House of R - ‘Doctor Who’ Christmas Special: “The Church on Ruby Road”

Episode Date: December 25, 2023

Mal and Jo are back to discuss “The Church on Ruby Road,” this year’s ‘Doctor Who’ Christmas special, and how it stacks up against the show’s holiday specials of years past (6:41). Then they dive deep into the episode that introduces the series’ newest companion, Ruby Sunday (18:03). Hosts: Mallory Rubin and Joanna Robinson Producer: Kai Grady Additional Production: Arjuna Ramgopal Social: Jomi Adeniran Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Galaxy Lights, Coachella, Lightning Bolt Necklaces. 20203 was the year of Scandival. On March 3rd, one cheating scandal launched a reality TV investigation that generated hundreds of conspiracy theories, thousands of podcast episodes, and millions of dollars in revenue. I'm Jody Walker, host of an American Scandival. One retrospective story told in three salacious parts. Listen, December 26th on the Ringer Reality Feast. feed.

The playoffs are here and you can predict the action all the way to the finals with Fandul predicts. Predict the spread, total points, and even the game winner. Sign up and get a $25 bonus. Offered by Fandul prediction markets LLC, a registered futures commission merchant, 18 plus. Bonus is non-withdrawable and expire seven days after receipt. Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tool.

Restrictions apply. See terms at Fandul.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business to keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 US-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. Okay. Name the doctor. Occupation, not a doctor. Client status just passing by.

I'm sorry, myself, address that blue box over there. Now, if you don't mind, I just got snowmaned and I would like to go home. Doctor what would that be? Just the doctor. Welcome back to House of R. Guess what? It is our last podcast of 2023. I'm Joanna Robinson. joining me today.

Freshly snowmanned, just wanting to head home. It's Mallory Rubin. Hi, Mallory, how you doing? Joe, health and safety, gin and tonic division. We're here to talk about the Church on Ruby Road before we get into that episode and sort of like a little tiny bit of a retrospective on our year of who. Nothing formal planned, but we've been doing this all year. So might as well bring some of that to bear

as we discussed this episode. Program reminders. This is our last part of the year, but it is not the last pot of the year from the Ringers' Crew because there's a couple other things coming up for you this holiday week. The Rare Universe Live show

where the entire gang got together in L.A. at Halloween to do a fun little live show. That's going up online. A treat from way back in October. I know. A version of TimeTree. travel. Here we go. Everyone loves to hear about our Halloween costumes in December, right? Here we go.

Rigiverse Live show. Also, one of my favorite pod traditions, the midnight mulligans, the midnight boys, going back over the year, thinking about the midnight meter scores that they gave various things and maybe reconsidering some of their choices and decisions. You know, the midnight mulligans. We love it. Always a classic. And then a button mash best of 2023. If you are, you know, have some gift cards looking to spend them, wondering what video games you want to buy, like all sorts of stuff. What should I play over the holiday break to pass the time? Buttonmash crew will have some thoughts and feelings for that. Huge gaming year.

A lot to go over. I'm going to play Mario Wonder over the holiday, Joe. Just FYI, in case you're wondering. Should I try to name all the video games that I know came out this year? It'll be short. Here we go. Bouldersgate. Good work.

Gollum, the terrible gollum. Oh, wow. Yeah, indeed. Famously on a House of Our Hight Meter. There was a Spider-Man one. Yep. That might be all I have. Come on.

You know Zelda came out this year. Oh, Zelda. Yes, Zelda came out this year. There's a new Star Wars game, Jedi Survivor. Jedi Survivor, sure. Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Why not listen to people who know more about video games? Buttonmash.

It'll be waiting for you. That's a lot. There's a lot of treats right at the end of the year. I mean, there's only a few more days left of the year. Mallory, how can folks keep track of everything that's coming from us? Thanks for asking. My first recommendation would be to follow the pod. Really? Follow this pod, House of R, on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast.

Follow the ringerverse on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. While you're at it, follow the ringerverse on the social media platform of your choosing. We are on Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, there's a legitimate full music video Christmas Carol, a holiday carol from the team and from the mind of Jomey waiting for you. So check that out. Just by the way, it is an incredible production. And for the like three people who are like, where is Joanna?

Just so you know, Jomey asked me to do this. And I just dropped the ball at the end of the year. So my voice is on there. Your audio's in there. My audio's in there. But Ben Lindberg from afar showed up with like full supporting dog, like just great stuff. And I just let Jomey down. So Jomey Wood, Joe Me is amazing. My apologies for letting the team down. But everyone is incredible, full of festive share. Last thing we want to say, well, hopp and drag is and gmail.com. Yeah. Yeah. If you have thoughts on future musical productions, if you have thoughts on Dr. Who. If you have Percy Jackson, thoughts, theories, questions, anything about the year that was or the year to come. Thoughts on the Apple Wars.

If you want to sign it with your pickle, send us your emails. We haven't talked about apples in a minute. I know. Blister's the size of apples in this Doctor Who special. Which kind? Or what kind of apple? Inquiring minds want to know. Yeah.

You can send that question. You can send your guests. Hobbiton dragons at gmail.com. We're in a great place today. Crisp podcasting so far. It's the last part of the year. We're loose. I should say we don't have any emails on the pod today

just because we're recording this a little early. Banking. We have received several, like, very sweet end of year emails from people just saying, like, thanks for hanging out and watching stuff with us this year. And we would like to thank you for hanging out and watching stuff with us this year and listening to us talk about it. Thank you. Thank you, bad babies.

You all are the best. You all are the best. best. We love you. Last but not least, spoiler warning. All of Doctor Who that has ever existed, half of which Mallory and I have never seen, but just in theory, that's on the table. But up through the church on Ruby Road. That is the spoiler warning. We don't know anything about the upcoming seasons. I have one casting bit of news, but other than that, nothing. So let us go straight to the snapshot. So this is our first full-length episode of Doctor Who, with. Chitigatwa as the doctor and our proper intro to Millie Gibson as Ruby Sunday.

So we're just going to say really quickly sort of like big, like Tartis Eye point of view, like what did we think of the episode? Mallory Rubin. I regret to inform you and the listeners that I did not love this episode of television. I love Chudy. I am already just utterly captivated by the 15th doctor. I enjoyed my time with Ruby and the larger. Sunday squad. Cherry Sunday, I genuinely cannot wait to be back with Cherry again, Clara, as well.

The plot and pacing of the episode, everything with the goblins, the intelligent gloves, candidly even like the episode's examination of the idea of coincidence, which is something that I think intellectually, philosophically, existentially would appeal to me. didn't quite work for me in the episode. Just like something was a little off in terms of the execution, but in terms of spending time with the new character set

and seeing them make their way toward each other, that was great. Fitwatch, I have no notes. I have no notes. So there's plenty to enjoy, but it was not my favorite installment of Doctor Who.

And I think, you know, honestly, one of the things I was reflecting on is that like, the nature of our rewatch for you, first watch for me, our beautiful year-long shared journey and the TARDIS together because we were talking about

either full seasons or full runs for certain doctors, we weren't always parsing a single episode this deeply. So like there are, it's an inconsistent journey, right? Some episodes are historic pantheon installments and summer are less great.

And so nothing about, and I think frankly often like the intro episodes are a little choppy. And so nothing about it at all concerned me for the season that awaits, It's genuinely nothing. Because the first minute with a new group can, it's an adjustment, typically. Mallory and I are mostly on the same page.

Love shooting in this episode. Thought he was incredible. Like, start to finish. So good. So excited to spend more time with his doctor. And I think we got. Same. This is something we were talking about before.

We got his full debut because we get these moments with him in the giggle, the last of the anniversary specials, where we can see him be charming and funny and empathetic. Like, that's all there. But it was sort of ramped up. to, you know, especially like the emotion, the emotional aspect ramped up this episode. This episode opens with him with tears in his eyes, right? And so that's something we value in a doctor is like, can be funny and adventurous, but also deeply emotional. So getting to see those sides of him.

And then like, you know, action doctor. I had already seen the clip of him running across the roof after Ruby dangling from the ladder. Like that had been circulating for a while. but I still just like really admired as a personally a very clumsy person. I just like really admired his grace as he just like was hurtling over chimneys and not even looking. I mean, I know he was like probably doing that on a green screen. I'm not saying he was on a real roof.

But it just like to not look and hurdle over things, doesn't that require some skill? Yeah. But I agree with Mallory that I had like this is not my favorite episode. And it made me think about especially since we did. this year-long watch, various other Christmas specials, and something that we sort of discovered out of the Moffat era of our rewatch, which I hadn't considered when I was watching Moffat in the first place, was how good his Christmas specials are.

And even you and I were texting about this a little bit yesterday, and even since then I was thinking more like, why are the Moffat Christmas specials so good? And I think it's because this is the thing he was always good at, which are these, like, contained one episode, stories and it's when the mythology got larger and sort of boggier that like he lost some of that magic. But when like Moffitt was writing standalone episodes for the Russell T. Davies era, that's, I think, some of the best stuff that Doctor Who has ever been. And those episodes are just steeped in that like

fairy tale essence as well, which Moffat has such a feel for. Yeah, I agree. The Moffat era Christmas specials are superior certainly. Trying to think in like a clear-eyed way without the nostalgia lens about the Russell T. Davis Christmas specials of the past. And I was like, you know, if I'm being fully honest with myself, Christmas Invasion, which is the introduction of David Tenet's doctor. Like, I love that episode, but I really only love it for like the last 10 minutes because when the doctor, when Tenet shows up. Right. You know what I mean?

Also, another in the sky episode. Well, yes, and a starring role for a cup of tea. Very true. Yeah. Okay. All right. This felt like it had a lot, even though the 50s. The 15th Doctor is awake the whole episode.

This felt like it had a lot in common with Christmas Invasion. And just remembering that, like, most of Davis' Christmas Invasion episodes are, like, these mannequins have come to life. These snowmen have come to, like, these angels on the Titanic have come to. You know, it's like, this is, this feels very of a piece. And it's not, I think, the thing that he is the very best at. But, and then as an introduction, Christmas invasion has the benefit of, we already know, Rose and Jackie and Mickey and all of that. So, like, you know, we were already well-versed in some of the

characters in that episode. How does this compare to something like Rose, which is when we meet Rose and the ninth doctor or 11th hour, which I think is one of the best episodes of Dr. Here where we meet Matt Smith's doctor and Amy Pond or any of the other intro episodes? Like, where does this stack up compared to those, you know? It's like a question. I think the intros are, man, Boy, success rate varies considerably. I think that what's different here is that we actually got a decent chunk of time with Shudy, with the 15th Doctor in The Giggle due to the by-generation handoff. Like, that was a third of the episode, ish.

So in some ways, I think this, it's still the first standalone episode. the introduction of the new companion. I mean, the episode ends with like new home, new who, right? This is the dawn in the beginning of something that is a distinct experience. But we enter it knowing what it feels like to be with this version of the doctor. So it had a slightly less ambitious task, I think, actually, than some of the prior introductions. So I don't know. Maybe that's actually weirdly part of why it didn't work.

as well. I don't know if that's counterintuitive, but like it's not the same, oh my God, I'm experiencing this for the first time. You lose a little bit of that magic of the very first glimpse of something. For me, the intro to 11 is by a comfortable margin, the best first episode for a new director. It is sensational. Fish fingers and custard for the win. And I think also by a comfortable margin, the introduction to 12, who as you know, I wound up in a deep and I I think abiding love affair with and Holden sincere esteem. That is the worst first episode. Yes, correct.

I agree. It was like a struggle to get through that and a real buried entry for a doctor who I ended up absolutely adoring. Yeah, I do think deep breath is the least successful as well. But even deep breath has that like stopping look at his face in the mirror part of it. And I think what's interesting is that like one thing we're missing from this, I mean, it's also not in rows because presumably not. had been the doctor for a bit before we meet him in Rose, but we're not getting that, I'm regenerating who am I? The space that we usually get with, you know, the doctors of like, you know, what color is my hair?

What kind of person am I? This doctor just sprung forth from the by generation fully formed, fully confident, fully assured in his personality. And there's something about that that I love. But it's something that's different from what's come before. And then as a companion introduction, I think probably if I had to pick like a companion introduction episode, I think Rose is an incredible introduction to Rose Tyler. I think once you like have fallen in love with Donna Noble, the runaway bride is a great introduction to Donna, like to go back and rewatch it. And then the pilot, the introduction of my beloved Bill, like those are three, I think, incredibly successful companion introductions.

And then like Amy in 11th hour. 11th hour is just like, it's its own, in its own, like, stratosphere. I will say, just to add to your initial reaction to the episode, I have some questions about Mellia's Ruby Sunday because they're pulling so much from the Rose Tyler playbook with Ruby Sunday, right? This is like a scrappy blonde teen, like working class sort of thing. But without that sort of like, she says, I mean, we'll get into this. I don't mean to like hop ahead into this.

the episode, but like, she says I'm waiting for my life to begin. Yeah. But I don't know that I'm feeling that Rose Tyler, I want more energy from her as much. She's so happy with her home life, all this sort of stuff. So, like, you know, anyone would probably run away in the Tartis, but oftentimes when someone runs away in the Tartis, like, there's a reason. There's something they're running towards or running away from. And with Ruby, there's intriguing mystery.

and there's a bunch of stuff going on. But, like, I'm not, I'm not, like, completely locked in there. And something that made me question, I don't know. I read this just, like, last week that Jonah Howard King, who played Prince Eric in the most recent Little Mermaid, if you enjoyed that film, is joining as, like, possibly a secondary companion. I don't know when, whether he's coming in the end of the season or is going to be in the following season.

But I was already, I was like, oh, is that a vote of no confidence in Millie's Ruby Sunday? Or is that just like a standard Rory's and the TARDIS now kind of thing? Like, I don't know what that move is, but it just sort of pinged for me as sort of like, okay, like, did they feel like this dynamic between these two needed an extra bit of spice or what? So we have very little to go on. It's a character type that I really like. And I just like want to spend more time before I fully know. but I'm not like immediately all the way in, if that makes sense. But we're going to do, I mean, that's where we are.

We're going to do the House of Our thing, though, and mostly celebrate what we loved about this episode. It's not going to be, if you love this episode, we're not going to just spend the next, like, hour, two hours shitting on it, I promise. That's not our vibe. But let's get into, I'm not going to call it a deep dive. Let's get into the medium dive. Yeah, yeah, a toe dip into the TARDIS. All right, you invoked that sort of. of Moffitt-esque fairy tale 11th hour feeling.

We get strong vibes here because we start with Once Upon a Time. So it's Christmas Eve, December 24th, nearly 19 years ago. And let's have a listen. Kai, will you play this clip for us, please? Once upon a time, late on Christmas Eve, a stranger came to the church on Ruby Road. She carried in her arms the most precious gift of all. A newborn child, a baby girl.

Just before midnight, she left her daughter on the steps of the church. The child was taken in, and they named her Ruby after the place where she was found. As for the mother, she was never seen again. No one ever knew her name. Until that night, a time traveler came to call, a traveler known as the doctor. Wonderful intro, a lot of mystery. As I mentioned, this is, we first see the doctor and he's got tears in his eyes. So you're like, what happened?

What happened to put the tears in the doctor's eye? That's like an episode long mystery for us to solve. But then we get right away, in addition to the Moffod-esque fairy tale territory, we're in Moffat, sort of mystery box territory, because we've got this mysterious, putted figure. Yes. Could be Ruby's birth mother. Could be literally anyone. There's no rule that says this has to be your actual birth mother. What do you make about, you know, like, how does this feel to have this who is Ruby's?

who are her parents' question hanging over the series right from the start? I liked this aspect of the episode for a couple different reasons. I think we'll reserve further commentary on the doctor's version of this until we get some of the more emotional beats for 15 later in the episode, talking about being alone, being abandoned, etc. But I like the... I always enjoy when a character is on an individual journey that also creates a joint journey with somebody else in their life, right?

And so that is this for them. Both Ruby and the doctor are confronting this question. Where did I come from? Who am I? Why did somebody choose to give me away? Did they choose to give me away? Do I understand and really have a grasp of, like, what my own history is? And what would it mean to confront that and find that out?

So the simultaneous desire to know and learn with like a little bit of the mixed intrepidation. This is a thing they share, right, this question. Weird do I come from. Yeah. I also like that I think there are a lot of stories where we meet a child who is, was foster or has been adopted. And this question of who are my birth parents? I need to find my birth parents is presented to us in conjunction with an unhappy home, right? And so I really, really, really love seeing a family that is a happy family.

Like, Clara is a wonderful mother for Ruby, and Ruby is a wonderful child for Clara. And Jerry is there just making us laugh with a singer after singer the whole way. And those things don't have to be mutually exclusive. The desire to find out what your history is doesn't mean that you're not maybe content with at least this aspect of your current life. And so I appreciated that. So I like the setup. I like this aspect of the plot. How about you? I loved this as an opener. I was like all the way in. There's a couple things. Also just a baby left on the porch. You know, I mean, come on. We're right. I'm never going to, I'm never going to not enjoy a little Harry comp like that. I haven't, well, and also like we get some, you know,

like baby Jesus also vibes off, you know, Jesus, Harry Potter. whatever you prefer, whoever your personal Messiah may be. I have a note for the cloaked person and also for the doctor, which is if you're going to leave a child on a doorstep, I need a little bit more protection between the child and the literal snow on the ground. You want something more like the box at the fire station and the curse. I need a box, a bassinet. I don't care. Or if you don't have anything,

If you're pressed for time, just take your foot and just sort of brush the snow back and forth off the ground a bit so that we're not putting the baby directly on top of snow. That's my note for people who leave babies at churches and firehouses. Number two. I have like two quick holiday things for you. Number one. My best friend sent me a text. I think it was last night. Weird.

I don't remember sending you a text about the holidays last night. Tough way to find out I'm not your best friend. One of my closest friends. One of just a few close friends. And it reminded me of Russell T. Davis, who's trying to engage in a more magical, I think, treatment of Doctor Who this time than he did the first time. She texted me, happy solstice, the veils are thin, beware of tricksters. And I was just thinking about, like, the doctor being at the edge of the universe where the walls are thin and, like, you know, spilling the salt and stuff like that. It's just sort of like this idea of like, careful.

bad luck. What you invite in. This is like what's happening here. Yeah, happy Solis to everyone. This is a pre-record. The other holiday aside is Carol the Bells is playing in the background while all of this is happening as you heard on that clip.

As someone who has sung both soprano and alto in many different choirs, I'm just here to tell you. There is no song that will better explain the difference between being a soprano and alto than Carol the Bells because when you're soprano, you just sing the melody and it's very fun. And when you're an alto, you're just like, ding, dong, ding, ding, and donging the whole thing. And it's just like a real bummer. So I, or you're just singing one note. You're just holding the harmony one note part of Carol the Bells down.

Anyway, Carol the Bells, a traumatic Christmas Carol for every Alto out there in the world. And I just want to send my love and affection to all the Altoes out there. My goodness. This was a great musical episode. I mean, in certain respects, not. But in terms of the needle drops, let me clarify. Original music will be following up later, but in terms of the needle drops, there's some bangers early in the episode, we got some Merry Christmas, everyone,

by Shaken Stevens when Ruby got off the bus. I just like, this is amazing. The last thing I want to ask you, as an editor, Mallory, you're an editor, as a lover of precise language, how do you feel about the part of this speech that goes, no one ever knew her name, her being the could-a-figer, until that night a time-traveller came to call. Confounding. Utterly confounding.

A promise unfulfilled. Very odd. Yeah. Confusing in real time in the intro, and then... We don't come back to it. Befuddling when we get to the end of the episode and see that the doctor does not actually ask her her name. Interact with her at all.

Put-in-figure. Ask her the mother. She was never seen again. No one ever knew her name until that night of time traveler came to call. a traveler known as the doctor. If he hadn't said that night, if he said a night, then we could have left it open

for him looping back around to that night and catching up with her down the road as she walked very slowly away, it must be said, from the church. With seemingly no awareness that a goblin ship was crashing into the steeple of the church where she had just nestled a newborn child.

I'll just keep shuffling along in my dramatic cloak. That, I will say, the lack of awareness of the goblin, I know we're now talking about the end of the episode in the beginning. But that did make me wonder because, like you noted, this is right away. We're in theory corner territory with who the slow gate, the hood, right? Who is this?

The recurring question and examination and search throughout the episode. But the seeming lack of concern or awareness that something magical was happening, I was like, is this person not a human of earth? Oh yeah. Okay. So two things. Number one, we have no reason to believe that Ruby is a human. You know, like, I have zero. That is not, that is top of the theory corner. Are Ruby's parents not human? Like, everyone who has ever written a companion loves to make that companion very shiny

and special. And if the shiny special thing about Ruby is that she is somehow alien, I will not be surprised. I'll be zero percent surprise. If she's a robot, I'll be zero percent surprise. Like, this happens all the time, and Dr. Hipp. My theory corner contribution here And really the shoe wear

Kind of makes me question it Because but I was like are we Are we in Loki season two? Is this Ruby herself dropping baby Ruby off at the church? The problem is she's wearing heels and Ruby loves a boot So I don't know if if like if that's what we're looking at But I was like I would not be surprised If the hood comes off later and it's Ruby herself under the hood.

Yeah. I wondered about that. as well. Also, Adam was like, do we think Mrs. Flood is Ruby? I was like, I mean, maybe. I mean, it hadn't occurred to me, but it's... I'm not saying no. This Flood has definitely seen the TARDush before. We have a lot of Mrs. Flood questions. Yeah, I don't know that an adult Ruby would be that rude to the neighbors, though, so. But she's only briefly rude, and then she's just sunshine and light. And cheerful and winking at us breaking the fourth wall. I don't know. We're going to come back to her. Okay. Let's go now to December 1st, 2023.

And I would just say, for those worried that Doctor Who now being owned by Disney, that Dr. Who will become unbearably Americanized, may introduce you to British National Treasure Davina McCall, who Americans have no idea who the hell she is, but she's a running bit in this episode. She is a real TV presenter in the UK. We don't really have a comparably famous version of TV presenter here in the U.S. We have, like, people who host things. But it's not the same. level of fame as presenters have in the UK. Because you know who Ryan C. C. C. C.crest is, I guess. But, like, it's not the same as how famous these people are. Anyway, point being. National Treasure DeVina McCall. Hosts a show called Long, a real show called Long Loss Family. And so this is like Ryan C.crest meets Dr. Henry Lewis Gates.

But again, a national treasure, she has an MBE. This is a British icon that we Americans know have no idea who she is. So how did you enjoy meeting national treasurede Amateur DeVina McCall in Dr. Hoo? Good. You know, I studied abroad in London, so I had some familiarity. I don't know if I had quite the level of enthusiasm that you, a person who typed in all caps, know fewer than 15 times in the document National Treasure Devinna McCall had. But I was like, oh, yeah, there we go. DeVina McCall. Nice. Great. Glad that the doctor saved her at the end for being impaled by a holiday tree decoration. I know. This is like the version of the screenwriting version of Save the Cat. If you save National Treasure Devina McCall, like do you immediately endear yourself to audiences? I love it. Smart. So National Treasure Devon McCall is here. But also, as is Ruby Sunday. Yes. Ruby Sunday, can I just say a fantastic name? I mean, we're right back here in the Amy Pond River Song Ter.

It is lovely. I mean, Ruby Sunday is good. You're like, Ruby Sunday, that's pretty good. I'm enjoying that. And then you meet fucking Cherry Sunday. And you're like, well, I mean, Ruby Sunday's fine. But Cherry Sunday is the real deal. Cherry Sunday and then setting up Cherry to refer to herself while flirting with the doctor as a tasty little treat.

It's just unbelievable. But in terms of the standing the test of time over the course of a story, I think that Ruby Sunday is actually superior. This is just a great storytelling name. Are you a Rolling Stones fan? I know you love like. 60s and 70s music, are you? Okay. Yeah. Ruby Tuesday, feeling that?

Of course. So we meet her. She is, as of December 1st, 2023, 18, about to turn 19, which is about how old Rose Tyler was, right, when she went into the TARDIS. We're going to talk about Fit Watch throughout, but just like the 90s vibe coming off of Ruby Sunday and her red plaid slip dress over the baby white tea with the silver chains and the combat boots and the tights. And she has like permutations of that outfit. Like everything she wears this episode, she has like four different outfits. Are they different?

I don't know. Are like very 90s coded. What's your, what's your frustration? It won't shock you. I don't think to hear that I barely had a single thought on any of Ruby's outfits but was just raptured by the men's wear to consider on the doctor. It's just like, as you know, I spend most of my time personally wearing men's clothes. thing. So I was just like,

this is, I have so many thoughts on this leather jacket and these striped zipped jumpers. You're not really like a sneaker person, but not a boots person. I like a boot, but I don't really engage with boots. I think you were a boot scholar in a way that I am. I wouldn't say a scholar, but I do love a boot. You love a boot. You're a boot scholar. Of course you are. You love a jacket, though. She's got a little. leather like a little leather like aviator jacket with a collar. Are you into that? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I love a leather jacket. I mean, again, I just completely outdone inside of the episode by the astonishing, astonishing camel leather coat on 15, which is extraordinary. It might have, it might shoot to the top of my list of Dr. Coates. And then like it's so hard to compete with David Tennant's like iconic brown duster or Nines, black, leather jacket or, you know, 11's like Tweety, little numbers or whatever, or your favorite 12's,

like, many hooded, like, you know, moves and stuff like that. And, you know, also, uh, 12's, like, great jacket. Like, there's always, always doctors have great jackets. This might be my favorite. The way the leather moves, you know, it's just like different from anything we've seen before. It's incredible. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need weather tech floor liners in the summer, unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner. Or a road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer.

You don't need weather tech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. Did you know about one and three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriotic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling? Does this sound like you? Listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away. Trimfaya, guselcomab, taken by injection, is a prescription medicine for adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, who may benefit from taking injections or pills or phototherapy, and for adults with active psoriotic arthritis.

Serious allergic reactions and increased risk of infections and liver problems may occur. Before a treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or if you need a vaccine. Imagine being a million miles away. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimfaya. Tap this ad to learn more about Trimfaya, including important safety information. Davis used the long-loss family format to give us a quick, like, exposition, download.

I think not the most elegant exposition download I've ever experienced in my life, but we learn things about Ruby, her adoptive mother, the fostering, the foundling thing. We learn that she's maybe not the greatest student, either the move or whatever, but she didn't have grade A levels, her financial insecurity, all of that is in there. And then she gives us that like ripped directly from Mandy Moore entangled. I'm still waiting for my life to be. line, which again is just sort of like telling us, not showing us. All of this feels a very tell, don't show sort of thing. I love the idea of I think I'm just waiting for my life to begin and the eagerness of

a companion to explore and answer, you know, heed the call to go on the adventure and then the first place. The foundling exchange was, it was just in our Mandalorian era, impossible for me to not be thinking about Grogu that in time. higher time. I don't know if this was your experience as well. The foundling grogoo. I did think about Grogo when we started to hear the little like giggles and coos and garbles and shitters and chatters of the of the goblins as they start, you know. Those are sweet and endearing from Grogo and they were menacing and disturbing from these goblin horrors.

I know that you're the number one fan of trial by content, the podcast I do with Neil Miller and Dave Gonzalez. And since as Childlike guy is a number one fan, I know that you know that one of the bits of holiday trivia that we explored a couple weeks ago on the show was the concept of the Yule Lads, which is one of my favorite

most bonkers holiday traditions, which is these 13 mischievous Icelandic boys who come and cause havoc as part of Iceland's holiday tradition.

were you getting any Yulad vibes from the goblins here and their chitters and chatters? My awareness of the Yulad's traces back to exactly the podcast you just cited, which I spent the very enjoyable 90 minutes consuming the wall in traffic on the five about a week and a half ago. So it's, you know, it's new to me. It was top of mind, but it's new to me. I'll spend some time this holiday season maybe reflecting on the Yolad tradition. I did like the holiday hats on the goblins, though. It's great stuff. Yeah, interesting.

In case you thought that these goblins were going to be cute, all that goes out the window as soon as they cracked National Treasure DeVita McCall on the back of head with a rather sizable plug. Had to enter concussion, concussion. Yeah. After that. I mean, that was brutal. Oh, cold. All right.

Speaking of the little hats on the goblins, hat watch, 23, goes out on a high, high note. as the doctor in a broad-brimmed situation comes to watch Ruby Sunday play piano at a very festive-looking bar. Want to take us through the whole look? The hat, the coat. What else is going on here? The sensational red jumper under the leather coat. Actually, this is the checkered coat in this particular. Oh, you're right. You're right. This is the checker coat, which we don't get to spend a lot of time with, but was frankly remarkable. And the hat is, it's in our lives briefly, but it will remain in our memory forever. I think we can say that with certainty. Yeah, yeah.

Like an indie-esque cap? I hope that we see this again. I really do. It's halfway between Indiana Jones and the man with yellow hat from Curious George. It's like somewhere in between there. That's certainly better than anything that Kristen Cole ever brought into our lives. Though he, I mean, he really brought hat watch into our lives in many respects. It's the exact philosophical opposite of Kristen Cole's dumb hat is this, is this fabulous piece on his head.

But he's watching Ruby play piano. She's got an incredible red and black striped sweater situation. Again, very 90s. And the goblins are at it again. Just hijinks for days. Unplugging things is their favorite thing to do. They love cutting the power. Like Mr. Weasley.

Just love a plug. Love a plug. And then did it, I really went back and forth because, like, I don't want to be called out as mistaking two different nearly identical plaid slip dresses. But it really seemed like Ruby was right back in the same interview outfit when she's in the club a little bit in a different day. I was aided by the dates here because the interview is at the beginning of the month. December 1st. And then we go the holiday gigs the 22nd. then the 23rd.

So it's like, yeah, maybe she's recycling. She just loves this outfit. Or maybe it's just similar. Yeah, who can say. Yeah. No, no, I knew it's not the same day, but I was just sort of like, why are we? Okay, anyway, point being. This is where we get the shot from the trailer.

Yeah. New fit on the doctor. That's what matters. The doctor and the kilt and the, frankly, astonishing tank top situation. It's just incredible. It's wonderful. The slow-mo camera here. I mean, this was really captivating just in the preview for the episode, but there is actually something

that is genuinely. I mean, seeing the doctor dance, the outfit, it's all wonderful. We get to watch Ruby watch and you see that magnetic pull gripping somebody else in real time. But the doctor just feels and seems so free, like so unencumbered here. And, you know, we see later in the episode, again, this aspect of what is, where do I come from? It was my family that is actually weighing on the doctor. But this is a moment where you feel this just saying. of not only like a thirst for life, but a lightness, a lightness that feels like such a notable

way for us to think of who this doctor is and where we are meeting this doctor that I thought was really like wonderful and wondrous to behold. I loved it. I think the closest we have to that, because that was certainly not the case with either of the doctors that Russell wrote before because they were heavily burdened by the time war. I think the closest comp we have is to Matt Smith is the 11th doctor, the doctor who forgets because he enters a scene very childlike. I would not call this doctor

childlike. I read somewhere that Russell sort of was taking some inspo from Captain Jack Harkness in the creation of this doctor, and I can kind of see it, this very, like, flirty, pansexual energy. Part Jack Harkness, part other things. It's not just Jack

Harkness, but that's in here. But that just sort of, yeah, that like lust for life, Jua de Veeve, like a panache like all that sort of stuff. Yeah, and it's not, it's unlike anything you've seen. I think the closest comp is Matt Smith eating fish fingers and custard and in 11th hour. Revolting still. Absolutely disgusting.

I think it's so fascinating that the, I mean, it might just be a throwaway joke. I don't know, but the fact that he uses the psychic paper, first of all, he moves faster than a human can move, which is something we haven't seen the doctor do before. I have questions, comments, concerns about that. But also, deploys the psychic paper as like a joke, health and safety genitonic division. Like, I don't know. It's just like, it's kind of funny. He's so charming. He's so good looking, all of the sort of stuff.

I do have some questions about his chat up lines. If, no, you're not, it's worse than that when she says she's clumsy and then just bye. Like, is that? This was, I thought, actively bizarre. Wow. Like, not only is this cryptic and unhelpful, it's kind of mean. Like even though it's said in a jovial cheerful way.

No, you're not. It's worse than that. Leaving a person for that to like hang over them is fucked up. What was this? Here's my concern about Ruby so far. I do not care how she does in our A levels. I don't think that like Rose Tyler necessarily did well on her A levels. But something that the companions always are is like sharp and smart in their own ways.

like, however whether or not you're Martha Jones and your medical student or you're Rose Tyler and like you're not interested in higher learning, I don't care. Or you're Donald Noble and your attempt. Like, I don't care your education or your class level or whatever, but there should be like a sharpness and a cleverness to a companion. Ruby seems way behind the ball at every opportunity in this episode. And we as an audience are ahead of not only her, but crucially, the doctor at certain points, in a way that made me a little frustrated in this episode.

Yeah, that's interesting. You know, I actually found myself on my first watch toward the end when Ruby is piecing together that the doctor is a time traveler and preparing to run out after the, to find him and to make her way into the TARDIS for the first time. I almost had the opposite feeling where I was like, this feels like a puzzle that Ruby doesn't have the pieces to solve here because the doctor has not actually told her anything other than dropping these little bits of these little breadcrumbs out of contacts. Harry Houdini, they took the baby, I went back, etc. But there's no conversation about like, this is who I am, this is where I come from, etc.

So I was actually like, should Ruby be able to figure out that the doctor is a time traveler, but hearing you say this, I think that you're part of why that felt odd is actually because of an aspect of what you're identifying, which is that there's not the typical level of like an inquisitive state, right? I think of Bill maybe as the best example of this, just persistent questions about things that don't make sense or surprising. And Ruby asks some questions. But if you're making your... way, part of what we love in a companion. And I should say, I liked Ruby. I thought Ruby was charming and compelling. I'm eager to learn more about Ruby. I think your points are certainly

well-heated. The desire, the willingness to say, make the jump onto the ladder, a scene we'll talk about later, is a crucial aspect of a companion. Like, you have something, something inside of you positions you to take a risk, to take a chance, to do something that other people maybe would be afraid to do. But part of why you do that is because you're curious, you want to know. And so I think because Ruby takes the leap, we're like Ruby does want to know. Ruby is curious. Ruby is curious about her own life and her history.

So that's there. But maybe bringing it to the fore with a more active pursuit of what is going on would be like a helpful balancing. And I just, I mean, the latter's a great call. That's something that I should give more value to. I just think about Rose, like Rose saves the doctor in the first episode that she shows up. And like, oftentimes the companion is either says, like, Martha says something that, like, helps the doctor figure it out, like, says something or does something that helps the doctor save the day or actually the companion saves the day.

And Ruby just felt like such a much more passive part of all of this. But that's just a first impression. And I'm excited to see more from her. We're out on the street. We already heard the opening clip of the doctor and the copper out on the street, the snowman, the doctor comically exasperated at the woman with her pram, like, in shopping, punching the eye out of the snowman and just being like a pram at midnight, like all that sort of stuff.

And that very, that warmth, that love of humanity that we love to see in the doctor that we saw, identified a lot in 10, but just like him talking to this cop and being like, first of all, we learned some things that his Sonic could do, but also just sort of like talking about you bought the engagement ring before the things went on sale, and that's why she loves you. Merry Christmas. This is why she's going to say yes. It's just very sweet and endearing. She's going to say yes because you're not thoughtful about how you spend your money and you couldn't wait another day for the sale. Mallory, Rubin. I'm sorry. We're all thinking it. Are we all thinking it?

It was sweet. I was like, how romantic. You're right. It's saying I love a frugal partner feels like the thing you should say, but as you know, I love to be recklessly spoiled and indulged with presents constantly. I know you do. That's the truth. You just had eight nights of presents rained down upon you.

I've seen some of them. Competitive gift giving always here in our household. We talked a little bit after the giggle about the new look Sonic because they had released this little like featurette video. What did you think about seeing it in action for the first time? Thoughts and feelings on the new design? The first thing we see it do is change the stoplight and it looks so much like a remote controller or a garage opener that I just say I don't know what to tell you,

but I'm not mad about it. I'm just sort of like it's going to take a little getting used to. How do you feel about it? I am intrigued. I like it as well. Well, I love the evolution doctor to doctor of the sonic design. So obviously this is more of a radical shift. I'm intrigued more broadly, I think, about the deployment of new tech with this doctor.

The gloves. We'll talk about the gloves. Yeah. And this started with 14, actually. We had talked about the 14th doctor, Sonic, having capabilities that we had not previously seen. And then, yeah, the intelligent gloves in this episode. and, like, who knows what else will witness over time. So I'm, I don't know.

I'm a little of two minds because I always, on the one hand, Joe, stop me if you heard this before, I'm off two minds. I love a gadget and I love new tech. Oh, and like an opportunity for new merch. I love merch. Yeah. There is a part of me that's like, how inspector gadgety do we want the doctor

whose primary tool and gadget is the mind to be? So, well, I'm curious to see how this is deployed across the season. And his second heart. I do. I have thoughts and feelings about the gloves, but my first thought about the gloves to skip ahead is like what a gift for cosplayers. Like you just need some black knit gloves and like some LED lights and then you get to have like the intelligent gloves. This is like real Bruno helping Kamala with some at home cosplay to head to Avengers Con for sure. All right.

Let's go to Christmas Eve. As you say, we're working our way through December, December 24th. 20 to 23. Ruby gets off the bus. It's not the same dress because it's shorts now, but it is the same tights boots, cute little plaid number

with a red jumper on top of it. This is her Christmas Eve birthday look. And we're in Notting Hill, which is just a delightful thing to know. The bus says Notting Hill Gate. There's the later moment where Clara said she's going to go for a proper shop at Portobello Road Market.

So it's always nice to know where are we to get that sense of where this family is based. Here comes this flood. We've already teased her, but here she is. Played by another UK icon Anita Dobson. I actually don't have a full grip, grip sense of how iconic Anita Dobson is.

I do know she was on EastEnders from like 85 to 88, like the beginning of EastEnders. My sense is that actors who were on EastEnders, this incredibly long-running soap opera in the UK, Cornation Street, EastEnders, people who were on that show right at the beginning, I do think they have somehow cemented themselves, even though she's only on for three years,

like cemented themselves in the public's consciousness. But if you're listening to this and you're from the UK and you have more insights about how famous really is Anita Dobson, it just seems like when she showed up, I was like, this is, this feels like it's someone. You know what I mean? Just like the way she was, the way the character was framed, the way she was performing. And I was like, this seems like someone. Fun fact, she's married to Brian May of Queen Fame.

Oh, my God. This is unbelievable. Are you a big queen head? I fucking love her. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. What's your favorite queen's song? we've never talked about Queen.

What's your favorite Queen song? Hard to pick, I know. It's, I think it's Killer Queen. Oh, that's a great one. That's probably a top five one for me. Yeah. I think my hard to pick. Good old-fashioned lover boy.

Has to be my number one. Great one. Yeah. Didn't they play that when like Jack showed up, Jack Harkness showed up at one point? I feel like we've heard that. That is definitely Jack's anthem. No doubt.

Jack Harkness has definitely said out loud, come and sit on my hot seat of love. Without question. Can I tell you a quick queen aside? Without question, please. When I was, like, in my early 20s, my friend, Jeff was training for a long-distance bike ride. And our mutual friend made him, like, a training mix on CD, because that's, we were younger then on CD. Or just a playlist.

I forget, however it was, the titles weren't named. And he's like, I made you a training mix. And it was just bicycle by queen 22 times. just like Like my friend Jeff queued it up But it was just like bicycle And then he hit to the next track

And it was just bicycle That he hit it to the next track And it was just bicycle And it's like honestly an all-time great prank Incredible That's quite rude Anita Dobson Misses Blood

I want to ride my bicycle Sorry carry on Well we should do a whole Queen Pod I feel I'd happily do that with you Count me in Anita Dobson Something I discovered today

You and I discovered Within hours of each other today is that if you go to the Wikipedia page for an Indian Dobson's character from EastEnders, Angie. The Wikipedia page refers to her as alcoholic Angie. Like, with a capital A, alcohol, capital A, Angie. So this is like the character's name,

how the character is known inside the universe. Other people refer to Angie as alcoholic Angie. Good all alcoholic Angie. Friend of STD. Steve? Like, I don't know. I have no idea, but I was just like, I was shocked. Oh, man. Anyway, Hobbes and drag is Gmail.com.

If you are resident of the UK and you have some more insight on alcoholic Angie, what the hell. My goodness. Crucially here. Yeah. We meet Mrs. Flood. She seems kind of like an asshole. And this is her only summer. She seems like an asshole.

And then later she is just peaches and cream. But she's talking about an Easter Sunday fun run. Yeah, 25 minutes flat. Molly, first of all, how does that feel as a time? Secondly, mere minutes, mere seconds? Secondly. Do you want to, like, quote Princess Margaret in talking about your feelings about a Easter Sunday fun run? I'd rather be dead than exercise.

Yeah. To me, this is just peak, like, oxymoron territory. How can a run be fun? How can a run be fun? No, I reject the problem. premise. I'm glad that Mrs. Flood felt empowered by this experience, but this is a real like Lucille Bluth plate or platter. I don't understand the question and I won't respond to me. Like, what, Ron? What? No. Ruby, after greeting Mrs. Flood and Abdul goes upstairs to her

elaborately lit, elaborately decorated flat. And the reason it, the reason it looks like you know, Santa Claus vomited all over the flat is that we can contrast it later when we get the like, it's a wonderful life alternative universe where the flat is just like cold and empty and dark and dank and sad. So this is just like tinsel as far as the eye can see

and strung lights everywhere on the wall, blah, blah, blah. To me, it looked like a fire hazard that many lights inside, but I don't mean to ball humbug. I love a Christmas light, love a tree, all that sort of stuff.

this just was like a lot of lights very close to each other inside. And it made me a little worried about their beautiful flat, which maybe I shouldn't be worried about because by the end of the episode, it just has a giant crack in it. And no one has a solution. It's just like that. And Ruby's like, bye, enjoy the cold winter air blasting through the flat. Cherry, not willing to move a muscle. And we learn why. A rent-controlled attic flat and not in-hitting hill?

Who would abandon the post? Absolutely. no one. And especially like we, I forget what show are we talking about this? I don't remember, but you and I had a conversation about the history of Notting Hill and it's like history as a community of like immigrant, right? You remember that we talked about that? But why? Secret invasion. Secret invasion? Yeah. Secret invasion. That's why. Yeah. Wow. I think I just repressed that whole. Secret invasion. So good. It's all. God. Goddience three. Oh. On time really was crazy this year.

But this idea of Nottieh. But this idea of Nani Hill as a place where, like, immigrant communities live before it was gentrified and poshified and, you know, Hugh Grantified. So, like, this idea that, like, maybe Cherry Sunday has been there, you know, since that was, like, the flavor of the neighborhood. Cherry Sunday. Instant goddamn icon. I just love her. Clara and Ruby could not be more thrilled by the arrival of a newborn foster child

Lulu Bell on Christmas Eve. Yeah. On Ruby's birthday. Cherry's reaction is, and I quote, that's Christmas ruined, Rewind. Sleepless nights and stinky napes. This is iconic.

And also, we must remark that here begins Cherry's episode-long quest for a fucking cup of D. Get this woman a cuppa. That's all she wants in this world. All she wants. We get the who are Ruby's parents' mystery plugged again when Clara is asking if you ever find her your other mother. It did break my heart the way she said, I'm going to tell her you were so small. that shredded me. And cold, because you were just sitting on top of some snow.

You were so small and also blue because we were on snow. Should we like re-edit this episode, this Christmas special with the little ice runt line from the Lokiverse? I was going to say, is she a frost giant? A little blue icicle. But yeah, Lulu Bell's here. Louis Bell is very cute, but Cherry Sunday, even cuter. Where do you come down on the episode long debate? Is this a horrible name or a great name?

Clara, Ruby, team, horrible name, the doctor. I literally says that he wishes. He was named Lulu Bell. Where do you come down? Somewhere in between? I kind of like it. But I wouldn't call the kid Lulu Bell. I would call the kid like Bell or something.

You know, like there would be like a little. Or Lulu, something like that. Or Lou, probably Lou. Oh, Lou is nice. That's cute. Yeah, day to day Lou, but when she's in trouble, Lulu Bell, you know. Could be belly. Could have all sorts of different.

Lulu Bell Sunday. You get in here, you know, sort of thing. Carla's going to take off and, as you say, go to Portobello Road. Have you ever, do you want anything that you love that you bought on Portobello Road? Just a lot of food that I consumed that day in real time. I think I've only been there twice, but it was wonderful. Genuinely, like, a magical experience to walk up and down and visit all the shops, all the booths. Growing up as a fan of the Disney classic Bed Knob's and Brumsticks in which there's a whole elaborate number about Portobelloa Road.

It was like a long-cherish dream of mine to go to the Portobello Road in London. And I went, you know, I've been a couple times. The first time I went and I bought this like really beautiful leather satchel that I love that is wildly impractical. Like it's beautiful. The leather is beautiful. The way it's set up, you cannot use it for fucking anything. But I stubbornly used it for a while just so that like when people ask them because it looks so nice. People will be like, where did you get that?

And I could be like Portobello Road, London, like an absolute asshole. But eventually I I still own it. I kind of use it. But you see it and you have your memory. Yeah, and that's what matters. Sometimes I think about the 14 sausage rolls I consumed while strolling Portobello Road with my beloved pal and study abroad made, Allison. I had a really good paella. There was like a paella cart on the street.

They were just making it fresh. It was delicious. Anyway. Can you tell we're nearing lunchtime? This is usually what happens. Kai, I don't know how many meals time or meal adjacent recordings, Guy, has done with us. But if it's near dinner, if it's near lunch, there's just an extraordinary number of food mentions. This is restrained compared to the Thursday night recordings.

Those are, those were my lord. Bad news. This is, this is fine. This is classy. Weird line when Carla, as she's leaving, says rule one, don't lose the baby. I thought that was just the weirdest thing to say. And it wasn't just, it just wasn't delivered in like a fun, cheeky way. It was just like bizarre to me.

Yeah, my That is a strange thing to say My assumption was that this was less about any history that Ruby might have losing children and more about the recent

canonically established streak of clumsiness bad luck. Yeah, the lost to 20 quid, etc. Don't drop the baby out the window accidentally.

When later, when Carla says I've fostered 33 children, do you think it was more than that, but unfortunately, Ruby lost like 17 of them. It was like cool round 50 and Ruby lost a few along the way. Grim. National treasure Davina McCall makes a call.

Personal call on Christmas Eve. Is this why she's a national treasure? Because she's like, even the holiday calendar is not too busy. At first I was like, why is Davina McCall herself making the call on Christmas Eve? But actually, the real reason is not, she doesn't really care about Ruby's parents. I think she cares more about like why she's been. Yes. Are you also now?

In a sling and a gas. It's so funny because she lists many ailments and injuries and horrors that had recently befallen her. And the two that you wrote down in the outline are the exact two. I wrote down the falling off a boat on dry land and trampled by a moose. This is just like historic stuff. This is remarkable. I mean, Ruby had like a broken heel and a burnt thing. No, Davina is getting.

It was trampled. We repeat, by a moose. By a moose. Not an animal you usually see sort of banging about the Thames. Like, not an animal. Also, I think it would be pretty hard to survive trampling by moose. Maybe it's just trampled that leg. That leg that appears to be shattered.

Maybe it's just that's all that got trampled. Can you really call it a trampling if it's only? I would more say, I'm just dumped on my leg. Yeah. How many limbs need to be involved in a trampling? This is a good question. And we cut away and we are left to believe. We are left with the absolutely horrifying thought

that Russell T. Davis has just bumped off National Treasure Devina McAll be a pointy Christmas tree star. Horrified. That we're going to have to live in a universe where not only we were calling gravity mavety, but also National Treasure Devin McAle is no longer with us. I mean, Dyselfly that was not the case for long. Thankfully, that was not the case for long.

Thankfully, that was not the case for long. Before we get to the list of horrific injuries, the update from Davina to Ruby, no sign of your parents, I thought I was very moved by the performance from Ruby here, like the voice thick with emotion. And that moment where you need to confront, like, maybe I've hit the end of the road, right? I've run out of options here. And also just like, isn't that unusual, though? There's not a single trace anywhere. I mean, in the whole wide world, my mother's never left a blood sample or something, which was, you know, it has a dual purpose, right? Because for us as the members of the audience, we're like, yeah, that does seem odd.

One more bit of fodder for Theory Corner about what is going on here. In this whole wide world. Yeah, exactly. And for Ruby, though, that's just pure emotion and devastation, right? Like, have I run out of avenues to explore. So I thought that that was, even though we switched very quickly to the comedy of the, the, of the, the, that. the wide pan on Davina in the state that she's in. That was an effective emotional beat with Ruby, I thought.

I agree. While she's on the call, the goblins are busy at work in the back bedroom. This is a very small flat, and yet somehow people are always wandering out of rooms at like the wrong time seemingly in this flat, but that's okay. Sherry just wants her goddamn tea, but no one is getting Cherry, her tea. The goblins taking a selfie, stealing the baby. Yeah. I know I've already talked to you about the film Labyrinth before.

This is just like a classic Labyrinth plotline. We're going to talk about a little bit more of that later. Didn't notice the clear outline of a penis and very tight pants. So when you say it's like Labyrinth, I have to wonder how. It is a wildly different design on the Goblin King. I'll give you that. No trace of Bowie in this Goblin King. But other than that, there's a lot going on.

Anyway, leaving the Polaroid is such a little asshole move from this goblin. I loved this. They're a little stinkers. They really are. We already talked about Ruby Hoping on the ladder. Grabbs the ladder inside the flat, climbs out, a brief moment of holy shit

I'm on a roof, but then boom, right on the ladder, Joe, after the goblins hiss at her. We talked about Shudy and his incredible hurdle work across the roof. Yes. What I loved about this moment,

in addition to, I agree with you, the absolute grace of the physical aspects of this stretch. What did you do that for? Who sees a ladder and just hops on a ladder in the sky and you thought, yeah, I'll give that a go, babes.

It applies to both of them. It's the thing they both did without thinking, without hesitating. And so it is one more like common thing that they share that will ultimately be like part of what that brings them together is doctor and companion. So I like to that. I absolutely iconic striped sweater under the. Oh, yeah. And the blue trousers. Yes.

I think my favorite under jacket zip jumper is the one at the very end when Ruby walks into the TARDIS. It's like the light blue with the hard handle stripes. Astonishing. But every single entry and fit watch from the doctor is remarkable. And what I love about all of them is that the sweaters could not possibly be tighter. Like these are tight, tight sweaters. Painting on. Just incredible stuff.

We already talked about the gloves, giving us Mission Impossible Ghost Protocol feelings. Love, I mean, the climb of the Burj Khalifa in GoPro is one of my favorite cinematic moments of all time. So, like, I should be thrilled about these gloves. And I will say, like, shuddy, twirling out from the ladder, weightlessly with the coat sort of twirling behind him looked incredible. But these gloves are, I don't know, like, they make you light, they make you heavy if you reverse the polarity. And then they only, they only have three charges left. Yeah. 3% charge.

It's like a fucking iPhone that you need to plug in all the time. I was like, I'm good. We're a time lord. Can we have like a self-sustaining core of these gloves or something like that? And then we had some questions about this. The Mavity bit returns. How do you feel about Mavity still being here? I'm just officially...

So I like it. I like that this is... It's determined. No more debate. This is a part of this aspect of the era of Doctor Who. I remain concerned because my question is, is this like just a point of distinction and differentiation like a cute little thing

and it becomes a part of the in universe vernacular like you know the way we can't say fuck on Battlestar right or is it an indicator to us that something is off and when something is off what does it mean?

In this episode reminds us of this it means it needs to be reset eventually somehow and so that's like my worry still is like is the Mavity through line a signal to us that something is off here that will need to be rectified.

So we have branched in a way that either in a way that we shouldn't or maybe in a way that this is just part of the way we remain in this branch and have this. And that will... Whoverse? Who reverse? Doctorverse.

I come down on your side. I've thought about this one of it. Yeah, you're correct. You are correct. Let's just keep calling it that. And eventually... Well, I just said it just now, I was like, that's what it's called

and then remember that it's not. But you've already intercepted me so effectively. Guys, let's just all call it Hooniverse and eventually Russell will have to capitulate. That's just what's going to have to happen. And I guess if, to your point about Mavity, if we're in a branch timeline of some kind, if that's what it feels like, that only lends credence to the concern of like does Shuddy Gautwa's doctor feel like, quote, unquote, the real doctor? Or does that make him feel like some sort of alterna doctor, which is not something we want for him? Right, exactly. The playoffs are here.

You can predict the action all the way to the finals with Fandul Predicts. Follow all the playoff dishes, swishes, wishes, wishes, and misses. Predict the spread, the total points, and even the game winner. Sign up for Fandual Predicts and predict it from the couch. Offered by Fandual Prediction Markets LLC, a registered futures commission merchant. 18 plus. Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tools.

When we get up to the pirate ship and they're immediately captured and tied up, I love this section because Shudy is capturing as a 15th doctor is capturing an aspect of the doctor I absolutely adore, which is this like, to your point earlier, intense curiosity, joy of learning, joy of discovery, you know what I mean? Like he says, learn the language to Ruby. To coincidence is what makes the baby tasty is an incredible thing to. say. He talks about the goblins being time riders, surfing the waves of time. And then he talks about this idea of like coincidences and bad luck and all of that. And he says, if you have a lot of accidents, it stitches you in, weaves you into the day. You become all complicated and nodded and vivid. And I just love that line so much. Okay. So here's here. I'm, I agree. And then I had a little thing pulling me back inside of this scene.

But before I explain why, I just have to say that a couple things on the design of this stretch, the ship, the goblin ship, which reveals itself to us as we, as we, the ladder rises into the sky.

First of all, made me think a little bit of the girl who died and like, you, oh, this Viking ship hovering unseen above. Love when things like this happened in who. This gave me such like, Bowser's ship and Mario vibes.

That's just like, this is fascinating design. That's so funny. It made me think of Neverlands. And then Neverland was the other thing. Yeah. And then the goblins. When we emerged into this like pit, not when we go down for the musical number.

Yeah, yeah. But when they first arrive. Yeah. It looked like we were in a goblin version of Newsies. These little fucking goblins in their caps and their vests. Newsies is a great comp. I think later when we see Janice, who is the shantous, the goblin shantooze. and she's dressed as a tavern winch.

So that it makes me feel a little bit more like we're in like all over twist umpapa sort of that's what we're supposed to be doing there. When we got down to the musical number, I was just like we're in the most icely canteena. But yes, there are a lot of cops across this entire stretch. So in terms of what you were just saying about

what we hear from 15 here. Stitches you into the day. I thought the language here was stunning. I agree with you. I thought this was absolutely gorgeous and lyrical and poetic. I also loved what you just said and felt this way watching it as well.

I love when we see the doctor show that zest, like that hunger to explore and understand the unfamiliar. And there's a charm to it. It's just a very winning state to find the doctor in. With respect to the episode, the thing that pulled me out even of these moments where I thought the writing was beautiful in the performances in.

I think we might be overstating the majesty of tiny monsters throwing plugs at our heads. Like, it just was one of those things where I'm like the actual core substance of what we are talking about. I didn't think the plot unlocked that examination. Oh, I agree. As effectively as some other Doctor Who episodes. And like when we've watched Doctor Who in the past and he's talked about like fixed moments in time. Yeah. Like whenever the plot decides something can't be changed, then it becomes a fixed moment in time or whatever, this idea of.

stitching you into the day, you become complicated and not it. But if you're stitched into the fabric of the day, or weaves you, weaves you into the day, stitches you in, then why is it so easy to remove Ruby from the timeline? Do you know what I mean? She's stitched in. And then they're able to go back in time and snatch her as a baby, but I'm like, but isn't she woven in? Isn't she stitched into the timeline? Right. Yeah. And so like, again, the idea of an episode that grapples with, like, what truly is the nature of coincidence? I thought the moment later where the doctor is about to go back up in the flat and is looking up and Mrs. Flood is like,

you look like you lost a bound and found a sixpence. What's up? And he's like, I'm wondering if I'm the bad luck? Oh, yeah, we're going to come back to that. Yeah, we're going to come back to that. That is like amazing. Yeah. But the actual, okay, the babies and the same birthday

and the foundlings and they've been, all of that was just laying the path to get you to this moment of coincidence. I'm like, I agree with you. Because the goblins want to take the baby. and eat it? It was just, it just, well, it makes it. It's the seasoning for the baby.

But I agree with you. I think the circumstances don't exactly match the majesty of the language. And there's a, there's an excuse I could make that. And the magnitude of the idea. Well, there's this excuse I could make that this doctor is the kind of doctor who, like, romanticizes this thing. And I can kind of see that, you know, like, even based on, like, where we met him and the giggle, like, all this sort of stuff.

Like, I can, I can see him being someone who's just like, overthinks things and psychoanalyses things and does all of this sort of stuff. I could see that. But I think inside this just one example of an episode, I don't wholly disagree with you. I do love the indignant defense of time travelers the best. Like, wow, right? Great. Yeah. Yeah. I love the inclusion of the Britishism Bimble, which is not one that we Americans have like gotten to adopt very much. But, you know, these goblins just bimble about. They're not noble time travelers. And then the Captain Jack Harkness-esque spent a long hot summer with Harry Houdini. Great stuff. This was great. Did the doctor and Harry Houdini fuck? I think the answer is apparently yes.

With rope play, I would say is canonically accurate. Oh, man. What do you think they're safe for us? Bimble. Abercadabra, I think. Sorry, I don't know. who you never said ever could ever in his life. I don't know. All that being said, I kind of agree with you. I do think shooty indignantly yelling, I am learning the vocabulary of rope is a great doctor moment.

Just full stop. Yes. Agreed. Malie Rubin. Yeah. If there's three things you know about me. You love an ocean vista. You hate a crevice and you love a musical number. Those are the three things I had in my mind. Amazing. We would crush the newlywed game. I love this. I fucking knew it. I knew those were the three. Love the ocean, hate a cremins.

So proud of myself. If we're in a labyrinth comp, if goblins are stealing babies and we're going and we're the older sister and we're going after the baby, then of course there's a musical number. That's just what we do in a labyrinth situation. Sure. As Mallory well knows, because she's definitely seen that movie. Something you will know about the labyrinth. when you see it, is that the music in that movie rules.

Okay. Chiefly, the closest comp of a song that I can think of as, like, you remind me of the babe, what babe, the power, what power of the power of the... Like, great stuff, okay? Iconic shit. I would say this song, this little ditty from Janice does not quite rise to that level. There are parts that I love. Okay, Marie Gold wrote the music.

You know I love Marie Gold. Russell wrote the words. And here's, Russell wrote this verse when he was like, I don't know, it was like, right after lunch, he had had some, like, early in the morning. He had his coffee. He was ready to go. He's just ready to face the day. And he wrote, we've got a baby we can feast. We can dine three days at least. Baby blood and baby bones, baby butter for the baby scones. Little baby feats, little baby toes. Everyone of us wants the nose. No notes. Okay. Here's my feeling on this. Baby butter for the baby scones. Right. Baby butter for the baby scones and you put that into the world, you should be jailed. What are you talking about? It's so good. It's gross.

I mean, but it should be, I think. It is very funny. It is very funny. I was like, this kind of a bag here. Baby butter for the baby scones. Great. Then we get to this lyric. So distressing. Then we get to this lyric that poor Janice had to sell for us. Here's the king.

Here's the king. Here's the king. Here's the king goblin. We love the king. We sing dingling. And Russell wrote that lyric at like 4.50 p.m. Home by 5. Oh my God.

I need to ask you a question. You've invoked Captain Jack Harkness a couple times. It's a sweet holiday episode. It's lovely. It's charming. It's a horny episode. And I need to ask you what you thought of the cutaway to one of the audience member, Goblins, who said of the Goblin King, he can eat me.

He makes me swoon. Wow. Uh-huh. Let's go. Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays from Doctor Who. That was my favorite moment of the episode. That was extraordinary. Pretty phenomenal. Also, the voice actor who did that line really sold it. Wow. I have my criticism of the song. And I do want to say they released a song, I think a couple weeks ago, I believe it was.

When the Giggle came out is when they released it. All proceeds for the song are going to children in need. So that's great. Like, that's great. It's raising money for children. charity. I still think we could do better than here's the king, here's the king, here's the king, here's the king, goblin. We love the king, sing, dingling. We meet the goblin king. He looks very much like the goblin king from The Hobbit, not a fan of this design, but whatever. Less gowly, but yeah. Yes, yeah, no, a few goiters in the neck area. And then 15 and Ruby sing to get themselves out Yeah. So was this like a dream realized for you? I mean, the doctor singing a musical number and a doctor who holiday special, what more could Joanna Robinson first of her name want?

A better song. But I do think that, that, I mean, you know, they, yeah, they do a Peter Quill, right? Like a Star Lord, let me distract you with my dance moves moment. And Shudy, both of them have great moves. Like they're both like looking great. The lyrics that they come up with are not that great. That's okay. They're improvising. Janice does not have the same excuse because Janice had time to prepare this song, so I really don't understand Janice's lyrics. But anyway, and then when you reverse the polarity of the intelligent gloves, they get heavy.

Heavy, sure. Why not? Oh, man. I hear you about the goblin person asking the goblin king to eat them out is your favorite part of the episode. Of course. For me, it's going to be the doctor meeting Cherry Sunday. Yeah, like a tasty treat. Kyle, will you play this clip, please?

I've given up on that copper and opted for a life of abstinence. And who is this young fellow when he's at all? I'm the doctor. Last time I saw doctor he tried to murder me, so you stay away. Oh, you don't need me. You got your family looking after you. We three queens of the sky. I appear in the attic.

Oh. And your name is Cherry. It is. Cherry Sunday. Like a tasty treat. Yes. I'll see you later, Cherry, okay? And he walks out and she gives this like little giggle.

Like she has just had the time of her life. Cherry is down to fuck and I am here for it. I love this. We three queens of the sky up here in the attic. What a beautiful. Beautiful sentence. How important to you personally is it that Cherry Sunday get to go into the TARDis at some point in her life? I mean, with respect for a long-running institution that we hope continues forever, they have to cancel the show if it doesn't happen, right? Unfortunately.

Are those mistakes? Aren't those mistakes? And if you're sitting there at home saying, but Cherry Sunday said she was never going to lose, she's not moving, maybe she never leaves her bed, blah, I would just let you know that Charlie Bucket's grandparents. took their bed into the Great Glass Elevator and Charlie the Great Glass Elevator. So if they can get four grandparents in a bed into the Great Glass elevator, you can get Cherries just one single Cherry Sunday. I don't know. Four Grandparents in a TARDIS. Sounds like exactly what Cherry is looking for. Let's go.

Last part of the year, Mallory Rubin. I like that you're always on brand. I saved all of my Sonic design vibrator. Commentary. I decided to not go there. You cut it? So maybe for a future project. You just did it.

Let's be honest. Let's be honest. It's not like the sonic screwdriver has never looked like a vibrator. No, this is exactly the thing. Like it always has. And like that's, you know, again, an evolving design, you know, to reflect new times and new understandings. I love it.

15 and Ruby. Leave the baby alone in the back bedroom for some. unknown reason. And later they have a bit about this, but I was just like, I, you know, because he has a wild hair up his ass that they need to like turn off everything in the kitchen. Okay. So they both go to do that. And it's really just an excuse to get them in front of the fridge so we can see. Yes. Carla's family on the fridge. And this is really beautiful moment when he's talking to Rubini and he says, you have the biggest family in the world. This world or another world? To be continued. And she asked the doctor about his family. He says, I've got no one, right? Very sad. It's a very sad moment. And then instantly to make sure the oven's off, yeah. Like that classic doctor, I'm not ready to really talk about this.

This is one of our favorite ongoing, you know, should the doctor, the doctor shouldn't travel alone. You know, we just left a doctor in his companion's back garden. He has found a family, right? Like that doctor gets to have a family. and he's supposed to have a family in order to heal his psychic wounds so that this doctor can dance joyously in the club. You know what I mean? That's the word of supposed to be the whole bit.

But whenever the doctor travels alone, we're supposed to be worried about him. I loved this. It's casual, it's quick, but it's like drenched in sorrow. His delivery was really good. Absolutely wonderful. The found family theme. Yeah.

Thinking about, so the actress who plays Carlos in it, we should say, was in It's a Sin as one of the mothers in Isis a Sin. And that show, in its celebration of the queer found family in the midst of the AIDS crisis, was a tremendous thing that Russell T. Davis did in the last few years. And so there's a lot of, you know, from a trans actress playing Ruby's friend to the hot summer with Harry Houdini to, you know, like Russell's run of Doctor Who has always been like queer friendly, queer coded, but this is like, you know, even more so than ever before. We are we the 14th doctors, bisexual, like all sorts of stuff like that. But this idea of found family, chosen family is such a part of queer storytelling. And I love that it's that it's here. I think it's profoundly some of the most successful stuff that's in this episode, I think. Yeah, absolutely. That's an important and beautiful point. And yeah, this, this moment was. really lovely and powerful. And, like, we've talked throughout the pods.

Like, you just cited and tracing this idea, you know, the moment we probably like to talk about the most is Tannen Wolf, right? Who have you got now? No one traveling alone. I thought it would be better alone. And just break that fracture as he says that out loud and thinks about what that means. Or, you know, 12 saying immortality isn't living forever. That's not what it feels like. Immortality is everybody else.

dying or 10 saying to Christina, like, lost them all, never again. The way that that loss and sense of loss and loneliness follows the doctor, I was thinking, I'm glad you cited the 14th doctor, because that was in my mind too in this moment most of all. Thinking back to the giggle and the by generation and the way that 15 said to 14, I'm fine because you fix yourself. We're time lords. We're doing rehab out of order. And it's just like fascinating to think about the ramification in this new by generation era because we're, this is the first time that we're in an experience like this.

10 and 14, 10 slash 14, got that closure with Donna, with Wilf, like this piece in the garden, right? What does 15 feel like he has? Because on the one time that healing has been passed on and is a part of that next step and next iteration of the doctor as that line in that moment in the giggle clarifies for. us. But in other ways, like, maybe you could actually say that the healed part has, like, broken off, right? And one of the things we talked about in the giggle pod was what it meant to consider a doctor who was maybe carrying less trauma and grief. And so I was, in addition to being moved by this, I was grateful for it because it just feels like an essential element of the doctor to confront this, like, linger. sorrow. And I think, and loss, just loss. And again, you and I have not watched, I've watched clips of Classic Who, but I never watched Real Classic Who. And my sense of like this idea of a doctor who is as often sorrowful as he is joyful is joyful is more of a modern who, I think, invention, but please, hops and dragons g-mo.com if you disagree with that

assessment. But, yeah, it just seemed impossible to me. that Russell would want to write a character who was just like dancing the club and fine and just light and peppy and fine. And so we just, we get the sorrow is, it's not as evident as it was with 9 or something like that where 9 is walking around with this sort of like chip on his shoulder, all this sort of stuff right out, right off the time war. But it's almost like it's, it's a little further away from the surface, but it's deeper. Like once you hit that vein, it's deeper. With like tears streaming down his face. So we get this bit where Ruby and the doctor are doing a little like, you know, slapstick bits with the baby and Carla and all and who are you and all this sort of stuff.

And they do this like little whisper fight that I think is supposed to be absolutely adorable, but didn't like quite work for me. They're a little like whisper banter thing. And then when But when Shudy is looking at Lulu Bell while Carla is talking about her foster children and how she wouldn't be the same without Ruby setting us up

for this different side of her that we meet in a few minutes and he says I'm adopted I only found out recently I was abandoned oh you were a foundling this is as Mallory texted to me yesterday time for the timeless child hive

to get excited because, again, this is a question. We already had this somewhat addressed in the anniversary special, but this was like a question of like how much is Russell D. Davis going to grapple with the huge lord dump that Chris Chibnell did in his run with Jody Whitaker as the doctor. And this idea of the doctor as not born a child of Galefrey, like not actually born in Galefrey, but actually snapped up from some other race. of alien and sort of mind for his DNA

and all the sort of stuff that happened in. Traumatic. This is something that however much time 14 spent in Donna's garden is not enough to heal whatever this is. So to your point at the beginning of the pod,

this idea of both Ruby and this doctor being people in search of answers about their parentage, even though like Ruby's actively looking, but to your point, like I don't think that, I don't think we could say

the doctor is like actively looking yet. But this is something that is obviously, once you get into it, is a really deep wound on this person. Yeah, and so it feels like this will be part of their shared quest is to explore this together. And I was thinking about that moment between 13 and the master when we are on the receiving end of that massive lorddom

that you just referenced, just cannon shattering, and the 13th doctor shouts, show me the rest, I have a right to know my own life. And so that, you're right that it's not as active of a pursuit as Ruby's yet,

but that I have a right to know my own life. But then they just, like, feeling is there. Then they just, like, dropped it in the Chibnall era. And that's, that's one of many questions,

comments, concerns I have about that run of Dr. Who. because you can't have someone shout something like that and then like kind of drop it. You know what I mean? They kind of, Danny kind of forgot about the iron.

They kind of forgot. Dr. Roo kind of forgot that the doctor has a right to know their own life. On the Clara front, you mentioned saying how much Ruby meant to her, you know, you made my life. What a beautiful line. I was another little thing that I just really loved when Clara said to Ruby,

I'm glad they didn't find her. Do you hear me glad? because I don't know if I could make room. I just thought that was such an honest thing to say. And it didn't make us like bristle or dislike Clara because it just felt like the kind of thing that would come from a position of insecurity. Like, you love me. You're this crucial, central heartbeat in my life.

What will it mean if you find somebody else? Will you want to be with me anymore? I thought that was great. Then we get the crack. The 11th hour-esque must be a hell of a scary crack in your wall, but like crack in the ceiling of the Sunday. of the top floor of Sunday flat. And doctors running around looking for Ruby goes out of the flat for like no really good reason I found. If only to make coming back in and like the set deck has changed more smooth.

I don't know. And this part was actually really frustrating to me because the doctor seemed so slow on the uptake here. And I really feel like if you were watching the 10th doctor. the 14th doctor, the 11th doctor, that they all would have just figured it out right away what was going on. And I feel like it felt endless to me watching the doctor sort of flounder about trying to figure out

what happened here. How did this work for you? Yeah, I agree. This was a strange sequence. It is saved, I think, at the very end by the absolute desperation with which he says, I will fix

this. They correct the timeline, but I will fix it. that need to rectify something and the fear and worry that is driving that. And what it means for you to be capable of repairing something like that yourself, that part worked for me. But yes, the sequence leading up to it. Plus, it was just painful to see a different cherry. I don't want to see any cherry is anything but her chipper, horny tea.

Tea yearning, tea pining self. Yeah, the Carla sequence. here also like didn't truly work for me except for the part where he where she's like why would I want like when when I'm happy with my life or whatever which is such a weird thing to say after being so bitter about everything else she's like everything's horrible but my life is happy so why would I want something else and he was like but then why are you crying like that was I don't know it was almost great and then but him crying like really got me um the tardis disappears and I just need we need to track every single thing that Mrs. Slud does in this episode because

questions abound drops her shopping and astonishment over the TARDis disappearing here. That sounds like someone who's never seen a TARDIS before.

I don't know. Like, I don't know how to square it out. Yeah, and the earlier complaint about the TARDIS blocking the sidewalk. And then, yeah, this was all very odd.

All right, we're back where we started. We're back at the church. Carol the Bells is playing once again. Alto section trauma is kicked up, blah, blah, blah. The doctor's crying. The hooded lady is shuffling very slowly away

from the church. Exceedingly slowly. This whole action sequence happens and she's like 10 feet away. Yada, yada, yada gloves, yada, yada,

ladder, yada, pirate ship crash on the church steeple. We're stabbing the Goblin King through the tits essentially. By the way, Ruby is like four feet away from this steeple impalement.

Could have gone wrong. A very Percy-esque vanishing and a poof of gold disappearance for the goblinship? You don't want to say Voldemort glitter again? This didn't have the Voldemort confetti feel to me now. I see. No. Thanks for asking. The doctor has this moment of emotional indecision about following the hooded figure, who, again, is shuffling very slowly.

And I have a question for you. Yeah. Why not? you're in a time machine. You can go back to exactly where you came from. Is this, I don't have time, which Dr. Who does all the time where they're like, we don't have time. And I'm like, you're in a time machine. That's fine. Or is it, or is it this person doesn't want to be known? So who am I to like, you know, expose them in so am I? You know? I think less the former, more of the latter, and maybe entwined with this person doesn't want to be known, is it up to me to change that? Also a, because the doctor is in this position, too, of like, who are my parents? Where did I come from? On the one hand, you could give this gift to Ruby of this knowledge that she is seeking. But on the other hand, maybe that's her, just as this is about to be his quest, maybe that's her quest to undergo.

I thought there was a little bit maybe of an element of, like, wanting to respect Ruby's agency to, like, be there for a moment like that. I don't know. It was very strange. We're having to like twist ourselves into a logic pretzel to come up with potential explanations. It's like you're right there. You could just go take a look. You can take a look. Let's go back. Let's go back to where we started with this line. As for the mother, she was never seen again. No one ever knew her name until that night a time traveler came to call. What? Not all what happened. Then is there something we're not seeing here that we will learn later or will there be another trip to this moment? But then you get into like the how many times can you remember? That night. Cross your time stream, which gets clunky. Yeah. Explored before. It's very odd.

If there had been, I was, the second time I was watching through, I was like, oh, maybe there's like a cutaway. And so we're just like not seeing the fling. That's not true. You like gets into the tart as he goes. Like, that's not. Anyway, we might be picking nits, but it just seems like an odd thing to write it to your beginning to not pay off at the end of your episode.

And maybe it will pay off before the season is over. Now, Mrs. Flood. Mrs. Flood, who was being cranky about the chartered Mrs. Flood, who we met while she was dropping her shopping. This is an entirely different Mrs. Flood that we meet here. It's so different that you have to wonder, is this like a gravity-mavity situation? I was going to say, do we step on a butterfly in the snow and now Mrs. Flood has had a wonderful life? Like what's just the most joyous, wonderful, uplifting, kindliest lady you ever did need would be a joy to live next to Mrs. Flood. The 15th, Doctor Saves National Treasure to Vina McCall.

We already talked about that. Let's hear Mrs. Flood and the doctor, Kyle, will we play this clip, please? Busy man, sweetheart. You and your box of tricks. You look like you've lost a pound and found a sixpence. What's wrong? Just wondering.

Maybe I'm the bad luck. I loved this part. Not just, I mean, three things. Number one, the performance of warmth, however kind of baffling for the character, is great. Secondly, again, love a Britishism, lost a pound and found a sixpence. Love it. Do you have a favorite Britishism? Can I?

I mean, I'll have to come prepared to answer that question at another time. I'm sorry. I gave you no breath. Here's one of my favorites. If you say, cheer up, love, it may never happen, or just, just the way. shorten it to, it may never happen. Like, you know, if someone just like looks upset, you say to cheer up love, it may never happen, or it may

never happen. I just love that. I don't know. Lost a pound found a six-pence. Great line. But I'm just wondering maybe I'm the bad luck is such a good delivery and moment and all of that, especially at the back of the giggle and the puppet show and watching like everything that is ever, like

do I go up and say Ruby, would you like to travel the stars with me knowing what happens to so many of the people who get in the TARDIS with me. Am I the bad luck? Am I the problem? It's me, hi. I'm the problem with me. Like what, you know? If any doctor has ever been a Swifty. The 15 doctor. Yes. I love it. The giggles are great call that. It made me think mostly of a couple moments from wild blue yonder from the prior, the middle of the two specials, specifically the not things, saying to the doctor and Donna,

the things we felt they shaped us carrying across the dark, we could hear your lives of war and blood and fury and hate, they made us like this, and Donna saying we're more than that. And then not Donna saying, love letters don't travel very far.

And then elsewhere in that episode, 14 saying to Donna of the fabled flux, it destroyed half the universe because of me. We stand here now on the edge of creation, a creation which I devastated. So yes, I keep running. Of course I do. how am I supposed to look back on that?

And that aspect of the doctor, that constant worry over whether the mark that he's leaving on humanity is actually a good one. And that was part of why, among many other reasons, we both responded so strongly to the reunion with Wilf because that like, I knew you would save us. I knew you wouldn't let us down was like the salve that the doctor needed after what happened, the edge of nothing. So this is an element that I'm, again, it's a tragic one, but I'm really glad. glad it's present here because it feels like an essential thing for the doctor to have to grapple with.

So instead of going inside, you know, he goes back into his TARDIS. But Ruby, either too quickly if you're Malarubin or too slowly, if you're Joanna Robinson, figures out something about the doctor, goes down. Again, the freshly lobotomized Mrs. Flood, the completely different personality Mrs. is getting like a very cheeky over there love, that's the tortoise like blah blah blah look to her says good luck Ruby again

and a very like what do you know when did you know it and then Abdul we should say she's open the episode fighting with shows up and she almost like puts her head on his shoulder she's like cozied up to him she says Merry Christmas

Abdul is this is the last moment This is like a post-credits. By putting it here so that we can save the other thing for last. But like, Merry Christmas Abdul, direct to camera wink. Never seen a TARDIS before. Now, listen, if they just wanted to have that as like a cute little Christmas special, never seen a Taras before, welcome to the Who Universe. This is sort of a soft reboot sort of moment.

I'm okay with it. I was like, is this the master? Seriously. I'm like, who is this character? Why would this happen? But like, if that were the master, why would that person be like? like, I just don't understand the first scene we get with her at all. If she were this kind of like cheeky, what do you know character throughout, I'd be like,

ooh, what, ooh, what, but like the dramatic personality change inside the episode is baffling to me. But if Mrs. Flood is the doctor, if Mrs. Flood is future Ruby, if Mrs. Flood is any of 900 different things, I'm happy, I'm happy to have alcoholic Angie Pack in our lives sometimes. Big fan. Or if it's just like a one-off Christmas special thing, whatever, maybe Russell will explain this in an interview of some kind. Can't wait to find out,

most importantly. Yeah. To your point earlier. Fifteen has changed his sweater. He has gone inside the TARDIS. Yeah. And just swapped out the sweater. And I like to imagine that he was just standing there

on that upper ramp, struck a pose and waited to see if Ruby would come find him. Because he's just, waiting in drama pose. The Tartist are open for Rupy. Open for her. And she comes running in.

We got this fun little, like, birds-eye view of the TARDIS run-around that is our stand-in for it's bigger on the inside. Yes. And she goes inside and we get a... Oh, with such Pinesh. Yeah. I'm the doctor.

Very Captain Jack Arctus, honestly. Very, very, very good. Yeah. The end. Spring, 24. said. There we go. That's not very far away. Don't you love guessing what they mean when they get vague with their dates coming soon, early summer? I mean, I have to assume that spring 2024 will mean the actual calendar definition of spring. So I'm assuming this is the last week in March,

sometime in April or sometime in May. Great. What do you think? Yeah, I'm, yeah, May, April. April. April. Brings bring Dr. Flowers. Okay. Last one at least. This is the last thing we're going to do.

It's the end of the year. Yeah. Almondist signs and portents. Is there, portents and signs? Portents and signs. Is there anything in the sort of theory corner that we miss?

We already talked about like Ruby's mom. Is she even human who can say what's going on? The doctor's parentage. The deal with Mrs. Flood. What about the coincidous luck, the tapestry and knots of time. Like, do you think that concept is going to come back from the Christmas special, or does that feel rope-centric? The language of rope-centric only? Great question. I don't know. I guess given this is not,

I want to be clear that I don't necessarily believe this will happen or it's not necessarily a theory. I'm feeling strongly or holding closely or even had considered until candidly right now this very moment in real time. But given the way that in this episode, the nature of like a coincidence and connection is explored through two babies and then we have these two characters with the question of where did I come from and who are my parents. Like, I'm not saying that the hooded figure is like quite literally

te'en to come down to earth. But like, what if Ruby and the doctor are from the same place? What if that's what we learn? I totally think that's possible. that like in this idea of like our like brother and sister ish of the same race lost in in the sea of time coincidences luck

the tapestry and knots of time like now I guess the very obvious problem with this theory existing even for a moment is that the doctor would presumably very quickly be like hey you have two hearts right just it's something that he can hear

without trying I feel like something will come up where that'll be a thing he knows I feel like he has to put either his head or the stethoscope up to her chest. And then he would be like, you have two hearts. Though you would think he would have read on like some sort of doctor scan that Ruby would have had at some point in her life. Yeah. No, I don't know.

I go to the doctor so infrequently that I'm like, maybe one day I'll finally go for a fiscal. And they'll be like, you have two arts. You just never know. And they'll be like, you're a time lord, Mallory. You're a wizardary. You're a time lord, Mallory. All right. Percy, you're a demigod.

You're a demigod, Percy. We made it. We did it. Doctor Who, a whole year of who, here we are. He's the king, he's the king, he's the king, goblin. Oh, man. What a joy this was. I just had the best time.

Same. Doing all of Who with you. Yeah. Same. I was a foundling. You took me into the TARDIS. Like Ruby said, I was foundled. I am so excited for the,

the future ventures of Shida Gautwas doctor. Me too. What a treat and a joy and a thrill. And I am grateful for you, my favorite family companion. Happy holidays to everyone who's listening. Again, happy belated Hanukkah. Happy early Christmas, whatever you decide to celebrate. And we'll be back in the New Year with more Percy and all kinds of stuff.

Hipe meters, look-hraft. Doon comes so quickly in the new year. I know. Dune 2. We're hyped for Dune 2. We are hyped. We're spiced up. We're all spiced up for that.

We can't wait for Dune 2. And also we can't wait for the second annual House of Our Hype Draft in which somebody can select Dune 2 because it did not come out in the year that it was originally intended to come out. Some thank you. Thank you to Jomey at Dineron again for an incredible holiday video that I did not fully participate in, but is just a beautiful, beautiful representation of the Ring ofverse family. Thank you to our Jane and Rangipal for a year's worth of production work on the pod. Thank you to Steve Allman for a year's work of production on the pod.

Thank you to Carlos Juerboga for years' worth of production on the pod. And thank you today, most of all, to Kai Grady for his debut producing an episode of House of R, doing it through an illness, his flu game, as he put it. And I understand that reference now because I work for the ringer.com. Thank you to everyone. And thank you to all of you, the bad babies. And Joe, thank you to you, Joanna Robinson, my beloved co-host and bestselling author, MCU.

The rain of Marvel studio. The last one. That's the last time, Mallory Rubin. Thank you, to you, Mallory Rubin. We'll see you in 2024. Bye.