House of R - ‘Buffy the Vampire Slayer’ Season 4 Rewatch (Part 2)

Episode Date: April 9, 2026

Mal and Jo are back to continue their ‘Buffy the Vampire Slayer’ rewatch!  This time they’re breaking down the second half of Season 4. They talk about the best moments from all your favorite characters, the best fight scenes, the best fits, and more!(00:00) Intro(07:28) Opening Snapshot(52:02) SuperlativesHosts: Mallory Rubin and Joanna RobinsonProducer: Carlos ChiribogaStudio Production: Jonathan FriasSocial: Jomi AdeniranAdditional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopowell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, welcome back to House of R. I'm Joanna Robinson. That is Mallory Rubin. It is season four part two of Buffy. And guess what? Giles has an acoustic guitar. I repeat, Giles has an acoustic guitar. Malibin, how are you doing? To quote Buffy, you get fang? I'll get horny. Oh my God. Are you mentally prepared to talk about all of the horny Giles moments in the back half of season four of Baha Vampire Slayer? Yes, I am. Great. Actually. Guess what? We'll enumerate them all right after this. The playoffs are here, and you can predict the action all the way to the finals with Fandul predicts. Predict the spread, total points, and even the game winner. Sign up and get a $25 bonus. Offered by Fandul prediction markets LLC,

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is waiting. Watch only on Prime. All right, so this is part two of season four of Buffy. The Buffy Rwatch continues a pace. I got the predictable she can only be herself text from Mallory Rubin last night where she was like

sad! It's going to be over in a couple seasons. I mean, you still have like what, 60 episodes of Buffy still to watch, so I think you'll be okay, but yeah, we're past the midway at this point. We are. We're past the midway point.

I'm pre-greaving morning. Then you got a text within 10 seconds of that one. That was like, maybe I'll just watch Angel season one next week. She's like, maybe I'll just watch all of Angel because she's an absolute maniac. Oh, boy. We did get mixed responses from our listeners about whether or not you should. It didn't seem like there was a consensus. So as someone who's constantly anxious about your work-life balance,

I don't think you should rewatch all of Buffy. But as we were talking last night, it is, you know, as we'll get into some of the faith episodes in the back half of season four of Buffy, the crossover stuff does start to feel a little bit more onerous than it did at the beginning of the season. So I understand why you were like, what am I missing? What happened? Yeah.

When Buffy went to Los Angeles, et cetera. So I get it. Yes. Yes. I felt the, and previously on Angel, really activated my OCD in a major way. And of course, I had previously watched this entire season in full, but sitting down to do the prep and revisiting the episodes, I was like, man. And also, we had just talked about it in the part one pod. Should I be dipping into Angel?

I still feel like just, and I consulted Carlos, you know, on whether he had just gone directly to the relevant Angel episodes or watched it all. So I'm trying to get feedback from all parties. Obviously, you were my guide in all things Buffy and frankly all things life. And so I defer to your wisdom. I felt that like, oh, my goodness. goodness, what am I missing? Will I be able to carry on and appreciate this in full if I'm not also watching 22 episodes of Angel in parallel with every 22 episode Buffy season?

But we'll see. We'll see what goes. I do think you could get through this season if you just want to watch the harsh light of day crossover, the Peng's crossover, and then there's like a basically what you could intuit. There's a two-parter faith like arc on Angel that happens after the two-part of faith arc on season. So like if you watch those four episodes, I think that's all you need, but I feel like

that you're physically in capable of that. So, wow. All right. So we're not going to talk about Angel necessarily, but we're here to talk about the second half of Buffy. I've skipped the part where I tell you what else we're talking about in this feed. I'll just do it right now. By the time this episode drops,

we will have a recorded our, we haven't really figured out what it is, an ode to Mall of some kind. That's right. Mall, the Sith Lord, extraordinaire who hates a shirt and loves to sneer and monologue is a subject of a new animated Star Wars show and we will be just talking about him as a character why we love him. This is our job and we love to do it. So that is something happening.

Also, as we've teased a couple times, if we can not forget to remember to do it, we will be doing a Memento podcast sometime soon. It keeps moving, but we'll find it. We'll find it eventually. I've tattooed it somewhere on my body, so don't worry about it. Anything else you want to tease that's upcoming or, you know, or if not, how can folks keep track of everything we got going on? I mean, the thing I'm most excited to tease that's upcoming is your move to Los Angeles,

which is mere days away. And I'm traveling up to the bay. You're coming down to L.A. We're all over the place we're recording this before we recorded the mall pod that will have aired before this. It's a wild and wacky few days here in terms of time. continuity, but I'm thrilled to be to be with you and gazing into your eyes every day before long. I didn't remember how to get my home recording set up going before this very podcast.

That was a little mini adventure for all of us. And, you know, what else will we be potting about? Lots of Parts of Part. So here's what I would recommend. I'd recommend that everybody follow the pod. Follow House of R on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Listen to this. You can watch full video episodes of House of R on Spotify.

Unbelievable. You can also follow the Ringervist YouTube channel. And watch our full video episodes there. You can see the full video episodes of the Midnight Boys, Pugh, Pugh. While you're at it, follow us on social. We have new House of Our Instagram and TikTok handles at House of Our Pod. That's a delight. We're having fun over there.

Come join us. And while you're at, send us your emails. The inbox is always open, Hobbit and Dragons at gmail.com. Send us your thoughts on our ongoing Christopher Nolan. Rewatch on how much angel I should watch and when. on Buffy Season 5 because those pods aren't going to be far away. We're going to dive into that soon. So that's exciting.

I know. Mull. Anything, everything. That's all I got. Back to you in the studio. Not in the studio. If you're watching this on video, I think I should say, yeah, this is the, I mean, it's already slightly dismantled, but this is the last time you'll see this setup behind me.

This is it. This is farewell to chronologically. That's right. I'll see it tomorrow when we record a bond that airs before this one. But chronologically, this is. the last time I'll be in this office. So thank you, Gray Walls. You did your best. And I'll be in studio for the most part, unless both of us get the plague again or something like that. We get sick a lot. We'll definitely be a recording from our respective homes occasionally.

My question is, will I still, in your new setup, be able to occasionally see bug come in behind you and roll around on the floor? Good. That's all I need. You better believe it. All right. What are we covering today? We already mentioned some spoilers. Just in case, this is helpful at all. here's a spoiler warning. We're talking about season four, episode 13, the I and team, roll your eyes grown. It's the initiative.

Through episode 22, Restless, a very strange and unusual season finale for Buffy, a kind of sort of like, a very special episode of Buffy that's like tacked on to the end of the season is sort of what Restless feels like. I'm excited to talk to you about that. So that is, the I& team, goodbye Iowa, this year's girl,

who are you, superstar, where the wild things are, Newman Rising, the Yoko Factor, evil and restless, so many two-parters in this stretch here. It's very like Dr. Hooey kind of set up here. Anything else you want to say before we get to sort of our opening snapshot? Now I'm excited to dive in. Let's do it. Buffy season four. Okay, so something that we had talked about in our part one is I promised you I would get my ducks in a row about sort of what the initial plan for the season was versus what we got because we both agree that the initiative as a plot line is not really a stunner

and sort of what happened with the big bad and all of that this season. So the answer is there isn't like a clear, clear answer because there's some conflicting reports. But what Lindsay Krause, who played Professor Maggie Walsh, said on my pal, Jenny and Kristen's podcast,

buffering podcast, only a couple years ago, was like, contrary to popular belief, I did not ask to leave Buffy mid-season. That was sort of the story that went around for a while. two weeks before I was killed off, Joss called me, was like, we're going to kill you off. So, like, she was like, that was not my call to make. They decided they didn't want me.

Here's a Marty Knoxin quote from, I think, around season six is when she gave this quote to Entertainment Weekly. She said about Professor Maggie Walsh, potentially being the big bad of season four, she said there were a lot of things that we were going to do and never did. In season four, Maggie was going to be much more of a mother figure for Riley, introducing to another girl to lure him away from Buffy.

We thought it would create some Shakespearean jealousy. and then we went, eh, forget it. But most of the changes throughout the series have had to do with actors coming and going. We had a lot more plan for Seth Green, for example, but his departure to do films, open the door for Tara, which is something we never expected.

And there would have been far more Angel Buffy angst if he hadn't gotten his own show. So, like, is that appealing to you this idea of, like, Doug Petrie, another Buffy writer, has said it was always their plan to have Adam Kill Maggie. He did not in that interview say when he was going to do that. So, like, if this sort of, like, Frankenstein's monster, mother, son dynamic as parallel with Riley and Adam could have maybe

gone through the back half of the season and then Adam kills her and it's still just like Adam v. B. Buffy and the combined forces at the end. That's a possibility. But like there is no clear, clean, clean answer available in sourceable quotes for people who worked on the show. There are plenty of theories, but nothing clean. What does any of these pseudo answers? What do they do for you?

Mallory. I don't know. It's interesting because like we started to get into in our season four part one pod last week, and I think he's even more keenly felt in this back half of the season, which is like very initiative Adam Riley's crisis of faith about his role in the initiative centric. I think that a lot of the like questions and themes and ideas are interesting, but the execution leaves me wanting. And I think there are like in season four across, reason for, you know, particularly in the first half on the college front when we're in, like, there's barely any college in these 10 episodes. It's almost like incidental that they're at college, though there's a very core thematic aspect of what does it mean to move from high school

to college in terms of growing apart for people that will come into play. But it's really rooted around the initiative. And so would certain tweaks like that on the timing front have made things more effective or impactful? I think it's possible at the end of the day, I think, think that this is just like not as compelling as the big bads who came before, whether that's like something, you know, as wonderful as the mayor and everything that happens with faith or the master or, of course, Angel and too Angelus and Spike and Drusilla. And, you know, I think that the beginning of these episodes that we're talking about today, something happens that is quite, I think, emblematic of this, right? On the, like, this is intriguing and interesting.

would it have been more effective over a different, like, if it had been dispersed over a different period of time, I don't know. Buffy, going like kind of all in on the initiative and having these moments

with Willow of like, wait, don't you think we should be asking more questions? The Giles, don't you think we should be asking more questions? Especially because part of what makes the end of season three such a absolute wallup

in the best possible way is graduation in more than one of form. and Buffy deciding to leave the Watcher's counsel behind, right? Like the idea that what Buffy is doing as the Slayer, what the Scoobies are doing as a unit, the idea of being a part of something larger is not the problem, but the idea of letting these kind of like shadowy power figures tell you what to do is in conflict in some way with how Buffy lives,

which like we get to hear kind of brought to the four again at the end and restless when Buffy confronts the first slayer and is like, I'm not alone, actually, right? So I think there's something so tantalizing about putting Buffy right back in a circumstance, in part because she's like, I'm interested in doing this with my boyfriend and Riley and I get to like kick ass together and we can be out there fighting demons together that's conceptually compelling. But when Buffy was back there, I found myself so firmly rooted.

And again, it's like so quick that it all falls apart and the Comcam, like, you know, you don't know what a Slayer is moment is like that happens really fast in these stretch of episodes. But when Willow is like, what's going on here? I'm so firmly rooted in the Willow camp there that I don't think I would have wanted it to last longer, actually. I think it is interesting because, like, I think I've seen a lot of people interpret Riley's, again, if Riley were a more compelling character,

this would be interesting, but like Riley's journey through blind faith in an institution to this, like, I'm an anarchist, like reaction than he has later or whatever. as sort of like corn-fed Iowa boy goes to college and sort of breaks from some religious indoctrination or something like that into sort of questioning larger authorities, whether or not you want to see that as like overtly the church or something else, but just sort of like the idea of like corn fed Iowa used to existing inside of a system goes to school in California and is like, whoa, has his mind expanded.

And the idea that, like, Buffy for a second is like, hey, maybe I'll join this church with my boyfriend or something like that. Is inside of that institution always asking questions? Like Willow and Jals are like, let's ask more questions in general. But as soon as Buffy's inside the door, she's asking questions that Riley and Forrest and the rest of them in Graham have like never asked, right? And she's the one who's like in that great shot of her sitting amidst all of the commandos of their briefing in her pink culture that she's, worn patrolling many times, like just like sticks out like a sort of thumb. It's a great visual. So I like those layers, though, of just sort of like Buffy asking questions, but not asking

the bigger picture, even some of the bigger picture questions that a Willow and Giles are asking. And also, sorry, the last thing I'll say about this is like so much of the emotional, yes, yes, in theory, the emotional thrust of the final couple episodes are Buffy's greatest strength as a Slayer is her friends is the fact that she's not one girl in all the world, but part of a team and a family. And they've explored that before, but this is even more overt, et cetera, et cetera. Like, all of that is interesting. But a lot of the back half is about Riley's emotional journey. Like, it's Riley's choice and it's Riley's like agitation and disillusion and all sorts like

that. And I'm just like, A, not compelled by him. And B, I want this show to be about Buffy. Yeah, at the end of the day. So, yeah, exactly. I think that that's, that's, that's, that's the main crux for me as well. Again, I like when Buffy, it feels human to me to make this big declaration about your life and then sort of be compelled back into another version of that thing. I think that's human. That's normal. I agree with you that the speed and haste with which Buffy wants inside those doors is like,

what's going on here exactly feels right and interesting? I don't think that Buffy leaving the Watchers' Council at the end of season three means that for the rest of time and perpetuity, she would never be or should never be interested in, like, participating in a larger force. I think that the fact that so much of Buffy's storyline in the back half of this season is tied up in Riley's journey, Adam, and the initiative is just a little bit less compelling

because we're watching some really wonderful stuff, I think, with Anya and Xander and Willow and Tara and Jail's, and they're in part because they're like a little bit on the outside of that looking in. I do think that the, like, I've had some sort of awakening about the differences and entwinments in, like, being a follower or being a leader and the way that Buffy is then kind of imparting that wisdom and helping somebody else have the scales fall off of their eyes from the, through the wisdom that she has learned, like, not just because someone else told her, but from her firsthand experience, is interesting. Riley's just not an

interesting enough character to carry 10 episodes of that as a little. a journey. I think like the overall connection, and this is obviously not just true with the back half of the season, this is true for Buffy writ large and as part of what's so compelling about it, but this is like a very identity driven stretch of story. And I love that. And I think again, that's emblematic of like you have even something like Jonathan's return, obviously, Giles, like what role do I have? Willow and Tara. Spike, you know, could I, be a scooby? Do I want to be? Faith coming back. Buffy. But then like Adam and Riley so much of the way their stories are positioned Riley's Crisis of Faith and Adam like I am the one with this

awareness about what it means to be alive in a way that nobody else like possesses. There's a version of that that would be like really I think scintillating this idea of being pieced together from other bits of humanity and demons and machines and machines. and then what does that make you and what do you do with that insight? Like, I like that. Yeah, some Boy Scouts. Some Boy Scouts in the mix there.

Some Boy Scouts in the mix there. I agree that like parts of conceptually, as you said from the beginning. Conceptually, this is interesting. Adam is such a stultifyingly dull character in my view that even when you pair him with spike towards the end of the season, it doesn't even like, they put him with the biggest charisma bomb they had in the cast.

and it's still just like, another Adam story. One of the thing I want to say, and we got some emails and some comments about this, is like there's a, there's a strong rumor, a fan theory that the character of Sunday, who we meet in the first episode,

was initially their idea was to make her a slayer who had been turned into a vampire, a slave pyre, and have her as like a longer antagonist for Buffy and then scrap that. There is no concrete sourcing I can find for that, at all. Like, there have been podcasters who have said on their podcast, well, Joss Whedon said, and then people report that as fact, but they do not have quotes from Joss. And so just sort of like,

there are no quotes about this. But as people are chewing this idea over, they're like, it could be that people thought that was, you know, if that was an idea they had, and again, I have no confirmation it was. But if that was an idea they had, is that an idea that's too close to faith, like right off the back of faith to be like another sort of Slayer-V-Slayer idea. something I will say it's not about the sleigh-pire concept but like I can see the germs of a later

really well done big bad in the Sunday character so I think it's possible that like with Sunday they were like there's something here about this sort of like girly energy versus girly energy that we haven't really you know because it's just sort of like Buffy's girly energy versus like

big bad men and all this sort of stuff like that so it's sort of like what if it's like Buffy facing off against someone who's like a little bit more her coded. What would that look like? That's something that the show will explore. So I think, you know, something's interesting. Okay. You mentioned what's interesting going on elsewhere around the initiative and Adam and you

mentioned Zander and Anya. And I just, you know, we had briefly touched upon this in part one, this idea of like, I think this might be Zander's best series overall. I'm not going to ask you to comment on that because obviously you haven't seen five, six, seven yet, but I do. And I was trying to figure out why I think that is. And I think, yeah, there's a couple things that play here. First of all, being paired with Anya, Emma Cofield, which is not unique to the season,

but like being paired with Emma Cofield as a team partner is going to just sort of like boost anyone's curating in my view. Like it's just like, it's so good. She's so good with everyone. When they put her and spike together in this background of the season, you're just sort of like, electric. We're living, right? Yeah.

So there's that. There's also, like, the toxic Xander, I hate Angel with such a, like, toxic male at fiery passion stuff, is largely absent from the season, except it comes roaring back in the Yoko Factor in a way that I'm just sort of like, oh, right, this is the Xander I don't like. When the premise of that entire episode, the Yoko Factor is Spike is sowing seeds of discord among the Scoobies, except he doesn't even have to do it with the Riley Buffy thing because Zander got there first. just did it on his own without being part of the villain plot. So I was just sort of like, yeah, that's the Xander stuff that was like really present in the first three seasons that is not here for most of the season. And that is like is is really refreshing. So I like, I just think that like they figured out. There's a lot that didn't figure out was Xander.

As you mentioned, he and Giles are both like, who am I if I'm not a watcher? Who am I if I'm not a classmate of Willow and Buffy? Willow saying, who am I if I'm not straight? You know, Riley's saying, who am I if I'm not a member of the initiative? All that sorts of like, who am I without this larger definition to me? Spike, who am I if I'm not able to suck blood, etc. But with Xander, there's something like temperamentally that I think they really figured out this season. Any thoughts without being able to comment on 5,67 that you want to add here?

I just, yeah, I love the Zander season. I really agree. I think it's like so complicated. compelling in the highs and the lows. I think he feels simultaneously very, like, assured as a character and insecure as a person, which is a great combo, you know. And the ways in which he is, like, navigating his own anxiety about his place in the world feels, I think, very true to the Xander Harris that we have spent time with, and also to just, like, maybe how you would be navigating that phase of your life, if you went from high school into what should be the college years and your friends go off, not only to

college, but college together and you're not there, but you're close enough to be reminded every minute of every day that you're not there. And you actually have this pretty amazingly compelling relationship with this smoke show who's obsessed with you, but you're also like constantly having to remind her in plain view of other people like, this is a private moment and this is like, you know, et cetera. It's just, it's such a great blend of, you know, that classic Xander mix of human, of the humanity, the humor, the heart, all of it. I think that the vulnerability that we see from Xander, and like I think the moments in the prior seasons where he really made big mistakes and erred and behaved badly, like I, you know, as we talked about on those pods,

was often disappointed by him or frustrated, but also like had enough of a germ of understanding of like how he could be moved to behave that way. I think in this, stretch, like, you know, something like after Spike has worked his manipulation, right? It has incepted all of them. And we see the way that each of them responds to that. And Zanders is just like, it's just to be bold over, like, unable to get out of bed because he's like, these people like who are the most important thing in the world to me don't need me. You know, I thought it was like, and then Anya coming in in that sequence and like she is, I basically couldn't keep, you know, we have an Anya category again today, and I was like, it's going to be hard to keep this,

like, under 20 candidates. Like, it's just such an incredible stretch of episodes from her. She's hysterical. She kills me, like, every time I'm just cackling so much my ribs hurt. She's smart. She's sharps. She's sexy. She's blunt.

She's direct. All of it. The depth of, like, love and comfort in that moment, when she's just like, you know, you're good person and a good boyfriend and I'm in love with you, like, what they think of you shouldn't matter. And of course, it matters more than anything in the world because they're the closest people to him. But it's just, I don't know. It felt like such an authentic evolution of a relationship for them. So I really, really love that. But then it's like still Xander, so you go into the dreamscapes of Restless and he's like, Joyce, Joyce wants to fuck. Tara, Willow or hook it up in the back

of my ice cream truck. Like, it's just the full Zander experience, but really well. calibrated. So I quite enjoyed it. Yeah. I love also. I love that scene like when she, you know, snuggles him and says like you're a good boyfriend. I love you. But also that it opens with her just like lifting up the quilt and like the eyebrow raise when she sees his, uh, his dick under the covers. And she's like, you know, you can't go down to the unemployment office like that. They wouldn't even interview of you if you're naked. Like she's just, she's perfect all this. She's amazing. I love her. All right. I want to do a quick Tara check in with you. Okay. I mentioned sort of offhandedly on the pod last week that I'm not a huge Tara fan. This really seemed to perturb people. And I understand

why, because the Venn diagram of Joanna's interests of, like, which stuff go and, like, queer representation, like Tara's smack dab at the center of it. Plus, you know, Miss Kitty Fantastico is here. You know, there's a cat involved. Like, you know, it should be very much my shit. And I will say, when I first watched the show, and I think largely because there was just so little representation for queer couples in this way, I was really into the Willow. and Tara stuff. I think, you know, there's a part of me that would always feel a little touchy about it because I love Oz so much and I really don't, you know, and because I didn't watch season four live, it was like, Oz is just like gone and I had to like go back and figure

out why. So like that's a whole thing. But I think letting people know that in 2000 when the Tara and Willow stuff is kicking off, there was so little representation. And even though Tara and Willow are here on this, and unequivocally a couple, that is the text of the show. Yeah. We don't get to see them kissing. We see them say, I love you before we see them kiss because the network said they couldn't kiss, right? So you've got these, like, you've got the sex spells, essentially, or you've got the, like,

cutaway in Xander's dream, but like, yeah, right, or blowing out the candle. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But these characters are not allowed to kiss on television. That's how, like, that's how groundbreaking. this storyline was, right? You have my so-called life,

Ryan Phillipie on the soaps. You've got Jack on Dawson's Creek, you know, like, but this is just like very, you know, especially for women. Like, this is, this is just like a huge. So, like, in that way, Tara and Willow will always be hugely important for me in terms of what I did for television.

And Tara as this sort of like, shy, stuttering character, I do think is interesting. I think Amber Benson's like a very compelling, like beautiful. person. I just don't know that I think she's acting at the caliber of everyone around her. And again, you know, you're just meeting her. We'll have, you know, some more time to dig into Tara. But what are your first impressions? How are you feeling about her?

I'm a big fan so far. I know it's one season for me. I don't actually don't know how long Tara will be around. You know, as we've mentioned before, our prior pods, there are some things I do know about the future of the show and certain characters and much that is undiscovered country for me. So I don't know how long Tara will be around, but I hope it's for a while. And I'm really enjoying the Tara Willow relationship and their respective journeys of discovery.

And just like there's such a tenderness with Tara as a character and inside of that relationship. And I'm so invested in Willow that I think, like, what she is learning about, about herself and the way that she is, you know, learning to understand. And it'll come up in another category when we get to our supporters today, so I won't step on it here. But like one of the moments that I loved so much in these episodes is in Oz's return

and New Moon Rising when there are a number of great Willow Tara conversations in that episode. But one of the ones that just hit me so hard was Tara saying, like, you know, I know what as means to you and Will is like, how can you and I don't? You know, and so I just found all of that like very powerful and moving. Tara is, I think that all of the aspects of her character that I've seen so far, the sort of like gentleness and the quiet, there's something about the way she encourages Willow and her magic and that they encourage each other that is very like empowering and just nurturing.

and I love that as something in a romantic partner and a friend and someone you're pursuing like a pursuit with, pursuing a pursuit professional podcaster here, folks. Signs and portents. Signs and portents. Signs and portents and signs. The way in the Wicca group meeting with the other students that not only right away we feel that synchronicity between Willow and Tara as people who are. connected to this magic and to the idea of being a witch and the role of magic in their lives that is distinct from the other people who show up for some completely like lesser reason,

maybe the social hang or the kind of like whatever. But beyond just that connection that affords us right away between the two of them, I loved what it told us about Tara, you know, the way that the kind of, like mean girl in the group is like, did you have something to say? And then Tara recedes and it's shy. And so it shows us the shyness, but more than that. And this is about like her magic is a witch. You know, you mentioned the stutter, her sexuality and navigating that. You wonder right away like how many times and how many moments in Tara's life here at Sunnydale, but in all the years before, has she been surrounded by a group of people who

don't see her clearly and accept her for who she is or embrace her for who she is. So I just feel very tenderly toward her. And, like, I thought that the kind of graciousness and generosity with which she navigated Oz's return was, like, pretty amazing. And that not a lot of people on this show and any walk of life would have been able to be that giving to another person. So I'm a fan so far. I'm excited to see.

And of course, she's a cat lover. So, you know, harrowing for me to confront that Willow was, like, team dog. I love dogs. I love all animals. But then wonderful to see how quickly Willow was just absolutely captivated by the cat. So yeah, I'm a fan. I feel protective of Tara and of their relationship, and I'm excited to see where it goes. Any theories or, you know, there's a few hints of something else going on with Tara this season. Any theories cooking around that? Yeah, so I was going to ask you about,

there's the like this kind of sabotaging of the spell moment, which when I watched the first time, season four, I was like, wait, did I miss when they close the loop on that? And then when I rewatched it, I was like, I don't believe that we got clarity on that, at least inside of this season. So sometimes, especially in like a 22 episode season of a show, things happen and maybe they've remained open loops. But that struck me as something that we will return to at a certain point. So because that's early in their relationship, initially on my first watch, I was like, should I be on my guard with Tara? But then that very quickly faded as a question or concern for me.

It just didn't seem like Tara was being presented in any way outside of that one moment of putting the dust under her bed. Like a character we should be doubting and somebody who might be positioned as having like impure intentions. So could I be wrong? Maybe. But I don't think it's setting up like some sort of Tara's actually bad reveal. What struck me as more likely, especially on a rewatch, having spent more time with. Tara is like either that something about the specifics of the spell they're working in that moment, looking for the demonic energy, like made her nervous that she had a specific concern about

the power of that spell. I don't know why that would be, but that seems like a possibility. And then I guess the other option would be just more broadly that there was some anxiety about like losing Willow or wanting to basically like draw out the period of time that Willow would need to be going there to do magic

and spending time with her. So those were the things that occurred to me but yeah, is this something that we will be getting an answer to eventually? Yeah, okay. Okay, great. Yeah. There's a lot of, once you know what they are,

I think in restless especially, there's just like a lot of seeds that are planted for future storylines and stuff. How many of them have to do with the cheese slice guy? Oh, the cheese man. Who could be more important than the cheese man? You know what I mean? Wild.

All right, the characters that linger. So I just want to talk about the way in which they like continually use characters in a way that I, you know, we get, Faith comes back for a two-parter. Jonathan's here and he gets his own episode. Anya being bumped up from, you know, from season three into season four, Spike coming back from like a big bad into recycling into becoming a main character in the show. Or things like bringing the mayor back for, you know, the Spike two-parter or or the fifth two-parter.

Or Prismal Snyder shows up and restless. You know what I mean? Incredible. We're, you know, harmonies here. We're using all parts of the universe to make it feel like a tapestry. And it's always exciting, I think, when those characters come back. And I'm curious. A lot for Spike, for Anya, for faith for Jonathan,

this is all part of, like, at different speeds, something like a redemption arc or a growth arc for all of them. Yeah. Big picture, I know we have a whole faith category that we will get into when we get into our superlid. So big picture, bringing faith back. What did you think? How did that work for you?

I'm thrill of my life. I mean, again, the highs in this season are really high. Like, I love these faith episodes. I think that, um, clearly there's some more material waiting for me there an angel, so I'm excited about that. This falls into the like, I don't know bucket. I don't know how much more faith is ahead of me, either in Buffy or an angel. But I thought that this was really smart.

And not only do we have a faith category coming in our superlatives, but I have faith reflected in other categories as well in the superlatives. It was just a pretty powerful showing across those two episodes. So I'll try not to just hit everything that we're going to talk about later, but I thought it was just really like tight and efficient and smart and well done. Like we get the, you know, harlot lipstick, like the faith in Buffy's body, flirting with Spike and T teasing Spike at the bronze, like incredible. I have no doubt we both have that coming in our categories today, which just seems impossible that we wouldn't.

The bathtub scene, the mirror sequence, and these are, you know, moments performed in those cases by Sarah Michelle Geller, but its faith is a character. So that's, like, brilliant. You know, we talked so much across our season three pods about, and even previously, you know, we've more than one additional Slayer now, like, what is that other slayer telling us about the idea of the Slayer, but also about Buffy? And what are they telling Buffy about herself? There was something to me about bringing Faith back this eight-month coma and a real. it's like, oh, that stuff didn't go away. That just felt to me like really representative of the confidence that this show has and its intention. Like there's a version of it where Faith returns and Buffy and Faith are like,

we really let things get out of hand. Let's find a way to move past this. And like maybe in the future of their shared story, that will happen and they would reconcile. I think that would be very interesting if there's a path to that. But the fact that it wasn't neat and tidy and easy, like Faith comes back and she wants revenge and she has been tormented in her dreams by, you know, drops of blood on the floor and then looking down and there's a knife in the gut, right? So like, you know, the snake on the picnic blanket with the mayor, like, I thought that

Faith watching the tape from the mayor was, even though he was saying things, it was a great return to the mayor experience where he was saying things that are like, if you stop and pause and think about them and break them down. so fucked up, like making Faith think that she has no place in the world without him. But also, I was like, I'm, like, really affected by what I'm watching. That's the, it's the perfect mayor cocktail, right? Yeah. Harry Growning as the mayor is like, again, it's just like impeccable to me every time.

But that intoxicating blend of just sort of like, I mean, I have it, I have that in my most emotional moment category, which is like super weird. But it's just like, I got so emotional. watching her, watch that, watching her like smile at his dumb dad jokes, like all that sort of stuff like that. And then like, yeah, and then he's just saying the most toxic shit to her

when he's just sort of like, without me, your days are numbered and that's just it, baby girl, like you're nothing without me. Like, it's horrible, but also just like, you want comfort for faith. I'm still always rooting for faith.

And so, you know, and then this body swap storyline, which is like, you know, something that, you know, every genre show wants to do, but like this walk a mile in your skin idea, like this is largely a sort of like faith as portrayed by Sarah Michelle Geller experience and it's a knockout experience. Unbelievable.

But Buffy as portrayed by Eliza Dushku, the way when the watchers like spit in her face and call her it and all this sort of stuff like that, like what that is forcing Buffy to confront about what are the experience of just being a faith in the world, you know what I mean? It is much more about the movement that happens for faith as a character over the arc of those episodes, but there is some movement there, as there should be in a body swap episode for Buffy as well. And I do. I think this is like, they might be my other than like, hush, you know, I love something blue and I love some of this other stuff. But like in terms of like the show at its best when it's just like hitting emotionally psychologically inside of a genre concept, I think.

I think this two-parter is the highlight of the season for me. Yeah, really excellent. I loved it. Yeah. Followed quickly by Superstar with Jonathan, which is another, like, incredibly executed genre storyline. Unbelievable. Really good.

And like, when you think about Jonathan, like, when you watch that episode, and they had so much fun with the credits in both Who Are You and Superstar, where they're like Eliza Dushka is Buffy in the credits for Who Are You? and then inserting images of Jonathan in the opening credits for Superstar is so funny. His slow walk towards the camera is just like absolutely iconic. But that puts Jonathan in the Buffy role inside of those credits. And so you think about like faith in her ever since we met her, like desire to be Buffy in a way,

her hatred for Buffy and her desire to be Buffy in a way. Jonathan wanting to be Buffy. Kathy wanting to be Buffy at the beginning of this season. Professor Walsh in like, I want to be Buffy. Riley's number one girl wanting to be Buffy in a way, Forrest and I want to be Riley's number one girl in a way wanting to be Buffy. Like all these people wanting to be Buffy being like this ongoing theme of the season. I think it's really interesting. And then like Buffy spending so much of the season not being herself, whether it's like under a spell in something blue or captivated by

a sex spell and where the wild things are or, you know, in this faith two-parter. I just think it's like, really, again, such interesting concept this season so patchily executed. But this question of identity, which we hammered a lot in season three as this idea of foils, like who are these reflections of all these people? And it's a little less that, even though Faith is back and Faith is the ultimate foil for Buffy. But it's just a little bit more like, how do you define yourself in this bigger world when you leave high school and you know who you are? You're Buffy the Vampire Slayer and you are a high school student by day and a slayer by night and your boyfriend's a vampire, and you understand that's your role.

And then all that stuff goes away. Faith comes back and she's like, angels don't even here anymore? What are we doing? I just think all of that stuff, though messily executed, is really interesting. And so even something is like dumb and seemingly one-off as superstar, which is like a surprisingly consequential episode when like Jonathan's the one who figures out Adams power source and that's like the answer at the end of the season to a certain degree

or Jonathan's the one who fixes Riley and Buffy's relationship and in theory if I cared about that, that would be consequential. So like there are consequential things that happen inside of this sort of like in other scenes of Buffy it would be like a one-off episode that is disconnected, totally disconnected from anything that's happening in the larger sense of the plot. I just really, I love it. What did you think of Jonathan's return here? So often when we're watching these episodes, because, well, you've seen them a million times, and I'm watching them for the first time, and then the second time, I'm texting you a lot of screenshots of my TV. There are just a lot of pictures of my TV.

Very frequently, there are pictures of Giles, but other things as well. And so you typically know, because of the text I've sent you where I am in the season. And I sent you some stuff. I was sending you many things from the faith episodes, and then I sent you something from where the wild things are and you were like, you didn't text me at the Jonathan episode.

Like, I can't believe you didn't send me anything from the Jonathan episode. And I was like, I couldn't find like, a photo to stand in for there's no way to isolate a moment.

And then you immediately responded with the shot from the credits of him walking toward the camera. But I want, I'm inclined, to say that like nothing could have prepared me for the superstar Jonathan episode, except for the fact that many months ago you introduced to Jonathan category into the superlatives that always indicated that many surprises awaited me in the future. I was sort of hoping that

like earshot had had told you that like that was why or class protector, like that you would be like, oh, that's why she was hammering Jonathan and then you would be a blindsided by superstar, but you're too smart for that and I can never pull it over on you so that's okay. Hardly. I think it was interesting. It's a Jonathan episode. It's interesting because of the, I want to return to what you were just saying about the other people who want to be near or like Buffy because I think that's such an astute and essential observation. I think this idea of like alternate realities across this stretch of episodes was really interesting too. And like of course that connects to this larger examination of identity. Part of like the question of who am I is what is my.

role in the world, and so if the shape of the world changes. Now, this has been something that Buffy has played with many other times before, right? Like, Vampire Willow is in our lives for a reason. So it's certainly not the first time, but an alternate reality in which Jonathan is perfect and good and everything and the driver behind all of the moments that protected, safe humanity is a version of that. But, like, the alternate reality. in their dreams and restless, like also give us a sense of a shape of a different thing. And then we parse that in that dream lens for like meaning and clues about what might await. So I just like when the show finds a way through the plot, you know, and mechanic of a given

episode to tell us something about how people see themselves and how the world around them sees them. I really love what you're saying about all the people in the season who like want to be Buffy for two reasons. Like one, I think it's really interesting that all of those examples that you gave,

like there's something different in it for each of them. You know, Riley, for example, like, he is, I mean, he has his insecurities, of course, right? We talked about that a little bit last pod, but he really looks to Buffy as he is losing his grasp

on like his sense of certainty and says, you understand what you're fighting for and why. Like, I envy that. You know? That's giving us something different from Kathy, who is like, I do plan to drop some blood down your throat and put a scorpion on you and to mentor suck your soul out of you so that I can run away from my demon dad and go to college. Cool. But it's all, all those different versions of it are playing out against the people who know Buffy best.

and who have admired her the longest, feeling further away from her than ever before, as everyone else is trying to get closer and get a piece of her. Like, I was so struck by, you know, again, we'll talk about the distance in the group many times today, but I was so struck in particular by the conversation between Tara and Willow about, like, rooms for sophomore year. And because there was just something almost so routine

about the way Willow said, like, you know, I kind of always thought that Buffy and I would like, live together forever and now like we barely even see each other at all so there's like this kind of chase of and desire for proximity from other people as there's a very like

organic and natural and sad distance and separation from the people who have been closest for the longest so that felt again even in just a classic buffy way the heightened supernatural circumstance like a very a rendering of something very true to life

I love that That's a great observation. And I think what I love, I love that conversation that sort of like, I thought Buffy and I were going to like, you know, live together until, and in that moment, Buffy is like missing Willow. She goes back to her room and Willow's not there. And she, you know, she would love to talk to Willow. But like, and then, of course, they have their sort of like rappelling down the elevator shafts reunion moment,

which is really, really good. That's great. Last one at least, before we get into our superlatives, I want to talk to you about the use of dreams in this stretch of the show. This has always been something that the show is engaged with in terms of Lake Buffy and her prophetic dreams. We get some of the beginning of the season, but here we get a bunch of dreams for faith, right? This is how we're spending time with faith while she's still in her coma in a weird, derelict abandoned floor of the hospital that I don't understand. Yeah. So in this year's girl, we get a, you mentioned.

the snake mayor of the pit people who get buffy has this sort of like relentless terminator villain character inside of her dreams uh faith in her in like a in like a pink slip skirt like something that she would never wear she's dressed in like buffy drag essentially um crawling her way out of the grave going full shawshank redemption in the rain sort of like rebirth moment um but but we go you know when we start we have buffy and faith making the bed together and we're back into end of season three riddle territory. Are these riddles fun for you or are they annoying for you

given that you don't know exactly what they're talking about here? So I always think the riddles are fun. I always like a dream riddle. I think that's interesting in general. The season three like Little Miss Muffet stuff, I guess maybe is connected to this,

though I still don't know that for sure. This time, the this year's girl Faith and Buffy making the bed stretch and let Faith saying little sis is coming, I know, so much to do before she gets here. And then later in Restless in Buffy's turn through the dream escape,

seeing Tara there. And Tara saying, you think you know what's to come, what you are, you haven't even begun, I need to go find the others, be back before dawn. Without spoiling people, anything for people who are watching in real time with us and have not started season five, which again, I have not started season five.

I do know the Dawn as a character who is coming to the show. I didn't know if you knew that. But I, so I know these are about, I know enough to know these are about Dawn. Yeah. I don't really know enough to understand how Dawn's introduction into the story will be like explained. I don't know, I don't know the details. So I kind of have a sense of the role. Dawn occupies in the story, but not the particulars yet.

So it's all Don stuff. And what's really fun, so Dawn, I think it's okay to say. Don, that character starts in the next season. So like we're right around the corner. But knowing that, and knowing that was always the plan, that's what the season three stuff is about.

So like all the way back in season three, they're planting this seed for season five, including the number of days that they're counting down at the end of season three are like the number of days until that character shows up in season five. And that's just like, fun, nice. Cool. Anyway, so you know about Dawn.

I was just trying to be protective of you in case you didn't. I appreciate it. I'll reveal later when we get to certain key episodes how I know some things about Dawn, but also just in a totally spoiler-free way. Like I've told you before, I'm watching these on Hulu. And, you know, I have an Apple TV. So, you know, on the main Apple TV home screen,

one of the tiles. It's just Buffy and Dawn. So I'm like, it seems like this, probably a pretty big deal. Cool. All right. Well, that's that. I do think, I will say,

you think you know what's to come, what you are, you haven't begun. I think about that all the time, especially the way that Amber Benson delivers that. You think you know what's to come, what you are. And then also very intriguing.

Death is your gift as also a part of restless. I think about it'll also like the way she says it inside of that episode. So, yeah, dreams. They matter. Here we go. All right, anything else you want to say before we get into our superlatives,

which we'll use to cover a bunch of other stuff, obviously. No, I think I'm ready for our categories. Here we go. All right, we're going to start with favorite line. I have a clip for this one, so if you don't mind, I will go first. Please. Right. You can't just go Libram and Cinderet and expect...

Sandra don't speak Latin in front of the books. I know I said last time that I was like... Amazing. I was distinguishing between funniest line and favorite line, but Xander, don't speak a lot in front of the books, is one of my favorite Buffy lines all the time. So I really wanted to put it here. So there we go.

That was my pick as well. I have, as usual, a couple runners up, but I was like, this is a perfect television moment. It was just so great. And, you know, like we said a lot, last pod, I just think that not only was this a really good season for Zander, for Spike for Giles, but the interplay between those three characters

was absolutely wonderful. Their interaction in the faith two-parter when they meet in the alleyway. Incredible. It's just really good stuff. We're dumb. Yeah, that was great. What are some of your runners-up?

Yeah, some runners-up. Okay. I already mentioned this, but when Buffy says to Walsh in episode 13, if you think that's enough to kill me, you really don't know what a Slayer is. Trust me, when I say you're going to find out. Badass.

This is great stuff. This is a good example of like this definitely could have gone in a number of other categories, including hornyest and funniest. But in episode 15 when Sanders trying to fix the initiative blaster, he's like, it's called a blaster will a word that discourages experimentation. Now, if it were called the orgasminator, I'd be the first to try your basic button press approach. That killed me. Great stuff.

Really good. I love in Where the Wild Pets. things are when, this is another Xander one, when Anya shows up at the party with Spike, and Zander says, we had a little fight. That just means that we have to work our way through some stuff. It doesn't mean that we rebound with the evil undead. Like incredible Zander line and delivery is so good. He says, by the way, having just hit on a woman at that party, just, you know, Zander, look at the bear. Yeah, just found himself flirting in real time and not really knowing how to navigate it. I was proud of him when he only went for the

peck on the cheek during spit in the bottle, though, you know? Yeah. And then some of the lines you just mentioned from Restless are in the mix. Of course, of course. I want to hit you with a spike, a spike line that could go in funniest as well, but I do think I've got a cousin married to regurgitating from a demon that's got better instincts than you. Anytime that Spike makes fun of Buffy's, like, dating life is pretty phenomenal. So, yeah. It's incredible stuff. I absolutely love it.

I think of the Buffy confronting the first Slayer moments, the line, because there are some really good ones in that stretch and restless, the line that I loved the most and felt most like Buffy to me, not even the character of the show, but also the character is, I'm not alone. The Slayer does not walk in this world. And then Buffy says, I walk, I talk, I show. stop, I sneeze. Like, that's just...

Very buffy. That's buffy. That's just perfect. It's true. You got it. I love to that. Yeah. All right.

Best villain of the week. Who are you going with here? So, faith does not count. Faith doesn't count. Beyond, yeah. Okay. Jonathan, I guess, could count. This is a tough one.

Jonathan could count. Yeah. I don't want to give it to Collins' Weatherby and Smith the... That's what I was going to go with. The leather-jacketed members of the council. Yeah. Yeah, and 16, Who Are You, The Watcher Council, goons returning to hold faith, you know, is really buffy, captive because it's like, I think because the pickets were a little more slim here

since this is such a, like, prime villain-centric stretch of episodes with Adam and the Initiative and, like, you know, Colonel McNamara coming in and then, like, our shatter's figures in a room at the end being like, burn it down and salt the earth, you know? So stupid. My God. That was tough. That was a real indictment of the initiative plotline at the end there. But yeah, the return of the Watchers Council in such a nakedly nefarious capacity was like, not that I think we had any doubts about Buffy's decision or Giles's decision.

But there was something that was just so clear. But it felt like it felt like a way to sort of try to rebrand the Watchers Council. when it's like, you know, Quentin Travers versus like, they're like leather jackets and like, you know, Collins especially is just sort of this like, you know. It's just like, I'm like, okay. So watchers, but they're cool now, I guess. And I should say this trio also crosses over into the faith angel arc.

I'll stop talking about that. Exciting. You'll watch it someday. Tough when, when, you know, the like chokehold move to try to get out of the Brinks truck and the other two were like we get our affairs in order

before we head out on a job. Yeah. Sorry, tough, tough look for Smith. I believe that's Smith there. Okay. And I also, you know, like as much as I love seeing the mayor come back or Snyder as Colonel Kurtz and Xander's dream or whatever, like, or Paula Trades

you prefer, it just really highlights how shitty the initiative is in comparison. So yeah. All right. Best fit. What do you have here? Okay. Let's see. I think I will go with a couple Buffy fits here from episode 14, goodbye Iowa. The yummy sushi pajamas. The big speech in the yummy sushi pajamas. Correct. That's on my list. I told you that the buffering listeners sent me like a care package when I was, when I had surgery last year. And in the care package was a yummy sushi blanket.

Like it's like a fleece blanket that has the yummy sushi pattern on it. So it sounds very sweet. How delightful. That's really nice. Yeah. What a cherished possession. The cats love it. I'll tell you.

The cats love sleeping on the yummy sushi blanket. All right. What else do you have? I liked when Buffy and Zander are attempting to infiltrate the initiative, and Buffy is dressed up like the scientist. So she's got, at first she's still, she's going to put the lap coat up. She's like holding it in a bundle. She's got the hair pulled back, the glasses, the turtleneck. She's very profesh.

Yeah. Thought it looked great. That's a contender. You know, I can't get through a best fit category without mentioning something that Giles did that looked hot. Obviously, there's always no shortage of contenders. but Giles in Prime Evil, episode 21, when Buffy has sort of pieced together what Spike is doing to the group,

and she calls them all, calls all the Scoobies to campus to meet. And we've previously seen Giles, you know, opened the door in his bathrobe, which I will be returning to in another category. But he comes to campus and he's in jeans, a sweater with a little bit of, like, you know, he's rocking on like Henley. Henley's got the Henley poking out from under it.

coffee cup in hand, mini mullet, just peek on trend, the earring is in. And he looks fucking great. Here's my question for you is, do you have, because we have,

you know, best fit and worse fit, do you have the glimpse of Giles as the director of the student production of the Ascot? Yeah, in best or worse. I've got it quite compelling.

He's got the ascot. He's laring like a blouse and a cardigan. There's a part in his hair which is new and no glasses, looked wonderful, thought that was very memorable. And then, of course,

Willow in the ice cream truck, Zander Dream in the kind of, like, sexy corset and silk, like shawl thingy. The bound, the les— No, no, it's— The what cows, he's bound lesbian gear.

Yeah. Okay, listen. Jonathan in his turtleneck and leather coat, I think it's a great look. I think he looks fantastic. I mean, he's just, he's going full neo. It's very memorable.

Fantastic. all of the buff buffy in faith clothing stuff the cleavagey slup bomb buffy era stuff is incredibly good i think the yummy sushi pajamas also the buffy white crochet top that she's wearing right after faith leaves her body and it's a very like still sexy but in a buffy way kind of look that i think really works really well and then she's wearing a long camel leather trench like i don't know what buffy's like i don't know what buffy's leather allowance is, like, from Joyce or whatever, but, like, she uses it to keep herself in coats galore. And the long camel leather trench that looks extremely expensive while she's walking through. But she pairs it with, like, such a 2000s, like, super chunky white, like,

beanie, knit beanie on top. A confusing look. But the leather trench is very, very good. So, yeah. I love it. Speaking of things that Buffy wears in her hair, worst fit, dear God, what were we wearing. Yeah. Is it the dumb little scarf bandana that becomes Riley's most treasured possession?

Is that your pick or do you have something else here? This is a two-way tie between that and something that I sent you a lot of photos of over the weekend

that we'll talk about in a second. But yes. Now, Buffy can pull off basically anything, but there's something about the combo

with the bandana and the leather jacket and everything which is out in the field. but specifically taking the bandana used and filthy after a hard day of work out of her hair and wrapping Riley's open handwood with it

that I almost don't know how anything else could be a candidate for worse fit except that this is a stretch of episodes that gave us in episode 15 Zander and Willow next to each other on the couch in Zander's basement Zander is in a rust orange polo and this like striped tan vest. It's just a very like of the moment memorable look. And then Willow is in this astonishing like... Even for Willow. Patch colored patch hat thing.

And the Joker necklace very of the moment again in this coat. And they just, it's wild. It's wild. It's like a clown car has erupted on that, on that sofa. Man. I also said like Buffy's spangled halter and the Ion team. Like, yeah, she can patrol in a halter if you want. There's just this, like, interesting, I don't know, pinkification of Eastern fashion thing that we did.

So, like, Buffy's Holter is very sort of like Indian, like coated in. Similarly, Tara is wearing this, like, pink sari sort of combo number in Restless. And then also at one point, Tara is just straight up wearing an obie, like, around her waist when she's, like, The willow-terra witch fashions, I just have a lot of questions in general, honestly. It's confusing clashing patterns galore for them constantly. The number of odd skirts that Tara will wear over the course of her run on the show, I just, I need to start making a list of them. They're baffling to me.

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It is not known if Zepound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pins or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to it or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer, or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop Zepbound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia.

If you're nursing, pregnant, plan to be, or taking birth control pills. Taking Zepbound with a sulfonel urea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsened kidney problems. Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-99 or visit Zepbound.lily.com. This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market. Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce and some very tasty limited time flavors. New Whole Foods, Market Peach, Apricot, Rose, Italian soda. Perfect for a picnic or brunch. As is their trending mango, Yuzu chantilly cake. But if you're on the go, new 365 strawberry pretzels make a great sweet snack. That sounds delicious. Get savings with yellow sale sign. store-wide and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring.

Save at Whole Foods Market. Anya's most hilariously blunt and or horny moment, we both have clips for this because Anya is a legend. Mal, let's start with your clip. Sad, afraid of being without you and a little hungry. I meant about the house. Oh, still hunted. I just could not love Anya more.

She is the best. That's from episode 18. where the wild things are, where just in that episode, I think there are like five, maybe ten contenders for this one category. It's just unbelievable.

I mean, this is where she's like, you know, she's upset that they didn't have sex last night and Zander says they've gone other nights without sex and she says, I know, twice,

I can't believe we're breaking up. Incredible. She's like, we didn't have sex. If that's what you mean, that's all I do now, not have sex. It's just like,

unbelievable. You mentioned, later when she lifts the covers and does the appreciative look at his dick here. This is what she says. I've just trying to tell you that we have nothing in common besides both of us liking your penis. And now I don't even have that. Incredible. But that moment when they go back to the house to try to get back him.

And Zander asks, because it's on the heels of all of those moments. It's a tense moment in their relationship, right? What are you feeling? Because the house is possessed. Right. And he wants to know what they are about to do. confront as they breach the threshold. And she responds with sad, afraid of being without you and a little hungry.

He says, I meant about the house. And she says, oh, still haunted. And I just think it's absolutely perfect. So a lot of other contenders from other episodes, but that's my winner. What's your clip? What's your winner? Carlos, we play my clip, please. You're not going away.

Why aren't you going away? Well, I was kind of hoping to look at some of Zander's stuff. Oh, sure. Come on in. Make yourself at home and so on. Incredible. That's from Superstar. That whole scene where Anya is just trying to read a book and Buffy is trying to investigate. It's really funny. Anya just like Bucf doesn't really care for Buffy or Willow, which Zander will just straight up say a little later on. And I just love that. I just love that she's just like, I don't really like you guys. I love Zander. and you guys are also here. What's all the fuss? Yeah. Incredible in that same stretch in Superstar when Anya thinks

that Buffy is feeling insecure and needs a pep talk. And she's like, oh, buck up you. You kill the best. Go you. Just leave. The entire shrimp runner in Superstar when she's talking about

alternate realities of shrimp. Extremely good. Okay, stay tuned. The best. That is, that's my pick for funniest moment. But I don't know why that made me laugh as hard as it did. And it's the comeback to it later that just sent it into God's territory.

Should we celebrate some other runners up here? There are a lot. What else is on your? We were going to light a bunch of candles and have sex near them is a great, a horny moment. Or like, well, she calls Xander a canonically a Viking in the sack. Huge moment. Yeah, yeah.

Huge moment for Xander. Yeah, I thought that's what you meant at the top of the pod when you said some big Xander questions answered in this season. Is he a my king of the sack? Sure is. Affirmative. In episode 13 in the poker scene, very funny in general, she's like, you know, somebody bet already I've got three K cards and then they all just fold.

Okay. I guess you have the winning hand, but specifically when, because Buffy's out with Riley, and Willow says, you know, you know how it is with a spanking new boyfriend? And Anya replies, yes, we've enjoyed spanking, and the cards just, explode out of Xander's hands. This is the sequel to the juice box moment. Incredible stuff. Loved it. Goodbye, Iowa. This is peak, just blunt, Anya, when Riley shows up and Buffy tells him that Walsh tried to kill her. And Anya cuts in and says, it didn't work, but they're all upset anyway. I absolutely loved that. So good. And then says to Buffy, you should really get yourself a boring boyfriend.

Like Zander and Buffy's like, that's kind of what I was trying to do with Riley. That's what I was going for. Just saying it all around. Yeah. Tough all around. Oh, God. I have to say, like, with all the insights that we get to Zander and Anya's sex life, it really makes like how extremely vanilla the Riley, Buffy, we're fucking this entire episode sex is just that much more disappointing.

So don't stop touching me. The thing is they couldn't have done that with Xander and Anya because the entire world would have ended. There would have been no way to contain it. Also, by Iowa, I love when Anya Buffy wants Zander to go with her to infiltrate the initiative. Anya doesn't want that. And Buffy's like, you know, he's got the military experience. And Anya says, it's not like he was in the nom. He was Chi I Joe for one night.

This is just so good. And, you know, that is something that we keep returning to. Zander gets the military garb to hand out. You know, he's got the flare gun. He, of course, ends up in his dream scape at Apocalypse Now, et cetera. So that was a great line. I really loved that. Let's see.

What else? What else? What else? Oh, boy. I liked when Oz showed up in New Moon Rising. And Johnny is just like, everyone's uncomfortable now. Just saying it out loud. Really great.

She's the best. We could just do an entire pod on maybe anything she said. She's a legend. Emma Coughfield, what a treasure. Okay. Riley's most exasperatingly dull moment, I would like to give it to when he and Buffy have sex for the first time during the I and team, which is like a cool sequence where he's cut in and out of them,

like, fighting together and them having sex the first time. His, like, face when she has sort of, like, mounted him. Yeah. It's just real like I had oatmeal for breakfast. Like it's so tough. I was like, that's your I'm fucking the Slayer face. He's just sort of like, it's just really tough. I was not for it.

I'm with you. Unsurprisingly, a lot of my candidates fall into that same bucket yet again of like this should be so much hotter than it is helpful for Zander to say also in the I and team. I think Riley's okay in an o-fish. I really kind of captured the spirit of it. But like, when Riley takes Buffy down into the initiative for the first time,

she's like, you said it was big. You told me, but you never said it was huge. And he's just like, don't like to brag. That's his like cute, flirty, like we're going to fuck up a storm so powerful. Can you awaken the repressed spirits of horny children? Everywhere he's like, don't like to brag. Yeah.

Also, I think in their attempt to like, oh god, this isn't working, try to fix Riley in the back of the season. He spends a lot of it walking around shirtless and they're just sort of attempt to be like, no, come on, he's a hunk. You like hunks? He is a hunk. Yeah, he is a hunk, obviously. But like, I don't want to look.

I don't care. I don't care. I don't have like a, you've given me indicators about how much awaits, but I don't have like an actual episode count for future appearances. And I might need you to give me one. We'll see. This connects to kind of what we were talking about just at the beginning of the pod, about the maybe shortcomings of the overall sort of initiative plot and how something like Riley,

like, questioning his role and it could be really interesting. It just isn't executed if maybe the fever pitch of excellence that prior storylines in the run-to-date had been. I think emblematic of that is like in Go-bye Iowa in his confrontation with Adam. Adam's like, and this is as much an Adam thing as a Riley thing, I guess, but it's like her art, you know, saying that they're both Walsh's favorite children, her art. That makes us brothers family. And Riley's just like, I'm not like you. And Adam says, that's pain, isn't it?

And then Riley's like, I can't be programmed. I'm a man. And I feel like there's a version of this storyline where, like, him shouting, like, I can't be programmed. I'm a man. Should be like riveting. Yeah. You know?

And especially because Buffy, it was really interesting to me. This is obviously a lot about Buffy and Angel and Riley's jealousy and feeling of inadequacy. But Buffy calling him out across these stretch of episodes later of like, you're a bigot, like the way that he responds to Willow and Oz. And of course, Buffy has like this thing she hasn't told him yet about her history with Angel. And then Riley's kind of like, I was behaving. You were right to kind of call me out on my prejudice.

And like, I'm going to try to be better. And it all should be so good. When the initiative captures Oz and Riley's like, wait, I know him. And you're like, yeah, good job, guy. Oh, because you know the human counterpart of this particular demon, this one is fine. And I think that's why people do like the religious indoctrination comp of just sort of like, you know, what is he sort of breaking out of? But yeah, it's... That's my winner, actually, is in New Moon Rising when he's been put in the...

After the attempt to spring, Oz fails and Riley's in the brig. And Buffy and co-realized that Riley's there too after they've infiltrated. and Buffy goes to get him. And right before walking out, Riley's like, if I leave now, I can't ever come back. Pause.

I just wanted to hear that out loud. And you fall asleep. He fell asleep while I was saying it. Also, also at the end when Riley is like under Adams' control because of his own inhibitor chip that's nestled in his left

boob. And he's supposed to be acting like under control and I'm like what's the difference I can't tell it's just sort of like lifeless Riley other Riley same same stuff all right best best fight see do you want the answer for how long Riley is around season five yeah tell me 10 episodes but like that's a lot it is a lot but but I don't think he's like I don't think he's like central in those you know what I mean like he's Central on his way out the door, I would say, but like, you know, in terms of like why he's leaving. But like up until then I think they're like, this isn't working, this isn't working.

And then they're like, this just really isn't working. Okay. Because they like didn't break up at the end of this season. I know. Tough for all of us. So that was worrying. We're all bummed. I promise you.

Okay. That was worrying. Best fight scene. This was easy for me. Oh, okay. Yes. But I don't know if we have the same answer. Maybe we do.

What do you have? I have in episode 15 this year's girl Faith finding Buffy on campus after she's woke it up She's had this interaction with the The civilian seemingly who's able to just walk into that secret Derelict floor at the hospital Has learned how much time has passed That Sunnydale High is a ruin

That the mayor is dead and finds Buffy And I just thought this scene was I think her enters to that scene is unbelievable. Incredible. Buffy's like, I've been looking for you. Faith says, I've been standing still for eight months, B, how hard you look? And I'm like, I am locked in.

Like, we're about to be treated to something delicious and excellent, and we were. Five by five, that's the thing about a coma. You wake up all rested and rejuvenated and ready for payback. So much for pleasantries, huh? What'd you think? I'd wake up and we'd go for tea. You tried to gut me, Blondie. Like, I was just like, we are so back.

It was amazing. I loved when Buffy said because they're on campus. There are just people walking by going to class. And Buffy's like, Faith, these are innocent people. And Faith says, no such animal. Yeah.

And Buffy says, I guess it was too much to hope that you'd use your downtime to reflect and grow. And then this is where Faith invokes Angel, which you mentioned earlier in Riley in the Dreams. Hysterical faith line here. That and some stuff about cigars in a tunnel. I got it. But tell me, college girl, what does it mean?

and this is like a part of why so you know they will quickly trade some punches and then the cops show up and faith will flee so this is more about a fight of intention and vitriol and words right but faith is on the attack even just finding like they're both looking for each other but faith has found her she's observed them through the window at giles is right um and so faith is very much like the aggressor here and then buffy comes in and you're just like right never for a second never for long is Buffy going to be on the back foot? So when Faith says, tell me college girl,

what does it mean? And even just college girl, like there's all that jealousy, right? To me, mostly that you still mouth off about things you don't understand. And I just thought that was epic. Like, really, really great.

I think that's a clear pick for like verbal fight. I think you're absolutely right. Also, like the comedy of Willow trying to like be involved a bit, great stuff. I gave it, in terms of physical fight, I gave it to the Buffy and Faith

Destroy the Summer's Home because I'm always worried about that craftsman as you know, I care about it deeply. They break a lot of furniture, poor Joyce. But yeah, Buffy and Faith fighting their way through the house I thought was really good. You know, like Buffy's entrance to the window, the like, hi mom, hi honey,

and all of that sort of stuff is really, really good. And then their fight throughout the house, I thought was great. Yeah, just that whole stretch of this season is amazing. I love, too, like one of my, like, a kind of related runner-up smuggle sort of between our two picks is Faith and Joyce, you know, when Faith is holding Joyce captive in her bedroom. That scene is electric. That scene is so good. And like to the point from earlier about how part of why I found these Faith episodes so rewarding is because, like, the history and the tension and the ferocity is so palpable and there's not instant reconciliation. And you feel all of that trauma and all of those wounds in this Faith Joyce moment, too.

like when she's just like Buffy's too busy to remember dear old mom. And even though Buffy does smash through that window and come to save her mom, in those couple of moments, you're like, that's true? Later as Sarah, you know, as played by Sarah in the next episode when she's like, I knew it. She hasn't been home. Like, you know, she was right.

And she's like, you have this mom and you just like don't even know what you're ignoring. Like I would kill to have this. craftsmen and have this cool mom and all sorts of stuff like that. Yeah, it's that great combo of like taking for granted the things that faith herself lacked and also just like really like luxuriating in any reminder that Buffy isn't as perfect as other people think. You know, it's just so good. All right. Let's see. What do we have next? Oh, great. Great for me. Hornyest clip. Horny's moment. I'm a clip. Let's play it. Even you, Spike. I could ride you at a gallop until your legs buckle

and your eyes rolled up. I've got muscles you've never even dreamed of. I could squeeze you until you pop like warm champagne and you beg me to hurt you just a little bit more. And you know why I don't? Because it's wrong. Your thoughts and feelings when you first saw that scene, please. Very powerful, very memorable, very impactful,

thrilled to tell you that that's also one of my clips today for another category. It's that good. Very of a piece with what we were talking about last pod in celebrating the genius of something blue and like getting to these characters and these performers just have this. Marster's once again making a meal out of this moment when he's just like when he does that like head tilt like pull towards her. I just feel like he's like really, and he's talked about this, really intentionally showing the writers, the producers, like, you want more of this. You want more of Spike and Buffy in close proximity. And I'm like, yes, we do. So do.

Yes, we do. And yeah, so it's perfect because it gives us a little taste of something forbidden between Buffy and Spike, but also it is faith driving Buffy's body there. And those words are faiths. And it is such a, and this is a very sexual structure. for Buffy, but that is such an overtly sexual faith approach there that it's just, it's this. And I mean, Spike looks like he is, has just melted. Even though he ends that with like, you know, we're going to have a confrontation at the end of that exchange.

In those moments, he is a lost to her completely. I would say a couple, in that same stretch of Sarah as faith in the Burr. when she meets Tara for the first time, and she's just sort of like splayed out on the couch. She's wearing like the leather pants or like that. And it's just like her legs are just like wide up and she's like spayed out on the couch. And I'm just like, yeah, that's also my horniest moment list.

It's just like the way she's sitting in that scene. Very good. Other options here, but what's your number one? I've got a pretty robust. Long list here. Yeah, the girthy list. You know, as is often the case, there are many eligible moments for the horniest moment category

that also belong in other categories. Anya, Giles' Most Daddy Moment, the Faith category, the Spike category. There's a lot of bleed. I could have definitely put this in Daddy, but I just had so many other contenders there that I decided to put it here in episode 22.

Restless. They're going to sit down to watch the movies. They've made snacks. And Giles... And Joyce is like, this is very normal for my daughter and her two friends that are the same age and also Mr. Giles. Who I have a movie night. More than once on the hood of a police car.

And that is on all of our minds when we see Giles come up behind Joyce and sort of reach around to sample her snacks as yes. As it were. As it were, you're sure you don't want to join us? And I was just like, you're like, somebody call Olivia, get your man. Time to steam clean another couch, folks. That was just really very, very powerful. So some runners off, but that had to be my pick. Some runners up I have is Spike in Giles Drag and Restless on the swing set.

Very important to me. Magical. Tara and Willow's sweaty sex magic, of course, very, very important. And then also the pillow book Tara moment, when Willow is sort of like painting on her back, that whole stretch also very, very horny. Yes, that is quite horny. Yeah, on the Willow Tara front in episode 14, when Willow tells Tara, like, I hope you don't think I just come over for the spells.

That's a great. That's wonderful. And yeah, on the magic front, that like the panting and moaning from Willow in episode 16, very memorable. And the magic, the magic they've created forms like literally an O over them. You're like, boy does it. I see. Boy does it. I think we've talked a lot about the Faith Buffy body swap, but I think it is undeniably horny. And we talked a lot in the episode three pods about the sexual energy and draw.

between Faith and Buffy. And so when faith is in Buffy's body, now look, everything, to be clear, everything that faith does with Buffy's body is like invasive and fucked up and wrong. Yeah.

Using Buffy's body to have sex with Riley is wrong and horrible. I'll go back to that in another category because I think of very... We believe an informed consent. Not good. It was not present in that scene. Terrible.

Bad. However. The bathtub. The bathtub. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because there's this draw between them and this energy between them. And so she is in Buffy's body and the way that she is like in the bubble bath kind of rubbing and exploring Buffy's body and her legs as she inhabits it. Notable.

Let's see. Episode 17 when Spike is like kind of rubbing and running his hands along Buffy's cheek and neck when they run into him, monster hunting and Jonathan's all over. that's very hot. In the, we're about to fuck a entire frat house into spawning orgasm walls stretch of episode 18. Riley opening his classic college boy stuff, but like real Colin and love actually like this bag is chocka block full condoms when he opens his nightstand. It's just like all the different condoms, different wrappers. Like a lot of individual ones. It seems like he's just scrapping them from maybe like a.

a fish bowl somewhere across campus. And obviously the orgasm wall in that episode. I mean, made me think of Steve Harrington in Stranger Things coming out when Billy shows up. And it's like, is that you, Harrington? Yeah, it's me. Don't cream your pants. Like a lot of just, like, creaming up the pants happening.

Has these boys touched the wall. And they're like, you know, and then I loved on the heels of the first bro who is like, the way language tastes, way it feels rolling off your tongue and then he touches the wall. He's just like, ugh. That's all hysterical in the way that the crowd kind of like builds and they all want to touch the wall. Very funny. Episode 22 and Xander to Oz in Willow's Dreamstretch, actually. Sometimes I think about two women doing a spell and then I do a spell by myself. Classic Xander horny. And before we move on to the next category, I do just

want to take a moment. We've kind of hinted at it. I would like to give out the anti-horny award for a moment to Maggie Walsh, Professor Maggie Walsh, for watching Riley and Buffy fuck on the wall of surveillance monitors. What the hell was that? Oh, my God. Maggie, we have some notes. We have nothing about notes for you. But don't worry, she dies soon thereafter, unceremoniously.

So, you know, instant consequences. Okay. Best use of Jonathan. Oh, boy. It's a whole episode, obviously. I'm going to give it to, I'm just, shout out Danny Strong. Great. Just the best.

Yeah. Whatever the photo shoot day was for the swimsuit calendar. I just hope he had a great time doing it. And like all of the posters that he posed for. The one that is like has replaced the balls poster in Riley's room. It's just Jonathan. He's like dunk in a basketball. Yeah.

So funny. It's just all of the like simple, like him posing for the book cover. Like all of the supplemental like stuff that they had to do to paper this world in Jonathan's face. I just want to shout at Danny Strong for all of his posing. Great job. Incredible. I loved in that episode the blend of kind of inserting Jonathan into real world events and, you know, like the basketball poster or the like mentioning that he can coach the U.S. women's team to the World Cup title and things like he was in the Matrix, invented the

internet with like inserting him into, you know, Buffy's, the fictional universe, like he was the class protector and he ground the master's bones and all that. I will go with the scantily clad twins emerging on the balcony as Jonathan stares into the fire in his mants and they're in their lingerie and they're asking if he's coming to bed. And then at the end of the episode, he's like, the twins left. You sure did. And he's back to, like, combing his hair forward. And I'm like, Jonathan, you don't need magic to figure out how to, like, use some gel to sort of zh-it-up.

Just got to say. All right. Speaking of Jonathan, my most 2000 thing is not even, not before Jonathan starts singing, the swing music that is happening in the bronze. This very like jump-jive and whale era of swing music resurgence in America felt very, very 2000 to me. Great one. I'll go with a superstar pick as well here. I think just Jonathan wearing Neo's outfit from The Matrix and us learning that he had inserted himself to star in the Matrix is obviously that came out in 99. So that's a very early 2000 thing here.

I, on the pop culture front, I'll also toast the moment in where the wild things are in 18, when Zander's explaining to Anya why they need to try to get back into the house. And one of the things he says is people are going all Felicity with their hair because Julia's like cut all the hair off great stuff. And then in Goodbye Iowa, when they all have to kind of hide out in Zander's basement, even before Giles wakes up cranky and says, yeah, I can't imagine why I didn't sleep well in my beach ball. the second we see him, and I was like, oh, my God, that is the, of that moment in time, inflatable blow-up furniture that, like, all my friends had. We had it. The little Ottomans, the chairs, like, everybody had that.

That ported me back to this moment so, so, so powerfully, as did seeing Adam put a bunch of floppy disks into his chest port, of course. Oh, my God. The floppy disc drive in Adam is like, last one at least, I will give it to Spike saying it's must-see TV in reference to the surveillance video is very of the era. We miss you, NBC Must-C-TV.

Okay, Jiles' Most Dad moment. This is actually kind of tough for me. I don't know that I could locate like a tender Giles, this is my daughter, except for like some restless dream stuff, I guess. But like, what do you have here?

I didn't have one clear winner, but I had a handful of nominees. episode 13 when he agrees to buy Xander's boost bars because Ania's like, ew. And Zander says, Ania, we don't say, ooh in front of potential customers. And Anya says, just skip this part and tell him you want to buy me pretty things. He'll understand. And Giles says very well, made Bullwarnat.

Now, of course, this could have gone in the daddy category because it made me long for a band candy. Bandy. See, well, I was like, boy, the last time Giles was talked into buying a bar or something. Yeah, well. Stevenor's were involved, you know what I mean? Boy, were they? Boy, do I. What's this funny?

Incredible moment that we'll be coming up in the next category, Fear Not. Let's see, episode 14 when he, they decided they have to hide out. And Giles says, absolutely not of going to Xanders. I will not squat in that dank hole. And Spike says, what, it was good enough for me, but you're above it all? It just felt like a very dad thing. Like, absolutely not. I will not squat in this dang hole.

I will say, it is with deep and abiding affection of my heart for this group. It is weird. The Giles, like, sleeps in the basement with him. I'm like, can he not get a hotel? But we got treated to Giles in his pajamas in the beach ball, so I'm fine with it. I don't know what Giles' income is right now. Like, where, you know, how is he making his money? How is he renting that adorable flat, like loft apartment?

I don't know. It is a great. It is a great little house. It's a good question because, you know, he seemed eager to get that cash. back from Spike. So something to think about. I'm not what you think about. I liked in episode 18 when he lectured Riley for throwing a party at a time like this. That was real dadcore right there. But I like Riley pushing back on him, honestly. I was a good Riley moment.

Yeah. The guys need to blow some team. Yeah, the boys need a breather. Then he invites Giles. And Giles says, as much as I long for a good kegher, I have other plans. That's a really good pick. That's a really good pick. Just as much as I long for a good kegger, so dead. So dad. Though we're about to find out that he's just, it's coverer because he's about to go do something very daddy. So I think a couple things.

I have, it's a gourd, magic gourd, is one of mine. And then also in Who Are You when he's like providing a distraction for Buffy and Faith's body. so that she can get to the church. And he's like, oh, we've got families in them, mothers, and tiny, tiny babies. Tiny tiny babies. Very dorky dad stuff. Speaking of, in episode 22, in Giles' dream scape, Buffy is his kid. I know, in overalls.

Here we go. And he and Olivia are pushing a stroller through the carnival. So that's like real Giles' dad stuff, obviously. Also, he says, you mentioned Spike wearing Giles' suit on the swing set, but he says, I've got the stuff. Spikes like a son to me. So that whole thing is like Giles as dad, that's all great. And then I guess in episode 20 before that one, Giles is very drunk. This is in the Yoko factor when Spike has incepted everyone, he's, Giles is hammered. And he says to Buffy, you never train with me anymore. He's going to kick your ass. Sorry. Was that a bit honest? Terribly sorry, like the kind of harsh dad feedback. But then when Zander calls him crusty old Alfred and Giles is like, I'm no Alfred, sir. You forget. Alfred has a job. Alfred has a job.

So he's just told sorry for himself. How did you feel about drunk Giles? I was like fairly out on this because I was like, I understand the like comedy beat of it, but I was just like, and here's the thing about the yoke factor is like, there's not a lot I actually like about that episode, but and I understand why they pulled Spike into Adams plotting here at the end. But if I wish it had been like a couple episodes of Spike tears the group apart. not he has a handful of scenes to do this because it makes them all look dumb that Spike is able

to manipulate them. And like I understand that the like the ideas that the fissures were already there, all of these stresses and strains were already there. But I wouldn't have mind seeing like Spike pushing some of those pieces before this one. For Giles to go from like one conversation to Spike to like belligerently drunk in front of his underage like charges or whatever you want to call them. Like I was just like, I don't think Giles would do this. I don't know. Yeah, it's interesting because I think we have, you know, as you just said, the fissures are there.

Buffy will say later in the conversation with Willow, like, you know, the buildup was there. Yeah. We had all those sad Giles moments where he was like, you know, like. Playing his guitar. Well, those are, those are happy moments for me. Sad moments for him. Great choice of songs and lyrics in terms of him feeling like on the outs. But, you know, the cake at Buffy's party and getting hammered with Ethan.

and talking about how he has no place in the world. So it didn't feel like shocking to me. I guess the fact that he got so hammered that he was like stumbling his way upstairs and dropping his sweater onto Alexander's head. It felt like a little much. But I have always, you know, observed with interest that Giles is a man who is never far away from a whiskey tumbler.

You know, there's always a bottle of scotch or a bottle of brandy around. Who knows what, you know, perhaps that's why the jade mug is, you know, always on the ready. because you could drink anything out of that thing. Spike microwaving blood and bastardizing the jade mug by pouring the blood in. I love Spike with the jade mug. I think it's great.

All right, Jals's most daddy moment. You and I both have some visual aids here. I would love for you to go first, please. Oh, oh, when I had psychic power, I heard my mom think that you were like a stevedore drawing sex. Do you want me to continue? Actually, I beg you to stop. What's a stevedore?

He's going to load. Unload and load and unload and put that cargo onto that ship, baby. This was just absolutely wonderful. Buffy proving her identity to Giles as she is in Faith's body by telling him what she heard. What she heard her mom thinking about what a workman like machine, an unrelenting powerhouse the Giles was, while fucking her. Would you rather fuck

a stevedore-esque person on the head on the hood of a cop car or a Viking in the sack? Well, I mean, I'm not saying Xander versus Giles. Yeah,

it's not Zander versus Giles. Just the description. Don't worry. I know the answer to that one. I'd rather fuck Giles. Don't worry, I know. We all know. But just in general,

all things being equal. cool. Would you rather a stevedore or Viking? So as I've mentioned before, this just felt like further confirmation. I am pretty certain that part of the Giles experience is a lot of variance encounter to encounter. So you think Giles could also be a Viking? I have no doubt that Giles could also be a Viking. I think he could be a tender poet. I think it could be all of it. So that was like, you know, band candy Giles is a stevedore. But yeah, acoustic guitar Giles. Exactly.

You think he would give the old tender Riley, I don't want to play games sort of moment. I bet you Giles isn't to playing games every now and then. I bet he is. All right, I also have a visual aid for this category. It is not a clip, but Carlos, will you please show us this? Earlier, I know. He's so fucking hot.

It's insane. This is just a slutty little earring. I don't know where. It should be said. And what's so funny is, like, When this show, I don't know if you had this experience, when this shows up, even though I've seen these episodes a million time, when this earring shows up in the quad and he wears it for the rest of the episode, right? I'm like, did I miss when Giles started wearing an earring? And then I went back and watched the hangover rope sequence that like comes before it.

And he does not have the earring on there. So I was like, this quad moment is the first time we see this slutty little earring on Giles. Is he not wearing the earring at the espresso pump in episode 18? at the gig? Oh, do you feel like it's his gig earring? I think it's his gig earring. His gig earring. I think it's his like, I'm jamming out.

It's his Duke Silver sort of persona. I'm plucking those strings. It's just very powerful and very memorable. And like the earring hole in Anthony Stewart. Yeah, it's been there. Yeah. It's so visible. So it's fun to see him get to wear the earring.

It's like, it's like Ripper days sort of, you know. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. It's, uh, you know. As Olivia said. Yeah. Is this where you want to talk about Giles and his singing career inside of the season?

Yes. Yes. This is my pick for most daddy was the Stevedore moment because that's just historic. But my runner-up is all three musical moments. So we get episode 18, Giles has been kind of like coy about this. Oh, adults at the espresso pump. And they have to go find him. They need his help.

And he is singing behind blue eyes by The Who. And he is... Definitely has the earring. Yes, yes, yes. The earrings in. He looks amazing. Sway a jacket. To be the bad man.

To be the sad man behind the blue eyes. Iconic choice of song here. And Anya and Willow and Tara are just jaws on the floor bowled over by his just sexual charisma. And Xander's like, what the hell is happening here? And Willow's like, guess what I always knew. Now I remembered why I used to have such a crush on him. This is just an incredible sequence in everything.

respect. He's an amazing musician, so this was just so hot. I don't, I didn't, I didn't research this, but my theory is the writers knew they weren't really using Giles the way that, like, Anthony Surhead was, like, used to being used. And, like, he is, he is, he's a musician. He, I don't know if you, do you know that he did, like, a VH1 taped production of the Rocky Horror Picture Show? You've seen it. Yes, because I've, I've Googled him fairly extensively. Okay. So. This came to me via a Google image search initially.

So I feel like they were just like throwing him a bone of like, we know we haven't using you. So we're going to let you sing not once, not twice, but thrice inside of this season. And he delivers. I hope that it continues. I've tried to get you to reveal to me how many more musical numbers are coming in the future. I found all of this just incredibly powerful and rewarding. He sings again in episode 20, The Yoko Factor.

He's singing at home this time. He's at his house. He thinks alone. He's singing free. Free bird. Freibird. If I leave here tomorrow, would you still remember me? And then Spike walks in.

Is there a, and he does this like, ah, is there a greater cry for help than a man alone in his house playing Freebird on the acoustic guitar? I don't know. As always, I'd like to offer my services. I'm here to comfort Ruper Giles, whatever he needs. And then he uses the music as like exposition in this exposition song stretch in The Dreamscape in Episode 22 and Restless. It seems familiar somehow. He gets up on the stage. But this is where it was a real like coin flip between the stevedore quote and this for me for the pick here.

One of the things that he sings is, and try not to bleed on my couch, I just had it steam cleaned. And you think that's because of an Olivia visit? Yes. Not because. I think that is because he and Olivia have been fucking up a storm on every surface of his home, including the couch. And what an honor to give Giles a reason. to need to steam clean his couch. I would love

to give Giles a reason to steam clean his couch. I mean, I think we all know that, but not because Spike got a little sloppy and sloshy with a mug of popping hot blood, perhaps a little bit of eggs in it. I choose to believe it's fun bodily fluids,

not blood. Exactly. Okay, great. Yes. That's my hope. Anything else you would like to add in this your most dynamic category? I did, you know,

we mentioned when he got hammered in the hangover in primeval, he opens the door in a bathrobe, you know, the kind of like compress on his neck. He looked hot. Um, pardon the robe. And you're like, no need to say pardon the robe. Yeah. We're good. Uh, and, you know, I sent you a picture of him biting into a red apple in restless. I know, his team, but you know what's disturbing? It's a red delicious. If it's a red apple, it's a reddelless. It's really tough. Well, everything's a little off in the dreamscape. So I'm going to, I'm going to hope that's why. The dreamscape, which is trying so hard to be. lynchy.

That is one of the Peaksier, the Twin Peaksier sort of images is like him with the Apple, the canted camera, the red light, the checkerboard floor behind him. That's very like Black Lodge sort of stuff in there. All right, when Willow Cries, we cry.

What do you have here? I hate to repeat myself, but it's just the second saying goodbye to Oz moment for me. This is my my answer last time was saying goodbye to Oz the first time. This is a less like, this is a more I'm happy, Willow. This is a more like I'm centered. I'm, you know, I don't know.

I've seen some critiques of this of like she doesn't really choose Tara here. He, because he's the one who's like, I can't say I have to go. But I don't know. I think I, you know, and he's like, you know, she's like, it's my fault. I made you mad. He's like, oh yeah, and you'll never do that again sort of thing. But like, but I feel like if, you know, it's not just that he gets mad. about Tara. It's like she's moved on and and formed a new life without him. And, uh, and they

have this like very beautiful like maybe not right now sort of a conversation. But, um, but she's still he's, he's, you know, he's crying. She's crying. They're still crying. It's not the same like sobbing as it was before because it's, but it's just like a very sad goodbye. And then like, I could be, I don't think I'm wrong. Seth Green shows up in the finale here and in the dream. And then, And then that's, I think that's it for Seth Green on the show, which is just like, devastating for us fans, honestly. But yeah, that's my pick. How about you?

Yeah, that was my, I had kind of like a two-way tie here, both from New Moon Rising from episode 19. And that was one of them. I found that scene in the van really sad and really tender and touching. And, you know, I think when Willow says, like, I feel like some part of me will always be waiting for you. Like, if I'm old and blue-haired and I turn the corner in Istanbul. and there you are,

I won't be surprised because you're with me, you know. It's like, you know, there's a connection there between them and a meaningful experience between them that will continue to matter to both of them, even though they're not together. And then, yeah, I think the scene I was mentioning earlier, Willow trying to navigate her feelings

for Tara and for Oz, her own identity, her sexuality. And that moment when Tara says, like, I know what Oz means to, and Willis says, how can you when I'm not even sure? Willow, the way she's saying, like, I don't know what to do. I want to know, but I don't.

And like, she feels this pull to Tara, and by the end of the episode, she shows up at Tara's and Tara. It's like, I understand. You know, you have to be with the person you love and Willis says, I am. You know, that's you. Like, you mean me? Okay, yes. and they're together and they get to celebrate being together.

But the fact that Willow was trying to just like understand her own desire, I found just really, really poignant. Love Willow. She's great. You know who I love Spike. Spike. Same. So this category is the triple header of Spike's hottest moment.

Funniest Moment, Most Spike Moment. I have a clip here, and it is, once again, I have chosen a most spike moment as my clip. Nasty sort of fellow. Lucky for you blighters out here, eh? Yes. Ah, thank you. Although your hero is most likely muted

by the fact that you were helping Adam to start a war that would kill us all. He probably just saved us so he wouldn't stake you right here. Well, yeah. Did it work? Well, then everything's alright And we all got to be not staked through the hard Good work team

Like incredible And then he later goes like He says by gum right When they're like going out to like fight Yeah so Spike's showing up to be heroic For an incredibly self-serving reason Yeah That's my spike

That's my guy That is 100% my guy Where he just shows up Saves everyone But not for the right reason And that's him through and through So you know even as we are learning and growing and changing as a as a as a person it is it is always this like

with a side of like but it's because it's what I need in this moment yeah so incredible stretch of of spike just start to finish across this season I had like a I mean every spike moment is a hot moment I had a lot of most spike contenders and funniest spike contenders in this stretch um also in because that that was episode 21 so also in that I like when spikes says when he's talking to Adam and he's like boasting that he's done it he's split the scoobies yeah and then the discs come up right and it's like damn right i did you should have seen them they won't be talking to each other for a long time hang on i think i might have detected a small flaw it's like incredible that's just classic spike and like hottest is it's just is eternal

for spike as far as i'm concerned but i will say in restless in the black and white when he's like posing for the cameras and he's doing all these like classic vamp poses. Yeah, it's really good. He's like, ah, I'm like, oh, it's really good. I also thought it was crazy hot when, like, the look on his face when he caught Giles singing in episode 20, just that, like, kind of just the expression on his face and the way he's like, you know, for someone who's got watcher on his resume, you might want to keep an eye to the front door every now and then he just looked so kind of like knowing in that moment.

it was great. I also love for funniest. Or are we still on hottest? Keep going. No, it's all in the mix. Like, this is just Spike. The Spike brew is just hot as funniest most Spike. Like, that's just this whole thing.

I will say I love, just as like a character moment in terms of like people figuring out Willow and Tara. I love that like Faith and Spike are the two people who just like pick up on it right away without having to be told explicitly. Yeah. Just because of how they are with each other, like the hair. Yeah. Yeah, but they're just like, they've just lived in the world a bit differently than the sheltered Scoopies. And so they're like, oh, that's a gay couple. I know what that looks like.

Right. I just love that for Spike. I quite enjoyed when in episode 13, this was all hysterical when Giles pays him a visit in his crypt in order to give him the agreed-upon cash. Spike's like, wipe your feet when you enter a person's home. Tiles and says, sorry, careless of me tracking mud all over your mud. incredible. I just think that like, here's the thing

about James Marsters among everything is like he has charisma he has chemistry with everyone. Yes. And also he can say the most like

onerous like twisty, weidenism like garbled jargon shit that they write for him. You know, like when they're just trying to get like real cutesy with the,

with the language, he can pull it off, honestly. And you know, in a way that like all of them can, but like, they give him some really like

clunker lines And he's just like, guess what? I pulled it off. I did it. He did. I can do that. Basically every time. Yeah.

Literally every time. Actually, every time. Yeah. I enjoy the slayerettes. Yes. That'll come back. This is so great. So he says it in episode 13 here.

This bit of business wraps up any I've got with you and your slayerettes. And then he says, I don't want you crawling back here and knocking up my door pleading for help. The second teen witch's magic goes all wonkyer little zander cuts a new tooth. That's hysterical. And then later in that episode, when he has to give Giles back the cash, he's like, that's all that's left, spent the rest on blood and smokes. Classic Spike, that was incredible. I really enjoyed when he said to Buffy, got a hand it to you, this is in episode 14, got to hand it to you, Goldie locks. You do have bleeding, tragic taste in men.

And then he says, you think Riley was out knitting booties for your future offspring when Maggie was stringing you up, knitting booty? is just so good. I think also the Tony Robbins joke when he's talking to Adam. He's like, you're like Tony Robbins except like big and he's like actually you're just like Tony Robbins

then. That was great. I loved when he went to Willys for a drink in episode 14. Double shot of O'Neg, Keep. Make it the good stuff. Don't want no freaking orangutan tank. The way he said keep instead of Barkkeep

was just so funny. I love that he called Adam, because there's this actually very rich aspect of the Spike Adam storyline, which is that Spike keeps saying to Adam, don't underestimate Buffy, right?

Like he's like, you're not taking this seriously enough. Like, she is going to fuck you up. She has a way of, you know, just getting rid of threats in this town. Yeah, and I like... He admires her. He sure does. You know, there's respect there undeniably. And I loved when he said to Adam,

this was in episode 20, you're not getting it, Mr. Bits. Mr. Bitz was great. The nicknames that he dishes out are just so amusing and great. When Spike arrived to find that Riley was kind of in his new state that they had moved to this new phase. And he says, so it's chips all around, is it? Yeah, yeah. Someone must have brought the party back.

That's fantastic. That's really good. Do you think that Sawyer's way with a nickname comes from Spike? It feels like the connection. of tissue there is pretty apparent. I was just thinking this morning, I was just like the way in which, and I've talked about this before, obviously, but like this archetype of

a character that I find so fascinating. But I'm just like, I'm just thinking of like gooey-brained me, like young teenage me, watching the show and just like having this like kind of character, this spike archetype, which is again echoed across all these other things, just imprinted on me

like freaking twilight and a werewolf and an infant baby. I was just sort of like, I'm like, I didn't have a choice. I was so unformed. And then I saw what James Marsters, plus the Buffy writing team, could do with a character like this. And then it was over for me. I am forever susceptible to that because I was just like, I was so new to storytelling.

And I was like, I'd never say anything like it. It was just, it's dazzling. You have a type. I do. I do have a type. But I'm just saying like to be able to like see, to know its origin so clearly, you know, Yeah, it is what it is. It's powerful.

It's powerful. A few more of most Spike moments that stood out, episode 14. Buffy, because Riley's like, that's hostile 17. And Buffy says, don't worry, I can't bite anymore. And Spike says, hey, what am I? A bleeding broken record. I'm bad. I just, I can't bite anymore.

Thanks to you wankers. I loved all these moments throughout because he's, this was so fun to see him in and out of the Scoobies and like the pull of his own impulse and instinct in both directions, like the instinct to hate these people, but also the kind of just like actual pleasure of interacting with them and the moments where their impulse is like a line. Episode 15, when Xander and Giles ask him for help with faith and they describe faith to him.

And then he's like, tell you what I'll do with them. Head out, find this girl, tell her exactly where all of you are, and then watch as she kills you. And they're like, why? It's like, can any of you? your damned little Scooby Club, at least try to remember that I hate you all, which was a great just way to kind of capture the surprise entanglement between Spike and the Scoobies across the season.

That was really, really lovely. I liked that quite a bit. I enjoyed as kind of a continuation of the like Willow Spike, you know, ED comp scene when he's with Anya and he's trying to rob her at first. And she's like, you're not even bumpy anymore. It's like, almost just a minute ago. Hang on. You're not even bumpy anymore.

It's really good. Oh, my God. Incredible. The best. All right. From one incredibly sexy leather clad character to another, this category is simply called Fuck.

Yeah, Faith Lahane. Here we go. What do you got? So this is where I have the clip that you already picks. Let's watch it again. Let's watch it again. Even you,

I could ride you at a gallop until your legs buckled and your eyes rolled up. I've got muscles you never even dreamed of. I could squeeze you until you popped like warm champagne and you beg me to hurt you just a little bit more. And you know why I don't? Because it's wrong. Unbelievable. This is a really, I almost text, like, you know, we decided we're going to add a faith category obviously to this section. And I almost text to you clarification, but I decided not to because I don't know that totally matters, but is like, is this an Eliza Dushku moment? Or is this

the faith the character moment. And, like, obviously, we'll probably have a mix of both. Yes. But I want to honor Eliza's performances, Buffy, because she has less of an opportunity to do so. Mm-hmm. But in that stevedore exchange with Giles,

when she's like, stop inching. You were inching. It's a very Sarah Michelle Geller, like, she really nailed the intonation of Buffy. That was very good. I love, too, just before the body swap in episode 15, when she has taken Joyce captive and says, how do I look?

Joyce says psychotic. And Faith says, hmm, I was shooting for soul tree. But okay, this is a great, classic little Faith moment there. The one that we both clipped from episode 16 is just so like electric and incredible. And I think too, because we had it builds off that mirror sequence. It's wrong. Yeah, you can't do that. It's wrong.

You can't do that. because it's naughty because it's wrong. You can't do that. It's wrong. Faith figuring out how she's going to impersonate Buffy by saying it's wrong and then getting to invoke it in that way. It was just incredible. But then the rule of three, like using it for real in the church at the end and it, like, it hits, you know?

It really does. It really does. And it's so, like, rewarding to see her leave the airport and choose to go help. I mean, it feels like so massive. on a somber note as well, I, again, as we said already, Faith using Buffy's body to sleep with Riley is not okay. That is really, really fucked up. I thought it was really striking at the end of that scene,

the look on Faith's face because she had spent all this time kind of like ridiculing Buffy for the boyfriends. And she's like, oh, this is real connection. You know, and, like, feeling the absence of that. It was really, really sad. It really hit me. When he says, when he says, I love you to her in that moment, and she's like, get off me.

And she, like, can't get him off of her, even though she is the Slayer. And she has Slayer strength is, you know, yeah, that's a devastating. I mean, like, obviously, what Faith does there is, you know, sexual assault of both Buffy's body and Riley's body. this is a horrible scene.

And also, it's devastating for her emotionally and for us to watch her experiencing that at the same time. In the Quad Fight, I just think her intro, the You're Not Me turnaround from the message board is like one of the all-time intro into a scene moments that a character has. Even when you know it's coming, even when you know it's her and you can see the back of her,

it's still like the characters don't know, so it's still like an incredibly cool moment. Also, Willow uses the phrase, and I think about it all the time, which is the cleavagey slip bomb phrase. Yeah. That's just an iconic buffyism to me. Five what by five what is also incredibly important. Yeah. Faith, we love you.

Was thrilled to have her back. College is hell metaphor. Like you said, the back half of the season kind of forgets that college exists. Yeah. So I'm going to give it to experimenting with magic slash experimenting with your sexuality. That's my best stab here. What do you have? That's a good one.

I think, yeah, like in terms of we are actually in a college setting, I guess the frat house spouting orgasm walls and Xander's like, a ghost, what's the deal? Is every frat on this campus haunted? And if so, why do people keep going to these parties? Really funny. I guess, like, across multiple episodes, this idea of, like, your high school love interest.

your current love interest. Yeah. You have Oz and Tara, you have Angel and Riley. So that kind of like meeting of spheres and time periods of your life feels very college-y. Though, of course, that can be true at any point in your life. So, yeah, I hope there's more college in season five because I really likes that aspect of the beginning of season four. But we'll see.

I have really bad news for you. Okay. Speaking of your high school boyfriend meets your college boyfriend. I've decided to give my funniest moment to a very unexpected person. I'm not leaving this room. I mean it. Incredible. Welcome to my funniest moment category.

I think Angel smirk to Riley as he follows Buffy out of the room is the, like, the funniest thing I've ever seen. I think it's so funny. And I just think it's like, you know, Angel as a source of humor, not always. So this is part of like what. more and more what David Borianas gets to do on his own show you know what I mean?

Like we celebrated the moment that he was quite funny on Buffy, but it wasn't a laugh a minute moment with David Boreana's on Buffy. And then of course, it's like I said, like we were talking about

with the mayor, like when Angel shows up, you're like, God, Riley, like how did I ever think Angel was boring? When like,

when you compare to Riley, I'm like, this is a live wire we got here. So, yeah, that silent walk by smirk is just absolutely.

Incredible. top tier for me. Amazing pick. I also quite enjoyed Angel saying, you sleep with this guy? It was like real audience avatar moment there. Loved it. Great pick.

Great pick. This is where I would like to celebrate shrimp. And Anya once again. Back to Superstar, Superstar, really carrying the categories here. So you have the first moment in Zander's basement that we already talked about when Anya's, Buffy's basically like, how do alternate realities work?

How does wish magic work? And Yanya chooses to explain this by using shrimp. You know, now if we were doing this now, maybe we'd use like the hot dog fingers. From everything everywhere at once. So she says, you could have like a world without shrimp or with, you know, nothing but shrimp. You could even make little like freaky world

where Jonathan's like some kind of not perfect mouth breather if that's what's blowing up your skirt these days. Just don't ask me to live there. And then later, they're at Giles as they're back with the Scoobies. And Buffy is asking, Buffy has grown really suspicious about Jonathan. And she's asking Anya to explain this alternate reality possibility to the whole group. And Ania uses the shrimp again. Buffy cuts her off.

Enough with the shrimp. And then she says it's like they're all his, Jonathan's pawns. And this specifically is my pick. Anya replies by saying, Or prawns, and Buffy just loses it. Stop with the shrimp. It just killed me. I thought this is so funny.

Or prawns. It's so funny. It's really good. It's incredible. We're prawns. Made me laugh so hard. I also, a runner, another an aña is just, I can't stop toasting Anya. An assassin.

Oh my God. On the Watchers Council front when and Who Are You, Giles is like, no, this is different. You know, special ops units, smuggling, interrogation. wet works. Will says, what's wet works? Zander says scuba type stuff. And Anya says, I thought it was murder. Sandra's like, there could be murder underwater. I would like to now perform a piece of dramatic perfection.

And this is from Restless. But what else could I expect from a bunch of low rent, no account, hoodlums like you. Hoodlums, yes. I mean you and your friends, your whole sex. Throw them in the sea for all I care. Throw them in and wait for the bubbles. Men with your groping and spitting all groin. No brain.

Three billion of you passing around the same worn-out urge. Men with your sales. This is men with your sales. The restless version of death of a salesman. Men with your sales. Sarah, this is Sarah. I think Sarah's funniest season. Because I do think actually.

She's unbelievable. I do think actually the topic. is Sarah as faith in the mirror exploring her face and it's wrong and all of that sort of stuff. One beat I will give

this is like pro-ante-Sara at the end of this year's girl I think it's a bit of unintentional comedy when there's the reveal of it's actually

faith in Buffy's body when she's like five by five and then she has to give like a psycho look to the camera. Yeah. There is trying really hard to be like crazy gleam in the eye.

And I was like, okay, that's kind of funny. It's great stuff. What else do you have? We talked about the halter top moment already, but, you know, oh, you mean the camera and stuff, I thought about it, but on me, it's going to look all private Benjamin. Don't worry, I've patrolled in this halter many times. I've patrolled in this halter many times.

It's just, well, not necessarily, like, strictly adhering to canon because I feel like Buffy has a new outfit in every scene. I just thought that was absolutely fantastic. Let's see. I think we've covered a lot of the other candidates in other categories. Did you have other ones that we haven't hit yet? I would say there is a hyena callback, which I'm always excited to see. And then there's a moment where Willow asks Xander to open some milk, and he says, no, I'll tear it and it gets all sloshy.

And that's just like such a like visceral lived. experienced joke that I just really it really gets me great one but or prawns is honestly hard to beat it's very very good hysterical

with your sales all right most emotional moment you have a clip here for our last category I do so I guess I'm starting to understand why there's no

ancient prophecy about a chosen one and her friends if I need help I'll go to someone I can count on I wish he means Riley and he's not there, just saying. Tough. Tough all around. Man, so that's episode 20.

That's the Yoko Factor. This is, as we've talked about a few times already today, I mean, I found this very painful. It is the product of spikes machinations and spikes manipulations, but like he worked with what was there. You know, he poked and prodded at their actual insecurities and their fears and the ruptures inside of the group dynamic, and it worked quickly. To your point, quickly, but it worked. The fact that they're able to pull themselves out of that and pass that friendship test, this is something we talk about a lot and have talked about in other pods before,

like when you have this harrowing experience and you say painful things to people you love, if you can make it out, like on the other side of that, often you're in a better, stronger place. But that doesn't mean you can actually unhear or unsay the things that transparently. and they say some painful stuff to each other in this sequence. They really, really do. And like, I think that, you know, there's that stretch where Spike is kind of explaining the Yoko factor to Adam. You know, don't tell me you've never heard of the Beatles. The point is they were once a real powerful group. It's not a stretch to say they ruled the world when they broke up, everyone blamed Yoko, but the fact is the group split itself apart. She just happened to be there. You know how it is with

kids. They go off to college. They grow apart way of the world. And like, that's true. You know, I think part of, I was thinking back to like what in last week's pod when I was sort of like talking about why I love college stories. I was thinking about that more and like I love high school stories. I love middle school stories. I love coming of age stories in general. But for me, like college is where I made my friends who are like my best friends to this day. And like a lot of the experiences that feel most deeply connected to like what I love and who I am and what I do were present in high school.

But like really I think like kind of coalesced in college. but if I had gone to school with my best friends from high school, it would have been different. That wasn't what happened. I went to school on my own. None of them were with me. Same, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was thinking about what this would have been.

And I honestly, like, it was part of why I really didn't want to go to Maryland, even though, like, my mom had gone there, or my dad had gone there, or my stepdad had gone there, and I got in, and it's a great school. And I grew up a Maryland fan. Like, so many kids from my high school were going there, and I was just like, I do. Yeah. something new and like we're going to change and if we change but that change moves us apart from each other. We ended up like growing apart. I'm still friends with a good friends with a couple people from high school, but a lot of the people who are really dear to me in high school, I'm not in touch with at all.

Do you want to name them and tell me how beautiful and perfect they are? I have sent you some pictures of Lena. She is just a gorgeous, gorgeous woman. When I send you pictures of her, you're going to be like, I see why he just started talking about how stunning she is. She's gorgeous. But yeah. So, like, you know, the conversation with Willow and Tara about the housing or Willow's

moments of, like, watching Buffy gravitate toward the initiative of Rylean away from her, or Zander navigating, like, college life and how it's a thing for them that it's not, it's not for him. And just like, I don't know, when Buffy said when they're repelling and their, Buffy and Willow are making up and reconciling and then Zandra will join the group hug, you know, I thought it was like really cool that they acknowledged this. Like, I think the trouble was stirruppable. I think we've all sort of drifted apart this year, don't you?

And Willis said maybe a little. But, you know, first year of college, it's hard to keep the old high school gang together, but I want it together, Will. I miss you. So I just, like, really loved that. And, like, it was hard and intense and sad. And I think that exploring this feels necessary and right. Like, it wouldn't feel like this story in this phase of their lives have been properly explored

if they never had a moment where when all these new experiences and people are entering their lives, they didn't move away from each other a little bit. So, like, my expectation, frankly, is that this one. won't be the last time that something like this happens. Maybe not in this exact form. But, you know, that's part of growing up. Sad. I'm going to, my, perfect pick.

I'm going to circle back to this Faith in the Mayor thing, which I said was my most emotional moment, oddly. I was reading Miles McNutt, who's a great scholar of television, was doing a Buffy, watched the first time he had never seen it. And so I was like reading, in preparing myself to talk to you about it, I've been reading some of his sort of journeys through it for the first time, like watching it for the first time in 2020.

Like, what is it like to watch Bucket in the first time this many years after it was like a thing? And this is a quote from his recap of this year's girl. He wrote, it says a lot that the show managed to make me feel bad for a murderer getting emotional over the death of an evil maniac who turned himself into an enormous demon and threatened to destroy the entire town.

But I think this year's girl achieves just that which keeps it from being seeming too inconsequential. So, I mean, he didn't really like the episode. I disagree. But, like, that moment. Also, like, I love that moment when Zander's like, anyone missed the mayor? Just like, want to be a snake. That's great.

But, like, yeah, I just, I think that that moment is so unexpected because, like, everyone, you know, yes, the show is trying to make you feel for faith. Everyone around her is calling her a psycho and crazy and this cleavagely slept bomb and all these other things. But, like, you know, the show is asking you to be with her as she's regarding the main antagonist of season 3 and feeling devastated by the loss of him. It's a very good moment, very good TV moment. So, yeah. I loved it. Empathy in surprising places is really one of the hallmarks of this experience so far. Yeah. Very good. Fantastic. All right. So you are excited for season 5 because you know that. Riley is not making it through the whole season, though longer than you had hoped.

10 out of 22 is a lot of episodes. I really don't think, I really feel like you'll not feel his presence as much as you're worried, you will. And then anything else you're excited about for season five. I mean, Spike still has the chip in his head, so that's thrilling, you know, to see how long that remains the circumstance. and then presumably at some point it will cease being his reality, but has the kind of routine of interacting in this different way with these people, like stuck. I'm looking forward to that.

So I think the spike dynamic with Buffy and the Scoobies, I'm curious to see what Giles, like, does with his time. Yeah? And I support it if it's just having sex on his couch, looking hot playing the guitar. Yeah, that's fine and drinking some whiskey. Yeah, I'm curious and eager to see how college is used as a setting, if at all. I'm excited for more with Tara and Willow. I guess I'm curious to see who Buffy's next love interest is,

knowing that Riley is not going to be around for long, and that it seems like there are fewer angel crossover moments coming, like how quickly is another person in the mix there? Who's the next antagonist? What role does Dawn play and how quickly? And I think something that I'm very interested in is how often Buffy is interacting with Joyce. That's on my mind. Yeah.

So, yeah, quite a bit. And, you know, just basically here for every moment that we can possibly be treated to on the Anya front. I hope that it's like every 2.5 scenes we get on you. Welcome to the main cast of McCaffield. It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous that she's not in the opening credits of season four. She's basically a series regular in season four, but, you know, contractually not, but that changes in season five. Okay.

I'm really excited for you to watch season five. I will just, and I've already probably said too much more than I probably should have, but I will just say the season five premiere is a real, like. That's the Dracula one, right? Okay, okay, yes. Because it brought up the thumbnail for it when I finished season four. So I would just say When I watched that, I was like, what's happening on the show now?

And then the rest is much more normal. But the season 5 premiere is the Dracula episode, which is a very strange episode of Buffy. But then we go from there. Great. You know, I kind of, I like a weird episode of Buffy. I like a goofy. You know, I like, I'm here for every now and then

a little go fish or a little beer bad. Thank you. to Carlos Chiraboga. Yeah. Jonathan Frias here with us today. Jonathan Frias, also on my thank you list. Arjuna Rangipal, always, for everything, always. Jomi and Dineran and Carlos on the social, they're tag teaming that they're doing an incredible job.

And we will be back with more things next week that we definitely have planned. Don't worry about it. And Mallory is going to start season five, Buffy. I can't wait. See you soon. Bye. You can't reason with us.

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