House of R - 'Daredevil: Born Again' Episodes 4-7 Superlatives

Episode Date: April 4, 2025

In the merry month of April, Mal and Jo gather to catch up on 'Daredevil: Born Again' by offering some midseason superlatives, including sexiest sequence, favorite scene, and so much more! Hosts: Mallory Rubin and Joanna Robinson Producer: Steve Ahlman Video Supervision: John Richter Social: Jomi Adeniran Addition Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Presenting the Friars turkey breast only from Borishead. The backyard tradition now available behind the counter. Visit your local deli today. Discover the craftmanship behind every bite. Borershead committed to craft since 1905. Greetings. Thanks. And welcome to House of Art, a ringerverse podcast on the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Mallory Rubin. And joining me today, now that she's finished reminding me that we can't hide from our true selves, it's my favorite muse, Joanna Robinson.

What a mixed compliment that is today. Thank you so much, Valerie Rubin. Mallory is just the queen of content. Can you imagine she is here once again struggling through her illness to bring us fresh, Daredevil takes, and we love that. Thank you, Valerie, for showing up. You're amazing. I wouldn't miss it. I feel fairly despondent about the precious in-person time that I've missed with you over the last couple weeks.

So hopefully we can get one or two more in before you depart. Great to be here. Back on the old Zoom. It's nice to see you in the studio with our beautiful Richter special logo behind you. I miss it. Yeah. Conversely, I miss you being here, but it's also always nice to look at Grogu and Molnir and the rest that sit behind you on your Zoom setup. There they are.

I thought I had a couple more weeks, you know, to just really rework my home setup for the House of our Ringervverse video era. But no, my immune system had other ideas, folks. Okay. We're here to talk about Daredevil. We're here to do a little Daredevil catch up because before I was sick, I was traveling. So it's been a minute since we have talked about Daredevil Born Again. Together, we will, in short order, explain the approach for today's catch-up pod. But before we just repeat, yes, book, yes, to each other for, you know, somewhere north of an hour.

Some quick programming reminders. House Var. We're ships in the night right now. We're briefly back together. Then Joe is hitting the road. So next week, Joe will not be here. She will be in our hearts. She will be in our souls.

But she will not literally be on the podcast. I will have a first-time house of our guest from the Ringer family joining me for Yellow Jackets, episode 9 on Monday. Jody Walker. Jody, the legend. Oh, my God. I can't wait to hear Jody's takes on Yellow Jackets. That's... I'm actually same.

I bet they're spicy. Yeah. I bet there's spicy as a well-seasoned piece of wilderness meat. I'm so eager to see what Jody thinks about the new season. A great get for that pod. And then at the end of the week, Benjamin Lindbergh, Avia, and him, Lads. And Daniel Chin will be joining me to talk about Daredevil episode 8, the penultimate episode of the season, and Black Mirror season. We're going to check in on both because we got a new season of Black Mirror, and that's always an exciting time here in the nerdverse.

Are those updates subject to change, either in terms of the topics or the guest co-hosts, of course. Should I be saying those things on this podcast and committing them to the public record? Probably not. But I've done it anyway. And yet, here we are. Here we are. Over on the Ringerverse, meanwhile. Already waiting for you right now, the Midnight Boys have their Daredevil, episode seven.

Insider reaction up for you. Some Spider-Man 4 nerd news up for you. A great episode of Midnight Boys. Great stuff. Always. There's also a button match waiting for you. A new one today. Switch two. A lot of talk about Switch 2 in the Ringer video game. Slack. Check that out. And then next week, top of the week, Junior Mintz, get hyped. Mint Edition. As another episode of Here Comes the Pitch on, because it is last of us season, game adaptations. Can't wait for that one. Nice. Nice. It's going to be a fun pod. Joanna, how can everybody follow along?

I'm so thrilled you asked because you can not only listen to those, you can also watch those podcasts, right? On YouTube, on the Ringarverse channel, on Spotify, right there in the app. You just fire up the podcast. Oops. There's our faces. Our beautiful, somewhat feverish faces are here for your viewing enjoyment. So I would just suggest you subscribe to the pod to Ring Reverse to House of R. Why not do that simplest?

Follow us on social. any social media platform of your choice. Maybe whatever Daniel Blake would choose. I think maybe that's the right path forward. Does that seem right to you, Mallory Rubin? Okay. I mean, it seems right to me. Okay, cool.

The world's leading Daniel Blake enthusiast. And as ever, his talk is on the rise this season, though. I'm joining you. He's going to come up multiple times today. Great. The inbox is always up. Hobbits and Dragons at gmail.com. you can send us.

We're getting a lot of Yellow Jack's Jackets' thoughts from people. Daredevil thoughts pretty thin on the ground right now from folks. We're starting to get Last of Us takes already. So you send us to your Last of Us anticipation. Can I just say really quickly sort of our approach to Last of Us this season?

Really just want to breeze through it. Previously on Yellow Jackets, previously on our coverage of Last of Us, which was over on the Prestige TV pod, Mallory and I were trying to pace the game with the show. So Mallory was playing and I was watching

sort of like a cinematic playthrough and we were trying to do like a no spoilers watch the subject matter and then watch the episode and talk about it that way. We were told directly by the creators

that that's not gonna fly this season on The Last of Us. Craig and Neil were like, no, don't do that. So we, Mal is currently playing through the game. I have started my cinematic watch through so we are gonna be,

we are gonna have like a basically a spoiler section, sort of similar to what we do with House of the Dragon, a book reader, gameplay or section at the end of the pause. So there would still be like our, you know, season one, no spoilers for what's to come,

breakdown, but at the end we'll be like, oh my God, can you believe that they did this? And it's going to come back later when they do that. And even in that section, we'll have no idea what's coming on the show. Correct. I obviously tend to make quite a few ample adaptive changes.

So even with the context of the game And boy, what a journey it's been so far. We will have a lot of undiscovered country ahead of us. I already got my, like, newest favorite video of Mallory Rubin plays video games filmed by Adam. I have so many more to send you guys. He's basically functioning as a documentarian is like. Wonderful. He's like David Attenborough.

He's like, Crikey. In the Underbush, we see. Sorry I said Cricky. That's Crocodile Hunter. But anyway, in the underbrush is Mallory Rubin playing a video game. It's really funny. Basically. I can't wait.

I can't wait to be back in the mushroom apocalypse with you. I'm thrilled. I'm so excited for Last of Us coverage with you. We got to go to the premiere together. It was a blast. Yeah. Is that where I got sick? Yeah.

Probably not. It was probably in Baltimore. You probably ate a mushroom that just has infected you. So, you know. It's possible. There weren't any mushrooms. There were not any mushrooms. Yeah.

Poping out of my brain yet. And so far, just the yearning tangles in my heart. No actual. yearning tendrils emerging from, you know, any orifice. So that's good news. That's encouraging. And I love that for you. Fingers crossed, it stays that way.

Spoiler warning. We're talking about four episodes of Daredevil today. We are catching up on lightly and in a kind of scattered what's in our hearts fashion, catching up on Daredevil Born Again episodes four, five, six, and three. seven because we have not had the chance to talk about any of them together yet. And we are doing an old favorite of ours when we have sometimes more than one episode to catch up on superlatives. So we've got seven categories today because we are seven episodes into this season of television. I don't know, as usual, what Joanna has selected under each category. And she does not know what I have

selected, though she probably does. We have almost all of them. We have our suspicions. My picture about Daniel Blake Did Daniel Blake get in a shower in the last few episodes? I can't. We could do the whole pot on the shower scene. We could. I know. We definitely could.

So, obviously, anything that happened in those episodes and anything that has happened in Daredevil Born Again to date, could and likely will come up today. Anything that's ever happened in the Netflix Marvelverse could come up today. Anything that's ever happened in the MCU could come up today. We do have some MCU cameos and tie-ins that will, in fact, be coming up today. And, of course, some comics can and could come up today. So you've been warned. This is the Daredevil Born Again episodes 4-3-7 superlative special.

I'm thrilled. Let's do it. Joanna Robinson, the devil of my heart. No. Before we dive into our superlatives, is there anything on the opening snapshot, quick thoughts front that you want to share? about episodes four or five, six, and or seven. This week's episode seven, art for art's sake. Just a couple days old.

Yeah. Episode four feels like a lifetime ago already. It sure does. Sixthumper system. Okay, so listen. Spoilers for the superlatives, there's no category that is best episode. So I'm just going to knock that out right here. Yes, yes, please.

And say my favorite episode so far the season is episode five. with interest, this sort of inside man bank heist remake episode. From the opening, which starts with the Rocky Road to Dublin, shout out to my people, the Irish, all the way to the end, the ample use of use of Khan, who will probably come back up on the superlatives list. I just thought this was like a really, so this season has been so messy for me. there's highs, there's lows. And throughout I would say,

there are definite highs, but throughout I would say what felt like to me is that I didn't feel the steady hands of anyone who knows how to make television on the wheel of what we were watching. I felt like episode five.

The credit writer on that is, she has a beautiful Irish name, and I believe it's pronounced Graña Godfrey. And she's from the Aeroverse, the C.W. Aeroverse. She worked on the flash. As you know, I'm a fan. She worked on Legends of Tomorrow.

I also a fan of the Aeroverse, and a lot of those shows spun out as things that go too long often do. But in their initial seasons, when they were being made, it was just highly competent weekly superhero storytelling. Yes. And that's what episode five with interest felt like to me. I know a lot of people didn't like it. It felt like we were pressing pause on season-long arcs and all this sort of stuff like that. I just thought it was just such a good. this is what an episode, a very basic, not like the height of art, which I think like Daredevil and Netflix achieved,

but if you want like basic competent weekly superhero storytelling, I had so much fun with that episode. I thought, you know, the Irish robbers were great. I thought this was a... Stay tuned for more of my superlipus. I thought this was a great time to shine for Charlie Cox. I thought he was like wonderful in this episode. Really let him do a lot of different. flavors of mat in a really enjoyable way.

We got to see the charm. We got to see the violence. We got to see everything. And then, yeah, an excellent use of use of con, an excellent, like, sort of loose connective tissue to the rest of the MCU. So that is something I want to say. I want to say, I think in general, I think that Cherry, and the men I've always talked about this, but I think that Cherry and Kirsten are, like, complete failures this season.

And I feel confident saying that, like, we were talking about that. early on. And then, you know, I felt like we got some pushback of like, wait and see, wait and see. Well, okay, we're seven episodes into a nine episode season. And, like, I just think they, whether it has to do with how they had to recut the season or whatever, I don't know what it is. But if these are our foggy and care and replacements or even just, like, leaving, letting the, like, shadow of fogging, if this is just the infrastructure around Matt, it's not working.

It's not fleshed out in a way that makes a ton of sense. to me. I think Heather is actually a less of a failure than I was worried she was towards the beginning of the season. I thought episode seven, for all my feelings about it high and low, I thought it was a really good Heather episode. And, you know, she's starting to feel like a real character. I really agree with the Midnight Boys. I think it was Charles who raised this point that it does feel a bit like ooey-goey-goey-sticky storytelling for her to be Kingpin's therapist, Mews is therapist and Matt's girlfriend. That's just a lot for one character to be in the middle of.

But I think the performance is good. And again, she starts to feel like a real person in a way that Cheery and Kirsten have not yet been able to get to. I will say, did not reflect well on her intelligence that she was unable to sniff out Mews until he started drawing himself in blood. How could we know? We didn't see a single scene with them between that definitive session and the book signing. So how could we possibly say when her deductive reasoning is?

It would have been so nice to have seen them all season. I feel like, you know, we talked about the like Dex and his therapist relationship in the original series. And I don't know why we didn't get like sort of, we got more sessions with Dex and his therapist, which was like a one-off storyline of an episode than we got in a season of these two. They basically turned Muse into Fan of the Opera who once took Taekwondo. It doesn't make a ton of. of sense and it doesn't feel necessarily impactful. I have a lot to say here. I'm sorry, I'm almost done here. I'm not sure I'm seeing the reckoning that people who like the first few

episodes felt sure was coming with White Tiger's death and Matt's missteps around it. I don't feel like it's weighing as heavily on him as I like it to. His absolute responsibility for this. I understand that Matt is weighted down by trauma. We keep seeing him like a fingering Foggy's memorial card. Like that is, that is happening. But I don't feel like I see a reckoning or a true rebuke for like how abysmal his lawyering was. How, like, how we, like, I don't feel like the show is trying to say that was a terrible

turn for Matt. I don't, I don't think the show is judging him the way that I wish it would. Last one at least, shout out to three performances who will not make the superlatives. John Benjamin Hickey as DA Hockberg. I miss you. Yeah, same. I miss you a lot. Catherine Lanasa, who plays the incredibly named Artemis Sledge, basically the other

High Society New Yorker that Kingpin interacts with, who's not Jack Chican. She plays the legend Nurse Dana Evans on the pit right now, and she's having a great, like an absolute killer time on television. So I love to see her. And then for the indie cinema sickos of the early odds, Lou Taylor Pucci is at. Adam. Lou Taylor Pucci, who was in between 2005 and 2007,

was in a film called Thumb Sucker, Chum Scrubber, and the Go-Getter. These were like, sun dance smashola hits. He was sort of this like, Alternate Joseph Gordon Levitt for a second until he wasn't. But I'm just like,

Lou Taylor Pucci and his hands, got Vanessa? Okay. All right. So that's sort of all the takes I wanted to get off that won't be involved in the superlatives. Mallory Rubin, where are you with episodes 4 through 7? Don't worry. We'll have another opportunity to talk about Adam's hands. It'll come up again today. Great. Great.

Actually, perhaps more than once, spoiler, now that I think about it. Interesting. I, part of why I'm glad that we're doing the superlatives catch up on these four episodes is that I actually really quite enjoyed four and five. I wondered upon first viewing whether my, you know, canonically established obsession with John Berenthal's Frank Castle was just the only reason why I liked for so much. But revisiting that one, there was actually a lot about that episode that I really enjoyed. Some stuff still that didn't work for me inside of it. You know, I think overall my feeling on the season is still mixed, but mixed positive.

Before, there was just a lot in it that gripped me and that compelled me. And I thought to that point, it was the best episode of the season. And still now for me through seven, it is my favorite of the season. Four? Four? That's wild. Okay. I also, it just had, it had like a few of my favorite scenes of the season so far.

Absolutely. That I agree with. Yeah. Emotionally richest text. So that, like, carries, I think, a lot of weight. I did not ever think I would, I would hear Fiddle Farrell, Carmel. I say, I'm a caramel, sayer, but Carmel, corn uttered that many times in one episode of television. and I still can't believe it.

But here we are. The fiddle fattel mentions in an episode was one thing. It was then listening to Min I Boys after and hearing Van say it like 100 times. And I felt like I was losing my mind. That's what drove me. I loved it. I really enjoyed five as well. I thought, I agree with you.

I thought it was just a great fun, contained episode of television. And it is the episode in this season that compelled me to continue to assess my stance of like, well, maybe it is okay to try new things and to try a different approach to a dare devil season and like keeps me still with one. I don't, I'm not going to say I have one foot there. I'm actually pretty firmly back into the, you know what we like to make more of that camp. I'm pretty, pretty staunchly positioned there now. But that's the episode that made me most confident that a certain version of this season that was more like contained tale of the week could have actually been quite fun to watch. I'll be very different from the show that we had seen before.

A lot of my picks today are coming from episodes four and five. Spoiler. I do have picks from all four episodes, but a lot of my – I'm four and five heavy. Six I thought was fun, but not as strong for me as four and five. And then seven is my least favorite of the season so far. There was stuff in seven that I liked still, but it had the highest volume of moments that made me go, huh? Just like inexplicable bits of logic or –

You mean like someone, and I'm really mad at them, and I always talk about this because this was going to be my favorite take. But do you mean that it's not the same thing to run your fingers down the 3D profile of your lover's face and then a 2D painting? Correct. I mean that. And I mean all aspects of that, the original face rubbing, the rubbing of the paintings, the flashing back then to the rubbing of the actual face from mere moments prior high on my list now of examples to sight of a tendency in TV that drives me. me bonkers. To your cherry point, like Cherry going in and lecturing Matt about his decision to become Daredevil again is one of the least compelling things I've seen on TV in a minute. Like, are we supposed to care about Cherry's indictment of Matt's chosen path? I have no investment

in that relationship. So why would his stance move me at all the way that a foggy challenge would have in the past? It's just like not working. And then just little things like, you know, two cops initially going down to take pictures of Muses Lair. It's like this serial killer is murdered 60 plus people and used their blood to make paint. We don't have like legions of people down there. Where's the CSI team? Yeah.

Yeah. And I think everything with Luca is just a complete, complete flop for me. It's just such a lame. Like it's just such a lame character. So, you know, there were there were. And then, like, I think the thing we already briefly talked about I found, I did also like the inside of the Heather and Mews sequence. You know, the tension was palpable. I thought ultimately the fight, like Matt shooting a grappling, surging a grappling. Yes, through Mues's chest. And then pulling him back onto the canvas to, ah, Mews, you would have loved it if you hadn't been dead. Use his blood as a paint. Quite fun to watch. I thought that was all really interesting. But it was hard for me when Mews and Heather were. reaching their climactic moment of the big reveal to feel like I understood how we got there other than him literally repeatedly saying like your books, they had a big influence on me.

You, you were not just the conduit, you were the key. Give us a couple of scenes with those characters. So seven felt like a real boiling pot of all of the stuff we've talked about across the season where like you can feel what's missing or what was shoehorned in and how that is not quite fitting together in a way that is like was as successful in that episode as other parts of the season. But overall, I think there are more episodes that I've, oh, you know what else? This is a small one, but this was like, this would have been a classic on a rewatchful's

episode, picking nits. Matt can take Heather home because she has minor lacerations and no concussion. Mews shoved her through a wall and then picked her up at his head level and shoved her down into the floor and sliced through her arm. take her home. She's fine. No concussion. No concussion.

She's fine. Don't worry about it. Minor lacerations. I mean, well, that's like the time that Matt dropped the cop on his head and he was fine. So yeah, seven was not a huge fan. Four, five, and six had a lot of fun. Four and five in particular. Eager for eight and nine, still anticipating perhaps for reasons I can't quite articulate a strong finish. I think because our, and this will come up a lot in the superlatives picks, no surprise.

We're heightening our. our dark mirror thematic examination in a way that I'm, you know, consistently compelled by a dare devil story. So I'm hoping for a strong finish. We'll see. I'll miss getting to chat about the penultimate with you next week. But we will be back together to discuss the finale and the season as a whole and where season two might go.

So not our last daredevil chat. But it is time to highlight some things that stuck with us from these four episodes of television. What got its grappling hook into us, Joe? What did we put that epoxy on so that the paint could not be removed? I will say, this is one of my superliff's list, but like, it's blood, it's human blood, was a great moment of television. Genuinely iconic. And like that also felt like a kind of classic Daredevil were like moment where you get these just New York, through and through New York characters.

Like that guy was more so than many of the people I think we've seen in these BB report, interstitials, a New York character. And that was quite amusing and very fun. Sheila was not amused, but I was. Yeah. And you are. Yes. And that's what counts. All right, Joe, let's start our episode four through seven superlatives. This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market. Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce and some very tasty limited time flavors. New Whole Foods, Market Peach, Apricot, Rose, Italian soda. Perfect for a picnic or brunch, as is their trending mango, Yuzu chantilly cake. But if you're on the go, new 365 strawberry pretzels make a great sweet snack. That sounds delicious. Get savings with yellow sale

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ranch willing to protect its secrets at all costs. Legacy is a beautiful thing, but only if it survives. Dutton Ranch starring Colehousor, Kelly Riley, Annette Benning and Ed Harris now streaming on Paramount Plus. Favorite scene for many of the episodes. What do you

got? I think it's not even close as much as I didn't think it worked inside of the episode, it has to be the Punisher and Matt scene in episode four. I think, and as we talked about it, when we covered it in your absence, like, it really felt like very clearly, they've talked about how it was a lift from a later episode into episode four to get similar to how they had that, like, diner scene between Matt and Fiske in the beginning of the season, they were just sort of like, we got to get Frank in there earlier or else people are going to be bummed and being like, where's Frank? And so, you know, they put that in there.

I don't think it works with the rest of the episode. But in isolation, if you're like, what's your favorite scene? Pull it out of the show and talk about it. It's Frank and it's Matt. This is as close as we've gotten to some of that religiosity. I feel very strongly that Matt should either be bleeding or crying or preferably both at any time on the show. And Frank got in there like, but quick, bleeding and then crying. Very compelling.

Yeah. We're talking about fog. we're really feeling the weight of something in a way that I don't, you know, whether it's because Matt is repressing or whatever it is, in the way that I don't necessarily feel it elsewhere. I like that it was sort of like grimy and underground. I'm really not loving this sort of like bright daylight all the time, Daredevil. So the fact that we're like down in a basement with Frank feels, feels right to me, feels as it should be. and yeah, and Johnny, Johnny B was his usual self.

Except long-haired and bearded. What a treat! What a joy for you. Oh, my God. So I feel like in terms of your dark, you know, the show is obviously very trying to do dark mirror Fisk and Matt. We get intercuts between fights where they're using similar moves. We're watching Matt go underground into the tunnels and Fis go down underground into his, like little Adam layer and like all this sort of stuff like that.

But it's not hitting the way it hit with Frank, has always hit with Frank and Matt and no half measures and all of the conversations that they had. And it's like one of the few things that has ever, I think, lived up to the heights of what we got in the original series. So that I think is a clear answer for me. Yeah. Me too. We have, we'll reveal one of our later categories,

which is like the great return to form or something about like the OG formula kind of shining through. And certainly we could have picked this for that category, but it feels like it transcended it beyond. I'm sorry. I couldn't think of another answer for this or another answer for that. I was like, it's just. It certainly fits the brief for both of them. For the other one, I went with something where I'm like latching on to something that I'm hoping is returning. But we'll get there.

Yeah, the return of the Punisher, Frank and Matt at the end of episode four is my favorite scene of the season as well. I thought this was just utterly and completely vintage and I loved everything about it. And I could have happily watched nine episodes of these two in a dark, grimy room together, punching each other, crying in front of each other and hurling vessels of beverages in the vicinity of each other. And I would have been, I would have been thrilled. And this is the scene, this is the opposite of what I was saying a few minutes ago about how, like, episode five was my, my, oh, maybe I'll keep a toe in the, yeah, let's reinvent. Let's try a totally different format. This is, to me, the, like, no, the argument's over, actually. Give me the original. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

We know not just what worked, but what was actually, like, transcendent about the original Daredevil series when it was operating at that specific frequency. and we do actually clearly still have the ability to continue to do that. So it would be really great if we were doing that. Maybe we'll be more in the future. Our dark mirrors, our there, but for the grace faves back in a room. What a treat. No one, you know, obviously Matt and Fisk are ultimately the core dark mirror pair of the entire daredevil television experience. But nobody, nobody calls me.

Matt out as effectively as Frank. You know, I, like, I just love any time he, he issues one of these rebukes in the original series or inside of this scene here at Matt. I'm just kind of like blown back by it in a way that I love as a viewer. You know, are you of service, Red? Did you serve? You prance around the city in a Halloween costume beating the snod out of guys. Thanks for your service.

I don't have time for your candy-ass hero shit. Is that clear? But then the best, of course, is like, I think you want my permission. The way that he's able to read Matt and that it is simultaneously true but also wrong. And the thing that Matt identifies and part of him belongs for, but he fears and he knows is the line that he can't allow himself to cross. It just makes their – it's like an ever-renewing resource, their interactions because there's that core dilemma driving them. the way that this, to your larger point about what is Matt carrying, suppressing, ready or not ready to like consciously interrogate, the way that this encounter briefly unearthed that. And Frank just said like the guilt, the shame, that's my home.

And then the way that Matt couldn't like the emotions just spilled out of him. Yeah. I thought was so moving and impactful. And I love. should always be bleeding and crying until you texted me. But once you did, I couldn't, I don't have a counter argument. I do not have a counter argument. And I think you are right. When Frank said, you come at me with that horseshit about saving lives. How about that friend of yours you save his life? You lost him, didn't you? I was just like, I was like, shaking. Like, it was like,

this is it. This is what we've been waiting for. And, you know, they're both just so good. and so good together, that to go from the kind of, like, frantic screaming of Frank, like, say his name, say his name, you coward to the, for Frank, almost like, uncontrollable, quivering emotion of, he talks to you, doesn't he, you hear his voice, don't you? That is so then tied to Frank's history and Frank's trauma on Frank's loss and Frank's grief. But then the thing about a Punisher Daredevil scene is, like, you're so kind of, I'll speak for myself, I'm so compelled by Frank's logic the bulk of the way and then Matt always lands the winning punch, like not necessarily literally, but like kind of thematically, right, in a way that feels so crucial for their

relationship. Like when they were talking about Foggy and Matt, you know, screamed he got, about Bullseye, he got life and Frank around through all the reasons that that was not an acceptable thing to say or think or believe. And then Matt said like Foggy was the kindest purest soul I ever met. And guys like you and me, we could work a lifetime and never measure up to decency. It's like, that is so crucial. Like, what did Foggy mean to Matt and how did he guide him in his life? And now, how is he guiding him or anchoring him in absentia just feels essential to where Matt is right now as a character. So I was like so grateful to hear Matt talk about it for just a second. I'm real, this is the thing I'm like, I think most hopeful they're saving more

of for the end of the season. And I really, really, really hope. I hope we get it. Your favorite, Karen. Let me tell you something. You miss her. I'm prepared to issue a formal apology. Yeah, you miss her.

Badly! I want to go back to, you know, I always love a Baller Rubin line readout. I think that the word choice of prance is so perfect. I absolutely love it. And I was thinking of Frank and Matt in episode seven. when they're fighting, they're fighting, fighting tooth and nail, they're fighting to the nail. And then Heather just shoots muse. And I feel like Matt was like, babe, we don't.

We don't kill people like that. We throw them downstairs and then pretend we didn't. And we say they're fine. Yeah, we don't shoot people. It's not what we do here. Oh, my God. Great stuff. Speaking of.

Yeah. Bullet spray, grappling hooks, punches. and any other aspect of a brawl that you would like to incorporate. Our next category is sickest fuck. I think I'm going to fail this prompt,

but I had to answer truthfully from my heart. I feel like everyone listening at home is going to disagree with me, but that's fine. Okay. Because we saw a lot of carnage in the last couple episodes. A lot of violence, yeah.

For me, it's the episode five stairwell fight of Matt versus one of the robbers where he's using his tie in a lot of the action. It's close up action where he gets to the real reason you picked it. It's the thigh. It's the thigh head choke. That's not nothing.

Good old Saeed. But like it's a, and he has to like catch the gun before it drops, let it make a sound. All of that stuff I really, really liked. And then stands in such stark contrast to you. almost every other not so much in the muse fight but almost every other fight there's a moment

of CGI choice that I'm just sort of like why like at the end of episode five when he's got the mask on and is fighting the head robber in the sort of alleyway

under classic New York scaffolding that's a great fight I really loved that one too until this like weird CGI double leap onto the broken leg moment at the end. That's just sort of like it's gross, but it's also

cartoon. And I just really, really, on a daredevil fight, want to feel just like every punch, every blow. And so like when Matt just like flies, zips in, swings in Spider-Man style into some of these various fights, it just like really takes me out

of that like brawling sense that I want. And so I felt like that stairway fight in episode five was like a true brawl. A true just like scrambling for purchase brawl. And I loved it. And I also love an improvised props in a fight.

So the Thai stuff really worked for me. Matt was just like walking downstairs, like loosening it. And they just like whipped it off and like work some absolute magic. The way too that he like folded up his walking stick to get ready. You're like, oh shit. Oh shit. Here it goes. Yeah, exactly.

That was really fun. Yeah. That's my runner up. I really like that. that as well for all the reasons that you mentioned, that like really kind of tactile, close, proximate, painful, filthy, intimate nature of a daredevil TV brawl. I think it's, it's, it's second still on the season overall to the fight with the Dirty Cops in episode two at the end of the episode, which was just, you know, said, boy, I can still feel those, those broken arm

snaps and the, the, the shoving of the head into various freezers, tables, floors, etc. And I loved when Matt and the callback was like to Powell. Yeah. Except you'd have to bring more men this time. Wouldn't you? Like Matt talking shit is always fun. But in terms of the episode set and question today, I think that's a, I think that's a great pick. I don't think people will, you think people didn't like that fight or they'll be like, how could you not pick something else?

I don't, like, I actually am not talking to a ton of people. I don't have any man on the street experience with Daredeville. I don't actually know a ton of people who are watching. You're not doing your version of the TV report. No, the JR report is not in full effect. But I felt like I saw some chatter people just like really not liking that episode. So I feel preemptively defensive of it. I really liked it too.

And then I liked in the in the alley fight, the aforementioned alley fight that Matt, you know, took Mr. Reds mask and put it on. Because we're like, oh, Gateway Mask. We're in shape. Gateway Mask. Yeah, Gateway Mask. I was expecting him to, well, I mean, we do need to go to Accent Corner. Charlie Cox is like Belfast accent kind of hilarious

But anyway Yeah yeah yeah I love the mask Moment in that Also very helpful with a stunt double If you've got a mask on your face For sure Beautiful yeah yeah Great pick I think that's a great pick

I know because of something you said already today That you're not going to like my pick But that's okay Yeah Here we are Yeah Sharing our passions with each other Yes beautiful

I am going with the the aforementioned intercutting at the end of episode six between Fiske in our poor sweet fucker out with this beautiful artist hands and Matt and Mews. I really, really agree and co-sign with the CGI point and the swinging across the city and into battle point. I'm not viving with that either. I'm with you. Once we actually, you know, I think I'm picking this. because I found it to be a compelling, albeit not subtle, but ultimately a compelling, leaning into that dark mirror fist map pairing.

And just more specifically, so much of this season has been both of them telling themselves, trying to tell themselves, telling other people, telling each other that they're not the same person anymore. And to see the way that they both in this kind of mirror fashion slid back into their prior tendencies, their prior selves. I found compelling and like I think in the Matt versus Muse aspect of it, which was the less

successful of the two fights for me, that we were cutting between for a number of reasons. But I did, in terms of what got us there. Yeah. Matt, Soledad calling Matt about Angela and then Matt calling 911 letting just that second pass and then fuck it. I was like, Hell yeah. That carried a lot for me. That was just really, really great. And then suiting up and going. In terms of Matt versus Muse, especially because of, you know, the conversation with both Matt and Muse and Heather about like what you were hiding or heightening when you have a mask on, it was interesting to watch these two men in a mask face off and like what the two sides of that can be when you choose to put that costume on, that suit on.

And then, of course, like, any moment where we watch Matt walk a line of savagery and that question of what pulls him out on it, like, wrapping a chain around Mews's neck and pulling him up and then like Angela's heartbeat and the slowing of it, pulling him out. I actually thought storytelling wise in the episode was very silly because like Matt. It was so aggravating to me. I'm just like knock him out and save the girl who's being exanguinated at this very moment. I completely agree. From inside the episode and in terms of just like, okay, so they had to get Mews to the next episode. I found that very aggravating. I like to think Matt is like smarter and frankly more deft than that at navigating a situation.

And also the in-story explanation that Mews took Taekwondo and so could go blow to blow with Matt is just like very silly. But anyway, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Though I did think that in the Mews get up, the shoulders were very broad and the muscles were very musseling. Correct. They were. The muscles were, in fact, muslin. We're very musseling.

But, you know, just like Matt kind of being pulled toward the light out of the dark, more effective than the actual storytelling choice there. Wilson versus Adam, you know, we have now more than one moment where we've seen him kind of like stomp heavily down into hell, back into this monstrous, sook of stances state that he tells him, am I a monster? A very fee-fi-foam, very, no one has ever, I think, a lumber. as much as he has been lumbering in these in these episodes, yeah. Quite.

And before we get to hear him scream, mine about Vanessa. Very disturbing. I have to say disturbing. We got a little callback to our favorite hammer, you know, when he's got the axe and he's talking about his upbringing and the things that he learned from the people around him. And I learned that a simple tool can be a great equalizer. So to take this, like, defining moment in his life and basically use it.

to taunt and toy with and torment this person who he considers a source of something of a betrayal now in his life was, I thought, really interesting. And then, of course, the bludgeoning and absolute beat down taking place in front of rabbit or having it in a snowstorm. That was delicious. So I liked that. I liked that. Should we go from violence to sex?

It's all the same to Matt Murdoch, honestly. Really? So much blood in the shower. So much blood in the shower. shower. Our next category today, Joe, is sexiest sequence. I'm going to, is your answer the shower sex? It's not. Okay, weird. Okay. Great. I guess. Okay. I was going to leave that to you. I have a shocking pick coming. Oh my God. Is it Daniel Blake? I'm upset. Okay. No, it's not. La shower sex, I guess. I will be my pick.

The shower sex that was promised in the trailer. Now fucking time. Great stuff. He's actively bleeding. and smooching at the same time. It's a misdirect from her asking troubling questions. I really thought when he got his thigh slashed by Muse in that fight, I really thought later Heather would put it together when they were back home and presumably back in the shower and his thigh was slashed in the same place. But as of yet, Heather, great hair, not great observational skills.

Okay. She did, she spotted the like lower rib side bruise. Yeah. And she's like, what are you doing? He's like, I go for walks and bumble. into things. I'm blind Heather. Dear God. This is embarrassing, sweetie. Listen, I'm with you on the, let's put this together faster front, especially when you're

sharing plot lines with every meaningful character. Yeah. Quickly getting distracted by Matt Murdoch passionately kissing you in the shower. Folks, Who among us? I have a postscript. Have you heard, and this is going to take us down an alleyway that I'm sorry, I think we need to go down together because we haven't talked about this. Have you seen, and this is related, honestly, to this show, I promise. Have you seen the Michael Fassbender interview on Graham Norton where he talks about the gloves he wore in the film The Killer?

I don't think so. I've seen the film The Killer. Okay. I'm going to give you, hit you some quotes, and then we're going to come back to Darendel. He told, you know, on Graham Norton, he said, we tried different gloves. We had leather gloves made, but David wanted gloves that were super sleek. So they went with what are known as fisting gloves from the BDSM community.

And Fassbender says we went through quite a lot of them actually because I spoke to the prop guy and he said there are no more fisting gloves left. We bought all the fissing gloves off this company. Okay? So Michael Fassbender squeezed an entire company dry of all of their fisting gloves supply. So when News shows up in the fight and he is wearing these like up to the elbow. bow, tight as can be gloves. I was like, are those just like opera length fisting gloves? I don't know, but I had some questions about it. Did you do some research? I have no answers. Hobbits and dragons at DEML.com if you're from the BDSM community. If you're from the like I like to paint with

bodily fluids community. Actually, don't email us if you're from that community. I think we, yeah. But it made me think of that and I realized that I hadn't talked to you about it. It just felt like something that you should know, Mallory Urban, in case you didn't. That in the killer, Michael Fassbender, is wearing fisting gloves. I want to sincerely thank you for sharing this knowledge with me. You're welcome. I'm looking forward to revisiting the film, a film I quite enjoyed and a performance I quite enjoyed. Oh, it's a wonderful film.

Wonderful movie. And this is just a cherry, the tight latex cherry on the top of the Sunday that is that film. My rewatch will be enriched by this exchange. You're welcome. So thank you. I love cinema. You love cinema and you love learning. Yeah, I do. I love a fun fact.

You love an ocean vista, but you hate a crevice, so. Well, if you have a fist and glove, you know, what are you going to do? Well, I'll for you right there. Great pick. I did not pick the shower scene. The other thing that I briefly considered picking was the scene in episode four between Matt and Sophia, haggling over probation, you know, pretty sure you snuck a piece of honeycake for breakfast. But can't pick it because I'm going to stand it. on my corner, a corner I know you inhabit, Matt Murdoch, stop telling women you can smell

what they ate. When you said episode four was your favorite, I almost said, even though he told another woman that he could smell what she ate for breakfast. Against my better judgment, I found myself quite compelled by that exchange, but then I was annoyed with Matt once again. It's like, Matt, you're very, you're very magnetic. Next time Karen walks into your apartment, don't tell her you can smell the curry from a couple days ago. And this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this lovely prosecutor Sophia. I don't think she wanted you to tell her that you could smell the honeycake.

She snuck for breakfast. On the one hand, I would agree with you. On the other hand, I don't know, she seemed composed. She seemed into it. She did. She's like, are you missed her right? Yeah. She seemed quite compelled.

Could be for probation. Yeah. I'd watch another scene with those two. Sure. I'm, I think I'm, I'm more ready for Matt to engage in a different romantic interlude than you are with respect to Heather. No, you're not enjoying Heather and that's fine. And I don't think she's wonderful at all.

I just think this was like, I just think of all the new characters. Surprisingly, she's the one that is sort of coming together the most for me. And it still feels not enough. Third on your list after Buck Cashman and Daniel Blake. It's Buck Cashman, the world's most nuanced character. So incredible stuff from our guy Buck Cashman in these episodes. Dr. Heather Therapist. That's her last name, right?

And then... Sorry, it's a double barrel. Dr. Heather Therapist, author. And then Daniel Blake, that's my ranking of new characters, yes. Strong top three. I like it. I don't mind it. Okay.

Here's what I'm picking. Buckle up. This is one of the weirder things I've ever done on one of our superlative pods. I'm like, let me tell you a fun fact about fisting gloves. You were like, hold my beer. Here we go. I think you're going to maybe, you're going to wonder if this honors the spirit of the prompt.

But I thought this was sexy, genuinely. And also just wanted to talk a little bit more about actually my favorite character from these four episodes. Devlin, my favorite hot hijacker and bank robber. Mr. Green. Great. This guy should be super famous. He's so hot.

I'm like, how can I not pick him? What I loved about him, I love that you're picking this. and I'm sorry, I'm going to let you monologue. I will just say, the inside man comps were so strong. They literally filmed in the same bank. It's all on page. To be able to be in the Clive Owen role and just sort of like completely rise to the occasion, 10-10, no notes. Go for it.

I spend some time on Killian O'Sullivan's IMDB. I won't lie to you. I can't believe his name is Killian O'Sullivan. Are you kidding me? This is just like an incredibly magnetic performance. He's wonderful. A fast-talkin, salty asshole who is extremely rude, but either despite that, or let's be honest, because of it incredibly hot, really worked.

It really, really worked when he said he was on the hostage negotiation call with Angie and said, whom? I'm not going to try to do the accent. But he said, whom? elocution off the top. I was just like you have me. I know the way he was flirting with Misty. I just looked at his IMTV page.

Yeah. The Trekkies Day winning, he's going to be on Strangy World season three. Is it time, Mallory? I think it might be. I think it might be. I have to spend more time with him. Also, I know who he's playing, and this is actually a big deal who he's playing. So, okay.

Fascinating. Fascinating. Oh. I can't wait to tell you. You don't need to tell me anything else I'm in. It's going to be a love triangle. I'm very excited. I won't tell you with her back.

Okay, actually now, how much time do I have to catch up? You've got time. They just put out the trailer. You've got time. Okay. I will be there. I just like, I have a new passion and I will be there joining you. Let me tell you, though, my single favorite thing that Devlin said, please.

He's asking where Matt's from, Matt's like hell's kitchen. He says, before the big swim, Mr. Smartass. And Matt says, I don't know. I was raised in an orphanage. And then Devlin says, Jesus wept a blind solicitor. And hold for it. An orphan, are you bloody serious?

You're like a regular we, Charles Dickens character. This is a great episode of television. I just fucking loved this. Really? It was amazing. Oh, it was wonderful. My new Daredevil Born Again Crush is Deflin the Bankruptor. twist.

This is how we get you into Strangy Two Worlds, a win across the board. It was all worth it. It was all worth it. Okay, you supported my Devlin. My Devlin pick. I'm thrilled. Wholeheartedly. Wholeheartedly.

So much so that I was like, can Devlin come back for another episode? I want to know. How's he doing? I mean, the leg break was severe. Is he healing nicely? I hope so. Will we be checking in Dare to Dream? Yeah.

Perhaps my deep and abiding and instant passion for Devlin is something that I should discuss in therapy, which brings us to our next category. What was the best? Everyone can use therapy moment for you in these episodes. I don't know if I fully understand this prompt, but I didn't ask you a follow-up question because I have only one answer to you, and it's this. I wrote it down to my notes, like, incredulously. Okay.

In episode six. Yeah. Matt is talking to Angela, and she's like, ugh, that therapy talk. And he goes, was I doing that? I kind of hate that, too. Matt, you're dating a therapist. Matt, you are dating a therapist. And then the next episode, Heather's like,

is this some form of self? I was like, Heather, he hates therapy talk. This is not the way forward. I was just like, Matt, what are we doing? We hate therapy talk and we're dating Heather, whose last name is therapist, author. Like, what are, like, look inwards, Matt. What are we doing here?

So I don't know that this is exactly what you had in mind when he said everyone could use therapy, but I was just like of all the notes that I took over these episodes, that one was just like underlined for me so many times. Therapy talk, I kind of hate that too. I'm like, Matt, what are you talking about? The way that he mockingly when she was starting talking about his trauma bubbling up in a way that was going to ruin the good things in his life.

And he's like, thank you, Dr. Glenn. Thank you, Dr. Glenn. And she's like, my last name is therapist author. Why he kept calling me Dr. Glenn? Yeah, she's like, quit it. Don't do that. Oh, man. Matt.

Matt. Okay. You know, just thinking of these scenes in their apartment, the one thing I will say about the daylight, which I obviously broadly agree with in terms of the palette I'm expecting from the show, it has allowed me to identify in a way that the initial darker episodes with the giant wordmark from screeners couldn't, that the white wall is actually a painted brick. So texture there. Yeah. So I've warmed ever so slightly to the apartment, but still think it's a fucking crick. that we're not in the loft. There is some kind of neon happening outside the window, though.

We get like glimpses of it. It's not the same as the billboard, but it's like there is a neon sign like across the straight around the corner that I saw in one of the later episodes. Okay. I love your interpretation of the prompt. It's an open one. It could be something that happen in a session of therapy because we've had so many sessions of therapy and that is what I did.

Or it could be someone who should be in a session of therapy. Or it could be someone who fears to go to a session of therapy. Any of these are valid interpretations of the prompt. It's been a very therapy forward season of TV, so I felt like we should engage with that song now. And I personally love therapy and think everyone should be in it. Okay, go ahead. And it's benefiting some people in the show.

Didn't work for Muse? Is it working for the Fisks, though? I think it might be. And I would like to talk about another reason that I liked episode four. Okay. I thought the, let's talk about the affair scene with Heather Wilson and Vanessa was, there's something in it that I thought was quite silly and have some notes on, but broadly I enjoyed this sequence.

First of all, just the way that the physical positioning of the characters has evolved over the course of the season, we enter this scene and Vanessa is in the middle of the couch and is inching back toward Wilson physically, but emotionally as well. When Heather said, used the word, invoke the word affair, the way that Wilson was like muttering stupid ridiculous term. It's not a dinner party. It's a betrayal. I really quite enjoyed that and then Vanessa building toward like you left. That was the betrayal. Like you leaving me to go be an echo. That was the betrayal. And there was some comedy in this stretch. Like when Vanessa's like, are you asking for details about Adam? And then the way

she started to describe his hands. I told you the hands would come up again and the sketches. And Wilson is cringing and he's so uncomfortable. But the way that she talked about Adam's art, it was so clarifying, right? It's like it's not just that she fucked another dude. She fucked an artist. She was sleeping with an artist a portal back into her old life. Like her pre-Wilson existence.

And specifically then when she said, like, he wasn't a part of my husband's world. First of all, you get the what world is that politics. And then in unison, Wilson and Vanessa saying business. So you feel that like harmony between them still and hasn't quite been lost yet. We're circling the wagons. Yeah, this idea that like one of the things we really had fun talking about in our catch-up pot, our revisitation of the three. Netflix seasons and our top moments from that experience was like the way and in the beginning of this season as well, the way Vanessa had embraced, had said, let me into this world in full. it's not like she got dragged into something she didn't want to be a part of.

She's good at it. She wants to be doing it. And so it's even more of a withering blow that she would say, take me back to like where I was before because it's not this. For Wilson to have to confront that, I thought was important. Here's the part of the scene that didn't work for me. When it became quite literally a therapy madlibs when Vanessa was like, what did it trigger for you? I'm going to talk about my father for a minute and my parent issues and let me talk about abandonment drinking gambling behavior toward my mother all in the span of like 30 seconds.

It's like, okay, that feels like a little heavy-handed. But I did still like, in terms of a character insight for Vanessa, when she said of her mother, I never respected her for that. Right? Like, I watch her be crushed down by this and just stay. And that that would be something that was informing the way Vanessa viewed, especially the way the scene ends with this, like, conversation about, first. forgiveness, the way Vanessa views what you gain from forgiveness, but also what maybe you're

losing, where you're trading off and what you're sacrificing inside of yourself. And then I just liked thinking about that idea of forgiveness, especially because Heather is a bridge across these character sets for Matt? Like, is Matt going to be able to forgive himself? So all in all, I thought that scene was an interesting and rich text and part of why episode four are beyond just Frank and the Honey King. was one that I quite liked. Frank and the Honeycake as spin off, I would definitely watch.

Same. Joe, it's time for the category we really came here for today. Okay. It's the James Wesley in Memorial Award for Most Impactful Moment from a Right Hand man, a.k.a. our excuse, not that we need one, folks, to talk about Buck Cashman and or Daniel Blake. You have so many choices here. What are you going with? I have a small smuggle. I have two.

I'm great. Okay. Number two. Yeah. Is when Fisk says, look outside the window, what do you see? And Daniel says Starbucks. This is my pick.

That's my pick. And then Daniel really quickly says voters. That's my pick. I thought that was hysterical. Incredibly good. I would like to say. And I thought you were going to pick the moment where your guy, Daniel, sits behind fist's desk and, like, puts the screws to B, because I thought that was, like,

a really good character. Harrowing. Moment for him. You know, and I really like the contrast, you know, I, like, really regret to inform you. And I hate that this is true. That Sheila is just, like, a non-entity character for me. She's just here to tell us where he's supposed to go, what party he's supposed to be. Like, she seems so functionary.

but the contrast between the slick sort of like 007 Buck Cashman and then the more brutal rough edge Daniel Blake as like the person Fisk wants to be and the person Fisk knows himself to be is working really well for me at this point in this season and so I will say and of seven

when Buck Cashman double-o-7s his way out of the shadows to put us all out of our misery on the Luca storyline. I thought that was extremely excellent. Hiding in the drapery. Yeah. Just out of the shadows, here comes Buck Cashman. And then, you know, Fiske is like, get Vanessa's to go order. And Buck's like, sure, while he's dealing with the body at the same time.

What can't Buck Cashman do is the question. It's true. That man knew his way around a silencer. That was clear. I thought it was great. And yeah, none of them are rising to the level of Wesley in my mind. But to get their powers combined are sort of getting there and they're and they're representing something very different. Yes.

Which I really like. I think this was smart to like, and especially to plan our early kind of like expectation or tendency to say, oh, who will be the new, the Wesley or the Wesley light to say no. it's actually like there could never possibly be. It's like the two of them together have to approximate that. And maybe that will cease to be true and one of them will kind of rise in time. But so far it's been the dynamic duo act has been effective. Yeah, the more I see them like together, the more I like it as like, yeah, this duo. Yeah.

And it's interesting too because like thinking, like we get some insights into like when Fisk was saying, you know, to Buck. Like, remember why I brought you over here. Yeah, your specific set of skills. Yes, book. Yes. My ability to think asymmetrically. That's just so different to what is drawing him much more organically to Daniel. Like you've said, you know, that thing that he recognizes about a younger version of himself or would like to rediscover somehow about who he is now. Also just this like, you know, both of them are providing this in a different way, but this, especially in this moment where, you know, he's using words betrayal, etc. to talk about Vanessa. And we hear him say many times, like, you know, he tells Vanessa as they're getting ready for the fundraiser sitting on the bed, like, you're even more extraordinary than you were before. In the therapy scene, he says, like, that he told Adam, like, about our marriage.

I told him I couldn't fathom a life of meaning without her. And he's, like, his voice is quaking as he's overcome with emotion saying that. So even though he's describing the Adam affair as a betrayal, he is still fully committed to a life with Vanessa. But even so, there is this quality in the air of, like, who will just stand by my side, right? And so this idea of loyalty and what Buck and Daniel both represent about loyalty and about how Fisk can, like, amass or gain new followers. And people who are willing to stand by his side has been kind of interesting to watch. Is your interpretation of the final moment of seven that Vanessa set Luca up to, to, get got by a buck cash from the restaurant. That's my interpretation too.

Yes. Yeah. I think when she texted him and sent him there, it was, you know, and then the fact that Buck is standing at the ready, that they're in cahoots. I think that's been interesting to, like, the way that they talked about, you know, adding an extra million as a tax to Luca. And they have worked their way back to just kind of openly Vanessa and Wilson discussing the business and engaging with the more nefarious aspects while Wilson trumpets wherever he can. it, you know, the vigilante task force is going to be deployed because you have to heed the rule of law. And of course, he's not doing that. But this moment has passed where he was like, I need to maintain complete and total distance. That's not really where he is anymore with it. That Vanessa spilling on Luca to set up the buck from the shadows of the window dressings kill while Wilson then continued to eat his meal. That all was like, I thought, pretty good. the idea that Luca could be dumb enough to believe that after a 45 second conversation, Vanessa Fisk would decide to kill her husband was like, I'm just like, really?

This guy? But I mean, I guess he's just a bag of hot air who's stupid for his track suit breaches. I suppose if Luca had been privy to the therapy sessions, but he hasn't been. And all he's seen is like the tensions around town. Glad Luca's gone. Rested pieces, my guy, you won't be missed. So, yeah, my pick was also from episode seven, the Starbucks moment. Just thought that was fucking great.

Genuinely funny. I really liked it. My, I guess my runner-up, the whole, like, mayor garbage sequence, specifically the comedy of Daniel's confession, Sheila's trying to say, you don't have to tell, right? And Daniel's like, I had a lot to drink. Wilson's like, you should stop. Tequila and in the spirit of total honesty, there was some ketamine. That's incredible.

It was really funny. But I liked how even though there was the threat at the end, like, you know, I'm going to, if you ever fuck up and you betray me again, that's it for you. That's a wrap. The way that Wilson looked down at him after Daniel's very sad, like eternally loyal, forever grateful plea and apology and said, you know, in the fullness of time, you'll make a better man. It was, I love that. just the way he was so clearly looking at a younger version of himself in that moment and trying to give him the counsel that he didn't have. I thought that was great. So Daniel Blake and Buck Cashman, all stars. Wild. Our next category, Joanna, is not about the new heroes of our story,

but about the spirit and essence of something old and familiar. It is the most encouraging return to form. You have already told us that your pick for this is Frank. We've already talked about it. So why don't we just go directly to yours? What's yours? Okay. As I teased to you already, this is like a, I'm latching on to the promise. I feel this is a promise of more to come. We'll see.

I love this for you. Episode six. Matt's prayer. Matt holding foggies in memoriam card in his hand. Closest look we've gotten at this card as well. We had talked about how Matt seemed to be putting it in his pocket, carrying it with him every day. the wear on Foggy's photo, the way that you could just tell that this has been something in his hand every minute since he lost Foggy, I thought was so beautiful. But just like to hear Matt pray.

And they come back to it, it's playing again at the end of the episode, but to see Matt sitting in the edge of his bed in prayer, holding Foggy's photo in his hand, thinking about him the flashes to Foggy's death, to Karen's scream, to the rooftop with bull's eye. I'm not trying to yuck your gal, I love that you love this. And I agree with you because I wrote my notes like, finally a bit of religiosity. Yes, exactly. But next to I wrote flashbacks, Mal's going to hate this. But in this moment, it worked for you. I don't hate a flashback. I hate when inside of the same episode they flashback to something from 10 minutes ago.

It's like, I was watching this episode. I'm watching it right. I remember. I know that that's the worst offender. I thought maybe like inside of the same season is, but like, yeah, you're right. You're right. It was. No, no, no.

I didn't. Yeah, Matt's sort of like reflecting on all of the different like terrors and horrors we saw Hector, Fiske at the diner, et cetera. But then the way he said amen and just kissed the card I thought was like so sweet and moving and touching. And I'm just really still craving a return to an incorporation of Matt's faith. And just this little morsel that we got here. And then the conversation immediately after with Heather, because she's like, what are you doing? And the way he said, oh, you know, just checking in, you pray still. Yeah, I've stopped a few times over the years, but always end up coming back to it. Like the fact that they actually acknowledge this like lapse in Matt's engagement with his faith. And the way that that entwined here with foggy and with his grief and his shame as like the thing that is maybe keeping him away, not allowing him to commune with his faith as fully. You know, I like the moments in the, in the, in the Daredevil canon where Matt's faith is not only this like active presence and guide and

source of comfort, but also when it can be a little bit of a source of torment for him, you know, and the moments as we've discussed many times now where his doubt is consuming him just as powerful, often more so than when his belief is guiding him. So I was just glad to get a little bit of it. And I'm hopeful that it's a signal that we will be on a bench in front of a church with someone before too long. I think that's a great thing to hope for. I would love that. It would please me so much to see Matt inside of a church, which is not something I and atheist

thought I would ever say. But it's so key to this character, you know, so. We're down to our final category of the day, Joanna. It is the most promising or worrying, MCU Incorporation. What are you going with here? Worrying is obviously scrolls going to mention. Did. Always a worry.

Couldn't have been a scroll. Always a lot of twos. Always a worry. Yeah. I prefer we not think of. Did bum you want to not see Amelia Clark's name on the back of a director's chair in the Avengers Doom Day announcement? No. Okay.

Cool. All right. I hate to tediously bang the same drum, but I just think that the use of Yuse of Khan was so good. Yeah. Inside episode five, Mohan Kapoor as, and then like the Kamala discussion, the little Funko Pop, a little check-in knowing that she's in California, you know, a little like Young Avengers champion sort of potential tease there. I think it was an email, either an email or someone tweeted at me, I can't remember, saying that it was. It was so wild to them that we had seen Yusuf Khan in three different projects since we last saw Shang-chi. You know what I mean?

Like there's this like that use of Khan of all people. But like I think that's sort of the level, you know, it's similar to a deployment of Wong. You know what I mean? It's just like the level of light engagement that we can do. I just thought this was like a perfect little touch. We feel like we're in the same world. but it's not weighted down with a lot of continuity similar to, I mean, I don't know if you want to talk about Tony Dalton, but like I just- I thought Jack would be your pick.

Yeah, I mean, we can talk about Jack Duquesne if we want to and the swordsman footage that we get in the BB report and stuff like that. I thought that was really fun. I hope we see him again. I thought his interaction with Fisk was wonderful. It's a warning. But, yeah, but Yusuf Khan. And just like a little, you know, Kamala check-in was fun for me. That's my pick as well.

Yeah. You know, runner-up for Jack and for the Leroy's mention of Good at a scroll. But, yeah, no, my pick is episode five as well. The use of Yusuf here I thought was really, really wonderful. I thought that he and Matt were great together. Great chemistry. I also thought, yeah, fantastic. I hope we get the dinner scene after the invitation.

Yeah. That would be super fun. Can you imagine? Don't you think Matt Murdoch and Kamala Khan together would just be absolutely thrilling? Yeah, it would be incredible. And I love it too because, like, we got it. First of all, we got some regional humor, right? Like, I prefer it to Hoboken about Jersey City.

I'm iconic. She's genuinely funny. I laughed. Back in the day when I lived in New York, I had a lot of friends of both Jersey City and Hoboken, and this made me juggle. I really loved this because, you know, the, the, the, on the mat, just in general, like this idea

of like community, right, and what your community means to you and what you mean to your community. Like, we've seen Miss Marvel go to space.

You've spent to space. So there's obviously an undeniable like cosmic reach and quality to that character and that part of the story now. However, like Jersey City is a part of the Miss Marvel story. And so this idea of like the,

yeah, yeah, this like I am rooted in my community. Maybe Miss Marvel, we wouldn't fully describe as street level the way we would daredevil. But the idea of them... Go back to Hell's Kitchen, Matt. Please, Matt.

You know, the idea of them sitting around at a table talking about just the places that they live would be so rewarding and cool to see. I really, really hope that we get to see it. But I just, I love thinking about it in general. And then, yeah, on the California front, I like to think it's a trip with multiple purposes. You know, we're going to go visit Bruno at Caltech, I hope. I know Bruno hopes. And then also, yeah, we got some Cassie Lang recruiting to do, right? So that's an active itinerary for a little jaunt out west.

But it was also just like so the way that he's just, Yusuf's so proud, right? Like the way he beams when he talks about his daughter, I just really love all of that. And I got to say, I want a Marvel Spotlight Special now of Kate Bishop and Kamala Khan on a road trip across the country to California. California. Dare to dream. Give it to me. Dare to dream. I hope that Lucky the Pizza Dog will be accompanying them.

No updates. It's been how many days since we've got an update on Lucky the Pizza Dog? I want to award Yusuf not only for his acts of bravery, but for delivering my single favorite line of the season so far. Standing in front of the vault, not knowing how to open it, stalling for time, as Matt said, but probably also making, I think, a sincere request. Actually, could I please request if you could get me a snack, just a granola bar or maybe a banana? Very, very, very Mallory coated, except it would be like, can you give me some string cheese?

And before every pot. Actually, can I please request if you could get me a snack, just four string cheeses from the fridge and ten high chues? This was just fantastic. On the candy front, I love when he like holds up the buttercatch bowl and then just like rattles it slightly so that Matt will know where it is and can reach out and grab one. It's really good. Also, on that point, great reaction from Charlie Cox when he tasted the candy. He's like, ooh! Yeah.

But, you know, how did Matt get down to the vault to help? How did Matt open the vault? How did Matt manage to return the diamond at the end? Yusuf knows that something's up with Matt Murdoch. And that's fun to think about too. So this was all just great. Wonderful stuff. Didn't think that it would be possible

if Jack returned to our lives for anyone to top them. And yet here we are. I think that I am, I think the reason that I'm like sort of defensive, worried about people not liking five is because Disney was like worried about people not liking five,

which is why they double dropped those episodes, right? They were worried that people would see this standalone bank robbery episode and be like, this is your daredevil. It's not what I want, right? And so they gave us six as well. But, like, yeah, I just, I think this is great.

And more of more of this, yes. Agreed. More bananas, more granola bars, more candies. More devlin? More yes. Please call Jen. Get her on the show. Oh, Jen.

I miss her. Okay, we did it. Anything else? Anything else that you want to highlight? I am, like you, like you, like, You know, I'm always, I always want the thing to be good. So I really hope that eight and nine sort of blow my socks off and turn me around on the show. And I will miss you next week when I am gone.

But I'm really grateful to the folks who are filling in. And when you get back, it's last of us time, baby. And dare double finale time. We'll wrap all that together. Yellow Jackets finale. We have a busy week. Got a lot to do. Well, all the more reason to fuel up on bananas, the potassium will help us.

Is that how potassium works? I don't know. Joanna, thank you. You're welcome. Thank you for you doing this, even though I'm not there to do it in person. It's wonderful to see your beautiful face, to sense your presence through the Zoom screen. Thank you to our wonderful producers, Steve Allman. John Richter, always the best. Did they finish out yet,

figure out yet another new remote slash studio setup for us? I'm out of the void. The mere moments of notice, they did. They're the best legends always. Also, happy fucking birthday to Steve Allman. Happy birthday, Steve Allman. Happy birthday, Steve. Thank you as well. And as always, to Arjuna Ramgapal for his production supervision and Jomea

Deneron for his work on the socials. we will see you. Together, in two weeks for the Daredevil finale, I will see you next week for a check-in on Daredevil episode eight, Yellow Jackets, episode nine, Black Mirror Season 7. Could it have been a scroll? Goodbye.