House of R - 'Deadpool & Wolverine,' Downey as Doctor Doom, and the State of the MCU | House of R

Episode Date: August 13, 2024

They're about to make a name for themselves, here! Mal and Jo put their claws on and dive into the success and fun of 'Deadpool & Wolverine'! They dive into their opening snapshot and issue their favorite things that came out of the summer's billion-dollar blockbuster (10:51). Later, they hand out some awards for the film (01:05:07) before discussing the state of the MCU after Comic-Con and D23 (01:09:03). Hosts: Mallory Rubin and Joanna Robinson Producers: Steve Ahlman and John Richter Additional Production: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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You were always a wrong guy. Until you were. You were an X-Man. Fuck that, you were the X-Men. He was a hero in the world. Mine people, but my entire world is right here in this picture. Two House of R. We are once again on opposite sides of the state, but together over a recording.

I'm Joanna Robinson. That's Mallory Rubin. And we're here to do a big picture look at, but not big picture, T.M. with Sean Fantasy and Amanda Dobbins, a large lens look at Deadpool and Wolverine several weeks later and the state of Marvel

after San Diego Comic-Con D-23. We're basically doing a big Marvel catch-up. We've not been able to engage. We were a little busy with dragons. So here we are with a belated sort of Marvel catch-up. Deadpool and Wolverine is a billion-dollar move. we thought maybe we should talk about it. Mallory, how are you feeling? How are you doing?

We made an educated wish that this plan would work out. And look at all the little news hooks we got the last couple days and weeks. Wonderful stuff. I am feeling okay. You know, it's great to be with you. I miss you, but I'm also glad that you're in a place that brings you joy. And it's just nice to start my week seeing your face, seeing Steve's face, being back together even from afar. You know, what is distance really. It's all the void. So I'll find you no matter where you are. That's how I am. The void from Loki season one episode five. Yeah. I wear a Loki shirt today. I was like, what shirt should I wear? I guess I do. Then I remembered like after I sat down that I actually have a TVA shirt. But who could be bothered to stand up and change? Not me. Sounds like too much effort.

Okay. Speaking of effort, we got a lot going on, of course, around the ringer verse. It is a bye week for the Midnight Boys. Beep-bue. Give them a little, a little rest of Mail relaxation after this crazy summer of content. Mallory and I are not arresting. We're doing this. And also later this week, we're doing a House of the Dragon book Look Ahead plus awards, plus mailbag sort of thing. Season wrap, yeah. Season wrap, general.

Not ready to leave Westeros just yet. Hobbes and Dragons at Gmail.com. If you have thoughts and feelings about episode 9 that aired last night or anything else that you want to share with us, just kidding. We have a lot of emails, so don't stress yourself about sending you. emails at the billback. We have a lot of emails to you guys already. But if you're like, I have a take that no one's ever heard of, hobbs and dragons at gmail.com. We'll also be doing, you know, our fall hype meter. We'll be dropping next week. We're getting really excited for... Next week is a one week pod for us. Yes. That's our... That's our getaway and relax week. And so we're...

We're getting the head on the old hype meter and then you won't be hearing from us for a few days. But then we'll be back. Rings of power. Which is upon us. My goodness. So we're turning to the Earth. So excited. Can't wait. Over, I mean, just because the Midnight boys are taking a little breather, it doesn't mean over the reverse. It's all quiet on the Western Front. Buttonmash is doing Borderlands.

Everyone's favorite movie. Video game and adaptation. No, I'm really excited. It's a great crew. Rob Mahoney, who's going to be guessing on that pod was giving me some previews some of his Borderlands takes. So I think you're wanting to tune in for button match to button match for that. Also, the Mentonet to Match for that. So the Mint Edition crew is going to be checking on Alien Romulus.

Mallory, we won't get to see it together. You've seen every alien movie. Yeah. Are you going to be getting the bucket, the alien bucket? No, I don't think so. Too scary. Too scary. What about the Beetlejuice bucket?

Have you seen the Beetlejuice popcorn bucket? I think I've, when I brought home the Dune Popcorn bucket, which was to me an essential thing to have in my life in my home, I did have to confront how I think I'm, I think I'm approaching the like how much spare shelf space do we have for merch point of my life. So if I get into a, no, I think I, it's not going to stop me to be clear. But I did have to confront like, is the popcorn bucket collecting a thing that I will embrace in full or will I be more selective? I think I might be more selective.

Part of the sad thing about not being at the front wave of Deadpool and Wolverine movie going because we were riddled with COVID. and I'm sure you'll still hear some of the COVID brain fog that we're hearing its head today, folks, as we work our way slowly back to full strength. You know, I didn't get that popcorn bucket. And that's a sad one because that one I wanted. I got to find that still.

I feel like it's not too late for you and we can find you a deadpull and Wolverine bucket. But who knows? Because a lot of people wanted to go see this movie, and I'm sure plenty of them had some popcorn while they did so. Is this a popular film? How can folks make sure they don't miss the Borderlands takes, the Alien Romulus,

takes, fall height meter, everything that's coming from us and all of our pals. Here's what I'd recommend. I would recommend you follow the pods. On Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts, hit that button on House of Ar and Ringervorverse. While you're at it, pop over to the Ringervorverse YouTube channel and subscribe to that channel because you're going to get full video episodes of House of Our and Midnight Boys on that channel. We are, you know, not in the studio together, but has that stopped us from being on video?

No. Are we both like, we need to figure out some stuff about our remote setups? Yes. Will this be a journey that you share with us in real time? It will. I was going to say, this is going to be like, Mallory and I both have plans to redo our offices. I mean, me is really actually like due in the first place because I never unpacked in here. So you can watch us like slowly create a more conducive environment behind us on, on our various video calls. And like, please share all of your supportive thoughts and opinions about our decor. Okay, spoiler warning. Yeah. Wait, I didn't say, follow the socials while you're at it, right? Check out the ring or verse Instagram, Twitter, TikTok because while we were all together in person, what a, what a rich and vibrant time

that was to create social content. And guess what? I'm going to keep creating. You think Jomi is going to stop making social goodies for all of you because we're in different parts of the state? No. No. And as Joe noted, when talking about the House of the Dragon Seasoner app, the inbox is open, but keep the emails coming for everything. Start sending us your rings of power season two emails. Send us your hype meter. What are you looking forward to most in the fall air quotes? Because no, this will not be the first hype meter where we follow the actual calendar when talking about a season. We're going to figure out when we want that season to be in a few days. Probably late Thursday night. Send your emails about what you're looking forward to most in August, September, October, November,

better, keep them coming. Okay, back to you. Back to you, Joanna. I would say Thursday, mid-afternoon, we'll be fine. Thanks, Mal. Okay, listen. Yeah, yeah. I'm so glad you've adopted my newscaster transitions.

Back to you. Back of the studio. Spoiler warning today. Deadpool and Wolverine. Guess what? It's been out for weeks. We're going to spoil it. We've seen it.

You've probably seen it. We're going to talk about the whole thing, everything that happens. every disgusting death, every, you know, winky, fourth wall breaking joke, et cetera, et cetera, is on the table today. Also, in terms of, like, the large rooms, you basically were splitting this episode and half. We're going to do half Deadpool and Wolverine. We're not doing a deep dive mostly because, like, Deadpool and Wolverine is not asking for a deep dive. There's not a lot of meat on those, like, adamantium bones, you know? It's just like...

And because the film came out three weeks ago. I was going to say that. And because the film came out three weeks ago. It's not particularly fresh. So we're going to do like a, you know, a jaunty little, you know, half an episode trip through Deadpool and Wolverine. And then we are going to talk about MCU news out of Comic Con and D23. And again, we're not going to, in terms of spoilers, we're just going to be talking about like, you know, sort of what's out there. We haven't seen any of this.

We're not, you know, spoiling any of it. We're just going to be talking about, like, news. Like we have not had chance on Mike, I think, to talk about Robert Dynette Jr. Correct. Coming back to the MCU, that's kind of a big thing that happened. We haven't. Sure is. You haven't been graced with our opinions yet.

So we're going to hit you with that in this episode. Let's get to the quick facts about Deadpool and Wolverine. This film was directed by Sean Levy and written by Deep Breath, Ryan Reynolds, Rett Reese, Paul Wernick, Zed Wells, and Sean Levy. probably all of them breaking some rule or other of the WGA strike, if we're being honest. This is 120, a zippy 128 minutes. And it made over a billion. That's a billion with a B dollars in the last few weeks. It's a lot of money.

It's a lot of money. Where do you think this is going to net out, box office-wise? I don't know. What was your theater like? So we both saw it this weekend. What was your theater like on a, you went Saturday morning? Sorry? Saturday mid-morning.

My theater was empty. but that was by design. I was like, I sort of looked at showtimes and seat grids looking for as few people as possible. I'm back into my, I was incredibly sick for a really long time and I'm trying to avoid contact with a ton of other people as best I can for us. This is just where I am now. How about you? What was your crowd like?

I would say the five other people in the theater seemed to be having a great time, though. Oh, yeah. I had about like 10 other people in the theater, I would say. We were all having a pretty good time. I, you know, I am sad that we didn't get to see this. in a packed theater with like a huge crowd that were sort of all in. I think that would have been really fun. But yeah, so given that, I mean, I also saw it on a weekend morning.

So I don't know like if that's any indication. But I have been to like a couple weeks later certain phenomena films like Dune or something like that where like every screening is still packed. So I don't know. I think we're going to start to see it Peter. No pun intended out. Can the whole pod be about Peter? I don't want to tip any of my takes. Everybody loves Peter.

Oh, man. Let's do the opening snapshot, which is somehow different from the quick facts. As we just mentioned, this film made over a billion dollars as of this recording. Quick facts about that is the first superhero movie to cross a billion since Sony and Marvel's Spider-Man No Way Home two and a half years ago. And the first Marvel Disney MCU movie to make a billion since Avengers Endgame in 2000. 2019. Shish. Wild.

That is wild. On the critical fan response front, since I've just decided to re-engage my, like, anti-Rotent Tomatoes stance, and I'm just going to bring you these data points. It got an A on cinema score, which is, you know, like, comparable to the audience scoring Rotten Tomatoes. And a 3.7 on Letterbox, which I'm saying is sort of comparable to the critical score. So, you know, that'll tell you, like, where the audience versus, like, critical divide is. the critics are like, this movie is okay-ish. I kind of liked it. And the audience seems to be like, fuck yeah.

So that's sort of where we're standing on this particular film. Which brings us to our overall impressions of Deadpool and Wolverine. Mallory Rubin, hey, maybe your best shot. I had a great fucking time at the movies. I had a great time at the movies. I really enjoy the Deadpool films. I enjoy the shtick. And I was pretty excited about this based on the framing of the trailers and the marketing of like we are taking the piss out of Marvel and we are spoofing a thing that you all love and that we take seriously and that we are still actively in the midst of though tweaking in real time.

Obviously some of the particulars of like how the TVA was going to come into the story. what, if any, plot mechanic would be at play, et cetera. You know, that that was revealed to us in full to the extent that it could be while watching the film. But I was, I don't know that there was a stretch where I went more than a few minutes without really laughing. Like, I had a great time. I had a good time with the pals I went to see it with.

It did not necessarily work its adamantium claws into my heart and soul in the sticky fashion that the best MCU fair can and does and has. But I don't mind that. And I think actually that's sort of what we need right now is a div we talk a lot about the genre variance at the heart of the Infinity saga's success. And variance can come in many forms. And tonal variance is variance too. And I think this was like a sorely needed, just refreshing couple hours at the multiplex with my pals. Let me tell you what else I've been enjoying other than seeing the film. Catching up on our colleagues' takes. I'm not sure that I have enjoyed a podcasting moment more in the year 2024.

I mean this. Then listening to Chris and Andy on the watch, they also were on a considerable delay, much like the House of Ar for what the film came out. And obviously their takes are nuanced and everybody should go check them out. But Andy, Andy's opening snapshot, in essence, being and I realized it would, I'd be okay with dying. It would be okay to die. Was my favorite podcasting moment of the year so far. I was in tears listening to Chris and Andy talk about this movie. If everybody hasn't checked it out yet, Big Pick and Midnight Boys did a

crossover pod. Steve, who like us was riddled with COVID at the time, had to miss it. So Steve, if you've got to make sure you're just, you're desperate to rip off today, you know, keep that mic hot bud jump in whenever you'd like that's my overall feeling about the film and the experience of consuming it i had a blast joanna what did you think of Deadpool and wolverine and when will you've already you've moved beyond my suggestion to make the whole pot about peter but i would like to issue a follow-up suggestion can the entire podcast if not uh peter central pursuit can the entire podcast be about dogpool yes dog pool dog pool stuff go is that dogpole stuff go is that all the prompty want. Honestly, yes. Okay.

We will definitely get... No, I want... Lick my cinnamon ring clean go. I definitely want to talk about Johnny. We will get to Peterpool and Dog Pool. What about the cinnamon ring? You and I... It's so funny. You and I had a text of change where I was like, hey, I had a fun, fine time of the movies. You're like, me too, same. I think our fun, fine time of the movies were, like, slightly different. I'm not quite as high as you are on the

I'm delighted you had such a good time. I still would describe it as I had a fun, fine time with the movies. I have notes. I definitely have notes. My expectations were like pretty low based on like what a lot of our colleagues thought. I knew that like, but I had friends who had a great time too. And so I was like, okay, like let's try. Let's try as much as possible to turn off my critical brain.

I was really trying and just be like, okay, this is just, all this is claiming to be is pure synthetic butter popcorn in cinema. Like, that's all it's trying to be. So let's try to meet it at its level and, like, turn off my criticism. And I had, like, a really good time with it. The Deadpool's shtick is not my favorite. Right. Has never been my favorite.

But I thought the Wolverine stuff was really, really good. I thought Deadpool was as good as it could be. And I agree, like, this is a great time to take, you know, cracks at Marvel. Like, the next sort of prompt on. here is sort of like what this mean for Marvel and they needed this box office win and even more than that they needed to let everyone know that they had the self-awareness to allow like every all the shit that we're talking they're like yep and we're going to put it in a movie and so it's harder for us to be like they don't know that the multiverse isn't working they're like we know the multiverse

you know like stuff like that so like I thought all that stuff worked really well I thought they we're going to talk about the Logan, like the film Logan, like how they dealt with all of that. I thought that stuff was like there's a lot of really smart moves in here. I think the thing that doesn't work for me personally with Deadpool is like there's some clever. It's not, I don't think it's dumb. I think they're clever moves. I think they just always want you to also pat them on the back every single time they make a clever move. And I'm like, you could just let the clever move stand.

And there's like, and that would work for me. Wolverine stuff worked really well for me. I thought the villains were great. I had such a good time with the villains in this movie. And yeah, it was just, it was quite fun. I think I wish the action had been better. The action was creative often, but like very CG dependent. And especially when we get the like the Fox team of like Electron Gammon and X-23 and Blade Fighting.

That was just like a lot of like nonsense. to sort of, you know, like, for sure. You know, and so I was just sort of like, there's a lot of really good ideas on the action front in this movie, and I would have loved to have seen it sort of executed at a high level,

the way that we see, like, sometimes with like, we're going to talk about Daredevil a little, you know, like sometimes in the MCU see like really good action. I think it could have been like really, really good, clever action in this movie if, you know.

I was more enthused about the smaller set pieces. Like, I think my two favorite fight sequences of the film were Logan and Wade fighting for the first time in the void and getting to like see Wolverine dig the claws into the ground before launching. Wolverine on all fours. And then genuine thrill. Wolverine on All Forres is tremendous. And then inside a Honda Odyssey. And then inside the Honda Odyssey, which was I thought excellent.

I agree that the larger team up sequences were not necessarily the parts of the movie. that we'll stick with us. What does you think of the bye-bye-bye? What do you think of the dance pool and using Logan's skeleton for what do you think of that set piece to open the film? My goodness. I mean, we can let's save that for, we're going to talk about how they handled Logan in a second. Just one last week before we get into sort of the larger conversation is quick rankings check-in. You're a big fan of Deadpool in general.

How would you rank the three Deadpool films? I think right now I would go one. is my favorite, then three, and then two. But I could see this one shooting to the top of the ranking on a rewatch and with some time because I was so fond of the Deadpool Wolverine pairing and of the two limited but precious time that we got with Hugh Jackman in this movie, with Wolverine in this movie, that I like, I could see this rising to the top, ultimately. I think I'm the same.

I think I'm the same ranking one three, two. Yeah. And two, I just like really have had no interest in revisiting. One, I've watched a few times. Two, I think I've rewatched like a couple times, but it's just I really didn't like have a great time with that movie. But yeah, I could, we'll see on rewatch like how I feel about three in the future about sort of where I am right now. And then where does this rank for you amongst the post end game movies? Like, where is this?

I know there's a lot of them. I know there's a lot. But like, I mean, so I'll give you my top three, I guess. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

As always, standard, House of our caveat, fine print before a ranking. I reserve the right to change my mind at any point. I will not be bound by the ranking that I issue.

Don't hold my history against me. I, my top two is unchanged. My top two is still no way home in Guardians, volume three. Yeah. Those were just

meaningful, memorable, going experiences. But I think I would put this third after those two. I was looking, I'm like, what, phases four and five, which other films have to claw past Deadpool and Wolverine to hold onto that third spot? I didn't, I didn't necessarily feel like subsumed by guilt moving anything else out of the top three.

But I think that's where I am right now. How about you? What would your top three, top five be where you slot in this broadly? Yeah, I mean, I know that I enjoyed Black Widow most of most people did. And I also really enjoyed far from home. So, but I would, I think this is at least, at least number five or near the top five somewhere. It's definitely up there for sure. And again, as we said, like, definitely like what was needed right now, for sure.

Like, Marvel must be feeling, I know they're feeling great. because they've not been in a good place, and we'll talk about that a little bit later. And, you know, fucking, I know that Sean Levy's feeling great because he's giving a million triumphant interviews everywhere he goes. But like Sean Levy and Ryan Reynolds, both, I believe, as has always been the narrative with Deadpool, had to sort of fight to make this happen, you know?

And so the fact that they got their way and kudos to like Feige and the rest of them for, you know, seating ground there. And it's a smashola. Their instincts are always right with this particular property. So there you go. And it's funny because, you know,

Ryan, I think it was on the Tonight Show. Ryan Reynolds was like, you know, Jimmy Fallon says, I'm like, are we going to get like dead before or whatever? And he's like, oh, God, no. Right? And incredible. Is that what? Is that something he just said, like, opening week or something like that as a joke or what have you?

Or is he only interested in playing Deadpool as, like, a part of future movies? Like, I can't imagine a world in which Deadpool doesn't show up in, like, Avengers, you know, team up movies and stuff like that. But I can also not imagine a world in which Bob Iger doesn't, Robert Iger doesn't, like, you know, shake down the money tree to try to get a Deadpool for. happen. Totally. Much to Happy Hogan's chagrin, there is absolutely no future in any timeline, sacred or otherwise, time ripped or otherwise, in which Deadpool is not going to be a part of the team ups.

There's just no way. And I can't actually wrap my mind around a future scenario where there's not a standalone Deadpool film in phase whatever. But I actually relieved that there may be taking a beat to think about what that should look like and wait for the moment where it will have the most impact rather than just saying we've got to get this on the slate in two years like because. I think part of why this felt so right is because it's like, it's been a minute. It's been a minute. It had been quite a while. Pre-COVID was the last. Not just pre-R ball, recent ballot go ahead. And you know, this felt like you can't always anticipate or

choose these spots, but there's something about the nature of Deadpool, the character, the murk, the mouth, the lampooning, whatever is like the text of the moment, the fourth wall breaking, all of it, where this just felt like such an effective balm for this like collective moment of Marvel angst, even though all of the, many of the, well, we'll talk about this. Do all of the questions remain? Have any of them been answered? Or like, do we look at any of them in a slightly different way after watching this film? Or not? Is this like a, you know, you've captured something amazing in the two hours and eight minutes of the. film and then we still have to figure out how to do it elsewhere.

I think that'll be one of the interesting things when we move from discussing the movie into this larger question and looking at the slate to come. But like, I don't know, this just felt like you have a hard year, right? Your work sucks. You're busy. You're tired. You can't wait to get to the beach. And then you do.

You finally sit down and you feel the sand on your toes. And like you hear the ocean breeze and then you take a sip of your favorite cocktail. and, like, you know you have to go back to work. Only in a few days. But for that moment in time, things feel good. Like, that's what seeing this movie was like. And that definitely is not me as a person who's finally going to the beach. I know.

Projecting anything else. Works great. I was like, Mallory's already... Just so tired. Oh, with her family on a beachy locale somewhere. Okay. You guys are my family. That was one of the list of this movie.

We're going to call this next section. the meta MCU Fix Fest. Love it. We're going to just talk about this a little bit, and then we're going to go like character by character. And again, this is like a shallow little zippy tour through Deadpool and Wolverine. But I want to start with how they dealt with the shadow. It's the baby blade, right?

Yes. Start with how they dealt with the shadow of the film Logan over this movie. Because I am one of those people when they announced this movie that I was like, no, dude. I was like, worrying. The perfect send-off. It was so good. Hugh Jackman ate a celebratory bowl of pasta on a late-night show.

He was so excited to be done with the abs. And then, I don't know, I guess he did great showman and music man. And it just wasn't scratching the edge for him or they, you know, backed up too large of a money truck or whatever it is. He's like, I got to go back. And so I was like, I think that's. I mean, I knew this movie was going to be popular. I knew it was going to make a maillion dollars. That was just always going to be the case.

I didn't know it was going to be as popular as it is. And certainly Hugh Jackman has to be feeling like he definitely made the right decision. I was like, on his behalf, I was like, let this man rest. But he's like, I'm uninterested in that. Okay, that's your choice. Okay, for those of us who love the film Logan and love that beautiful poignant goodbye, because we're going to talk about Robert Derrick Jr. coming back to the MCU a little later on and how, like,

Things need to end sometimes. But the way they dealt with it in the movie was so good. Because I was just really appreciative of, they grudgingly got me when he was decimating the TVA with the literal skeleton of Logan, dug out of the grave from the end of the film Logan. And that was like brilliant and funny and great. And I'm like, they get it. It's like they're really dealing with it. What really icing on the cake for me, though, was when they showed the clip from Logan inside the TVA.

And everyone inside the TVA just stopped with gooey eyeballs and looked at it. And even paradox was just sort of like transported by the end of Logan. I thought that was just like a really, really clever way. And I mean like the way, the fourth wall break of like the way in which Wade, I and Deadpool will occasionally like blur Logan with Hugh Jackman, you know, like as if they're the same person. All of that just like really worked well for me. So yeah, what did you want to say?

Oh, to your earlier question about like the bye bye sequence. I saw this really sweet TikTok, I should have sent you, of the guy who was the dance double for the show. Guess where I saw it? Oh, on Instagram Reels. On Instagram Reels. Yeah, I actually watched it multiple times. I was completely riveted. It was so good.

So, like, I hate to shout out to the illusion for folks, but that was not Ryan Reynolds in the suit dancing to bye bye bye bye bye. But this, this, like, young, like, dancer guy, like, got a message from his agent. Like, you have to put the bye-bye-bye, you have to learn the bye-bye-bye dance and put it on tape for this misdiscan project you have to do it right now. So it's like a little time last of him like learning and fucking up the dance and learning it. In his caption, he's like, am I wearing red and black because I got a hint about what this might be?

Maybe. But he's just like, it's such a charming. So I was thinking a lot about him while I was watching the dance. I thought it was really charming. How about you? That's like, that's another thing just broadly about the experience of seeing this movie on delay, which is not our cost plan for how we consume Marvel movies. where, you know, we're obviously usually potting about them immediately.

I am always so anxious about spoilers. Like, I just want to go in and consume something in the pure, unvarnished way that it was intended to be presented to me first, which is obviously a challenge in life on the internet. But I think because we were so sick when this movie dropped and it was just really clear we would not be seeing it like anytime soon. Yeah. I just kind of like embraced a chill, peaceful attitude toward like the end. of seeing spoilers. I did have this kind of funny experience where I would just be on

Twitter and like scrolling through and I would see something. And I actually wouldn't know if it was like really from the movie or a bit. You're like is Blade actually in this movie? Or did they Photoshop Wesleyan? Yeah. I'm like, I can't tell if these are like memes and jokes or really clips from the movie. So that was kind of a surreal and funny thing. But in terms of Logan, I'm in very much the same place with it that you are. Like, that's one of my three favorite superhero movies ever. I think it's just a masterpiece. And so I was concerned in terms of the very particular impact and legacy of that film and our time with that character, but also more broadly, like what this impulse, which again, as you noted, we'll talk about more with Dr. Doom later today.

Like, what this impulse to always go back to the past represents for where we are creatively. this massive pursuit. And I was like, on the one hand as a fan of the X-Man and as a fan of Wolverine and a fan of Hugh Jackman's rendering of Wolverine, of course, like excited, but also a little bit nervous. And one of the, I had a great time of the movies, but one of the like things that was pulling on me a little bit watching it, this is not, maybe less so with Wolverine just because like, our time with Hugh Jackman is Wolverine is just this precious thing.

And it actually did feel like genuinely a gift to get to like spend a great. couple more hours with him. Ultimately, all of my concerns were just pushed to the side, and I was like, bliss, bliss. This thing was pulling on me throughout, given how many characters returned, where I was like, I feel a little bad for all of the people who were about to bring the next iteration of these characters to life. Like, there was a little bit of that for me, and it kind of varied character to character, franchise to franchise. But that was, like, on my mind a little bit. Like if you're never closing the door

and saying goodbye, there's something nice about knowing that you can have these little moments where you return to a thing that you loved, but also like if then you're a part of this new wave of like a reboot or a refresh, you feel that maybe extra pressure of like knowing somebody just got more time

with character X performer Y. And they're like, I love to this thing. So especially given that this ended with Logan's sitting at the table, it's like whoever plays Wolverine next, they're not, they can't escape the fact that Hugh Jack could just be Wolverine. I mean, the play until your 90 thing is like the

definitely will be Wolverine. Recurring joke in the, yeah, in the movie. Abs of fucking looting, he's coming back. Yeah. No, I felt that, you know what I felt that way was, I am on record as like loving X-Men first class. And then they did Days of Future Past. And I was like, you just had this really cool

refresh, restart with these characters that I really liked. and then you had to like, people love days of future past. And I'm not here to yuck their young. But that was like very much alike. You brought in the legacy actors to your new cast who just got here. Like give them a chance to be their own thing. So, yeah, it's interesting. Yeah.

Yeah. I think just on the grave and taking up the literal skeleton of our memories of a thing that we loved, it's part of why the movie I think worked for me. well ultimately is like you can't half-ass this kind of a thing you have to go all in like you have to go all in if you're and there's a recognition there i think when of inside of this movie but more broadly like what can lead to an effective spoof right what is at the heart often of good not always but often of like good satire like you have to understand not only what hasn't been working about something but why people love it like you do actually have to be able to carry both of those in balance.

And so I thought that was very present with the skeleton. And yeah, great stuff from Dancepool. I thought similar. Not a variant. Just a variant in our minds as people with awareness of Twitter and TikTok or Instagram Reels. Are, you know, I felt similarly about, oh, we'll talk about that next. But I think that there are moments.

So you mentioned the fight in the void when Wolverine like gets a clause out on all fours or whatever. I loved that. The part that sends it over the edge where I'm like, I don't need that part is when Deadpool's like, all right, nerds get out your special sock, like that whole thing where they're like so proud of the fact that they're about to give us that. I'm like,

you're about to give us something like really fun and great that I'm excited for. You don't need now to tell me that you're giving me something really great that I should be excited for because I just am. But like, as I was watching it, I was thinking, this does take like some cahones, like some audacity because like, moments like that where they're like we're about to serve you

something great something I don't love no matter what but what if that thing hadn't been great after all that would have been you know

it just takes a lot to put yourself out there and be like we're doing we're really doing it and then what if they hadn't done it they did do it

but what if they had it it you know what I mean and so I'm just like I admire that level of like commitment to your point commitment to the bit

happy Hogan the 2018 Avengers okay so we attempt to give Wolverine and Deadpool parallel poignant storylines that lead up to the like-a-virgin hand-clasping moment of like, we're going to be big damn heroes, even though our backstory says we're not allowed to be. And I would say, for me, it worked 50% of the time.

But I really, so part of that is this establishment of this scene where Wade goes to try to join the event. This is a scene that was apparently written for Robert Dyn Jr. if he wanted to do it. He did not. He was not quite ready then, I suppose, to come back to the MCA or perhaps just not interested in playing Tony Stark in that moment. But it was so as it was adapted for Favro. They were ready to adapt it for Favro as Happy Hogan. And it's metacometary, of course, of the kind of on-screen hero, the Deadpool will never be.

But also, 2018 is such a smart. This is like peak Avengers. 2018, we are right on the cusp of endgame. This is them at their most potent era. And I thought that was just like a really smart, along with all the other meta-commentary, this was such a smart thing to revisit the Avengers at their height of their like, we don't need you, Deadpool. We don't need someone like you sullying our, you know, our establishment, our team, Deadpool.

What did you think of this scene? You didn't like it. Not my favorite part of the movie just because this was one of the rare spots of the movie where the fact that the timey-wimy stuff didn't make sense was actually distracting to me. And also the character motivation,

which I wouldn't say this is a movie that's really rooted in like emotional truth and character motivation. Yeah. But this is like presented to us as you know, Wade is suddenly not enough of a giver for Vanessa

and has to go try to like do this thing to prove his worth to her himself as a hero and I'm like, I hated all of that. Yeah, it just, that was dumb. Yeah.

I just meant using, like the conduit into that. I'm like, oh, yeah. But also I'm just, I actually was just like, how did he get to a different how did he get to a different

continuity before his exposure to the TVA. I think there... Oh, God, you're right. Nothing makes sense in this movie, honestly. I mean, like, that was a part where, like, nod at me where it's, like, a lot of the other stuff. I'm like, I mean, the part for me is that... Sure, there's an answer and I just don't know it, but...

Logan... Logan dies in 2029. That's the part that, like, really... This is a strange one. Cooks my... noodle. You know what I mean? Logan died in 2009.

Okay. Anyway. Some time's got to pass for that skeleton to be in that state. Yeah. And so, like, I don't mind if he has traveled forward in time through the time door. Yep. But the TVA pulling him out in the first place feels like it means that Logan has already

died and Logan doesn't die until 2029. Anyway, again, the TVA simply ignoring the rules of the multiverse. This is sort of like what we're dealing with here. And again, this is just like, turn off your critical brain. Turn off your logic brain is what Deadpool is imploring of you. How would you say this story? I mean, you already said this. This is not a movie where we're looking for a lot of like emotional enrichment.

So like when we talk about multiversal stories that we've got in the past few years, Loki, Spider-verse, animated film. The Flash, if you prefer. Dr. Strange is the multiverse of madness. No Way Home. Something you and I talked about again and again, chiefly with Loki, but certainly with any of these movies, is this idea of like what a multiversal story involving variants can do to a character.

What does it mean to meet a version of yourself? All that sort of stuff like that. Again, this movie feels wildly uninterested in that, and that is okay with the exception of, I would say, one scene. But like, to your point earlier about like it takes all kinds of genres, like, did you enjoy the fact that you're like, yeah, but I guess a multiversal movie doesn't have to be that. Maybe it could just be like fun. Or maybe this is sort of the wacky tone that like some of multiverse of madness is going for it didn't quite always achieve. Like what do you, what do you think about that? Yeah. So I would say, I have a few different thoughts on this. I would say I was maybe like surprised by how. okay I was with all of this as I was watching because I think that's not my inclination. Actually, I get, as you know, quite hung up on this stuff typically. And so then I was trying to

interrogate like when it did bug me or like why overall it felt acceptable broadly. And I think some of that is because the multiverse is a device and a sandbox in which the film can play. And obviously like the time riper and our examination of the timeline and the anchor being and the peril that a given reality will face if it loses its anchor being. Like, this stuff is very deeply present in and ingrained in the movie. We get, like, quite a few, you know, Deadpool movies are talky movies, so it's not surprised, but we get quite a few, like... Exposition dubs.

Long, naughty. Exposition dumps. Would you say it's a lot of exposition for a three-quel? Exactly. But I think that while on the one hand it might seem odd to say like a film where reality itself is in peril, like was content to make the stakes feel smaller. There was like something intimate deliberately about it, right? Some of it is just like Wade holding up the Polaroid and being like, I'm doing this for these nine people, like the only people in the world I love. Like I actually am not really thinking about the structural integrity of the timeline. The fact that like I think some of the movies where that actually might have been more useful did have this like either because we as fans and consumers of the multiverse saga or because of the actual intention of the movie pan out and like attempt to achieve more.

And then they feel small inside of that. That feels like a letdown. but like the this felt calibrated right the thing we got was the thing they wanted to give us like that I do think makes a difference on how you receive then what is presented to you I did have of course like because we're consuming this connected story I did find it at some points like difficult not to think okay what's Loki thinking about all this just based on where we leave Loki where it is it is not yeah it's hard not to think about that and that is, I think, distracting no matter how fully realized one specific slice of the universe feels to you.

Do you know, I actually think it was, and as much as I love her, a little bit of mistake to put B-15 in here? Because, like, as the, other than the sort of visual aesthetic of the TVA, the, like, main connection between Loki, I mean, Eliath and the void and all in stuff, too, but, like, in terms of, like, personnel. cements. This is after the, we shook up our corporate structure. Yeah. We know that Loki's sitting on a time throne right now.

You know what I mean? Like, yeah, I was thinking about it too. That's tough. And I think that's just like one of the things that the movie can't solve from Marvel. That is where we are. And you can make fun of the multiverse and say that the films aren't working all you want. It doesn't change the fact that like

Loki's going to be in our mind when we're watching this and when we're watching stories to come. Something like the Deadpool core, like how that's deployed in the film. It gives me, I laugh. I'm like, holy fuck, that's a lot of blood on the inside of the bus windows. Astonishing. It gives me none of the thing you identified that, like, I think we gravitate toward in a multiverse story. Like, what is Wade learning really from those encounters? Nothing from a nice pool. Nothing from, you know. That's a sponsor. I can't wait a talk about nice pool.

I'm assuming nice, but we'll come up and wigwatch TM with Joanna Robinson TM. Actually, frankly, I can't wait. I can't wait. I'm confident to know that that's coming. I do think we got some of that. What can you're, what can confronting your variance or what can showing us your variance tell us about your character? We did get that from Logan. Exactly.

And like that was much more effective. So to have a little bit of that thematic richness inside of the bloodbath show. That's what I'm saying is like, I think without Logan, this movie works like far less for me. But like, yeah, Logan giving. us and Laura really giving us like that, that richness was really well-earned. I will just shout out this one thing. Again, I'm actually hoping that the response to this movie, similar to sort of like how the time travel doesn't necessarily like really make sense in Avengers Endgame and especially like when some of the time shenanigans you have like the director saying one

thing and the writer saying one thing and they're not being consensus. I think a lesson from this movie is sort of like, if it's entertaining enough or emotional enough or whatever, don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. The Polaroid of his found family, it's a classic Back to the Future technique, which is, of course, one of Kevin Feige's favorite movies of all time. But like, but yeah, here's what Reed Richards says in Dr. Strange. He says, quote, the larger the footprint you leave behind.

the greater the risk of an incursion. I would say that this movie has trampled all over a certain timeline in terms of like bringing Laura and Logan into a timeline where theoretically there's another Laura and Logan running around somewhere, like all sorts of stuff. And you just have to like actively not think about that or else you're not going to have a fun to find any time in the movies, right? or an incursion is imminent upon this timeline. Let's talk about Wolverine.

Let's do it. I will say, we're going to talk about the variance really quickly. I just want to skip ahead. We already tease this. I will just say that I have this in the nose, down in the lower section, but I think my favorite moment of the whole movie, the only time of the movie,

other than the closing montage, which did get to me in a sort of like, I lived this kind of way. was the Laura Logan pre-battle conversation. And that's the moment you alluded to where, like, we do, I mean, X-23 isn't a variant, but, like, you know, is-ish. But her talking about a variant of the Wolverine that we're meeting here, she's like, this is what my Logan was like. He was always the wrong kind of guy until he wasn't, you know. Yeah.

That got to me, man. It seems great. It was so good. So that was my favorite Wolverine-based moment of the movie. Same for you. Yeah, I loved that. I thought it was great. And again, it feels like important to spend some time recognizing what our attachment to the thing is in the first place before there are a lot of other scenes in the movie making fun of it or that at least exists and have the oxygen to,

to exist because at some point something has gone wrong elsewhere. Like to allow that variant of Logan who we find in this like shattered, hopeless place to like latch on to some belief that he can do something of consequence that he can help. Actually, you're not going to be able

to go back and like save the people you love and like fix that. That happened. And like I liked the moment elsewhere in the film where it's like, if we did that, then you wouldn't be the person who just did this thing. And like, let me just confident myself and say, thank you for being there B-15. You had a great, you had a great moment when he said that.

Also, B-15 and Peter, like, I ship it and I'm here for it. So that was just wonderful too. And so we did have those emotional moments of impact. And yeah, the fireside chat. I really, I really loved. Anything you want any one of the variants you want to shout out, I imagine. I mean, Henry Cavill. Again, this is stuff that like I knew.

was coming, but I had a great time with. I laughed. The shot at D.C. Like, it was funny. Yeah. When he reloaded his arms the same way that Henry Cavill does in the Mission Impossible movies in order to get his claws out. Great.

No complaints. Very good. Yeah. Old Man Logan. Patch, age of apocalypse, all kinds of great stuff. I did not think that in the sort of like void space inside the void space inside of Logan's head, the field with the fog and the pile of. I did not think that that tragic backstory made a ton of sense to me, but it actually almost

didn't matter because I found Emacoran in that moment so mesmerizing that like I wasn't that bothered by it. I feel similarly. Okay. Wade Wilson, aka Deadpool. What is your favorite Wade Wilson moment of the, uh, yeah. Oh, my God. I mean, it's impossible to pick.

It's just like, Ryan Reynolds is Deadpool kills me. It just, it really does. I'm such an easy mark for it. I just find it so funny. I think that like the stuff that we had seen in the trailers, you know, the pegging joke. It's not new for me, but it is new for Disney, the recurring cocaine bit, all of that stuff.

I found even though I had seen it in the trailer, it's just hysterical in the movie. You know, I certainly loved everything with our Deadpool and dogpool, that was special. That was great. It was really great. Really love dog pool. Did you have a favorite moment?

His little like collapse, knees together collapse at the end when like dogpool shows back up right at the end when they're eating swarma. Tremend. Great stuff. You know, and I, on the less joky but more kind of like emotionally charged front, I will say, despite everything that I've said to this point about how moments. Wade's motivations may not really like, heighten the experience of watching the film. I'm always a sucker for a, you think I'm going to let you be the one to do it,

but then I'm going to go do it moment. Always a sucker for it. And even though there was nothing surprising about it, it's like, of course that's what's about to happen. It's odd, though, because it was slightly better done than a moment that you and I loved and wept over, which was the Loki Long Walk at the end. Because do you remember when that happened?

And I was like, why aren't Mobius and Sylvie like trying harder to get to him? And you have Logan like beating the door down. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. That's great. All right.

The villains, Paradox and Cassandra Nova and Eliath from Loki Cs 1, Episode 5. This is like genuinely top tier stuff for me. I've seen a lot of criticisms of the villains in this movie and I genuinely just don't get it. I think Emacorn is having. so much fun. I thought the design was so, I mean, like, the finger skull fucking design. I'd not to see you before. This was so good.

That's great. The way, especially when she was doing it to... I know you don't wash that hand. Well, yeah, gross. But also, like, paradox. When she's doing it to paradox and, like, his eyeballs kept, like, sort of, like, gooping around as she was doing it. Oh, my God.

So good. Also, like, how disheveled. he, like, he looked at the end of it because he had already had the, like, fucked up nose. But then his, like, hair was all fucked up and his face, like, looked saggier after she had just been like... Yeah. And then she, like, dragged him by his head. It was so good. But also just, like, even just, like, the graceful telekinetic, just sort of, like, easy...

It was just, like, an easy little joyful jaun for her to, like, sort of toss everyone around. And I just thought she was, like, so fun. And so, you know, and she, again, her backstory of, like, Charles didn't look for me or whatever. was like a little shallow and dumb or whatever, but like it didn't, I don't know, it didn't really matter to me because she was like mostly just trying to have fun and I thought was really successful. So I had a great time there.

I liked our time with Cassandra quite a bit. You know, we were looking forward to our first R-rated Marvel movie. And obviously Deadpool does a lot directly to follow through on that rating. But so does Cassandra. I mean, Cassandra just Z. Zipping the skin off of Johnny Storm. What a moment.

Slurping it up. I think you're right. Like the speed and ease with which Cassandra used her powers. It's like one of, it's that visual shorthand in a movie where you just understand the magnitude of somebody's ability because it's so easy for them to beat everybody around them and to have the upper hand. You know, how often in a Marvel movie have we gotten to hear somebody say they can't wait to flick their bean to Enya? It's just like,

I was so proud of Emacorn who like, you know, obviously like played Princess Diana, Netflix, has done a lot of like highbrow, like always dressed like oddly and stylistically on the red carpet, seems to take like everything quite artistically seriously. And I was like, I'm really proud of you for doing this. I'm really proud of you for doing this. And they seem to like really have a great time doing it. So I applaud you. I hope that we get Cassandra back.

You know, obviously this, things did not end well for. for this Cassandra, but A. Cassandra back in another film because this is a fascinating character and, you know, a character who, since the Grant Morrison, early 2000s, 2001 introduction, comic fans have really loved and been really interested in.

So fun to have Cassandra in the mix, looking forward to more. Paradox. Tell me all your thoughts about Mr. Paradox. Yeah. I mean, just wonder. Like, this is what, you know, occasionally we liked Loki a lot

and there would just be occasional, like, dry spells were just sort of, like, TVA bureaucracy could be, like, a little zippier. And I feel like with apologies to, like, characters like Dot and Run Slayer, like, this is what I want from, like, somewhat evil TVA bureaucracy. It's like the absolute slimy fun that Matthew McFadden's having here, like, that it's, um, his, like, Tom Wongansyness through the lens of Mr. Darcy stuffiness. It was just like really worked for me. I loved it. How about you? I enjoy every moment that we get to watch him perform on screen. Just as a whether it's succession or Pride of Prejudice or Deadpool and Wolverine.

He is like one of the greats of our time. And it was fun to get to watch him like do this and be weird and like that kind of haughty energy in a boot. like side quest unsanctioned TVA was like a really, I thought, fun mix. So I enjoyed it. Also, again, this was a trailer line and often I find them less potent in the actual film. But when he's like, you appeared to have soiled yourself and he's saying it like he's like describing the port he's about to offer you over your evening cigar. So casual.

Also, the speech he gives at the end where he's like pretending to care about Deadpool and Wolverine sacrificing themselves. And then they like come back around and he just goes, fuck. Like his delivery of that fuck is so good. Did you know about one in three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriotic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling? Does this sound like you? Listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away.

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Also, I should say, like, I first met it before he played Darcy. see before he was in MI5 or Spooks if you're British. And so like to see him like take that character this like you know beloved spy craft leader and then just sort of do this instead was wonderful. Okay. The section

I'm calling the Fox Force Five even though obviously that's not exactly what we're talking about here but I thought it was funny because there's five of them and we're talking about Fox. So let's start with Johnny Storm. I want to give this over to you, Malay Rubin, to talk to me about what this meant for you. I have no notes.

Yeah. I have no notes. Again, there was a part of me that's like, ah, not to have seen this in the theater without knowing it was coming, you mean? Well, no, you know, I, I didn't mind that I got any of this spoiled for me on Twitter ultimately. I made my piece with it and it was okay. It probably would have, yeah, I would have like gasped aloud, I guess, when the cloak

came off and we realized that it was a, a, a. Johnny not Cap, but still landed, still great. I thought the stinger going to a, again, full commitment to the bit and to letting Chris Evans say some of the filthiest stuff that we will ever hear in the MCU when we all expect him to like be. Language. Steve Rogers on the, yes, on the language guy, like was just a real treat. I'm, you know, I had started to kind of like form my opinions on, now obviously like Chris Evans played Johnny Storm in Fantastic Furf. I was like, that happened. So it's not the same as Marvel hiring Robert Downey Jr. to play Doom.

It's like, objectively not the same thing. But I had sort of like been processing the Downey Doom news before obviously seeing this movie. and now I'm like, has this had any bearing on how I feel about that or not? I'm trying to kind of like noodle on that. But in general, I thought this was a riot. I really enjoyed it. I feel while these prior Fantastic Four movies are not beloved, again, I have like a little bit of a pang for Joseph Quinn who's just like about about about about about how fun it was to see Chris Evans. This Humid Torch for a few minutes in this movie.

The like proximity of that, I think, feels like a little. little bit of a bummer, but you know what? People seem fucking hyped about first steps about the new Fantastic Four movies. So I don't know the new thing is going to abate or could abate our enthusiasm for that. And what a, what a time. What about you? Any, any Johnny takes? Any Chris Evans takes?

Any thoughts on, uh, no time for that. Back to the studio to me to talk about most important member. The Fox Force Five, which is Remy fucking LeBoe. All right. This was, yes, I already knew this was coming when I saw the movie. But, like, I was in Hall-Age when they announced Channing's movie, like, years ago. It has been, if you've listened to any of our X-Men 97 animated TV show conversations, you know how much gambit means to me.

It was been the devastation of my lifetime that we never got Channing. Well, have not yet gotten Channington's street-level New Orleans adventure flick. I thought the runner, the running commentary on his accent, the sling bay joke, the Minions joke, the Dialect Coach joke. killed me. I thought the moment where I think it's Jen Garner's, Electro was like, or maybe it was Blake, like, yeah, talking about all the people they saved. And then he goes, or wanted to save because he never got his own movie.

Sad. I thought the cards and the staff actually looked pretty cool in live action combat. The staff we like mostly saw from a distance, I think wisely. So comparing him to Hawkeye, how dare. Great moment. But he shows up. In the post credits, in the background of the TVA, seemingly returning to his own timeline. And something about the way that Channing Tatum has talked about it.

I was watching an interview where he was talking about, he was like, you know, a lot of people over the years have tried to help get. It was someone caught him on the red carpet for his other film that's out right now. It's just called a blink maybe, I think. Right. They were interviewing him and asking him about it. And he was like, he was like, many people have tried over the years to like help. me, like, essentially, like, get this Gambit film made. And he's like, Ryan has been, the Ryan advocated for me being in the movie.

And I think Ryan, like, I think the conversation was that the conversation they had was like, this is maybe a way to actually, like, if this movie hits and your character hits, then the MCU might make the Gambit movie that, like, we all deserve that you've been trying to get made for a million years at Fox, et cetera, et cetera. I would be thrilled. I thought he was fantastic as Gambit. I thought he was wonderful. I loved it.

I thought of you the whole time. Every second that he was on screen, I thought. Thank you. All right, we already talked about Laura, but I just thought Daphne. It's a Daphne summer. Team Jackie. Man. Great.

Crushin' up. I got emotional seeing her when she put her sunglasses on. And then I got emotional seeing. that honestly and then seeing them again on her little face and the like behind the scenes footage montage at the end. I don't know. That kind of killed me. I thought the best

joke, honestly, the joke that made me laugh the loudest and the longest of the whole movie was Jennifer Garder's Ben Affleck joke. It's fine. I laughed so much. It's fine. I thought it was so good. And I also thought her boots

and also Cassandra's boots were excellent. They gave them like slight wedges. So they're not in like healed boots that like don't make a ton of sense for action but they are like slightly wedged so they are like stylish at the same time. That was a great compromise.

I loved it. Blade. What do you want to say about Blade? I enjoy kind of all of these larger than cameos, smaller than full roles. The deployments. Like I obviously it's fun to see

Wesley Snipes's blade. I, there have been some lengthy discussions on other pods in the Ringer podcast network about, you know, trying to parse the, uh, the, and I'll be the only blade, you know, joke and like whether that felt like really alarming given the, yeah, development hell and the, um, saga that the new Blade franchise with Mahershela has been in for so long. Um, I guess like for because we do get the, you, you know, lingering look, the turn to the camera from Deadpool. It's like, it felt like of a piece to me with all of the other jokes at the MCU's expense in the film. But it seems like some people felt that that like rose to a different caliber of like maybe pointing to something like really being done and whether that felt fucked up. But I did not feel that way about it.

I mean, I don't think they would make an announcement about that project not happening via Alain and Deadpool and Wolverine. I thought of it more. I was interested, like, who is responsible for that line? And I did find this interview with Sean Levy where he said it was scripted. Wesley thought it was a little hysterical. We tried a bunch of reactions from Deadpool, but ultimately went with that eyebrow, raised, Deadpool, fourth wall breaking look.

And to me, it just felt like, what's taking you so long, Marvel? Like, where's our Blade movie? Was more my read on it, even though, yes, we do have some alarming-ish blade news, as same as it ever was in our little sort of MCU rundown that we're going to do in a second. Anything else you want to say? Do you want to talk about dogpool more than we already have? Have I given you enough opportunity? I just thought dogpole was an instant icon and I look forward to seeing dogpool again. That's my take on dog pool. Thanks for asking.

Yeah. Do you have a favorite variant? Was it a dogpool? You know, I think why not Ryan Reynolds put his whole family in this movie? I think that's fun and fine. I thought McConaughey playing the Cowboys. Deadpool was fun. I thought Headpool was fun. Like, yeah, I thought I had, yeah, great time. Let's do quick Rapid Fire Awards before we go into our MCU look.

As you mentioned, we watched TM with Joanna Robinson. TM goes to nice pool. Yeah, for sure. I mean, phenomenal stuff. Just great. Honestly, great. The edges were like a little funky, but like the, the whole thing.

And honestly, later when he called him Cafe Gratitude, that's like also another one of my favorite jokes the whole movie. I thought was great. Very good.

Yeah. Very good. Best cue the, like, best cue the slow-mo needle drop. What was the best? I don't, to me,

this wasn't close. Like the, like a prayer was an instantly iconic movie moment. Wasn't it? That wasn't my. And the slow strut? I loved it.

But it's a very good one. Yeah. I think for me, it was, and maybe this is like my, musical heart talking. But you're the one that I want from Greece playing during the Honda Odyssey fight was really good.

And what I really liked was, you know, they were like smashing up against the radio for a second. And you get like a half second greatest showman intro cue as like for the Hugh heads, for the Hugh Jackman heads, like a little, are we going to do this to the greatest showman? No, we're going to do it to Greece. But I've had a really good time with that. Van Milder, the best joke. What was the best joke for you? You know, I already mentioned that I really loved the recurring cocaine joke about Feigey, and I did quite enjoy the begging joke.

But since I've already talked about them, and since we talked about the the Jen and Ben joke as well, I'll go with, you know what I loved? I love a boner joke. And I really like the 206 bones in the human body. Or when you're watching Gossip Girl. That was really funny. That's my pick. How about you?

Yeah, I feel like I'm cheating because I did blow it by saying the Jen and Ben joke was my favorite. And it was still pick it. You can still pick it. I think I still have to pick that. Yeah, I really do. Especially Sean Levy was saying that like, someone asked about the divorce people joke because there's like the one about huge. Jackman letting himself go after the divorce too that's in the movie.

He's like, we ran all the divorce jokes past the people. Like, no, divorce jokes got in there without. He was like, no, we didn't ask Ben about the divorce joke, but we did have to ask him, like, to use the daredevil footage that we used at the end of the movie and the montage. So we did talk to Ben. Not about that joke, though. So I'm just sort of like, I don't know. I just, Jen Garner, you are forever an icon and I love you forever.

All right. We're bringing you back. I don't know why. Secrets Girl Watch. I thought we were done with this. This was a shock to see in the outline. I just thought it would be fun if there were a secret scroll in this movie. Who would it be?

I think it has to be Peter. Oh. The way that he is able to insert himself into so many different situations and his beloved and earns trust and exposure. I'm going Peter. Okay. Yeah. I'm not going like somebody in a position of power or authority. Just going Peter.

There for the hang. That's when you really get the good stuff. that's when you get the dirt. Yeah. What about you? I'm going with, and I'm sorry, I did not look up his name.

The TVA employee, who has eyes only for terrible. Great stuff. That was very. I'm sorry he lost his mug to a time door incident, but here we are. Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot the part where, like,

Cassar just pulled a sling ring out of her pocket. She's like, here we go. preferred we stuck with the tempads. Getting the slingering into the mix was a lot. That was a lot. All right. That brings us to this breezy, breezy tour we're going to do through recent MCU news. We're not going to like break down trailers frame by frame, particularly because we were not at ComicCon. We were not in the room. Again, vibes only today. But elsewhere in the MCU, we should say, so just to set the stage for really quickly before we get to this Downey moment, which is where we're going to start, obviously.

Bob Beiger has started to say on earnings calls, like very plainly, like, quote, we lost some focus. You know, we're pulling it back. Like the pandemic hit. We were leaning into a huge increase in how much we were making. And he says, then he said, I've always felt that quantity can be actually a negative

when it comes to quality. And I think that's exactly what happened, as if he himself wasn't the one who set the mandate for Disney. Incredible retconning from Bobbush. as if he's not the one who said turn on all the content taps we're doing Disney Plus. That's okay. So we're pulling back. So as we look at the schedule going forward, we're seeing far fewer releases.

Right. The studio had 33 major releases put out in 2023 alone across all facets of their subsidiaries. That is insane. So all that's to say, the stocks, the Disney stock is down. Iger is admitting fault on earnings calls. Times are tough. It's not just like, you know, fanboys are grumbling on the internet.

This is affecting the bottom line. Then we get Downey and the Rousseau's reassembling at San Diego Comic-Con. The Rousseau's who swore they were done with the MC will be back for two Avengers movies. And Robert Dine Jr. who swore he was done with the MC will be back to play Doom. Here's a couple questions. And then back over to radio with the studio, Valerie. Will he be Victor or Tony Stark variant through?

who through one life-altering circumstance or another developed into the supervillain Dr. Doom? Yeah. What do we think of the new mask same task tagline? Do we think that what that means is that this Dr. Doom, like Tony Stark, is actually thinks he's trying to save the world. And in doing so creates some sort of calamity or another that pushes him into antagonist territory. And how do we feel about Downey returning to do this versus how we would feel if they undo Tony's death in Avengers endgame somehow Tony Stark returned that Tony Stark. Tony Stark, should we call him? So Molly Rubin, Robert Donnie Jr.

Go. I'm still processing this. I have some pretty complicated feelings about this. I'd like to separate the Russo brothers and Downey because they feel. pretty different to me. I think on the one hand, the thing that's the same is this larger question of like,

what does it mean for the MCU to feel compelled to like go back into the past, keep pulling buckets up from the well that you know worked, play the hits, and will the hits work? Maybe, probably. Does it mean that you're not trying new things or that you're like capped creatively,

potentially so? So in that sense, of course, they're inextricable from each other. The Russo's coming back. I'm kind of like in favor of. On the one hand, I hope that this does not signal that the MCU powers that be

are like less interested in giving different directors chances to make movies that feel distinct to their style. That's a worry. Because whatever the response has been to some of those films, I don't think it would be fair to say it is always because of what the directors do with the movies.

It's much more the design of the machine and how all these things relate to each other. So I hope we still get to see like those distinct styles and fingerprints from different filmmakers. The Russo Brothers made Winter Soldier Civil War, Infinity War and Endgame, and those movies

fucking rule. So like I'm not upset about them coming back to direct two more Avengers movies. I'm certainly not surprised by it despite whatever anybody said at the time half a decade ago and before all of the other movies that they have since made. Their desire now, you know, more than half a decade since end game to return.

If you read the variety report and I'm sure other reporting that will come out over time, they're getting a hefty paycheck to do this. All of this makes sense to me and I feel like they have a genuine knack, not only for the grand scope and the spectacle of an Avengers movie, but as we've talked about it and chronicled at length many times on many prior pods, I think they have a real gift for balance inside of the team up films and how to, how to like parcel out scenes, figure out scene pairing, some of which you might know you want, some of which might surprise you and like find that real chemistry inside of character groupings and sets and then the balance across the film.

I think they have a gift for it. So I have less complicated feelings about the Russo Brothers returning. Before you get it downing, can I just add on to that take? So the machine is in total across those films that you mention is Joan Anthony Rousseau and then it's Chris from Marcus and Stephen McPhilly as the screenwriters. To my mind, equally important in terms when it comes to balancing the equation of the team up. Steve McPhile is coming back. So it's going to be the Rousseau's and Steve Mockie.

McPhile are going to be working in these Avengers movies. Chris or Marcus apparently has said, there's not enough money in the world, I suppose, that could compel me to go back, or I don't know. So some outlets have this listed as like Stephen McPhile and Michael Waldron, a writer that we, you know, we've enjoyed his work. But I just want to point out,

this is actually my main question mark is there is no evidence of what it means for Stephen McPhile to work without Christopher Marcus. That does not exist. They've only ever worked as a screenwriting duo.

I don't know since they've worked in such close concert for so long, who supplied what in that partnership. So I don't know what we'll be missing because I don't know how to tell a Marcus element from a McPhile element. But that's a big question mark for me is like, you know, what if it was Marcus who was, I don't know, delivering the more emotional being. or what if it was Marcus who, like, knew how to perfectly balance the team-up equation or, you know, all that sort of stuff. That's, that's, like, the bigger.

I have very confident that the Rousseau's know how to work inside of all this. And to your point about, like, not hiring directors to do their own thing, I think, looking at the shape of what's to come, I think they're not willing right now to take a risk on a slightly unproven director with the idea, I think in the past. past the idea is the Marvel machine as a whole will carry this inexperienced director through to the finish line. And I think that they have found for whatever reason, perhaps because they're stretched too thin because there's so much going on or this, that of the other thing, both in television and in film. That's not really what, you know, I think they were treating these people as just sort of like cogs. And now they're like, no, these are going to have to be like bigger pieces of the machine that we need to spend like much more time investing in. Right. Or

much more, put a much more on their shoulders than we thought we had to in the past. And so you see that in some of the showrunners that they're getting for their shows or the fact that they're even calling those people showrunners in the first place is sort of this new era post-stumble that Marvel is like putting these people in position. So the Rousseau's know what they're doing and they can do that. Or like someone like Matt Shackman who like proved himself on one. Wanda Vision, like we can put him in this position and we have a lot of confidence in that. Okay, back to you for Downey. Tell me your Downey takes. Okay. So my gut real-time response to this was like, wait, holy shit, what? Oh, my God. Wow. Oh, no. That was like in like five seconds, right? And I honestly haven't, I don't think that's changed a ton with a little more distance from it. Like, I am just on. me if you've heard this before I'm a war with myself and I'm up to your minds.

Of two minds. Okay. I have. I would say zero doubt that Robert Downey Jr. will do a great job with this and that it will be good and entertaining to watch. That's actually not the question. Correct. There's just, it's almost like impossible to conceive of an outcome here where he doesn't crush this

and where we don't have a great time watching it. So like, in that sense. I guess it's hard to complain. And yet, I think it's valid to ask some follow-up questions about what this means for the state of Marvel. And that's part of what we're interested in doing today. I don't know the answers to any of the questions you asked to set the table, right? I think that's part of what's running through everybody's mind. Like the question of like, okay, you know, are we going to watch a version of Tony become Doom?

Is Robert Downey Jr. playing Victor von Doom? Are we dabbling in some like infamous Ironman territory? Like what are we doing and how? We'll find out. I also think that it was inevitable that Robert Downey Jr. would feature in some way, however big or small, in the buildup to or conclusion of Secret Wars. We were not going to do Secret Wars unless they literally could not agree at some point on how much money was going to be in that truck they backed them. He was going to appear at some point.

I think I had been assuming that we would meet a version of Tony from another universe and it would be like a almost more like a version of what we got in Deadpool, right, where a character returns and it's like either a variant of them from a different continuity or like the time is limited or something. I, as you know, and as House of our as the bad babies know, have, I try to come into a lot of this with an open mind and an open heart and then I have my lines and one of them is like you can't you can't fuck with this sanctity of of endgame in any way.

You just can't. It's because it represents much more than what happened in the story of that movie. It represents a more than decade long shared experience and a payoff on that time and investment for legions of people. You can't fuck with that. Sorry, Rodi. Rode is going. You can't talk with it.

God damn it. I don't necessarily feel like that is in peril here. Maybe it is. maybe it could be, perhaps I'm being naive about that. I don't know that Downey coming back to play a different character has to jeopardize that specifically, but of course more broadly, then we start asking these questions about like, okay, are we always going to live in the past or how are we going to move forward?

And I think like, you know, you are quite literally, you wrote the book on how all of this came to be in the first place and how many things defied expectations or shouldn't have worked but did. And we trace all of that back to just the, there are many different early moments of consequence. But like, hiring Downey to play a character who you never, ever, if you were just sketching out

how this was going to go, would have picked to start with Iron Man ever. And they did. And like, sure, it's because kids in a focus group to like the toy. But like, we went down a path that we weren't. would not have like logically decided to go down if you had just had your druthers of like the rights and the characters and all that. Okay. So I start to worry more broadly that we're closing

the door on like just not to sound too dramatic about it, but like possibility. Right. Like if the fear has taken root and the anxiety has taken root so fully that people are not responsive to receptive to the new offerings. And so let's give them. them more of or a new twist on slightly new flavor of a thing we know they love, then it is inherently going to thwart new discovery. And the propensity for new discovery is how the Infinity saga ended up existing in the first place. And so like I don't want Marvel to be, I don't want the people got spooked by the last Jedi and so we got Rise of Skywalker to come to seep into the MCU. Now again, I don't doubt for a second that Downey will play a great doom. And

that these movies will be good. Doom's Day and Secret Wars, I would be surprised if at least his role in them and more broadly, like, they're not entertaining films. I would be surprised and very disappointed. But what does it mean that we had to bring Downey back to play Doom? Doom is one of the most consequential characters in the history of comics. So not only are we like obviously pivoting from Kang in real time and like definitely shrinking then the number of installments that Doom can be in and the scope of that. And maybe in some ways that'll be beneficial. Because feeling the compulsion to connect every single thing before has not actually worked. I kind of, my suspicion, and I could be wrong, but my suspicion is that Downey's going to

play Doom in these two movies, right? Yep. But that ultimately there will be a different Doom played by a different character in the MCU going forward. I think you make excellent points. I'm going to try to like silver line it and say, I hear you and I, I hear you and I so agree with you in terms of like we can't just circle the same drain over and over again. But what's also true, unfortunately, is that a lot of their attempts to launch new characters

since endgame to now, be it Shang Chi, be it the Eternals, be it Miss Marvel, be it, she-hulk, et cetera, et cetera, has not taken root the way that they hoped it would. There are, you and I love a lot of those characters. Like we had very strong connections to a lot of those characters. So I'm not saying that's a cross-the-board failure, but I'm saying it didn't happen the way they, it didn't go the way they wanted it to go. For sure. And the way that they tried to introduce various characters, like, via, you know, and in some cases it really works. Like, Kate Bush, Bishop really worked or Yelina Belova really worked.

And, like, in those cases, you have legacy characters like Hawkeye or Natasha being the anchor. bringing those characters into the universe, passing the torch. In other cases, it didn't work as well. Like, I would say Dr. Strange is not as successful a conduit. But, like, the most successful version of an OG Avenger bringing a character into the MC or into our hearts and minds is Tony Stark and Peter Parker, right? Using Robert Dye Jr. to bring Tom Holland into everything. That's not to, like, say that Tom Holland isn't like a charisma bomb on his own, but they

really leaned on downy. to bring that character into our hearts, to make us buy into a new Spider-Man. And so the potential for them to use Downey in that role to anchor some of these other more shakier-feeling characters into our hearts and minds is something that I am hopeful about,

that that's a reason to use him. Do you know what I mean? I think that's a great point. And if that's like a, at the heart of the strategy in addition to all of the other reasons to do this, then like, I think that's valid. And obviously, we're not just talking about the next iteration of the Avengers, even though we're talking about the Avengers movies.

Like, I think we would both, obviously, Galactus is going to be the primary villain of the Fantastic Four movie. But I would be astonished if Doom is not in like the Stinger for that film. I think they've said he will be introduced to the Stinger for that film. Yeah. So then like you obviously have like this like rich and and incredibly important to many people, comics history and the connection between those characters. And like so then it's one more little tether as we are introduced to the first family and to this new group of Marvel characters. Like as we talk about these different continuities and incursions and worlds clashing and this team up and attempt to save reality and what we are like. exiting the multiverse saga, seeking to then establish and bolster. You know, it feels like obviously the Fantastic Four is a huge part of that, but how did the X-Men connect to that?

And like any little tether to a thing that people love and a performer people love watching and spending time with can maybe help make that feel more concrete. I think it's like because this is happening, you know, and again, there are so many different factors that are at play here, right? Like they didn't sit down and say from the beginning, we're going to start with King and then switch to Doom. Like that happened for other reasons. And those reasons are real.

You know, the kind of end of a saga being the place where that happens, then it really feels like it becomes about the next phase and the next saga, not this phase. But they don't necessarily need to be mutually exclusive. I suppose it's like bringing Brolin in for Reels, For real, you know, you've had Thanos in the margins and then, like, let's bring Brolin in to, like, really make sure all of this works. I don't know. I am nervous.

I think it is them exposing their belly a bit in terms of their, like, desperation, you know, for where they are. But to your initial point, which I just cannot agree with more, downy is going to be. be great. It's going to be entertaining and great. Like, whatever it is, it's going to be great. Like, is, but I think I agree with your other point, which is like, but is it the health, it's like a band-aid, but is it the, like, antibiotics we need? Like, is it the solution or is it just a band-aid to what's going on here. Yeah, a stopgap until we can figure out the larger solve. And like, look, like, check out our Iron Man Hall of Fame if you have yet. Like, Downey's Tony is my favorite character in the MCU and my favorite performance in the MCU. and it's one of the most important characters in my entire life. Like, at the most basic level, the fact that we get to spend more time with him and the MCU is thrilling, of course.

Like, how could it not be? I just am like, what does this mean in terms of their large, like, more broadly, their confidence and their creative ambition to try to figure out new solves for something that is like real? So, yeah, we'll find out, I guess. I certainly sounds like the footage that people saw of Fantastic Ford looked great. All right. So speaking of let's just like zip through some like we're just going to zip, zip through the timeline and talk about some things. So we're going to go chronologically. First things first is Agatha all along September 18th. Which stuff go? Nope, because I'm going to have so much to say about this on the fall height meter. But I mean, I don't know. There was a musical performance at D23. And Broadway legend Patty Lepon was part of it. I have known.

notes about it. The only thing I will say, in the vein of our beloved Mani Hicento on Ackolite, the fact that they're trying to tell us that Joe Locke of Heart Stopper fame is just playing quote, teen and not Wanda's son, Billy, aka Wicked, is one of the silliest things I've ever seen in my life. Though, you know, maybe I'm about to get Ralph Bonert again, who can say. But speaking of Ralph Bonner, Jack Schaefer, who ran Wanda Vision, which I love, and I love Jack Schaefer, is the showrunner on the show, and I'm very excited for... I'm hyped. I thought the most recent trailer looked great.

I'm excited to travel down the Witches Road. I love a trial. I love a test. The test where you, like, have to rebuild your coven or your found family, and you don't have your powers and how are you going to do it? And you throw in a musical element for Joe. Can't wait. This looks great.

It's going to be fun. I'm excited. Sometime in the near future, eyes of Wakanda, no exact date on it. This is like a four-episode, like, 3D CGI show that they're doing. They showed a clip of they have confirmed that Iron Fiss is going to be in it some version of Iron Fist. Anything you want to say about Eyes of Wakanda? I'm excited. I look forward to getting a date and getting to see a trailer in general.

I am quite enthusiastic about this era of Marvel animation. And I was really struck by the conversation that Chris and Anand, Andy had on the watch, I guess this was maybe coming out of Comic-Con. I actually can't remember when this was. It was fairly recently, who can say, what is time? But Chris was basically like, you think that at some point Marvel TV is just going to be animated?

It should never occur to me as a possibility. And I don't anticipate an outcome that extreme, but the success of animated shows creatively in terms of the reception among the viewers. and the number of things on the slate, the upcoming slate that are animated and seem likely to pop. Slate is pretty,

the slate is pretty full. What would you? I mean, I think X-O-97 is undoubtedly a hit. I think what-if is much more mixed. I think season one, there was more enthusiasm, certainly around what if than season two. But like the question of like,

obviously Star Wars has since moved away from this, right? Now everything that was animated needs to be live action. But like, you know, that moment. where so much of Star Wars TV was animated, and obviously we still have great animated Star Wars shows. Shout out Bad Batch.

I think it's certainly easier to say this is one universe and it's animated. You know, I think I didn't listen to that particular conversation that Chris and Andy had, but I think more along the lines of the absolutely tangled web of continuity that they found themselves snarled in by trying to keep all the plate spinning of all the live action shows and all the live action films and us trying to feel like we have to watch all of them if they instead release animated shows that maybe you can tune into or you could not and you could decide and then you don't feel quite so like harried and obligated because there isn't unless you're Star Tech Strange New Worlds, there isn't going to be a crossover that you have

to pay attention to the continuity between these animated shows and live action. Let's talk about animation. Your Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man, formerly Spider-Man freshman year coming this year, allegedly. Excited. Brad Winterbaum, who is now, like, the head of Marvel streaming television and animation, which is like a fairly within the last year new development in terms of like, Brad Winderbaum, within the last year, new development in terms of like, Brad Winderbom, who is always the one speaking on what is happening on Disney television, which was not the case. They like have sort of put their house in order and put Brad Winterbaum in charge of all of that. So what if X-Men 97, season two, Eyes of Ocana, Marvel Zombies, Your Friendly Neighborhood, Spider-Man, he said all of those, except for Marvel Zombies, will be out. in the next 18 months, which is exciting. And your friendly neighborhood Spider-Man will feature Charlie Cox's Daredevil, Dr.

Atevious, blah, blah, Harry Osborne, and Coleman Domingo, the legend, will be playing Norman Osborne, which is really fun and exciting. Anything you want to say about your friendly neighborhood Spider-Man? No, I'm looking forward to it. Captain America, Brave New World, Valentine's Day, 2025. Get your sweetheart and go to the cinema. I mean this sincerely. As you know, I recently spent a wedding anniversary of mine at the screening for a dial of destiny. There is absolutely no better way for me to spend a day intended to celebrate love and romance than with Harrison Ford.

So I am thrilled. First look at Harrison Ford as Red Hulk. Have you been able to catch any of the like on Instagram reels like footage that was recorded in the room? of this, have you seen this? How did you feel about it? I feel excited that, and I feel privileged, forget anything that actually happens in the movie. That's like totally secondary to me.

Yeah. That we get to be alive for this impending Harrison Ford press store. I just can't believe it. Do you think they got Harrison Ford in the mocha pajamas? Or do you think, all the Dial of Destiny, they had enough archival footage of Harrison Ford? face that they didn't need him to do. Great question.

I'm looking forward to finding out for sure what the answer is, but I'm guessing that he not only did the mocap suit, but that he was like, I insist on doing the mocap suit because I think the fact that he's like out on the Comic-Con stage doing the like, like, you know, can't wait to do the face and to do the, like, it just shows me he's been practicing. It shows me he's in touch with this character.

with his arc. And I just like, I mean, fuck the, the, the, the, the, the,

the, the, the, the, the, gift. A gift. A treasure. And so I just like,

I can't, I can't wait for this. I thought the trailer looked pretty good. I'm, I'm interested still to see like the balance of given, as you have, um,

uh, noted many a time. Nothing new about a Marvel reshoot, right? Nothing new about going back to, to tweak an ad. I am interested to see then how... They've added John Carlos as supposedly to his character.

They've added Rosa Salazar's character. Like, this is a... This is ample. Oh, like the process. Yeah. So I'm really curious to see how, like, what the kind of, like, structural integrity of the finished product feels like. Can we, like, identify and sense those seams?

Or does it feel like it all kind of stitched together fairly neatly? My hope, given that we were, like, we only had one. one Marvel film this year, and it was Deadpool and Wolverine. Right? Yeah. My hope is that they have been spending all the rest of their time

focusing on fixing this movie in a way that it won't feel like fixed with a capital F, but like we'll just feel fine. The the pre-critique I'm seeing for people is that they're worried that this is going to be like a Captain America winter social clone

given that, you know, Danny Ramirez is here as Falcon. There's a former Black Widow character playing by Scherer House is giving like strong Scarjo vibes, I would say, in this trailer. And then Harrison Ford lending the Robert Redford Gravitas. Though, that being said, I do not recall Robert Redford transforming into the Red Hulk, but I could be misremembering. Just pour in a tall glass of milk in his kitchen, with a sociopath. I would just say.

Absolute menace. I will say if you're going to copy a movie, might as well copy from the best, I suppose. Yeah. If you're going to try to do it, maybe make a bunch of soldier. And like this, you know, continued examination

of the passing of the mantle and what will, what Captain America will Sam want to be? And like, obviously the trailer leans into that with like the, you're not Steve Rogers. Like, you're not Steve Rogers. And so the idea of like playing in the same sandbox of like the the street level, you know, again, like the genre fair of like the spy craft and giving

the film that kind of energy. I'm totally open to. I'm curious to see how like in a movie that has Red Hulk and the leader and the Serpent Society, we make room for like our pal, Tiamut, the ocean bound celestial from the turtles, like how we make room for that in the movie? I don't know. I have some questions about that. But we'll see. This is like not that far away now in February, just around the fucking corner. It's really not.

Okay, so that's how, that's how 2025 is starting with the Captain American movie. Then we're getting Daredovo born again. So to your point earlier about like going back to the well of something we're familiar with is March 2025. We're getting a show now that was supposed to be, it was like 18 episodes or whatever, has been cut down. Right.

Has been reconfigured a bunch and, and originally, like, there were rumors that, like, carrying Foggy were going to be, like, killed off early or all this sort of stuff like that. But now they're trotten Debra and Woll and Eldon Henson out on the, on the D23 stage to, like, sell this. John Bernthal's back as punisher. The trailer looks a lot like it's just Daredevil on Netflix season four. Personally, I'm not stressed about it. I'm thrilled.

Wilson Bethel is as Bullseye, who I loved. I love Wilson Bethel in general. but I loved him in season three. He's in the trailer. I got really excited. The footage that we've seen is very violent, very horny. Kamala Khan's dad is there. I don't know why, but I'm excited to find out.

Will we see Kamala? Will we see Jen Walters? Will we see Echo? I'm less excited about it. Jen Walters, maybe we'll see. So, like, what do you want to say about Daredevil Board again? I can't wait. I mean, for years upon years, years on end now.

I would have ported this property and character said into the MCU if given the choice. So like the little moments that we've had with Matt Murdoch and the MCU so far have been really delightful, wonderful stuff, the walk of shame and Sheeulk, the lawyer scene and no way home. The fight and some interesting fights. Yeah, the fight choreography and echo was really fun. So I loved the Netflix Daredevil show. and I'm hyped to have Charlie Cox back in our lives regularly. It's, you know, usually quite rewarding to spend time with Kingpin.

I mean, think of all the Chris Ryan voice work that awaits now that we're back for an extended run with his, the Patriots Day to vote Chris Ryan voice work, John Bernthall. I mean, I love, did Chris pay you to do Native asked for the watch on this podcast? I don't know why he's on my mind. I don't know why he's on my mind today. He really is. Well, we didn't get to do, you know, Talk the Thrones this week. So perhaps you're missing him. That's probably what it is.

Like last night, I just was like going, I have the shakes going through withdrawal. No Talk to Thrones on episode nine, even though you promised me there would be an episode nine. I did. I did. But yeah, Frank Castle, punish her back. Like, this is, I'm excited. I really hope the show is good. And if it feels similar to the Netflix show and like they didn't radically change the DNA of something people love, that strikes me is kind of a good thing.

It's fine. All right. So it's 2025, Captain America, Daredevil. Then we get Thunderbolts in May. Careful who you assemble is the tagline. Love that. I like it. There's a mysterious asterisk that they said they will not explain until after the movie comes out.

Yeah. I've got to look at Lewis Pullman as Century. I'm, you know, David Harbor did a fun bit at Comic-Con. I'm, I've heard from every. who saw footage that they thought it looked great. Florence Pugh says Yelina Bolova jumps off the second tallest building in the world, which is in Kuala Lumpur. Ghost Protocol Yelina Bolova edition?

Great. Give it to me. I have always been excited for Thunderbolts because I'm a huge Malina Bolova fan. I'm a huge Bucky Barnes fan. Like you love U.S. agent. You love John Walker. I do not, though I do. I am a David Harbor enthusiast, as you know.

So I am cautiously optimistic about this. Me too. I'm looking forward to this. A lot of our favorite characters are in this. Some characters who we have less warm feelings for, like, you know, ghost or taskmaster, but what can be unlocked for them in this kind of like team upsetting? I'm so eager to see what they do with Century. Like getting Century on screen in the MCU is like something we've been waiting for.

So I'm looking forward to seeing that. And like, who's going to complain about more time with our with our Galvest? Val, come on. I can't wait. I mean, yes, but remember in Wakanda forever, we're like, Val, what are you doing this movie? We don't have time for you. We simply do not. But she belongs to this movie. This is her movie. This is what we've been building towards. Okay. That's the end of phase five. Phase six. We're still in 2025. So that's a Captain America movie, a Daredevil TV show, and Thunderbolts in 2025,

followed by the Fantastic Four First Steps. We got a little trailer, which has mostly footage that is like, seems like it's like, because they've said that Fantastic Four First Steps is going to start with them having their powers. So the footage that we saw of them, which is mostly like pre-flight, seems like it's going to be like video footage that they will be like looking back on of like, this is who we were before all of this happened. This is directed by Matt Shackman, who, as we noted, cut his teeth on Wanda Vision, not to mention and Game of Thrones and it's always sunny, et cetera, et cetera. Written by, Oh, Boy, Jeff Kaplan, and Ian Springer, and Josh Freeman, and Cameron and Eric Pearson and Peter Cameron,

Eric Pearson being the MCU's like go-to, clean-up guy. Said in the 1960s in an alternate universe, post-credits will introduce Robert Johnny Jr.'s. Doom and Galactus, Ralph Innocon's Galactus made an appearance in the trailer footage. From what you've seen is your biggest takeaway, how delightfully flirty Pedro And Vescal and Vanessa Kirby have been in the promo for this so far. It's, you know, two of the greats. I mean, the casting for this, I just think is extraordinary. Like, I am so excited for this movie.

If they don't nail this, it will be, I think, devastating for people, genuinely devastating. Obviously, there's an entrenched history of Fantastic Four movies not going well. But the combination of, like, the early positivity and hype around this particular rendering, how much, like again, Deadpool making a billion bucks didn't solve everything about our questions about the future of the MCU. Like, they got to get this right. A lot is riding on this.

And just the hype around the cast, it's going to be, but like because of, unlike, they've, you know, let us down before when all of the ingredients were there, but it feels like, it does really feel like all of the ingredients are here for something wonderful and something special. And like, I just have a hard time imagining

that we're not going to enjoy watching these four as, the fantastic four. The casting is exquisite. I'm, I'm, I'm just watching them on the red carpet. Like, you sent me the Grogo video. I was like, this is like the best, the best, like, 90 seconds of my week listening to Vanessa Kirby, ask Peterbach, Pascal, which son? And he's like, let me tell you about baby Yoda. I mean, what a time to be alive. So, yeah, I really can't wait. I hope this is great. I expect that it will be. I'm looking forward to it. What, like, the hype. Joe Quinn, who had been a working actor for a long time, playing any months in a Stranger Things. And then just like, and then just like being booked and busy.

Getting a quiet place, getting Gladiator, getting this, getting the new Alex Garland film, Joe Quinn, what a time. And Evan, we're excited for you too. Okay. So this is all 2025. I think actually, I think the thing that I'm most excited for and Fantastic Four that definitely sets it apart from the other efforts is this idea that we are setting it in the 1960s. I think that vibe and that energy that is such a brilliant idea. Like, I think trying, like, obviously Fantastic Four have exists across the decades and the comics continuity. But, like, the idea of, like, the first family and this whole story going back to an earlier time in our history in an all straight universe. I think this is brilliant, similar to the way that they introduced Cap. I think that was really smart. Yes.

I'm excited about that placement and pulling them out of their moment in time. to this larger story and then like that what they're describing as like retro future. Yes. I'm just like feels like it has the potential to be a nice creative spark and something that feels very specific to totally meet this group of characters in the MCU. Something really distinct. Can't wait. So that's the beginning of phase six.

Like that's how we're starting with Fantastic Four, a long anticipated. Blade allegedly November 7th, 2025. Literally no one believes that, not even Bob Iger, who said on his Q3 earnings statement. Our 2025 Theatrical Slate has Captain America, Thunderbolts, Fantastic Four, Zootopia 2, Avatar 3, did not mention Blade because Blade is definitely not coming out. November 2025. You don't have to take Wesley Snipesworth for it. I'm here to tell you. I believe this is my whole heart. So when we still get Blade, I really hope so.

We don't think we're in 2025. So that's where we are with that. Ironheart, however, speaking of things that have been on the shelf for a long time, Ironheart is coming out in 2025. I don't have a lot to say about it. Shinaka Hodge is a creator that I really admire. This is a character that I think got a little bit of a bumpy launch. So I'm curious to see how she does in her own show. Our guy Alden, Aaron Reich is here.

You know, I'm excited for him. But I'm a little worried. This has been lingering and collecting dust. and Marvel has not deployed it and so I feel like maybe they're waiting to sandwich it between Fantastic 4 and an Avengers movie in a way that perhaps

we'll be riding so high to those things we won't notice when they just sort of like tuck an Ironheart in there if it's like a little bit more wobbly or they have time to make further stabilize it but the shooting amount has been done for a really long time so I don't know

maybe they can find in the edit I don't know or maybe it's gonna be the best thing we've ever seen I hope so. I think the like balance of the different storylines in Wakanda forever, like was obviously a big discussion point. In terms of just our time with Riri and meeting Riri, like I did enjoy that. So I'm hopeful that the show comes together nicely and is something people enjoy. And then we're in the, we're in the final stretch here. We've just got a couple of Avengers movies to go.

Avengers Doomsday, May 26. Jody the worst to go. this is the thing I want to say about the Avengers movies. Figuke has said, not every new character that was introduced in Phase 4 and 5 would return at Avengers Dune's Day or Secret Wars. So I think that's going to be interesting to think about who's going to make the cut as like,

we want to bring the back and who isn't. They're isolated sort of the horror-based characters, like Moon Night, Scarlet Scarab, World Fight Night Man Thing, The Eternals, Dane Whitman, Agatha Harkness, like the MCU could skip. all of those characters and not like blend them with everyone else but like Kamala Khan Monica Rambo shang chi jen walters gave bishop uh loki i really think tom's done but maybe loki sylvie the new guardians of galaxy blah blah blah like those are more likely i think than

some of those other characters what do you think about that sort of breakdown yeah i guess some of it depends on how much bleed they want between the primary avengers and the eventual like young Avengers and whether they want to keep those teams distinct in the cinematic universe or not, that'll have some bearing as well. We'll be fortunate enough to get some Pet Avengers and the primary Avengers, I sure hope so. I would expect also like the team to grow between the two Avengers movies. So I don't necessarily think we're going to start with, you know, dozens of characters in the Avengers in Doomsday.

But I do think we will then build and add and amend the team. by Secret Wars and hopefully there's room there for that expansion to feel organic. There is an untitled project that took off the schedule for 2026. That's gone. Untitled Vision Show. The only reason I want to mention the Vision Show, which was formerly called Vision Quest and is no longer allegedly coming in 2026, is because Kevin Feigey has said he hired the showrunner, Terry Matalas, because he liked what Terry did with Picard Season 3, which is an excellent season of television. And this is as far as I can tell something somewhat new that they're doing with Marvel television, where they're hiring a previously experienced showrunner who did a great season of television to come and do a season of television for them. This is them in their showrunner era, and it's sort of just like a new thing.

And I think it's great. Secret Wars 2027, a couple new untitled things on the Slate for 2027, and some TBD's undated. Anything else you want to say about Marvel to come? I'm excited for Fantastic Four. I'm excited eventually to make an X-Men stories inside of the MCU. I am. I am cautiously optimistic.

I am. Yeah. I feel refreshed and revived. I've regenerated. My Marvel soul is regenerated after watching Deadpool and Wolverine. What a time. Well, that's it. Great to see you, pal.

I miss you. We did it. I miss you too. We'll be back for something we haven't talked about a long time, House of the Dragon, on Wednesday. It weirdly does feel like a long time, even though it's just been days. It's bizarre. Thank you to Steve Allman, to our Ginerangipal, to John Richter, to join me a dinner on.

You guys are all the best. We love you so much, and we will see you soon. Thank you so much. Bye.