House of R - 'Doctor Who' Anniversary Special Part 1: 'The Star Beast' Deep Dive

Episode Date: November 27, 2023

The time lord is upon us and so are Jo and Mal to dive into the first of three ‘Doctor Who’ 60th anniversary specials (05:00). They dive into the episode as the face of the tenth doctor returns, but the beginning of the fourteenth doctor is upon us. Come join the pod for reunions, redemptions, and even adorable Meep (15:13). Hosts: Mallory Rubin and Joanna Robinson Senior Producer: Steve Ahlman Additional Production: Arjuna Ramgopal Social: Jomi Adeniran Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Bill Simmons from The Ringer, and this is a podcast called The Rewatchables. We have been doing it. Really since 2017, it started with how much we love the movie Heat. We decided to structure a whole podcast with categories, most rewatchable scene. Who won the movie, Apex Mountain, what age the best? But here's the thing. If you want the full archive, you can hear them only on Spotify. For free, by the way.

So make sure to follow the rewatchables on Spotify. The playoffs are here. predict the action all the way to the finals with Fandul predicts. Predict the spread, total points, and even the game winner. Sign up and get a $25 bonus. Offered by Fandul prediction markets LLC, a registered futures commission merchant, 18 plus. Bonus is non-withdrawable and expire seven days after receipt. Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors.

Manage your activity with our consumer protection tool. Restrictions apply. See terms at Fandul.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash herms. This episode is brought to by whether Tech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need WeatherTech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner or a road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer. You

don't need weather tech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. Well, you look like the doctor to me. Well, exactly. One of the skinny suit. After that I wear a bowtie. After that I'm a Scotsman. After that I'm a woman. But that's your future.

You can't know that. It's forbidden. I regenerated. And she became me. You got your old face back. Yep. But why? That's what I'm worried about.

I'm Joanna Robinson. And it is my absolute pleasure today to bring you this episode about brand new Doctor Who with my favorite companion, Mallory Rubin. Hi, Mallee, how you doing? Obey the Meep. Meep, meep. Cannot wait to talk to you about the meep.

A character born for Mallory Rubin to discuss. As I said, we're here to talk about brand new Doctor Who, the first of three anniversary specials Star Beast. We will be diving medium. deep into that episode today. Before we do, quick, quick, rapid fire, parking reminders, et cetera. A lot going on over the Ringiverse, as always. I mentioned that game swap that's happening.

We love a game swap over on Button Mash. The Midnight Boys, what are they doing? I don't know, but it's going to be fun. We are doing a host of recommends this week, if all goes according to plan. And that is something we're really excited for. So tune in for that later this week. We got Miyazaki on the horizon over on the prestige podcast. I'm doing Fargo with Rob Bihon.

I'm doing The Curse with Sean Fantasy. A Child by Content has a time travel episode this week. What more could you ask for Mallory? So much fun and exciting content. How can folks keep track of it all? I would recommend that you follow the pod. Sure. Follow the pod on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast.

Follow House of our. the ringerverse, follow prestige TV, follow trial by content, follow all of them. And then while you're at it, follow the ringerverse on the social media platform of your choosing. The ringerverse is on Twitter. Yes. Instagram. Sure. TikTok.

Check it out. And then, of course, throughout the Doctor Who specials run, for Percy Jackson, for Aquaman, Joanna's most anticipated release of the calendar year, anything that's coming up. Send your emails to Hobbits and Dragons.

at gmail.com. Let's not get it twisted. The bit is that Aquaman is Mallory's most anticipated movie of the air. She wants us to podcast from a body of water. It's a whole thing. Just to be crystal clear. As crystal clear as the waters that we could be recording our episode from. Are we on a boat?

Or are we like, okay. What about like a raft? Oh, a raft. It's sort of inflatable. Oh, okay. We can use the cup holder armrest things for our mics. I'm sure that'll be fine. Do you know that I have an inflatable that looks like a dinosaur?

Sounds ideal. Seems like you're ready. I'll see you on December 22nd. All right. You let me know what your inflatable looks like. Okay. We're at the first of three Who Mondays that we were doing to accompany these specials. So we'll be back next Monday and the Monday after that for this whole run of specials.

Today, on the spoiler front, anything ever, Dr. Who? Anything ever, Dr. Dr. Who, because Mallory has now seen it all. No need to protect her delicate little ears. She has seen everything. Yes. So anything, Doctor Who. Today we are here to talk about The Star Beast, written by, and I'm going to try to

pronounce it the correct Welsh way, so bear with me. Russell T. Davis from a story by Pat Mills and Dave Gibbons, who wrote the original a Star Beast comic in 1980. So this is based on a Doctor Who comic from 1980. This episode is directed by Who. legend Rachel Tolele, who directed a bunch of great Capaldi episodes, including Heaven Sent and Hell Bent, two of our faves. So a pro is here at the beginning of this new run. Let's get right into it.

Let's start with a snapshot of the episode itself. I love Steve's little Doctor Who sound cues. It's so happy. Yeah. Really good. I'm calling this a TARDISI view of the episode. So imagine we're high up in the air over Camden Town. Mallory Rubin, how did you feel watching Starbeast?

Normally our routine is that the person who's hosting the episode asked the other person that. I simply cannot go first today because this is something that you've been waiting for for years and years and years of your life. And I need to hear from you. Everybody who's listening needs to hear from you. You told me that your DNA would be rewritten

once you saw the doctor and Donna back to together again. How did it feel? I want to start crying already. It's funny. So I had a drink in a notch with the great Rob Mahoney and his lovely wife who is a hoovian herself yesterday. And when I was talking to them about the Dr. Hoove at all like, and I was getting all worked up, I was like, this makes me feel like how Mallory feels all the time. I was like, I just feel like giddy when I talk about Doctor Who. I, like you sometimes say,

I don't know that I'm capable of like rationally assessing this. I, these, Donna and the doctor, David Tennant's doctor, are so imprinted on my very DNA, my soul. Seeing them together, seeing them together was such a rapturous experience for me.

I have a few notes here and there, hither and thither for this episode. I don't think it was a perfect episode. I don't think it is one of the best episodes of Doctor Whoever. That's not the case. We're talking about what it feels like to be back in the RTD era after experiencing other showrunners, et cetera. But we got so, like, it's less than a minute

until we have David Tenet talking to Catherine Tate in a Doctor Who episode. So I can. only say I was whizzing. And then when I rewatched it, I had some of my first run trepidation around some choices kind of went away on second viewing and third viewing. I think as I sort of eased back into the world of RTD. But I will say like the Russell T. Davis approach, which is cheesier, you know, like that's just always been a hallmark of his doctor who experience, I think trying to reconcile the cheesiness, which I've always loved, with the new massive budget that he's working with is like, it's a little bit of a different

experience than like watching, you know, the previous run where he had, you know, a nickel to work with or a farthing to work with, essentially. And like, then the cheesiness kind of goes hand in hand. So I think there's just some recalibration going on. but the Dr. Donna is just extraordinarily important to me. Mallory Rubin, back to you. I am literally crying. I don't know how to explain it.

I love it. It's such a thrill for me to get to share this with you. And what a wonderful, what a wonderful, perfectly calibrated plan we had to finish our rewatch right on the eve, deliberately and intentionally on these new episodes. I love when a plan comes together exactly as we intended it. So, you know, I have such a different relationship to this because I, you had to wait so long. And I had to wait no time at all. I am so spoiled, but also so grateful. And I do feel that I got to like absorb from you via osmosis some of the anguish that would have stretched out and expanded in that time. Because in just this short span these past few months, it was agonizing to think about our beloved Donna and what had. what had happened to her. So it was magic. It was magic to see tenant back as the doctor. It was magic to

see Donna again. It was magic to see them together. It was magic to see Donna's life to meet her family. And I will have to confront, independent of that emotional reckoning, what it means to stare in the face, the truth that I would be responsible for the falling of a moment. the world because the meep would have gotten me. Oh, I was like, oh boy, this is really, it's tough to have to grapple with the fact that the meep would have made me as a mark instantly. And without trouble would have won me to the cause. The fur looks so silky.

Like you just want to pet it, right? Yeah, that beautiful fur that the Roth Warriors were not actually hunting. It turned out. Oh, the meep. But yeah, I had a blast. It was great to be back. I feel fortunate that I didn't have to wait long to be back, and I feel so delighted that I get to share this with you. I can't wait for the next two episodes with Don on The Doctor. I'm sad that we only have two left with them, but then I can't wait for our time with 15. I can't wait for everything that await. So it's just so exciting to be on the brink of something new and to get to share it with you and everybody else. I'm thrilled. I'm going to do my very best not to call David Tenant's Dr. Ten. It's impossible. It was really hard, like writing the notes yesterday. I was having a really hard time. 14 just doesn't roll off the tongue the same way in general, but also like it's embedded in our minds to say 10 and 10 and 10.

So just blank and statement, I know this is a 14th doctor, not the 10th doctor. If I slip up, I do apologize in advance. Okay. I want to start with this email we got from Anders. Who like both of us loved seeing the doctor Donna back together, but said this sort of about being pulled back into the RTD era. said, as silly as it sounds, I was not prepared for this episode to be as much of an RTD episode as it was. It felt like one of those concentrate shots you take when you have a cold, but instead of ginger and lemon, it's hokey effects and techno babble. After his career best work and

it's a sin, one of the greatest many series of all time, Mallory and I agree, I might have allowed myself to expect his storytelling would have matured a bit. This still feels like the Russell would finish his episodes at three in the morning after a night out at the clubs. As much hate as mafitt got, including on this pod, there is a cohesion to his storytelling, while occasionally eye-roll-inducing and its self-satisfaction was appealing to me, especially when working with RTD as showrunner. Part of me wonders if these anniversary specials are more intentionally a callback to what made the era of who both great and in elegant before making way for whatever this reign of 15th doctor will be like. So I just wanted to read this email from Anders for a couple of reasons.

One, I love the phrase, eye rolling, inducing, and it's self-satisfaction. I was like, that is, I never was able to perfectly articulate the thing about the worst of Moffitt that pings for me. But I agree with Anders that the best combination, despite the fact that RTD wrote my favorite episode, Doctor Who, which is midnight, and has written absolute bangers. I agree that the best combination is Stephen Moffitt writing and RTD sharewriting. I wholeheartedly agree. That is where, like, pure, pure magic happens. But I've seen some, you know, because a lot, especially a lot of American fans of who got into it in the Matt Smith-Moffett era and have never been like fully on board for what it was before that. So I have seen some reactions from people who are like, this doesn't feel like Dr. Hood to me.

They apparently did not have their DNA rewritten by seeing David Tennant in plaid pants and horn rim glasses. And some new gray chucks. Wonderful to see the converse back, get a different hue in the mix. The pants made me so excited. It was like, it was like plusing what Peter Capaldi did. Anyway, any thoughts or feelings on Andrews email or just want to roll forward? I think I just, and again, maybe this is in part because I've watched all of the new Who era in such a relatively speaking compact and short span of time.

though I frankly I think this would be a sensation that I felt even more keenly if I had watched it over years or decades of my life. I think that that particular sensibility and flavor of each era and each showrunner is like part of the appeal, much like the particular flair of a given, a given version of the doctor, given companion. Like there are the consistencies and the through lines of the Who experience and then there are the aspects that feel distinct to the moment and time that you're, you're sharing with the characters you're watching. So I really like that part of it. I didn't feel like disoriented at all. And I also think embracing the cheese is genuinely fine with me, but also like feels like

part of the proposition of, of Doctor Who. I don't think that needs to at all come at the expense of like emotionally resonant or mature storytelling. I think that that particular brew is like the Doctor Who experience. I just don't know that I've ever felt so squarely. in the crosshairs of a nostalgia play as I was watching this episode where I'm like, oh, is this what it's like

to be the demographic that is always being nostalgia played to? And I was just sort of like, I'm sorry. The doctor and don't know what else to tell you. But I love your point about like embracing the cheese as part of it. The different flavors are, you know, part of the messaging of this episode is like,

the doctor is the doctor no matter what in a certain extent. Did you know about one and three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriotic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling? Does this sound like you? Listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away. Trimphaya, guselcomab, taken by injection, is a prescription medicine for adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, who may benefit from taking injections or pills or phototherapy, and for adults with active psoriotic arthritis. serious allergic reactions and increased risk of infections and liver problems may occur.

Before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or if you need a vaccine. Imagine being a million miles away. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimphaya. Tap this ad to learn more about Trimphia, including important safety information. Let us dive. I'm going to call, this is not, this is going to be,

medium deep dive. We're not like going to be here for hours. We'll be here for over an hour at least. Let us go into the medium deep dive of this episode. We get a previously on a little like pre-credits moment where both tenant and Tate are direct addressing the camera. Tenet like in the middle of space on a green screen situation. And like some flashback. Like, previously on the flashbacks, I was kind of expecting because there's a lot of context

that you need to know here. But the direct address, how did we feel? How did this work for you? Once upon a time, once upon a time, Lord. How are you vibing with this? Did not love it. No, to be honest. It was not a huge fan.

I thought this was totally understandable in terms of like meeting. Because a lot of the meta-crisis, Dr. Donna Cannon, even. by the standard of Doctor Who is like quite complex. And so I thought it was smart and deft to like fairly succinctly remind us of what had happened without needing to devote a large swath of the episode to that, even though we do get a little bit of expositional rehashing inside of the episode two. It was more just like you want right away that feeling that you have when 14 feels weird, but I'll do my best, takes the box off the stack and they lock eyes. puts the box right back to just be in it with them and figure it out with them in the thick of

like this overwhelming joy and euphoria of being together again, but also like paralyzing fear of what it might mean to be inhabiting the same space. And so to like break the wall a little bit and have the characters talk to us, took me out of that just for a beat. It was nothing that the second I, we had moved past it. I had also moved past it. But I was just like, this is kind of a, it's definitely a choice and I would say it was an odd one. It reminded me a lot of those Amy Pond intros

that the American version of the Mathsmith era, which we didn't love as well. So it's, there are some key phrases here though that I like the doctor says, but now this face has come back. Why? I wish we hear again and again

in this episode, which is very, you know, who frown me this face, Capaldi, stuff. And then we get this sense of destiny, inevitability, and maybe a reference to one of my favorite Doctor Who nicknames the oncoming storm where he says it's like a storm in the air about to break. I think the story

hasn't ended yet. It's a fairly straightforward phrase, but it feels a little bit like a metal, you know, like Russell T. Davis bringing Donna back and redoing Donna's ending, I think has to be in part a reaction to how outraged people were that this was Donna's ending. And I think he's just sort of like years later like, okay. Sure. All right. We'll take another crack at this. So I think the story hasn't ended yet.

It felt a bit meta in that way. But also one of our favorite quotes from The 11th Doctor, we're all stories in the end just make it a good one. Or the Ood to 10 at the end. of 10s rung. This is going to make me emotional say. We will sing to you, Doctor. The universe will sing you to your sleep.

The song is ending, but the story never ends. Incredible. We're back at the end of the beginning again, and I couldn't feel like luckier at all to be here. So wonderful. So wonderful. Love to quote Oud Sigma. Yes.

What a great, quietly, what a great episode this was for. The, like, knit-oed toy. Just astonishing, even by the standard of the astonishing plush display. It's all I want in the world is for somebody to crochet me some oud tentacles. That's not, that's not, no one listening has to do that. That's not me. I'm going to ask my stepmom. She makes these great little, she nits, but she makes these great little stuffed animals.

She does cats, she does bears. Oh my gosh. They're wonderful. If she can do an oud, I will pay for the pleasure. I'll have to spend some time explaining to her what an oud is. Yeah. I really, I bet you can do it. You talk for a living and you describe story for a living.

I believe in you. I think you can do this. Then we hit the new theme tune and new opening credits. And I'm so eager to hear what you think of this. They had already sort of previously released the theme tune, this lovely combination of like you get, we're back to the ninth and tenth, doctor with that little like sting sound at the beginning,

that like little revving up sound. We get some of the 11th doctor orchestral buildup. There's the choral note at the end is very Murray Gold. I'm like, Murray Gold is back. People are like ooing and awing on the score again. And like visually, we're in this psychedelic,

can't wait to say that word, like nine times this podcast. time vortex, and I love the way that the TARDIS skims into, like, because we're used to seeing the TARDIS sort of sailing around these graphics, these like sort of screensaver graphics, but to watch it like interact and skim the clouds, the pink clouds of the time vortex just genuinely thrilled me. How did you feel about the opening credits, Mallory? I loved it. And particularly upon a rewatch and on reflection based on how the episode ends, which is like this wonderful reunion and invitation,

like just one more trip. But then kind of chaotic. I have some notes on the placement of the coffee machine in the new TARDIS, and we can discuss that later when we get there. But they like kind of chaotic, bouncing about unpredictable element of what unfolds at the end. It felt like it captured that spirit very well. I love that. And here we are, at long last, in the episode itself,

there's again to think about like the because the budget has been steadily increasing over the years but this is like Disney money this is just like a new level of felt the budget with the the new tardis yeah yeah the new tard is oh my gosh the massive tars but just like the establishing drone shot of london i was like this is just such a different it was all glittering and beautiful and then we get i swear i'm not going to pause for like every single murray gold like coral cue, but we get the doctor's theme. The doctor's theme might not be like a very descriptive name for a track, but this is associated with like nine and ten with like the bad wolf plot strand is like the, ooh, okay, I did a bad job

of that. Anyway, I just like, it gave me. You did great. It gave me full body chills. It was wonderful. Yeah. I was just like, I feel like we talk about this with a lot of the stories that we cover, I think the all-time kind of quintessential example is the force theme, right?

John Williams, Star Wars, you hear it, you think of binary sunsets, you think of Luke, you feel what it was like to be on the precipice of that journey of taking that first step into a larger world. And those cues that pull you back, just like seeing Tennant's face or hearing Donna like a moat and joke in the way, Like these little bits of shorthand inside of the universe that long before any of the characters have an opportunity to really have like an in-depth conversation about what has unfolded between them, they just bring you right back in to that moment and time that you spent together. It's wonderful. I know how excited you were to be back with Murray, so I'm just delighted for you. It was just like a really hard to choose between like how excited I was to hear that like, ooh. And then like, or is it Donna's, oh, which we get like right away.

like just the trademark like OI. The Donna Oye was frankly iconic. Yeah, we're in Camden Market, we're walking around Camden Town the doctor like the coats swinging the whole thing. You can just like feel that like Tenet is excited to be

the doctor again. Oh man. That was palpable I thought throughout the entire episode. That was not to again zip forward to the end whether it's seeing the inside of the the remade reshaped TARDis. But the genuine jubilation, with which he skipped about the ramps, like in his shoots and ladders board come to life. He could not have been more enthusiastic about that.

And like, it's just infectious when you watch that and you feel how excited. It heightens what we as fans are feeling to see them back together. It's like you know it's genuinely a meaningful thing for them, not only to be inhabiting the characters again and in the world, but to be doing it together. Like you could just feel that so keenly throughout. God, I loved that. They just adore each other, and that's just, like, so clear. Yeah, him running around the TARDIS set at the end of the episode

reminded me of, like, when you see little kids, like, run around and pretend they're an airplane with their, like, arms straight out. They're just sort of like nearing. Like, that's, like, what he was doing around the TARDISET. It was so cute. But, yeah, Donna, they didn't make us wait, and I love them for that. They just gave it to us right away. Under a minute, I counted, under a minute from, like, the, the

close of the credits to the oi. And then the doctor has a reaction to hearing Donna shout for Rose, gives us a few like, what, what, what? Classic 10. Good recurring what bit throughout the episode. Yeah, I enjoyed everybody getting in on the fun and the climax. Like Donna popping up. What?

What? And then we meet Rose. We meet Yasmini's character. Yasin Fini was an actress I love from Heartstopper, and I was so excited to see her cast as a role, and I thought she was just so lovely in this episode. Wonderful. And something, I'm going to revisit this at the end

when we talk about Sean Temple, but like something that, you know, we can praise and censure RTD for a million different things. One of his genius things that he has always been so good at, and I don't know how he does it, is he makes me immediately care, immediately care for characters. And I can't, like, I've tried to study it. I have some thoughts on Sean about this, but, like, I care about Rose immediately because Donna cares about her, right?

And then I care about Sean immediately, and I just met them. Like, yes, we saw Sean in the past, but, like, we really just met him. And I'm just sort of like, this is something that I'm not sure any other showrunner has done as well is, like, the way that. I can meet a Wilf or a Jackie Tyler or a whoever, and I'm just like in right at the beginning. So this is a very companion forward episode because Davis has always been a very companion forward showrunner. And I just like am immediately in love with and protective of Rose when we meet her here. Yeah. Same. It was just instant with both Rose and Sean. It was fun after having glimpsed Sean

previously to really get some meaningful time. And it's just like also winning and captivating right away. And I think like your RTD point and the companion forward approach is a great and crucial one. I was thinking also just like obviously we've spent much time together chronicling our, I think it's fair to say, obsession with Wilf as like a just pantheon figure in our lives. We won't be talking about the myriad agonizing mentions of him in this episode. But like one thing that was really top of mind for me, often with Sylvia directly, but just in general, was like the contrast of where we find Donna, even though Wilf is so charming and, like, provides such as a sense of safety and comfort and understanding right away, Donna's family life when we first meet her

is like a little rocky, right? The wedding. It's a, it's a debacle. Sylvia, her mother, like, on her case, all the time about why things aren't going better in her life. And so, like, that contrast of just this, like, loving, supportive family unit who is, like, there for each other no matter what. And that impulse in particular, like, I will protect you at all costs, is the dominant factor in their lives. That was just, like, a really special thing to know that Donna had that because, of course, part of the experience with Donna is, like, thinking about what she's lost.

So to see what she had gained was just, was crucial. That was almost, it almost felt like RTD being like, see, she hasn't been suffering. She's been mostly fine. Later with the doctor where he's like, she's happy. Is she? And like carrying both of those truths at once, like there's something in her life that makes her happy. And then there's this great missing piece as well. And both of those things are real and true.

We return to that ongoing gag from the turn left. A lot of Donna in this episode is very much. Donna from the episode of Doctor Who season four called Turn Left where she's in a sort of a parallel multiversal Donna essentially what would Donna be like if she never met the doctor

what would her life be like and so the world isn't falling to shit as much as it did in turn left but this whole gag of like Donna misses everything resurfaces that she turns on she's messing with the boxes while a spaceship crashes

Talking about how she doesn't trust anyone with a goatee. Yes. A very, a very master reference. And then we get our first of many Wilf references when she says you're worse than your great granddad. And 14 goes, oh, granddad, right? He's like, Wolf, I want to talk about that. And I just think, I know that we love Wilf, but, like, Wolf is one of the most beloved Doctor Who characters.

and RTD, A, knows that, and B is weaponizing it in this three-episode arc, it seems like. Wolf is like the cheese at the end of the maze for us. It feels like just being dangled in the future. You will see Wolf eventually. And then Donna gets off this line. Oh, word of advice, you can wear a suit that tied up to the age of 35 and no further. Incredible. Incredible Donna shit.

Love it. Wonderful to have Donna's humor in particular brand of humor. So essential right away. And we love Donna. It's an important episode for Donna. And it's also important for us to say that this is incorrect. And he looks great. And he can rock it.

Phenomenal. Until he's in the grave, clearly. Sure can. He's also like, I mean, we'll get to this. He's very limber in this episode. David Tutt is 52 and he is like, agile. clambering up the walls.

It's amazing. And then we meet Sean And we get like a fun little bit with second paper I just cannot resist hearing this So Steve will you play us as good please Oh Satnerv says they're closing all the roads Oh I know some roads even taxi drivers don't trust me Grandmaster of the knowledge

That says grandmistress Oh catch up And let's Anozy Okay Okay Again I know that that I'm being served, nostalgia member berries on a little platter here, I still, like, gassed

when I heard LLNZ. And I love that Sean is like, we miss here in response. Like, it's just very, very sweet and cute. Wonderful. But yeah, we meet, we meet Donna's husband. And he is, like, lovely. And, like, you know, the first thing we learned about him is, like, how much he adores his wife and his daughter.

And it's just, like, so sweet. And then we hear that Donna's refused to hyphenate her name, Temple Noble, right? It sounds like an old ruin. And this is a callback to the end of time when the doctor tells Wilf, hold on, she's not going to be called Noble Temple. That sounds like a tourist spot. So fun little callback, but also textually in the show, it shows us that though she has had a bunch of her self-suppressed and sort of erased away, there is a part of her brain that is still working exactly the way that the doctor's brain works, like precisely the way that the doctor's brain works.

Yeah, I loved this too because obviously there's a lot of fear that's palpable for the doctor right now. Like, what is it going to mean if Donna remembers me while we think we know what it means? But in this moment with that exchange, there was that smile of like complete and totally. little recognition, right? You're worried about the reunion, about that epiphany, about rediscovering their time together and their shared history, but there was just like a, that's my Donna look on his face that was like, it's just captured everything in just one little glance. I loved it. We get a couple things in short order. We get a reference to Nairis. my, like, never in a million years did I ever think I would be so lucky to have Nerris,

Donna's nemesis brought back into an episode of Doctor Who. The fact that we have time for Nerris, not once but twice this episode, is incredible to me. The second one was my favorite when, already the doctor couldn't remember the cover story. It was like, what was it again? Nearest. Yeah, Nairz. And she's like, Viper in the Nest, Narris. The beginning of the lottery plot, which will thread throughout the episode.

episode. Unit rolls up. So unit is here. New uniforms. We can talk about that if we want to. And then we get the new Sonic and it does a couple boring things. It will do some less boring things later. Before we get to the less boring things it does later here, it just like unlocks the door, cuts a fence, yon, yon, yon. What do you think of the design? We have like a almost like a cracked marble, like, hilt. tell me your thoughts and feelings about this Sonic. I mean, I loved it, of course. I can't wait to buy it. This was such a powerful and dangerous episode for the merch addicts among us.

Totally. The thing that was most interesting in addition to like the new, first of all, I like thinking of the Sonic, as we've talked about a lot, is an evolution across the versions of the doctor. So like which parts of this Sonic looked like the Sonic that we would associate with 10? and then which aspects felt like new and additive and like a reflection of a character who had lived through different regenerations and stages since 10. Obviously the new powers were like quite intriguing and I will say frankly astonishing to me. That opens up quite a bit.

But the main thing that I thought of was just like, well, we know that this means that at some point the TARDIS spit out a new Sonic for the doctor and the doctor's been off having adventures. Like it's not like this is, yeah, there's just no like space in between the regeneration and this meeting with Donna. Like time has passed. The doctor has been on some sort of journey and alone, right? Which is like always something that we track and think about is when is the doctor alone and then when is the doctor with somebody? And I think particularly notable given that like that idea of. being alone was like at the heart of one of the most agonizing conversations in the history of the show between the doctor and Wilf, you know, when he was explaining after Donna had had been robbed,

I was going to say lost, but like been robbed of, you know, her memories. And Wolf was asking, you know, how about you? Who have you got now? No one traveling alone. I thought it would be better alone. But I did some things that went wrong I need and then just breaks down in tears. So like it was so sad to me to think that this face returns. Why? Who? You frowned me this face. Who smirked me this face. Yes. And that the beginning is alone again.

And then like how fitting for Donna to be the first one to bring some companionship back. And also like that face is life. It's so interesting and mysterious. How much time? What has he been doing? Will we learn more about it? There are some like potential little smudgy fingerprints towards the end of the episode. But it is like a really interesting question of.

Anyway, we go now to what I'm calling the Mojo Dojo Casa Temple Noble, which a lovely home, the only thing they did with their lottery earnings. And we get Sylvia. There's so much Sylvia this episode. And I have always had, like, despite her being awful to her daughter, like an interesting soft spot for Sylvia. And she sort of earns it in this episode because her relationship with Donna is so she. changed now. But when Sylvia is stressed and asked if Donna saw the spaceship crash, because she's worried as we all are about Donna's a fragile brain, Donna says, not me, Dumbo.

And it, like, hurt me so much to hear her talk about herself that way because we heard her talk about herself that way in the past. We heard it in turn left. Like, her self-denigration. Yes. She has her lovely family and a lovely home and an ongoing unstable job history. But the fact that she thinks, she's back to thinking that she's nothing or the butt of a joke, even though, like, later, Sean will, like, jump into rebut that and stuff like that.

Makes me angry once again that our memories were taken from her. And even though I know, I know that within this hour it's about to be probably resolved, I'm just sort of like, I don't want to hear. this after everything that she's done. I can't bear it. So, yeah. It was very, very sad. Very, very sad. I'm relieved that we didn't have to spend too long seeing Donna in that space. But with that self-deprecation, right, comes also the continuation of that, like, fierce protector that we've come to know and love. And I was thinking about how, like, in a lot of the Dr. intro episode, certainly in the 11th hour, Matt Smith's first episode, or in Chris's

invasion, David Tennant's first episode. Oftentimes the doctor gets to do a fun little monologue against an alien incursion and say some version of, it is defended or basically run or whatever it is. You know, I'm the doctor and I defend this thing called Earth and this is, you know, back the fuck off. Here we get Donna using similar language, but not in defense of the Earth, though we'll get there. But like in defense of her world, her daughter, her daughter is her world.

is in and her concept of what she has to protect has shrunk, right? She's no longer trying to save the people of Pompeii or save all Oudkind or whatever it is that she got to do in her adventures. But she's like, here's this thing. This thing is my world. My world has gotten tiny, but this is my world and is important to me. And it's just very doctory to me what she says here. Steve, will you play this?

Listen, you, I would burn down the world. world for you, darling. Anyone has a go, I will be there and I will descend. I will descend. Love it. Mali, you love when the doctor talks about burning. How did you feel about this? I loved it. I thought it was beautiful. And you know, this comes right on the heels of us seeing Donna and Rose walking home and seeing these transphobic, bigoted, assholes, dead names. And, you know, this comes right naming Rose and harassing Rose on the street. And like that idea that even in your own like community, you would have to confront that all the time is like real and important, right?

And so for Donna to take that like core lesson, one of the core lessons, right? There was like the sometimes you need somebody to stop you, runaway bride kind of initial lesson. But really like one of the core lessons of their run together, you just mentioned Pompeii, Just someone, please, not the whole town, just save someone. Like this core truth that she taught the doctor not just to like see and understand, but really to embrace. I think that it's like beautiful that like you're right. She went from saving a city back there shortly. But like the city, the country, the planet, a galaxy, the universe.

To being like back in the kernel of that truth in her own world. life. Like you fight for your family. You fight for the people around you. You fight for the people that you love. Like she will protect her daughter no matter what. She will protect her family no matter what. And from there, she will build back into that larger protection as well. And like she's getting to like learn that again, just like she helped the doctor learn it in the first place. So I thought that was just wonderful. My eyes are just going to be sort of moist this whole time, just like gently dewy leaking tears. It's emotional. I thought it was really lovely to also like, you know, Donna and Sean are like fully on board with everything.

Sylvia is also emotionally on board, but I did like, I thought it was very honest. I really liked this moment where she's like struggling with like, how do I best support this person that I love? I'm trying to learn. I'm trying not to fuck up. And it's very, very real and very lovely. And then we get Wilf reference number two. I have just like bolded and highlighted all these willf references because they were so

important to me. Donna says, remember Graham? he's talked about flying saucers. He's talked about aliens and UFOs and little green men. Then he never mentioned them again around about the time. I forgot everything. So this serves again as like a little bit of exposition. As you mentioned, we get it kind of throughout the episode, sometimes a little clangily,

sometimes deftly. But it makes me so sad to contemplate how much of himself Will had to hide away to keep Donna's safe. Like this was such a core part of his, like, his interests and his passions. And the toll that him hiding part of himself away and not being able to talk to her about a big part of herself, like must have taken on their bond, which was so, so tight, so close from the moment we met them in Partners in Crime is when we met Wilf. We meet him sitting up on his hill with his telescope. And because I just want to see how hard I can make Mallory cry on a morning where she has a lot to do. Steve, will you play this clip, please? How far away is that?

Oh, it's about 26 million miles. But we'll get there one day. Hundred years' time we'll be striding out amongst the stars. Juggling about with all them aliens, just you wait. You really believe in all that stuff, don't you? They're all over the place these days. If I wait here long enough... I suppose you've seen a little blue box.

Is that slang for something? No. I mean it. If you ever see a little blue box flying up there in the sky, you shout for me, Gramps. Oh, you just shout. There's a later episode when Donna comes back and Sylvia's giving a hard time and Wolf just tells her like, you go out among the stars, right?

This is just like such a core part. And the fact that he hasn't got, I'm just like genuinely just like gently weeping. um, Mallory has had to grab a tissue. Um, like, uh, that he hasn't gotten to tell Donna about his final adventure with the doctor. Like,

he did this great big thing. And he was there with the doctor at the end of all things. And, um, except the story hasn't ended yet. And, uh, they,

you know, they underlined this at the end of the episode, which just like wouldn't be great to talk to him about this, that and the other thing. Yes, I would. But yeah, You have to think about all the years in which they didn't get to.

And it's devastating. I found this so devastating. I could like, even though it is quite literally our job to talk about these things and explain how we felt about them on podcasts and talking to microphones, I can barely like articulate this. Because it, it, it hits so many different things. Like, Wolf is a figure. is this beautiful, wonderful, sweet man who we love for a lot of different reasons. And like the separation, that rupture

of like a shared truth and understanding inside of their family is so devastating. There's this little nugget inside of that of how like amazing it is that Wolf gets to have his own adventure and own journey, but the just the despair of not being able to share that. And I think like of all the things that makes Wilf, great. The thing for me, it's not just that he's like loving and supportive and nurturing. It's like he represents something. He's a really singular creation, but he's like this archetypal fantasy figure to me where like we talk a lot about the figures and stories who like can't open their minds, right? And then because they can't open their minds, they can't open their hearts. And they're like unwilling to see that something could be different.

around them, that there could be like a truth other than the one that they've always accepted and understood. And so like for Wolf to be somebody who not only embraces the possible, but like then helps Donna and the other people around him do the same is just like the great, the greatest gift. So for them not to have been able to like continue to share that with each other, it's just like, that was like, I mean, just as frankly just as much as Donna's relationship with the doctor, Donna and Wilf being able to share all that was like this, the defining experience of her life. To be like robbed of that and for Wilf as well to be robbed of it is just so, so, so heart-wrenching. And then you build from that like Wilf-specific memory and recollection into this like larger rumination on what she feels is missing.

You know, she says there's just this gap. And we hear Sylvia tell her like, it's not a mystery. you had a breakdown and to think about like the people who are closest to Donna and care about Donna like having to tell her that life for 15 years of her life is just like really and they're doing it to protect her but it's just like such a hideous reality and I thought like the she has this beautiful moment in their kitchen she says sometimes I think there's something missing like I had something lovely and it's gone and I kind of look to the side like like something should be there, but it's not.

She builds a few sentences later towards saying, but some nights I lie in bed thinking, what have I lost? Which is obviously like heart wrenching. But that like little bit there about looking to the side, I thought that was a fascinating. It struck me as a very deliberate language choice because there are so many moments across Doctor Who episodes where there's this idea that like something lurking just out of view, just to the side, just behind you, the corner of your eye. And it's always a horrible thing, right?

it's like a monster, something you should be scared of. And to reposition that with Donna as like the most beautiful, magical thing in the history of her life, that that is the thing she can't see. Like, I'm struggling to think of something more painful than that. It also makes me think of like there's so, when you, if you obsessively, whomst among us has done this, I couldn't possibly tell you. But if you obsessively watch season four of Doctor Who over and over again, like it's your comfort. comfort blanket.

And you will just enjoy so many moments of the doctor and Donna sharing a look, silently sharing a look. So to look over to the side and to go back to that whole Temple Noble sounds like a ruin, sounds like a tourist spot, to look to the side with love and respect to Sean, to look to the side and see someone who was so closely aligned with you and who gets you. And you don't even have to articulate it. you can just share a look and you both know what you're reacting to. You and I have done that on a Zoom call.

I've had moments of like on a Zoom call with you. Where we just like, someone else is talking and we look at each other and I know exactly what you're thinking. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services plus 24-7 U.S.-based support, millions of business owners already trust Spectrum

business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. The playoffs are here and you can predict the action all the way to the finals with Fandul predicts. Follow all the playoff dishes, swishes, wishes, wishes, and misses. is predict the spread, the total points, and even the game winner. Sign up for Fandual Predicts and predict it from the couch. Offered by Fandual Prediction Markets LLC, a registered futures commission merchant. 18 plus. Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tools.

Enter the meep. And I would just like, this is public service announcement to one person only. And it is your lovely spouse, Adam. Adam is 10 shopping days until Hanukkah. I believe I did my math correctly. Yeah, great work. You did. And RTD, King of the merch, strikes again with the instantly merchable, the meep. Unbelievable.

Mallory, we already know how eager you are to destroy the world just for a chance to stroke the glossy fur of the meep. But you have proven yourself time and time again to be a very sharp and astute watcher of story. How quickly did you cotton on to the other shoe dropping with the meep? And was Miriam Margulies a casting spoiler in any fashion for you, as she kind of was for me? No, but only because my primary association is Professor Sprout. Sprout, yeah. So it's like, oh, wow. The meep, not only looking like that with those eyes, but saying in our first seconds together, I hurt my paw.

I felt from the SARS. I hurt my paw. I mean, what am I supposed to do? Yeah. I was like typing up my protect the meep at all cost tweets like getting ready to make my grand return to X after tweeting, you know, once every seven weeks recently. I was like, I'm back. I'm back to tweet about the meep. No.

I was duped and deceived. I will say they're honestly. from the second I saw the meep in the trailer, there was a part of me that was like, should we trust the meep? I think the meep is so cute. And also it's Doctor Who. Like, you know,

we're not in Star Wars where, like, Grogo can genuinely just be the cutest and sweetest and most important thing that we have ever seen and hopefully, like, stay that way for 900 more years of canon, ideally, maybe more. you're kind of always on the high alert, right? Whenever you meet a new critter. And that said, the moment later where the meep transforms in real time

into a pointy-toothed, leering embodiment of evil, it was like, this hurts. Those arts. I think you can still love the meep. You can just love like, you can, you can just say that you're a fan of like pre-psychedelic sun meat, right? Yeah, before the mutation and the bloodlust set in. You know, the MEEP wanting to like fix a rocket ship and take out a earthly city and set off on a quest for vengeance. I mean, you know, it happens in Doctor Who.

I think the very specific declaration that the MEEP intended to eat our heroes is something that even I cannot. It's hard to look past. It's hard to look past. You're like, London, sure. But no, I love London. We just got the Dr. Donna back. Can't eat that. On the official Doctor Who podcast,

Yes. RTD said that in his original script, the MEEP revealed its villainy much earlier in Rose's shed. Like, basically, you would have the MEEP meep about looking beseechingly at Rose, like, smiling help. protect me, like all the sort of stuff like that.

And every time Rose's back was turned, the meat would be like, I'm good to eat her, like blah, blah. When I saw him say this, I got, this is what I got nostalgia for. All the behind-the-scenes features that I've watched of Russell T. Davis, and almost every single one, he has this aggrieved, like, this is how I thought it should be. And they made me change it.

And I think my original idea was better. He does it every time. And so I was like, oh, we're back, baby. We're back with the what if of his original script. But this was great because, like, you get the, you get the debate and divide among the group, right? Like, Donna is like, you monster. Merritt from Mars. Mad Paddington.

Bad Paddington was incredible. And the doctor just, like, keeps cooing at how cute the meep is. So it's not like you're totally comfortable because there's a little bit of, like, what the hell is happening here. The thing that actually twigged for me, because like you, I was like, I'm suspicious of any creature we ever meet in the beginning of a Doctor Who episode. But it was actually when the doctor threw the mail slot goes, oh, wow, he's so cute and kind of like wrinkles his face. Like, this is unbelievably cute. And that's when I was like, yeah, this is meant to disarm you. This is a monster.

Speaking of merch, and again, it is 10 shopping days until Hanukkah, I don't know if the new Sonic is for sale, but I have decided to name it, Stark Industries presents the Sonic screwdriver mock too. Because the Disney money shows up to the party when the doctor uses his Sonic to make himself a little Tony Stark screen and project the specs of the crash ship. And like while he's doing that, this is pure tenant. This is not Downey. This is tenant. Leaning back, horn room glasses on, legs crossed, plowed trousers, just iconically, doctory, stark and about with a touchscreen.

I actually took a picture of this because the particular, I wanted it on my camera roll forever. Like the particular posture and lean, what I consider to. be his very deliberate attempts throughout the episode to center the new converse that he's wearing and make it impossible for us to miss. All of it was just wonderful. I'm like, I mean, this was obviously incredibly on the sonic front intriguing. The shortly ensuing. Protecting barriers. Shifting barrier protections were also like incredibly interesting. But this just feels like, like why do it now, right? And there has to be a reason.

I mean, I guess it could just be so something feels like fun and fresh with tenant returning to the role, 60th anniversary special. It could be as simple as that, right? Level up the Sonic. But like what about the new functionality is going to come into play

in these next couple episodes? It feels like there's got to be something, right? I don't know what it will be, but... Use all of the sonic barriers to protect Will, at all costs. Sweet wealth. And then we have the doctor meeting Shirley.

This is a new character, Units, scientific advisor. There's a fun little joke about him being scientific advisor, advisor number one, which was the third doctor, gets stranded on Earth and becomes unit scientific advisor.

But I love Shirley. I thought she was delightful. There's a reason we started the episode with this exchange between them. I like that she, I mean, she's brilliant and she just like gives him sass, which you know I always love. And just a big fan of this character who I anticipate will be recurring.

I hope so. I really hope so. Shudegat was run as well. I don't know that. I'm just, it seems like, the kind of character they would set up to come back again. That is my hope. I thought Shirley was absolutely delightful. And I hope that she's with us for quite some time.

You never know with Unit or really anything. Any group of Doctor Who, who's just like a one episode, pop up and who's going to be with us for some time. But, you know, Kate gets a mention. Kate's been with us for quite a while now. So hopefully, hopefully Shirley will be a recurring presence in our lives. I think, I don't know for certain, but I think Kate might be in one of the, like, I think she might have been announced as being in one of the specials, which I hope, I'm like, that would be nice to see Kate, even though we did just see her in the Jody episodes that we literally just watched, like, last week. It feels like mere days ago. Yeah.

Here's we hit some like clunky recapping previously on. When the doctor responds to Shirley and he says, well, that's what I'm worried about because I've got this friend called Donna Noble and she was my best friend in the whole wide universe. I absolutely love her. Oh, do I say things like that now? Couple things. We had a great email about this. I'm going to read in a second.

But also it just reminded me of Tenet in his first up Christmas invasion when he's talking to Rose at the end of the episode. And he says, wanted to be a ginger, I'd never been Ginger. And you, Rose Tyler, fat lot of good you, or you give up on me. Oh, that's rude. That's the sort of man I am now. Am I? Rude? Rood and not Ginger?

And so I always love like a, again, we don't know how many adventures 10, 14 has been on since this regeneration. but I do love a fresh off a regeneration, what kind of man am I interrogation? But we got this lovely email from Mare who is identifying this very specific trait. And she titled her email, The Doctor Who Says I Love You. Mayor says, I find it very intriguing that 14 makes a point of noticing that he says, I love you, slash recognizes that he loves people in the Star Beast episode. makes me think of other's characters to whom 10 never said I love you. Namely, Rose Tyler ever heard of her?

Do we think a Billy Piper cameo is hashtag happening? Mallory Rubin, you just identified the Rose departure as like your most emotional Doctor Who moment. Do you dare to dream, would this be interesting to you if they're going to smuggle a little Billy Piper moment in here? if this is all part of the doctor making his sort of amends tour, would you want to see Billy again? I mean, it's hard for me not to want this. I think it would be incredible, but I am genuinely of two minds.

There's a part of me that like, I think if the larger answer to the already in the just one special, like recurring examination and interrogation of why this face returned. is like not just specific to the time that transpired between 10 and Donna, but more broadly like that, the man who regrets and the man who forgets 50th anniversary episode characterization of 10 and 11, like if this is more about the necessary closure for the man who regrets,

then I think that moment with Rose would be like appropriate and frankly necessary and like bizarre to not include but I think that if this is really primarily about 10 now 14 and Donna and looking at

and tending to and hopefully like healing one of the defining wounds in the doctor's life then bringing to me bringing in something that is like

almost like equal in magnitude would feel like everybody was competing for space and like let's give Donna and the doctor their three episodes to work through what they need to work through together and not crowd that. All that said, it is I think impossible

and we are being invited to think of the second Bad Wolf Bay farewell and the doesn't need saying parting. Like, Rose is begging him to say, I love you. And his response is, does it need saying?

So if this is a version of that doctor who is capable of saying that now and not fearing what it means to tell somebody that, rather than just carry it with him and then enter this breach where, as Donna notes and observes later, like he never sees these people again. Obviously, the reason he's not seeing roses because she's in a different universe again. How much space is there in the next couple hours of specials? you know, perhaps that is a part of perhaps, perhaps thinking about that and interrogating that choice is part of this journey. So I think, well, I feel like we'll be better positioned to say whether that would make sense after seeing the next episode and seeing like what progress the doctor and not want to make. So my only, I don't, I do not want to like, I am, I am filled to the brim with appreciation for what we are getting. Yeah. And I don't want to like

overpromise and underdeliver in like theory corner on like what we could be getting. what else we could be getting. The only thing that is, like, nudging at me is we know so little about Wild Blue Yonder next week's episode, intentionally so that Davis has said, almost nothing is out there. And if you watch the trailer for it, it's essentially like a madman trailer where you're just sort of like, it's just the doctor, Donna, and you don't see anything else in that, in the trailer. So, like, just spilling coffee on the console of this target. take us to another universe?

Is that how wild and blue the yonder is? Like, I don't know. I almost can't allow myself to consider that the possibility. I will be totally fine if that's not the case. I will be totally fine. I don't need to have Rose here. If he does say that to Rose, I also need him to apologize to Martha

for, like, cold-shouldering her and ignoring her. That's part of their, like, apologies to her. But anyway, Let's go back to the gift at hand without wishing for the bird in the bush to say Donna and Destiny, this is something that has been associated with Donna's storyline all through her season. In that episode, Turn Left, the doctor says to her, sometimes I think there's way too much coincidence around you, Donna, I met you once, then I met your grandfather, then I met you again, in the whole wide universe. met you for a second time. It's like something's binding us together. And in this episode, he says to Shirley, and now the universe is turning around her again. I don't, turning around her.

Yeah. Donna, you are the center of the universe is turning around you. Okay. He says, I don't believe in destiny, but if destiny exists, then it is heading for Donna Noble right now. How do you feel about the reintroduction of this idea of destiny and Donna? I like it. I am so curious to see where this goes and whether like the reveal of some sort of guiding hand or puppeteer like whether there's something nefarious at play

that is pulling them back together or whether there's something more like healing and beautiful. Maybe you can find the latter after confronting the former. That's often how it goes. But frankly I think beyond what the eventual like canon explanation is.

and what it means for the Donna mythology or the Doctor Who mythology or the Dr. Donna mythology or any of it. That, it just connects and like literalizes one of the things that draws us into the story in the first place, right? Which is like, I remember really vividly when we did our first Doctor Who pot together

and like one of the things, one of the tone setters that you put out there for me was like, it's not really the doctor's story. It's the companion's story, you know? And that's like a really important organizing principle. an orienting principle. And so that idea that like the companion

is the center of the universe feels like really true. A very R2D notion. Yeah, like an embrace of something that is central to how he views the story that he's trying to tell. And it's, yeah, in such contrast to brace yourself,

I'm going to slightly poke at Stephen Moffat all the times that characters tell Moffitt's doctors you're the most important man in the universe. Sure, Welf says it to 10, so like, it's not like Davis never did it. But like, it was

so much about like Rose, Tyler, you're extraordinary. Martha, you're extraordinary. Donald Noble, you're so special. You know, and that's, you know, what I love versus like, I don't know, the impossible girl who exists just to save the doctor. Okay.

Suflai girl. Suflai girl. Love Shirley's little like roast of the doctor when she shoes him off and he goes, wait a whole life. And she says, you wish. Loved that exchange so much. Doctor takes off in the back of the truck. Meanwhile, Shirley's soldiers.

Yeah, just like an insusient crossing of the legs as he like goes off in the back of the stress. It's amazing. Meanwhile, surely soldiers get possessed by a psychedelic son and don't you just hate it when that happens? Must be a Saturday. the psychedelic son of taking the soldiers. Back in Rose Shed, cute meep stuff. We don't need to linger longer here necessarily.

Donna does her little eye poke that was in the trailer, and then we get a whole flip out. We do get a second mention of the woman in the UAE, Abu Dhabi first and then Dubai, buying all of roses stuff to animals. It seemed like a kind of thing that maybe I might. want to track. Some mysterious woman out there who is making sure

that the Temple Noble family has some money by buying up a bunch of stuffies, you know? Oh, interesting. So you're thinking it's some sort of like benefactor or guardian. I was wondering if this and let me say that I know nothing about what is coming, have

only seen the trailers. Neither of us do. Don't really know all of the history of this character, but we do know that Neil Patrick Harris is playing the toy maker. And so I was wondering if this is like a toy maker connection and maybe there is some sort of like liaison or plan to is like in some way connecting the toy maker character to the donnell the donna family it just felt like two mentions in the episode felt like i need i need to watch this okay great glad we

agree i love your theory better than mine um did you could you did you spot when we were first glimping these toys that they were who characters no because they only like really show us the don't And that is like, abstract at best. I see furry, blue, dalek later. Paring that with an exterminate, killed me. The adipose being, like, if we had seen a shot of an adipose, I would have been like, oh, I know what that is. Can't fool me. I can spot an adipose a mile away.

Oh, man. Good stuff. And then the doctor just shows up to the house. And it is wonderful that Sylvia immediately is like, oh no, uh-uh, not you. Just incredible. She, you know, she clocks him. It's just a delightful amount of chaos. The MEEP is like clutching onto Donna.

Donna is trying to like shake him off, shake it off, like all this sort of stuff like that. And then Sean just shows up. Dad's home. Unbelievable. Right? And then he's just sort of like, did. Smells delicious. It smells good.

Yeah. Tuna Madras. Yeah. It's just. Wonderful. The cut from Sean walking in to everybody freezing in the kitchen, the meep like clutching the leg, like the meep was prepared to scale a tree and seek to escape. It was just so funny.

Naris gets a mention again. And then we get Wilf reference number three. And this is the moment where I got a little nervous. At the start of this. Yeah. Because so some context for folks who haven't been following this as closely necessarily, Bernard Kribbins, the actor who plays Wilf, passed away since, but did film some for the specials.

I just wasn't sure how much. Yeah. And I didn't know at the beginning of this, I didn't know if, like, maybe he passed away before filming enough for them to make the story that they wanted to. That's what they were going to like. Yeah. that they were going to write that he had passed away and that we wouldn't get to see the Wolf scenes

that they had filmed. And then I get called an idiot by Sylvia and Donna. That's great. Let's cheer this. Steve, please. There is one person missing. I used to know your granddad, Wilf. He's not with this anymore.

Right. Of course. He wasn't young. I love that man. I'm so sorry for your loss. He's not dead. You idiot. He's a.

sheltered accommodation. He's 94. He can't manage the stairs. Donna's face. Joanna, the relief that I felt, I like, oh my God. 100%. But Donna's face where she's like, he's not dead. Like, I've seen Donna do that so many times. It was so funny. Vintage. I don't know when they shot this. I can't tell you for sure if they shot this after Bernard Kribbins passed away. It felt like Tenet was giving this like a little extra his own personal emotion, but I don't have any information about when they shot this or not. As you mentioned, we get the Kate reference. Yes.

She's looking after him. There's a little cottage with a garden. My heart. Delightful. Absolutely delightful. My heart. And then we get this pronoun conversation with the MEP, which I just really loved. It was just sort of like hilariously and deathly handled.

And we find out that both the MEEP and the doctor have two hearts. We sure do. Dun, dun, whatever that means. Anything you want to say about this section? We got the, you're a fashion victim. Yeah. Moment when the MEP issued the lie about MEP kind being hunted for their beautiful fur. quite a

stretch here really, really sets up quite a bit to come in the episode. I do love, unit arrives. Yeah,

unit's here. Unlike both, I was like, I was remembering, like, obviously Capaldi's Doctor 12 spends a whole season

talking about how much he hates soldiers. But also 10, like in the doctor's daughter, like he's talking about how much he hates soldiers. So for him to be like, oh good, the soldiers here, they'll help us. I was like, all right, 14, fine with soldiers, apparently, not yelling about guns or anything.

So it's an interesting development here. But then we get just like a lot of physical comedy. The Sonic does that barrier thing you talked about. He hands the Sonic to Donna and she sort of has this moment in her face of like, I know this thing who frowned me this Sonic. I would recognize this. And then we get a really cute callback to the Doctor Dance is one of my favorite episodes for the ninth doctor. The Ninth Doctor says, Rose, I'm trying to resonate concrete.

Like, leave me alone. This is hard. And 14 says of this Sonic, this is a sonic screwdriver. And if it's good, one thing, it's resonating concrete. So love this connection to one of my all-time favorite Doctor Who episodes. It's fantastic. In general, the combo of like callback, anxiety when we see the sonic hit Donna's hand. The joy of Donna saying, skinny, mini, you're not bad. You think? No, she doesn't. Like, it's the little chirps from the beep as they're making their way across the five buildings worth of addicts and homes to get to the cab that they need to reach. Like there's a little bit, especially in a rewatch of like, okay, this is where we're going to have a bit of a break from the really like hardcore and intense downloads that are coming our way. But there is like a nice little injection of the comedic slapstick here as well. The like one of my favorite Dr. Who things, people in suits, right, is present here for both. So the MEP is digitally enhanced. Like the eyes are digital and stuff like that. But they're, they did put someone in an eye.

read somewhere that it was a ballet dancer in the suit. So ballet dancer is shuffling along, sort of like Sean Gunn as Rocket Raccoon style. If you think about a person in the suit and what they had to do to get that, like the leg-bent physicality of the meep, extraordinary. And then also the wrath warriors who look a little less sophisticated are these guys on like stilts in the suits, like just sort of hunking along. We interrupt this program to bring you. Yes. Wigwatch TM with Joanna Robinson TM.

In an abandoned car park, the doctor just whips a wig out of his pocket to play justice. And did you think of me fondly in this moment, Mallory? I mean, of course, immediately, instantly, instinctively. As the doctor was invoking shadow proclamation protocols 15P and 6, I was ready to Vogue Whigwatch TM with Joanna Robinson. DM. This is where our listener Randy points out how much this episode is Taylor made for us. Was it just me or did they specifically outline the episode to cater to the house of our brand? We get a cute cat-like being.

I hit my poll. We get a fun shout out for the low-budget effect segment, those Rath suits. A wig watch ready wig prop plus an automatic coffee machine for Mal. we were one apple short of perfection. Though I was watching half-blood prints the other day, Mallory, and I just thought of you as Draco put a perfect Granny Smith apple in a vanishing cabinet. All right. Testing the pathway for death eaters to enter.

So, yeah. Better race with apple than birds, I have to say. Joe, I just like, I do need you to spend one more moment reflecting on what it means that the doctor is just carrying this wig with at all times because that's the only would deduction at all times this wig is a doctor's person given how skinny and clingy the suit is which has made mention several times one has to imagine that there is like Tartis-esque bigger Mary Poppins bag bigger on the inside pocket inside the jacket there and is it just full of wigs who's to say but it's definitely like you know like a bag of holding hold like has a ton of shit in there

like Hermione's beaten bag. There's just a lot of comparisons we can make. But yeah, I hope it's just wigs. I hope there's just one, like there's probably several pockets inside the jacket. And one of them is just the designated wig pocket. And then like, yeah, we get the meep twist. You already mentioned the needle like teeth come out. Miriam Margulies let off the leash is just incredible.

Here they come, my soldiers of the psychedelics. I need every single second of footage of her in whatever recording booth she was in doing this MEEP performance because quite extraordinary. Wild stuff. There's barely a moment from here where we're not hearing like a hail to the meme. I don't know why this is actually from the from Zorgoth, Sergeant Zorgoth's explanation. I don't know why this got me so much, but in the explanation of what happened to Meepkind, the phrase,

it renders them as maniacs, just like slayed me. Just also every single mention of the psychedelic son. Yeah, absolutely got me. It rends them as maniacs. Yeah, and I love how, like, sophisticated the wrath warriors were. They got Lord Weatherby from Bridgeton to voice. one of them and it's just sort of like when he's just sort of like let's retire from service anyway

and then the meep is like no stun guns for me just die fuck you on the way to the ship the doctor and the don and the rest are are in are in the truck and again Donna calls herself stupid right she says ever since he arrived it's like I'm so stupid Sean immediately hops in with no no you're not, thank you. And then we get another mention of the lottery conversation. And she says, people are in danger and in pain and fear and I could help. It just felt like the sort of thing he would do. Another sort of step towards Donna's awakening. I really liked this. Yeah. I thought this was really excellent. Yeah. And like we get the comedic payoff for me. Like I gave away my money for you. What the fuck later. Her first words. Incredible. Really. Because like you have this real, like,

emotional foundation here behind this idea. And she's just like, frankly, how dare you I gave away $166 million? Like, and this is an outrage and a scandal. And she is right. But this was beautiful. Like, not only because it's important to establish and there's like glimpses and glimpses and glimpses throughout the episode that built toward eventually her saying, The Doctor.

And Sylvia's like, fuck, she called him the doctor. But to show us, like from a plot perspective to show us how much of these memories are surfacing and are present in Donna's consciousness still or subconsciousness that are filtering their way up. And just like that, again, that saves someone idea, right? And for Donna to have like imparted that wisdom to him to Tan and then for like her to call back to this being a lesson that she would want to carry on on his behalf, like just seemed like the sort of thing he would do, like try to help people. I love that idea of the circle of like their impact. act on each other. But also I love that like that this is the doctors, he does it, I think,

four, three or three times interrogation of why. Why did you do that exactly? Because he's like, here's a thing that's out of character for the Donna that I know. And so what is still alive and at work in her brain that is connecting her to the time we spent together? Right. I also thought there was like a little, a little ember of, but like, I set you up. This was the thing I did for you to, like, absolve us. 100%. A guilt that has obviously plagued me since, but this was my wedding present. What happened?

My blood money, my guilt money. Just gave it away. Back with the beep. I just got a shout out one more time. This whole speech and then a bunch of techno babble, which, yes, we get so much neck, no babble in this episode, but coming off of the season of Loki, I am wholly unfazed. And I just have to shout out the phrase, brandish the gravity stentions. Gravity stanchions, brandish.

Just incredible. Shirley shows up, her chair has darts and a rocket launcher, and I hope a million other things that we get to see in many episodes to come. Same. Great shit from Shirley. Donna sends the family off and says, I've got to help. As you mentioned, she says the doctor and Sylvia's like, oh, fuck, here we go, right? Oh, boy. And then we're here.

We're in the control room of the ship. The doctor's scampering about a glass barrier lowers, and we have to, of course, this is not a direct wolf reference, but it's a wolf reference. We have to think about wolf and the doctor on either side of the glass. I just need everyone to know that Joanna put this in our outline as a gif, and I barely handle it. It's like a little waving through the barrier. I don't know what possessed me. They're all great, but this one, this is just top dear.

So this is where the dot, as we mentioned, Donna's conception of what her world is starts to expand, right? So she says, like, my daughter's down, do whatever you've got to do. like, oh shit, I'm going to have to activate the Dr. Donna in order to save London. London being like actively severed by lava furrows that definitely collapsed several buildings and killed many people. Seemed fine at the end. Re-sealed itself.

Fudge was like, oh, well, the street happened. Street got a crack and now it doesn't have one anymore. But Donna says, and it's not just Rose, it's nine million people who cares about me. So re-expansion of her world with that added constant self-deprecation that we want to talk Dawn out of. And 14 says, of course, like, I do. I care about you. Right. Oh, man.

The scream of I do and no, you're not. Why does it have to be this? Tantrum. Yes, a vintage tantrum. I thought that what Donna said here. it's interesting your right to trace that through line of like diminishing herself in some way. But the note that was most powerful to me here was just like willing sacrifice that Donna doesn't have. We talked obviously earlier about the idea of protector, but even without like a full retention and grasp of this long legacy of helping other people, there's just something innate in Donna that like leads her to want to protect her.

and save and sacrifice and that she does it like willingly and without hesitation for Rose, but also for all those other people. It's like a kind of coming together and culmination of all these different strands that have been surfacing through the episode. I agree with you. I just think that there's a way as Donna's number one advocate and best friend and fondest fan, I would love Donna to have a way to say that that doesn't include who cares about me. Right. Like, I'm willing to sacrifice.

I'm really great. Yeah. It sucks that I have to go. But I'm really great. And you know what's great about me? I'm willing to do this to save my daughter and nine million people. I'm the best. Let me prove it. Yeah.

Here we go. In further fashion. By sacrificing myself to save everyone. Once he throws his tantrum. Yeah. The doctor hits us with the old winter soldier. Mentoring kid activation words. You thought that you were going to have like the most defining hour of your life and then they threw some Bucky Barnes in there for you.

Just for me. Westerly, Pelican, Dreams, Tornado, Clifftops, Andante, grief, fingerprint, cussarit. Also cussaration is one of my favorite words because of a Terry Pratchett book I read once. Sparrow, dance, Mexico, binary. I did that with the Donna's accent binary. London's half dropping into a fiery pit at this moment. London's in rough shape. Don't worry about it.

It's grim. But the Dr. Donna is back. And as you mentioned, the lottery is the first thing on our mind. I just want to hear this whole thing. Steve, will you play us? The Dr. Donna returned. I gave away my money. in 75.

Right, but... I gave away all my money. And do you know why, Doctor? I gave it away to be like you. So I could be kind, so it could be nice, so I could be helpful. I could. Why?

I had a subconscious, infracutaneous, retrofold memory loop making me act as soft as you and give away 166 million. £10. Yes, Donna, but destruction of London? Oh, I'll show you destruction, mate.

I will triple drive the particle manifesto, overstep the underlicable feed, vindicate the cyber line and roast the hyperfeed. Like this! Maximize the stress bolt lint! Channel on the booster drive, Positrons! How long have I got to live? Fifty-five seconds. Thirty, twelve, eleven, ten. best 55 seconds of my life because I get to do this.

Donna Noble is descending. I want to laugh and cry and run around the room all the same time. It's intense. I'm feeling a lot of feelings. Yeah. We get just like Donna snarky hilarity, the return of the Dr. Donna, which we get with the, oh yes. 10 impression.

And Donna Noble is descending, a payoff of her earlier promise to her daughter and an instantly iconic catchphrase. I always like, sometimes I mutter to myself, Donna Noble has left the library. Donna Noble has been saved. It's just like, it's my Bucky Barnes activation phrase, but I might replace it with Donna Noble is descending. It's just incredible stuff. So good.

the beat, like the pause before best 55 seconds of my life, it's an amazing thing when a book or a show or a film or play, anything, like can capture and pay off and honor, like, all of your investment in an arc and like a shared experience. And when we hear that, like, I love that especially because we've met Donna's family. Again, she's doing this to protect them. There's not a single part of you that's like,

yeah, but what about your family? Because this is who Donna is and how Donna should be able to live her life. Like with all of this as a part of her experience, right? And I, you know, it's just to think back to the moment where her memories and thus like her full sense of self and identity and purpose and intention and life is like ripped away from her. And the way that she said, I want to stay.

I want to stay. Like, there was never a part of Donna that wanted this or was okay with this. I was going to travel with you forever. I was going to try. It was going to make you forever. Forever. Forever. And so, like, to get to hear her say that,

past 55 seconds of my life and for us to know how true that is, it's just like very special. It's healing. I feel healed. I'm really glad. The deep burning lava cracks that have been running through my heart ever since I saw Donna Noble. Like the streets of London, they have been just sealed right back up. No problems.

No damage. No dead people. Like Donna collapses. We get this very emotional but temporary. Why did this face come back? I don't know, to say goodbye. Yeah. Good fun, though.

Interesting. And then Rose shows up. And here we go. This is the big moment that everyone is talking about. There's a couple things that happen in a row here, right? So things I like. I like the explanation that one brain can't hold all of the metacrisis energy, but it has been genetically passed down to Rose.

so it can be sort of spread out over to people. This feels very RTD to me, but I'm not mad about it. I like that this explains why she chose the name Rose. That is not just like a random coincidence, this lingering time lordiness. Shed as the Tartis thing feels a bit of a stretch, but that's okay. And then get out of the way, Neil Patrick Harris, or Lady from Dubai or whoever, I want to be first in line for the Ood Plush, right? So that is important to be.

That is important to me. The idea of Rose's gender identity being somehow involved is interesting, but feels more like Russell T. Davis noted that he used the word binary at the end of Donna's run and then just sort of like morphed it into this. But maybe it's not for me. So I have a listener email to read here, and I will acknowledge that. But we're binary. She's not because the doctor's male and female and neither.

and more. So we got this email from Bethany, who identifies as they, them. And Bethany wrote, it felt like the gender binary and its malleability was finally being addressed, and not just as if the doctor's gender or identity needs to be inclusive of both male and female, but also recognition that gender for the doctor or anyone can be, quote, neither and more as well. More importantly, it gave me permission to view the doctor as an avatar for that experience of being neither and more in my own life.

And those avatars are so few and far between. So it made me cry. This experience is so rarely addressed in media. And so I have it discussed in a show that has meant the most to me throughout my life felt really special. Felt really, really special. And, you know, who am I to, you know, it matters to me that it matters to people. And so then it matters, you know. Yeah, absolutely.

And like, it's a beautiful thing to, inside of a story and inside of a, you know, universe that is about vastness and like the vastness of possibility to not only make room for but like center and showcase all sorts of different experiences and like to take gender identity gender expression your sense of self your ability to find like comfort and belonging and acceptance in your life and with the people around you and like make that a power and a superpower and a healing power is like is is going to be like so meaningful to so many people. I think that's lovely. I got so emotional when Rose later said like that she felt like herself for the first time.

Incredible. Yeah. That's awesome. That really got to me. Uh, Wolf reference number four, we're just going to zoom past, but there's another one here. Um, and then before it leaves the MEEP gives us a little tease for a future episode or arc perhaps even. A creature with two hearts is such a rare thing. just wait till I tell

the boss Who's the boss? The doctor says cryptic, I hate that. So there's a couple possibilities. Yeah. One, as you said, we know Neil Patrick Harris is playing a character who is probably in the third episode,

likely, since they're keeping the second one so mysterious and we've seen a bunch of him in the trailer. Right. That feels kind of low rent for a tease like this, And I almost think that we're going to get the payoff of this in Shudigat was season. Yeah. That the boss is going to be the big bad of an entire season feels more appropriate to me.

I agree. This feels like a setup beyond just these few specials, like a force that we're going to be contending with for some time here. And then here's the next bit about gender that I, as a cis woman, feel qualified to say I just did not like. I thought it was a really weird undercutting of this beautiful expression of gender fluidity that just came before it. Just very silly and odd to me. And I love this email we got from Dreia, who titled her email. My thoughts on The Doctor Who Special is a woman who has never let anything go. Oh, man.

Incredible. Why wouldn't Donna and Rose as two extremely capable women want to try to find a way to keep their knowledge? knowledge and power. Throughout the episode, we talk a lot about gender, especially the doctor's fluidity. It felt important for RTD to clarify the doctor can be of any gender, ethnicity, race, etc., which is why the presumption that the doctor being a woman would have made a difference really frustrated me. The whole point is that how the doctor presents does not matter. What matters that they're still the doctor at the end of the day, they're brilliant, dramatic, a little weird, and a whole lot of empathetic regardless of gender. Pretending that being a woman would change this does not sit well.

This is like such a weird moment that I just really didn't like. Very strange. Bizarre. But again, right after that, Rose is like, I feel like myself the first time. And I'm like back on being like, this is beautiful. And Sean being like, I'm so lucky. And I'm like, you are, Sean. This is amazing.

All right. Here we are at the end of all things. At the end of this episode. It felt to me like very end of Peter Pan when Wendy has grown up has had her adventures with Peter Pan. And then her daughter goes off to Neverland when Rose is like, I just want to see inside the TARDIS. And, you know, there's a version of the story where that happens, except Donna is not Wendy. And she's like, no, no, no.

Because something will go wrong. You'll end up on Mars with Chaucer and a robot shark. And that's actually happened, hasn't it? And the doctor's like, oh, yeah. And then we get our final wolf reference that feels like a promise to me. Yes. It better be. It better be.

But I was thinking to go and see Wilf. Now that is cheeky. Just a suggestion. Sylvia's not excited. But imagine his face of him. Oh, he would be so happy. All those secrets granddad kept for years.

He thought I'd never remember. And to see the doctor one last time. And tentative to strike this hilarious matching like puppy dog eye posture at Sylvia. It's so funny. meanwhile I am weeping also. I'm laughing and weeping. And the fluid and like organic speed from which they went from like

not being on the same page, right? Yeah. No. Yeah, that's really happy, hasn't it? To like being totally and utterly conspiratorial and in cahoots with just the eyebrow waggles and knowing how to play Sylvia. It's just like, they're back.

They're back. My favorite duo. They're back and Sean is not concerned. Sean is not worried. And I love this flip on like the the running gag of season four, which I didn't like, which is like Donna is trying to flirt,

is undesirable, is like, you know, this whole thing. She was always rejecting the doctor. But like, there were all these jokes at her expense. And I love that Sean's like,

oh, I'm not worried because it's like, it's him. He's not a threat to me. I'm like, love you, Sean. And also just like the partners are always so jealous.

And like, of course, like, who among us. But yeah, Mickey and Rory. And it's like, oh,

oh, uh, it's like there was something really cool about Sean just being like, I trust you. You're good. Go have the adventure you deserve. We already talked for the new TARDIS design. We don't have to linger here. We can explore it further in the future. He says, I just can't have the coffee machine that close to the control. That'll be the last thing I say about it. Simply, simply not. Most assuredly not. And well, what I love is that one comment I saw on some, I don't know, either on our YouTube video or

right it somewhere, someone was like, I think she did that on purpose, meeting the Tartner. The TARDIS, like the TARDIS, put the coffee machine there. So there would be a spill. So they could go off on a bigger adventure. That's great. The doctor says, I'm so glad you're back because it killed me, Donna. It killed me. It killed me.

It killed me. And someone pointed out that there's a kill me for every regeneration in between the 10th and 14th doctor. This is where we get something extremely mysterious because Donna is trying to make this play of like, you're back. We can be pals. we can hang out all the time you've been given a second chance you can do things different at this time why don't you do something completely new

and have some friends first and foremost we need to get Donna the DVD box sets of the 11th and 13th Doctors episodes because these are doctors who had friends

so this is this has happened she's basically making the pitch of being the pawns for this doctor but like showing up for dinner he has done this already but even then like even 11 showing up at the ponds

for dinner and they're like, we set a place for you all the time. And he's like, you do? You know? Even then, there's just this chasm between them. But he's like, yeah, maybe, yeah. And there's just something about 10's face. Sorry, 14's face. That makes me think that like he knows something.

Like he's asking throughout the whole episode, why this face, why this face? But there's something about this. That's either like classic doctor emotional constipation or he knows something. else. Our listener Maddie pointed out that Donna asked the doctor in an email. Donna asked the doctor why this face came back. And the doctor replies

that he doesn't know, but that he's stuck with it. I felt that he said this with some frustration and bitterness, which is different from how he reacted earlier in the episode. When he was talking to Shirley, he seemed confused, not upset. This made me wonder why he would now be so frustrated to have an old face back.

It especially stuck out to me because the 10th doctor did not want to go when he regenerated. Maddie wrote another very lengthy email that I need to share with you about how the doctor and Donna definitely are going to fuck in this anniversary special, including many pieces of evidence for many interviews that they've given. Oh, boy. I don't agree. However, I love the energy from this, from you, Maddie. I love this. Don't tell Sean.

I also am a shipper at heart. I do believe in the doctor Dona just being friends but I would never stop someone's ship so you shine on you crazy diamond Maddie and keep on doing what you do and then the turn of breaks and we close it.

We can end up anywhere in time and space dun dun dun lots of flashing colors sparks great flames and we're done and we're off incredible another event

Mere days from our next adventure. I can't wait. Mere days. Mallory, anything else you want to say? I know we're right out of time. Anything else you want to say about this episode, Dr. Who? I just feel so thrilled and so delighted to get to watch this and to get to share this with you. And I hope everyone out there remembers you were beaten by the Dr. Donna.

Oh, my God. Thank you so much to Stephen Allman back. on the soundboard for this episode. Please remember always that Mallory Rubin would happily support a great day for Meep Kind and the start of a new rate of terror as the meat returns to the stars for revenge and feasting. Now activate the initializers. Thanks to our Jorna Rukhpah.

First production work on this episode. Thanks to Jomey and dinner on the social. Mallory, I love you truly and always, and we will be back next week. For an episode, I know nothing about Wild Blue Yonder. I'm very excited. We'll see you then. Bye.