House of R - ‘House of the Dragon’ Episode 2 Deep Dive

Episode Date: August 31, 2022

Gods be good—Joanna and Mal return to discuss the second episode of ‘House of the Dragon’! They offer thoughts on the episode when they Rally the Realm (04:52). Then they head to the Dragon Pit and dive deep into the episode (08:28). Later they bestow the award for the episode’s Faceless Man (02:40:14) and engage in book spoilers and future-episode speculation (02:43:01). If you would like to email Mal and Joanna about the show, you can reach them at [e-mail] Hosts: Joanna Robinson and Mallory Rubin Senior Producer: Steve Ahlman Social: Jomi Adeniran Addition Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, my name is Dave Gonzalez, and I haven't read any of the books in George R. Martin's The Song of Bison Fire. I'm Joanna Robinson. I've read every book in George R. Martins, a Song of Ice and Fire. And I'm Neil Miller, and I have also read all of those books. We are headed back to Westeros to cover the Game of Thrones spin-off series, House of the Dragon. We'll be answering your question, so send us a raven at Trialby Content at gmail.com. Take some bread and salt and join us Thursdays on the Trial by Content feed, and don't worry, you're safe. The reins of Castamere hasn't even been written yet. With adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start.

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Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramphia today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Trimfairadio.com. episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need WeatherTech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner or a road trip goes sideways. Catchup goes rogue ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud,

you're inevitably going to step into the summer. You don't need WeatherTech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. I wish I had known better what to say to you in the aftermath. I struggled to realize that my daughter had so quickly become a woman grown. But I know she understands what is now expected of me. The king must take a new wife. I could never replace your mother. No more than I intend to replace you as heir.

But you are my only heir. And our line is vulnerable, too easily ended. By marrying again, I may begin to ensure that we are better defended. Against who? Whomever may dare to challenge us. And welcome into the Ringerverse, here on the Ringer podcast network. I'm Mallory Rubin, and it is my absolute pleasure to invite you not only back to Dragonstone, but to join us on the Ringer's Nexus podcast feed for all things fandom.

Joining me today, now that she's finished telling me the maggots will remove the dead flesh, And hopefully stop the advance of the rot. It's my house of our working title. Co-host, Joanna Robinson. Oh, Mal, I am so delighted to inform you that I have an entire truck full of maggots here for you. Just enough to get us through the many hours of this podcast. Let's go. I should hope so.

I was counting on it. All right, Joe, before we dive in to House of the Dragon, Hot D, episode two, the rogue prince, written by Ryan Condal, directed by, Greg Guitanus. We have some programming reminders. As always, lots of them are throne-centric. Talk the Thrones. Sunday night, right here on the ringerverse.

The watch Sunday night. House of our deep dive here on Tuesdays, you know that, because you're listening to this pod and trial-by content on Thursdays with Joe, Neil, and Dave. And there's plenty of non-hot D content coming to, Joe, on Friday at long last, we get to dive deep into the rings of. of power to episode premiere. I'm so excited for that.

Thirled. Absolutely. Cannot wait. Plenty else cooking on the feed for you. The Midnight Boys will be here on Wednesday. Of course, pew, pew.

Some She Hulk talk coming on Thursdays. Follow all of it. By following the pot on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. And Joe, where can the people find us on social? Oh my gosh. Well, listen, anywhere.

TikTok? Yeah. Twitter? Yeah. Facebook? Yeah. And best of all. and most importantly, per our beloved Jomey.

Follow us on Instagram. There is some vague, I don't know what the number is. Threshold he wants to cross. Let's make it happen. Instagram. Ring her first. Do it. Absolutely.

Love Instagram. I think the threshold was 25 million. We're supposed to hit the same total as House of the Dragon. That's the goal. Let's make it happen. Okay, great. Yeah. One listener at a time.

Thanks. Joe, what if instead of, or hey, in addition to social media, People want to email us. Where can they reach us? It's Hobbits and Dragons at gmail.com. And you don't have to write that down and remember it because Steve will have put it in the episode description in your podcatcher.

So hobbits and dragons at gmail.com. We got so many good emails. Send us more. Can't get enough of them. Keep them coming. Incredible stuff. Our last program we noticed the same one that we always end on. It's our friendly neighborhood spoiler warning.

Today's podcast will of course feature plot detail. Ample ones at that from Hot D episode two and all of Hot D to date, as well as all sorts of plot details from a television program that you might have heard of called Game of Thrones. That's all on the table. If you're wondering,

will there be book spoilers for future plot points? That'll all be in a separate section at the end. You will be warned again on the eve of that section. The rest of the pod is safe for everyone. We will warn you when the book talk for the look ahead stuff is coming. All right, Joe. Yeah.

It is time for our top of pod tradition, a little opening snapshot. Steve, can you help us rally the realm? Beautiful. Joe, we have some news. Hot D renewed for season two. Not surprised, but delayed to hear it. Like, I definitely, definitely, absolutely, definitely thought this was happening. But good to know as official.

So that's great. Turns out if you shatter viewership records, as this show has done, you get renewed very quickly. So that's thrilling. What I thought? 10.2 million night one for episode two. So that's up 2% actually off of the premiere, which according to HBO has now reached the 25 million mark.

So a lot of people are watching this show. People like Game of Thrones. Great for us. Thanks for listening, everyone. Before we dive deeper into all of the scenes and plot points of episode two, what's your quick overall impression of the second installment? moment. Yeah, I really liked it. I liked it a lot. I think when I first, you know, it's been, there's a little six-month time jump, which we talked about on Talk the Thrones on Sunday.

Like, there's a little time jump here, and I think it took me a minute to get my bearings as to when we were, how much time is past, what are the relationships now, what's the standing of everyone in court? And I think that's something we're going to get for the next few episodes are these like hop, skips and jumps. And so for me, each time I rewatched the episode and felt like more oriented in the world. I liked it better. And I just think that that confrontation at Dragonstone on the bridge with the fog and the low sun and the dragons was just one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen on Thrones. And I feel like that confrontation, that showdown, I don't know. Like, I don't know what's to come. Many delights to come on House of the Dragon,

but that feels like it's going to stick out forever as this iconic visual of the dance of the dragons. How about you, Mallory? I assume you mean it's going to stick out forever as the moment when Chris Ryan had to acknowledge there's more than one dragon in this story. I'm just going to go with that.

We'll get him yet, Mallory. I believe. I believe in Chris. I loved this episode as well. I similarly really enjoyed it and have enjoyed it even more on subsequent viewings. It has that thing that we love so much, Joe. great conversations and elegant rooms,

the old Tyrionism, and you pair that with the beautiful, stunning set piece that you mentioned, the Dragonstone Bridge sequence, and you imbue the entire episode, those lovely, quiet, rich and nuanced small council sequences,

the high stakes, confrontations in the low light and the heavy fog alike, with these through lines and these themes, the alliance building, duty in the heart in conflict, a favorite talking point of ours, the self-made pursuits of these second sons,

whether or not they're literally second sons. This was an incredibly compelling character-driven episode that I really enjoyed. And I'm hyped. I'm hyped about the show so far, and I can't wait for more. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, Reliable Internet, means,

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Should we do it? Should we dive into the episode itself? Let's do it. Steve, take us into the dragon pit. Thank you for this. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Mallory was doing like a little celebratory dance.

I'm like, here we go. And then she was startled by the screech of her own voice. I told you I was ready to dance this week, Joe. Oh, boy. And you know what? When you're ready to dance, you're often dancing to music. And we got an iconic theme back. in our lives today because we got opening credits. We were not able to talk about the opening

credits on Talk to Thrones because they were not in the screener, but we got to see these along with everyone else on Sunday night. Joe, I want to talk about the music and I want to talk about the visuals, the overall response that you had to these new opening credits, the Thrones opening credits, you know, the Mount Rushmore, on the Mount Rushmore of television opening credits. What did you think about the music choice here to use the main? Throne's theme instead of crafting something specific to Dragon. Hot D. A bunch of people are stressed because they wanted like a Hot D only track, another like Rameen Javadi Banger.

And I like, I'm always here for Rameen Javadi Banger, but I'm not stressed about the Thrones theme being recycled. But I guess my bigger question is, is if they do all the spin-offs that they're in sequels and prequels that they're planning to do, is it always going to be the Thrones theme at the beginning of it. I don't know. Yeah. This is their version of a Star Wars story, you know? It's our connected tissue across our ever-expanding IP universe. Yeah, I get it. I got it. Not only did hearing the main Thrones theme not bother me, I was delighted. It just feels like a great piece of shared DNA, a strand of shared DNA across all of the all of the shows. I love it.

I loved it. I don't know. I'm an easy mark. Predictably, I loved it. I'm going to write it down. What is the time? Mallory loved it. We're 15 minutes into the pot and I loved it, Joe.

I loved it, Joe. How about the visuals in place of our map of the world and our tour of castles, we got rivers. torrents of blood running through the Targaryen family tree on a stone model of Old Valeria. What'd you think? I'm less high on this, but I'm willing to let it grow on me. I thought the blood looked a little silly, but I like the concept of the blood. So we get this, like this Targaryen family tree in the model of old Valerian. which a lot of people had predicted maybe the model of Volus

instead of the map of Westeros would be sort of our thing here. I'm sorry, are you thrilled that the Lego village made its way into the opening credits? I always love a Lego set. But I think what's, like, here's where I will, I'll ding it most significantly, is that it's highly confusing, even to people who are experts on this show. And I would count people like way above my expert level. We're not like, they're like, I understand I'm looking at Targaryen vent. But what is that sigil and what does that symbol mean?

And they had fun pouring over it, freeze framing it, explaining it. That's Jeharis's crown. That, oh, it's tinged blue because the Valarians are there. Like, you know, there's a lot of breakdowns that you can find that are helpful. But I, but like the beauty of the Game of Thrones opening credits, it was so instructive even for not. It oriented you. Yeah. Yeah.

It was helpful for casual viewers. And so this is the opposite. It's like confounding even for expert viewers. And so, and what's true is that, you know, the last sigil we see, so the blood is slowing these various little clockwork in a callback to the other, the Gim Throne's opening clockwork mechanisms that have little symbols that represent various members of the Targaryan family tree. And if you're aware of how the bloodline flows from Agon down the Targaryan tree, you can start to pick out who. you know, these people are supposed to be rep. But it ends with Reneira, but is that necessarily where our story or future Targaryan anthology stories that they want to tell under the banner of House of the Dragon?

Is that where it's going to end? Probably not. And so I'm anticipating that we're going to see this thing to develop as it goes on. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Agreed. Here's where this was helpful. You said it at 15 minutes for me saying, I love a thing.

I hope you said it a 20 for me saying, I need glasses. Because it was a helpful reminder that I need corrective lenses. I was like not only going freeze frame, but zooming, holding my computer an inch from my face standing up to look at my television. It was slacking with Riley and Cram immediately. And Riley was doing. And I'd recommend that anybody who wants the beat by beat, sigil by sigil, crown by crown rundown of who is on the tree. read Riley's great breakdown on The Ringer.com. What a great website, his Tuesday piece where he does go frame by frame and explain what we're seeing there. You know, is this Rhenyce and Marraxies?

This looks like a long object that might be a bolt through the eye. And it was kind of fun in that way as almost like a treasure hunt. And I love an Easter egg hunt. I love a feeling like I'm working toward that, that goal. But I think your point that the maybe instant clarity that the map provided for the first show is not on offer here. I do think that thematically, this feels quite apt. The torrents of blood running through this family's tree, it's one more connection to old Valeria, which has been a real repeat occurrence over these first two episodes, the roots of the freehold for this family. Did you have, I'm curious, like a favorite image for any of the characters that we lingered on, however,

briefly? Yeah, I will say two things. Number one, on the blood front. Yeah. Fire and blood, Joe. Yeah. Oh. It's all right there in the name.

Yeah, in the house works. Yeah. Wow. Wow. Yeah. Okay. Didn't even think about it. No, I'm just kidding.

When Viseris is showing his bride to be, Allison, his Lego model village in his, in his chambers, he points out this building that he calls the Inogrian. And when I watched this on screeners without the benefit of closed captions, I was like, the what now? And Googled it to no avail. And then as soon as I saw it spelled in the captions, I looked again, it's not mentioned anywhere in George R. Martin's writing. So this is a show invention.

Though it does already have its own page on like a Wiki of Ice and Fire because, you know, it was mentioned here. But he says this is where the blood mages work their magic. And so this idea of not just the bloodline, and we'll talk about why the bloodline is so important to the Targaryens as we have been talking about it, but the idea of blood magic and the blood magic that ran through old Valeria, I think, is a part of it. To answer your actual question, my favorite sigil was the necklace for Renera, the last one, because this is like, this is something connected to the show. I think it was the clearest iconography. like the, you know, shout out to the crowns, but I really loved the rinerer necklace that's Valeria's deal that she got from Damon

that she wears all the time. That's probably my runner-up. I'm going to pick Agon, the Conquerors. I really loved that, the combination of the scene, and this is the opening glimpse, that's depicted,

sure looks like the doom of Valeria. And again, it's one more tie there and thinking now about that through the context of Agon's dream and the weight of working to prevent another cataclysm. That was really cool. And then to see that iron crown, the weight of that iron crown that we've already heard mentioned at the bottom of that scene, that was really cool. So that's my, that's my pick for now. But preserve the right to change my mind at any point.

This is always the case, you know. I'm a free spirit. just like the crab feeder. And that takes us to the stepstones. What a transition. Your expert podcaster. What an ominous opening note and closing note for the episode. This is the looming conflict with the triarchy, with the crab feeder in the stepstones.

Bookends this episode of television. We get these really gorgeous. I feel like a bit of a sociopath describing this as gorgeous film. making, given the number of times we zoomed in on rotting hands and crabs burrowing into opened gnawing foot wounds. And yet, I thought it was visually striking. I won't lie. Yeah.

I agree with you. Something that we should say is that, you know, not everything that they're doing on House of the Dragon is filmed on location, the way that they film most things. And we've talked about this before. the increase in CG locations for this show. That being said, this was definitely filmed on a beautiful glory. I think they're not faking the beaches, essentially. The beaches and the shorelines,

they're actually making the effort to go out to the shoreline, and I think it really pays dividends here. I think it's absolutely stunning, and we see this ominous figure in outline here. Should we say something that we love? learned from the behind the scenes documentary about the crab feeder who we made here. Yeah. Share it. That he is gray scale. I mean, we got a lot of emails before this little documentary came out

about like, I think he has gray scale. Does the crab feeder have gray sale? He doesn't do have gray scale. And also the mask he's wearing is the sons of the harpy mask, which you might remember the sons of Harpy from Game of Thrones. There's no real good reasons why you would have a Sons of the Harpy mask at all. But, so, So it kind of feels like recognizable throne's iconography on this guy. Look, he's got Grey's Gale. Look, he's got his sons of the Harpy mask. There was an interesting explanation in that little House the Dragons built feature at,

which you can find on HBO Max about how he finds these relics on the open sea, shipwrecks, etc. And so this is like a collection. But I assume he found the grayscale out there on the open sea to perhaps sailing through the ruins of old Valeria. One more connection to Old Valeria and our beloved Stoneman. I guess it tracks, you know, based on the look that it is Grayscale. That makes sense.

Could have been a very, very, very gnarly sunburn, a lot of time out on the open water. But no, it's Grayscale. Makes us think of Jora, our beloved. I'm always thinking of Jora, as you know. Makes me concern, Joe, for people who are going to come into contact with him, though. You don't want to be around someone with Grayscale and especially not somebody. who's wearing any coverings over his gray scale ridden extremities. Everyone better come gloved and booted to the stepstones.

That's how I feel. Should we go to our first email? This email came from Holly who wrote, My brother and I are big fans, and he is fixated on the idea of, do people eat the crabs who have eaten the Westerosie sailors? Is that a luxury good in this world? or are these crabs tainted now, Mallory Rubin,

famed daughter of Maryland. Yeah, yeah. What can you tell us about like the foggwa of crabs, crabs that have fed on human flesh? You know, listen, I'm no thin. I'm not interested in consuming human flesh directly or inside of a... shellfish creature that I may then consume. However, in the interest of candor, I will say that even though

this opening, you know, the screams are really filling our ears as the carcasses, the strewn bodies fill our eyes. And I was thinking, I'd like some delicious steamed crabs to fill my stomach. It made me hungry. It did. I love a steamed crab. It spent, you know, a good portion of Talk the Thrones with you and Chris talking about how our guy, the crab feeder, feels about Old Bay seasoning. Why not get a little crab cake in the mix? Maybe a nice bowl of delicious, hearty, Maryland, crab, soup. Who says no? From seafood to wine, pouring in to a waiting chalice, as we mourn Saraiam red wine.

We quite literally hardly knew you on this here, television program, House of the Dragon. And we need to take a moment to properly honor and pour one out for Sorayaum, one of the most fabled knights in the history of the seven kingdoms, unceremoniously disposed of between episodes. This is like real bears and selmy died in a back alley energy, honestly. Oh my God. Jokes aside, Joe, did, you know, you meant.

already the time jump, the six months passing between episodes. Did the Sarayam, the nature of that reveal, give you any time jump jitters? Like, oh, we're just going to find out via a line of dialogue that certain characters have actually died because the amount of time that's passing between episodes. Did that throw you off at all? I don't say jitters, but I will say that, like, I do think for the next few episodes, we're going to have to, like, take a beat and orient ourselves every week. But I thought what you said on Talk the Thrones was really smart, which is just sort of like, that means that these few days that we're watching, and I think rewatching and rewatching and rewatching this episode, plotting mornings and evenings and stuff like that, I think this is three days. I think this is in the span of three days and one dress for Allison High Tower. All of this happens.

Three crucial days in Westeroce history is what we're watching. So, yeah. That dress. I love how we're going to have to add dress watch to wigwatch. I think it's an imperative. I'm going to talk about it. I have a lot to say. Just now.

It looks so distressed. Okay, I'll talk about it now. The one dress of Allison Tye Tower. Her mother's dress, presumably? Absolutely. Definitely her mother's dress. Okay, so here's what happens, right? Last week's episode where Otto's like, want to go visit the queen?

want to put on one of your mom's dead mom's sexy dresses. So she goes to the king. Super normal. The end of episode one. Father-daughter conversation. Super normie, right? Goes to see Otto. She's wearing a, not the dress she's wearing this week. She's wearing a green number with some like lacy. It's, it is tight and partially see-throw and green. Great. Gross. Great. She goes to, to read to the king. This is six months into Otto High Towers, long con on the king. presumably, and he sends Allison over there multiple times a day, honestly. Like, she is there for breakfast, lunch, a dinner in the king's room. I have to imagine that hopefully her mom had more than two dresses hanging in her closet.

Like, if the green one's in the laundry and this green blue one is the only one available that she wears all through this episode, that's an issue. So why, if Otto's on this like Operation Seduce the King with my teenage daughter gross, part of that operation auto is we're going to need to commission some more dresses. Okay? I need more dresses. That's all I'm saying about that. Maybe all of them are torn and currently being mended because Viseras's chambers are littered with shards of shattered stones.

Because he keeps dropping them because his finger is rotting. Her dress is just constantly shredded by the fallen parapets of. Valeria. Yeah. Let's go with that. What do you think? Symbolic? Believe it or not, I have more to say about this dress, but we'll say that for later.

Stay tuned, folks. We call that a tease here in the business. This episode is brought to by Viori. When it comes to close, that score high in both comfort and style, Viori is my MVP. Sunday performance joggers, oh yeah. They have the perfect. I could watch a game and then go out to dinner vibe. And the metapant, that's my number one.

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Watch only on Prime. Speaking of a tease and a real harbinger here, our guy, Corliss, the Sea Snake, charges in to the small council to state and profess his outrage over the conflagration, as he calls it, in the stepstones. Now, we said we had moved on from Sir Ryan, and we're never going to talk about him again,

but I actually have to say one more thing. The toughest of looks that the legendary Sir Ryan that discussing his death is considered dithering about court business by the sea snake. Wow, you devote your life in service to the crown. For what? Meanwhile, the non-book readers are like, I literally don't know who you're talking about.

He's in the background of one season. Joe, we are going to break down this really fascinating exchange between Corlis and the other assembled members of the small council. But quickly, some context for the assembled here in our own small council, House of R on the Ringerverse on the Ringer podcast network. Let's get some orienting canon details on the stepstones, the triarchy, and cragis crab feeder. What's fascinating about this episode is that it is literally like four pages of the book, literally, four whole pages of the book. But the sequence about the step zones, I'll just read to you. The stepstones, of themselves, the aisles were of little worth, but places they were, they controlled the sea lanes to and from the narrow sea, and the merchant ships that passing

through those waters were often preyed on by their inhabitants. Still, for centuries, such depredations had remained no more than a nuisance, dun, dun, until the crab feeder starts pulling his bullshit, right? So basically, like, as you mentioned, as you outlined on the Thrones, you know, Dragonstone and Driftmark, these are islands that are close to the shore. The stepstones are further south, but they are imperative to the trade routes. And who is going to be most impacted by the trade routes? Corlis Valerian who makes his money off of trade and Spice Town and all this sort of stuff.

So that's the significant. They're not significant in and of themselves, but they are in terms of what they're their perch allows pirates to do to the trade. So there's that. Do you want to talk about the triarchy, Mallory Ribbon? It would be my pleasure. It would be my pleasure. Just as it's our pleasure to visit Esos whenever we can.

And that is where the three free cities, the kingdom of the three daughters, as the Westerosies like to say, are. The triarchy is Mir, Lise, Tyroche. Now, we hear in this exchange, Vesaris note that he is doing stuff, don't you fear, don't you worry, never you mind. He sent envoys to Pentos and Valentus. Well, why those free cities? Because

they are in opposition. Valantis, in particular, there's a very intense recent history of conflict. between the triarchy and valantis. So the idea that valantis would be motivated to thwart this threat, this threat is a logical one, despite everybody's notes about Vassaris's overall plan. And guess what? We have some of our own for King Vassaris coming up shortly on this very program. The thing I love about George R. Martin's world, even if you're like just a casual TV watcher,

which is absolutely a gem of a person to be, when you say Mere and Lee's, and Tyroche, like, you think Thoros of Mir, right? You think the tears of Lees, which is a kind of poison. Or a Leesian pleasure house, you know, ring or verse contains adult content. Tell me. Oh, Lord Beesbury. Oh, God. Or Darryan Naharis is from, is Tyraashi.

You know, there's just sort of like, it's just caked in there. And, like, that's why George is so good. good at building the world that he builds, you know? Yeah, we have those touchstones. We do. I love it. We also would be remiss if we didn't mention currency, tolls, because as we like to say on basically every podcast, one of George's driving pursuits when he set out to craft his own world was the what is Erdogan's tax policy idea. And in the books, when the triarchy takes root, there's initially this contentment. Okay, yeah, hey, you're dealing with the pirates and keep an order here.

We'll pay your tolls. But then what happens when those keep rising? What happens when the reach becomes too extreme? And so we are getting the show's version of that here because we did have that moment in episode one, the almost offhanded, oh, this crap feeder guy you seem so worried about is cleaning up some of the pirate business that now we don't have. have to worry about, which is almost akin to the logic of, isn't Damon occupied with his gold cloaks? Isn't this actually solving a problem for us? And the real, like, failure of that logic in King Viseris's reign,

just because something is temporarily preventing you from needing to deal with something doesn't mean that the A problem is solved or B, another problem is not about to take root. And this is why. in addition to the direct threat to his wealth, as you noted, Corliss is so furious about what is being allowed to take root here. He notes that four more ships have been taking one, flying his own banners and a fronty cannot abide, of course. And one of the great things in this sequence

is that Corliss and Otto are yet again opposed. We're stunned, stunned that these two are on the opposite side of an argument. Remember, of course, they were. opposed to the question of Damon as a reasonable air to consider in the first episode. And I love that moment when Otto, even though in general wealth is the focus wealth station, Corliss is basically mortified on Otto's behalf that he suggests, oh, we'll compensate you for this, because it is to Corliss.

So beside the point, like that's not actually addressing the problem. It's addressing a symptom. And he wants to go root out the problem at its source. And I love what that says about their different perspectives and the way they seek to achieve an end. We should say that in fire and blood, the crab feeder, when he's not nailing people's hands to, you know, sticks on a beach, taking women, girls and comely young boys off ships in order to serve in their place. Pleasure Gardens and Pillow Houses. So sex labor is what the old crab fader is, you know? Just adding that to the list of things we know about him.

Well, that's going to make what I share next even more damning, which is the Sarah saying in the face of Corliss's plea, I am not prepared to start a war with the free cities. He is opting, and this is a theme of the episode, a central theme, for in action. And even though our guy Beesbury didn't get enough screen time,

very small TRT total runtime for our Guy Bees in this episode. Absolutely indignant over the fact that Vassarice meets one-on-one with every other member of the small council, but not Breesbury. We were robbed.

Release the Bees. So even though Beesbury is also counseling caution in this exchange regarding the idea of, of war with the free cities, because he does note that the seven kingdoms have never entered open war with the free cities. And he says, quote, were that to happen, the losses would be incalculable.

The entire exchange here still begs this key central question for this episode and the series at large. Yeah. What is Viseris prepared for? What is he prepared to do? What decision is he prepared to make? And that sets up this larger threat that Corliss then observed. This isn't just about the crab feeder.

This isn't just about the stepstones. There is no reason to fear the crown. Viseris won't address the triarchy. He won't address Damon, who has taken up residence at Dragonstone, the seat for the air. Reneira brought the gold cloaks there with him. We get a couple different sequences in this episode where Coralus just runs through the list of things that Pizarres is not dealing with. It's incredible. And Rainey's is like, oh, you forgot a few. Let me add some, you know. Amazing. Amazing team act there. But it is such a notable

shift from the premiere from last week when the prologue highlighted that the Targaryans were at the apex of their power. In those days, House Targaryans stood at the height of its strength, With 10 adult dragons under its yoke, no power in the world could stand against it. From that to this, now granted, we've moved across more years than just the six months between episodes going back to the Great Council and the prologue. But even so, it is a genuine and sincere indictment that anybody could say House Targaryen is not a house to fear. House Targaryen is a house that you can move against and challenge. And this reminds me of a lot of the conversations in postseason four of Thrones about how vulnerable House Lannister became as soon as Taiwan dies. Taiwan dies.

That's where the fear and the rest – you know, they're still as rich as they were when Taiwan was a lot – but that's where the fear and the respect comes from. And Jiharis was not someone who instilled like fear, but great respect, you know, with the help of his queen, like massive respect in the kingdom. And he acted in a way that committed that respect. And in, like, nine years and six short months of his reign, Vesaris has lost a lot of that faith. And it takes me back to that Tyrion and various conversation, whereas, like, power resides where men believe it resides. And in the power, like, in the race of public opinion, Veseris is losing. You know, they still, they've got dragon riders as when your points out. But, like, if you don't have a strong leader, you know, carrying your banner out front,

then people think they can take over your stepstones. He's not polling well currently. No. And what does Otto say here to Corlis, Joe? He says, I caution you a seat at the king's table does not make you his equal, which is such a rich thing coming from one Mr. Otto High Tower. We got an email from Kevin. who says in the first

Oh, God. In the first two episodes of the series, I've noticed Otto Hightower has answered several questions that were posed directly to Vassaris in a way as if he is speaking directly for the crown. Even though the king is literally sitting right there. I cannot recall this occurring in such a way during Game of Thrones. So is this standard protocol for the hand to act in the king's presence

or is this further evidence of the reluctance of Vassaris to make decisions or get involved in conflict? A great email from Kevin. And I think it's, I mean, I think the liberties that a hand will take depends entirely on the king, right? Like, the rules aren't hard and fast. It depends on the relationship between the hand and the king. In terms of, like, what kind of prime minister are you? What kind of, like, Jafar-esque vizier are you?

Is this a puppet king or, like, what's going on here? And, you know, I think it's the latter point that Kevin makes in this email that it's just, like, it speaks to Baceres' weakness. And as we mentioned, Otto was Hannah the king for Jaharis. And so it speaks to his comfort with his level of power here. And something that I wanted to mention that we haven't before is the power dynamics of the makeup of the small council. Because we talked a little bit to Chris and Talk to Thrones about how the maesters and the grand maesters in general that the Citadel and the House High Tower have a longstanding allegiance to each other, longstanding relationship. So if we're going survivor rules, which you are way more familiar with than I am, Mallory, your eyes just lit up. Right. Yeah.

That's an alliance. But a key, other key factor that is that the House Beesbury are vassals of House Tye Tower. So Otto has the Maester and Beesbury. That's a majority alliance on the council. And you've got like Lionel Strong, Heron Hall, looming though it may be, how strong does not. have strong allies around it. And Carlos Valerian, as we've seen, is like bumping up like his frustration. So it's like, Otto has this council on lock in the power structure, which is, which is a really interesting place for Corlis to try to get anything to move forward through. You know, he's got he's got the majority in the House and the Senate, you know.

I love the survivor comp because it casts Corlis' conversation with Damon summoning him to drift mark at the end of the episode as like the moment in an episode of Survivor where somebody realizes they need to go find the immunity idol. They can't go to tribal council without it without finding an advantage. But then the cast members or the characters who actually go do that often pull the blind side. I love this. Let's talk about Survivor every week. Okay. Great stuff. That is a really great email from Kevin. And I think you're right, Joe, that a lot of it depends on the king, the ruler, but also a lot of it on the hand and the effectiveness because I think of something like Danny and Tyrion and their relationship and how that really degraded over time because

Tyrion started making mistakes. You can, you know, the hand could speak with the ruler's voice if they're doing a good job and only until that ceases to be true, you know? And then you have like the rulers like Joffrey who are just mocked and belittled widely in a hand like Tywin who was so strong, and entrenched, so few characters would have the gall to pull a Taiwan and send the king to bed without dinner. But he did, without hesitation. Without hesitation. What a time that was.

You've got Robert Baratheon who's like, The king is tired. I would prefer to never go to a small council meeting, right? So, like, you could imagine that John Aaron, before Ned, that, like, John Aaron was, like, making all the, all the calls. right. Absolutely. Yeah. While Robert.

Frolic and fraternized and forced Jamie to stand post at his door. As he insults my sister. Oh, Blackberry Jam! I miss Bobby B. Gotta say, it was great. Not a great king, but a great television character. In this small council scene, with all of those dynamics that you just explored, we have another player.

Renira, who is still serving as the cup bearer, and she interjects, as you hinted earlier, with a plan of her own. You have Dragon Rider's father, send us. Now, I want to circle back to the canon question of the number of Dragon Riders in a second, but in terms of just that sentiment,

this is a really amazing and consequential moment that establishes, again, and reinforces that key theme of this episode, the active Reneira in direct contrast to the passive Viseris. Like even using the word us instead of them shows not only that she is decisive and ready to make a call, ready to put a plan in motion, but that she intends to be there on the front line to have that skin in the game. And we hear Corliss say, at least the princess has a plan. I mean, this was just an incredible, incredible sequence. I think this is why, like, when you asked last week,

what does Vesaris be when he says we already have a Vesnia? I think this is why I was thinking about Reneira. But I think, ultimately, I think you were right that in that scene they are talking about Damon. But I think there are a couple moments in this episode where Reneera, where Vassaris has a, like, I love my daughter, but. Oh, she's mouthy. You know what I mean? Like, she's a little mouthy.

So. Or a girl. God. Why, Joe, is Vesaris so reluctant to use the dragons that signify the might of his house? This is one of the things that I've been thinking about the most since watching this episode. This is the thing I'm most excited to talk to you about, actually, because you said this thing on Talk the Thrones about Vassaris being at war with himself, which conflict of the heart I know. So, like, tell me what you think about this. Yeah, the Georgeism.

I'll tell you my theory. So I have a few different thoughts, and it's one of the things that I'm looking forward to continuing to gain insight about as we spend more time with Viseris, I think the amount of time, both across this episode and the premiere, that we've spent harping on and learning about old Valeria,

ballerian is a direct tie between Viserius and Agon the Conqueror between Viseras and the Freehold and old Valeria, this idea of the prophecy and the weight, the burden that that clearly is for Viseris as he's shouldering it. Like, I think he's clearly putting a lot of stock in Agon's dream, but also doesn't want to use dragons the way that Agon did because, and Agan and his sisters, Vesania and Reneas, like, this was one of the things in this sequence in particular where, and it's reinforced when Reneer comes back at the end and is like, I got the job done without bloodshed, without

violence. And I was thinking about a moment during the conquest, like, Vesernerner. Sessenia flying Vagar up to the Erie and just letting Ronald Aaron go go googly-eyed over the dragon, leading to Lady Aaron surrendering the veil. It doesn't always have to be an act of war, even if it is a show of force and show of strength. And it makes me think two of our other Vassaris, your favorite, from our little television program, Game of Thrones, a feeble moron. but still capable of the occasional pearl of wisdom while fucking in the tub,

including the still all-time line. The brave men didn't kill the dragons. The brave men rode them. And that's one of the things I'm interested in about Viseris, because I think he fears, given how much he harps on the doom and what went wrong. We'll talk in a few minutes about the conversation he and Allison share about whether Westeros could be another Valeria. And he seems to be like, not in the good ways, only in the bad ways, only in terms of the

doom that awaits, I think he is, he has begun to fear how the magic and the might and the violence and the strength can, can turn inward and against yourself, your house, your fellows, and tear you down instead of propelling you, how people can get lost in that pursuit of power. But I think because of that, even though there's wisdom there, he has lost his own weight too and become kind of paralyzed by the various dooms that he feels so. certain await and feels a real compulsion to avoid. I love that. That is so excellent.

I want to bring in another text that you and I love, which is Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials. Oh. Yeah. And in Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials, if you've never read it, there is this concept of the demon, which is not to be confused with the Damon, though it has the same letters in it. Yeah, same telling.

And in that book, in a world in that book, everyone has a sort of external physical manifestation of their inward soul and humanity that when they reach puberty affixes itself as an animal, right? And there are all these descriptions of like the horror that is someone who has been like separated from their demon, right? And so when I think about that scene in Dragonstone, which we'll get to in more detail, but when you think about Renera standing there with Syrax behind her and demons standing there with Caraxes behind them, and it's like these are these two dragon riders and their dragons, they're demons, their essential nature of Targaryenus. And what a kind of abomination it is that Vassaris does not have a dragon, that the head of House Targaryen right now does not have a dragon, which we talked about a little bit. And I think that, like, Balerian is such an interesting figure for, to feed into that fear that you were talking about. Because Belarion the Black Dread, as you mentioned, this was Aegon the Conqueror's Dragon, but also Magor the Cruel's Dragon. And the amount of atrocities that Magor inflicted upon Westeros with Balear in the Black Dread is, like, that's a really tricky dragon to inherit. And then there's also, between Magor and Vesaris, there was Princess Aurea who also took Balearion.

It didn't, like the thing with Dragon Riders is like sometimes the match doesn't quite go or whatever. And Balearion, according to Septim Barth, took off for old Valeria and brought back the princess dying and brought back. And it came back himself, like with a massive wound on his side and stuff like that. And so that when this is the state. that Vassaris got his dragon in. This dragon that's committed, like, conquered the realm, committed atrocities in the name of the cruelest king in Westeros, killed a princess essentially by like taking off with her.

And then is wounded himself. Vassaris gets on Balearion, plans to ride to dragonstone, but Balearion is so ill and injured at that point that he can barely make it once around King's Landing. goes back to the dragon pit, a year later. Vesarius only had his dragon for a year, a year later, Balarian dies, and the Viceris never tries again.

So it's just sort of like part of this legacy that Ves... Vesarius is like a kid who tried to ride a bike, fell off, and then like never wanted to get back on the bike. And then that, like, to take that back to that, his dark materials concept of just like, that makes him... Not every Targaryen rides. a dragon, but there is this ongoing conversation as long as dragons are still a thing in the world, that there's something wrong with you if you're a Targaryen and you're not a dragon rider.

And that that, and I think you nailed it, that the wrongness for Vassaris centers on that fear. I love that so much. The demon the demon cop, now I was saying demon. The demon cop is an incredible one and the severing of that, that aspect of himself after of a Balarian's death and what that would leave him searching for and feeling like he was lacking. I think that's incredible.

And I love the bike comp too because it's like he's a king without a bike and his family is known for winning the Tour de France. Like and like I don't want to I don't want to shame any Targaryen who's not a dragon rider. Like it's okay. You don't have to ride a dragon. If you want to be an artist, you can be if you want to build

model villages. But like maybe you shouldn't be the head. of your household, possibly. I don't know. I was curious, Joe, to ask you, and I'm a little bit reluctant even in asking this to go beat by beat here, because I think that the show and book timelines are just different. And so some of the things that we would know to be true at this point in the timeline in the book, just maybe await in the future in the show. And so without getting into any of that, I was curious who you thought Renera meant when she said us, because we know, obviously, that Reneira rides Syrax. We know that Damon rides Caraxes.

And we know Reneas is a dragon rider as well. Damon's been exiled. He's not in the mix here. So is she just speaking about herself and Reneas there? Are there other... We know that there are other dragons. Do you want to read the email that we got? Because we got a question about this, too, actually,

that we can take all of this at once. Yeah, an email from Andrew. Who says, I think... I think we are expecting 17 dragons. this season, is that correct? We've only met two in their writers. Who are the other dragons? And more importantly, who are the other writers?

Are there more Targaryians that we haven't met? Thank you for that email, Andrew. I think it's 17 dragons in the series. Yeah. Is it nine this season? Is that what Ryan Conno said? Sepachuk has said, yeah. They've said nine in season one.

We heard that House Targaryen had 10 in the prologue in the first episode, but we've heard that we're going to meet nine in this season. Now we know that other dragons. are present right now. Vagar has been mentioned, and we'll talk about this more later, in both of the episodes so far. We hear that the egg in question is Dreamfires.

We will also talk a little bit more about Dreamfire later today. I think we can deduce that other dragons who were written very recently in the show timeline like Jaharis's Vermethore or Alicane's Silver Wing are similarly around, but riderless at this point in the show timeline. And then beyond that, when we will start to learn about which other dragons exist already and are there, either in the pit or out in the wild,

and awaiting a driver, waiting to be claimed, or other dragons, because obviously the eggs have been a very present part of both episodes, too, who might soon be born. Anything else you feel is, like, definitively established at this point in the show?

No, and then, like, we might have book readers yelling at their devices right now, but trust us, like, we know what the book says here. It just feels like a different timeline. Yeah, we're just going to wait and see sort of like what's going on there. There are some wild dragons. I think we can say that that there are like some wild dragons out on Dragonstone that don't have writers at all.

So shout out your dude, the cannibal. The cannibal, exactly, my pal. But I think that, like, when we said King Jiharis was like lousy with Targaryen princes and princesses who were buying for the Furling. But really, the family tree has stripped down, a bunch of them died. And what really is like these players that we're talking about are the Targaryians here. Because we had another question about like, if there are other Targaryen cousins out there, why is House Valerian like the best, you know, the best option wouldn't like a pure,

quote unquote, pure blood Targaryen be a better option for Versaurs? They aren't out there. Like, we know all the Targaryans here they are on the chess board. So that's where we are. Can I talk a little bit about the dream again? I'm going to want to talk about it every week. Is this an okay time to talk about it? Okay.

So to your point about Vassaris's fear, which is so key, I think what that speaks to and is the fun we can track in how every king, Tarkyrian king, reacts to the prophecy, Agon's dream. We're not going to spend a moment here and go through like how that dream got handed down, that will take us all day, and this is already going to be a lengthy podcast, but I think it is very instructive to consider how, say, Magor the Cruel, who we've already talked about, like, maybe that cruelty, that's how that king reacts to something is like, I must get everything under my boot and everything ship-shape in time for this calamity that's coming, or later down the timeline, Baylor the Blessed, like, which is an extreme religious.

religious reaction, where I need to get closer to God. That's the way I'm going to be able to defend the realm. And for Vesaris to be fixated on Valeria, what happened the last time there was a world ending event and how do I avoid repeating that history, that that's sort of part of his reaction. But I've been having a lot of fun thinking about the dream and there's been like, I just want to shout out a couple of people. One person is someone who goes by the name Joe magician who runs the wiki of Ice and Fire. We met him at Con of Thrones. Great guy.

He has been on this beat for years. So he's got like a long, long bench, deep bench is what I meant, of how did the dream of act of the Targaryen Kings videos that you can go check out. There's this blog called Red Mice at Play that has a great article out this week called The Song Played and the Dragons danced, which is all about how the various Targaryen kings and queens reacted to the news of winter. And that's a really fun thing to track. It's like every time I went,

we already talked about Ragar last week, but every time a winter came, how did someone react? How did they freak out? How did they think this is it? It's coming right now. All that sort of stuff. And I think what's really interesting

about this concept of the, of this prophecy, we quibbled a little bit with this idea that like, Vesaris's interpretation is that a Targaryen must on the throne. What's key to remember is that the Iron Throne wasn't a thing when Agon had this dream, right? So it couldn't have been the dream is a Targaryen sits on the throne. It's a Targaryen must do something. And I think the idea is that Agon interprets this as conquer. I must conquer. I must conquer Westeros, and that's what I must do to bring everyone together. But if the better definition

is unite Westeros against this encroaching threat, then isn't that exactly what John and Dineris did? They didn't sit the Iron Throne, but like John brings the wildlings and the northern lords, and Dineris brings the Dothraki and the Unsullied, and they unite all these common cause

against the Knight King and the whites and all that sort of. So in a sense, that is a fulfillment of the prophecy. I have a couple more things. say if you'll forgive this lengthy monologue. I just want to shout out one Targaryen in particular, which is Queen Alessane, who I mentioned last week. And a lot of people thought I said Alicent, but I said Alicane. Queen Alessane, who was J. Harris's wife, has pretty much the old,

has pretty much the only reasonable reaction to the prophecy. Like, we can assume that Jheris told his wife who was his co-monarch, because she flew up to the wall. She, offered up her own jewels to help the wall build up some of its, like, castles along the wall. She goes and she charms and beguiles the stark lords to double the size of the gift, like, south of the wall. So she goes up there, and then she meets without the women of Molestown, and there's this really intriguing line in fire and blood where she says, like, the things she learned there would change the seven kingdoms forever. So, like, what did she learn from the women of Molestown when she went up to the wall? And then sort of most famously she sends this letter back to De Harris, where she says, Thrice I flew silver wing high above Castle Black, and thrice I tried to take the north beyond the wall.

But every time she veered back south again, refused to go. Never before has she refused to take me where I wish to go. I laughed about it when it came down again, so the Black Brothers would not realize anything was amiss. But it troubled me then, and it troubles me still. And I feel like this is her being like that dream, that prophecy, man, there's something up there. And I don't know, I don't know what it is. Remember when everyone thought that line was going to be super crucial for the conclusion of Game of Thrones? And it was not.

Definitely wasn't. But like the last thing I'll say, to sum this up, the last thing I'll say is that that famous line about the coin flip of the Targaryens, madness or greatness, I think that comes down to like, how do you react to this news that the world might be ending and you are, it's on. on you to figure out how to handle it. And does that spur you to madness or does it spur you to greatness? This is such a cool thing that George has, like, dropped into this lore that we've been obsessed with for years. So I think with Viseris, the result is this inaction paralysis fear that you mentioned. I think that's what we're watching here.

I love it. I'm excited to track not only episode to episode, but as we reread and revisit the text, the different things that stand out anew in light of the prophecy. It's like you said last week. It really does necessitate almost a complete reconsideration of the story, which is everything. Awesome. What a fun way to make it all feel fresh and new and not that we needed an excuse to revisit it. But hey, here, we have one. Great stuff. George. George, you did it again. Did it again, George. That was great, Joe. That was awesome. We exit, Joe, the small council, because Otto, maneuver to Seris, as he has wont to do,

into sending Renera to interview the Kingsguard applicants instead of being there to shout her ideas into the room. We head to, not only the courtyard and the balcony, but Hard Knocks training camp with the Kingsguard. Joe, I got you to watch five minutes of Hard Knocks, and so now I feel like I can make Hard Knocks references on the pod. Ten whole minutes, possibly. What would Dan Campbell's speech to the assembled would-be members of the King's Guard have been?

You think they would have gotten the same? You won't feel this good again until next March. There is no light at the end of the tunnel. Just a train. And a dragon. That doesn't feel to me to be like Harold Westerling's approach to team management here. No. Yeah. Yeah.

Not sure that we could expect to see Sir, Sir Harold walking around with a hat that says grit. But time we'll tell. We'll keep our eyes peeled. Who knows? Who knows? So on the King's Guard front, worth remembering always that on the one hand,

this is a huge honor. The best, especially at this point in the timeline, the best knights in the realm, though, as Reneera, is quick to note, none of these guys actually have combat experience except for Kristen. We are in the Knights of Summer era here, as Renice outlined at the Torne in episode one.

It's also, though, a costly honor to join the King's Guard, you know, akin to the vows that you swear at the Watch. Now, joining the Watch, you're doing it for less savory reasons than when you're joining the Kingsguard, but you're foregoing your lands, your titles, your ability to have children, to have heirs of your own, etc. And so it's always interesting, I think, especially in a context like this,

where we see these characters assembling to vie for this honor, to vie for this spot, what they're giving up in order to get it. Reneira, to interview the candidates, steps up on John Snow's little apple cart. I love this. You know, obviously it's there to emphasize her youth, but it really did make me think of John and all of the many John next to Sonsa, Winterfell parapet shots where he's standing on.

Good old kid Harrington. Multiple little step stool. One of the things that stood out, and I remember this was obviously a huge talking point in real time, but one of the things that stood out to be so much of my rewatch was just the absolute, out-of-nowair appearance and then shocking volume of John Snowah short jokes. Game of Thrones.

Astounding stuff. We have some fun sigil spotting. This was one of the sequences that we did some sigil spotting on in the trailer breakdown, and we get some of the houses actually named, Karen, we see the night song, Malister, the Eagle. Love to see the Tarley Striding Huntsman always. We get a crate call mention, see that boar, Rowan, the Golden Tree.

And as you noted, on Talk the Thrones, Joe, Sir Kristen stands out in such stark contrast because he has none of this. He doesn't have an attendant, a squire with him. He doesn't have this fancy garb. He is utterly distinct in what he lacks of these visual adornments. But then also, of course, what he possesses that they don't, as Renera, no, no notices and calls out real actual tangible combat experience. When she makes her choice here, right?

Where she's like, Harold Messing's like, he detained a poacher. And she's like, a poacher? Okay. Great stuff. But when she asks if anyone has had combat experience, she asked that before, she asked that not knowing that Kristen Cole is going to be the answer to that, right? So she's asking, and we see it a couple times for Renera, a smart question, right? Yes, absolutely.

Good question. And so did she pick Kristen Cole in part because his hair is so nice and his pout is so pouty? Very possibly. But it's not the only reason that she picks him here. And I like that as an update from the books because something that Connell and Sopachnik have said about the show, not just that this is like maybe this is going to be the real story versus the many different versions that we get in fire and blood. But also, specifically as it pertains to Allison and Rainira, there's, like, when you look at all the sources in fire and blood, they're all men, right? So this history is written by men.

So what is really going on in the minds of these young women and how has it been misrepresented and misshapen by fire and blood? So in Fire and Blood, the passages about Renira and Kristen Cole, so smitten was she by the charms of man she called My White Knight that Renira begged her father to name Sir Kristen her own personal shield and protect. her, his grace indulged her in this. So in the book, it's like the silly young girl who has her head turned by some hottie is like, please me. And then in this version, it's more, you know, it's more nuanced in that. He has some qualifications here. Yeah.

I don't have a plume on his helm, but he's fought off the incursions, the Dornish incursions, you know, so. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. The stormlands is Dornish incursion and clarity there helpful. the instincts are sound, and then we get this interesting dichotomy

of the smart questions of the sharp instincts with the like Grima-esque slithering of Otto who has gone from kicking Renera out of the small council meeting to creeping up behind her to try to manage her decision-making. Oh, thank them for their little service, do this, do that. he really recoils at what he labels a hasty pick. He's like an ent.

Don't be hasty, right? A room for room. And he's preaching considering strategic value to the crown, which some of these other houses like Malister and the strategic positioning of Seagard along the coast, as he cites, is one example, to the current rain. And that's reinforcing a. again, this central element of the episode of Alliance Building and how you're juggling, what is in your heart, what is in your head, and what does, like, wisdom encourage? And I think one of the

things that's interesting here, and in general with Otto, is it's not like everything that he's saying is wrong. That's not his character. He is actually counseling her. Though with Otto, you never know until you get to learn how much of what he's saying directly connects to some sort of personal agenda that he has. Maybe he wants the malisters in his debt for some specific reason. It is entirely possible, even if it is also true that the malisters remaining in good standing with House Targaryen would be a wise thing. No matter what, though, the thing you cannot dispute is that he is trying to control

Reneira, trying to bend her to his will because that is so central to the way that he interacts with her father. And I think that that contrast again between Renair and Vassaris in this context is really interesting because on the one hand, her haste, which is like more of a negative connotation, you could say her decisiveness,

her readiness and willingness to make a call. Yeah, that's a more positive reading. And thinking outside the box, like do we need another... Unroftfturning night. No, we want someone who's battles with it. Absolutely. And so that's a real point of contrast.

But they also do have a shared treat in this episode, which is not prioritizing. whatever key alliance and larger consideration for the crown as the number one variable in the decision. For Rainira here, and obviously for the way Vassaris navigates his pending nuptials later in the episode. And what I really loved about this scene,

and this will recur later in the episode with Vesaris and Lena's walk, is that we see, and our attention is drawn to, and we are made to note that Reynese is there, that she is watching from across the balcony, and Renera notices this too. And they will both be watching later during that walk. And I love this positioning of the women of the realm who would be made to be spectators

to whatever is unfolding in front of them. But for these characters, for Renice for Renera, a refusal to allow that to be so, an insistence on helping to shape the course of things. I love that. One of my favorite things that we learned in one of the, I think it was the episode one behind the scenes, is that the set that they built for the Red Keep is a massive, one massive practical set where all the rooms and all the stairways and all that, like it feels like a model village, like a little, like, which is unheard of for all the rooms to actually be sort of practically there. but they said one of the reasons that they did it that way was so that you could have all these balconies and parapets and corners. We saw Damon sort of spying in the small council last week's episode

for people to always be watching and stooping and listening and all that sort of stuff. And so I think I love that shot of Rainies in that scene. It was so good. There are also balconies, presumably, in the Lovilaria. And we go next to Viserys' chambers, where he is telling Alice. about Valerian history over his stone mason forged Lego model. This heavy freehold emphasis continues.

He's talking about the volcanoes on both Valeria and Dragonstone, as you noted earlier, the blood mages in their craft. And she asks if Westeros can become another Valeria. And he says, that depends whether you speak at the freehold at its height or at its fall. Over a thousand dragons. A navy large enough to span the seas of the world, the glory of old Valeria will never be seen again. And in my mind, I'm like, until we get that television show in four years on HBO.

But that's the story for another day. And this connects to what we've already discussed, right? This sense that he has that the parallel won't come at its height, but at its fall, that this is the thing that he fears. There's this cautionary note as he's speaking. And there's this, I thought, like a real somber tone, almost like mixed. with this morning, and it made me think, of course, of the line from episode one in his conversation in front of Belairean's skull with Reneira, the idea that we can control dragons as an illusion.

There are power mentioned never have trifled with one that brought Valeria's doom. If we don't mind our own histories, it will do the same to us. And so this connects to a lot of what we were chatting about earlier. I think we've probably hit on most of this, but just reconciling his dragon warnings and his reluctance to use them with the seeming reverence that he does have for the freehold at it's unmatchable heights and knowing their power and their might, but also then because of that, knowing what horror that can unleash, what doom that can spawn. This is just going to be a really fascinating thing to continue to track over the episodes. And then we really get the reinforcement of it

with the symbolism of the broken dragon when he drops the stone dragon. This is the risk. This is his worry. We'll talk later in the episode about how vulnerable their line is. could he be this broken dragon? He speaks with Lena about even a dragon can be lonely. There's this sense of the crumbling nature or the threat of the crumbling nature of his own life, his own line, his own reign. And then also this idea is reinforced

throughout the episode by characters like Corlis, characters like Renice, who are saying to him, in essence, don't let this be the way other people see you. Then he's like, should we talk about my daughter? Real cool. Real, real cool. What he says, like the creepiest thing he says here, right, is don't tell Rainira. It's very tough.

How you know that he knows that he's doing something wrong, right? Absolutely. Yeah. But what he also says, you know, as she's sort of saying, what if you went to her, I think she would be open herself to you if you invited, like all this sort of stuff. And he says, there are times when I'd rather face the Black Dread himself than my own daughter of 15. Okay. Shut on Ned Stark. Word was easier than daughters.

war was easier than daughter's line. But also, I would rather face the black dread himself. That's his own dragon that he's talking about. And that goes back to that fear thing. Because the way that other dragon writers talk about their dragons, it's a cherished creature. De Nairus's children, right? Like her three sons, like the extension of them.

And he's like, let me think of the worst thing in the whole world. Oh, my own dragon. I would rather face that than. my teenager. It's fascinating. I love it too because the Valerian comp then does speak to this fierceness, the ballarian com, to the fierceness that he recognizes in Renera, which is ultimately, like, to her immense credit.

I'm curious to ask you about Alicent in this sequence. And obviously, we have a lot of other key Allison scenes coming in this episode. But she is, you know, in a couple of the lines you already mentioned that, what if you went to her? I think she would open herself to you if invited in those ideas. is she is guiding him. Much as she will later guide Rainira in the Sept sequence that is shortly to come. And when he says, let's keep this talk a secret, you know, six months in, you're not telling Renira about this, right? There's this idea that, you know, in addition to the passivity that is really

defining him in this episode and at this point in his life, this secret keeping is very present for him. This, Agon's dream, which he is guarding closely, the truth of Emma's death, which is leaving him riddled with guilt, even his wounds, you know, the, how few people know about the, from episode one, the back, the finger, here, all of these secrets that are piling up and weighing him down. And the Alicent side of that then, like her face as she is hearing him see these things. There's so much that you could interpret into what is on her mind there. And I was curious in just this scene what you're reading on her face and in her words. So it's interesting because we're going to talk about this concept of love and duty as it, like, you could consider

that to be the binary choice for Vassarison's episode, right? Duty to the realm and the best thing for the realm is to marry these two houses, Valerian and Targary. But love, I am in love with a teenager. Gross. Cool. Okay. Love and duty. That's the binary for Vassaris, right? I think it's love and duty for Allison as well, but I think the love side is for Renira. And whether or not you believe it's romantic love, I believe that she genuinely loves Reneura, and the duty is to her father. And the duty is to, and it's not for love of her father, but it's for the thing that Reynis brings up later, the order of things.

I know the order of things. And so for Allison, who was raised to be a much more dutiful, you know, thinking of Queen Emma saying, this is our role. Like, you know, our wombs are our role. Like, that that is what she understands her duty to be. What does her father tell her to do? What advantageous marriage can she make? how can she serve the realm by like popping out babies?

That's how Allison has been conditioned to think of the world. What will the stuff to think if we tear a page out of this book? Like all this sort of stuff. And Rainer is like, what if we get on my dragon and go eat cake, right? And so she loves Renira. Absolutely, I believe she does. But she doesn't quite understand navigating the world that way. So like she's chewing and tearing her fingers to bits and pieces because she's being.

being pushed into this thing. She's playing her role very well, and I think she likes Vassaris, you know, like the way that, like, if you maybe don't have a great parent at home, you really like, you know, you're like, oh, your dad's nice. He just builds Lego models. My dad makes me get in my dead mom's dress and, like, go seduce kings. But your dad seems pretty nice and cool. Yeah. So I think she likes Viseras well enough. But I think it's that love and duty thing.

And so the way she's expressing her love for Reneer in this is to try to mend the fence between Renier. and her dad, like, try to sort of backroom deal to mend the fences there. What do you think? That's, that's a really interesting point. It builds. Let's go into the next scene because it's directly related to it because it is the Allison Renera scene at the Sept. First of all, just the sound of the candles, the flickering flames in this sequence, just incredible. And I think that this is a really interesting sequence for attempting to parse the various and often maybe competing impulses that Alicent is experiencing, because I agree with you that that affection,

that love, that fondness for Rainira is very palpable and very sincere. And then I also think that we have to acknowledge that some of the choices that she makes are in direct opposition to the happiness of that person that she feels that way about. So like you have the beginning of this scene, Renira venting about the secret counsels take place when she's out of the room, all the people who are readying to marry off her father, replace her as heir. She is completely unencumbered and unfiltered. This is the unvarnished,

honest truth of her heart that she is sharing with her dear friend. And mixed in with that candor is once again the savviness that we are seeing on display from Rainira, like when Alison mentions, he chose he was air. He loves you. What does Renair say? He didn't choose me. He spurned Damon. And that reinforces that she's a character who sees other characters clearly, though, of course, she is very blindsided by the Petrothal at the end of the episode. But she sees that her father is a king who is reactive, not proactive. And they have this great little moment where they're commiserating over their girl dead. She's saying, you know, she wants him to... My own father. To see her as more than his little girl and Alice, Alice.

says that, yes, my own father does not know the language of girls either, but then what does she say after that? When I wish to talk with him, I know that I must make the effort. And much like what she said to Viseras in the prior scene, there's this guiding hand there directing Reneira toward a conversation, a forthright conversation with Viseris about the fact that he needs to wed, that the marriage is inevitable, that this needs to be a part of their future and their family's future. Now, I think that it, as is often the case, many things can be true at once, and she is showing a real affection and tenderness,

sharing her own grief about losing her own mother, helping Renera work through her trauma, the sequence about this is only between the gods and you, might you open up your heart in prayer, touching her arm, holding her hands. Like, this was all really moving and lovely. And so I don't want to diminish it at all because I think it's a very real thing.

But she's not repaying Renera's confidence. That's also true. Like in response to everything, Nera says, she's like, well, what if your father were to remarry, not, hey, let me tell you what my father has been sending me to do and what your father has asked me not to share with you. Now, on the one hand, that's not necessarily like a fair thing to say because to go against her father and the king would be like a really seismic thing to do. But I think we were within our rights to say, would Reneira do that for her? I think we can say we wish, watching two people who genuinely care about each other not communicate well with each other.

Maybe this, it's tough. Think about what would these girls, what would their lies be without these shitty men, like, interfering and pushing and guiding them one way or another? You know what I mean? It's like, I think an ongoing question for this. And again, to the earlier point, who wrote Fire and Blood? And what's the real story of Alison Renier? We've talked about how this childhood friendship, this close, this childhood friendship, this

closeness is a show invention that this is not something that exists in the book. But who's to say that the septens and the maisters and whatever just didn't care or pay attention to the fact that this is the foundational truth of these two women? And I think also to that point about Allison and her rule followingness, setting it in the sept here, I think is so interesting because a couple things about the sept we should say, like there isn't a major sept in Kings Landing right now. Magor burned the last one in his ongoing fight with the faith militant and replaced it with the dragon pit.

He's like, why have a church when we can have a sports arena, right? And then Baylor is the one who builds the great step to Baylor later. So right now there isn't like a major sept, at least as far as George R. Martin has written down in Kings Landing. But Allison's piety, her like relationship. with the church, another set of rules that she knows how to follow. The fact that they're kneeling in front of the statue of the mother, like there's the seven statues in the sept, but they're in front of the statue of the mother.

Allison's thinking about her mother, Allison talking to Roenara about her mother, but Allison also being like, this is my role going forward is like, I'm supposed to be a mother. That's the role of women in this world. I think all of that really feeds into that. the things that bind Allison from being honest and close with her friend, you know? Yeah, absolutely. And there is also truth and goodness at the heart of her advice. Like, it's not Allison's fault that Rennira can't get full candor from her father when

they do start to build these bridges, do start to repair their relationships. They are actually finding the ability to communicate more freely with each other after they make their way back to each other. So it's a lot of these things aren't mutually exclusive. And that's part of what makes it interesting to watch. And I think to your unreliable narrator point, like, Allison is one of the characters who has been, it's been most interesting and engaging and rewarding to learn more about what was happening in her life because it is just so absent from the text. And so we are only now at the very beginning of that insight. And I think it will also be true that characters change greatly over time and the things that motivate them

change over time and that more than one thing can be true at once. Just as there's more than one marriage plot afoot at once. I was hoping you were to say more than one wig whipping in the wind. That too. I mean, the garden sequence was an absolute feast for Joanna Robinson's wigwatch TM. The Valerians are making their proposal. Corlis and Renis meet with Viseris out in the ground. And he reiterates, as king, it is my obligation to avoid war until such time it is unavoidable.

Is feeling clearly this burden, too, of inheriting a peacetime kingdom? That seems very, very present. And that need or desire to remain nimble should winter, should the Great War arrive, I can't be focused on the wars of men. I have this prophetic doom to ready for. I felt really in this scene and throughout the episode, George is one of his central, like a central thesis in his work, something he's talked about a lot over the years,

one of the ways that he talks about responding to Tolkien or building off Tolkien, because again, he revered Tolkien. This idea that a good man is not necessarily a good king. And there's a lot of, there are a lot of moments of like real tenderness with Viseras in this episode. and of course, to be clear, like we saw what happened at the end of episode one.

This is a character who has made terrible choices and done terrible things that are truly, that are deplorable. He has, I have kept thinking of like Jora telling Danny you have a gentle heart.

Like he has, his gentle heart is very present, including in this scene where he is so bold over by the idea of marriage. It is just, as he voices, not something that he has allowed himself to think about because he is in his stage of mourning. He is so consumed by his guilt. And this mixing and twining emotion across

the scene was really, really compelling. Like even when this is the sequence I mentioned earlier where Corlis runs through once again the laundry list of failures that Viseras is currently responsible for not dealing with. And Viseras says, you paint such an inspiring portrait of my reign. He refers to her. and this exchange is his favorite cousin. And it was so, so tangible that you were not just feeling warmth in moments like that. There's this weight of the history that we hear come up later, from Melos, from Strong, et cetera, the looming resentment of the great counsel and everything that stemmed from that. And so you have the insights that Corliss and Renice are providing.

I think real insights and real wisdom about the danger of the realm and the reign and his rule ever being perceived as vulnerable. Because we have all of these, we won't run through them all at length here, but you can just do quick snapshots across Targaryen history leading up to Viseras's reign of the necessity of the decisive nature of Agonne and Vesnia and Raineese's rule or a king like anus and how timid and unsure. he was and how vulnerable that made him. Then you have the severe overcorrection, as you've noted, to Magor, and Jeharis, as this really deft negotiator earning the moniker, the conciliator. Where is Viseris even aiming to be on that spectrum? And how are the people closest to him seeking to guide him when he is so guided by his own trepidation and fear.

And this all built to, you mentioned on Talk to Thrones that this, I thought, was the line of the episode. To elude a storm, you can either sail into it or around it, but you must never await its coming. Incredible line reading from Steve Toussaint, incredible idea, and one of the most damning indictments of the Saras in the show so far, because his reign is defined by exactly that, by awaiting the storm. Fast forward to the end of the episode, he doesn't have the courage or the wisdom to tell Corliss or to tell Rainera exactly what he's doing.

To steer into the storm as unpleasant as it would be, he is now instead waiting for the storm that will come. Same as what he did with Emma, right? He doesn't have the courage to have the conversation. I just want to, amazing, wonderful points all. I just want to push back on one thing. I just had a different read in my notes. When Vassara says he hasn't given marriage much thought, I wrote lies in all caps in parentheses. Because, like, I genuinely believe he loved Emma, and there are a number of moments of tenderness.

His grief for Emma, his genuine love for Renera, like all of that is true. I agree with all of that. It's three days this episode, three days. And I do not believe that he goes from this to I'm mercing at Allison Hightower, and it has never occurred to him that like maybe this babe who comes to my chambers three times a day

could be my new queen. You know what I mean? I think he's thought about it. It's fair. It's fair. I think it's maybe more accurate to say he's not ready to really confront

what thinking about it means or what decision he will have to soon make. And that's why Corlis and Reneas are there. You know, to quote our guy Davos, the proposal is what they're proposing. They want Viseras to wed Lena, their daughter,

uniting the two voluminous Hilarian houses strengthening the realm and House Targaryens reign. Of course, from their perspective, giving House Valerian that direct connection to the Iron throne. And when Renice says you could not ask for a stronger match in Lena, it felt like, okay, this is not just an opportunity for you. This is an imperative. And there's a really like, again, we don't have time to go like beat by beat through the

entire history, but it is just worth noting for content. that House Targaryen and House Valerian, in addition to their Valerian, old Valeria roots, and that shared history, they have a long history of being aligned and working together. The Lord of the Tides with a seat on the council for the Targaryen-Ruller of the moment, you can look at Valena, Valerian, who married Arian, and those are the parents. Agon the Conqueror, Vasseneo, Reneas. But Valerian was their mother?

That's what all of the stems from that connection. That's how far back this Key Alliance dates. And then, more recently, Anus, he was married to Alyssa Valerian. So Jahris and Alicane, their mother is also Valerian. Obviously, we have Corliss and Renice here, et cetera. So this is a key, key, key, and longstanding relationship. And Tide House, obviously a very fraught current state of affairs, given the great counsel resentment and the lingering nature of it.

and to be the ruler who risks, not only destabilizing that, but losing that, is yet another indictment of Vassaris's current reign. I want to say, so we got this, an email from Laura.

Hi, I love the original Game of Throat series, but I've not read the books. Can you please explain what is the deal with the incest debate and the timehouse of the dragon covers? Do the Targaryans argue that incest is generally bad, except for when they do it

because they have special DNA, Does the religion of the realm prohibit incest outright for everyone? If you're a Targaryen, is your ideal match someone who is 50% plus Targaryen? Great question, Laura. The Targaryans made a deal with the church, essentially. There is a doctrine that says Targaryians. Targaryans can marry each other, but no one else can. And there's a, you know, a surface reading of,

that is this idea of Targaryen exceptionalism, this idea of Targaryian supremacy. We don't want to thin our bloodline. We want to keep, you know, the goods of the family, that sort of stuff. I'll add like one small wrinkle of understanding to this incest approach, which is if you thin the bloodline too much, the Targaryians are worried that they will lose their dragon riding ability, right? It's the Targaryen blood that allows them the ability to ride dragon. So it's not just like, I definitely want all my children to have this hot platinum blonde hair and these purple eyes. It's like if we intermarry with other houses, what will become of our dragon riding ability. And we need our dragons because I guess Aegon had a dream that the winter is coming.

And so, Alicent is not a great choice if we're going to try to keep that bloodline pure and strong. but tiny little minuscule Lena Valerian is her mom's a Targaryen, like, it's a whole thing. And Emma, even though we mentioned this before, but just to reiterate in this context, even though her last name was Erin, she was related to Jaheras, a fellow, excuse me, to Viseris, a fellow grandchild of Jeharis. So part of the, part of the Targ bloodline there. I love the, like, there's that very long history of the faith and the pious in the realm, labeling the Targaryens as abominations because of their incest and really actively

rebellion against it. Obviously, Magor had a bloody war with the faith. But in more recent Targaryen history, more directly connected to the characters in this show, because Jeharis has come up a lot today, I think it's worth noting that he's the one who crafted that doctrine who made that deal with the faith that you're citing because he buried his own sister against his mother's wishes. Queen Alyssa was terrified of how the realm would react to Jaharis and Alassane, her children, siblings, choosing to wed against the advice of their counselors. And then all goes back to the scene in the sept where, like, Allison basically has to teach her nearer how to pray because the Targaryans are not a religious

family. They, like, Aegon adopts the faith of the seven in order to, like, placate the realm, right? But the Targaryans believe they are the gods. Exactly. And so Wernier's like, how does one pray? That's because like she was brought up to worship dragons, not the seven. And so, yeah, exactly. Speaking of Reneira, she is dining in the next scene with Pops. And the guilt that is permeating his interaction with his daughter is so forceful. They have basically not discussed Emma for six months, which is a very painful thing. And the way that he says, I loved your mother very much. Like, he is barely able to choke out these lines because he is so deeply on the verge of tears and so

consumed by his emotion, seems completely content to be hands off with the King's Guard. And I think that's interesting because on the one hand, it's nice to give Renera this responsibility. It's important that he hand things off. But also, he's doing that in such a limited fashion and capacity overall, that it's almost more notable and stark that he just doesn't seem to care which knights are defending them. And the way that he dismisses, because she tries to broach what happened, the Dragon Rider send us line at the small council, he has no interest. No interest because he is so averse to conflict. You know, he says later in the episode that he doesn't wish for them to become estranged. But here he just says when she is seeking to open up this discourse,

you're young. You will learn. And the thing that's so interesting about that you will learn idea is how is she going to learn if he's never actively teaching her? She has to seek that learning on her own because for him, it's just about biding time. It's one more example of not being willing to steer into the storm, even here in the privacy of his chambers with his daughter. I want to zoom back quickly to her telling him how she picked Kristen Cole, right? She says, but in questioning them, I discovered that Sir Kristen was the only man among them with true battle experience. She's so proud of herself for figuring that out. He'll be great.

No, and he's just kind of like, he approves it. Like, he's like, good job then. And like, she is so thirsty for his approval and for him to consider her like a worthy leader. And that's what puts her in the same bucket as Damon. Like, Damon is similar. Like, what Damon is after in this episode is Viceris' attention and his approval, you know. But I think that what's interesting to your point that Viseras is not teaching her what to do, the only person who gives her any, like, real good, here's how to conduct yourself advice in this episode.

It's fucking auto high tower. who's like, thank him for his legal service. You know, it's just sort of like, it sucks that that's like the worst person in the world says, you know, is right about something. Like the only person giving her the instruction she needs to rule the realm is this one guy who is like sort of condescending to her and micromanaging her at the same time. Yeah, he has sort of like receded into all of these different aspects of his own life. And then when you hear him say something later to, to Lian Strong, like, who is he to challenge me?

And it's like, well, you invite yourself, you open yourself to challenge after challenge when you vacate all of these key decision-making moments. He has not, however, vacated the maggot bowl. And it is time to discuss medical care in Westeros. The rotting finger sliced six months ago, decaying before our very eyes. Very grim, very grim, Joe. Melos, he's just looking for solutions, solution-oriented guy. This is our best chance to save the digit, y'all grace. the maggots will remove the dead flesh

and hopefully stop the advance of the rot. Damn me! Horrifying. We got a lot of notes from people. A lot of people out there touting the virtues of maggots and medical care. Good to know. Yeah. So that's good, nice. Otto once again looks very concerned

about the state of the king's health. Notably, Viceris seems totally unbothered and untroubled. He was hand-waving the back wound that wouldn't heal in episode one. He's using this, not as a, occasion to discuss his health and the actual situation of his rotting finger, but to talk to them about Corliss's proposal. Joanna, if you had a rotting finger, would you be a bit more concerned? I don't know. How big is the bowl of maggots? Like, how many maggots do we have on the, on, like,

constantly, hundreds. Willing to chombo my necrotic flesh? Like, if, you know, if there are enough maggots, I think they'll be okay. Here's my question to you, Mallory. How many bowls of maggots do you like to have around you when you like to discuss your your future romantic endeavors? Like, one, two? Is this a three maggot problem? Like, what are we talking about here?

Oh, my God. Well, if it's his serious defense, I'm not sure romance is really, uh, really on his mind. You know, I did a hotest take this week about elective dentures and just forgoing dental care of any. I'm not sure I'm... Generally the most appalling. It's the worst thing I've ever heard ever in my life. life is you talking about this.

I think I have to recuse myself. I'm not sure I'm allowed to comment on self-care or medical care. If you care about Mallory Rubin, I urge you to listen to the hottest take this week and and then write her a letter. Send her some floss. Viseras shares this marriage proposal with Otto with Melos. There's a very funny, like, Tywin-esque, you were being counseled right now vibe when Viseras is pushing back to Otto.

like, he needs to take this to the council. That's what we'll do. Take it to the council. Right now. Melos really sees the wisdom of the match. The wounds made by the great council still linger. My King, a match with their daughter will go a long way towards sealing. The breach, he won't be the last one.

This is a sentiment that Strong will reiterate later. Even Otto and Allison and Renera have to note the sound logistical nature of this match. But of course, for Otto, the proposal is a direct threat to his long-com, but he can't admit it. So he has to concede that Melis has a point. And then in utterly sinister fashion, use his own dead wife and grief to feign compassion so that he can lead Viseris back on the path to Otto Hightower's chosen outcome. This was sinister. I wish he had said, you know, my dead wife.

You might have seen my teenage daughter parading around it in her dresses recently. I had a wife once. She died, but we kept her dresses. Don't they look good on my teenage daughter? Yeah. You are the king, but I do not envy you to be compelled to marry for duty's sake. Yeah. Real creep.

Creep stuff. Boy. Speaking of creepy. Yeah. It's time for Vassaris and Lena up to take their trolls. their stroll through the grounds. So legitimately looked like a teacher escorting a student on a walk

at recess. She's so tiny. Amazing acting from Patty here, just projecting and emanating this supreme discomfort and mortification, the way that he closes his eyes, the intake and outtake of breath.

It's like wincing constantly. And who can blame him? Before the exchange about why they would be a good match and Lena parroting everything that her father and mother

have told her to say we get this great little dragon chat she asks about ballerian the Sarah once again brings up Valeria with Belerian

died the last memory of Valeria of old this idea of the dragon king without his dragon there it is again she asks about about Vagar. Vigar.

Too large for the dragon pit. Too large for our world. Song. Heard in Spice Town. Vagar mentions, in both episodes, so are. And then this is where we get

that really sad line where Viseras, who is just projecting powerfully here, says, I imagine even dragons get lonely. I would like to issue formal apology

to one Reneer a Targaryen because last week I said that she had horse girl energy. But that was before I met Lena Valerian, who was like ultimate horse girl energy. She is like doodling dragons in her trapper keeper, dreaming of them all day long. I love this line. So later, when Lena finds out that Allison is being betrothed to the king and not her in the book, there's this line, only Lady Lena herself seemed untroubled. Her ladyship shows far more interest in flying than in boys.

So yeah. Boys. She's a, yeah. because she's 12. So what did your mother tell you that I wouldn't have to bed you until I turn 14? Let's talk about her mom. Game of Thrones. Yeah, let's because Reneera and Reneas are both watching this from the balcony, as mentioned previously.

And Reneera just was walking by, taking her leave, and Reneas, who is sitting in front of one of these dragon, Targaryen orgy tapestries that we're so taken by. If you haven't paused on the tapestries, do yourself a solid and just break that down. There's one even in the small council chamber. We need to talk about it. Okay. They're everywhere.

So they share this fraught but fascinating exchange about the patriarchy, about the order of things. And Rainier thinks that Renée is trying to rile her up, but Renice insists that she is trying to prepare her, trying to prepare her for the inevitability of being cast aside. And Reniro rips off her. This is a line we heard a lot in the trailers and the run-up to the show.

When I am queen, I will create a new order. This is the her, Danny, break the wheel kind of line and kind of idea and kind of moment. I mean, let's be clear, DeNaris ripped off Reneira. That's right. That's right. And Renisa speaking from firsthand experience, as we outlined last week at length, she has been passed over and slated more than once. But Reneira is really reluctant to heed her counsel.

Steve, play us the clip. They denied you, Princess Rames. The queen who never was. But they bent the knee to me and called me heir to the throne. Do you remind your father's men of that as you carry their cut? Here is the hard truth which no one else has the heart to tell you. men would sooner put the round to the torch and see a woman ascend the iron throne

and your father is no fool Joe, what did you make of this? Okay, a couple things. First of all, sick burns. Similar, yeah, tough, tough, tough stuff. Like, thinking back to you, Alison, to Renier and the Sept and how you're just like, talk to each, just these women would just, if I could talk,

actually talk to each other, then all this like shit that the patriarchy manages to manipulate would be far less powerful. And so Rhenyce is like understandably bitter about being passed over, understandably frustrated to have this teenager be like, well, they bet the need of me. So like they rejected you. And Reneira is like, why is this boomer not on my side? Like, why is this? Huge okay boomer energy on this. exchange is amazing. And like, I love her line where she's like, you're her mother. Doesn't it bother

you? Like, you're, like, Reneira has her own insecure about her positions reason to be ticked off about her father courting a 12-year-old, but also, I think from a feminist point of view, whatever shape feminism takes in Westeros in the day, she's like, that's some creepy shit out in the garden, that 12-year-old. Rainis, you're her mom. Is this not gross and creepy? be? What do you think? You know, so I saw a lot of people be like, why can't these women just support each other? And I think the reason the answer is, like, so often the nature of the patriarchy is to, like, separate and pit women against each other.

And so, like, we just, yeah, we have these resentments and these women are unable to be like, hey, guess what? Let's both make room at the table of power for each other. It's like, you or me, right? And so Reneera is, like, saying, they chose me. And Reney's like, bitch. let's see. Let's start the clock and see how long that lasts, you know? Absolutely. That's part of what makes it really tragic, that these two characters who should be natural allies are reminding us so forcefully that just trust is so hard to come by and then even harder to maintain in Westrose and the way that Renisa's rejections have shaped her worldview?

Like that last line, your father is no fool, felt like such a personal warning. You know, don't believe that even your father, who we hear later in the episodes, reiterate to Reneer up, I intend to maintain you as heir. The seeds of doubt are everywhere all the time for everyone. And the doubt is as much of a risk as the people who are. spreading the seeds. That's what makes it so powerful. And I am really looking forward to more scenes between these two characters, really, really, really looking forward because it's just such a fascinating dynamic. Let's just take one brief second to compare the creepiness of

Corliss and Rainey's characters we really like, General, right, to Otto High Tower, who they are both pimping out their daughters to better secure their own position. That is just the nature of things in Westeros for sure. It is margin, margin, moregely, slim margin creepier. When it's a 12-year-old over a 15-year-old, that margin is just razor-thin for me, right? Both bad.

But it is a different proposition for the Valerians to be like, make our daughter your queen versus why don't you go see the king in his chambers after bedtime and wear your dead mom's dress? Like just, you know. Oh, yeah. They are acknowledging a core fact of life in Westeros,

which is cementing allegiance and alliance through marriage. Otto is working in the shadows. Terrible. Terrible. We have been a very fascinating exchange between Vissaris and Allison, actually. There are a couple who will the camera pan to scenes in this episode, this one here, and then, of course, later Corliss and Damon at Driftmark,

where it's like, like meant to be kind of a reveal. I was not... That Damon reveal is so funny. Yeah. I'm certainly not surprised to see Damon in that chair there. I was actually interested

to see that this was Allison here because just right, right initially, when we hear what Vassaris was talking about, I thought this was going to be Reneira. And when you realize it's Allison and you see how much he is sharing with her, how vulnerable and open he has become with her,

even just like answering her question when she's like, who? Who was it? And he tells her. And there's something shocking about that that reinforces the way that he feels about her and the way that their relationship has evolved for him. And you note like a moment when there's a knock at the door and he collects himself. He has to comport himself. He has to sit up straight in his chair. He has to fix his tonic, right? Like he has allowed himself to relax into a state that others cannot see him in in front of Alice. which is just so telling and so notable. And this is where she presents him

with not only more of the encouragement and kindness that he has come to value so deeply when she is responding to the idea of a match, the idea of a good and kind queen, but when she gives him the repaired dragon. And he's just utterly overcome by this. This is a very kind gesture, Allison, very kind.

He seems to be latching on like a life friend. to the idea that comfort and condolence and compassion can be present in any form when he's surrounded by people all the time who are saying, this is what I need you to do. This is the decision I need you to make. This is how I need you to help me. And on the one hand, there's something tender about the way that her, like, gentle nature has softened him, but also something really, because we see the whole picture,

really, again, kind of tragic about this because he doesn't know that he's being worked by Otto here. And I was curious what your read specifically on auto entering the room was because Vassaris wasn't like, oh shit, you're seeing me here with your daughter, Allison. He seemed untroubled that Otto would be discovering them in that way, which indicated to me that he knows that Otto knows that they are spending time together, but maybe not the true nature of it. Yeah, the extent of frequency, something like that.

I love that like, again, Allison, I have a lot of sympathy for her. I feel like she's being really pressured. Oh, yeah. To do various things. She's being deployed by a pawn. That being said when she's like, oh, your realm would really benefit from a good and kind queen.

Speaking of good and kind, I have a present for you. And he's like, wow, this is good and kind of you. How interesting. Marri Rubin, quick question. When I come courting for your hand, And if I bring you a Lego mini fig in a box, like, will you consider making me your queen? I'm yours and your mind. I'm ready to say the words right now.

Let's begin our life together. It's like, see, you would be able to court me in that way because you know me. And that also stood out here the way he says that he doesn't know Lena, but he does feel like he's gotten. to know Allison and like she has gotten to know him and that the idea of someone knowing you even in a way that small, like that that would be a meaningful thing to him is so telling. I think also to go back to poor Lilena who's just like reciting the words, eventually reciting the words that her parents of kosher to recite. Before that, when she's genuinely curious about Vagar and why I talk about dragons, I can think of like no worse thing for the king

who's scared of dragons for this girl to be like, what about Vagar? Let's start. talk about, do you want a nerd about dragons with me? Like, and he's like, he's like, he's like, no, this isn't my hobby. Dragons aren't my hobby. Models are my hobby. And Allison's like, I bought you, I got you a stone dragon. Those feel safe, right? Here's a little stone dragon for you. Like, enjoy that thing. You can keep it in a box. You can keep it in your room. You can, you can handle this, right? It's such a great point. Like, is there, is there a starker contrast than something as fixed and stationary and stable, even though it did break as stone? compared to the fluidity and flight

and unpredictability and wrath of a dragon and dragon flame. It's a really, it's a great point. I love that. Speaking of dragons, the reason that Otto has entered the chambers is because there is an emergency session of the small council of foot.

Boy, our guy. Prince Damon Targaryen has entered the chat. They don't call him the rogue prince for nothing. He has stolen an egg. He has left a wedding. invitation, simply iconic. He has done this, Joe, during the hour of the bat. Morbius tie-in, perhaps. Oh, my God, I can't wait for Damon to dance. The dance of the demons were like, wow. Unbelievable. And once more, it is time to act. And once more, Vseris will not. The realm is

watching your grace, Corlis says to him, to which Viseras replies, what would you have me do? Send him to the wall. Shout out the wall. Perhaps I could put his head on a spike. Now, he is not wrong. The Damon's agenda is to provoke him, to provoke him into action. He is actually reading his brother's intention correctly. But everybody else at that table says that this is an act of sedition that necessitates a response. We get an absolutely legendary, gods be good, from Margui Beesbury in response to the two-day wedding timeline reveal, just incredible stuff from Beesbury now and always. And it is only when... Do we have it?

God's a big good. Put that on the soundboard. Amazing. It is only when Ramira asks, in Valerian, asks the dragonkeeper which egg it was, and we learned that it was Dreamfires, the same egg that Renira had chosen for Prince Baylon's cradle

that Theris decides he simply must confronting it. Quick point of order, because I think you're going to give us a little like a Dreamfire history lesson. Love that for, us. I've seen some people think that the egg contained Dreamfire, Dreamfire's egg, meaning the egg of Dreamfire. But Dreamfire, we don't name dragons till they're born. Dreamfire exists. So who is Dreamfire Mallory Rubin?

Dreamfire is Raina's dragon. Now... And who's Raina? Again, these are a lot of really similar sounding names. Yes, in addition to Ray Dira and Rainey's, we now have a Raina. on the board. So Raina Targaryen was Anus and Alyssa's oldest child. And I think it is, much like we discussed last week with Nymeria, not an accident to choose this particular dragon to mention here, this particular parallel to draw between Rainira and another character from Westerosi history. Very quickly, Raina married her brother. Stub.

for Egon the Uncrowned. Tough one for that particular Agon. And she had a really sad life full of a lot of monumental moments that we don't have time to recount in full here, including a forced marriage to Magor after Agon the Uncrown was killed. But crucially, this is the key.

She resented not being considered for rule, not being chosen, not being, not being considered many different times. First, in favor of her brother husband, because she was the oldest sibling. Then, after Agon's death, Magor, who was Anus's brother from a, from that Vesnia is Magor's mother,

and Renée is Anis's mother of the Tarkarians. Maybe it was smart to make the family tree in the opening to this series. Then, after Magor's death, her younger sibling, Jeharis, is chosen over her. And there's this whole... Everyone but you. Literally anyone but you.

Yeah. There's a really fascinating stretch of fire and blood that's worth visiting where one of her daughter's area, aria? It's not aria, I guess, because there's another aria. Area? How do we think it's... I was going with Area earlier when I was talking about. Yeah, okay.

Yeah. Where the idea that, well, if Agonne was the rightful rule of her, and Nagor was a usurper, then wouldn't Agon's child, Aurea, be the rightful heir? Well, certain characters, more than one, temporarily props her up as air or seeks to use her, looking at you, Lord Roger, to further some sort of plot or scheme, scheme, or plot on an accident

that Raina is on our minds here, that Dreamfire, Raina's Dragon, is in the mix here, that Renira is, connected to Dreamfire and Raina through this egg, not an accident at all. And I think that, like, the fact that it's this egg that Reneer picked for her sibling who died, I think that, I bet you Reneer doesn't really care that Damon is set up at Dragon Snow. Reneer really likes Damon.

So I think she's just sort of like, okay, that's fine. You can go sit in the castle. I don't really care. She's not like, that's my castle. She doesn't really care. But she's like, this kind of sucked. This thing you did with the egg. Oh, it's fucked up.

Yeah. That was really. So. Even for Damon, it's beyond the pale. Like, that's a deeply personal and cruel affront. She's like, I'm going to get involved. I'm going to come and tell him to his face. This is fucked up that he did this.

So amazing in an episode where we've talked so many times about how the Sarish won't make a decision, won't move to act, that when he finally says, I'm going to go deal with this because he is also so wounded by this. Otto won't let him. Even when he decides to go. And I think it. it's just because Otto is working his agenda, right? He's constantly trying to, like, keep these brothers separate. Because if they get together,

what they will tell each other is, threat to him. I love you, man. I love you too. Like, you know, they, like, exactly. Absolutely. But it's also true, though, that he is allowing Otto to maneuver him in that way. And, like, you kind of can't help

but think about all of the other rulers, Targary and otherwise. When you think of an active ruler, like, you can't imagine, and again, Robert, Barathean, not a good king, but you can't imagine him not riding out to battle himself, right? Or Rob Stark. You just can't. You think of someone like Joffrey at the Battle of the Blackwater. Did she have urgent business? Like, these are the characters who are not on the front line. And I'm not saying Fasarra's Joffrey. That would not be warranted or fair.

But it's a rare thing that a ruler would allow their hand to say, sit back down. Otto. And let's just talk about Otto, like preparing to deploy. Otto Otto is getting ready to depart. I just want to talk about his really stupid armor for a second. Let's do it. It is just so ceremonial and perfunctory.

It is not protecting anything important. I just need to say that. And he doesn't have, and he doesn't have a, like, he's, later when we get to Dragonstone, he's the only one who, he doesn't pull a sword. Like, he's not there to actually fight. He's there just sort of like,

he's not fucking steel. Steal. He's there to posture, you know. But yeah. Allison is getting him ready to go. What he says to her about her nail-binding situation, she says, you're the most comely girl at court. Gross, gross.

Very tough. That is your daughter. That is your daughter. Disgusting. Will you sing the king tonight if you wish it again? Duty, right? This is the duty. But she's pissed.

She's frustrated and resentful and she hates being put in this position. And she's like, can I get another dress this one starting to smell? Can we rotate in another dress? I think that in this scene in particular, the way that she pulls her hands back away from him, the way that she says, if you wish it, really feels like she despises him. And so even if she is bound by that duty

and compelled to act to honor her father's wishes, it seems clear that she is resentful, deeply, deeply resentful of the way that he is using her and deploying her as a pawn in his game. I think people, like, I think it's a terrible mystery, on Allison to say that she is like scheming or angling or anything here is like, is she playing the game?

Is she good at playing the game? I think she kind of is. That move with the Stone Dragon is a really good move, right? But like, she didn't ask to be on the team and she didn't write any of the rules. So, you know. Yeah. This was not. This was not what she wanted.

That was a tortured sports metaphor. I didn't mean to, I didn't even mean to try to play in that. Well, I'm awaiting more sports metaphors from you. because we're heading to Dragonstone for this absolutely stunning visual sequence, the low sun, the heavy hanging fog, hiding dragons and secrets and intentions. And our guy, Damon Targary and the Rogue Prince, tossing that dragon egg like a football. Halfback pitch after half back pitch. So any sports references are welcome in this sequence, Joe.

Just a delight to be back with our guy, Damon. I mean, we miss him when he's gone. We had to wait a long time to get him in this episode. and this is a sequence where he is simultaneously able to flex, bringing out Keraxis, and absolutely dunked on and flexed on by Raneira in short order. Was there anything before we break down the actual exchanges here that you wanted to say about the filmmaking of this particular sequence?

Why, there is, actually. So we've been to Dragonstone before in Game of Thrones, especially in the later seasons, they found the stunning location the Bay of Biscay north of Spain. So a real-life castle that they went to. But we find out in the behind-the-scenes little mini-doc that they did this week,

that they filmed this in what's called the volume. Mallory and I have talked about the volume a lot. We talk about Star Wars. A lot of the Disney Plus Star Wars shows use heavily, lean heavily on the volume. The volume has a lot of benefits to it, but it also has a few limitations. We talked about this a lot

with Obi-1 Kenobi. there's like a particular fight where we sort of felt like we understood the limitations of the volume. Essentially, you know, it's a 360 screen situation where you can project the background. And it's fun to watch the behind the scenes because it's like this distorted thing. But when you see it from the perspective of the camera, it all makes sense. And that's really interesting. But the actual ground that you're working on in order to make that perspective work has to be small and contained. And so, like, in those Disney Plus Star Wars shows, a really good example is, like, the episode, The Jedi, where Asoka has, like, a showdown on a bridge. And we're on a bridge. And so our movements are limited. So here we are on this bridge. Similarly, here, we're on this bridge at Dragonstone. When you see the behind the scenes, the piece of set they're actually working on is so small. It's just one little... It's just one little...

chop section of this bridge, a recreation of this real place in Spain that they shot it before. I think this is absolutely breathtakingly beautiful. The advantage of the volume, among many other things, is the fact that that low-level sun, you can't shoot that normally because when you do reshoots, your son has moved. Like, you can't do that in a real location. So there's a lot of, like, and it's going to sound like an insult, but I don't mean, it felt very Thomas Kincaid painter of light. Like, it was painterly. It was beautiful. I do miss, like, feeling like I'm in a real castle, which is how I felt when Tyrion and John Snow got buzzed by Drogon on the, like, actual walkway there in Spain. So, like, there are advantages and disadvantages to this kind of

filmmaking, but it is, it's the same location, but digitally recreated here with all this And the fog helps, like, not only gives Syracs that cool entrance, but helps cover some of the yada, yada, yada, digital that's, like, happening in this moment, you know. Fascinating. Yeah, it's definitely worth checking out that making of. It was honestly shocking to see how small a little section of the bridge was. Really, really interesting. It's like basically where the gold cloaks in and the dragon keepers end, that's it. Like, nothing beyond them. Yeah. I love it. Worth noting, you know, the significance of Dragonstone, not only is a technologically connected filming location here, but for the Targaryens, this is the seat for the Targaryen air.

That's why we hear Reneera in episode one named the Princess of Dragonstone. And so Demon is posting up here for a reason to make and to incite that fury that he is continuing to insist that he has the claim, the right claim to be the air, that he does not honor or respect. Not only Renera's status, even though he has great fondness for her, but Viseras' decision, crucially. And we just get so much great Damon stuff in a very short sequence here. We get this lovely Sir Crispin. They change with Sir Kristen. He could have been Sir Crispin if Karexies had had his way with the assembled on the bridge. I love you, you noted this to me offline.

I loved your observation that Damon is just such a dick by calling Otto, Otto, without any of the terms of standing, sir, Lord, hand, nothing. Just, Otto. For Dr. Who fans, like, you'll be very familiar with Matt Smith deploying a hello. And when he says hello, he says it with the U, like H-U-L-L-O. and like Doctor Who fans are used to him going like, hello, pond, like very affectionately. But he just goes, hello, Otto.

And I just like, it's just like. It's amazing. Such a fuck you, honestly. So good. Otto, to his credit, get some good digs in on Damon here regarding this mummer's farce, as he calls it. Damon says, where is the king? I don't see him.

This is affirming our reed that his entire purpose here was to draw adversarists out to get attention. He wants attention from his big brother and he's sad that he doesn't have it. We then get this just banger of the line from Otto. This is a truly pathetic show, Damon. Are you so desperate for the king's attention that you've resorted to skulking about like a common cut person?

I'm simply keeping with the traditions of my house, the same as my brother did for his heir. Those traditions are for the true-born children of royalty, not for bastards, fathered on a common whore. remarkable stuff remarkable stuff there say this for Otto High Tower he's not afraid to speak his mind

we also get an iconic this is an abomination with every breath you slail your name your house your brother's reign and from Damon's side we get his Circee Lanister

I choose violence moment because when Otto says you'll never survive this demon's response is well happily neither would you and everybody

unsheaths their swords leading to, when you think back to watching Thrones to watching Thrones for the first time and hearing hearing Drogon

and enter the fighting pits in Marine before we saw him and this screech announcing the arrival of the dragon and then Karexies makes his way

begins to slink down the fortress and the fear is so palpable from everybody below, Otto telling them to sheet their swords. Just the looks

on Sir Harold's face, Kristen's face. It is a reminder, on the one hand, of the edge. The edge that dragons can provide, reinforced, of course,

by Reneira arriving on Syrax and solving everything momentarily. Damon and Reneira are characters who are willing to do what Vesaris isn't,

to use their dragons out in the field, to show that strength, to achieve an end. But it also, that response speaks to, and characters would be more accustomed

than many others to being around dragons, to seeing them because of their closeness to the crown, that it speaks to the horror and the peril that they risk unleashing every time they use their dragons in the world. I should note that I think recent Kingslanding transplant,

Sir Crispin Cole, has not spent a lot of times around the dragons because the way he drops his jaw when Syrac appears is like... More for the autos and dragonkeepers and the Westerlings of the assembled there. That's definitely true. You already mentioned, you know, thinking back to season seven and seeing the dragon fly over the bridge and John falling down. It was really fun to think about that. Joe, we then get this gorgeous parting of the fog,

parting of the clouds, and Syrax emerges. Reneira mounted. You gave us an incredible insight into the sound design for Caraxies on Talk the Thrones on Sunday. Dare I ask, do you have a similar gem to share about our beloved golden beast, Syrax? Syrax. I do. First, I want to mention two things really quickly. One is that Dave Gonzalez, beloved Dave Gonzalez, my co-coist, and trial by content was talking about sort of the changes that they've made to the dragon designs between Thrones and House of the Dragon. Dave is sort of like a VFX

expert. And he said, one thing they've done is that they've stopped showing people dismount from the dragons. And I laughed out loud when we get the shot, she lands and then the camera like just like pulls away to a wide shot and then she's on the ground. So like, keep your eye out for, lack of dragon dismount on this show. I was delighted by that that Dave was like immediately proven right. The other thing I want to say is yeah, Paula Fairfield, who's a pal of mine who does the sound for the dragons, I asked her, after she talked to me about Carraxies deviated septum, which you should listen to Talk to Thrones to find out about. I asked her about Syrax, and she said, Syrax has been planning her TikTok brand doing Painted Claw. It's what all the

tweens are about. She's into K-pop and glitter. and she thinks Caraxis is creepy and gross, but loves the attention. In fact, she wants everyone to look at her, but then gets upset when they do. So that is her take on Syrex. I love it. So, yeah. Unbelievable. That is incredible.

Thank you, Paula. What a gift. I can't wait to hear more as we meet more dragons. She said AMA, so I was like, I'm going to ask you about every single dragon. So, yeah, here we go. Oh, my God. Incredible. I can't wait.

I cannot wait to hear more. Speaking of people that everybody's looking at, Ranira, not afraid, not afraid to charge right into the thick of it, achieves what the men could not, gets the egg back from Damon without bloodshed, gets a few real digs in that force him to basically cower when he moves back into the castle and to head to the next scene that we'll talk about in the second. If he had his, like, sad little black drape from the episode. one that he wrapped himself in the brothel. His brothel shame cloak. Absolutely. It was brothel shame cloak time. She not only observes that,

she says this is my castle, you're living in uncle, which is amazing, but says, I'm right here, uncle. They move between Valerian and the common tongue, which is also interesting,

but she says, the object of your hire, the reason that you were just inherited, if you wish to be restored his heir, you'll need to kill me. So do it and be done with all this bother. She knows that her death is not what he wants. and that this will be the move that ultimately diffuses this high-tension moment.

And when he tosses that egg and she walks back and puts it in the little dragon egg crockpot, as you called it wonderfully on Talk to Thrones, and then takes off the look on Otto's face is mixed in with the respect on the bridge, very clearly, as we discussed on Sunday, this is not a person I can control. And my entire game as Otto Hightower Hand of the King, as a maneuverer in the Seven Kingdoms, is to control, is to play puppet master. And you see that on his face in that moment

that he realizes Reneira is not a character he's going to be able to do that with. Maybe be better at your job, Otto. I love the moment a little earlier when he's like escort the princess's safety and she's like, be careful on my dragon. I'm good, actually. I'm good, actually.

Yeah. Okay. the fact that she and Damon are veering in and out of Valerian in the common tongue is a good transition to talk about Masaria here, right? Because what's fascinating to me, no, no, genuinely it's not a joke. What's fascinating is that Masaria grabs, like, grocks what's going on from the Valerian. She speaks Valerian. Fun thing to know about her. What other languages does she speak?

That's the question for the Maesters. But Masaria comes in to talk to Damon here. I just loved as he's making his way back inside, the gold cloaks kind of gossiping, and then moving to line back up against the wall so that he can pass. And, you know, we know that this is an army that's loyal to him, that he has their reverence and respect.

But there was a real, our guy just got dunked on on his doorstep by a 15-year-old girl kind of. Five in that walk, which I really loved. Masaria, the scene with Masaria, this is a challenging scene to discuss because, on the one hand, the sentiments that she is sharing here are deeply sad and very important.

You know, she says, you are a Targary, and you can afford to play your stupid games with the king, but I cannot. And this is a character who Demon theoretically cares about, and he's still willing to use her, to the extent that he, He can.

Has the way that he like nestles his head on her shoulder, you know, maybe he just cares about having somebody there to comfort him. That's definitely possible. But he, without hesitation, and this is, of course, a theme with the men in the story, the way they use their women to achieve, the women around them to achieve their end, without hesitation uses her as a pawn in his game and his Game of Thrones. And that is all like harrowing and a real indictment of Damon. we learn, she says, I assured long ago that I would never be threatened by childbirth,

which is a key insight. So this was, you know, as, as Renera susses out on the bridge and gets him to say, well, one day, you know, maybe one day. It is, it is difficult, however, to not note how distracting the accent choice in this performance is when you're watching this scene. Steve, can we get a clip? until the king decides to reclaim his ancestral seat his men might not put the prince's head on a spike

but what would they do with the common or he claims he's taken to wife and made with child I'm actually pissed at the people in the show for letting this happen to this actress like this is messed up to like let her hang her out to drive with this in the episode who approved all the various cuts of this? I said something on Twitter about how this is what ADR, which is like going back in and re-recording your dialogue. This is what it was made for. And someone was like, I think she did ADR this.

And I'm like, how is this the best option? The best option is to just let Sanoia use her natural, beautiful British accent. That is the best option here. I understand she's not supposed to be from here. She says this thing about her homeland that she can't even remember. Like, I get it. But this is not the way. to do it.

And it's too bad because she cuts such a striking figure. She has this beautiful costume, this white, caped costume. And, like, standing right behind him, she reminded me a lot of, like, when Stannis would, like, have Melisandra, like, right next to him. Like, a very striking figure, a potentially very rich story utterly sunk by this incomprehensible, all-time bad accent. It's really confounding. So, if you want to, if you want to know more about this, So last week on trial by content, the podcast that Dave and Neil and I do on that drops on Thursdays, we debated what an actual dragon smells like. And we got the listeners to vote on it to follow up on the conversation Mallory and had.

This week we'll be debating the worst accent in Westrose, which means that like my guy little fingers coming back to the party, which is really fun. New accent every episode, every season with a guy Peter Ballash. What clip will you choose? Aiden Gillen gave us so many treasures. So anyway, we'll be talking about that on the pod on Thursday. And also the results of the poll. So there you go. Delightful.

Okay. Let's zip through the rest here. Back to King's Landing, where Vassaris, after holding Allison's dragon gift in his hands, sets out for a chat, an unencumbered chat. This is his desire with Lionel Strong, Master of Laws. And Leno Strong is the latest to say, basically, Lane is the right match. Don't overthink it.

We get a now historic Game of Thrones House of the Dragon Exchange. What's to mislike? She is 12. She will mature exchange. Haunting. And DeSaris asks outright about the risk of rejecting Corlis Valerian, the risk of rejecting the sea snake. And Strong says, it is unwise and cites yet again the very very very important. virtues of fortifying this key alliance. And he notes, quote, I fear nothing short of a direct line

to the Iron Throne will satisfy him. And he also says, Driftmark makes for a better ally than it does an enemy. This is consistent advice from Viseris's counselors, which is what he is saying, claiming here that he is seeking. But there's that human heart and conflict inclination again from our guy, George. Not just the Lena Allison. dilemma, but the very idea of marriage, at least this is something that he continues to voice. I never asked to remarry, he says, and Strong's like, my guy,

this is not an obligation you can put off for long. He's only pulled away from this conversation because Renera returns, and he learns that she flew Syrax to Dragonstone to deal with this, and he has this initial fury that he frames through the lens of her being his heir. You are my only air.

you could have been killed, which is like pretty gross and upsetting for us and Reneer to witness. But then he really quickly softens and they begin to discuss Emma and the need for him to remarry. And so this conversation between Lionel Strong moves directly into a conversation between Viseris and Reneira where he's saying, this was our opening clip that we heard today. On the one hand, he's expressing this real love and abiding love for M.I. can never replace her. but also voicing, our line is vulnerable too easily ended. And by marrying again, I may begin to ensure that we are better defended against whom, against whoever may dare to challenge us. And so you have this interesting brew with Viseras in the stretch where he is beginning to

internalize and accept the wisdom of his counselors. He is moving toward the decision that he knows he needs to make. And yet, in this candor, in this moment of candor with Renier, where he is bringing her into his confidence and sharing his thoughts with her, he cannot actually bring himself to say, by the way, let me tell you who I'm actually talking about and thinking about doing this with. Is it cool if I marry your BFF? He fears that conflict too severely. And so because of that fear, he ends up sparking it. Real, like, this is, this is the bad, like, okay, is it a bad move to marry 15-year-old? Yes. Is it a bad move to marry 15-year-old that is your

daughter's best friend. Yes. But is it a like the worst move to blindside her with that at a small council meeting? Yes. What the hell? Or are you thinking? Or also just even on the diplomatic front, let's pull Corlis aside and have a combo with him. Like, what are we doing here? Right. When Vassaris announces that he's going to, he's going to marry, Corlis sits up in his chair. He begins to smile. He's like, here we go. Here it is. Here it is. That path to the Iron Throne. And he, and he, is furious. This is an absurdity, he says. My house is Valerian the greatest power in the realm. What is Vassarist doing? I want to shout out one quick thing before. So he's alone in the small council room looking at the window. And then we see everyone sort of filing behind him.

Real tip of the hand that Allison is even there, by the way. Right. Why isn't everyone like, wait a minute. Where's her little ball to put in a circle to clock into the meeting? She doesn't have one. But he's staring at the dragon pit is what he's staring at. And I just think that like thinking, I don't, I'm curious what he thinks about when he looks at the dragon pit. Does he think about the dragons inside that this, this inner true nature of himself that he's afraid of? Is he thinking about Megor the cruel who built the dragon pit? Like, is he thinking about, is what I'm about to do about to tear this place that I'm looking at apart? do I dare do this thing?

Do I dare reach for this thing I want at the expense of all of this? Like, how is this going to impact the realm? So love, you know, classic Mallory Rubin-Mastor-Aim and Love and Duty moment here. Death of Duty, Joanna. Staring at the Dragon Pit. Great about Allison being in the room is that it allowed for that eye contact in those moments between Allison and Renera. Because while, of course, Renera feels betrayed by her father, her gaze lingers on

Allison before she runs and flees. It feels like that is the betrayal she feels more keenly. Because Reneer is very smart. She figures it out just before her father says it, right? She just figures it up by the fact that she's like... Because he turns and stares at Alicent and Reneer is like, wait a minute. Why is this person here? Why are you looking at her?

And why is she wearing the same dress three days in a row? I have a lot of questions. Oh, my God. We go to the closing scene of the episode. Corlis. not just a character to dispense awesome quotes and pearls of wisdom to others, but one who is not going to await the coming storm. He has summoned Damon to Driftmark.

He is seeking to forge a partnership. And he appeals to Damon's resentment over being passed over, cast aside, and he makes his pitch, which is intercut with these visuals of the crab feeder, hammering away. Now, he's hammering at bodies that he is staking to the driftwood. But again, you can use a hammer to open up. a crab. So I think it really does all track. And he is pitching Damon to join him in the

stepstones and prove his worth. And there's this great back and forth because Damon is really amusingly protective of Viseris. He says, I will speak of my brother as I wish you will not. But he's also just dunking on him and eviscerating him. He says it was never my brother's strongest trait. What? Being king, which is an all time jab. I want to shout out this email we got from Adam. And in all the emails we got, I don't like to play favorites, but this was a favorite of mine. So the question we had last week was, did Demon really say that thing, air for a day? The thing that sets Viseris off when he's talking about his nephew who dies in infancy.

And I was making the argument, maybe perhaps Damon didn't say that. And because of the unreliable narrator nature of fire and blood, right? So Adam writes, and he says, there is some speculation this week on how much doubt we can cast and whether Damon really said, quote unquote, air for a day. And y'all just about had me convinced, but when I rewatched it, I noticed that in the part of his speech, we get from the street of silk, he says, the gods give, just as the gods take away to the king's sun, the air for a day is the implied end of that. And so Adam writes, it had me feeling, okay, they meant for us to think that he definitely

said it because they put it as a rhyming couplet. The gods give just the gods take away to the king's son, air for a day. And then he says, but then I noticed in the throne run scene when basically one of Vassaris confronts Damon. And he says, air for a day, did you say it? And Damon says, his next thing he says was, we all mourn in our own way, which also completes the toast slash poem and could totally be what he said. as a way to refer to his mourning through brotheling,

which, yeah, may still be disrespectful if it fits the character just as well and isn't quite as damning. So did, so I ask you, listeners, wow. Did Damon say, the gods give, just as the gods take away to the king's son, the air for a day,

or did he say the gods give just as the gods take away to the king's son, we all mourn in our own way? Which did he say? Which team Damon are you on? Also, while we're on Team Damon here, I just want to shout out also.

We've already talked about the Valerian Steel sword that he carries, Dark Sister. He also has, in the scene with Corliss and probably Elsor, but I notice it here, this rad dagger with a really cool hilt on it that's just, like, sitting at his hip. I think it's way cooler than the cat's paw dagger, to be honest with you.

It's got this, like, split head on the, on the hilt. Anyway, very cool. Now, a lot of characters carry daggers, but I like to think that Damon was just like, Viseris is always walking around with this dagger. I really wanted to notice my dagger and tell me that my dagger Give me a desk.

My dagger. Sarah, look at my dad. It's just as long as his. Oh, God. This, that is an amazing email. I'm casting my vote officially that he said air for a day. But I'm open to any possible outcome. I'm team we all mourn in her own way.

I love it. I think that Damon, who I adore it is my favorite part of the show so far, is working through some maturity issues. and maybe says and does some things that don't necessarily reflect the innermost workings of his heart. The innermost workings of Corliss's heart are right out there for all to see.

He cements this other great theme of the episode in this season so far, this idea of the second sons, the characters who have to make their own way. Steve, give us the quote here. Waiting in the stepstones is a chance for you to prove your worth to any who might yet doubt it.

The other realm's second sons, Damon. Our worth is not given. Another amazing line, an amazing line read. Now, we talked about this a bit on Talk to Thrones. Based on our understanding of existing book canon, Corlis is not actually a second son. Now, this could be a show update entirely possible, but regardless.

And this is, I think, my read on it at the moment. He's drawing a parallel between himself and Damon and a very effective one. We are the ones who have to go forge our own path and fight to take what we want. It's not just going to be handed to us or give it to us. And what I really love about this is in addition to it being a bridge between Corliss and Damon here, it is an idea that ties them to their mutual enemy, Otto, whom they both hate but are connected

to in this way because, as Damon said in episode one, a second son who stands to inherit nothing that he doesn't seize for himself. And it connects them in a way even more broadly to Renier. and Rainis and Alicent as well, the characters who were not meant to inherit power, who have to fight for it and who will. That is the story that we're watching. And I thought this was a great scene to distill that into that essence. I want to shout out my favorite, genuinely my favorite speech from game, like speech of my

heart from Game of Thrones, which is our guy Littlefinger says, chaos isn't a pit, chaos is a ladder. That part people remember. But here's what comes next. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some are given a chance to climb. They refuse. They cling to the realm or the gods or love illusions.

Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is. And that is what he's talking about here. The climb, right? The climb that is all there is. Also, I do want to shout out this one other tip that we get in this scene is that Corlis says, he mentions the driftwood throne, which is the throne that House Valerian. has, and like, according to legend, the throne was given to the Valerians, the first Valerian family

to come to Westeros by the Merling King, which is basically Poseidon, like a god gave them this throne. And so it's sort of this idea of like divine right of, like the Valerians have their own version of divine right of kings. They believe that they are divinely chosen to rule out here on the drift mark. And I think that's really interesting. Incredible. I love it so much. What an episode. Joanna Robinson, my dear colleague, partner, co-host, friend, fiancé, I think after this episode. Afianced over a mini-fake kiss. More extreme runtime pace than we were last week. Astonishing stuff even for us. And so we will go very, very, very quickly rapid fire through our rapid fire episode awards. It's time to make the eight. Wigwatch, Joe, who you got this week?

because I want to give her something, I'm going to give Best and Misaria. I like her braid crown, so I just want to give her something because everything else is bad. And then the worst is little baby Lena in the garden with the curly wig that's like twice her body weight. How about you? Incredible. I'm doing best and worse as the same one. Rainis, because it's resplendent, as we've noted before. But the way it was blowing in the wind in the scene out in the grounds was.

Really something to behold. Fit watch. Best, worst fit. Worst, Allison Hightower's one dress. It's actually, it's a beautiful dress, but, okay. You know my feelings. And this is best Renira's dragon riding costume. And it's just like one more, like,

that's the really cool scales on our shoulders. And in the behind the scenes of episode one, they talked about how the dragon armor on Damon made him an armored living dragon, is what they called it. And so I just like this idea that Vassaris does not wear a lot of dragon-y things. But Damon and Reneer are like, you know, clothing themselves in the trappings of the dragon.

So that's my best. Her dragon riding outfit is my pick for best as well. That was awesome. My pick for worst is Sir Desmond Karen. And really all of the would-been members of the Kingsguard who just... They look like dorks. It's the tradition of the day,

but they look like fools. They look like fools. And his in particular... You know, it's cool to see the night song sigils, but the literal massive golden orange feather atop his cap. Tough to take him seriously. Okay. Yeah.

In the world of Pulpiction. Yeah, dorks. They look like a couple of dorks. Number three. They got bigger than bigger. Best bit of dragondom. This is an easy one for this episode. Oh.

Yeah? What's yours? It has to be both, it's a shared honor. It's Caraxis and Syrax, both of their entrances on the bridge of Dragonstone. What's yours? I was giving it to Syrac's. The edge to Syracs emerging from the fog. That's fair.

Very cool. Slight edge. Number four. The doctrine of exceptionally weird sex stuff, aka incestor brothel corner. Doesn't have to be incestor brothel. It could just be weird. Not a very sexy episode, but I will just say like. Like, do you think in five to ten years when Vassar's first has sex with Alasant, five to ten years he'll wait, I'm sure?

Do you think, like, Stanis on the painted map table at Dragonstone, he'll take her on the model village? I always thought that that just seemed so painful. Like, poor Melasantra's back on that rough-pun painted table. That actually startled me. Oh my God. What do you have, Mallory, for this? What did your mother tell you that I wouldn't have to bet you until I turned 14? Truly horrifying.

Number five. If this show had Netflix subtitles, best sound design and desired close captioning. What do you got? There's only one. It has to be maggots, rustling. hungrily. Oh, Joe, we almost have the exact same one. I went with maggots writhing hungrily. They're so dry. They sounded so dry. So I went with Russell, but writing's a really good one. Rice Krispy treats without the milk, you know? It was very tough. Number six, Archmaister

Ebrose can never, best quote. You already know my pick. It's the cordless one. I've said it a hundred times to elude a storm. You can either sail into it or around it, but you must never await it's coming. Amazing. We've mentioned mine as well, but I'm going to go with it. I imagine even dragons get lonely. I really like that line. Oh, sad. Oh, God.

Number seven, Leo, pointing me in most exciting, familiar object or location. Being of the painted table, it's the Dragonstone War Room, which we saw a bunch of times in Thrones. We saw DeNarison there. We saw Stanis in there. No painted table in there for some reason, but like the walls look the same. That made me think it had to be a different room. Because like Agon made the painted table.

I know, but I feel like it's in stories. or something like that because like the wall, the like the dragon, the silver dragon stuff on the wall was the same. Maybe they just have the same wall carvings or wallpaper in every room. I was like, where the fuck is the painted table?

I do like the idea that they haven't, maybe they're having some art restoration done. It's possible. It's possible. It's getting a new coat of lacquer so someone else can have sex on it. Who won the episode? Stanis gave that a new coat of lacquer,

you know? Oh. I'm going with the bridge, the Dragonstone Bridge. Just gorgeous. Love to see it. Delightful. Great. Wonderful.

Number eight, I ask your favor. Who won the episode? This is actually kind of tough for this one because a lot of characters catch L's, but also a lot of them do meaningful things. I hate what I'm about to do. I'm about to give the episode to Auto-Fucking High Tower. Yeah. It's hard not to because,

he gets what he wants at the end. He is just so totally embarrassed on the bridge, though. Who are you picking? I was going to pick Alicent or Otto as well. Something in the house High Tower feels right. I want to pick Corliss because I thought it was such an amazing Corlis episode.

And I like the way that he is so decisive and definitive in the course that he wants to take. But it's difficult not to note that he has to do those things because the king won't do anything he wants or listen to anything he says. So I don't think I get it. actually pick them. I think you're right. It's auto. It has to be. Ugh, gross. Terrible. All right. We have a new segment. If you've listened to this podcast over the last

10 months? Yeah, almost a year. You're familiar with Secret Scroll Watch, a tradition where whether or not we're talking about the MCU. We pick a character in the given movie or show that we just watch who we think might be a Secret Scroll. Thanks to some wonderful suggestions, we have decided to continue the tradition, but with a twist, with the Thronean twist. Faceless man watch, Joe. Steve, is that you? Yes, it is. Oh, my God.

How many takes? Tell us honestly. There were like nine. It was like a faceless man, faceless man watch. Facesness Man Watch award. Absolutely tremendous. Wow.

Love it. Delightful. By the way, we got a lot of emails. We had a lot of emails from people saying they never watched Game of Thrones and they're watching House of the Dragon. So if you don't know, a faceless man is someone who could change their face.

That's a thing from Game of Thrones, a TV series, that apparently some of you have never watched, which is fine. Who do you think in this episode could be a faceless man? It's got to be Masaria. That's my pick, too. How else to explain it? I think I keep, like, speaking of accent,

I think it's Masaria, Masaria. I keep saying Misaria for some reason. Anyway, Masaria. We did get also an email from Amanda. Yep, there it is. And actually a number of people asking, before we go into our book, spoiler section here, asking, would we recommend reading Fire and Blood? And she said, will it make my experience watching the show better or worse? I'm very sad to turn off the pod when you get into the spoiler section.

I want to be part of the party. But I also worry reading a dry history version of the events would spoil the TV show and not be that fun of a read. I'll go first and just say, I actually think Fire and Blood is really fun. Like, it's not very dry. It's kind of spicy and funny. What do you think in terms of, like, spoiling the show for yourself as you read it? Yeah, I agree with you. I mean, fire and blood is like a gossip mag.

Yeah. You know, everybody's trading their tails, whispering someone's ear about what they think happened. It's incredibly entertaining, so I would recommend it for that reason. I personally, you know, mileage may vary, but I think not only does it not take away anything from the show, it isn't enhancing it for me because while we know certain eventualities, things that happen, times that they happen. As we've talked about a lot, the unreliable narrator nature of fire and blood, there's not the definitive account. And so we are learning so much about the true nature, not only of what happened, but why, what motivated characters. And so I think they're actually

really complimentary experiences. And I would recommend it. But if it's not something that you want, that's completely fine, too. What do you think? I'm always in favor of reading the book. I think it just enhances your experience. And then you can come join us in the next section. I love to read the book. Love to read the book. Speaking to the next section, it is time for a dance of dragon dreams. This is our book, Spoiler Look Ahead. Yeah, so the spoiler section is coming.

Not what I'm about to say is not a spoiler, but spoilers are coming after, so leave if you want to. Now that we've heard Steve go faceless, I kind of want him to just say, like, dance at the end of like all these sound cues. You know what I mean? So Steve, can you put together a whispered reverb? Made to order now? Okay. Dragon Pit. I love it.

Oh, my God. Bake. Rally. Oh, God. Okay, you have one more warning here. Bounce if you don't want to hear things that are happening in the future and fire and blood and how certain things that were occurring in this episode set up events to come. Three, two, one.

Vagas. Joe, we talked about Vagar already, but... Yeah. This was a delight to hear Lina Valerian, Vagar's future writer, talk about Vagar, ask about Vagar, ask where Vigar's nesting, to hear specifically the Spacetown mention because Spice Town is on drift mark,

so the idea that Vagar is just so close to Lena's home. Like, when will we see this? This was just so exciting. And then more broadly, Vagar... as a key role to play in many battles to come in many respects in this story that we'll be watching over the next few years. So it is certainly not an accident

that we have gotten multiple vagar mentions to date and hearing it from Lena was just a treat. And can we just say that in the books, so like to our earlier point about who has claimed a dragon when and why and how, in the books, Lena, who is 12 in the books, has already claimed Vagar,

who is the biggest dragon that exists, had already at 12, according to the book claimed Vagar. And so the Lain-Ur-Laynor timeline stuff is specifically what was informing our hesitancy to say too much earlier because there's clearly just a shifting of when things are happening.

But yeah, yeah. Absolutely, but Lainal loved a fly and claim for her own no less amount than mighty Vagar, the oldest and largest. Like, she's so cool, like that she's done this. But like the timeline question is important because, like, so we have seen in the trailer and I feel like trailers are okay in a book spoiler section.

We have seen a young Amund Targaryen claim Vagar, which he does in the books. Lena dies. You're in the spoiler section, guys. Lena dies and guess what childbirth, of course. Like, so young Amon Targaryen, who is one of Allison's children, claims mighty Vagar for himself as a child, just like Lena does, right? We should say in the trailer, we see adult Amit.

So, like, think of all the things that need to happen. Lena has to, like, grow up, get married, Damon, have her children, die in childbirth, die, have baby Amon to claim Vagar, and adult Amon is in the trailer as well. That, like, what? We're about to zoom through time, essentially. I know. We see Agon. I was shocked that the teaser for next week's episode, for episode three, just revealed that

Allison DeMitton and Vassarra Savasan, they revealed Agan and the teaser, which I was stunned by. But we need characters to have children. and then for those kids to have children of their own. Like, Allison needs to have grandkids within a handful of episodes here. And I am as much as I've loved the show so far, I am a little anxious about the ground we have to cover before the dawn of the dance itself. A little anxious about that.

But the Vagar stuff is really cool. Listen, Amund, I can't wait to get Amid One Eye in the show and to see all this. It is responsible for a lot of really bad shit. Joe, what do you have next here? Who knows about the dream going forward in the dance? Okay, so as we've established, and we've thought about it far down the row, but let's think about it in the short term.

Facerus tells Reneura. In the trailer, we hear Damon say it wasn't dreams that, you know, blah, blah, it was dragon. So, like, I feel like Reneer is going to tell Damon, who will become her husband. You're in the spoiler section, right? Reneera marries Damon Targaryen. So he's her husband. Sorry, Steve. If he's her husband, she tells him.

But so that's one side of the Civil War. The Reds and the Blacks, right, is Damon and Renera. The Greens, which is Team Alicent and her children, do they know about the dream? And like the thing about Viseris is, despite the fact that he has these boys with Alicent, he has insisted that Reneura is his heir until he dies. He is adamant and insistent and tells Reneer's son that he will be king.

So I do not think that Vassaris told Agan, Alicent, or told Agon or told anyone on Team Green. So when you think about the dance and one side knows about this massive prophecy and this big important thing coming and then the other side doesn't, that's a fascinating proposition. Additionally, this is pointed out to me by someone, guess what comes? during right smack dab in the middle of the Dance of Dragons. Winter. Winter hits 129 to 131 is the dance. Winter hits 130. And actually, Rainer starts acting kind of a little reckless. This is what I was just going to ask you is, do you think there is any chance that even though Reneira and Agon are warring for rule in the Dargarian Civil War, do you think there's any chance that Reneira after Vassaris' death,

having been entrusted with the secret, would have told Agon in case because she can't let that die with her? Can she? No, because Vesaris, do you say after Vesars dies? Vesars dies and, like, they're immediately at war. Agon is crowned over in Kins and she has to confront that specific dilemma at some point.

The person I'm at war with, I have a responsibility to honor my father's wish to not let this secret die. This is a really good question. I mean, I feel like she's going to tell her children, but the question is in what timing because they just keep dying off. So she's like, oh, my God. Call in the next one. She's like, call in the next boy so I can tell him and then he's going to die.

But like, that's a great, I think that's a decent question. I want to at least see her wrestle with it at some point. I think any interesting question that a lot of people have been asking it in this week since we learned about the dream is like, we got this epic email from this listener, Sam, that I will not get into right now because it is way too long and involved. And maybe I can boil it down the future. But it's about the chain of custody of the dream. And there were two main questions that he was posing at the top, which was one was,

does every king tell his queen? I think the answer is no. Like we think Jahor has told Alisane, but like, does every king tell his queen? Maybe not. But like, probably Vesnia knew Agon's sister. wife Vesnia probably knew and that's how our sons find out, et cetera. The other really interesting question is like when a king rides into battle with an uncertain outcome, does he make sure people know when he rides into something that he's not sure he's going to come back from?

And that thought, I think, ties into your question of like, is... Right. What's her contingency plan? And maybe she tells Aik on like right at the end, right at the end, like, when he kills her. Maybe that's when Egg 2 finds out what's going on. Just need a second here. Hold your fire. Any kills her anyway? Sure. That's interesting.

Yeah, this is going to be an amazing, amazing thing to track. I'm fascinated by this. Speaking of deaths really quickly, you and I both clocked in the behind the scenes doc when they were talking about the small balls of small counsel, significant cutaway to Lord Beesbury. Love this for you. Love this for you. If you watch that, watch them talk about the small balls at the small council, and then hard cut to Beesbury. I think you're right.

I think it's going to happen. I hope I'm right. Poor Beesbury, but I will be like screaming and hopping in my house if I'm right about that. So it could be wrong, though. What about, Mallory, what about the Valerian-Tararian marriages? What do we want to say about that? You know, you mentioned already that Damon and Reneera will.

will wed, but you know, we got a couple marriages to get through first. They will both marry members of house Valerian. Damon will marry Lena. Renira will marry Lenore. I'm expecting the Renira Lenore. I'm expecting that to develop in the next episode based on the teaser.

And there's that little snippet about Vassaris talking to Reneera, yelling at Reneer really about how she needs to marry. So I think that will come soon. And I'm just really, I'm fascinated to see in the show with the full clarity of everybody's motivations how both of those unions are framed and like whose benefit they're positioned as like achieving. Because it's, it's interesting to think of like the, and we can kind of incorporate the stepstones aspect into this.

Like, we're going to watch the stepstones battle. We're going to see Damon Bed, our gray scale riddled, crab feeder with Dark Sister. We're going to see Damon name himself King of the Stepstones in the Narrow Sea, but who crowns him?

Corliss. This is a meaningful shared stretch of story and history for them. What happens when Damon marries Lena? And how is that

going to differ in the show from in the books? Potentially, I'm just really curious to see what timeline that unfolds on and who is happy and who is pissed.

I also think it's interesting because we should point out that, So Reneira marries Lenore, Lena's brother, who we saw briefly in episode one, who is gay. And so there's is like a sexless marriage. And there's this whole stretch of the book where there's a question, not a stretch. It's a short sentence maybe. Where there's this question of like, was Reneira having threesomes with Lina and Damon?

That's like a question that the book asks. And it speaks to this question of Runeer. Reneer's bisexuality. I just think, like, it goes back to this idea of, like, is Reneer in love with Allison? And is that a part of this whole traumatic fall apart of their relationship is, like, because the hearts and the bodies were involved. Speaking of, Joe. Yeah.

Tell us about the rings. Okay, color theory. We got this fun email from Kaylee, who says, let me tell you, I screamed when we got a close-up of their hands with the red and green rings. So like, uh, the color coding is fun to watch green rings on Allison, red rings on Reneira, right? But also the one dress that Allison wears in this episode, it's not the green, high tar green and it's not the Allison blue, which I consider like her true self as the Allison, like the blue she was wearing before. It's cerulean, which is a combination of blue-green. So, um, I think there's some fun color theories. But I do

think that like Allison, when she's being, when she's actually alicent, that's blue, the sort of like Virgin Mary Blue that they put on her. What else do you want to say about the stepstones of Valerie, this like massive, hyped battle of this season? I honestly, I think the only other thing I wanted to say is just that it is absolutely, again, loving this television show, bizarre. That this is being propped up as this like, the craft videos being propped up as this like big, looming foe. We were texting last night and, you know, I went to my Kindle

because you could do a handy, a search. Four mentions of Kragas in all fire and blood. Four. This is just kind of strange. But, you know, again, we have a lot of time to get through before the dawn of the dance itself. So it's just like, I'm a little worried.

They're like, it really feels like they're overhyping him. And especially in that behind the scenes documentary, it was like all about the design design of the crab feeder. That being said, you know, in the story that he is, Grayscale and all this sort of stuff. So like maybe it will have a big expanded role in the show. I don't know.

But like at one point in that behind the scenes documentary, they called him a boogeyman. And again, that seems like more in line with our idea of this character, which is just sort of like he's this figure, but he's not actually a character. He's just like a figure. And he's like looks incredible. But like, is he going to be a character?

And if he's not, are people going to feel slightly bait that there was like a bait and switch in terms of the Battle of Stepstones? Because the Battle of Stepstones maximum one episode. Not that any Battle on Thrones last that much longer than an episode but like Well, tease for next week. We see in the

in the preview for episode three a dragon breathing fire down on the stepstone. So I'm expecting to say goodbye to the crab feeder quite soon. I bet he's gone next week honestly. And like I think that's Lenore's dragon. I would love

that. I would love to meet C-Smoke. That would be amazing. I hope that's true. Anything you want to say about Kristen? I mean, we talked about this last week. We're going to talk about it again, so we don't need to really linger. But, you know, obviously the vibes, the strong vibes and energy with the Reneera Kristen's sequence and everything that awaits on that front. But, you know, also, he has had an interaction with Allison in both episodes so far, which feels more notable to me given the switch in allegiance that awaits our guys, Kristen Cole. Yeah, Kristen Cole has this, like, closest with Renera, and then he switches sides to Allison very, very dramatically and significantly. So, like, if you're, if you, if you have

a fondness for Kristen Cole, I would, I would just keep it in your pocket and hold on, because like, it's not, he may look like John Snow, but he's not, he's no John Snow. Um, yeah, Kristen Cole, I thought it was notable that he, when Renera runs out of the small council chamber crying, he follows, I mean, he's her assigned to King's Guard, but he follows after her. So, just, but in the soft-focused background. Anyway, let's talk about Masaria. This is our last one here.

Big change in the book. In that, in the book, book passage is, when he learned Damon, when Damon learned his concubine was pregnant, Prince Damon presented her with dragon egg, but in this, he again went too far, woke his brother's Roth. King Viseras committed him to return the egg, sent his whore away.

Great. And returned to his lawful wife, or else, be attainted as a traitor. The prince obeyed, though with ill grace, dispatching Masaria, eggless, misaria, back to Lees whilst he himself flew to Roonstone in the veil and the unwelcome company of his bronze bitch. But Masaria lost her child during a storm on the narrow sea. When word reached Prince Damon, he spoke no syllable of grief, but his heart hardened against the king, his brother.

We got this email from Tom, who presented this alternate theory of the case, which is that fire and blood just swallowed hook line and sinker, Damon's story, that Masari was pregnant, and that maybe she was never pregnant at all. And in terms of like the quote-unquote actually happened. And he said, did a quick read of that part in Fire and Blood last night with his mind. And I think it still fits. Damon could send her away, make it known that the child was lost at sea so it removes the target from Masaria's back. This tracks with what she would want since she clearly desires safety and not wanting to live in fear. And I think this tracks with what Damon would do during this period with his please notice me little brother complex before realizing he

irresponsibly put Masari at risk. So other than the part of his heart hardened against the king, his brother, that's the one part that doesn't like super track. But like, yeah, maybe. It was all just a story that Damon told for attention and then told another to protect the woman they put in danger. But her anger in this episode at Damon, I think is a good ground. like if Masaria is going to play the role that she plays in the books,

and I really hope that they just like tell Sonoya to drop the accent and just forget it, never happen. I don't care. I just like, we can't do this for like, she's here the whole dance. The Wanda Maximoff. Yeah. It's just move away from it. Yeah, give her the old Wanda trying.

But like she, as the dance happens, she really seems more like her allegiance is to Reneira than Damon. Like, and eventually she tells Reneer. that Damon is sleeping with nettles. So I feel like that betrayal angle from Masaria is like the seeds are sort of here in this moment. I don't know. It's interesting. A rich text.

That's around. So we did it. All right. Still, and we definitely thought we were going to be a little shorter on this episode. Shocking stuff. You know, I guess I'll say she's again north of three hours. She will mature. Thank you to our dragon lords, Steve Allman,

for his work as the senior producer on this episode. Arjun Ram Gapal for his additional production work on this episode and Jomi Adoneron for his work on the social media for this episode. We will see you again on Friday for our Rings of Power premiere deep dive. We are so excited for that. And then again on Sunday night, of course, immediately after HotDie episode three for Talk to Thrones. Until then, remember, it was never our brother's strongest trait.

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