yeah. What has been ruptured here that maybe will be difficult to repair, right? Like, when you chip away at trust, you can't always put the marble back into place. Sometimes the veins are too deep. And so introducing that element, I think, is really harrowing and fascinating. But the thing I loved about it most, obviously, it's twofold. One, just thinking about their father-daughter. relationship, especially in this stretch where Buffy's own father has ghosted her, basically.

He's like, I send a flower. Flour's a ticket. We have some notes. What the fuck, man. And like a letter, I mean, come on, right? You can't even call. And the sweetness of Buffy, like, opening in the early stretches of this episode, like, this is something families do together, like asking Giles to do this with her because

that is after Joyce is like, I can take you. And Buffy's like, I'm good, right? Just to be reminded of who they are to each other and then have that compromised. through the council, but also Giles' own, you know, he has agency in this, right? Right. So there's that, what that, and then him centering the import of that relationship. The other aspect of it that I found so poignant and impactful is that so much of, especially season one, but really the journey so far across three seasons is like, obviously Giles

loves Buffy, Giles cares deeply about Buffy, that's very central to the encode of the text in this episode. He has often been the voice of balance, right? Here is how you can, you must, not only can and should, but must think about how to navigate the push and pull of your own desire and like the impulses of your heart and your emotion against what is required. And for him to be in that position here, right? And have to ultimately, and decide. ultimately not have to, but choose to decide I care more about this person than what I'm supposed to do. I thought was so beautiful not only because I care about both of them in their relationship, but because it really put him in the Buffy seat.

She's often a character who behaves that way. Would you say love is the death of duty? That's not something you would say. And would you say conflict in the human heart. It's the only thing worth writing about. Who knows? I might. Beautifully said. Thank you so much for that.

So, yeah, it's Buffy's 18th birthday, another crappy birthday for Buffy Summers. Jeez. As she says in this episode, like, the important thing is I kept up my special birthday tradition of gut-wrenching misery and horror. We talk about the metaphors of teenage life inside of Buffy. So, like, the 18th birthday for Americans is this huge, right? You know, you can vote. You can do a number of things.

So this is, of course, a right of passage moment for Buffy. This line from Giles, it's a test Buffy given to a slayer once she, if she reaches her 18th birthday, is so grim. Yeah. Because many, many of these teenage girls never make it to 18. And though I will say, spoiler alert, I don't think this has ever explicitly said anywhere in the rest of the series. But my take on this right of passage, which is to depower Buffy and then put her in an extremely perilous situation

to see if she can pass that test. My interpretation of this is that the Watchers Council is almost hoping that the Slayers won't survive this right of passage because they prefer their slayers young and teenage and malleable. right? Like if you have a slayer who makes it past her 18th birthday into her 20s, you have less and less of an ability to control her the way that they control these young women who are extremely powerful. This is like basically Vecna's playbook? Right. Exactly. Children are malleable, but just sort of like this idea of like they actually don't want her to pass this test at the end of the day. And again, that's my interpretation. It's not, I don't think that's canon anywhere. But that's how I view it. really quickly, I just want to shout out something. And again, that my pals, Jenny and Kristen did on the buffering watch for season three.

It started when I did the Lovers Walk episode with them. They called an angel combustion watch. And it's just that Angel is like constantly like sitting next to a roaring fire in Sunnydale, California, a roaring fire or candles lit everywhere. Now, like, are humans also flavorable? Yes. but there's something about vampires that make them more flammable than humans. And I just, like, would not be so close to an open flame were I angel personally. And we start this episode where he and Buffy are doing one of their many sweaty.

We're not having sex or kind of having sex. I'm stabbing you with a baguette. Not the most phallic image inside of this episode, actually. Amazingly not. And there's just candles everywhere. And it's just, Angel, take care of yourself. You came back from hell. Put out the fires.

Fire safety is important in California. man. Truly. But I bring you now, Mallory, to what I'm calling the unfortunate crystal dildo. What did you think when you first saw this phallic amethyst that Buffy has to, I will say, handle inside of this episode? Not too proud to admit, this is another thing. I took a picture of and texted to you.

So this is like before we come to understand that, you know, before Buffy's first, like, dizzy spell, or certainly before we understand. stand in full what is happening. And the way that Giles said, because Buffy, like, doesn't want to pay attention. He's like, I'm aware of your distaste of studying vibratory stones. But, I just, I'm sorry, like, vibratory stones is so horny as, like, a thing to say. I was just like, I was, took me a minute to even lock in on what was happening because I was so distracted by that.

And then Buffy is, and many, there are, there's a lot of. lot of phallic imagery with the crystals, but Buffy is certainly handling the most overtly penile. And it's like not just holding it, but like jacking it off, basically. Caressing it, one would say. And then says, I just have some energy to burn. Where's faith? Faith is out of town. With that faith were there to help her burn some energy.

Great stuff. I really love that we spend so much in season two talking about the, lie to me episode and that idea of especially as it pertains to Gile and Buffy. So, like, returning to that lie to me theme, which is something that, like, this isn't the first time, his lies to her in this episode, which are so devastating and violating, obviously. But we already saw Giles do this earlier this season in Faith, Hope, and Trick when he lies to her about needing to know the particulars of where Angel was when she stabbed him and the Akothla and all that sort of stuff like that.

he's like lying to her in order to get her to tell him the truth or to process her experience, right? Something that he reveals to Willow at the end of that episode. But I just think that like there, I'm lying to you for your own good. And then here he hits the wall, the limit of like what that actually means. How far can you take an idea like that into? And what does it betray? Also there's the fairy tale element of this episode that I love, the little Red Riding Hood sort of motif that comes through.

of course we get it in a much more overt way in gingerbread and it will come back. This idea of Buffy in a little red riding hood aspect will come back again and is the fairy tale stuff in season four I think is super interesting so it's interesting to see it

sort of planted and seated here. Fun. But I think the main thing that helpless underlines for me is that other you know in addition to the doppelganger dual nature theme of the season which exists inside of this episode

of course because like there's Buffy with her powers and there's Buffy without her powers like you know she throws like a girl right she cannot defend Cordelia she cannot she's being sexually harassed in the street like all this sort of stuff that's there's that Buffy and then the Buffy we know they're two different people and then there's like

the question of Giles who are you I don't even know who you are Buffy says to him right like so who is Giles and you have a father's love for her not a watchers love. Like, what is the nature of identity here? So that's like the main core theme of the season, I would say, but this other one is this idea of authority and undermining authority, right? So like the idea that some people who are supposed to protect Buffy are those who would place her in danger entirely erodes. What, if any, faith we had in the first place in the Watchers Council,

right? We already had some notes for them. Now I have like volumes, libraries of notes for the watchers' counsel. But this idea that, like, we'll get to the mayor, of course, in the back half of the season as like this authority figure and what that means for Sunnydale. But Ban Candy, the adults are children. There's Ken, the character in Anne who's supposed to, like, protect these runaway teens and is exploiting them. There's Gwendolyn Post in Revelations who comes up to, like, absolutely gut faith.

You're an idiot, right? like to look to me for protection or authority or something like that. The parents of gingerbread who turn against Willow and Amy and Buffy and turn into a violent mob, you know. It's just this perfect through line of the season about teenagers who are like teetering on the edge of adulthood, right? You're 18. Are you an adult? And it goes exactly to the story you told about seeing your teachers at the mall. Like this exposing of authority of the adults in the room as, unreliable, exploitative, like all these other things,

and this real scales from the eyes experience for Buffy inside of this episode. Does she have a relationship with Giles on the other side of this episode? Spoiler alert for people who haven't seen the rest of the show? Yes. Like this is not the end of the Giles and Buffy relationship, but something is undeniably altered inside of it, I think, forever after this. And so I just think that, I just think that idea as Buffy turns 18 is so smart.

And I just love this show. Anything you want to say about that? I think it's a brilliant observation from you. And it's a brilliant decision on the show's part. Because you have something like the band candy part of it, it's like, oh, right, like my parents or my neighbors or my friends' parents. Like they're people too. Like they like music and they get horny.

And like, you know, there's that part of it. But then this other side of it, this like fallibility. right, the flawed nature of the people who you would look to when you were young to have the answer or to know what was right or at a minimum to care enough to try to keep you from harm, right? And I think what's like particularly juicy and delicious about it here is that Buffy in particular, I'd say all of the characters to an extent, like I really liked getting a little glimpse in gingerbread of Willow's dynamic with her mom finally that like, you know, gets into some of this as well. And she's like, I'm not like one of your research papers. Like, I'm not an age group on Willow, right? Yeah. And, you know, maybe there was a time when Willow.

I'm sure there was a time when Willow was younger. She's like, my mom is fucking smart, and that's dope, you know? Like, look at how accomplished my mom is and I'm really proud. And it's not like that stops being true. But what does it mean to have the, to get to the point of your own life where you're like, why don't you acknowledge that I am like, I am a fully realized person, or at least I'm on the journey of becoming one. And I want you to acknowledge that and hopefully be a part of it, right?

So we get it in so many different ways. And I love that like, because our Scoobies and obviously Buffy in particular, often, you know, whether it's with Giles or with Joyce or Snyder, there are all different versions of it and flavors of it inside of the story, there are so many moments when Buffy's like, I don't really like need you to tell me what to do. Like I'm the Slayer. Like I'm good actually, right? Faith obviously is just a dynamo on that front.

And so to not fully go to that place, like to. show us how devastating it would be to feel like the person who was supposed to be not just an advisor and a guide and a source of wisdom, but like, like, say, like a protector and someone who loves you and gives a shit about whether you're okay, to have that called into question, I don't really think, like, you grow out of caring about that or needing it. And so the things you need in the way you need them change, but the fact that you want somebody to, like, love you, never does. And so, like, I just think that's a really, really smart way for the show to examine that for characters who in theory could be positioned

as like, I don't need that at all. It's like part of why the show is so mesmerizing to me is they're so rooted in the pull of their heart and their soul, even as they're doing these extraordinary things. And so it makes sense to me that that manifests with like Buffy and Angel, but it's just as appropriate to me that it's there in a different way, obviously, with Buffy and Joyce and Buffy and Giles, etc. So I just love this. be clear, you know, I really agree with you that this has always been a theme of Buffy, like Buffy defying her mom or defying Snyder or whatever the case may be, there's always been the case. It feels more systemic this season that there are just sort of institutions that are letting us

down or warping their own sense of power, et cetera, et cetera. So like what is the local Sunnydale government up to or what is the Watchers Council up to or what is the PTA up to? You know, I mean, it's just like it's a bit more structural exploration of that same theme. So I just really love that. And like if you think about the very Scoobies, like I love Willow's mom. Like Gingerbread is often sort of discounted as like not a very good episode, I think. But I really, really like it. And I love seeing Willow and her mom's dynamic.

And I wish we had more of Mrs. Rosenberg. And like Zander's parents, like, you know, there's a moment in a men's. were Zander's talking about sleeping outside, and Cordelia, who's pissed him at this point, is like, oh, I thought you did that to escape your shitty family, right? And we see Zander. We see Zander in a sleeping bag outside in the snow. We'll get stuff about Cordelia's parents later in the season. You know what I mean?

Like this idea of like your parents, the parents of these particular children sort of not being. And Joyce, I mean, Joyce fucks up, but like Joyce is actually, I think, one of the most solid parents that exists. And especially inside of this episode, the moments that we, the moment that we loved in school hard and season too where she's like proud of Buffy and how Buffy comports herself. And inside of this episode too, she's so excited at the end of Helpless to tell the other Scoobies like how Buffy figured out how to defeat Crollic with her wits. You know, she uses her brains together and Joyce is so proud of her for that. And I just love that.

Anything else we want to say, I mean the ending with Buffy. letting Giles, like, with a very weirdly dry towel dabbing at the wounds on her face is, like, incredibly important to me. Anything else you want to say about helpless? I'll circle back to some of it in some of the categories, but yeah, just a fantastic episode. I think this is the right breaking point for the pod. This is a crucial moment. But I think this is a really good one because then we'll get into, we'll be really in the other faith part of the story in the part two. Okay, let's go now then to our superlatives.

All right. So as we mentioned, we've removed the bad episode. You'll go to Bat 4 category, but have no fear. Double Meat Palace and Beer Bad fans that shall return in other seasons, I promise. We have a lot of the same categories, but a few new ones. Just more mixing it up here in season three. But don't worry, the Spike category is still here because... As it should be.

He's only here once, but we're going to celebrate him being here. Do not doubt it. Okay. I'm going to go first because I have a clip on Favorite Line. Speaking of Spike, take it away, Carlos. Love isn't brains, children. It's blood. Blood screaming inside you to work its will.

I may be love's bitch, but at least I'm man enough to admit it. Iconic. Season 3, episode 8, Lovers Walk, honestly, like one of the best episodes. I love this episode so much. I if if we were allowed to do longer clips I would have done that full speech because you're not friends you'll never be friends you'll be in love

till it kills you both you'll fight and you'll shag and you'll hate each other until it makes you quiver but you'll never be friends I just that whole thing Mars is so good in this episode and I have not completely sourced this information but apocryphly

perhaps that is the episode that decided that he would be coming back, like, in a more regular capacity for the rest of the show. So this is like, he's like, I got one more shot to, like, show them the spike is worth keeping around. He really delivers inside of Lover's Walk. But love isn't brains, children is blood, blood screaming inside you to work its will and maybe loves bitch, but at least I'm mad enough to admit it is just like the most spike thing ever.

And it's so good. So that's my favorite line that I wanted to call out here. The Spirlet is often an opportunity for us to, like, shout out episodes that we didn't spend more time on. So I wanted to give Lovers Walk some love here. That's a great book. And I just love that whole episode. He's amazing in that episode.

That whole episode is good and quite painful. I just love to the idea of like your nominal enemy providing pretty crucial insight and perspective. Which the mayor will do in the next part that we talk about. Okay, as usual, I couldn't limit myself to one. So I have a short list. Yeah, it's a runner. Mergers up. But I do have a...

I'm torn between two. I think I have a winner, and then I have, like... Maybe I'll start with my winner. Okay, from helpless. So not from an episode we haven't talked about. But then some of my other contenders are. This was another one that I texted you. You know what fucking destroyed me in that episode?

When Buffy says, I can't be just a person. I can't be helpless like that. I can't be just a person. What an incredible line and what a, what a massive idea. Because we're all just people, whether or not you're the Slayer, but to have that removed from your own power, a thing that feels like whether it is like a portal to a different type of experience or whether it's armor that you can at least say,

like protects you from some of this other stuff, it's just like when that's gone, when it's removed, when it's stripped away. and all you have is the reminder that everything that's waiting for you every day is really hard. And of course, that was true for Buffy before. But I just think that's like so devastating and so, there was something so sad about it

and so beautiful and so true. Like just the truth of the fear and the insecurity that drives not only a slayer who's confronting being without her power, but any person I thought was just lovely. So that was my favorite line of the season. That was beautiful. Kind of like a related,

I had like a couple Buffy nominees from Homecoming from episode five as well. And on that same sort of like tonal front, I think when the discussion of like, well, why does this like matter to you so much? You know, I could pick up a yearbook someday and say I was there. I went to high school and had friends. And for one moment, I got to live in the world. And there'd be proof. Proof that I was chosen for something other than this. Besides, I like cute in a tiara.

But like for one moment I got to live in the world. And it's, you know, Buffy's journey with in relationship to the idea of, like, popularity is obviously core to the text across the seasons. But the, there's the really fun, like, you know, dick measuring with Cordelia and that aspect. And, you know, I think another nominee for Best Line is you awaken the prom queen with him, which is really fucking funny. Yes. But the thing that is really driving this for Buffy is, like, I need to be able to look at something that feels normal, right? It feels like the rhythm of a normal life. And I was here, right?

Like her favorite teacher not even knowing who she is or what, you know what I mean? Like it's just, yeah. There's like an imprint of it. Yeah. That's so good. What are some of the other runners up? Can I give you one from Anne? Please.

Everyone's favorite most quotable episode of both of Vampire Slayer? She says, in the vein of like, who are you? Right? Which is the name of an episode this season, right? That I am no one sort of thing that the people who are trapped in hell are supposed to say, and then they get to her, and she goes, I'm Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and you are. First time she ever says Buffy the Vampire Slayer in the show, and so it was just like a really great, I'm Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

Oh, I love that. Yeah. Oh, fun. That's a great one. I think this is mostly driven by sports and Cleveland being a rival sports city, but I got such a kick out of it in the wish when Al Jiles is like on the phone, he's like, yes, I'm aware that there's a great deal of demonic activity in Cleveland. I'm like in Tracts.

Tracts. And I have one more from Anne, actually, weirdly. I love this. Hit me. What is hell but the absence of hope? Not Scott Hope. Scott Hope, first time we've said his name on this podcast because that's how memorable he is. Let's just say it.

Scott Hope is. I'm sorry. He's budget Ford. He is. Yeah, that's true. He's better than never kill a boy in a first date, the guy, the bland guy from season one. Yes. We'll continue to explore Buffy's taste in bland men.

It's ongoing. But what is hell but the absence of hope? I love that. You know, that's just, you know. And when you think about in that, in Ann, there's a shot of Buffy just like alone in her sad apartment, just like sitting on her bed, juxtaposed with the bustling activity of first day back to school at Sunnydale. The camera is just like roving everywhere. It's just like life and everything.

And then it's just like Buffy sad all alone. What is hell but the absence of hope? Is she not already in hell? before she goes to a literal hell dimension. And then how can that visual not be on our minds when we see Faith in a setting like that? And then when fucking Gwen, Gwendolyn Poe shows up, she's like, yeah, all those secret meetings. How does Giles let her have friends? And Faith is just like, do you care?

Would you care to give me a pronunciation of the word Spartan, the way that Faith says it? I don't think I possibly could. Spide. Spide. I can't do it. Oh, man. Really funny. My other two nominees are both from a men's, one of which we've already mentioned.

It's not the demon in me that needs killing Buffy. It's the man. I was like, this is electric. Bars. Wow. And then wearing Jenny's face, you think you can fight me. I'm not a demon, little girl. I'm something that you can't conceive the first evil beyond sin, beyond death.

I am the thing, the darkness fears. Very funny when Buffy's like later in that scene, like, all right, I get it. you're evil, but I am the thing the darkness fears, like, give me a chill. It was great. I'm going to have, I actually have, like, a weird amount of Cordelia in my superlitt is this, this time around. But, um, there's this, there's this weed in quote where he's like, make them cry,

but then by God make them laugh. And Cordelia is, like, so often deployed to do that, right? Like, in helpless, I don't know who you are. And then Cordelia's like, oh, have we forgotten? We lost our memory. Giles. Giles. Right.

Really funny. Because you're like devastated. Then here comes Cordelia. That line, we get it. You're evil or whatever. Like I mentioned the If the Apocalypse comes Beast Me was one of those like always in the commercials. The We Get At Your Evil was also another like, nice. Classic commercial clip.

Any other favorite lines before we move on to. Okay. Best villain of the week. I'm giving it to Jeff Cobra as Crollic. I just think that Crollic is like, I don't know. Very limited time. time, really, really fun. Scary.

It's very scary. I had the pleasure of informing Rob on prestige, and I'm going to tell you now. Jeff Cobur, he's in the pit season two. So get excited for some Krollic in the pit season two. Doctor, patient? TBD. I won't tell you. I mean, that's our scissors involved.

I won't tell you what she did with them. Very long spoons? I don't know. Who's your villain of the week? Okay, so I have a tie between two because they're kind of like thematically linked through the idea of villains who prey upon something that is personal and sacred, but in different ways. So I'm tossing Gwendolyn Post from – wow, I heard the Baltimore there. Gwendolyn Post. Poh, she's just going to go down to the ocean hunt and watch the O's.

Gwendolyn Post. Maybe I'll just say Gwynn from here on. Sure. Faith's new watcher. I was like, I love the, like, they swear there was a memo. Fucking Watchers, counsel. The, obviously this is very central and helpless as we just talked about, but the way that this appearance and what happens to this episode tears down, you know, the idea of like

the sanctity of the watcher calls it into question, you know. I think also just the outrageous behavior toward faith, which you already noted, the like a word of advice, you're an idiot. and the way that Gwen pits, all outside of obviously being there to take and use the glove. Right. Pitting Faith and Buffy against each other. Like that scene I was just talking about that.

Like, oh, yeah. Like, Giles, lets her, like, have all these friends, which of course just makes faith feel left out of all of that and, like, shit, right? And then just the absolutely outrageous behavior toward Giles, bludgeoning him in the head so that he nearly died. clearly, but there's talking to counseling you haven't been too American. Frankly, how dare you?

She's so good. I like what Giles is like, that was bracing. Really, really great. Okay, I fucking hate her. Yeah, so that's one. And then I thought that everything with the first evil and amends was great. And I will say, I don't know what the future of the show holds. I am as certain as I have ever been about anything we've talked about that this is not the last we've seen.

And if the first evil, that just feels like an absolute lock. So technically in the scope of, of the story, not eligible for villain of the week, but in these 12 episodes, the villain of the week. Great to see Jenny again. Amazing to see Jenny. I hope that we keep finding ways to bring Jenny back in some way, but you'll never see me, but I'm everywhere, every being, every thought, every drop of hate.

And this idea that, like, whether it's Jenny or Daniel or the other faces that Angel sees, something, the idea of this first evil, something that is this old and this vet. that roots itself then, it's an unknowable force that roots itself and the most knowable thing for you, right? The most personal regret and bitter torment and guilt and shame that you carry, that was great. Are you saying that you think the writers of the show

would not be able to resist a character that can wear the face of any dead character that's ever existed on the show? That feels like a lock. It's just a question, I guess, of how quickly the first, you know, That's something you would do in, for how long? Maybe a later season?

When you could just face after face, yeah. I feel like, I feel very confident we'll be, we'll be returning there. But it was a very fun, what I assume is an introduction, very fun introduction. And then inside of that episode, the introduction, the, I guess, further affirmation of this idea, the powers that be, right? Who made it snow and Sunnydale, this sort of thing. Okay. And runners up. Ethan Rain, always a delight to see you.

Always thrilled. You're great. Okay. Best fit. What do you have here? I mean, obviously it's Giles' outfit in Bancandy. To me, nothing is close, but so because we already talked about that for so long, I will offer up another nominee here, which is in the Wish.

That's correct. I mean, it's... Actually, there's two options in the Wish that I would say. Yeah, shout out Zander and all the leather. But to me, it's obviously Vampire Willow. Vampire Willow in the corset. Yes. My tie is not actually Zander.

Cordelia's breakup fit, the like snake skin, like, very good. You know, two-piece power suit that she wears when she goes to school. Yeah. Emerging from the car. That's like that. Yeah. Great.

Incredibly iconic. But yeah, vampire well on the corset. It's unbelievable. So good. All right. Favorite new spot on the Sunnydale map. Yeah. He gets a street added to the map.

a studio backlot sort of situation. Wow. A rare Zoom chat from Carlos. That's how you say. This means something. Vampire Willow is one of the best things to ever happen. Correct. Can see why it would be meaningful.

Guess what? We'll talk about it more. What's your pick for a favorite new spot on the Sunnydale map? What do you have? It's a tie, but I'll just pick one in case you have the other one. But the Sun Cinema, the Sunnydale movie theater. It's an iconic location, and I really enjoy the marquee. and like all of its opportunities.

That's a great one. I like, because of both of the putting, the in-office putting range and the very particular collection of items in the mayor's office. That's a fun space. I can't remember if it happens

in this half of the season, but the mayor who diabolically just has like milk sitting out in a pitcher, I think that's in part too, but it's disgusting. That's not something that I'll allow. That's not. something that I'll allow. But yeah, that's

a great one. I have a couple, a couple of nominees. But yeah, this was a lighter lighter, I think, group of like... But that street, the movie theater and the espresso pump, those are like, that's a great one. That's just like... That's a great one. Sunnydale, you know what I mean to me? I liked exploring, like, just

expanding our understanding of Willow's home. Because I've always, you know, we've spent time in Willow's bedroom and I was like, in prior seasons, I was kind of like, let me tell, I don't have kids. Let me tell you something I wouldn't want. My teenage daughter to have a door from the outside right into her bedroom. You know, so I'm like, what's the rest of this place look like?

And obviously, we already talked about the stretch with Willow and her mom, but also, like, very meaningful scene between Willow and Oz in that living room and on that couch. So I liked getting to just see more of Willow's life and, like, her home space. What else is on your list? I mean, that's it. It's the street is called Maplecourt, and it is just, I call it. to me. It's one of those things where like, you know, when you go, when you, when you're in LA and you go to like various studio backlots and you see something, you're like, oh my God, it's the street from whatever. If I ever saw Maple Court, which I'm sure has been torn down,

it doesn't exist anymore. But the studio backlot, that includes the espresso pump and the Sun Cinema's location, I would, I would die, simply die. All right, rapid fire. Yeah. Last time this was a Best Spike Cordelia in Ozism category, we're replacing Spike with love and respect, he gets his own category. He's going to be fine with the mayor. Mayor Richard Wilkins, welcome to the chat. So best mayor, Cordelia, and Ozism. Let's start with the mayor, Mallory Rubin. What do you have? I have a couple contenders for the mayor. I have three. From Homecoming. Now, I, you've spent a lot of time with me. You know how I feel about germs. Oh, yeah. The mayor is a germaphobe is like so Mallory coded. I could not even possibly tell you.

I've got some notes for this guy, but this is not one of them. Right. You know, I know I'm coming in episode five. He's lecturing Alan. He's like, after every meal and under your fingernails, turk it's trapped in mayonnaise. And that was what to give to God tier to me because I, I don't, mayonnaise, I don't, just the way it moves, the way it was.

My dear mother said cleanliness is next to godliness. And I believed her. She never caught a cold. This is just like, I'm like, wait, am I, do I like the mayor? I don't, but do I? So that was great. And then I quite enjoyed, I quite enjoyed speaking of his office. in Ban Candy.

He's talking to Mr. Trick, and he's like, you know, see, that's what separates you from other politicians. Like, I promise, right? And we're getting a sense of his vibe, right? And also some intriguing, tantalizing insights into what's this guy? What's he involved in here? And then he takes us like a skull from a shelf, sniffs it, and then says, where did I put the scotch? killed me. Absolutely fucking killed me.

Oh my God. That was a great one. That was a great one. And then when he's golfing and Lovers Walk and he says, I would sell my soul for a decent short game. Of course, it's a little late for that. And then to Allen, I don't suppose I can offer your soul. Really help me on the green.

Great stuff. Mine is from Lovers Walk. And they're talking about Spike, right? He says. But I guess we're past that now. This year is too important to let a loose. cannon rock the boat. And Alan says, should I have Mr. Trick send a committee to deal with this? And then the mayor says, loose cannon, rock the boat. Is that a mixed metaphor?

Boats did have cannon. So the loose one would cause it to rock. Oh, honestly, I don't know where my mind goes these days. Why don't you take care of that spike problem? A committee, like you said. Incredible stuff. I love the mayor. This is like one of my favorite buffy characters of all time. We'll talk about him so much more in part two of this season. But, you know, he's in four episodes in the stretch, homecoming, band candy, lovers walk, gingerbread. And I think it's just like a really good sort of like sprinkling in of someone who will become like increasingly important. And we talked about in season two, the various dimensions of the mayor. So I think it's just like really beautifully set up the way they do it.

Cordelia, my babe, what is your, what cordelia isms do you want to drop here? I mean, it's always impossible to like pick because she has so many good lines all the time. Oh, God. I like to really like an Anne. See, I have an Anne, an nominee too. Yeah, Anne's here. Anne's here. She's like, you know, she and Xander are both really excited but nervous to see each other after the summer.

Yeah. And, you know, she's kind of like, all right, I'm nervous to see him, but also, well, you know, who's going to be in Sunnydale and the monsters? And then she says, then again, he's always been attracted to monsters. She's fucking killed me. That was so great. I just thought that was amazing. I liked an episode in episode five in Homecoming when she says he kind of gross on you like a CHFET. Oh God.

Some great ones in Band Candy. I love, I mean, I can't believe we've made it two hours and I haven't brought up the SATs. Plenty coming on that front for both of us, I'm sure. But I liked when Cordelia is talking about the SATs and says, I'm looking forward to it. I do all on standardized tests. What? I can't have layers. That might be my pick, actually.

That's a great one. It's a really good. That was my runner up. My pick, though, is in Homecoming. An incredible Cordelia episode, obviously. Amazing. When Cordelia runs up to Buffy, having been asked to get a weapon, she runs up with a spatula.

And Buffy says, that's it. And Cordelia says, just this and a telephone. And Buffy goes, a telephone. And you didn't think that would be helpful? And Cordelia goes, no, this is better for her. And she just sort of like wax the air with his spatula. Incredible. And realizes the telephone might be helpful for calling for help.

goes, oh, but the gesture with the spatula is like a really, really good. The charisma carpenter moment. Cordelia's amazing in these episodes, and there's some really heart-wrenching stuff, obviously. On the comedy front, I also would throw out as a runner-up in Revelations, on the heels of Willow trying to remind everyone to use eye statements. Cordelia's like, I feel worried about me. That just killed me. That was like so, such a perfect Cordelia moment.

I liked in The Wish when she meets Anya who compliments her bag is that Prada. She's like, good call. Most people around here can't tell Prada for Payless. That took me back to like our intro to Cordelia on Season 1. The softer side of stairs. Yeah, good stuff. Really good stuff. All right.

And for Ozisms, you have a clip. I have a clip. Well, gathering is Bree. Mellow song stylings. Shindig, dip. Less mellow song stylings, perhaps a large amount of malt beverage. And Hoot Nanny. or chock full of hoot

Just a little bit of nanny Yeah A man The best That's from Dead Man's Party Chalk full of hoot And a little bit of nanny Is something that I say

To this day That comes on the heels of Cordelia's iconic I'd the dip Which is just like A perfect Cordelia line I have a few others

But what do you have here for us? Let's see In Anne Ann is back And is here. Because the Scoopies are trying to do it on their own, right? Yeah. And, you know, Asa said, like, he thinks they're gaining, they're finding their rhythm.

And Sanders, like, we're losing half the Vamps. And I says, yeah, but rhythmically. How did you feel about Sunnydale having a gymnastics team? The revelation that Sunnydale has a gymnastics team. You know, I, I, I, anytime I'm introduced to a new team at Sunnydale, I'm unsurprisingly. I'm unsurprised because it's just to me one more group that could lose some of its members in an episode like GoFish or whatever the case may be. What does Larry say at the beginning of the season? So I have it.

Hold on. I do. I wrote this down. Okay. In Ann! Larry's excited about the football team's prospects. And he says, if we can focus, keep disciplined and not have quite a... mysterious deaths. Sunnydale is going to roll. It's their year, man. It's their year. That was so funny.

And I obviously had the hoot-nanny one as one of my nominees as well. And, you know, let's note that, by the way, in that stretch that Oz, this poor cat, let me just say this, let me just say this. You've been a near flawless guide for my Buffy journey. Sorry. You did not warn me that there would be a cat death or pat. I didn't warn you about that or the cat. You did it. You didn't. Band Candy, I already mentioned that it's a sober mirror to look into. That was great. I also liked Buffy, you know, in the throes of SAT, anxiety dreams. Oz is like, this whole trick to antidoms, but this isn't the place.

Really great. I enjoyed a lover's walk when Xander says, because Oz has said, like, I see why you'd be upset. That was my sarcastic voice. And then Zander says, you know what? sounds a lot like your regular voice. And I says, I've been told that. Best. Oz is great.

I think my most, like, Chalkalo Hut and a little bit of Nanny has my heart. I think my most, like, imitated Oz line is when in Homecoming, when he says, as Willow goes, so goes my nation, which is a spin on a, as Maine goes, so goes the nation. But, like, as Willow Go So is a line that I steal and manipulate for whatever I need. but as blank goes, so goes my nation is something that I say a lot. I love it. Faith, Hope and Trick. The way that Oz is just used to like, I mean, Oz is just here, even though he's a senior last year and they just sort of like lay it down there and breeze past it and it's fine.

Like, Seth Green can deliver anything. So like, Oz is a werewolf. It's a long story. I got bit. Not that long, I guess. It's really good. Or in Dead Man's party when he goes, hey, so you're not wanted for murder anymore. And she goes, good.

That wasn't drag. can just, like, move on from there. He's just, like, really well used in that way. So I love us. It's a really great character in a really great performance. I think that the, I liked that we, I mean, you know, everything that happens with Sandra and Willow, which maybe we'll have some other categories coming up here that allow us to talk about that a little bit more.

But, you know, watching how Cordelia and Oz both respond to that and navigate it and then where we find Willow and Oz, like, who have decided after Oz insists on the space that he needs to, like, try again. And then when Willow, I just loved how Oz behaved in the scene in amends where Willow was like, I'm ready to have sex. And Osberg. Very White's here. Yeah. I'm not.

Yeah. And I just thought the like, you know, how special are we talking? And then the way he said, like, that's pretty special when he realized what was going on. There was just such a great scene. Like really, I already loved him, but it made me love him even more. I think also that scene where Willow is trying to make amends with him or whatever. and he says, I told you what I need. Yes.

You know, and the fact that you ignore that makes me feel like you just want to feel better, not that you actually care what I need. And that's actually like a line that I have like literally used in conversations, like versions of that in conversations to sort of explain to people when they are like not listening to what I need inside of a conflict. Yes. Yeah. Speaking of conflict, best fight scene.

I have a clip. I have a clip for this. this one. Oh, hell yeah. You should have told me he was alive. You didn't. You have no respect for me or the job I perform. So I did not go with a physical fight. I would be like devastation that I have ever. It's like a knife to my heart. This is from, of course, episode seven, revelations, which I thought was just great. If I had picked a physical fight, I would have picked a Krollic and I thought that the

swapping of his pill water for the Holy Water was incredible. I'm with joy. So I was like also very proud. But yeah, this emotional fight, the Scooby's confronting collectively Buffy about keeping angels returned from them. This idea just more broadly in the story for Buffy for everybody, divided loyalties, like how you navigate these conflicting pulls on your heart. I love the way that the show, that this episode, that the scene, but the show in general, explores that and like acknowledges how fundamental that is to making your way through life,

you know? You know, we talked about this earlier, but just I love the way that everybody's, everybody is either upset, somewhere on the spectrum of like angry, upset, or concerned, right? In that scene, Buffy calling out Sandra on his jealousy, etc., Willow trying to, like, mediate.

And then everybody else leaves. We're already in an intense spot and is just Giles and Buffy. And he says, be quiet. I won't remind you that the fate of the world often lies with the Slayer. What would be the point? Nor shall I remind you that you've jeopardized the lives of all that you hold dear by harboring a known murderer. But sadly, I must remind you that Angel tortured me for hours, for pleasure.

And then the part we just heard, you should have told me he was alive, you didn't. You have no respect for me or the job I perform. So, like, in theory, this is about his role as watcher, but much more so it is about his personal suffering. the torture, but of course also Jenny. Jenny, yeah. This idea that, like, Buffy is so often guided by her hurt, but what about Giles's pain? Giles is hurt, right?

What about everybody else's pain? What about everybody's version of that wound that they carry that leads to them doing the things that they do or missing the things that they miss? I thought this was such a beautiful, this felt so important. Like, I don't know, it's the kind of thing where, like, this is another version of what you were saying earlier

where, like, if Buffy had kept this from everybody and they were like, makes sense. Like, Willow is able to navigate all aspects of this where she's kind of like, I understand why you did it. I understand what you need. I will try to be a friend for you. I also think you should be thinking about what this means for everybody else, right?

And that's, I think, the most generous response. But I think everybody responds to this with, like, the fullest version of themselves. The way that all of the character's behavior feels so right to me. And I love that we got to see it, including Buffy. Like I just, I love that we got to see this.

Really, really good. That was tough to watch. Yeah. I also picked a verbal argument. Even though in Revelations, Buffy fights faith for the first time and it's great and we'll talk about that more, but like, you know, slayer, slayer of these slayer is always very fun. But Buffy and Angel and Amends.

As you've already mentioned, look, I'm weak. I've never been anything else. It's the demon in me that needs killing Buffy. Not the demon of me that needs killing Buffy. It's the man. But the line is, am I a thing worth saving? Am I a righteous man? The world wants me gone.

And then Buffy's like, but what about me? But am I a thing worth saving? Am I a righteous man? I think is some of the best writing and some of the best acting that David Boreannis has ever done. And isn't it remarkable? Like, remember when we were talking about season one and we're like, hey, this guy is not that great as Angel. And then he just like, he just really levels up. And like, Boreannis obviously has had a long career after Buffy.

a number of shows, but like, you know, and obviously has his own show angel that like he has a lot of great. But like Amends is like the peak David Borgiana is for me. And that line, am I, I think we're saving. Am I a righteous man is just like, ugh. Any other fights you want to mention? I have your pick in another category. I love that moment. That's so good.

I will say coming back to Anne, everyone's favorite episode. the shot that winds up in the credits of Buffy with the hammer and the sickle is like an incredibly sick fight moment. And then also in everyone's favorite episode, Beauty of the Beast, the idea that you get this like mashup of like universal, classic universal monsters, you get Mr. Hyde versus the Wolfman, the Wolfman versus the Slayer, the Slayer versus Mr. Hyde and Mr. Hyde versus a vampire is like a really fun sort of like escalation of stuff. When Oz, when he's like, suns down, like rules change and turns into, you know, the wolf is a great moment. Fantastic stuff. I do not think, let me just say this. Yeah. I do not think that they should keep Oz in the school library.

That's just a note. Does not seem. And don't let Xander or Faith maybe. You know, like. Obviously never. And like, let's do more reinforcing of the window. Why are we putting him anywhere with the window at all? But like, it's at the school library.

I really agree. crazy. Well, good news is that might change. Okay, hornyest non-Ban candy moment. We've already explored band candy in depth, so I just qualified it for this category. What do you have here? I already mentioned that I had

this as a clip. We've already talked about it. But let's just listen to it for the sheer pleasure of it. God, I could eat a horse. Isn't it crazy how Slam just always makes you hungry and horny? This is just absolutely incredible. I do feel about to note that Also in that episode, episode three, Faith says, of Giles, if I don't know, they came that young and cute, I'd transfer. Fuck yeah.

And everyone's like, I never thought of that way. And Willow's like, I did basically. Like, I mean, I noticed. Oh, my God. I have some other, some runners up, but hit me with, hit me with yours. And then we can, we can hit the other contenders. I think Vampire Zander and Vampire Willow killing Cordelia in the wish and him, like, grabbing the back of Willow's head. It's like they're making out as they devour her is some pretty spicy content.

That's good. That's good. For all of us here. And all the puppy stuff between vampire willow and angel in The Wish is also scary, but also incredibly horny as well. Yeah, very much so. Look, I have some notes on how Sander and Willow Prime, our actual Zander and Willow behave. It's fucked up.

They do this to Cordelia and Oz. It's not great. I was pretty riveted by this plot line. I think that the, it's really good. It's really well done. I think it was like, you know, we talked about this a lot in both the season one pod, but certainly the season two pods after like the, you know, ice cream in the nose, et cetera.

But just like, would they hook up when? I don't know. I am always very interested in like if there's that one person for you. And you always sort of like wondered if they liked you too. And then maybe they realize they do, but it's not the right time. I think a lot of people can relate to that experience. And again, I don't think they behave well. But I do think that in Homecoming in Episode 5, when they're trying on their homecoming outfits for each other, that's a pretty horny scene.

And a pretty, like, you almost find yourself in the position of the characters where you're like, are they going to kiss? And you're like, wait, no, I shouldn't like, yeah, I shouldn't want this. But the like, you know, the Willow coming out with the two, the first two dresses, and there's kind of the cursory, like, nice. Yeah. You know, and then she comes out and the showstop. It's, like, gorgeous. And she's, like, looking at him and his tucks.

And Oz is very lucky. So is Cordelia. And then the dancing. And then close fluke. It's like, that's a pretty, that's a pretty horny scene for sure. What I love about Zander and Will, let me just say quickly is, like, what I love about that is that it was something that I was like, when I watched it the first time. Mm-hmm. because I love Willow and Willow wanted Zander.

I wanted Willow and Zander to be together, right? But then Oz comes along and Oz is so great. And we love and respect to Cordelia, Cordelia and Zander don't really like fit. And that's why sort of things pan out differently for these two couples. But like, Oz and Willow is so good. And so then when it happens, you're like, oh, I did want this, but not like this. Not like this. So like to give you what, to give me what I wanted and for me then to not want it is like,

I think a really interesting delivery of a story. Yeah, for us to feel the same kind of, like, we're kind of complicit in it and to feel the same, like, guilt and shame that, you know, the characters especially Willow feel. Zander being like, can I keep you kiss your earlobe, just fucking out on campus, like out on Maine? What the fuck is wrong with them? But, well, well explored for sure. I like, I really thought on the horny front, but also on the smart story structure front in amends. coming up with a story mechanic that allows Angel and Buffy to have sex again. They're sharing a dream.

And so they get to be intimate with each other again when obviously everything that happened in season two. And it's such an active discussion point for them throughout the season of like what can they have and what can they never have and what do they need or what do they want. And so to put them in a space where the risk has been removed and they can share that level of physicality with each other. Again, pretty horny and also just, again, really smart. I do think the will-they, won't they of Angel and Buffy in the season is done so well. We'll talk about it, of course, more in the back half. But I think in revelations, the fact that when they finally sort of succumb, but we see it from Zander's point of view. Like, we don't see the moment where they finally, like, broke and start making out.

We see it because Xander's seeing it is, like, really interesting. Last night least, I will say in helpless. I already mentioned this, but helpless. Buffy's straddling Angel while panting and saying satisfied is pretty phenomenal. Really good. Best use of Jonathan, the category remains. He's in three episodes in the Stresh, Dead Man's Party, Homecoming, and the Wish, eating and drinking memorably in all of these episodes.

I'm just going to say, it's hard to pick, honestly, but the absolute diabolical way he eats a cupcake and homecoming has to be my winner here. Yeah, and I also liked the Cordelia gave me six bucks that buys a whole lot of cupcakes because Buffy's trying to bribe him or his vote. That was really good. I will go with in Dead Man's Party when this horrible fight is unfolding in a very, very public way. And Buffy asks if anybody else wants to pile on and then turns to you, poor Jonathan. How about you buy the dip? And he's just like, no thanks.

I'm good. But he's also just kind of like smeared at dip. Jonathan does not know how to eat anything, my love. All right. We'll come back to you, Jonathan, in the future. All right. Most 1998 thing, unless it's from Gingerbread or helpless, in which case, 1999. What do you have here?

I liked in Beauty and the Beast episode four when Willow says, like, she couldn't sleep. She says, I've been at Mr. Donuts since the TV did that snowy thing. That took me back to being a kid in the 90s. That is just nothing that is a part of people's lives anymore. I will say, with the exception of like a memorable Michelle Branch moment in a later season of Buffy Empire Slayer, they don't usually do a lot of like needle drops that are like very like recognizably 90s. Yeah. But the use of both Fastball and Lisa Loeb in Homecoming, Fastball is a fire escape by Fastball. Incredibly 1998 thing.

And really, really puts us in a certain time in place. So yeah. I love that. There was also in the school counselor in Platt's office, there's a troll, a very visible troll. Also, he's smoking inside at a school. Crazy. Zander just crushing the Sunny D. Oh, yeah. So I was like, man, let me tell you something. Still to this day, I see that, and I want one. I always want Sunny D. Same. Same. Until I feel that when I see a Capri Sun, but then nothing doesn't quite like seeing a Sunny D. I'm like, I just need that fucking now. Those commercials really worked on me. And I didn't have any Sunny D until college. And I was like, actually, this isn't very good.

But it still works on me. I still want to have it. So, all right, Jal's most dad moment. I mean, how can it not be everything from helpless? I've. You have something else? And I don't know why I put it here because probably it belongs in like funniest moment or whatever. But do you like my mask?

Isn't it pretty? It raises the dead. Bloody Americans is like, I don't know, very dad to me. I have that as my funniest moment. I love it. That's a great one. That's so good. His expression, his face is the driving.

I always love to see Giles in this car. Great pick. Yeah, I just think everything we've already talked about and helpless. I just fucking love. And like when he says to Quentin, like, I don't give a rat's ass about the council's orders. There will be no test or Giles. We have no business. And then the way Giles grabs his lapels and shakes me.

He's like, this is not business. Oh, dad. On that note, Jiles' most daddy moment, as we've mentioned, I've been a little alarmed to how often it's violence, but I'm going to give it to physically intimidating Snyder at Dead Man's party. Of course. That's my answer. I believe I can make life very difficult for you, professionally speaking.

When he grabs him by the collar, it says, would you like me to convince you, though? I'm like, yes, please. I need a private moment. This is like, wow. Oh, my God. Yeah, that's a great one. In that same episode, Dead Man's Party,

I also think it's very daddy when he kicks a dead man off the all sorts of, He spends a lot of time on hodes of cars in these episodes. It's true. Rolling around, kicking. That's a great one. The all Giles and the Wish, the sweater that he's wearing, we'll talk. We'll keep sweater trackers. It's going to be a part of our discussion moving forward.

I like an amends when he's cooking when Angel comes over and then I just thought it was really fucking hot when he showed up when he'd rounded the bend with the crossbow. Sorry. I did. All right. I think we have the same answer for when Willow cries, we cry. Do you want to take us through it? This is Dead Man's Party. This is the moment we talked about earlier when Willow finds Buffy packing again, right?

Buffy has just returned. And it's not, and this is, I, you know, I said earlier that this episode isn't one of my favorites. But, like, I think this was brilliant. The way that this episode examined, like, life moved on without Buffy. And that doesn't mean that people didn't miss her, but it does mean that when she's, like, can you be hang out tonight? Like, people have plans, you know? Yeah. And, like, she's in the.

this really interesting place where, like, everybody's a little bit mad at her and a little bit hurt, but also very relieved and glad that she's back. And she's, like, navigating her version of that dissonance as well. And when Willow finds her and is like, you're leaving again what just stopped by for your limp brush and now you're ready to go? I was like, fuck yeah. Like, stand on your business, Willow? Willow. Like, yeah. Willow and Joyce, I would say. Yeah. Like, I think that Zander went overboard in the way that he was talking to Buffy, unsurprisingly. As per usual, Xander. Let her finish.

I was like, I don't love this. But I thought I was glad that Willow and Joyce both, like, stood up for the fact that they love Buffy. They're happy she's back. But, like, feeling like the relationships that they have with her could just be, like, at any minute, dropped and abandoned because of just what Buffy needs? It's like, well, what about what I need? Or what about how this makes me feel was, like, important. It was an important thing to hold Buffy to account for.

And the passage we already, or the exchange we already talked about, like, this isn't easy Buffy. I know you're going through stuff, but so am I. And Buffy says, I know you're worried about me, bud. And Will's like, no, I mean, yes, but like, no, I don't just mean that. I mean my life. I'm having all sorts of, I'm dating. I'm having serious dating with a werewolf and I'm studying witchcraft and killing vampires. And I didn't have anyone to talk to about all this scary life stuff.

Like, we talk a lot and we think a lot about what's it like to be the friend of the slayer, right? But what's it like to count the slayer as your friend is just as interesting. Yeah. And I think also, like, as so as the circle expands of who knows that Buffy is a slayer, right? Like Cordelia knows, Oz knows. Now Joyce knows, you know, like blah, blah. And then we also have this classic sort of superhero friend group thing of like, who's becoming special. Oz is a werewolf.

Willow's a witch. Yeah. You know, Zander's still Zander. Sanders, the Zepho, which we'll talk about. You know what I mean? But it's just sort of like, this is a classic, like, you see it on the Flash or you see it, you know, like various things where it's just sort of like everyone becomes a superhero at the end of the day. But like Willow's exploration of her of her witchcraft this season, I think is like really well done. We'll talk about that more.

Best guest star, sorry, I can only be myself. I'm giving it to James Marsters. Spike. That's my answer. If he's eligible, there's no other pick. Okay. Yes. That's what I'm thinking.

Easy. I mean, this was amazing. I wasn't sure if I got it. Did I forget my own rules? Sorry. If I forgot my own rules, that's okay. You know what? We fucking make the rules.

Here we go. God damn. This is what you should do. Right now, you should just pretend like you're driving a car. I did him. Drive off. The Sunnydale sign will never be safe again.

All right. Best high school is hell metaphor. This is trickier this season because like there are so much more overt versions of this in seasons one and two. I'm giving it to PTA gone wild and Gingerbreads.

Yeah. That's my favorite too. Yeah. That's my pick too. Yeah. Yeah. Moo. Yeah.

Yeah. This is, I thought that was, I liked that episode too. I thought that was the fairy tale part of it, but also this aspect of like the potential dark manifestation of this like parental communal. Mass hysteria. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Exactly. That I think, I'll toss out as nominees as well in the wish. when Cordelia comes back, and she's gone through this not only emotional trauma, but this physical trauma, you know,

this speared by the bar. Yeah, yeah. And like, comes back. And John Lee is like, if anyone saw me hanging out with Dander Harris' cast off, you know,

and Harmony's like Jonathan prank, you know, that was all, it was all so high school, so kids being bullies, kids being mean, but the fact that it leads Cordelia immediately to this like

supernatural circumstance of wishing Buffy out of their existence, pinpointing Buffy's arrival is the moment where this all went wrong for Cordelia. I thought was another good example of it. Obviously, everything in Band Candy fits, but we've talked about that, you know, so much already. Homecoming, you know, a school dance leading to like Slayer Fest at the whiteboard in Buffy's whiteboard. Two of Cordelia's weakness is like cons weakness.

This is Sandra and Bree. All right, cringiest low budget moment. This was so easy for me this. Okay, what do you have? I love band candy. Yeah, the snake thing at the end of band candy. Dude, this was nuts. Larkonis emerging as this like almost looks like made in mic, with respect.

Everyone was sure worked really hard. Microsoft paint, like early era CGI. Just like it made me, we've, you know, lovingly like made fun of some of the early puppets and stuff. But it made me really miss like a puppet. Yeah. We've said it before. And again, I missed the puppets. Puppets, always on my mind.

Yeah. I'm going to also add Pete's transformation in Beauty and the Beast. Yep. Yeah. And then the kids morphing into the giant demon and gingerbread, to which Cordelia says, okay, I think I like the two little ones more than the one big one. Oh, my God. All right.

The most important category. The most, okay, Joanna, I get in Spike Moment. I have a clip. I bet. No, this is different. Our love was eternal, literally. You got any of those little marshmallows? So good.

I loved that. Spike and Joyce are very important to me. The burgeoning, you know, Spike and Joyce relationship, we got some bonding in season two, and here we are over hot chocolate. Incredible. Chaos demon, all drooling antlers, chaos demon sadness for Spike.

What do you have here? Second Chaos Demon tale of that episode. It was great. I love to say, boy, this is a rich text. I was thrilled for Spike to be back. After kidnapping Willow and knocking out Xander, he's talking about her silons. Like, what happened? She doesn't even care enough to cut off my head or send me on fire.

And then in that same seam, this one killed me. I gave her everything. Beautiful jewels, beautiful dresses with beautiful girls in them. But nothing made her happy. That was so good. I had the marshmallow thing. And then in that same, when Angel shows up, up and Spike is mine.

Joyce, like, miming biting her neck. That's an iconic Buffy Giff is a spike pretending to. Unbelievable. When he's reminiscing is their like ingredient shopping, and he's like, I used to bring her rats with the morning paper. But my pick, my winner would have been what you had already, the you're not friends. You'll never be friends. I mean, that was just. Blood is and brains, children.

Oh, God. That was really great. Spike. On self-immolation wash, Angel's broodiest eyes. been to hell moment. Oh boy. Some good contenders in amends. I think that Angel going to Giles to ask for help and saying I should be in a demon dimension suffering and eternity of torture and Giles saying they don't feel particularly inclined to argue with that was really, really good. I also loved, I don't need strength. I just need the sunrise as a pick for this. My God.

That was great. Very good. Amends. You'll forever be famous. In lover's walk, Angel is spotted, reading a book by the fire. It is Naja by John Paul Sash. And I think reading Sart by the fire

is a top-tier brooding moment for our guy, Angel. Perfect pick. Perfect pick. Funniest moment. I have a clip for this. It was just too much to do. with. It was like nothing made sense anymore. The things that I thought I understood were gone. Just felt so alone. Is that the math or the verbal?

That was my pick. That was my pick too. This is an absolute all-timer. Yeah. That's the end of Van Gennie. Mostly the math. She says most of the math. Really, really good. That absolutely killed me. I was laughing so hard. I'm accepting that we find out in Lovers Walk that Buffy got a 1430 on her S-A-Ds. Buffy's very smart, but Buffy does not test well or do very well in school. That's canon. So this was- Well, and then Joyce is like, you can go, anyway, we'll talk about.

You can go anywhere. Let's talk about, let's talk about Buffy in college. Next time, too. Yeah. We'll love to say. Another really funny one. I said, I had the Americans moment as a candidate here, but I liked actually in Ginger, Brad,

on the two into one. when Buffy snaps her steak that she's being burned at? Did I get it? Did I get it? Also on my list. Did I get it is so good. That was amazing. Cordelia and Buffy at the end of homecoming,

walking out of the crowding ceremony, refusing to learn any kind of lesson from this moment. Cordelia's death fake out in lovers walk when you like cut to the graveyard and it's just like, so Cordelia's going to be okay? No, she's going to be fine. She's going to be fine. That was really good. And then last one at least, the bad keeps coming back and getting stronger.

Like that kid in the story, the boy that stuck his finger in the duck, dike. That's another word for a damn. Oh, okay. That story makes a lot more sense now. 1430 on our SATs. All right. Last of least, emotional moment.

I have a clip. Play it. What about you, Zander? What's up with you? Oh, you know. Same old, same old. Hard way. Oh, okay.

I like a little old, lots of that. Well, that's good, isn't it? New is good. Oh, absolutely. Except the obvious. Yeah. Because you're for an egg. If you're only listening to this podcast and not watching it, what that is, you hear Zander and Buffy talking in the background.

But it's Giles in the kitchen in Dead Man's party in a silent moment of, thank God, Buffy is back. He just takes a beat and he just, like, has this moment of relief and smiling to himself. He's been flying all over. The world trying to find her and she shows up, but he gives her a very, like, calm, welcome home. But then he, like, has this moment in the kitchen of just... Oh, what a great pick. Relief. So, that's my pick.

I love that. I have one more. What's your... This is where I have the Buffy Angel on the hillside waiting for sunrise moment from a mens at my thing worth saving. Am I righteous man? The world wants to be gone. What about me?

I love you so much. And I tried to make you go away. I killed you. and it didn't help. And I hate it. I hate it so hard that you could hurt me so much. I know everything that you did because you did it to me. I wish that I wished you dead.

I don't. I can't. I thought the righteous manline was amazing. What about me? Caught right to my heart. I thought I know everything that you did because you did it to me was like a good way to capture an important idea. Yeah. That was a very moving scene.

And then, of course, everything from helpless that we've already talked about was just like devastating. I know this is going to sound very lightweight compared to everything we just talked about, but this gets me every time in Lovers Walk when Cordelia has fallen down and she's got rebar sticking out of her torso and then she like whispers, I fell. It like devastates me. And the idea of Cordelia getting hurt by something ordinary like Rebar rather than something extraordinary or supernatural, again is like an idea that the show.

will return to, but I just like, that vision of her, you know, like what Cordelia does, she sort of reverts back to type in a way that is not like my favorite sometimes in season three feels like she backslides on the character development front, but like that moment of just like she's, you know, and Xander's like desperately upset, you know, but like I fell. And it just like, you know, has all these meanings and, you know, I fell in love with you. You betrayed me, you know, it's just like, Cordelia, you're. You're a wonderful character, and I'm so glad you're here. She really is.

It really shredded me when she turns at the hospital, like her faces away at first, and we see the devastation and the despair before Xander does. It was, oh, yeah, that was all really, really, really good. Man, great season. Guess what? That's the first half of Buffy Vampire Season 3. I can't wait to talk about the second half. We're talking about the second half, which has just some incredible, incredible stuff in it.

The mayor, my fave, we're going to get a. to you. Thank you so much to Mallory Rubin for watching Both the Vampire Slayer with me. You're the best. You're the best. Happy New Year, pal. Thank you so much to Arjuna Ram Powell for all of his work, organizing, Herding Cats, as always. Thank you to Carl Sieroboga, who loves Buffy Vampire Slayer Season 3, loves Vampire Willow. We'll talk about that more in part two. And thank you to Joe Mead Dinner on for his work on the social. And we will see you for the second half of our Buffy The Vampire Slayer Season 3. Watch next week. Bye. Yamava Resort and Casino at San Manuel is California's number one entertainment destination

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