House of R - 'House of the Dragon' Season 2, Episode 2 Reactions | Talk the Thrones

Episode Date: June 24, 2024

The hunt for blood and cheese is on, chaos is breaking out in Westeros, and sometimes you just can't tell the twins apart. Chris Ryan, Mallory Rubin, and Joanna Robinson share their thoughts on the latest episode of 'House of the Dragon'! Hosts: Chris Ryan, Mallory Rubin, Joanna Robinson Production: Jack Wilson, Chris Wohlers, Nick Kosut, Tony Perry, Bobby Gibbons, Cory McConnell, Arjuna Ramgopal, Steve Ahlman, John Richter, Aleya Zenieris, Jomi Adeniran, Jordan Bathe, Abreanna Corrales and Yvonne Wang Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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See terms at Fandul.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash herms. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 U.S.-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum Business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. Hello and welcome to Talk the Thrones. My name is Chris Ryan. I am here with Ringer's senior staff writer, Joanna Robinson, and Mallory Rubin's evil twin, Valerie Rubin. Insolent pup. We are here to talk about House of the Dragon, episode two from the second season.

Guys, before we jump into the episode, I would just like to let everybody know that we have a live show coming up on Tuesday, June 25th at the Elray Theater in Los Angeles. People can get tickets through the ringer.com slash events. That's right. Or they can go to the LRA website or maybe they could just show up the day of, you know,

and see if they can get a bargain. I don't know. I mean, I don't know how the free market works. Joe, last episode, the first episode, Sun for Sun, we ended and it had a very clear, tragic, climactic moment. Yeah. This episode does also end with a, I guess, tragic climactic moment, but was it the most important moment?

I don't know why I just sounded like Jimmy D. Glick when I asked you that. But was it the most important moment of the episode, the Eric Eric fight. Oh, okay. I thought you were going to talk about when Agon destroyed the Lego model that was there spent his entire life. He worked so hard. That was like the most tragic death.

He poured over the plans for old Valeria. For most importantly sort of unifying theme, I sort of, I think it's auto getting kicked out of the Green Council and Damon leaving the Black Council. And these two guys who are sort of, you go back to episode one, their hatred. for each other, kind of kicked all of this off. So for them to be kicked out of the game was kind of interesting. Was that your takeaway as well? Sorry, that took me back to remembering when Damon talked about Otto's withered

cock. Season one, what a time that was for all of us to share together. You got it. That was a lot of you shattered the override. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Every week, that's my goal. Earlier and earlier every time. Yeah, I think, like, broadly shattered trust,

and then more specifically, shatter trust inside of each fact. Like this question of, can you rely on in the greens, in the blacks, and then even further inside of that, this generational divide that is emerging. Like a lot of mentions in the episode about age, about youth, and how that is either bringing people together or teaching a certain character a lesson. Like Renira was willing to accept something when she was young about Damon that she now has the wisdom to maybe no longer tolerate. She's like, I have enough items on my agenda.

Too many challenges already. Too many challenges already. Should we recap the episode? Let's do it. Let's do it. Okay, we join Law and Order King's Landing already in progress. A lot of action, just running around some detectives. In the aftermath of Jahris' beheading, frankly, everyone is grieving in their own way.

Allison blames herself. Otto tries to leverage the tragedy as a political victory, and AGO wants revenge. The difference of opinion between the latter two will eventually lead to their split, but before all that, we have to have a funeral. Helena has a panic attack when the procession stalls. So did all of us. Yes. Well, I had a panic attack because they kept lingering on that kid's wobbly head.

Yeah, he just kept like jiggling. And the stitching, it just looked like the seams on a baseball. It was not great. But like a 19-year-stallied baseball. Not like a tight one. Yeah, not a juiced ball. I was just nervous because Kings Landing apparently has more potholes than Philadelphia. It takes Laris all of 10 minutes to find either blood or cheese.

I never really got that straight, to be honest. And one of those guys flips on his boy as soon as he sees the advanced interrogation techniques waiting for him. Vegas was not taking bets on whether Agon was going to eventually kill that guy. And lucky for us, Agon did eventually. Good swing.

Yeah. Perry, just won and done. On Dragonstone, the fallout is nearly as bad as it is in King's Landing. The kid killing has sent a tremor through Renera's counsel, and it doesn't take her long to realize that all this secret shit

is leading back to Damon. They play Who's a Frum. afraid of Virginia dragon in an emotional knockdown, dragout, China-shattering fight that ends with Damon taking his bird and going somewhere, I assume, Haran Hall. Do you think the 19 mentions...

Of Heron Hall? Intending to Heron Hall might be pointing toward Harinol. He just seemed like he was just, like, breaking out... Needed some air. Point north. Yeah. What do you think tipped Rineer off that Damon might be in charge? Was it the huge shit-eating smirk on his face

while they were talking about the dead? Damon not speaking at a meeting for the first time ever, was a big red flag. Yeah. In his absence, Renira enlists her, his daughter, Bela, to patrol this guy's at the expense of her own son. I have a note on this.

You think it's too dangerous for Jace. He's the air. He's the air. It's tough. We get a fair amount of Kristen in this episode, and I loved it. He's dealing with some... Some kind of a... What people need to know is that Chris Ryan has come out vehemently pro-Christian Cole.

Not in his behavior, but... just as like, it's a character I'm watching. He's dealing with some kind of original sin, but this is Chrissy Cole, we're talking about. So which sin is a lingering question? I think he's ultimately broken up about defiling his cloak with sexual exploits. So he takes it out on his Kingsguard subordinate Eric Cargo. Kristen gives Eric a mission impossible, pretend to be her twin brother, Eric, sneak into Dragonstone, kill Roneira.

That's right. And if you can escape with your life, but that is not a real thing. Not much emphasis put on the last part of that. So you're not making any attempt to distinguish between Eric and Eric. You're just like... Should I? No, I mean... I think you're doing great money.

I think you are crushing it. Both wind up in the same place. You're right. You're right. Baila and Jace seem to get a little something, something going before Jace kills the buzz by talking about his dead brother. Speaking of Buzz, and this will come up several times during this episode, Amon is gone off that milk of the poppy, at least according to me, not to these two snowflakes.

We'll just go. hanging out with a lady of the night who is both his lover and his surrogate mother. That is cool. She reminds Aiman of the little people, the small folk affected by these warring families. To further illustrate the point, we get a scene of a smithy trying to make ends meet

and another one of Adam and Allen. A smithy. Your guy, Hugh. By guy. The petitions of episode one. Trying to make ends meet. And another one of Adam and Alan dreaming of making their fortune in the war to come.

You spelled Adam and Alan correctly in the outline. I'm so proud. I spell check. And finally, Masaria coming face to face with Renera, asking her to come through with the absent Damon's end of their bargain, which was essentially, I give you a way into Kings Landing to kill these kids. You let me go.

Renira does so, and that winds up being a big deal when Masaria spots Eric, pretending to be Eric. Yeah. On his way to kill Renira, the episode peaks with another grisly set piece, the twins killing one another, after which we get a combo of politics, tears, and sex.

Great show. God bless this show. Yeah. That was the recap. You know what? Incredible, iconic recap. Wonderful. I'm a little sad that the fact that Corlees likes to get domed in bed did not make the recap. I'm sorry. I would try to condense it down to the main points, but that's why we have this entire Talk to Thrones is that you guys can illuminate me about people's sexual preferences in House of the Dragon.

Mal. Chris. I thought actually my favorite scene was the Reneer-D Damon fight. It also mirrors the Otto Agon fight really well. he's obviously undermining her here but one of the things that jumped out to me about the first season was there, you know, they just had something. Just an undeniable attraction.

That uncle niece. That room with those crazy kids. But I feel like maybe the air's gone out of that balloon. Is love dead? As Joanna mentioned, not if you're Corliss and you're still fucking up a storm in your 50s and 70s. Goals. I'm in my 30s.

I can barely stand up at the end of the day. Unbelievable. You were really going off menu today. Is love dead? I think your view of incest in Game of Thrones has always been something that I think is inspired and touched the masses. You obviously really shipped Jamie and Circe Hard

in Game of Thrones. I think the question of whether this was ever like purely truly love or more like a potent combination of undeniable attraction, right? But also need and infatuation is like worth parsing because some of the real like moments of breakthrough in season one, comp,

let's never miss the opportunity to remind everyone. At Damon's wife's funeral. Oh, that's right. Right? That's when Reneera and Damon finally fuck for the first time. They're busy people. You find time in your schedule where you find it.

They basically only go to funerals and weddings. Well, no. And to the bows of a pleasure den. So in that episode, Drift Mark Reniro said, I need you, uncle. I cannot face the Greens alone. That's on the heels of each of us

is capable of depravity and more than you would believe. Their bond has always actually been acknowledging the depths of what they are capable of doing to each other, it's implied, right? But certainly to other people. So is loved dead, I guess it can only die if it lived in the first place, you know? That's what I was out. Yeah. Like, what was the nature of their attraction, I suppose.

I love the line in this fight. I mean, this fight, I agree, is... Harrowing. Oh, I was going to say it's best. But when she says to indulge the darkness, you keep sheathed, in you like a blade is something that she says to him. And something that Emma Darcy has said in interviews is that a connection that Reneer and Davin share

is their shared darkness. So the anger that she feels towards him, and I love this because in the book, we don't get Reneura's response to blood and cheese at all. So the fact that we got to see how Reneer feels about blood and cheese is something the show gifted us that the book decided was not important. Right. But her anger towards him almost then is her anger towards her own darkness.

question mark? I did like the fact that Matt Smith essentially played, to me at least, the counseled meeting and then the fight afterwards with Reneira as a coward. Like, you know, he's essentially like shirking from taking responsibility for sending blood and cheese in the first place. He says multiple times that it was a mistake. But I'm not responsible. But he kind of does it the way a 13 year old would do it, where he was just like, I said it was,

I apologize. Like, can we move off of this now? And also is kind of happy about the result, you know? like he's not sad about the fact that another green went down, right? So I think that the way that he, kind of even though he has this reputation as this great warrior, I really enjoy the fact that he's kind of this damaged young man at the same time. And I think I completely agree on what Mallory said earlier

about that age-divide, old and young, is this idea that, because Masaria says the same thing that she was chasing Damon's approval when she was younger. She's like, I've grown out of that. Reneer is like, I've kind of grown out of that. we'll get to your favorite Kristen Cole and Allison, but Olivia Cook has been saying in interviews, this is like a juvenile

infatuation for her because she never got to do that. Right? So Damon's in this arrested development spot has never left that ever. Allison's experiencing her teenage years for the first time ever. And Rineer Amasari are like, guess what, we're grown-ass adults. We don't need to do this anymore.

What I love about that so much is it entwines perfectly with this idea of how present Vassaris is. In this fight, certainly, but really how he hangs over All of this, brother, father, whatever that, like, even they argue, that's part of their argument. Damans's like, you think you know him better than me? Like, I was raised by his side. And they're arguing over some sort of right to claim, something that they cherish and reject and resent so deeply, right? It's such a tormented relationship in all respects.

And so I loved how, you know, this basically opens with Renera doing a podcast. She's just talking about what we were all talking about last week. What did you say exactly? Right? Like I need to parse everywhere. We're gonna go beat by beat, frame by frame. I felt the same way when Agon's like, who was on guard duty outside of the queen's stammer? I texted that when I texted guys. I was like, can Tom win an Emmy just for the way he shouted, oh, bed! That was also an incredible scene. But it's building toward Renera saying, do you accept me as your queen and ruler? Now, this was a trailer line. So we had already heard it. But it was one of those moments that popped so much more when you have the full context of how it rears its head. It's a little thing. But she's not saying, do you accept me as the queen and ruler? It's do you accept me as your queen and ruler? Are you ready to finally concede?

The one thing that you never could with Viseris, because that was the thing we love talking about so much in season one with Damon and Vassaros. On the one hand, we talked about last week the comp to the did you say it air for a day? When Viseras kicks Damon out of the city in the series premiere, part of what Damon says to him is like, you've only ever tried to send me away. Why didn't you ask me to be by yourself, right? to be your hand. And he says, he, meaning auto,

doesn't protect you. I would. This is actually part of what Damon wants, genuinely, to protect and serve, but he thinks he'd be better at the core thing than the person he is protecting. Something that Mallory and I talked about

preseason on a House of Our podcast was what is Damon Targaryen's love language and its acts of service? It's taking people to brothels, yeah. I mean, that too, but acts of active service. Sure. He wants to feel useful.

Yeah. So he's like, in this episode, he's like a cat that brings you a dead bird and is like, is this what you wanted? And why aren't you? I got you a Targaryian head, maybe not exactly the one you wanted. I don't get praised for this.

I get censured. And that was similar with his division with Viseris. He's like, I'm doing this for you to support you. You may not like my methods. Yeah. You have to respect. Why don't you value this? And you're not capable of it.

And that's part of what he says to Rainier here. Like, I see you will suffer the same fate. Yeah. He resented and lamented the fact that Vassaris was not capable of what Damon knew that he could do. Now, would that have made Damon a good king? I think we can agree. Certainly not. Entertaining.

An entertaining character on a television show, no doubt. But, like, when he said to the Ceres... The newspapers, you love him, you know. Headlines are plenty. Good for comedy. Good for S&L. That's right. Yeah.

You are the dragon in your word is truth. That was one of the things that he said to Viserra since season one, and he believes that in his soul and in his bones, and Reneira is carrying all sorts of other preoccupations, the burden of the prophecy considerations. Duty, would you say? Duty. I think we're definitely supposed to be, you know,

Mal and I both went to that Vassara's conversation immediately in our heads because it ends with Damon sulking off on Karaxes to Dragonstone, and this ends with a similar, you know, like just being like, Fine, I'll leave, I'll take my dragon and leave. So one of the reasons why I really like this episode was, I felt like the argument between Rainer and Damon and the argument between Agon and Otto

really mirrored each other to bookend the episode. And you've also got, like you said, Vesaris looming over all of it. Does he tell people, how is it interpreted, the sort of legacy he left? Joe, Otto and Agon, it seems to be technically about legitimacy, but I think for people who maybe don't know a ton about, like, the backstory or read the books or whatever.

How much does Otto know about what Vassaris told Allison and what was supposed to happen in the transfer of power? And what's he alluding to when he says, you know, Agon's like, he made me king and Otto's just like, ha, ha, ha, is that what you would think? He actually legitimately laughed. I was hoping that you would do an impression. Wonderful stuff. He does it, but it's more like this.

Is that what you think? I know. Some borderline palpatine-esque head turns from Otto on this episode. Very dramatic. Risi Fonz was like really letting the Welsh shine through in this particular scene. So, right, Damon says to Reneira, wisdom, virtue, like, is that why you think he put you on that you were a tool? Yeah. Otto, what's so interesting about this episode is that last season when there was a terrible murder in the castle and we needed to act, or death in the castle, we need to act quickly.

Vassaris dies in an episode nine, the Green Council, which was written and directed by Sarah Hess and Claire Kielner, who wrote and direct this episode. Minutes in, Otto's like, great to hear this from you, Allison, that he said that to you. I totally believe you. And guess what it was also really convenient? We have a plan already in place. We were ready to do it, Kim. I got it. We've gone right here. We were ready to go to do. We are ready. So we grieve for Vassaris the peaceful, but we got a plan. And then this episode, he's like, okay, Jeharis is dead and that's a bummer.

But also, we could have a grief parade and it would be really good for us. So Otto on the PR spin of how do I turn this tragedy into advancing my personal career in King's Landing or getting what I want, which is AGO on the throne and legitimized. This is just classic Otto. So, no, I don't think he ever believed. that Vassaris actually told Alicent. Yeah, I don't think, right. Like, Allison misunderstood what Viseras is talking about. He's talking about Agon the Conqueror, not her fucked up son.

But, um... Happy accident for all of them. Otto's like, this works out really well for me. So I'll pretend to my daughter that I believe her. Yeah. But guess what? Thailand Lannister has already figured out how to divvy the gold and we're off to the races. And it's only the hero Lyman Beesbury.

standing between us and all of them. This is seizure. Okay. Yeah, it's like both of them. You mentioned the Jeharis comp. Like these are kind of Otto's chaos as a ladder. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think unlike Littlefinger, he's pretty bad at it.

But did he lose his temper by undermining, like, are we supposed to read that? Did you read that scene as Agon's pushing this guy away? And I can't remember if he says the legitimacy thing before or after, he's like, you're no longer the hand. I think it's before. Before. So he says that and then Otto kind of...

Throughout the episode, he calls him an imbecile, an Egypt in a very Welsh accent, all of that. Like, he's caught, like, I'm like, okay, what's the moment where Otto lost the job? Was it when he was yelling at the grieving father? Was it, I mean, just, he's just mistakes were made by Otto across his episode. It's making it look bad when people are coming up and asking for goat security or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, there was the lariress, like, you don't want to be.

a pliable king changed last week. So, Egan has already primed for this. Like, I don't want to just be another version of my father. I don't want to be controlled. We, of course, then have the Allison to Otto conversation from last week about not their intent. Their certainty that they can

control them. And on the, like, the generation gap thing, too, I was really struck by, we're a one episode of one from Otto, like, the caprice of youth. Yeah. You know, just kids being kids who kill each. other on dragons, unfortunate, but let's all move on.

And now he realizes that he can't control any of them. And I was particularly struck not only by, I think when he says the is that what you think thing to Egon. Of course he still seems like he's like, are you joking when he tells him to remove his badge? I don't think he's actually playing out the string, much like he didn't. Let's not forget this is not the first time we've seen Otto Hightower ousted his hands. Get fired. Yeah.

Rosh stripped him of the badge in season one because of something similar. Claire Kilner also directed that episode. Yeah, like how many episodes do I get to direct where Rizufans gets fired? How long did it take you to choose yourself over your king? That was what Fasera said to him in season one. Now Roneiro was like, I need you to get rid of this guy

if we're going to work together. But Otto has just never been quite deft enough at navigating that aspect of the political game, the great game. You're in the great game now. He has the move that. he wants to make, he knows what it is, but he doesn't quite know how to shield, obscure other people from seeing it. And so when he says to Egon, like, is that what you think?

Or even when he says earlier, the legitimacy thing, like, it was a fascinating inversion of all the signs of legitimacy belonged to him, like propping up of his campaign in season one. It's like, the people look at the dragon, exploding through the pit of the dragon pit and they see an omen. Like nobody thinks that you're supposed to be here. So we have to send a herald out in front of your son's dead body. and have them call her Reneira the cruel,

and Reneer the monstrous, right? We need to work the game. But then Egon feels how he's being manipulated and deployed. He doesn't want to be a pawn on Otto's board, right? And I have to wonder if he would have noticed that as much if Larras hadn't planted that seed. Yeah, well, and the other question I had, and I didn't actually prepare you guys for this.

But one of the things I think Otto seems most surprised by is that he's probably thinking himself, well, who's going to take my job? Right. I mean, like, you can't fire me. there's no one who can do what I do, and immediately it's Kristen, right? Much to even Kristen's surprise.

Yeah, he's flummoxed. My question is this. Yeah. Is basically the head of the King's Landing Secret Service typically a spot where you then get promoted up to hand of the King? Like, historically, and even in the future, do these militaristic or like law enforcement guys, I guess, necessarily get promoted to such a strategic role ever?

There have been hands drafted. out of the Knights Watch, the Kingsguard. That has definitely happened. I wouldn't say it's the most common thing to do. Any number of different personality types, people with certain skills and abilities, people from different walks of life, anybody can be hand, ultimately, right?

It's like, who do you trust? It gets back to that key trust issue. But the thing that is crucial, I think, for us to clock about the Kristen pick is, like, the line in, we get actually, my new hand is a steel fist, we get it in the show, that's right from the book.

The continuation of that line in Fire and Blood is we are done, with writing letters. Like, this is about that young blood wanting to fight. Yeah. Enough of the diplomacy. Like, enough of the campaigning to bring people to our side.

I don't want to win people to my side. I want to win. And he's not taking a beat. Yeah, to the point where Otto has to say to Allison later, like, they're peacocks, right? It's like all brashness, it's feathers. And he's not actually wrong about this. I think that's one of the interesting things

is I often find a lot of flaws and Otto's logic or the way that he conducts himself. And certainly he just walks into those potholes that are waiting for young Jehara out in the streets and many times in this episode. But he is seeing things more clearly than a lot of the people around him. And it doesn't matter.

All of these, they can't get out of their own way. The other line that they lift out of the book, you know, into Agon's mouth in this scene is, he says, spill blood, not ink, right? Thrones are one with swords, not quills, spill blood, not ink. So this is just very much like, this is book Agon, who's like, we're done with your way of doing this.

We have dragons for a reason. Yes. Like, let's use our dragons. We've got the biggest dragon. Let's use our big dragon. And what does that equate to? Like, might, strength. What do we keep hearing from him across this episode? Like, I will not be seen as weak.

When we first see him smashing Viseras's Lego, what a symbol, right? I mean, literally crumbling and disintegrating the legacy of old Valeria. Think of how we responded and did 18 hours a podcast on Vassarish dropping one stone dragon in season one. Some of us. How about the entire royal chamber-sized Lego set of old malaria? I think me and Andy were still trying to figure out of John Krasinski was going to show up.

There's definitely actual despair for Egon. For sure. He's in mourning. Allison walks in and finds him weeping at the fire later and doesn't go to comfort him. One of the really heartbreaking moments is he says, like, my son, my little son's body. But the bulk of what we hear from him at the beginning when we first see him in the wake of this tragedy, there she sits across the bay on her rock, laughing at me. Yeah. Like, it's, it's insecurity.

Because she's not laughing. He's like, I don't want to do the grief parade, which actually masterful PR move from Otto. I don't want to do it because it makes me look weak. Right. Like, I don't want anyone to know that this happens. Which. But also, I just want to say, on the, I mean, I hate Otto.

I'm not on Team Otto, except for when he says wearily and what has Sir Kristen Cole done? Great moment. Fantastic. We're going to talk about what Sir Kristen Cole does. Oh, yeah. But Otto's PR moves

are so superior to Dragonstone where Amon and his dragon fully chomped a small child, and they took no advantage of it like politically or messaging-wise. They had a quiet, private funeral where they burnt some things.

This one, Otto, is like we're going to have the entire city come out and throw flowers for this. All right, let's talk a little bit about the new hand of the king. Your favorite. Your guy. Is it a Chris thing? It's not. It's that he is a scumbag. And I find those guys

interesting in the realm of a show that is about a lot of very morally complicated people. And Kristen, I think, is just one of those characters that because we have seeing him evolve, I guess, over the course of the two seasons. I want to know what you think is his motivating, what's the motivating moment for him that makes him feel at once so ashamed of himself but also so ambitious, Mal.

Because like, here's a guy, like, he was rejected by Renera, right, on a romantic level. He's had this essentially secret affair with Alicant for a really long time and is quite violent and quite aggressive with pretty much everybody he comes into contact with. Which violent moment are you talking about? Long list. When he beat a man to death at a wedding banquet? Yes, that was the one I was thinking. Punched Jeffrey Lonmouth's face clean off. At a pre-wedding feast. Or when he told an old man to sit down so forcefully, he... A small ball right through the temple. A small ball right through

his head. I thought that the moment where she's like, I can't remember the exact exchange, but Allison comes out the door. Kristen is standing watch and he's like, you know, it's basically... Have you told anyone, what do you take me for? One who seeks absolution, there is none for what I've done. What did he do? I think it's a, at this point, given how many years of the canon we've gone through, like Joe is alluded to, it's quite a long list.

And I think, like, you know, we... Okay, go back to season one and the origin of his selection to the King's Guard, right? Think of him and Reneera out in the Kingswood on the hunt and her asking him, do you think they'll accept me as their queen? What is he... They'll have no choice, right? never really about truly for Kristen Merritt. It's always about might and power and how those things relate to each other. And so it's interesting to hear you frame it as like he was rejected

romantically. Well, not romantically, but wasn't he like we could run away, right? But oranges. Yes. Cinnamon. Let me tell you about the cinnamon and the oranges and our life that we could live across the air I see. But he was saying, like, leave your life behind. And then that will be the absolution for how I have sullied my cloak, right? I've soiled my white cloak. It is the only thing I have to my fucking name. the cloak by just even being interested in Renewing his vow. By breaking his vow. Yeah, he broke his vow.

You're supposed to be, you know, take a vow of chastity. That's why the cloak is white. And that's why he goes to Eric, to Eric in this episode. And he's like, Eric's cloak is dirty because he was walking through the streets trying to protect the royal family. The white cloak is a symbol of our purity, our fidelity. Kingsguard, our sacred trust will you so easily sell our ancient honor. Christian's a really big projection guy.

Like, he needs to work through something. Yeah. I think, like, literally he could just get, like, an app, and that could probably, like, figure out a lot of his trauma. In terms of what, like, the origin of this is, but how it traces across time and where he is now, I think it's interesting to identify how entwined what he views as his lapses and his sins and his sullying of the cloak

and what the cloak represents to him are with Alicent. Because after Reneer rejects him, what does he do? Now, he is, like, misunderstanding the conversation that he and Alicent are having, but ultimately he confesses to Alicent. Yeah. He does. Then when he goes into the godswood to kill himself after what happens with Joffrey at the pre-wedding feast, Alicent is the one who stops him, who gives him whatever version of absolution that is possible to attain when you have done the things that he's done.

When he kills Beesbury, Sir Harold, who at that point is still Lord Commander, says to take it. Put down your sword. Take off your quote. You're done. You're out of here. But Allison's not saying goodbye to Kristen, her sworn shield, like her one true defender. And so Allison has, I would say, a palpable unceasing level of guilt and shame in this episode, too, to the point that she actually tries to confess to her father, right? I don't want to hear it. Don't want to know. Don't want to know.

Let me tell you something. Once I went into Vesaris's Chambers and I told him that his daughter had been caught coupling with her uncle in the bowels of a pleasure den. I got fired just in that same episode. And I don't really want to talk about daughters and sex lives ever again. So keep it to yourself. Same. Is your interpretation when he says, I don't care. to hear it.

He knows, though, right? Don't we believe that Otto knows what she's been doing with Kristen? I gotta say, my favorite version of what you're talking about is when Allison's like, hey, Helena, by the way, like, did you say anything crazy last night? Because I know Helena be seeing things.

And Helena's like... Do you have one of your dreams? Not in the top ten things of I'm thinking out, right? This moment. Poor Elena. But I loved the... I loved the Eric. Kristen scene, which is, like, in the book, it's so spare, like, what we know about how Eric wound up over there is so sparse.

But we know that it was Kristen's idea. Yeah. But this idea that it was like Kristen bullying him by using just, like, blatant hypocrisy and projection and backing him into this corner. My maybe favorite two characters in this episode are the two other members of the King's guard who just take their stuff and leave in the middle of this way. Absolutely incredible. They're like, this has nothing to do with me.

I also genuinely loved what Eric was like, listen, some of us actually work at night. I just want to eat my breakfast in peace. Can you be a dick at me in like six minutes? Also, why doesn't the queen have someone guarding her room, Kristen?

I loved that. Yeah. She's the queen now. You guard Allison. Why aren't guarding Helena. And so to your auto point, in that sense, like, you kind of start to wonder how would it be possible for people to not clock this at a certain point? Right. Like that Kristen is still her sworn defender, et cetera.

So let me ask you about the Allison thing. So Kristen takes Allison's dad's job and she still can't say no to this guy. The episode ends with her, like she cannot resist this dude. Is it because literally this is the only person that she can have a romantic, physical, emotional connection with in the entire realm? Or is there something about what Kristen has done and where he has wound up and now he's Agon's hand that Allison to maintain that sort of suggestion

that she might have power over Agon needs to continue to be intimate with this guy? What was so irresistible about him? I mean, you've seen him, right? I mean, you have to see him, right? right, yeah. That moment when she... He's an attractive guy.

Yeah. When she walks in and he's sitting on her bed that used to be Reneer's bed and he's just like... Sad boys. Ready for round... Armour already off. Very presumptuous. Yeah. It's like a...

It's like a I hate myself, hate fuck sort of moment, right? Just like I'm so angry and like wound up. And we had a previous scene where she takes a bath and he's on the other side of the door. She does not seem happening that bath. Yeah. They didn't do anything. You're concerned about the bathing routine. right now for Allison.

I was going to bring up Laris, because Laris would be the obvious clubhouse favorite to be in the king. But remember that, we are done writing letters. Like, Laris isn't what Egon is gravitating toward what now. No, he wants a general. But, like, on the one hand,

do we think Laris is angling directly for Otto's job? Perhaps. But on the other hand, we hear out of Agon's own mouth the very words that Laris said to him last week. He's angling for influence. And that can take many forms

and he's smart enough to know that. But, like, I think it's almost smarter to not be so in the spotlight, hand of the king, but influencing from the shadows. And I actually think Laris comes out ahead in this whole exchange. He gets rid of Otto, who is a, like, stronger, more influential force

for him to bump up against, and now it's just dumb, dumb, Kristen Cole. I'm sorry, your guy. Your guys. On the Allison front. It's not book smart, street smart, you know? It's true. On the Allison front, like,

when we're talking about shame and guilt, we also have to talk about hypocrisy. We chatted about this a lot on House of Ar. I shuddered to think how long this week's Hasevar. I actually shuddered too. I mean, Spotify's typically, like it has to have like a limit, right? We'll find out. Tune in on Tuesday night.

We'll find out. We have a lot of Chris and Coltakes to get off. But remember how Allison and she was much younger at the time, but remember how she greeted these rumors, these whispers about Renera. Yeah, about Reneera's dalliances, right? And so part of what, like even the fact that by the end of this episode, Alison doesn't appear to be wearing her signature at this point, seven-pointed star necklace anymore, like the way that we associate her with her piety and like when she is identifying some sort of like holding somebody else in judgment for a thing that she hits done. But I think she's tormented, right? She's like, and this has always been central to her character because she finds herself in a position of responsibility.

and duty. Then she goes to, grows to resent it. This is actually part of what, like, while some members of this table are not the biggest fans of Kristen Cole in terms of his, like, moral compass, obviously, there was something thrilling about seeing. Yeah, Allison, like, finally take her pleasure. Like, good for her. That's great. It's weird. I think she gets referred to as the Queen Dowager. And I'm like, that's not a Dowager? Is this a lady in the full-loom of life? It's just a title. But, so there's the fact that the so many of Alice, they make you swear and swear of it all.

For Kristen, there's the question of this fidelity, this purity, this thing that he told Reneer, like, you raised me higher than any Cole in the history of the realm, and am I compromising that? But there's like the question of just the inherent act and then what happened in tandem with that, right? So it makes me think back to Circe saying to Tyrion in season two of Game of Thrones, sometimes I wonder if this is the price for what we've done, for our sins. Jaharis was murdered in his bed

while Alicent and Kristen were fucking down the hall. Like you, it would actually be bizarre if they didn't feel that they were in some way culpable for that. I guess that also could be the other thing that he feels like he can never get absolution from. The way that he looked at the bloody mattress? Oh, God, yeah. When they picked it up and he was, like, can you move that back?

This is heavy and disgusting. Can you move out of the doorway so that I can get rid of this, please? We are going to replace one mattress and this heap at some point. Unair-conditioned King's Landing bedroom for like three days. But I think that I do think it's worth shouting out Olivia Cook's performance in that regard

because when she's like, you know, what they did to my girl, that whole thing. But also she's just marinating in her own guilt in that scene. How about that moment with, I know we're on Allison and Krista, but because you mentioned Helena, Agon and Helena passing each other on the stairs.

By the way, he has two Kingsguard with him. she has still just handmade. Still, there's no one guarding Elena, even still. I just wanted to ask very quickly, Joe, about Otto, and this is going to be one of those questions where you're probably going to be like, I can't quite answer this. Otto is he, A, a free agent?

Yeah. Is he B? Still working on behalf of the Greens and walking the earth like Kung Fu and trying to just garner more support for them? Yeah. Or three, something else. So there are,

are things that I can't talk about necessarily, but... Because it's a book reader thing. Right. But Allison does send him to High Garden. Yes. He declares that he's going to go to Old Town. And she's like, no, no. She says go to High Garden.

You're going to go to High Garden. The Tyrell Bannerman. So the Tyrells are getting a little nervous. Okay. All the Bannerman are like, wait. So House Tyrell, Marjorie Olena, you remember them. High Garden, we love them. They have a ton of money and they're a very important ally.

but all of their bannermen are like, we don't know that we're on board with this king, we don't really like it. And House Tyrell at this moment, the Lord is a small boy. So his mom was like, sure, sure, okay, yeah, yeah. Agon, sure. Actually, I don't know, all my bannermen seem to think

that Reneer is the better choice. Maybe we'll just not do anything at all. Maybe we'll... So Highgarden is wanting to be Switzerland in all of this. So what can send a consummate diplomat auto to handle the High Garden problem. What will that do?

I'm just excited that we're talking about the reach. Yeah. Like this gets back to what we talked about last week with widening of the map. We have to beg you just for a second because we're talking about this moment where auto's like I'm going to go to the whole town and out. No, please, please go. Please go to the High Garden instead. Chris.

Yeah. They mentioned Darren. The High Tower still have strength and you have a son there who will take more kindly to instruction. Darren may yet help us in the weeks to come. I got up from my couch and screamed and fist pumped like I had just watched the Revens win the Super Bowl. Because this is Allison and Vassaris's fourth child, Darren, their third son. Who has a dragon?

A dragon? He does? Yes. And they have a dragon back. They just haven't mentioned him on the show. Cessarion the Blue Queen, Cobalt and Copper. Darren the Daring. Like they haven't mentioned him.

And they're just like they're counting up their dragons. Who has how many dragons? who has the bigger dragons. This has just been an absolutely confounding exclusion from the show, or is this just like, was this supposed to be a surprise? Like, why not? I think they just didn't have room in the first season. But for even, he was all characters.

I'm like, yeah, we had to cover a decade across all of them. The fact that they didn't even mention him in season one was wild. So that he's a confirmation that he exists. Some children don't exist on this show, but Darren does. I'm thrilled. Will we get him? Does this mean we meet him this season? Is it just kind of a wink and a promise to us

he'll be entering the story in season three? I know now a level of peace that I was not sure we would reach in season two because Darren has been mentioned. I am so elated. I'm just going to let you know because we're going to be talking about milk in a few minutes, not quite yet but soon,

that Darren and Jace, milk brothers. I don't know what that. You know what that means. Yeah, you do. I mean, it might mean different things for some of the characters in the show, but Vesaris was just a classic Miseris. Same weather.

I want them to have the same wet nurse. Yeah. It was said that the king hoped to prevent any amnit between the two boys by raising them as milk brothers. This is the still final. Building models of the place he already lived and overseeing milk. Well, he never, he didn't. It was Valeria, but that's okay. But yes, he's very into milk.

Honestly, blinded by this. Let's talk about milk. I just want to talk about the Amon's, Amundstein for really Amon. The Amon's. Joe told me recently that her Google Docs auto-corrected to all-me- Targaryen? It's very funny. Difficult to shake now that I know that.

How about that? Oh, okay. So let's get into this scene where Amy is with, I would probably guess the lady of the night. It seems like he's in a pleasure. We know, we know. We've met her before. We have met her before. The matron of the brothel where Kristen in his dumb hat and Amit in his eye patch went in season one.

Okay. I'm so excited to tell you. We're sorry too. That she appears to be the person who took Amon's Virginia. At what age? 13. Thank you. Egon took him out into the streets.

And he said to him what? Time to get it. time to get a wet. You don't remember this season one? This is like, this is a core I don't remember that

I just said that but that is a line It is a line from the show. Anyway, yeah. When she showed up last season her character name

was Brothel madam as far as I know that's still her character name and I would like her to have a real name. She looked at him through the door and was like how you've grown.

Yeah, she did say that. Well, my point here is that you think. No, no, no. But the point is whatever, and she hadn't seen him in a while then. So Amon since then, since seeing her, he saw her when he was like searching for Aikon to put him on the throne.

He was like, that moment in the door. She like is making a move on him and he just goes, hmm, and turns away. And I guess he's like, guess what? Let's go back in time and rekindle this romance that we had together. I'm going to play little boy. You play mommy. But I think part of, it was, this is a little bit behind the scenes.

When I wrote the document to sort of recap the episode, I was just like, this dude is on opium. Like this guy's high out of his mind, curled up on a lady's lap, naked, got the eye patch off, feeling comfortable, you know? Just letting that-safire gleam? Let's just have an honest moment with each other.

It's just the three of us. If you were missing an eye and you had a sapphire in your empty eye socket, would you take it out during sex? Would you keep the eye patch on during sex? I think, no, you take that off. Too sweaty, right?

So the eye patch is off. Sapphire in, sapphire out. And whether I was blasted out of my mind on Milk of the Poppy. Are they post-coital, though? Because there's that odd moment where he's like, not here. Yes, not here. So then where? That's because I think he's high.

He's like, I'm all in my opium vibes. And now I'm going to curl up on you. It's definitely possible not only that you're right, but that by the time people are watching us talk about this, it has been confirmed on the inside of the episode that you are right. It's possible. That is a large goblet of Milk of the Poppy. You can't fly a draft.

You can't Mount Vagar if you're on that much milk of the poppy. Our interpretation was a little bit more that like it's an infantilizing thing. He's in the fetal position curled off. There's a history of this on Game of Thrones with Robin Aaron, like suckling from Lysa. Thanks for making that face. Ever, ever, ever. This is just so. Oh my God.

This is just so homelander coded, right, for all the boys' heads out there. Like, I'm a little baby. My mommy doesn't love me. I walk into the small council meeting. She asked why I'm there. when I was a kid and everyone was mean to me and they picked on me, which they did. They wore the pink dread because I was different.

That was actually, I thought, very touching and sad to see him be that vulnerable and admit that. And when I went to my mother, what did she say? Like, your obsession with these beasts goes beyond understanding. He's not getting from his mother what he needs. And so he's going here to drink milk and be cradled in the bosom of a matronly figure. Why can't it be?

It can. Maybe it is. Uncut, Kings landing black tar. But the thing about is. I feel like he's, other than the vulnerability of like, I do regret that business with Luke, I lost my temper that day. Other than that, that sort of odd way that he's talking is how Amon is always talking. So if you want to make the argument that he is always blasted out of his mind, I'm not against it.

I'm not against up a tolerance, like wags and body sushi on billions. I'm keeping my sapphire eye on it. Let's just put it that way. Okay. So what I loved about it regardless is just like, Amon, what did we talk about all of last week? The foil for Damon, these figures of strength, all to talk about Vagar and Amid is the greatest power in the realm.

Agon propping him up as like my best sword. And he's just like, people were mean to me. It made me think of the cruelty of children as known to all that great line from fire and blood that we love, which of course is in Amon's passage. The fact that he was able to express remorse. Now, is he sitting down at the small council chamber in episode one? No, no, no, no, no.

But I consider that a, especially in this episode, when Damon's notable contrasts. It's not my fault. Yes, exactly. What did I do, really? We spent a lot of our time on these shows comparing Amon and Damon. That is a point of distinction, which I think Warren's mentioning. Okay.

Now, he's not saying that to his family members. He's not sitting down at the Green Council last week and saying, I kind of got this whole thing started out wrong thing. I do actually feel bad about Luke. Yeah. They were mean to me, but I did not mean for it to go that way. I'm sorry, it turns out I can't control my dragon. We should all probably talk about how we think we can control all of these things that we can't.

But we talked on House of R this week about the, like comparing Amund with Jamie Lannister, where Jamie Lannister did something, gained this reputation, and then just kind of leaned into that reputation. So if Amon is swaggering around the castle being like, well, if you think I killed a small kid with my dragon, guess what? Don't mess with me. You're never going to bully me again, et cetera. And he goes scurrying off to an opium den to get high and have some motherly sex. Think of how many of our early season one season was...

Who among us? ...were with Damon in a brothel as well. Seeking some sort of like affirmation? Yes. Right? You were the wielder of Dark Sister and Ryder of Karexies. A slightly more noble depiction of mourning was Jason Bela. Dude, this scene was great.

It was so good. It almost like stands out from the entire episode of like two good... It's like, what's the Bechdel test for decent people on the show? Like, do decent people talking about another decent person? And I had a couple of questions about it. For one, was Baila just doing crossbow stuff just to keep her eyesight sharp? Or what was that about? Was there any reason to note that she was doing that?

No, other than this description from the book, which is Baila was a wild and willful young maiden, more boyish than ladylike, and very much her father's daughter. So she just likes doing stabby stuff. She is, as we alluded to earlier, about to enter the fray, though. Like, Reneera is sending her up to monitor, to fly moon dancer, to be on patrol, to be on guard. And so, in general, being prepared and ready for what awaits is, I think, wise. That was interesting, but I don't think it was nearly as interesting as the emotional substance of this conversation where they're talking about fathers.

Bela, who passed Damon in the hallway as he's making his way to dramatically exits. Barely looked at her. Pouting, right, doesn't acknowledge his own child, who, of course, in season one, was the kid that he bonded with because she, unlike Raina, was a dragon rider. So he would sit with her on Pentos and, like she'd learn at his knee, right? You want to look at these books with me, you want to learn about how special we are. And Raina's like, Dad doesn't really talk to me? And so to hear Bela say here, sometimes I think I hate him, was really interesting. Is it because of how it treats her sister?

Is it because 47 seconds rough count after her mother's funeral? He married his niece. Yeah, right. Who's to say? Is it because she walked into a room where Reneer looked just, like, very upset, and there was crockery on the ground? Looking around and seeing the wreckage everywhere. Like, that was so good.

What is even better? The J's side of it. Is the J-side of it? Because when she asks him about Lainor, she doesn't say your dad, she says, my uncle. Yeah. And then she says, Ann Harwin. She doesn't say your dad, but she says Ann Harwin Strong.

And he doesn't run from it. And it makes us. us think about the Drift Mark, episode 7 last season, when they're at the funeral for her mom, for Lena. And Jace says to his mom, we should be at Harenhall, mourning Harwin Strong. I have as much of a claim to sympathy as they do. And she says, Rinear said it would not be appropriate. The Valerians are our kin.

The Strongs are not. Look at me. Do you understand? Right. Because it was dangerous for him to, for any of them to acknowledge that Harwin was his dad. So for Bela to not say quite the words, but to say the words to him and give him space to talk about his dad, Harwin Strong, who died last season, and they're never allowed to talk about. So beautiful. Clearly in a way that indicated they have spoken of this before.

So that tells us something about the nature of their relationship. Now, stop me if you've heard this before in a Game of Thrones story. Kin who are betrothed. But this tells us that beyond the political arrangement that other people struck for them, They have an affection for each other and a trust in each other and a comfort with each other. For Jace to, like, anybody saying that out loud, and then for Jace to acknowledge that means... He feels safe. The end of the claim to the Iron Throne in almost any circumstance.

They gave the episode a humanity that maybe it would lack. I love that, yeah. And then even just the way he said, like, I miss Luke. It's those little moments of vulnerability that so few characters are able to share with each other. It was lovely. Someone talked about Luke. Some characters that were able to share something with each other. other? Eric and Eric.

Nice. Okay. We should talk about this. You're on firemen. Thanks. That was a bummer for those guys. You know, you could say, you could make a devil's advocate argument,

let's just say if you were criticizing the show, that that was like two red shirts killing one another, red shirts being like a term of like disposable characters who you'll find in like a Star Trek or whatever that just get blown up and then they have to come get them. Yeah. So I was not, like, deeply moved by it beyond the oft-used adage about Civil Wars being brother versus brother.

Right. And if this tears apart, these two guys who literally think of themselves as like two bodies with one soul, what's going to happen to the rest of this? Real accolite vibes there, by the way. But is that how you and Andy talk about each other? Yeah. No. You pawned in us!

But what did you think of that scene? Because it was obviously presented as like the set piece of the episode. I was a little, like, I was a little underwhelmed. It was well done, and I think they did a lot of work in this episode and the one before to get us to try to care about Eric and Arik. Masary is when last we met, there were two of you, a reminder last week for everyone. And like twin, there's a twin, you have a twin, your brother, your brother, we got a lot of, like, dropped mentions leading up to this.

We met them briefly last season. I think if they really wanted us to care about this, Eric and Arick, should have been characters all last season. And something that I'm observed, like we won't talk about specifics. But they ultimately couldn't have been because of the time jumps, right? True, but we could have

ultimately still the structural challenges season one that they are going to be chipping away against for a while. It's just tough because, yeah, fire and blood, a lot of these things are just sort of free sentences. Yeah. You know, and so what do they flesh out

and what do they not? What I will say, you're right about the time jump, what I will say, without getting to specifics, because that's getting to spoilers, we can already see them doing so much forward thinking in terms of when they're introducing characters

how much emphasis they're putting on certain people to build up our emotional attachment to people who will be taken away from us. Like they're doing they didn't I think do a great job with maybe baby Jahris who we met in like kind of one scene. Yeah we didn't get a lot of

speaking for me. Or the Cargall twins who we could never really tell apart even though that's a plot point obviously like I so yes. This is There was a moment where I thought that this scene could go like really crazy to Palma, where the guy who was sent to kill Renna... Oh, yeah, yeah.

That is like... Kills the wrong twin? Well, he kills the twin, but pretends basically like he killed the intruder and is like, I'm just going to take my brother. Oh, yeah, yeah. And he almost does. I guess maybe now I'm realizing this is a hot take in real time. That's why I thought this rolled.

I think it was not prepared to care about this, honestly, for all the reasons Joe is identifying. I think the Cargill twins have been here and they've been present and we have acknowledged them and made a lot of jokes about how their names are Arick and Eric and we were, I think it is fair to say, quite perplexed by the volume

of the penultimate episode of season one that was devoted to them chasing through the city to try to find Egonne before Kristen and his dumb hat and Amon and his best damoesque cloak. So that prior limitation and weakness, wait, we're watching season one episode nine and we literally

can't tell who they are because we hadn't spent time with them. We don't know who they are. They have done nothing to try to give us any ability other than the piping on a cloak to tell them apart. The bug became a feature here, right? It became not only in terms of the plot, right? And there's a line from fireblood. And Sir Eric and his brother Sir Eric were twins identical in all respects.

Not even their fellows of the Kingsguard could tell the two of the two. apart. So Sir Laurent charges into the room and he's like, which? Yeah. Which is Eric? No one can tell, including us. And so we're watching it. And the action is interesting and fun and compelling. You can track them. You have to when you're prepping for a podcast, but when you're watching it in real time, Chris, to your point, I did not know. You have a moment when the fight concludes and you're like, is Renera about to die? Well, not you don't know what one. And then he charges forward. That would be sick if this dude was like, no, I'm the, I'm the group with. But wasn't the way it ended also

kind of surprisingly thrilling. Again, I wore my Klegang Bowl shirt today to honor a cargo bowl, which I was not prepared to give a shit about. Here's what I was like, when Eric stumbles forward, having killed his twin, his brother, all of the thematic symbolic resonance for killing the mirror of you,

the other part of you, the family torn apart from within the Civil War Coms that you noted. And he stumbles forward for that moment. We don't know what's going to happen. and then the way, when he says your grace, okay, Eric wouldn't do that. So it's Eric, right?

Unless. Unless, and then you're like, what if it's a plot? Will someone ask him a question? Did you, did you come to the funeral that became a coronation? I was like, you could just step in and take his job, like Dave.

You know, like you could just get like Dave, like the Kevin Klein movie. I love that. And then he says, forgive me and impales himself because he, because I think, two things, the shame. Yeah, the shame that this happened. I do think much like they should all stop leaving their kids egg on, change up the armor for one side.

Right. Right. The shame that this happened that he put his queen who he has sworn to protect in harm's way. The guilt and turmoil over what he has been forced to do to his brother. But also, I think to your point of like, could there have been a, they'll never trust me. They'll never know. It's done. It's a rap.

He could never move forward in his life again. Unless again, they were like, what happened like this morning? I'm literally this morning. I love this works so well for Mallee. I like the scene, which I again did not really think I would. What did get me, though, is that happens in a random hallway in the book. The fact that happens in Renera's chamber and we get Renera's reaction, that did get to me. Sure.

And it's like shock and poor. It's like they've both had this breach to that extent, the intimacy of your own bed chamber. How could you feel safe after that? Probably not. And she'll probably behave accordingly. Okay, so that pretty much brings us to the end of the episode, more or less. We have some Agon crying, Allison not really nurturing him very much instead tending to her own needs. You know, you've got these replacement hands.

Are we missing anything that I forget anything? Did you clock Seas Smoke? C-Smoke circling Allen of Hall. C-Smoke flying above in Adam of Hall. That's what I just thought was like this dude wants to be a part of what's going on here. Well, it's good for us to remember, you know, C-Smoke is one of the dragons who Damon lists specifically in the season one finale when he's doing his dragon math. And he says that C-smoke resides on Drift Mark. So like we see, we're with Adam as he's working his way through the sand on Drift Mark,

and we see, oh, yeah, C-smoke, here he is on Drift Mark. So always nice for us to remember which dragons are in the story where they are. So lovely to see C-Smoke, love C-Smoke. Alan and Adam having a, like, important conversation that we still. Yeah. Does he get them? Yeah, yeah, you, with carrots. Brother, he owes us.

He owes you, he owes us. Right, so we're getting a little bit more of an illusion to what's going on between the people. What does that mean? What is all that? And then Hugh Hammer, they dedicate a whole... We went home with you. I was like, I can't believe this. We went home with you.

And I think what's important, there's... Hugh's wife is also in the grief parade. We see her in the crowd. And I think what's important to note the way the crowds can be swayed one way or another and the way that the blockade is impacting Kings Landing in terms of getting medicine and food for your children.

How hard was it to find the chicken? Yeah, no other reason to go home with Hugh Hammer, I think, than to like, get as primed for, again, to the brothel madam, I hope she has a character name by the end by the time this episode comes out to the brothel madam's point, when princes lose their temper, who suffers the small folk.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. What else? Quickly, Dragonstone Library, gorgeous. If I could go to one fictional location that's shooting up my list, that was incredible. And inside of that library, before, I'm surprised the whole episode today, wasn't about the conversation between Mastaria and Reneira, Chris, given that Miseria.

I mean, I thought she basically was like spurred by Damon's cowardice to be like, I'm not going to be like this guy, I'm going to like keep my worry about this. And Masari is like, you want to hug out these scars? Yeah. She does not want to share that. She is not definitely not ready to share that information. But yeah, like there was the comp of Reneira, you know, Masaria having her, I was in your, once I was in your thrall, but no longer moment last week.

And that's sort of where Reneera gets in this episode. But also, because Reneer doesn't recognize her at first, she's literally circling her like an inch of way. But, you know, that moment, what ultimately leads Renira to honor the word of her house and let Masaria go, so that Masari can eventually clock Eric and go, sets down the alarm. I think it's the Damon Auto High Tower makes no difference. They will never accept me. I might as well have remained a whore line. So that feels like that's the thing that where Masari was able to break through to Renera,

and that's something that like is pinging true for Renera on a deep, deep level. And I think the third point on that triangle, is Rainey's in this episode. Rainey's talking about... Rainier's sort of most stalwart supporter. We see the Black Council sort of... Reneer's counsel sort of talking over her. Rainey's in Corliss in bed

before they talk about their preferences... But neither can he allow her to command him? Pity. But she's like... I have on occasion found that to be quite enjoyable. She's like, I've been passed over for the Crown. Yeah. I know what this feels like.

We got to keep our eye on Damon and we have to support Rainira in this. And so that idea of like Masaria, Reney's also Alicent, like these women in various stages of power being ignored, tucked over, etc. is a constant. Renira, the book that she opened,

we see Egan, Vesena. Oh yeah, she's like, the conquest. She's really grinding around. And then she turns... She turns the page and it's Vesnia and Veyagana. And she's holding Dark Sister. So she has in her hand, Dark Sister, one of the fable Valerian Steel Swords of House Targaryen.

And that is the sword that Amon wields, of course. Never forget when it was coated in your guy the crab feeders, grace-scale, laced blood. But on Vagar, of course, Amon's dragon. So the idea of Damon and Amon being present and connected to this one crucial figure in Targaryen history. And you feel like that is on for nearest mind if she's looking at that page. You love an illuminated manuscript. I do.

Yeah. Beautiful. Beautiful. Let's wrap it up there. That was episode two of House of the Dragon. That's episode two of Talk the Thrones. We'll be back next Sunday right after House of the Dragon ends. You can watch us on...

You're probably watching us on the Ringerverse YouTube channel, but you should hit subscribe if you haven't already. You can listen to us on the Ringers House of Our feed, so that's on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. You can watch us on Spotify as well. Thanks to Joe, thanks to Mal. Thanks to everybody who worked on the show. We'll see you next week.