House of R - Hall of Fame: Steve Rogers, Captain America

Episode Date: April 26, 2024

This pod is with you till the end of the line! Jo and Mal are here to induct Steve Rogers into their Hall of Fame in celebration of the fifth anniversary of 'Avengers: Endgame' (07:45). They break down Cap's best moments and what made this character so special throughout the years. Hosts: Mallory Rubin and Joanna Robinson Senior Producer: Steve Ahlman Additional Production: Arjuna Ramgopal Social: Jomi Adeniran Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Brian Curtis from The Ringer, and I want to tell you about the Press Box podcast. The Press Box is a podcast for anybody who likes news, whether it's about sports or politics or pop culture, and wants to understand how that news really gets made. We have news shows every Monday and Thursday. We have long interviews with everyone from John Crackauer to Joe Buck. Your social media feeds are bursting with information every day. Let us help you sort it out. Join us.

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See terms at Fandul.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash terms. This episode is brought to you by weather tech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need weather tech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner. Or a road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech seat protectors.

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How nice to find a flaw. To the House of R. I'm Dwighter Robinson and joining me today. And listen, Mallory, it's probably too late to go to the bathroom, Right? It's Mallory Rubin. Joanna, as Scott Lang once said to his hero, Captain America, I'll now say to you, thanks for thanking of me. Great to be here today.

What's up to all the bad babies? Yeah. Here's an important thing we've learned from one, Mr. Steve Rogers. If you get killed while podcasting, walk it off. We're here today to speak for the next few hours, safe to say, about one of our favorite characters of all time. Steve Rogers, aka Captain America, is our third induction into House of Our Hall of Fame, our second this very week, because we are honoring the fifth anniversary of Avengers Endgame, a film you've probably heard of and probably also have seen. Have you out of it lots?

that's the one. Before we get into all that, which thought we would do our standard housekeeping really quickly, let's just talk about program reminders. Next week on the House of R, we have two very special episodes, one in which I will not be here,

lucky you guys, and Ben and Mallory will be talking about Bad Batch. So you'll get a nice Star Wars animated check-in. Bad Batch finale and hopefully if the timing aligns, Tales of the Empire.

So that might mean the pod goes up Saturday instead of Friday. Some point. We're going to figure it all out. Our hope is to talk about both of those things together. Star Wars Animation. If you posted. Yes. I podcasted with Ben last week.

You're podcasting with Ben this week next week. And that's all that timing is wrong. But anyway, the point is that Ben is supposed to be out on like paternity leave. And he's podcasting up a storm anyway. The other house of our next week. is a very extra special, horny one. Steve, you want to hit us with that new sound word? They were lovers.

Excellent. You're like especially horny, you listening at home shielding your poor children's ears. Aren't you always out of control? Aren't you always a complete hot mess on this podcast? Well, listen, the Lord Above Us, a.k. Zendaya has graced us with an excuse to get even hornier if we care to. In honor of challengers, next week, we will be doing fandom throuples.

Three characters we feel like should have been in a relationship with each other. Yes. Thruples. That's our head canon. That's what we have decided to talk about. In fact, we might have a stellar case in Among the Weeds here today. I was going to say, like of all the podcasts to be doing, where we tease an impending pod

that we're describing as hornier than usual? I don't know if that would be the case after this one. Hobbiton Dragons at Gmail.com if you have thruples submissions, thruples suggestions, more off-kilture the better. That will be a true,

we're relying on you bad babies episode of the podcast. Over on the Ringiverse, we've got a new monthly installment headed up by, once again, Benjamin Lindberg, called Ringiverse Recommends, where the whole Ring ofverse Fam is going to get together every month and give you some suggestions of things even when I want to watch, play, read, listen to inside the world of fandom

that maybe we didn't have a chance to cover in depth on any of our various pods. So this is just like a little extra insight into what goes on on our bookshelves, on our gaming consoles, on our TVs, in our earbuds, et cetera, et cetera. Anything about that that that I missed, Mallory? this new fun show we're doing. All things fandom indeed, right? Micropod. This is going to be a zippy one.

And if I'll go, according to plan, you will be able to see some of those recommendations on the ringerverse social handles. Our beautiful faces. And our beautiful backgrounds. You get to see what Mallory's bookshelf looks like, perhaps. We'll see.

Who knows? Maybe I'll go film in front of the other bookcases. Maybe Hala will join me. Who can say? Who knows where I'll be? In front of the T-shirt collection, in front of the shoe collection. Well, let's...

In the first video? Give it all away. I don't know. Maybe different... What about a different spot every week? How about you and I should both do a different spot every week and eventually do a slow cribs episode via... Reconvince.

Anyway, last one on least. Minute editions doing a comics check-in. Love to see it. And then the Midnight Boys are doing something. Question mark. I don't know what. So that is what is happening. It's a lot going on.

How can folks be talking about it? It's never really a quiet month when we say it's going to be a quiet month. We always find a way, Joe. Send the emails over, first of all. Joanna already mentioned the inbox. Hobbit of Dragons at gmail.com. It's always open. We would love to hear from you.

Apple Wars, sign it with your pickle, etc. In general, we would recommend following the pod. Follow the house of R. Follow the ringerverse on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. and while you're at it, you're only going to see those videos if you follow the ring or verse on the social media platform

of your choosing. Instagram, Twitter, TikTok. Join us. Love it. All right. Joine and I received a text message

from my mother, who. Oh. Was it about your eyes or your teeth? No, it was about our little video about how much we love podcasting together. And she was,

So moved that she felt compelled to send me multiple extremely sweet messages about how happy our friendship and creative partnership makes her. It was really sweet. Whether she has also sent you an email. Who can say? It wasn't. I didn't know Joanna was that tall because that seems to be the prevailing question that people have. Listen. Friendly neighborhood.

And the neighborhood in this case is Brooklyn. Spoiler warning. All things, Caption America. Comics. A musical that happened inside of the TV show, Hawkeye. All the films. What if? Your fan fiction.

Your fan art. Whatever it is. And we've seen it. And it's all weird. And we love you. We're here to talk about Steve Rogers. So let's get into and welcome to the Hall of Fame when Mr. Steve Rogers. Mell, you want to just hit us with like some quick facts.

here. Who are we talking about? How long have they been here with us? What movies are we talking about? What's on the docket here today? Let's do it. We're talking about a character named Steve Rogers, aka Captain America, played, of course, memorably, extraordinarily, sensationally, movingly, charmingly, handsomely by Chris Evans. He came into our lives here in the MCU way back in. This is like this whole experience, the end game five-year-old. anniversary as a hook and then looking back into the beginning of the Infinity saga is just making me feel. Where were you?

At once, like, experiences are eternal and embedded in amber and that's really nice. And also so old. Seasons? Like a piece of jerky? Well, I mean, as you know, I love, I love a jerky. I love a jerky. Never board a flight without a bag of jerky. 2011, Captain America, the first Avenger.

I have a wonderful memory of seeing this movie in the theaters for the first time. and never stopped enjoying spending time with Steve Rogers in the theater after that. The Avengers. Captain America the Winter Soldier. Avengers Age of Ultron. Captain America's Civil War. I don't know if we wanted to mention, I mean, I've already gone out of order here, but just like, let's shout out that technically he's in.

Cinematic Classic, Thor the Dark World. Now, yeah, it's low-key pretending to be Steve, but, like, he's there. Can I just tell you that I... Just in just to mention it. I almost put it in the notes just for you. I thought you might pick it for a category. I thought about it. But I couldn't risk it.

I couldn't risk it going unsaid. I thought about it. Of course, some very memorable appearances in Spider-Man Homecoming, Avengers Infinity War, Avengers Endgame. You mentioned what if, et cetera. So we went through all of the properties in the Tony Hall of Fame. Every movie that Tony appeared in made our lists in some capacity. Will that be the case today, Joanna? I will preview for you that it is not the case on my list.

I don't know that it's the case on my list And I'll just say this as well Because we just Took a long time celebrating the Winter Soldier And because we... Right. And we just spent so much time talking about the Tony and Steve dynamic

I did lean a little elsewhere In like the offerings To make sure that we didn't like retread something we just talked about So I found myself specifically going quite light on the Avengers As a result of I think how prominent The Steve Tony Avengers secret were in the Tony pod. So hey, great news. If you're just checking into this pod and you're like, I can't wait to listen, but also why did you leave out X, Y, and Z? You have two other podcasts to go listen

to that Tony Hall of Fame is waiting for you. And you scroll back just a couple of weeks down in the feed, Winter Soldier 10 year anniversary pod. There it is. Wonderful. I know everyone's like, the buzz in the water this week is, is Marvel coming back with Deadpool Wolverine? Is it going to be back, baby? Are we back? Have we never been more back? We are so back? And I'm just saying, yeah, and to a certain degree, I've always been. House of our Hall of Fame. What is this franchise? Listen, it's in active creation as you listen.

But we've done a Loki pod. We've done a Tony Stark pod. This is a Steve Rogers pod. We will. I promise, put down your swords. Do Apolladrides pod. And then we were like, hey, maybe should we have some women? in the Hall of Fame.

So we'll be, we'll be, fleshing out the roster over the next weeks, months, years of the House of our Hall of Fame. But we want to put Steve... When will we do a magical creature? Oh.

When will we induct a magical creature into the Hall of Fame? Can we do one single solitary woman before we put a magical creature into the Hall of Fame? That's my request. But next, how about like one woman and then as many dragons as you want?

Or dire wolves. Thank you. You're welcome. I love you. why Steve, as we mentioned with the Tony podcast is the five-year anniversary of end game, and we just didn't feel like we could do Tony and not do Steve. We just felt like you're not getting the full picture of the saga if you don't have the other twin pillar of the Infinity saga.

So that is why we were here. Anything you want to say about the Steve? the Steve MCU origin before I take us on a little this is where I always like to remind people that you are the New York Times bestselling author of a little book called MCU, The Reign of Marvel Studios.

I'm excited to chat very briefly about our connection to the character, but before we do that, take us back, Joe, to the casting, like landing on Chris Evans in the first look, maybe more accurate. to say Chris Evans landing on the MCU and deciding to move forward to the first place. And what this unlocked for the future of the franchise?

I think it's really such an interesting story that Chris Evans had to be actively convinced to play this part. And there was like, you know, a bunch of other great actors they looked at for this role, including Sebastian Stan, among many others. But Chris Evans was like, I'm not sure. And I remember when I got to interview Kevin Feigy, I said something about like, you know, Chris Evans are our most reluctant hero. He's like, eh, reluctant movie star.

And I was like, okay. And it's just like, you know, Chris Evans having come off Fantastic Four, which was, you know, moderately successful, but also just didn't want to be locked in superhero mode for the rest of his life necessarily, and just wanted to make sure that he had options and could show off his range,

et cetera, et cetera. And so it was just like a little worried about locking himself into as many movies as they wanted him to lock himself into in order to become Steve Rogers. But eventually he decided to him. We are very, very lucky that he did

because then our founding members of this world wind up being Tony Stark, Thor, Odinson, Bruce Banner, and Steve Rogers. And then Natasha and Clint, et cetera, et cetera. But Steve being in here. As you're listing those names, I can just see the camera swirling around the six of them.

And you see everyone doing their little business. I'm going to twist my hammer. I'm going to cock the gun, get the bone arrow ready. So why does it matter? I think it's really interesting to counteract the rage of banner, the braggadocio, of both Thor and Tony with the, like, pure, sweet innocence of Steve Rogers. I think that gives us, like, such an interesting cocktail of... And then to then further complicate the, like, the innocence of Steve Rogers with someone

like Natasha Romanov, who also works for Shield, but is of a very different flavor. And so, again, we're just sort of, like, adding ingredients to the... What is it? brew and making sure, you know, you've just got different, different options here of what it means and what it takes to be a hero. And I think it's just really, really matters that you have these, like, oversized personalities. And then you have Steve Rogers. And something that I found going through the clips today and picking up my moments and you picking your moments. Because I was like, there's so much of Steve that is defined. It's not like an over-the-top

charisma. It's not an exaggerated line read. It's not breaking into tears emotionality. It's not any of that. It's just steadiness. Just like absolutely reliable steadiness. And that sounds boring

except it isn't. Boy Scout sounds boring, except it isn't. And that's the genius of Bolsey Rogers as he's written by Marcus and McPhilly and as portrayed by Chris Evans. So Yes, that specifically is one of the great singular achievements of the MCU.

And one of the things that unlocked the not only like particular chemistry and rapport inside of the Avengers inside of a given franchise of the Cap standalone films are shared favorite, which we'll surely talk about more. But that Boy Scout idea, that the symbol of all that's good and pure and worth striving for, this like vanilla cookie cutter ideal. and making sure it never feels like that. Yeah. The, not just like the subtlety of the charm, but the rebellion.

Like, we talked about this a lot in our winter soldier pot. I suspect I feel certain it will be a throughline of the conversation again today. Part of what makes Steve Rogers' arc in the MCU so consistently riveting to us is that he stands for something firmly. devoutly often, but he is also the one who is most willing and likely even to rebel against it, to challenge it, to question it. I agree and disagree at the same time, like in that I think what he stands for doesn't change, but I think what he realizes is that the institutions that wear the sort of like, that drape themselves in the ideals that he,

has actually like baked into his bones, those he can take and leave. But his core belief system never changes. And that's what's so astounding about him. Yes, exactly. And I think also we love a character on an arc and Steve definitely is on a certain kind of arc, but there is also just like an fundamental way in which he doesn't change stubbornly that should not be interesting. No, you move. But it is. It's fascinating. It's really fascinating. And I think also just like Chris Evans is a choice because he came from Fantastic 4 playing Johnny Storm because he, you know, showed up and knives out playing a perfect like son of a bitch

because he like is like a bro for a boss. You know, like all this like sort of stuff adds a little spice underneath the. aw, gee shucks, gosh, Willikers, Steve Roderness of it all. That also just fades so, the G. Willikers aspect just fades so noticeably when you're watching in quick succession, a rewatch.

Caps, there's only one God, ma'am, and he doesn't dress like that. It's just actually not something that we can imagine him saying by, civil war, infinity war, end game. It just feels like

the idea of the man out of time and what feels anchored to a particular moment, but then what changes and the progressive aspects of not only his point of view and perspective, but his individual evolution

inside of the context that he finds himself in is just wonderful. I think what's interesting when we talked about this a bit when we talked about winter soldier, but the fact that like,

Steve Rogers has benefited from more than any of their character having a consistent writing team. The two Joss Whedon Avengers movies aside, having Marcus and McPhiley write this arc. And then when you look at it, because that line, that there is only one God, ma'am line is from Avengers.

And then the language stuff, which is funny, but that's for Mage of Ultron. And it's clear that Whedon really thought the man out of time stuff was really like, hilarious. And Marcus and McPhile were very much like, we don't think that that's the joke vine that you think it is. And we think there's something much more interesting and subtle at play here. Their joke about like here to pick up a fossil is ripping in sexiness and like an edginess.

Yeah. Let's get into a sports car while we're making that joke and zip away with Natasha. Wonderful. Comics Corner, real quick, we should say that the comics origin for Steve Rogers, by Joe Simon, Jack Kirby, first appeared in Captain America Comics number one from December 20th, 1940. It's a timely comics, which was like, which, you know, bled into Marvel Comics. But officially, he's a timely comics creation. Do you, Mallory Rubin, have a favorite Steve Rogers comic? I do. It's not a very unique opinion.

I don't believe, but it easily, the Winter Soldier run, the Ed Rubik run from 05.5. Oh, six. My favorite. That was just like such a, such a scintillating experience to thumb through that for the first time. I mean, not only as a fan of a Steve, but a fan of Bucky, obviously, that's like a seismic, shattering, comics canon altering in a fun and great way moment for Bucky. It has as much of a bearing on not only the version of the characters that we get in the

MCU, but the relationship that we get in the MCU. And like one of the things we'll talk a lot about today is and one of my favorite things about Cap as a figure in the MCU is the number of core relationships that are central to his arc. Bucky and Steve obviously central. Steve and Peggy obviously central, but there becomes so much room for Stephen Sam, Stephen Nat, Stephen Tony,

and that ability to balance new relationships and give them space to develop and to embed their way in our hearts and our soul. while until the couple moments that I have no doubt you will be bringing up later at some point in today's podcast without compromising the room and space for the core dynamics that drove the characters where we found them in the first place. I think also what's astonishing about Steve is how quickly he becomes the leader, even though he wasn't first in on the franchise.

Do you know what I mean? like he's just quickly put in this in this sort of general role and becomes this counselor advisor you have scenes I mean I don't want to jump on any of your picks but like I didn't have room for it but like you know

like a scene with Wanda or you know there's just like these little one-on-one scenes he has as like a leader of men and again I always use that as like a gender neutral sort of way that just sort of like yeah just like follow you anywhere my guy you're just the actual best Anything else you want to say about our relationships and Steve?

Or we already covered it or we'll cover it inside our picks. Should we just get right into it? I think just to reiterate once more, the standalone cap franchise, obviously Caps role in the Avengers franchise is elemental to what the MCU is. But the Capp standalone franchise, First Adventure, Winter Soldier, Civil War is, I think irrefutably the strongest standalone franchise, certainly my favorite. And there's so many reasons, many of which will come up as we go through our Captain America superlatives today. But that genre variance, film to film, and the freshness and innovation that that affords, the ability to latch a Captain America story and whatever is happening inside of the given plot to a larger meta commentary, something like the conspiracy paranoid thriller choice of.

Winter Soldier is I think one of the reasons that these films not only wowed us so successfully in the first place, but are always so enjoyable to revisit. Like the franchise has such vivaciousness and such life and such variance inside of it. Like I just really don't think I will ever tire of revisiting these films. I think the only one that is in close competition as far as like general public and probably you are concerned is the Guardians. franchise? Personally for me, I would also put Spidey really close. I just love those movies. I always, I always, you and I are like not entirely aligned on like thinking of those as exactly MCU movies. Though you're probably right. They are. I just like, I always, I always just sort of like

slightly sort them elsewhere. Okay. Anyway, 15 picks. Should we do a Tony? Should we do a rocket, rocket raccoon? Into the Hall of Fame? Absolutely. As soon as we find a woman. and then we can do rocket. Did you know about one and three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriotic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling? Does this sound like you? Listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away.

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Ask your doctor about Trimphaya. Tap this ad to learn more about Trimfaya, including important safety information. All right, here is our IR Steve Rogers Hall fame and ductee supportatives. Let us begin. We never know how many overlaps we're going to have. Yeah, what's your prediction today? A lot. I think far more than in the Tony Pod.

Maybe. You don't think so? I don't know. I occasionally, again, I occasionally tried to zig on the zag, but we'll see. But this is not, I did neither zig nor zaggy on this one. This one was like a straight down the middle. This was maybe the easiest one for me of any of them. I wonder if we have the same thing.

Molly, why didn't you go first, please? So this is best advice given or received. And I went with received. Steve, can you please play the first clip? Did it make him stronger? Yeah. There were other effects. The seam was not ready.

But more important, the men. The serum amplifies everything that is inside. So good becomes great. Bad becomes worse. This is why you were chosen. Because a strong man who has known power all his life, may lose respect for that power. But a weak man knows the value of strength and knows compassion.

Was this yours as well? Of course. Erskine. It had to be. It had to be. I love that it's, we did yinzen for Tony and Erskine for Steve. And I love that. It's like we're in the first movie. We love a, we love a doctor. We love a scientist imparting wisdom. So go ahead. Why must it be Erskine for you? This was just automatic. And no, I think no matter what the categories had ultimately been, this would have been the one clip I felt compelled to find a way to get in. Somehow. Has to be here.

Of course. Okay. Arjuna told me after the last pod that he thought we should try to keep a tally of how many times I embarrassed myself by saying this is my single favorite MCU moment. That's one. Steve, you're on it here. This is my favorite MCU moment. This is why you were chosen. I could not love this more.

We hear Tony. in The Avengers, as we talked about a lot last pod, say everything special about you came out of a bottle. And part of what makes that so fun is that we know, surely, fully by that point, that that is not true, right? And it's not just because Erskine said it. We'd seen Steve raise the proto shield to the trash can lid

to fight the bully and stand up to the bully in the movie theater alley. we'd seen him dive on the dummy grenade at Camp Lehigh, one of my other favorite moments, eat shit, not just cow, Colonel Phillips now and always. But the fact- Yeah. The fact that Erskine does say it also really matters because he saw something in Steve and he told him that.

And Steve Rogers' life to that point is defined by rejections. by people telling him that he isn't good enough, that he doesn't belong, right? Your form, go away. We don't want you. You can't be here. Find something else to do. And the final moment that Erskine has on this mortal coil, he chooses to spin lifting his finger to tap Steve Rogers on the chest, like to point at his heart and remind him, stay who you want. are. Not a perfect soldier, but a good man, which is one of the things that he says to him in

the scene that we just played a clip from. Schnapps for all. I don't have a procedure tomorrow. Dr. Kiddhar, after, chicken now. Aconic moment from our guy Erskine. This clip, the pointing at the chest, this idea, this is very like Tyrion wear it like armor, right? The idea of weakness. Make that your strength. Don't just make it your strength. Don't just make it your. your strength. The fact that that's a part of who you are and what other people tell you is a part of who you are, make you feel as a limitation, is the core of why you can do great things. Like, this is a core, beautiful fantasy idea. And also the fact that not just Steve Rogers is a character driven by a desire to help and protect by that compassion that Erskine cites,

but the fact that he doesn't want the serum to exert and gain control, right, to be powerful. He doesn't want to kill Nazis. He doesn't want to kill anyone. He, this is like why Frodo carried the ring. And it's such an effective way not only to establish Red Skull and Captain America as foils, as dramatic foils in this first movie because of what the serum amplifies that's already inside of them, but to establish something essential and crucial and like core DNA fundamental about the character and thus establish a film franchise. It's just perfection.

Perfection. I love it so much. I think the two, I mean, to the little guys, which is Steve's toast, is incredible to your point of just sort of like, you know, bastards, cripples, broken things. But a weak man knows the value of strength in compassion. Compassion, like making not my load star, as I thought about a lot of the other clips today. Like this is always such an integral clip to not only pick, but to start with. Yeah, because it just really is the through line of Cap's whole arc. And there are just so many moments, again, going back to that like, Wanda moment, which I didn't pick, but like he just, he'll have compassion for her.

He'll have compassion for Nat. He'll have compassion, of course, for Buck. He'll have compassion for whoever. He'll have compassion for Tony. He'll have compassion for anyone who comes in front of him. And that can be so rare in two things in, like, coming off the, you know, the 90s, early odds, like sort of sneering action heroes of just sort of like, we love to kill. Like, killing is fun and awesome and, like, badass and stuff like that.

Or, you know, coming off of other characters even in the MCU for whom power means something completely different to have Steve, every kill that Steve and Axe be a sort of reluctant kill. This is, I would rather diplomacy. I would rather something else before we got to this. But knowing that he is also built to be a killing machine is just a splendid contradiction, you know, the fleck of green inside of his blue eyes inside of this person. We'll be talking about the shield, spoiler, more particularly in another category. But this is one of the great master strokes of the character conception from the jump. Oh, yeah. This weapon is a shield.

is an object intended. The symbol of his might is an object intended to protect. Wonderful. Love it. I love it. Anything that I want to say about this before we roll on. Oh, a couple of, you know, when Erskine's talking about sort of his country, where he came from the Nazis, stuff like that, you know, he says the first country the Nazis

invaded was their own, you know, which just like has to make us think in retrospect as we watch back through of like hydra infiltrating and, you know, a, it. and a government turning on itself, all that sort of stuff like that. And then he says, big show and flags. And this is another, like, key component of Captain America where, you know, the ridiculous of this character, as Marvel, as the MCU is considering, as Marvel Studios is considering putting this character on screen, you think of like the star-spangled man, this man draped in the American flag. Thank you, Mallory. You're welcome. Like that, how do we make that not just a joke?

How do we make this man who literally clothes himself in the American flag, especially like... And how does the character himself not feel embarrassed by that? The dancing monkey idea or like the stars and stripes, aren't those a bit old-fashioned conversation with Colson? Like, he's always racing up against that. At a time, like, post-Iraq war when America is like... Yep. In a place where it's not, you know, fully proud of itself necessarily all of us at once or quite, at least sharply divided on that front.

How do we put this character on screen and not turn off just like, you know, half of the audience? And they pulled it off perfectly. And the flag that he drapes himself in and the flag that other people, you know, use to disguise their villainy is something that is constantly. interrogated. And that's what's so great about Captain America. Franchise. Number two on our list. Mallory, when she put together the Tony Stark superlatives earlier this week, she's like, I'm not going to do little quotes at the beginning of them because that's like has a chance on like stepping on our picks. And I was like, okay, cool story. I'm going to ignore that and just do what I want to do.

It did influence my choice in a couple spots, but not really. It actually mostly relieved the pressure because I was like, here are ways to get more of these great lines in here, even if we don't have them as our picks. only one, I think, where I have overlap. I was hoping. I was hoping that would be the case. This is, this superlative is called, I understood that reference, and it's funniest one-liner from Steve Rubeen. Hit me. Yeah. Steve. All right, I have a question for you, which you do not have to answer. I feel like if you don't answer it, though, you're kind of answering it, you know? What? Was that your first kiss since 1945?

Not bad, huh? I didn't say that. Well, it kind of sounds like that's what you're saying. No, I didn't. I just wondered how much practice you've had. You don't need practice. Everybody needs practice. It was not my first kiss since 1945. I'm 95.

I'm not dead. I'm 95. I'm not dead. Is to me iconic. This is so funny and so chef's kiss delicious. I will just spoil that I have another Nat cap pick coming in another category.

so I'm not going to use this pick as an excuse to talk about everything with their relationship. I'll be doing that more elsewhere. But this is so funny and sharp and sexy and like whip-cracking, amusing, and awkward and just the delivery, the man out of time tie, the subtext from both of them. And then the active text, there's this from Steve's like, yeah, cap, fucks. even though he spends a large swat of this movie saying that he's not ready for body body piercings or really a bunch of anything else. This is just absolutely wonderful to me. I have a number of runners up, but I'll save them until after your pick in case one of them is yours. What do you think of I'm 95?

I'm not dead. Delicious. Selectable, delightful, perfect, wonderful. What's so funny about this category, which I really wanted to make sure we put in here, but was also just so much harder than. the Tony Stark one-liner because Tony Stark is just made of them and that's not really how Steve Rogers operates. Conversely, I found, I found it difficult to find Iron Man fighting moments to infuse with meaning, whereas the opposite was true where like we have a few categories that are ways to talk about fighting because almost every like fight moment from Steve is a character

moment from Steve. That's not necessarily always the case with Iron Man with Tony Stark. So, So long way around, this is the category that I will be using as an excuse to talk about Nat and Steve's entire relationship. But in fact, I picked a joke that is not like actually that funny, but I think it is perfect to explain who Steve Rogers is Steve Lee plays clip. You know, I'd offer to cook you dinner, but seem pretty miserable already. You're here to do your laundry and to see a friend. Clearly your friend is fine. You know, I saw a pot of whales when I was coming over the bridge. In the Hudson.

There's fewer ships, cleaner water. You know, if you're about to tell me to look on the bright side, I'm about to hit you in the head with a peanut butter sandwich. Sorry. Force of habit. Okay, as you well know, this is one of, this is, is, is, is the most important moment in the MCU? Maybe. I do have this, this conversation.

for another category, but I have, my clip begins exactly where yours just ended. Chef's Kiss. We get to spend more time with this great peanut butter sandwich scene. Wonderful. But if you don't recall in Avengers Endgame, Nat is like crying at her desk because of what's going on with Clint at the moment and she doesn't know how to deal with it. And the weight of trying to run. Dispatch from Scroll Rooney.

Yes. It was definitely Barton. school roadie chicken in on the hollow um so she's crying at her desk and and steve walks in and he just like tells a dumb joke about how we can't cook and and and then i kept the full clip because sorry for us the habit is like this is who steve is he's just going to try to like bright side it jolly her like you know just like warm it up for her it's it's awfully like chilly and cold and sad and lonely in that room and he just like walks in and then all of a sudden it's two friends having a meal together, even if that meal is a peanut butter sandwich without any jelly on it canonically.

So, like, you know, I just think that it's a perfect use of humor. It's almost like dad joke humor from Steve Rogers because this is what he thinks he can do to be a friend, a leader in this moment for Natasha. And I love this scene, as you know so much. We'll talk about it, I guess, more. But their relationship, yeah. to lean on the shelf. Yes. I love the lean.

Fun fact for people at home. I don't care who you are. If you can enter a room by leaning, you should do it. It's amazing how many ways a lean can render. Like, this is not a Damon lean at all. No, no, no, no. This is a comfort in our familiarity, lean. Yeah.

We're just beautiful. Pals being friends. Friends being pals. else. They were lovers. Thank you, Steve, because I was just... When you say, there to jolly her, I do have a follow-up question or two. When I say we were talking about this on text message, earlier this week, I said something

about, like, put the jelly on her peanut butter sandwich, if you know what I mean, I think is something that I said. You know that I believe and will until I die that Matt and kept fucked. Any runners up, Joe? Any smuggles you have here? Other candidates that you considered? Let's hear your smugs. On the Captain America one-liner front, I think we have to mention.

We have to toss out here. You're taking all the stupid with you, right? Got to say it. Got to get it out there. How about do you fondue? Exceptional. I think we would be remiss if we did not mention that is America's ass. in this context, which is just became instantly the slogan of a generation of filmgoers.

And odd, like a real, actually a real mark of his character progress. Because like an odd moment of like smug. Flex on them. So satisfaction. Yeah. Flex on them. You deserve to. Also, you've got the muscles to do it.

And this isn't technically one line, but just in case the Captain America PSA's in Spider-Man Homecoming don't come up elsewhere today. Let's just use this opportunity to say out loud. So you got detention. You screw it up. You know what you did was wrong. So good. Brilliant. Number three on our list, as opposed to understood that reference.

This one's called I didn't understand that reference. And it is the best man out of time moment. I've got two smashed together. So why don't you go first? Oh, interesting. It's my only audio smuggle. I will not claim the same. This isn't an audio spuckle for me, but I have a couple coming.

Only a couple, but a couple. Steve, can we hear my clip for number three? Tony, I'm glad you're back at the compound. I don't like the idea of you rattling around a mansion by yourself. We all need family. The Avengers are yours, maybe more so than mine. I've been on my own since I was 18. I never really fit in anywhere, even in the Army.

My faith's in people, I guess, individuals. And I'm happy to say that for the most part, they haven't let me down. Which is why I can't let them down either. Locks can be replaced, but maybe they shouldn't. I know I hurt you, Tony. I guess I thought by not telling you about your parents I was sparing you, but I can see you that I was really sparing myself, and I'm sorry.

Hopefully one day you can understand. I wish we agreed on the Accords. I really do. I know you're doing what you believe in, and that's all any of us can do. That's all any of us should. Priority call from Secretary Ross. There's been a breach at the Raff prison.

Yeah, put him through. Tony, we have a problem. Uh, please hold. No, don't. So no matter what, I promise you, if you need us. if you need me. I'll be there.

Okay. I have this very crucially elsewhere. I'm really glad that you have it on your list. So my runner up here, which I guess it's possible as your pick, was also a Steve writing things down on paper moment. It's, of course, Sam recommending Troubleman and Cab adding it to his to do list. When the clip started was like, I was like, why is this her manner of time home that I was like, oh, it's a letter. So there's that. Certainly, but you might be saying, yeah, how does this fit the prompt of our third superlative here?

Did you just feel compelled to get your favorite moment in the history of the MCU on the list somewhere and not feel like you had a spot for it anywhere else after your other picks? The latter is true, but here's my explanation for the foreman. I did that. Yeah. I never really fit in anywhere. I will posit to you now, Joanna, that that line, and thus the substance of this letter, this beautiful moment between Cap and Tony after the rupture of Captain America's Civil War, speaks to something bone deep about Steve Rogers, which is he was always a man out of time. Before he went into the ice, before he came out of it, in his own time, he was the outsider.

He was the underdog. he was the little guy. He was the one who didn't fit. And that's part of what makes that man out of time idea so compelling to us all across the franchise. He had finally founded purpose, belonging, his sense of self, and then it's ripped away from him. We'll talk about that more later. I have no doubt. And so I love that aspect of the letter. I love that part of what's driving it. Steve's saying not just to Tony, we all need family, but that that has been like, like one of the truths of his life, that vulnerability from him. And that idea of having faith in people after everything he's seen. World War, the Red Skull, Loki and the Chitari,

Hydra, infiltrating shield, this shaken faith in the institutions that were supposed to embody the ideas that defined his life. Ultron, Sokovia, the Accords, the Avengers Rift, on and on the list goes, but he still has that faith. Because it's not about where he finds himself, ultimately. It's about that core aspect of who he is. And I think that the man out of time status shapes his accord stance as well.

Like he fought for what he fought for so that Thunderbolt fucking Ross could rip away his freedom? And no, sir, absolutely not. And, you know, I, I feel like I always like quote and reference that the safest hands are still our own cap idea, which is something that I don't have actually for any of the picks today, but really, really love and think is crucial. And that's forged by his journey across the eras and his journey across all of these different moments and time. And so no matter where he finds himself, of course, he'll go back in time. And he's just untethered, always, not just when he walks out into Times Square in the Stinger of the Avengers. And that's one of the things that's so fascinating about him.

What's your pick here? Great pick. I absolutely love it. I will reserve my thoughts on that until we get to the category where I have it. This is my two-for, which seems surface level, but I have something deeper to say, Steve, will you play them? Oh, wait, what about that go from accounting? Laura? Lillian.

lip piercing right yeah she's cute yeah i'm not ready for that you remember that time we had to ride back from rockaway beach and back in that freezer truck was that the time we used our train money to buy hot dogs you blew three bucks trying to win that stuff bear for a redhead what was her name again dolores you called her dot she's got to be a hundred years old right now so are we pal all right all right not this is not just about lilyan and dot though shout out those two absolutely ladies. And you had already alluded to the lip ring moment.

But it is, and I hope you all enjoyed the sound of desperate while falling in the background of that conversation between Steve and Nat. But crucially, the Bucky part, because I wanted to contrast those two moments, because Stephen Hatt do have a lovely relationship. Stephen Sam, do have a lovely relationship. There's just like all these great friendships he has. But the thing about Bucky, among any other things about Bucky,

is that here is someone who understands the time that he, like, lived the time that he came from. And so when they can talk about Rockaway Beach and spending their train money and, like, all that sort of stuff. Newspaper in your shoes. Yeah, that they have a, like, a shorthand in understanding. No one can understand you the way that he can or the way that Peggy, when in her lucid moments could, you know, but no one else is really going to understand your point of view, your perspective. which is what makes it all the more galling that at the end of that film he drops him up in Wakanda and then they don't really share much more. There's a ton of urgency, it seems, for Steve to spend time around Bucky after that,

which bothers me and will always bother me. But this idea of being a man at a time, I love the point you made about him always feeling that way and what's true about Bucky again. Like Bucky and Steve, we're going to talk again and again about it, but what's true about Bucky you know, despite being the like classically handsome, like, charming, whatever, is that he never made Steve feel that way. That like they could go out with girls and whatever and like, Bucky would always have Steve's back, Steve's side,

never made him feel less than like the little guy, any of that. And so that's part of what makes their friendship and their relationship so special is that, you know, Steve says he was on his own since Steve. was 18, but like, you know, as much as anyone was there for him, Bucky was there for him until the end of the line. And, you know, circumstances rip them apart again and again and again. But that is always so important. And the way that Steve talks in that letter to Tony about family, the way that in that peanut butter sandwich scene, Nat talks about family and the Avengers. Like, you know, they talk again and again about the Avengers's found family. But who is that first

for Steve and it was Bucky. And so the fact that, I mean, anytime that Steve talks like this about his barbershop quartet or whatever the case may be, but there's just something about that like, she must be 100 by now. So are we? Like, you know, like it's just wonderful.

Wonderful, wonderful moment. Right before they're headed into something like so, so scary in facing down Zemo and potentially other winter soldiers. Spoiler alert, not other winter soldiers. But that's not what they thought. So,

Zemo had other ideas. Yeah. Boy. Love those picks. Fantastic. Should we bring Lillian and Dot into the whole thing? I have another, I have another, there's like a whole bevy of ladies on the list here today. Number four.

Yeah. Let me turn on my chair and sit down. So you're openly weeping at a comic movie again. Most emotional moment. Mallory, what do you have here? This is where I have the other half of the Steve Nat scene from Endgame. Steve, can we hear it? You know, I keep telling everybody they should move on and grow.

Some do. If I move on, who does this? Maybe it doesn't need to be done. I used to have nothing. And then I got this. This family. It was always better because of it. And even though.

They're gone. I'm still trying to be better. Like a fucking baby. It's a perfect scene. Watching this for the first time in the movie theater. Like a baby. This is just a stunning, stunning, stunning scene. Yeah.

The most important moment I'm going to see you. Perhaps. It's my favorite moment in the history of the MCU. We've chatted about Nan and Steve already a lot. Today we talked about them a ton in the Winter Soldier anniversary pod, but this is one of the most surprising and delightful and winning friendships and relationships in the entire MCU for us. And what you feel here in this moment is forged, earned one acceptance and understanding, like the thing that you can build with another person, because it wasn't just there for them right away.

And the humanity that is centered in the scene is just so beautiful. Two superheroes, two Avengers, but also just like two people, right? As you're saying, in your pick, two friends. Sharing some very, very, very hard days with each other. Sharing a joke about laundry. Sharing a joke about dinner. Sharing a peanut butter sandwich. And just watching this and aching because we care so deeply about these two people

and their ability to move forward. You felt not only everything for these characters watching this scene and endgame for the first time, and now still every time we revisit it, I mean, it's more emotional now on rewatch, I think. But you felt that time spent, like over that decade. It's just incredible. And the aspect of this conversation

that centers on the guilt and the shame that you carry, like the survivor's guilt that they have and seeing, you know, we can think of, Steve seeing Sam at the VA in Winter Soldier, and then Steve leading the support group here in Endgame, and the individual choices, like how you process what you're carrying internally by helping other people process what they're helping. And then that, leading those Avengers Zoom calls with this girl Rode, etc.

But the thing that I love most about this and the thing that felt most crucial on this rewatch, thinking about Cap being inducted into the Hall of Fame, thinking about these aspects of his character, and his arc was maybe it doesn't need to be done in the heft that that carries. We will, I have no doubt, talk about the decisions that Captain America that Steve Rogers makes at the end, so we can save that part of it. What I'll mention here is this makes me think a lot of the moment in Age of Ultron, when they go to Clause base and everybody gets their wand divisions.

But what Ultron says to Steve, I have always found one of the most, like, harrowing moments in the MCU. Sorry. Okay. Yeah. Captain America, God's righteous man, pretending you could live without a war. And that's a question Steve has to ask himself, right? Can he? Can he stop doing this?

Can he allow himself? We talk a lot about the Tony, but could you rest? You can rest now. Can Steve Rogers allow himself to rest? Get a life you first? Well, it turns out he can allow himself to rest. It turns out he can live without a war. It turns out he can get a life. We will talk about that later. But this conversation with Matt, because of where we wind up, feels like such a massive brick on that road. Like almost he could not walk the path without. this conversation. That's what it feels like on a rewatch. 100%. And I think it was also true, this is sideways to the point, but rewatching it this morning, I was... You started your day with End the Game? No, I just started my day pulling clips, and I was like... But I... Scarlett is just really doing it in the scene. And I think it's because...

I mean, I know it's because, like, this is kind of her death scene. Like she has a dust scene, but her death scene is like an action scene. So this is like, what is it all for? What are you fighting for? And she just does this whole scene with tears brimming in her eyes. And Chris is just the perfect scene partner for her in this. And I just, and if this is the last chance, maybe talk about their relationship, I will say that like the meta aspect of Chris Evans and Scarlett Johansson,

who, like, started appearing in films together when they were, like, very young long before the Marvel movies. And so knew each other the longest. And so had that sort of, like, brother-sister relationship of, like, we were kids together. Like in the Jamie. Okay. I'm talking about the real people. Okay.

Not the characters. Okay. Not even not. I'm talking about the real people. Okay. Distinction drawn and noted. Okay. Never mind.

Moments over. Okay. All right. As much as I love and wept through that peanut butter sandwich scene, that was not my pick here. Steve Lee played my most emotional moment. I'm not going to fight you. You're my friend. You're my mission.

And finish it. It gives them with you the end of the line. Okay, I tried so hard to pick something else since we talked about this a lot in our Winter Soldier podcast. It was our number one in the Winter Soldier Pot. I just, to be clear, I also picked this just for a different category. So I won't dwell. How could we not? I won't dwell in it. I just needed, I just could not, I simply could not pick another moment. I couldn't do it. It has to be here somewhere.

So here it is my most emotional moment. And I cry every time. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business. It keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, Plus, 24-7 U.S.-based support, millions of business owners already trust Spectrum business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas.

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Bor's Head committed to craft since 1905. Number five, I am very certain we have the exact same moment here, though how we decided to depict it in audio form. We shall find out. This superlative is called, forget the Sukovia Chords. This is a violation of the Geneva Canoeba. invention. Steve's most hideous, horrifying, unforgivable crime.

Mallory, how did you decide to make this an audio clip? Steve, please play the clip. Let's see what we can hear. Didn't even occur to me to try. That's so funny. That is the sound of running water and Steve Rogers tap in a razor against the edge of a sink as he shaves his Infinity Warbeard. in Avengers endgame.

Joanna, the safest hands are still his own until you put a razor in them. This was an outrage. Absolutely appalling. Here's a so I decided to, this is the audio clip I decided to use, Steve Lee, please. You're here okay?

Notice you've copied my beard? We come here today to you apologize Steve Rogers' beard. We understand why this had to happen. But there's a couple reasons. Number one, Steve, I would understand this better if he did this right before the time heist, knowing he had to go to the Battle of New York and, like, blend in. And he's like, well, I guess I got to get rid of my really fucking hot beard.

And I guess I got to frost my tips because if I'm supposed to blend into Avengers footage, my hair was like, 10 shades lighter on the platinum scale. So, you know, Nat, can I borrow your bleach? So we understand logistically why this had to happen. Also, what's true is that when you rewatch Endgame, there are definitely moments in Endgame where he's wearing a fake beard. Like, he doesn't have his real beard for the whole thing. I won't point them out to you, Mallor,

because I don't want to ruin the movie Magic for you. But, like, you know, Chris Evans is a long history with, like, facial hair, reshoots, schwarma, et cetera, et cetera. Like, do you have the beard? Do you not? At least we're not in, like, a Henry Cavill, digitally erased sort of, like, space, all that sort of stuff. But we hate the beard shaving.

It's upsetting. I really wish that when Tony got off. A perfect face, but truly a resplendent beard, just sensational. I really wish that when Tony got off the ship all amaciated, he's like, I lost the boy. Steve Fenton, I lost the beard. Equal importance, I think. The death of the temporary death of Peter Parker and the loss of Steve Rogers' beard. Do you think Peggy ever made him grow it back?

Like maybe in the 70s? Do you think it came back in the 70s? Without question. Yeah. Without question. I think in the 60s too. I think he had a 60s 70s beard. Maybe even 80s into like family ties sort of dad beard.

And then the 90s came and he started shaving it again. That's what I think happened. Cap, we forgive you for a lot of things, but not for that. Number six. Not this. Till the end of the line. Steve's most loyal moment. I'll remember what do you have here.

Joanna, this is where I have your pick for most emotional moment, but I'm pleased to report that I have it sandwiched inside of two other related moments. This is one of my bundles. Don't call it a smuggle. It's a bundle. Steve, can we hear my three clips? What about the others? Are you planning a rescue mission? Yeah, it's called winning the war.

But if you know where they are, why not at least... You're 30 miles behind the lines. Through some of the most heavily fortified territory in Europe, we'd lose more men than we'd say. But I don't expect you to understand that because you're a chorus girl. I think I understand just fine. Well, then understand it somewhere else. If I read the posters correctly, you've got some place to be in 30 minutes. Yes, sir. I do.

Bucky, you've owned me your whole life. Your name is James. If you can in Barnes Shut up! I'm not going to fight you. You're my friend. And my mission. And finish it.

Because I'm with you at the end of the line. Shut. Okay. We have a triple header here because Steve Rogers' most loyal moment in all of his three stand-alone franchise movies

involve Bucky. Correct. This is it. How could it be anything but Steve and Bucky here, though, maybe I'll find out when you make your pick. I'm like some maybe, who knows?

The First Avenger. clip. We talked about this a little bit in our Winter Soldier pod, but one of the things I really like to think about and reflect on is that we speak so actively because of the nature of the plot in Winter Soldier and Civil War about Steve rebelling in those films and Steve flouting or challenging authority for Bucky's sake. But that's been there since the word go. And then we get to that Winter Soldier clip, which you selected beautifully and wonderfully for most emotional moment, excellent choice. It is just astonishingly impactful every time. The pre before that soundlight and that climactic showdown, the flashback that we get that builds to that. Thank you, Buck,

but I can get by on my own. The thing is, you don't have to. I'm with you to the end of the line, pal. Buckie's version of that. Pierce. But I, I'm I knew him. Like the idea that his friendship with Steve is the one thing that can pierce and penetrate this hydra Hayes. They were lovers. Thank you. Oh, boy.

We had this moment, like we said, at number one in the Winter Soldier Pot because it's just something we cherish deeply, but also it is perfection. Not only the substance of it, but the performance is the look on each of their faces for Bucky that rage and confusion. And for Steve, this, like, desperate love. Right? This absolute refusal to give up everything else he'll let go of, including dropping the shield, but not Bucky.

You can't. And then you go to Civil War. Yes, Steve Rogers broke up with the Avengers because of his fundamental ideals and beliefs, but also for Bucky. Yes. Because of those things are linked. That Sharon, that Peggy lesson via Sharon, like, no, you move. And the way that helps us stitch together, these.

you said the Twin Pillars line we'd love earlier. Like the Twin Pillars of Steve's life through that lesson. Ugh. When Peter, we talked about this a little bit in the Iron Man pod earlier in the week, but when Spidey and Cap were talking during the airport fight, and Peter is recounting what Tony told him about Steve, that you're wrong, you think you're wrong. right, and that makes you dangerous.

It also makes him Steve Rogers, which is just like so dramatically compelling and interesting. Steve will ask Tachala to heal Bucky. Like, I wasn't sure if this was where you would want to take a moment

to, again, reflect on the abandonment of this relationship. I'll talk about it later. Or an N-game or if we have that coming elsewhere, but yeah, I just couldn't help but go with the triple header here. Was one of those moments your pick for most loyal or do you have something else? It's very, very close in proximity.

Steve, will you please play my clip? That shield doesn't belong to you. You don't deserve it. My father made that shield. As you know, that's my favorite moment in the history. I know. I'm aware. It's the one and only.

Okay. After, you know, the third clip in Mallory's bundle here and we have the fight. And then as we talked about at length on the Tony Stark podcast, you know, Tony's like, you don't deserve that shields, my dad. When you rewatch that moment, it's so fascinating because, yes, as Mallory say, Steve broke up with Avengers because of ideology, but also because of Bucky, he drops the shield. And he doesn't even look a little bit hard for him to do it. He's walking away. He doesn't really like turn to look at Tony. He kind of looks up and up and like up at the ceiling a little bit for like a second. Like, of course. And he just drop. He doesn't look at it when he drops it. He just drops it. And he keeps walking has eyes only for Bucky. So he is dropping his found family. He is dropping this symbol of himself, of his heroism, of everything. The thing that the Captain America saga always does. is remind us what the stakes are for Steve.

What he is risking, what he is losing, what is he sacrificing again and again and again for this, that, and the other thing. And here is this. He is sacrificing his role on the Avengers, which he will, in that letter, then go on to talk about them being a family and how important that is to him. He's sacrificing the shield.

It's not the same necessarily as like when Tony loses his suit in Iron Man 3 or when Thornton, loses his hammer, like dropping the shit, he still's got the serum coursing through his vein. So he's not like completely like without his super heroic identity here. But you know, the fact that when we meet him in, when we see him again in Infinity War and he doesn't have the shield and his outfit is so different, not very star spangled at all and the beard is there and all this sort of stuff like that. He has, in essence, had his moment of shedding his heroic identity. and he does it all for one Mr. Bucky Barnes, who is just an incredibly,

incredibly important figure in his life that the franchise then decides to just kind of forget about. They kind of forgot. Danny kind of forgot about the entire fleet and that Pepsi who kind of forgot about Stephen Bucky. They kind of did. Oh, boy. Oh, boy.

But yeah, just, you know, if you haven't lately, just go rewatch the moment where he drops the shield because it's just like the way that they shot it is just, Perfect. Perfect. It's, oh, man, when he makes his way back to Avengers HQ and Infinity War and that fucker, Thunderbolt Ross in the Hollow and, you know, that I'm not looking for forgiveness and I'm way past asking permission idea. Like, you just, he's gained these other things.

Yeah. These important counterweights. It's a great. It's a great pick. I love it. All right. Oh, Captain. staying with Tony and Cap for my next one here.

My captain, his most inspiring speech. Mallory, what do you have here? I'm guessing we have the same one, but maybe you knew. You probably knew what I was going to pick here. We don't know the same one. Go ahead. Interesting. Steve, can you play my clip?

Five years ago, we lost. All of us. We lost friends. We lost family. we lost a part of ourselves. Today we have a chance to take it all back. You know your teams, you know your missions. Get the stones, get them back.

One round trip each. No mistakes. No do-overs. Most of us are going somewhere we know. That doesn't mean you should know what to expect. Be careful. Look out for each other. This is the fight of our lives.

And we're going to win, whatever it takes. He's pretty good, that price. Look on Tony's face. So I've picked it for two reasons. One, the speech itself, which is just like classic coach Taylor, clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose, let's pump our, let's beat our chest and then surge onto the field stuff. But that moment, as you know, because we talked about it literally just three days ago. When is one of your...

And we're going to win. Favorite moments in all of the NCU? Tony looks up and they meet each other's eyes. Whatever it takes is one of my favorite moments in the MCU. So many speeches build toward this. Like we always stand a cap speech. This was a great category. I had to be here.

A number of contenders. We talked about, I love the Winter Soldier Shield speech. We talked about that one in the Winter Soldier. And like, you know, it's a price I'm willing to pay that if I'm the only one, then so be it. But I'm willing to bet I'm not. that gets back to that faith in people idea.

That's a great one. He has a couple speeches in Ultron. It's about whether he's right. That speech about like the Ultron things from monsters. And then of course, the walk-it-off speech. Yeah, those were both really good too. Lots of choices here. But this end game, it's time for the time heist, pap talk,

is the rallying cry that takes us into the final showdown. Like with love to far from home, which is a beautiful Koda and a movie that I enjoy. This is the finale of the Infinity Saga. This is the last thing our characters here before they head into this second act before the third act. This is a massive moment. It has to be epic. It has to be. And it is.

It's so epic. The score, the number of people who are present, the way that it's shot, all of the faces that we linger on. So we get to see how everybody is responding to this. And what I love most about it is that it's not just the, again, like the, the, the cheerleader aspect of it, right? Like, get ready for the game. It's built on the history between the characters. And it pays off that time we've spent with them

with specifically that look between Tony and Steve, which I just adore. I think that is such a beautiful jewel of a moment. Like, one of Downey's best, like, acting moments ever. The arched eyebrow, the almost like glint in his eye, the glee that they're back in this. space and then the like

laden like drenched with the meaning and we are back in this together return gaze that Steve gives him I mean we talk so much in the Tony and Catpot about their arguments and their dynamic but everything that builds up to this

like Big Man in a suit of armor that fight the that up there that's the end game we'll lose we'll do that together too the you said we did I said we'd lose You said we do that together too and guess what cap we lost and you weren't there? The lakehouse recruitment,

the I don't believe we would. I got to say, I sometimes miss that optimism. Every beat for those two builds toward that look and for it to not to be this snide, like eye rolling, that's the guy my dad

wouldn't shut up about. But for it to be Tony's moment of opting in two of getting sucked in by Cap's belief in what they can achieve is incredible. And it just felt like such a perfect place. You know, we talked about the last pot, how we built even further toward when they need to go back to Camp Lehigh that you trust me, I do moment, which is also magical. But that little look between them, we talked also in the last pod about the giving the shield back and he made it for you and how exceptional that is and how

perfect it is as the apology from an olive branch from Tony to Cap. That look that passes between them in this speech sums it all up to me. I just love it. A little. I love it. A little. Love it. I so completely agree. I am not at all zero percent here to yuck the yum of this moment because I think it is a perfect moment. Rewatching it, as I was considering it, rewatching it, I had like one tiny note for Marvel, which is I wish he and Nat had a similar moment, especially since this is like Nat's last moment that he's going to see her.

He looks at her during the like no return, like no mistakes, no return trips. So that just seems like ominous. But, like, you know, this is the last time not in Ceeble. Which is why the peanut butter sandwich scene is so important. Because, like, it happens kind of there instead. And the Tony Steve-off is very important. I'm just, like, always looking for, like, a few more moments to shine for my girl that. Most is my most inspiring speech, we don't need to replay it because it is the, it's a letter, but the letter that Steve writes to Tony at the end of Civil War.

It is and isn't a speech. But the reason that I gave it, that I picked it, To go back to that idea of compassion, the compassion that he shows Tony here, the apology, all of that is so important. But we have, I will just say, we have a later category that is about entrances. And I think you and I felt like there was probably really only one pick we could make there. I was so close to picking this because when you get to the tail end of this letter, Tony has like, had his fun with Ross on the phone or whatever. Sam turns around in his cell and out from the darkness comes Steve saying, so no matter what,

I promise you, if you need us, if you need me, I'll be there. And this idea of like, Steve Rogers, I will be there. I'll be there for you, Tony. I'll be there for all these people who are locked up who stood with me on the tarmac. I will not forget about you, which is why he would never forget. about Sharon Carter, by the way. Yes. By the way.

Is just really absolutely gets me every single time when he emerges out of the shadows at the end of Civil War there. So I consider this. I mean, I would have done the price of freedom if we had just spent a ton of time talking about that on the Winter Soldier podcast. I think that is like kind of very obviously a key one. But this is a sort of sideways. Also, I wasn't sure it was going to get in elsewhere. I should have known that you would have it. somewhere, but I wanted to make sure it was represented.

So, yeah. It's a great pick. I always love to think, too, about how the letter comes with the flip phone, the burner phone. Yeah. That they're not speaking still, but Tony has that on his person. Person. Out for a jog with pepper in the park. And guess what?

He packed the very flared pants. He packed the flip phone. So good. So good. That's a great pick. I love it. I love it. All right.

eight. Sorry, I'm crying. Number eight. Speaking of Sharon Carter. Well, this is where... I think you might be doing something different. I zigged to your zag here. I thought you might.

I'm excited. I'm just hoping that you would represent for Sharon Carter here because she deserves this category. You kiss your mother with that mouth? Most appalling romantic choice slash blunder. Steve, let's hear it. Can you move your seat up? I owe you again. Keeping a list.

You know he kind of tried to kill me. Sorry. I'll put it on the list. They're going to come looking for you. I know. Thank you, Sharon. Late. No.

It wasn't late. It was wrong. Of ill. It fell and misguided. And like Sam and Bucky are giving him like faces of approval. Yeah. Yeah. I chose to start the clip with Bucky.

and Sam so that we could remember better choices right there. This is really just a terrible thing that happened in the MCU. She is known not only to us, but to Steve at this point, known relative of his great love, Peggy

Carter. Forget you kiss your mother with that mouth. You kiss the known canonical niece of your great love with that mouth. Steve. And like, I still don't understand how time travel works in the Nsview, but like, is that actually his niece? This is, I love this, this debate. I love it.

I love it. Follow question to you. Yeah. Really key, important question. How long do you think Steve waited when you travel back in time to spend the rest of his life with one Margaret Carter to tell her? to tell her. Like how many romantic slow dances

did they get in before he was like, by the way. Got a few fucks in and then he went to the dining room and pulled out a chair, turned it around and sat down and said,

so. So, I kissed your niece. Or do you think he was trying, do you think he then tried to like, no, he wouldn't like will Sharon Carter out of existence. But I love an idea

where he's like, maybe I could make it to share who's never born. So I never kissed her. So he'd have to tell Peggy that I did this. I think he just said, you know,

So I kissed your niece. I screwed up. I knew what I did was wrong. This is so tough. I like cringe when I rewatched this. All right. It's the obvious correct answer, but since I knew you were going to do it, I mean, I'm the one who wrote the category,

but since I knew you were going to do it, I decided to add another sin to Steve's list, Steve Rogers' list. Steve Allman, will you play this clip, please? Well, what about you and Stark? How do I know you two haven't been, fond doing. You still don't know a bloody thing about women.

All right. So here's the deal. Yeah. Yep. Hoops among us could probably say no to. Yeah. A blonde, beautiful Natalie Dormer, a.k. Lorraine from Captain America

of the First Adventure. Were we backed up behind a shelf? Would we say no to a smooch? Who doesn't want to see it at High Garden, you know? You can arrest us, Tileau. It's tough. But for Steve being the most virtuous man we've ever met, he really picked the exact Ramon to fuck that up because,

let's just be clear, he and Peggy could have been like not get military boots for a while before he went into the ice if he hadn't pulled this shit with Lorraine and then didn't know how to properly apologize to it, went to the whole stark fondue shit with her after Peggy shoots him in the shield. It's just an uncharacteristically bad move from our guy, Steve Rogers, who does not yet know what to do with the power of his hotness. This is real, got my first blowjob, like, you know,

mere months ago on the U.S. O tour stuff. Like, he's just... It's also new to him. So anyway, I don't blame him. I don't know that I would have made a better choice than his position, but he really lost his first round try with Peggy Carter here. But don't worry, he kissed her niece many years later. Okay, number nine, speaking of Peggy.

This category is called, if you were Peggy, you would touch two. Best use of those juiced up super serum muscles. This is not just a horny category, I promise, but I would like to hear your answer, Mallory. A lot of contenders here. I had a difficult time with this one, but ultimately I picked something that I knew had to be one of my selections.

It was down to this or another category. I decided to go out to here. Steve, can you play my clip? Records. Before we get started, does anyone want to get out? Favorite moment in the MCU? This is, of course, the genuinely, genuinely, iconic. Iconic.

Winter Soldier elevator scene. We talked about this on the Winter Soldier Pod, how one of the fun things about this is it is like, on the one hand, atop the list of most astonishing MCU fight sequences. And also you could have a very reasonable argument about whether it's even the best action sequence in its own movie, because that's how amazing the movie is. cap versus double-digit dudes in a pulsing shaft with cattle prods and handcuffs. I have no notes and I never will. Steve Allman.

Tell me. Thank you. Language. This is just a wonderful scene. Pulcing shaft. Pulsing shaft. Yeah. Is it a bad elevator shaft goes through it.

At certain times it's moving. It's rising. It's, it's, it's, it's, this is where I will reiterate that, thank you, Steve. This is where I will reiterate that next week's pod is allegedly our,

our horny bond. Allegedly. Allegedly. I can't wait to hear what you picked here. Genuinely, though, in terms of the craft of Steve Rogers, Captain America is a fighter,

the, pulling the, the magnetic cuff off the wall, everything that he's doing. It's just, it is like, you're like, holy shit,

this is not only, uh, one of the strongest, people alive, but a genius, a tactical strategist. It's wonderful in all respects. I had a number of other things I was considering here, but I'll wait to share them in case one of them is your pick. What do you have here? So when we were going back and forth on the categories for this one, and you pointed out exactly how many, like, fighting categories I had, I understood that you weren't taking this particular category as quite literally as I intended it, but I didn't,

I didn't like clarify because I was like, it doesn't, the category means what it means to the person. But my runners up, I will say, are probably the more literal interpretation of the category. I feel like there's only actually, for what I was thinking of, only actually like two answers here. And this is the one I pick, Steve. Favorite moment in all of the MCU? I knew you would pick this. This is why I felt like safe not picking it. The runner up is him ripping the wood in half on the farm farm.

Yeah. And then Tony saying don't touch for my. pile. It's unbelievable. Scandilously tight underarmor shirt that has ever existed that he's wearing an Ultron. There's another one. There's another one, which is, of course, the glistening packs and abs when the first. Oh, right out.

Fresh out the pod. Yeah, fresh out the pod. Fresh out the pod, the Peggy, you know, the butterball turkey moment. Yeah, for sure. But the helicopter moment is not just like a horny moment for the eyeballs. It is, it's a character moment because the reason it matters so much is that he's like trying to pull Bucky out of the sky with his hands and his arms. It's all he has to desperately pull his friend back to Earth so that he can save him. It's just like, and the way that like Bucky is looking at him as he's doing it is very sexually charged, I think, but also just like very, I don't know.

It's just like a very powerful cinematic moment. swear not just for horny reasons, but also for horny reasons. Like, it is, it is simply iconic. They were lovers. Thank you. The elevator fight scene is so important. I actually don't have it on the list only because we talked about it so much of the Winter Soldier podcast, but it would be as stupid to have a celebration of Steve Rogers

and not have the elevator fight. It had to me. I had to put it on. I felt so sure you would have the helicopter. I gave myself, I gave myself permission. I'm glad we both had the log roughing as a runner-up. That one is so good. The helicopter, the helicopter scene is so.

fundamental to my understanding of Steve Rogers that I had a friend of mine helped me write my bio for something. It might be on my website. I can't remember. But I don't know if you've ever had to write your own bio malory, but it's like an actively painful exercise. So I was like, can you write my bio for me? And he ended it with like Joanna loves staring at the Pacific Ocean and watching Steve Roger pull like Apache helicopters out of the sky with his muscles. It's true. You love an ocean vista and you love a flexed bicep. Do you, Do you consider the moment where Steve Rogers very clearly looks at his own flexed bicep to be the single most important moment in the history of cinema? Ever committed to film?

I think it's, you know, with love and respect to your beloved Revenge of the Sith, I think it's the most important prequel that's ever existed because I don't think you get that without you get, that's America's ass. So, like, at first he's just like, yeah, it's America's bicep. Yeah, that's America's ass also a good muscle runner up here because, boy, I mean. It sure is. No, no. In another challenge, I mean, I feel like that category was a challenge. All I did up and down this board is challenge us to come up with audio clips for nonverbal moments. Here's a very specific one.

Number 10, the strong, silent type, the most poignant moment of nonverbal acting. This was an easy one for me. This was also one of the first ones I picked. I have a very endgame heavy list here, so I considered a few. I just, I couldn't not pick this. It is in my soul. I know it is the true true. The true, Steve, to the extent that we can hear what's going on here, can we hear this clip?

Yeah, this is Chesler. I need every available NPD to sub-level six. We have a potential breach. This is, of course, the Camp Lehigh, time-ice sequence. Spoiler, not my last Peggy Steve moment of the pod. more to come on that relationship. But this scene just kills me. We talked about the Tony Howard portion of this on the last pod.

It is so emotionally rich for both of them. And the fact that we can get this heart-wrenching wallup in the center of this like plot propulsion, timey, why-mey stretch is just I think like the difficulty of balancing that is one of the things that endgame pulls off most brilliantly. So we're back here where Stephen Peggy first. met at Camp Lehigh and he's ducking into an office to evade detection. They're on the, they're on the, they're on the, they're on their tail specifically because of Tony's beard with the record state. BG's, Mungo Jerry. The first thing he sees is his photo on a desk.

And it is not just any photo. It is a photo of Skinny Steve because Peggy Carter loves not just the muscles, but the person that he is. Yeah. That good heart that Erskine identified as well. And she hasn't stopped loving him, even after losing him. And that is beautiful. And after he sees the picture, he looks back in the door and he sees her name on the door and he realizes where he is.

And then he hears her and he sees her. And they are separated by, on the one hand, like a chasm in an ocean. And on the other hand, just a pain of glass. It is like Will and Lyra or Ten in Rose, if only one of them knew. If only one, it's like so agonizing. He's so close to his love again. He can see her, you can hear her, but he can't touch her. And he can't tell her that he's there.

He can't tell her that he's okay. And the restraint that is required to pull away, like talk about a sacrifice play, the anguish and the longing on his face in that moment. as he looks at her is just astonishing. I love this moment so much. It's my favorite moment in the history of the MCU. I weep like a baby every time I see it. And then every time as I am sitting there like sobbing, like lip quivering on the couch,

Adam hits pause on the remote and says, makes some joke about how Peggy Carter is the only person who needs corrective eyewear more than I do, basically. He's like, and I was engrossed. She was engrossed in her work. That she doesn't see him and just. let me feel. She was reading a folder very actively. She was talking about lightning.

There was a lot going on. She had great hair in the moment, too. Great wig on, Peggy. Is this your pick as well? Okay. As you know, because you just did the same thing with Tony Stark, a lot of these categories are just inspired by certain moments. Like, it had to be kissing Sharon Carter, even though I zagged on that.

It had to be certain things. It is, of course, that moment. But since I had a hard time making that my audio clip, I only slightly zagged on the audio clip just to bring it back to this moment anyway. So Steve, can you play my audio clip? That was a difficult winter. A blizzard had trapped half our battalion behind the German line. Steve, Captain Rogers, he fought his way through a hydra blockade that had pinned our allies down for months. He saved over a thousand men, including the man who would take.

who had become my husband as it turned out. Even after he died, Steve was still changing my life. Let's leave questions of the vagaries of time travel aside. Okay, let's just, that's not why we're here today. This is Steve watching an interview with Peggy at the Smithsonian in Winter Soldier. But as part, if I were to bundle this, I would bundle, sandwich this in the middle of a trilogy, which is Peggy. watching the newsreel of Steve in First Avenger, where she sees that he has her photo inside of his compass. And then Steve watching this footage of Peggy at the Smithsonian in Winter Soldier.

And then Steve going to her office in Endgame and seeing that she has his photo on her desk years after he went into the ice and she has every reason to think he's dead. So these, this long game of the yearning between these two people for each other, seeing these little hints of this, like, the depth of affection that they share for each other via photos, via newsreel, via footage, and just to watch their reactions to knowing how much they meant to each other. So when he goes to Smithsonian, again, the realities of who Peggy is married to a side, what she says about him, you know, like even after his, death. Like, all of this is so poignant. But yeah, what Chris Evans does in that moment and endgame. And, you know, from a logistical screenwriter point of view, part of the reason why that is there is to help sell his choice at the end of the movie, right? He has just seen her. It's fresh on his mind. We understand all of that sort of stuff. Mostly, we understand. But I think what's also so important. about, I was thinking about the time heist and how Tony gets this really poignant interaction with his father. Steve gets this like yearning silent moment with Peggy.

And Thor gets his incredibly emotional moment with his family. Bruce, Mark Ruffalo gets to see Matilda Swinton. That's pretty nice. That's a nice thing to have happened. You know, Amaran's just happy to be included. You know, there's like varying degrees of depth for these. But like Steve and Thor and Tony get these like incredibly profound interactions with the past moments. And this is just absolutely has to be here to understand Steve and who he is.

Perfection. Number 11. Please excuse me as I toss some detritus from my trunk off the surface of this shield. He made it for you. Best use of the shield. Blerubin, what do you have here for this category? So the namesick of the category, we talked about that moment a lot on the Tony Pot, if people want to hear our discussion about that beautiful conversation and gesture,

please go listen to that pod. I shocked myself with my pick here. I just shocked myself with my pick here. This was a wild one. I'm excited. Can we hear my pick? Aaron Strucker. Hydra's number one thought.

Technically, I'm a thug for shield. Well, then technically you're unemployed. Where's Loki's Scepter? Don't worry, I know when I'm beat. You'll mention how I cooperated, I hope. I'll put it right under illegal human experimentation. How many are there? We have a second enhanced.

Female, do not engage. You'll have to be faster than... I just... And steals it. It just... I had... It's just... Oh, funny. I had to get it in here.

This is on my long list. Honestly, it's so good. Oh, good. Okay. So I had, I don't have in any of our 15 superlives today as a primary pick. Well, we're talking about Avengers a lot. We talked about a ton in the last spot. I don't have any primary picks from the Avengers. And if not for this, I wouldn't have any primary picks from Ultron. I wanted to get one of them in here. This felt like a good space for it because

I couldn't do endgame again. Obviously, he doesn't have this, the main shield, and Infinity War. And I have just so many Civil War, Winter Soldier, and first adventure moments already. So, yeah. Ultron, come on in. The water's warm, but the shield does not obey the laws of physics,

and it is about to absolutely destroy Baron Wolfgang von Strucker. This is a hilarious little, it's kind of a weird sequence in the movie, actually, if you rewatch it now on the Wanda front,

like the way that she moves and stuff is just bizarre. Bizar. It's really put in the witch, The witch and the witchcraft there, yeah, for sure. The artistry of Capp's fighting prowess is on display here in a fun way. We love a shield toss. This is a thing that Captain America, Steve Rogers, I'm just a fan's love.

Toss in the shield, hurling the shield, throwing the shield, frisbeeing the shield. But you know what I really fucking love, Joe? A shield kick. Yeah. I love a shield kick. We get one, obviously, the kick up the shield on the floor of the elevator. back into the arm and then the elevator fight scene is amazing. But here we got the rarest of things, a gift to us, a double shield kick.

Steve Rogers kicks the shield from the floor into the air and then he kicks it again into Baron Wolf King Von Struckers, chest, throat, face, and soul. That, the thing that you hear before, the whimper, the pathetic, whimper is the eyepiece falling out onto the stone ground. And it is just, it's just hilarious. I just get such a gig out of this, even though it's like a very intense moment in the movie. It's so funny. What did you pick?

Fun fact? Yeah. Not the same moment, but mine is from mere moments before, I believe. Also, Avengers Asia Voltron. Steve Lee plays this clip. It's like you're lining up. Well, they're excited. find the septa

and for gosh sake watch your language that's not going away anytime soon all right I wanted to make sure the language joke cuts is somewhere here on the pod before I knew that Steve had added it to the soundboard this is an age of Ultron

it is a Thor cap hammer shield combo which they do a couple times in the MCU when they first meet shortly after Steve calls not ma'am and

you know Tony's there etc etc they first clash where Thor brings his hammer down on Cap's shield and I think they're both

a bit surprised by how the weapons interact with each other of course there's a lot to say about Cap and Thor's hammer and what he knew and when he knew it in Ultron

etc but but this idea that Cap as the ultimate leader and delegator and knowing where the various strengths of his team are.

And so this idea that he and Thor do this together, they do the combo together without even talking about it, without even really like looking at each other. It's just something they've clearly done a million times. They know what's required here. I'll hold the shield up. You bring the hammer down. The subsequent lightning will just knock out an entire forest

full of goons and we'll just go on with our day. It reminded me of like rewatching that right before the lip piercing line when Sitwell goes off the roof in Winter Soldier and Sitwell's like, you're not the kind of person to toss someone off a roof. He's like, you're right. She is. And Nat kicks him off the roof. He's like, he knows how to use every single tool in his arsenal. And so like this is part of it is like the delegation, the collaboration of the hammer plus the shield. It's giving sports to me. It's real like middle infield duo knowing how to turn a double play together or like.

I was thinking about when I said When I said every team in his arsenal, I was thinking of the five tool player, which is a different concept I understand, but it was on my mind when I said it. But yeah, also I just shout out the shield. You mentioned the sort of circling out moment from Avengers, and I just always love that they're like doing their things.

Cap just has to be like shift, shift with his shield. He's just sort of like, and I got my shield. Bow and arrow, gun, hammer, muscles, suit. Shift, shift with my shield. I'm Cap. Anyway. Oh, man. Delightful.

Speaking of posing. Yeah. Number 12. Let's do it. To borrow from Black Widow and you'll land a below it, it's a fighting pose. You're a total poser. Capp's best entrance. Only one answer for this.

Come on. Absolutely only one answer for this. This category had to be here. Now, let's hear how you represented this. It's why the category exists. We just wanted to talk about the train station moment. Do you remember the sound that you, but also every person around you in the movie theater, emitted when you saw Infinity War for the first time?

It goes, my memory is the journey is gasp to scream to shrieve. Yeah, something like that. Yeah, as I told you as we were texting back and forth about this moment over this last week, I don't think I saw, I think I am pretty sure that I was either at ComicCon or D23, I think D23 when they showed this clip. Right. So I didn't see it in the full context of the movie and I still shrieked. It's not just the beard. It's just sort of like, it's what cap represents in this moment. And then when you see it inside the context. context of infinity more it means even more because we are like, we are with Wanda and Vision, like, sort of freshly established couple. They have like poignant two minutes of screen time or whatever to like establish their love story. But we're buying it. Paul Bettney and Elizabeth

Wilson are very good as we will show us again and again when they have their TV show together. Like it works. It works. It works. It works. Paul Benet just looks great in a coat. It all works. And then they're just like getting the shit kids. And you're so. worried about them and you care so much about that and you're like, who will help them? And then Steve is just there. It's just like, and you're just like, and like to, again, his last lines in the franchise before this is the end of civil war when he says, I promise you if you need us, if you need me, I'll be there.

And there he is. And that's there and Sam's there. Out of the shadows. Yes. To grab this alien trident spear. thing and just save the fucking day. This is also our... It's been a long, long time, because it is

40 minutes into this movie before we see Steve Rogers. 40 minutes. Now, Infinity War is a long movie, but like, you're, I mean, Kaps, the second, like, the co-lead, the second lead, like, this is a long time to wait to see him. And so we're, even though we're delighted in all the scenes and these new pairings, etc., it's, it's, we're like, where is Steve? When are we going to see Steve? And the anticipation and the wondering and the buildup is so supreme that there's this surge of relief and euphoria.

You know, I will say this is, on the, on the Wanda vision front, I actually have like a slightly different experience with the sequence, which is that I, I just find it of all the things they ask us to accept. at any point, utterly unbelievable. The things we have to ask us to believe that Wanda and Vision would not annihilate Corvus Slave and Proxima Midnight. It does take me out of it a little bit every time. But in a way that honestly makes me appreciate the Cab Ventures even more because I'm like, my brain starts racing and spinning. I'm like, oh, my God, this like, oh, blah, blah.

And then I just cease to care because. That's how I feel about the whole airport fight and civil war. I'm just like, where's Wanda to just like end this immediately? Yeah, like this is obviously, there are many moments in comic book movies where that's a thing. But it's, you mentioned when you were describing the accompanying visuals at the end of Civil War with the letter, the way that Steve emerges out of the shadow. The train sequence, the train entering, the screech, the sound, everybody's like, that nervous feeling the characters of the scene have. and then that silhouette. And we know before we see him who it is.

But the way that he, the reach, I would like dislocate my shoulder, tear my rotator cuff if I tried to replicate it like this way. It's like a sway and a reach, right? He like sways to one side and grabs it from the other. And it's just like, did you hear my back just crack when I was trying to do that? Did that? Oh, my God. I was like, we should.

We need to get mouth some super, super soldier serum. Do you think if you took some super soldier serum, you would have perfect vision? Would it become great or would bad become worse? I don't know. Do you think you would have perfect vision and perfect teeth immediately? And your mother would no longer have to worry. I never have to go to the eye doctor or dentist again. I mean, only one way to find out.

So, you know, let me get some of that sweet serum. Let me hit up with the power broker and see what's up. When he catches the spear, the thing I always think of is like, this is Loki catching the arrow if it hadn't been intended to catch it so that it could blow up in his face. This is the actually triumphant version of it. And the way the score searches in is just so iconic. And then he emerges from the shadow into the light. We see his face. We see the long hair.

We see the beard. We eventually see the forearms. It's just. Do you think so many people have ever collectively Climaxed in a movie theater? Steve? Unbelievable. Language.

Thank you. Boy, it's just a very special movie moment. Very special. Number 13. I think we have very close ones for this one. Never tell me the odds. The most during he could do this. all day moment.

Mallory. Okay. So this comes from Avengers Endgame, a little movie that you might have heard of. Indie Flick. Indie Flick. I have a bundle here. I have a trio of clips that I think cement that do this all day. Idea. Steve, can we hear them? On your left. Assemble. So my choice, we don't need to play my clip, but my clip is sort of like tucked in the folds of your little bundle here, which is right before the...

Like Steve and that. Don't say, they were lovers. Right before the Portals moment. When Steve stands up with the broken shield and his arm is busted and he... I almost pick this for most emotional moment because it makes me cry every time. And he tightens the strap of the broken shields. And he's all... I've cried on podcast talking about this before, and he's all alone, staring down, not just Thanos, but just like an intergalactic army of critters.

And Thanos gives us sort of like, oh, my God, this guy just keeps going. Like reaction. And it's just like he has no chance at all. He doesn't know that all these portals are about to open. And the portals open here on your left, which as I talked about on the Winter Soldier podcast is just like, an absolutely exquisite, you know, callback. And he's not alone, but he was ready to do it alone. But everything that he's done up to this moment and everything that they sacrifice so far

in endgame means that he doesn't have to do it alone. But he was ready to do it alone because that's what Steve will always do. He will stand up in the alley and fight the big bully. He will do that. And he was ready to do it with a fucking broken shield, a broken arm, battered, dusty, bloody. tears streaked, just ready to, I just, and I'm like, that's my, that's my guy. That's, it's the best. That's cat.

That is a part of the, this, this whole sequence that I tried to limit the, the clips, but it's, this stretch of the, the battle of earth, I mean, there are so many incredible moments inside of the third active end game, but the Steve, do it all day, aspects are just so satisfying. The conclusion of the Infinity saga, it's just unbelievable. The, I always love the look on his face in an infinity war when he's trying to tear the gauntlet off his, off Thanos's hand. I almost picked that for something. Because, but it feels connected to this too, right?

Because like, obviously everybody tries to stop Thanos, but Steve is with his bare hands, face to face. And making some progress. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And years of waiting and wondering we build toward this point. I mean, Mielnir, Cab wielding Mielnir felt like a, you know, much like the elevator scene with some of these others. It's just like we've got to have it on here in Capp's Hall of Fame induction episode.

The camera zooming in, that little shimmy that Mielnir makes and the payoff of the Ultron party scene when Thor says I knew it. I was wondering if you're going to use the audio clip where we hear the theater lose their shit when that moment happens. There are a lot of, like, I'll remember what it felt like to see that for the first time moments in Infinity War and Endgame. But this is high, high, high, high, high on this. I think for a lot of people, this is number one. Might be number one for me, honestly. My favorite moment in the history of the MCU, but perhaps you can say. I mean, the fact, like, it's bootlegged footage that, like, someone taped inside a theater of the theater losing their shit over this moment.

And Kevin Feige himself posted it on 12. Twitter. That's how much it matters. How many opportunities do you have in life to like see the impact you've made on other people? I mean, to know that's one of the things to go out of order here. But that's one of the things that I've loved over the last handful of years reading and interviews and hearing from Feigey and the creative team about was like, Avengers Assemble is a decade in the making, you know, the cut to black and Ultron toying with us. And the satisfaction of that payoff of hearing it at last. It's so funny to hear it just in audio form because Thorke's coming in first with the yell after is so, so hilarious. But the solo showdown that you picked after a meal

near and we moved to that, that gives me a chill every time. First of all, it's the wide shot of cap in the left corner and then the Galactic Army over in the right. That feels like the best version of, we talk about this idea a lot. Don't be ashamed of the kind of movie you're making. This is a comic book movie and you feel it so unapologetically. A splash page brought to life, a thing that comic book readers love and cherish there on the screen at the biggest scale possible. Like incredible. Just amazing.

And when Thanos says, what I'm about to do to your stubborn, annoying little planet, I'm going to enjoy it, we know that our Avengers, including Steve Rogers, are the people who brought that out of him, who made Mr. you know, balanced as all things should be. Yeah, just, you know, like, who doesn't have a bold, controversial idea every now and then? Listen. Say, fuck you. It's incredible.

And, like, the, the, that, I love the, that proportionate response, yeah. That idea that he won't stop. And that the fact that he won't stop is what gives everybody, like, Steve Rogers held on. He could do it all day. And he held on long enough for the portals to open and for everybody to come through. them. Just absolute perfection. It's just wonderful. Just imagine me. Imagine me weeping over collecting my clips this morning and and like, trying to figure out how far into portals I should go. I don't people just sometimes listen to that piece of score just to like

feel something. Yeah, incredible stuff. Storn in. Storn in. All right. I think also the last two are, it's going to be emotional the rest of the way. The last two are just, I think, probably have to be the same, but let's see. Number 14. Oh, interesting. Most selfless moment. Holly Rubin. I have no doubt our final pick is the same. It feels like it has to be. Think this probably is, but we'll see.

Steve, can you play my clip? Right now, I'm in the middle of nowhere. If I wait any longer, a lot of people are going to die. Peggy, this is my choice. Gonna need a rain check on that dance. All right. A week next Saturday at the Stalk Club. You got it. Eight o'clock on the dock, don't you dare be late.

Understood? You know, I still don't know how to dance. I'll show you how. Just be there. We'll have the band play something slow. You hate to step on your... Steve. Steve?

Obviously, this is a choice, yes. God reaching! Of course. How can it not be? Steve. First Avenger. Steve? Steve goes into the ice, obviously.

And again, this goes back to what I was saying before about, like, how, what a good job this, you know, Marcus and McPhilly throughout have done helping us understand what Steve is sacrificing. So, like, they're having this goodbye and it is this, you know, the idea of the dance comes back again and again and again. You know, it's his, it's his one division. It's like, you know, all this stuff. We talk about it. We might talk about it again before we finish this podcast. But we will. We might.

But it's also just so mundane. But it's like that mundane simplicity is like what it, what matters, what he's fighting for. When he says to Tony family stability, I think someone who wanted all that went in the ice 75 years ago, someone else came out. This idea of like he's not just like giving up Peggy, he's giving up like who he thought he was, who he thought he wanted, who he thought, what he thought his life was going to be, just gives it all up

in this moment of extreme sacrifice. Yeah. Oh, devastating. We won't really yet what our final category is, but they are... What could it be? They are twins. They are related.

Yes. And they will transition very nicely, one into the next. And I love First Avenger. This is so sad. even knowing that they will get their happy ending, it is just devastating to revisit and to watch. Steve?

The, you're not the guy to make the sacrifice play to lay down on the wire and let the other guy crawl over you. Origin of the recurring rifted disconnect between Tony, one of the origins. Obviously, there are others between Tony and Steve. You know, as we've talked about a few times today, like one of the things that makes that so interesting

from Steve's perspective is that we understand very intimately and deeply what a specific and personal place that comes from for him. Steve Rogers has always been the sacrifice play guy, his desire to enter the fight, his insistence on entering the fight in the first place, he had an out. He had out after out, after out. He never wanted to take it. The dummy grenade, which we already talked about, but is another wonderful reminder. Like he would have done whatever it takes before the serum or the suit. We know that about him. His walk into Hydra's den told us that.

And flying the Valkyrie into the ice certainly tells us that. And I love there are a lot of agonizing little lines and moments inside of that soundbite. But this is my choice is so rich because he's breaking his heart with what he's doing here. He's breaking Peggy's heart with what he's doing here, but he's also showing her with that line how she changed him, like how she helped him learn and grow because that's a callback to her saying to him when he was grieving, allow Barnes the dignity of his choice.

Like that was something that Steve couldn't accept. And Peggy, in his moment of genuine despair, helped him to embrace that, which then is part of what enables him to do what he does here. And, you know, you mentioned, like, the moment where she sees in the footage earlier in the film that he's got the photo, when he props that up, he's hearing her, but he wants to make sure that her face is the last thing he sees to. And then that little photo becomes this recurring, this is like the totem from inception. Like, this is just the anchor and the tethered life for him. And I mean, to the point where when, you know, Cap sees Cap. holding it in anger. It's like, where did you get that?

It's the most personal thing in a way. We talked about the Steve Peggy hospital visit also in our Winter Soldier Pod for a while, but that I have lived a life moment from Peggy. Part of the reason that it is always so devastating

to rewatch that is because you're thinking about how in this moment here for Steve, like forget the full context and full picture we have of what he ends up gaining or allowing, giving himself permission to receive, that that's what he was giving up. Like, the ability to live a life, the ability to embrace and share and experience the love of the person that he wanted to be with, like, to let that go for other people. It's a really hard thing to do. And when he has that moment with Nick Fury and Avengers at the boxing ring,

I wake up, they say we won, they didn't say what we lost. There's this larger commentary about society and progression. But he's also, of course, thinking so specifically about his life. How could he not be? And so before we get to what he gained, we have to talk about what he lost. We have to talk about what he sacrificed. It's just they're inextricable from each other. Similar to dropping the shielder wasn't just really like, it wasn't even really a choice for him.

Yeah. It's just who he is. what he's always going to do. And it's why Peggy loves him and why his, you know, photo is on her desk that many years later. So for most selfish moment, which is our final category, the twin to this category, and again, there's really no, I mean, it's just a way to talk about Steve's ending. We both know what the answer is. I think my clip might be different than yours, and I think it might proceed yours chronologically. So I'm going to ask Steve to play my clip first. if you would, Steve Alvin.

Don't do anything stupid until I get back. How can I? You're taking all this stupid with you. It's going to be okay, Buck. Steve, Roger says goodbye to Bucky Barnes, Bucky being the only one there, and who knows that Steve is not coming back, except many years later over on the bench,

just a few feet away. But where is Steve right now in the MCU? No one will ever give you a straight answer because they're just holding out hope that they can use Chris Evans again, that he will tire of it. doing whatever it is he's doing and he'll come and make more MCU movies for them. Every single person I've ever asked this question has given me an evasive answer.

Sebastian Stan, when I asked him this question, when I was interviewing him from Falcon the Winter Soldier, and I asked him this question, he responded, and like Sebastian Stan is, bless him, like, you know, a smidge of a hymbo. Like, he responded in a way that he was just like, it never even occurred to me to ask. He's like, what do you mean? I was like, where's Steve right now? He's like, oh. And he wasn't even like playing, like, I don't.

think he was doing the like, let me play dumb to evade the question I'm not supposed to answer. He was literally like, oh, what do you, oh, huh, where is Steve right now? I don't know. So where is Steve Rogers in the MCU on the moon? Who knows? But Mallory's going to wax poetic about plenty of things coming up. But I will just say that like this is a selfish moment for Steve. But and yet, Marcus and McPhile are reminding us once again.

something he is sacrificing, which is Bucky, I wish everyone had worked a little harder to help us understand how traumatic it would be to fight so hard to get Bucky back only to leave him behind and make it seem a little bit more of a difficult choice. And we get the allusion to this in Falking the Winter Soldier that they had a conversation the night before. I would have liked to have seen it personally or any meaningful interaction that they have post-Civil war. The MCU kind of forgot about Bucky and Steve, I think to sell the Steve and Peggy thing.

But as we will discuss on next week's pod, I don't need Bucky to matter less for Peggy to matter more. They both, of course, matter tremendous amount to Steve. And so, but here he is on the opposite arc of Tony Stark, you know, getting some of that life that Tony was. was talking about moving from the man who will risk everything to save people to the man who has decided he gets to have some of it for himself. What does he do in those intervening decades? We've got some questions about that. Nobody will ever tell us, I think.

Some questions about that. Mallory, what do you want to say about Steve Rogers' most selfish moment here? You know, yeah, let's not talk about how it is canonically established that Howard Stark is just wandering around Camp Leigh, I being like, Zola! My guy! Let's hang! That isn't for me. Let's put a pin in that. Or not to mention all the other like millions of atrocities that Steve knows is going to happen that he maybe can't do anything about.

Let's put a pin in that. Yeah. And let's linger in the emotion of a life at last. of getting to enjoy that life for another minute here. I love that you picked Steve Bucky clips because I picked Steve Peggy clips that also then include, of course, a conversation between Steve and Sam or Steve. Can we hear my two clips? So did something go wrong or did something go right? Well, after I put the stones back, I thought maybe I'll try some of that life, Tony.

was telling me to get. How'd that work out for you? It was beautiful. You want to tell me about her? No. No, I don't think I will. Okay, so, once again, with apologies too far from home, which technically concludes the Infinity saga.

And, of course, while acknowledging the very emotional and rewarding hammering from Tony, the Tony hammering the Mark I, which is the stinger of endgame, Peggy and Steve getting their happy ending concludes the Infinity saga. Like that is the final note for more than a decade of shared experience together.

That is, it just doesn't get heavier than that. Old Cap and Sam, even just like every time I rewatch it, I'm a mess, but hearing just in those clips, like the anguish, the years of anguish and longing for Steve, to get to see when he says it was beautiful. I love how you can hear the emotion in his voice.

There is just that lined face. There's just one thing on it. Contentment. Yeah. Like he is at peace and he deserves to be. He does deserve it. He deserves to be. And the other thing I love about that sequence so much is the no I don't think I will

is like just a perfect genius choice. because Steve Rogers is a character who for so long gave everything to other people, including his life, as we just talked about, in our 14th category. He doesn't know that he's going to be pulled out of the ice. And he decides to keep something for himself. He decides to give himself something and then it is just for him. It's just for him and Peggy. And I think that's a lesson that we could all learn from Captain America, too.

that it's important to be selfless and to care about other people and to help them be better and to let them help you be better. But you can only really do that if you find ways to be happy as well. And that's like one of the great lessons that Steve Rogers Ark in the MCU gives us. And that's incredible. And when the music kicks in, we think back to like hearing it on the record player and Winter Soldier and Steve and Peggy get their dance at long last and we're paying off the second. since First Avenger, we've been building toward this moment. Every now and then in stories, you get so, all right, they knew they had to, they had to type the loose end.

They had to check the box. They had to do the thing that we all knew they were going to do. And like, you feel the forced nature of it. No. This is just, it is so well orchestrated every step along the way to get there that, like, it feels like the symphony, the chorus that we're hearing. First Avenger, the car ride. Yeah.

You must have danced. You must have danced shreds me into a million pieces every time. And that's, of course, then the origin of the right partner idea that recurs. You know, I figured I'd wait for what, the right partner. We go to the bar in First Avenger. We get the right partner callback. This is incredible Bucky flirting with Peggy in that sequence. Peggy and Steve fucking each other with their eyes.

and Peggy saying, I might even, when this is all over, go dancing. And Bucky just jumps in and what are we waiting for? And Peggy says, the right partner. One of, I think, the most underrated, hilarious moments in the MCU is when she leaves. And Bucky's like, I'm invisible. I'm turning into you. It's a horrible dream. It's just so good.

The Valky, the clip we just heard above. I'll show you how. I'll show you how is my favorite part of that. It's just partnership and communion. and connection. Like, it's us. It's us, the two of us together and we'll figure it out. The stinger of First Avenger, I had a date.

Like, this is the through line of the whole story for Steve. Winter Soldier, the song on the record player. Sam, we talked about this moment in the Winter Soldier pod at the VA. What makes you happy? I don't know. Like, that just always destroys me because Steve, and then how we think of what it means for Steve to get to the moment where not only he does know and he can acknowledge that,

but allows himself, like gives himself the grace to perceive that. It's just wonderful. The hospital scene, Peggy's, all we can do is our best. Sometimes the best that we can do is to start over a lesson that he didn't even know was a lesson at the time in this particular application,

but influences this moment and so many others. You mentioned the vision in ultra- that Steve has from the Wanda Planted Vision is this dance. Are you ready for a dance? The line that always kills me in that stretches, the war's over Steve. We can go home. Imagine it.

This is the thing that is tailored to torment Steve Rogers. Torment him. Peggy saying to him, we can go home, imagine it because he doesn't, it's an impossibility to him. It's not a thing.

Imagine it what? Imagine the thing you can never have, the thing you can never enjoy, the thing that you were deprived of because of your, because the good becomes great, because of that compassion, because of what you're willing to do for other people. Someone else came out of the ice line you mentioned before.

Something like in Civil War, this is with Bucky, but that idea of like it always ends in a fight when Bucky says that, and you have to think about how that, for a lot of Steve's life also felt true to him, like what else was there. And then that Nat Steve scene,

an end game that we talked about already, like every beat, every, Every film, every installment, we're leading toward this moment. But what's incredible about it? And what is just the genius of the Infinity saga that, like, so many people don't understand, is, like, this all feels so inevitable and was also not plans. You know what I mean? Like, if Agent Carter, the TV show had not been canceled and had gone on longer or whatever, we're not getting this as a conclusion for Steve Rogers's story. Watch every second of that show.

Yeah, but, like, I'm not saying anything negative. about the show, but if it had a bigger audience, they would not have been able to tell quite this story. And so it feels that there are just, as you beautifully laid out, as you always do, breadcrum upon breadcrum upon breadcrum leading here that makes you think there's no other way this could have ended, but it is not the proposition of the MCU at the time, not what the Russo Brothers or Marcus McPhile are working with. They are constantly improvising the dance to make it feel choreographed. And that is not. what is absolutely

just exquisite about endgame and I want to talk briefly about the song choice for it's been

a long long time this idea that it this record came out after it came out the year that Steve went into the ice

but it came out after Steve went into the ice but the sentiment of it it was a it was a song that just like

top the chart after World War II, in this sense of what Peggy is talking about in that Wanda Vision, of like, we get to go home. The lyrics that are playing as they're dancing at the end of endgame never thought you would be standing here so close to me. There's so much I feel that I should say, but words can wait until some other day, kiss me once and kiss me twice and kiss me once again, right? And so, like, when kissing and dancing will do what words cannot do, this is the coming home dance. This is a record that he, as you mentioned, in Winter Soldier, he, like, picked up and

hung on to as, like, something he loved that Nick Fury could put on the record player when he walks in in Winter Soldier, just something that, like, he decided that sentiment of going home again, this wish that he would never get to fulfill for himself and then finally gets to because of Pibb particles, thanks science. But just like that, very specific. song choice is so phenomenal. And it's so complicated because I remember

when Endgame came out, the endless debate back and forth of like, would Steve actually do this? Could someone is heroic at Steve Rogers really hang up the shield and choose life, choose a kitty? Like, do all that. And I think it's, I think it is worth debating.

I think it is endlessly worth debating, which is a great. bold screenwriting choice. We're not doing an obvious thing. We're doing something that slightly challenges our conception of a character. But it's such an interesting conversation because you never want to say

Steve shouldn't do this. Because Steve does deserve this. We all deserve. Nat deserved it. Tony definitely deserved to have the time that he had with Morgan and Pepper. Like, we all deserve this. You cannot pour for him.

vessel. You got to go get some life to go along with everything else that you're doing. And so you're like, he wouldn't do it, but he should have done it. Or he shouldn't have done it, but he would have done it. You know, like, that was part, the vagaries of time travel post end game debate irritated me. But this character-based question really engaged me and fired me up for a really long time after weekend. It's interesting to discuss and consider. And I think also like it does get back to what you were saying. And they leave it open strategically as a question. Will we ever get more Chris Evans and Cap in this way in the MCU? But like, we don't actually know.

We don't know what he did with his time. We don't know that he didn't find a way to fight and battle. We don't, just because he gave himself this life with Peggy, doesn't mean that he didn't find other ways to, like, be more of the classic cap that we would expect. But I think if he didn't, then part of the lesson of, of not just his story, but their shared story. You know, you mentioned the inversion for Tony and Cap.

And, like, part of how Steve honors Tony's sacrifice is by allowing himself to live a life, right? And he specifically says, like, Tony was always telling me to. And, like, what was the sacrifice for if people can't find a way to be happy? He's honoring that conversation with Nat. You first. Like, the people closest to him in the world. But we didn't get to see the conversation with Bucky and I agree with you. It's outrageous.

But I think we know. We know that Bucky told him to go do this. We know that Bucky gave him the permission to. And hopefully one day we'll see it. After they had goodbye sex. Okay. After. Cool.

And I, so this, you know, I love that you said to the lyrics too because why, while I had no doubt we would both pick the camp lehigh moment for nonverbal, this was the other consideration, the dance specifically for the nonverbal moment because everything is just written on the smile on their faces. It's a profile shot. So we're not even seeing either of them head on, but like you can feel the intensity of how they're looking at each other and just to like be able to put your hand in the hand of the other person that you've longed to be with all that time and like wrap your arm around their back or their waist. I mean, this is a mission and a life fulfilled for Steve Rogers, this one moment. And that's why I think just getting to hear him

say it was beautiful with so much emotion in his voice is like, I love the debate too. And I agree with you. I think it's a worthy one and a fascinating one and probably one that MCU fans will never tire of having. But I, I, I'm happy that Steve Rogers made this choice. Like, I'm glad for him and I want this for him. It's beautiful. Just like you said. There's this line from when I wrote about this MCU moment back in the day,

I was like digging through the meaning of the song, et cetera, et cetera. And I was reading the eulogy that David Hinkley wrote for Kitty Call and the vocalist from a long, long time. on the Huffington Post when she died 2016, and he said of the song, those lyrics were simple and sentimental. They weren't a holler of joy. They were more pensive, almost melancholy. It had been a long, long war.

And for Steve Rogers so much longer than anyone else. And for all of us, the fact that Endgame ends with Tony's funeral, Tony's I Love You 3000, this moment for Steve where he does, they're at peace. They're getting a slice of life, all of that. But it is melancholy because all of the pain

that they had to go through to earn this moment. And that's how we all walked out of the Infinity saga, just being like, and then, you know, you always like to reference Far Far Far Far From Home, which is important. That is also still continuing to reckon with Tony's loss, et cetera. And so this idea that we weigh

through this decade plus of filmmaking and came out the other side, not just like fifth, fist pumping. Yeah, that fucking rule, but like soul squawes in, just sort of just like aching. And that's why this story, you know, no matter what happens the MCU in the future, it doesn't matter. This happened and this worked. Totally agree. And this mattered. And it'll matter all the more to people.

who were younger than you and I were when they watched it and we'll just grow up with this is this foundational stretch of filmmaking of their childhood. So I'm happy for them. I'm happy for us. I'm happy fifth anniversary end game. Happy anniversary end game. Happy Hall of Fame to Stephen Tony and Mallory, I love you. 3,000, you know?

I love you 3,000, my favorite capsicle. All right, anything else we want to say about Steve before we go? I don't think so. Well, that's that is America's pod, this episode of Hasamar. Well, I loved it. Had a blast. I have something to say about Steve Allman. Steve Allman, thank you for your fine work on this pod and on the Tony Stark pod.

You had a Herculian task with a million different clips and some new sounds for the soundboard. We love you. Also, 3,000. You're the best. Thank you to our general friend of Powell for his work on this. many other episodes that we do and Jomey had dinner on for his work on the social. We'll be back next week with some Star Wars animation and some fandom thruples. Please do email us.

Hobsendragons at gmail.com. Go ahead and push the boundaries of the definition of that word fandom. We don't mind. And we will see you next week. Go see Challengers. Y'all are the best. Happy anniversary. Love you, Mal.

Bye.