House of R - 'House of the Dragon' Season 2, Episode 3 Reactions | Talk the Thrones

Episode Date: July 1, 2024

Chris Ryan, Mallory Ruben, and Joanna Robinson are here to discuss blood feuds, burned-out castles, and secret meetings that are all throughout the latest episode of 'House of the Dragon'. Hosts: Chris Ryan, Mallory Rubin, Joanna Robinson Production: Jack Wilson, Chris Wohlers, Nick Kosut, Tony Perry, Bobby Gibbons, Cory McConnell, Arjuna Ramgopal, Steve Ahlman, John Richter, Aleya Zenieris, Jomi Adeniran, Jordan Bathe, Abreanna Corrales and Yvonne Wang Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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See terms at Fandul.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash herms. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 U.S.-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum Business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. Hello and welcome to Talk the Thrones. We are here to break down the third episode of the second season of House of the Dragon. I am here with Ringer's senior staff writer Joanna Robinson.

I'm Chris Ryan, by the way. And we are also here with the Heron Hall Mildew Inspector herself, Mallory Rubin. Guys, before we get into the episode, just a little bit of admin, there's another live show coming up. I will tragically not be taking part. You're invited. Well, maybe I will. but it's going to be at the Elray Theater in Los Angeles. It's the Ringerverse crew, so House of Arb,

Midnight Boys, Men Edition, et cetera. And that's going to be at the LRA on July 17th, go to the ringer.com slash events, or the LRA website for tickets. Come hang. The live show we did this week was amazing. It was awesome. Thanks everybody for coming out.

Thank you. Joanna Robinson. Chris Ryan. House of the Dragon Episode 3, second season. Yeah. New locations. Yes. New characters.

Yes. Dragon patrols. Yes. And a secret meeting and a sept, holy shit. Holy shit. That's my question. I know. We have a lot to talk about today.

I took my cue from Agon, as I think we all should, and I've hired my three favorite bros to join the staff here today. Did you guys add that decapicated toddler to the opening credits like I asked you to? Great stuff. Thanks, guys. Mal, what's like the newspaper comes out on Monday? What's the headline about House of the Dragon? Because there's no other news.

I think the headline is how much you loved this episode. Gonna focus on that, certainly. I loved it. We are so excited to just like, Joe, we're going to lean back today. Oh, yeah. We're kicking up our feet. We're relaxing. Oh, you're letting me cook today.

It's time for Sierra to kick in the Dragonfire. But the theme of the episode, which we're going to talk about a lot today, is this idea that we heard from Simon Strong. We hear it from Renice to Renera. We hear it from Renera and Allison. Sin, baguette Sin. Is it too late? Can you even remember where this war that is about to embroil. everyone and everything even started.

I know. Let's recap it all, and then we can just break it down. So let's get into the recap. Can't wait. All righty, first off, we meet the Brackens and the Blackwoods. Two families standing out in a meadow at what will become the site of the burning mill, which I learned about last week. Genuinely thrilling.

These two Riverlands families have squabbles that predate the greens and the blacks, but have taken up arms for opposite sides of that cause just the same. at the standing room only Eric and Eric funeral. That's not nice, Chris. It's not, but neither is what they did to one another. Reney's counsels Reneera and urges her to find a non-nuclear solution to the approaching Civil War. In King's Landing, Kristen Cole has lost the locker room. Did he ever have it?

Just as he takes on more responsibility as Agon's hand of the king. In his first small council meeting in the new gig, he calls his own number and convinces Agon a dragon-free raid of Harenhall will end the war quickly. Yeah. Is the entire talk to Thrones episode today about Kristen's new haircut? Because if not, it should be. But what about the necklace? You have talked about the hand of the king necklace?

It's the necklace that sets the whole outfit. It really is. Westeroosey LinkedIn is a buzz with the hottest job in the realm, Master of Whispers. Renira drafts Mysaria, Massaria, and Agonnebbs, Laris. Both of whom seem born to do it. Reneera is doing a lot of chess piece moving. She sends Raina, her stepdaughter, off to points of fraud, and cousin. Off the point abroad with her children and her dragon eggs,

because if all this goes sideways, someone's got to continue the family business. Raina is initially bummed about this since her sister gets to be a one-woman Air Force for the Blacks, but comes to recognize the importance of her role. What this show really needed, apparently, was a dark and stormy night, and that's what Heron Hall provides. Damon arrives on Carraxies and finds an incinerated former fortress occupied by Sir Simon Strong, who you mentioned, basically the de facto landlord-stander. super of the whole spot.

Catsville. And waiting for Damon is a plate of age venison, some haterade about Lara Strong. No red currents, though. Like a travesty, no red currents. I'm devastating. I mean, you're such a top chef enthusiast. It must of it you are.

It's a fly chain. It's just getting crushed. The blockade is hurting everyone. There's also a mysterious woman who will later spend some time in Damon's dreams. Back on Kings Landing, Kristen got a Westerosi take on the George Clooney Caesar.

And he musters what army he can to march on the Riverlands. He is joined by a new cast member, our beloved Freddie Fox from Slow Horses, playing Allison's brother Gawain. He seems like a bit of a prick, but Bailas Dragon scares him straight. Definitely scares him into needing some new small clothes.

Reneira has got opinions coming out of her fucking ears in this one with a bunch of guys telling her to fight and flight. She's starting to take Renice's suggestion of peace talks more seriously. With her lover on the march to war, Allison is back at King's Landing, chatting with her daughter Helena, who is processing the murder of her child in a pretty unique way.

Big thing to know here is that Helena forgives Allison for boning the head bodyguard. Also has a bunch of crickets in cages. Yes. Playing with bugs. There's a lot of compare and contrast work, as Mal alluded to being done in this episode, current and past royalty getting juxtaposed,

Reneira and her great-grandfather, Jaharis, the conciliator. And the old king. Agon and the first king of the seven kingdoms, Kingdom's Agan the Conqueror is wearing his armor. Speaking of inherences, we have a bastard.

Or at least someone who claims to be one. We meet Ulf, a guy who likes to tell stories for pints. He claims to be the bastard son of Baylon the brave, brother to Damon and Vassar's uncle to Reneer and the wettest whistle in the seven kingdoms. Seems like an amazing hang.

Something tells me this guy is going to be important. You know what else is important? Full frontal male nudity. Representation matters. We get an absolutely startling view of a splendid Avon Targaryen after his petting session with

his mother figure concubine Sylvie is broken up by his drunk king brother You didn't mention the blowjob can shame shame on you That's true I'm sorry And do you think this is why they call him Amid one eye?

Damon has a dream where he is told he will die at Harren Hall's Weirwood tree by the strange woman who was haunting the dinner table earlier that evening You love to have that kind of clarity Absolutely. A chill exchange. A vision board.

Knowing she needs to do something before shit literally goes up in flames, Reneira and Misaria figure out a way for her to meet Allison and talk turkey, she finds the Dowager Queen lighting candles for the dead, and they have a staggering encounter where they realize both of them are right and wrong, and it is tragically too late for peace. That is the recap. Incredible work, CR. Thank you.

As for usual. Does that count as Mallory hitting her? Her requisite word? Oh, no, I'm a feeling that was going to keep it rolling. Right. Let's just start here. We usually get right into plot points and stuff like that. Yeah.

This is my favorite episode of the series so far. Tell us. Of the entire series. Of the entire series so far. Tell us why. It was written by a guy named David Hancock, who has done work on the Crown in the past, and it occurred to me that I need the show to be the crown with dragons.

That is a really good outcome for this thing. I thought the dialogue was crackling. I thought the staging was more lively, and lived in and naturalistic. I thought even things like small council meetings that we've been in over and over and over again, like the one between the greens where Allison is kind of like looking out of the corner of Rai, Kristen,

and then she's looking down at Aymann, and then she's like looking at Agon. It's like you could feel all the cross currents of electricity going on in that table. We're going to talk about a bunch of different scenes, but I just wanted to say, even taking out the incredible last scene, I thought this was an amazing episode,

and then it just peaks with something, that I don't think we knew was coming. No. Because it's not in the books at all. Okay. So... This big undercover mission. Should we talk about the last sequence? Do you want to talk a little bit about just the overall quality of the episode? Yeah, I mean, I loved this episode. It's my favorite

I'm going to wait before I declare it my favorite of the series, but it's definitely my favorite of the season so far. And I do think it's interesting. I agree with you. Even taking out that last part, it still would be my favorite. But we've been talking for the last couple weeks about these big book reader moments, blood and shees,

Cargill twins, and these big action pieces that the show was trying to hit at the end of the episode to leave you with this like, dun-da-da-d-d-feeling. I love that this ended with this conversation and something that the book readers did not know was coming. I thought it was incredible and compelling and left me more excited and agitated and mesmerized than the big book reader events that I was expecting in one and two, What do you think, Mallory?

I think it also is an episode that you feel the confidence and command of the plan. Right? There's like what works so well inside of this episode in a vacuum, but even hearing you talk about how the council scenes were so riveting to you, like we talked last week about how the fissures inside of each faction were just as important, as the divide between the greens and the blacks. You feel right away how true that is in an episode like this. You can't have, this is something that the three of us have been talking about,

since we had the pleasure of watching this wonderful episode together, you can't have a scene like Allison and Rainera at The Sept ultimately work as well as it did if we didn't understand their history together, which was like for a lot of viewers, I think it's fair to say the mileage varied on how successful the structure of season one was in terms of the time changeover, the time jumps, etc. But if you hung with it, then this is going to be an incredibly rewarding payoff because you understand the history for the families, for the realm, but also for each of those people inside of those moments and those conversations. Everything they're bringing that candlelighting. Even those other moments, we talked with us in previous weeks, but blood and cheese

and the cargo bowl, both, I think, suffered a bit from the way the season one was paced in that we didn't get more time with, I don't know how much more time we wanted with Jeharis, but we didn't get more time with him. We get more time with the Cargill team. I wanted to see him in Thailand. What's your favorite episode of Bluey, man? Let's get that bony ride. Yeah, are you a baseball enthusiast? This might come in handy later. So, like, I think those, for me, suffered a little bit so that we could get this, like,

masterpiece. It was an incredible scene, so let's just break it down. So, like you said, Joe, a couple of the things that have happened this season, Cargill's, Like, we've, you've known it was coming if you were readers of the text, right? Yeah. What was your reaction when, when it becomes apparent, like, Reneer is going to get into this septon? She's dressed up as this. Yeah.

I just lost my mind. Reneira, impersonating a septa and septa. Septa Reneira is one of the best things I've ever seen in my life. Oh, my God. Emma's face is just bashing everything up all the sleeves. When Masaria is like, hey, here. there's the plan. I was like, they're not really going to do this, are they? And then they did it. And I think a big piece of this, and this is something that we talked to Ryan Condal about in our series

preview podcast on House of Our, what a great podcast, was this idea that, you know, we love watching Emma Darcy and Olivia Cook together. Or we love watching Emma Darcy and Matt Smith together. And when the plot pulls them apart, what do you as a showrunner do with that chemistry that you found, like, how do you figure out how to get them back together? And he was basically like, we've got some knives up our sleeves, we'll see. And this is like, yeah, exactly. He didn't say that. But like, this is one of those moments where it's like,

there's a version of this story where we don't see Reneira and Alicent in a room together this season, you know, possibly who's to say? And like, the fact that they engineered this moment to make that happen, to give us these two actors who work so well together and these two characters who care about, about making a connection together. I don't care at all that this isn't in the book.

And in fact, something that Mallory and I've talked about a lot is this idea that in this point in the book, Reneira is a bit off the board in terms of, and like her, the black council was certainly like trying to make that official in this episode. They're like, Maya, just secrete you away. We'll be a distraction. You go take a break.

But there's like a couple passages in the book where they mention her being so broken by what happened with Luke, like who can blame But it's all quite gendered the way they talk about it. Like here's one. The death of her son, Luceris, had been a crushing blow to a woman already broken by pregnancy, labor, and stillbirth. And they're just basically like, Reneira's not involved.

And so a couple things they've done already, Renira looking for Luke's body is one. And then this mission impossible to King's Landing is another is a way to keep Reneira in the plot and active. But from the point of view of her counsel, she's absent. Yes. I love that aspect of it specifically, because this episode, we're going to talk in a few minutes about the Simbe Gets Sin idea more, but all of that falls under the umbrella of point of view and perspective, right?

And so to put Allison and Renera in this setting that ports us back to when maybe they were able to, if not see the world exactly the same way, at least share in unvarnished fashion their perspective with each other, right? You're my confidant. You're the person I can go to. Allison, I'm going to bring you Reneer here and teach you how to pray, teach you how to find some peace and closeness. And this for Renira is what action looks like in a way that nobody else would really understand, to Joe's point. And that fits the character so well because, like, think of how she received the news that they had usurp the throne at the end of season one. And that harrowing fight with Damon who wanted to go to war, who just like her counselors who were still present at Dragon Zone was advocating the dragon math and the action. And Renera was talking about the Song of Ice and Fire, which will come up again momentarily here.

and the fact that she had a different pledge that she had to carry. So there are these aspects of like the burden and we think of Alicent in particular as a character who speaks often of duty. And so like for them to be sitting there together each carrying this mission inside of them, Reneer not having given up yet,

not actually having accepted that this terrible fate has to before all of them. I'm making my points here. Like not giving up on place and everything, but also being like by the... the way you're usurper and you stole my inheritance. I've begun that. It's a good note.

Yeah, it's a good note. I think the line that... Even holding the knife, right? Yeah, but it was so awesome because it was like... Allison slashed her with the dagger. Yeah. Like, everything ports us back. Everything in that scene takes us back to a memory.

We were talking about this earlier, but I don't think... I don't think it's a coincidence that Millie Alcott complained young Reneera is in this episode, even though she's in Damon's storyline. That's just reminding us of Rennira as... a girl. But then also that line that she says in this exchange, my dragons are restless, they smell battle. Like we've seen sea smoke, like, cooing and cawing

and cawing off the coast of Dragonstone. Lonely. But also, she's talking about the men around her. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Damon's off conquering a castle as we speak. He's trying to get that thing insulated. It's going to be tough. Once the mold gets in, it's really tough.

Let me ask you about the song of ice and fire, which is basically the thing that comes up at the end of their scene. I thought that was amazingly well played because there are certain times in shows, but specifically in Thrones where you think a prophecy is going to make this huge difference. Or people understanding, like, you know, the mythology that they're living in

would make this huge difference to their actual actions and it turns out it doesn't. Turns out Allison's kind of like, yeah, but like it's too late. You know, like the ball's rolling down him. Or does she? Like, my reading of that was that Allison believes Renira and believes that she may have gotten the Agon part wrong, but is also like too much blood's been spilled since that moment for us to just be like, hey, guys actually misread that dream, let's run it back.

The way that Olivia Cook choked out, the conquer? The conquer? I never, I don't know about you, I never thought we would get this. Oh, no. Ever. Not just them being together in this. exact point of the story like this, but the acknowledgement that this great misunderstanding is at the heart of this.

And we've been talking about this a lot on House of Arr, and I think we share the same perspective on this, because I think some fans of House of the Dragon were unhappy. With the end of episode 8 of season one and the idea that the dance would, well, it's, I think, part of what this episode is trying to tell us is it doesn't hinge on any one thing, which again, we'll talk about more, but that the dance hinged in part at least on a misunderstanding. A misunderstanding or something that an adult, decrepit, wilting, dying Vassaris said as he's like... Vassaris continues to catch strays from you. Loft it off and swartle coil.

Well dead. Keep your house in order, Vassaris. Leave him. We don't have the dance. That's all. But to make it active text, to make it something that the characters then have to confront, is incredibly dramatically compelling. And this, much like Amand and Vagar, like the lack of control, it feels all of a piece with the theme. the hubris of control, which we're going to keep coming back to,

because it is a central thesis of the show. And this idea that mistakes aren't just dramatic conveniences when you're scripting an episode of TV. They're human. And the characters who are positioned as closer to gods than all of the other figures in the world make mistakes just like everybody else. And that heightens the tragedy.

We've been talking about this about the people who are upset that these have been like crazy, wacky misunderstandings, you know. we prefer to start our characters in this very human place. It's very human for Alicent to have had this misunderstanding. And then watch her sort of scrabble herself back in the corner of just sort of doubling down. Does it matter that I made that mistake even like it's too late, Reneira? Well, okay. You know?

And I don't think that Alicent is done processing this. But I think the vibe from this conversation is like whether or not I made a mistake. These mistakes compound and compound and compound. Yes. And so it can start his mistake, but, you know, Amon might have mistakenly lost control of Vagar at the end of last season, but what will he do on Vagar next? Can you tell people that?

Yeah. Are you Sylvie? The idea that she's going back and is going to write at all at King's Landing email is highly unlikely. Did you have a favorite part of that interaction? Actually, I did, which was the almost childlike fun that Emma was having as that character when they were like,

I guess I'd kill you first though. I started bad. I started poorly. That was like kind of a funny teenager thing to say in that circumstance and in contrast with I think Olivia Cook kind of lets out a laugh which is just like, what are you doing?

She's almost like I can't believe this. She's astonished by what I'm holding. And that's what I was kind of talking about with this episode as a whole. It's like there's weird. weird stuff happening in this episode where it's like, these people are actually acting a little bit more like people and a little less like archetypes and like, here we are and I'm in my corset and the dragon.

It's like, no, it's like, this is really weird. You got a knife to me, but I actually like you and we're trying to figure this out. And they're both actively in mourning, and so that makes it such a fitting setting too. Because what are you doing there? You're lighting the candles for the dead. And they're mourning their relationship

and their friendship and everything that was shattered. A being mothers. And it's so funny because it's not funny, it's kind of sad. That the only place she can find peace, and that Reneer knows that Allison will be alone, is giving a shit about anybody who's died, because no one else is going to go light candles with her.

Well, and that was the other, I think, really palpable theme in this episode, is the loneliness and the isolation. That's what made that sea smoke moment. Like, I was like on the verge of tears when it's like, maybe he's lonely, because remember Lena and Vassaris? Even dragons get lonely. And it's just like, And Reneer, like, Damon's gone.

Yeah, exactly. And the kids are heading to the veil. Yeah. Jace is still there. Bail is still there. Reneer is there. Masaria come on in. We have people around us, but like, do you have comfort and understanding?

Do you have companionship that you can rely on? And so, yeah, it's an episode about solitude. And the idea that dragons can get lonely has always struck me as, like, I don't know, so deeply profound, because, again, it connects to their idea of power. And these characters are all striving to attain power to hold on to it. I just have to tell you, I cannot get the image of Seas Smoke doom scrolling and blood wearing pajamas and being like, oh, I'm going to get delivery. Stroking is goate as goatee. I definitely think.

Yeah, Seasmoke is more of a TikTok guy. Watching Cat news. An IG Reels guy. Probably more because they want to eat the cat, not because they think it's cute. Sorry. I like that. Why would you do that? At the table of cat lovers.

Why? Well, I just want to say, I think one thing that you're responding to is certainly something I respond. or certainly something I responded to. Like, Mal just said, like, oh, yeah, a real funny episode. But, like, I mean, it is. Because Freddie Fox is here. Yeah. Tom Bennett is here.

Simon Russell Beal is here. These are all incredible, iconic. It's a very witty episode. But, like, it's, and this is something, again, Condal talked to us about, about intentionally casting those kinds of actors who can inject humor into something that's getting darker and kids are losing their heads. Things are getting worse and worse and worse and worse. It had, like, Dinkludge and Charles Dance vibes.

Yeah, exactly. I can read this stuff backwards. Let's actually make it sing a little bit. Okay, so you've mentioned a couple of times, Mal the Sin to get Sin thing. Yes. That was a Sir Simon Strong quote. Yes. Everyone forgets or differs on who struck first.

All that matters is who strikes hardest. So we've got the Blackwoods and the Brackens, which almost immediately starts getting conflated. It's like, well, actually they were beefing before that. This goes back years, whatever. Renier and Renis's synopsis of the fight so far. where Rainis is doing this really effective thing of being like, was it, or was it this, or was it that? It was a good recap of the series so far.

And is it going to matter? They will not even remember what it was that began the war in the first place. Yeah, and Alison and Renira basically do the same thing. You know, like, Renese's talked Renera into like the idea of peace, but as soon as they sit down, the only thing it is is erring of grievances. I loved this. Like, I feel like a broken record for returning to that. Vesneras quote from the series premiere so often, but watching this episode, this was not just the theme of this episode.

It's like, this is the theme of the series. This is the theme of the dance. This is what the creators are interested in interrogating. When Viseras told Reneira that he was making her air and brought her, where were they standing? In front of the skull of Belairean, the Black Dread. And he said the idea that we control dragons is an illusion. There are power men should never have trifled with one that brought Valeria at's doom. If we don't mind our histories, it will do the same to us.

Are any of these characters minding their histories? Their ancient history? Their recent history? The reason that Burning Mill is so wonderful, not only as a starting point for this episode... That's the first scene where the Brackens... Yes, the Brackens and the Blackwoods. It hits on a lot of what we've been talking about

the prior two weeks. The map is wider. We're going to meet new houses. We're going to be elsewhere in the world. We're going to talk more about the Riverlands later today. But it hits that theme by taking us outside of just... the royal bedchambers or the halls of power in Dragonstone and King's Landing.

And it reminds us how true this is for human beings, right? Like the Blackwoods and the Brackens who are standing in front of that mill on that field by those boundary stones, don't remember why the first members of their respective houses started feuding centuries ago. No one remembers. They just know that they're supposed to hate each other. And that's actually more scary. The cattle-reasing thing is, you know.

Yeah, you got to pull those bellies. Do it on your own grass. Don't move it on your own grass. Not if you see Yellowstone, but that doesn't come up with it all the time. First of all, how dare you? You do know that I've seen Yellowstone, and then I'm happy to head to the Dutton Ranch with you whenever you'd like. But I love this idea when we think of control. Because, like, there's the hubris of control, but the Alicent moment saying it's too late is almost the opposite.

It's almost like conceding when you don't need to. That it's too late to try to control or fix anything. And if like... Well, she and Otto have had that moment several. times where it's just like it's going to come to war, it's going to come to violence. I know, but what flavor? And remember Otto back in episode five of season one saying basically like, if you don't prep Agon's rule, then you're going to have to cleave to Rainer's mercy.

And here is Renera in front of her, giving her that chance. And she can't allow herself to take it, which is just devastating. And like, if the characters don't, it's not even a question of remembering so much as agreeing, right? For every person, the answer to when did the dance start? to when did the feuding between the brackens and the Blackwoods start is going to be different. And so if you can't agree and you don't think you have to say sorry, and you can't concede to yourself or to other people that maybe you're not in control of your dragon,

maybe you're not in control of the people that you would claim to rule or lead, at a certain point the only thing you really understand is that you're afraid to lose the power that you gained or that you think you should be able to. And there's no way to move forward from that. I think such a telling moment in that exchange between Alison and Renira is when Allison says her father has left the castle. And this is the second time we've heard her say it because Otto has been fired twice from the castle.

And so this idea, Allison feels so vulnerable. Like Otto getting fired, Kristen going off to war, that idea of the ephemeral nature of power for her and how she really feels like she needs to, cloak herself in it or else what. Otto has been whispering in her ear for years. Like, they're going to kill your kids. They're going to kill you.

You're a threat. You know, it's curtains for you. Whereas we know Roneiro would not do that to Alicent, but she's operating with all of these other voices in her head. And it's just, it's a tragedy to watch her scrabble back into this position when she knows she's wrong. And it's too late. Yeah, absolutely.

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Don't miss Sol de Janeiro's limited edition perfume mist collection only at Sephora. One of the things I thought this episode really hammered, which I really appreciated, was this sort of the unwritten nuclear arms treaty that I didn't really kind of grasp, I think, because I think, you know, you have Game of Thrones when the Dragons are born, it's this hugely significant moment

because they've been extinct for a long time, right? And the dragons, like, when they get brought out on Game of Thrones, it's a big deal. House of the Dragon kind of flips that, and it's like dragons are around, dragons are a reality, these people control, quote-unquote, dragons, or these people don't, or whatever.

But this was an episode where I thought they actually reckoned with like, everybody thinks that this is just going to be dragon on dragon warfare and perhaps it will come to that. Yep. But like...

We haven't gotten there yet. We have to do everything we can to stop that. So you've got all these people in small council meetings urging their kings or queens to say, hey, just send the dragon. Like let's wrap this up tomorrow.

And they're like, if one... As soon as we pull that trigger, yeah. It's... They're going to pull their trigger to and we get into fail-safe. So, Joe, what did you think of the sort of the Oppenheimer aspects of this? I love that.

I mean, there's a couple things that I was thinking of. I was thinking of, well, like, season one, Reneira, and how far she's come from who she was when she was a kid, and, you know, they're asking Vassaris, like, why don't you just send your dragons here or there? Why don't you send us to the stepstones? Like, you've got dragonriders, use us. You know, and Viseris is counseling, like, no, we can't do that, right?

It isn't that simple, Reneer. It would be a show of force. Like, once you do that, it's over. And the fact that Reneer has absorbed that lesson, but Damon certainly hasn't, is like an interesting case study in the two of them. But then you think further back, forgive me as I invoke season seven of Game of Thrones, but you have to think about Dineris when she comes, you know, when she's there in Dragonstone, and she has her counsel with her,

and it's like Elena and Alaria and Tyrion's there. And Tyrion does not want to take the dragons to King's Landing because he's like, my sister's there. I've got family there. I care about that. Let's not do that. Dineris blows a huge advantage that she has opting not to take the dragons

immediately to King's Landing. So that was not the move there. She would have done well to listen to Elena to tell her to be a dragon, right? Everyone should have listened to Elena. But that fear of, I do not want to be the Queen of Ashton, is what DeNaris says in that scene. Right. Right.

And Rainira has even better cause than DeNaris to not want to torch King's Landing. Because she is a possession of the knowledge of the prophecy. She is knowledge of the prophecy. But also, I think, crucially, I mean, she cares about Helena, I would say. She cares about Allison. Like, she does not want to destroy. Agon, she doesn't give a shit about. Amen, she's already asked for his head, I'm sure.

But there are people in Kings Landing that she does not want to destroy. Like a Game of Thrones started in such far-flung places, like north across the sea south with Kings Landing. Yeah. This is much more compressed. Like, these people are not that far away from one. For right now. They're doing patrols.

Kings Landing and Dragonstone are... To your point, it's like if you burn Kings Landing or burn Dragonstone, you're burning like the second city over, basically. It's not like, you're like, oh, we can just go back up north and, like, we've taken care of this. It's like, no, you're talking about, like, your neighbors, essentially. Yeah.

I thought maybe we could keep on the military tip here. I love military talk. I know. Well, or strategic talk, because I think casual viewers will have heard the word Harenhal. They remember maybe it pops up in Game of Thrones. It pops up. It pops up heavy.

But I've never seen it look like this, I don't think. Yeah. Have I? Not quite. I mean, we've seen it. We were there in season one. But we haven't seen it in the rain, in the dark. We haven't dined on that aged venison.

Yeah, all the nooks and crannies. The not poisoned peas. I love a haunted mansion. I hope they never shoot this place in daylight again. Yeah, this was just fantastic. It was an awesome sequence, and I thought it was one of those things in a show where you're like, I didn't know I needed this until it happened. I didn't know I needed, like, is this place kind of like maybe beyond reality a little bit

or like the land that time forgot kind of? Yes. Yeah. But Heron Holland specifically the Riverlands, which is where the Bracken and Blackwood. Yeah. Yeah. Fight happens. I thought maybe for our viewers who are not super well versed in the text.

Yeah. Giving us an understanding of where this is and why this is such a crucial location in the whole of Game of Thrones, but specifically for House of the Dragon. You want to zoom out and then in? Yeah, let's do that. Okay. So let's zoom out, which is that at the top of the map is the north. That we know, right?

Below that is the veil. Yeah. And Jace came back to Reneer and says, guess what? I got the North, I got the veil. We got both of those things. We're done. Lady Jane Aaron, quickly, in case she doesn't come up again today, Lady Jane Aaron, when we talk about negotiators and master negotiators saying,

yeah, sure, I'll agree. Bring me a dragon. Give me a dragon. But Renier is like, here's two baby dragons. And I was Storm Cloud. Storm Cloud. Yeah. But do you think Jan Aaron was like, send me two infant dragons and a clutch of eggs?

No. Hatch thing I think was used a little liberally here, because there were at least five dudes carrying Tyraxies Crete. Okay. At least. Only two for Starclad. The North Vale. The Riverlands and then the Crownlands.

And the Crownlands, as you mentioned, this is where Kings Landing and Dragonstone are super close to each other. And Castorley is down there too? Casselie is down lower. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the idea that Jace has secured armies in the North and the Vale, but you got to get through the Riverlands to get down to King's Landing. And the riverlands is full of what?

Rivers. And there are castles perched on those rivers and you can't just waltz through the riverlands without getting the consent of all the people who live in the riverlands. So strategically, and this is true in Game of Thrones and it is true now, strategically it's very important to make nice with like, let's say, the phrase.

I don't want to marry the free girls. The phrase who live at the twins, you can't cross the green fork without making nice of them, so you have to figure it all out. A lot of taxes being paid here. Exactly. And why it's so complicated, we'll talk about Heron Hall. To exact their toe.

Why it's so complicated, we'll talk about Heron Hall in a second, but like the Tullies, who get a mention here and we know very well from Game of Thrones, the Tullies, give me a second. The Tullies are the like the lords of the Riverlands, even though Harenhaw is the biggest castle. Okay. They're in charge, but their lord is ancient. Was ancient at the council of 101, which is what we saw in the pro-law? Like, this guy is, like, barely animated. Yeah. He needs, like, some image rehab assistance.

Because Ironrod is, like, he couldn't control his cock in a conny. Yeah, that's right. And then Simon is like... Doesn't have a seal on his bowels. He can't steal his bowels. Can't steal his bows. Like, these are the first things that people think to say about Grover Talmy. This guy, Grover, and his kin, Elmo, and Kermit, and that's all real that George R. Martin wrote in a book.

Yes, it's true. It is correct. Grover, Elmo, and Kermit Tully. This book was going to be a big deal or anything? Was he just like, I just like to have a little fun. He's like to have a little fun. Plus his little jokes. The Tullies should have like control of the Riverlands and tell everyone, like it should be as easy as going to Craig Stark or Jane Aaron and say, do I get the whole region?

But instead it's fractured. It's fractured as we saw with the Blackwoods and the Brackens. So it is like it's a region where you've got houses that have been fighting like the Hatfields and McCoy since the dawn of time. You've got a lord who's not really interesting. charge of the whole region, and then you've got a big, spooky, haunted castle that's largely empty. What was the city that De Nairos goes to where stuff happens, magic stuff happens? Carth?

Yeah. It kind of has some Carth vibes. A little bit, right? Well, House of the Undying. In terms of how surreal it is? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

The surreality is... I know it's not the same thing, but I thought for the show's purposes, like, all of it. sudden now it's like, there's nobody here and it's raining inside and now there's this woman who is Damon dreaming or is he having a vision? Because he's not asleep in, we can get to Damon's vision. But is there more I need to know about Heron Hall itself? Because obviously it's been burned to the ground. Yeah. Yep. Sort of. Well, yeah. It's still there. It's melted. It's a ruin. One more standing reminder of the history and whether we can heat it. It's ruined, but it does still have a massive curtain wall that like makes it impenetrable.

Sort of from the ground, but very vulnerable to the Air Force. Anyone who's at Heron Hall and sees Damon flying in on Caraxie, seeing a dragon coming down on a Herald Hall from above. It's going to take them back to Egon's conquest when Egon flew, Bilarion, the Black Dread, and melted the pyres. We get to hear actually, there are plenty of great quotes from fire and blood, but we actually got to hear Laris talk about this in season one in episode six when he's basically like, yeah, I burned my dad and my brother. Yeah. Don't worry, I'll be able to blame it on the curse. You've heard the stories of Harren Hall, Your Grace. It was built in hubris, there's that idea again, by Harron the Black, as a monument to his own greatness, blood mixed into the mortar.

It is said to be a cursed place, that it passes judgment on all who pass beneath its gates. So Haranel has this reputation across the realm as being a cursed, doomed, spooky, eerie fortress. and I think they captured that quite well. It is a crucial location in the history of the conquest, not only because that's what leads, you know, the Tullies, taking control of the region. The Targaryens and aligning with them and ultimately, like, Heron's line ending during the conquest.

You know, in the opening credits, when we see the crowned errands, the crowned Starks bending the knee, there's no crown on Edmund Tully's head because that's when the Tulles rose to power. Amund Targaryen in the wall of his room has a mural of the dragons torching Harenhal, and he's like, sick, bro, this is so sick. You've been talking about that, how, like, for Damon and Amon, they were both really focused

on this idea of not just the Riverlands, but Harenhal specifically as a towhold. And we hear, like, literally one of the reasons why in this exchange between Damon and Simon, just like, we got 40,000 folks in the Riverlands that we're trying to lock in here, and we need a place to garrison them. Now, season one viewers will remember that there's a similar reason behind Harenhall's location for the Great Council. So, it was really quick, but one of the moments I loved most in this episode, it gave me a chill when Damon is on his solo little, like, I'm checking around corners, I'm looking, okay, that's a raindrop, not a person, here's a dude, I'm knocking him out. I have claimed Harenhall. The woman, he's like, all right, no problem.

There's no poison in the piece. Sit down. I'm happy to chat. Happy to talk about how Grover can't seal his bowels. It's welcome. You're not hungry? No, no appetite. You're sure? When Damon looks down at the Great Hall, where the Great Council took place, you know he's thinking about that moment. Jaharis, the conciliator, gets multiple mentions in this episode. And that is the opening of the entire series for a reason, plot reasons, but also thematic reasons, right? The only thing that can tear

down the House of the Dragon is itself. And that is where Viseris was chosen over Renice. Like the themes that drive the series, the divisions, and fractures that drive the series, began in that room, in that place here inside of Heron Hall. It was a drier day that day that they did that. Can I shout out to you, Chris? Yes. Some of the towers in Heron Hall, just their names that set the mood for you, okay? We've got the Tower of Dred.

Okay. The Tower of Ghosts. Great branding, honestly. The Whaling Tower? The Widows Tower. Now, is that what the guy, was that what Bobby Heron was like, let's name it the Tower of Ghosts? Let's talk about the whaling tower. Why don't we call it like seaside fun time?

Yeah. Just over time. That's not the vibe we're going for. No. That's not the vibe we're going for at all. We're going for haunted. Okay. This is going to be like handed to Lord after.

Remember in a little television program called Gabe of Thrones? Janos Slint briefly gets hair and hall. Little finger gets her and whole. Like, her and all is this hot potato. And so to be here with the Strongs and see how that's true even again inside of a family, because Damon thinks he's going to have to make this big pitch to Simon, and Simon's like, fuck Laris Clubfoot. Have you noticed that the fire was super suspicious?

Are there like seven people there, though? Like, where is it? No, I think it's like 10. Okay. No. Simon and his grandsons and a new character. Let's talk about Damon's little reverie there. I would love to.

Watching it, I was like, this is awesome. Like, we're getting back into Brand Vision territory. I didn't go frame by frame or anything like that. But I was confused as to whether, and, like, delighted by the confusion of, like, he didn't wake up, right? Like, did I miss? He doesn't wake up and, like, was like, oh, that was a crazy dream, right? I think it's, like, a little unclear if he's sleeping that entire time or if he's actually, it seems to me like he's actually standing there in front of the were wood. Yeah, and, like, kind of doesn't know how he got there.

Exactly. That's pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah. This was great. Yeah. This was amazing. Do you think Bran was in the wherewood tree watching this?

I'm going to go. We mentioned a bunch of other new cast members. We should shout out Gail Rankin who plays Alice Rivers. She's amazing. I'm so happy she's there. She's lurking by on the dinner table and then she's the one who's out there in the garden and is like, you're going to die here. We're not going to get into how legitimate or likely her predictions are.

But I thought that that moment and the moment within this vision where he sees young, Nira, sewing Jeharis's head back on. Yeah, and tears in Damon's eyes as he's watching that. Yeah, but also fear. Of course. That's the thing that I thought was cool. It wasn't like, oh, I feel so bad about who I've become. It was like, fuck.

Always coming and going, aren't you? And I have to clean up that. But like both. It was like a real scared straight moment. Yeah. But like, not that that's... But it's not going to scare him straight. Not that that's all it's going to take for Damon, but it was a moment.

Let's talk a little bit about this thing. Like, the Wirward Tree is not in... Iron Hall and Game of Thrones, right? Is it? They have a godswood. They have a godswood. Yeah. So he's, right, he comes to, he's by the wherewood tree.

We kind of get, we get this nice cool shot that really positions us, the god's eye, the castle, the where Damon is. And this figure, who is there saying this thing to Damon, and that is Alice Rivers, just read you the introductory line from the book, which I think captures this thing that you're kind of alluding to, which is, wait, who is this person and what's going on? The castle small folk became as captives as well. Amongst them a wet nurse named Alice Rivers. Who was this woman?

A serving wench who dabbled in potions and spells, says Munkin. A woods witch claimed Septin Eustace. A malign enchantress who bathed in the blood of virgins to preserve her youth. Sign me up. Mushroom would have us believe. So, mysterious figure, age unknown, serving as a wet nurse, bastard, right? Rivers. And if you were like, what is Mal saying?

These are all the different accounts. All the different accounts. It's right there when we meet Alice. It's like, who is she? Well, that's the point, is that she's this figure who is shrouded in a mystery. In terms of what Damon sees, the thing that I was most struck by was what it means for Damon, a character who spends the, I would say, darkest moment for him of season one with apologies to everything to his first wife and everything that happened in the veil. the choking of Renera, the fight in the finale.

And the thing that he says to her, my brother was a slave to his omens in portents. Anything to make his feckless reign appear to have purpose. Dreams didn't make us kings dragons. That was in the very first division. That was the very first trailer line. It was like, Damon doesn't believe in dreams. Damon doesn't believe in your like mumbo-jumbo-jumbo hocus pocus.

This is a huge thing now for us to know that he has an experience with this. Okay. Will this change the way he thinks back on his relationship? with Viseris? Will this change the way that he assesses the decisions that Veseris made and what drove him? Okay, so I feel like we have to kind of put a pin in that because this is where like reading the text ahead of the show, it's like also, as we just saw in this episode, the show might take some liberties and the show might do some different things.

Absolutely. Just to kind of tie a bow on everything that we were just talking about. We've got Kristen marching towards Riverlands, towards Heron Hall. Through the Crownlands. Through the Crownlands. And he is being patrolled by Bela who has a... Moon Dancer.

No engagement clause in her... She went a little lower than Reneira told her to go. Much like young Reneira when she flew to Dragonstone against Viseris's orders. I don't think Baila is heeding the exact letter of the longer.

To the non-aggression pact that we've kind of talked about, Bail is just watching and Kristen didn't bring a dragon because Agon wanted to go. Oh, man. They stop him. I'm as fearsome as any of them.

The way that Egon said, I'm as fearsome as any of them, after what played to me as Amon goading him? Oh, yeah. Right? Bading him, like, incredibly. That is precisely why you must remain, brother. But also, it's a brave thought, but we cannot risk your loss. Everyone trying to work, Egon, who is the most fun to watch?

It's Laris. Laris manipulating Egon is just a master class. It's incredible. Also, just from that small council, I mean, really love Amon doing the Val Kilmer Dock Holiday coin. But what's he doing it with? He's doing it with the coin that he found when he returned to his bed chambers and realized they had come in through the secret passage and that Damon wanted to kill him. He's holding in his hand a reminder that Damon thinks he's a worthy foe. I wonder if that'll wind up battery.

Who could say? So to your point, like, yeah, Moonbeam sort of like buzzes the tower but doesn't like actually engage. cracks these lands but doesn't like on the top of Heron Hall but then they're just sort of like, sure, come on in. So we're not like dragons are not fighting dragons yet. Okay. But we're using dragons as a sort of menace, which is what Reneura said.

Like the threat of them will be as good as using them. And in some cases that might be true. And Kristen is on a bit of a heat check with a quickly assembled fighting force walking and riding towards this castle with no dragon and not really knowing what he's riding into. But he has, he has Freddie Fox there to talk shit to him.

Yeah, Gwynhontas there. And that's honestly all you need. Temperature changer. I love that guy so much. Here's the real tragedy. This could not have been a better debut. Here's the real tragedy of this episode. Kristen Cole gets to be right about something.

Yeah. When he's like no fucking ins, I was like, no! He was right. The imposter syndrome, before they head out, that like moment of real imposter syndrome that we get to glimpse with Kristen when he's like in his chambers alone. Like, all right. And the sound. I'm not sure.

I am ready to go in the game, and it's like, you're all fucking mad serrison. But also because he basically sent the corgill to his, Arick to his death. All of his boys are just like, we're not, like, first of all, AGO hired us. Second of all. Oh, my God. Dude. I've been calling them the pussy posse on our, on House of R. And so to watch them just sort of like laying around.

No, but like, even before that, when they're just like sitting on the stairs and they're like, oh, the Lord Commander's here. Or leaning inside the chamber and they're just like, who can't? Mr. The Purity and Fidelity of our white cloak having to look at the fact that his king put three of his bros into the Kingsguard without a conversation. That was incredible. You get support about majesty. Yeah, definitely. Great stuff.

Genuinely great. So that's kind of where all the royal and royal adjacent people are. Are we not going to talk about Egon finding Amund in the brothel? Hit me. Are we not? Let's do it. This was just riveting television. And obviously a number of respects.

The last, it feels now very important that when we saw Amund and Sylvie last episode, Amund was not just vulnerable, not just like telling her these things that he wouldn't say to anybody else, right? I feel good that Damon thinks I'm a worthy foe. I feel bad that I accidentally killed Luke. And then he stands up to try to be tough and brave and strong

and say, like, one horse is as good as any other. To, like, about the one person that he actually is willing to tell the truth to. Broke my heart. That was, like, it's really upsetting to have to confront. Because this gets to what you were saying earlier. Like, who did these characters think they have to be in front of other people? Sure. Right?

Heartbreaking. Absolutely heartbreaking. He's, like, he's, like, one safe harbor. Awful. Also, like, we do have to note because we talked about the, like, Mother's Milk thing last time. It did appear. Breast was out. Was he suckling?

I believe that he was suckling. I think we could just say that that's canon at this point. I think that there's still some people out there who may think that he was a bit high. I mean, like... There's one person, definitely, who thinks that. Everybody else thinks he's suckling from the teeth. If I can see that he drinks breast milk, will you never do the lips thing again? Don't ever do it?

Don't do it. Don't do what? Why didn't you... Why didn't you tempt that? But then, like, the other thing we heard last week from... This is a video pot. From Emmond. They used to tease me.

They used to tease me, you know, because I was different. Yeah, my heart gets out there. But, but, like, it's upsetting. No, because his own brother comes in and is just like a complete piece of shit to him. Oh, Agon's had a few pops, he can't really handle it. Yes, the king of the realm on the brink of a civil war is just out getting hammered at the pub with his buns. But buying drinks for everyone. On the crowd.

What a good guy. Maybe would you want to have a beer with this guy is criteria for King as well, you know? Great question. These are the important questions. But, like, we know what Amund did because he was upset at how Luke treated him. Because of the pink dread and the laugh at the pig and the table.

It just feels like they're sequencing these things this way for a reason, right? Do you think there was any symbolism to him just dropping trial and showing snake out there or what? Like, do you want to talk about? Well, you tell me. I mean, like, he, I think is, I think he's, like, weirdly, like, I know what I can do.

And he's just like, you know, like. He's a lean, like a lean, mean fighting machine. Like, this guy is just, like, muscle all the way. And what was Agon doing before? Right. Hiding in a family member's armor and being told with a tough guy he was. The conquer. And standing, and standing on a box.

Right. And he's like, look how tall and threatening I am. And Amy's just like, I don't need armor. Yeah. I don't need her. Absolutely. And I don't need you. So that was what that meant for me.

Yeah. So those are all the royals, royal adjacents, hands of kings, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah. Now we know where they all are. But. Yeah. There was another crucial scene, so before we go, I thought we could talk a little bit about Ulf.

Yes, my guy. It's great. It's all starting to come together a little bit. I think if you were just like, I've dropped myself into this world just through the show and you're watching, and then the second season starts, and there's Adam and Alan and Ulf, and we're spending time with this blacksmith for some reason.

And some of the small folk, but I don't think this show has enough time or interest in being like, oh, here's a random character, but they have nothing to do with anything. So as we go along, these minor characters are being introduced, but they are not minor. So we get at least by Ulf's own account, he's like, I'm actually, I'm John Snowop in this piece, right? Like, maybe not that important, but like I'm a targary. Maybe Gendry level. But this is hugely important for this show because if that's true, like he could ride a dragon, right?

Let's talk about the dragon seeds. Okay. This is the word he used. He says a dragon seed must watch his neck when he has no white-clothed guardsmen to do it for him. This is a slight... The dragon seed, as it's considered at least a little earlier in the history, is an honor.

There is the idea of the prima nocta, which I learned from Braveheart, the first night, right? Like, your Targaryen lord, your Targaryen king can have sex with your wife before you do, and that's what an honor. Yes. Right?

And the issue... of that coupling could be a Targaryian bastard and they're called the Dragon Seas. And the fire of the blood of the dragon flows in their veins and that's a big deal and so they are treated at least in like Jeharis's reign

with respect because the Targaryians are considered closer to God so if you've got godly blood in your veins even if you are a bastard you are above hunting for pints. Yeah you're above everyone the founder of House Brathian and like

Egon's main dude. Yeah. Earlier Egon, the conquer, Dragon Seed. Okay. So what can they do? Like, how Targaryen are they? That's a question. Okay. That's a question that we don't know the answer to. And, like, you know, you...

This character, Ulf, is known as Ulf the Saut, but also Ulf the white because of his hair. But what I love in this is like... It's not that white. But it's ironic. They're like, they're making fun of his hair. They're like, oh, sure, your hair is so silver. Yeah.

So Targaryen. So, like, is he actually a Targaryen? How Targaryen is he? That's, like, a real question. But I just love, I love meeting him here because we know so little about Ulf in the book. And so something that they're doing with a lot of these side characters. And we've mentioned this before. Is this, like, really investing in them.

Yeah. And really, like, giving us a portrait. Tom Bennett is so funny when he walks into the tavern and they're like, way, it's like, cheers. Yeah, everyone's just like, everyone's like, a little else. Oh, it's actually her sister. Yeah. Probably should have told me.

You know, like all that sort of stuff. Like, that's wonderful. And then he's like pro-Rinera. And he's like pro-Jase. And he seems to like have an actual- No, no, no. Seems to have an actual spine. And then as soon as Agan walks in, he's like, all hail the king.

So like, this is my guy. This is my guy. This was a great scene. I thought the specificity of his, like, drunken boast was really notable. Like he's not just there, gathered around the table, excited to try to convince people that he's a Targaryan bastard. He's like, I am the bastard of bail on. the brave. That was like, he could have picked anyone, but he didn't. He picked a beloved figure

from Targaryen history. A hand of the king, the spring prince. That's as, I mean, he says, like, because he mentions Vassarison and Damon. That's their dad. That's Vassaritan's dad. He used to, he was Vagar's writer. Like, this is a consequence. We actually heard Vassarson Otto talk about him in season one in the first firing, right? Because that's who, that's who Otto had to come in and replace. He died of the first belly on the hunt. And so he was, he was. He's like trying to invoke a more particular lineage. Like I am the offspring of somebody who people adore. That struck me as very notable.

The last thing I want to say in the Ulf front, and then we can roll along for my guy Elf, who will be my favorite character going forward, take a seat, Laris, is... I think we both know what's gonna be Gawain. Gawain can be yours, Ulf can be mine. There's something for everyone. I love how quickly he was able to find a way into this.

He's like, oh, you're Dornish. Hmm, my people never settled there. Like, you could say anything to this guy. And he's like, guess how I can make this about me and how I'm actually a targeting? You're here they mourned my grandson. I like that. Is there anything else from this episode?

I mean, there's so much, obviously. We'll have House of Our longest episode ever possibly. I wouldn't totally rule it out. We hit a lot of it. I think we should very quickly talk about that lovely Rainies and Corlis picnic lunch, the warm bread and the hot broth. If anybody's like what was Chris talking about earlier when you... Yeah.

So that is my example, which is... It's the choice of, like, where to put it. Yeah. Every other one of their scenes is not bad, but, like, and the bed seam is fun or whatever, but, like, a lot of... I have walked into this room. It's a lot of throwing and live. And I'm talking to you.

And we're talking and now, okay, goodbye. That looked like a married couple. Yeah. That looked like a couple who would actually, like, spend some time together. A little, like, feeding of the crumb and the dressing of the hair. She's got so her shoes don't get muddy. He's, like, I'm, like, 75% engaged in this conversation, because what I really want to do is get back to, like, my masculinity.

I got barnacles of scrap. Yeah. And she's just, like, you need to think about inheritance. You need to think about. Which was all he used to think about it. Right. And he's like, no, no, no. Like, it's not going to be.

Like, Joff, no. No. And so he's probably also in the back of his head, maybe thinking about other people. We don't know yet. But, like, I just thought that was like a really lovely scene and beautifully staged. It was great.

On the Jof front, I thought the goodbye to the kids Like the way that they shot that where, like, Jaff's little hand comes around and, like, you like, see her, I mean, it was just... Got a minute, I didn't really know who those... Like, I was just like... Jof? Yeah.

Egon? Yeah. Vesera. Yes, I regret to tell you, another egg on. Another person is... The blonde babies are her babies with Damon, and then Jophe is like the third, the youngest that she had with Harwin. So those are all her children.

Alleged. And she's like... No, Harwin is the actual father. Lainor was... And she was like, I love when she's like, Raina, I need you to do this. Be the mother that I can't be. It's going to really bum me out to send my sons away.

I would have loved for her to say, and I'll miss you too, Raina, my stepdaughter. Raina was, when Raina said, wait, sorry, the veil. And then, well, you want me to write to Prince Reggio? Pentos, where my mother died. Yeah. That's what you want me to do. That was, because it's an episode where we are praising or Nira a lot for doing things that people are unwilling to do and having like a level of mercy.

And that was interesting too, because Masaria invokes her mercy, and Renera almost was like, but that doesn't mean you can get one over on me. That makes me playable. Yeah, that was really interesting. I think on the kids' front, I was struck. Jace does not have a lot of screen time in this episode, but he was pissed. And that felt like really notable. When they're standing over, Aric and Eric, let's just say their names more.

Oh, and he's like, these guys are scumbags. Well, he's like Aric. Reneera says, I cannot fault him for keeping. his oath. And he's like, what of those who sent him? Yeah. Like when we talk about this kind of like hot blood, which was another big talking point across the episode and has been a theme, Jace is now a part of that. So that was really, that was interesting as well. Let's wrap it up there. This was an amazing episode of TV. I'm really glad we got to talk about it. You can listen to House of R on Tuesday or Wednesday? Wednesday?

Late Tuesday. Late Tuesday, breaking down the episode in fine detail. It depends of potting in like past midnight you know we'll see we'll probably talk about it on the watch a little bit make sure you're subscribed to house of r on spotify or wherever you get your podcasts and the watch wherever you get your podcast and you can obviously check us out here on the ringerverse youtube channel please hit like and subscribe it helps thanks to everybody for joining us we'll be back next sunday with another episode